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#of course also talking about bruce
adamshallperish · 13 days
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mutuals y'all better be talking about me like this in the nursing home i swear to god
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dickheadcanons · 24 days
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sorry for the vent, but nothing annoys me more than people who don't read the comics because they claim they don't want to read inconsistent characterization. Just say you're too attached to the fandom versions of the characters! You don't want to find out what they are actually like!! Being inconsistent with what you like is not the same as being inconsistent!
Because, at the end of the day, these people don't know if the stories are inconsistent because they don't actually know the characters, they haven't read the context, and they don't know how the events in the story came to be. These characters have been around for decades. They've "done" almost everything under the sun. If someone's only heard a laundry list of things they've done (usually told by a pretty biased 3rd party, myself included) then of course the actions are going to sound inconsistent. The connecting tissue of how they got from point A to point B is the entire point of a story.
I think this urks me so much because it’s always couched in this haughty, "it's impossible to read all of the comics and they’re not good enough to try" language, which for one thing, is just such a dismissive attitude of something they claim to love. But the other thing is that, so often, these people love to talk or write about specific comic events. If all they're writing about is the batfam going for a day at Disneyland, then yeah, they don't need to read anything. But if they're specifically writing a fic to address, like...Tim and Jason's fight at Titans Tower, or Bruce's return from the timestream, especially in a “fix-it” framing, and they can't be bothered to read the *40 pages of pictures where that happens*....what is this manufactured outrage? Are they just trying to be angry about something that never happened? Are they so obsessed with the canon being wrong that they can't give the thing they're mad at a chance to be right?
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boyfridged · 1 year
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You may have already mentioned this in some of your other metas, and I just missed it, so please ignore this if it's redundant.
Do you think Bruce is projecting onto Jason by pushing him as a Robin? Obviously, Jason wanted to be Robin and was excited about it, and Bruce let Jason do other things, but (if I'm not mistaken) before Tim came into play, solidifying the whole Batman needs a Robin/support to keep him upright, Bruce and Dick becoming Batman and Robin, in the beginning, was also sort of a coping mechanism.
I think there are a few examples of Bruce enabling this kind of mindset. Like in Gotham Knights #43–44 (sorry), every time Barbara brings up Jason's inner turmoil, Bruce refocuses on his ability as a Robin; similarly, when Jason finds out about Two-Face and his dad, he is hurt, and Bruce acknowledges that but then does the same thing, zeroing in on reassuring Jason that he made a mistake but is still a good Robin.
Like, Jason got it from Bruce, but he unintentionally encouraged that kind of thinking.
oh, i definitely think that bruce is projecting on jason and that it profoundly affected jay. and, while every single one of your observations is apt, i would add that what truly made it so tragic is that he projected his own worst traits on jason while being blind to the fact that jay already shared his best qualities.
tldr: bruce projects himself on jason in terms of grief (saying that jason needs vigilantism to work his grief through) and sees his own worst traits in jason (anger) but doesn't see his own best traits in jay (compassion, love, and sensitivity). ironically, jason does end up developing all of the (projected) worst characteristics of bruce (obsessiveness, and relentlessness in pursuit of the respective perceived idea of justice). this happens even though they were barely present in his early storylines, and only ever manifested when jason was scared or lost. later, they truly came to be because of his trauma relating to vigilantism.
and the long, long version, coming with panels and quotes: under the cut.
first i want to say that the following analysis focuses very specifically on bruce's mistakes, but i don't view the overall of jay's upbringing by bruce solely in these terms. from text it is also clear that bruce deeply loves and cares about jay, and that jay enjoys being robin. now that this is clear, let's get to particularities, and start with jay's origin story.
i truly never stop thinking about the significance of bruce meeting jay in the crime alley, the place of his parents' death. there's a lot to be said about it, but here the focus is, of course, on the fact that he sees a little boy, very much similar to himself, angry and hurt, in the same scenery that brought him so much grief. and jay in some ways does appear to be a mirror of bruce's own agonies, as well as a mirror of his own inclination for seeking justice; and somehow, bruce fixates on the first one, while almost completely dismissing the latter.
bruce looks at him and assumes that the remedy to jason's pain and anger is being robin; and he doesn't stop to think about it. (it has to be noted that there's also classism at play, classism that is mostly a result of writers' own beliefs – collins did state in a couple of interviews that that the motivation behind jason's background was to make his introduction into vigilantism seem less offensive, as jason has already been exposed to crime...)
i think, in this context, it's interesting to look at the two-face storyline even closer, and from the start too. in the beginning, bruce talks of jason's 'street' roots and assumes jay would go "down the same criminal road that took his father [willis] to an early death." he also talks of jason making a lot of progress. later, in batman #411, after jason learns that willis has been killed by two-face, bruce comments that jay "has never been like this...listless...almost pouting--"
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this all, along with jay's cheerful and diligent behaviour from the previous issue builds an interesting picture for us: because we essentially learn that jay has been overall an unproblematic child. bruce, of course, attributes this "progress" to the training. however, for anyone else, the logical conclusion would be that jay's quick adjustment was simply a matter of finding himself in a safe and stable environment and receiving continuous support and attention from a parental figure. i find it rather questionable that jason's personality softened down because he had something to punch in the cave–– the more intuitive explanation is of course that he was angry and quick to fight when they first met because he couldn't afford anything else and because he was scared. but months later, in a loving home, he can allow himself to drop his guard; and his cocky attitude disappears until much later.
so the rather unsettling picture that we derive is that bruce is training jay to become a vigilante in order to "channel" his (nonvisible at this point) anger into something useful and just. and he clearly links this to his own trauma in batman #416 (that’s already starlin btw), in his conversation with dick, explaining why he took jay in: “he’s so full of anger and frustration… he reminds me of myself, just after my parents were killed.” bruce also mentions that soon after their first meeting, jason helped him and "handled himself well" in the fight, but he doesn't mention that jay has ran away from a crime "school" and intended to stop injustice on his own only because he was ignored.
the theme of bruce comparing jay to himself appears again in detective comics #574 (barr), where it is approached with a much more... critical look, thanks to leslie's presence and her skepticism of bruce's actions. after jason has suffered nearly fatal injuries at the hand of the mad hatter, bruce reminisces on his own trauma and motives. he tells leslie: "i didn't choose jason for my work. he was chosen by it...as i was chosen." leslie replies: "stop that! (...) you do this for yourself... you're still that little boy (...)" then, the conversation steers to the familiar ground and the topic of anger. in bruce's words, again: “i wanted to give jason an outlet for his rage…wanted him to expunge his anger and get on with his life…” and finishes "and instead, i may have killed him."
the recognition that bruce's projection on jason and involving him with his work might have fatal consequences is, as always, fast forgotten once jay wakes up and proclaims that he wants to continue his work as robin.
but to circle back, i think there's something else worth our attention, something deeply ironic, that is showcased in that issue: that bruce has no evidence for jay's "rage." when leslie talks of bruce's past, she recalls his tendencies to get into brutal fights at perceived injustice as early as in school; when bruce talks of jason, two pictures that are juxtaposed, are that of jason fighting as robin and jason... smiling, playing baseball.
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so, in the early days of jason's training and work in the field, we see bruce talking of jason's anger a lot; but we barely see it.
that being said, jay is angry sometimes– and i think your observation about how bruce deals with it is incredibly interesting and accurate.
we first see jay truly and devastatingly angry in the two-face storyline. bruce focuses on jay's reaction as robin, which is, in fact, aggressive. but something that he barely addresses is that jason's first reaction is sleeping all day, and not beating anyone to a pulp; in fact, this vengeful instinct seems to arise only when he is put right in front of two-face. and his third instinct, once the rage (very quickly) dies down after the altercation with two-face, is crying, because bruce hid the truth about willis' death from him. jay, while crying, asks bruce: "you have taken me out into combat-- but you spare me this?" in response, bruce lectures jason about how grief inspires revenge, which is, again, deeply ironic, given that jay seeking out revenge seemed to be prompted and enabled solely by the role of robin. moreover, his question suggests that at this point he saw grief ("you spare me this") and fighting as two different things.
the final is, as you said, bruce focusing on making it into a lesson on vigilantism, or, in his own words, "tempering revenge into justice." personally, i think in this way bruce directs jason to bring his grief into the field as a powering force, something that he didn't necessarily have an own incentive to do. the flash of compartmentalisation between his ordinary life and being a sidekick that jay has shown by questioning bruce's decision is lost. emotions are now a robin thing, and they have an (informal) protocol, a moral code. and when jay is confronted with an emotionally exhausting case next – the garzonas case, i believe that the focus on "tempering revenge into justice" is exactly the problem– we don't see jay crying, we see him frantic about finding the solution. this, right there, is bruce's obsessiveness, that in my opinion, was developed in jay specifically as a result of how his engagement with vigilantism combines with his deep sensitivity.
and, needless to say, his sensitivity is all the same as that of bruce – they both can't stand looking at other people hurting, they both wear their hearts on their sleeve, caring way too much – the thing is, bruce never quite acknowledges how they are similar in this matter. instead, he focuses on his sparse bursts of anger, wanting to bring jason closure in his grief the only way he knows it – in a fight for a better world. so, as you said, he focuses on jason's ability as robin.
which just doesn't work for jason. at all. we know it from how his robin run comes to an end: in the first issue of a death in the family (batman #426) alfred informs: “i’ve come upon him, several times, looking at that battered old photograph of his mother and father, crying.”  to that, bruce contends: “in other words, i may have started jason as robin before he had a chance to come to grips with his parents deaths.” he also tells jay that the field is not a place for someone who is hurting; a message that is the opposite of what he's been saying for years now, and something that i imagine was difficult for bruce to conceptualise, because then he would have to question his own unhealthy tendencies. it's a bit late to come to this realisation; bruce's self-projection that caused him to worry so much about jay's anger has already turned into a self-fulfilling prophecy that will fully manifest itself in utrh, when jason does the only thing he was taught to do with grief: try to channel it into justice.
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martyrbat · 5 months
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detective comics #509
[ID: Bruce Wayne sleeping in his penthouse, his eyes squeezed shut as the narration reads, ‘Gordon's strained laugh sounds hollow, but it echos in the Batman's mind... and haunts his dreams...” Bruce awakens to a hand on his shoulder and before he can think, he's twisting it and holding it down. The panel expands, revealing the hand belongs to Alfred as he's almost toppling over! He cries out, “M-master Bruce—my arm!” as Bruce groggily realizes who it is. He lets go at once as Alfred moves to the end of the bed and holds his arm while stammering an apology, “S-sorry, s-sir... Sorry if I startled you.” Bruce looks at him with aghast as he cries out, “My god, Alfred—I almost broke your arm!” Alfred reasons, “You must have been having a nightmare, sir.” as Bruce sits up and puts his face in his hands. He weepily dismisses, “A nightmare—what kind of an excuse is that? Old friend... forgive me...” Alfred reassures, “Nothing to forgive, sir. Just bad nerves, sir.” END ID]
#THIS ONE !!!!#bruce and his neverending guilt complex#just immediately regretful and so apologetic as alfred is quick to reassure and dismiss it#holding his arm because of fucking course it still hurts but when bruce lifts his head he stops ....#always thinking of how he was a caretaker for bruce since he was a small child/infant and how many little things bruce does now will remind#alfred of those days#he likes his grilled cheese q certain way. he cries if he thinks he hurt someone. he blames himself for a lot. he gets bad nightmares#like so much has stayed the same as so much continues to change but the love and care thry have for each other is always there#(<- guy who is always number one in bruce is disabled and needs a caretaker but also in how the people around him know bruce loves and cares#about them. its not about not being loved its about how heavy his love is and how bruce will subconsciously use his love to harm himself#(from blaming himself to his parents murders and jason's future death to something as simple as this and how he'll beat himself up#for hurting alfred and not able to protect him as well from himself)#(like his mental illness is forever using his stupid bleeding heart against himself as a reason for why hes awful)#this is all fully sidetracked im just fucking wired today sorry lol#but while im talking and something more related to the panel itself::#after this line bruce looks up and says ‘the batman suffering from bad nerves? lets hope not. gordon can worry about the election but i#cannot afford to. still its not just the campaign. lately so many other things are pressuring me—mostly as bruce wayne’#and like !!!!#it wasn't about batman! it wasnt about his burdens and responsibilities!! alfred was telling HIM. BRUCE. that its okay#and bruce automatically ‘its not because batman cant behave like this’ like !!!!#batman is the priority in the sense of he thinks he needs it to protect people. even his family even alfred and every single stranger#he won't ever allow himself any grace even while sleeping because batman cannot afford those ‘slips’#just GOD 70s/80s batman makes me insane for forever and ever amen#c: detective comics | i: 509#crypt's panels#bruce wayne#alfred pennyworth#alfred & bruce#‘awake or asleep—it scarcely matters anymore. the nightmare never seems to end.’#<- nightmare bruce tag <333
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magentagalaxies · 1 month
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also idk why that last post reminded me of one of my favorite bellini fun facts which he shared in the podcast he co-hosted with scott back in like 2013 which is that he never played "rock, paper, scissors" until he was in his late 40s??? like he'd never learned how to and he was like "if i saw someone doing that i would leave a room. i don't need an extra thing to learn today" honestly king behaviour
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abyssal-ali · 11 months
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Working on my Burned my Wings epilogue (Dami POV) and I suddenly had a beautiful crack idea. Talia adopts Jason and Dami gets a big brother, right?
(In another universe thats not the BMW-verse): When Damian goes to Gotham, he gets two/three big brothers and 3 big sisters. Adoption is just how he obtains siblings. He was too little to have the birds and bees talk at the League, and the Bats see him as a baby (he is) so he never gets any Talk (even when he gets older. He is still Baby.)
Basically, he believes in the stork-- except the stork is adoption/your parent bringing home a random child and going "meet your new sibling".
Shenanigans of some sort ensue.
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navree · 8 months
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called it last episode that something about the invasion was zod related, glad to know that it's basically zod and brainiac working together in tandem and that they're likely to be the big overarching threats
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un-pearable · 8 months
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oh yeah saw blue beetle last night and one million thumbs up. going into having heard it’s very tokusatsu and comic booky made it one million times better. goofy and stupid in fun ways. i’m so glad we’ve looped back around to comic book movies being like comic books: confusing chronologically and catered to fans willing to put up with wildly specific nonsense. also heck of a great job making a movie about gentrification and colonization out of the chaos of blue beetle lore and corporate blandification i genuinely had fun
#like it’s not the BEST done story about gentrification and colonization. but it’s a very interesting attempt at doing one in the dc universe#also ADORED how they did ted’s old tech i love love love that it was chronologically accurate and cheesy in the best way#of COURSE his tech is outdated he was a superhero TWENTY-THIRTY YEARS AGO!!#when mcu stuff went back in time they just retconned it to be cool futuristic sci-fi stuff too. i ADORE the idea that a) there WERE#superheroes in the last and b) time still passes! them being there shaped the world and influences the superheroes we have now!!#and SO glad to see DC finally capitalizing on their legacy heroes <- the one thing that stands them out from marvel#yeah this was a mediocre movie to the average fan. i think comic book movies should be. fuck blockbuster everyone movies#cbms should be wildly specific and about characters no one’s ever heard of to tell fun stories with them#also love the minimal level of integration with the rest of the dc movie verse#jaime went to gotham university and there was that one name drop of bruce wayne in an ad but SO happy no obnoxious cameos.#this is just another corner of the universe! it’s a coherent WORLD but that doesn’t mean the same individuals need to show up everywhere.#loved it. i know it’s not a great movie but i had so much fun from the moment i saw the intro talking about actual lore#it was 100x improved by what i already knew about jaime reyes and i know that’s a bad thing for non-aware viewers but fuck it. stop catering#to the audience that refuses to read comic books or put up with their tropes. cater to the people who are already here and love it#thank youuuuuuuuuuuu <3 also give people from the cultures superheroes represent more money to tell those superheroes stories . it’s great
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himbeaux-on-ice · 2 years
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torn between the desire to make a vgk primer for the benefit of those who will be following brendan brisson to the team this year so they can know who’s who on the roster and what the narratives are and whatnot. versus the gut feeling that i may not be able to accomplish this without getting EXTREMELY passive-aggressive about various Decisions management has made in a way that actively makes the primer less useful lmao
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batgeance · 8 months
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something that makes me “white cat screaming gif” is the number of times that bruce is described as kind by different people across different batman mediums
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daydreamerdrew · 9 months
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The Hulk! (1978) #27
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drunk-on-starlight · 1 year
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"Is Bruce Wayne abusive" is sidestepping the actually interesting question of "why don't the writers see those actions as abusive."
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tims-missing-spleen · 1 month
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I remember seeing someone say that Bruce wouldn't deny the Batman allegations. Like he will proudly tell everyone he is most definitely the Batman whenever he's asked, and it would actually do wonders with keeping the secret hidden.
Like it would be more suspicious than anything if billionaire playboy Brucie Wayne so adamantly denied any connection to the vigilante.
And yeah, so i was thinking what would his kids think about it? like they get asked during interviews and whatnot what they think about their dad being Batman.
I feel like Dick would just play along and say some shit like "if B is Batman, then I'm Nightwing" and get a look from the man
And Jason would take any opportunity to shit on B and say something along the lines of "B's Batman? I call bullshit. He's not even a man"
Tim would either:
a. pull up a 99 slided presentation about how Bruce Wayne is, in fact, NOT Batman and be internally laughing the whole time cause he is funny, and people just dont know what they're talking about.
Or b. (only when he's been up for a few days) confirm it and go "Well yes, of course he is. It'd be weird if he wasn't since the cave's under the house."
Cassandra would just smile and stare into the person's soul until they move on onto the next question.
Steph would deny it and claim that she's Batman and that Bruce is her Robin. She'd probably also manage to convince a few people to join her.
Duke would be like "He's Batman? Ohhh that explains the explosives I found in the cellar!" or something else, just as worrying.
Damian would just nod and go into a full length speech about how Batman is the best superhero (after Nightwing of course) and completely disregard the question. And before anyone can re-ask, he'd just walk off.
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martyrbat · 1 year
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the more i think about it the more i want the justice league to play dnd and for bruce to be a freakishly good dungeon master
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magentagalaxies · 15 hours
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girl help how do i prioritize (not actually asking for advice just ranting). i have a performance tomorrow that's technically part of my final but also the Events of the last week on campus it's technically optional. but that being said i really want to be memorized for that performance and put the time in to make it really good bc even if it isn't graded it's still an opportunity for me to test out new aubrey material (and i'm definitely gonna film it and send it to bellini). i have to turn in a "final" for my independent study which is just my way to get credit for the buddy cole doc, but that final is editing a ten minute piece out of my tour footage and because of the Events i think i will get more grace if it's not a great edit but i need to turn something in by wednesday. i have a final for my history class that's just a presentation and i've already made the powerpoint and researched so i'm confident i can improvise (it's fairly low stakes) BUT i still have to do a quiz for my history class that was due last week but i somehow missed and i haven't been able to get to it bc stressed about finals and also the Events but since it was assigned before the Events i don't think i'll get the same grace as post-Events assignments, and this quiz is worth like 10% of my grade so i need to turn something in like even tho i currently have an A in that class and Cs get degrees i still don't know what grade i'll get on my final so better safe than get a zero on the quiz but i have no motivation since it's not a final like the rest of my stuff (even if the aubrey thing is lowkey not graded??? even before the Events that class had a unique grading system so i already know i've got an A in that class regardless this is just like an optional showcase). and i also have a zoom with bruce tomorrow for the buddy cole doc which i'm very excited for but also will have to plan around the amount of hours in the day i have left to get things done lmao
anyway it's wild being in finals week bc half of me is like "i just wanna go hoooome alreadyyyy" but the other half is like "holy fuck there is too much to do i need an extra week to get it all done"
but anyway less than a week from today i'm gonna be done with my penultimate semester of college (graduating in december!!!) and i have literally zero plans for the months of may and june rn so like. i know i'm going to get incredibly bored super quickly but like one of my favorite inspirational quotes is that tumblr post that was like "in two weeks you will have different problems" and yeah that sure is true
#i remember some people on that post being like ''that's not comforting the problems are endless''#but i saw that quote for the first time when i was like 12 days away from my production of other girls and SUPER stressed#so i was like. yeah that's actually a great thought i'm still gonna have to do things in 2 weeks but it won't be what i'm working on rn#anyway i am also obviously grateful for most of the things making me busy of course#bc like. my finals are literally performing my favorite new aubrey monologue i've written in the past few months#and i have to rewatch a bunch of scott tour footage for the independent study video#and like i remember just a year ago getting to zoom with bruce was such an event it would be the most important part of my day#and all i could talk about for weeks leading up to it#and obviously i'm still super excited to get to talk to bruce the only negative thing is how busy i am with everything else#and having to do time-management factoring in my classes alongside the zoom#also when i refer to the Events that has to do with like the protests happening on campus etc.#like my college has been in the news lately for some shit#and like. yes it's a very important issue and it's really altered the climate on campus and added to everyone's anxieties#however i do NOT want to talk about it. like i support the cause but for the sake of my own mental health i will only talk about it as much#as referring to it vaguely like i did in the post.#anyway i should sleep i have a 10am class tomorrow that i might have to present my final in
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nightwolf14292 · 1 month
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Bruce acts so emo all the time that I just can't help but enjoy the idea(/headcanon, I guess) of him secretly just being an old man dad- Like all of the villains go 'Omg it's Batman we're gonna get beat up' and Commissioner Gordon randomly thinks to himself while working late 'I bet Batman is doing super smart stuff like looking at case files or serving justice rn' but it turns out Bruce is just in the Batcave, very seriously talking to the Bat-Computer about the definition of slang like "Okay 'Puter, define 'Yeet' for me.."
Or he's up at 3AM scrolling through Tim's Tumblr blog looking for ways to connect with his child, but instead becomes mildly concerned when he sees Tim posted a pic five minutes ago of himself at Waffle House (He thought he was in his bedroom-?) with the caption 'Lmao just had a mental breakdown ✌'
Bruce: "So, Damian.. Have you 'rizzed up' any 'level ten gyatts' recently?"
Damian(Also doesn't know slang): "Father wtf"
Of course all of the Bat-Kids know this, and try to subtly introduce him to different memes because he always looks so proud of himself when he properly uses slang, he's like 'Heck yeah my kids are gonna think I'm cool'
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