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nonspeakers-r-us · 1 year

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Nobody talks about episodes of uncontrollable emotion and dangerous behaviors in severe Autism.

I apologize for the long post. This is important to me. Heavy CW for mention of knives, self-injurious behaviors, description of intense emotions, brief descriptions of restraints and police. Yes, I used the word "severe" to describe my Autism. This is because I am Nonspeaking, very High Support Needs, visibly Autistic, and have a Borderline IDD. This is how I choose to describe my Autism. Please don't attack me for this, Tumblr. Anyways. Darting out into busy streets. Repeatedly banging your head against walls. Throwing objects, sometimes even very dangerous objects such as knives. Breaking things - anything - no matter the value or durability. Unplanned, sudden violence towards self and others. Lashing out, in pure emotion, just screaming into nothing at the top of your lungs, for no obvious reason other than pure, unadulterated, terrifying emotion. This may not seem like symptoms of Autism for anyone, and they may not be caused by Autism at all. But for many young people and adults with severe Autism, this is what our families deal with regularly. "Difficult behaviors", as I've often heard them described as by social workers. There's often no clear reason for then. They just. Happen. We are almost never diagnosed with secondary conditions. It is considered a symptom of our severe/profound Autism. While in many Speaking and Low Support Needs people with Autism, they would be diagnosed with various conditions. Conduct Disorder. Bipolar. Borderline Personality Disorder. Maybe even a severe case of Intermittent Explosive Disorder. But for those of us on the more visible part of the Spectrum, nobody knows how to deal with us. It's scary and heartbreaking for our families, and deeply traumatic for us. Many times, our families and caregivers will turn to emergency services such as police or EMTs when they have no where else to turn. I don't like this option, I hate it. But in moments of extreme panic and fear, I don't always blame families for this. Nobody talks about those of us who have been restrained by our arms and ankles to hospital beds for weeks at a time. Nobody talk about those of us who turn violent on the people we love most, when we just can't control ourselves. I wish I had good advice for those of us struggling with this. I wish I could comfort you. While mood stabilizers and antipsychotic medications have helped me, it doesn't help everyone. DBT for severely Autistic individuals is another thing that greatly helped me. This is a fact of life for many individuals with severe Autism and their families. It's terrifying. But please keep trying treatment, keep advocating for yourself as much as possible, and keep going. I'm sure you don't think this means anything, but you are strong. You are brave. I see you and I want you to keep going. Nobody talks about episodes of uncontrollable emotion and dangerous behaviors in severe Autism.

#actually autistic #nonspeaking #autism #high support needs #nothing about us without us #nonverbal #aac user #rage attacks #conduct disorder #severe autism #actually nonverbal

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freakthingg · 5 months

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anyone know how to cope with homicidal urges? can't go to a ward atm and my therapist isn't much help

#actually aspd #aspd #antisocial personality disorder #npd #actually npd #narcissistic personality disorder #conduct disorder

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s1yeye · 6 months

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"you must reblog this post now" "reblog this post or you hate [minority]" "reblog this post or you bad bad person" hate see hate see people am say that. kuru am have ocd struggle with compulsion am have meltdown breakdown sometimes over see post like that, make infuriate annoy frustrated angry and upset and sometimes throw fit because feel like have to do but hate being told what to do cuz of aspd. it is shitty lame tactic to try to get more attention on you post. harmful to mentally ill people, stop doing it. not worth it to trigger someone so you get more funny like and reblog button on your social media platform.

#kuru noises #level 2 autism #medium support needs #intellectual disability #actually mentally ill #ocd #actually ocd #aspd #actually aspd #conduct disorder

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aspd-culture · 6 months

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Heya, idk if this is a valid question or is really dumb, but like, does the age at which ASPD behavior starts to show have to be strictly 15?

I have been wondering whether I should get officially diagnosed, since the media and general societal representation of it doesn’t seem as reflecting of me (with exception of a few) but I do relate extremely closely to most of the diagnosing criteria. Although??? The physical aggression thing?? Like I have those impulses and plenty of them, but I just don’t follow through with most because of convenience. That sort of thing is one of the main things that makes me doubt whether I do actually have it. (Same with impulsive behaviors etc)

But my main point/ask is the age thing. As a very young child I was pretty sweet? Ig? Like I wasn’t an aggressive child, rather pretty passive. As far as I recall, my symptoms started when I was about 15-16, when I was starting to process that mine was a traumatic situation? and earlier than that I was just an edgy teen, I guess? I sure had some of the symptons way earlier, but the main ones/ the ones that I feel are more prominent in me didn’t show up until a bit later? I’m not sure. So my question is, does it mean it can’t be ASPD?

Also your page is lifesaving. Thanks man.

Note: due to the way copy and pasting criteria works on tumblr, this post will be written exclusively in plain text, as copying and pasting it all over again would take forever, but I want this post to be accessible still.

I haaaate the way the DSM phrases criteria. Absolutely no worries, it is confusing as heck and you wouldn't be the first person at all to ask about this.

So, the symptoms of Conduct Disorder or Oppositional Defiant Disorder (DSM criteria below) need to show by or before the age of 15. (I do not know if Intermittent Explosive Disorder satisfies this criteria, but it very well may.) That means they may start when you're a toddler, or they may start when you're 14.5. Anywhere in there, you have to qualify for one of those two disorders, but you also do not have to have been diagnosed with them.

Also, having had been an "edgy teen" definitely could have been those symptoms showing themselves. The reason ASPD can't be diagnosed before 18 is because teenage edginess could either be symptoms or be normal, and the only real way to tell is if it continues past teenage and into adulthood.

The diagnostic criteria of Oppostional Defiant Disorder is as follows, quoted from the DSM-V TR:

A. A pattern of angry/iritable mood, argumentative/defiant behavior, or vindictiveness lasting at least 6 months as evidenced by at least four symptoms from any of the following categories, and exhibited during interaction with at least one individual who is not a sibling.

Angry/lrritable Mood

1. Often loses temper

2. Is often touchy or easily annoyed

3. Is often angry and resentful.

Argumentative/Defiant Behavior

4. Often argues with authority figures or, for children and adolescents, with adults.

5. Often actively defies or refuses to comply with requests from authority figures or with rules

6. Often deliberately annoys others

7. Often blames others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior.

Vindictiveness

8. Has been spiteful or vindictive at least twice within the past 6 months

Note: The persistence and frequency of these behaviors should be used to distinguish a behavior that is within normal limits from a behavior that is symptomatic. For children younger than 5 years, the behavior should occur on most days for a period of at least 6 months unless otherwise noted (Criterion A8). For individuals 5 years or older, the behavior should occur at least once per week for at least 6 months, unless otherwise noted (Criterion A8). While these frequency criteria provide guidance on a minimal level of frequency to define symptoms, other factors should also be considered, such as whether the frequency and intensity of the behaviors are outside a range that is normative for the individual's developmental level, gender, and culture.

B. The disturbance in behavior is associated with distress in the individual or others in his or her immediate social context (e.g., family, peer group, work colleagues), or it impacts negatively on social, educational, occupational, or other important areas of functioning

C. The behaviors do not occur exclusively during the course of a psychotic substance use, depressive, or bipolar disorder. Also, the criteria are not met for disruptive mood dysregulation disorder.

[End quote]

Conduct disorder's criteria more clearly shows the lead-in to ASPD.

The diagnostic criteria for Conduct Disorder is as follows, quoted from the DSM-V TR:

A. A repetitive and persistent pattern of behavior in which the basic rights of others or major age-appropriate societal norms or rules are violated, as manifested by the presence of at least three of the following 15 criteria in the past 12 months from any of the categories below, with at least one criterion present in the past 6 months:

Aggression to People and Animals

1. Often bullies, threatens, or intimidates others.

2. Often initiates physical fights.

3. Has used a weapon that can cause serious physical harm to others (e.g., a bat, brick, broken bottle, knife, gun)

4. Has been physically cruel to people

5. Has been physically cruel to animals

6. Has stolen while confronting a victim (e.g., mugging, purse snatching, extortion, armed robbery)

7. Has forced someone into sexual activity

Destruction of Property

8. Has deliberately engaged in fire setting with the intention of causing serious damage.

9. Has deliberately destroyed others' property (other than by fire setting).

Deceitfulness or Theft

10. Has broken into someone else's house, building, or car.

11. Often lies to obtain goods or favors or to avoid obligations (i.e., "cons' others).

12. Has stolen items of nontrivial value without confronting a victim (e.g. shoplifting, but without breaking and entering; forgery)

Serious Violations of Rules

13. Often stays out at night despite parental prohibitions, beginning before age 13 years.

14. Has run away from home overnight at least twice while living in the parental or parental surrogate home, or once without returning for a lengthy period

15. Is often truant from school, beginning before age 13 years

B. The disturbance in behavior causes clinically significant impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning

C. If the individual is age 18 years or older, criteria are not met for antisocial personality disorder.

[Skipping a bit of the quote which specifies codes for the various ages CD can present. It is worth noting that these are *not* criteria, they are specifications to be noted in the file of the person being diagnosed with conduct disorder to accurately describe their experience. As you'll see, these specifications are flags as to whether a child/teen with conduct disorder should be evaluated for ASPD upon reaching adulthood.]

Specify if:

With limited prosocial emotions: To qualify for this specifier, an individual must have displayed at least two of the following characteristics persistently over at least 12 months and in multiple relationships and settings. These characteristics reflect the individual's typical pattern of interpersonal and emotional functioning over this period and not just occasional occurrences in some situations. Thus, to assess the criteria for the specifier, multiple information sources are necessary. In addition to the individual's self-report, it is necessary to consider reports by others who have known the individual for extended periods of time (e.g., parents, teachers, co-workers, extended family members, peers).

Lack of remorse or guilt: Does not feel bad or guilty when he or she does something wrong (exclude remorse when expressed only when caught and/or facing punishment). The individual shows a general lack of concern about the negative consequences of his or her actions. For example, the individual is not remorseful after hurting someone or does not care about the consequences of breaking rules.

Callous-lack of empathy: Disregards and is unconcerned about the feelings of others. The individual is described as cold and uncaring. The individual appears more concerned about the effects of his or her actions on himself or herself, rather than their effects on others, even when they result in substantial harm to others.

Unconcerned about performance: Does not show concern about poor/problematic performance at school, at work, or in other important activities. The individual does not put forth the effort necessary to perform well, even when expectations are clear, and typically blames others for his or her poor performance.

Shallow or deficient affect: Does not express feelings or show emotions to others, except in ways that seem shallow, insincere, or superficial (e.g. actions contradict the emotion displayed; can turn emotions "on" or "off" quickly) or when emotional expressions are used for gain (e.g., emotions displayed to manipulate or intimidate others).

Specify current severity:

Mild: Few if any conduct problems in excess of those required to make the diagnosis are present, and conduct problems cause relatively minor harm to others (e.g., lying, truancy, staying out after dark without permission, other rule breaking)

Moderate: The number of conduct problems and the effect on others are intermediate between those specified in "mild" and those in "severe" (e.g. stealing without confronting a victim, vandalism)

Severe: Many conduct problems in excess of those required to make the diagnosis are present, or conduct problems cause considerable harm to others (e.g., forced sex, physical cruelty, use of a weapon, stealing while confronting a victim, breaking and entering).

[End of Quote]

As you can see, the criteria required before age 15 is not as intense as many professionals describe it. Remember that you are only required to have shown 3 out of the total 15 criteria in there. There is even a whole specifier for Conduct Disorder that is mild and only includes things like lying, basic rule-breaking, and/or staying out past curfew.

Acts of physical aggression are not actually required for ASPD at all, it's just that many prosocials see that being one of the possible symptoms and fixate on it, thus pushing everyone with ASPD into the box of physical aggresion. You absolutely can have ASPD and never act on any violent thoughts or urges.

I was also a very sweet and passive child, developing most of my externalized ASPD symptoms (rule breaking, disrespectful behavior/actions, challenging authority, etc) around age 13. However, the internal symptoms were there for me much younger - easily bored with poor handling of boredom, lack of empathetic reactions, difficulty apologizing/showing remorse due to not really feeling it, becoming very angry but not showing it, resulting for me in self destructive behaviors like cheek biting or controlled destructive behaviors like breaking something that wouldn't be missed (pencils and pens mostly for me).

Regardless of what symptoms were shown when, symptoms are still symptoms, and if you had enough for Conduct Disorder or Oppositional Defiant Disorder before your 16th birthday, you are well within possibility of having ASPD. Keep in mind that the lying, manipulation, etc that can qualify for Conduct Disorder doesn't have to be grandiose or destructive except where it is explicitly stated in the criteria that it does (such as fire setting only counting for the destruction of property criteria if you meant to damage something with said fire).

It's so easy to count yourself out of ASPD because you don't fit the stereotypes or public perception of ASPD, but I assure you that there are many, many ways something as complex as a personality disorder can show itself.

It is absolutely a great thing, however, that you are covering your bases and making sure to do the research to see if this is what you have. That is the basis of an informed self-dx, should you come to the conclusion that you have ASPD.

Now, as for actually getting diagnosed, your mileage may vary with professionals. Many have bias against pwASPD ingrained into their practice, and won't diagnose you with it even though you have it if you aren't/weren't violent, law-breaking, or if they just think you "seem far too kind to have ASPD" (a real quote a former professional said to me a few months before I was diagnosed by my long-time psychiatrist). This doesn't mean you don't have ASPD. If they can't give you other explanations that make sense, and if their reasons for denying you that diagnosis are based in stigma or anything other than actual criteria, then you are well within your rights to continue being self-dx.

A professional should be able to explain, using criteria, why you don't have a disorder you think you may have. If they're doing their job, they should be willing to explain to you what their reasons are and point you in the direction they think may be causing the symptoms. And no, "just acting like a teenager" isn't good enough if enough symptoms have persisted into adulthood for you to meet the criteria for ASPD.

I hope this helps, apologies for it being so long.

#aspd-culture-is #aspd culture is #aspd culture #conduct disorder #oppositional defiant disorder #odd #cd #diagnostic criteria #dsm v tr #dsm v #actually aspd #aspd #aspd awareness #actually antisocial #antisocial personality disorder #aspd traits #anons welcome

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tombfreak · 3 months

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Why can't minors be diagnosed with ASPD?

Well, partially because its written right into the DSM-5. Any doctor in their right mind wouldn't diagnose anyone under 18 with antisocial personality disorder. But why is that? (TLDR at the end)

Most minors who exhibit dysfunctional behavioural issues will go on to be diagnosed with conduct disorder (CD). Having a history of conduct disorder symptoms in childhood is necessary for an ASPD diagnosis. If theres trouble, theres a cause, and in medical practice, we strive to find ways to treat the causes of trouble.

Professionals diagnose someone with a disorder for the sole purpose of treating them. We diagnose someone with cancer so we know to give them chemotherapy, we diagnose someone with schizophrenia so we know to give them antipsychotics instead of stimulants.

Up to 50% of minors with CD will go on to develop ASPD. The reason why we don't diagnose ASPD in minors, is because the progression of conduct issues in childhood -> ASPD is preventable. Did you know that 92% of kids with conduct issues improved their symptoms because their parents took parenting classes? Once someones symptoms gets to the developmental point of being as severe as ASPD, their symptoms are ingrained in their personality, beliefs, and behaviour. They wont be able to be treated by having their parents go to classes.

We diagnose minors with CD instead of ASPD because we treat minors with behavioural issues by looking at their parents and the issues in their life that may be causing them to act out (which is, as I said, most likely their parents.) ASPD isn't necessarily treated that way. The goal is to stop minors from progressing into the severity of ASPD, not to diagnose them with it right off the bat when we know for a fact it can be prevented.

TLDR; Conduct disorder can progress into ASPD, but ASPD cant progress into conduct disorder. We diagnose minors with CD because we want to catch the symptoms progressing into more severe territories before it happens. The treatment for the two disorders are different.

#opinion #aspd #antisocial personality disorder #aspd awareness #aspd things #aspd positivity #actually aspd #conduct disorder #psychology #cluster b pds #cluster b #cluster b awareness #personality disorder #antisocial pd

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demonized-infodumps · 12 days

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I often say that I’m happy being so mentally ill, and I really am. I don’t know what I would have done as a neurotypical. I hold suspicion that I have many stigmatised disorders (SzPD, AvPD, Conduct disorder, Narcissism, schizophrenia, did) and I honestly wouldn’t have it any other way. I love the scare factor, I’d love to be called a monster and sick or disgusting, I’d love the fear. I know having disorders such as these in my records if I’m right about having them would probably have devastating consequences for my livelihood and life, but I am willing to risk it.

[Would you like us to add SzPD, AvPD and Conduct Disorder to our tags?]

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occultist-romantic · 8 months

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this is fucking crazy to me i mean people w npd arent mythological demons, how the hell does someone's eyes turn black. these shitheads are just ableist, no other explanation. these survivors gather to shit on people who were ALSO traumatized as a child.

if you support every other mental illness except for cluster b disorders, schizophrenia, did, etc. then you are ableist. you're not that mental health advocate you think you are.

not every abuser is a narcissist, psychopath, sociopath, etc. abusers are people who choose to abuse. abuse is something that is done INTENTIONALLY. you can see someone who is hurting.

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youlookkindadead · 3 months

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any tips on showing affection / care / love when you have no empathy and struggle with compassion?? i've been meaning to work on it grah

#♡ muyang mewls #actually npd #npd #actually narcissistic #cluster b #low empathy #no empathy #aspd #actually antisocial #actually aspd #conduct disorder

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antisocial-teen · 2 years

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I’ve always thought that (generally speaking) people with low or no empathy have the capability to be better/nicer people than those with empathy. Growing up without empathy means you have to learn how to be nice, to everyone, and you probably understand what kindness is more. Growing up with empathy means you never have to learn this stuff, it just comes to you naturally. And then when there’s someone they don’t feel empathy for, they aren’t able to be nice or kind to them. Because we have to learn this stuff, we do it for everyone. People who have empathy will never feel it for every single person or people who differ from them in any way, and it shows.

#conduct disorder #empathy #low empathy #no empathy #aspd #oppositional defiant disorder #conduct disordered #actually aspd

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redacted-coiner · 9 days

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MADD, Bipolar, Ehlers Danlos Symdrome(link)

Erotomania(link), Alexithymia, Endometriosis(link)

Oppositional Defiant Disorder(link), Sensory Processing Disorder(link), Conduct Disorder(link)

DNI is listed within my pinned post. Please go read it before interacting with any part of my content. Ask to tag!

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frankiistein · 7 months

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come on look at this drawing. this is exactly what being in aba feels like. anyway...

bien and sar as a portrayal of a "troubled teen" with autism/adhd/aspd and an aba therapist: a breadavota analysis

finally blogging about the ending of intermission 1 of @breadavota

gui on the bbs has already noticed most of the stuff from the new update so tbh not much else left to say. thank u once again for the loyal breadposting

not related but i just noticed the bbs has the homestuck colors naur

instead of analyzing every part of the new update im just going to focus on the depiction of sar as being a (pseudo) aba therapist, along with my "bien is so autismcoded" hc

bien as an autistic character (+ adhd and conduct disorder/oppositional defiant disorder/aspd)

first of all altho afaik none of the characters are written intentionally to be autistic and adhd but both sc and bien have traits of it, altho i will just focus on bien here who i feel is autistic, adhd and has cd/odd (which could be aspd now bcuz hes already an adult). i think the aspd hc has more credence bcuz the author has aspd

seen as "stupid" by others, especially because he has issues with working memory and attention, altho i dont think hes particularly "stupid" but more that he has trouble w/ abstract thinking and memories, he takes things literally (like when he messes w/ sars pens after being told not to touch only his books)

inexpressive facial expressions, he usually has a neutral face no matter the situation

seems to get bored easily and needs to do extreme things to stimulate himself, particularly his violent tendencies towards animals

special interests/hyperfixations. he doesnt show an interest in anything except things related to violence (murder, weapons, wars) or sc, and to a lesser extent playing the piano

on top of that some level of social inappropriate behavior, altho its harder to say w/ so few interactions between him and other characters. the one chapter where he talks to the other soldiers he wasnt very friendly towards them, and based on how he talks to ava (hard to tell if he talks like this to everyone tho) he has the tendency to bring up his relationship to sc even in situations where its not appropriate or relevant

"awkwardness" aside he has a disregard for other ppl as a whole and seems unable to emphatize with hurting others

struggles with "basic" tasks and is anxious abt leaving sc and having to live on his own

wants to have "explanations" for everything he does before doing it, seen in how he is frustrated with avas vagueness

some sensory sensitivies since he looks to be bothered by "loud noises", altho its a bit vague bcuz the demons seem to have a synthesia like (?) way of perceiving the world. bon at least has been implied to lash out from these sensitivities which 2 me is similar to meltdowns, and sar shows concern that the brightness outside might bother bien

anyway moving on to sar, this is probably noticed by some ppl from the older updates already but the premack principle (explaining more later) is what made it noticed for me, that sar acts similar to an aba therapist, or at least uses some of the same principles in aba to manipulate bien

focus on eye contact

first of all i agree w/ gui the decision to write only in sars pov and to never directly show what biens dialogue at all is great! i think it highlights that feeling of bien not being allowed his autonomy and makes it feel rly more like some therapy session where ur not allowed to make ur own decisions, it also forces us to rely on sars narration of events even tho hes not a trustworthy person

bcuz we cant see bien we also dont know if anything in the place is distracting or bothering him. the last updates established he finds the way the house "sounds" to be rly disturbing (again poiting to sensory sensitivity), and the way the story focuses not on why he might not be looking at sar and instead only looks at his "problem behavior" reminds me of my own experiences with aba before

sar commands eye contact from bien with the simple repetition of the phrase "look at me". this very first one stands out because of how its inserted right in the middle of his dialogue, showing sars intention to make sure bien "focuses" on what hes currently saying, like he needs bien to be looking at him to "prove" he is listening. reading it in real time the first "look at me" is almost unnoticable until the next ones

i noticed the first one is also early on in the update, and he doesnt say it again until later on where all the "look at mes" are closer together. this happens when bien reads the research paper with the "blocks". i think it implies bien is more uncomfortable or stressed out from this activity and being overwhelmed by it, he looks away more frequently, its a subtle detail that i cant help but noticed!

premack principle/first, then

this is what stood out to me the most, sar pretends to "offer" autonomy to bien sometimes by letting him decide some minor things like what to eat for the break, or to let him make minor adjustments to the overall "daily schedule" but i noticed the entire "lesson" is decided by sar, who makes bien do a "harder" task first before moving on to something bien might want to do (eat cake/listen to the piano) or to "something easier"

some standing out parts:

reading this, especially "of course, i believe you can do it" its clear that bien doesnt necessarily want to move to the "easier" tasks and he wants to keep trying the current task even if hes not doing "well". the desire to move to "something easier" is always something sar decides because of his estimation of biens incompetence, and not out of biens own unwillingness to keep trying.

speaking of the schedule, its interesting, sar doesnt simply say he will make time in biens daily schedule to let him play the piano, he says bien will be allowed to have piano lessons, meaning hes still planning to use even biens hobbies/interests as a opportunity to "educate" him or as "reinforcerment" for him to do "good" behaviors first. i can imagine in the future biens desire to play the piano is going to be used against him, so that hes only allowed to do it if he "studies" first

reinforcements and "safe foods"

in the premack principle/"token economy" a reward is used to motivate the "good behavior" and here we see sar using food as that reinforcement. also sar doesnt punish bien here (also hello bien and his super literal thinking, autistic king), he tells bien to keep reading while sar cleans up.

the idea of not using punishment to be more "humane" is indeed a part of modern aba (traditional aba utilized punishments before this was dropped) but that doesnt account for all the other issues with aba, and again with the lack of autonomy he assumes bien "messing with the pens" is an "accident" (instead of explaining more literally not to touch the pens - its possible bien did it on purpose but is unaware why this is a "big deal" and wouldnt understand why sar is pointing it out to begin with), and he also doesnt ask bien if he wants to help clean up, or why he touched the pens to begin with.

for all we know bien got bored and started stimming with the pens (esp bcuz chewing or clicking pens is a common stim, we dont know what sar means with "messed with" here), sar could of at least asked first why bien did that anyway and like?? let him borrow a pen??? lmao???

anyway, back to the cake, in a previous updates its shown bien likes cake and i think this establishes cake as a sort of "safe food" for bien

this is something gui pointed out that i didnt notice at first, but notably bien asks for just a chocolate cake, and sar gives him a devils food cake that has vanilla in it. its something so "small" that bien will look bad if he complains abt it, but sar ignoring a very specific request bien had is a common autistic experience when it comes to safe foods and being told just to be "picky eater"

assumptions of biens incompetence/struggles

its no secret bien seems to struggle with "intelligent" matters but notably nobody ever stops to ask what he stuggles with, its always assumed for him. while ava is more obviously dismissive, sar also does the exact same thing and just sounds "nicer" about it

lack of proper explanations

despite being an expository character sar notably doesnt explain things in a way that would be useful to bien. my personal observation of bien and why i dont think hes "stupid" (not in the way the others sy he is) is that he asks a lot of logical questions! whenever ava tells him a story abt the history of angels/marginals, or asks him to do a new task, bien makes a lot of sensible observations ("if angels marginals and demons are the immortals and youre not an angel then what are you?")

the things he questions the most are information that comes out of nowhere (the recursive panopticon, sars first appearance, the margibird that came out of his radio etc), and other people treat him like an idiot for just not automatically knowing these "obvious" things that would make sense for him to know!

honestly viewing bien in this lens it suddenly makes alot more sense why the story jumps around so much and introduces "weird" lore seemingly at random, i think it rly helps simulate the feeling of confusion bien (and also bread) are meant to have

and of course where would we be w/o sars insistence that bien always say thank you even tho he never explains what bien should even be thanking him for.

general infantilization

as a whole sars tone is very infantilizing w/ how he always gives reassurances and goes "do you understand?" "___, okay?"

also he decides to give bien storybooks (probably for kids) and plushies to help with sleeping lmao??? we dont even know yet if hes going to have sleeping problems in anselir.

ofc nothing is inherently wrong with needing things considered "childish" with accomodations, lots of autistic people benefit from simpler talking to them or from sensory aids and similar in their daily life. but again its bad here because bien gives no indication these are the specific accomodations he even needs, sar simply assumes them for him. i think especially knowing bien seems insecure over his incompetence and his ability to "grow up" and be an independent adult living away from his father, it makes treating him like a dependent child even worse in that contexts.

disrespect for personal boundaries/touching

this is definitely the creepiest part and again the lack of biens side of things makes it vague what sar is doing

the way its immersed in the dialogue again is a good choice, just shows sar talking and acting "normally" even when things are decidedly not normal

the comment abt the hair makes it obvious that sar is touching bien, altho to what extent the "touching" goes is obviously deliberately vague. honestly it almost looks like sa :") regardless the pressure to do "affectionate" gestures is so relatable, especially as an autistic kid where adults always pressure you to hug them or show some other form of physical affection, and the way ppl touching u w/o permission is so common.

(i did ask the author abt this, to which they said its supposed to be vague so its not sexual but its also not not sexual. but that they personally wrote it to be them sitting next to each other with sar just condescendingly petting him on the head at some point like he did the last updates, and the "try not to squirm" comment was abt sitting properly, but that this was just how they imagined it and isnt "canon" bcuz its supposed to be open-ended)

bonus:

a subtle thing i almost dont noticed but the last "what blocks" is slightly bigger as if to show a slight raise in voice, rly feels like sitting in a suffocating room with this guy. ily sar but u suck

that is the end of my breadposting thank u and goodbye. ^_^

#breadavota #long post #tagging ooo #actuallyautistic #actually autistic #aspd #antisocial personality disorder #conduct disorder #oppositional defiant disorder #autism #adhd #comic review #aba #applied behavior analysis #applied behavioral analysis #aba therapy #aba tw

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antisocialcultureis · 23 days

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ODD/antisocial culture is wanting to do something but then someone tries to order me to do it and now I feel like they’re trying to force me to do things so I don’t do it😭

ODD/antisocial culture is!

#actually aspd #antisocialpersonalitydisorder #first ask #aspd #cluster b pd #cluster b #pd #personality disorder #antisocial culture is #antisocial #oppositional defiant disorder #conduct disorder

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neurosharky · 17 days

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How ASPD Spaces may influence minors with CD

This post will only contain my personal opinion and experience. It does not reflect or represent the opinion of every single person with ASPD, but may likewise be relatable for people who do not have it!

Please keep in mind that this is merely an education piece and seeks to highlight certain experiences & things one should maybe pay attention to. It is not a manual to act after, nor does it have the intention to exclude minors with CD from ASPD spaces!

Abbreviations:

ASPD = Antisocial Personality Disorder

CD = Conduct Disorder

ASPD spaces exist on most social media platforms in some sort of way. This may include textposts on tumblr, pictures and reels on instagram, short videos on tiktok, servers on discord and other things.

In a lot of these spaces you will find adults educating about their condition, sharing their daily life, connecting with each other, or advocating against the stigma.

What you will also find in these spaces usually, are minors with conduct disorder. Which makes sense, since the presence of conduct disorder typa behaviour prior to the age of 15, is a diagnostic requirement for ASPD! About 20-40% (different sources have different numbers) of people with CD later go on and develop ASPD and often those people have already been recognized with "callous-unemotional traits" or "a lack of prosocial emotions" and the like.

These minors with CD may turn towards the ASPD spaces for multiple reasons:

• The similarity in experience creating a sense of community & feeling less alone

• Some advice, ressources and the like are applicable to both CD and ASPD

• Wanting advice on how to proceed towards an ASPD diagnosis once they're old enough/whether they should do that in the first place

• Believing that this is inevitably going to be their reality & community, thus wanting to be there as early as possible

• etc.

The fact that minors with CD frequent ASPD spaces is not inherently a problem, nor do I think that they should stop doing that entirely! I do have a few concerns though, as I technically speaking was a minor with CD in ASPD spaces once and would like to point some things out, that I think are important to look out for:

1. Not every ASPDer that posts their experience, is recovery oriented and should be used as a "role model". There are a lot of people in this community that are strictly anti recovery and will promote harmful narratives and behaviours. While everyone obviously (mostly) gets to post whatever they want, since the internet is a pretty free place, especially minors with CD (tho this also goes for adults with ASPD and everyone else tbh) should make sure to be careful with their content consumption! The "wrong" role models can be really harmful for your own journey, as they may promote harmful behaviour and thus may intensify your symptoms!

2. On that same note, spending a lot of time around a specific group of people, may cause you to subconciously mirror their behaviour. This means that you may (knowingly or not) try to be more like said people/group, may suppress your actual self & variation of traits and try to conform to what you see, so you can be a part of it. Its an entirely normal human mechanism, but can be quite detrimental to your mental health if you're not careful. As a minor with CD in ASPD spaces, this means that you gotta be careful that you do not get roped into behaviours or movements, that would be detrimental. Spotting this isn't always easy, so caution is important!

3. The presence of the "CD prior to the age of 15" criteria point also leads to some people believing that everyone with conduct disorder inherently develops ASPD, which is not true! Some people go on and develop other PDs, some simply stay with conduct disorder and again others recover from their CD without developing anything else, which is probably the ideal case. Early intervention, intervention in teenage years and the like can prevent you from ever developing ASPD! And this may be a controversial opinion, but: that will only work if you haven't gotten attached to the idea of having ASPD yet. Intervention only works if you want it to and if you are deadset on believing you'll have ASPD anyways, the intervention may fail and you may indeed end up developing it. You have to be careful that being in these spaces early, does not cause you to give up your chances.

To sum it up: ASPD spaces can negatively influence minors with CD. Being in these spaces early and especially being around the "wrong" voices early can compromise your recovery and can be a reason you end up going into this direction with your behaviour. The teenage years are an important developmental stage and having the "right" voices teach you emotional skills & social behaviour can be the thing that prevents you from ever having to suffer with a PD.

So please keep that in mind! Be careful which ASPDers you look up to, be careful what behaviour you promote, be careful what you think is going to be your "inevitable future". These spaces hold power and they especially hold power over those who may not have anywhere else to really turn to & feel understood by.

And just to clarify it again:

• I am not saying that you can't be in those spaces if you're a minor with CD and I am not saying that its always harmful! I am just saying that the people you surround yourself with, the content you consume and the things you get exposed to, can have an influence on the way you develop & your recovery.

• I am also not saying that ASPDers who aren't recovery oriented have no right to exist in these spaces! What you post and where you are is your own decision, I can't & don't want to dictate that. I simply think that especially minors with CD need to be aware of what they consume and what effects that may have on them.

• Recovery in this case is btw. defined as "working on managing symptoms/traits" and "harm reduction". I am not referring to a total absence of symptoms/traits, or a cure or whatever. So anti recovery refers to people who promote harm and have no interest in minimizing the damage they do & sometimes also the ones who use it as an excuse instead of an explanation.

All that being said, there are of course also a few positive influences ASPD spaces can have on minors with CD:

• giving them a sense of hope that even if they end up developing it, there are ways to deal with it

• having helpful posts and advice for the things that both conditions equally struggle with

• teaching skills that end up helping the kids/teens with CD to not develop ASPD

• helping them find a safe way to access help & a diagnosis

• showing them that they have a chance to grow older & potentially be happier

• getting trough to them about which behaviours are harmful and could use some work

• educating them about the stigma so they are prepared for what is maybe going to come & learn how to deal with the stigma they are already exposed to

• calling out myths, misinformation and inaccurate generalizations

• etc.

first posted on my instagram account (same @)

#actually aspd #aspd #mental health #mental health education #antisocial personality disorder #aspd awareness #antisocial #aspd feels #aspd thoughts #aspd things #aspd tag #aspd safe #aspd stigma #conduct disorder #aspd spaces #mental heath awareness #mental heath support

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