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celaenaeiln · 8 months

Note

Hi it’s me again, the anon who asked about the Joker hating Dick. Back with two more things, sorry. First is Dick being the hardest bat for Cass to read, is that canon or fanon? Another is Dick, Cass, and Bruce being the only bats (heroes?) able to beat Jason in a fight, where is that from?

Sorry for the lengthy ask and I hope you’re having a wonderful day 💕

Hey again (＾▽＾)!! Not at all and thanks <3

Dick is just a hard person in general to read for anyone.

Titans (2016) Issue #11

And this is coming from a mind reader and empath.

But in terms of Cass, I think it may be because he's the only one whom she can't tell what he's thinking without him saying something. For example with Tim,

Batgirl (2000) Issue #59

Even though they're just sitting there silently, Cass can identify every emotion that Tim's emoting without him saying a word. However with Dick, she only learns about him by watching his interactions with other people.

Nightwing (1996) Issue #81

She can still read his fighting movements but she doesn't have the same level of emotional understanding of him through body language that she has on everyone else. I guess it comes with him being a born performer. It's like her trying to read Alfred given that Alfred and Dick both understand and bond with each other over their acting abilities.

Another thing about Dick and Cass is that Dick is able to read Cass as easily as Cass is able to read other people.

In fighting, just like she can easily see his form

Batman and Robin Eternal Issue #1

Dick can see hers too

Batman and Robin Eternal Issue #1

He's able to identify her weakness and analyze her fighting technique just like she's able to do his. Although Cass wins because she's always quicker on the draw than everyone. It comes with her almost meta-like ability to identify weak points in someone's body language.

So that's canon for emotional understanding I think but unless I have the direct canon panel I can't say for sure.

Dick, Cass, and Bruce being the only ones of the bats to defeat Jason is canon.

Dick beat Jason even after being electrocuted, tranquilized, hit with fear toxin, and blown up in the Battle for the Cowl

Batman: Battle for the Cowl Issue #3

Yet even after all this he still wins. He accidentally uses too much strength though and knocks Jason off the ledge

Batman: Battle for the Cowl Issue #3

Dick is always controlling his power. He's careful in the way he fights and goes easy on everyone especially if they're his friends of allies (evidenced in Vigilante comic), but when he loses that carefully maintained control, he always wins. There are other instances where Dick wins too but to give one that evens the playing field (where neither holds back), Battle for the Cowl is the best example.

This idea of holding back ties into Bruce too. Bruce doesn't restrain himself nearly half as much as Dick does but he does it too. When he doesn't hold back against Jason, he wins

Batman: Under the Red Hood Issue #13

Cass beats everyone, there's no question but here's the evidence anyway:

Batman and Robin Eternal Issue #3

Even as he's saying this, Cass has already identified all of Jason's weak points

Batman and Robin Eternal Issue #3

People sometimes use the following scene to say Jason can beat Cass but c'mon. It says right there he caught her by surprise and she wasn't seriously fighting.

Batman and Robin Eternal Issue #3

But Jason can beat Tim, Duke, and Damian canonically.

Here he beats Tim when Tim decides to dress up as Batman.

Batman: Battle for the Cowl Issue #2

It's kind of a one-sided fight. He also beats Tim when Tim is Robin but it's a little unfair to use that given than Jason is a trained adult and Tim is sort of just starting out. Also to be fair to Tim, Jason catches him by surprise and hiding but overall I'd say Jason still wins.

He also beats Damian in a fight rather easily

Teen Titans (2016) Annual #1

He also beats him in Batman and Robin and in Batman (2016)

Batman and Robin (2009) Issue #5

Although Damian has beaten Jason a few time in a no holds barred fight. I guess it just depends on how much they feel like fighting and who's writing. I can't tell with these two but I believe Jason would win eventually.

He can beat Duke too

New Talent Showcase 2017

He does it so easily.

I can't remember him fighting Stephanie so I'll leave her out. In terms of fighting ability in the batfam, I'd say Jason's solidly in the middle. Still a strong fighter though.

#dick grayson #nightwing #tim drake #red robin #cassandra cain #black bat #orphan #jason todd #red hood #bruce wayne #batman #damian wayne #robin #duke thomas #dc signal #cl anon asks #thanks for the ask!

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evilwickedme · 5 months

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hey it’s me from the Batman posts! (the one that left the tags abt wanting to get into Batman but having no clue where to start)

If its not too much trouble, I’d love any advice on where to start with Batman or Batfam(?) stuff, I saw someone suggest reading the Batman: Wayne Family Adventures thing on webtoon as an intro to the characters so I’ve been doing that, but I’ve got no clue about any of the official comics or shows/movies/etc. I’ve never read a comic series before so everything is super new to me.

I know different series(?)/versions(?) can be wildly different bc of different writers and stuff, I definitely trust your taste on what would be good / enjoyable bc the posts you’ve been reblogging are like 90% of whats gotten me interested in the first place

Thank you, and absolutely no rush!!

Hey I am legit SO happy that you sent me this ask this is literally my favorite thing to do!!!!

So to start with I do actually agree that wfa is a good starting point but for a different reason than I feel most people would recommend it. The thing about wfa is that it has a consistent design for every character, is humorous, touches not only on the main batfamily members but also many extended members, other noteworthy people in Gotham, and the batfamily's cast of friends and teammates as well. This means that while its approach to characterization is incredibly fanon-y, it's a good basis for how to continue. You read wfa, and you know that Dick is the first robin, wears ridiculous costumes, was batman for a bit, is nightwing, part of the teen titans... this isn't a lot, but it's just enough to orient yourself before jumping into some of the most convoluted art ever created, aka the comic world.

Another tip I'm gonna give you is to let yourself be confused. I think the people who end up sticking with comics are people who are aware that if they pick up a comic it's very likely the writers and artists have read and worked on comics that you haven't read yet or even heard of, so you're always going to be missing something. That's fine. If something is really important to the plot, it gets explained; if it's not, it's windowdressing. Often there'll be little boxes saying what comic and issue they're referencing, so if you find it interesting you can just go read it - otherwise, if it's not there, you can google it, or go to any comic fan and ask "hey do you know what this is about?" and if they know, they will answer. There is nothing a comic fan wants more than to explain how to get into their favorite character/s, trust me.

Anyway this has been a very wordy intro but here are some potential starting points for the batfamily!

Bruce Wayne

You know who he is. Pick up an issue of Batman or Detective Comics and he's there. Pick up an issue of any other DC comic and there's like a 30% chance he's there too.

Batman: The Long Halloween

Noir style, investigative, early in batman's career, two face's origin story

It has a sequel-ish story called Batman: Dark Victory that's almost as good

Batman: Hush

Batman: Year One

Frankly there's not going to be much information in this comic you don't already know, but also, it's a classic, so might as well

Batman: A Death in the Family & Batman: A Lonely Place of Dying (crossover with the new teen titans)

First story is Jason's death, second is Tim's introduction and arguably the start of the batfamily being a family

Tim drags Dick back into the fray in ALPOD. It's just sort of the kind of thing he does

Do NOT confuse A Death in the Family with Death OF the Family, which is a much newer story, and Not Good

Batman: Under the Red Hood

Jason's villain arc! More details below

Batman himself isn't actually my favorite but you know he's got some decent stuff since he's, uh, the main character. DC doesn't have a multiverse the way Marvel does - and getting into that would be a whole separate ask - but their elseworlds are stories about the characters in different situations. Some ones I've heard good things about include Gotham by Gaslight, Dark Knights of Steel, Batman: Last Knight on Earth, and I keep meaning to get into Batman: White Knight, which is a whole other universe on its own. I've been trying to get into more modern batman stuff and unfortunately I just haven't clicked with anything.

Dick Grayson

Guy has been in a lot of things. If you read a random Batman comics from before 1980, there's a good chance he'll be there.

Teen Titans and The New Teen Titans and Titans (1980s-2000s)

I haven't read enough of these to say much of anything, but he's a founding member of the TT

Nightwing

His post-Robin superhero identity. At first only present in NTT and occasional Batman comics, but eventually he gets his own miniseries in the early 90s, followed by an ongoing. Recently-ish started reading them and they're angsty and very 90s in a lot of ways but I'm enjoying it

Modern Nightwing titles also exist. For sure.

Batman & Robin by Morrison

In one of DC's ten million crises, Bruce "dies", and after a short story called Battle for the Cowl, Dick ends up becoming Batman. Damian is his Robin. It's an interesting time for batman comics, although not necessarily the best writing that Dick has ever gotten.

Batman: The Dark Mirror

Also a great story for the Gordons. Bruce is back from the dead, but Dick is still Batman in Gotham. This was my first even Batman comic and it's really good.

Obviously there's other stories, such as Grayson, where he becomes a super spy for a bit. There's a million and a half reading lists for Dick out there as he's a massively popular character and he's one of the characters DC is pushing the most right now. As with all the rest of these, these are good entry points; from there I trust you to find your way

Barbara Gordon

The original Batgirl, sort of (nobody really brings up bette kane unless they're pointing out that babs wasn't the original Batgirl, she's just not important). She appears sporadically in silver and bronze age batman comics and detective comics, but she quits being Batgirl shortly before being raped and shot in the spine by the joker in Batman: the Killing Joke, which I purposefully did not put on my rec list.

Birds of Prey

Babs-as-Oracle at her best.

Batman: The Dark Mirror

Babs' long lost brother comes back to town. It's fucked up.

I've been reliably told to stay away from her Batgirl runs - most people who are a fan of the character don't like that they retconned Oracle away and it's mostly not very well written. There's a comic called batgirls that lasted about a year that included her, and it's okay.

Jason Todd (my beloved)

MY MAN

Batman: Second Chances

Collected edition of Jason as Robin, so much fun. Extremely silly at times since it's the 80s.

Batman: A Death in the Family

For obvious reasons.

Then he's just sort of dead for 17 years. He shows up in heaven in a Green Arrow issue and is occasionally brought up or shown as a hallucination, but that's about it.

Batman: Under the Red Hood

There's a new crime lord in town and he's so smart and talented and hot omg I wonder who he is!!!!

The collected edition also comes with the annual that reveals how he came back to life

Task Force Z

This shouldn't be as good as it is.

Jason gets recruited to work with a team of undead villains

Jason gets called a hot a bunch of times, and is shirtless a lot. This doesn't matter but you know, like, yeah it does.

For Robin!Jason there's also Batman: The Cult - which I finally got my hands on recently but haven't read yet. For Red Hood!Jason there's lots of stuff, but most of it isn't very good or is actively bad. Most people will tell you to stay away from Red Hood and the Outlaws, and they're right, although the 2016 run is better. Most people will tell you to read Batman & Red Hood: Cheer, and they're wrong, it's ass.

Tim Drake

Frankly this boy has no flops. Or very close to it.

Batman: A Lonely Place of Dying

Tim figured out who Batman and Robin are at AGE NINE. Respect.

After this he appears in various Batman and detective comics issues, I haven't read any of these.

Robin

The first Robin to get his own ongoing! Like with Nightwing, it started with a miniseries (a few of them, actually) and got turned into a long running series from there. Lasted like 200 issues, too.

Tim FUCKS.

Not Steph's first appearance, but most of her appearances pre-2009 are in this series.

Young Justice 1998

It's insane in all the best ways. Cars have sex on panel. They play baseball to save the world on an alien planet. A power of friendship speech prevents the end of the world. In the first issue, a woman develops breasts so big she falls on her face.

This team eventually breaks apart and Tim along with 3 other teen heroes nicknamed the core four (Superboy, Impulse, & Wonder Girl II) become part of Teen Titans 2003, which I haven't read and is also a bit of a flop era fashion wise for everyone anyway. I do have the volume of TT03 where they meet the versions of themselves from the future and I plan on reading that soon-ish.

In the mid 2000s basically everyone Tim loves dies. Steph died in 2004 ish after a very short stint as Robin. Tim's mom dies, then his dad is murdered, and it's unclear what happened to his step mom, but she was in Bludhaven, which had an atomic bomb dropped on it. Impulse becomes kid flash becomes the flash becomes murdered, and superboy gets killed while saving the world. Steph does turn out to not be dead after all and Impulse and Superboy come back from the dead eventually but by God he's having a tough year BEFORE Bruce "dies".

Red Robin 2009

After Bruce "dies" and Dick becomes Batman, Dick makes Damian his Robin and nobody believes Tim that Bruce is still alive, so he steals the Red Robin costume and goes on a mission to save his dad!

Not a comic to read first because it's so uncharacteristic of Tim as a person, but definitely something to read as soon as possible, because it's ridiculously good.

After flashpoint/n52 Tim doesn't have his own ongoing for a while, but he does come out as bisexual in an early issue of Batman Urban Legends (2021) and he got his own ongoing called Tim Drake: Robin in 2022 which was ugly AF and yet cancelled far too soon. There's a Young Justice run from 2019 I haven't read yet.

Stephanie Brown

For her I would go to Google, bc I haven't gone down the rabbithole enough for her yet. I know her first appearance was in a batman comic where she became spoiler to spoil her dad's plans - her dad being a third rate villain called the cluemaster - and she almost kills him, so good for her. Afterwards she appears every once in a while in various comics, most notably in Robin, where she and Tim as Robin start dating despite him knowing her identity but not the other way around.

Robin 60s (I don't remember the exact issues)

Steph gives birth and gives her baby up for adoption

Robin 126-128

Steph becomes Robin when Tim quits for his still-alive-but-not-for-long dad.

War Games

Steph does a fucky wucky and accidentally starts a gang war which gets her killed

There's another Robin arc where she comes back and it turns out she was never dead, Leslie (the family doctor) simply faked her death and sent her to Africa to recover

Batgirl 2009

Her first and only solo ongoing, but it's really good

She also appears a lot in Cass's Batgirl ongoings, and occasionally shows up in yj98. Her most recent series in Batgirls, which isn't very good but her interactions with Cass are very gay, and we've all been shipping it for 20 years at this point, so frankly it's long overdue. Unlikely to become canon tho, unfortunately.

Cassandra Cain

She doesn't use a lot of words, so neither will I. Probably.

No Man's Land

Frankly I am terrified to read this, it's so many goddamn issues, but this is her first appearance. I have one "volume" and it's as big as the fucking Bible.

Batgirl 2000

She's the first Batgirl to get an ongoing. The one from 2008 I've been reliably told isn't very good. She's absolutely terrifying in the 2000 one, I approve.

Outsiders 2016

Supposed to also be good for Duke content. I think at this point she's going by Orphan? Idk she's had a lot of names.

Idk I prefer Black Bat

Spirit World

Mini series that recently ended. Soooooo good. Alyssa Wong is a top contender for favorite modern writer.

She's mostly a background character. Bc DC is both sexist AND racist. She was also in batgirls.

Damian Wayne

Frankly he's my least favorite of the batkids, but that's not his fault, he's been a victim of a lot of really racist writing.

Batman: Son of the Demon

Somehow both his origin AND an elseworlds that doesn't count. Not required reading, but Bruce and Talia are madly in love in this.

Batman by Grant Morrison

After UTRH and before Dick was forced to become Batman Morrison reintroduced Talia's son, who in this version was a rape baby bc apparently brutalia weren't in love and Talia drugged Bruce. Fucking fine, I guess.

His character growth during his time as robin is sweet tho.

Robin 2021

His only solo ongoing, pretty good

Super Sons

He had two team up comics with then fellow child Jon Kent, son of superman, and it was fucking adorable. Then they aged up Jon to 17, so they're still friends, but Jon has his own shit going on.

Duke Thomas

He's REALLY new, and I haven't read any of it, I'm sorry.

Robin War

Batman and the Signal - I finally got my hands on the first issue of this last week!

The Outsiders 2016

Frankly they should capitalize on the Duke & Cass friendship/siblingship more often.

Alfred Pennyworth

I haven't read it, but there's a series called Pennyworth about his days as a spy for the crown. Supposed to be pretty good.

Kate Kane

The Jewish lesbian batwoman of our dreams

Batwoman: Elegy

Her introduction

Also, it's written by Greg Rucka, and if he can do one thing, it's write sapphic women. I'm not even joking.

Get the newer edition that has both of her original Rucka stories

Batwoman ongoings

She's had a couple, they're both supposed to be pretty solid, I've only read a few issues here and there

Batman in other media

Animated: I'm currently watching Batman the Animated Series for the first time and it seems to really get Bruce as a character, even if Robin will be there one episode and his existence will be a plot hole in the next. The Justice League animated series has also been fun so far. Teen Titans have gotten a number of animated adaptations all of which have pretty strong followings. There's an animated show called "Young Justice" which is a Teen Titans show and I refuse to watch it (it has a very devout following, but all that means is that the Young Justice - All Media Types tag on ao3 is just the same as Young Justice Cartoon and I have to filter heavily when looking for yj98 fics). Lego Batman is a REALLY fun film, and I think it turned into a whole franchise.

Live action TV: I have watched the first season of both Titans and Gotham, but both of those were before I was into the batfamily as a concept. My impression of Titans is overall negative and my impression of Gotham is overall positive.

Live action movies: There are so many Goddamn Batman movies. I like the Dark Knight Trilogy, but even calling it "based on" the Dark Knight comic trilogy is giving it a lil more credit than it deserves. The Batman 2022 is massively popular with the comic fandom for a reason - I'm not a big fan of it, but I did enjoy laughing at the movie so at least there's that. Batfleck sucks. I haven't seen anything else, up to and including the Joker movie. Oh, and Birds of Prey was really good, but that's not Cass.

Video games: The Arkham trilogy is well loved and I have indeed just bought it, but I haven't gotten to it because I'm currently working on Gotham Knights and uh. Okay so listen. This game is a lot of fun and I will be finishing it. But it's like. Got a massively antisemitic plot point. I can't even say I don't recommend it, I'm genuinely enjoying the game a lot. But I've never seen anybody bring this up, and it's bugging me.

ANYWAY I'm sure I've missed a LOT but this is introductory so you know I'm giving myself grace. There's characters I completely skipped and I'm sure mega fans of characters I haven't read much of will be offended that I said such and such about them but you know it's only been about a year and a half since I started reading dc comics and I'm still figuring it all out. And I probably will still be figuring it out for the next decade. To me that's actually part of the fun of it.

#batman #bruce wayne #dick grayson #jason todd #tim drake #stephanie brown #barbara gordon #cassandra cain #damian wayne #kate kane #duke thomas #alfred pennyworth #batfam #dc #reading list #gail speaks #ask #fageles

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annabelle--cane · 4 months

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I might be off base with this, but I feel like some of the issue of fans not understanding the nuance and complexity in TMA may come from the fan base skewing pretty young. Not to say that teens can't understand nuance, they very much can. But it is something you kind of have to learn and some might not be quite there yet.

This isn't to like, excuse bad takes necessarily. It's just something I personally keep in mind.

That said, plenty of fully grown adult fans have horrible takes. This isn't a "the kids are ruining the fandom" thing either.

in my personal observations, bad takes from Youths and bad takes from Adults in the tma fandom come in two distinct flavors. Youth bad takes tend to just be, idk, kinda dumb? like they're not even really discussing the content of the show itself, they're discussing a fanon version of events and don't really connect why things are the way they are in canon. Adult bad takes, on the other hand, do engage with the show more, but because they engage with it directly they end up being even more radioactively wrong. a Youth bad take may spring from not having a lot of knowledge about a given topic and trying to opine on it anyway, whereas an Adult bad take comes from thinking "I have quite a bit of experience with this thing so I must be right about it" and projecting their background and baggage wildly onto a scenario where it doesn't fit. ex. the worst georgie discourse (tm) takes I see almost exclusively come from people aged 25+ who directly relate to either jon or georgie's position in their dynamic.

#tma #answered #anons

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royboyfanpage · 2 months

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Hi, I love your page! What are your thoughts on Roy and Connor's relationship?

Hi! Thank you so much, I'm glad you like my posts :) and thank you sososo much for this ask, I love Roy and Connor's relationship and I'm glad I have an opportunity to talk about them. Sorry it's taken me all day to answer, but here you go :)

Short answer? That's his little brother.

Long answer?

I know that "fanon Batfam is canon Arrowfam" is tired and overused, but I really do think that, especially with Roy and Connor, there is some truth to it. While they haven't had too many interactions in canon, there's still a clear arc their relationship takes which I really like.

I don't like Chuck Dixon's Green Arrow run, obviously he's a shitty person but also his writing just isn't for me, but one of the few parts of it I did enjoy was Connor's first meeting with Roy in Green Arrow (1988) #97, prior to Ollie's death. It first establishes one of the most present themes in their relationship, which is the differences in relation to Ollie, and the contrasting experiences of being their father's sons. Roy's the son who grew up with Ollie, he knows him personally, the good and the bad, but his status as Ollie's son is still constantly in question, you can see it back in Longbow Hunters, Ollie calls Roy his son but still denies that that word has meaning ("Roy's a hell of a kid, but he's not mine. Not really.") Whereas Connor, there's never been any doubt that he's Ollie's son, he's his flesh and blood, but he never knew Ollie until he was already in adulthood. He knows Oliver Queen through magazines, but not personally. That's why when Ollie storms off after finding out he's Connor's dad Connor's shocked, but Roy isn't surprised when he hears that from Connor. He knows Ollie, and he knows how his fears of commitment would make him act. While this is only a minor theme of those specific issues where they first met, Roy helping Connor understand what it means to be Oliver Queen's son is one of my favourite parts of their later interaction.

After Ollie's death, there is some tension between Roy and Connor, particularly around Connor joining the JLA in Ollie's place and becoming the new Green Arrow, first mentioned in Teen Titans (1996) #12-

-which is later expanded on in Arsenal #2.

This is really the first time we see Roy and Connor have a heart to heart, and it shows Roy's inferiority complex. Due to tumblr photo limit I can't show more pages for this, but I think the one I chose is the most poignant because, at least in my eyes, it shows the insecurities both of them have in terms of their relation to Ollie, and how each of them address that. Roy's loud, he'll openly speak his mind and say what he feels, and that's why it's primarily about him (that and that it's his mini and Connor's a guest). Roy openly admits feeling inferior to Connor in his position as Ollie's son, even after Ollie's death. Connor, he's quieter about it, and gets spoken over by Roy before he can actually talk about his feelings (which is a pretty consistent problem Connor faces where people expect him to listen but not talk). But you can still see it in his body language, the shadow over his face looking downwards, and while he isn't allowed to finish his sentence you can still tell what he's about to say, that Roy's more of Ollie's son than he is. They both know that the other hasn't actually done anything, but they're not to blame for each feeling their own individual emotions.

They also address the topic of legacy in relation to Ollie in #3, and how there's this unspoken standard to live up to that neither of them ever really can. Roy's Ollie's mentee, his protege, he should be Ollie's legacy, and yet he's not Green Arrow, he's not in the JLA, and he's still coming in second place. Whereas Connor, he is Green Arrow, he's Ollie's legacy, he's in the JLA, but he's a better martial artist than archer.

I wish they'd gotten more opportunities to interact while Ollie was dead because there was SO much potential for them during that period, but alas.

And now, I get to talk about one of my top five comics ever: Boys' Night Out, Green Arrow (2001) #32. Yeah, sure, the whole issue only happened because Ollie wanted Connor out of the house, but it's also the first comic to really explore the brotherly relationship between them, particularly in terms of Roy being older. Roy takes Connor bookshopping despite his own boredom-

-And then takes him to a strip club, where they have another heart to heart.

This page specifically is so important to me, because it's one of the few instances where Connor's actually being heard. Particularly in the 2000s but also in the 90s, a lot of Connor's character was defined by him being the voice of reason, the one who'll talk people down and listen to their problems, which ignores the fact that he's actually a pretty young guy, usually younger than the people he's helping (I suck with ages, I'm pretty sure he was 18 when he was first introduced which, by rough estimate using the Lian Method, would make him around 20-22 in the 2000s). I'm not saying that diminishes his emotional intelligence, he's clearly very emotionally intelligent, but it is a lot of pressure to put on someone that young to constantly be the one holding his family together. That's why I think this whole issue is so important for Connor, it's his chance to actually just be, and Roy's the best person for that. Despite what some fanon and canon characterisations suggest, Roy is absolutely not emotionally immature. Hell, you could make a pretty solid argument that part of the reason he took Connor to a strip club in the first place was to bring up the issue of Connor's sexuality. While asexuality wasn't as popularised as a term back then as it is today, the idea of Connor being queer was very present during Green Arrow (2001), albeit often used as a punchline, and while they're there Connor even gets referred to as a "friend of Madonna" by one of the workers. And while in Roy's head Connor was either gay or just had a low libido at that time, his "you're you and Ollie loves you" speech could very easily be interpreted as acceptance of his sexuality, even before Connor himself had figured it out. It acknowledges that, while Connor's good at helping other people work through their own problems, he's still a young person struggling with his identity, not understanding why he's so different to those around him, even his father. And Roy picks up on that, and tells him that it doesn't matter who or what he is, that what matters most is he's Connor, and him being Connor is enough to warrant love and support.

But Roy also doesn't treat Connor any differently to how he'd treat anyone else. When Connor says something Roy disagrees with, he calls him out

And I think Roy's treatment of Connor as an equal is very important. He doesn't depend on him or treat him like he's this pinnacle of wisdom, but he also doesn't coddle him and treat him like a baby. He calls his ass out, when he needs to! Roy's still a very loud and outspoken person, and he's not gonna change that because he and Connor had a heart to heart. I feel like a big problem with a lot of characters who enter into a family dynamic is that sometimes their writers change who they are at their core in order to have them fit into a specific role in the nuclear family, and while yeah, Roy's absolutely playing the role of an older brother in this issue, he's still Roy Harper, which I think is crucial. And conversely, Connor also calls Roy out when he does something he doesn't like!

I'm running low on the photo limit so apologies for the quality of this collage, and I couldn't fit it in frame but for context Roy just knocked out a robber who Connor was trying to talk down. Connor explains to Roy his reasonings, and Roy apologises! I think this also highlights the differences in terms of their characters. They're both very protective of their families, but Roy tends to act first whereas Connor thinks things through. Roy saw Connor with a gun pointed at him and immediately took action, which contrasts Connor's reaction when Roy gets shot in Outsiders #6

Connor's more of a rational thinker in times of crisis, and he tends to try and think things through and avoid rash decisions, whereas Roy's very much an immediate responder if his family's at stake.

And then it ends with them actually acknowledging each other as brothers!

The ending of Boys' Night Out is so important to me, honestly, and it demonstrates one of the most important features of their relationship- trying to figure out what brotherhood means. There's not a big hug at the end, there doesn't need to be. Just an acknowledgement that they're in each others lives, that they're brothers, and it doesn't matter what that means. It's cool. I adore this issue so much, I had to make like half the post about it because it's so good and it's such a good example of why filler issues are needed. Sure, Williamson's run has it's sweet moments, but an issue like this where two characters just get to interact in a low stake scenario will always be so much more impactful than one hug in a big event.

So, yeah, I think my short answer sums it up pretty well. They're the brothers ever.

#sorry this took me all day to answer i had a lil bit too much to drink last night and had a hangover until like 5pm #pro tip don't have your first shot at midnight #roy harper #speedy #arsenal #red arrow #connor hawke #green arrow

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ectonurites · 1 year

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I love when comic characters have arcs about accepting that a loved one is never coming back in a universe where people regularly come back from the dead

sdgfhhkjgh comic book death is just so fascinating to me

because on the one hand yeah, it's SUPER FUNNY in the situations where the narrative doesn't at all engage with the idea of resurrection and just treats death the way it exists irl even though we as readers know damn well it doesn't...

but other approaches are what intrigue me so so SO much more

like, I think about Tim & Dick's fight around the Lazarus Pit during The Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul a lot:

(Nightwing (1996) #139)

Knowing some people get to come back, being painfully aware of it (quite literally in the above example considering the like two times Tim had interacted with Jason at that point were Jason slitting his throat during Hush and then breaking into Titans Tower to beat the shit out of him in his own makeshift Robin costume), and then getting so frustrated about how unfair it can be that some come back and others don't...

The fact that when you're facing a loss, when you see someone you love die—there's this glimmer of hope that maybe they'll get to come back too, but there's no way you can really know...

Then even if they do come back, is it ever gonna be the same? (Again: Look at Jason! I am constantly annoyed by 'oughghgh Lazarus Pit Madness made him like this' fanon, but the trauma of being murdered and feeling unavenged did a fuckin' number on his psyche that's for sure!!)

And then there's this bit with Cassie & Kon I think about a lot too:

(Teen Titans Vol. 3 #88)

Like, even when a person is back in front of you—if you spent time mourning and grieving it doesn't just go away! You know that you can lose them, you did lose them, even though they're back now there's no guarantee they'll stay back.

JUST... AGH!! There is genuinely so much interesting stuff to dig into when you actually acknowledge and engage with how fucking weird of a situation it would be to live in a world like that!

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justjasper · 5 months

Note

do you have any domestic moreid headcanons?

Pre-Relationship

They become fast friends, they hang out a lot, they call each other at odd hours.

Reid gets Morgan into Star Trek by making him watch Deep Space Nine. Morgan would fight god for Captain Sisko.

They fall into bed sometime in season 1, and keep doing so on and off for years while their feelings brew.

Reid wakes up alive after the events of Amplification with Morgan by his bedside, and they have a conversation full off feelings. They become "official" here.

Newly Established

They can both cook; Reid looked after his mother and went to college young, Morgan's dad cooked, and Morgan followed his example.

Nobody proposes moving in together officially, Reid just spends less and less time at his apartment until the lease runs out. He mentions it to Morgan quite matter of factly, and Morgan shrugs, smiles, pulls his pretty boy in for a kiss. "Most of your books are here already."

A morning where they don't have to work goes like this: Morgan gets up early to go for a run with Clooney. By the time he's back, Reid is making is making them breakfast. They eat, and then shower together.

Morgan has a decent vinyl collection and likes to listen to them on chill evenings. Reid is a musical sponge, and if he gets a chance when they're on cases, will seek out record shops for something interesting or rare.

Their favourite takeout is Thai. Reid is one of those "white guy with spice tolerance" outliers.

Well Established

It takes some time for them to switch to using first names in private, Morgan takes significantly longer. It's not a problem, they've known and loved each other a long time with these names. Neither of them shorten each other's names.

Clooney is a K9 dropout, and highly trainable, and Reid teaches him a lot of silly tricks. He likes to show Clooney magic tricks.

One of the properties Morgan buys has a decrepid grand piano in it. He gets it restored for Reid, who's dabble with learning on and off. He plays the piano every day.

Morgan thinks Reid doesn't really believe in marriage as an institution, and is okay with that, they don't have to get married, even if they could. Reid proposes to Morgan one morning in shower.

Reid never gets an official autism dignosis, wanting the plausible deniability while working for the goverment. They talk about it. Morgan starts packing a weighted blanket in his go-bag for him (people often ask why his go back is so heavy).

The Future

They get married once it's legal, a simple ceremony but all their important people are there.

When they leave the BAU it's a joint decision. They're both ready for a new adventure, with less actual threat of bodily harm.

Morgan goes into property full time, flipping houses and rent-to-buying them to local people/families, instead of selling them to landlord who will end up pushing locals out of the area.

Reid goes into research/lecturing.

They move to Chicago to be closer to family. They move Diana to be close them them too.

As Reid gets older, he has to use a cane more. His migranes are mostly under control, but eventually he experiences migralepsy (migraine seizures). The dog they get after Clooney passes becomes Reid's service dog.

The Future (with kid)

Reid carries (he's trans). It's an unplanned pregnancy, but they go for it. Reid is terrible at being pregnant.

They have a daughter they name Sam after Morgan's dad (bc I chose this fanon name years before CM bothered to give Morgan's dad a canon name and I am sticking with it out of spite).

Morgan's sisters teach Reid to do Sam's hair.

Morgan is very involved when sam becomes a Girl Scout, and coaches her softball team.

Reid teaches her piano. They read together every day.

They struggle not to intefer when she's a teen and it becomes apparent the girl she keeps bringing home is her first crush.

They both try so hard to be present, devoted dads that they can can fall into helicopter parent tendencies.

#moreid #headcanon #derek morgan #spencer reid #my fic #not really but

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laufire · 2 months

Note

if you're willing, would you mind sharing more of your thoughts on mia/jason? B/c i personally can't see mia wanting anything to do with him (based on the green arrow arc), but i am open to having my mind changed if you have a case for it

sure!

I'll preface this by saying that although I ship them, I don't have A Plot for them yet, the way I do for other of my jason rareships, and thus I have yet to ~envision how I'd personally have it go down. but these are my thoughts on them at the moment.

first of all... the green arrow arc isn't this HORRIBLE, TEERRIBLE, AWFUL thing that happened to mia, or this irredeemable evil jason did, and I'm always baffled whenever I see it talked about that way. like. mia is not a normie kid living her normie life in a slice-of-life teen story. she's a freaking SUPERHERO that risks her freaking LIFE on the regular. jason is this dude one, maybe two years older than her that didn't even want to seriously harm her.

she obviously wouldn't walk out of that encounter with kind thoughts about him. he was an asshole! he wanted to scare her! (and he had a GOAL re: sidekicks and the danger they're exposed to and a point to prove about it, which I always feel is handwaved). but like, jason is not a static character, or not doomed to be at least. he'd have to sincerely apologise, saying that yeah, he was a shit, that was a shitty thing to do, he was projecting some stuff on hers and ollie's relationship that wasn't even true and he's ready to compensate her for it. and again, these are... not normal people. like sorry but I just don't think what jason did in that arc garrants an eternity of hate and enmity to them.

and obviously not hating him forever/seeing his actions for what they were and not more/being able to forgive them in the face of a sincere apology and amendments isn't the same as actually seeing jason as a romantic prospect! but it's a first step into a less than hostile dynamic.

and within that context, I could see mia thinking back on some of the things jason said in their confrontation, about them being alike (also, winick wasn't been subtle in his parallels here, but I've seen people being VERY obtuse about this part of the scene añsldkf). I haven't read mia in a team context/with lots of peers her age yet, but even if she's more likely to find people with commonalities/messed up childhoods among child heroes, common ground is still something to be curious about, to bond over. and such very specific common ground would be something I think she'd value.

I haven't reached that arc yet, but I know mia has also killed, once, in circumstances where she thought she had no other choice. and she doesn't want to do that anymore, she wants to be a hero and stay on the path and raise above. those are things that I find interesting in conjunction to a dynamic with jason, in particular. the way it would lead both to conflict and to a different level of understanding.

also, there's always this sense in posts against these ships where I feel like... mia doesn't have to be perfect. she can be messy and make questionable romantic choices and maybe they pan out or maybe they don't, but it could be something actually fun to explore with her character, to see her in a context like that. less in the "bad boy attraction" sense because really, past aesthetics jason does not fit that role in a romantic sense, but as in getting to explore other sides of her character through a romantic relationship, especially as a character with both a history of sexual abuse and with HIV. and I'm sure there are other candidates for that, both canon and fanon, but it just happens that the first thing I read with her was the Jason Being A Menace arc and that I looooove a meet ugly, especially if it comes with a "recognition through the other (derogatory)" bonus.

anyway. I'm not trying to convince anyone because I'm perfectly happy in my rowboat-sized ships and it's nothing to me if other people disagree or judge me for them lol, but thanks for the chance to talk about them a bit!

#talking to the void #my thoughts #dc #dc thoughts #fandom nonsense #jaymia #jason todd #mia dearden #favourites: birds of a feather #replies #anonymous

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sleepsentry · 10 months

Text

Hoooooooooboyyyyyyyyy...

I've spent most of my years in the gravity falls fandom as a kid/teen.

And I kinda resent seeing adult fans turn a comforting kids show about embracing your inner kid and not being ashamed of fun, into a dramatic, petty morality obsessed, soap opera...

Like- its really uncomfortable the way most of the adult characters are depicted in fanon, it doesn't feel "more realistic" it feels like the adult fans are kind of ashamed of any interpretation that isn't "acceptably mature".

______

For example: The way Stan and Ford are turned into the worst versions of Batman.

Stan and Ford are often depicted with a subtle but important edge that isn't necessarily present in canon.

Especially in fanworks wich focuse on them instead of the broader family.

As if their softer, goofier sides are just a front for the sake of the kids rather than fundamental parts of who they are as characters.

They're not.

They're just as important as their more "serious grown up moments"

Stan and Ford aren't adult characters in an adult show, they're adult characters in a kids show and their silliness is essential.

Their approachable, softer, kinder, moments, are vital, as authority figures in a show where the intended audience is expected to relate to the children they are responsible for.

Their vulnerability and screwing up is an important aspect of the show, showing kids that adults don't know everything and it's important to question them when they make mistakes.

"Adults are often just as afraid as you are and it's OK for them to express that, it's also important that they don't make it you're responsibility to deal with" is at the core of the way Stan, Ford and most adults in the show are depicted.

It's a comforting and affirming theme to have in a show about two kids on the brink of losing that childhood wonder, or at least afraid of losing it.

As Mabel says:

"They got... stupid. Promise me we won't get stupid."

______

I've seen so many adults make these characters more "adult" to appeal to them and it isn't even bad, it's just uncomfortable... it feels wrong.

Fiddleford is another adult character that I often see treated like this:

A lot of depictions of younger fidds I've seen (especially within the context of shipping him with ford) basically turn him into a conflicted love interest lady having an affair with her negligent boss in a stupid 80s movie-

I'm not getting into how fiddauthor is being used as a "safe ship" by the broader fandom and being stripped of its nature as a character dynamic and used as a tool to excuse morality based shaming and harassment by grown adults over stupid cartoon men-with cucumber shaped noses

It gives off similar vibes to certain queer peeps appealing to homophobes by throwing less "digestible" queer people under the bus and its not that serious its cartoon shipping for fucks sake

it's so uncomfortable when you remember he's a silly little hillbilly man.

His name is FIDDLEFORD.

MC. GUCKET. (•□•)

He's got depth and serious moments for days but he's also introduced screaming and jigging and slapping a sandwich out of someone's hands.

He contains multitudes withing his vegetable shaped head.

He's not Ford's frustrated underpaid secretary (as funny as that sounds)

______

Emotional depth and maturity aren't exclusively adult things.

The bloody "Goofy Movie" isn't suddenly an adult film because it has moments of quiet maturity and melancholy, along-side the expected goofyness.

That sense of quiet maturity isn't age locked in reality and I'm so tired of it feeling like it is.

It's not wrong or bad to depict more mature things with a story and characters aimed at kids.

But I think it's very disingenuous to dismiss the lighter elements in favour of the moments that "go over kids heads" they don't.

Even if the kid doesn't understand the adult joke, they can tell something is off and it's annoying how smug grown ups are about it.

I know Gravity Falls itself has that tone so I might aswell be complaining about fire burning or ice melting.

But it's taken to such extremes that it makes my inner kid feel like grown ups are twisting one of the few things I have and making it about themselves again... that's uncomfortably personal and petty I know.

But the reality is, that's been my experience for the majority of my time in this fandom.

Only in the past few years have I grown out of the "baby fan" vibe and it's going to shape my reactions to fanworks regardless.

______

For another example cartoon characters swearing isn't bad.

But it's jarring when adult behaviours (which more often than not means behaving like an ass) are superimposed onto child friendly characters, and these behaviours are taken for granted as "more realistic and natural" it's just... like no that's not true.

There are adults who don't like swearing or drinking or smoking, there are kids I knew when I was little (11 - 14) who enjoyed doing all those things for better or worse.

Seeing Teenagers complaining about 40+ year old characters being "infantilised" or "UwU-ified" as if grown ups can't be vulnerable is just saddening.

Adult female fans complaining that male characters aren't "man enough" is kinda scary to be honest, especially when those softer depictions are usually from teens and maybe even young boys/men in my case.

The problem is behaviours and perspectives are so strictly coded and enforced that even in a sub-community of a sub-community you get people enforcing arbitrary codes of conduct or depiction.

It's a kids show.

Relax.

He said to himself as much as whoever bothered to read this far.

I'm gonna go have a glass of water and some fresh air, if you've read this far I'd recommend doing so too but also, despite the tone of this wall of text, I'm not your dad.

#gravity falls #not art #rant #text post #long post #im being a killjoy again

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quitealotofsodapop · 9 months

Note

Where did the idea that Macaque and PIF are swirn siblings come from? I've seen it in a few other fics and while I'm not in any way against it I am curious. Is it just fannon or is there evidence for it in either the show or the original text? And how did the two of them meet in your au?

I believe it's a popular fanon idea. I think it spawned from the fact that Wukong and DBK are canonically sworn brothers, and thus Macaque and PIF would have interacted back in the day through the Brotherhood - both were/are not looked upon the best by the leaders of the Brotherhood, so they may have found friendship in one another. They are also both cool af characters that sadly never interacted in the show proper.

Macaque ( -_-)/\(-_- ) PIF: Being bad b*tches with wind powers and impulsive spouses who got trapped under a mountain for 400+ years.

In "The Monkey King and the Infant" au they're sworn/adoptive siblings due to mutual past history, even before The Brotherhood. They met as young children (an incident where little Princess Tieshan stole her big sister's bag of wind and got stranded on the moon), and later became eachother's confidants when they reunited as teens (Macaque becoming PIF's attendant). When the Brotherhood started up, Macaque accidentally introduced PIF and DBK while sneaking out for a meeting. When PIF was disowned by her family for falling in love with a demon; Macaque was one of very few from her old life that stayed by her side. They supported eachother emotionally through thick and thin - SWK being imprisioned + his and Macaque's breakup, PIF's banishment and troubles having a child etc...

Then Macaque "died".

And so PIF lost the closest to a little brother she ever had.

DBK finding out about Macaque's death (or whatever version someone spun about it), combined with Red Son being taken away by Guanyin after the Samadhi Fire ritual, is partially what drove him into a rage + his own imprisonment under a mountain. And so Princess Iron Fan was left (almost) completely alone for roughly 400+ years. It's no wonder why she fcking hates SWK's guts.

By the time of the fic start, she straight up decides "fck this I'm taking my kid back and finding a way to remove the staff. I ain't waiting around on earth alone anymore."

Then a month or so later she recieves a knock on her door;

Macaque: "Hey, jiejie [big sis]. I uh... kinda got revived???" PIF: "...how and why?!" Macaque: "No idea [lie]. Ok, long story short; Wukong knocked me up-" PIF: "THAT SON OF A BIT-" Macaque: "Yeah I was mad too. We're kinda *still* on a break right now so can I crash here until... I dunno either he apologizes, I stop being mad at him, or you know... forever?" PIF, (trying to hide tears of joy): "Forever sounds like just long enough."

The emotional reunion is interuppted by toddler Red Son charging head-first (bull calf style) into Macaque out of excitement.

After realising that his sworn uncle is very upset with the Monkey King; Red Son declares war on Sun Wukong and later secretly begins devising a plan to kidnap him and force him to lift the staff. PIF thinks its adorable how protective Red Son is over them, while Macaque is reading the kid's revenge corkboard like "Oh dang, he's really going for it. I'm so proud of him. Wait... is this what having a kid feels like??"

When SWK shows up looking for Macaque, PIF pretty much wind-fan kicks his ass straight out of the mountain. Cue Wukong thinking he has to do something; Big, Dumb, Dangerous, and Extremely Hearfelt in order to get back into both Macaque's and PIF's good graces...

Small spoilers:

Macaque, extremely touched but confused af: "Peaches, I would have accepted an apology and some flowers!" PIF, non-stop cuddling DBK since he got back: "Not me. This barely gets Wukong off my hit list."

Its a huge thing. The citizens of Diyu are shooken. By the end of it, the fam is extremely confused but happy to be reunited. Red Son declares it his first ever evil victory.

#the monkey king and the infant au #the monkey king and the infant #lmk shadowpeach au #lmk princess iron fan #liu er mihou #six eared macaque #lmk demon bull king #lmk red son #lmk ironbull #shadowpeach #Macaque and Princess Iron Fan are Sworn Siblings #lmk s4 spoilers #lmk backstory hcs #lmk character hcs #lmk tmkati au story events #lmk demon bull family #lmk dbk #lmk pif

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jamsofdeath0 · 1 year

Text

So Danny runs away with Haly's Circus. He sorta becomes like a big brother to Dick over the course of a year or two. When they hit Gotham the Graysons die aydda yadda. No they don't become ghosts.

When Gotham refuses to let Dick leave Danny stays too. He also promises to run away with Dick the moment they can. He doesn't get a good chance. Running away with a child is much harder than alone. He doesn't know the city. Or even where he'd find Haly's.

So they spend maybe a week in separate centers before Danny finds Dick and dips. They're homeless now. But Danny can protect Dick fine. He's got powers. And Dick is surprisingly capable at fighting. Not that Danny would let him near an adult.

Dick wants his parents killer dead. Danny's never killed anyone but Mary and John were kind of his parents too. And the kids not letting up. He promises to kill Zucco as long as Dick doesn't try.

They meet Batman while he's trying to find Zuccos killer. They meet "Bruce" while he's volunteering at a soup kitchen. Eventually he lets Bruce take them in because Danny figures out he's rich rich.

Now Danny's not too fond of kabizzilion airs. But he knows someone like that would probably have a PC. (Takes place in 03/06 depending on Danny's current age so computers are rarer) And between that and swiping a few thousand dollars he could probably get them back to Haly's.

That's how a half ghost teen and a weird little circus kid end up in Wayne manner with no intention to stay more than a week.

(no ghost king or obsessions or cores) (the only fanon I'm accepting is trans Danny)

#dp x dc #yes rheye both technically suspects but bruce is having troubke staying unbiased #like alot of trouble

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davekat-sucks · 1 month

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homestuck's fanbase is really making me feel like giving up on the story as a whole... Jesus, I might just call it quits soon. Listening to idiots try to defend how shit Homestuck's story became is too exhausting. It reminds me of when I was listening to lectures of, people who hardly counted as, writers go off about how important it is to prioritize representation over all else. They never realized if you do a terrible job with writing a story, you do a terrible job of representing women, different racial groups, gay men, ext. They don't want to write female characters like they're people who make mistakes and grow. Those authors wanted women to always be perfect and always in the right and her biggest obstacle is that men don't believe in her. You can see that in Star Wars with Rei or Captain Marvel as an example of the mindset I'm talking about.

I liked homestuck because so many of the female characters had challenges and flaws. Aradia, Terezi, Rose... They had amazing stories and their flaws made them interesting.

Homestuck could have been a story about different people who have completely different mindsets coming together for a common goal. Homestuck is just... soap opera drama and shitty teen romance at the end of the story where the characters just wait for the story to finish and most of the audience left. In the epilogue, it feels like all of the characters gave up. I suppose Kanaya did put in effort to find Rose and make sure she is safe, I'll give the story credit there. Dirk wants something too. Dirk's goal is just to close the loop and create the first universe in the first place but all you ever hear people talking about is how his motivations have something to do with the shitty meta fiction gimmick the story has going on. "Gotta keep the story going or else the characters fade out of memory" That is such bullshit concept. Sounds like a justification for why there are so many Star Wars shows now. Sounds like milking an IP. Quantity of quality kind of excuse.

And, for the record, my beef isn't with how the fandom represents it's own headcanons or interpretations of the characters, my beef is with how people talk about the canon. Fandom and canon should be two different things. But people act like the fandom should influence canon. I thought the point of both of the cherubs were to show that is a bad idea. Fanon being in canon feels like it derails the story, even the homosuck part that Caliborn came up with.

I'm getting tired of trying to even find a space in this fandom. It's occupying too much of my freetime now. I have so much nostalgia for homestuck but now it feels like trying to get back on the swings of a playground, too old for this shit. Fuck, I adulted too hard and I outgrew fandom I guess. Shit sucks.

Ah well, at least they fans are having fun. But how much fun can you really have when Rose screwed over Kanaya in two timelines? Kanaya felt like a better character in the epilouge cause she's given a challenge to face that is unique to her and her relationship with her wife. Rose's dad brainwashed(?) her to leave her wife, wow, Kanaya that's some shit. Just sucks that she is getting cucked AGAIN. Is it a universal constant that Kanaya is just going to keep falling for women who don't respect her? Maybe she should have stuck with Vriska. All of this Kanaya Rose drama is a bad sign of what's to come. I think it's disrespectful to the fans that are still sticking around. I'm not really included in this bunch. My horse tapped out of the race years ago. People who are still holding out for hope this story is going somewhere are either the most optimistic people out there or the most beaten down.

It's no wonder so many people who worked on homestuck abandoned ship. Toby looks like he's having a good career and Hussie looks like he's afraid of what he created. Maybe there is poetic justice to be gleaned from all of this.

It had lot of creative ideas and talent. But through it, there are cracks and messes that can't be ignored. Even now, the same kind of messes appear again in present times and I think people are scared to talk about it in fear that the thing they love was not as great as they though it was. We really are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. Even when moments in the series and narrative itself that tells the audience that we were stupid to even care, we stayed because we loved it for what it was back then before the meta shit kicked in. The whole revival of the series so it won't fade away and being comparable to Star Wars is a good way to describe it. The team not taking risks to actually go outside of the Homestuck cast, tell a new story, or even trying to focus on the base webcomic alone that made it popular in the first place. They can't even put more focus on Hiveswap just yet because they know people know Homestuck first before Hiveswap, despite said game could make a better introduction or entryway for people to get interested in the webcomic. I'm not sure what is going on through Hussie or James Roach's mind for all this.

#homestuck #homestuck fandom

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the-stove-is-divorced · 26 days

Note

Just read your post about the 100 subscriber, and wanted to congratulate you, so :

Congratulations!! 🎉🎊🎉🎊🎉

You totally deserve it and even more. Honestly I'm surprised not more people are subscribed smh

Anyway, seeing as this is a great opportunity to take a sneak peak, I will gladly take it lol

So, my question is, what happens next in your Steven x gotham crossover? And what where you thinking when you decide to merge something as dark and twisted with something also as dark and twisted but better well hidden than the other franchise?

Seriously I wanna open and dissect your brain and see what up with it (not complaining tho, your crossovers are always fun to read)

THANK YOU! ( ´ ▽ ` ) And oh, I haven't thought about that fic in a hot minute, haha. I kinda wanna re-write bits since I absolutely relied on fanon, unfortunately, bleh. But to answer ya, Steven ends up meeting Damian while looking for a new job! I'll put a excerpt down below :D

As for what I was thinking, the idea came to be suddenly, and I was so enraptured by it, I had to write myself. As for why it's so compelling to me: Steven, unlike, characters like Danny from DP, or Spider-Man for crossovers, does not fit in Gotham's world. The others make sense. They fit the mold of vigilante, secret identities, a specific flavor of hero angst, perils from villains, etc, which is why it's so easy to imagine them there. They can adapt easily. They make sense. They fit Gotham's ecosystem, they're vigilantes.

But Steven? He's like a bright pink canon ball of chaos to me. He's a hero, but not seen in the same way the others are, he doesn't hide his identity because everyone knows who he is, and he has to escape his own own narrow expectations of who he's supposed to be. His villains aren't just familiar strangers, but directly impacted by Diamonds, if not Diamonds themselves at one point. His hero-like angst comes from responsibility, a desire to help, but he gets to retire, he has to, for his own sanity.

There's still horror, angst, gut punches, peril, etc, but it's shaped so differently, that putting someone like Steven in to the Gotham ecosystem has to disrupt it, and how that can happen fascinates me deeply. It's still a character adapting to Gotham, but also Gotham adapting to him, or at least, if I got that far. He doesn't quite fit the mold of teenage vigilante, like the others do, and thus what to do with him and think of him (via heroes, villains, civilians), and what he'll do is a delightful to think about. But he's still strange enough that it isn't outrageous to consider, because Gotham is strange, it has to be by nature. It can't go like how crossovers tend to go, which is exactly what I wanted, or tried to attempt.

Sliding over closer, carefully still, Damian lets his hand waver around the lion's nose, letting the creature sniff it if need be, to which it simply blinks, expectantly.

Damian swallows, and gently, lets his fingers brush the lion’s mane. It’s so soft. He can’t help but coo, quietly, brushing as much as it allows. He curses, he wishes he hadn’t broken his arm, otherwise he could be petting it with both of his hands, as he should’ve been destined to do.

Foolishly, too overcome by the beauty of the lion he forgets his troubles, Damian clenching his fist tight, an ache spikes right back in retaliation, making him hiss and wince. He freezes, instinctively, over displaying such an open weakness before a stranger. Then again, there is nothing particularly frightening about him. Other than Damian’s usual, reasonable sense of wary paranoia, and ignoring his basis for the big cat, this teen reeks of tourist obliviousness fitting for Metropolis and potentially damning for one existing in Gotham. The teenager, the stranger with the Lion, doesn’t seem dangerous, either. Or capable of it, really. He’s disgustingly friendly. Unless-

The teenager’s eyes linger over to Damian’s cast, interrupting Damian’s paranoid spiral. “Oh, your arm! Is it broken? Do you, um, do you want me to fix that? Your arm? I can?”

The older teenager points at Damian’s cast, his head tilted ever so slightly, and when the light catches, the wind brushing back the leaves to spotlight his eyes, his black pupils seem almost cat-like for a second, a shaded pink hue embedded within them, distinctly in the shape of diamonds.

Alien, Damian almost breathes. He’s gotta be an alien. Either that or a meta. Or, a heavy magic user to be shaped so subtly by his own magic, or to be so thoroughly warped by some sort of artifact. Damian stares at him, and decides sporadically, if just for the sake of seeing where this goes, and silently remarking if this is a kidnapping scheme, he’s knocking this guy unconscious and stealing his lion, nods. Better yet, if he’s a criminal, he has stumbled upon a tidy excuse to show how greatly he can perform in spite of such an injury.

“You may assist.”

The teenager does not whisper some ancient, ritual spell, nor does he transfer his hands upon Damian’s cast, murmuring words beyond human comprehension. Seamlessly, the teeenager licks his finger, and pokes Damian in the arm, pressing gently, before looking at him expectantly.

The man’s a lunatic, Damian swiftly decides.

And like any normal, rational being with any functioning brain matter, he quickly calculates how many steps to take in order to dropkick this fiend into the dirt, without dirtying his clothes, and thus capturing Father’s suspicion. Cannot get caught doing any labor, less his family notices, and decides to stick with him something as stupid as a babysitter of some sort. Though, this weirdness probably would be justifiable for perhaps body slamming him into the ground and snapping his fingers.Just as Damian shifts back, something happens.

His arm glitters.

Light wraps around it, glowing softly beneath the cast, a fluttery, spiral of pink drifting into the air, warmth tingling his bones until he flexes his arm, bracing for the harsh spike of pain, but none comes. There’s no soreness, no exhaustion, no nothing. The light fades, and jut like that: his arm is fixed. It feels fine. It feels normal. It doesn’t even ache.

He pauses. His mind whirs.

Damian stares at the (possibly insane, or socially oblivious, yet strangely, perhaps, genuinely friendly) alien, (or meta, or magic, to be determined) boy and his majestic pink lion. He flexes his arm again. Wiggles it. Tense it. Hits it. No pain, no numbing sensation, or strange marks that he can see. The tingling ache lingering along his bones have faded away. Forgotten. Gone.

“You healed me,” Damian murmured in awe.

He’s-he’s back on patrol now, he could storm right back into the Manor and prove just how capable he truly is, march right up to Father and show everyone, even that miserable, disrespectful heathen Drake and-

But, Father would be suspicious. This was no doubt something mystical, or magical, or meta adjacent, and then what intentions, what side effects, what tests and pokes and prods would Damian have to endure to prove this is to be trusted to be back on the field?That Damian could be back in his spot, where he belonged, immediately?

#asks #tysm for asking !! i forgot about this fic haha!#my writing #my fics #hope ya enjoyed the snippet #on reflect i think i wrote damian okay but i DEF wanna correct tim's characterization the most ugh #but again this was delightful to discuss

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brutaliakent · 2 years

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// Not Tim Drake friendly

Like idk how to start this but I'll just profess by saying that majority of what I talk about is about his fanon characterisation and if you get offended then in the nicest way possible idgaf

Like why is Tim so fucking infantalized in fanon like some of his fans so obsessed with making him oppressed and a victim when he's not. Its like him in comics canon and him potrayed by fandom by 90% of fics I've read are two totally different person.

He's like a mediocre person in comics at best, I dont like him but I dont mind him either. Also he is written as a misogynist and his treatment of his gfs is abominable but I let it slide cuz maybe it was the writers fault idk

But the way fans potray him to be this holier than thou- never doing anything wrong and smartest robin (cue eyeroll) is wild and wholey inaccurate cuz like he's not. Canonically they're all similar iq and they're all trained by a detective so they're quite good at it, Dick was a mathelete and Jason had solid GPA of 94.8 and Tim dropped out of school to search for Bruce. He is tech savvy and good at computers but he's not the only one from the batfamily to be that is he, I'd say Barbara is the best at that but don't forget Dick used to be a hacker too like I've seen some of yall treat him as this one dimensional sunshine person who has eldest daughter syndrome but like he also has temper and he's clever and sharp and if I'm not wrong he even as degree in Business in main dc universe but that's besides the point

Also headcanoning him as asian feels weird and very playing into stereotype of asians being this super smart people (when there's no proof he's anything but white in canon)

Fanon also for some strange reasons hold on to Jason and Damian trying to kill him and saying how much it would have caused him trauma while completely removing him from the scene except for that scenario. Let me explain for example Damian trying to kill him where they forget the instigator of some are Tim too like he was legit 17 yr old beefing with 10 yr old bffr, did we also collectively ignore him putting the same 10 yr old on a hitlist like... yall act like this was a buffet and you can pick and choose but the thing is that you can pick and choose what to accept from canon but if you're picking Tim being attacked by Dami then maybe mention what he did too instead of victimizing him

Just kinda throwing it in here cuz we're talking about it, Dick didnt fire Tim from Robin because of bad faith, I'm pretty sure it was Alfred who gave Damian the Robin suit first but Dick didnt want Tim to be Robin because Dick saw Tim as an equal rather than a sidekick.

Also the big deal of Jason's attack on Titans Tower irks me a little but like pls remember that Jason made a last minute decision to go there and just beat the shit out of Tim and that's it and it wasnt nice of him to do that but I support his wrongs too

Since we're talking about Titans Tower fics anyways I also find it incredibly peculiar that writers (fanfic) potray him much younger than he was like Tim was 17 during UTRH and around 19 during Teen Titans #29

(Also pretty sure like 99.9% sure that Jason calling Tim 'Replacement' also came from fanon and it was from j*yt*m shippers so like 😵‍💫,, although Jason did call him 'Pretender' in Batman Hush a few times)

(Also highjacking this to talk about Pit madness cuz for some reason there are too many fics about it so like please remember that pit madness and the extent of it is just a fanon thing there is no proof of it happening for more than 5 mintues in canon and Jason was not the only one besides Ra's to use it but Cassandra has also been in the pit... So like yeah Jason did some fucked up shit post resurrection and he did it willingly no supernatural green pool was involved and its ok ❤️, like let him be his own person)

That went majorly off tangent,,, anyways also Tim was never abused physically or otherwise by his parents, they neglected him and child abandonment too for sure (ALSOOOO He spent more thanhalf of his school life in boarding school so it probably won't count as child abandonment but I dont know if its canon to main universe so I'm just putting it out there)

Adding to that is a fanfic issue that is around the potrayal of him in fics where Jason didnt die or wouldn't die and Tim joined the family early, most of those are pretty harmless and wholesome and this is not the critique of those writers so don't take personally but idk how it got so polarising and popular that Tim was a tiny kid and when he and Jason met younger (most fics I've read were from 3rd pov or Jason's pov) and in most of them it is stated that Tim is smaller for his age and Jason mistakes him for a younger age which just doesnt make sense. Like it would be one thing for someone else like Dick or Bruce to make that assumption and entirely different for Jason cuz CANONICALLY Jason was shorter at 15 than Tim was at 13 and it makes sense cuz Jason was malnourished which resulted in stunted growth rate, so like you're telling me that Jason at 15 saw 13 year old Tim and assumed he was 9 like it just doesnt make sense to me

And look this may be seen as nitpicks (and it probably is) but if it was in smaller quantity it could be ignorable but its everywhere and my patience is not endless and I'm fucking tired of him.

Also just to throw that in that all the bulleted points while in themselves alone may seem annoying but harmless, arent all of them together as fanon perception of him just infantalising him overall like its not they're true or anything...

Like lets be real Tim was just a blatant robin self insert, he was 13 when he went to a grieving father whos son was recently murdered and basically blackmailed him into making him robin cuz he thought "Batman needs a Robin" like dude you're 13... also can you imagine how Bruce must have felt in situation like but I dont think blaming Tim for this is right cuz he was a child and he didn't know better

Glorifying a white, rich (because yes he was rich enough to be neighbours with Wayne) character and demeaning and villanising a person of color and a dead poor person (cant keep track of how many times there's implied or outright said that Jason's death is his fault and how Tim's much smarter than Jason and better than him despite having no street smarts on him and being a trust fund baby)

Howevere, it'll be incredibly in poor taste to say that those weren't rooted in racism and classism [because they were] and its not Tim's fault his writers were disgusting but it is furthered and accepted and preached in fanon so like that's no excuse imo

Also if we include him with Robins he is not that special like he dont stick out ... and he terribly lacks any creativity and imagination like he took the mantle of robin and then red robin which like he didnt think through.

And like I'm not dismissing his trauma from attempts on his death but he was robin for 3-4 years before Jason tried to kill him I'm plenty sure he's used to his life being in danger comes with job description and if he didnt want that.. well nobody asked him he served himself on silver platter to be traumatised so yeah

So yeah fanon tim is my number one enemy and idc about him in canon and if you disagree with this please make your own post

This was a long vent of a short(lmao) list of just things that bother me

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bcbdrums · 5 months

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Given the fact that we were talking about our perceptions of certain kinds of ships in regards to Stein and how they suit or do not suit his character, how do you feel about smut/the relationship dynamics within Stein x character smut fics?

All righty then...! Here comes a very long rambling of my headcanons about Stein, his two primary relationships, and his relationship with those deeper intimacies. This takes some turns before it gets to the main point but well, I love talking about this man. Extremely long post under the cut.

Also - there are two blogs I tag at the very end of this post - you two feel free to ignore all my ramblings, just know I praise you both at the end and I still re-read your Soul Eater stories VERY regularly.

I'm truthfully still trying to reorganize my thoughts on this specific topic because 1) I have listened to many a headcanon from others on the subject and I always try to give validity to their thoughts even when they differ from mine, and 2) I've also read tons of smut fic with Stein out of sheer desperation for...well, Stein fic. (Come on Stein fandom where you at? Write me some gen fic too, lol)

I have not read too many fics of him with Marie cuz those always contain manga spoilers so I'm skipping those for now until I finish reading (exactly halfway through!). So what I've read is mostly Stein/Spirit smuts and just a couple with Marie, and I want to say….almost zero?? I think zero of those fics (and boy I've read plenty) have "hit the spot" in terms of what I would want for a Stein smut. They're good stories, in some cases great stories, well-written and thoughtfully conceived, but they're not fitting my headcanons and interpretations of who I see onscreen (and who I see in the manga so far).

All that said now… Some of my own relevant headcanons for him, and then I'll get more into fic of others.

I go back and forth toying with the idea that Stein experimented with intimacy just a little as a teen. He's not immune to puberty and hormones; he's human whether he likes it or not, which isn't to say mind over matter doesn't work for him. (Clearly it does, in staving off madness among other things.) But he's a scientist. He's curious. And I can see him justifying an experiment or two in his teen years. But they would in fact be just that, experiments. It's still a big maybe. I can't say for certain he would, it's the sort of thing like…if all the dots line up just right, he'd attempt it. If not, he wouldn't. And it would only be with those two people: Marie and/or Spirit. He doesn't trust anyone else enough. (Yes, I'm on board with the popular fanon that Marie was one of his other weapon partners after Spirit.)

Another teen headcanon... I can also easily see a sort of angsty distraction possibility for him. When he loses Spirit to Kami, I can see him getting into a "romantic" relationship with Marie as sheer distraction, and even misguided retaliation. Spirit "cheated" on him with another meister and abandoned him, so why shouldn't he do the same with another weapon? Which sucks for Marie but well she's not healthy about relationships any more than Stein or Spirit are. But this is just another sort of maybe-thought; another situation where all the dots would have to line up just right for him to go for it. But I can see it, no question, just like the prior thought.

As for Stein as an adult, at the point we see him in the show… While I think relationally he and Spirit have the most interesting dynamic to explore, the one he shows more openness toward is Marie. It's clear that he cares for her. And he doesn't fully understand that either. Now I don't think he wants to get into bed with her, or marry her, or anything traditional to a romance. But I also don't think Marie is going anywhere. Thinking post-anime now…. Unless he gives her a sign that there is nothing between them, I think she's staying put. But sadly for her, I think there is something between them... Sadly because, Stein doesn't know what it is, and it's not "love" the way that Marie wants it. It's just something he's unfamiliar with. Meanwhile she's devoted to him, poor woman.

Now, end of the anime… Let's talk about this…. Marie helps him back to sanity with her healing wavelength. But…then he's just "okay"? No he isn't. Look at that man. His dark circles are darker, his eyes are more haunted. That man has been living off madness and cigarettes for weeks. When is the last time he ate anything? Showered? Legitimately got any sleep?? How he's even standing up let alone fighting Medusa is beyond me, and then he performs freaking major surgery and then waltzes into the death room afterward like he's fine. Because...that's who Stein is.

Stein will fight until he is incapable of fighting anymore, to serve those he loves. Yes I said loves. And it is agonizing how much he strives to show his love for others, and it's something he doesn't even realize he has within him. He thinks he can't understand love? It's because he feels it so deeply and passionately it's beyond definition. Part of this however I'm also certain is motivated from his deep desire for purpose as an adult. The manga shows that aspect of his character even more-so than the anime (in what I've read so far). That man is desperate for purpose and to belong somewhere, with someone. He can't escape his human nature even if he doesn't understand it, can't define it, and even though it drives him crazy all on its own…

So bringing this back to Marie… End of the anime. I don't think Marie is leaving. She's gonna stay, help nurse Stein back to health and sanity despite his pretending he's fine (or perhaps even sheer ignorance of his condition), and Stein…is gonna be confused the whole dang time about his feelings for Marie. He knows he feels something but he has no idea what it is or how to process it. But "love" in the romantic sense he doesn't possibly consider, because well...his conceptions of that sort of thing aren't based in anything healthy (see: Spirit's relationships).

So yeah… She's not leaving. He won't reject her attentions because he does care about her, just not in a way he understands and also not in the way she wants. And as she starts to realize that he has some kind of feeling for her, I think she'd turn up the romance and she'd make a move on him. OR…she'd play the extremely...long...patient game, and wait for him to make a move on her, when it's within his comfort zone. And let me be clear… This man still does not know what love is in this traditional sense, does not understand love. He knows what physical attraction and hormones are and darn him he can't shake those either, but as an adult he wouldn't act impulsively on them nor would he confuse them with love. Stein is the ultimate master of mind over matter. If he were to sleep with her, it would be a choice; a decision he makes consciously and deliberately. I see this within the realms of possibility. But if he chooses it himself, if he's the one who makes that decision simply out of his wanting to…it would be a long, long time that that woman is waiting for him. But I do think it possible. The question is simply, how long will she wait. And she's also the type to try to stir things up (see: her behavior toward Joe in the manga). So who knows when they may end up in bed together... These dots are more complicated to align than those of his teenage years. And if Marie made the move first...I think he'd accept it. Because, see again, his wanting to belong with someone, and he knows he feels something different with Marie.

As for Spirit, well... Stein sees that Spirit likes women. And Stein sees that Spirit can't commit. I think Stein "loves" Spirit more than he loves Marie. First love, young love... Spirit is the relationship of his life, even though that's yet another thing he cannot possibly understand. I think that while part of him, the mad obsessive part, and the curious part, does want to be close to Spirit in the intimate way…it's not out of a healthy desire or even typical motivations. It would come from a desire to possess, from his deeply human but inexplicable yearning to be closer to the one he loves even though it's not the right type of love for that type of intimacy. Not really sure Spirit would be all-in if Stein were to make the move... I think Spirit would take persuading. It's another circumstance where all the dots have to line up just right, and in this case probably more while caught up in madness than in sanity. Because as previously mentioned… In his right mind, Stein knows that Spirit likes women and more importantly that Spirit cannot commit. And he's ironically smart enough to know not to attempt a traditional human romance with someone who cannot commit. I don't think Stein would himself attempt intimacy with Spirit in his right mind at all, unless something happened to make him utterly desperate not to lose the man... Another instance of, all those dots have to connect.

But ugh, the angst. Spirit abandoned him after five years... Stein is not going to willingly subject himself to possible heartbreak again. Plus, he does not think Spirit has forgiven him for the "experiments." I think he thinks Spirit only hangs around him now as an adult as his handler, despite desperately wanting his friendship again. But I think he figures it's a lost cause so he just takes what is offered and never pursues more.

Okay but before I digress further into my endless thoughts about Stein's and Spirit's relationship (I'll do another post for that maybe), back to the point of your question.

I am really not one for labels, partially because I don't understand them but also because I think the spectrum is just so deep and too much defies definition. But if I were to label him, I guess I'd go with...gray ace with demi leanings…?

The man is driven only by curiosity, about anything and everything. But the level of intimacy we're talking about is more than he ever wants to trust anyone with. It's always gotta be on his terms, and more often than not…his terms would be unhealthy.

So let's talk about what shows up in fanfic, since that was what the original question was about. And once again, I like to lend validity to everyone's interpretation. Just because it isn't mine doesn't mean it's wrong or shouldn't exist. But you did ask about MY thoughts, so that's what I'm sharing here.

Once again, I've barely touched Stein/Marie fic because I'm avoiding manga spoilers. In the one or two I've seen, he comes across as not connecting emotionally in the typical way, but knowing that there is indeed something different about being with her. He knows she cares about him, and he cares in return. But it doesn't come across as anything intimate on his side of it. This isn't a characterization I particularly like, because Stein as an adult... As I said, I think he'd choose that intimacy if and when he wants it. In the stories, it comes across more as him just doing her a favor, just going along. It doesn't sit right. But like I said, that's only two stories. For other Stein/Marie, I reserve opinion for later.

Stein/Spirit... Okay. I've noticed a great many commonalities in the fics I've read. And this isn't a taste or preference thing; like I said I have devoured almost every smut fic just in desperation for any fanfic of them. Would prefer more gen fic less smut personally, but anyway.

Most fics have Stein in the dominant role, Spirit in the submissive role. I understand that interpretation but it's not how I see them. I see them as equals if they were to get into that type of intimacy. There is often a lot of bloodplay, frequently madness on Stein's part, major instances of non-con, pet play, BDSM, sometimes light cannibalism... It all suggests an impersonal and unhealthy relationship most of the time, which again...is not at all how I see them if they were to become a couple. Could such things come about? Unhealthily, possibly. But darn me and my desire for happy endings.

These two men are so broken, that if they were to become a healthy couple...I feel like it would be slow, cautious...extremely hesitant. There is extreme distrust on both sides, and also misconceptions about how the other feels. Which...I will save that analysis for later. Focusing back on smut fic.

I have seen only a few that touch on the give and take in a trusting relationship (all by the same author) that come closest to what I feel is accurate to the characters onscreen as I see them, but still the emphasis is too much on lust. It still isn't hitting the spot for me due to a lack of that relational development... Make no mistake, the stories are great, but I personally am hoping for something much deeper.

In my view, Stein just does not seek out physical intimacy in that way. I don't think he can fully escape the innate human need for touch, but in terms of a drive to get into bed with anyone... I think the occasional human desire for it crops up, and he easily ignores it/packs it away because it's not useful to him. It doesn't bother him. He doesn't think about it.

So this is where that...gray-ace, demi vibe comes into play for my view of him. Talking about Stein here as an adult and in control of himself, not consumed by madness... This is I supposed a bit of a summation of my thoughts.

If he did get into a relationship with anyone (and again I think his only choices are Spirit and Marie), it would not be based on the physical at all. I also don't think he would rush into any relationship. It would be a long process before he trusted the person enough to consider them a romantic partner. And really, we could get away from the word romance entirely... Life-partner is a better word, in Stein's case. If the person wanted physical intimacies, I think he would be responsive to that. The other person would be in the lead, but in no way dominating. It would have to be an equal trust thing or else Stein would nope out hard. Stein would gradually learn what it is he likes physically, and how to give his partner what they want. He can come to enjoy it because this is his life-partner, the one he belongs with, the one who needs him and is part of his purpose. But again...the physical is not something that drives him at all. Not in how I see him portrayed onscreen or in the manga.

So, overall, in my point of view nearly all smut fics miss the mark. Now...the stories I've seen where I think the physical intimacy is nailed don't even get to smut. Those are the stories by @asymmetryestablished (AO3 NothingSoDivine) and their characterizations of Stein and Spirit defy description in any words I have. The other author who nails it is @wispforever (same on AO3) and the closest to physical intimacy they get is dancing, but my gosh still the characterizations are utter perfection. I will be re-reading y'all's Stein/Spirit stories forever.

I hope I did in fact answer your question, but overall, I was delighted to just spill out so many of my thoughts about Stein even if in summary form. Yes this was a summary... Okay. I'm done. Thanks.

#soul eater #franken stein #spirit albarn #marie mjolnir #stein #spirit #death scythe #crossstitch #steinspirit #spiritstein #steinmarie #stein x marie #stein x spirit #spirit x stein #headcanons #ask answer

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