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unofferable-fic · 2 years

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“You’re just annoyed that your personal headcanon isn’t canon!”

Or; my personal thoughts (ranting) about the Loki series and its surrounding toxic discourse.

First of all, I’m going to preface this with the following: whether you loved or hated the Loki series, or you fall somewhere in between, your opinion is valid and if anyone tells you that you can’t express that in a critical manner, then they need to kindly go away. I should also mention the obvious which most people understand — death threats directed at anyone involved in making the series is disgusting and if you do so you’re fucking deluded.

Now that that’s out of the way…

I’m someone who wasn’t overly fond of the series in the end. I went in surprisingly hopeful after enjoying Wandavision and TFATWS. For the most part I really enjoyed the first 3 episodes (episode 3 being the best imo) but I found myself quickly disillusioned by how the narrative seemed to fall apart in terms of cohesiveness. Keeping it short and sweet, I feel like a lot of the relationships (whether platonic or otherwise) were rushed. I found Loki’d dynamic with both Mobius and Sylvie to be confusing, unbelievable, and all around not earned. It feels as though they had a start point and an end point (ie. Loki needs a genuine friend) but we didn’t see any of the journey in between to show how the relationship developed. The quote “after all this time…” in episode 6 sent me over. Like Loki pls you’ve known this woman for max two days or something… No, I’m not salty because he didn’t end up with Mobius. No, I’m not salty because of “selfcest”. I’m salty because I don’t think the relationships were done as well as they could have been. Also, even though no one asked, Loki x therapy is the only ship I give a rats about.

Other points include the following:

Loki felt more like a side character with little impact on the events in his own show.

Sylvie sometimes teeters into Mary-Sue territory, and at times appears to be valued only because she is a woman.

Mobius’ relationship with Loki seems inherently toxic and he is not his therapist. As someone who regularly attends therapy sessions, if your therapist ever talks to you like Mobius talks to Loki — get a new goddamn therapist, Jesus Christ…

In my opinion, the show explores very little of Loki’s character and what makes him tick, especially considering this is post-Avengers 2012 Loki. I’m aware there were only six episodes and I’m not expecting everything to be crammed in, but where Loki was in Thor 1 and the Avengers seems so disconnected from where he is in the series. It seems to portray him as someone hellbent on power and ruling, as opposed to someone desperate for respect and the love of his family/people.

But I digress, the real point of this post was to tell certain people to feck off. Obviously there’s going to be discourse around the series, but I’m starting to get really sick of one side telling the other “you put your personal headcanons on Loki”, “he’s not your character”, “you’re just annoyed because canon didn’t go how you wanted”, “you’re projecting your own abuse on him”, blah blah blah. And here was me thinking the discourse around Ragnarok was bad, but this is another level, lads.

Here’s an idea, how about people who liked the show stop acting like those who didn’t just pulled their opinion on Loki right out of their own ass? All I know is that every opinion I’ve ever formed on him was based on the first three films he appeared in. That’s it — nothing made up because I love to project as someone who went through similar shit to him.

Discuss the show, but don’t be a massive bellend about it.

In summary, Tom Hiddleston I am free next Saturday if you are free next Saturday and I’ll buy all the rounds of Jameson you need while we talk about Loki and how he — no matter what happens to him within the MCU from here on out — will always be one of favourite characters to grace the big screen.

(Anyway who cares what I think, people are just going to call me a whiny Loki apologist regardless.)

#loki #me saying shit #loki series #loki season one #loki show spoilers #anti loki series #anti loki show #found this in my drafts #and never posted idk why #so here you’s go lmao #Loki show discourse #tom hiddleston #loki series negativity

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jimintomystery · 6 months

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Wow

On Monday, Marvel put out a new Loki trailer, previewing the final two episodes of the season. The trailer briefly shows Mobius living out a normal life, presumably as he did before he was recruited into the Time Variance Authority.

Since then the Loki fandom, famed for its carefully considered reactions, has gone from debating whether Mobius is married/divorced/widowed to wondering if Mobius is secretly Thor. (Or Balder.) This is all based on approximately three seconds in a trailer for two episodes.

Apparently word got around that Mobius's real name is "Don," which could make him Don Blake. In the comics, Don Blake was the human alter ego of Thor. (Or Balder, in the other comics. This is confusing.) I have absolutely no idea how anyone decided Mobius is named "Don" in the first place. It's the same kind of logic that gave us "Someone said 'the devil' in WandaVision, so Mephisto is the next Thanos."

At issue here is, as usual, Lokius. If Mobius has a family life outside the TVA, you see, then he might not be willing or able to consummate his fanon romance with Loki. Or, if he's somehow a variant of Loki's adoptive brother, it would get real awkward for Lokius shippers who have insisted that it's wrong to pair Loki up with Sylvie because they ought to have more of a sibling dynamic. (Loki, who once fucked a horse, could not be reached for comment.)

Anyway, the next episode of Loki drops later tonight, and there's doom and gloom in the fandom about the possibility that Lokius has been Thorki all along. I've already seen someone denounce this "twist" as homophobia and queerbaiting. Because, you see, Disney deliberately designed this show to get fans to infer an mlm relationship, and now Disney is going to dick around with said relationship just to spite those fans, which wouldn't increase their profits by one cent, but for some reason they're bound and determined to do it anyway? I need to lie down.

#loki #loki series #loki show #loki season 2 #loki season 2 mid-season trailer mini-continuity #fight! super robot lifeform loki: robots in disguise (2015 cartoon)#lokius #shipping discourse #fandom wank

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sylvies-kablooie · 7 months

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i hope we are better people now than in 2021

not to revive dead discourse but i just want to put it out there that they way the internet treated sophia dimartino during s1 of loki was cruel and if i see any of that going on again this time around i will block no questions asked. you are not "cool" for posting horrific harassment to the people behind a show you didn't like.

#this is as close as i will ever get to discourse but yeah #i can't speak to what was going on in tumblrland #but on twitter it was vile #and i hope those people are ashamed of themselves #tried to end her career over ANYTHING #because what? you didn't like tv show?#groundbreaking.#you know what normal people do when they don't like tv show #they TURN IT OFF #it was always the people hiding behind the piccrew pfps #GET A HOBBY KISS A GIRL LEAVE HER ALONE #loki tv show #loki series #loki tv #sylvie #sylvie laufeydottir #loki s2 #loki show #loki

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lokiusly · 5 months

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extremely telling that people who don’t like Loki s2 are mostly people who didn’t get the sy*ki romance that they wanted

#idc s2 was god tier it was great #this isn’t a discourse post don’t #lokius #loki show #mobius #loki season 2 #loki x mobius #loki spoilers #mcu loki #mobius m mobius #loki laufeyson #loki

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worstloki · 6 months

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oh god oh please not odin it's just a matter of time until frigga is here too

Upcoming discourse where people argue it’s more moral to bang a variant of your adoptee father than a girl version of yourself/your brother from another timeline

#I still think sylvie is a Thor variant but if she isn’t I’ll cover both bases #‘sylki is incest’ CHECKMATE. everyone can go home now #no moral high ground #this is how shipping discourse should go #the Loki show

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lokiified · 8 months

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listen man i understand the dislike for sylvie, i can get behind that. but i will forever defend loki’s character in the tv show. yes, he’s very very different and the change can feel drastic, but i think realizing that:

- the love and acceptance you always longed for from your family was there the whole time

- your own “glorious purpose” never existed

- you willingly die at the hands of your greatest fear

- the things you thought were the greatest powers in the universe (infinity stones) are being used as paperweights by a society that is in control of time as you know it

- your choices have never been your own,

would kind of change your perspective of yourself and those around you, and maybe make you act a little differently.

have whatever opinions you want, but that’s just my 2 cents on it

#loki #loki tv show #loki discourse #loki disney+#loki marvel #marvel #mcu #marvel cinematic universe #loki laufeyson #loki odinson #loki season 2 #mcu loki #loki trailer

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lokidanger · 4 months

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I will forever curse the MCU for calling their universe 616.

#old discourse but god it still bothers me #616 is comics not mcu #ffs #I don't wanna go into loki 616 tag to see the show shit that's why I have tags blocked #marvel 616 #marvel 19999 #I'll start tagging mcu loki as loki 19999 as it should be #lokidanger rambling

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murderballadeer · 5 months

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sorry this is the least relatable series of options on earth

#don’t listen to panic at the disco. didn’t watch the loki show. everything i know about dream i learned against my will.#never engaged with homestuck. don’t care abt cartoon discourse #don’t care much abt specific celebrities.#don’t care abt ai #dont hate furries bc like they’re not hurting anyone they’re just vibing so good for them #and i don’t do discourse on other peoples posts bc i am an adult and i know how to use the original post button #soapbox

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musclesandhammering · 7 months

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Me: Loki’s had such a sad life, he deserves to be loved.

Person: That’s ok, he’s got Sylvie now 🥹✨💕

Me: 😒🙄

Other Person: That’s ok, he’s got Mobius now 🥹✨💕

Me: 😒🙄

Person 3: That’s ok, he’s got a new family now 🥹

Me: 🥹🥹🥹

#found family over romance every single time #I don’t wanna hear about how he and sylvie are soulmates and he cares about her more than the entire universe 🤢#I don’t wanna hear about how Mobius is the only person to love him unconditionally & he’s Loki’s new glorious purpose 🤢#can we stop making every single gd bit of his character development about romance please #I promise you guys that is SO not the point #it’s about redemption and change and growth and healing but y’all would rather the entire show be about who he made googoo eyes at #shipping discourse #shipping wank #anti lokius #anti sylki #antisylki #loki series criticism #loki series #loki

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nerdby · 7 months

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If Loki knowing about the Infinity Stones in the television series has been tripping you up, please go back and rewatch the first Avengers movie--

In the first Avengers film, Loki had two Infinity Stones in his possession while battling the Avengers. One of them is the space stone which was encased in the tesseract and the other was the mind stone which was encased in Loki's staff. The mind stone was given to Loki by Thanos because Thanos knew it would aid him in making Loki betray Thor and try to take over Earth. This is because the mind stone acting as a drug that would allow Thanos to control Loki's thoughts and actions.

Because, like it or not, Loki is not stronger than an Infinity Stone.

So if you're confused about how TVA!Loki knows about the Infinity Stones, the answer is simple--

Thanos told Loki about the Infinity Stone in his staff and about the other Stones in the first Avengers movie, but also failed to mention the effect the stone would have on Loki himself. So TVA!Loki would NOT have needed to live through the events of any of the post-2012 MCU films to know of the Stones' existence.

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mysticcollectionbee · 1 year

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Coolest not most Powerful

I don't mean most powerful (enough people have talked about it), I mean the one you think was the coolest done. For me, I like it when magic functions like an extension of the wielder's personality and character. Hence, Loki being my favorite despite how little we've seen it used: He's the only one who's magic can be described as being only his. And it reflects his personality well; Sneaky, flashy, but also can be subtle and dangerous. It comes off as innate part of who he is. Wanda's my second favorite: It doesn't come off as casual and more like just a weapon or tool but it's again unique and only her's. Strange's my least favorite because it's somehow seems less unique than even Wong's use of the same magic (For Example, War Machine is basically like Iron Man but it still has enough to make it's own armor). But what about you? Do you care more about visuals? Use?

#marvel mcu #loki show #loki #scarlet witch #wanda maximov #dr strange #stephen strange #wong #magic #mcu discourse

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jimintomystery · 6 months

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@sunflowerdigs replied to your post “Wow”:

It wouldn't be to spite queer fans (though it would do that). It would reassure straight viewers that Lokius could never happen. It would be classic queerbaiting, really. Rope in queer viewers with subtext, but then appeal to the straight majority audience that Marvel actually wants once D+ has its subscription money. It's definitely not unheard of. The panic based on unsubstantiated rumors is silly but the distrust of a major franchise isn't.

For what it's worth, I'm willing to believe some media has intentionally queerbaited its audience. The problem is that all I've read about the topic relies on anecdotal evidence: "I expected this queer ship to be endgame, but then it wasn't, so those awful producers must have tricked me." If there's an interview or something, where somebody in the industry admitted to using queerbaiting as an actual strategy to increase viewership, then I'd be very interested in reading that. But even then, I'm skeptical that the strategy works at scale, or that Disney would bother employing it on Loki.

The motive for queerbaiting, as you've laid out, is to "rope in queer viewers" without alienating homophobic viewers, to maximize total viewership and therefore profits. That seems plausible for a show on the CW that's subsisting on a deeply hardcore audience. It makes less sense on a major streaming service that owns Star Wars, the Simpsons, and all the Marvel superheroes and all the Disney princesses. Disney+ doesn't have to do some intricate balancing act to play two opposing audiences against one another in a single show. For one thing, Loki is a spinoff of a billion-dollar movie. For another, if Disney just wanted to maximize profits, they would have used their Loki budget to make Iron Man vs. Darth Vader instead.

So I think it's fair to say Disney already has a stranglehold on "the straight majority audience that Marvel actually wants." That's not to say they wouldn't go the extra mile to string along queer subscribers as well. But if that was the play for Loki, they kinda gave away the game two years ago, when Sylvie kissed Loki, and the fandom denounced the show for queerbaiting. Why bait your queer viewers, and then chase them off before the second season? Granted, a lot of Lokius shippers weren't chased off, although a great many of them expect to be queerbaited some more. At this point the bait analogy falls apart--the fisherman crafts the perfect lure, but then tries to scare away all the fish, except the ones who would jump straight into the boat without any incentive at all.

Again, I'm willing to keep an open mind about this stuff. But from what I've seen so far, if the Loki showrunners are queerbaiting, they're doing a shit job of it, for an audience that sees right through the trick and pays to watch anyway, which makes the bait a complete waste of effort. It makes no sense. So it's easier to buy the alternative--nobody was trying to deceive the Lokius shippers, and they played themselves.

#loki #loki series #loki show #loki season 2 #lokius #loki american style #shipping discourse #to be clear i'd be fine with lokius happening #it's a perfectly good ship #the show just never made me think it'll be canon #maybe i'll be wrong

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cjrae · 2 years

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The HMS Sylki? Or; Why I Like It, But I Don’t Ship It.

It’s hard to throw a rock at the MCU fandom without hitting someone who adores the character of Loki, as played by Tom Hiddleston. And with good reason - Loki is one of the best characters of the Infinity Saga due to the fact that he is morally grey. He is capable of villainy, but also heroism and he swings back and forth between those two poles as he works through the trauma of his childhood and stunted development.

In the Infinity Saga, we know where this leads - he’s grown just enough to recognize that he wants more than validation through rulership before Thanos cuts all of that potential growth off with his brutal execution, further punctuating the tragedy that is Loki’s fate; his death, just like his life, is used to temper Thor into a hero that will rise to the challenge at hand.

Spoilers are under the cut.

Loki

And then came his first chance to be in the spotlight. In an instant, Loki is ripped away from everything that has defined him - his narcissistic family unit and his role within it, his costume, even his name as he’s often simply referred to as “Variant”. He’s stripped down to his bare essentials and asked to answer the question, “What makes Loki tick?”

This is a question the first season goes back to again and again as Loki is forced into a brutal version of therapy - first confronting his life and his “fate,” which makes him realize that he’s been stripped of agency his entire life. He’s desperately flailing for control when he has never had any, and it has made him cruel in a bid for attention and love. It is the classic setup for narcissistic behavior patterns and it leads to Loki’s greatest fear - being completely and utterly alone.

Sylvie

Sylvie is a version of Loki that could have been - what if the God of Mischief had instead been a Goddess? Well, for one, it’s a bit depressing to realize how much better Odin treated an adopted daughter than a son; Sylvie knew she’d been adopted, she was securely attached to her parents and her people. The scene where she’s arrested by the TVA, she is playing make-believe with herself cast in the role of hero.

That role of Sylvie as hero and warrior is exactly what is projected to not just Loki, but also the audience as we get to know her, her mission and just what motivates her. It’s difficult to argue that Sylvie isn’t the hero of the piece through Episode 6. The TVA believes that the ends justify the means and that any actions they take are justified if it preserves the Sacred Timeline. If that leaves a little girl orphaned and homeless just before you’re preparing to sentence her to be reset in front of a judge who clearly has no care for the fact that this is a child who is not responsible for how she was born, then so be it.

She also displays many of the traits that we’ve identified with the various superheroes of the MCU - she’s self-disciplined, she has a mission, she’s in the right and she knows it. She’s determined to give the entire universe their free will back!

A Narcissistic Romance?

Here’s the crux of what we’re watching; Loki’s journey of learning to love himself in a healthy manner. One of the luxuries of narrative is that we’re able to externalize that story so that the audience can see Loki’s internal state. Because here’s the thing - most narcissists never change, because they have to understand that something is wrong first.

(Side note; I think this is a huge part of Loki’s appeal, and a dangerous piece of it. There are people who look at Loki’s story and fantasize about ‘fixing’ him by being the ones to show him unconditional love, when the crux of the story is about Loki recognizing the need and gaining the agency to start fixing himself).

Loki, however, has had his Infinity Saga growth put on fast-forward and then smacked over the head with it. He knows something is wrong and then he is shown a version of himself that embodies everything he thinks he needs to be in order to address his insecurities.

In the Void, when Kid Loki looks at him and says “You’re different,” Loki immediately demurs. No, he’s not different, but Sylvie is. Sylvie is Loki as Loki thinks he should be. Sylvie is a hero - in a sense, she is the Idealized Version of Loki.

Unfortunately, we all know what happens when you put someone on a pedestal. Sylvie is vulnerable to the same flaws as Loki - she feels cheated out of What Should Have Been. Only, instead of a crown (and the love of her father) she was cheated out of her right to grow up surrounded by her loving family - and her reaction to that injustice is the same as Loki’s; all consuming rage. She will achieve what she believes she deserves - revenge - regardless of the cost to anyone else around her.

This is what makes her betrayal of Loki so heartbreaking. He tells her the truth, with all the benefit of having his story on fast forward - Loki has grown enough to know that killing He Who Remains isn’t going to fix Sylvie’s pain any more than ruling would finally make him happy. Sylvie just shared her ability to enchant with Loki, reassuring him that he was capable of performing it as well because “we’re the same.”

But when she pushes him away, she denies that connection.

Season 2′s Core Story (Or My Theory, At Least)

So, if the central story of Season 1 was Loki learning a healthier self-love that wasn’t dependent on the approval of his father or besting Thor, then we segue nicely into the next phase of Loki’s healing, which should also address how he will self-regulate his emotions going forth:

How do you forgive yourself after you’ve f***ed up?

Whether or not Sylvie’s decision was actually the wrong one or not is a separate essay - but suffice it to say that on a personal level, she completely and utterly f***ed up and she may have on a cosmic level as well.

But learning to forgive yourself in the wake of mistakes is vital to Loki’s continued growth as a character - so much of his story has been how he’s consumed by his self-hatred that he projects onto others because he is unable to process his emotions on his own. But at the end of Season 1 his worst fear has come true. He’s utterly and completely alone for the first time in his life - there will be no one to project them onto. He won’t even be able to attempt to rule the TVA, a go-to strategy when he’s stressed - because Kang has pretty throughly beaten him to the punch.

If he doesn’t need to ally with Sylvie again to deal with the story of Season 2, I will be shocked because it will give the writers an opportunity to have Loki actively working through how to be angry, empathize and eventually forgive, without being destructive in the process. (Because he is not going to have time or emotional space to both deal with the ramifications of Season 1′s end and indulge in old patterns - one will have to give way to the other.

Not Boarding The HMS Sylki

I think I’ve made a pretty long-winded explanation of why I like the relationship between Loki and Sylvie and why I think it works on a character level. That doesn’t mean I ship it, however.

Some relationships come into our lives and are not meant to be permanent, long-term romantic relationships that end with commitment and families. Sylvie and Loki’s relationship is, as I’ve said before, an externalized view of what is happening within Loki himself. Eventually, however, he is going to need to internalize what this relationship is teaching him and when he does, it will be over. (And the same for Sylvie, honestly - Loki has as much to teach her as she does him).

But learning healthy self-love, as opposed to stunted, conditional love, is what will allow Loki to keep letting go of the narcissism that has shaped his life until now and stunted every other relationship in his life. And that foundation is what will give him the potential to actually step into a more heroic role within the MCU going forward, with the more complex and nuanced understanding that people are just that - people. No one is perfectly virtuous and no one is purely evil, hero or villain.

Especially not Loki.

#loki #loki tv show #mcu #meta #essay #character analysis #sylvie #sylki #sylki discourse #sylki kiss #long text post

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loreisathirstyhoe · 10 months

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Lmao listen some of y’all shipping hobie and pavitr are the same fuckers who hated sylvie/Loki cause its “incest.”

🧍‍♀️

You see the hypocrisy.. right? To clarify I’m ship neutral. Ship what you want they’re fictional. But like you’re gonna tell mcu execs to kill themselves and then ship two variants of Spider-Man?

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goodtimeswithyourdad · 2 years

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Not to talk about year-old mcu discourse of all things but im thinking about Sylki again because of last reblog and just. That ship was kinda iffy for reasons that actually mattered but selfcest, a completely fictional concept, was what everyone got their panties in a twist about for some fucking reason

#and like i get that selfcest being canon is like. kinda different from just random fandom shipping #but like. come on #god the loki show discourse was so stupid it's the only fandom drama that's really stuck with me it makes me so mad still

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verysium · 2 months

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I’ve been seeing some discourse around twitter about the blue lock boys and whether they’d be a loyal bf or not 😭 Curious to know who do you think would be more inclined to cheat or who just wouldn’t at all!!!

I saw someone say sae would 100% cheat like whattt I feel like he wouldn’t even bother looking at anyone else if he already has someone (Cuz I mean dating him would likely mean you actually mean something to him) but I digress

ok anon you had me pulling up a whole argumentative essay here cus WHO TF SAID SAE WOULD 100% CHEAT??? 😔 that mischaracterization is so painfully inaccurate. twitter really took the whole emotionally unavailable itoshi archetype and ran with it. let me just clear the air here because my man deserves some explanation.

sae itoshi would not cheat. as in capital N and capital O. he took nearly an entire decade off his life just to work on his own issues and finally form a functional and healthy relationship with another human being. and you're telling me he's just going to let all that wash down the drain for someone else? 😒 twitter logic really be showing its illogical side here. apparently a man can be loyal to a professional sports career for eighteen years, but he can't be loyal to his significant other.

i think this misunderstanding probably happened cus of shidou. people read the manga and saw that sae dropped rin for a bug-eyed freak and automatically assumed he was disloyal. 😑 let me just say two things here:

(1) sae and shidou's relationship is strictly professional. imagine being stuck in an god awful corporate office with coworkers who bore you with their weaponized incompetence and a boss who annoys the living shit out of you. and then one day, the company hires a new recruit who is probably the most unhinged and debauched creature known to man. you're probably left wondering how he even got hired in the first place. but then you find out...he's useful. he takes risks and gets a high return on what he invests. it's impulsive and stupid, really. but at least it's unconventional and outside-the-box. he has your interest piqued. that's basically sae and shidou in a nutshell.

(2) just because sae gave shidou his number after the u-20 game does NOT mean he would do the same to any other person who would try to encroach on your relationship. and let's be real here. sae would get one text from shidou and block his contact.

anyways, here is my analysis on the bllk boys in general. introducing the anti-cheating to pro-cheating spectrum:

(A) cannot cheat under any circumstance (as in they already hate the fact that they live on a planet with 8.1 billion other people who are not you):

itoshi brothers (atp they don't even have the physical or mental capacity to entertain a third party), ness, reo

(B) cannot cheat due to physical incapability (literally cannot pull anyone within a five-meter radius to cheat with):

ego, igarashi, raichi, bachira (not that he's in any way unattractive...it's just...i feel like he would purposefully act weird to drive off people who aren't you)

(C) could not cheat (basically option A and B but less problematic version)

yukimiya, barou, kunigami, noa, loki, gagamaru, chigiri, niko, hiori, karasu (baby boy literally felt inferior cus his crush was the cutest in his class), kurona (head empty, just you)

(D) would not cheat (on you but everyone else is not included)

isagi (unintentionally a homewrecker to others but would never let anyone homewreck his relationship with you), leonardo (idk why but i just don't trust him entirely)

(E) could cheat (depends on what they get out of it):

kaiser, shidou (honestly what did you expect when you willingly dated a blonde man...)

(F) would cheat (either proven by canon or they accidentally fucked up somehow):

otoya, oliver, nagi

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