"I can say whatever I want about my abuser. If they don't like what I'm saying, they shouldn't have abused me."

Yeah. Your abuser. Not an entire demographic who had nothing to do with it.

Feel free to call your abuser a monster, a douchebag, an asshole, a piece of shit, or any other insult you can think of. You can even wish they would die if their abuse was bad enough.

But when you call your abuser's actions "what narcissists do", you're not just demonizing your abuser. You're demonizing people who never did anything to you.

On top of that, you're giving a free pass to those who have the same patterns as your abuser but have the privilege of being able to do it in a way that society considers normal. For everything your "narcissist" did to you, there are many similar patterns that society normalizes on a regular basis.

Oh yeah make sure neglected people get love until that neglected person is a fucking narcissist. Cause all narcissists are bad. Everything I do is intentionally manipulative or maybe they'll say I'm not actually a narcissist and are just confused or supporting them cause I've been made to feel guilty. I've been on both sides. People will believe I'm a narcissist and so therefore I'm abusive or people will not believe I'm a narcissist cause I'm too nice and just getting caught up in narcissists manipulating me to support them.

I hate the idea that my self image is not by my choice. I will always be what OTHERS perceive me as. I have always been that and it will continue to be that. People will either see someone that can't do any wrong or someone that can only do wrong. Like stfu I am a person! I can do good and bad! I have a past of being toxic and harmful esp as a teenager cause I was a fucking mentally fucked teen still in an abusive situation.

I just. I dunno. Im waiting on food so I'm very like just ranty about everything and anything. But like. Stfu. Stfu stfu stfu stfu stfu. If anyone else is needy and needs attention or reassurance then it's fine. But I have had it demonized since my fucking childhood and had my fucking meltdowns demonized as being intentionally manipulative!!! I WAS A FIVE YEAR OLD AUTISTIC CHILD STFU!!!!!

And people praising empathy as being good piss me off. Cause you know what else can also have hypoempathy? AUTISM. Low empathy is not just an "evil" personality disorder thing. Anyone can be anywhere on the scale of empathy. And it doesn't fucking matter. And anyone can be capable of good or bad. It has literally nothing to do with narcissism or any disorder.

Like wtf are anti narcissists gonna fucking do when they realize theyve done harm??? Cause you know what being someone believing in narc abuse did to me?! It made me believe that i was justified as a victim of narcissists so therefore I couldn't be wrong in my trauma responses.

Yeah. Accepting im a narcissist did way more for helping my relationships by allowing me to understand and communicate my needs than believing in narc abuse and calling my parents narcissists ever fucking did. Wtf are they gonna do when they're told about the harm they've done??? Not even related to narc abuse. I would have horrible episodes and defended myself cause I wasn't like my abusive "narcissistic" parents. And all it did was lead to more fights and more episodes and my friend couldn't help cause they were dealing with trauma responses too (people pleasing, believing it was okay what I did or that she deserved it even when I told her not to say or believe that, it's a very lengthy explanation required thing.)

Anyone and everyone is capable of good and bad and is capable of harming others. Whether it's full on abuse, even worse things, or just being insensitive and thoughtless. Focusing so much on the big bad narcissists will only continue to focus on this "us vs them" mentality that completely negates any sort of nuance and ignores the fact that harmful people, abusers, and even the worst of humanity is ALLOWED by society. It isn't a prevalence of narcissists, it is fucking bigotry. And it is everywhere. And it allows abuse to be normalized.

Big list of things I been thinking on. Fuck fuck fuck. I'm already fucking stressed and my parents won't stfu so I can think and type. Disorganized speech, semiverbal, can't thinky think.

hey maybe, when people with npd tell you not to call abusers and rapists and the like narcissistic just because they're horrible people, view it not as us defending abusers or trying to control how victims talk about their trauma, and more like i as a survivor don't wanna be fucking put in the same category as an abuser or rapist for no fucking reason because you can't bring it upon yourself to spell the word egotistical

narc abuse truthers really say "My ex was a narcissist!" no honey, no. we love ourselves too much to date you.

A guide to NPD for anyone who doesn't understand it!

What is NPD?

NPD, or narcissistic personality disorder, is a mental illness in the cluster B personality disorder category.

NPD usually stems from childhood abuse or other unhealthy childhood situations. In my case, abuse.

What are the symptoms?

Symptoms of NPD include an unstable sense of self, prioritizing yourself, having unstable relationships, having low/no empathy, and depression/self hatred.

These can be improved upon, but disordered thoughts will likely remain for most.

Can pwNPD have healthy relationships?

Yes, with effort and work. Plenty can have healthy and successful relationships. (like me, for example, in a loving relationship with my boyfriend)

We have a to be a bit more aware of how we treat others, but it helps when both the person with NPD and the partner set boundaries with each other. With communication, we can be great partners.

And yes, we can feel love and care about our partner(s). Empathy ≠ love. Empathy ≠ compassion.

Why does the term "Narcissistic abuse" harm pwNPD?

Because of the name, anything said about "narcissists" is also associated with us, even if you weren't talking about NPD. If you were, that's just blatant ableism.

Many of also call ourselves narcissists either just as a descriptor or to reclaim it.

Other terms like emotional abuse, gaslighting, and plenty others describe the same thing without ableist roots. Please, speak out about your abuse, but avoid using ableist terms.

But my therapist/psychiatrist uses the term "narcissistic abuse," how can it be ableist?

Sadly, ableism isn't that uncommon from medical professionals. Plenty use terms like "narcissistic abuse" and other ableist terms.

Why not just advocate to change the name of NPD?

Even if the name changed, it would still be ableist. We have another cluster B disorder that got a name change that we can look to for example of what happens.

You used to be able to be clinically diagnosed as a "psychopath," which has since been changed to ASPD. However, people still use the terms "psychopath" and "sociopath" to refer to ASPD. All the stigma around those words still applies to them.

I imagine similar would happen if we changed the name of NPD. It wouldn't matter, we'd still be called narcissists. And the term would still be ableist because it would still hurt us.

At the end of the day, the only person truly suffering from NPD, surviving NPD, and feeling hurt by NPD is the narcissist who has this condition.

With that being said, #surviving narcissism, #surviving npd, #narc survivor are our tags now.

Abusive parents literally look at any problem in society and believe that it's caused by children not being physically abused enough.

Police officers literally believe that it's their right to kill people for disobeying them.

And these people find supporters very easily.

It's very clear that abuse isn't caused by personality disorders. If an abuser has a personality disorder, it's a completely irrelevant trait, just like their height or hair color.

oh so narcissistic abuse isn't real?

Then explain to me why my mom's best friends when I was 13 was a group of 15 year old mean girls who would openly bully me in front of her, but she desperately needed the literal children to think she was cool so she'd bully me with them and would like, store up information about my week like how long I engaged in my special interests or what kind of stimming I was doing and then she'd turn up to youth group in her bedazzled skinny jeans, walk right past me like she didn't just drive me here and sit on the table with these teenage girls with a "you'd never guess what Cordelia got up to this week." And the other adults who ran the youth group were really confused and obviously really uncomfortable with this 40 year old woman using her role as a trusted adult in the group to bully her autistic tween daughter but also the situation was so weird nobody got involved till the girls parents did and asked why a 40 year old woman was cultivating a "special relationship" with their kids but she was convinced she was the victim in the situation and she was being punished by these parents for caring too much about the youth group and she would vent TO ME about how mean these other mom's were being to her and how unfair it was and this whole time we were showing up every week, she'd bully the fuck out of me for 2 or 3 hours then we'd go home and she'd switch up on me and tell me that I too could have a chance to sit with the girls who she was literally helping to make my life hell but I just had to start being normal and then she'd buy me a milkshake or something as if that made everything she'd done all evening OK.

Is that just regular abuse or do you think there was maybe some other factors at play there that makes that situation a bit different?

genuinely the people who have hurt me most in my life were empaths who "meant well" and "did this because they cared about me" and "were worried about me". on the other hand i have a narcissist friend who loves me very much and treats me with respect. they've made mistakes in the past (passive aggressive towards me and manipulative towards another person) but are trying hard to improve. you really can spin any normal human desire and make it seem demonic just based on the assumption that this person is inherently evil. like "i'm so glad my friends forgave me and we can keep having fun times together" ➡️ "yesss they're back under my control and i can abuse them"

so many people are just totally incapable of nuance like it's complex yknow. like. people with personality disorders deserve love. that shouldn't be a bold statement. those with extreme attachments etc aren't trying to manipulate you from some distant place of villainous intent. theyre jsut. feeling things they can't control. but also if you don't have the emotional capacity to handle being someone's friend after a long pattern of problems, you don't have to sacrifice your mental well-being for them. you're not good for them either if you need distance like that. just also don't make it about all people with that disorder lmao. use critical thinking skills challenge

(obviously also if you don't work out well with someone else due to your emotional needs clashing, tell them explicitly why you have to distance yourself and don't just ghost them)

anyway two of my bestest friends are personality disorder and just silly little guys. everyone in the world, including empaths, is capable of harm and should strive for self improvement.

/not talking to your blog when i say "you" i'm just shouting into the void

i seem to have forgotten to answer this one during my yearly trauma rot, oops

Abuse comes in waves. So does pain.

You spent months being civil with each other, kind even. They do things for you, buy you clothes, groceries, say nice things and ask about your day. And you start to forget. You start to feel guilty. Why did I hate them? Why was I angry? Why did I want to leave? That was awfully mean of me. They need me. If I leave, they'll be all alone.

Then it all comes crashing down. One little thing lights up the flames and sparks a reaction. It happens fast, but feels like it lasts a lifetime. They say "things they didn't really mean", they "let anger get the best of them", and you're at the receiving end, scared, alone and not able to react.

And you start to remember. You place this memory with all the others, like a bunch of crystal ornaments on a shelf. You start noticing the patterns. You even make excuses for them. I was too loud, too aggressive, too mean. I deserved it. I deserve this.

Hours later, when you're safe and sound in your room, the reaction finally hits. You cry and sob, you want to scream but know you can't. You want to leave but have nowhere to go. You have no choice but to stay put and feel the pain. The pain from this moment and all the others that preceeded it. The pain from all the chances you had to leave but didn't take. The pain from all the instances you believed they changed.

And you know, once they wake up, it'll be like it never happened. Kind words and kind gestures, all over again. And you have no choice but to play along, otherwise who knows what might happen.

Every week. Every month. Every year. A new little crystal ornament for my collection. A new memory for me to obsess over and try to prove to myself that it wasn't that bad, that I barely got hurt, that it could've been worse.

I wonder how long it'll take for the next ornament to arrive. I wonder if I'll have enough space for it on the shelve.

"Narcissists shouldn't be allowed to have children."

There's no reason for a statement like that.

If you're worried about narcissists abusing children, just say what actions you're worried about narcissists doing and say that people who do those actions shouldn't be allowed to have children. For example,

Those who want power over their children and no accountability shouldn't be allowed to have children.

Those who see their children as property and not as people shouldn't be allowed to have children.

Those who think it's ever okay to hit their children shouldn't be allowed to have children.

Those who destroy their children's belongings shouldn't be allowed to have children.

Those who believe in "as long as you live under my roof you will follow my rules" shouldn't be allowed to have children.

Those who believe in "I buy things for you so you owe me" shouldn't be allowed to have children.

Those who can't handle criticism from their children shouldn't be allowed to have children.

Those who can't handle their children not conforming to their expectations shouldn't be allowed to have children.

Those who care more about how their children make them look than about their children's well being shouldn't be allowed to have children.

Of course, you won't do that, because that would apply to neurotypical parents who do those things all the fucking time. You don't actually want to protect children from abuse. You only want to single out narcissists while giving typical authoritarian parents a free pass.

what also gets me about people being so adamant about using the word "narcissist" or some form of it to describe shitty people is...there are other words. I was just watching a drew gooden video and he said "If you knowingly take part in something that has the potential to put other people in harm's way and you still do it cause it's kind of fun for you, you are selfish and you suck." (It's the gender reveal party.)

Just seeing how many commentary YouTubers, especially more leftist ones that talk about the heavier side of things like misogynists and seeing them use the term narcissistic or delusional is just. We HAVE other words we can use! We HAVE USED other words for years before narcissistic became a big trend to say and narcissistic abuse really ramped up as a pop psychology trend.

It is literally SO easy to use other words. You can Google similar words. Selfish, self centered, self righteous, egotistical, arrogant, entitled. One of the best words I find is probably entitled. Because a lot of bigots and misogynists and shit that usually get delusional and narcissistic thrown at them are really more self centered, arrogant, and entitled. Self interested, self obsessed. Especially since for abusers, misogynists, other shitty people, the entitled comes from the fact it is NORMALIZED!!!!! It is not a bunch of narcissists harming people, it is a society, a world, that has normalized this behaviour. They are entitled, they are abusive, they are selfish, they are cruel. There are so many OTHER WORDS to describe your abuse, to describe shitty people. Just call them abusers or bigots for fucks sake. And even if some delusional people may get roped into it cause they're vulnerable, typically it is a lot of people who are INTENTIONALLY doing it. It is normalized, it is allowed!

All we narcissists ask is that you not use a word that demonizes us. "There's a difference" yet other people say there isn't, other people say NPD isn't even fucking real, other people say pwNPD ARE abusive. If we used any kind of other word for the more "talked about" disorders, there would be a problem. We ask that you change it, we ask that you use other words, we ask that you not further add to the stigma. The same stigma that BPD deals with, that autistic people deal with, that any neurodivergent person deals with. The stigma and demonization is something ALL neurodivergencies have fucking faced!!! It may have moved away from demonization for a lot of disorders, but there ARE people that DO still believe it.

We fucking ask you literally use any other word. And you refuse to. You refuse to listen to us. You refuse to believe us when we tell you the harm it has and how it actually prevents us from finding resources. You say "of course a narcissist would want that." You see it as an attack on you and your trauma. You are throwing trauma victims at risk of abuse under the bus because you want to feel vindicated in your own trauma. You completely ignore any critical thinking of what we say to turn it against us, to ignore us, to bring up your own trauma as a defense point. Yes, you were abused by someone and it is terrible that happened. So were we!!! My abusive mom probably has NPD, but it did not affect the abuse I faced, it only add strains in our relationship outside of the abuse that still affect us to this day.

It is SO easy to find another word, to literally just listen to us, to not throw us under the same fucking bus. To not group us in with abusers and rapists and child sex offenders and murderers. Would you fucking like to be compared to your abuser? Pretty sure you fucking wouldn't. So why is it okay to do to us?

Some people will never listen. No matter what I say, it does not matter. As with any kind of thinking along these lines. But for those that are still reachable, please. Listen to us. And what would you even do if you found yourself having NPD traits? Wouldn't it be terrifying to see that in yourself? Because I sure as hell thought it was. It made me hate myself and further believe that I could NEVER do any wrong because I wasn't like my narcissistic abusers and worsened my relationship difficulties. A fair bit of narcissists on here had also fallen into that same hole. It doesn't heal you. It keeps you angry, scared, upset. It makes you want to hurt them back. And that will not heal you. It'll keep you defensive. It's keeping you in a victim mentality and preventing healing.

To the ones that ARE reachable, I hope you can learn something from my posts, from posts I reblog, or from any other posts. It starts with narcissists and "psychopaths" (antisocials), but it is the same place the stigma of every neurodivergency and mental disorder stems from. It's why other disorders may still get demonization from some ableists. That a lot of autistic experiences were based around how it affected OTHER PEOPLE like "think of their mom having that autistic kid :(" it is not anything new. It is the same ableism and stigma. It is less demonized for other disorders now, focusing more on treating it as no big deal, ignoring the actual difficult symptoms of such disorders (like if you have poor hygiene, people will judge you regardless), or even infantilization. There IS still stigma, but the stigma was once the same as us, demonization. It comes from the same place. It's things said about other disorders still today even if it is rarer. It's just more well known for the "scary" personality and psychotic disorders since there is a big push to destigmatize things like depression, anxiety, OCD, autism.

Do not throw us under the bus. It will do nothing. It is the same fucking stigma, the same fucking arguments. Like gay people throwing trans people under the bus, they're called the same things even if it seems like they aren't. It comes from the same bigotry, the same place of hatred.

It is not new, it is not different, it just is more common for personality disorders, psychotic disorders, and schizospec disorders. So when we bring up these things, mention how using the term directly associated with a disorder in the DSM V and how it prevents us getting help, how using the term narcissistic DOES correlate to NPD, please fucking listen.

Cause nothing will ultimately benefit you for continuing down that rabbit hole. Narcissistic abuse believers don't help victims of abuse, those articles and questions don't help you heal. It keeps you angry how anyone could do that, it takes advantage of your vulnerability and desire to find meaning and logic out of it. The reality is, you may never know why or at least not until you are away from the abuse.

We are trauma victims as well. We are still at risk of abuse because of our disorder. I would genuinely stay with an abuser just for the sake of narc supply regardless of how they hurt me if I did not have a good support system. For our "toxic" traits, we cannot work on them without help and the idea of narcissistic abuse pushes stigma further which prevents us from even finding free online resources, let alone if we actually tried to seek any fucking help.

Narcissistic abuse is not real and it will never be. Please fucking include us in "mental health matters" and the push for destigmatizing disorders. We are fucking humans that need help. And even if we were all toxic and selfish hypothetically, removing the ability to find resources or get help is NOT the way to go.

Even when I believed in narcissistic abuse, I would search to find answers on why I aligned with NPD if I wasn't an abuser or a bad person. I was terrified to even suspect it despite how much attention and love and supply I needed and how that applied to the very essence of my being. Even when I examined my own actions, all I found was treating it as if they're the utter worst of humanity. Even with my toxic and unhealthy acts because I was a fucking traumatized teen with no experience for relationships of any kind especially not healthy ones, I could not find answers or help. And all that did was reassure me that I WAS the good person, that I was JUSTIFIED in my toxic desires because I was traumatized. It did not help me with my emotional regulation, it worsened it.

Even if narcissists WERE all abusers or toxic and bad, they deserve fucking help and a chance to be able to see their actions in a better light. Some people may never change, but plenty will if given resources and actual professional help. The idea of narcissistic abuse refuses that and just demonizes it and NOBODY wants to be demonized, NOBODY wants to believe they're a bad person. The term narcissistic abuse and the environment and community surrounding it is toxic. It always will be. That is inherently what it is about. It kept me terrified that someone might call me an abusive narcissist because of my emotional difficulties, that someone would take me out of context and turn me into a monster like my family had done my entire fucking life. It keeps you defensive, it keeps you scared, it keeps you mistrustful, it keeps you in those trauma responses. It does not fucking help victims find peace of mind or heal. It keeps you triggered.

Also NPD isn't just a single disorder on its own. It's comorbid or the person could be ND in other ways. BPD + NPD, it has some genetic factors so a narcissistic parent may increase likelihood you have it, there are DID systems with it. You are not just throwing people with purely ONLY NPD under the bus, but whoever else may have it that may also fall under many other categories. I'm autistic and have NPD, I'm a system with NPD, I'm schizospec and psychotic with NPD. I have ADHD and NPD. They may not be directly related and comorbid, but I do still fall under these other categories. So autistics throwing people with NPD under the bus does nothing for the narcissists that are also fucking autistic. So by throwing narcissists under the bus, you are throwing a LOT of people with that disorder that also have other forms of neurodivergency under the bus as well. And the stigma all comes from the same place anyway.

People with npd: Hey can we not be treated like abusers just for our disorder and be treated like actual human beings instead of monsters?

'Narc abuse' mfs: Is this an excuse to trauma dump on a complete stranger who is most likely a trauma survivor already?

they make us sound kinda badass

Man it must be such an easy world to live in where every abuser you meet is an "evil narc". You don't even need to fucking think about how to actually protect yourself. Just read a couple of pseudoscientific papers on how to "get the narc!!" half of which is just lies that will not work and half of which is advice on how to cause genuine psychological distress in anyone, not just pwNPD.

It must be so easy to live in the world where abuse comes from narcs alone or majorly narcs, even though the disorder is extremely rare. You can even lull yourself into thinking that “how to catch a narcissist” will secure you, which it won’t.