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noperopesaredope · 1 year

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The Encanto Neurodivergent Discourse: A Retrospective (Kinda)

So I was thinking back on the Encanto neurodivergent discourse that occurred after the movie came out, and I realized that there was a huge misunderstanding between the two sides that caused the main part of the discourse. So I decided to do a small retrospective type thing on this discourse, my opinions, and where each side went wrong/misunderstood the other’s argument.

So, first let’s start with the elephant in the room: Bruno. If you’ve seen some of my posts on this topic, you know where I stood/stand. Of course, my opinions have slightly altered to become more neutral (or at least softer) on this particular point, but I would still like to explain and unpack where each side went wrong here.

In my personal experience, the reason that multiple neurodivergent people believe/believed that Bruno is neurodivergent isn’t because of his superstitions, but because of multiple of his other mannerisms, as well as how it ties to one of the themes of the movie, or at least what he represents in terms of the main theme. I originally thought to myself, “oh my god, this bitch be autistic,” not when he started doing the rituals, but actually when he was first introduced and how he spoke to Mirabel. He stared at her for a few seconds before abruptly saying “bye,” and brushing past her. I (and others) have actually done this in real life, sometimes mid conversation.

His speaking mannerisms are also very familiar, with the way he rambles and how his phrases things, as well as how his sentence structures flow. And when he was explaining stuff about his visions, we realize that many of the visions mentioned in “We Don’t Talk About Bruno” were likely just regular predictions, showing that he is likely very blunt. The wedding incident, as he explained, was mainly just him not at all reading the room or knowing how to properly comfort his sister. This is common for people with things like autism, and likely other neurodivergent things that affect socializing. It’s less about the rituals, and more about the socialization style.

Now onto to talking about how OCD works and why Bruno’s rituals are seen as parts of OCD. I myself have OCD (very mild in terms of most rituals, but very intense in terms of intrusive thoughts, so highly stressful) and a good understanding of the disorder, so I believe I can add my two cents in a credible manner.

OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) is a neurological condition in which an individual will experience unwanted, excessing, persistent, recurring thoughts that will cause the person to engage in repetitive behaviors in order to diminish the amount/intensity of the thoughts.

The reason people felt that Bruno likely had OCD was not really because of the rituals themselves, but how often Bruno did them and when.

Most people would perform good luck rituals if they saw a sign that something bad was going to happen. For example, breaking a mirror is bad luck, so it would be reasonable to do something that would ward off that bad luck. You could also do such rituals if you needed extra good luck for something, like an important test. I myself do this sometimes (I’m not superstitious, but I’m also kinda superstitious), and it has nothing to do with my OCD.

But Bruno doesn’t seem to just do it when bad luck comes around, or when he needs good luck. He seems to do it a lot more excessively than most people, and it seems that he believes that there is always bad luck in the air. He seems to be doing these rituals repetitively.

And I honestly think that, because his rituals originate from his culture, it makes for better representation. You see, OCD rituals typically aren’t completely random. While things like counting tiles can be “random” rituals, the most likely way OCD will manifest is tied to the nature of some of the intrusive thoughts, as well as some of the individual’s other fears. Their rituals will then often be tied to something familiar or even something comforting. While this is not always the case, it can be. For example, say someone has OCD, and a majority of their intrusive thoughts revolve around germs. This may cause them to persistently clean their hands, and they will do this repetitively, even when they have no reasonable reason to believe that they are “contaminated.”

In Bruno’s case, his thoughts most likely seem to be that he is bad luck, causes bad luck, or bad luck is at every turn. These thoughts are likely constant and persistent, so he feels a consistent need to ward off bad luck. This is why he will perform rituals known to cause good luck and ward off bad luck, just like washing your hands will make germs go away. That’s why I think he has OCD.

It also adds to his theme in the movie, which a lot of neurodivergent people can relate to: being an outcast in the family, the one who acts strangely, the one who seems to be “embarrassing” to the family, the one that no one talks about (or they talk too much about). I have family members who can relate to this, because though we have multiple autistic folks in the extended family tree, not many in said tree seem to fully understand what it is like to be on the spectrum or generally neurodivergent. I see multiple of my family members who are like Bruno in that specific way, and it kinda made me cry.

So it makes a lot of sense why people would view him that way.

But here’s where things went wrong. First, many neurodivergent people got so excited about the prospect of having good representation, they got a bit carried away, and, from what I’ve heard, started saying that the movie was about neurodivergent representation, or they completely ignored the Colombian representation. This was obviously very irritating to many Colombians, as this movie was very significant in terms of Colombian representation, and to ignore that was insulting.

When some Colombians started telling people that these rituals were actually a part of Colombian culture, a small, yet significant miscommunication/error occurred. Some of the more (I’m assuming) neurotypical Colombians seemed to assume that those headcanoning Bruno as neurodivergent were basing it solely on his rituals. From that assumption rose a (pretty reasonable) assumption that others saw Colombian superstitions as a whole as solely an OCD ritual rather than a cultural one.

However, though these superstitions originated from Colombia (and I’m assuming other Latin American countries?), they are not unfamiliar to other countries and cultures. Even the least-Latino people I know were familiar with knocking on wood, crossing your fingers, or throwing salt over your shoulder for good luck. Many of them did it themselves. So I’m pretty sure that most people making the headcanons didn’t see the rituals as “exotic” or “strange”, but it is perfectly reasonable to assume that they did.

A lot of non-Latino and non-Colombian folks were not completely familiar with Colombian culture or some little details they added to the film, and people who aren’t familiar with certain cultures tend to do that, which is frustrating. And there were definitely quite a lot of people in the fanbase who were constantly ignoring and brushing aside the Colombian aspects of the film.

But instead of trying to clear this matter up and explain why many neurodivergent people saw Bruno’s rituals as OCD rituals, most people immediately jumped to a defensive position, and became dismissive of their concerns over how people were portraying Colombian culture and even ignoring very valid points on how people were brushing over the importance of cultural representation in the film, because whether you like it or not, I will say that the primary representation in the film was cultural.

So many Colombians ended up feeling frustrated, because instead of having a proper conversation about how to interpret this part of Bruno’s character and see why people are perceiving him that way, many Colombian voices and concerns were drowned out, ignored, or even dismissed. Some people even dismissed Colombian culture entirely, and I remember seeing a few people basically say that those rituals weren’t actually a part of Colombian culture, which is a horrible thing to do/say.

The aggressive backlash to the points on cultural representation caused a responsive backlash from particularly frustrated Colombian voices. Though the loudest voices were likely the minority, they still had a strong negative impact. The loudest and most extreme voices essentially began dismissing neurodivergent voices, and even made some very ableist comments. This particular backlash (at least in many of the circles I was in) eventually began drowning out neurodivergent voices who were more willing to explain their stance, which caused its own wave of frustration, etc.

That was the main issue with that particular discourse.

Now for Dolores, that is a whole other story. From what I could find, the main (and lowkey only?) reason that people believed Dolores is neurodivergent is because of her “hm!” that she makes throughout the movie. Some say that this is a tic, others that this is a stim. I think some of us jumped to that conclusion way too quickly. Multiple Colombians explained that that is actually a cultural thing, something that many people do quite often. And they are likely right that this is not a sign of Dolores being neurodivergent. First off, she only makes this noise during very specific moments. If you replaced the sound with “huh!” or even “oh well!”, it wouldn’t feel that out of place.

It is a response to situations, and specifically when she ends certain statements. So it is less random than a tic. She also never really uses it as a self soothing mechanism or a way to express certain emotions, which is what stims are mainly for. So we can likely rule out stimming. So it is perfectly reasonable for many Colombian folks to be frustrated about this, because it takes one trait and turns it into something else rather than a cultural element.

I think the reason some people may have jumped to the conclusion that it was a stim is because it is actually a very soothing sound that actually became a minor stim for me after I heard it. I don’t quite “copy” some people’s stims, but I may see/hear one, think it looks calming, do the thing, and then it becomes something that evolves into a stim. This is likely the reason that people thought that Dolores is neurodivergent: because they have/like that particular potential stim (or tic).

Doesn’t really make it any better though, and it is probably pretty annoying to those who know that it’s most likely not a stim or tic in Dolores’ case. Especially since some neurodivergent folks were dismissing Colombian culture in the Bruno discourse, and it gets really frustrating and annoying after a while (or even the second it happens). Having every aspect of one’s culture be labelled as something else is uncomfortable, especially when (I assume) many of the people making these headcanons were White Americans who know nothing about Colombia or even Latin America.

So that is where the neurodivergent side of the discourse were the most in the wrong.

For little things like Neurodivergent Mirabel headcanons? Eh, they seem to be more obscure and are truly just headcanons. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone try to actively prove that she or any other characters are neurodivergent, it’s more just a basic neurodivergent headcanon like any other.

I won’t even get into what went wrong with the “Lesbian Isabella” discourse (especially since I didn’t really pay attention to that one, and this post is about the neurodivergent discourse), but all I’ll say on that is that Colombian lesbians should probably be the ones to decide whether or not we should write Lesbian Isabella stuff. I personally think it can be harmless to portray a character as queer whether they are actually queer or not in canon, but for cases like Encanto, which takes place in a specific country with a specific culture, I think we should always consider what it is like to be queer in that specific country and culture. Not every queer community across the world is going to be the same, and we need to respect that. A queer Colombian will have a very different experience from a, for example, queer American.

This can honestly apply to all the discourse. The main reason I like the idea of Bruno being neurodivergent is because, as I said in a poem I wrote here on Tumblr, I have an autistic Colombian American older cousin, and her heritage affects her experience with that part of her identity. Most autistic portrayals we see in the media are from a White (and non-Hispanic) lens, and most of the time, they’re not even that good! So for a Colombian person to be seen in that way is amazing. But that type of representation is mainly for those whose intersectionality is never represented. We need to show and respect that intersectionality as much as possible, and should be careful with how we portray someone with that type of intersectional experience.

But enough on that. If you’re reading this part, thank you for reading this giant post analyzing and explaining this specific subject. I hope you enjoyed, and please add your thoughts in the replies and reblogs!

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jasontoddssuper · 1 year

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Mirabel Madrigal x Autistic S/O?

Ooooo i like this one!!!

Very supportive of your special interests!!She even makes you stuff based off them♡

Always looks at you with adoring eyes when you stim

I hc she's also autistic so you be like 'autism to autism communication'

Knows exactly what to do when you have a meltdown and what causes them so she does her best to help you out

#user1046 #mirabel madrigal x reader #encanto #autistic girl summer #askxaquestion

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brunofanfiction · 1 year

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🐀 Autistic! Bruno Madrigal 🐀

Master list! (Pt.1)

🐀Unmask With Me

By @brightredsunset800

“Both Mirabel and Bruno learn to unmask; Bruno with his autism and Mirabel with learning how to love herself.” #toothrottingfluff #stimming

🐀 The One to Blame (Series)

- 11 fics exploring the familias reactions to Bruno’s disappearance and his autism.

“After Bruno's disappearance everybody in the Madrigal family blamed themselves.” #hurt/comfort #ableism #breakdowns

🐀 Bajo la arena sin poder salir

By @brittlebutch

“Bruno can’t let them find out all the ways that he’s been hurt and hurting over the years. He can’t let them see how badly he’s still struggling. Bruno has been the guardian of terrible things ever since he was five years old, and these secrets are nothing new nor different.” #hurt/comfort #angst #healing

🐀 Quiet and Comfort

By @pasta-stuffed-possums

“Dolores slips away from a party to her room, overwhelmed by the volume and needing the soundproofed room to calm down. She isn't the only one who gets particularly overwhelmed at social events.” #fluff #stimming

TW: SH (hair pulling)

🐀 Cuñado

By @special-consultant-ortega

“How a brother-in-law becomes a friend.

Series of vignettes, set shortly after Agustín's marriage to Julieta.” #hurt/comfort #familybonding

Chapters have TWs

🐀 Memories

By @im-just-a-br0adway-baby

“After the triplets' fifty-first birthday party, the Madrigals end the night by looking at old photo albums.” #fluff #somecrying

#bruno madrigal #mirabel madrigal #julieta madrigal #bruno madrigal centric #bruno madrigal fanfiction #pepa madrigal #abuela madrigal #familia madrigal #angst #fluff #healing #hurt/comfort #Bruno madrigal stims #autistic bruno madrigal

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amberbominable · 1 year

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New special interest jus dropped. I FUCKING LOVE ENCANTO!!!

#encanto #encanto dolls #disney #disney encanto #mirabel madrigal #encanto isabela #luisa magridal #special interest #hyperfixation #wishlist #doll collector #toy collector #actually autistic #autism #asd #autistic #build a bear

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im-just-a-br0adway-baby · 6 months

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Encantober 2023 Day 29: Mask

One of the hardest things for Pepa and Bruno since they were younger was unmasking. Their mother drilled in their heads about how important it was to present oneself in a way that was appealing, and unfortunately, most of the village never found either of their behaviors to be appealing at all. They had to train themselves to pretend to be something they were not just so they could be accepted.

After Pepa and Julieta had their children, they did not want to tell them to please others like Alma told them. However, Alma insisted on making sure all of her grandchildren presented well to others like her children. That gave all the children mixed messages, but especially to Dolores, Mirabel, and Antonio. While Alma was telling them to make sure most of the village liked them, their parents encouraged them to be themselves, and the two were complete opposites of each other.

One sunny day in the Encanto, when Mirabel got home from school, she dropped her books on the couch in Casita’s living room and laid on the couch, on the verge of tears. She laid there for a half hour until Bruno walked into the living room to notice his youngest niece about to cry with exhaustion.

“What’s the matter, sobrina?” Bruno asked as he sat on the couch where Mirabel’s feet were.

Mirabel opened her eyes and looked at Bruno while still laying down. “Bruno, I want to ask you something.”

“Sure; what is it?”

“Do you remember when you were my age, and you had to mask yourself for an entire week? Was it exhausting?”

Bruno scooted closer to Mirabel. “I will tell you right now, it was. I remember when your mama, your tia, and I were your age, guiding adolescence was difficult enough as it was. But for Pepa and I, it was a lot more difficult. For a while, we didn’t know what was wrong with us, we tried so hard to fit in because our mama told us to, but we just couldn’t.”

“That sounds like how I’m feeling right now.”

“But you want to know something? Your mami was the one to give us a safe space to unmask. She would take us to the park and we would have an open space to be ourselves and let all of our emotions out.”

Mirabel sat up from the couch and gave her tio a hug. “Were you able to give Dolores a safe place to unmask when she was my age?”

“Si, Pepa wanted her daughter to not worry about her image the way she and I had to, so she would take her to the same park that Julieta took us to so she could let her own feelings out like she and I did.”

Mirabel scooted closer to her tio and gave him another hug. “If you don’t mind me asking, can we go to the park together? And maybe ask Antonio if he wants to go? I think he would appreciate the space too.”

“Sure, Mira; I saw Antonio go up to his room when you all got home. We can go get him and ask him right now.”

Mirabel and Bruno went upstairs to see if Antonio was in his room. They saw him in his bed playing with Parce and Mirabel waved to signal him. Antonio stopped what he was doing to notice Mirabel and Bruno by his door.

“Hola, Mirabel and Bruno, what’s up?”

“We want to know if you want to go to the park with us,” Mirabel replied.

“I would love to! Let’s go!”

-----------------------------------------------

Once Bruno, Mirabel, and Antonio got to the park, they sat underneath a tree that the triplets sat under together, and later Pepa and Dolores together. They sat in a triangle together so they could talk together.

“This is where your tia used to take your mami and me when we were younger, Tonito. Your abuela would often make sure we were being presentable to the rest of the village, and it made us feel stressed. So, Julieta took us here as a space for us to be ourselves without the fear of being judged by the rest of the village.”

“Mami told me a little bit about that. She also said she took Dolores here when she was younger too?”

“Si.”

“So… what do I do here?”

“Anything you want. It’s your space to be yourself and let your feelings out in any way you see fit.”

Mirabel then laid on the grass and screamed at the top of her lungs. She felt like they were far enough from the village that nobody but Dolores could hear her. Antonio laid down on the grass and also screamed at the top of his lungs. Bruno decided to join in with his niece and nephew and laid down on the grass to scream with them. It turned into a screaming match until they felt like they were losing their voices.

“Didn’t that feel so good?” Bruno asked as he sat up.

“It felt amazing. I feel so much better already,” Mirabel replied.

“So do I,” Antonio added.

“That was how we felt when Julieta took us here for the first time. We felt like we finally found a place where we could be ourselves and we were so grateful that Julieta brought us here to give us that space.”

“What were some other things you did together?”

“We also found a big empty space to dance around together. Julieta would join in with us all the time too.”

Bruno, Mirabel, and Antonio stood up and ran from the tree to an empty space in the park where no one was and they held hands together. The uncle, niece, and nephew pulled each other in a circle and laughed together until they got dizzy and fell to the ground laying down, laughing together again.

“That felt so good!” Mirabel said as she sat up.

“Gracias, Bruno, for taking us here,” Antonio added.

“De nada, Mira and Tonito. But we’re going to have to get going. Julieta is probably cooking dinner as we speak and she’s going to wonder where we are,” Bruno said.

Bruno, Mirabel, and Antonio got up from the grass and started walking back home. Like Bruno and Pepa when Julieta brought them there, and Dolores when Pepa brought her there, Mirabel and Antonio were more than grateful that Bruno brought them to the park to help them find a space to be themselves and let their feelings out.

“Can you take us every weekend, Tio Bruno?” Antonio asked.

“Absolutely, Antonio; I’m so happy you and Mirabel had a great time today and I could have some fun with you both.”

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everyonesonthespectrum · 2 years

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Today’s Autistic character of the day is:

Mirabel Madrigal from Encanto

#headcanon #mirabel #mirabel madrigal #mirabel encanto #mirabel madrigal encanto #encanto #autism #autistic #actually autistic #autistic characters #autistic character of the day

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personagensautistas · 2 years

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O personagem autista do dia é: Mirabel Madrigal, do filme Encanto.

#filme #mirabel madrigal #encanto #Headcanon Autista #Autistic Headcanon #Your Favorit is autistic #Personagens Autistas #Autistic Character #Your Favorite is Autistic #Autistic Character of the day

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burnt-scone · 1 year

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^Examples^

#I am so poor. Its not even a joke #These can be like Christmas gifts #Idk #bust portrait #portrait #digital illustrator #illustration #illustrator #ofmd #santa #shameless #Ed Teach #frank gallagher #stedebonnet #literally starving artist #Would it help if I said I don’t have kneecaps and have Autism. Baby me like a Autistic cis White man with an Ipad #Encanto #mirabel madrigal #cat

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jarbbb · 7 months

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Okay thoughts on this video

As someone with dyspraxia and autism i don't like how she is going on about wanting 'smart' , 'hard working', 'humble' characters. I think Mirabel was definitely written to be autistic/dyspraxic/neurodivergent and to suggest that 'quirky' characteristics like 'clumsiness' 'talkativeness' 'awkwardness' mean that these characters are not smart and hard working is incredibly judgemental and problematic

The 90s characters had their 'quirks' but traits like opinionatedness , talkativeness, clumsiness and being eccentric shouldn't be treated as 'flaws' because they aren't flaws they are traits that some people will adore you for and some won't but these traits should be embraced and kids should be taught to embrace these traits instead of seeing them in a negative light

The Rapunzel V Tiana comparison absolutely no shade on Tiana here she is one of my favourite princesses but its needless to compare the two and call her the polar opposite to Tiana... like what does Rapunzel do as a character to suggest she is the opposite of humble?? also hard working Rapunzel has lived in a tower for 17 years of her life with no contact with the outside world how would she even know what a job is? also Rapunzel is very hard working at the things she can be hard working at to pass her time in the tower with all of the creative hobbies she does.

'adorkability' isn't always a sign of intelligence - no one ever said it was but it also isn't a sign of someone being unintelligent and people who judge people with these certain traits like that usually are the mean bullies type or the fake people who will be nice to your face but are actually anything but.

Again these 'flaws' shouldn't be treated as bad but its worth noting that villains will and should turn any trait against you as they are bad people and thats what bad people do like how Lady Tremaine turned Cinderella's kindness and hard working against her and used it to control her any trait can be used against you by someone cruel hearted and thats what should be being taught and awkwardness, clumsiness shouldn't always be used in a detrimental way any trait even the 'non quirky ones' can be used.

These quirky characters have been popular because parents want their kids to see movies without cookie cutter stereotypical Disney Princess and see flaws be embraced as well as having relatable, appropriate characters for them , rapunzel was very child like due to her isolation, Anna was awkward and the movie focused on sibling love, Moana was slightly awkward but a resourceful and adventurous princess who goes on a big journey and doesn't end up with a prince, Mirabel as i said was definitely written to be neurodivergent but she is smart...doesn't have any romantic interests...15 so younger than most of the princesses...creative... brings her isolated family member back into the family fold and helps her family unpack their generational trauma and gets her grandma to see that she is hurting her family. Then you have the characters of Merida not a quirky character but a strong character who doesn't look like a stereotypical princess or act like one and goes against being put in an arranged marriage but doesn't fall in love with anyone else and i thought after all the years of criticism of disney princesses this is what people wanted from them? my auntie never really been big on disney has allowed her kids to see movies like frozen, brave and encanto because they don't have the type of characters she didn't like.

Funny enough if there is one movie i watched again and thought this character is stupid its The Little Mermaid as much as i love Disney i didn't relate to many of the old characters out of all of them it was Belle i related to much with her love of reading and dislike of her town. I wish i had a smart but awkward, clumsy and creative character like Mirabel when i was a kid i also wish i had a character like Moana both being an adventurous intelligent heroine but also being awkward i really needed that.

Wish isn't out yet judging it already isn't fair on the actors in it and creative personnel behind it

Mulan's thing is that she wasn't the perfect daughter - Yes but it got the whole movie got a lot of criticism for misogyny even though all the ideas that Mulan needs to be the 'perfect feminine woman' that was mentioned in the start were disapproved at the end when she proved herself and defeated the bad guys

Moana and zootopia i have never seen the latter so can't comment on that one but again you can be smart, resourceful, hard working, kind and caring and still be awkward and clumsy - you say that it can't be logically for their characters? most people are complex and multi layered people there i have logically explained it

Disney isn't for kids - Yes Disney is for families and has a big adult fanbase but do you remember Hunchback of Notre Dame?? it wasn't a flop for most standards but for Disney in the middle of their famed renaissance era it definitely was and that was because it was a much darker, adult film and didn't appeal to little kids. Hunchback is a masterpiece one of my favourite Disney movies but i watched it first when i was 4 or 5 and back then i hated it because it was too adult for me to understand and thats why disney wont do big delves into topics because their main audience is the parents who want their kids entertained for a few hours.

Okay i have never watched wreck it Ralph but from the bits i have seen of Vanellope i always assumed she was a child character due to her size, style and personality and i looked it up and she is literally meant to be nine?? like she is childish and silly because she is a literal nine year old child and shock horror 9 year old children are childlike because they are literal children

I feel like i repeated myself so much in this but i disagreed with most of the statements in this video

#disney #encanto #moana #tangled

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