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ftmtftm · 6 months

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something i wanted to ask, genuinely, is if you think the labels transmisogyny/misandry and the way theyre used can really be helpful

i personally think they can be but with how so many ppl try to frame it as "exclusive" forms of oppression just doesnt help at all. yes, transmisogyny does mainly happen to trans women/fems, but a lot of ppl refuse to believe it could also happen to trans men/mascs. and i believe it can go the same way with transmisandry as ive seen multiple ppl describe wut it is and see how it could be applied to trans women/fems. and that doesnt even acknowledge intersex ppl, whether theyre trans or not. i feel like labeling it in specific ways to say "this is an intersection of oppression" without going "this is an exclusive experience" is beneficial to all sides, but ppl try to gatekeep with labels like "tma" and "tme" and so on. its like saying a gay guy cant call themself a dyke bc "youre not a lesbian and therefore u cant reclaim that slur" even if theyve been called a dyke before. it really just feels like the labels of transmisogyny and transmisandry is used as a way to fuel the fires of oppression olympics by saying that "if ur a trans man u experience less oppression than a trans woman." and it seems to be mainly fueled by the idea of "woman (oppressed) + trans (oppressed) = really oppressed" whereas "man (not oppressed) + trans (oppressed) = not as oppressed" when its nothing like that.

its also incredibly hard to find Any information about transmisandry. i always see "trans men just have it/pass easier" and even other transphobic statements of how going on T makes trans men more aggressive and assertive. i feel like tumblr has been the only place ive seen any genuine discussion about transmisandry and even then its not great or very informative.

i believe that both transmisandry and transmisogyny should be acknowledged as real forms of oppression rather than being used as a way to oppress ppl further.

i dont wish to cause an argument as these r just my thoughts and i genuinely want to hear yours on it too

So the TL;DR my opinion sort of boils down to "Yes, I think they can be incredibly useful terms when used with intention and clarity of purpose" but there's a lot of nuance to that opinion. Basically though - I mostly agree with you on a conceptual level anon. I just wanted to write an essay.

(and also I don't fully address some things in this ask because frankly I'm burnt out and don't want to talk about them at the moment and I made this blog to talk about my special interests anyway. Sue me ‪¯\_(ツ)_/¯‬)

Something I've been noticing in my reading of Intersectional/trans-inclusive Feminist literature, combined with my engagement with trans activism, over the last few years is: We're all very, very afraid of talking about sexism right now and it absolutely makes sense why.

It makes sense because the conversation has been ground to dirt by TERFs constantly yelling about "sex-based oppression" as a means to be transmisogynist and degrade the womanhood of trans women. However the response to this has been deeply flawed in my opinion.

Instead of actually addressing sexism as it's own distinct form of oppression under an Intersectional lense, we've simply made a hard left into only discussing gender informed oppression and only legitimizing gender informed oppression in the form of misogyny. It's a very uninformed response in my opinion actually - but that also makes sense because it's currently very hard to be informed on general feminist theory and politics at the moment because Radical Feminism is a fucking plague.

In reality though, sexism and misogyny are two different forms of oppression that often overlap because gender and sex are different classes of identity that often overlap.

This degradation of language - both from TERFs conflating sex and gender and from Intersectionals/progressives separating the two so hard they don't even acknowledge sex - is what I think is part of the cause of this problem that is leaving trans men / trans mascs with a massive hole in our ability to discuss our experiences. And not just trans men either!!! It's also nonbinary and intersex people as well who are harmed by this void.

So that begs the question: How do we actually talk about sexism in an Intersectional Feminist, trans inclusive, capacity that combats Radical Feminist rhetoric on sexism?

And the answer? Is carefully, consciously, and in a manner that is aware of several different experiences within the nebulous concept of female identity.

I will actually be using the word "female" as a term a decent amount throughout this post. For the sake of this discussion I am defining "female" as anyone anyone who presently identifies as female due to their assigned sex as well as anyone who is socially treated/viewed as female due to their gender, legal, and/or medical statuses. In this post "female" is an umbrella term that includes cis women, trans men, trans women, nonbinary people, and intersex people who feel that definition applies to them in relation to their sex.

Because the fact of the matter is that Patriarchy and our society at large hate women and they hate people who are assigned female and they hate people who are female and those are distinct categories of people with a lot of overlap and a lot of differences.

Female identity is like venn diagram of sex informed experiences that cis women, trans women, trans men, nonbinary people, and intersex people all have a place in for various different reasons. It's a diverse category of experiences and this should be a touchstone for solidarity, not division in my opinion. The experiences and needs of one group don't inherently negate the experiences and needs of another similar group, even if they conflict, you know?

It's a concept I've actually adopted from disability activists, who often talk about the ways in which disability activism often has to address conflicting needs because sometimes some disabled people's needs are in direct conflict with each other!! Conflicting needs are not something unique to disability activism though.

Most groups and classes people have conflicting needs within themselves and I think there's a lot to be learned in gendered activism from disability activists in this regard. I think often in activist discussions a lot of people stop when situations stop impacting them directly instead of trying to find commonality and empathy with similar experiences. It's easy to have knee jerk reactions, it's harder to pause and contemplate.

So, let's actually contemplate transmisogyny and transandrophobia/transmisandry as terms for a moment.

Transmisogyny was coined as a term by Julia Serano in 2007 in her book The Whipping Girl and I do think it's incredibly useful for describing the ways in which transphobia (the broader oppression of trans individuals) intersects with misogyny (the broader oppression of women) in specific ways wrapped up into a specific term.

I've engaged in a lot of criticism of The Whipping Girl because, well, I think for just about every excellent idea Serano posits about the trans feminine experience she undercuts it with White Feminist rhetoric and simple "cis men and women are opposites therefore trans men and women are opposites" type rhetoric that harms her arguments more than helps them. HOWEVER! Serano herself even articulates that misogyny and transphobia may intersect in ways that impact nonbinary and trans masculine individuals differently from trans feminine individuals, and that additional language may be required to fill that gap in The Whipping Girl!!

So now there's a bit of a linguistically philosophical discussion to be had here on the function of language and what language we can actually use to fill the hole trans men experience with our language - which is also where we dive back into talking about concepts like conflicting needs and sexism.

When creating terminology (or jargon), one must take into account several things like clarity and context, which is why personally - I do not like the term "transmisandry" at all. I use it as a tag because I know some people prefer it as a term and I'd like my posts to reach that audience as well. Generally speaking though - I think any inclusion of "misandry" as a term will always be a nonstarter in most discussions on gender. It's much too loaded of a word because of it's association with the misogynistic actions of MRAs among several other semantic reasons.

An argument could, I think, be made for a term like "transsexism" which would describe the intersection of transphobia (the broader oppression of trans individuals) and sexism (the broader oppression of female individuals) but I think that is still too broad if we want to talk about trans masculine experiences specifically. (Though I do still think it may have contextual use as a term quite frankly - that's just beyond the scope of this post).

So? Then we come to transandrophobia and a conversation on misogynistic, sexist responses to masculinity in people society forcibly identified as "female women" under patriarchy.

I want to state that off the bat that I take a lot of issue with the way people dismiss trans men's experiences as just "general transphobia" or "default transphobia" because... Why are you automatically treating a man's experiences as the universal default? Especially when there are things based on the intersection of his manhood and marginalization that he experiences that women of the same marginalization don't?

I have this issue with most other conversations about the intersection of marginalized identity and manhood honestly. It actually really reeks of unconscious misogynist bias to me. But I digress, that's not the subject of this post.

I think a lot about Brandon Teena and the motivations for his murder. I think a lot about Lou Sullivan's diary entries about his loneliness and isolation with regard to being around trans women and lesbians - as well as his history fighting for his right to medical transition. I think about P. Carl's musings about the ways in which his entire community abandoned him once he came out as a trans man as opposed to a lesbian woman. I think about Irreversible Damage by Abigal Shrier and the way she manipulated - if I'm remembering correctly - YouTuber, Chase Ross into misleading interviews that skewed his words and stories to attempt to "prove" her points about how "our girls" are being manipulated into transgenderism via social contagion spread through platforms like YouTube.

I think about the ways in which trans mascs - particularly those on HRT - actively avoid medical care because of the deeply gendered nature of gynecological care and also because we are treated like medical freaks and abominations when we do try to seek that care. I think about the ways our bodies are inherently, deeply impacted by the overturning of Roe V. Wade and how our decisions to not carry children via abortion or hysterectomy - or our desire to carry children - are met with the phenomenon of medical misogyny like any other woman or female individual but in a way that also explicitly intersects with our transness.

I think about the ways in which Patriarchal society sees my "female" body in direct opposition to my identity as a "man" and how that is something that needs to be "corrected" back into "female womanhood" via rape and assault. I think about my own corrective assault a lot. I think about how the 2015 National Trans Survey actually found higher self reported instances with sexual assault in trans men than in trans women. I think about how I personally see that as a touchstone of solidarity with my lesbian siblings and especially with my other butch siblings who also have their expressions of masculinity treated as deviancy that deserves corrective action.

I apologize for diverting into less of an academic musing into prose and also for diverging from the subject of this ask directly into a much larger essay - but I am simply so tired of trying to say that I and other trans masculine people are people worthy of having our own language for our own experiences instead of just being dismissed as a privileged class - quite literally on the basis of our own oppression.

Especially when people use the words of someone like Julia Serano to say we don't deserve that language when she herself posited that maybe we should have it. Especially when Kimberlé Crenshaw - the woman who created the theory of Intersectionality that Serano is attempting to engage with in The Whipping Girl - has stated that one of the goals of Intersectionality is to create language for and give voice to marginalized identities that otherwise are not given language and voice.

So - What do you call it when trans masculine people are explicitly targeted on the basis of their trans masculinity? What do you call that intersection of sexism, misogyny, and transphobia that misgenders and attacks trans masculinity explicitly? Because that isn't "general transphobia" - that is transphobia motivated by a Patriarchal desire for control over the broader "female identity" that society is seeing as "too masculine".

It's trans-andro-phobia. Transphobia targeted at a particular group of trans individuals on the basis of their masculinity in a way that intersects with a sexist, misogynist, Patriarchal desire to control perceived/forced female identity and the subsequent interpersonal and social ramifications that come alongside that systemic abuse.

Focus, intention, and clarity of purpose.

---

I do want to add that there is absolutely something to be said about the fact that these conversations are all extremely White at the moment.

Radical Feminism is a deeply White (and White Supremacist) movement. Conversations on Trans Feminist theory in general are still deeply White as well. Julia Serano is very much a White Trans Feminist, and as such most responses to her work by other White trans people tend to be, well, very White.

I myself am even contributing to the prevalence of Whiteness in the conversation because even though I am Ashkenazi I am also still White. I might be informed by and am actively using concepts formed by Black Women and Ethnic Minority Women as the basis of my own theories, but that doesn't erase the context of my own race in this conversation either.

I really do not want that to be lost upon people, especially other White people. A racialized context matters in this conversation because Race and Gender really cannot be fully separated from each other in conversations about power and systemic oppression.

Bonus TL;DR - Read The Will to Change and Feminism is for Everybody by bell hooks. Read Audre Lorde. Read Kimberlé Crenshaw. Read Leslie Feinberg and Judith Butler. Read María Lugones. Learn the concepts they are presenting and then also learn how to apply those concepts in a consciousness and self aware manner.

#this isn't perfectly everything i wanted to articulate but i'm tired of this sitting in my drafts #especially when i'm getting really burnt out on offering this kind of essay for free with my main responses to them being sui bait anons #or parasocial bullshit #transmisandry #anti transmasculinity #transandrophobia #transmisogyny #intersectional feminism #feminism #anon #long post /#asks

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mobliterated · 4 months

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Okay me angy here I go getting riled up again! If I see any more pisscourse about ace/aro not being part of the queer community, queer is a slur, men are inherently evil monsters, I’m just gonna assume you’re a TERF. Ace discourse back in the 10’s is exactly how TERFs started their rise to power.

Start out by drawing a line in the sand that (awful) people agree with. Now there’s proof that you can start boxing in certain identities. That means (general) you can start making specific definitions for things.

Queer is now a slur again. Queer actually hasn’t been reclaimed. People agree with that. You’ve just torn down an umbrella identity that everyone was able to gather under and unite behind.

LGBTQIA+ is actually the Correct Way to talk about the queer community. Actually we need to drop QIA+ because queer is a slur, intersex isn’t a sexuality/gender and is just a weird medical condition, and A stands for allies (instead of aro/ace bc we already decided that they aren’t part of the community) and we don’t want those sick CisHets infiltrating our community.

LGBT is now the proper accepted term. That means you must be Gay Lesbian Bisexual and/or Transgender to be part of the community. If you aren’t doing LGBT correctly then you are trying to infiltrate the community and steal resources (and those resources are never defined). Only LGBT people are safe.

Oh, except bisexuals. They’re dirty cheaters bc they get to pass as straight and thus aren’t Oppressed Enough like us Pure Gays. How dare they be into men. Only Good Gays get to be into men. If a lesbian ever thought about a man in any vague romantic/sexual way then they are Impure. Men are the true evil of the world bc patriarchy. The only type of man you’ll be safe with is a gay man bc they don’t want to SA you when they see your shoulders/ankles.

All men are the root of all evil, except our good example gay men, who coincidentally are usually white and follow the good gay stereotypes, which are feminine in nature. Femininity is Good and Safe. You can trust anyone who is Feminine, and you can distrust anyone who is Masculine. Men only exist to take advantage of women. Women must be protected at all costs.

Wait. We allow transgender people in the community. That means either a Dirty Evil Man is cosplaying as a woman, or a Pure Innocent Girl got taken in by the evils of masculinity and patriarchy. Trans people are bad since they are being taken over by Evil Men, and/or trying to infiltrate the community, which we already decided is bad. Trans people aren’t Pure. The T in LGBT gets dropped.

Also if you’re nonbinary someone pulled the wool over your eyes. It’s just a phase and you’ll fall into Woman Lite soon enough. There’s no such thing as an amab nonbinary person. Men are evil, and nonbinary is Woman Lite. If you dress in any way that’s not feminine or androgynous then you are doing it wrong.

Congrats, you are now a TERF.

And before you say “that’s not what happened!” I saw every single one of these talking points come out in real time. It was slow. It wasn’t sudden. It was pushing the boundary little by little until you boiled the frog. And now with acecourse coming up again I can all but guarantee that this cycle will happen again. So! Some things to look out for and deprogram.

All men are not inherently evil. All women are not inherently good. Masculinity isn’t inherently evil. Femininity isn’t inherently good. Queer is not a slur and is an extremely useful umbrella term for those who don’t know which label they fit under, or who don’t want a specific label. Yes, queer can still be used as a slur (I have been called queer in a derogatory way) but it is one the community has reclaimed. Trans people aren’t trying to trick you. Amab nonbinary people aren’t “lesser” than afab nonbinary people. Nonbinary is not Woman Lite. There is no such thing as a morally pure sexuality. The queer community is welcome for all who identify as queer; yes, even that person. Policing and oppression olympics is not a litmus test for “pure enough” for joining the queer community. The queer community is for Everyone. That’s it. That’s all.

#gladie talks #queer #queer history #ace/aro #discourse #ideology #please reblog

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rerinko · 16 days

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There may be some slight grammatical errors i'm going to go back over it soon!

Chappell Roan “Good Luck Babe”: The song “Good Luck Babe” by Chappel Roan has blown up online. I personally love the song and I love Chappell Roan. I love seeing any sapphic media in general but especially lesbian specific media. One thing that has come along with the success of this song has been debates online. Debates about comphet, biphobia and lesbiphobia. I couldn't help but join those debates but I quickly learned short form comments aren't the best way to express your opinion coherently.

I saw this one video on TikTok that I can no longer find. It may have been deleted. In this video this bisexual woman on TikTok talked about how she kept seeing this idea that if you identify as bi but you're unfulfilled by relationships with men then you aren't bi. She also brought up how consistently marriage hasn't always been the best for women and just because she is straight doesn't mean a woman will be fulfilled by a relationship with any man. It's also biphobic to say so due those reasons. The lack of fulfillment I reference when talking about the realization that you are a lesbian is very different from the lack of fulfillment straight or bi women can experience in a relationship. A woman who likes men can be unfulfilled in a relationship with a man but that reason does not boil down to the fact that they are a man. If you are a lesbian a man could be perfect, they could provide everything, treat you amazingly, you could even have a good sex life and think you're in love but still no matter what there's something wrong. It's not him or his actions, it's the fact that it's “a him” in the first place. The reason why so many women never realize they're a lesbian is because it's so normalized to be unfulfilled in a relationship with a man. But being is a lesbian not just being unfulfilled with men but being unfulfilled with men in a way that you aren't with women. Straight or bi women have the ability to truly love and be fulfilled by a man. Lesbians do not. This is not to say every relationship is fulfilling. Just because you're with the gender you like, you like this person and you're in a relationship doesn't inherently make the relationship fulfilling. Relationships are complicated and many of them can bring more stress and pain to one's life than love and happiness.

I have seen many TikTok comments say comphet isn't a lesbian only experience and any queer people can experience and I simply do not agree. Lesbians are unique, it is the one sexuality that doesn't include men. The entire world is structured around men, this is a man's world. Women to this day in Canada and the United States can't get sterilized without their husbands consent. Realtors and car salesmen will automatically talk to the husband even if the wife is the one with the money making the purchase. When a woman gets married she takes her husband's last name. From a young age women are socialized to centre their entire life around men. From what we wear, to how we speak, even down to our interests we're taught to change it for the fancy of men. I grew up watching romance movies and I always wanted my own Prince Charming. It seemed like in every show I watched aimed at young girls the happy ending was the main girl getting the guy she wanted. We're never our own people. We are first the property of our fathers then our husbands. But isn't that the issue? When you're a lesbian there is no husband. There is no fairy tale ending, there is no Prince Charming, there's no man to stand up for you against misogynistic men in general. When you realize that you feel like a failure. You want to fit in. You want to talk with your girl friends about your boy crushes and gossip with them. You want to be one of the girls, you want to be normal, you want to like a boy. So you do. You choose one or someone just happens to be available and at first you like the attention. You like the butterflies because you've never held hands romantically before. You even think about him at night and imagine what your first kiss would be like. Then your first kiss actually happens and something feels wrong. You try again and again and nothing makes sense because you thought you liked him. Then you kiss a girl and it all makes sense. I wished I was bisexual, because I at least could've had a chance of marrying a man.

Men can be men. They don't need a wife, sure it's an add on but it's more like a trophy or an accessory they bare. Men can find success while single, they can be respected while single and they don't need their wives consent to do things. Gay men don't have to mourn privileges they will no longer gain because they are gay due to their gender. Men in general will never have to worry about so many things women do. Comphet isn't just being closeted it's about survival in society. It's about you being in denial because your entire life you've been shown there's only one way to be happy and that's to love a man and you'll never love a man. I'm sure all of these issues get even worse in more traditional cultures where men have all of the power making ability.

Bisexual women also face homophobia. I have spent much of this talking about bisexual women liking men but I do want to highlight the fact that bisexual women are also queer. Bisexual women share in the pain of being a queer women. They are often fetitzhed by men even by men they're in relationships and like lesbians assaulted due to the fact they like women. I don't think bisexual women are any less queer than lesbians but I do believe we go through different experiences. We both share the joy and pain of loving women but bisexual women will never understand the pain of not liking men.

Chappell Roan is a lesbian who makes songs about the lesbian experience. I've seen some people talk about the bridge and how they didn't realize it was about a lesbian and instead thought it was about a straight woman.

“When you wake up next to him in the middle of the night

With your head in your hands, you're nothing more than his wife

And when you think about me, all of those years ago

You're standing face to face with "I told you so"

You know I hate to say it, I told you so”

This commenter expanded by saying they just assumed it was about a straight woman who had lost her identity to her husband. I could understand how someone could come to this conclusion after one listen but I think after another few listens you can completely tell this song is about being a closeted lesbian.

This song to me almost feels like a secret summer love affair. One person wants to tell everyone and scream about their love from the rooftops and the other isn't ready to come out. They aren't ready to call what they have love because if they actually admitted it they would be admitting they never truly loved a man. They would have to come to terms with the fact they won't have a “normal” life, they won't have a nuclear family and no matter what not everyone will approve of them. These two people then split down two different paths. One accepts who they are but the other goes on to live a lie. They marry a man despite who they truly are and this bridge is the manifestation of the betrayal of your true self.

Someone's personal interpretation is different from the intended interpretation by the artist. Having your own interpretation is completely valid and it's one of the main things that draws peoples to art. But when art is made with a specific audience in mind actively speaking over those people and saying “oh well I think it's actually about this.” Is just whataboutism. Not everything has to be about everyone and you can relate to something without it being about you.

#feminist #comphet #lesbian #chappell roan #queer #lgbtq #lgbtq community #wlw #sapphic #feminism

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destructrice · 9 months

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When I talk about lesbian loneliness I’m not talking about how hard it is to find a partner (hard but not THAT hard), or even lack of “sapphic” media (even though it’s part of the problem). I think it boils down to what Alison Bechdel meant in that comic that became the reference for the Bechdel test. It’s lonely being a lesbian because every fucking thing is about men. Movies and songs and books, everything is about how men feel, how men think, what men do, what men desire, and it’s all taken as the pinnacle of human expression. Damn, even works by women frequently revolve about men, criticizing them or not. Wanting to have NOTHING to do with men at all means not relating to 99% of the big media. Even a lot of sapphic media find a way to put a love triangle with a man, and it’s fair bisexuals have their representation, they also need it, but it doesn’t change the fact that being a lesbian is being alienated from everything everyone else is into or having to submit to it because there are few other options. And if you want to escape that you have to make an active effort of only reading and listening to lesbians, and it shrinks your world a little because they are so few and so hard to find, if you don’t make exceptions, you’ll probably listen to the same 5 musicians and read the same 10 fictional books for your whole life and never having anything to talk to your other friends. Have you seen that show? Nope. That movie? Nope. Would you like to read that book? No. And there comes the loneliness again, the lack of connection to the people around you.

It also means having a weird perspective on our own gender. Everything in female socialization, and I really mean EVERYTHING, is about attracting men, and sometimes society gets too loud and we wonder “how can I be a woman if I don’t conform to the core of what the whole world considers womanhood that is wanting a man”. This make us feel alienated from OSA women, because they can’t relate with the feeling of failing the most important thing society imposed on you. Some of us find a way of forming a lesbian community, and everyone tries to take that from them all the time, because how come it’s not a LGBT+ community, do you have anything against the other letters? And I don’t think they realize the other option is living with a crushing loneliness all the time, we might even find a partner and dedicate most of our energy towards that relationship, but the loneliness doesn’t go away because it’s not about dating, it’s about feeling like an alien in a society that revolves about men, who they desire and who desires them. It gets better. Sometimes. There are small solaces we sometimes stumble upon. And sometimes it doesn’t get better and we just get used to it.

#lesbian #feminism #wlw #radical feminist safe

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leastdatablebracket · 7 months

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SEMI-FINALS, MATCH 1

Propaganda under the cut!

Solas

Propaganda

He believes all mortal beings deserve to die. He is bald but in a very unsexy way. He exudes zero chemistry and talking to him about romance is like talking to a boiled egg.

Described by major media as "elf hitler," he dumps you to destroy the world

He is a smelly know it all, and that's before you find out he is a deity in disguise who caused the rift you spend the game trying to fix in the first place and he betrayed you and chopped off your hand

Breaks up with you, disappears without saying anything, plans to destroy the world

Look. I’ll admit I have not personally romanced solas. I am baffled that anyone would WANT to romance solas. I know we all love a waify little elf wizard with questionable motivations but jfc look at him like im trying not to say anything demeaning about bald dudes but he does not wear it well. Also iirc you can only romance him if you’re also an elf and then he’s weirdly rude and dismissive if your character is Into Elf Culture. Look im a huge lesbian but Iron Bull is RIGHT FUCKING THERE why would you do this.

Vace

Propaganda

well you (the pollrunner) already know cause hes ur icon but i will say that at least he is meant to suck as a romantic partner with only one ending (two if you include astronaut) having him and sol (the player character) staying together on the other end tho there's three ways to start dating him one is to make him go to therapy n then start dating after he is no longer abusing his girlfriend (either breaking them up by convincing him to dump nemmie or convincing nemmie that hes the scumbag he is n she deserves better) another is to be his side piece and the third way is getting him so mad he drags sol off by the neck to beat the shit out of them with this event ending with either him n sol sleeping together (also causing him and nemmie to break up) sol getting the living daylights beat out of them (to the point they got knocked out n needed medical care) with the implicit threat of vace will do this again if they dont stay out of his way and sol avoiding both of those things but being so shaken by the experience that theyre struggling to breath until theyre outside and fully away from him which gives a very different undertone to hooking up with him in this event

the stuff from when i submitted him is entirely from memory so im directly grabbing snippets from the game files this time around (stuff from the game will be in italics like this spoilers for the game btw) starting with if solanaceae is dating vace during the green vertumna ending (warning for abuse cause he is like intentionally written to be abusive)

As the military gains more power under Lum, Vace feels ambivalent over the increased role he's forced take in adjudicating the pointless squabbles of colonists indefinitely trapped in a tin can- more akin to a police officer than a pround defender. This ambivalence turns to bitterness and resentment. He backslides even further during your relationship with him, eventually becoming violent. Your relationship with him ends in a protracted, messy manipulative break-up that occupies the gossip mill for weeks.

this is the only ending where he becomes physically abusive... to solanaceae at least as if you dont break him and nemmie up and dont manage to corral him to therapy this is a piece of his ending card

Vace loves the idea of having a family to protect. Nemmie retires from active duty when they announce that they're expecting their first child... and then second, and their third shortly after that. He and Nemmie are the picture of bliss for years... that is until it all comes crashing down. Vace is your friend, which is probably why you didnt see the cracks until their family was already broken. Nemmie takes the kids and leaves him in the middle of the night, and Vace never really tells you why... but judging from the way people rally around Nemmie so he can't get to her again, you can take a guess.

the snippet if vace does go to therapy isnt much better

You know that Nemmie was never the mothering type, and having kids is tough on her. (<- nemmie has been repeatively establish throughout the game to not want to be a mom and break up with you if you get the prolific parent career) and Sometimes you wonder if they're truly happy together or just... stuck with each other, but at least they've found some peace.

here are the snippets from if you're dating him first if he goes to therapy (good ending?)

Your relationship has its ups and downs. Vace has a lot of unpacking to do, and it takes time. On his worst days, he's just as he was before: quick to anger, and quick to fall back on intimidation tactics to get his way. You're able to see through to the struggling man underneath, but it takes a toll on both of you. You date on-and-off, fighting and making up often. He's never violent or cruel towards you, (sideeyes other endings) but after a while... you just realize you're unhappy. You're both unhappy. Your relationship feels more like an metaphor for his self-improvement than a beautiful thing you share. Eventually you break up for good. [if mem_ending_parent] He says he'll help with the kids... but he doesn't really have the patience for it.

and without it

Your relationship has its dizzy highs, but more than its fair share of horrible lows. You kind of like it though... it keeps things spicy. You've never been happier than when you and Vace are tearing into each other, whether it be on the training mats or in bed. It makes you feel alive. It all comes down when one of Vace's soldier buddies breaks rank and tells you... Vace is doing the same with other people. The fight is cataclysmic. You scream and throw things, but nothing gets through to Vace. Just like how things were between him and Nemmie, he doesn't consider your feelings at all. He's in it for only one person: himself. When word gets out you two are quits for good, Nemmie gloats about it for days.

here are some bits from nemmie's endings that relate to vace as well with them staying together

However... as the years pass, you begin to see cracks form in Nemmie's happy household. Vace's overbearing nature really leaps out when he had her trapped with three of his kids under their roof, insisting he doesn't want his kids to be raised in 'some hippie creche' like Nemmie was. [if mem_vace_therapyComplete] Nemmie is miserable. She tells you about how they fight all the time- about how every day, she's scared that he'll go back to his old habits and things will break bad between them again, but she's so hopeful because she knows Vace is trying his hardest to be a good partner. It doesn't last forever, though. Vace trusts you, (and not his goddamn wife??) and with you on Nemmie's side, you get him to change his mind on the creche. With more time to breathe at home, the Nemmie you love returns. (no therapy version ->) Eventually, their relationship takes a turn for the worst. Nemmie shows her physical wounds on her skin, but it's harder to see the emotional ones. When she flees to your quarters late one night with bruises, you welcome her in and give her all the support you wished you could have given her all those long years she couldn't see.

and if you break them up

Nemmie's relationship with Vace may have been brief, but it was formative. She doesn't throw herself into loving anyone that deeply again for a long time, instead focusing hard on her work. You're by her side during her misadventures in dating some of the other soldiers- and once, notably, Rex- howling with shared indignity and laughter with every awkward breakup.

for a bit more of a spotlight of how specifically formative vace was nemmie's first relationship and she was 16 going on 17 while vace was 20 going on 21 He Is 4 Years Older Than Both Nemmie And Solanaceae And They Are The Only Named Characters He Can Get Romantically Involved With solanaceae and nemmie were 14-15 when he first meets them i dont remember exactly how old cause i havent played the game in almost a year n the files im using rn (endings + vace's character file) dont have that specific info in them but in the game you can click on character portraits to see the info you have about them which includes their actual ages (+ in game birthmonth) in them anyway theres a lot more i can include but its late n this is already long so heres the specific event i was referencing in my submission i'll do this -> (...) <- to indicate that im omitting some lines for length

You're feeling self-destructive today, so you go looking for Vace. He finds you first. CLANG! Vace gets the drop on you, grabbing you around the neck and slamming you into the metal wall. You're dragged unceremoniously into a side room. Vace's hand clamped across your mouth. He throws you to the ground, and you take quick stock of your surroundings. It looks like a munitions room, though it's been mostly empited but for a few stacks of boxes. There's no one here except you and Vace. Vace stands over you, placing his heavy boot on your chest to keep you pinned to the ground. "It's time you and I had a little chat, Solanaceae." (... just two dialogue choices that lead to vace insulting you before continuing) "Here's what's going to happen," Vace says, deadly calm. (... vace explaing that is going to beat you up expects you to lie there n take it n then ->) "And three, you're going to wake up somewhere else knowing that if you ever mouth off to me in front of my men again, next time you aren't going to wake up." (... dialogue option of "screw me yourself, coward." leads to hookup n will break up him n nemmie if you havent already broken them up n then two skill check choices of Stop You Could Kill Me and Stop You Have More To Lose (ie his position n respect from others as a solider) Than I Do leading to the successful release ->) You close your eyes and wair for the blow to land. It doesn't. "Shit," Vace mutters, lowering his hand. He drops you back on the ground and steps away. "Get the hell out of here before I change my mind." You do that, fighting down the nauseating feeling of his eyes burning a hole in your back. It's not until you're back outside and gulping huge breathes of fresh air that you stop trembling.

you can cheat on vace with a nonromantic victim of his btw n you can be in like an actual polycule in this game n attempting to date anyone else while in a monogamous relationship you automatically break up with the other person but you can cheat on vace if you want to cause he sucks so much back onto the event though those are the successful talking options you can also start fighting him back n convince him to fight you fairly (n then also run away immediately if you dont have enough skill for the Kick His Ass dialogue option netting you the same line about taking huge breathes of air to stop trembling) but here's the text for if you lose talking him down

"Please, don't hurt me." "I'm not hurting you," Vace says. "I'm making you stronger." You close your eyes. It doesn't help. As foretold in the prophecy, you awaken in the medbay some time later. Your skull feels like it's full of buzzing blip bugs. One of Congruence's monitors lights up and she slides over to your bedside. "Welcome back," she says in her best attempt at a soothing voice. "Don't be alarmed, it's quite normal to be disoriented after a head injury. How are you feeling?" (... two dialogue choices that only add one word to the following) Congruence whirrs. "Yes, according to the report from Vace, you were in a training accident," she says. "You should use more caution when sparring, Solanaceae. Concussions are not an advised part of a healthy training regimen."

you can get this event at like almost any time it just requires pissing vace off n solanaceae to be 17+ (as vace n nemmie start dating during their 17th birthday party) you might even be able to trigger it while already dating him (would have to test it tho) cause the thing that triggers the event is ~ if mem_fight_vace > 2 and the things you can do to get that number up are like winning at space soccer n then punching him for insulting your friend and winning sparring against him things unrelated to whether or not you're dating him here's some photos i took of the former event when i got it as a treat for reading all of this no one who dates him is getting a good relationship

#semi finals

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purlturtle · 1 year

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Why "You're not HSP, you're autistic!" isn't helpful but actually counterproductive

So first, let me explain my background on this:

I'm a social worker. Communication is my daily tool, especially with people in crisis

I identify as HSP but not as autistic. I have reasons for that.

I'm also a lesbian, and have been active in the queer community for literal decades. This includes discussion about labels, self-identification, labels based in discriminatory thinking, etc.

lastly, I'm acutely aware of intersectionality, internalized biases, and where they can lead us

Next, let me outline who this post is for:

anyone who is convinced of the above sentence (and wants to convince others too)

anyone who is uncertain which label applies to them, but feels like it might be one of the two

anyone who knows they are one or both of the above labels and wants to communicate with others.

I'll put my arguments under the Readmore, so as not to clutter up people's dashes; this is gonna get long. In essence, they boil down to:

You-messages like the above very rarely work.

telling someone their own identity typically doesn't work.

a researcher's ableism doesn't necessarily mean their whole entire body of work needs to be thrown out.

HSP and autism have several overlapping criteria, however that does not mean that HSP equals autism.

Lastly, let me tell you why it's important:

we all, no matter how we label ourselves, seek for tools (self help, therapy, apps, etc.) that will improve our lives. Some of the tools from the Autism Toolbox will work for me, some from the ADHD Toolbox too - but not all of them.

currently, there is another toolbox labeled HSP, and the tools in there are perfect for me. I only found them because I found the label HSP; I did not find them in the Autism or ADHD Toolbox. Maybe one day these toolboxes will be integrated into one, maybe under the autism label, who knows. But RIGHT NOW they are not. Right now, they are labeled HSP or SPS, and those are the terms I needed to search for to find them - no matter that the terms might be badly chose

"you're not HSP, you're autistic" denies that this HSP Toolbox even exists, and so people will not find all the tools that can make their life better.

Okay, here's the long form of my arguments.

You-messages like the above very rarely work.

Most people's gut reaction to being told "You are not X, you're actually Y!" is "who are you to tell me what I am?" or "who are you to tell me that my conclusion is wrong?" Such a reaction is, as stated, not helpful, and usually counterproductive. It puts the person being told "You're Y" on the defensive, and people don't change their mind when they feel defensive.

If you are truly convinced that this person is autistic, it is far more helpful to put this in an I-message, and temper it with a potentiality: "I think/it seems to me, from what you describe, that you could be autistic." And then to follow this up with, for example, a question like "have you ever considered that?" so that they can explain if, perhaps, they have already looked into that, or tell you that no, they haven't, what's your reasoning?

They might still react defensively due to their own ableism against being potentially autistic. But they can tell themselves "okay, that was just this person's opinion, I don't have to listen to them," which is actually a much less conflict-ridden outcome.

telling someone their own identity typically doesn't work.

Let's look at another way of telling someone their own identity: "You're not a gender non-conforming cis woman, you're actually trans!" - how do you, an internet stranger, know? All you have is a few sentences that someone posted somewhere; they, meanwhile, know their own lived reality 24/7 of however many years they've lived with it. Again, this kind of communication leads to defensiveness.

Even if it's true - and that's an important thing to keep in mind.

This person might be trans. That person might be autistic. But unless and until they are ready to hear that, to think about that as a possibility, to test apply that label to themselves and see if it fits? You telling them will do jack shit. Especially in a confrontative You-message. It might even lead to them taking longer to embrace that part of their own identity; out of spite ("just because some random internet stranger said I was doesn't mean I am"), out of fear ("I don't want people to know this about me; am I that easy to clock?"), of out internalized bias against the identity ("I can't possibly be this!").

a researcher's ableism doesn't necessarily mean their whole entire body of work needs to be thrown out.

I see the ableism in Aron's work. And in that of other researchers. Bias against autism is unfortunately still rampant, even in psychology, even in neurosciences. And I understand the pain of seeing that, of being belittled, dismissed, being made invisible. And I further understand the gut reaction to not want to have anything to do with a person who is like that, who does that.

That is not, however, how science works. Science needs to take an objective look at what is presented, check it for biases (among other things), and if found, check whether those biases truly invalidate the entire body of work, or parts of it, and then throw those out and also check if sense can be made of the data/findings without those biases.

That is what further research and peer review is all about, and that is being done right now. This has been the case throughout medical history, as well as all other sciences. Heck, for the longest time (including even today), one form of autism was named after a fucking Nazi ramp doctor.

Again, I know the pain that bias in science can cause. I've been at the receiving end, I know plenty of people who have been on the receiving end, I see your pain. I understand wanting to be seen, not dismissed. I understand wanting to lash out.

However, when you do so by telling people "you're not HSP, you're actually autistic", the only people that you hurt are the ones who are seeking help, who are vulnerable and in pain themselves. It wasn't all that long ago that especially girls and women (or people perceived as such by parents, teachers, doctors) were told "You're not autistic; girls can't be autistic." It hurt them. It denied them access to help that they sorely needed. Don't perpetuate that, please - even if you are truly convinced that this person is, in fact, autistic: please refer to the above two bullet points to understand why telling them in that way won't help.

HSP and autism have several overlapping criteria

and it is possible to be both, it is possible to identify first as one, then the other, and it is possibly to mistakingly think you're one when you're actually the other. However that does not mean that HSP equals autism in every single case - not according to current psychological and neurological knowledge.

I score well below the threshold for every single autism test. Like, it's not even close. Even the ones that test for typically-overlooked autism criteria, even the ones that test for how autism presents in women, all of them. The experiences that autistic people describe, of studying social interactions until they can mimic them perfectly, know what to say and how to react because they've seen other people do so and can replicate that - none of that is me. By all criteria known to current science, I am not autistic.

I have, however, undeniably a high sensitivity to external input, sensory processing sensitivity, funnel not filter, high-wired brain, however you want to name it. I don't care what it's called; all I care about is that I understand how I work, how my brain works, so that I can finally get the bottom back under my feet. That is why I was trying to see if I'm autistic: because that would have helped me make sense of what is going on, of how I feel wrong all the time; and it would have enabled me to seek out therapy that was actually helpful. I would not have minded an autism diagnosis; I would have welcomed it, precisely because of that.

And it was never the right fit. And god, how that frustrated me. And I know you know that feeling, of looking at this box and that label and this study and that doctor, and they all tell you "no, this isn't you, not precisely." And you know that you don't fit in with society, that you're different than other people, who seem to fit in so easily, who go through life so blithely when you simply can't, and you just wanna know why that is and how to change it, how to make things so that you can go through life blithely too.

The overlap between HSP and autism is large.

And maybe, further down the line and the years, science will come up with a concept that combines autism and HSP or SPS or whatever they call it currently. And when that time comes, I'll embrace that concept just like I'm embracing HSP as a concept right now, just like I would have embraced an autism diagnosis. But until that happens, we need to keep both of these labels, diagnoses, whatever you want to call them, open and available for people.

Because while the overlap is large (just like autism and ADHD have some overlap), it isn't a circle; it's a Venn diagram with some communal and some separate aspects. And I fall into the pool that isn't overlapping with autism. Others don't. Squares and rhombuses can coexist, and so can autistic people and highly sensitive people; I'm 100% convinced that plenty of accommodations, tools, helpful tricks work for us both.

But some of them are not fully the right fit, and that is important. In the end, that is what this is about, and why we need both terms, both concepts, and why conflating them isn't helpful: the people who fall under any of these diagnoses need to find the correct help, the correct tools for living their lives in the best way possible. The way I need to arrange my life, the strategies I need to develop and the accommodations I need to implement, have lots in common with what an autistic person might need - lots, but not everything. Just like different autistic people will need different things. And people with ADHD need different things (and also some of the same things). But when you point me only to the Autism Toolbox, I will not find everything I need, just like an ADHD person won't. And that makes my life harder than it needs to be.

Currently, I find the tools that I need in a box labeled HSP. I don't care if they stay in there, if the box gets relabeled, if it gets integrated into the autism toolbox. All I care about is that I have access to them, that other people who need the same tools have access to them. I have started to work with an HSP coach, who I found because I found the label HSP, and when I tell you that my life has massively improved since then, I want you to hear that.

When you say "you're not HSP, you're actually autistic," one of the things you're doing is you deny people access to the tools they need.

And I won't stand for that.

#hsp #highly sensitive #highly sensitive person #autism #overlap between autism and hsp #ableism in hsp

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t4transsexual · 1 year

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t4t masterpost

im gonna make a whole post with definitions, misconceptions, ect. of being t4t for anybody who this may aid later.

what is t4t?

being t4t or transamorous as a trans person (i wanna see the term transamorous used more often by t4t people tbh) can mean a number of different things, and it doesnt have to be limited to sexual/romantic encounters either.

the general definition is being a trans person who either prefers to or exclusively forms any kind of relationship with other trans people, especially romantic and sexual relationships. for some people, being t4t applies only to romantic and/or sexual relationships, for others, it can extend to friendships and even professional relationships (ie. preferring a trans therapist). though, youre more likely to see t4t people who being t4t only extends to romantic or sexual relationships, and maybe platonic as well.

being t4t romantically/sexually can mean a number of different things. it can mean that one may prefer to date trans people but wouldnt be opposed to a cisgender partner. it can also mean that that trans person only seeks out relationships with other trans people, but if one with a cis person manifested itself, they may not be opposed. for others, myself, the t4t is non-negotiable, and we ONLY form relationships like that with other trans people; some of us dont even feel attracted to cis people anymore for trauma reasons or the like.

what reasons would a trans person have to be exclusively t4t?

theres plenty of different reasons, but they mostly boil down to the fact that its just safer to date/form relationships as a trans person if theyre with other trans people. yes, theres plenty of trans people who are horrible partners, but in my experience from dating trans people vs cis people, the trans people ive dated had each had unique issues that contributed to the end of the relationship, and none of these issues had to do with either of our genders. however, with the cis people ive dated, it was like a pattern. they were always weird about me being trans, they were always transphobic in some sort of way, and they always believed that they WERENT transphobic because they were willing to date a trans person. and im not the kind of person to do the same things over and over and expect a different outcome.

DISCLAIMER: i mention several times throughout this post that dating trans people as a trans person is generally safer/easier than dating cis people. i do believe this, but you can still be abused and hurt by trans people. my trans ex girlfriend tried to kill me. being t4t doesn't guarantee safety; its still your responsibility to notice red flags and react accordingly. stay safe out there!

you can still be hurt by a trans person, but youre much less likely to run into hangups about gender, transition, and personal values regarding being trans if you date trans people. youre generally not going to run into someone with a savior complex because they date trans people, or someone who will emotionally manipulate you when you call them out on their transphobia if you just date trans people in the first place.

what does being t4t look like?

any trans person can be t4t. there are many gay trans people who are t4t, and many lesbian trans people who are t4t. theres trans bisexuals/pansexuals who are t4t. people on the aromantic/asexual spectrums can also be t4t. there are straight t4t people, like me. these relationships can be monogamous or polyamorous; theres are polycules of exclusively trans people.

for many, being t4t is a conscious choice. being transamorous isnt a sexuality, its a preference. many transamorous trans people can feel attracted to cis people, but may not want to form a relationship with them on the basis that theyre t4t. attraction isnt consent.

isnt t4t just like being a chaser?

i wont deny the existence of trans chasers who happen to be trans, but trans bodies arent a fetish. yes, there are people who fetishize trans bodies, but this isnt every person who is attracted to trans people (and yes, this includes cis people) because we arent abnormal. trans people are perfectly natural, and attraction to trans bodies (even those that are that are pre/non op!) isnt a deviancy, its normal.

the idea that attraction to trans people is a deviancy and not the norm is inherently transphobic, and many trans people internalize this rhetoric, and develop trust issues around dating or having sex. the "wrong body" narrative can be true to some, but it isnt true to everyone. i personally wouldnt want to be cis, and many other trans people feel this way too. attraction to trans bodies is normal, because trans bodies are beautiful.

then what IS a chaser?

a chaser is a person whos attraction (and therefore acceptance) of trans people is dependent on them fulfilling a certain role. many chasers dont view trans people outside of pornography, and so they have a warped idea of what a trans person is. a chaser isnt defined solely by their attraction to trans bodies, because EVERYONE is attracted to trans bodies. they are instead defined by their behavior towards trans people. more often than not, because chasers don't interact with trans people outside of a pornographic lense, they dont see trans people as human, or really as anything beyond an idea to get them off. a relationship with a chaser is often degrading, one sided, and controlling. many chasers dont want their trans interests to get certain gender affirming care, such as hormones, or surgeries.

if youre a trans person who cant tell the difference between someone who isnt opposed to dating a trans person (cis or trans), and a chaser, there are definitely things to look for. the main sign that youre interacting with a chaser is that you may feel degraded just by interacting with them in an intimate way. chasers are known to do that.

transfemme tops and transmasc bottoms

many people have called me a chaser when i (st4t) have expressed that i prefer to date transfemme tops. ill go ahead and explain: im straight and a bottom. i just happen to date mostly trans women. im not seeking out transfemme tops because theyre trans tops, im seeking them out because they align with my sexuality and transamorous preference. i also dont have a genital preference, and transfeminine people can have vaginas.

now that thats out of the way, remember that there are many different ways to have sex, even as a trans person. some transmasc bottoms dont use their natal genitalia to bottom, some transfemme tops dont use their natal genitalia to top. there are many different ways to top or bottom for somebody, no matter what genitals are involved. many trans women use strap ons to top, for example. hrt can also alter how our genitals work.

final note

t4t trans people arent chasers, and t4t is, imo, the safest way for a trans person to date!

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rollercoasterwords · 2 years

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ok here's the cottagecore rant lol

i'm definitely not the first person to complain about cottagecore and like the 'cottagecorification' of lesbians but i've just been thinking about it tonight and i feel like the two main facets of what irritate me about it are like:

the way it mysticizes femininity. like...i am generally skeptical of any form of gender essentialism but especially this whole "divine feminine" sort of rhetoric that i've seen floating around the internet, which essentially acts as though a proper response to the gender roles created by patriarchy is to take the gender role of "woman" and shout really loudly about how good it is, which like...i understand the desire to take historically stigmatized aspects of femininity and reclaim them and push back against stigmatizing narratives, but mysticizing feminity does nothing but take us back to gender essentialism, which will always inevitably take us back to a gender hierarchy, so it's like....idk babe read some audre lorde. master's tools will never dismantle the master's house and all that. like there is no inherent goodness to womanhood and portraying femininity as this dainty pretty thing isn't actually really doing anyone a favor in the long-run. also -- i feel like this ties in to the ways that people will sometimes talk about lesbians and lesbian relationships like "wow women are just so beautiful and magical and amazing and lesbians are just so perfect and lesbian relationships are all just so perfect" where it's like...k. tell me u don't see lesbians as people but make it woke ig.

the way it sanitizes lesbianism. and like again i am not the first person to complain about this but anytime i see lesbianism portrayed as just like "omg uwu cute picnics and matching little fairy outfits and watching the sunset together" i'm just like...i'm not 5 years old??? like it almost feels as if in trying to avoid lesbians being oversexualized we've just decided to turn them into a children's picture book?? and it's like....idk babe u do u but if this is your impression of what being a lesbian is about then....yikes.

and the thing is like this combo of mysticizing femininty and sanitizing lesbianism i think leads to this weird anti-masculinity sentiment within queer and wlw spaces where people will be like "feminine = good and masculine = bad" and then we get all these "jokes" where people just repeat the same rhetoric about masculine lesbians being creepy ugly predators and it's like....i am literally going to rip ur spine out. i am. going to kill you. seriously the fucking "hey mamas" jokes and shit?? ohhhh i could go on and on maybe i just need to make a separate rant for that but yeah. making fun of masculine lesbians is literally only ever punching down and if you don't understand that then u have an incredibly warped understanding of like queer politics and also have probably never studied even a crumb of queer history.

ANYWAY at the end of the day all of this also just goes back to like. turning queerness into an aesthetic for the consumption of a broad audience and this is an issue throughout queer spaces i think because people don't actually want to accept queerness they just want to consume it as a form of entertainment but with lesbians specifically it just sucks that the palatable aesthetic is always going to be some kind of hyperfeminine conventionally pretty little package that is either completely devoid of sexuality or sexualized in a way that is very consumable for nonlesbians. and it sucks when people within the queer community buy so heavily into that aesthetic without seeing the ways that boiling a sexuality down to an aesthetic is harmful. like -- it's okay to enjoy or identify with certain aspects of "cottagecore" like shit man i like picnics too and if ur into cute dresses and shit u do u but if your queer identity revolves around aesthetics then there is very little that is actually queer about it and you will likely struggle to actually be in community with those who don't fit into your sanitized and palatable narratives of what it means to be queer. so. work on conceptualizing queerness beyond aesthetics maybe!

#i feel like there are still thoughts buzzing around in my brain #but whatever this helped me organize them at least a little bit #there's just. so much to say about queerness and the way it's increasingly #boiled down to aesthetics in online spaces #like if your queernness begins and ends with a pinterest board u simply aren't as queer as you think u are i'm sorry #and it's like i know a lot of these people are probably young queers figuring things out #and it's understandable that the first representations of queerness ur encountering in online spaces are all like #boiled down aesthetics #but please please try to think beyond that too #queerness is about so much more than the way u fucking dress #or filming a cute date you went on with your gf to get likes on the internet #queerness is a fundamentally abrasive thing!!! it's not cute and fun a lot of the time!! it can be hard and gross and scary!!#anyway i need to stop talking these tags are just becoming a whole other essay my b #txt #ranting and raving

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thestobingirlie · 1 year

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A few days ago I sent a very ranty ask but I think it got lost and so i was kinda disappointed but also realized I was being a bit of a hater and cannot remember how coherent it was, so it's probably fine it got lost lol. However I was thinking about my little lost hater rant and why I dislike bg ron/ance in steddie fics and not bg steddie in other fics and realized like. Obviously it has to do with my dislike of the ship in general, which means the immense amount of legwork an author has to do for me to feel like Ron//anace actually makes sense for Robin and Steve AND Nancy can only be done in a rn focused fic, which I will not read, because I don't like the ship and even if they say in the tags stobin are bffs it is unlikely that they actually are in the way they deserve to be. (I think it always boils down to people devaluing the relationship stobin have with each other for the sake of a Romo ship, which other ships do but I think rn does it the most or at least the most glaringly)

I also touched on how for some reason sometimes they make Nancy this best friend type person for Steve or Eddie and have her really involved in their relationship or getting together but that's not who she is! I'm not a Nancy hater at all but she doesn't seem interested in the people she saves the world with unless they are saving the world or dating her. She doesn't seem interested in other people's dating lives. And having an ex, even if you ended things amicably (one could easily argue st//cy didn't) smirking about how you are your queer crush in 80's Indiana are so obvious would probably be incredibly uncomfortable. But steddie in like, lu-max or gen fics is just two of their friends dating and maybe a mention of homophobia or how they are kind of an unexpected couple given their archetypes, or how they bicker or something. Obviously they do have to work on their relationship but not to the gymnastic level ooc bending (in my opinion) degree of rn.

i love being a hater. it’s my favourite hobby.

but anyway! yeah, i think it’s interesting that it’s often r//nance that’s the background ship, when it takes a lot for the relationship to work. (obvs the reason this happens is just the way people neglect lesbian couples and prioritise mlm, but still)

like, as the characters are in s4, steddie could be paired off in the background, but i don’t think r//nance could be. (and yeah, no matter what people try to do in a r//nance fic, either stobin gets ignored, or nancy is a completely different character and stancy is a completely different relationship)

a lot of fics prioritise romance over friendship, and i think the reason people notice it more with r//nance fics, is just because of how close stobin are, and so how vastly different the dynamic has to become in fics

but yeah, people try to involve nancy in everyone and it’s like… you are dragging that girl by her ratty hair, she does not want to be friends with these people. i don’t think she hates them! but like you said, unless they’re dating, or actively saving the world, she has no interest in them (sometimes even when they’re dating she doesn’t have much interest lmao).

i could see her getting involved in others relationships, but not out of like, kindness. i think she would just be nosy, and i do not think steve would take that well. and, honestly if anyone made snide comments about how obvious my queer crush was, i would stop talking to that person, let alone if they were my ex.

#steve harrington #eddie munson #robin buckley #steddie #nancy wheeler #anti ronance #stranger things #asks #anon

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riverdale-retread · 8 months

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Riverdale S7 E 18 (Chapter 135) For a Better Tomorrow!

Jughead Jones is definitely established as a weird weirdo in this universe, yes, but the way he is doing his relationship with Veronica Lodge is very funny. He says, as a boy person at his indisputable sexual peak, that one of the “distinct advantages” of dating a movie theater owner (the very sexy teen witch cosplayer Veronica Lodge) is being able to score free movie tickets for his friends. On the one hand, Jughead is a true one, because despite getting a cool girlfriend he just hangs out with all his old dorky friends - I like this. On the other hand, how in the heck is getting to make out with THE Veronica Lodge one of the UNDIFFERENTIATED OR INDEFINITE advantages in life? Que???

The makers of this show are doing the most, I suppose, in order to check all the possible boxes for what Jughead Jones’ sexuality could be. We had the yearning homosexual Jughead (Jarchie - not canon), the clueless lesbian coded Jughead (with Bret Weston Wallis), monogamous romantic prince (Bughead), slutty famewhore who sleeps with his groupies, toxic failboyfriend (with the evil drug dealer girlfriend). We now get Wide Eyed 50s Teen Boyfriend Jughead in the Jeronica relationship, but also asexual Jughead who has no reaction whatsoever to two people sloppily making out next to him as he happily tosses popcorn down his throat, bracketing the central Ethel and Ben couple with the Emasculated-By-Racism- Big-Dick Dilton on either side. All FOUR of them are the only people not making out at this movie theater for this screening.

Ethel. Ethel! If you want to get action you can’t be taking TWO hangers on with you to the movies!?

In any case I’m glad to see that Veronica’s movie theater business is doing very well despite the immense number of movie tickets she seems intent on giving away for free. Is this like a Helena Rubinstein/Estee Lauder way of doing business, where you give away product in order to keep customers? But isn’t she the only theater in town? Veronica Lodge is an improbable creature - an ethical monopolist??

Jughead and Ethel are happily chatting, smiling about the movie they just watched. As Jughead says they’re about to walk into their very own “science fiction tinged B-movie.” The screen goes to black and white. The B&W episode referencing Chinatown was great, so I have high hopes for this one.

Segment One! Jughead Jones In The Mysterious Melting Man!

A man walks towards Jughead as bits of skin boil painfully off of his body and face. Jughead seems to have the most curious frozen response to this. He doesn’t scream, he doesn’t try to get away and he doesn’t even look particularly upset, to be honest. He just looks merely interested. He also doesn’t do anything to rush to that man’s aid. But then again, if confronted with such a sight I’m not sure what I would do either.

The horrendous police force consisting of the extremely incompetent Sheriff Keller shoots this man from behind, but actually he’s aiming his gun IN THE DIRECTION of a crowd of theater goers that have just left the cinema. The Americans of this time (or maybe now) are so desensitized to gun violence that they don’t seem to clock that a) cops or anyone do not have a supremely high marksmakship rate especially of a moving target and b) the gun was pointed directly at each of them during this entire time. They just watch a man get gunned down by cops on a Saturday evening right in front of them in the open town square and don’t scream or blink or duct. They just look a bit inconvenienced.

Keller claims later that the man was a) a vagrant (who can be shot on sight apparently) and b) suffering from leprosy which is why he looked like that. Except, Jughead supplies immediately, that Ethel recognizes what the man was wearing because it’s the uniform of the Blossom maple factory.

Jughead decides that all this is bullshit so he takes it upon himself to hunt down the answers.

DOCTOR CURDLE JUNIOR IS BAAAACK !

HI MY FAVORITE LITTLE TALL GIANT MAN!!

So, Dr. Curdle (not Jr!) is all about gruesome comics, which Jughead still has copies of when he nicked them from his employer, and is now dealing like they’re some sort of hard street drug.

“Worthy of a quid. Pro. Quo.” God I love the way Dr. Curdle talks.

Jughead responds, “keen-o!” Which I quite like. I tend to say Okedoke in an effort to not be offensively autistic when people give me unnecessary boring bits of information at work, and I think I might add “keen-O” to my roster. Jughead wants to know about the “mysterious melting man.” He didn’t actually have to say all three words, but he was very happy to be alliterative so he couldn’t pass that up.

The answer is “acute radiation poisoning!”

Sadly, Curdle didn’t get to have a lot of time with the body, but it was Mayor Blossom who came to collect the body. Curdle confirms that the man was in fact an employee of the maple factory. “That stinks like a rotten fish!”

Bright and early the next day, Betty bounces down the stairs to ask if Ethel wants to go to school with her. Hal suggests that Betty permit Alice to drive them both, but Betty is firm in her rejection. The cold war between mother and daughter post-slap seems to be something that is giving Hal indigestion. Further, Betty apparently will just not eat breakfast unless her mother will make it for her, and then to up the ante it seems as though Alice is still making breakfast for everyone in the household who isn’t Betty - inclusive of Ethel. It’s getting very complicated. Anyway, Alice tells Hal that at some point the weather will be terrible because they’re in upstate New York that isn’t America, and Betty will “finally let me give her a ride.” Betty remains just as pleasant in her hatefulness when she informs Alice that she will not ever be needing that ride from her mother because she’s taking Driver’s Ed at school and pretty soon she will be able to drive herself wherever she wants!

This is Segment 2: BETTY COOPER IN DRIVER’S EDUCATION!

We’re suddenly in black and white again.

Oops except we’re not.

We’re in the Andrews’ kitchen as Frank smugly informs Reggie that he got into a really great basketball camp. He’s being very nasty to Mary’s son right in front of Mary first thing in the morning, sneering at him about how there is no camp for poetry, and so Archie is without a fun set of summer plans to look forward to. His sneering is very heavy handed. He even calls Archie ‘Shakespeare’ in the most condescending tone of voice. It brings out the CAN YOU SPELL IT in me.

Segment 3 is going to be ARCHIE ANDREWS IN SHIPPING OUT!

Everything is in black and white again. Mary is for once not being completely useless, which I can’t tell if it happened in the technicolor real-life of this season or is possible because it’s not real, just the B Movie version, because I don’t know yet what these black and white transitions mean. Mary as I say isnt completely useless, only merely mostly useless. She says that Archie can pick up a summer shift or two at Pop’s or come help his mother out at the dress shop.

Frank doesn’t even respect Mary enough to look at her as he sneers about HER BUSINESS which is what he must have been LIVING OFF OF when he first moved to Riverdale with no job. What the fuck, Frank. He brings all his patented boring ass toxic masculinity to the fore - oooh yer gonna be workin’ at your mom’s *dress* shoppe~~ I mean. You get to interact with all the pretty girls in their super tight body-con dresses at the dress shop. What’s your problem?

Archie looks angry as he stomps off.

We switch to the Blossom household, where Julian is willing to give Cheryl a ride to school. He’s a dickhead though, because she’s walking RIGHT NEXT to him, clearly ready to go, and he’s still gotta voice the threat about how his “train is leaving with or without you.” Hon, your schlong isn’t that big.

On a brighter note, I do like how much white Cheryl has been wearing with her red ensembles. I love the cherries on her shirt. They both see a military someone salute their father. They smirk at each other about his ridiculous it is to see someone give Clifford Blossom a salute of any kind. Julian wants to know if he’s enlisting. Clifford hates both his children equally, apparently, because he calls them “asinine” and then says that this was a General Taylor from Washington who was “delivering unto me a gift.” Then he brings them into his study to show them a cock-less Baphomet, whom he calls Moloch. Seriously. Moloch is not hiding anything under that skirt. He has Barbie Genitals, you know he has. Anyway, Clifford makes ridiculous statements about how this ancient deity can only be appeased by child sacrifice, and tells his very physically mature children that they should be frightened, implying he’d kill either or both of them “should you be inclined to give me any more grief.”

A pompous father who can’t take any sort of joke about himself so that he always responds to anything that isn’t flattery and obsequiousness with threats of violence? Oh hey that was on my Riverdale is my life Bingo!

This is Segment Four! CHERYL BLOSSOM IN PROJECT MOLOCH!

At school, Jughead approaches Ethel in the black and white world. Jughead asks if Ethel’s father ever got sick. She says he was a janitor at the maple factory, who had joint pain, stomach pain, and hair loss, all in a chronic way. Far away, Dilton hears this list of symptoms. He looks very disturbed immediately. Jughead thinks that the Blossoms are hiding something, because Ethel’s dad, the melting man and Brad Rayberry all being former workers at the maple factory dying very strange deaths is not a coincidence. He wants to get everyone closure about what happened.

Ethel shakes her head. She wants to move on with her life. She’s going to get her driver’s license, she is about to get the car from her Miss Teen Queen win (it’s still not clear to me if the prizes were OR or AND but I hope it was AND so she can get the car AND the scholarship AND the screen test). She tells Jughead that she is also going steady with Ben, to which Jughead says “our Ben?” and doesn’t believe her. He turns around to stare at Ben.

Why is this surprising to Jughead in a world where he’s going steady with Veronica Lodge EVEN AFTER the milk screeching incident and all the other weirdnesses of before?

Ethel is trying not to be annoyed at this reaction of Jughead, so she just sums up, to say she is trying to put the bad events behind her, so he should take of.

The teacher starts showing them a scary movie about what happens to people in an atomic blast. Some of this looks like it’s real period product. All the students are freaking out together in the lounge about the atomic explosion.

Jughead is seated holding court at the big armchair, which is really weird because why is Cheryl permitting this? That used to be HER seat?

Oh because this is the B&W B movie universe of Jughead Jones in The Mysterious Melting Man. Veronica is wearing her not great napkin=bikini ribbon floof dress again, perched like a good little housewife on the arm of the chair that Jughead is sitting in like a king which -=VERONICA WOULD NOT. Behind them, in a weird echo, are Ben and Ethel, leaning their butts against a table as they stand.

Jughead states the obvious, that “in truth, most of us wouldn’t likely survive an atomic explosion.”

Archie has never heard of Japan, Nagasaki or Hiroshima. He did not understand that the atomic bomb would kill him. He wants Jughead to spell it out. Veronica says that there is an underground CITY levels of basements at the Pembroke. She invites Juggykins to come with her. Jughead doesn’t seem to feel any better, but Cheryl is outright disgusted at this display of heterosexuality from Veronica Lodge. The thing is, she also has a place to go in case the bomb hits - she thinks. She’s going to go to the mines which have “stood strong since before the Revolutionary War.”

I can’t remember anything anymore but wan’t there a caving in of those very same mines in S6, some half century after this conversation, in the other universe? It doesn’t immediately occur to her to invite Toni, so Toni prompts her. (Oh and I forgot they are not out).

Reggie is going to go to Duck Creek to climb into the mines. Archie is going to drive all the way to California (he’s very California fixated in this universe) while trusting that the Rockies will serve as a general kind of radiation shelter. Ethel says wistfully that out west does sound nice, to which Ben agrees.

I don’t think any of the characters, nor the people making this, realize how very funny this is. This is the most ridiculous display of the American delusions of both exceptionalism and extreme individualism. When something bad happens, they refuse to imagine a possibility that they will come up with a community solution because they don’t want to include certain people in that community (be it Catholics, Protestants, Mormons, Italians, Swedes, Germans, Asians of any stripe, or black people etc etc). People coexist in America, apparently but they don’t live together. This is funny especially because in Korea everyone assumes that if we get nuked by the evil fat boy up North (each generation has gotten one of its own for three generations) we all die, and then those that don’t die will have to suffer and rebuild, because we had something akin to a nuke level disaster happen in 1950 and that’s what we did. We don’t coexist very well among ourselves (the viciousness of our press makes Fox vs CNN battles look trifling) but we do actually live together.

The heartlessness of these announcements by these people in front of their friends, and the extremely calm, almost non-reactive responses to the heartlessness makes everybody sound psychotic. They all say, more or less, I hope I don’t die, and I don’t care about what happens to any of you.

The surreal Americanness of this matches the cop pointing his gun in the general direction of children in the hopes of hitting the one person he wants to shoot dead in the street.

Anyway, Clay gets especially annoyed at Archie wanting to drive away from the imaginary nuke. The fact that those who have means are only creating solitary survival plans doesn’t bother him at all, even though those plans seem just as silly to me as driving away from a bomb.

Kevin takes the conversation to surreal heights by saying that the inside of a refrigerator is going to be a good bet to not die in a nuclear blast. Immediately, Toni and then Betty point out how dumb this is. (“What would you do about food and water?”) Kevin though has a funny enough answer that lightens the mood - “I’d be inside a refrigerator.”

Fangs actually saves the day (what the heck?) by saying he doesn’t want to plan to hide from anything. Clay mentions that there are communities in Nevada that have built nuclear bomb shelters, a “lead lined bunker,” in case of a nuclear war. Betty tries to see if the small town she so wanted to burn to the ground last episode might have some redeeming qualities after all: Maybe it’s too insignificant to be the target of a bomb like that. Jughead thinks that “an atomic drop could drop anywhere, even here, in Riverdale.”

Well yeah.

Later on, the gay boyfriends are trying to tie a sailor’s knot. Because Frank was so heterosexually ugly to him that morning, Archie is wanting to hang out with the gays. He shows them how to tie the knot, saying all this stuff about a rabbit and a tree and a hole. Archie asks them why they want to tie knots, after he drops his competent one on the table. They say that they want to join the Merchant Marines, which is not part of the US Navy but is instead a civilian job, where you are on merchant boats I guess and “travel around the world.” Clay starts to recruit Archie to the Merchant Marines.

OK so Clay has a thing about white boys, I guess? He spent a lot of the past couple episodes trying to ease Archie into the idea that fucking men didn’t mean you had to stop wanting to fuck women, for one, and also that fucking around in general is really great for writing material. I am not at all sure about that but OK. He drops the names Ginsberg and Kerouac as having both “done time on the Seven Seas.” Too bad he doesn’t know Archie likes to jump into the (ahem) deep end so he lost his virginity on the same night that he also had a threesome and prostituted a woman plus he developed a taste for middle aged woman.

Archie is very susceptible to specific, easy to understand suggestions, and is like this in every universe. Recruiting pamphlets are designed for people like Archie Andrews to get themselves into trouble. His priorities are first, to get away from Uncle fucking Frank, second, See The World, third, Have Adventures, fourth, enrich his writing, and uh finally, tie a lot of knots. The recruiter is coming tomorrow.

Grundy is the driver’s ed teacher. For some reason the driver’s ed class is fully gender segregated. Why is this? Is this something to do with the laws? I really like the cool desktop dashboard these girls all have. I want one of these just to have it. They’re going to practice parallel parking tomorrow! Grundy seems like a good teacher.

At dinner, the three men including Frank are eating the food that I assume that Mary cooked. She is trying to make conversation within the very surreal seating arrangement. She and Uncle Fucking Frank sit across from each other like they’re a married couple, with Reggie and Archie occupying the sides. She wants to know if anything interesting happened at school. Reggie tells her that they were shown a video of what happens if you get nuked. ARchie says he wants to join the merchant marines. She wants him to finish high school. She also wants him to go to college.

Frank is still on his Must Make Archie Stop Writing Grief Poetry About His Father bender, so he says that the merchant marines might be better than going to college to learn poetry writing like some sort of man who has sex with other men. He doesn’t say this last part, of course. Reggie searches Archie for his reaction. Archie though does have a spine. He tells Frank directly that he is considering going out to see expressly so he can pursue his poetry better. He even name drops The Beats. Then he actually takes a jab:

YOU WOULD KNOW THAT IF YOU EVER CRACKED OPEN A BOOK.

Well OKAY Archie Andrews! Unleash that bitchiness! Feeling bitchy makes you smarter! Embrace it!

Frank is not amused at having the tables turned on him, and yet again, Mary is not as useless as she used to be (but this is a fiction within a fiction, because in-universe actual Mary really is quite useless - case in point, FRANK STILL LIVES THERE). Mary interrupts what’s clearly an attack that Frank is scrambling to put together against her son by saying, “No one is joining anything tonight.”

Meanwhile, Dilton has come to visit Jughead. “You don’t have to worry Jughead. [blah blah] If anything bad were to actually happen I’d take care of you. You’d be safe.”

This is as clear a declaration of love as I’ve ever heard anyone make in Riverdale short of Jughead’s I Love You Betty Cooper all the way back in Season 1. But Jughead, in the same way that he did not pick up that he should date Ethel Muggs, doesn’t understand what Dilton is saying as a love confession. Poor Dilton.

Instead, Jughead wants to know what the hell Dilton means by “keep him safe.”

Dilton takes Jughead Jones to THE BUNKER!

Hi Bunker, my old friend!

Jughead sounds like James Stewart from Mr. Smith Goes To Washington as he exclaims, “How does your family have a bunker!?!” He sounds like he should be married to Katherine Hepburn in a movie. He sounds like this a lot this season and I thoroughly enjoy it. The tribute to Stars of Old is at the level of Josie McCoy being rendered an Eartha Kitt tribute character last episode, but much more subtle and baked into the general character portrayal for this season.

Anyway, Dilton is very proud of his dad. He grins like a little kid, excited because Jughead is excited, as he tells him that “we’re deep enough to survive an atomic blast, and any radiation after the blast.”

Jughead wants to know why the science teacher built this at all. “What does your dad know that we don’t?”

Dilton starts to unpack all the secrets, literally from his bag. He hands a little chunk of palladium to Jughead from his knapsack, saying Mr. Muggs came to get this assessed by the elder Doiley saying that Clifford Blossom was doing something with palladium. “Worth killing for?” asks Jughead.

Apparently, in its purest state, palladium could be “more volatile than plutonium,.... and more destructive than a hydrogen bomb.”

Palladium is a highly useful narrative tool, that’s for sure.

Jughead says reminds him of something, and then he is madly digging through his collection of comics. Jughead seems to have a photographic memory of every comic he’s ever read. Not sure this talent will ever get him any money, but it is a talent. The story he was thinking of was written by Rayberry, called The Palladium Incident! “Had he seen or heard something while he worked there??

We cut to the science teacher bursting in to make the announcement, in a hysterical scream of unhelpfulness, about “This is the big one.” In response, all the children in the class start freaking out too. The only one with a slow response time is Jughead Jones. Everyone else is hollering, on their feet, moving around, flapping their arms. Jughead acts like he’s sleep walking. Cheryl is the one that goes running to get him to some sort of safety. She is shouting at him to “Get away from the!!!” as he walks, fascinated, to the window which is getting brighter and brighter. As the bomb explodes, Jughead still has this very ‘interested’ look on his face from when he was looking at the melting man get shot in the street.

This turns out to be a nightmare of Cheryl’s. She had a dream about trying to save Jughead Jones when the bomb hit. I’m very moved, actually. She curses his name before she goes to fetch herself some water.

On her way back to her room, she hears her parents having a discussion. IN RUSSIAN. Clifford says that things are in readiness (apparently - I really have no idea, and I have my suspicions about American/Canadian actors’ capacity to speak passable Russian) to which Penelope says that it’s unfortunate what happened to the man, but Clifford is fine with the state of Project Moloch. Then they are going to return to the motherland.

Cheryl Blossom speaks … Russian? She is understanding this? Clifford apparently has been promised something by the Soviets. Penelope is a Russian spy! Cheryl runs away.

At the recruitment presentation by the Merchant Marines, Archie wants to know if he gets to explore the places they can visit. The answer he gets is very unkind - “This isn’t a pleasure cruise” plus “no one here is guaranteed a spot.” Well, ok sir, but I thought the point of your visit was to RECRUIT.

In the hallway, Jughead is approaching Cheryl. He actually does a little sing-songy “Hi Ho~~” which is very cute and again for some reason reminds me of Jimmy Stewart though I’m sure he’s never done that. Who knows. Cheryl is very annoyed to be approached by Jughead, which is not improved when he opens bluntly with this question: Has anything weird been happening at your house lately?

He really doesn’t know what a can of worms he’s opened. Cheryl is making a face at him like, oh you sweet clueless child, you have no idea what you’re about to unleash. What she says is, “Why do you care?” Jughead says that he’s interested in the location of the mines she mentioned yesterday vis a vis the maple factor. Cheryl confirms that the factory is built right on top of the mines. Jughead says, going straight to the point, “I think you father is up to no good,” and then without even taking a break to let that settle in her mind he jumps right to accusation: “I think he is involved in the Milkman murders.” Then he adds the mines are palladium mines, plus not abandoned.

This is a method that Jughead is pretty consistent about throughout the seasons - he gets a set of facts, intuits something, gets a clue or a hint that he might be on the right track, and then goes directly to the source to launch accusations. The thing is, it WORKS this time because he went to Cheryl and not to Clifford Blossom, and even if she doesn’t like Jeronica, Cheryl definitely wouldn’t let Jughead just die if she could do something about it.

As a sort of unintended test, perhaps, Cheryl brings up that she thinks her father might sacrifice her to the pagan god Moloch. Jughead blinks about it but he doesn’t laugh or run away or attack her, so he passes this test.

As a result, Cheryl feels free to tell him forthwith (they’re being very forthright with each other here, which is great) that her parents were speaking in Russian with each other (she didn’t understand what they said, though, alas). Jughead, having found a kindred spirit in an unexpected place, immediately asks her to “get in there and play gumshoe.” At the thought of finding “something incriminating” against her parents, Cheryl looks bright eyed, bushy tailed, and inspired. She’s never looked at Jughead like that, ever.

OUtside, in the parking lot, suspenseful music plays as the girls are gearing up for their first parallel parking lesson. The performance anxiety of doing this in front of like A DOZEN PEOPLE is horrifying to me, but Ethel does a wonderful job. They all passed the written and practical portions of the test! Grundy is going to be taking all of them to the DMV to get their licenses! She says that they must bring their birth certificates, because the DMV “needs to make sure none of you are Russian spies.” She says it in a way that makes it clear she thinks it’s silly, but Ethel suddenly looks sad. Oh dear. Does she not own a single valid form of ID??

Archie is working out using a rigged up rowing machine in the garage. Uncle Fucking Frank of course has to investigate. I feel like there’s something off kilter about the way Frank keeps such close tabs on Archie. It’s most like Archie is a girl whose virginity is supposed to be safeguarded. Apparently everyone rows at least an hour a day to stay in shape, so Archie is trying to get a head start.

Frank has the temerity to give Archie a man to man, I Know I’m Not Your Real Dad speech, unprompted. Against all available evidence, Frank claims that he wants “what is best” for Archie, and that what he wants is “same as” what Fred would want. I was very worried for a second that he was going to sexually molest Archie, because this sounds like a sexual molestation set up. But it isn’t. Instead he gives Fred’s dog tags to Archie. Then he tries to get Archie to enlist in the army.

Fred apparently wasn’t drafted. He volunteered for the army. This is supposed to make Archie feel better? I mean it makes ME like Fred a lot, because it’s MY democracy and MY freedom that people like Fred suffered and died so far from home, but I don’t see how Archie, who is so terribly wounded about his father’s death is supposed to feel better. Also why oh why does Frank want Archie to die so badly, like WHAT IS HIS PROBLEM? “Drop this poetry nonsense and join the army!” Turning that spooky sexual maniac look on Archie again from before (it’s the same face he made calling Betty a ripe peach - vomit, phlegm, poop, bile, all the vileness, FIE) he says that “the best part about joining the Army” is that he “doesn’t have to wait until graduation.”

I mean. OK so in th 1950s Americans weren’t all having to earn PhDs in order to get entry level jobs like they have had to recently, but this still strikes me as absolute shit advice, AND going expressly against Mary’s clearly stated wishes.

Meanwhile, Cheryl is exploring her house using a three color candelabra at the dead of night. She is so dramatic omg I love her. “Let’s see what you’re hiding, daddy,” she mutters to herself in an empty room like a totally sane girl. She finds a hardhat in his desk with a lamp attached to the forehead portion. The candles react to a draft she wasn’t expecting to exist in this room, so she pursues the source of the airflow and finds a SECRET PASSAGE hidden behind a portrait!

Oh my gosh I love Thornhill so much.

This hidden compartment reveals A DOZEN milkman costumes!!! Complete with full pristine sets of glass milk bottles!!! Ooooh!

The next morning, Archie is being haunted by his dad’s dog tags which make his world tilt at a weird angle. He wears the dog tags to breakfast, freaking Mary out. She’s innocently asking about how many waffles he wants, but her world is about to implode. She wants to know why Frank gave those to Archie.

At the same time, Ethel wants to talk to Betty. She doesn’t have her birth certificate because it’s somewhere in her house. Betty is so kind to Ethel, immediately offering to go get it for Ethel. The document is probably inside Ethel’s mother’s crafting desk, which held all her important papers.

At school, Cheryl sees Jughead coming towards her, so she grabs him firmly by the lapel to drag the physically head-and-half taller boy forcibly into the music room. This is. uh. This is very hot to me even though I know Cheryl is a gold star lesbian in her heart. Anyway this is a first time experience for Jughead, being grabbed and tossed by a girl. I bet he didn’t know that cheerleaders have good upper body strength and powerful grips.

Immediately after, Jughead gets to have another new experience: A person with no reason to be particularly nice or supportive of him telling him that You Were Right. He’s so flummoxed by this reaction that he seeks reconfirmation: “About which part?” The answer is ‘Everything!”

She brought one of the giant milk bottles in her purse, which did not look like it could fit something that big.

Jughead has been saying an interesting series of oaths this episode (“Holy crapola!” in response to the bunker, “Holy Moley” about something else I forget) so he busts out Holy Toledo at the news that Cheryl’s father has sets of milk bottles and the uniforms that go with the milk bottles hidden in his study. He concludes, “The Milkman must have been working for your father! Doing his bidding!”

And because he’s a sweetheart who reads a lot of scary fiction, Jughead immediately asks Cheryl, “Are you in danger?” to which Cheryl has the coolest like, pretty girl working as an agent of the Resistance during Vichy type answer, which is “No more than usual.” She does look extremely worried. Cheryl had an extremely busy night of investigating, because she is also able to confirm that the mines a) do produce palladium and b) are not abandoned. She demands that Jughead bring his camera to her family estate that very night. She further instructs that he “pray an atomic disaster doesn’t befall us all before then!” before she takes off.

Betty walks into the abandoned murder house to try to do a nice thing for Ethel Muggs. She’s very brave. I would not be able to do this. She’s shifting through the desk, and finds a lockbox. She opens it with her hairpin! Her skirt pattern is very pretty. She finds what look like a series of receipts - that Hal Cooper was paying the Muggs for. And then she finds a photo of Hal Cooper HOLDING A BABY. What? What??

At dinner that night at the Andrews house, Mary has some things to say. She informs Frank that Archie has told her about the whole thing with the dog tags. “You used his father … to try to manipulate my son into joining the army. How dare you Frank? Especially when you yourself never served.”

Frank tries to speak homophobia code to Mary: “It’ll set him straight!” he says.

Mary however is too obtuse to pick up on it. She still thinks this is about Archie writing poetry. She finally - FINALLLYYYYY - lays down the law. That Archie can make whatever choices he wants with his life after he graduates high school. That is non negotiable for Mary, this high school graduation. Archie indicates with a nod that he gets the message.

Then she says that she “can’t have Frank here anymore. It’s time for you to move out.”

You mean to say that she had the power all this time, to kick Frank out, and DID NOT?

Then her sexist homophobic brother in law and her clueless sexist son have a dick measuring contest IN FRONT OF HER about who is going to be the man of the house. Frank is an underhanded piece of shit too, reminding her that she’s the one who invited him to Riverdale to ‘help.’ (So really, Mary is doubly guilty, first for inviting him, and second for letting him punish Archie for existing like that). Mary reminds them both that she’s the one who pays for the mortgage which.. again… HOW? She doesn’t have a bank account, right? Or did she inherit Fred’s when he died?

Looking suddenly at peace, Frank says that he’s going to “shack up with my old pal Tom Keller.” He makes a deeply inappropriate comparison between himself and Keller - Keller is being divorced by his wife of almost twenty years with whom he has a son. This is not the same relationship that Frank has with Mary!

Mary doesn’t care what Frank does as long as the “bullying uncle” is out of the house. Frank was living rent free in this house, yet he was so desperate about Archie’s poetry that he was willing to make him drop out of high school to join the army!

Betty goes home to ask her parents why they were writing checks to the Muggs household. Mrs Muggs was their housekeeper! is the first lie that Hal tries to tell. Betty then wants to know who the baby is. It’s Ethel, so Betty has to cross examine her dad. Hal says that it’s because he’s Ethel’s godfather. Betty wants to know why she’s never heard of any of this.

Alice stops Hal from telling any more lies.

“You’re Ethel’s father, aren’t you?” Betty concludes.

Alice kicks Hal out of the house for a bit so she can share an alcoholic drink with her daughter. the real story is that Mildred Muggs was their housekeeper before Betty was born. Alice suspected an affair between Mrs. Muggs and Hal which was confirmed when Ethel was born. The reason they hid all this was because of the TV station. Everything Alice says after that first thing is a lie - she doesn’t give a fuck about “us, our family.” She wanted a tv career because Alice has always has had a career obsession. When she says she ‘had no choice’ she means there was no other way for her to have a career on television than to be married to Hal Cooper. So the arrangement was that the Muggs would raise the girl ‘as their own’ (which she was, she was Mildred’s own) while the Coopers sent money every month for support (from Hal).

Betty puts it together again. That this is why Alice took Ethel in, but hated her, humiliated her, had her forcibly imprisoned in the child abuse nunnery and so on. And that this is why she was on such a rampage about Betty coming to adulthood. Except Betty doesn’t say that - she concludes that Alice didn’t “want what happened to you to happen to me.” What, your husband a middle class white man predating on a working class woman? How would having Kevin pin Betty over Archie fix anything? Kevin is much more likely to have impregnated a lot of women in his life if he’d not been able to actually come out at least to himself by Betty dumping him. This doesn’t make sense, but then, Betty in S7 is really stupid, and so is her mother so I guess this explanation is enough for both of their levels of intellect.

Alice starts weeping about how she failed as a mother and she’s sorry, but like I said, I don’t believe that motherhood, her daughters with Hal or “doing what was right” was in any way part of Alice’s calculations. She simply wanted to hold on to having a tv career above dignity, above her own sanity, above her sexual well being. Betty says that she thinks Alice did the best she could, because Betty is a kind person, but this is categorically wrong. Alice has acted purely out of malice towards Ethel and sexual jealousy for Betty (in that Betty had youth and an unblemished future without any bad compromises spread out ahead of her).

Betty says that they need to call Hal back home so they can all tell Ethel she is a Cooper. I hope Ethel axes them all to death in their sleep.

Meanwhile, Cheryl and Jughead are having their adventure in the dark of night. Jughead takes a hugely flashing photo of the night guard at the mines, who is watching Oh Mija. Then they sneak past him to the mines. The cooperative bickering-affirming dynamic they have between them is truly great. When Jughead wants to know why there aren’t more guards, Cheryl points out that secret projects should maybe not call “undue attention” upon themselves, which Jughead concedes immediately is a good point.

Jughead even gets the mojo back to narrate for a bit, as he says that while Cheryl and he were on the verge of a major discovery, Ethel was “experiencing emotional shockwaves about learning the truth about her life.”

Ethel says that she always felt like her parents’ discord was her fault, and that there was a lot of discord. “That explains things” is what she says, with so much dignity. The Coopers offer to adopt her, to “make things right.” Extremely elegantly, Ethel rejects their offer immediately. She says that what she wants is to be happy, which you can’t possibly be with Hal and Alice Cooper as your parents in any capacity. She wants nothing to do with these people. Ethel is the only one with a brain cell in this entire community. Good for her, and her smarts.

Frank is finally leaving. The little family is seeing him off. Reggie first. Then Frank finagles a final invitation to a regular home cooked meal (“Sunday dinner”) from Mary, who apparently is wonderful at cooking as she is at dress-and-halloween-costume making. She still invites him, which is a level of forgiveness that I don’t think I am capable of mustering, even to be polite. As he says goodbye to Archie, Frank asks that Archie not “hold things against him.” Archie tries to teach Frank that writing poetry is not an emasculating activity. He specifically says that men in trenches in the fields of war have written beautiful poems. Maybe that’s my path, he says, and Mary shakes her head a FIRM FUCKIN’ NO about dying in war. They send him off. They’re playing sentimental music over this, but I have to confess I do not understand why. He’s been hateful, overbearing and condescending to them the entire time he’s been here. They had a big blowout fight after he tried to induce Archie to drop out of high school to join the army, which is both expressly against Mary’s wishes and without any consultation with her. Why are they making nicey nice?

Can Frank please die now? I am tired of hating him (though the hate is still going very strong.)

In the photo development room, Cherly and Jughead are talking about what to do with the evidence they have found. Cheryl wants to take these to Sheriff Keller. Jughead disagrees, saying Keller might be in on it too. “He’s just a dimwitted small-town sheriff that’s in over his head,” is Cheryl’s fantastic little summary of the stupid father of the awful Kevin. Jughead wants to make this federal, not local, and is going to tap Veronica’s contacts with the FBI from when they were investigated her father. Cheryl is impressed that Jughead Jones is capable of this much serious, rational thought. I also wonder if she likes the idea of getting the feds involved or not. In any case she calls him, playfully, “Sherlock Jones” which is some Veronica level moniker coinage, I must say.

Cheryl now wants to know if Jughead and Veronica are “officially an item.” She …

Cheryl and Jughead have actually friendly banter! I am pleased as punch. They have really nice chemistry! Cheryl says, gently teasing, that she suspects Jughead might be “in over his crown” in trying to be in a relationship with Veronica Lodge, to which Jughead snaps back, bringing some bravado to it, that he is “holding his own.”

One of the photos they took is of Jughead leaning very suggestively up against the very phallic looking palladium bomb.

Cut to the family meal at Thornhill when they get an unexpected banging on the door. Cheryl leaps up, offering brightly to “go get it.” Ooh ok so I was wrong. She was purely pleased about involving the feds in this. She lets in Glen(!) and the other G-Men. She apparently even summoned them at this exact time.

Clifford’s full name is Clifford Marion Blossom, and Penelope’s name is

Penelope Pavlina Novikov Blossom.

Which I am going to commit to memory immediately.

However, point of order here - shouldn’t that be Pavlina NovikoVA Blossom??

The Blossoms are arrested for “treason, conspiracy, and advocating for the violent overthrow of the American government.” Moreover, the FBI is going to shut down “Project Moloch” which makes Clifford jump with surprise.

Cheryl manages to get the last word in: “You did a bad thing, Daddy.”

She stole wholesale, all of Veronica Lodge’s bag from right under her. No conflicts of interest despite being the daughter, either. Because Veronica always waffled over Hiram. Not Cheryl. My hero. MVP of Riverdale for real.

Jughead sounds excited as he relays that the world eventually learned that the American capitalist had been seduced by a Russian sleeper agent,. The plan was thus:

From the A-bomb to the H-bomb to the P-bomb!

Clifford Blossom pretended to be developing the P Bomb for the US government but in fact was going to sell it to the Russians. The FBI took credit for foiling this plan, which Jughead says was “fine by” him except it wasn’t because he’s setting the record straight here. In any case, he says he did manage to “put the rest of the pieces together.”

Jughead still needs to worship a father figure, and fortunately for him FP doesn’t exist in this AU and Rayberry died, so he’s quite safe. His hagiographic treatment of Rayberry is that even though all Rayberry did was use what he was worried about from his job at the maple factory to write obscure stories in an obscure comic book the “brilliant, terrifying” nature of these stories is enough to stand him in good stead. The thing is, Rayberry apparently died directly because he fell in a sort of love with Jughead Jones. When he invoked the First Amendment on Jughead’s behalf, he “spooked” the powers that be, which made Mayor Blossom sicc his hitman on him.

By the same token, Mr Muggs somehow, as the janitor, obtaining proof positive that the Blossoms were sitting on top of a stockpile of palladium similarly made him a target. We are shown Ethel pack up her bag to leave to go somewhere. Her last meeting in town seems to be with Jughead, who really just does not really care what the plot was, because she paid all the prices for everyone’s secrets from day 1 to literally the moment when Alice Cooper decided to do a nice thing for Ethel purely (and I do mean PURELY) for the purposes of fucking Betty over.

But Ethel is unendingly kind to Jughead who is very obtusely obsessed with telling her how bad it all was, when all she wants to do is LEAVE. She tells him, with the same dignified graciousness she’s exhibited throughout, that all his crazy eyed efforts make her “hope for a better tomorrow.” To his credit, Jughead seems very moved by her elegance, looking at her with misty eyes as she departs with Ben.

Ben calls her Lovebug!!!!!!

Alice is deeply resentful (because she is evil) of Ethel getting to leave Riverdale and for Hollywood, to get a real job at a real movie studio, based purely on her talents. This is not a caliber of career that either of her daughters is ever going to achieve. Of course she’s going to try to stop her. As usual, Veronica has taken care of everything like the generous queen that she is - gotten Ethel a job, a connection to a powerful person who will feel obligated to look in on Ethel and give her some protection while she figures out the ropes and a place to live.

You know, Tabitha may be the Guardian Angel of Riverdale but Veronica is the patron saint of Riverdalian hopes and dreams. “Give them hell Ethel!” Veronica says. Betty says she wants to visit Ethel. Jughead and Ethel hugfarewell. “I’ll miss you. You always were the best partner in crime,” Jughead says.

Why do I still get the feeling that Ethel is just a little bit in love with Jughead Jones? She pats him gently on the face, telling him not to be “too sad” because they will “always have Pep Comics.” Jughead really does look very sad about her departure.

Alice tells Ethel that she’s going to be just fine, and keeps touching Ethel and I wish she wouldn’t. Because I don’t trust Alice at all.

Jughead says that Ethel was the first to leave Riverdale. (Ben Button is apparently going with her to California but is going to come right back? Or is he so irrelevant he doesn’t count?) Ethel drives out to the tune of NOTHING CAN STOP ME NOW! in her wonderful looking yellow car. I’m glad the pageant didn’t stiff her with the car. Jughead has this to say:

“All of the pieces were falling into place, but it was just about time to find out if our little town would be avoiding an even greater cataclysm.”

I’m so glad Ethel got a great exit. I really am. I still think she should’ve gotten to fuck Jughead though, just to realize it isn’t all that.

#riverdale opinion #omg it's almost to the end and this was actually a good episode #ethel muggs #riverdale s7 recap #riverdale s7 #riverdale episode recap

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