#I love tumblr but it's not going to give us the kind of impact we want
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For OFMD Tumblr friends who want a S3 and are scared of Twitter
First, no judgment from me. I very much get it. I resisted Twitter for a long time, and even though I'm now a bit more comfortable on it, it's still not my Fandom Home. There are a TON of valid reasons not to be on Twitter, but if you REALLY want to keep OFMD visible right now and help its chances of returning for a third season, Twitter is the best place to do it. Like it or not, Twitter is still the best social media platform for raising awareness and for instant news updates.
Tumblr posts don't make headlines. Topics that have been trending on Twitter do. And if we want this show to come back, we need to make OFMD impossible to ignore.
By now you've probably seen just how close we came to a S3, and if you're like me, you are RAGING and donning your battle jacket. But I get it can be intimidating to get on Twitter for the first time, so I thought I'd address some common anxieties I see. I'll put below a cut because this got a bit long, but I promise it's a quick read.
I don't know what to say! Where do I even start?
That's okay! You don't have to create your own tweets (although it's great if you do). Amplifying other people's posts is also important. Go ahead and like/retweet/reply to other people's posts. This may also help you get an idea of what you may like to say in your own tweets.
Hashtags...yes?
Yes! Although don't use too many or you may get flagged as a bot. The biggest one that seems to be emerging is #SaveOFMD. Other popular ones are #RenewAsACrew, #RenewOurFlagMeansDeath, and of course, #OFMD and #OurFlagMeansDeath.
Should I just be tagging all the streaming services?
Per @renewasacrew, no. It's counterproductive. You'll want to tag one streamer at a time and be specific. Below is an example of a tweet I made the other day -- use specific reasons why that that particular streamer may benefit from picking up OFMD.
I'm scared. People are mean.
Yeah, people are mean. But I will say the vibes over at OFMD Twitter are currently the best I've ever seen them. People seem to have united for the greater good and are being overwhelmingly positive and just trying to do whatever we can to save the show. (That said, again, I already had a pretty curated feed, and was very liberal with blocking users/terms I didn't want to see, but I've been able to spend so much more time in the For You tab than I ever have without being jump scared by something.)
But I don't know anyone there! Wouldn't I just be shouting into the void?
Not if you use the hashtags! Fans are being really good about following those and engaging with the tweets. Plus, [Stede voice], I'm your friend. I'm xoxoemynn over there as well, I'll follow you back and engage with any of your posts that I see. Plus, what's been REALLY lovely to see is that SO many lurkers have come out of lurkerdom to support the efforts, and they are being welcomed with open arms, so you will not be alone. Again, I am telling you, vibes? Best I've ever seen them.
I can't get sucked into another social media platform, I don't have the time.
The beauty here is you don't need to spend a lot of time. I've been on Twitter more in the past week than I have in the entire year I've had an account, and I'm still only on for maybe an hour total the entire day? I open the app, I check a couple accounts, I engage with a handful of posts, and I close the app. It takes all of five minutes. It's an extremely small lift that can have a very big impact.
My bet is on Zaslav expecting us to be upset, and that there may be a day or two of outrage, but then we'd move on. I'm sure right now he's trying to convince everyone that this is a fluke, and that it'll blow over soon. Don't let him win. Keep OFMD in the news. Be loud (but polite) and make Max and other streamers take note of what a passionate, loyal fan base this show has. Make their stocks continue to drop. Make it clear this is NOT just a fluke, it is NOT business as usual. It's a BIG fuck up with lasting consequences.
Twitter, for all its sins, is the best place to do this.
Now let's get our damned show back.
#ofmd#our flag means death#renew as a crew#truly BELIEVE ME I get wanting to stay away!!#and if after we get picked up again you want to delete your account please go ahead and do that!#but this is a really easy and tangible way to show Max/other streamers#just how beloved the show is and how it would benefit them to save it#I love tumblr but it's not going to give us the kind of impact we want#it's for fans - not for external folks/key decision makers#ANYWAY I am by NO MEANS a twitter expert but I'm getting better#and I've seen some people be nervous about getting on the platform so I thought I'd try to help <3
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HI there, hate to bother you but i was wondering if you could do the amazing digital circus head canons for a gn! reader who acts a lot like ena
if you have never heard of it you can check on the ena wiki but i would really love if you did something like this so thanks
TADC x ENA type!GN!reader
typically i would do all the characters in one post, but its starting to get late and tumblr wont let me save half answered asks in my drafts for some reason TToTT
so im gonna split the cast in half, if you want the rest of the characters you can send in a second ask so i can remember to do everyone else :0!
also my apolocheese for any personality mistakes, i think i watched ena a long time ago but was confused/didnt watch the whole thing so uh uh!! relying on a character wiki for this (on that focuses on season 1 so uh uh, idk if that will impact anything)
little bonus bonus incorporating enas color thing into this cuz uh
we can say its digital world stuff
ooo that gives me an oc idea; oc whos like the mayor from nightmare before christmas who has a spinny head/face thing that relates to their emotions
CAINE:
caines is going to be shorter because hes just your number one fan regardless of your personality, in fact he probably has a silly shirt with your face on it somewhere
will do everything in his power to make sure youre happy and content, and will do everything to cheer you up when you switch over to your sad side
takes you to wherever it is that he 'sleeps' when you get overwhelmed by stuff and keeps you there until both of you are sure that youll be okay and your blues are long gone
you and him easily match energies, sometimes he will even try to one up you with using fancy intricate words
POMNI:
writing pomnis part first but oh funny is it that pomni and ena have the same VA
anyways
absolutely loves you, but she is so so worried about stressing you out and switching to your 'sad form', tries to (often times unsuccessfully) cheer you up
honestly you both need a break, things in the circus are hectic and insane, and considering pomni just got here she is going to need your help to get used to things
not much to be said since i think pomni is another character i struggle to write
JAX:
initially teases you for how fast you switch up, its almost like gangle being more upbeat with her comedy mask and more sad when its broken
tones it down a little when you explain you cant really control it whereas gangles case is just her being more confident with the comedy mask (at least thats my hc)
sometimes give you weird looks when you use an unnecessarily long set of fancy words to describe something mundane
bro is fighting the urge to mimic it
surprisingly does the kind thing, he takes you off to the side when something stresses you out so you can have a minute to compose yourself
RAGATHA:
optimistic sweetheart meets ray of sunshine, you two are an unstoppable force of good and kind of rub off on some of the others
similar to jax when you get stressed out or upset about something, usually when its an in house adventure, she sweeps you to the side and helps calm you down. she probably knows some breathing techniques, i think
ignoring the fact they probably dont need to breathe but thats asides the poin
#tadc x reader#the amazing digital circus x reader#digital circus x reader#caine x reader#jax x reader#pomni x reader#ragatha x reader
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It will never not be frustrating to me that amputees appear in fiction ALL. THE. TIME. and yet they're almost never acknowledged as such. The Cyberpunk genre is especially guilty of this: amputees and prosthetics becoming a normalised part of life are a defining part of the genre/aesthetic and yet no one even consults with any amputees about how we get represented there. Most writers in those genres don't even consider that giving your characters cybernetic arms and legs means they're an amputee.
CW: Ableism, dehumanisation
This makes it REALLY uncomfortable to engage with stories in the genre because another common aspect of cyberpunk is the idea of losing yourself and becoming something distinctly not-human anymore because you have too many cybernetic augmentations/implants. Shadowrun even has mechanics for this, which state if you get too many prosthetics, which is what cybernetics are 9 times out of 10, your character becomes a monster. These mechanics and discussions surrounding "how many robot bits make you not human anymore" are really, really uncomfortable when you remember this isn't something that's unique to a far-off future setting. Those people you're discussing the humanity of already exist. They're called amputees. If you reframe the question as "how many amputations can you have before you stop being a person" I hope you can see why an amputee like myself is not going to feel safe around you or in your fandoms.
And it's a shame, because I REALLY want to like Cyberpunk. I really, honestly do. I love the aesthetics, I love the idea of big corporations being the villains and the anti-capitalism at the heart of the genre, and I love the idea of prosthetics being not only destigmatised, but desirable. When written from a disability-inclusive lense, it honestly has the potential to be an incredibly uplifting and empowering genre. but as the genre stands right now, it's actively hostile to the very folks who are usually the stars of its stories: amputees, all because people just refuse to acknowledge us.
Cyberpunk isn't the only genre guilty of this, it's common all throughout sci-fi as a whole, but Cyberpunk is the only one where it starts becoming a serious issue due to its rampant dehumanisation of a real group of people. In other sci-fi settings, it's just kind of annoying and while it can be a form of erasure, it's not usually harmful, just...frustrating. Fantasy does it on occasion too, think pirates with a hook and a peg leg, but nowhere near as much.
If you, as an author or creator, use any of these words to describe a character or their tech in a sci-fi setting:
cybernetics/cybernetic enhancements
bionics
robot limbs
cyborgs
augmentations
You are probably writing an amputee. Please, at the very least, acknowledge it, and be mindful that those are real people who actually exist, not just a fantasy group you can speculate about.
edit:
I originally posted this article on my old Tumblr account and lot of people commented/reblogged to tell me that originally in cyberpunk, the "less human the more robot bits you have" only applied to people who opted for their limbs to be replaced by cybernetics, because it was seen as "renting out your body to corporations for money" but people who had to get cybernetics out of necessity weren't impacted. The thing is though, I really don't think that makes it better, for a few reasons. For one, where do you draw the line at "opting" to get a cybernetic prosthetic? This isn't a black and white thing, even in real life. Most amputations are done out of necessity, but there are situations where it's not the only option, just the best one. Talking from personal experience, I lost both my legs below the knee as a baby, that was a pretty clear cut case, I had a blood infection and gangrene and they had to act fast. But the infection caused lasting side effects and impacted my physical body's development and growth. By the time I got to my early 20's it was causing a lot of pain in my right leg, in my knee specifically, and when I got a bone infection in the end of that stump, I chose to have the whole thing amputated up to the knee. They only needed to take a few inches off the end of my stump, but I asked them to go higher, because of the ongoing issues in that knee, issues that would have been made worse by the shortening of the leg. I choose to remove the whole thing, knowing the joint was degrading and I probably would have lost it later in life anyway. Even if it was salvageable, it would mean much more surgery, and I've had enough of those. A boy I played wheelchair basketball with was born with a partially formed leg, it was half the size of his other leg and he wasn't able to use it al all, it was just dead weight, so he opted to get it amputated too for convenience and so he could use a prosthetic on that side. I worked with a girl who's hand didn't form properly in the womb, resulting in a normal palm, but tiny "finger nubs" (her words) with no bones inside. They weren't actively harming her usually, but she opted to get them and the top of her palm amputated after an incident at work where we were tying balloons and one of her nubs got stuck in the knot. She decided to get them amputated because it meant accidents like that would be less likely, and she could use a prosthetic more comfortably. All 3 of these are considered "optional" amputations, so would people like us be penalised in your setting? does it make sense that the technology in your setting can tell the difference, or that corporations would care about the how and why? Even stepping away from medical grey areas, if your character opts for a cybernetic arm because the corporations will financially reward her, and she's struggling to put food on the table without that help, is that really optional?
Don't get me wrong, I do think that idea could work but it would take a lot of work to do well, and most works I've seen don't do the work. Even if they did though, it doesn't change the fact that most modern uses of this trope don't mention that bit or actively ignore it. It doesn't matter in most cyberpunk works I've seen if the amputation was optional or out of necessity, they still are more prone to being seen as "less human" and in most of the sci-fi writing communities I've been part of, the authors are genuinely shocked when I ask them to remember "people with cybernetics are real people already, they're not some far-off-distant future fantasy group, they're just called amputees". Like it didn't even cross their minds. These are the people creating the works in this genre. Even if it wasn't the original intention of the genre, it's still an issue in the modern version of it.
Edit 2:
Elaborated a little more on why I don't think the "only people who choose it" argument works in the edit. Also, please stop telling me that old cyberpunk doesn't have this issue, I literally address that in the post lol.
#Writing Disability with Cy Cyborg#id in alt text#disability#disabled#disabilities#disabled community#disability representation#cyberpunk#scifi#disability in media#writing disability#writing#writer#amputee#amputees in media#writblr#writerblr#authors of tumblr#cybernetics#cyborgs#science fiction#sci fi#science fantasy
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There seems to be some discourse lately about content, the kind of content, and the community as a whole. Now, the last thing I want to do is stir up anything, but I had some thoughts that I'd like to type out, and I appreciate whomever decides to read it.
The purpose of this band is to make us happy. You've heard it time and time again, as long as we go home at the end of that show feeling just a little better, then TF is satisfied. And it seems like lately that happiness is hard to achieve here, on twitter, or wherever else one is active.
On Headcanon
Were you sitting at work today? Home? And suddenly that thought popped into your head, a little scene playing out about Copia, or Terzo, or Secondo, or Primo. A thought that filled you with excitement, butterflies dancing in your belly, which had you smiling because yes, in the world that makes you happy, that is what they are like. That is what they do. That is what they say. It's an amazing thing and it's good and okay, and you should be excited about it. Because you just added another chapter to the amazing story in your head. And you decide to post about it, but...someone left you an anon. Someone left you a comment. Someone vague posted. And it hurt.
This is happening far too often across tumblr, and it needs to come to a close. I understand that we all have vastly different ideas of who the Papas are and how the Ministry works, but that does not give a single one of you an excuse to say anything untoward or foul to anyone else on this platform. And this isn't talking about any particular group because more often than not, posts like this are used to justify the actions of others. You do not have permission to use this to further your agenda. Be kind. Choose to ignore that fic. Choose to stay off that person's blog. Stop making posts at the expense of others just because you don't like a particular aspect of their world.
I promise you'll still be able to sleep at night.
On F! Reader and x Reader Fic
I have seen many posts since I joined tumblr to write for the Ghost fandom that express a dislike toward reader fics, and in particular f! reader fics. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd like to just reflect on my own thoughts on the matter, and once again, I appreciate the time taken to read and perhaps understand where I'm coming from, and know that it is a place of care.
I am a woman. When I write fic, I am writing it to satisfy my own little world in my head. So naturally, I am going to make the reader female, because the universal you is not only the friends I share it with or those kind enough to read, but the you is me. Every sweet word whispered, or gentle touch from a Papa is something I wish would happen to me.
I do not have the right to invade someone else's perspective. I do not understand what it is to be a gay man. I do not understand what a trans person experiences every day, and therefore, I do not feel like it is my place to write these perspectives in an x reader fic, or more so than that, in smut. And otherwise, I'm just not comfortable in doing so. I know my experience, and isn't the first step of writing, writing what you know?
I want there to be inclusivity in writing, but that doesn't start with attacking other authors for writing from their own perspective. It doesn't start with making hostile posts about reader fics, because what's the outcome? You just end up with some people very hurt and unwilling to post their stories because they think it's unwanted.
If you feel comfortable exploring these topics, talk to your mutuals. Say hey, what can I do to gain a better understanding of the content that I'm writing? What can I do to ensure that I'm not fetishizing due to my lack of knowledge? Be a community, and help each other out.
On Notes and Reblogs
A note is not the value of your writing. Whether you receive just a few or hundreds, you have impacted someone. Someone loved your story. Someone is thinking about your story all day. Someone was able to make it through because that one thing line you wrote spoke volumes to them.
We put so much of our energy into worrying about notes that the reason we started writing in the first place is lost. It becomes a chore. There are a hundred WIPs sitting in our folders because it becomes so goddamn painful just to work on one.
No one owes you a reblog. No one owes you a like. And even though it's nice, and it's gratifying to see nice comments on something you worked hard on, notes cannot be used as a currency between followers or mutuals. It just becomes a poison. Your entire tumblr experience is going to be marred by the constant worry that you aren't good enough just based on a number.
Learn to appreciate the ones who do read. Allow your story to make you feel good because there it is! That thing you've been thinking about. It's written down. You brought it to life. That is far more valuable than a tumblr note.
If you've reached this point, thank you. Everything you're feeling is good, and okay, and we're gonna get through.
Because even now? When it feels like things are more hostile than happy?
You still have Ghost. And you still have everything.
#the band ghost#the band ghost community discourse#discourse#x reader fic#f reader fic#ghost headcanons#notes and reblogs#thoughts
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Hi, Im Sorry if this isn't very coherent, I'm a little shaken up but I would appreciate any time you spend reading this.
You don't know me but you've seen me at shows before, and you have left an impact on me greater than any one else, and I want to appreciate what you've done for me because you are keeping me alive right now.
This morning I was going over what I would write in my note, who I would give what things to, and who I would want to come to the funeral when your post popped back into my head: If you're transgender you have to live. I love you.
I thought about you. I thought about how you would feel if a trans girl that looked up to you ended her life, and I broke out sobbing. I know it sounds kind of stupid that a tumblr post you made is the reason im not dead, but you're what I aspire to be and I want you to know that you saved my life with nothing but your words, even if we've only seen each other a few times and you don't know my name.
I followed you soon after I started using tumblr and at the same time your band shroud was one of my favorites, but i had no idea you were the same person until you posted pictures from a thotcrime show and I recognized you. After that post I started listening to cybergrind and got really into it. So then on top of wanting to start a hardcore band partially because of you, I want to start a cybergrind band souly because of you. You even gave me an appreciation for cars for the first time since I played gta as a kid.
You've changed who I want to be and I wish i could do more than just say how much I am grateful.
Thank you,
Some depressed trans girl
yo hey I really don't know what to say other than thank you for sharing this
I made that post the night I found out one of my best friends in the world killed hirself, it was a desperate plea i didn't really expect to make a difference so like. I'm glad it did for you
please start a band! come say hi if you end up at a show of ours sometime! send me any music you end up making. maybe someday we can play something together <3
there are already too few of us weird cool girls out there please keep holding onto anything that gives you some reason to keep going. i love you and every other trans person reading this so so much.
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minimalist self-care habits
One of the biggest misconceptions about taking care of yourself is the systematic and erroneous association of self-care with extreme consumerism. This idea conveys the image of self-care as something reserved to those who can afford it. The truth is, and many already know this, there are countless ways to be good to yourself without spending more than necessary.
☐ Get enough sleep. A child would need 10 to 12 hours of sleep per night. The average is between 7 and 9 hours for an adult. I can never say it enough, but sleep is an important part of our lives. Value it highly. It's an elementary need: not getting enough sleep puts us at risk of developing numerous chronic diseases: such as high blood pressure, diabetes, heart failure, coronary heart disease and some types of cancer. You are also more likely to suffer a stroke.
☐ Turn the volume down. Since I'm riding the wave of how we 21st century people are neglecting our health, I also want to stress the importance of auditory health. If, like me, you love to spend hours with headphones on, consider turning down the volume. I know it's much more enjoyable to experience it fully, but having gone through the terrible experience of tinnitus, I bitterly regret it. There is a simple way to track your auditory health: please check your smartphone's headphone safety features.
☐ Don't neglect your medical appointments. I have always been very anxious about it. Not to the point of pulling my hair out, but I used to postpone my appointment so much that I sometimes forgot why I even wanted to go. There are countless of reasons why we may not like to go to the doctor, but the truth is that health issues simply cannot wait. It is equally important to go see your doctor even if you think you are in perfect condition.
☐ Be physically active. Always keep in mind that your body, like your mind, needs to be stimulated. Besides allowing you to manage your weight more effectively, sport improve your brain health, reduces health risks and strengthens both your muscles and your bones.
☐ Watch your language. It's more personal, but it introduces a sense of discipline into your mind. The turns of phrase, the informal language, the way we speak, the choice of words, the syntax… Speaking is the perfect expression of the mind. This does not mean abolishing the use of crude words, but rather regaining control, becoming master of your language again. Your words should never exceed your thoughts. In my opinion, a rich language reflects the attention the speaker pays to it. When was the last time you learned a new word?
☐ Clean your space. The cleanliness of your living space has a big impact on your productivity. A messy space can lead to a messy mind. Home is, for many of us, the place we feel most comfortable: keeping your living space clean and organized naturally improves the quality of your life, your sleep and your health. Clean regularly, let the sun shine in and air out daily.
☐ Avoid ads. Easier said than done. But try not to have your mind parasitized by the multitude of advertisements we are flooded with. I don't watch television. I do have access to a music platform so I don't have to deal with the constant stream of ads on YouTube.
☐ Go for a walk. Pretending to discover your city or town anew can do wonders for a mind in need of a little distraction. Check out some of the free events that may be happening near you. Visit a park you've never been to before.
☐ Give yourself a reason to wait. Try to establish a ritual of patience. In other words… You stop binge watching every new show you start and you take your time to appreciate it.
☐ Stimulate your mind. The internet has given us more ways than ever to keep our minds busy. For those who know me a little, I am a big fan of reading. And if physical books can indeed be expensive, you can find some really good ones for free in .pdf format. In fact, some kind souls have even gone so far as to share entire drives of them on Tumblr... Going further in my reflection, I think that the scourge of our century is the intellectual lethargy: everything is at our fingertips, why bother reading a whole book when I have access to a detailed summary of only a few pages? Beyond the spiritual enrichment, it is also a proof of patience to seize a book and give it three hours of your time. I sincerely believe that as human beings, we owe it to ourselves to keep our senses and our minds alert. Reading is a great way to exercise our brain as it helps stimulate our cognitive abilities. It allows us to develop our capacity for memorization, reflection, analysis and imagination. Try coloring for adults (yes, it's a thing: ■ ■). There are also many games for adults online with the aim of stimulating memory and improving concentration (■, ■.). Try solving online puzzles, fake criminal investigations, math problems? Learn how to code (with Codecademy for example, which offers many courses for free). Take language courses. Many general knowledge quizzes are also available to anyone who is interested (■) . The web is a real goldmine in terms of resources and many are available for free.
☐ Finally, this list would be meaningless without me asking you to learn to relax. Give yourself a day off if you need to. It is essential to take it easy, to get your nose out of your planning, to look up from your screen and breathe in some fresh air through the window. I advise all those who try to relax to start a digital detox: we must learn to relax independently, without a screen and regain control over the objects of our stimulation.
My lists are intended to be personal. If you find them useful, that's great. Feel free to rewrite them! Don't hesitate to ask questions or send me your comments and ideas for next articles.
#self improvement#motivation#that girl#weight loss#evening routine#discipline#inspiration#self care#growth#positivity#studyblr#productivity#becoming that girl#becoming her#it girl#feminine#divine feminine#goal#morning routine#routine
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please hear me out. sagira comes back. and everyone comes together at the end of the story/raid to fuck up the Witness. and we get to see Osiris back to his peak as he unleashes hell with Saint
I appreciate how even tumblr agrees so much with bringing Sagira back that it sent your og ask (the one I'm answering rn) three times and your follow-up twice lmfao
But yeah if Cayde, (aka the guy whose death progressed the plot of the story more than he ever did when he was alive*) gets to come back, then I feel like Sagira should as well. I'm hesitant to think that we'll see her reuniting with Osiris- because I don't know if Osiris is gonna be in Final Shape when he was already in Lightfall- but I do really think that it's kinda a fucking shame that we never really got to see the full extent of Osiris's powers, given the fact that he was one of (if not the most) powerful Guardian who ever lived. Sure, we see his reflections and him popping a super in Curse of Osiris, but that's not even close to the shit he did in the lorebooks that I'd kill to see. And tbh, I'd love to see them reunite, reconcilliate over what happened, and then maybe have Osiris realize post-channeling her Light again that he really has found closure with losing it, sort of like driving past your childhood home and realizing that you've moved on for good. I also want Sagira herself to see that Osiris is okay, and that he's become more mellowed out (a teeny bit) now that he's living with Saint, allowed to do research on Strand, and has found fufillment in his job teaching Guardians on how to use it. They've been pair bonded for hundreds of years- thousands if you take into account the time distortion of the Infinate Forest- so it would be a massive wasted opportunity to not have Sagira as one of our guides, and for her to acknowledge how Osiris has grown without her. I think she'd be happy for him, even if the road to get there was hard and bittersweet.
As for the idea of bringing her back for good- it's kind of a mixed bag? I don't think that Cayde is gonna be undeaded at the end of Final Shape, so it probably wouldn't be the same for Sagira, and the arguments that people have about it undoing the whole purpose of their deaths certainly can apply there. (I also think that if Sagira was to ever be returned, it should be via the Young Wolf, Ikora, and Saint teaming up with the Sundial to do it once Mercury was returned, rather than through the Traveler itself.) But on the other hand, I think that Sagira differs slightly from Cayde in that bringing her back doesn't really undermine the impact that her absense had. For one, Cayde's death was a very fitting character beat for him; he always had a sad streak, buried grief from all he'd lost, so death wasn't something that was too jarring or terrible for him because he had lost loved ones presumably waiting for him on the other side (ex: his line 'I'm coming home, Ace'). It was also a fitting death, going out in a blaze of guns and glory, which I suspect is how he expected to die for a good long while- maybe even wanted. And his death was also a catalyst for a long chain of very undoable things to happen, the most prominent being the rise of Crow, and how he was shaped by Cayde's legacy. There is no going back from Cayde's death because of the sheer SIZE of the ripples it made.
(Personally, I think that Cayde being a ghost stuck in the Traveler Dimension doesn't exactly negate this at all, because if he's stuck in the dimension of what once-was in the Traveler, that still means Crow is needed to take his place as Hunter Vanguard- and there's a lot of potential there for Crow to meet him, come to peace with what Uldren did, and to gain the tutoring he needs in order to rise to that position. Cayde can pass on the mantle, endorse Crow to Ikora and Zavala so they don't feel guilty at giving his position to his once-murderer, and then his prescence in FS would be that last nick of closure needed to put him to rest. Which I think that he not only needs, but also wants.)
Sagira's death, on the other hand, was extremely in-character...and also extremely abrupt, and way more focused to a singular character- Osiris. It felt right that someone as stubborn and fiery and fiercely protective would have sacrificed herself to save him, and it was what allowed Savathun to posess him, but in terms of the death and the more widespread impact? Her death was abrupt, and the damage done by Savathun was reversable. Osiris himself was the one who suffered the most from her death (and Saint too, by virtue of being close to Osiris), but I'd argue that her death and its relation to him was less an earthquake chaining into a tsunami and closer to what Mara felt when Uldren died and was revived as Crow- a slap of cold water to the face. Osiris was stubborn, arrogant, entirely determined to save the whole universe by himself- and then his own actions lead to Sagira needing to sacrifice herself to save him, and he was suddenly forced to sit the fuck down and confront the sheer impossibility of his situation. He's mortal now. He's mortal, and he's vulnerable, and is now reliant on other people- so much so that it was Saint and Misraaks who saved his life, and barely. Before, he could just steamroll past all his limits and concerns- and he did- but now there are no second chances, and finally can see what that arrogance and high standards cost him. Sagira dying forced him not only to slow down, but also that he is no longer alone, and can rely on those he loves to solve the problems he used to try to take on by himself-problems far too big for only one man. It taught him how to process grief, and how to appreciate life instead of being so focused on the future that everything sped him by. And it taught him that not only was he no longer the exiled heretic warlock who did everything alone because he HAD to, but that he had a purpose beyond being a Guardian, and people other than Saint who valued and trusted him- people that he could trust in return.
Her death was the harshest lesson he'd ever been taught. Her death changed him. And that isn't something that can be undone, even if she returns and he becomes a full Lightbearer again. Truely, if she returns, it wouldn't have been for naught, because now Osiris has seen what happens when he Icarus dashes flies too close to the sun. It would just be an upgrade to the Osiris we have now, and might even soften him up further. Maybe. From super-hardass to hardass to medium-hardass, I suppose.
(And I really wanna see Ghost and her reunite, aaa. AND I want to see her meet Glint!! Just imagine the teasing that could happen if she met Glint)
Besides- Sagira is the ghost of the Phoenix. It would be fitting for her to return, and to potentially rise again. It wouldn't make sense for any ghost, but it would with her.
*Before anyone gets the wrong idea, I'm adding on a side note here that I don't think Cayde's prescence in Destiny pre-Forsaken was worthless, because it wasn't. He was a very beloved side character, and he did have his place in helping along other major storybeats, but it was BECAUSE he was the hypeman on the sides that his death became a major plot progressor. All that buildup of him being a steady constant was what cumulated in him dying being such a big bang. Sagira did the same, but the impact of her death was focused on Osiris rather than the Young Wolf
#destiny 2#osiris#sagira#osiris destiny#anon#reply#like dont get me wrong i do like relevant chsracter death#(for all i joke about athrys coming back i still think it would be better if shes dead)#but for sagira i think the storybeat would work
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Work, Bitch
This year, BL is trying to grow up and explore what dating looks like once you're outside of school. In this episode, we pit former collaborators Cheewin and New against each other with their pretty much opposite takes on workplace romance.
Ben and NiNi talk Bed Friend and A Boss and A Babe.
"Now get to work, bitch!"
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Timestamps
The timestamps will now correspond to chapters on Spotify for easier navigation.
0:00 - Welcome
1:16 - Intro & Trigger Warnings
2:50 - Bed Friend
41:28 - A Boss and a Babe
1:26:09 - Cheewin vs. New
The Conversation: Now With Transcripts!
We received an accessibility request to include transcripts for the podcast. We are working with @ginnymoonbeam on providing the transcripts and @lurkingshan as an editor and proofreader.
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0:00 - Welcome
Nini
Hello, hello! Your QL fandom aunty and uncle are here with giant sunglasses, brown liquor in a flask, a folded five-dollar bill to slip into your hand when no one is looking, lukewarm takes, occasional rides on the discourse, deep dives into artistry and the industry.
Ben
Lots of simping! I’m Ben.
Nini
I’m Nini.
Ben
And this is The Conversation. About once a season, we plan to swan in and shoot the shit on faves, flops, and trends that we’ve been noticing in the BL, GL, or QL Industry. Between seasons, you can find us typing way too many words on Tumblr.
1:16 - Intro & Trigger Warnings
Ben
And we're back! Office romance is shaping up to be the trend of the year, with more shows this spring vying to put their stamp on the subgenre. In this episode, we pit former collaborators Cheewin and New against each other, with their… pretty much opposite takes on workplace romance. Nini and I are discussing Bed Friend and A Boss and a Babe.
Nini
Two more different shows I think you could not find. We've got Cheewin versus New, they worked together on Make it Right and Love Sick, they have… diverged? And they have fallen into two very different categories, I think, as auteurs, so this should be interesting. So let's get to it.
Ben
As with every episode this season, we recorded our reactions months ago — or a week ago — and we'll be back at the end to give you our final thoughts and wrap up our feelings on the entirety of this whole workplace nonsense. So: get to work bitch!
Nini
For this episode we wanted to put in a trigger warning, because we will be talking about Bed Friend, and that's going to include discussions of physical, emotional, and sexual abuse. So… we just wanted to give y'all a heads up about that — we will put the timestamps in the show description.
2:50 - Bed Friend
Nini
Let's start with Bed Friend. Ben, what is Bed Friend about?
Ben
Bed Friend is a workplace romance involving a friends with benefits dynamic that places a known player, King, in pursuit of the office hottie, Uea. What starts off as just kind of a, kind of sexy thing where Uea’s like, ‘I'm too pretty for you and I don't deal with playboys,’ becomes this really earnest exploration about how lingering trauma can impact your ability to form meaningful relationships with other people, and about how you can create really healthy boundaries with someone in a way that prevents you from actually helping them the way they need to be sometimes. What started off as a show that was advertised to us as just the sexy friends with benefits show ends up being the sexy ‘love can heal all wounds’ show.
Nini
I don't know if it's fair to call it ‘love can heal all wounds,’ I think one of the things that I like most about Bed Friend is that it's clear that love is not what's healing Uea — it's what's driving him to heal himself, I guess? But love in and of itself is not healing. And…dick is not magical, as you are so fond of saying.
Ben
That is true! That is one of the most important things to get from this.
Nini
Yeah, and I like that Bed Friend does not treat dick like it's magical. Uea’s having a great time, King is having a great time, Uea is learning things about himself, and he’s willing to do things that…maybe he never thought he could do before. But King is not fixing him, and I like that. He is fixing himself. He is saving himself: it’s one of my favorite things about this show.
Ben
This was a really unexpected show for me — I was afraid that this was going to be kind of a porn without plot story at first? I was not expecting Uea’s reticence with King to have… a decently grounded basis, and then for some of his other romantic and sexual hangups to be really well grounded. ‘Cause sometimes when they use trauma in these stories, it feels a little pat, like they want to make sure that they have these bits in here so they don't get accused of just writing a boring show? But I think all of Uea's trauma is handled well.
I guess we should drop our trigger warning here for the Bed Friend discussion? We will be discussing the plot and themes that happen in it in its entirety. So this will involve physical, emotional abuse of a child, sexual abuse and assault of a young person and a child, as well as workplace sexual assault by a superior, and other intimate partner violence from an ex — so this is going to get a little bit difficult if those topics are difficult for you. These are interwoven into the core nature of the plot and the way the characters are understood, so it's going to be hard for us to talk around it.
Nini
Yeah, and I don't think we should talk around it, because I think one of the things that Bed Friend wanted to do is that it did want to explore some of that trauma in a healing way? But in order to heal, you have to… go through. It's a difficult watch in a lot of ways. But I understand why they felt they needed to show what they did. A lot of takes that I've seen talk about, that it was trauma porn, or that it's not realistic that somebody would be traumatized so many times in so many ways, and I'm here to tell you, as sad as it is, it's not unrealistic at all? People who are… looking for victims find people who have been already victimized.
Ben
Right, and predators are good at finding weaknesses in the security net around their target. So…one of the moments that stands out to me is with Uea’s ex — I don't remember what his name is, but fuck that guy. Everyone had been hanging around Uea because they knew that this guy was gonna start some stuff, like he shows up and tries to accost Uea during the day. Jade is the only smart person ever in BL, because he calls the building security to come snatch the dude. But like, they know he's going to show up later — everybody asks Uea the right things, like ‘should we file a report, do we need to get a restraining order for this guy?’ Uea’s like ‘no, his dad's a politician, don't worry about it.’
But then later, Uea ends up having to stay late at work because — Mongkol ain’t doing shit, so Uea and Jade are carrying too much work. And he catches Uea in a vulnerable moment when he thinks no one else is around. That's the kind of shit that happens to folks, is they're being stalked by these awful people, who know, like the one brief period where the people who are trying to look out for you blinked, or looked away. And let me tell you, James is very good, because it's been weeks since that scene, and I am still haunted by his voice as Uea calls for help in that moment. That is probably one of the most affecting scenes, from a trauma perspective, that I've ever experienced from Thai dramas—and, period. I am still haunted by James's voice.
Nini
This show took everything that happened to Uea incredibly seriously. That, to me, was one of the really good things about it, because the show wanted to say ‘Look: we want to talk about this and we don't want to talk about this in a shallow way. We want to talk about this in a real way. We want to talk about this in a way that might be helpful to people. We want to talk about this in a way that might be healing to people.’ And I think, because of that, the show took it incredibly seriously.
So, while the show technically—and, ah, when I say technically, from a technical standpoint, in terms of the techniques of filmmaking—it is not the greatest, I really respect the show, because it, I think, mostly accomplished what it set out to do. And what it set out to do, as well, felt worthy to me. I can't really ding this show. I can ding it on editing, I can ding it on sound. There was one full effect that had me cracking up towards the end…but in terms of ‘if it accomplished what it set out to do, and if what it set out to do mattered,’ I think that Bed Friend ticks those boxes.
Ben
She's also dinging it for overuse of the OST.
Nini
I don't even want to get started.
Ben
[laughs] She’s texting me every week, y’all! Like ‘I hate this song!’
Nini
So much! And then worse than the song punching through every moment that is supposed to be like, very romantic and everything, they sub the lyrics of the song. So not only is it punching through aurally, I have to look at what they're saying, and it's so on the nose, because the line they always come in on is ‘I want to be more than a friend’ or some shit like that? And I'm just like ‘ahhh this again!’
Technically, from a filmmaking perspective, this show is not great. There are like a couple of moments in the direction that are interesting? But from a technical standpoint the show is not great. Acting wise: Net and James together? Whenever they're in a scene together they're present, they're there, they make it real. When they're acting outside of that, it's a little wibbly sometimes. James is generally pretty good? All the things that he has to convey he conveys. Net is also… pretty good, James is slightly better than Net. All the things that need to be conveyed they convey. But, when they're working together is probably some of the best work that they do in the show.
Ben
You can tell that these two have been working together for a long time, and that they're very close, and that there's a lot of trust between them. But I agree with you, I think there's a lot of…early Thai BL tendencies in this, and I don't want to be rude to Cheewin on this because, that's my boy, but…everybody feels really stiff sometimes, the blocking is so limited sometimes, like nobody really gets to move around much.
Nini
The blocking’s kind of stiff, like they hold on moments that don't really make sense to hold on, it feels in some ways theatrical sometimes? In a way that doesn't always work on screen because it feels—you're right, stilted. This is part of Cheewin’s style, and it works sometimes, like it worked great in Secret Crush On You, it does not work here so much. But I don't feel like it detracts from the story.
Ben
It doesn't. Like we talk about pulps and like, prestige stuff, and like GMMTV kind of always sits…closer to the prestige end of that spectrum? Like this is probably like two notches below that.
Nini
Yeah. It's like…reaching for a prestige story, with pulp filmmaking techniques.
Ben
Yes. It's in about the same place that I think You’re My Sky sits, in terms of production stuff. Like where they wanted to be good, they were very good. Like they used a lot of their best efforts on the action of the bedroom scenes, whereas You’re My Sky used it on its sports scenes. Which is appropriate because You’re My Sky is a sports show, and this is a friends with benefits story. I feel like that comparison works for me because You’re My Sky is punching way above its weight, in terms of what it’s trying to do.
Nini
I don't know that, in terms of production quality, that Bed Friend sits about the same place—I think it's maybe slightly lower than that in terms of production quality? Mostly because of the…color and the sound. You’re My Sky has way better color and sound.
Ben
That's true. So you're the more romance oriented of the two of us. I think you should unpack the arc of their romance? Before we maybe unpack it more specifically.
Nini
When they do these high heat, more explicit BLs I always like to see how they're utilizing sex scenes and how they're utilizing sex to tell the story. Using sex in a romantic story is always really interesting to me. I've written about this with Kinnporsche and Cutie Pie and now here: I think it's really important that every time we see them have sex, it's a different flavor, something different is happening with them emotionally. Something has changed between them, or something is different between them? And so you can track the actual progress of the emotional relationship through the sexual relationship, which I find is really interesting.
So, King and Uea start this relationship—King has always had a little bit of a thing for Uea and Uea won't give him the time of day because Uea thinks he's a player. Part of that as well is that Uea is…basically catnip: Uea is very, very pretty. He gets a lot of attention—at work, outside of work—and he is just not interested in all these players, and he has put King in that box. They go out for some work thing, and Uea gets stonking drunk. King takes him back to his place, and Uea kind of hangs on to King and…they have sex. There's no other way to describe what happens [laughs], they have raunchy drunk sex.
Ben
I think what happens for King and Uea is: Uea was exhausted by his own life, and he uses… sex to cope with that in those moments? And he knew King wanted him, so he just chose King at that moment. King reacts to it by being embarrassed by it. Despite the questionable nature of their first encounter, that's not what King wants their dynamic to be.
Nini
There’s a lot of speculation that King was in love with Uea from the beginning—I don't necessarily believe that? I think that he has always been interested in Uea, that he is intrigued by Uea, he is definitely attracted to Uea. I don't think that he, at the beginning of this all, that he's already in love with Uea and that he sees this as his chance, which is the conventional wisdom on what happened there. That doesn't feel…correct for me somehow.
King's philosophy on love and sex is that he…enjoys sex, he doesn't see a reason to deny himself sex, he's always honest with his partners about what it is. He's never been in love, but he knows that when he does fall in love that he will be faithful. He's not going to be a player when he's in love.
Uea doesn't believe that. Uea has all these…rules, that come from his trauma, like when he was growing up, when he realized he was gay and he was starting to be interested in boys, his mom called him a slut, she called him all kinds of things, locked him in a bathroom.
Ben
Inflicting a permanent fear of the dark on the poor boy.
Nini
Yeah, so he feels like, if he is more sexually free and open then he's exactly what his mother always said he was. It is part of his entire architecture of himself, that sex is something to be indulged in in a relationship. It is not something that you just go out and do, you have to be in love to have sex otherwise you're a slut, like…he's internalized those messages from his mother.
So his philosophy of love and sex is entirely different from King’s. And how they even get on the same page, how they even get to the point where they could agree to start this friends with benefits relationship is because Uea has let the wall down and King is like ‘okay, you have let the wall down, I'm just going to put it out there and ask for what I want, and let's see what happens’ and Uea is at the point he's just like, ‘you know? Why the fuck not. If I'm gonna be a slut then I'll be that.’ That's where Uea starts.
King's happy to get into this because he thinks, ‘okay well, Uea doesn’t like me, he is never gonna have feelings for me, I'm not going to end up in a situation where I'm with somebody who's going to start clinging to me, that's fine, I can just have really good sex. I already know that we can have good sex because we had good sex, this is gonna be fun and interesting, I’m attracted to this dude, why not?’
Uea’s thing is — he falls in love too easily, because he has to equate love and sex in his mind. When he has sex with somebody, he has to end up in a relationship with them, and that hasn't been working out for him, because all these dudes, they just want to bang him and leave. Or they want to bang him and victimize him, or…all these other things. So his conceptions of sex and love are warped. He falls in love too easily, whereas King does not let himself fall in love.
So the way that they end up together is that they create this this relationship, but there are all these rules. The most important rule I think is Uea saying, ‘okay we'll sleep together, but: if you're sleeping with me, you can't be sleeping with anybody else.’ So that fulfills Uea’s need to not feel like a slut, while still being sexually free. King’s like, ‘the sex is good, I…don't necessarily need to go somewhere else if I'm getting it here. This is fine.’ He accepts the rule, and because he accepts the rule, they can't behave like they would normally behave? Because I get the feeling that King gets bored? And he can't get bored, because if he gets bored, it's gonna be the end of the thing with him and Uea. Uea isn't going to just fall in love with him, because in his head it’s like, ‘oh this is only sex. It's fine.’ So they can't behave the way that they would normally behave in relationships? And it means that they have to be real with each other, in a strange kind of way. And that's where it starts, and that's where it develops from And that took me so long to get out.
Ben
I think what works really well for me, and why I got it for Uea, was he and King have an ill-advised encounter, something I generally enjoy in BL because—I know gay people! It's messy. King doesn't let Uea blow him off, and makes sure that they go and get tested. And that immediately starts to…I don’t want to say demystify, but it doesn't make it this whole thing. King is like, ‘yeah we had a great time, but we probably shouldn’t have done it that way. So that we can both feel okay moving forward, we should do this step.’ and it becomes a little after-school-special-y, but I really like the way it's incorporated into, ‘sex is normal, Uea, we can—we have to do these things so we can move forward.’
Nini
Yeah I did like that, I like the way that King treated that so matter of factly, and because he treated it so matter of factly Uea had to treat it matter of factly as well, like he couldn't be…afraid of it, I guess? King treating it so matter of factly made it feel okay. It made it feel normal. It made it feel like something that he could do. It made it feel, ‘okay, all right, maybe he's not a total irresponsible human being’ kind of thing? So it starts the softening. I agree it does start the softening towards King.
Ben
I like how as they get closer to each other, the complications from Uea’s trauma come up in a way that doesn't immediately get explained to King. And I like that King…asks up to a line. He knew, kind of, what was going on with Pock—he did not know what was going on with Uea’s family for a long time, and it's the fact that King doesn't push, and respects these rules, that kind of gets them into trouble at some point? Because King gets just a little bit jealous and thinks that Uea maybe wanted Krit's attention? And says some nasty things to Uea, because he's not sure how serious Uea is, because Uea’s always playing aloof with him.
Nini
I like that King knows where the boundaries are, and he knows when he has crossed one, and he pulls back? I also like that he makes mistakes in doing that. So many commenters, so many people, have labeled King “green flag,” and I have real problems with the green flag label, as applied to people or characters, as opposed to actions or behaviors. And one of the reasons that I have a problem with that label applied to people and characters is some of what the commentary was around, for example King, having that fight with Uea about Krit, who is his boss who is harassing him. Everybody’s like ‘well. why would he do that, he should know better’ and the thing is that no, he's human, he doesn't know what's happening. He's having these negative feelings, he's jealous. He's never been jealous before, because he hasn't cared about anybody in the way that he cares about Uea. He's in this weird place where he feels like he knows Uea, but there's clearly stuff that Uea isn't telling him, that is feeding into his insecurity. He likes Uea, he wants to be with Uea, Uea isn't giving him anything to go on, and he is almost afraid to ask?
So he’s… having these negative emotions, and he's expressing them in a negative way, which is so human, but it just becomes a thing like, ‘oh, red flag red flag’ I'm like no, he's not—people are not green flags, behaviors are green flags. And some people are going to deal with a situation in the right way, and deal with another situation in the wrong way, and then realize that they've maybe dealt with that situation in the wrong way and correct themselves, which is what King did.
But like the whole green flag discourse, I don't like it, it just makes me uncomfortable.
Ben
I'm going to beg all of you to let go of Calvinism when you watch these shows. You have to let go of predeterminationism when you're trying to deal with real people. People do things: they are not the things they do. It's really really unhealthy to project so much onto these characters. This need for them to be an idealized version of the person you either want, or want to be. It's… not good? You have to appreciate that people are complicated, and like yes, it's fiction, but one thing about fiction versus reality is that fiction has to make sense for us to enjoy it?
Our lives don't always…but it is not unreasonable for King, a character we know has fallen desperately in love with Uea, to be frustrated that Uea doesn't seem to be acknowledging the feelings that King is expressing, within the confines of the box Uea put them in. That's an ugly moment, and King is wrong, and he knows he's wrong. But I feel like a lot of people got hung up on this moment, and they couldn't reconcile the version of King that's really kind and gentle with Uea and understanding with Uea and patient with Uea, with the version of King that gets frustrated about how maybe sometimes Uea doesn't always appreciate that.
Nini
We talk a lot on this show about how we are always refreshed when characters are allowed to be wrong. And this is another instance where I was glad that they let that sit the way that it was, that King was wrong. And King was shown to be wrong, and he had to go and apologize and make up for it, because he was wrong. And then because he was sincere in his apology and his making up for it, they were able to move past it. It's not that it suddenly becomes right, or that King is suddenly an awful person or whatever it is. But it's the fact of the process: I had an ugly outburst that came from an insecure place. I knew it was wrong when I was saying it, but it came out anyway.
Ben
And here's how I'd like to make up for it: first, I got that motherfucker fired! [laughs]
Nini
In the grand scheme of the plot of the show, it ended up for most people being a blip—and that's the other thing I don't like about the green flag label, because it's something that happened, and should be, like, acknowledged to have happened and discussed to have happened. But because people like the King character and think that the King character is a good person, they gloss over it. So you have two reactions to it, either people get really into the idea of it and ‘oh my god why did they do that,’ and ‘they ruined the character,’ or they get into ‘I'm just going to pretend this never happened,’ and neither of those is a great way of dealing with it. [laughs]
Ben
I really just despise that kind of —
Nini
Yeah I, I don't, I don't like that.
Ben
But we should talk about character motivations, and the ways they express their motivations, and how the character's motivations and the actions they take in the story contribute to the overall narrative that's being told here, and the kind of ideas that the show is asking us to play with as a result. And it's so frustrating when we have to go “This character is a good person, this character is a bad person.” I don't like the finality of the tone when people say that sometimes.
Like even with Krit, and whatever Uea’s stepdad's name is. Krit was making vile choices, but like it's important to remember that he's consistently making the choice to do that, like, he's not out of control of himself. He's not a monster in the sense of, ‘he is this antagonistic force that's acting on Uea and other members of the plot.’ He's a person in power who's used to getting what he wants and abusing it horribly, and choosing to do it consistently, not only to Uea but other staff members as well.
Nini
This is the thing where you label characters villains — to me I've always said villainy is cruelty. So the fact that he's consistently and continually making the choice to behave the way that he does and he's never apologetic about it. That, I think, would cross him into the line of villainy. But I'm acknowledging that this is a character…engaging in actions. The actions are negative, but it's the consistency of the negative actions and the unapologeticness for the negative actions, which are what cross over into villainy.
Ben
I really liked Net and James's overall chemistry in this show. Like what works so well about them is, because sex is such a big deal in this show, there's a moment really early on, around episode 3 or 4 I believe? When Uea’s had a particularly difficult day on his…sister's birthday I think, and he goes back home, has a terrible encounter with the stepdad.
Nini
It's his birthday, actually.
Ben
Ah, eww! [sighs] He goes to King's place, and while King is excited to get one of their three sessions in a week—as part of their rules—ah, he senses something is wrong, right away. And he dials back the encounter, encourages Uea to take a bath and relax and calm down, and then brings him a cake to celebrate his birthday. And that was one of those moments where things felt like they started to turn for me, because they didn't exactly have sex right away that time. And that felt just as significant as the sex that they were having.
Nini
I did like that scene because Uea comes in basically hot and sweaty, hell bent for leather. He comes in that door and he's ready. He's feeling bad, he wants to feel good, so he basically attacks King [laughs] as he comes through the door and King is like, ‘not that I don't like this, but are you okay?’ which is huge.
Ben
And then Uea admits that he isn't.
Nini
And then Uea admits that he's not okay, so it's huge on both their sides. It's on the one side, Uea is seeing that King actually cares about him as a person, in turn Uea feels now more open to admit something internal or deep in himself. He is not okay. And then King takes care of him not being okay, and then King does something for him that he couldn't have possibly known was going to touch him in the way that it touched him. But because King is being thoughtful in that moment, it ends up being exactly the thing that Uea needs, because he could not have known about the birthday cake trauma that Uea has.
Basically Uea has never had a birthday cake. He celebrated his birthdays by himself, with a candle on an empty plate, and King could not have known that getting Uea a birthday cake would be one of the most thoughtful, amazing things that he could have done for him. But it is. And Uea, he’s so—you can see it on his face, it's some of the best acting that James did, and James did a lot of good acting. The way that he looks at King when King brings him that cake? It's awe. There's no other word to describe it. It's absolute awe.
Ben
It was really good. There's been a couple of times where I really like the way James as Uea looked at King. When he brings out the cat ears—great acting by Net in that scene, because Net plays King as extremely aroused with anticipation about this, and also a little bit nervous? And the way James responds as Uea, where Uea sinks into like his kind of aloof thing of mild annoyance, as he sees the cat ears after handing the glass off? Absolutely fantastic.
Nini
But the way the moment turns when he looks at King, and he sees that actually, King's nervous about this. Because this is a very vulnerable thing, to open yourself up to share a kink with somebody. You don't know how they're going to react to it, it's an incredibly vulnerable thing. And so he sees that King is being vulnerable with him in this moment, and he's almost holding his breath?
Ben
While panting? While panting heavily? [laughs]
Nini
Somehow at the same time holding his breath and breathing more heavy, I don't know how he's doing both at the same time, but he's accomplishing it, right? But basically Uea sees that King's really nervous about this and he's like, ‘Okay, he is being open and vulnerable, I am willing to do this.’ That was a major turning point in their relationship. Kink became a major turning point in their relationship—the fact that King asked for it, the fact that Uea saw what King asking for it meant, and the fact that Uea responded to King asking for it with a, ‘I will do this for you. And I will enjoy this.’ And then they did enjoy it!
Ben
It's maybe me, but it's implied that I think they switched that night too.
Nini
It is heavily implied. Of course they never exactly say what they're doing. You know there's always a lot of hand wave around the sex in these shows, even when they're pretty explicit, but it's heavily implied, that yes. That the vulnerability extends beyond the kink itself into other kinds of vulnerability within the sex.
Ben
They were so giddy the next day at work—that really sells that scene, too. The followup of them being kind of like—embarrassed is the wrong term, but like they were giddy with each other.
Nini
Giddy is the exact right word. They're not embarrassed, they feel aglow. It's very clear that something shifted between them that night? Their relationship feels different the day after that. And there is a moment where they're at the office, and they're kind of smiling at each other and King like calls Uea on the phone so he can, you know, have the conversation with him. And he asks him to go away with him, and he nearly says ‘I love you’ on that phone call. I think I understand what reasons that he holds back from doing it, I think at that point he's ready to do it but he wants to do it in a really romantic way? So he holds back from it. But… at that point, like if he had said that to Uea, and if he had asked Uea at that point, ‘will you be my boyfriend?’ Uea would have said yes.
Ben
I think that's the biggest thing with King is, he gets in his head a little bit? And I think every time he wants to say it to Uea, he thinks Uea will reject him or scoff at him. And so he doesn't say it.
Nini
But I don't think that's what that was in that moment, I think he held back in that moment because he wanted to make it a bigger deal. He didn't just want to say it on the phone at the office. Because I don't think in that moment that he thinks that Uea will reject him. In other moments, definitely, but not in that moment.
Ben
I don't know. It's one of those moments where I just wish he really would have said it then? Because it would have saved us all a lot of trouble.
Nini
[laughs] Oh boy, but then the show would have also been shorter.
Ben
Speaking of which! I like how the last two additional episodes give us the chance to see Uea coming down from the high state of tension he's existed in for a long time. Like seeing the stepdad go to jail, and seeing Krit no longer at their workplace, having the boss say, ‘this horrible thing happened to you, we're going to pay for treatment to help you manage this long-term.’ Getting used to his regimen with his medicine. Being open with King about that. And then being able to enjoy a version of his life where all of the people who hurt him the most have been removed from the equation.
Nini
People called the last two episodes unnecessary and fluff; I don't subscribe to that, I think that they were very important, especially episode 9. Episode 10’s a little fluffy, but episode 9, I really think that that was all really necessary stuff. If for nothing else, for the fact that Uea gets to go to therapy. That the therapist or the psychiatrist has prescribed him medication, that he is open about it, that he is now in a place where he can tell King the things that have happened to him? And that King reacts to them in the way that he reacts to them—he's very focused on Uea, and the fact that Uea’s sharing this with him means something to him, and he's not going to retraumatize Uea by making Uea’s shit about him.
Bottom line is, I think Bed Friend was absolutely worth it. It is a lot of triggers, a lot of trauma, I wouldn't necessarily recommend it because of that? But once you give all the necessary trigger warnings and everything, and it's something that you feel like you can handle, I would recommend watching it. I gave it a 9 because the editing was on crack and ayahuasca, I swear to god.
Ben
I gave it a 9, I don't think the workplace stuff was used consistently. I felt like they had to consistently go back to be like ‘oh right, this is a workplace show, we need to do something at the office.’
Nini
The workplace stuff wasn't integrated well, and it's a real shame because the workplace story is so crucial to the rest of the story? And I just find that it wasn't integrated well at all, and then they had those two weird characters, and they used them as comic relief that didn't quite work? Bed Friend’s a 9, it is a ‘recommend with warnings’ show.
Ben
I think the warnings are necessary but not because I think they're handled poorly? You just shouldn't be blindsided by them as they come into play.
Nini
And the show does blindside you with them, to be fair. If you're not prepared for it, they seem to come out of the blue. But that's also part of what the show is trying to do, it's trying to show you that you can't tell. So I, I appreciate the show using it like that. But at the same time, nobody should be blindsided like that.
Ben
I liked it, sincerely.
Nini
Yeah, I think it's a good show.
41:28 A Boss and a Babe
Nini
The second of our workplace BLs that we're going to talk about this season is A Boss and a Babe. Ben, what is A Boss and a Babe about?
Ben
A Boss and a Babe is about this character named Cher who is a new intern at a fairly small-ish gaming company. While there he ends up befriending the CEO of this company and getting deep into this guy's sad gay feelings. The two of them develop a consensual workplace relationship that everyone frowns at. A lot of different things happened, but eventually the two of them make it and are on a marriage track now. Kind of a hot mess of a description but, but it's a hot mess of a show. [laughs]
Nini
That was surprisingly concise for you, I was about to say.
Ben
There's a lot to unpack! But it's a mess!
Nini
I think we're in agreement that this show had problems. [both laugh] But—but—we still had enjoyment from this show, I think. Let's start with what we liked. What did you like about the show?
Ben
I like the cast. Force in particular is very good at expressing fondness with just his face. I also really enjoyed Book getting to play a manic pixie dream boy in this one, because he has just such an ethereal quality because of how bright his skin is, and…the way like, light reflects off of him? But if you use, like, a softer lens he tends to glow. And so, because he seems a little unreal when you just stare at him sometimes, it was really good to make him an almost hyper-real character? And he plays high energy actually really well.
I actually liked Mike in this, I'm not always a fan of Mike? I thought Mike played Jack really well, overall. I can't remember the name of the actress who plays Oi right now, but she's so funny. [laughs] Like, you can see the cast struggling to hold themselves together with her around, I thought that that was a real delight.
I liked the way the show looked overall? Because New, despite all the things we're gonna say about him later in this episode. He's very good about using money effectively, and this show was consistently decent to look at. Speaking of decent to look at, Thor looked great in this show? My goodness. It was nice to see Thor in a glow-up after playing such a sad sack in The Warp Effect.
Nini
I also like the cast. I think that everybody was playing at a fairly high level. I enjoyed the work that they were doing, I enjoyed the interplay between the cast—because this is a cast that had a lot of interaction, and I like the way that the cast dynamics worked out, whether it was Gun and Cher, whether it was Cher and Jack, whether it was the gamers, whether it was the workplace gang. Whatever configuration it ended up being, the energy and the interaction between the members of the cast in every permutation was really good.
I actually enjoyed the core story. I like the idea of a sad misunderstood dude, who, everybody thinks that he's grumpy and terrible, but he's really just sad and awkward—him coming out of his shell because somebody just pays attention to him and is kind? I like that central conceit. I like the idea of you know, being kind to somebody as an initial outpouring rather than in reaction to something? I like that Cher just looks at this sad guy, and is just like ‘No!’ [laughs] and it just goes from there.
I like how self-aware all of the characters are. As much as…there's like a screwball energy going on, and you know there's a lot of ‘who's on first’ and weird dizziness, all of the characters are really self-aware. They interrogate their thoughts. They come to conclusions about themselves that are mostly correct. They have big blind spots, yes, but the way that it works is that they can't see something about themselves, but somebody else who's in their circle can see it and can tell them about it, and they're close enough and open enough that they can listen? In the early parts of the show, it's a lot about perception and how people make up stories in their head about people that turn out to not be true?
Ben
That works really well.
Nini
That works really well in the beginning half of the show, I think. I like Force and Book, I like Gun and Cher as characters. The thing of this story is, this is an incredibly inappropriate workplace relationship [laughs]. This is a CEO and an intern! In any sense, this is incredibly inappropriate, but you still have to want to root for them, and you do, from the beginning. Mostly because Cher doesn't give a fuck about this job.
Ben
That’s actually something you and I talked about around episode 2 or 3, we're like, this dynamic would not work if Cher gave a single shit about this job.
Nini
He does not, and that's exactly why it works. It's just like, ‘I'm just here to get a signature on a piece of paper and then I'm out, going on to live my life, so whatever happens here is just bonus.” And part of the bonus is you got yourself a boyfriend, well done!
I like all of this, I like the character development, particularly for the central characters, so for Cher and for Gun. That's really the only characters that do get developed, and that's one of the things that we're going to talk about when we talk about what we didn't like.
Anything else that you really liked about it?
Ben
I liked how queer a lot of the dynamics felt. I liked that Gun felt like he was begrudgingly still best friends with his ex, because that [laughs] is super real in queer circles, because there's just not a lot of us who we can rely upon, so like, it isn't always easy to just be like ‘I'm over this person!’ and then you sort your friends and just move on.
I liked the way Cher came into his own…sexuality. I like that Cher was stunted a bit by the uncomfortable histories that had defined his first really big love? And I really liked the way Three and Zo were used in this show. I liked that even though they're kind of an overly sappy kind of obnoxious BL couple, they're presented as an ideal that a lonely gay man hopes that he can have someday. And we got to see Fluke be like a goofy gay dude again! With a newbie who clearly was having a bunch of fun palling around on set.
Nini
I love Zo as a character. Zo is the youngest of the characters but he's definitely the mom friend.
Ben
I actually liked the gaming stuff, too. I played a specific video game, at a very high level for a very long time, and so I get the amount of practice and determination in the way you get heated about stuff. Like when Three has that huge angry blow-up and storms off, I'm like, I've been that captain. And they were playing for real money, and they did win real money. And as we know some of these characters genuinely needed that money, so there was quite a bit on the line for them.
Nini
But you see here's the thing about this now, and we're, I guess, starting to delve into the parts of the show that I didn't really like. This stuff is happening mostly in the background, which is fine, like this stuff doesn't necessarily have to be foregrounded. But all of these emotions and all the things that go along with it, they're not given thematic heft in the story, and that's a complaint I have about some of the secondary plot points, and towards the end, even some of the primary plot points in the story.
So, what didn't work for me? I don't know if I can talk about what didn't work for me without cussing New out, and I want to get like a good stretch of time to cuss New out. [both laugh]
Ben
Alright, so I guess I'll talk about some things that I really struggled with. I think the primary frustration I have with A Boss and a Babe is the problem I have with a lot of pulps. It feels like there are three or more pitches, that were haphazardly consolidated into a single script. Like, clearly they wanted New to do a workplace show. But someone else around them really wanted to do a show about gamers. And so they compromised by doing the gamer story as part of the friend group, and they made the workplace a game development studio. Okay.
But the problem is that, like with so many of his scripts, I just don't think New cares about all of the things that he has to execute in the project? Like he always cares about the gay ideas, like—like Gun is a lonely gay man who is lonely because everybody intentionally misunderstands him and makes up stories about him? The sheer presence of constant homophobia, and the surveillance of being a rich dude who, anytime he does anything apparently makes the fucking papers is…like, totally palpable. And Cher responding to everyone in the village he grew up with thinking that he's the reason that his best friend, who he loved, died—is horrible! And I totally see him responding to that by projecting this aura of positivity and confidence as a way to cope. And like these ideas play out really well early on, but they don't really know what to do with the follow-through for that.
And then on the other end of the weirdness with that is…the reality of what happens to Tian is not given the kind of focus and respect that I think it needs to in the story. And like, as always with this, like there are a lot of ideas I like. Like Thoop not really knowing how to deal with the fact that he is financially reliant on Cher, but not able to tell Cher about what happened because of a sense of loyalty? And then being mad at Cher for moving on from Tian, because he's carrying around a whole secret about Tian. He's being loyal to her memory. So Cher is not going to be loyal to her? Because he wants to go mess around with this dude?
Like, I get it after the fact, but with so much of New’s stuff, I feel like I'm discovering the emotion of why I cared about this after it's resolved, not while it's building. That's the problem with A Boss and a Babe, is I'm constructing a functional narrative after the fact. And then there are bits that he uses that he just discarded. Like, Gun has huge feelings about the fact that he fell out with Thyme, and they have a couple of really ugly fights in the show that I thought were actually really well executed. But then, even after it's revealed that Thyme didn't really do anything wrong, there's not really any closure there for the audience on that particular plotline? And I'm like, why was Drake even in this show?
Nini
I feel like I have a very strong sense of who every one of the characters is, and what motivates them, what their goals are, what some of their dreams are, I feel like I have a very strong sense of who these characters are. And that's partially the writing and partially the acting, which is how you want it to be. But I feel like the story writing is at best inconsistent and at worst pretty weak. And I feel like that's New all over. I want to get to a point where we can really have the New discussion but I don't want to like, supersede the show discussion with the New discussion, even though they are related.
Ben
The question really is like what is A Boss and a Babe about? And it… is about too many different things. Like it doesn't really plant its feet anywhere. And that's what's really frustrating. Like, I can't really sum up the show, say, ‘this show is about a sad lonely gay man and the manic pixie dream boy that showed up at his job and fixed his life.’ Because like sure, that's kind of what happened, but it’s also not…it's difficult.
Like there were a lot of complaints about the character writing being inconsistent in the show, and it isn't, it's the plotting that's inconsistent. They don't know what they want to put these characters through. There's this whole reveal about like the mole plot that's underpinning a big part of the season, and we thought that it made most sense for Jack to be the mole, and for there to be some sort of complicated history between Jack and Thyme. And I feel like that was definitely in the script at some point, and got yanked late, which is why Drake doesn't appear in the final episode.
Nini
You've given like one conception of what the show is about, which is Gun’s perspective. But if you flip it and look at it from like Cher’s perspective, the show is about a kid, who’s had a rough go of it, but decided to put on a brave face and tough it out, learning that he doesn't have to do that all the time? And being able to actually lean on somebody. Because even with his friends, like, Cher puts on this happy face, and it's only as time goes on, and he starts interacting with Gun and those walls start coming down, that he's even more open with his friends about certain things. That's another conception of what the story's about.
Again, like you said, there are all these different conceptions of what this story’s about, but there isn't a definitive, ‘this is what the story is’ kind of idea. Even in the plots that should integrate but don't: Gun owns, Jack works at, and Cher is interning at a game development company; Cher and Jack and their friends are on a gaming team. And those things don't interact at all.
Ben
I thought there was going to be more about the digital age stuff, with the fact that Cher runs an ASMR channel, and that is just sort of like a throwaway to establish that Gun was maybe already curious about Cher, for other reasons?
Nini
And then they tie that back to like, what Cher and Tian wanted to do before everything went to shit, which was that they wanted to get into that whole like…digital content space, and then that just falls away?
Ben
What we have arrived at is, this is a script that could have done with maybe three more months of cooking.
Nini
It's not even just the amount of time. It's that [sigh] New—I'm sorry I'm just gonna have to go for it. Okay—
Ben
Go for it, sweetie!
Nini
New Fucking Siwaj, man, like. I feel like New always does this to me. Now, Ben is a big fan of New Siwaj. I don't know that I would call myself a fan of New Siwaj, but I will say that New Siwaj to me is a very interesting auteur. And the reason that New Siwaj is an interesting auteur to me is that he has really solid ideas. I feel like…the things that he wants to talk about are things that need to be talked about, and the way that he conceives of them, and the way that he thinks about them, I think is really interesting, but.
I want New to go to the gym. Do an upper body workout. So that he can carry his ideas further than he does. Because I don't know if his arms are weak, I don't know what it is, he just can't carry his ideas forward. He gets distracted by shiny things, he gets bored I think with some of his ideas like halfway through… You know what it is? It's that meme of drawing the horse, where the front end of the horse is like really detailed and like…
Ben
[laughs] And then he ran out of time.
Nini
…very well done, and then the back end of the horse is a stick drawing? That's how I feel about New Siwaj. I feel like he starts out with all the best intentions and he actually has really good ideas, and the things that he wants to talk about are interesting things that I would like to see portrayed in media and portrayed in these stories that he wants to tell. I feel like he then, once he has started doing it, he just wakes up one morning he goes “Eh” [laughs]
And that's like it and then he’s just, like, phoning it in until the end—like that's how it feels, like all his work feels like that to me. And this is, to me, classic New Siwaj. Classic classic classic New Siwaj stuff. Because all the stuff that he normally wants to talk about? It's all here. New loves a sad gay.
Ben
That's why he's my favorite.
Nini
New loves a love interest sort of barrelling in. New loves a supportive friend group. New loves a ‘figuring out and then discovering your sexuality’ story, where you're supported without being outed, where your friends are like ‘well we know, but until you tell us we don't know nothing.’ Like these are all hallmarks of New, if you look at all New Siwaj’s work, if you look at Love By Chance if you look at Until We Meet Again, if you look at My Only 12%—if you look at these things, A Boss and a Babe is very obviously a New Siwaj show. It fits in with all the themes that New Siwaj enjoys like exploring in his shows.
And just as well as that, it is plagued by all the New Siwaj problems. He absolutely needs to collaborate because New on his own, he has great ideas but his execution is so spotty. New is great at a scene. Scene work? He's one of the masters. When I look at specific scenes, and then a number of those specific scenes, the scenes that he was really interested in getting right? And how he constructed them, and how he directed them, like I see the talent. But then, he puts those scenes together haphazardly, whether it's in an episode or an arc or in the entire story. It doesn't flow the right way. He can't construct, to me, anything longer than a scene. And then, I feel like he doesn't storyboard, so plot threads like, they come up and they go down and they disappear and they reappear and there's no throughline to a lot of the things. He loves third act left field bullshit which—why? Why, after I have gone through this story, we are now in the third act and something is coming that never was never a part of the discussion, suddenly coming in and taking over the whole story.
I want to love New Siwaj's work. Because New Siwaj has good, interesting ideas. When he is actually interested in seeing those ideas through? He can do really well, and then also when he's collaborating with other people on his ideas? It works really well, because they temper the worst of his bullshit. But when it's just New playing in a sandbox by himself, it feels very dilettante. Sometimes he just feels like a bored rich kid.
It's so upsetting! I want to shake him! I want to be like ‘Sir! Snap the fuck out of it, you can do this!’ [laughs] ‘You can do this, you just need to focus.’
Ben
I don't think it's about, like him needing to focus more or work harder. He feels like the usual issue that really talented and gifted people have? Of being so used to being able to do so much on their own, they don't know how to work with other people? Or ask for help at the things that they're maybe not that strong at. I don't know that he's a great collaborator because…since Make It Right, it's basically just been him doing his own thing. And I would really just like to see New either as a producer guiding a team, or working with people that he saw at his level, and being forced to cooperate with them more.
Because you're correct, like, he starts strong but he doesn't finish strong. And that's what we'd love to see from his work for once. We usually love his work on the front end of some of the big ideas that are being constructed. Then we get to the back end and we're like oh my god what the hell is going on here? Episodic structure is incredibly important. Individual episodes have their own internal arcs that make those episodes distinct in the overall narrative. And A Boss and a Babe has none of that. Cannot tell you what happened on A Boss and a Babe episode by episode. One of the things that Nini and I are usually pretty good at is highlighting specific moments where they fit in the story. Nini tends to remember them by episode exactly. And we just don't have that with A Boss and a Babe, at all, like…we could not tell you when moments in this show happened.
Nini
One of the things that came up in the clown server when we were yelling at each other about the show is how…disarranged it feels? Even the things that we're mad about, like we’ve come to the conclusion that you could have kept all of the elements in the particular plotline—if you had just arranged them differently, the whole thing works better?
Where things happen in the narrative is equally as important, maybe more important than what happens in the narrative. And part of the problem is that where things happen in the narrative is just screwed, and that's a storyboarding issue. In the pre-production phase, and in the post-production phase, I would love for there to be somebody sitting next to New who just says ‘no.’ Somebody who can just overrule him [laughs] on certain things about structure and organization? Because I think structure and organization are his real weaknesses in terms of his filmmaking. I don't think he lacks for ideas. I don't think he's untalented at the actual process of production? His shows always look good, they always sound good, the camera work, the scene work, it's always good. But the story's just…eugh! Need somebody to just yank them together. I would love to just recut this entire show.
Ben
The biggest thing for me is like, Jack needs to be the mole. And he and Thyme need to have been exes. Because the problem is, in a show about workplace romance, the side couple is used for gay things, not workplace things. Like Three and Zo are lovely, and I think Fluke and new baby Ohm are cute and have a good time, but they only work well for the romance between Gun and Cher. They don't really work well for the…questionable romance of doing something at work. And that's the part that's been really frustrating.
The show is particularly irritating because…it's not great? I don't know that it's like, bad. Like, we've had worse shows.
Nini
I don't think it's a bad show.
Ben
But like, this show brought out some real frustration with me with fandom itself, in a way that I usually ignore, but I found myself super duper irritated about along the way. Some of the things I get frustrated about is people using the tools of criticism inappropriately, just to say they don't like something. Like you don't have to pathologize not liking something, rather than just saying it's not for you. Like, this show’s kind of a goofy mess, and…the character work is solid, but it never seems to be working with whatever the plotting is going on. There’s an easy way to say yeah, this show's just not that great.
But the problem that happened for me with this show was, one of the big ideas in the show that they tried to hold on to for at least the first 3 or 4 episodes, was that people are going to perceive you a certain way, regardless of what you do or say. Like as soon as they look at you and go ‘you're gay,’ they're going to start using slurs for you in their head, and it doesn't matter…what you do or say at that point. They've decided who you are. There was a great moment in like the first episode where Cher cuts down these catty girls at work for being homophobic about Gun. And there's the whole notion about the way Cher’s village is wrong about him.
And it was frustrating for me in a show that's being very loud about how people are not who we see them as in the brief bits we get about them—a fairly adult thing to maybe look at? And it was super frustrating to see the characters in the show just get reduced to like, ‘if Gun's a grumpy mean boss, why do we never see it?’ Like that's maybe the point. Maybe he's not a grumpy mean boss, and people are misunderstanding him and reading into minor interactions with him way too hard. And the same thing with Cher. Like, ‘why is Cher perfect?’ He's not perfect. He just doesn't acknowledge his own failure, and doesn't care about when he fails. It was genuinely really upsetting to see this done to, like explicitly queer characters?
Because for me, it begs the question of: when do you love gay people? Do you only love us when we're funny? When we're bright, shiny and chrome? When we're entertaining? When we're sexy? What if we're not in a good mood, and we don't want to be sunshine for you today? And it feels like a lot of that got leveled against Gun’s character in a way that I personally took offense with. He wasn't an ideal gay, and so we have to dislike him, or pick apart his characterization—and it was the same for Cher. That he got stunted, in his sexuality, by everything that went wrong with Tian—which I think should have been like pulled out way sooner—and so he's discovering his queerness slowly and not really wanting to take a huge leap on that.
I just feel like both of these characters were not given a lot of grace. It's not the first time I feel like fandom has really struggled with complicated gay characters. And it's becoming a sticking point for me and is making me kind of sore, in some of the interactions we have around here.
Nini
I too am always annoyed by misuse of the tools of critique and criticism, because I am a person for whom words mean things? [laughs] And so, when you say things like ‘the writing's bad.’ I'm like okay well, you're saying that the writing's bad. So like tell me, okay, what are the markers of bad? Is it inconsistent? Show me where it's inconsistent. Is it this thing? Show me where it's this thing.
I can always accept, ‘yeah I just didn't like it.’ I mean I'm not saying I'm not going to judge you, [laughs] but I can accept ‘I just didn't like it, wasn't for me.’ Okay fine! I cannot accept, ‘because I didn't like it, it must be bad.’ I do not like that, I've never liked that, because to me it just feels intellectually dishonest? It feels intellectually dishonest to look at something that perhaps you don't like, or more often that you don't understand, and to say ‘because I don't like it, it must be bad.’ We don't really talk a lot about fandom on this show, but I think, around A Boss and a Babe, like, it got to me?
I'm an adult, people's opinions are their opinions, I try not to let people's opinions piss me off, but I got quite pissed off. [laughs]
Ben
Generally I think people are allowed to be wrong on the internet. And I usually try to just be like, whatever, someone's just being wrong on the internet. It was frustrating for me this time because, there are messy parts of this show, but one of the clear ideas is that Gun is a gay man and the world has made him feel lonely. And it was so upsetting to see fandom be just so mean to him. I don't usually be like, ‘oh no leave my blorbo alone,’ like, I'm rarely that person. This is like, the first time that's really happening to me, I was like, ‘why are we being so harsh to a character who's just enamored with the manic pixie dream boy who thinks he's a little too severe and is determined to make sure he has a good day?’ When’s the last time someone cared if Gun had a good day?
The takes felt really unkind. And I did not like that at all. Is this how you feel about the rest of us? I don't get to interact with a lot of other boys in fandom all the time, but goddamn y'all! Is this how you feel about gay people? Shit!
Nini
It felt reductive, and I don't like taking a character where the complexity is there, and reducing that character to some kind of archetype in your head, because this is what you feel like you were promised.
Ben
The show makes a whole point about how people are gonna actively misperceive you. And like, we were so close to getting it. They're like, ‘the show keeps saying that he's a mean bad boss but I don't see it’ and I'm like ‘you're so close, come on. Come on! You got this.’
[both laugh]
Nini
I think that there's one choice that was made that, if that choice had gone differently, I think it would have rammed home the theme better? And that would have been, if they had actually followed through on the Thyme thing. Because the thing that was coming through to me in the writing, and I think you and I talked about this—Thyme felt righteous, which made us think that we're going to see that he was also being misperceived? And that just sort of fell away.
Ben
That's another real disappointment. It's why like I gave the show a 7. Like it's very watchable, and I think the characters are amusing enough, and the work is fine, but like—not completing the Thyme storyline, losing the thread about how perception impacts you—and like you said, like, we had a team of gamers and a gaming company. And not a single crossover really felt like it happened between that? Feels like a huge missed opportunity.
Nini
I think it was episode 8 or 9 when I think things started to go off the rails.
Ben
It was when they had like the whole, like, Cher’s not talking to me, I'm gonna go talk to him right now. I'm like ‘oh I like that,’ and then he pulls Cher into the bathroom and they have a reconciliation, and then they get outed and they're like ‘oh no, new problem!’ and then like, ‘my mom is here now, she solved it!’ Wait: what? How? Who did she kill? [laughs]
And then…and [laughs] and then they're like ‘okay so I guess we're done with that, all right, I'm going to break up with him now.’ Wait—wait a minute!
Nini
Around episode 9 is when the shit started, basically. But up until then, I felt like I had a clear sense of the narrative, I felt like I understood what the show wanted to say, I felt like the directions they were going in made sense. And I feel almost like the rug got pulled at that point. There's still stuff in those later episodes, mostly the stuff between Gun and Cher—when it's not being yanked around for narrative purposes—there's still stuff in there that feels really legit and emotionally honest. Like in the later episodes, I think 10, 11, and 12, Gun and Cher’s, like, physical and emotional relationship?
Aside from all the, like I said, narrative yanking around, it felt really grounded, really solid, like every time I saw them in a scene together I felt connected to it. And I understood where it was going. And then in between those, like all kinds of weird decisions got made.
[both laugh]
Ben
Speaking of like, good scenes with Cher and Gun. The scene that I think I liked the most from them—was again like, when we talk about New is good at a scene, like this is a scene he's been wanting to do for a long time—it was Cher taking initiative in bed, where they have like married sex?
Nini
That was such a good scene.
Ben
And there was a really great delivery of—what's the line? It's like, ‘Is it okay if I start it?’
Nini
Gun is like, “You're starting it?” and Cher is like “Can I?”
Ben
Yes! And like, that was such a layered line. It was…really fascinating, to see them negotiating what sex was going to mean for them. And there's a great delivery later, where Gun in his afterglow is being especially affectionate with Cher, and Cher’s like ‘you always say that whenever we're doing it’ and he's like ‘and I mean it when we're not doing it too.’
And that's again, a line that I really loved, of New trying to hammer home that—like sex as intimacy does not mean that it's only about that particular component. He's got a lot of deep ideas about the way gay sex is perceived, and how that impacts the real intimacy going on in people's lived relationships, that I was like, ‘I'm really into this’ but as always with New, like I'm really into the ideas he has about being a gay man, because he and I are about the same age. So like, everything he's thinking about I'm also thinking about.
Nini
The way that New interprets sex and intimacy—he uses sex within intimacy, not intimacy within sex? Watching Gun and Cher be physically intimate. It's not hot? But it feels very loving. It feels very married, it feels very settled, it feels very much like coming home in a way? It feels like the characters are really having a great time. Even though, I'm not in that great time exactly with them, if you know what I mean? Like I look at it like, ‘awww!’ I look on fondly. It's like, y'all really love each other and y'all are having so much fun. But it's not hot.
Aside from like the lived-in-ness and the lovingness of the intimacy between Gun and Cher, one of the things I really enjoy is just looking at Cher’s journey with his sexuality and with his comfort with physical intimacy. Because he does go along a journey that I think is very well depicted in the show. The first time they kiss it's incredibly awkward, because nobody intended to kiss anybody. It just kind of became like a dare, and a dare, and a dare, and then they did it and then he was just like ‘oh! do I…like this?’ And then the next time you see them be intimate in any way he's like ‘I think I like this.’ And then the next time there is a sense of, ‘I definitely like this’ and the last time you see them it's like, ‘yeah, gimme that body.’ It's a very interesting way to map the progression of Cher's comfort in himself, and also the progression of time. Because that's another problem I have with this show, is that I cannot measure the passage of time in any way in the show. It's horrendous.
Ben
Gun is being really patient in a way that I thought was really endearing, like you could feel the gay age gap there. They're not that different in age, but Gun has known himself longer, and you can see him giving Cher the time and space he needs to sort where he falls out on this. Like there's that moment when he kisses Cher in bed—he asks if he can kiss Cher and they kiss—and he asks if he can do more. And that is really sweet; there's a balancing line there. Guns like ‘I'm not a sexless dude, there's a lot of things I want to do with you, but I'm excited to see what you want to do too.’ And I just really liked the way that unfolds.
Like sometimes when they do sexual awakening in movies and shit, they put a lot of emphasis on that single encounter, and this becomes like this huge movement for them. I like that Cher needed to try gay intimacy multiple times to sort himself out. Because it was also his first encounter period, so he's also working through, what does sex feel like for him? And I wish we'd have spent more time on that.
Nini
I feel like I am good with what we got, because I feel like it got the point across? Yes, more would have been good, but I don't feel like I was missing anything.
Ben
I get you.
Nini
I feel like I understood where they were going with that and it landed well. I understood the point of it, I felt the progression, and I enjoyed it. I also like the way that Gun played it as well. In the early episodes one of the things that I really like, is that Gun gives Cher this space to unpack all the feelings that he had about Tian. He not only listens, but he also offers Cher the comfort of saying, ‘you loved her, she loved you, you were good for her.’
So much of BL there's that idea that, when you find your great love, none of your other loves mattered. And one of the things I really like about this show is that it says well no, your other loves did matter, they do matter. Not because they ended, did they cease to matter or never really mattered. They mattered to you, they shaped you, they were important to you. And I like that, not only that the show invests in that idea, but that the characters invest in that idea as well.
Ben
I liked early on that Gun was explicitly touch-repulsed.
Nini
I don't think he was! I think he said that, but I—again, one of those things. I don't think he actually was.
Ben
But like, it's a gay thing. He actually does enjoy touching quite a bit, but impacted by homophobia where you have to pass. And so you don't want people touching you, particularly boys. It never ends well. You end up touch-starved as a result, because you never touch anyone. But you tell people you don't want to be touched, because it prevents you from having uncomfortable moments with people that you just don't feel like managing.
That's probably when I first fell in love with Gun. Because I was like oh, baby boy, come on now. [laughs]
Nini
I fell in love with Cher from the beginning. He is so fierce, from the beginning, about saying to Gun: ‘I am not repulsed by you. I care about you.’ This is somebody that he doesn't really know. The kindness in the way that Cher lives his life—because everybody has been so unkind to him—the radical kindness that he's expending in his life. He's reaching out to the CEO of his company just because he seems sad, and he's like ‘you don't have to be sad with me, it's okay, I like you, even if nobody else does.’ There's something about that that really touches some of the deepest parts of me. I had a very visceral, very emotional reaction to that, and that's when I like really fell in love with Cher.
Ben
It's really frustrating with this show, because there is some really interesting stuff established on the front end. I'm like ‘really excited to see where some of this goes!’ and it didn't go anywhere that we thought was really enjoyable or cogent. And there were a lot of messy bits. But man like, Cher and Gun, Three and Zo, Tub, Jack, Oi…even Thyme, and Porsche? There were really, really great established characters.
Like we've talked on this podcast before about how, when a show ends I can't remember the name of the leads. But I have a strong recall of the names of these characters, because I think they had really distinct voices that I thought played well with each other. That is a strong point about this show.
The big thing that I think is a big part of the discussion now: A Boss and a Babe kind of used their workplace setting as backdrop, not really as a dramatic tool for generating scenarios for drama? What do we actually want from workplace BL?
1:26:09 - Cheewin vs. New
Nini
All right, Ben, so now we've talked about Bed Friend, and we've talked about A Boss and a Babe and we had a lot to say about New when we talked about A Boss and a Babe, but we didn't talk so much about Cheewin when we were talking about Bed Friend.
So let's give the people a little insight into Cheewin. How would you describe Cheewin's work?
Ben
Man…[sighs] Like I keep getting caught up in how Cheewin and New very much have really strong feelings about the same stuff. I think Cheewin leans more into being like, a chaos gay than New does? Cheewin also seems to care a lot about including femmes. He loves his femmes. And he seems to enjoy comedy I think, a lot more than New does. New really loves big cry your heart out dramas. That's probably the biggest divergence that I've noticed with them.
Like I think Bed Friend's a little bit different for me with Cheewin, because it's far more s—like, seriously toned than I'm used to seeing him stick with the whole time? He doesn't undercut any of his dramatic tension with a lot of goofy comedy.
Nini
I don't know necessarily that you could say that he doesn't, because I think some of the parts of Bed Friend that we noted sort of stuck out like a sore thumb were when Cheewin tried to do comedy. Cheewin seems to tend more towards a comedic bent; New loves a sad gay. [Ben laughs]
The other direction I think in which they've diverged has been in terms of their approaches to…sex and heat? Cheewin's work is very high heat stuff, most of the time, and New is the exact opposite. The way that New uses sex is very different from the way that Cheewin uses sex to tell stories.
Ben
I would agree, I think New is a little bit more precious about it than Cheewin is? [laughs] To put it mildly. But I think Cheewin…uses sex really well in the work. Like it's fascinating just seeing the two of them after all of these years, like I was not expecting both of them to release workplace set shows in the same year, so that we could sit here and compare them?
I think in both cases, like you can see some of the things that they both fall into, like—I don't necessarily know that they both cared about their workplace the whole time? Like, the workplace served as a starting point to tell a bunch of their stuff. But then it becomes about the other stuff, and the workplace stuff falls away. Other than the plotline with the manager with Uea, the workplace of Bed Friend mostly serves as an impetus to make the characters interact in public, in front of other people. And we talked at length about how A Boss and a Babe does not necessarily maximize the potential of its workplace setting.
Nini
I would argue that both shows cared to some extent about their workplace setting, because there were plot lines that happened that could have only happened in the workplace setting. But Cheewin’s show focuses on peers, co-workers. Same age, same level of responsibility, nobody's above another. Whereas, I don't feel like New necessarily wanted to explore a power dynamic, because he demolishes any power dynamic between Cher and Gun fairly quickly. I don't really have a sense of why New went for the boss/employee.
Ben
I think New wanted a reason for them to be a bit careful about how they handled those sort of things? But I gotta be honest, in terms of doing workplace storytelling, I kind of like when there isn't like a huge gap separating the people from each other? And so we can focus more on why these two particular people either like or don't like each other right out of the gate? I thought that that was a lot more interesting to play with, like I liked that Uea was resistant to King because he thought King was unreliable and a player.
Nini
There's so much to compare in terms of the stories, and granted these are both adaptations from novels, so these are not original stories. But there have been some changes made to the novels’ stories by these auteurs. And I look to the changes to see where the auteurs might have wanted to say certain things, or what parts of the story they bring to the surface, versus the parts of the story that they leave in the background or they jettison.
It’s really interesting for me that Bed Friend is a more or less faithful retelling of the Bed Friend story. There are one or two changes, but Bed Friend more or less is a largely faithful adaptation of its novel. I have not read the Boss and a Babe novel, but from what I gather, more changes were made to that than Cheewin made to Bed Friend.
Ben
I think because Cheewin was dealing with a story about a survivor, he may have felt more of a sense of duty to not making too many changes to that? To not undercut or erase what the original character went through.
Nini
That makes a lot of sense.
Overall, I just find it so fascinating — these two guys worked together on Love Sick and Make it Right, then went in completely different directions. And I kind of want to see what they do next, if they're going to find themselves somehow aligning again, or if they're going to now completely diverge.
Ben
It's really fascinating just thinking about these two, because they start off in the school room where a lot of early BL is, and now both of them are very much pushing their work beyond those settings. Like you can feel them growing up inside of their work as well.
Both of these guys are very good, working on the drama within the romance. Like these guys still have incredibly potent ideas about how the formative experiences that queer men go through have lasting impacts on them. And that's been fascinating to see them continuing to do even as they get older. Like neither of those guys have lost that, and that continues to be the things that I notice the most in their work.
Nini
That is going to wrap us up on Work, Bitch! Our workplace romance episode. All right! We out. Say bye to the people, Ben.
Ben
Peace!
#bed friend#a boss and a babe#lgbtq#podcast#thai bl#the conversation#ben and nini's conversations#on art#season 3#summer 2023#summer series#new siwaj#cheewin tanamin#Spotify
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Everything with an 8 or a 2, plus 50 😊
2. what's your favourite colour?
Purple!
8. would you rather watch a rom-com or a drama?
Depends on my mood, but I typically choose Rom-Com's. Though, honestly, (old lady thought coming on in 3...2...1...)I feel like they don't make rom-com's like they used to in the 2000's. There used to be like 2-3 a year. The last romcom I can remember seeing is Isn't it Romantic in 2019. But I did love that one!
12. i'm giving you a plane ticket, where are you going?
My husband and I have been looking into a trip to Germany, so I'm going to go with that.
18. cotton candy or ice cream?
Ice cream. I just had some the other night from our local shop that was vanilla ice cream with reeces peanut butter cups and pretzals mixed in...😳 sooo good!
20. biggest pet peeves?
Right now, people who choose to consume Fanfiction without interacting is the first thing coming to mind.
21. describe your style/aesthetic
Well, I work from home, so it's mostly sweats or yoga pants or pjs lol. But when I'm going out, I like casual but stylish. Dark wash jeans, blazers, nice tops. In the fall/winter I love pairing outfits with a scarf. In the spring/summer I like flowy tops. Idk that I really have any kind of 'set style'
22. what's your favourite thing about yourself?
My ability to perserve. When the cards are stacked against me and I'm in a shitty situation, I never just give in. I find a way to make things better and work my way to something better.
Also, my ability to find and surround myself with genuinely good people. I like to think I'm a very good judge of character.
23. what's your favourite day of the week and why?
Well, it used to be Friday's, but now it's Tuesday's. Tuesday's are Rookie days and we all get on her and go crazy together and I smile because it's the closest I'm going to ever get to us being in a living room together hanging out and watching our favorite show together.
24. morning or night person?
Night person. I have never been and never will be an early riser.
25. tea or coffee?
Coffee in the morning, tea at night.
26. you can only read one book for the rest of your life. what book is it?
Hmmm...I'm Glad My Mom Died by Jeanette McCurdy because it was so damn impactful.
27. you're stuck in a lift with your favourite tumblr account who is it?
Listen, it's a tie right now between @sisterofficerlucychen because we could entertain each other for hours and @queseraone because you'd make friendship bracelets, and we could talk Taylor Swift for hours.
28. do you have any siblings?
1 sister. I always wished I had more!
29. what's your biggest fear?
Dying, and the uncertainty of not knowing what's on the other side.
32. what is your comfort movie/tv show?
Aside from The Rookie, The Golden Girls. I used to watch it on Lifetime with my grandmother when I was growing up. I've seen every episode hundreds of times, and I still laugh like it's the first❤️
38. what is favourite gemstone?
Sapphire, such a stunning color!
42. favourite flavour of ice cream?
The aforementioned ice cream earlier in the post. But I also like Strawberry, Cheesecake, and Cookies and Cream.
48. what's your favourite fruit?
Mangos and Peaches
50. nothing. i just wanted to say that ily. ♡
😭😭 I love you too, you're the best, and I always smile when I see your handle on my page!
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Hi Grey, sorry if I'm bothering you. This is not a writing request or anything, just some rants. Still, I will be truly grateful if you read them.
To be honest, I feel pathetic writing you this, but I just need someone to vent to, or else I’ll go insane for real, as I've been depressed and restless ever since the last release of JJK, and you’re probably the person who understands closely to how I feel right now. After all, you actually are the person who made me fall deeper for this character.
So, let me take you back to the start.
I was bored. Until one day, I stumbled upon JJK on Netflix and ended up binge-watching all of the episodes in SS1 in one go. Since I don’t have much time to catch up on the manga from the beginning, I usually read spoilers on sites anonymously and somehow found your page despite not owning a Tumblr account. (I started reading manga from the episode where Satoru got out of the seal.)
Yes, I was indeed fond of Satoru before reading your works. However, I became obsessed with the version of Satoru you beautifully portrayed in the Kaleidoscope Series. I even got a baby fever. Me, the one who hates kids, pledged to myself that this bloodline would end with me.
In addition, the more I read, the more I became infatuated with him.
I told my bestie who also writes fanfic about how I love Satoru from your lenses. She told me that I should tell you this, as it would make a writer happy to know how much her stories have impacted me. That’s another justification for how I decided to write you this.
The happiness didn’t last long. As I said earlier, ever since the last episode, it has been like a world fell apart. I cried myself to sleep every night, and I felt stupid for doing so. Like, I shouldn’t let a fictional character have this control over me, but I just couldn’t help it. I was down to the point where I signed up for a Tumblr account to tell you this.
In case you’re still here, thank you for reading my nonsense. I feel a bit better after letting it all out. Also, I didn’t request any topic because I’d love anything you write from the Kaleidoscope Series.
Ps. I’m shy, so I’ll just send this message anonymously.
- 🩵🩷
Hi dearest one, this would never be a bother and I couldn't be more grateful that you took such efforts to reach out to me, thank you so much, I appreciate it more than you can imagine!
Please don't feel pathetic, okay? Your emotions are totally justifiable and I too feel the same frustration over the recent chapters. And even if Satoru is a fictional character, it doesn't make the feelings and emotions we experienced from him shallow, because for better or for worse we did love him and it is natural to feel devastated if you lose someone you love, regardless of whatever or whoever he/she is.
Kaleidoscope Series was made out of the idea "to soothe" and "comfort and rest" and I never have ever imagined that this little corner would grow enough to reach a lot of you. I am very grateful of how you have come to love KSeries, so much I want to hug you and give comfort after all that's happening in the manga.
Please do tell your friend thank you so much and, yes, it does mean the world to receive this kind of message, I am grateful and I couldn't emphasize enough how I appreciate this gesture from you!
Please feel a little better knowing what you're feeling is not insignificant, and I can relate how sad it is to lose someone you love. It's okay to cry, and even if Satoru may be "dead", he will be fine, you too will be fine. Time always do its work. He died in a way he saw fit, and he had fun...
This thought may not lessen the pain of his passing, but it does soothe us that he died with one less regret... And that is enough for him, he too has been standing up for himself far too long, he deserves rest.
Don't worry I am in my delulu world where Y/n is pregnant with their third babies. My commitment lies not on Gege 🫠🫣
Don't be too shy, I really don't bite~😆
—Grey,
#[grey talks: hi lovely person]#fanon exist because we aren't satisfied with canon#don't be shy I don't bite fufufufufuf#[grey talks: ✒️☕]
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Hey! In your recent post about Noè and asexuality, you mentioned there being more evidence displaying that Vanitas finds Noè attractive than vice versa. As soon as I read it, I found myself agreeing but when I stopped to think about it I couldn't recall a panel that really suggests that, off the top of my head. This also isn't a view I have seen a lot of other vnc fans talk about so I'd really appreciate if you could expand on it / unpack it a bit more. Anyway, love your blog!
[Image Description: An anonymous tumblr ask. It reads: "Hi! I have just recently found your Tumblr blog and have been loving all your analyses. I only found out about the vnc manga a few months ago and some of your posts have been so useful in explaining some deeper themes/subtext that I was confused about. I was reading your ace Noé post and saw that you mentioned that there is more canon evidence that supports Vanitas finding Noé attractive than the other way around. I was hoping you could expand on this?" End ID.]
First of all, thank you both so much for your kind words! It makes me so genuinely happy to hear that y'all like what I post.
And for anyone curious, here's the ace Noé post that both anons mention.
Now as for your question, that's kind of a difficult one. I said that there's more evidence for Vanitas being attracted to Noé than vice versa (in terms of traditional physical attraction, not blood stuff), and I do stand by that. However, Noé has shown pretty much no physical attraction to Vanitas in non-blood contexts, and more than zero doesn't necessarily mean a lot. This whole post is going to be tiny details and subtext, because "Vanitas is attracted to Noé" is definitely not a major or certain thing.
That said, I do think you can make an argument for the idea.
For starters, let's go with the classic Vanoé bait panel: Vanitas's reaction to Noé's excitement over Paris.
Vanitas is at his most performative in the early chapters of VnC, and though he does sometimes act borderline flirtatious (like when he gets up in Noé's personal space to poke him in the chest), I'm not inclined to give those moments actual weight. It's all too much a part of Vanitas's act to be good evidence for real feelings of attraction.
However, in this particular scene, that argument doesn't hold. Vanitas will play up his flirty persona in order to change the subject when he gets uncomfortable, but there's no reason for him to do that here. There's no need for him to change the subject, and Noé's not paying him any attention. His expression here is just his genuine reaction, not part of a performance made to influence Noé, and it's such a fond reaction!
Vanitas has only just met Noé, but here he is so softly entertained by Noé's glee. It speaks to an immediate draw to and enjoyment of Noé on Vanitas's part, and that doesn't have to mean romantic attraction, but it certainly fits well with that argument. Noé is extremely cute here, and Vanitas likes that about him. Make of that what you will.
Even more than that scene, though I think the most explicit moment of Vanitas's attraction is one of his reactions in the bell tower.
In the middle of Noé's speech to Vanitas in chapter 11, he smiles at him properly for the first time. This is also when we the audience first see Noé smile for the outside of a flashback, so you know that that moment is important both for Noé and to Mochijun. And it also makes quite an impact on Vanitas.
Noé tells Vanitas that he wants to stick with him and see out his "salvation" mission, and then there's an extra beat, a panel for just Noé's smile, and only then do we see Vanitas's reaction to all this.
He's so struck! Noé has a huge effect on Vanitas in this moment, even before he's finished his whole speech. His words have a big part of it, of course they do, but the way the page is paced (with an extra, albeit cropped panel for that smile) makes me think that Noé's appearance itself is also pretty key for provoking that reaction. If the way Noé looks while smiling didn't need extra emphasis, Mochijun could've given him the smile in the panel above these where he's speaking, rather than give it its own shot.
Noé looks at Vanitas like this for the first time, and Vanitas's eyes go wide with awe. Because Noé is a goddamned vision. It's even more apparent in the animated version, because the animators weren't bound by paneling constraints and could show us Noé's whole face.
I have had irl lesbian friends tell me how attractive they find Noé in this moment lmao. He's just pretty. So I don't think it's unreasonable to say that Vanitas, in this moment, is affected by how pretty Noé is. Absolutely anyone would be.
It isn't irrefutable proof that he's in love with or generally lusting after the guy, but it is a good argument for a moment of appearance-based attraction, which is something we haven't really seen from Noé toward Vanitas. (We've had Noé staring at him in awe when he does his Book stuff, but never an "oh shit he's hot" moment like this one).
There might be other small moments as well, but these are just the two big ones that I can remember with out combing back through the manga in detail. And though there's no certainty here, these are a pair of scenes that can be read as Vanitas being very struck by Noé's appearance in a way that I don't think we've gotten in reverse.
Any positive number is still more than zero, lmao.
#the only moment I can think where Noé really gets Struck by Vanitas's appearance is that panel of him staring up in awe in Gévaudan#but that has more to do with the book and the magic than vani being pretty#and honestly Noé not showing attraction in the traditional way despite his Thing about Vanitas just feels right#it's another facet of his big aspec energy#oh and also. y'all should let me know if you think of any more oh no he's hot moments that I missed#vnc#vanitas no carte#the case study of vanitas#vanoé#the vanoé agenda#vanitas my beloved#english major hours#ask#anon#I think this is the first time I've gotten two anons asking about the exact same topic#ID in alt text
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anything alaya related plsss
Instagram Blurb
you ask and you shall receive
Harry and alaya!reader annoying each other via social media
ALaYA Masterlist | Masterlist | ask box!
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areyoulistening classes are starting back up so i thought i’d pull this from the one direction side of tumblr circa 2012. HELPFUL HINT: if he’s your lab partner, run :)
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fandomcentral AFVDFUNGD Y/N IS A FUCKING ICON
adoreuclub stop I remember reblogging this in my 1D tumblr days 😭🫣
harrystyles My lawyers will be contacting you shortly.
↳ areyoulistening JustHarryThings 🫶🏼
hrryfan I love that the first Harry photo she’s posted is a 2012 tumblr photo imagine
↳ areyoulistening gotta respect where i came from🫡
user007 Harry being y/n’s favorite 1D member: confirmed
↳ areyoulistening wrong. i was a niall girl🫣💀
━━━━
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DailyStylesNews Harry via Instagram Stories August 27
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hsfan2001 Their friendship is keeping me alive
↳ areyoulistening it’s not going to keep him alive for much longer because i’m about to ki11 him 👿
↳ harrystyles JustY/NThings 🫶🏼 @.areyoulistening
↳ areyoulistening YOU CAN’T REUSE MY COMMENT @.harrystyles
↳ harrystyles What are you gonna do? Kill me??? @.areyoulistening
stylussy their interactions are so entertaining 😭😭
user01 Oh to have Harry Styles as a close friend 😔
↳ harrystyles She blocked me.
↳ user01 HAHAHAHAHA NOOOOO
↳ harrystyles Oh. She unblocked me. But I now have a strongly worded DM from her. @.user01
user007 harry is so active because of y/n. we truly love to see it
↳ fan03 he’s also being super interactive with us too??? like he just replied a couple times to someone’s comment
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56,016 likes
areyoulistening welcome to my TEDtalk titled: “Bread Might Be Gold but This Look Certainly is Not”. today i’ll be discussing the evolution of male facial hair and what certain styles mean in relation to the times as well as giving tips on how to accurately pick the best style that suits you.
[tagged harrystyles and ted]
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hisgoldengirl Why do people hate his mustache 😫😫 I must know. He LoOkS So GoOd
fannlyfe Are they in some kind of prank war or???
↳ user11 Nah, I think this is just their friendship
↳ fanmade mhmmm their ✨friendship✨ @.user11
harrystyles Geez you really came for my throat with this one.
↳ areyoulistening Was it too harsh? I feel bad now
↳ harrystyles No, no, carry on. Just sleep with one eye open. @.areyoulistening
hrrysgrl fave pic of all time 😌
dumwitch Her fucking caption. Holy shit. HER CAPTIONS ARE LEGENDARY. The fact she tagged Ted talks too 😭😭😭
harryshq Harry I love you, but the mustache is not it
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1,800,807 likes
harrystyles “Why’s the sun so bright?” she asks as she’s looking directly at it. The sun is bright but she’s not.
[tagged areyoulistening]
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liveloveharry Okay but like… I kind of get it
user_3 I want to know what prompted her to look up at the sun 🤔
↳ harrystyles Literally nothing. She’s just like that. It often worries me.
areyoulistening in my defense, i didn’t think that it would be that bright with the fabric over my eyes.
↳ harrystyles You mean, you didn’t think the SUN would be bright after you put a thin piece of white fabric over your eyes? Yeah I definitely see the logic there @.areyoulistening
↳ areyoulistening HEY NO NEED TO GET SNAPPY. ARE YOU STILL MAD OVER THE MUSTACHERRY POST? @.harrystyles
↳ harrystyles wtf is a mustacherry? And no I’m not mad over it smh. I just care about your overall health and general wellbeing. You staring at the sun negativity impacts said wellbeing. @.areyoulistening
↳ areyoulistening awww he cares 🫶🏼 @.harrystyles
↳ harrystyles Of fucking course I care. I want you to stay by my side. You can’t do so if you don’t take care of yourself smh @.areyoulistening
hsfan24 AHSFHEHA HARRY ADMITTING HE LIKES Y/N???!!!???
dailystylesnews So this week we’ve had: y/n and harry officially acknowledge they’re at least friends, us as a fan base once again having the mustacherry conversation, and harry ruining is ig aesthetic to post a photo of y/n… anything else?
↳ allthatmatters he also publicly admitted his feelings for her 🫢
I realized I forgot to tag everyone… days later.
tag list: @theekyliepage @tati813 @reveriehs @thomaslefteyebrow @mxltifxnd0m @gothmingguk @b-reads-things @noooovaaaaa @be-with-me-so-happily
(let me know if you’d like to be added or removed!)
#alaya ask blurbs#alaya!timeline#my asks#harry styles#harry styles x reader#anon reply#harry styles imagine#harry styles writing#harry styles x y/n#harry styles fluff#harry styles fic#harry styles x famous!reader#harry styles headcanon#harry styles imagines#harry styles fic rec#harry styles fake social media#harry styles fake instagram#harry styles smau#harry’s house#fake social media#harry styles x fem!reader
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hi angel c:
may I just say that this gp was as a fiction? it served us SO MUCH Lestappen content from the begging to the very end! i was scared that at some point it's gonna be fucked (yep talking about Charles' "luck") but instead we got a joint interview, a lot of waist grabbing, smiles and giggles, press conferences with "inchident" jokes and karting days (i'm so sorry for Checo and Carlos being the third wheel but it's inevitable, guys) AND the most important – a battle even in FP2 and then in race! i mean, Charles has done FANTASTIC job (not only in race but throughout the whole weekend. his quali laps? fuck that was hot). i don't remember when was the last time someone overtook Max in battle for the lead. i wanna scream to see Charles in capable and suitable for his style car (and reliable team that does not fuck up the strategies *side-eye to RBR*) 😭😭😭
is Vegas gp gonna be Austria 2.0? we even had the "dirty move" from Max which helped him to took the lead (as in 2019 but thanks fuck no grudges are left no divorce and yeah this time it was just a grip problem), then battles and the sensual podium. damn let us have every gp as Austria and Vegas and Lecstappen tumblr will go completely insane ._.
i'm also still not over the fact that Max apologized. I mean this man is literally the entire weekend was: FUCK YOU OKON FUCK YOU GEORGE FUCK YOU VEGAS FUCK EVERYONE OF YOU except you charlie you're my sweety lovely im sorry for the turn 1 schatje 🥺👉🏻👈🏻
i've seen some people being afraid of "lestappen divorce" after that turn 1, but i wasn't one of them. i really think that their relationship has seriously changed. sure that Max always treated Charles in a special way, congratulating him on good positions, even if he himself lost. but for some reason I feel that Charles himself now does not transfer what happens on the track beyond its boundaries. Austin sprint was also the proof.
okay thanks for listening to my rambling, i'm sleep deprived, these FPs at 5:30 and a race at 7:00 at the weekend the only fucking days when I can get some sleep kinda killed me
anyway, let me just remind you that you're beautiful and precious and just incredibly wonderful person🖤 i'm always looking forward for your posts and every time you reply to anons it's so warm, it makes my day better when i read it. just all your love and kindness you're giving people here... it's valuable. you're valuable. love ya, have a great day!!❤️
Denis, my darling, hello! ❤️
Once again you are dropping truth bombs in my ask box, and I am so happy to read them. I agree with every take you've shared here: the Las Vegas GP practically being taken straight out of a fic, and it actually giving Austria 2022 a run for its money. (Which I doubt any of us were prepared for, let's be honest.)
Both Max and Charles have grown so much over the years, and it's wonderful to see that their relationship has reached the point it's at now. Max apologizing to Charles for the incident in turn 1 is definitely a testament to the severe shift their friendship has taken recently, and it's just beautiful to watch.
I wasn't worried at all about their friendship suffering because of what happened in turn 1, and I think those who were worried about a potential "divorce" are people who haven't been as up-to-date on the shift of their friendship recently. They've reached a point where they can have incidents like that during a race without it impacting their relationship negatively at all. And if that isn't growth, then I don't know what is.
I hope you're catching up on some much needed sleep following this race weekend. 💙
Denis, you have given me such a good reason to smile this Monday morning with yet another heartfelt and kind ask, and words can't express how much I appreciate that and you. You are such a sweetheart, you're so incredibly beautiful inside and out, and you deserve the entire world. I'm so moved by your words, thank you so, so much. I'm so happy my posts can have that kind of impact on you.
Thank you so much for making my entire day with this. You're so valuable too, and I love you. 💕
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Turtles Catches Up With Old GMMTV: Manner of Death, and What is a BL Edition
[What’s going on here? After joining Tumblr and discovering Thai BLs through KinnPorsche in 2022, I began watching GMMTV’s new offerings -- and realized that I had a lot of history to catch up on, to appreciate the more recent works that I was delving into. From tropes to BL frameworks, what we’re watching now hails from somewhere, and I’m learning about Thai BL's history through what I’m calling the Old GMMTV Challenge (OGMMTVC). Starting with recommendations from @absolutebl on their post regarding how GMMTV is correcting for its mistakes with its shows today, I’ve made an expansive list to get me through a condensed history of essential/classic/significant Thai BLs produced by GMMTV and many other BL studios. My watchlist, pasted below, lists what I’ve watched and what’s upcoming, along with the reviews I’ve written so far. Today, I cover Manner of Death, a MaxTul crime show that leads us to wonder if we can call it a true BL.]
FINALLY! Yeeeeeeah! I’ve waited a while to get this one out, and I’m so excited to finally drop this review: this is going to be a fun one. Let’s pour one out for the retired homey, Tul Pakorn, as I dive into Manner of Death! (MaxTul after a weekend of PerthChimon and FirstKhao, huh? GIMME!)
So, first things first: I cannot remember who exactly recommended Manner of Death for inclusion on the OGMMTVC watchlist. I APOLOGIZE. I am going to GUESS that it was a combo of @manogirl and @miscellar (and if I’m wrong, friends, please forgive me, and whoever really suggested it, give yourselves flowers in the comments so I can give you a high-five!). In any case, though, as I’ve mentioned previously, @manogirl gets the OGMMTVC Trophy for Hyping a Homey To One of the Best Ships Ever, for real -- MG, your repping on MaxTul has paid DIVIDENDS in my life, DIVIDENDS! I LOVE MAXTUL. I love them, your honors! And they are important, historically, for reasons illuminated below.
Okay, ha, with that out of the way, Manner of Death as a show gets included on the OGMMTVC list because, as was discussed in the comments of my review of Together With Me, MoD may or may not be a BL by way of the “rules” of the genre. The majority commentary on MoD established that MoD was a show that had BL elements in a crime genre-based show that served as an influence for future genre shows in Not Me and KinnPorsche.
Now, I will note, during my MoD liveblogging, that @true-unicorn-queen came thru to say -- actually, it IS a BL (thank you, TUQ, for jumping in the comments!). I am really going to enjoy digging into this, and I think there are some good examples that serve as evidence on both sides of the argument. A little outline to help us out, maestro:
1) The frame of this piece is going to center on whether we call MoD a “genre” show of another kind that’s not TECHNICALLY a BL (like a crime story, or a workplace drama), vs. whether we call it a BL because there were quite a few BL tropes in it, and I’ll also talk about
2) Why I think this argument works by way of who worked on this show (and who may have influenced this show),
3) The general excellence of the acting of this show (...okay, we’ll gently poke Tul a bit, ha), and
4) Touching a bit on the conversation of whether or not MoD impacted future genre shows,
along with some other floating bits about MoD and its wild ending, ha.
Off the bat, I think this show worked because it played with successful elements of BOTH the crime genre AND the BL genre. It was like, fusion television. The actual twists and turns of the mystery (I will try to not give away too much if you haven’t seen it yet!) were FABULOUSLY done, and I love suspecting everyone during stories like this. Hell, I was suspecting Oat, for heaven’s sake!
So regarding the is-it-a-BL-or-not conversation: I’m not a person who dabbles in binaries and hardcore definitions. I really think art is best when it is dynamic and NOT definitively binary -- when art is influenced by many things, by many elements, by many tentacles. (You’ll notice that this is why I LOVE this OGMMTVC project.) I really felt that I enjoyed MoD, purely as a fan, in part because this show used the best elements of the crime and BL genres to construct a story that was exciting, that was SMART, that was driven and crisp -- and most importantly, that was not DRAGGED or HELD BACK by EXPECTATIONS of EITHER genre.
I myself would not call MoD a BL, in part because I don’t want to set up expectations that it needed to MEET certain elements of the genre in order to CALL IT a BL. BUT -- to @true-unicorn-queen‘s point -- maybe I GET to call it a BL, because it used BL tropes so well? I’m not going to quibble in this too much (and honestly, if folks have thoughts on this, jump into the comments, because I think the conversation around this will automatically be fascinating and interesting).
I want to also add that MoD shares many elements with another well-known crime show that is also not a BL, but arguably BL-adjacent -- Jojo Tichakorn’s 3 Will Be Free. 3 Will Be Free is ABSOLUTELY NOT a BL. But what 3WBF established -- on GMMTV! -- was a show that was not CENTERED in queerness or a queer romance story. It was, instead, INCLUSIVE of queerness as a GIVEN of the environment and community in which the show was set. I thought this was groundbreaking for the GMMTV network.
Like I wrote recently about YYY, and akin to 3WBF, Manner of Death, very importantly in its writing, did not hew to a NEED to CENTER the burgeoning queer romance between Bun and Tan -- which I think many would argue is a necessary element of a BL. Their relationship was an important ELEMENT to the show, but it wasn’t a CENTER of the show -- until the end, when we got a bunch of fan service flowers..... and fuckin’ gun whips with a proposal, but let’s leave that alone for another sec, HA.
I really liked YYY for its macro-level commentary about what BL creators and performers face, by way of pressure, of NEEDING to include and/or CENTER a relationship in a BL. The character of Porpla served as a symbol of that internal and external pressure on BL shows to be ABOUT the romance.
Manner of Death just... didn’t deal with that. The center of the story was: who killed Jane? That was it. It was a murder mystery, first and foremost, with two dudes falling in love as a side story.
I’m shaking my head in wonder at this, because Manner of Death did the love side story much differently than 3WBF, all while paying homage and respect to the inclusion of queerness within the show itself. How did the show do it?
As y’all know from my MoD liveblogging, I totally marveled at how WELL this show included some important BL tropes. We had tender gay uncles AND a side couple IN THE SAME SCENE! ThatSorn were a NATURAL side couple, great chemistry, GREAT comedy, and BunTan totally knew what was up with them. Utterly cute! And I cackled at some other tropes, including BunTan choosing to MAKE OUT instead of checking the LAPTOP THEY STOLE from BUSTING A CAR WINDOW, lol.
The inclusion of these tropes was done VERY well, VERY sophisticatedly. Unlike 3WBF, where I did not expect to see BL tropes -- because 3WBF’s crime story was clearly not a home for BL tropes, at all -- I LOVED SEEING THEM in Manner of Death. It was like seeing old friends again.
I wanted to know what was up with that. So to MDL I went, and found that Title Nirattisai is MoD’s screenwriter. I knew I knew that name, and I went a-clickin’, and went -- AHHHH.
Title is the screenwriter of He’s Coming To Me. THE SCREENWRITER OF *HE’S COMING TO ME!!!* And he, along with Au Kornprom, wrote Dark Blue Kiss. As we know -- they are both Aof Noppharnach shows of the highest order.
WELL, WELL, FUCKING WELL! That solves THAT mystery. Why is the writing of Manner of Death so great? Why does it balance a crime genre story so well with the very best of BL tropes?
It’s because we have a writer in Title who defied and/or played with BL tropes in HCTM and DBK. HCTM, as I’ve previously established, was WELL AHEAD OF ITS TIME by way of storytelling, mood, and BL genre subversion. DBK was the first GMMTV BL to focus on an ONGOING and ESTABLISHED relationship -- à la Still 2gether, later in GMMTV’s history, but a decision that goes against the grain of your usual BL assumptions in seeing a relationship BEGIN, complete with flirtation, with longing, with yearning, etc.
Title is a screenwriter who is CLEARLY comfortable with playing outside of the boundaries of BL expectations -- HCTM is DEFINITIVE of that position. Again, I wondered broadly why Manner of Death was just such a GOOD and watchable show. It’s because its writing was flowing, seamless, and SMART. And I think Title knew, that by centering the show in CRIME and MYSTERY, as opposed to romance, that he could actually play around with expectations of BL romance in a new and singular way.
This is some cool-ass shit. 3WBF established that you could lead a crime story and include queerness. Manner of Death took this a touch further, and brought BACK the very best of BL tropes within a crime frame. BRILLIANT. And, listen. I have He’s Coming To Me on the OGMMTVC list as a BL. If we continue to extrapolate this argument, then -- I might contradict myself, and agree with @true-unicorn-queen, and maybe call Manner of Death a BL. In the end, I’ll give this argument to whoever wants to pick it up, because for me -- MoD was just a good damn SHOW that used mystery, BL, and romance tremendously well in its composition. And that’s why I think it was so successful.
(One last tiny note on this: let me not forget to note the director of Manner of Death is Ma-Deaw Chookiat, the director and screenwriter of Dew the Movie. He, like Title, is certainly someone who plays on the very interesting fringes and intersections of the BL genre.)
For my pure simpy pleasure, I also thought MaxTul were way better in this than in Together With Me, Max especially. (As I’ve now established -- MoD was an excellent show itself, with the script of Together With Me being shaky at best, except for dear Yihwa.) I previously noted that there were some little fumbles in Tul’s acting in MoD, but nothing that kept me from enjoying the show. But Max was REALLY damn good. AND: listen. I mean, I love how jocky both of these guys were in the show, but Max REALLY did fighting and gun stuff and like, physical crime stuff VERY well. It was exciting -- he didn’t seem like he was doing it for the first time. If the show felt like it nailed CBS primetime shit like, I dunno, Hawaii Five-O or whatever, by way of its fight scenes, then I call that a win. I CLEARLY don’t normally watch those kinds of shows, HA, but I’ll watch a crime show if it has MaxTul in it, dammit!
Really quickly, on the point about whether or not MoD had an influence on future genre shows like Not Me and KinnPorsche: I will await my Not Me viewing, and my rewatch of KP, to make that final judgement, and I promise I’ll include MoD analyses in both those reviews. I think this is an important conversation to have continuing over the course of the OGMMTVC project, because aligned with this conversation is still a lingering awareness and analysis of the pressures that BL creators face and struggle with vis à vis romance, as I mentioned before. This is a struggle that continues to this day, as we most recently saw in Tee Bundit’s Step By Step, and whether or not that show was meant to be a romance, a workplace drama, and/or a macro-commentary on BL and BL expectations. I’ll be watching Not Me for the first time -- and I was not aware, at all, of any of these kinds of pressures when I first watched KinnPorsche. I’d like to go in fresh with both shows to be aware of what they WEREN’T doing by way of tropes to create very unique art, and to understand if and how Manner of Death opened that door.
One other floating point: à la A Tale of Thousand Stars that follows Manner of Death, MoD is centered in the rural town of Viang Phra Mork, showing off Thailand’s gorgeous northern scenery. I actually didn’t fully put this together until I had moved on to ATOTS on the OGMMTVC list, but as I was watching MoD, I loved that over the course of the show, many of the characters, especially Rungtiva, were shown wearing more ethnic Thai-inspired clothes, just like Khama and the villagers in ATOTS. I love that over the course of the OGMMTVC, we have gotten to see more and more deep dives into Thailand and Thai culture (Moonlight Chicken being another excellent example). Y’all who follow my blog know that I’m particularly interested in tracking Thai politics and Thai cuisine in our shows, and any bits of Thai culture that I can glom onto in our shows is so welcome. I loved it, and I’ll refer more to this in my ATOTS rewatch review.
Finally, oh finally: MoD’s ending, HA. FIRST OFF: I mean, THE WEDDING, GAH. COME ONNNN. What a lovely farewell to MaxTul. At that point, I think it was assumed that we’d see them one more time in Transplant, but alas. But I really loved that we got to see BunTan in full-circle commitment.
And that proposal. Y’all. Y’ALL. I. WAS. DYING. So not only did that proposal NOT NEED GUN WHIPS, LOL, but as @kattahj pointed out to me, the proposal included GIVING SORAWIT/SORN A GUN, which, HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Listen. I didn’t get into the actual deep meat of the show itself, of the UTTER success of the mystery story, in part because I don’t want to give it away for folks who haven’t watched it yet. But -- if you haven’t watched it, please watch Manner of Death. It’s a wonderful break from the BL norm, done absolutely wonderfully by a stellar screenwriter in Title, acted very well by Max, acted very attractively by MaxTul, and the supporting cast was spot on. I know I’ll be checking out Triage at some point to say my final-final farewell to Tul Pakorn, and I wish him all the very best in his next career. We’ll see Max and Toptap next in The Outing, and while that show looks -- confusing? -- I’ll definitely be following it for Max, to see what’s next up in his career. (I hope his health is doing better.) MoD kicked ass, with that classic MaxTul heat, crime, intrigue, AND romance, and it was an utterly successful show that’s absolutely worth celebrating.
[We’re truckin’! I’m making process on my review queue: we have my A Tale of Thousand Stars rewatch review dropping next week, with Lovely Writer after that, and then a double-review of Last Twilight in Phuket and I Promised You The Moon. I’m also going to squeeze in a review of The Warp Effect on Thursday for that Only Friends-flava.
Not Me, 55:15 Never Too Late, and Bad Buddy/Our Skyy 2 rewatch on the horizon. Boom boom boom!
List below. As ever, feedback to ya gal is welcome!
1) The Love of Siam (2007) (movie) (review here)
2) My Bromance (2014) (movie) (review here)
3) Love Sick and Love Sick 2 (2014 and 2015) (review here)
4) Gay OK Bangkok Season 1 (2016) (a non-BL queer series directed by Jojo Tichakorn and written by Aof Noppharnach) (review here)
5) Make It Right (2016) (review here)
6) SOTUS (2016-2017) (review here)
7) Gay OK Bangkok Season 2 (2017) (a non-BL queer series directed by Jojo Tichakorn and written by Aof Noppharnach) (review here)
8) Make It Right 2 (2017) (review here)
9) Together With Me (2017) (review here)
10) SOTUS S/Our Skyy x SOTUS (2017-2018) (review here)
11) Love By Chance (2018) (review here)
12) Kiss Me Again: PeteKao cuts (2018) (no review)
13) He’s Coming To Me (2019) (review here)
14) Dark Blue Kiss (2019) and Our Skyy x Kiss Me Again (2018) (review here)
15) TharnType (2019-2020) (review here)
16) Senior Secret Love: Puppy Honey (OffGun BL cuts) (2016 and 2017) (no review)
17) Theory of Love (2019) (review here)
18) 3 Will Be Free (2019) (a non-BL and an important harbinger of things to come in 2019 and beyond re: Jojo Tichakorn pushing queer content in non-BLs) (review here)
19) Dew the Movie (2019) (review here)
20) Until We Meet Again (2019-2020) (review here)
21) 2gether (2020) and Still 2gether (2020) (review here)
22) I Told Sunset About You (2020) (review here)
23) YYY (2020, out of chronological order) (review here)
24) Manner of Death (2020-2021) (not a true BL, but a MaxTul queer/gay romance set within a genre-based show that likely influenced Not Me and KinnPorsche)
25) A Tale of Thousand Stars (2021) (review here)
26) A Tale of Thousand Stars (2021) OGMMTVC Fastest Rewatch Known To Humankind For The Sake Of Rewatching Our Skyy 2 x BBS x ATOTS (review coming)
27) Lovely Writer (2021) (review coming)
28) Last Twilight in Phuket (2021) (the mini-special before IPYTM) (review coming)
29) I Promised You the Moon (2021) (review coming)
30) Not Me (2021-2022)
31) Bad Buddy (2021-2022) (thesis here)
32) 55:15 Never Too Late (2021-2022) (not a BL, but a GMMTV drama that features a macro BL storyline about shipper culture and the BL industry)
33) Bad Buddy (2021-2022) and Our Skyy 2 x BBS x ATOTS (2023) OGMMTVC Rewatch
34) Secret Crush On You (2022) [watching for Cheewin’s trajectory of studying queer joy from Make It Right (high school), to SCOY (college), to Bed Friend (working adults)]
35) KinnPorsche (2022) (tag here)
36) KinnPorsche (2022) OGMMTVC Fastest Rewatch Known To Humankind For The Sake of Re-Analyzing the KP Cultural Zeitgeist
37) The Eclipse (2022) (tag here)
38) GAP (2022-2023) (Thailand’s first GL)
39) My School President (2022-2023) and Our Skyy 2 x My School President (2023)
40) Moonlight Chicken (2023) (tag here)
41) Bed Friend (2023) (tag here) (Cheewin’s latest show, depicting a queer joy journey among working adults)
42) Be My Favorite (2023) (tag here) (I’m including this for BMF’s sophisticated commentary on Krist’s career past as a BL icon)
43) Only Friends (2023)]
#manner of death#manner of death meta#he's coming to me#max nattapol#tul pakorn#maxtul#bun x tan#tan x bun#buntan#bl tropes#thai bl tropes#the old gmmtv challenge#turtles catches up with old gmmtv#turtles catches up with thai BLs#turtles catches up with the essential BLs#ogmmtvc
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Wahey milgram oc time my silly guya
013 - Shiratori Masaki
My boy
- 20
- prisoner number 013 (I slapped them into base milgram cuz I don't wanna make a whole new cast)
- to quote my own character notes: cringefail specimen of a man.
-- fun name thing! His first name means "true, hope" hehe
UNDERCOVER
"Under, oh so aware of all that you say
This makes me sick, so please, go away"
Votes (fabricated lmao)
T1 - INNOCENT
T2 - GUILTY
Songs of Prisoners
+T1 – what…what are you talking about?
+T2 – no…you-you’re lying!
Voice trailer (t1)
Oh uh… Shiratori Masaki, that's my name. 20, uni student. Uhh what else … oh, sorry if I forget anything, i, ah, my memory has never been any good
If I'm being honest…I don't know what the hell you're talking about! No one around me has died recently. At least…not as far as I can recall…
*Takai? Takai! Wake up! This isn't funny..!*
Voice trailer (t2)
Hi, Es-kun, how have you been? Ah, Shiratori Masaki. You didn't forget our deal, right?
*Shut up! I don't want to listen to you and your stupid problems anymore!*
Personality
-- a timid yet stubborn man. It is very difficult to change his opinions on things. Polite, but very quick to turn defensive if blame is turned on him.
He can be a prick at times.
Extra notes
-- a man with really bad memory loss. During T1 interro, he makes a deal that he'll take MILGRAM seriously if Es can tell him who his victim is. And he has to believe it
-- not mentioned but his memory loss is a trauma response. Dead bodies are traumatic I don't think that's a contraversial take
-- the indirect murderer of the pair
Full body:
Please note -- his ugly fucking shoes were not an accident he has a horrible fashion sense
014 - Akabane Kazuko
The She
-23
-prisoner number 014
-based off one of my multifandom ocs (and my favourite of the 2)
--fun name thing! Her name means "gentle/kind/harmonious child". 子 is also(apparantly) male specific. I have fun reasons for that
UNDERCOVER
(pardon the artstyle change this was done on my tablet instead of my computer and was. Rushed💀)
Under, I don't care if I'm in the right or wrong
Songs of prisoners
Full of malice, we will waltz to our doom
Votes (edit)
T1 - guilty
T2 - (?)
+t1 – let's get on with it, shall we?
+T2 – ...you're not very good at this.
T1 – voice trailer
Hello. I am Akabane Kazuko. 24. A pleasure to make your acquaintance, Warden.
I am interested in how all this will play out. But nothing will really change the impact of our actions. Remember that, Warden
* My final act… will take your breath away! *
T2 – voice trailer
Good day, Warden. Kazuko, you remember, yes? Seems your choices have caused quite the ruckus.
* You…You know what you've done! I'll make you pay for it!*
Personality
-- a calm and gentle woman. A showman at heart, she is elegant and loves performing magic tricks.
-- some are unsettled by her, but she does her best to be kind and friendly to those she speaks to
Extra notes:
-- Magician coded :)
-- because I can fabricate fan theories, es assumed they killed 2 people in trial one. They have only killed one.
-- the direct murderer of the pair
Full body: (outdated a lil, I changed her vibe. Design still stands)
Please note -- bowling alley socks
Interro qns (please give me some interro questions tho I'm very bad at thinking any up)
Also note: interros are formatted as
--
Question
Kazuko
Masaki
--
Cuz I wrote this when I labelled Kazuko as 001 and Masaki as 002. I'm changing it to reflect their new numbers but editing on Tumblr mobile sucks so I'm not changing the order </3
Q)Tell us your family structure
014 — mother, self, brother,
...it's just me now
013 — parents, me and my twin, Shiratori Takai.
Q)Is there people you hate?
014 — hypocrites.
Don't become one, warden
013 — people who always depend on you
Q)Which prisoner is the most similar to you?
014 – yuzuriha kotoko.
013 – hm...
Probably kayano. He looks like he doesn't know why he's here, too
Q)What was your murder weapon?
014 — what a bold question
It was a bottle.
013 — haha, I'll humour you for this one
Hmmmm...... My words, maybe? I've been told i have quite a sharp tongue
Q)What was your family like?
014 — kind, resilient. They were wonderful. I
loved them
013 — they're ok.
Which prisoner do you get along with the least?
014 — mr mukuhara. Nothing against him, he just reminds me of someone.
013 — …Kusunoki. No reason, but I do wish she'd stop trying to talk to me. It's annoying.
Q)How has your experience been within MILGRAM ?
014 — quite good, considering we're all in here for murder.
013 — uh… good? I still don't believe you saying we're all murderers.
Q)Do you have regrets?
014 — yes. I should have done something sooner
013 — no? I did argue with my brother recently, but it was nothing, really. I'll apologize and everything will be fine
Q)Is there a verdict you hope for?
014) all I hope for is your honest judgement. I want to see how you choose to judge
013) Well, since I don't think I've done anything… I'd hope to be forgiven, of course.
Who was your victim to you?
014) nothing.
013) eh? Warden, I don't know. We made a deal remember? You tell me!
What is your father like?
014) i dont consider him my father.
013) uh…he’s my dad. What more do you want me to say, really...
What do you think of the prisoner paired with you?
014) Shiratori? Not much opinion. I do wonder what he's done to be here, though.
013) Ms Kazuko..? Shes intimidating, if I'm being honest. Not scary, just...intimidating
#milgram#milgram oc#aughdgdhsgs my guys!!! i think about them alot#kazuko is an old oc from when i only used wattpad. i just changed her name lmao#and her backstory lmao#masaki doesnt like muu but he kinda parrallels her in that t1 he seems fine if pitiable and t2 he starts victimblaming#as my character notes states: his coping mechanism is being an asshole#anyways guess their victims i think its too obvious but idk#also giv eme more interro questions💥💥 im bad at fitting in questions for a character who genuinely doesnt know#wahey 💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥 theyre silly to me#i havent fully fleshed em out :p but i lobe them#anywags my f#my guys my sillies. im so eepy#the amount of tags is vuz im procrastinating on send post jm nervous this is an oc post ive never done fhis lmao#oopsie. post button
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Note
Oh.
Oh.
Oh my god.
I truly didn’t know what would shake out with Savvy, if they’d find her or not, who would find her, when, where, how. This was so good. So perfect. The fact that Ellie was with Joel surely put Savvy at ease. He knew just what to say. The fact that truly Ellie was integral since she clocked the snare in the first place.
I have read SO MANY Pedro fan give in the last year. Like a gross amount. Three have made me cry, and I’m not a crier. This chapter, this moment was one. For the record the other two were also yours 🤣
THANK YOU and holy CRAP I want to keep reading!! I know it can feel weird but please consider setting up a Kofi or something. Maybe you can’t use the money but then maybe donate it to a cause you love bc you deserve SOME kind of compensation for the professional quality gut punch beautifully crafted work you deliver, and with some an incredible speed at that 😭❤️
(ALSO I was very concerned knowing Bambi was going to tentatively get with someone else and even knowing it wasn’t going to work I was so scared. But I think it was important she doesn’t just get back with him. She’s been so hesitant and guarded it makes sense her incredibly strong feelings be tested and dang if the proof isn’t in the raspberries that Joel is it for her.)
Hi Bestie!!!!!
I really tried to keep Savvy's fate a mystery so we really felt some of how Bambi's been feeling all this time! But Joel immediately going into girl dad mode with her just... I love him. I love him so much. And Ellie being there helped so much, both because she saw the snare but also because she was basically a walking green flag. This young girl is OK with this man - clearly willing to kill for this man - so he's trustworthy. She was integral to getting Savvy home. Joel's baby saved Bambi's baby and I love them for it.
OMG I'm so happy my writing has made you feel so deeply! These characters and stories mean so much to me and the fact that they have an impact on others is so extraordinary to me. I love storytelling so much, that we can all experience these things together and share in the grief and the love and the passion and the joy.
You're not the first to mention a Ko-Fi and I haven't set one up simply because I genuinely don't need the money? In a lot of ways, I've lucked into a fairly comfortable life (not trying to downplay the fact that I've worked and struggled but I've had a lot of privilege and a lot of luck) and have everything I need, most things I want and a nice savings account. But the donation thing is a nice idea! So I think I'll turn on the tip function here on Tumblr and see what happens with the intent of donating what I get from it. That being said, if something I've written moves you to the point that you'd like to pay me for it, please consider tipping another author who hasn't been as lucky as I have financially. I'm sure they would really appreciate it and I'd love to support other authors vicariously!
And AHH yes I totally get you! I wanted Julie to happen for a few reasons? Mostly so Bambi wasn't just singularly focused on Joel. I don't think that suits who she is as a person and I don't think it would be good for her to do that, either. But I also wanted her to really understand that yes, Joel is it for her. She's never felt this way about anyone else and she never will again and moving beyond that - especially when he's RIGHT THERE - isn't going to happen. She needs to learn how to accept and forgive his past and trust who he is now otherwise she's going to be stuck living without the kind of love she knows is out there. She really knows that now and it's putting her in the right place to really process what happened with Joel. They're so close! They really are!
Thank you so so much for reading and for your kind words, Bestie!! Love you!!
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