Nico Di Angelo was born around 1932. the beginning of WW2 was 1939, this is probably about when he came to the USA. Do you know what else happened in 1939? Detective Comics #27, now you're probably wondering 'batcaves why does this random comic matter?' It's matters because that comic is the introduction of Detective Comics newest story, following the adventures of 'The Bat-Man'. It is fully possible for 7 year old Nico DiAngelo to have read the first few issues of Batman comics, do with this what you will.

sorry if this is a weird question to drop on you you were just the first person I thought of who might know but do you know if it's canon/canonically-based evidence that jason is physically stronger than other bats because I always see people say jason is the one with "brute strength" and I can't remember if that's based on anything besides people saying that as a nicer way to call him a brute(maybe it was on lobdells stuff? but I wiped most of those out of my memory)

You thought of me first? <333333 I'm blushing. And it's not weird at all! Even if it was, I love answering weird shit.

Anyway:

So part of Jason being considered "the muscle" of the bats comes from the fact that Jason's currently the biggest of the robins. (Adult!Damian is usually drawn as the tallest of the kids when all is said n' done (that's vague for "age")).

Well, how big then?

I always go with this chart which was released while UtRH was being released:

(I Love this! I wish DC still did little info things like this within their comics. Or maybe they do and I'm just blind. But Look! Canonical Information!)

So canonically speaking, at least when running around pre-crisis, Jason is 6 feet tall and 180 pounds. (Also note criminal mastermind and put a pin in it)

But you've probably heard 200 & 220 thrown around a lot. Those numbers are specifically pulled from two different DC character encyclopedia books which I don't trust at all because there notoriously filled with false information and are dubbed as not canon all the time.

Personally, I use the 6', 180-195 pound range which estimates for fluctuating weight, the passage of time, muscle mass, and minimum bulk & cutting (which I assume is part of most superheroes' training to stay in fighting form, but please recognize that vigilantes are more athlete than bodybuilder) because it's from a canon source (Canon is "king" and all that). No shame to people who use the other numbers or even headcanon something completely different, but again, vigilantes are predominantly running all over cities day after day, not stagnant weight lifters. Cardio vs weights body compositions are quite different even if both are healthy. (And it's not all "swimmer's body illusion" either (they have that body because they swim? No, they swim because they have that body.)

How much muscle mass a person can maximally obtain is up to your genetics. But that max only comes with constant maintainment. It's not feasible for Jason to be doing all that cardio and also have that much muscle mass and fat. Cardio burns "fat" (calories), weights build muscle. We constantly see the former and former-adjacent workouts more than the latter with him. Jason is running across rooftops, flipping off them before falling into a shoulder roll onto the next roof over chasing after bad guys every night. The number of calories he'd have to eat and time put into lifting weights (too many reps a week lead to damage, not growth) to maintain his max (max being what a lot of weights category athletes try to achieve which Jason just hasn't been shown to be (except in his jailbird phase where he could literally only lift weights, read, and avoid being killed to pass the time)) isn't possible.

Using comic art to "prove" how much he weighs doesn't work either. Firstly, because everyone wears weight differently. Two people can be the same height, weight, and sex and look completely different. This is due to different body types, composition, genetics, diet, (what kind of) exercise, and many other factors. Assuming someone thinner is automatically "super light" doesn't factor in different body compositions (fat, muscle, bone percentages). (yes, I know it's stupid to apply science to comics. There's my digression. let me live). Secondly, Jason (just like everything else about him) isn't drawn consistently at all. Sometimes he's pretty damn massive, but we also have Twink and Twunk Jason (DC can't even decide on hair color? Do you think they're gonna decide on his body?).

So, comic book art isn't super reliable as evidence unless we want to theorize if, how, and why he seems to fluctuate between weights all the time (<- Which I have a whole headcanon about if anyone's curious), especially in comparison to the others because, seriously, it's totally a Jason thing. Most characters are pretty consistent in body type. Anyway, someone could argue "See! he is 210!" but it's also not for a long enough period to stick around :/ Again, hard to consistently maintain that much weight as a 6-foot-tall, cardio-based athlete.

Also note: DC is horrible when it comes to weight-to-height lineups. A woman hero can be ~5'7'' and then we're told she's 110 lbs which Fact 1. is considered underweight for this kind of height-to-sex ratio, Fact 2. probably isn't factoring in the fact that muscle is heavier than fat, she just "looks thin", and 3. Usually, totally, absolutely is just blatant sexism.

Really, the numbers don't seriously mean anything of actual substance because their comics, are unreliable, and also usually just...scientifically wrong. But Jason's perception on page, as well as the information we've been told, is one reason he's considered "brute strength first and foremost."

Furthermore, Jason has been shown repeatedly to be on par with Bruce (even when Jason, most of the time, plays defense in their physical fights) but many people chalk this up to him and Bruce having similar physiques making it "easier". Again, counter-productive argument because Bruce and Jason have been drawn very similarly before in stories as well as completely different from each other in others. Also, this purposefully, blatantly ignores Jason's actual skills. No one chalks Dick Grayson or Cassandra Cain beating Bruce up to their body types. Moreover, when Bruce and Jason are drawn similarly in body, no one refers to Bruce as "Brute Strength" either. Bruce gets to be tactical, strategic, clever. (Also Also: In Pre-Crisis, Bruce, Dick, and Jason are deliberately drawn to look similar (height, mass, looks, etc.) to get that Brothers in Blood effect. Still, No one chalks the formers up to all strength. Just Jason)

And that brings us to your question, Anon: Is there canonical evidence for Jason being stronger than the other Bats?

Remember how I told you to put a pin in that "Occupation: Criminal Mastermind" note? Well, first off, Jason creating jobs for his community. Go off, king. Second off, and more importantly so, "Mastermind": a person who supplies the directing or creative intelligence for a project (Merriam-Webster).

When Jason was first re-introduced, what made Jason dangerous was that he was highly skilled and smart. He was playing with both Black Mask and Batman like a cat batting a toy mouse. He orchestrated an entire "slow-growing" takeover of Gotham's underworld (he was actually very quick about it). Jason controlled the situation and planned so well that he had the villains and heroes who were both after him fighting each other so he could slip away and do what he actually needed to do.

Throughout Jason's history, he's always had tools with him when he fights. To the point that Bruce says to Jaybin "You won't always have this" cutting his utility belt, insinuating he relies too much on it, which Jason returns the favor to on his return and fights B hand to hand <3 Love a cocky callback. Furthering this, he knows many, many different fighting styles and techniques both from life experience and from extensive training. Jason's a quick learner by nature and is incredibly adaptive. Guns; knives; swords; pens; sets bombs to specifically implode, not explode; makeshift gadgets; a baseball bat just laying around; a tire jack that one time; brains. I could go on. Jason doesn't just hit things. He uses what he has as a means to an end. He's canonically known as one of the best strategists in-universe and is incredibly creative with his surroundings. Jason isn't just great at extensive, long-term planning either. Bruce himself has remarked on the fact that Jason thinks incredibly quickly on his feet, he's really good at improvisation. Concisely, he has plans A-G and if all those fail, he can pull something out of nothing. Contrast this with Bruce who needs to have a plan for everything. Even if it doesn't look like he's following a plan, Bruce is. Opposed to Jason who can go with the flow and figure it out along the way.

Jason even said this in present-era in TFZ:

And that's the whole point, isn't it? Jason is strong. Incredibly so. He's big and tall and has gorgeous thighs. Not to mention, has a mean right hook. But just because Jason's strong doesn't mean he isn't a bat first and foremost who relies on his brain before anything else. He died 4'6 (on his death certificate, his height varies depending on what source you pull) and famously had to defend himself his entire life ever before being Robin. Being young and small and forced to survive shaped Jason into a quick thinker who could either get away or take enemies 10x his size down. Nowadays, he just has a longer reach.

In Event Levithan when Damian says: "Jason Todd is one of the Great Master fighters of all time" He doesn't say strongest because Damian doesn't mean strongest. Damian means adaptable, smart, capable, and well-rounded in skill.

While I don't doubt that Jason is most definitely one of the strongest Bats due to his size, what makes Jason dangerous is not his body, but the fact that he knows how to use it. It's not "Brute Strength" as many people like to say, it's Strategic Strength. He knows just because he's stronger than someone doesn't mean he'll always win. A la see panels above. Jason knows throwing his body around won't do anything of real, long-term substance. That it's just blindsided and stupid.

I'm sure if I looked I could pull panels where other bats and/or vigilantes refer to Jason as the muscle, brute (strength), all brawn (no brain), other such implications, etc, but whenever people do, it's always to undermine Jason's skill. Because it's not actually about his strength. Jason, with his taller, more built form, makes walking quiet seem easy. And it looks easy because he's good. Jason himself knows his skill set, it's everyone else that undermines him time and time and time again. (Again, Event Levithan, Bruce doesn't agree with Damian's statement even though Jason just outsmarted the six or so people who all just tried to take him down (for something Jason didn't even do, mind you))

But, again from Damian, Jason's not known as "the muscle," he's "the emotional one" also usually used to...degrade Ja--We can't have anything nice apparently is what I'm saying. But yes, when people refer to Jason as "Brute Strength" it's usually them trying to find a nicer way of saying Brute or "thinks with his fists" or "Jason hits first, asks questions later." It's in the same vein as when people say "Jason likes books" as short-hand for "see, he's smart at something" rather than acknowledging that Jason achieved a degree's worth of knowledge in comp-sci by age 13.

Anyway Smart and Strong Jason, my beloved. I wish DC & others loved you as much as Rosenburg and the teams of artists he's been working with do.

I know I just gave you an ask and you must be super busy, but what do you think abt Dickory vs Dickbabs?? Personally, I think Dickory is way better but in Tom Taylor’s run and the current runs, Dickbabs is the main ship. Anyways, I just wanted your opinion on it :D

Also thoughts on Tom Taylor’s run? I thought about it and I kinda have mixed feelings. On one hand, it’s great for fanservice and has some super cute and funny moments. On the other hand, the characters and their relationships are kinda one dimensional. Thoughts?? Take your time and thanks if you answer! <3

Hi, As I've said before (and I'm going to quote myself from older posts here quite a lot, if you happen to come across them 😉 ), I'm fine with both pairings as long as it's well written. I guess a lot of fans lean towards preferring what they grew up with and such like. I'm old enough to have started reading Batman when the idea of another Robin than Dick Grayson was ludicrous, and read the NTT in my slightly older teens. So I definitely have a nostalgic feeling for Dick/Kory.

I think they worked well because they were so different; they each learned from the other and grew as people. Being with Kory helped Dick become more emotionally open after some ten years of growing up with Bruce and Alfred. In NTT # 26, he talks about how he is too introspective and that Batman taught him to be guided by his head, not his heart. And in turn, I'd say Kory learned not always to be ruled by her emotions, and Dick helped to ground her on Earth. They had their fair share of problems, one obstacle was their different approach to relationships and sex. While Starfire is fine with being married to another guy, for reasons of state, but live with Dick, it takes Dick quite some time to come to terms with that he loves Kory enough to get over that. Dick and Kory were one of the most stable and loving couples in DC for over ten years. Now, in superhero comics, writers and/or editoral make the rules. There were plans to let them get married, but as far as I remember a change of editorial led to that being scrapped. We got Dick being raped by Mirage instead, and eventually, the couple split up. Disregarding that, I think you could very well see them growing apart. They were young when they started dating. I guess they were a couple for two-three years? At that age, it's not unreasonable to think they developed in ways that made them decide to go their separate ways.

If Dick and Kory were good because they were poles apart, I'd say Dick and Barbara are more alike. They have both worked with Batman; they are originally street-level detectives and athletes; they are used to work in similar ways. I could see them as a slightly more mature couple than Dick and Kory, being more in sync and relaxed with each other because they have similar backgrounds and shared experiences. (Which, of course, could make them a more boring couple in fiction…) I'm not a fan of the retcon that they've been friends since school, but they did work occasionally together as youngsters, so it can still make sense to write them as really good friends, imo. I honestly think Dick and Kory have been written as a good couple more than Dick and Barbara. Maybe things had been different if Devin Grayson had got the chance to tie up her long arc with Dick in Nightwing vol 2. Not that I think her run was without its problems, but it would presumably have been better if she had got the opportunity to finish what she started. The ending (or rather the absence of a decent ending) of her run, and the fact that the first Nightwing stories after Infinite Crisis were downright cringeworthy, has soured my impression of her writing of Dick/Babs. So I guess editorial decisions have ruined both Dick's most important relationships…?

I don't know if you're new to the debate about Dick/Kory vs. Dick/Barbara? Because it's sometimes a heated discussion, with people claiming he doesn't deserve either of them, he mistreated one or the other etc.

(Here's what Barbara herself had to say about Dick, by the way. In Birds of Prey # 71. By Gail Simone, art Ron Adrian and Rob Lea.)

I can definitely work myself up too much about fictional characters myself, but there are a few things I try to keep in mind… Fictional characters have no agency. Creators and editoral use them to tell stories (and sell stuff…). Don't get angry at fictional characters or, even worse, real people who love them. Also, reading comics is a lot about filling in the blanks between panels, and different readers can put a book down with very different pictures of what has happened. You can absolutely find examples where Dick has been written as behaving badly against both of them. Sometimes, it's a reasonable part of the writer's long game, sometimes it actually is bad and out-of-character writing. (And if you look, you can find examples where the women have been written as behaving badly against Dick too.)

Honestly, the most important thing for me when it comes to Dick and relationships is that he takes them very seriously indeed. Dick has not had a lot of one-night stands and is on record as saying he's not comfortable with casual sex. When he had one with Helena/Huntress, he wanted to talk about starting a relationship just because of that. When he (fake) married a girl to try to expose her as a murderer, he still avoided to sleep with her, and then he offered to stay with her when the case was closed, because he felt bad for deceiving her. Outside the blasted annual, I don't know of any time he was written as (knowingly) having sex with someone while he's in a relationship with another. Girls tend to break up with him, not the other way around. I'm sure other people have different ideas, and it can vary between writers and eras, but I think you can read Dick as someone who likes to be in a relationship, to be intimate with someone – but who's not into casual sex.

When it comes to Tom Taylor's run, I pretty much agree with you. I don't hate it, as some people seem to do, but I think the art has been the best part. It's mostly been pretty meh, TT has at several times spoken about how Nightwing is an A-lister among DC superheroes, but I don't think he shows it. And here and there he produces some really nice panels/pages (sometimes it's up to debate whether the characters are out of character or not). We're heading towards the end of his and Bruno Redondon's run and they've hinted he's going to stop being Nightwing. As if we need a third period of Dick not being Nightwing in three years… 🙄 The best writer of Nightwing vol 4 was Sam Humphries, in my opinion. Unfortunately, it was very short.

Ok, this post has definitely gone on long enough... but if you want to go deeper into the rabbit hole, here are some earlier posts.

Dick Grayson Reading Guide Part 1: Robin

I got a request to do a Dick Grayson reading guide, so that's what this is. This isn't going to be an exhaustive list of every issue he's in, just stories I think are good and/or important to read to get him. This website is good if you want to know every issue a character has appeared in, at least pre-Flashpoint: https://dcuguide.com/w/Chronologies

These won't be in publication order, but in chronological order for Dick's life. Due to the nature of comics published over many decades, some of these may have minor contradictions or differences in characterization, but they're all worth reading in my opinion. Some of these were unfortunately written by creators who many will not feel comfortable supporting. To that I say, there are ways to find comics second hand, or read without supporting particular creators.

Robin:

Batman: Dark Victory

This to me is the definitive Dick Grayson origin, though he doesn't show up until the second half of the story. That said, it is one of the best Batman stories ever written, and its version of Robin's origin has been repeated in several other tellings.

Batman Chronicles: The Gauntlet

This is a nice little one off story, chronicling Dick Grayson's graduation from training. Batman puts him through one last test to see if he is ready to hit the streets as Robin. It also leads very nicely into the next story.

Batgirl/Robin: Year One

This is actually two stories collected into one trade, with Robin's set first. It chronicles his first year as Robin after running The Gauntlet. Big themes you'll see are Dick and Bruce having a rocky start, and Dick balancing life as a normal kid with life as a vigilante. Alfred narrates, and offers a lot of introspection on whether being Robin is really good for Dick. Batgirl's story takes place next, and while Babs is the main character, Robin plays a major part in getting Bruce to accept her into their war on crime.

Teen Titans: Year One

This is the story of the first time the Titans met and teamed up, and shows their growing pains. It illustrates what each member brings to the table, shows the difference in their relationships to their mentors, and shows the difference between Robin with Batman and Robin with the Titans. Bruce comes off a little harsh in this one, which some might find off-putting, but I think it makes sense for his character. He's protective, and not particularly good at communicating.

The New Teen Titans

This is the oldest book on the list, and a classic. If you're fond of the 2003 Teen Titans cartoon, this comic was the blueprint for it. It tells the story of the reformed team when they're all about 19 years old. At this point, Dick has dropped out of college and is at odds with Batman. His leadership of the Titans provides him with even more opportunities for growth and independence, and eventually he sheds the identity of Robin to become Nightwing, in The Judas Contract (about 40 issues in). You can stop reading after The Judas Contract if you just want to see Dick's last days as Robin and transition to Nightwing.

Extras if you want more:

Lost Carnival: A Dick Grayson Graphic Novel

This is a nice young adult graphic novel that tells a story about Dick when he was still in the circus. The art is phenomenal, and this story shows that Dick already had a lot of the foundations of Robin, and Nightwing, before ever having met Bruce. His parents are actual characters too, which is nice. Dick is slightly older in this than he normally is before his parents die, and it isn't really canon, but it is good.

Robin & Batman

This three issue series is essentially a different take on Robin's first year. It could or couldn't be canon, it's a little vague. Some readers will be turned off by how militaristic Bruce is, and how angry Dick is. However, I think these are both accurate representations of how they would have acted in their earliest days as a team. Bruce wants to be a good mentor, but doesn't know how yet, and Dick is still grieving the loss of his parents. The art is also phenomenal.

Year One: Batman/Scarecrow

This story takes place during Bruce and Dick's early days, but they are a well-oiled team by this point. It chronicles their first encounter with Scarecrow, and has a lot of cute moments between Bruce and Dick. Not required reading, but absolutely a fun one.

Batman One Bad Day: Mr. Freeeze #1

This is the most recent comic on the list, and a very interesting issue. It showcases an encounter between Batman & Robin and Mister Freeze during Robin's early days. It isn't their first time meeting, but Robin is young during this story. It's set around Christmas, and is a wonderful character study of not just Freeze, but also the difference between Robin and Batman, and how Robin brings light to Batman's mission.

Batman/Superman: World's Finest #6

This is a single issue of Mark Waid and Dan Mora's wonderful 2022 series, that focuses heavily on Robin. Technically it picks up where the previous five issues had left off, but all you need to know is that Robin has been lost in time and Batman and Superman have to find him. It's a great showcase of Dick's skills as an older Robin, and features beautiful art by Travis Moore, using Mora's amazing Robin redesign. Fans of Dick's time in the circus should especially check this out.

Robin: The Bronze Age Omnibus

This will likely be the least approachable for some readers, simply due to its age. The Bronze Age omnibus contains a selection of Dick's stories as Robin from the 1970s, while he was in college. It is a product of its time, in that Dick's college experience is VERY 1970s, and concerned with the issues of the time. I think it's a wonderful lead-up to The New Teen Titans, showing Dick striking out on his own as an adult crimefighter, over ten years before Nightwing was even conceptualized.

For those wishing for even more Robin content, I would point you in the direction of the Batman Golden and Silver Age omnibuses, the World's Finest Silver Age omnibuses, and the Teen Titans Silver Age Omnibuses.

I hope you found this list helpful, and I will begin working on a Nightwing reading guide soon.

with my 2024 wip list locked and loaded (under the cut).

send me “spoiler!” + a number from 1 to 25 and ill give u a vague spoiler abt a story im writing

1001 nights. Thanks to Batman: The Cult, Jason must know how to deprogram someone. In The Man Who Stopped Laughing, he discovers that Joker goes around brainwashing people into Joker-lites. Do the math.

5 times dick and zatana fooled around on dick's birthday and 1 time they didn't. What it says. I consider it part of the same continuity as my longer Young Justice WIP.

aditf: jason survives. I came up with this one before the fauximile, and it doesn't follow that. It'll focus on Jason's recovery and asks questions about what his survival would have changed in Batman comics as a whole, going forward.

amnesiac!jason. Circa new-earth, before Damian entered the picture. Jason faced something that broke his psyche and, while it was getting fixed, Bruce took creative licenses. Now Jason lives a "normal" life, starting college, working... but something is clearly WRONG. I swear I came up with this story before Gotham War xD, but there were some eerie parallels that jumpted at me as I read lol.

batwoman / robin: 2.0. AU of Batwoman's third season. Upon the realisation that a lot of what instantly appealed to me about batwoman!Ryan is similar to what appeals to me about robin!Jason, I decided to sit down and write about it. And I took advantage of it to tackle some changes I really didn't like in s3.

caretaker red hood (prev. bloodsharing wip). I read that at least in some comics it's been said that Jason (and Bruce, but that's less relevant) is 0-. I engineered a situation where the (still masked) Red Hood had to give a blood transfusion on the field to Bruce, and to take care of his injuries.

cass & jason: street kids. Cass makes it to Gotham a bit earlier, wandering the city, homeless. Just around the time a catatonic Jason is around, sharing his food with other homeless people. And just in time for her to intervene when people try to take Jason away.

convergence + incorporated: hold my beer (brand new!). Takes the end of the new earth timeline and puts Jason & Bruce on a difference direction, taking inspiration from Convergence: Batman and Robin, the basic premise of Batman Incorporated, and explores how Bruce killing Darkseid could've affected things.

damon and elena: marriage of doom. the quieter horror that I think Elena and Damon's marriage would inevitably be (especially in an universe where Damon put his money where his mouth was re: alienating others, and he killed Jeremy instead of Tyler).

dc vs. vampires, re-imagined. I read the first volume of that story and I was... disappointed. I decided to do my own spin on it: more character focused, less about the JL/saving the world~~ shenanigans. And obviously, Jason lives xD (well. Technically).

desperate housewives/spn crossover. all based on a dream I had where Tom Scavo was brutally killed by some monster and the late-seasons spn team came to infiltrate the suburbs and investigate LOL.

gotham: bruce plots a murder. Future fic set on the Fox show, about how that Bruce might react to Valeska killing Jason. The title sounds tongue-in-cheek but this is very angsty I swear.

gotham war: everything gets worse. Exactly that xD. I took what happened to Jason in GW seriously and poured more angst over it. What if he got hurt in some incurable way that meant he'd need to change his life going forward? What if he couldn't bring himself to save the child in Catwoman #57? What if the Joker did something much worse to "cure" him? And so on and so forth.

rogue green lantern!Jason. Someone on reddit joked about how, if Jason "overcame great fear" during Gotham War, he could get a ring. I don't think he'd join the Corps, but he would also not renounce to such power coming at a time of such vulnerability either.

immortal!Jason. It's basically canon that new earth!Jason came back from things that should have killed him with no explanation. So what if he can resurrect, over and over? This is about each of the Bats finding out about it.

orpheus!jayeddie. Jason finds out that Kid/Red Devil, his only peer from back in the day, got his soul sent to Hell.

jason + joker’s last laugh. Jason finds out about what happened in that arc (Dick beating the Joker to death, Bruce resucitating him). It only makes things worse.

jason’s journals. AU of War Games. Steph survives and is recovering in the Manor. There, she finds some old journals, written by the mysterious second Robin... and she, Tim, and Cass start to unravel the stories they'd been told about Jason vs. what he wrote himself. Just in time for the Red Hood to come into town.

jason’s new rules. Jason takes a victim's death really hard and reevaluates. Set on some amalgam of the main continuity, post-Alfred's death.

journalist!dick. Prompted by a tumblr post discusing how he could've gotten inspired to be an investigative journalist (thanks to Clark & Lois!). It takes things from Nightwing & Batman comics, and from the UTRH animated film, twisting some things around (for example, in this world Batman never took another sidekick after Jason's death, so Cass, Steph, and Tim's stories go differently).

kidnapping wip. Also inspired by a weird dream. Bruce manages to snatch Jason at the end of UTRH, takes him to the Manor to heal, and decides to try a little Stockholm syndrome. I also came up with this one before Gotham War xD

outlaws vs. justice league: simulation. If you haven't read the "Red Hood: Outlaws" webtoon, the premise is that Jason, Artemis, and Bizarro are made the new JL for a provation period... and then it's revealed they'd been put in a simulation without their consent (a simulation where they showed more compassion to some of the "criminals" they meant to hunt than the JL did). Then the webtoon did nothing with that, which really disappointed me. So I ran with it instead.

prison break: robins. Jason is facing the death penalty (for something he 100% did, lbr). Dick can't take it and puts himself in the same prison.

time travel: robin jason. You know all those AUs where robin!Jason suddenly appears on the present, and everyone has to deal with all the angst that brings? I want to do my own take on that. Lots of Jason & Jason bonding.

young justice: FÉNIX. In which I do what I've wanted to for years and write THEE yj!Jason-centric fic that's been so clear in my head. Featuring a lot of Jason & Damian, Jason & Bats reuniting, and tons of secret identity shenanigans.

Okay so I gotta talk about this now.

So I understand the criticisms of people going against the portrayal of Jasons Robin in the new RHATO webtoon and the more reckless side coming out while they're looking for the artifact with the "dangerous? Please" comments.

So, we don't see as much of Jason as Robin in that beginning moment. He gets a couple lines. One asking what the world ever did for him or his parents, and one kind of teasing Batman.

I actually kind of agree with that statement. Now, I do believe that Jason as Robin was a happy kid who believed being Robin gave him magic and had so much love in his heart and compassion. I go off about how he wasnt the angry, impulsive Robin people make him out to be;

But that doesn't mean he didn't grow up on the streets of Gotham without his parents. That doesn't mean he doesn't realize how rough it is out there.

This also was a conversation that actually does really well with Bruce and kind of highlight the light and love in Bruce and how he's trying to help Jason, because he knows Jason has seen the toughest reality but that there is good in the world. Bruce helped shape Jason and helped him feel safe and secure enough to be a happier kid, full of energy and loving to read.

What this early part of the comic reads as is something that happens after Jason completes his training. Like something that happens the first night Bruce takes Jason out with him; the final lesson before he's actually thrust into the role of a sidekick in the field.

Bruce and Jason have a lot of similarities when you look at them and I do think it's because Bruce had a profound impact on Jasons development as a person. Again, he was a kid constantly living in survival mode until he was given a sense of security by being adopted. It's not perfect security, he's still fighting supervillains, but he's okay enough to let his guard down and let people in. This could actually us seeing that side of Jason starting to come out, one that wants to heal and see the good in the world and have that joy that he was never safe enough to truly have.

(I'm more angry about the "We didn't feel like a family" part because shut up yes they were. Bruce did his best and also ALFREDS RIGHT THERE. But Jasons also now looking back on his past with other complex traumas that have arisen since he was adopted and is still healing from the trauma of his life before Bruce. So there might be reason for that).

As for the reckless bit, yeah, no, that scene read...weirdly to me. I didn't like it. However, looking back, I'm beginning to wonder if it's possible that Jason knew they were being watched and decided to act dumb.

See, Jasons a meticulous planner. And there's no doubt he knows that he has a little bit of an advantage of people read him wrong; people see him as the angry, impulsive jackass who goes in guns literally ablazing. He knows he's not.

However, he can use that to his advantage. Keep people from figuring out he's on to them. Make them underestimate his abilities as a detective and fighter by playing into that role, while he's digging around for the truth. After all, of course he's gonna question why Huntress' supossedly dead father just randomly showed up and sent him on a mission. Artemis knows something is up and isn't afraid to say so, but Jason might be playing along until he can turn the tables on Bertinelli once hes got the pieces together.

At least, that's what I'm hoping it's gonna end up being. Because that would actually be really good writing but that's just me. Or that if that's not the case, then whatever that comment was doesn't happen in later chapters (I've only read the first 3 that have just released, not the early access ones).

All in all, still hopeful and still enjoying what I'm reading.

SantaQuest pt 2!

I have decided I still don't care enough to read the rudolph comics at this point so, continuing from last time, we're off to

Batman #239

Chronologically, this one comes before Shazam #11, but I forgot about it, so we're doing it now.

Story #1: Silent Night, Deadly Night!

We open on Batman, pursuing someone who's been attacking Santas and stealing money they were collecting for charity! After a pursuit and brief scuffle in which our attacker attempts to strangle Batman with Christmas lights:

We learn that he's doing this because he was laid off his job and has his young niece to look after. Batman's like 'cool motive but that doesn't excuse the crime,' and after further discussion the man decides that actually all the blame is on the man who laid him off and goes off to confront him!

Batman pursues (with young Betsy the niece), only to be stopped by the snow! Fortunately, he finds a Christmas miracle!

Betsy: Look! Batman: A horse... and an old-fashioned sleigh! No sign of the ownder... but we'll borrow it anyway! I hoped for a miracle... I got one! Hang tight, Betsy-- Horse gidyap!

In the end Christmas spirit triumps! Our criminal (of sorts) had a change of heart and didn't attack the man who laid him off, instead helping him along with Batman when it turns out he's having health problems. Batman offers to help the man get back on his feet, and when he goes out to check on the sleigh... it's gone!

Batman: Strange... They're both gone! Vanished without a trace! The horse and the sleigh were responsible for the... miracle the doctor mentioned! ...Wonder who owns them!? No, no second though... I do know who it belongs to! Narration: The storm is gone... and a star rises in the east to herald a new day...

This is the basically the only appearence of Santa here and it's in spirit. But it's still fun

Story #2:

The Loneliest Men in the World

A reprint from Batman #15: Batman and Robin team up to spread christmas cheer! Santa also does not appear in the story, not even in spirit, but I need to share the santa sleigh-mode Batplane with you all:

Batman: How do you like it? Robin: It's a regular Santa Claus sled, with runners, sleigh bells and everything! ... This is going to be more fun than anything we've done in a long time!

Forbidden Tales of Dark Mansion #15

In this story we meet one of those men wearing a Santa costume who has just appeared to kidnap a young girl! We then change over to meet old Mr. Kringull who likes to repair toys for his neighbors. I wonder who he could be...

Mr Kringull: Not a darn thing, Mrs Green! I'm just pleased as punch that I was able to fix up all the broken toys in my shop in time for Christmas! Tonight is Christmas eve, you know and I want to close up early! Got an important little--er--errand to perform tonight, and a lotta friends are gonna to be mighty cross with me if I don't do what I'm supposed to do!

When our fake Santa's landlady discovers the body of the girl he kidnapped, he's pursued by the police, taking refuge in a sleigh in the back of Mr Kringull's shop. And what do you know? He really is Santa! Our fake santa makes the mistake of standing up in the sleigh and falls to his death! Hanging behind like a gruesome, uh, a gruesome something. Sue me I don't have a good metaphor at this time.

I know a Tim stan, and we have come to a conclusion: Dick and Jason were taken for granted. Tim, because Bruce now knew his kids could die, was given compliments and such

I feel like Bruce also kept his distance from Tim, but maybe that's because i read Tim's solo and stopped reading the detective comics and batman comics after Tim's initial arc, but it kinda felt like Bruce just let Tim do his own thing rather than being a team with him, and called him when he needed help going through like camera footage and stuff (from what i recall of the batman comics). Also it seemed like he spent less time training tim (he sent him off to Dick for a period of time, and then to Europe he kinda just offloaded the work). It was also a different relationship with Tim from the start - even though Dick pretty much immediately considered him a brother, Tim already had a dad (and while Jack wasn't winning any awards, he took Tim fishing, disciplined him, housed him, and covered the dad role after he woke up from his coma), and it doesn't really seem like Bruce considered Tim his kid like he did with Dick and Jason. Tim didn't live with Bruce. He was only there to be Robin, he wasn't there to be Bruce's son. Eventually Tim is adopted, but it's as a publicity stunt to catch a kidnapper of rich kids, whereas for say Cass and Dick, it was the culmination of their relationships with Bruce. I think you can't only contribute Tim's different treatment by Bruce as to the fact he knew his kids could die - because when you look at his relationship with Steph, he's super hard on her partially because of how much she reminds him of Jason. Like he literally takes Cass to Jason's grave and draws comparisons to Steph to make a point to her that Spoiler shouldn't be a hero. When Cass loses her ability to read people, Bruce stops letting her out with Jason as his justification. He doesn't really do this with Tim - and I think the reason he does with Steph is because he sees similarities between her and Jason, and that with Cass because he sees her as his daughter, whereas with Tim he's distanced himself enough and doesn't see the similarities between Tim and Jason. I think that distance and having to be present in the double role of parent and mentor is why he does better with Tim (and out of text, some of it's definitely the sexism of the writers when you look at how Steph is treated vs how Tim is treated, plus Tim's kinda written as a self insert power fantasy for nerdy boys so he can't be getting dunked on).

Now on the other hand, this is only really taking modern era stories into consideration, and we don't really have too many examples of how Bruce parented Jason in the modern age (when Jason was young). We have plenty of examples for Dick (Robin: Year One, Batman/Scarecrow: Year One, Teen Titans: Year One, Dick's origin getting retold 5000 times, flashbacks in Nightwing stories, Robin & Batman, etc. etc.) where it's pretty clear Bruce was not the best parent (in mild terms). With Jason we don't really have the same thing - so that begs the question - what was Jason's relationship with Bruce like in the modern era of comics? Are the original comics with him as Robin still mostly canon? Because Bruce wasn't really a bad parent in those. To which then it seems like he learned from the mistakes he made with Dick and did better with Jason as a father before Jason died, and then after Jason died just went to absolute crap and Tim was only spared because Bruce didn't consider him his son. Idk, food for thought

do you think damian’s realization (killing someone means you’re giving them the chance damian got to not kill) + him still blaming himself instead of his circumstances, implies that accepting that he is deserving of the chances he was given was a big road block for him coming to that realization?

“these ppl don’t deserve a chance” —> “if these people deserve a chance then that means i deserved mine”

(all this was probably touched on in RSOB but fjfjf it’s been awhile for me)

(same person who just sent the “more takes of damian caring abt the environment”)

it's honestly hard to say because at least pre new 52 damian doesn't come at his previous situation with a lot of self loathing or self blame. i don't think he kills people or is harsh on people because he secretly hates or blames himself, I think that it's just what he views as correct for the situation.

like hmmm thinking of people we see him kill on screen

spook: spook was a danger to others (had just kidnapped dudes and taken them hostage), damian was going through this with the perspective of an assassin still and that's how you fight crime -- spook won't be able to hurt anyone again

netz: post robining, netz was defense of his dad (literally about to kill bruce)

morgan ducard/nobody: ducard has been having a beef with damian's dad and just tortured damian and was about to kill him. however i don't think that that factored into damian's motivation for killing him, b/c damian is portrayed as like... very unemotional during this* and kills ducard when ducard is pretty much like 'yeah i'll be back and you should just kill me b/c i know everything about you and your family' and then damian kills him. like honestly that read as kind of suicide-by-10-year-old to me

talon: the talon was pretty much immune to most damage besides head-cutting-off, was already killing a bunch of soldiers who were helping the guy damian was supposed to protect, portrayed as a necessary thing. should be noted he did verbally empathize with the talon as in like both of us were raised to be assassins or something

various league of assassins guys in a training sequence in b&r #0: it was training (I assume it was like special b/c it was a test and they don’t always go all out, since we lose more assassins this way) and it was what he was ‘supposed’ to do

should be noted that in R:SoB, he does contextualize his childhood as “what was done to him” (link), which is clearly acknowledging that like. he didn’t roll out of the womb as an assassin. but that’s also the comic he takes the most personal responsibility of his past actions in the league in, like he’s convinced he has to go and undo everything that he can undo. i think him viewing it as something that was done to him might work in conjunction with him articulating that killing people is wrong (but ofc he still puts a ton of responsibility on himself). I think when it’s just the way that things work, he doesn’t need an internal justification of ‘this stuff that happened to me was unfair’, but when he starts thinking of it as wrong he has to think about why he was doing these things he now thinks are wrong. granted like. he stops killing people long before he articulates why it’s wrong to kill people. it’s complicated and will probably require more thought on my part :P

*alternate explanation could be he's dissociating

Robin was originally supposed to be a lens character children could see themselves through. But that was when superhero comics were trying to sanitize themselves and become more child friendly; the problems were supposed to be less gritty and realistic.

Later we see a trend in comics (art comics first, and then expanding into mainline superhero comics) of becoming more serious, dramatic, and realistic. And then, continuing, grimdark and edgy. Then, the context of the media has changed, but the character of Robin has either changed very little, leading to a mismatch with the tone and attitude of the work, or a lot, leading to a Robin who is treated in a more realistic way that isn't a lens character for children.

Robin hasn't been intended as a lens for children for a while, for the main reason that children aren't the primary consumers of comics anymore. You can easily see this by comparing Robin as he appears in graphic novel(la)s aimed at the MG/YA crowd versus how he appears in mainline titles. In their own comics - Robin or Teen Titans titles - compared to their supporting roles in Batman or even Batman and Robin titles, there's also a marked difference in the attitude toward and by Robin as a character.

This is what's led to the discussion in text of Robin as a child soldier; the world of superhero comics has changed drastically, and with it the respective positions of heroes within it, especially child heroes, and especially child heroes who are under the putative guardianship of a competent adult. Characters make numerous references to the changing world around them, such as, "villains robbed banks back then, they didn't kill people" or "it was a simpler time when it made more sense for Robin to be exposed to that."

When analyzing older comics (generally before the '80s, when they really started getting darker) that contain Robin as a lensing character, obviously it doesn't make sense to read it as commentary on child soldiers. (Although it can still be productive to do so, as superhero comics have always been a product of American imperialism and widely used as a propaganda tool for the military.) Mostly people aren't analyzing older comics, though.

People are analyzing more recent comics, which are often intentional and explicit commentary on Robins as child soldiers, and how that would realistically impact their lives. This offers a lot of narrative avenues into trauma, responsibility, growing up, etc. that can do a lot of heavy lifting with the sorts of metaphors comics have always been good at. They're still characters that deal with coming of age issues, it's just that those issues are more often abuse/neglect recovery and recent independence (which matches the slightly older age of people who are likely to read a lot of comics).

People aren't failing to analyze media correctly, they're just analyzing a different part of a massive multi-author project that frequently contradicts itself and, depending on who's crafting stories and why, deals with massively different issues and implications. It's not a paradigm that works for every story, but it's a paradigm that works for many stories that intentionally invoke it.

It's also a paradigm that works for many stories that unintentionally invoke it through usage of things like military aesthetics or command structures/training, authoritarian voice, realistic violence, references to war literature and especially war trauma literature, and explicit vocabulary such as 'soldier', 'follow orders'/'disobey a direct order', 'commanding officer', 'wartime', 'chain of command', etc.

Like, yeah, it's a story, and someone invented that story, and Robin is never a real person who needs to be treated like a real child. But, also, sometimes the person who invented that story genuinely is a fascist, and noticing thematic elements that treat Robin as a child soldier are an interesting and productive use of media analysis.

And when the authors want to explore child soldiers thematically, it's reading against the text to claim that Robin is still just a lens.

Just got the notification to my ask, tumblr is so weird sometimes.

Anyway, your ideas sound so amazing. I can't wait to read it if you decide to post it. I'm so excited for the new Nancy plot in s2 because fr, the lab was so meticulous in s1 that they would have searched her before entering. No way in hell would she have been able to get that recording undetected. Those people killed another person just for knowing El, they wouldn't have been so easily fooled.

I'm also excited for your take on s3, I'm a bit sad we don't get scoops Steve and Robin, but I agree the Russian storyline was so terrible, plus I can live without Steve getting unnecessarily tortured for shits and giggles. I'm kinda doing my own story with an OC as well, and idk what to do with s3 myself. Idk if I'm smart enough to come up with my own storyline. The same goes for s4, I'm still pissed about the whole Vecna being the main villain plot.

Do you still include Kali? Because I feel like this could have been such a good plot if the Duffers wouldn't have butchered it the way they did. I wanted them to focus more on that in s3 than including the Russians.

I'm definitely planning on posting the series assuming I ever get around to writing it lmao

Yeah, the Nancy plot in S2 just doesn't work for me because it was so easy. I get that Doctor Owens was a much nicer person than Brenner, but he wouldn't risk someone leaking information about El or the Upside Down. Plus, I still can't wrap my head around why Nancy would even want to risk getting the lab shut down when it was the only thing keeping the gate from spreading even more. And this was all before Nancy and Jonathan learned El was still alive. Like... boy, it sure is convenient that didn't backfire horrifically.

S3 has been surprisingly easy to come up with new concepts for. Mostly because canon S3 gave us absolutely nothing. The mall plot was bad and gets worse the more I think about it. The entire plot hinges on Dustin finding a secret code that literally only existed for the scoops gang to crack it. Also super convenient that Steve just happens to work with one of the only person in Indiana during the 80s who knows the Cyrillic alphabet. There was also just so much relationship drama in S3 and I cared about none of it aside from Will feeling like he's being left behind, but that was barely addressed and then forgotten about sooooo

Steve will still be getting hurt in my version of S3, but it's not going to be "tortured by Russians in a scene with vaguely comical framing" so that's a plus! Robin will also (probably) be in AUS3, but not in the same role and she also won't be sticking around after that season, because sometimes it's okay to not bring back every single character as part of the main group.

Also I think you're definitely smart enough to come up with an original concept! The Duffers were just pulling ideas out of their asses, so you really can't do any worse lmao

I haven't decided if I'm going to include Kali or not. El's S2 plot is changing completely, so there's no room for Kali there, but she could play a role in Nancy's new plotline. I'm also planning to do one-shots and shorter stories outside of the main rewrite, so Kali could appear in a side-story at some point.

Regardless, this is going to be a massive project. Each "season" is going to be ~150K each, so I have plenty of time to make up my mind when it comes to the latter half of the show.

Got any new Jason todd fics to recommend 👀

I went looking Anon, I filtered the living hell out of the Jason Todd tag in AO3 and I got some fics for you and... for me.

Just remember, this is me and my Jason Todd loving heart cannot read any DC related content that doesn't have Dick Grayson in it SO all of these fics have Dick Grayson in them.

Those are the rules when my brain is involved Anon, so I hope you like Dick because if you don't then I am really sorry!

And I didn't want to find only fics where Jason and Dick are in good terms or talk about certain things that have happened in canon which could lead to them becoming friends... I didn't! It just happened, it was not my fault, I never made "Dick Grayson" a tag that NEEDED to appear in the fic (I am being honest), but I am drawn to those fics like crazy so yeah...

I hope you like my blue boy because he is everywhere...

pretend you were a good man - MasterOfMyFateCaptainOfMySoul

“Jay, I never wanted to do that to you. I didn’t even want to go undercover in the first place and I’m so sor-“ Jason cuts him off with a punch. It slams into Dick’s cheek and although Dick is probably the best fighter in their family, he doesn’t even attempt to dodge it.

Jason follows up with another punch, the green taking control and he forgets how to hold back, how to restrain from breaking bones, he just hits.

- This one is violent and sad, it is tagged Hurt No Comfort, but there is a little bit of hope at the end of it. Made me feel feelings, I cried.

fed to the rules and I hit the ground running - nex_et_nox

“Tim?” Dick calls, heading toward the zetas. Several feet away, he pulls to an abrupt halt.

That’s not Tim.

[or: Red Hood gets shot. Nightwing would like to know why an injured crime lord broke into the Cave.]

- Excellent start of a "What If?" scenario, very lovely it also made me cry.

The Foundation of Brotherhood - BirdInTheCave

Dick wasn't sure how to feel about Jason, at first. He was something new hailed from a bitter circumstance, but all it takes is a few wise words from a butler to make Jason one of the best things to happen in Dick's life. Jason means the world to him, so when he comes home to visit the Manor for a little while and finds Jason with some bruises from out of uniform he demands answers. He doesn't hesitate to tell Jason what family really means.

- Robin!Jason and Nightwing!Dick are ALWAYS a must when I rec stuff, this was beautiful and also cried.

Your Brother Never Tells You But He Loves You So - koyo_aria

“I killed the Joker, you know.”

It was so faint, Jason wasn’t even sure he heard it. If it weren’t for the brackish wind carrying the sound, he might not have. The longer the silence sits, the tighter his chest becomes. The weight of what was said lodges in his lungs, and the gasped breath that follows feels like trying to suck in oxygen on mars.

“What?”

- This is my kind fic, Hurt and a whole ass bunch of Comfort, Dick and Jason talking about the events of Joker's last laugh #6 is just so personal. I love it and I cried too.

*Warning: Panic Attacks. PTSD.

(even in the dark) the road is bright- jesamnelovelace

When Tim accidentally lets it slip that Dick had once killed the Joker, Jason goes to confront him.

- Oh! Here it is again! No need to tell you by now that I cried. Jason being overwhelmed by his feelings, in fics, makes me weak.

*Warning: Slight Panic Attack? It wasn't tagged but just to be safe!

Important Reminder!

What I look for in fics is not what I look for in comics. Jason's characterizations are always a little off but I am okay with it, because none of this is canon.

I just like the concept of Dick and Jason getting along and being friends before and after Jason's death. Them bonding in the way they do in fanon isn't something that will ever happen in canon so I enjoy it in fics.

Only one of these fics has Dick as not being "there" for Jason before his death but it was very light and I was still able to enjoy the fic.

All of these are great one-shot fics in AO3. Jason might come off as a bit too much on some of these but I really enjoy Jason and Dick showing emotions that they will never be written with in comics (due to characterizations or DC being too afraid of making strong men cry).

Anyway, these are the ones that I was able to read ever since I got your ask, I don't want to make you wait for the answer anymore so here are my recs!

If you like them let me know! Maybe I will keep reading more so I can rec others if you or someone else wants me to! ((((I will try to find Jason-centric ones that don't include Dick just in case))))

Hi Whetstonefire! This is the anon about bad characterization! Sorry about the ask! I have a question about the writing in Batman comics. So Batman (nowadays) is being characterized as a terrible father and person while Alfred, the guy who raised him, seems to be characterized as a saint. I'm confused, is this bad writing? Maybe I'm being dumb but, it doesn't make sense to me? Like we can trace a lot of the Batkids' issues to choices Bruce has made. And since parents influence their kids, (cont)

(cont.) does this make sense with the way Bruce is characterized? Alfred would be Bruce's biggest influence growing up, so how is Alfred like this and Bruce is like that? The way they're characterized doesn't make sense to me and the only conclusion I can draw is that it's bad writing. What do you think? Is this just bad writing? I'm sorry if the question draws some mean anons. I did ask another blog this, but I wanted another opinion. Thanks and have a nice day. 

Honestly, yeah, I agree there is a super weird phenomenon where as they punch up the grimdark on Batman and make him a terrible parent in all kinds of ways, they’ve kept falling back on Alfred as a sort of ‘voice of reason’ ‘author avatar’ etc to call out or lampshade this behavior.

Without considering that having raised Bruce from the age of eight Alfred is an active contributor to any emotional issues Bruce has, and that using Alfred this way is thus weirdly weighted.

This has resulted in quite a number of bizarrely hypocritical moments where Alfred is displaying a behavior you can very easily read as the source of the behavior he’s condemning, even as he condemns it.

There are a lot of reasons this happened, which are mostly--well, I suppose they are ‘bad writing,’ but compared to the conscious bad decisions that get made in comics every day it feels like small potatoes.

A major reason is that DC retconned Alfred into Bruce’s childhood very abruptly in the late 80s, after the Crisis on Infinite Earths, while all kinds of things were changing around, and comics in general and Batman in particular were coasting hard into the grimdark.

And there was never any comprehensive examination of the impact this had on their relationship. What it meant that instead of turning up after Dick was already settled in as Robin and forcing himself into their household with his sandwiches and nursing skills in order to fulfill his father’s dying request, Alfred had been there since before that night in Crime Alley.

This new relationship, the emotions underlying the present day now that Alfred was a pillar of Bruce’s universe, was filled in in drips and drabs of bonding moments and retcons, with high points like that recent Father’s Day issue--but meanwhile Bruce and Alfred’s day-to-day adult dynamic was already a pretty settled thing, dry Jeeves-like humor on Alfred’s part included, and the evolutions it continued to go through were largely in response to fashions in dialogue and to New Comics Events, rather than their new backstory.

So basically the fact that Bruce’s fits of emotional illiteracy can very easily be linked to Alfred’s tendency to communicate through sarcasm and dry understatement, that if anything Bruce is demonstrably better at actually telling people he cares about them in words, and yet Alfred gives Bruce shit about his failures in this regard constantly, especially when it comes to his own children...that’s an extremely complicated generational tangle of issues that developed entirely by accident through the random idiot vicissitudes of DC Comics.

I really can’t call it bad writing even, it’s like. A pseudo-organic process, at this point.

Anyway this kind of thing is why cape comics make for such amazing fanfic communities, but also why half the time we all hate each other’s work because we’ve gotten attached to diametrically opposed elements of canon! 😂

Also Alfred is dead right now and everyone is just sort of ignoring it. It’s wild. But, like, last time he died he came back as a supervillain and he wasn’t even Batman’s dad yet?

So honestly I’m just hoping they do something equally fucking weird this time, which will be hard since that was the Silver Age and it’s hard for Very Serious modern cape comics to approach the batshittery of ‘announcing your identity to the batfam by sending robotic Batman and Robin to bring Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson coffins with your fingerprints on them.’ The Red Hood wishes he could achieve that level of nonsensical drama.

Jason for character ask?

Jason Todd 💕

First impression: I got into DC by watching Young Justice and Gotham roughly at the same time. I got really into those shows in my early teens and I was like “oh my gosh this world is so cool and interesting???” So I did like a bunch of research online and stumbled onto the Batfam (all at the same time). When reading Jason’s wiki page I thought “Damn he sounds really cool and awesome”, then I watched the animated movie of UTRH and got into it deeper. I got obsessed with the Batfam, and I became a Jason stan :)

Impression now: For a while I definitely felt like DC didn’t know what to do with him for years, it felt like Jason was kinda floating in space, unsure of himself (maybe in-character for Jason? lol). I still loved his character but I constantly wished that they could really use the writing potential he has, especially since I hated Lobdell’s writing for New 52 Outlaws (Rebirth Outlaws was okay ig). There were decent moments between those two comics but I couldn't stand the way he wrote inconsistently, and the retcons he placed (Like Willis Todd being abusive to Jason and Catherine when he was never written that way before New 52, and completely erasing Sheila Haywood as Jason’s biological mother in Rebirth when it’s such a key factor for his death? Although that could be solely DC’s fault since they retconned Jason’s death as him being “stupid", but nevertheless I’m still salty about it lol). But this year, it looks like DC is finally choosing a direction/progression for his character. After reading Task Force Z #3 by Rosenberg (when he killed Bane), it makes me think that they won’t completely stop him from killing villains but doing it when he has to, which is definitely character growth imo. Right now, I’m pretty optimistic! I’m hopeful because I’m taking into consideration that Martinbrough is going to write Jason’s new solo series coming soon, and I like what he’s done with Jason recently (Red Hood: Outlaw #52). Jason was really suffering from inconsistency for a long time, and with this new information it really seems like DC is finally sitting down and thinking about his characterization. My impression now is positive!

Favourite moment: Omg there’s so many!!! It’s so hard to choose just one lol!!! And Jason has so many cute moments from his Robin days too, he was so adorable. The “He took me away from you” speech and “Being robin gives me magic!” are classics of course. But right now I can't stop thinking about how its literally canon that when Jason doesn't have anymore bullets, he just chucks his guns at some guy’s face and catches it back in the air!!! It shows how ingenious and resourceful he can be at the last second lol. Iconic. Also Dexter Soy really blessed us with his art.

Idea for a story: Jason continues the path that he’s on right now, and he re-introduces the Red Hood gang!!! He has his own territory that he fought for, and it would be like a full-circle moment because the Red Hood gang existed before. Jason would train his goons and they would go on patrol in squads because he's still an anti-hero and wants to protect Gotham as much as he can. When Jason is going through a huge event or whatever, he doesn't have to worry that there won't be anyone helpless in need. And there’ll be funny moments where Bruce doesn’t want to deal with his gang but admits that he’s making a difference. Jason has his goons and they love him and they call him “Boss” lol. The Red Hood gang become the most feared and beloved gang in Gotham.

Unpopular Opinion: oh boy, I think I do? I hope I don’t get hate for this but I also don’t know if this opinion could be unpopular or not but here goes... I think Jason’s re-introduction as a villain was written incredibly poorly. Jason’s villain era was missed potential. I am a Jason stan, and I don't hate him for being evil at all btw! I just wish that DC/Winnick sat down and tried to think about how they could've executed it better in UTRH and so on. Jason was an innocent, cute, and good hero as Robin, he had an established personality and background and then there’s Resurrected Evil Jason™ who was all over the place and just evil lol. However, I enjoy how intelligent and dangerous Jason was against Bruce and the rest of the family, it’s one of the reasons why I like him! But I have a lot of issues in some of his evil moments. Evil Jason™ was killing criminals left and right. There’s Robin Jason, who was aware at a very young age, that not every criminal was evil, they did crime to survive because of how BAD Gotham’s environment is. Before Bruce adopted Jason, he was stealing and had his own apartment (a girlboss). We are LITERALLY introduced to him stealing Batman’s tire hubcaps! Jason killing any/every criminal he could to control Gotham is a little strange, and I know that he had his own valid opinion because of Joker killing him (Which is fine! because hey man it’s your villain origin story right?). But before reading the comics I assumed he meant like the REALLY bad ones, Joker as one of them duh. But there was something off about his villain era because it doesn't seem that authentic to me considering his Robin and Pre-Robin days? For example, there’s the prison cafeteria scene where Jason was arrested, and then he killed a lot of inmates by poisoning them (in Batman and Robin #23? 2011), a cool scene but it doesn't make sense with his original character because Evil Jason™ should be aware that the GCPD is usually known for having corrupt police officers sometimes, so its possible that there was a huge rate of falsely incarcerated inmates at the time, and the amount of inmates that were in there, were probably petty criminals just like Jason once was Pre-Robin. (Maybe we should’ve seen him kill crooked cops? Sorry just a thought). Another example is at the end of UTRH where Jason blows up Blüdhaven for no reason? Like there are millions of innocent people in that city and you’re going to drop a Chemo-bomb after you explain that you’re only going to kill criminals? Sure. Like you’re kinda acting hypocritical, Jason, you just became who you hated most? (I don’t know if that’s the point of the story but based on Jason’s speech of “he took me away from you” it doesn’t feel that way. It feels like his death was his villain origin story to be Gotham’s new ruler and to have Bruce kill Joker, but if the point of the story was about him becoming who he hated most, then he would just be the new Joker, but that’s not what happened. He became a different villain instead which is exactly my point, Jason was a potentially better villain than Joker but executed poorly).

It’s those moments that make me wish that there should’ve been a better writer, a writer that could've written his villain arc in a believable way. To me he came across as incredibly crazy, unhinged (not necessarily a bad thing in evil characters though but still) and ooc compared to how Jason used to be Pre-death. They could’ve written Jason as a villain that didn’t contradict what he lived through in Gotham, and he definitely has a more intimate relationship to Gotham than Bruce does, which would’ve been so interesting to read. But nope, instead DC was like “blah blah blah he’s evil now so let’s write him crazy”. Idk I have very conflicting thoughts on this, because there are a lot of really good moments of him being evil so I don't completely hate it, I just wish they could’ve made it better I guess. Don’t get me wrong though, I think that Evil Jason™ is still iconic and I’m kinda like “maybe I shouldn’t think about it too much, just enjoy him being chaotic which is good enough”. It’s a love-hate relationship lol. But since Jason isn’t evil anymore it doesn't matter now, and I want to re-iterate that I’m not mad that he kills, I love murder actually, it makes the story a little more fun. I like the character he’s become now and I'm excited for his growth in the next solo 💕 (I still support his rights and his wrongs, because he did nothing bad ever lol)

Favourite relationship: I like Jason with his Outlaw friends (I ignore their ooc-ness lol), Jason with his family like Dick, Duke, Damian and Alfred, they have such cute moments together!!! For dating I’m not really sure (I haven't liked a lot of his canon relationships lmao) but I’m kinda liking JayRose right now because they’re cute and they’re such a power couple 💕 

Favourite headcanon: The Lazarus Pit Madness headcanon. It’s not necessarily my favourite headcanon though, but I do think that it explains why Jason was a little crazy as a villain. Like I explained before in “Unpopular opinions”, Jason was all over the place so I don't blame people for thinking its literally canon. I prefer to think that the Pit Madness doesn't completely alter your brain but that it makes you a little more emotional and have slight tunnel vision, and the effect goes away after a while. In Lost Days, when Ra’s warns Talia that she “unleashed a plague onto earth” by bringing Jason back/fixing Jason, is Ra’s way of telling her that he might have a stronger effect of Pit Madness (but he is still fully aware of his actions). I'm not fully into the headcanon because it implies that he doesn't have full autonomy of his actions. But in MY version of Pit Madness, he had total control of his mind when he was evil, but sometimes it took over when he thought too emotionally or when he was too determined for a goal that he spiralled and it made him commit to rash and intense decisions. Over time it slowly faded and he realized what he did. I think my version doesn’t get in the way of canon and helps explain DC’s inconsistency with writing characterization lol.

Whoooo boy I didn't expect this to be so long, sorry about that! Jason is one of my favs so I got really passionate talking about it lol. Also if I made any comic reference mistakes please let me know and I will edit. My comics memory is not perfect lol so please keep that in mind! But I had a lot of fun writing this and can’t wait to do more! Keep ‘em coming 💕 

Source for Character Ask!

Why do you think Steph gets the "girl treated terribly by fandom because she dated one half of a mlm ship" treatment but Cassie who dated both Tim and Kon doesn't?

I have a few theories on this, based more on observation than anything else, so take it all with a grain of salt

1) The inherent difference in how Cassie is close to both Tim & Kon, as opposed to how Steph really isn’t... friends with Tim’s friends much (especially in pre reboot) I think already puts her in a different position. Because like, often in these situations people will try to pit the girl who’s dating the guy against the other guy and have him be mean to her kinda as the author talking through the character, but that doesn’t really work the same way in a situation where she’s friends with and has been romantically with both of them. Take that plus the fact there was a canon point where Kon was a dick to Steph (While she was Robin, because he was looking for Tim and she wasn’t Tim) it seems a more likely route would be using Kon as kinda a mouthpiece for the author to shittalk Steph, which I’ve seen happen before.

2) Steph & Tim’s relationship was around longer and since Tim had a whole solo comic that could focus on he & Steph’s relationship sometimes (as opposed to only being one part of a team book like Kon & Cassie who didn’t have solos at the time), it was able to be more in the spotlight I feel. Since it’s more prolific that way, Steph could be seen as a bigger ‘obstacle’ or whatever. Like, Tim & Steph got together officially in Robin #56 in 1998, but they had been dancing around a possible romance between them since their first kiss in Robin #5 in 1994. And this didn’t really end (it had ups and downs sure but still) until Steph’s death during War Games in 2005, and even after that she had a presence in his mind and then eventually came back and there was more stuff kinda complicated between them until the end of Tim’s Robin solo, and even Red Robin teases feelings still being there. (Also in current continuity they’ve been together again since 2016). With Kon & Cassie even though she had a thing for him since the start of YJ 1998 and there was some flirty stuff then, they didn’t get more officially together until the 2003 Teen Titans comic... and then Kon died during Infinite Crisis in 2006. He came back during Final Crisis around 2009, but they broke up just over a year later in Teen Titans #91. There’s just definitely way less time they were in a relationship with both of them alive vs Tim & Steph.

3) A lot of people who ship Tim and Kon are more fans of Tim and the Batfamily in general, so since they’re coming at it from an angle focused on Tim, his past major relationship (particularly since it was with someone also in the Batfam) I think would just be what people might know more about and thus would focus on even in a negative light

4) People like to use the Cassie and Tim’s romance stuff for Tim/kon fuel, because there’s a lot you can read into that scene with them in the lab and parallels between how Cassie and Tim both feel about Kon, but her and keeping her relationship with Kon as genuine/important is a vital part of that situation making any sense. Vs Everything with Tim & Steph is pretty separate and unrelated to Tim’s relationship with Kon, so it’s easier to disregard/mistreat her I guess?

Idk it’s definitely interesting because Cassie in general I feel gets more ignored (or like I said in my last point, used for parallels between her and Tim) vs Steph getting the hate.

also kinda unrelated but I think that Cassie and Steph should be way closer than they are in canon, something just really appeals to me about the idea of ‘Wonder Girl and The Girl Wonder’