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zylice · 3 months

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Tom Hiddleston always gets the short end of the stick when it comes to ‘Loki’ and Marvel!

- His show didn’t have showrunners that actually knew about or cared about his character or Marvel.

- Tom had barely any input and barely any of his ideas were used:

- The original script he was given was blacklisted in 2018 with all sorts of NONSENSE in it!

- Michael Waldron the show ‘creator’ is a ‘phile’ and a sicko overall.

- Kate Herron said that they ‘made things up as they went along’ and Eric Martin wanted ‘more Sylvie’ than Loki..

- They wanted to ‘knock Tom down a notch’ in order to let Sylvie shine. I recall Taika saying a similar thing in relation to Ragnarok and even Feige removed him from Age of Ultron due to his ‘insane acting skills.’ 🙄

- Nazi propaganda posters:

- Apparently Chris Hemsworth is ‘sick of Loki’ and said that he’s like a “clingy ex-girlfriend who can’t take the hint that it’s done, it’s over.”

- Taika Waititi said that Loki outshined Thor before so he wanted to stop that from happening.

- Taika wanted to put Loki in a porta potty and get pissed on:

- Taika wanted Tom to get pregnant with a horse implying bestial r*pe and other mocking comments. Chris also threw him shade!

- Most of his scenes from the movies were deleted:

- He had to film the show during COVID which stuffed a lot of things

- He couldn’t promote the second season due to the SAG AFTRA strikes.

- He’s never featured in the Marvel opening title sequence.

- He is still one of the ‘lowest paid Marvel actors.’

- He goes out of his way while visibly depressed to promote Infinity War even though he’s only in it for 2 minutes!

- His series didn’t get the ‘spotlight treatment’ or have and show runners who KNEW anything about Marvel or Loki! Tom spent FOUR days showing them PowerPoint presentations showing them all about aloki and the MCU at the infamous ‘Loki Lectures’ but “SCREW YOU TOM AND YOUR CHARACTER! WE CARE MORE ABOUT KANG AND THE TVA, YOUR ‘CHARACTER’ IS JUST A PLACE HOLDER NOW!”

- They made him look older and less appealing in the show than he does irl. Look at him in some shots in the show then see him behind the scenes! The makeup, lighting and angles were unflattering at times! They even managed to remove that sparkle in his eye in the show but it was there behind the scenes!

- The director of S1, Kate Herron said that it was wanted for Sophia/Sylvie to ‘knock Tom Hiddleston down a notch.’ BONUS: Taika Waititi said that he didn’t want Loki to take the spotlight from Thor AND Kevin Feige completely removed him from Avengers: Age of Ultron due to his ‘insane acting skills.’ 🙄 GIVE THE GUY A MOVIE WHERE HE IS ALLOWED TO ACTUALLY ACT WITHOUT RESTRAINT AND CRITICISM GODDAMNIT!! 😡🤬😤

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The director of S2, Aaron Moorhead said ‘Why don’t you just go away?’

What we could have had… 😪 Poor guy. I wonder how he feels being bullied, exploited and sidelined all the time. 😢💔

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valkyrieandstrangeridingaragorn · 3 months

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I am really getting annoyed with people said "loki is just narcissistic person, strange is just arrogant doctor, Wanda is just selfish crazy", okey they are lie that more than that but somehow everyone forgetting that they have trauma and pain(not justify bad actions but still) and they keep insist that they need getting more punishment.

Then we have stark, yeah we know him and if someone say he is just arrogant selfish billionaire other standard will say he ore than that and they said stark didn't deserve punishment what he did , really?

I am have to say I have one fanfic not Wanda friendly but I take theme in MOM because how I hate Wanda in MOM (thanks Waldron make me hate Wanda) from all her on screen MOM is in my hate list.

Also you can see how many Wanda, loki and strange got punishment in fanfic rather than stark, they justify his actions.

They never cared to humanize Stark's victims. We just had that woman in CW who was written horribly and to make matters worse, Stark was framed sympathetically in that scene. Go figure! And of course that scene is followed by him claiming the entire team has to be """held accountable""" (not just him, the team) and when some of them push back he's shown to be the rational one. What a joke.

With that kind of absolute narrative protection, is it any wonder so many people claim he feeling bad for 0.2 seconds is enough?

Whereas with Wanda we know the names of the people she hurt, we heard them speak and explain how much pain they were in. (I always laugh every time I see someone claim WandaVision was on Wanda's side.. lol no).

In Loki's case, his whole past and characterization were retconned and simplified by Waldron and Feige, and those around him were framed in a positive light while he was shown as an evil character who will always have to be paying for his mistakes. Odin, Thor, Sylvie, Mobius... none of them are held accountable so the difference in framing is even clearer.

And with Stephen, he's so unlucky that he got his own movie taken from him and once again his story was simplified for some reason I do not understand. His pain, sacrifices, his story are an afterthought in MoM and ironically enough, he was written miles better in NWH than in his own film. And of course, we got other characters telling him he's evil, he's selfish, he's a villain, bla bla.

In short: he's defined (negatively) by others. Just like Loki. Ever see them defining or defending themselves? Nah. If they defend themselves they're "arrogant" and "narcissistic" 🙄

So I'm not surprised those three are treated like crap by the fandom while Stark is praised to the heavens and back.

Stephen, Wanda and Loki are not perfect. But the thing is... they don't need to be. In fact, they shouldn't be. That's what makes them so interesting, it's what sets them apart from the clear-cut heroes. What we should be getting about them is the why they're not perfect + the circumstances behind their actions and beliefs, those are crucial when it comes to morally grey characters. Otherwise we just end up with "they did x so they're y" bullshit writing.

#anti tony stark #doctor strange #stephen strange #wanda maximoff #loki #anti michael waldron

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breckstonevailskier · 1 year

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🤣🤣🤣😂

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#the boys #the boys 2019 #homelander #anti dsmom #anti michael waldron #wanda maximoff #gorr the god butcher #kang the conquerer #the high evolutionary #anti taika waititi #james gunn #mcu salt #mcu criticism #mcu critical

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hoolay-boobs · 9 months

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❤️ 🌹This Barbie is A Witch 🌹❤️

The original Weird Barbie

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musclesandhammering · 1 year

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True that bi characters in m/f pairings are valid, but like…

Are we just going to ignore the fact that tv writers in the last 10 or so years have figured out that they can continue to pander to homophobes and simultaneously get queer rep brownie points by never showing any actual queer content at all, having a character in 52 different m/f relationships, never once alluding to them being into same sex stuff… and then just giving a one sentence easily-edited-out vague confirmation of them being bisexual?

You guys are so starved for any confirmed queer rep at all that you’re perfectly happy letting film companies get away with this shit and it’s frustrating as hell honestly.

#like? I’m tired-#this is about the Loki show specifically but it applies to quite a few others as well #I see mfs on Twitter (and on here) all the time fighting to the death to defend Herron and Waldron etc over the bi loki thing #when like #babes???#WHAT bi loki thing??#if you had reached for an m&ms at the wrong time you would’ve missed the entirety of the show’s Bi Rep completely #it’s almost nonexistent #I’m begging young queer people to demand just a tad bit more #fucking please #antisylki #anti sylvie #anti loki series #queer representation

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cieric-of-chaos · 1 month

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Hello its me yapping again... about that witch from Marvel sorry bad English

Scarlet witch solo film but instead of being your typical 'mcu magic user shooting laser beams/lame-portaling to different dimensions plot ' it's Wanda Traveling the World Investigating and solving paranormal Cases, committing exorcism ,Collecting weird possessed knick knacks, Interacting with Supernatural entities like Actual Angels and Demons... Ghost? gnomes? Fairies? Werewolf? vampire?etc..like imagine them being an actual entities and creatures ( I hate that mcu always Scientify/Alienfied (?) Supernatural Entities and mythological creatures) boringggg

I think with an actual creative writer they can make mcu Wanda and mcu Chthon interesting and entertaining not just another "I am demon and I made you do bad things because I chosen you plot" please like imagine if he and Wanda actually met before but Wanda did not know he was a demon, they met after her parents die and he's like....(Don't slap me please) Became like her father figure/weird imaginary best friend, growing up in Wanda's memory he's just a kind oldman/creatures that helps her manage and Cope her with the death of her parents but then he randomly disappears as she reaches adulthood and also as a child she's experiencing supernatural and paranormal activities she didn't know he is the reason she is seeing things until she became the Scarlet witch... there is so many things I want to say....like come onnn the potential is there!Just Imagine The Drama The Angst and Wanda Having a Father(Figure) issue!!

Wanda Maximoff Character have so many potential and I hate that writers don't realize it :( Likes she's interesting....and I hate it even more that majority of her fans just talks on how much they I wanna sleep with her...and if not they are just reducing her to another depressed character that don't know how to handle herself I hate that TikTok fans won't stop focusing on her dead families and won't stop making the same videos over and over again, I don't care about her being powerful i hate that they made her too powerful because it's the only thing people always talks about...and Wanda is not supposed to be scary she is not a horror character stop trying to make her scary pleaseeee stop it (Waldron had done so much damage in her character >:|)

imagine her doing actual witchcraft that is not just "moving lowing hand thingy"...ya know like she obviously still gonna use her powers but not just for shooting beams and levitating objects she can do more than that like 'i hate that magic is just unexplained science thingy' it's so boring, I want her to yell Incantation while casting spells I don't care if it "goofy or corny" that's how magic is supposed to be anyway and I also hate the "no need for Incantation thingy" and the Karate-kungfu with Glowing sticks and circle in Doctor strange...how are these people called wizard?

I hope with see some real Magic in Doctor strange 3

how did mcu manage to make magic boring...I hate this...yes the fight scenes in Doctor strange are entertaining but they remind me of Naruto Ninjas more than wizards... and again sorry for my bad English I am bad at words...and "(?)" means I m not sure if the words are right ..

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galaxythreads · 2 years

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i literally don't understand the mcu script writes who've bragged about never having seen the previous movies, like bro??? how do you expect that script to be consistent with the rest of the canon?????????

normally I'd laugh and be like Yeah, anon, these guys are insane, but you have bypassed Mental Breakdown part of my brain and now I am deeply, deeply curious.

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Why is it that mcu script writers are so proud to be arrogant?

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Warning for minor language.

So anyway, the person I thought of specifically as being Generally Terrible to the Franchise Lately was Michael Waldron, who wrote Loki, Dr. Strange 2, AND is currently working on Avengers: Secret Wars. (Yay)

So I did a lot of research about where this guy CAME from and how he's impacted everything because I swear to God I'd never heard of him before Loki. And now I see him everywhere, but usually only in loathing.

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Michael Waldron, according to Wikipedia, is currently 35 as of 2022 and graduated from some Film School i haven't heard of and can't be bothered to remember. He is unmarried(?) and has been active in the film industry since 2014. (8 years, for those of you counting.) He started work on Loki in 2020(? unconfirmed).

The thing that struck me the most was how incredibly short his project list is.

My man has six (6) completed projects. He had three before he started on Loki. And while this doesn't necessarily mean that he's bad, it does show a level of inexperience that baffles me personally.

For comparison, Kenneth Brangah, one of four screenwriters for Thor 1's list is this:

And again, it's not like Brangah's list is enormous, but I do see a lot more experience under their belt before they were approached by MCU rather than Waldron, who had done three projects. Brangah had 20 years in sceenwriting when he went to work for Thor. Waldron had six.

And the amazing thing to me is that even the shows Waldron's executive producer on, he wrote like, two episodes for it? Then he handed it off to other writers. So he doesn't, as far as I can tell and I found, seem to have a lot of experience actually working the writing process, just supervising it.

(I could be wrong)

But here is his latest series Heels, for reference.

the section says "Written by" above the names, I cropped it weirdly.

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So we have a man who has, at this point, worked six years in the industry. He has worked on three shows. He was the assistant for one show, he did not write in the other one, and he has written for ONE show, total. Produced one show, was the executive producer for ONE show.

What I am seeing here, is, from what I can see, a lack of experience. And it shows. Badly.

So why did Marvel hire him?

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According to an interview Waldron did, where I'm drawing a great deal of this information, he has always wanted to work for the Big Leagues. He wanted to work on Star Wars mostly, from what I could see, but he didn't think that Marvel would be bad either. When he approached his agent about how to get working for Marvel his agent told him he needed to have written a movie.

Now you're probably wondering. I DID look at that list of projects he's been involved in, and there wasn't a movie.

You are correct!

Waldron wrote a movie called The Worst Guy of All Time and the Girl Who Came to Kill Him. It's on The Black List and was never filmed, to my understanding. But he sure did write that script. And that script, I believe, is where a lot of issues in Loki start to come to light, but we'll get to that in a minute.

"At some point the script made its way to Marvel as they were meeting people for Loki and that got him in the door to pitch and that pitch got him the job."

When Kevin Feige was hiring directors, Waldron walked in and "I thought I was going to get it, but that's my attitude, I guess, hopefully as unarrogantly as that can sound, but I think you got to be confident" (Waldron). Feige was apparently impressed and hired him on.

Which again, a bold choice that COULD have been great, to give a small name the chance to work on a project like this?? Incredible. Just not in this context.

I feel immensely confused that MCU, which is a multi-billion dollar industry, did NOT actually hire someone with years and years of experience like they did for Thor 1. Instead, they went with someone who, personally to me, didn't have enough experience to seem like he knew what he was doing.

So now Waldron is working in MCU. Things are going great for him. He has TWENTY WEEKS to come up with the plot, the scripts, and the story for the entire Loki series.

TWENTY. I cannot emphasize this enough. That is no time at all. They went from blank slate NO IDEAS to a full script in TWENTY. WEEKS.

So HOW then, did Waldron get approached to do Dr. Strange 2?

Apparently, Waldron and Owen Wilson were talking one day and Waldron got asked to do Dr. Strange 2 because it was just as chaotic as Loki was.

WALDRON: Yeah. By that time, I had been able to build the trust. We'd written Loki. Loki was in good shape at that point. It was headed into production. I was getting ready to go to Atlanta. Fortunately, the scripts were in good shape. One of our writers, a close friend of mine, Eric Martin, took my place and went and was the writer on set, which you've got to have, and he did amazing work carrying the show across the finish line, from a writing standpoint. And yeah, it was just, "All right. You did Loki. That was crazy. Come do Dr. Strange. This is going to be crazy, too." That was really fun.

And guess what! This is the instructions he was given FOR Dr. Strange 2.

WALDRON: It is purely, 100%, "Make the most kick ass Dr. Strange movie you can possibly make." There was no, "You got to get here. It's got to fit here."

Which, by the way, Feige stated that he had no plans for the Loki series beyond time travel, and Waldron was instructed to do whatever he felt like. A 100% most kick-ass time travel series, you might say.

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Okay. So now that we have some background, I'm going to get onto my soapbox and explain why this man was a horrible, horrible directing choice and shows 0 understanding of the characters. This is going to go over Loki and Dr. Strange 2, for reference.

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LOKI:

The biggest disaster I see with Loki is that the FIRST -- and I emphasize this, the FIRST -- thing that Waldron says about Loki in the interview is this:

Waldron: And I'd written a time travel movie about a character who was kind of a villain, and kind of a sh*thead, like Loki.

I think that the problem that Waldron suffered from the most in Loki is that Waldron didn't want to make a TV series about Loki. He doesn't like the character very much from what I can tell. Obviously, he calls him a sh*thead, but he never has anything nice to say about Loki as a whole either. He doesn't want to talk about Loki as a person, or Loki's story, Waldron wants to talk about the TVA. I seriously cannot emphasize this enough. Not once in the interview did Loki as a person come up. Loki didn't even seem to be a character to him.

The TVA is where Waldron seems like most of his time was spent, because that was, after all, what MCU wanted to do. I honestly, genuinely do not believe this man would have taken the job for Loki if it wasn't about time travel. Because Waldron could focus on the TVA and not Loki. Loki was an irritant he had to occasionally do something with.

And now we get to his script that was pitched to MCU.

Waldron: I sat down and I wrote a script that was a time travel action rom-com, is how I would describe it...because they [Marvel] wanted to make a time travel show. And I'd written a time travel movie about a character who was kind of a villain, and kind of a shithead, like Loki.

And the thing is, to me, sounds a lot like the TV series. A romcom, with time travel, and a sh*thead kind-of villain. That's the series we got. I do wonder how much of this pitch made it into the final series, because this is what Waldron had as a reference. (The director wanted to make a romance from what I understand, that was her vision of the series was this long-winding romance, and it doesn't look like anyone sat down in the writer's room and explained to them that the last thing that would fuel Loki's story forward was romance.)

And the thing is, Waldron doesn't seem to understand Loki as a character at all, if Loki is "kind of a villain and a sh*thead" because yeah, sure, Loki can be considered that, but that's not WHO Loki is. That's what people SEE him as.

Waldron at no point references having read the scripts for the Avengers, Thor 1 or the Dark World inside this interview. This doesn't mean he hasn't seen the movies or read the screenplay, as I often hear said about him, but it is strange to me that he makes so little mention of Loki.

This man is so focused on the TVA. Despite how much of a disaster the TVA ended up being. Here's some notable quotes:

WALDRON: What did I learn? Don't write one about time travel, because it's a pain in the ass.

WALDRON: ...A foundation of what constitutes a broken time law and what doesn't, so that we could then just, which is about Loki breaking a time law, and then you have to move all that stuff as far to the background as humanly possible, because you don't want the audience focusing on the rules of time travel during your show.

I love how "Loki breaking a time law" is supposed to be the center of it all and comes off as an afterthought.

And.

"don't want the audience focusing on the rules of time travel in your show" YEAH. CAUSE IT'S GARBAGE. Maybe if he and the others had had more than a weekend (exaggeration, untrue statement) to work on how time travel works, we'd have something that didn't make me want to scream into a pillow for ten years.

WALDRON: All over our writer's room, our white boards were just covered in timelines. And it's just, "No, time travel works this way," "No, time travel works that way." That was the great challenge of our show, it was because the Time Variance Authority is an organization that literally manages and polices all of time, we had to define what time is to them and what time is in the MCU.

I think we can blame this disaster on the Russo brothers. ^

WALDRON: Those are all questions we had to ask and define for ourselves. I think that what's fun about the TVA is it takes something remarkable, like time travel, and really packages it in a very soulless, sort of bureaucratic way. That's what was exciting to me, as a writer, was to take something so magical and just make it utterly soulless. -- So what we have is a writer's room so focused on the TVA that Loki becomes a secondary concern and the lens from which we VIEW the TVA, and then it stops becoming Loki's series and starts to become the TVA's.

But no one seemed to realize this.

And also "That's what was exciting to me...was to take something so magical and make it utterly soulless" is a GREAT way to go about time travel. I also think he applies this to everything and it shows.

So again. Writer focused on the TVA. Appears to me to not care about Loki. Spends a majority of the interview discussing ANYTHING but the main lead of his show. Does not want to talk about growth or character or WHERE LOKI CAME FROM? WHY ARE YOU NOT TALKING ABOUT YOUR LEAD?

But that's okay. Because we all know that the TVA was the main character of Loki, don't we?

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Another interesting point, I thought, was how Waldron writes relationships. I watched a review of his TV series Heels, where the reviewer came to this conclusion about the main characters:

"...And that's just what made this show so fascinating, is that…all these characters, that in some way, treat each other horribly, but in other sense do care about each other, and they're all so entwined with trying to make this thing work."

and that sounded extremely familiar. Because this is the cast of Loki. Waldron seems to have discovered his Character Formula.

Thanks. I hate it.

I just...this man can't have been a bad writer in just Loki right, and this has to be a consistent theme across all his work? And honestly, he's worked on so little that I don't know. I can't have an honest opinion of him. From what he has worked on, terrible character chemistry seems to be the general vibe. Waldron does not seem to know how to write characters that you understand why they like each other.

Hence, Loki being abused by every figure of authority in Loki, and Slyive treating him horribly, but somehow they all like each other in the end.

Because that's Loki. The TVA series, Loki on the side, getting beat up. Because he's bad.

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DR. STRANGE 2:

Dr. Strange 2 has a similar set of problems. It was written in a rushed time frame, there was no overarching idea for a plot and where the story needed to go, Waldron was just told to do what he wanted, and Waldron didn't seem to be too focused on character arcs.

Wanda, obviously, takes a devastating hit as far as arcs go, but I wouldn't say that Dr. Strange was spared, either. The two of them go through rapid flipflopping in terms of the growth they've incurred throughout the entire MCU, and it shows. Badly.

One thing that Waldron did say that absolutely baffled me was this:

WALDRON: I became good friends with Jac Schaeffer, head writer of WandaVision, while I was writing Loki. Her and I became good pals, because we were kind of in it together and everything...So, I had the benefit of just being able to call Jac and talk to her about Wanda's character and everything, because it was really important to me that I do right by her with what she did with Wanda as a character. And also, with Lizzie, who's a friend of mine. I really worked with her and made sure, "Okay, you guys just did this incredibly intimate show about this character that grew her so much. Let's make sure that we're doing that justice and telling a fulfilling next chapter of that story."

I am so confused. Waldron honestly appears to want to do right by Wanda, but Wanda's growth from WandaVision was destroyed in Dr Strange 2 (and I want to emphasize here that Waldron made no such comment about talking to Tom Hid. or previous directors of Thor movies) so then how did Wanda end up going through such a downward spiral? Waldron wanted to do right by her, and yet???

I think the biggest problem is that Waldron doesn't have to think long term. He's almost not supposed to. He said this:

WALDRON: Well, I think one of the joys of being a writer in the Marvel world is getting to make terrible messes and leave them for your predecessors

WALDRON: For instance, you write the Loki show and then you end up writing Dr. Strange 2, having to clean up your own mess and that can be a lot of fun.

WALDRON: And it will naturally connect to the MCU and it will naturally get the MCU to where it's supposed to go, in some ways that we expect and ways that sometimes you don't expect, and I think that's part of the fun.

Waldron was given the explicit instruction to write a good Dr. Strange movie, but not a good MCU movie. Part of the reason that Phase 4 feels like a bunch of puzzle pieces from different puzzles is that it was designed to be that way. Feige is just going with the flow to see what will happen rather than having any sort of idea of where to take the series.

"It will naturally get MCU to where it's supposed to go" is one of the most hilarious statements I've ever heard, by the way. As someone who has done original writing, and planned out a series, my 200+ page document of planning, background, and worldbuilding laughs at you. (And I still don't have it all finished, because I've had MONTHS to work on this). Maybe. Maybe they want to try and not publish the first draft of phase 4?

Waldron wasn't told to make a movie about Wanda, or how to progress Wanda's character in a way that made sense post her growth. And any problems that were there they blamed on the Darkhold, because it's someone else's problem to clean up. Very neat. Very good planning.

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So overall, I don't think that MCU writers are proud of their ignorance, I just don't think that they see a problem with it. Writers are told to do what they want to, without there being any plans for character growth or plot advancement, so they do. They put whatever they want out on the sandbox and wait for someone else to clean it up.

Feige seems fully onboard with this plan. So the real problem, I think, is the fact that MCU is expecting writers to come up with complex, interconnected plots in twenty weeks, and the writer's don't have the time to write consistent character arcs, they just tell a flashy story because at least you get something out there.

I honestly don't imagine Secret Wars will be any different. Waldron has shown that he really really enjoys writing stories, but not characters. This is not to say that we should blame all of this on Waldron, because I don't think it's really his fault. I think it's more the fact that he's the byproduct of a system set to fail.

The writer's ignorance is someone else's problem in MCU, apparently. But don't worry. This will naturally get MCU where it's supposed to go. Just tilt your head and squint a little. Then close one eye. And then the other. Now you can see what brilliance Phase 4 is clearly.

#anti michael waldron #michael waldron #anon #answered #i apologize for my thesis #mcu #mcu meta #waldron #anti waldron #anti mcu #mcu critical

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