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agent371 · 3 months

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This post is talking about the designs (and the designs only, I haven't read anything from the authors and dont even know who they are so this is design based only) released for the new Damian Wayne comic - The Boy Wonder. I will be heavily critical and btching about these, but please tell me your thoughts as well. After Damian, the others are under the cut. Please read because it's important.

Damian's design is actually really good and the best one, which is probably good since this is a comic about him. And I love how he's not whitewashed, which is something that happens way too much in comics.

Now, to Nightwing, his design is okay for a Nightwing design, but he just looks off in this style. I think if they tried to stylise him more, it could look a lot cooler. So I think he's just got wasted potential. Also, he's probably whitewashed as well to make damian more special as the "only" POC in the family (probly why Cass, Duke, Luke, and Luicus aren't here as well).

Babs is next, and this is the main reason I made this post. They abled her. DC authors stop abling disabled characters, please, for the love of me, I can't stand it. She can be disabled and still be relevant in the plot. I swear the only reason authors do this is because they don't know how to write disabled characters. If they need a Batgirl, use Steph or Cass because they are more than capable of doing it. I know they aren't as iconic as Babs, but move on DC. She's so much more interesting as Oracle.

Batman, I'm not a fan of his big blocky design. I just don't like it. He also looks really irrelevant and giving this is a comic about Robin (his son!) I think he should be relevant or look like he isn't a background character who just grunts, like for the design it looks like he doesn't talk. Don't like it.

Jason now, I actually love his Red Hood costume it looks sick, and the R on the chest *chefs kiss*. But his robin outfit is too gritty, and from that, I can tell he's going to be mischaracterised as the "angry Robin," so Hood looks cool, but that's all it is, his looks.

Tim. There is so much to say, omg. Where is his hero outfit! Everyone else got them. Why didn't he? You can actually see RR in the preview, so why wasn't that design put here? Why is it just Tim? And why does kid Tim look homless you know he grew up rich, before and after his adoption sure he has a style but his cloths wouldn't be friad he'd still look sleek and scruff not on the verge of his cloths falling off his back. For this, I can tell he'll also be mischaracterised as just like Jason since this is a Damian comic they are doing to do him so dirty. :( Sad day for a 90's Tim Drake fan (like every day, tbh save my guy). His RR design also has a shitty mask, but other than that, it seems fine, I like the wings/cape for it that looks pretty cool.

Alfred is a stereotypical old man. He's got no individuality what so ever and will proble be in one panel, say something sarcastic, and never show up again.

Ra's is okay. That's all.

Talia doesn't even look like herself . If you showed me her design with no context, I would not know who she is.

Carrie. Why is she here? Like honestly, why? There are better characters to include in a comic like this, like Steph or Cass or Duke or Helana. They would all be better chooses than Carrie. I'm not the biggest Damian fan, but ofter, Damian fans have been wanting him and Huntress as in a comic for a bit. I do like her design, but I just don't get why she's here. (I'm not including her image because of the limit bit is on my previous repost)

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photosoft0ys · 2 months

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The Dark Knight Returns

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gothamcity-official · 6 months

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I think the ginger girl Robin (the Robin, not the batgirl) broke my window. She left a note and there was a ginger lock of hair (I tossed it in the fire, no cloning batkids around here). I don’t know if this is report worthy, but I thought it was weird. My friends keeping telling me it’s normal though. Is the vigilantes breaking windows normal?!

The Colony breaking windows is normal. Typically one of the older Bats or Birds will follow up later with enough cash to replace the window and some extra.

Ginger Robin isn't seen very often, so it's nice to have reports on her.

-Mod Maxi

#only in gotham #only in gotham rp #onlyingotham #Ginger Robin #Mod Maxi (OC)#op #dc #in character #asks #carrie kelley #I don't actually know much about Carrie so I was gonna hold off until I actually knew more

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booasaur · 10 months

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Gotham Knights - 1x13

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wesavegotham · 10 months

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Sometimes you just look at something and it gets worse with every second you think about it.

#Why does everyone have their real names except Bruce #Why do they have that weird + and = thing for Damian #Why is Damian's picture from Dceased where he's 17/18 and Batman #Why does it list Duke and Stephanie as adopted by Bruce when they never were #Why is Carrie Kelley included here #I don't recall Bruce adopting her and she's from a completely different universe #Why doesn't it include Talia's parents #Where is Kate Kane #If we include Elseworlds (like Carrie) why are characters like Helena Wayne missing #Does this imply Steph Tim and Cass are all siblings?#The shippers are going to be mad #It just gets worse and worse #Who made this

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acmeoop · 1 year

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Carrie Kelley/Robin Character Design (1985)

#80s #dc comics #production art #character design #robin #carrie kelley #frank miller #Batman #the dark knight returns #artwork

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wings-of-angels · 6 months

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Cant believe people hate carrie kelley,, like do u also hate fun and whimsy ??

#APPARENTLY EVERYONE ON TIKTOK HATES HER ????#LIKE.. i understand hating frank miller like i am no 1 frank miller HATER #but carrie?? my girly??? shes just a girl :(( 💞💞💞💞💞#LIKE WHAT DID SHE DO TO THEM #obviously people can dislike characters but i feel like its just the fandom not knowing much about her so collectively disliking her #cos they dont know her #Carrie Kelley i am ur number one fan for ever and ever #this was in my drafts for a few weeks

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denniskdraws · 1 year

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Superman GA: Flamebird

#flamebird #carrie kelley #batman #dc comics #dcu #character design #fanart

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carriekellyofficial · 1 year

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#tesla #musk #dc #batman #comics #robin #carrie kelley #dc robin #batgirl #robin dc #in character #shit posting #my dad may be rich but we can still all hate billionaires trying to reinvent the bus #public transport makes using the batmobile safer and easier #therefore saving lives

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nefarious-616-necromancer · 5 months

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yeahyeahbeebisii · 2 years

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btw if you sexualize Carrie Kelley I'm killing you with an axe. Not only is she one of the only female characters in that god forsaken franchise who isn't already very sexualized, she is like fifteen. Die.

#carrie kelley #and yes there's an obvious problem that the only female character who isn't sexualized is a child #and any adult is #but I'm not talking about that here

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shysquidd · 2 years

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me talking about carrie kelley in the gotham knights tags to people who only care abt misha collins

#cw gotham knights #not me about to give this show a chance for one character and one character only #carrie kelley i love u #that turner dude stole your place

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mysterycitrus · 3 months

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characters to put in a damian wayne book to add complexity and emotional depth:

- helena bertinelli

- talia al ghul

- jean paul valley

- stephanie brown

- cassandra cain

- maya ducard

the characters we keep getting:

- jason todd

- tim drake

- barbara gordon

- carrie kelley???

#WHY. WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY #damian Wayne #dc comics #spokes

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thekillingvote · 8 months

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No Birds Allowed: Batman without Robin

The usual claim is that Jason Todd was singularly hated by audiences. Dick Grayson, Carrie Kelley, and Tim Drake are proper, beloved Robins—and Jason Todd is the one and only outlier so unlikable that audiences killed him off by popular vote.

But this claim ignores a massive piece of the puzzle—the Robin role has long been treated as an outdated remnant of a childish era, not only by a significant share of Batman fans, but also by Batman creative teams. While there were definitely fans who hated Jason Todd, he was at least partly chosen to be killed as a scapegoat for some long-standing complaints about the Robin role in Batman stories.

The 1988 poll to kill Jason Todd wasn't just a poll to kill Jason Todd—the poll to kill Robin was a poll to kill Robin.

Fan letters columns from Batman #221 and Detective Comics #398, reacting to Dick leaving for Hudson University in Batman #217 (1969):

Denny O'Neil Batman/Detective Comics writer (1970-1980) Batman group editor (1986-2000) on sending Robin away to Hudson University:

Dan Greenfield: Actually, last night I went back through my comics and the one thing that always strikes me is that before you came onto the character, they’d already made the decision to have Robin leave. Robin was up at Hudson University and was used sparingly from that point forward. Denny O’Neil: Well, that was a conscious decision of mine. Greenfield: Oh! O’Neil: Yeah, I mean … I had been offered Batman a year before I did it. Greenfield: No kidding? I wanna hear this. O’Neil: Because that was in the (Batman TV show) camp thing. The comics were very half-heartedly following in the footsteps of the camp because it was having a palpable effect on circulation. That’s not always true but it was in that case. Camp as in the sense — as opposed to the more erudite sense — this one-line joke about: “I loved this stuff when I was 6 and now that I’m 28 and I have a bi-weekly appointment with a therapist and a little, mild drug habit and two divorces, ‘Look how silly it is.'” I would go into the most literary bar in Greenwich Village on (Wednesday) or Thursday evenings and there would be writers and poets and college professors, all looking at Batman! But when that was over, it was over. It was like somebody turned a switch. And that’s when (editor) Julie (Schwartz) said, in his avuncular way, did I have any ideas for Batman? And at that point, I wasn’t going to be asked to do camp. I was going to be asked to do anything within the bounds of good taste, etc., that I wanted to.

O'Neil, quoted from “Notes from the Batcave: An Interview with Dennis O’Neil” in The Many Lives of The Batman: Critical Approaches to a Superhero and His Media:

There was a time right before I took over as Batman editor when he seemed to be much closer to a family man, much closer to a nice guy. He seemed to have a love life and he seemed to be very paternal towards Robin. My version is a lot nastier than that. He has a lot more edge to him.

O'Neil in 2015:

Modern Batman does not do camp. He has to evolve but to stay true to the concept he has to stay lonely. The kids, there shouldn't be many. Keep him the lone, obsessed crusader and the stories will be better. We did a story called Son of the Demon. It told a story where he had a kid, a baby. It wasn't in continuity. These days, the kid came back and became the new Robin, and I hear that Batman's got a few more running around.

Jim Starlin, Batman writer (1987-1988), writer of A Death in the Family:

I tried to avoid using [Robin] as much as I could. In most of my early Batman stories, he doesn’t appear. Eventually Denny asked me to do a specific Robin story, which I did, and I guess it went over fairly well from what I understand. But I wasn’t crazy about Robin.

I thought that going out and fighting crime in a grey and black outfit while you send out a kid in primary colors was kind of like child abuse. So when I started working on Batman, I was always leaving Robin out of the stories, and Denny O’Neil who is the editor finally said, "You gotta put [Robin] in."

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In the one Batman issue I wrote with Robin featured, I had him do something underhanded, as I recall. Denny had told me that the character was very unpopular with fans, so I decided to play on that dislike. [...] At that time, DC had this idea that they were gonna do an AIDS education book, and so they put a box out and wanted everybody to put in suggestions of who should contract AIDS and perish in the comics. I stuffed it with Robin. They realized it was all my handwriting so they ended up throwing all my things out. About six months later, Denny came up with this idea of the call-in thing. [...] I didn’t find out about it until I came back [from Mexico] and found out that, just as I expected, my ghoulish little fans voted him dead. But by a much smaller margin than I’d imagined. It was only like 72 votes out of 10,000, so statistically it was next to nothing.

Dan Raspler, assistant editor/associate editor to Denny O’Neil (1988-1990):

Denny wasn’t really interested in comics continuity, and he didn’t like superheroes. And if you read his work, you see his influence was really a pushing away from the conventions at the time—it was growing old, that sort of Golden Age-y, Silver Age-y stuff, and Denny sort of modernized it, and he never stopped feeling that way. Jim Starlin’s Batman appealed to Denny. It was a little more ‘down to Earth. Nobody liked Robin at the time. For a while Robin was not—it didn’t make sense in comics. Comics were darkening, and so having the kid was just, it was silly, and even at the time I kind of didn’t. Now Robin is my favorite all-time character, but at the time when I was twenty-whatever, I accepted kicking Robin out, the short pants and all the rest of it.

Comic shop owner Phil Beracha on A Death in the Family, quoted in The Sun Sentinel (October 22, 1988):

"I got 100 copies, and I don't expect them to last past the weekend," said Phil Beracha, owner of Phil's Comic Shoppe in Margate. "I usually get 50 copies of Batman. I doubled my order, and I still expect to sell out." The readers voted right, Beracha said. "Robin is an outdated concept. He was created in the `40s, and back then in a comic book you could have a kid beating up grown men. I don't think that works today."

Writer Steve Englehart, quoted in "Batman, the Gamble; Warner Bros. is betting big money that a 50-year-old comic book vigilante will be a `hero for our times'" in the Los Angeles Times (June 18, 1989):

Writer Steven Englehart, who did a series of Batman stories in Detective Comics, also worked up some movie treatments. In a letter to Comics Buyer's Guide, he revealed the approach he had in mind, which would have pleased Batfanatics: "My first treatment had Robin getting blown away in the first 90 seconds, so that every reviewer in the country would begin his review with, `This sure isn't the TV show.' "

Michael Uslan, producer and film rights holder for the 1989 Batman film:

I only let Tim [Burton] see the original year of the Bob Kane/Bill Finger run, up until the time that Robin was introduced. I showed him the Steve Englehart/Marshall Rogers and the Neal Adams/Denny O'Neil stories. My biggest fear was that somehow Tim would get hold of the campiest Batman comics and then where would we be?

"Death Knell for the Campy Crusader" in the Orlando Sentinel (23 June 1989):

For most people, the name Batman summons up a picture of a clown in long johns, a Campy Crusader who - with the young punster Robin - ZAPed and POWed his way into our lives. That's the Batman that appeared on TV in the mid-'60s, and that's the Batman that the world at large knows. Such is the power of television. But this ludicrous image may become obsolete now that the new, $40 million Batman movie has opened. Robin is absent from the film, as are the perky Batgirl and the utterly superfluous Aunt Harriet of the TV series. And though the movie has plenty of sound effects, they don't appear on the screen as words, spelled out in neo-Brechtian absurdity.

Sam Hamm, writer for Batman (1989 live-action film):

The Case of the Disappearing Robin is high comedy. Tim (Burton) and I had worked out a plotline that did not include the Boy Wonder, whom we both regarded as an unnecessary intrusion. Really: Our hero was crazy to begin with. Did he have to prove it by enlisting a pimply adolescent to help him fight crime? Was Bat-Baby unavailable? But the studio was insistent: There was no such thing as solo Batman, there was only Batman and Robin. So, after holding off the executives for as long as we could, Tim and I realized we had better try to accommodate them. He flew up to my house in San Francisco and we walked around in circles for two days, finally deciding that there was no way to shoehorn Robin into our story. [...] We figured that if we managed to squeeze him in, the lame hacks who were making the sequel could worry about what to do with him next. When the film went into production in London, and ran seriously over budget, WB started looking for a sequence that could be cut to save money. And there was one obvious candidate: Intro Robin! So Robin was cut from the movie and shoved back to Batman Returns— from which he was cut yet again and shoved back to Batman Forever.

Grant Morrison on creating Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth (written 1987-1988, published 1989) with Dave McKean (see the annotated script's fourth page):

The original first draft of the script included Robin. Robin appeared in a few scenes at the beginning then remained at Police Headquarters for the bulk of the book, where he spent his time studying plans and histories of the house, in order to find a way in to help his mentor. Dave McKean, however, felt that he had already compromised his artistic integrity sufficiently by drawing Batman and refused point blank over for the Boy Wonder — so after one brave but ridiculous attempt to put him in a trench coat, I wisely removed him from the script.

Paul Dini on Batman: The Animated Series (1992), as told in the 1998 book Batman Animated:

The Fox Network, on the assumption that kids won't watch a kid’s show unless kids are in it, soon began insisting that Robin be prominently featured in every episode. When Fox changed the title from Batman: The Animated Series to The Adventures of Batman & Robin, they laid down the law-no story premise was to be considered unless it was either a Robin story or one in which the Boy Wonder played a key role. Out were underworld character studies like “It's Never Too Late"; in were traditional Batman and Robin escapades like “The Lion and the Unicorn.” A potentially intriguing Catwoman/Black Canary team-up was interrupted in midpitch to the network by their demand, “Where's Robin?” When the writers asked if they could omit Robin from just this one episode, Fox obliged by omitting the entire story. Looking back, there was nothing drastically wrong with Robin's full-time insertion into the series—after all, kids do love him. Our major gripe at the time was that it started turning the series into the predictable Batman and Robin show people had initially expected it would be. For the first season, Batman had been an experiment we weren't sure would work. We were trying out different ways of telling all kinds of stories with Batman as our only constant. For better or worse, having a kid forced him, and the series, to settle down.

Christian Bale, star of Christopher Nolan's The Dark Knight trilogy (2008):

If Robin crops up in one of the new Batman films, I'll be chaining myself up somewhere and refusing to go to work.

Summed up

Among the keepers of Batman, there has been a vocal contingent arguing against the inclusion of Robin. They argue that Robin damages Batman's brooding, solitary persona. They argue that the concept of Robin is too ridiculous and fantastic for the grounded, gritty ideal of Batman. They argue that a respectable version of Batman shouldn't allow, encourage, or train "child soldiers" to endanger their lives fighting against violent evil-doers.

The original and most iconic Robin, Dick Grayson, has definitely benefited from his deep roots in DC lore and his consistent popularity among fans—and yet even he has been shunned from various Batman projects over the decades. When even he struggles to get his foot in the door, his successors face stiffer opposition.

So it's not quite correct to say that Jim Starlin hated Jason Todd. In his own words, Starlin wasn't fond of Robin, and his storytelling (most obviously A Death in the Family) set out to argue against Batman having any kind of "partner" at all. This, following the wildly successful comic that treated Barbara Gordon as a disposable prop. A growing audience welcomed the Dark Age, and the gruesome spectacles made of kid-friendly elements like Batgirl and Robin.

This trend could be broken by the upcoming sequel to The Batman and by the planned slate of upcoming DCU films. But most Robin fans will tell you that many movie-going Batman fans still have their doubts about Robin sharing Batman's spotlight.

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punkeropercyjackson · 3 months

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