i think cass and duke both have (different) complicated relationships with whether or not they see bruce as their father (or even the bats as their family) but we’re not allowed to talk about that bc people would just use it as another excuse to exclude them

I am. So fucking tired of Batman being portrayed as a bad parent and a toxic person. And it’s so goddamn widespread. Fuck, it might be as bad as the whole “Superman being a kindhearted Boy Scout is boring” take.

I get it, the man’s not exactly stable, he watched his parents get murdered in front of him and spent years of his life training to fight crime dressed like a giant scary bat, of course he’s not perfect.

But to say that Bruce Wayne isn’t caring, isn’t empathetic, to call him abusive…it just misses the point of who the character is to me.

Why do you think he fights crime? Yes, part of it is because he’s bitter and sad because his parents were cruelly ripped from him as a child, and he’s lashing out against the corruption of his city. It’s arguably the focus of his earlier years. But he learns to become more than that. He learns to bring hope, a chance to be better.

Harleen Quinzel is the Joker’s right hand lady, but she’s also a victim of an abusive relationship and a woman with a surprisingly strong moral compass and a love for animals, and wants to get better. That’s why we see time and time again that he has a noticeable soft spot for her, because he knows that she’s a good person at her core.

Harvey Dent is a man who will decide someone’s fate on a coin toss(and a pretty inaccurate depiction of DID), but he’s also Bruce’s close friend who clearly needs help learning to live with his condition, rather than try to get rid of it, and someone who he still goes out of his way to visit, even after everything, because he recognizes he’s not just a criminal with a weird gimmick, he’s a man who is struggling with a condition that he’s mishandled his whole life.

Victor Fries is a cold, emotionless man who will callously discard allies and blame them for being careless, but he’s also a man who’s either lashing out because he had the love of his life taken from him, or just desperate to make sure she isn’t taken from him, and is willing to do anything just to guarantee her survival. Of course Batman would understand, his whole life was defined by having people he loved taken away from him.

Even the Joker, arguably one of the most morally bankrupt characters in all of fiction, is someone that Batman has offered a chance to. After the guy shoots the daughter of his friend, a girl he cared for like she was his own kid, and paralyzes her from the waist down, he tells the Joker that he doesn’t want to hurt him. He wants to get him help. He looks at this monster who has taken countless lives and says “You don’t have to be alone.”

For fuck’s sake, he sat with Joe Chill in his last moments so that he wouldn’t be alone. Joe Chill, the man who murdered his parents, who took so much from him, the person responsible for all of the misery and suffering he’s gone through. And he sits with the man to comfort him while dies. Do you know how much emotional intelligence and maturity that must take? To comfort someone who arguably ruined your life?

And you’re gonna tell me the man who did that would abuse his kids?

That he’d hold up the young man whose death was his greatest failure, the boy he grieved, and say this?

That he’d look his goddamn son in the eyes and say this to him?

Why the FUCK do you think he took in Dick Grayson in the first place? It wasn’t because he saw the kid and thought “Ah. A potential soldier.”, it was because he saw a boy experiencing the same heartbreaking loss he had so many years ago, and wanted to make sure he didn’t end up as bitter and miserable as he was.

Why do you think he smiled when Tim Drake presented him a broken watch for Father’s Day? Because he was just happy to see the boy alive and safe.

DAMIAN LITERALLY POINTED AT A COW AND SAID “I’m keeping her. She’s Bat-Cow.” AND BRUCE JUST WENT WITH IT. DIDN’T EVEN NEED TO ARGUE WHY BRUCE SHOULD LET HIM KEEP HER. HE SAID “this cow is my pet now” AND BRUCE SAID “aight, bet”.

The thing about Batman is that he wants to make sure nobody else ends up feeling the way he does. That’s not just about stopping a mugger so a boy’s parents aren’t gunned down. It’s about giving his loved ones the support and care that he couldn’t have, because it was taken from him. It’s about comforting someone who just went through a traumatic experience and letting them know that they’re going to be okay. It’s about going to someone locked away in a cell who thinks that they’re a lost cause and a burden to society and telling them that he wants to help them get better. It’s about EMPATHY and COMPASSION.

That’s what makes him a HERO. He’s meant to inspire us, to show us that we can have that same empathy for others around us, that we can turn our suffering into hope for a better future.

I just wish more people at DC would start recognizing that. But I might as well follow that example myself. Maybe through this struggle of having to see this hero mistreat the people around him and act like a grade-A jackass, people will start to recognize that missing compassion, and slowly but surely, it might come back. After all, what is this post, if not trying to bring attention to the matter in the hopes of fixing it?

How would the Batfamily and Venom react to the reader starting to see Superman as a father and having a secret desire to want to live with him and his family?

Ohhh, they would hate it. All of the Batfamily would hate it. Especially Alfred but he would stay silent and just tell Bruce.

Bruce would feel even more horrible since he knows how he treated you, especially with Venom taunting him.

He already feels bad about being a horrible father to you but when he sees you treating Clark, one of his 'enemies', as your father he would feel so much worse.

He would hate to do that but he would manage to make Venom modify your memories or make Clark someone you don't see as a father but a friend.

He also would spend even more time with you, you think that you felt soffucated before? Oh you don't know how much the man is desperate to make up for years of neglect. He would spend almost everyday with you, taking you everywhere and following you if you need the bathroom but would wait outside to 'respect' the last bit of privacy you still had.

He would also slowly manipulate you while you spend time with him, wanting you to see him as your father and not some guy you absolutely loathe. It's a slow process, especially since the hatred you have for anyone who's a Wayne is so deep that even Venom has trouble to change it slowly so you won't notice it.

Dick would be devastated and won't even try to hide that he knows even though Bruce told him to be subtle. He would tackle you on the couch/bed and bawl his eyes out while apologising about being such a horrible brother that you would want to stay with Clark.

God he would be so dramatic and trying to guilt trip you, which backfires with you reminding him of every time he ditched you and called you the wrong name for Damian or Tim.

Which makes him even more desperate to make you stay, even considering breaking your legs even though Venom would heal them.

You would think Jason won't be mad about it and actually support you since he says that he hates Batman but god you were wrong.

He wouldn't hurt you, but would manipulate you in making you stay by doubting your relationship with Clark and making you think he just saw you as another annoying kid.

Jason would be one of the worst ones to find out, he would do everything to stop you from going with Clark.

He can't just let you leave, not when he still didn't make up for the fact that he let another person get ruined because of Bruce.

Tim would resent the kryptonian and make sure to find ways to make Clark visit you, even when he brings his sons so they can finally meet you.

He would spend even more time with you if that was possible but is not overly clingy like Dick or very clearly manipulating you like Jason.

He just spends time with you, playing games and others to try and distract you from Clark. Which you would like after being hugged and bothered by his older brothers.

Damian would be silent and not really say anything. Which is weird since he usually never shuts up about everything he can do to show off.

He would be a bit clingy, which he wasn't before, and just ask forgiveness for whatever he did in the past.

Which would surprise both you and Venom. You won't forgive him immediately, like come on, the kid tormented you for years, but you will make a small effort to interact with him.

Especially seeing him actually cry, making you hug him and not see his smirk since you're doing exactly what he wants you to do.

Sorry if it's a bit short, I am a bit sick and busy but I hope you all like it!

something about tim & dick’s relationship makes me feel so. !!!

they are both such complex characters and it really makes my heart feel so heavy to think about them for too long.

like. dick created robin out of his parents blood. the costume was inspired by his family's colors. the name was one he was given by his mother and the only reason he took up the role was because he wanted to get justice (revenge really) for his parents death. he was taken in by bruce who was SO YOUNG at the time and who was still learning how to cope with his own loss still. their relationship was built off of that shared grief and understanding. but then one day, dick learned to let go of that grief. he was able to not let it consume and control him. and he grew tired of living in the dark nest that bruce built for them. and bruce doesn't know how to deal with someone else he loves leaving him so he kicks dick out. like yes bruce is dick's father figure of course he is. but he was also his brother in a weird way. dick didn't want or need for his parents to be replaced so bruce offered him something different. he offered him a partnership. and partners are supposed to be equal but somehow bruce ended up placing himself higher than dick and it was suffocating so he had to leave.

and in dicks absence, bruce finds another kid. this time, it's a kid who does need a parent. jason's relationship with bruce is so different than the one that dick had and i have to imagine that it hurt. it hurts to see your father be better for someone else. it makes you think why? why not me? why wasn't i good enough? and to make matters worse bruce gave away dick's blood without a second thought. jason is given the mantle of robin and my god i cannot imagine the pain it caused dick to see someone else flying around in his colors. that was his name. and dick is still just a kid. yeah he's like legally an adult but his prefrontal cortex was nowhere near developed. so he's bitter and short and rude to jason. he has to take time to get used to having another kid at the manor and another kid in his colors but its fine! its fine! he does come around eventually and his guard starts to come down and he commits to being there for jason. but it was too late. dick leaves the planet to be a hero and when he comes back? jason is dead. the kid he was just starting to get used to is dead.

not only is he dead, but he's already in the ground and bruce? bruce goddamn wayne didn't even bother to tell him. how in the world could bruce ever consider them partners. as far as dick was concerned bruce was just as good as dead to him as jason was. and it hurts. it hurts to not be able to go home without seeing the ghost of a kid you chose not to protect, the ghost of a kid who died too soon wearing the same colors that your parents died in.

so dick doesn't go home. he doesn't speak to bruce. he builds himself a new life, the teen titans become dicks home. and he's okay with this. his origin is so similar to bruce's but he refuses to be the same as batman. so he faces his ghosts. he doesn't let them haunt him. he hears about haly's circus potentially getting shut down and he goes to deal with it.

and here is where dick meets tim drake for the first time. tim who tried to help him save haly's circus (albeit he accused the wrong guy but he was trying). tim tells dick that he needs to save batman.

and so dick brings him back to the manor. where tim tells dick just how important he was to his childhood. tim explains how that night at the circus shaped him just as deeply as it shaped dick. tim shares this complete and utter faith in robin, as if robin is enough to save batman from his own grief. but dick knows this isn't true. dick was barely enough to save himself from his own grief much less bruces. but nonetheless bruce saved dick when he was at his absolute lowest. gave him something to believe in. so maybe, just maybe, he can try again for bruce. but not as robin. it can't be robin. his partnership with batman died when he was kicked out and it was buried when he was kept out of the loop about jason. but tim knows that batman needs more than nightwing by his side. so he takes up the robin mantle. he takes it upon himself to 'save' batman. and in a way, he does. he helps bring bruce back from the edge.

and dick. the last time someone took up his families colors, someone died. and he refuses to allow that again. he refuses to be the reason that tim suffers. so he becomes the older brother he couldn't quite bring himself to be for jason. and to tim? he's wearing the mantle of two robins on his back.

his own standards are set so high and he tries his damndest to meet them every time that he puts on the mask because he knows where the colors of the suit came from. he knows why dick created this identity. he was there. he saw the grayson's fall.

and for a while, things are good between them. things are great even.

then the attack at titan's tower happens. and tim is told that he is just a placeholder (not a replacement like fannon likes to claim, but the words jason todd used were placeholder). and seeds of doubt start to be planted. was he ever wanted? was he ever truly appreciated? he did steal the suit the first time he put it on. was it fair for him to wear the colors that were born of dicks blood and that jason died in?

then tim loses his whole support system. stephanie. bart and kon. his dad. and finally, bruce.

dick has been so committed to never being like bruce. he has been so dedicated to relying on those who offer him help. nightwing is pillar in the hero community, but batman. batman was the foundation. he is considered a founding member of the justice league. he doesn't want to take up the mantle. it had never been in his plans. but jason proved too unstable to take up the role and of course he can't ask tim to. so he dawns the cowl he has grown to hate.

this just leaves one little problem. damian.

damian who has just been dropped off on bruce's porch by talia. damian who grew up in the league of assassins and is so out of place in gotham that dick doesn't know what to do. he never asked to be batman and he definitely never asked to be a father. yet here he is. having to do both. so he does what bruce did all those years ago and provides damian with the mantle that he created in order to give this kid some sort of outlet. he knows damian needs it.

by some unfortunate twist of fate, dick has unknowingly created such a painful parallel between his own firing and tim's.

and then tim discovers that bruce isn't really dead.

and this kills dick just a little bit more. of course he wants to believe tim. of course he wants his dad back. he wants someone else to be the one to make these hard calls and he wants someone else to parent damian. he doesn't want to be the one who has to fire his little brother in order to save the other.

but he can't take that chance. he can't risk the hope. because losing it would actually ruin dick. so he tells tim it isn't possible. because to dick? it can't be possible.

and this just furthers the wedge between the two of them. tim feels abandoned and lost and he feels as if he has nothing left.

and dick doesn't understand why tim can't see that he's right here. he's right here tim i'm still here why aren't i enough for you to stay?

anyway this got away from me a little bit but god their relationship could make angels weep it truly makes my heart stop if i think about it too much.

why do you think tim agreed to be adopted if he doesn’t really see bruce as his father? is there anything parental happening in there??

He does! And he doesn't! And it is and isn't. It's a wonderfully messy thing!

To answer the first question first, there are a lot of reasons for Tim to be adopted no matter what. On the milder side, it's logistically convenient to have a guardian, and specifically to have one that is aware of and endorses his vigilantism.

But more than that, in the time after his dad died, Tim was in a very dark place. One of the things Tim does when in a dark place is self-isolate. He made up this whole fake uncle thing to stop Bruce from adopting him after the first offer, so that he could live completely on his own without being beholden to anyone. And that was bad for him! Self-isolating is bad for Tim!

So in that sense, accepting Bruce's second offer of adoption is a huge symbol that Tim is doing better. He (and Bruce and Dick) had the whole One Year Later cruise around the world to heal and improve, and Tim is less locked in grief now and willing to connect. And he shows this by accepting an offer of adoption from someone who loves him and choosing to live in a house with people he loves too. Hooray!

Because, no matter what, he does care about Bruce. And he cares about Alfred, who he independently had a close relationship with, and about Dick, who'd been calling Tim his little brother for years. (Dick and Alfred being the other members of the family at this point.)

So I don't think it really has to be father/son at all between Bruce and Tim for Tim to agree to be adopted, nor for it to be a good thing.

That said, I also don't think it's entirely not parental. I was being a little silly and flippant in that post, because I do think Bruce and Tim are weird about their vaguely defined relationship.

It is an absolutely key part of that relationship that, for ~4 years, Bruce and Tim were Batman and Robin, and worked closely together, and cared about each other, and were not father and son at all. Because Tim still had his own dad! Of course Bruce wasn't his dad! That would be just weird.

That doesn't mean there's nothing paternal to their relationship in the Robin years. Adult mentor/kid protege, sure there are absolutely angles here.

And it also doesn't mean they never became father and son after the adoption. A lot of this is based on vibes and personal interpretation! There's this story shortly after Tim's adoption where he puts a lot of effort into getting Bruce a perfect father's day gift. They do refer to each other as father/son periodically when talking to others.

My personal read on it is that Tim was very consciously trying to Be A Proper Family after the adoption, and adjust super fast. And I do think that by the point Bruce "dies" (or maybe at that point?), Tim sees him as more of a father.

(Also I think probably Tim is Bruce's son much more than Bruce is Tim's dad. Or at least sooner. Again, vibes.)

But I also don't think they necessarily need to be defined so sharply. They're never going to be like Jason and Bruce, who were father and son right away, or even Dick and Bruce, who were family and ward/guardian right away. They are always going to have known each other as non-family first. Which doesn't mean they aren't going to care about each other.

But I think it should mean they get to be little weirdos about how they do define their relationship when forced to.

AU where Talia decided to raise Damian in Metropolis and Jason decided to ignore Batman and go with her

Damian is still trained, but not as intensely (Talia allowed it because she knows very well how many enemies Ra's and Batman have, she wants her son to be ready to defend himself if necessary, but always vigilant so that Damian's training is not exhausting and terrible)

Then when Damian has 8 (or 10), she just looks for her father and says "bye"

Ra's is a good grandfather who loves his grandchildren (Damian and Mara), he is just a weird magic man for them (he is still the demon but not for his people and family)

So the trio move to Metropolis, Talia to get the job with Lex and Bruce almost had a heart attack because JESUS CHRIST IS THAT JASON TODD?! AND WHO IS THAT TINNY SMOL BOY NEXT TO HIM?!

Jason still hates Batman and tries to kill Tim (they'll get along later but not now)

Jason talks shit about Batman all time and Damian believes in him because old brother Jason knows things, and then Damian also dislikes his father

Jason became a crime lord in Gotham to piss Bruce off and annoying Dick and Tim, Talia just asked Jason don't put Damian in this crime thing, Jason and Talia tried to keep Damian a part of this mess crime and hero thing

Damian, like all other children in his age, is curious and impulsive. Then he stole a ninja costume and went to Gotham because he is curious about his father and the others brothers

And then he met Dick

Dick is just tired of Jason messing around but he recognizes a curious kid when he sees one (and he is also curious about Damian - no one knows Damian is Bruce blood son yet)

Dick and Damian become weird friends eventually (as canon their relationship is slowly but strong in the end)

When Jason finds out about Damian's new friend, he tries to hunt Dick down

Too late

Damian now has a cow and Dick has Damian's DNA

All the Batfam goes crazy because THIS BOY IS YOUR SON!!

just thinking about 'Damian, I need to tell you something, you're the son of the Batman' - Dick

'yeah, I know' Damian knew it all along because Talia told him and Jason about Damian's father

Steph and Cass are also curious about this little boy and kidnapped him to a playdate (and also annoying Jason and Bruce)

Damian dislikes Tim Drake because Jason told him to do so and he will listen to his older brother (they'll eventually get along)

Bruce tries to get close to Damian a few times and Jason always stops him. Whenever the two meet it is a terrible fight, both emotional and physical (Jason just gatekeeping Damian rn)

Talia could help Bruce, but she decides whatever Jason is doing is funnier, then she allows Jason to bully his dad for a while

Maybe it's Jason's rude words, the guilt of not being seen with the same admiration for the boy anymore, making Bruce become "softer" and try to get involved in Jason and Damian's lives because he doesn't want to make mistakes like he did in the past

somehow this becomes a mess in the media, after all Talia and Bruce are rich (she is richer than him) and a child custody dispute is always crazy and the favorite dish for reporters

the plan about protecting Damian from media harassment just fell apart (thanks Bruce and his bad decisions)

Talia and Jason were almost planning to send Damian to spend time on an Al Ghul family island when the images began to disappear from the internet almost instantly

This happened because the batkids worked together because 'Jason is our brother and Damian is also our brother'

When Jason goes to confront Dick about this, Dick says it's all Tim's plan (he knows about the assassination attempts and he doesn't want the family fighting)

Tim and Jason get along after this

"but you say he is a bitch' - Damian about Tim

'yeah, but he is a friend now' - Jason

Somehow Dick lures Damian in the mansion to him met Alfred

so while the media is covering the whole spectacle of the custody fight over Damian, Damian, Talia and Jason are having tea with Alfred and ignoring Bruce

And Jason still is a crime lord

Eventually Bruce gets the right to see Damian (I want to bully this man a little after Gotham War)

Damian doesn't go to school, but he still meets Jon and Kathy at a farming event because he wants to show off Batcow

They becomes friends there (Clack and Lois have no idea that this Damian who Jon is talking about is Damian Wayne, but they're super happy because Jon is making more friends)

Damian invites Jon to his birthday party, something that makes all of Kent very happy

Damian's birthday becomes incredibly awkward once Clack encounters Bruce and the Batkids, Talia Al Ghul, Jason Fucking Todd, Ra's Al Ghul, and some other assassins and children of assassins that Talia and Damian trust

Also Maya and Mara are also there

Mara because she and Damian were rising together in the league (they have a brother and sister relationship but they don't know it yet)

and Maya proclaimed herself Damian big sister since her father trained him

omg i stumbled across your blog recently and your art is gorgeous!!! i love the style and the way you draw dick in particular so much!

also i couldn’t stop thinking about your tangled au it’s so clever! it got me thinking of an au of your au (if that’s presumptuous or annoying feel free to ignore this ask lol). but it always bugged me slightly in the original tangled that rapunzel could remember stuff from when she was a baby bc babies can’t do that lol (obv she also has magic glowing hair so suspension of disbelief and all). but what if dick was actually older when slade (or court of owls tbh take your pick) kidnapped him? like he came under bruce’s care just like in canon after his parents died, and was around long enough to become brothers with jason, and tim had just been adopted when dick and bruce have a fight and dick storms off. not as bad as comics and bruce doesn’t kick him out bc he’s not an ass lol, but maybe dick wants to do more with his powers and bruce is overprotective, so dick storms out fully intending to come back, but slade has been watching him and takes this chance to kidnap him. and when bruce goes looking for him all he finds is a bloodstain and no dick.

and obviously dick is very keen on escaping the creepy dude who’s kidnapped him, but slade brings him to the basement of the tower and begins to torture/brainwash him sort of like the apprentice arc. and over time bc slade sucks and is good at the whole brainwashing thing, dick slowly looses his memories and eventually can’t remember a life outside of the tower at all. and he continues to grow up in the tower with slade as his “father” and he always has this sense that something isn’t quite right, but he can’t put his finger on it. like he has all these weird torture-like scars that he can’t remember getting, but slade tells him that it was from when he was young and before slade rescued him, and that’s why the world is so scary and dangerous and he has to stay in the tower where slade can protect him. and ofc he does bc slade loves him and wouldn’t lie to him right? and he doesn’t know why the name richard doesn’t fit him quite right, or why his heart races when slade appears unexpectedly (that’s how love works right?). but he stays in the tower like he’s supposed to until wally and roy show up.

and slowly after traveling with them he begins to get weird flashes of both painful and good memories, and strange sensations of deja vue. while meanwhile bruce is still all brooding and mourning bc it was his fight that led dick to run away. and added angst is that jason and tim actually remember and miss dick, even though tim had just started to get to know him. and damian is angsty bc he’s the only one never to have met dick (handwavy on the ages just like dc lol). meanwhile the kingdom still remembers and mourns the charismatic adorable prince that they lost.

and then when slade eventually catches up to and captures wally and roy, dick offers to give himself up and promises never to escape if slade spares them. and it’s extra sad bc he finally remembers what he’d be giving up. he remembers bruce and alfred and his brothers, and he remembers all the trauma slade put him through, and he’s willing to go through it all again to save wally and roy (bc is it really dick grayson if he isn’t super self sacrificing lol). and ofc it eventually ends happily and dick is delighted to go back to his family with his new friends and see his old brothers and meet his new brother all with a new haircut.

but yeah overall your au wormed its way into my brain and i couldn’t stop thinking about it lol, it’s so good!!!!

Ahjajfk thank youuuu<3

And OMG, this is amazing! Beautifully written, yes, absolutely love all the details, especially Slade's and Dick's relationship in all this. I've actually thought about him being taken later on so Tim and Jason would also remember Dick. But I think I started overthinking everything and made it way too complicated (I think I wrote about 20 pages of notes and stuff, I kinda got lost in them. I was/am pretty obsessed with this AU), so I just reeled back a bit and stayed close to the plot. It also simplifies things; I don’t have to rewrite the whole story, which, with my overthinking skills, would take forever. 💀

And that part with Slade making Dick forget who he was is great. I kept the whole AU pretty open with some stuff for imagination. My running idea at the moment is that he got sick when he was 8, so Bruce found the flower, and later Slade kidnapped him, making him forget everything and thinking Slade is his father.

But yeah, OMG, this is awesome. I totally love it. I tried to make it as detailed as possible story-wise, but at the same time, I really needed to limit myself to finish fast because I was scared I would lose interest or don’t have the patience haha But Now I’m kinda even more excited about how people will react to the next chapters. 👀

Ngl do you think the relationship between Arthur and Garth has anything to do with how often at the time adopted children were and are considered not as “real” as biological children? Especially because the whole nuclear family BS. Not saying that’s all of it but I think it plays a role

Oh, 100%. I mean, look at this:

Arthur is willing to kill Garth to save Aquababy, because Aquababy is his son...with the implicit corollary that Garth isn't. The kid he has raised since, like, age 8, who has been by his side and living in his house all these years, is just...a sidekick.

(I think it's worth noting that Batman, who is not a good father, was once in a similar situation - Ra's al Ghul wanted him to pick whether Tim or Damian should die - and Bruce immediately chose himself. Arthur didn't even consider sacrificing himself for the boys. When you're a worse father than Batman, you know you've fucked up.)

I will say that in the early decades, comics only rarely explicitly referred to heroes and sidekicks as fathers and sons - you don't see it very often with Dick or Roy either. That's why all the sidekicks were wards and none of them were legally adopted. (Dick wasn't adopted until he was over 18; Roy never has been.) This was mostly to keep the heroes seeming young and fun instead of stodgy old dads.

But since the 70s on, Dick and Roy have been very frequently, explicitly stated to be Bruce and Ollie's sons, and the same is true for subsequent sidekicks: Jason was going to be adopted right away, Tim was going to be adopted whether he wanted it or not, Mia is clearly Ollie's daughter.

By contrast, I can only think of two times the Arthur/Garth dynamic has been described as paternal. The first is from Garth's debut:

HE IS SO TINY. Also I can't stop laughing at how Arthur's like "Fuck that noise." TERRIBLE.

I can't remember exactly when the other instance was, but I want to say it was Arthur calling Garth his son in like...the early 2000s? Maybe the Jurgens run? It would've had to have been before the 2003 run, because Garth was not putting up with Arthur's bullshit from 2003 on, and then the New 52 happened.

But yeah, they don't use those words for each other...basically ever. (Lorena and Jackson are also not Arthur's children. To be fair, Jackson has two very alive parents so Arthur being like "YOU ARE MY SON" would be weird and inappropriate.)

I think another factor, though, is that Arthur isn't just Garth's former mentor and guardian - he's his king. A lot of the time, Arthur has very cold, formal relationships with almost everyone in his life who isn't Mera (and sometimes even her) or a literal baby. There's a certain loyalty Garth owes Arthur - or at least both characters seem to feel Garth owes Arthur, whether or not you or I might agree with that - that has nothing at all to do with family.

We also don't really know the Atlantean norms around this sort of thing. Like, we can extrapolate things about Ollie and Roy's relationship that aren't written on the page, but do Atlanteans even have differentiations between ward, foster, and adoptee? Do they differentiate between adoptee and biological child?

And combining both of those ideas, Garth being considered Arthur's son might have political ramifications. Does that put him in the line of succession? The comics have been wildly inconsistent on this (Titans called him a prince this month and I yelled "EXPLAIN YOURSELF, TOM TAYLOR" at the page), but one could headcanon that Arthur has very deliberately avoided formally recognizing Garth as his son for political reasons. (Unless he has and that's why Garth is apparently a prince now, like he was in the Jurgens run but no other time in history. EXPLAIN BOTH OF YOURSELVES, TOM TAYLOR AND DAN JURGENS.)

Anyway yeah, I mostly think you're right that it's just anti-adoption prejudice, but there are some other factors that make this situation unique among the many, many mentor/sidekick relationships in comics.

Is it weird to want as much as I desperately want Damian and Bruce to have a good father-son bond,I also want Bruce to have consequences for being a pretty shit dad since Damian has been in his custody?? Alfred has been a better father figure than him and HE RAISED Bruce. I need Talia on his ass like yesterday!!! To be straight up and tell him shit for being a bad dad while he could've been comfortable and loved back with her!! I need Damian's friends to sneer at a legendary hero bc as much at they respect his work they respect Damian more!!!

Also the fact he treats his brown son SO much different than his white ones is fucking crazy bc he's not racist but the writers make it so IT DOES LOOK SO FUCKIN RACIST. Like he treats Tim and even Jason so much better than Damian at times,and Jason and his relationship is LIKE THAT. Dick is ehh with bruce but definitely better than Damian atp. Talia please get yr son away from him 😭😭

I’m bias in a way where I feel like Damian’s relationship with Bruce is very important, it’s just we have been dealt a hand with shitty writers which is sad because writers have done so much to have it be established that Bruce would literally go to hell for his son but like so many writers are so much more interested in showing how Batman and Robin are a power fantasy like they’ve been for years and make Bruce out to be this awful, neglectful parent. I kind of ignore that the same way I do Talia’s morrison stories but I still take in account that I’ll have to assess it. 

I understand its OOC but like how I understand Jason almost killing Damian is OOC and still consider it happened, I also do that for bad dad Bruce. Like those events were too important to Damian’s character to be ignored unfortunately.

I will always prioritize Damian’s relationship with Bruce and Talia over the batboys, including Dick. Dick’s a last resort if those two are not an option. Unfortunately Dick’s relationship with Damian didn’t have a lasting effect on his character like it did Bruce, Talia or even Jon. He’s really just kind of some guy if you really think about it. So, Bruce and Talia and the depiction of the Al Ghuls is my main concern.

I cannot even BEGIN to describe how feral this trio of characters makes me, like set aside any potential shipping stuff, just as three characters who each have unique relationships with each other but each of those relationships winds up affecting the other character in this trio. Like-- Dick and Babs are sometimes a team together, two young heroes who are developing a friendship, two young heroes who understand what it's like to work with Tall Dark and Spooky and his need to control everything, that they both understand the other has a need to prove themselves, a drive that will not be stopped no matter what Batman tries to tell them. And eventually they will have an unshakeable relationship, whether romantic or platonic, they will always support each other. And Bruce will use that dynamic to help give Babs gear that will keep her alive until she ~wises up~, and Dick plays along with it, pretends that he's giving it to her because he has a crush on her, meanwhile it actually came directly from Bruce. Yet it also does help give her a sense of someone rooting for her, because Dick genuinely is! Dick and Bruce have a whole encyclopedia set of issues and undercurrents totally separate from this, god knows I've devoted like two hundred posts to trying to chip off even a fraction of Whatever Is Going On Over There, while here they're not yet father and son, but they're not not at that point at the same time, they're just not acknowledging it, but they're also partners, they tag-team Barbara with the good-cop/bad-cop routine when they have her in the Cave to ask why she's doing this, but Dick will turn on a dime and spray her with the knock-out gas, even though he'd projected a harmless aura and sneakily being on her side up until then. Bruce and Barbara have a conflict-driven dynamic, she wouldn't mind having his approval, but it's not why she does what she does, she's not driven by it, she's not motivated by it, this isn't about him. But when they clash, she's often mad as hell, because he wants to treat her like he treats Robin, someone that he can set the rules for, someone he has the right to interrogate and she tells him, no, you don't have a monopoly on helping people or even wearing a Bat-themed symbol. He's not an influence in her life and she genuinely does not want him to be, but at the same time he casts such a long shadow and he's set the mold for all of them, that he's an influence in everyone's life in the Gotham vigilante scene.

And I keep thinking of that one future Gotham Knights issue where Dick tells Bruce that he and Babs are dating and she's so annoyed because SHE wanted to be the one to tell Bruce just so he didn't get to pretend to be all-knowing on her, when Dick just laughs in her face because she's being so cranky and weird about it, he thinks it's hilarious that they're trying to use him as a pawn in whatever chess game they have going between them, because he loves them both but also he's not going to play by those same rules, you guys have fun with that, he'll just watch with popcorn from the sidelines and laugh at you.

Just!! The slippery and sliding dynamics between these three!! At ANY GIVEN TIME two of them could be going through something that spills over onto the third and you never know which two it's going to be! And it's complicated and thorny and crunchy in the best way, there are always good moments and bad moments, and no two dynamics are the same, like what Barbara has with Dick is completely different from what she has with Bruce, which is completely different from what she has with her dad, while what Dick has with Barbara is completely different from what he has with Bruce, while what Bruce has with Dick is completely different from what he has with Barbara, and I'm not sure any other trio really comes close to that (other than maybe Bruce & Tim & Steph, but other than in a few runs, I'm not sure how much of a foundation that is to who the characters are to each other on a bigger narrative level). It's not that they don't exist outside of each other! It's very easy to find Bruce & Dick stories that aren't influenced by Babs at all, it's very easy to find Dick & Babs stories that aren't influenced by Bruce at all, it's even reasonably easy to find Bruce & Babs moments that aren't about Dick at all. They're not all tied up in each other. But they have built their foundations around each other. Bruce, because Dick was the one who knocked down his emotional walls and opened his heart up to having a family. Dick, because Bruce raised him and gave him a path forward in life, gave him direction. Barbara, because if she's going to love Dick (as a friend or as a boyfriend, whichever), he doesn't come without the Bat influence and she has to be aware of the space that takes up in him, as well as if you're a Bat yourself, you're eventually going to clash with Bruce, and boy has she.

And I'm just really, really into that kind of "multiple moving pieces on the board" dynamic, especially when it's not always nice or soft, because each of them care about the other (some more than others, granted) but they are all massively stubborn and often angry people who do not get pushed around easily, who will find a way around you if you try to get in their way, and you never know which two are going to be in conflict and just how that's going to spill over onto the third. I JUST REALLY LOVE DYNAMICS THAT DON'T FIT NEATLY OR EASILY INTO A SINGLE CATEGORY.

SORRY NOT SORRY ABOUT HOW UNHINGED I AM ABOUT THEM WHILE READING THIS COMIC.

Damian holding his own sister hostage just to have a worthy tantrum is so funny to me- he misses having several rooms

Also his weird mother-daughter relationship with Jason will be interesting to see once he meets Bruce (his actual father), Dick (Dad N2 in like every universe) and Tim (he doesn't know why Jason is so weird about him but he'll glare at Tim all the same to show his support)

He's also HIGHLY jealous of Athanasia, and now Mara too. He wanted Jason to comfort Mara, because he didn't know how to fix it himself and he doesn't want his cousin to cry and be upset, but then he saw Jason sitting there cuddling both of them and it upset him because Jason doesn't cuddle him.

but ALSO if Jason dares try to hug him he's going to punch him again because he is NOT a baby and he does NOT need to be coddled stop it!!!! It's really hard being eight-years-old. lmao And he has a lot of trauma centered around affection and showing/getting affection because Ra's is a complete and total bastard, and since he's just a kid he can't really see that, all he sees is his little sister his mom kept secret from him and everyone get constant attention and affection. And from his perspective, Attie always got attention and affection from his mother, too, he hasn't really thought through the trauma of having to stay hidden and being left alone for long stretches of time because of that, (which is why Attie is extremely clingy.) Attie was/is allowed it, and he never was, even though he wanted it. And he just can't process those thoughts because he's never been safe. He hasn't quite allowed himself to feel safe enough with Jason, but he's getting there.

He's been thinking this whole time that Jason doesn't like him and is only keeping him around because he 'has' to, out of familial obligation. Jason offhandedly and without thinking saying 'i love you too' is going to help a lot here, so is a few more things that happen in the next few chapters. :D

Damian's changing! (Bats are a bit concerned) #DeadSerious

Hello everyone! Now as you can already tell, this is a crossover ship of dp x dc. I wasn't really interested in this ship tbh but reading 'Something is weird with Damian' by Tuka2002 on AO3 (if you see this, hi!!! Love your work) and it was stuck in my head lol. So I'm taking inspiration from the fic and making my own headcannons!

- For contexts, Damian meets Danny normally; ie. No enemies chasing one another, no trying to off each other, no nada! They have a normal meeting and they both decided they like each other (Damian took longer than he like to admit) and it started from there.

- They been dating for some time, Danny a bit older than Damian; about a few years apart. Damian hasn't told anyone about him meeting someone, only Jon (he's his best friend, sue him), and Danny couldn't keep it a secret for long before his sister and friends found out (They lie for him all the time, they know he's bad at lying too)

- Danny had such a good influence on Damian that the Batclan thought that he was being mind controlled. Even Jon at first was suspicious at Danny (because he worries for his friend).

- Danny is such a sweetheart; although his choice of clothes make him look like a gangster lol.

- No joke, he would wear all black, a leather jacket with spikes on the shoulders, gloves, heavy boots, a mask that looks like a muzzle, rides a bike and it doesn't help that he's almost 7 feet tall (courtesy of his father's genes) and pretty much brawn (due to all the ghost fighting).

- Bruce will have a heart attack when he first see Danny. Alfred will raise a eyebrow.

- But like I said, Danny's a sweetheart, he'll bring gifts, expensive or not (let's throw in some Ghost King hc's in) and spoil Damian rotten. He's a gentleman too, always opening doors for Damian and buying the things he likes (Jon will always teased him about it)

- As for Damian, he'll start to get 'soft' as his siblings like to put it. Don't get me wrong, he's still the snobby demon brat we all know and love; he's just tone it down a little. He starts caring for others little by little and he even stopped trying to off he's brothers (Tim is very alarmed at this)

- He starts wearing the gifts that Danny gives, mainly clothing and jewelry. The clothing are in pastels colours and Damian loves them. Now Bruce doesn't like any of his kids dating (sue him) but this is very alarming to him as he never see Damian like this (Little does he know that they been together for a while now) so he'll be extra protective; although Danny thinks it's very heartwarming and would not be phased (ayy) at all.

- The Bats are debating whether or not that Danny is a thread.

- I don't know how the Bats meet Danny (officially). It could be dramatic or they wait for Damian to tell or Danny could a suspect and Damian is trying to clear his name or it could just be a normal (or as normal as can be) meeting.

- Anyway you put it, it will be interesting (｡•̀ᴗ-)✧

- As for their side job (*cough*cough), that up for debate cuz I really don't know about this one. They could have known what the other does but not the full picture or Danny has told him about him being Ghost King and in turn, Damian told him about being robin (They both did this because in Danny's part, he doesn't like lying to Damian and would like it out of the way when the relationship got serious; For Damian it's the same as Danny and also he knows he's not human and ask him if he's a meta)

That's about all! Do penny your thoughts cuz I really invested in this ship! (◕દ◕) Sorry if there are some grammar mistakes here and there lol.

On a side note: I realised that this would work for a lot of other ships, crossover or not, so feel free to take it as your own ^o^ Just tag me so I can see (and fangirl over) it.

Robin/Batgirl: Fresh Blood REVIEW

So, it's Cassandra Cain day, and as always on this day I'll usually review a comic, I decided for this year I'd be reviewing Robin/Batgirl: Fresh Blood, considering I recently bought the trade last Christmas, so yeah!

First off, I want to start by saying that overall I think this is a pretty decent story, but it also highlights the difference between the two writers of Bill Willingham and Andersen Gabrych, seeing how they handle the grieving process of both Cass and Tim is particularly interesting.

Obviously I don't want to say Willingham doesn't try his best to make it seem like Tim is sad following Stephanie's death, but like he does really brush it off more, during her funeral he isn't even really sad about Steph all that much, more mad at Bruce.

And I understand Willingham tries to make an excuse that Tim is sad over a bunch of people rn so he doesn't have that many tears to shed over Steph, but like she's the most recent death, I think Tim would be a little more upset over her. 😭

Even after frickin' hallucinating her does he not even get sad over her, more or so his father, it really feels like he doesn't care that much about Steph's death and she's just another casualty.

Meanwhile for Cass, I'd say the weight is more felt, you actually see her shedding tears at her funeral, and it genuinely seems like Cass is more upset about her loss whereas Tim is just bottling up his emotions about it.

So, I definitely prefer how Gabrych writes the reaction to Stephanie's death as opposed to Willingham, because she feels more important of a loss.

As for things beyond that, I have to say there's some really good action sequences in this 4 parter, it's certainly helped that two of Cassandra Cain's best artists worked on this, being Damion Scott and Ale Garza, while their style does certainly contrast, considering Scott is more cartoonish and Garza is more anime-ish, I still think both do a fine job regardless and it's just nice to say there's a Cass comic out there where two of her best artists did some awesome stuff for her.

I especially like the scene where Cass is fighting Shrike and the scene where she's taking on a bunch of the Penguin's goons.

Finally, I'd like to touch on what I love most about the story, and that would be the contrast between Tim and Cass on wanting to be like Batman.

It's basically the main theme of the story, where Tim is afraid of becoming more like him, but Cass is embracing that, wanting to become that symbol.

It's best summarized in the scene at the end of the story where the two finally have a heart to heart about it, and it's some good stuff.

So, overall, I would say I think Fresh Blood is a pretty good read.

It has some flaws here and there, especially the weird contrast between how each writer was reacting to the death of Steph at the time, but beyond that there's some good stuff that builds up Cass and Tim's relationship, and the art is certainly excellent coming from some of Cass's best artists.

Well, there you have it, my little review/analysis of Robin/Batgirl: Fresh Blood! Hope you all enjoyed it, and as always stay tuned.

Same bat-time, same bat-channel!

And happy birthday to the best comic character ever created imo: Cassandra Cain!

Hii, it’s me again! So, I have 2 asks and you can choose one or just not answer at all, that’s fine too.

1) I always see people talking about Tim and Jason’s relationship and how Jason was Tim’s Robin, but I thought it was Dick? Also I know their relationship has gotten way better but I’m kinda confused didn’t they dislike each other? It makes sense of course for there to be character development but now they’re each other’s favorite siblings? Or is that just fanon?

*NOT hating in any way, your gal’s just confused 😅*

2) Some people say Dick and Bruce have a more “brotherly” relationship because of the age gap, but I could never see anything other than father and son. Also I’m not sure about my opinion on Dick and Damian’s relationship but what do you think? Eldest-youngest relationship or fatherly? 🫢💕

Hello! I’m gonna try to answer both asks to make up for the fact that it’s taken me over a week to answer lmao

1) Dick was absolutely Tim’s Robin. Tim adored Dick so clearly it was borderline weird when they first met, and afterwards Dick and Tim’s relationship becomes more brotherly and it’s obvious how much Dick also adores Tim and is super protective of him. Meanwhile, if I remember correctly, when Jason comes back he walks into Titans Tower dressed in his old Robin suit where Tim is minding his own business and beats the living daylights out of him? Wildness. Tim does forgive him later and their relationship does change, but calling them fave siblings is wildly inaccurate, and anyway, I’m not too versed in the Tim and Jason dynamics and it’s not really an interest of mine, so maybe someone can clarify this?

2) My understanding of the timeline is when Dick’s parents died and Bruce took him in he was 8 and Bruce was around 27-28. (In this household we ignore whatever the hell New 52 and Rebirth did to their ages) That’s why the age thing was never a problem for me, because it’s totally plausible for a 28-year-old guy to have an 8-year-old son. We should be beyond this debate by now honestly I’m so confused.

Setting aside the numbers, it still makes sense even if you consider the wide variation in Bruce’s parenting skills. First-time parents are still learning and can be too lenient or too strict + Bruce being a young dad could also mean he’s not quite mature yet and can make mistakes/treat his kid like a lil buddy sometimes. (Again it’s not rocket science anyone who’s observed any family ever will know this.) But, imo, I always see a father and son dynamic between them. They don’t have to be the typical picture of father and son to be father and son, you know? The main thing is that Bruce took him in, provided for him, helped him, taught him, loved him, watched him grow up… that’s Dad enough for me.

Dick and Damian are an interesting parallel to Bruce and Dick. Since Dick has expressed a desire to adopt Damian, it’s safe to say there are parental feelings there. Then again, I think it’s pretty common for eldest and youngest siblings with a big age gap to have the line between sibling and parent blurred a bit. I’ve experienced that myself, and I’ve seen it in the people around me. Maybe some things in the human experience are too complex and beyond labelling.

I have read a thousand fluffy, happy Batfam fics and I read one thousand more but when the happy sanitized fanon is put away and I really think of the characters, I can never believe it.

The Bats love each other, I honestly, truly believe each and every one of those weird, repressed assholes would die to save one another. But the day to day is hard. They’re not just a family, they’re coworkers and soldiers and enemies. Bruce doesn’t do normal and shows his love through control, paranoia and shared violence and he taught that to his children. The siblings never feel quite at ease around each other, too many betrayals, cutting words, stinging injuries. In the field, they are a well oiled machine, when they’re at home playing the part of a happy family, they can’t quite relax.

Dick is a demanding perfectionist who sometimes can’t separate himself the job. He’s burned bridges at some point with every family member and though he dearly loves them, sometimes being the happy, welcoming, forgiving big brother all the time to too many siblings is exhausting. It’s hard to keep so many different people happy at once so sometimes he just lets them go.

Jason never fully integrates back into the family. He doesn’t legally reclaim his name and return to his life, just keeps his head down and sticks to his turf in the alley. He’s simmered down a lot since his resurrection and can hold conversations with his so called family but it’s tense and soured by the past. He occasionally still murders and break B’s moral code but B is so tired of the fighting that they’re in a bit of a stalemate over it.

Tim has grown used to feeling like an outsider in the family. He stays out of obligation and because he has no one else left to turn to. Sometimes it feels like he’s just going through the motions of being a brother and son. He dreams about packing up and leaving but knows he never can. Is still bitter at the fallout of previously good relationships (Dick, Steph and B) and in general wary and untrusting of Jay and Dami. He wishes things could go back to how they were.

Cassandra has never truly understood the concept of a happy family. The Bats are comfortably familiar with their frequent brawls and generally being on edge around the other. To her, this is normal. That said, as much as she loves, she keeps her distance because its hard for her to deal with and express that love. She’ll spar and cuddle and smile and then disappear for months making it hard to the others to feel connected to her. She feels most comfortable alone.

Damian’s inferiority and superiority complex are at constant war with each other. He’s learned to see the error of his earlier thinking and realizes that everyone will always see him as an assassin. He hates how much he looks up to his older siblings, their skills and experience how easily they seem to have his father’s love. His pride prevents him from admitting this, opening up to them and instead perpetuates the cycle of insults and fighting.

There is love and connection in the Bat family but also cracks from hundreds of little interactions brought about by stress and pain and misery. When the stars are right and the moon is bright, they can come together and be a family. But it’s never the whole group and never for too long before uncertainty and fear creeps back in. In battle, they are an unstoppable force that works in tandem. Outside of costumes, just themselves, they are broken people awkwardly trying to hold together a facsimile family.

The reasons to need to write and read Reverse Robins AU

Damian having a place with his long-awaited father. A father who is not neglectful and who still can show he cares. Who can still talk to him. And a father he doesn't have to share with someone, yet. and this.

_^

Bruce having to mature in order to be a parent. And NOT having Dick Grayson as a ward. At least not now. Bruce adapting to the idea of having his own family. Bruce having to actually talk and explain things to the little creature who was raised in a VERY different environment. Bruce getting out of his head a little. Growing up a little before getting a kid. Because Bruce can't have 8-12 y o Damian being 24 y o himself, sorry.

Exploring Tim Drake's potential outside of a very weird comic character who is loved by many people on Ao3 but non-existent on it. Outside of Robin, too. Also: Tim Drake Can Do Wrong. Tim Drake Does Wrong. Letting him be an interesting character.

Letting Jason Todd be a Robin (or Shrike, or whatever Batman's partner called in different RR!AUs) he used to be before DC decided he was just an angry incompetent sidekick Who Didn't Listen and Got Himself Killed. Letting him be good again. And yes, he was good. and I absolutely adore the idea of Damian as a big brother.

Dick getting a big family of very different people who have different opinions - after a terrible loss. Dick growing up healthier than he did. Dick not jumping into vigilante life. Or at least not for long. Or at least not in SUCH YOUNG AGE, BATMAN. Dick getting a whole bunch of people who have no problem with him at all and who start to love him almost immediately. And looking after him better so he doesn't get a chance to run without pants on the Gotham streets.

Very different roles of Barbara Gordon, Cassandra Cain and Stephanie Brown.

How did Cassandra Cain end up in Gotham? Did No Man's Land happen? WILL it happen? Does she have a name? Who named her if not Barbara Gordon? Did she get ability to speak? Did she die like comic version? Was she a Batgirl?

STEPHANIE BROWN GETTING BETTER TREATMENT, DC!!!!! Did she become a Robin (/whatever you call it) as well? Did she get the same relationship with Damian as canon? Who is she as a young girl without canon!Bruce's and canon!Tim's bullshit? Do she and Cassandra Cain get along? Is she a Batfamily member in the AU or does she have canon-like role outside of it?

Do the Birds of Prey exist?

Exploring how Damian's Robin (/whatever you call it) would look like; and how it would affect the Bat-Clan.

Exploring the relationships between Robins (/whatever you call it) and other young heroes. Exploring the other hero families who most likely are reversed too.

The hero names. Capes. Histories.

Exploring how all of it would affect Gotham and Gotham's criminals. Rogues, too.

What the hell is going on with Duke Thomas???? I honestly have no idea how I would put him into my AU... but he's also part of Rebirth if I'm not mistaken? so I actually don't have too. He is a wonderful character (HE IS SO COOL. SO. COOL.) and my lack of imagination has nothing to do with me loving or hating him.

Talia al Ghul.

Talia al Ghul.

Talia al Ghul.

Changing events without changing what you like about it.

also I don't care about Ra's al Ghul BUT Batman Chronicles #8 make me think about him a lot.

inspired by @msfcatlover's AUs. And some others. And mine, too.