#i have at least seen as many posts about canon ships where i'm just like “what the fuck are you on about did we even see the same show?”
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when someone says they only ship canon pairings i'm like "oh wow, i'm so sorry :( is there anything i can do to help?"
#imagine never knowing the joy of ur ship being in the same shot as each other and one of them looks at the other and maybe smiles#the excitement when they touch and they didn't really have to touch at that point but they did touch and now you know they're in love#also hot take(?) but even with canon pairings people interpret and just make shit up out of whole cloth so it's kind of the same anyway#i have at least seen as many posts about canon ships where i'm just like “what the fuck are you on about did we even see the same show?”#the shipping forecast
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The ways in which being asexual feels isolating
I've been pondering whether to post this or not, but I figured out I wanted to explain a bit of this experience.
So, I could go on a very long tangent on how being asexual is usually a lonely experience, and how much I've been otherized here and there- Specially in real life. How the same people that claimed to be queer (or allies) had been much weirder about my asexuality than they were about me being bi/pan or whatever.
But I think I wanna talk about how something like that bleeds in every aspect of socializing, even down to something like fandom. I stay away from fandom usually- I like to look at cool fanart and that's about it. I hate discourse, I hate drama, I hate reading people getting worked up because they're treating fanon as canon. But there's one thing I've noticed, over and over, that just sends me off my rails.
And it's how fandom tends to treat asexuality (or aromanticism). So, you get a character in some piece of media that explicitly, unequivocally, states they're either ace, aro, or both. "I do not have interest in a partner", "I don't desire to have sex nor do I enjoy the topic", whatever. And as an ace person, I do appreciate being able to see myself in media- There isn't many chases where something is established that bluntly.
Now, you decide you want to check some fanart for that. Fandoms have this tendency to make absolutely everything about shipping, even when the media they're basing it in does not revolve about that (and it's annoying, because a lot of times people aren't interested in the actual themes- It's all reduced to shipping). Suddenly, you notice people treating the aforementioned character as anything but aro or ace. It's all about shipping. "This person interacted with this other person in a way two friends would, but we gotta make this their entire personality now". Some people may instead go for "well, maybe the character is not having sex, but they're probably an absolute freak about it, studies it extensively, has encyclopedic knowledge about it-"
Now, there's of course sex-favourable aces, and that's completely valid, but it's already straying from what, canonically, the character had mentioned. Asexual or aromantic characters aren't really allowed to exist as themselves. People often see them as a blank slate to fill, to change, to fix. I could talk forever about how people react to real life aces like that. I've had people asking me incredibly invasive questions because they saw my lack of sexual attraction as something broken, something they could fix.
And I hate that! I think I'm allowed to say that I hate that! It's hard and unusual for media to cement an aro/ace character, because they're defined by the lack of interest for something, which is often hard to show. But when it does- No one seems to care. It's all shipping, it's all "well, he's gay in denial", "well, she's probably super repressed". If you took a canonically gay character and made them straight on a fanfic, you'd get angry people. Which is bound to happen when you erase representation that people identify with. But aro/ace characters are NOT even seen as queer, they're not even seen as "representation" by most people. You can erase that bit of it, put some god awful shipping on top, and people will applaud you. And it sucks!
I wish people would see being aro or ace as an identity worth respecting, not an identity that needs overwriting. It feels a bit too close to how people often treat aro/aces irl, and it sucks. It reeks of this sort of exclusionism, where "aro/aces are technically queer but it's queer lite at best, it's less interesting than being gay, and we kinda don't want them near us anyhow". Again, I've had far worse experiences about being ace than I have about not being straight.
Sorry if the post got long, but I hope this experience may at least resonate with other people who have been struggling with this, too. It has always felt just kind of lonely to be ace, and see how little people do even consider it an identity, even when it comes down to something like fandom.
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So, while I am a passionate Elriel and my experience is only further cemented with each new detail on every re-read, I have still stated since day one that I still love Lucien and Gwyn! My first ever Tumblr post was a dissertation on Lucien for goodness sake!
And this is where I struggle. I don't personally lurk in anti posts, but they make their way to my eyeballs anyways. And my problem is that myself, and many Elriel's I know, still love all the characters and honor and fully believe they will have their own stories, potentially their own POVs in future books or at the very least play a large role in ACOTAR or the multiverse.
But the a/ti Elriel's, from what I've seen, are almost ALWAYS a/ti Elain. I won't bother going over the comments I get on tiktok from E/ucien shippers that claim they like Elain. They erase her. They misunderstand her. They minimize her. They sideline her. They invent villain storylines. And still ship her with their favorite male character? Just because they want *him* to have his mate. And Azriel is apparently bio hazard waste in all areas of life EXCEPT if he decides to go after Gwyn. Whereas I like Azriel as he is, and I like who he currently wants to be with.
The author, I am certain, also likes these characters. She wrote them. It's difficult to believe her intention was for the fans to turn on Azriel just because a reveal many of us saw coming (that he is down bad for Elain) happened.
I don't have to erase Gwyn from the narrative, or distort her interactions with Azriel, minimize Gwyn's importance, create a shitty personality for her or invent a new storyline to make Elriel make sense.
I don't have to erase Lucien from the narrative, distort his interactions with Elain, call him toxic, minimize his importance, or invent a new storyline for Elriel to make sense.
I personally can't wait to see what Lucien and Gwyn are going to bring to the story. But by and large, I mostly see Gwyn as being a sidekick to Azriel and Nesta instead of the lead of her own story or Elain as a sidekick to the Band of Exiles instead of the lead of her own story for G/ynriel and E/ucien theories to come together. Beyond that, I'd love to look into their stories more, but I'm tired of assaulting my eyeballs with all the toxic sludge about pelvises and pure hatred from Elain festering in those spaces.
So I'll say it again and I'll say it a million times, just because Azriel and Elain want each other and not Lucien and Gwyn does NOT mean I think Lucien and Gwyn are trash. I just want the characters who want each other to be together. If it were written differently, I would feel differently. And if antis would at least address that Azriel and Elain WANT each other instead of trying to explain away their behavior and invent false intentions and narratives, I'd have a lot more fun reading and exploring their theories.
I'm an Elain girl first and foremost. And I want her to have what she wants. As of right now, today, waking up in Prythian, that is Azriel. That is the only thing on page. Anything else is speculation or theorizing. Azriel and Elain wanting each other is not a theory. It's real. Erasing it is not only bizarre, but makes any statement coming after it really not credible.
I ship a ton of non canon couples in other fandoms. Many of them never came to pass. It's just for fun. But because the hatred for Elain is so visceral, and the desire to erase her character from existence is so real, these ships are not fun. And I genuinely wish they were.
The awful bullying and atrocious behavior and weird hatred for the books and characters in this fandom gets me down some days. Sorry for the wallowing. Love you all 😘
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I was shown a post this morning (I think it was from Tumblr, but I'm not 100% sure) where someone asked if maybe something was LOST IN TRANSLATION because so many Gwynriel shippers aren't native English speakers.
Now...
I'm going to give this person the benefit of the doubt and believe that they truly don't mean anything negative by the question, even though the implications are... harmful to say the least.
Here's the deal, guys.
There are Gwynriel shippers all around the world because there are ACOTAR readers all around the world. The ship is not localized to a region or a language.
When people read books, the words on the page send a message. Sometimes, if we're super casual readers, the messaging is limited or we don't read a ton into it. For other readers who choose to delve deep into how the author writes to try to understand what might come next, it is obviously a bigger investment.
But at the end of the day, we all read the SAME BOOK (and bonus content) and those words made us all feel different ways. Made us want or predict different things. And that's all well and good. The problem comes up when we try to explain why we feel the way that we do.
I'm an engineer. Even though I enjoy creative writing and art, my brain is practical. I like having evidence. I like being able to identify trends and make an educated prediction based on them. As someone who ships Gwynriel, I have never denied that there are canonical moments where Azriel and Elain have some level of... something. On page. It would be ignorant of me to say that those moments don't exist. However, for the most part FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN, when a Gwynriel shipper tries to use canonical evidence to support their ship -- WHICH EXISTS -- it's a constant barrage of 'that's not what that means' or 'how could you read that romantically?' or 'Gwyn is just a side character'. And then there are the blatant hypocrisies, like how Azriel saving Elain from Hybern is romantic but Azriel saving Gwyn at Sangravah should never be mentioned ever again.
I guess what this long-winded ramble is trying to say is that there's nothing lost in translation. We've read the same story, and we believe Gwynriel makes sense. We lean on canon and trends in the author's style to support the ship, and then we headcanon the hell out of it, because fandom is supposed to be fun like that. Some people read the story and believe that Elriel makes sense, and that's perfectly fine. But don't come at a Gwynriel shipper, attacking their textual evidence with your headcanon that Elain was barely existed in ACOSF bc she was apparently training to be a spy and she and Azriel were falling in love completely off-page with nothing to show for it.
And don't you dare make an implication so blatantly out of bounds like blaming it on some strange translation error that somehow miraculously makes Gwynriel makes sense, but only if it's not in English. Like... give me a break. And... think about what you're saying. For A SINGLE MOMENT.
#I'm just so tired#this is so dumb#read what you like#ship who you want#enjoy fanwork for your ship#and scroll past fanwork that isn't for your ship#gwynriel#fandom#sjm fandom#fandom ships#fandom fuckery#fandom bullshit#acotar#acosf#sarah j maas#sjm#acotar fandom
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The pitfalls of every Sunny ship
Diving straight into the hot coals with the first post. But it has been on my mind lately.
The setup in Omori is naturally quite mentally (and in some cases physically) taxing on every main cast character, and a shipper can very easily be overenthusiastic about getting a "happy ending" for their preferred pair, glossing over inconvenient problems and dynamics. I think that it really is rather contrary to the game's themes that this occurs, but it is also understandable that not everybody does a full psychoanalysis of every plot point in their story. I'll list some "common" problems I've personally encountered with people making content about sunburn, suntan and sunflower. I'm more familiar with the dynamics common on ao3 than elsewhere, so if you have any other observations or things to add, please feel free to do so.
# OMORI SPOILERS BELOW #
Sunburn
The "canon" ship. The fact that the ship is explicitly mentioned in game means that the ship is viewed as the "default", and it can lead to some lazy dynamics or lack of justification. You have to remember that no matter what headspace says (and headspace says a lot of things that aren't true), the first thing Sunny and Aubrey did after four years is beat the shit out of each other. Sunny knows nothing about the Hooligans, even though we do, and Aubrey thinks Sunny abandoned her (which is a feeling unlikely to abate after the truth). There needs to be basis for the ship as well - they aren't going to just pick up where they left off (presuming they had anything to leave off in the first place) right away. Which leads us to the first common problem:
Basing the relationship entirely on the past
This is the default reaction and requires the least writing creativity, so it is not surprising that it is common. Simply porting the HS dynamic or the swing scene to the future and copy-pasting is fun and cute and all, but it ignores the fact that both Sunny and Aubrey have changed massively. There's a lot of guilt that is going around, both with Sunny for obvious reasons and Aubrey for pushing Basil in the lake, and Aubrey has a bunch of new, closer friends whom depending on your interpretation are either theatre kids or delinquents. This is not really just going to get talked away on the swing set - they involve third parties.
I would venture to argue that this is actually a very problematic pitfall, despite it being generally not a very serious transgression in real life. Omori, as a game, is about moving on from the past. If you write a fic where the characters forget about bad things in the past but hang on like hell to the good things... that's Headspace. You've just put Sunny in a new Headspace.
Getting Basil out of the way
Even among sunburn/suntan shippers, it is pretty generally accepted that Basil was somewhat attached to Sunny even before the accident. So if you don't want to do sunflower, how do you deal with that?
You can write angst, where Aubrey and Basil end up fighting over Sunny. Weirdly, I've never seen this actually happen (probably because it's too heartbreaking). You can have Basil go to therapy, and get rid of an unhealthy attachment. You can also go the seriously angsty route of Basil hating Sunny for abandonment, Sunny hating Basil for his role in the incident, or a less intense version which just puts a barrier between the two. You can also have Sunny reject Basil. Or you can argue that the attachment was platonic, which is entirely fair.
What you cannot do is have Basil be romantically interested in Sunny, but "get out of the way" for Aubrey "so that Sunny can be happy". Or, well, you can do that, but you can't frame it as anything but serious angst from Basil's POV.
Unfortunately, many, many "pure fluff" Sunburn fics do this, because "pure fluff" fics don't want to untangle the whole thing as most methods involve some degree of emotional turnmoil. This is no ordinary infautation - Basil has waited for Sunny for four years. Nursing unrequited love like that is really, really painful. It is certainly not something that someone with Basil's character and history can do with a smile on their face. If you need any further convincing, I point you to Note to Self: Don't Be Gay in Faraway Town by witheredahlia.
A version of this which I think is a lesser sin (because it is at least framed with some nuance), but a sin regardless, is Aubrey getting annoyed at Basil for "stealing" Sunny's attention from her. This gets dangerously close to the reddit comments you see about "the friend group will be better off if Basil never joined".
Suntan
Despite sunburn being the "canon" and sunflower being the natural alternative, I actually think that this is the default. After all, Kel was the one to bring Sunny out, generally saving his life, and is his first friend, etc. Kel is also a clean slate character, with nothing anyone can particularly hold against them, and as a result suntan is the "healthiest", "least questionable" ship. This commits the customary mistake of believing Kel's parents when they say "eh, it's Kel, he'll be fine".
"Kel's fine"
No, he's not. He's spent the better part of four years trying to forget the happiest times of his childhood, and has been going around doing nothing but fixing and saving other people, putting others' needs far above his own, for the entirety of pre-canon and foreseeably for a good part of post canon as well. Suntan, especially with Sunny still in a vulnerable state post-canon, can very easily be written into Kel being Sunny's unpaid, untrained therapist, and his mood/health being Kel's only/majority source of validation. Kel's self-worth independent of his friends needs addressing and development, and without a lot of development, Sunny alone is not really equipped to provide that.
In all fairness, while I would be somewhat confident in saying that the majority of canon-compliant sunburn fics run into the problems above, suntan fics do usually handle it better. That might just be because there aren't that many suntan fics though.
Sunflower
It goes without saying that sunflower has the highest potential to be unhealthy. But precisely because of that fact, people writing sunflower are usually very careful to address it. Either the fic is written as a work exploring codependency/attachment/trauma/other general unhealthiness (which you can make your own judgement on whether it's a legitimate art form or problematic), or there is at minimum an attempt at pacing, therapy and general juggling of the various mental issues the game leaves Sunny and Basil with (for a shining example, see These Days Without You by Smitty1899, my go to answer for when anyone says "but sunflower toxic!!1!").
The issues that can make sunflower unhealthy and problematic are generally pretty obvious - shared crime, codependency and attachment, commitment and abandonment issues, and the whole "getting together before their friends forgive them" thing (which can still be done well, but from the POV of especially Hero can be kind of eh, and unlikely to be conducive to a healthy relationship given that it kind of depends on their friends' pending "approval".) As a result, there aren't a lot of works that don't address them in one manner or another. However, I do think there is one major pitfall that some fics fall into in the other direction:
Having everything in the relationship be dependent on someone else's approval.
In an attempt to make sunflower as healthy as possible, some authors make it so that Sunny and Basil effectively never make decisions on their own. There's always a third party present to psychoanalyse them, tell them what's fine and what's not, etc. and every step they make in their relationship is with the express blessing, support and help of the rest of their friends. The problem is, that's not healthy either.
I feel that the value of sunflower is greatest in the context of the themes of the game of moving on and forgiveness. Making it so that Sunny and Basil hang on to their guilt forever and robbing them of any "right" to decide for themselves what makes them happy is very much contrary to that - they're on crutches for the rest of their lives, and the point of the good ending is the hope that they won't need to be. It also is just not a good thing for any third party to intervene so extensively in a relationship.
Conclusion
Omori is emotionally deep, with many, many themes to explore. Ships in Omori have unique meanings and themes, which in a canon compliant context is quite hard to simply wipe away. Rushing into a ship with insufficient pacing and development, which works in "cute" fandoms, generally leaves lots of outstanding holes in Omori.
This post doesn't necessarily mean that I think less of any particular ship mentioned - to reiterate, every ship has unique meanings and themes which is interesting to explore and form a part of the message of the game. It is however true that some pitfalls in some ships are easier to fall in, and overlooked, than others, and the obvious problems get a lot more bashing than the non-obvious ones. (Yes, sunflower bias. Sue me.)
And of course, in a plotless or AU context, cute art is cute art.
#omori#omori sunny#omori basil#omori aubrey#omori kel#omori sunflower#omori sunburn#omori suntan#brainrot.txt#rant post
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Davesport is Toxic NOT abusive
(((WARNING: PRETTY LONG POST UNDER THE CUT.))) I've seen some people making the claims that Davesport is comship/proship (ok well i've more seen people bitching about it) and im tired of the Davesport slander so this will be an analysis of their relationship.
My motive isn't to force anyone to ship it or anything- i really dont care what you do with your life, my frustration is just when people try to make up REASONS why they don't like the ship, even though its literally canon (and not badly written).
My main point is -- You can hate what you want. You don't need a reason, and it doesn't need to be bad just because you don't like it. But I will not take any slander on their ship nor any slander of people who like davesport.
Davesport is absolutely toxic-- No DSAF fan would disagree. They are literally child murderers with little to no souls and literally are physically disfigured to the point they don't have the capacity to feel proper humanity anymore. You cant expect 2 men who live their lives willingly murdering and then partying in vegas to celebrate on repeat to be gentle and kind to themselves or anyone else.
However, its NOT abusive.
I've seen multiple people (mostly from twitter screenshots) claim that Davesport is abusive or the way people portray it is in a fetishy or romanticizing way of abuse, when that's just not the case. I don't blame a lot of people, since a lot of it comes from reading context and intent of the artist, which not everyone is good at-- BUT I'm here to assure you that MOST people don't intend to do that much and just like to portray how their dynamic is canonically like or portray Daves obsession with Jack.
Another argument I've seen (by a twitter screenshot...) is that people are comshipping Davesport because people draw Jack annoyed a lot at Dave when...thats not true? That's just Jack's personality, first off:
(From the Dave x Reader fanfic by Directdoggo)
"Jack is a bastardman not very touchy-feely. We can see this in many scenes, where Dave more or less says “I love you” and Jack responds with deflecting humour, or outright scorn. When Dave says it for the final time, this time, Jack tries to say it back, but can’t outright, only getting out: “Why is this so hard?” and “I hope you can find peace with what you’ve done.” Which Dave understood the meaning of. (Hey, better than Henry (LEGACY Jack) hearing “I love you” and proceeding to tear Dave limb from limb, huh?"
(Directdoggo describing Jack's personality)
I know it can be a little confusing to some people, but as someone who struggles with similar issues, just because he struggles to express intimately doesn't mean he can't love anything. Sometimes people are just different and communicating like that doesn't come as easily, even to the people you're closest to.
To make it as easy as possible to comprehend-- He's quite literally a tsundere. (Minus the exaggerated ridiculousness in anime) He loves Dave, he just cant bring himself to say or act like it. The dismissiveness or rudeness in response to Dave's affection is not abuse, it's just a defensive response since he doesn't know how to say it back. (His way of being "shy") -- Also note its important that Dave UNDERSTANDS this about him by that point.
However Jack isn't the only thing I've seen regarding the claims that their ship is abusive-- and to debunk all of those I'm going to explain the three points that keep Davesport from being abusive, and I'll use Henry x Dave (which is what I'll call it to prevent it getting confused for FNAF willry) as an example alongside it since its super obvious why that one is messed up.
Firstly, They are both bad people.
By this point, Dave and Jack are murderers. It's just not surprising that they will be willing to kill each other at at least some point, considering they are willing to kill 5 year olds without remorse- and they'll both deserve it. It's only their own faults that they teamed up with the other, and it's meant to be the ultimate irony when Jack becomes even worse than Dave by "An ending".
My point is- they're bad people. It's not like they're owed perfect company or would choose wholesome people to hang out with when they're literally both child murderers.
Dave wasn't evil and didn't want to kill by the time he teamed up with Henry (and even after it was Henry's fault), so by that point his suffering was absolutely undeserved.
Secondly, They're lacking any specific power dynamic.
Unlike Henry and Dave- whom have several levels of "Age, Father figure, and Employer", the most important one is that Henry is Dave's abuser. He manipulated him and purposefully harmed him both mentally and physically, whereas Dave never had any intention of doing either because Dave loved him and didn't want to lose him (because he had nobody else)
This obviously much different with Dave and Jack, whom other than being taller and several years older than (which you can argue their 6 year age gap is weird but they didnt get to know each other till they were both older than 30 so by that point age difference doesnt rlly matter and (also theyre "mentally" like 24 and 22 canonically anyways (as much as I usually hate that argument)) Other then that they are only co-workers. This is a bit more arguable during DSAF 1, where Dave comes across more threatening and comes across like he's manipulating Jack, but I don't exactly count that because I wouldn't say theyre "shippable" or in their "situationship*" by that point (but also because them even being a ship was barely considered by the creator at that point obviously)-- whereas Dave is certainly more easily recognized as sincere to Jack in DSAF 2. Jack also is not someone who is afraid to defend himself against Dave, as shown by the fact he's willing to call out Dave's ridiculous behaviors (which is reasonable of him to do).
(Also from the Dave x reader fanfic) (I just think this specific screenshot debunks any sort of "power dynamic" claim)
My Third and Final point: There is a CHOICE involved
I haven't really done much Dave defense in this post, but his defense is very simple:
He is literally physically unable to comprehend guilt or conscience. Dave didn't want to murder anyone in the first place, but it was Henry who fucked with his (literal) head so much to the point he stopped being able to feel guilt. He doesn't care about murder and doing wrong because he CAN'T care. You can't really let that reflect Dave as a character when he's really not in control of himself in the first place.
Now with that, that doesn't change the fact he could certainly affect and hurt people, and it's fully up to Jack as to whether or not he wants to deal with this purple man's freakish life choices and hobbies or not.
And that's honestly super dependent on the ending you decide to base Jack on. Most people see the 'canon' endings to be:
Gnarly ending (DSAF 1) -> An ending (DSAF 2) -> Good ending (DSAF 3)
Where in all of these, Jack DOES choose to deal with Dave and basically is completely cool with murder. You don't have to follow those endings if you don't want to, but that's just typically what the modern "Davesport" is known for, but its what I'm using for my defense (considering this is a defense of both fandom and canon Davesport.)
Though as opposed with Henry and Dave- Dave had no choice. Henry only ever manipulated him into thinking he did, and Henry made sure to feed this whole 'we will be a family' ideal into Dave (who never had one) so that Dave would be terrified to lose him. Jack never manipulates Dave (when teamed up with him), and Dave never manipulates Jack (tho arguable in DSAF 1 as well). They stay with each other despite all of their issues, and I believe its due to some co-dependency (imo I think Jack is also obsessed with Dave just in a different way before DSAF 3)
Which isn't healthy, but not...inherently abusive.
I believe my main three points kind of cover the most of why I dont consider Davesport to be inherently a bad ship, but like I said- if you don't like it, none of that matters anyways. You dont NEED a reason to like something, and I wont try to convince you why you should ship something because I like it.
Just don't hate it just because of what someone else says-- 90% of the dsaf fandom aren't comshippers, and Davesport isn't gross or "toxic /neg" just because it's not healthy. I think "Don't fetishize/romanticize literal abuse like its normal or sexy" and "We should explore more complicated and unhealthy dynamics" can and SHOULD coincide with each other!!!!
I think Davesport is great because of how bittersweet it is that these two people finally found solace and acceptance in each other but couldn't get past the self-sabotaging nature of what Henry turned them both into, ultimately making it impossible to work out forever. I think embracing the Davesport makes the (kind of aged) trilogy a lot more enjoyable of an experience and I DO encourage any davesport skeptics to keep an open mind.
[Pretend I wrapped this up super nicely I can never do that--- Also this is open for conversation and/or debate, and also yada yada my bad if i said something randomly terrible I have extremely poor social skills lol let me know so I dont do it again yada yada]
*Also if anyone doesnt know a situationship is (at least in the context im using it in ive heard other definitions for it but its not a real word so i actually dont care) when 2(or more) people basically treat eachother like lovers but they never communicate this outright and dont technically officially date but like they treat and commit to eachother like a partner would)
(So its kind of what all those people who playfully flirt and call each other their spouses as a commited running joke are in)
#this might have gotten a little messy by the second half but i've spent so long on this the words have lost their meaning#could you believe this is my second draft#ill make a tldr...#dsaf#dayshift at freddy's#dave miller#jack kennedy#dayshift at freddy's 2#dsaf dave#dsaf dave miller#dsaf jack#old sport#dsaf old sport#dsaf william afton#dayshift at freddy's jack#dayshift at freddy's 3#dayshift at freddys
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What I love about the Goncharov meme is how willing most of us are to break kayfabe, because - on the surface level, it's kind, it gives people the opportunity to opt out if this just isn't good for them, and tells people - the secret is that there is no secret, that's the joke, hop right in with a "yes, and"; all are welcome. It's likely to confuse future media historians regardless.
But as someone who really enjoyed House of Leaves I also love it on a meta level because, we are essentially creating a spiritual adaptation of that book, blurring the line between meme and ARG...all based on a pair of shoes. It begs the question, then, what level of this layered narrative are we on, exactly?
I'm not the first person to compare Goncharov to The Navidson Record and I know I won't be the last. It's a very easy, obvious comparison to make - this legendary piece of lost media that everyone has an opinion on, but no one can confirm it's even real? Yeah, at this point in tumblr's collective consciousness, Goncharov is very much like that - the only difference being, we're on the same page and can agree that it's not real and never was.
Except we will place ourselves into a narrative such that it is real. It's an unspoken rule that even if you break kayfabe in other posts, even if you tag your Goncharov posts as "unreality" for accessibility (as you should, especially your original posts), you don't add to a Goncharov meta post, or fanfic, or fanart, in such a way as to even insinuate that Goncharov may not be a real movie. In this layer, that makes you the fool, the uncultured swine. Everyone's seen Goncharov! What do you mean you haven't even heard of it!? What do you mean you doubt it exists!? What rock have you been living under!? If someone earnestly asks what it is, it is to be answered elsewhere - in DMs, in an ask, over Discord, maybe in the replies, but not as an addition to the post that exists "in that reality".
There are a few things we tend to agree upon about Goncharov:
It is a work of fiction. The events of the movie did not occur in the universe - the narrative layer - where we discuss it as a real film.
As stated on the shoe label that created the meme, it is a film directed by Martin Scorsese, written by someone named Matteo JWHJ 0715 (sometimes also written as Matteo JWHJ0715 or Matteo jwhj0715), and it is a mafia movie - namely, it carries the lofty claim of being "The Greatest Mafia Movie Ever Made."
It is about the relationship between Russian and Italian mafia families, set in Naples.
This movie poster is the basis of the canon; the characters listed on it exist and are portrayed by the actors listed.
There is an additional character, Sofia, whose reasons for being omitted from the poster are unknown.
Katya and Goncharov are married; this likely at least started as merely a marriage of convenience, but the full nature of their relationship is hotly debated in a way that highlights many common views of tumblr shipping culture¹.
Katya eventually betrays Goncharov, leading to his death at the end of the film.
There is significant homoerotic subtext between Andrey/Goncharov and Katya/Sofia, much of which plays into the film's themes; however, contrary to the impressions often given by tumblr's fandom culture, it is all subtextual, and while the relationships between Andrey, Goncharov, Katya, and Sofia can be read as significant drivers of the plot, they are far from being the central focus of the story.
Clocks are a major recurring visual symbol.
There is a pivotal "boat scene".
Most other details, however, are left to whoever is currently "analyzing" it. For instance, while many on Archive Of Our Own agree that the character of "Ice Pick Joe" definitely died in the end, with "no beta we die like Ice Pick Joe" being a popular tag for Goncharov fanfiction, at least one early tumblr post implies that the character's fate is undetermined.
The Goncharov meme is simultaneously a love letter to tumblr's fan culture, and a scathing critique thereof², but one of the most underappreciated fascinating things about it is that it forms a nested narrative.
On the innermost layer, we have the unreachable - the film itself. No one has seen it. No one ever will. We're all just trying to imagine it from the shadows on the cave wall. Maybe one day we'll create it, but it will still never truly be the original 1973 film we're all writing about. Making it even harder to recreate and make "real", the mythology includes alternate cuts and regional edits to reconcile the plot points written by different users that undeniably contradict each other.
On the next layer outward, we have the posts about the film. The deep meta. The fanart. The fanfiction. The content "from another universe" where Goncharov is a real classic film that everyone has seen. The layer where we don't break kayfabe. This is a layer we can see the reality of, and contribute to, but never truly live in - it is an imaginary construct. Or is it? The film we're writing about may not exist, but the story we're weaving together from these roleplay writing exercises is somewhat coherent, and the thousands upon thousands of words of meta and fanfiction we write about it are real; one could make a compelling argument that even if Goncharov the film does not exist, the Goncharov fandom is a real fandom. This layer is one foot in the real world, and one foot in a fictional one.
On the next layer, we have the posts about the meme. This can be definitively stated to be real, with no caveats. Posts that discuss how the meme reflects on fan culture, about the self-referential nature of the meme, about the little aspects of online fandom culture it plays with. This is the first layer that can fully be said to be rooted exclusively in the real world.
But even on a layer beyond that, we have posts such as this one, discussing the discussion of the fandom for the fake film - and on yet another layer beyond that (or is it the same one?), we have the future speculation. We have guesses as to what future historians will think of this phenomenon. We have discussions of the precarious and transient nature of information online, questions about what parts of this meme will be archived and which ones will disappear. Will there be historians desperately searching for this alleged lost classic in 50 years? Will it be assumed that the shoes that started the meme were actually a piece of promotional merchandise for a real classic film?
You may notice, then, that the innermost layers are discrete, but once you get into the layers that exist in our reality, they become markedly less so.
This model gives us a structure that can be visualized somewhat like this:
[Image ID: a diagram of 5 concentric circles. The centermost circle is colored in dark red with a thick black outline and labeled "Goncharov (1973 film) - fictional, unreachable, unviewable". The next circle outward is colored in pink, with a thinner black outline, and is labeled "Goncharov fan discussion". The next circle is colored in light gold, with a black outline that blurs into the next circle, labeled "Discussion of the Goncharov fan discussion". The next layer is colored in light green, with a dark outline blurred so thoroughly that its only purpose is to provide some visual contrast for clarity of labeling, labeled "Discussion of all previous layers; note the blurring of the line between this layer and the previous". Finally, the outermost layer is colored in light blue, with a solid black outline, labeled "Speculation about the future's view of the Goncharov meme, including roleplay as lost media enthusiasts and media studies professors 50-100 years in the future". End ID.]
In fact, there are several rules the Goncharov meme has come to follow:
As stated above, any given post is constrained to its narrative layer, to the extent that those layers are discrete. Posts about Goncharov as a real film are not to have additions that break kayfabe. Similarly, posts about Goncharov as a meme are not to have anyone insist the film is real. This may be subject to change as the meme evolves, but it is the rule as of the time of this writing.
You may not add to a post to contradict a claim about the factual nature of what happened on screen, even if it directly contradicts a previous post of yours³. You are, however, encouraged to dispute its implications and get creative to try and reconcile the contradictions. The only exception is in the form of responding to a meme with another extant meme format (e.g., "I get what you're going for OP but x very much did y")
Posts about Goncharov the film are to be treated exactly the same way you would post about a real piece of media. Analysis is to be taken seriously, using real analytical frameworks and devices. Memes are to use real formats. Fanart and fanfiction are to have just as much effort put into their crafting as you would give any real piece of media.
Complaining about bad readings that do not exist, but you imagine someone might make, is encouraged.
You cannot break these rules. Not "you may not", but "you cannot". It is not possible. You can try. You will fail. Your posts breaking these rules will never gain traction, or if they do, they will do so only after being added to in order to make it fit them. The narrative is hungry. You cannot engage it without being absorbed into it. Your only escape is to walk away and not look back⁴.
In other words, the Goncharov meme is not just a meditation on fan culture, but a demonstration and discussion of the intricacy of the relationship between fiction and reality.
House of Leaves is beloved for its complex nested narrative, and again, the comparison is a common one. However, there is a subtle and potentially unsettling difference - House of Leaves did not include its author or its readers nearly as thoroughly as the Goncharov meme does. House of Leaves was written from outside the narrative; the legend of Goncharov is being written from within.
Every single person who blogs about Goncharov makes themself into a character in this story.
The narrative layers in House of Leaves bleed into each other to give a sense of mystery as to what is real and what is not in the universe(s) of the novel. The narrative layers in the Goncharov mythos bleed into each other because we traverse them freely - from the fictional reviews and retellings and analysis, to the semi-fictional drawing of comparisons to real media and the use of this nonexistent movie as a low-stakes vehicle to lightheartedly air one's real complaints with fan culture, to the fully-grounded discussion of Goncharov's impact as a meme, to the philosophical discussion of its multi-layered nature, to the once-again-fictional speculation of how it will be viewed in the future - the same person can visit any of these layers.
But their impact will always be bound by each layer's internal rules, because building a legend - a narrative - will not allow for anything else.
Goncharov does not exist. Goncharov is a narrative labyrinth that contains us all. YOU CANNOT ESCAPE ITS NARRATIVE.
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1. Tumblr shipping culture is as much of a microcosm of queer studies as it is of media analysis. It, like the Goncharov meme, operates on a minimum of two levels: the level of analyzing a story for potential queer readings, namely in the form of romantic relationships, and opportunities for transformative work; and the level of sociopolitical discussion of queer issues and stereotypes, and how they are reflected in media and the discussion thereof; the latter, particularly, in the form of intracommunity disputes and lateral aggression. For example, the dispute over the nature of Goncharov and Katya's marriage and its level of sincerity is implied in some posts to occasionally cross the line into bisexual erasure. While at the time of the Goncharov meme's emergence in 2022, the discourse within this subculture is much more civil than it once was, it is still very much an environment that stands as a constant reminder that there is no such thing as a truly apolitical space.
Of course, most everyone on this website knows that by now, right?
2. This meme comes at a time when a lot of us are terrified of going back to the way things used to be in tumblr fan discourse. We all joke about the Hamilton HIV fanfic catfish, or The JohnLock Conspiracy, or any number of other major scandals now that they're over; they are hilarious in hindsight, but it's all too easy to lose track of the fact that the human toll at the time was real. DashCon is a joke to most, but I've personally met more than one well-meaning volunteer who ended up with PTSD from dealing with attendees who thought even the volunteers were in on an intentional scam. We laugh at the absurdity of the incident known as Boneghazi, but it doesn't take away the fact that there are still people in Louisiana wondering if their relatives were the ones whose bones were stolen and offered up for sale online - though that one was only tangentially related to fandom, it's from the same broad sitewide culture. People have been stalked, harassed, doxxed, psychologically abused to the point of hospitalization and even suicide, there are even rumors of assaults over disagreements about which show is better, or which fictional characters have the best relationships. It's all petty, all funny in hindsight - but the human toll is real.
I got caught in an incident myself once*, before the porn ban. There was one guy, they and some real life friends of theirs got into my circle of friends in a roleplay community in the ■■■■■■■ fandom. They seemed nice enough. Normal enough. We had a few good chats. They played the same character I did, among a few others. Had a fun little concept we were throwing back and forth to start a thread with the doubled character. Accidental cloning due to a computer error, it was going to be.
Everything fell apart when a new ■■■■■■■ ■■■■■■ dropped. It gave us a nice scene of the most popular "ship" in the fandom - one that had been teased since day 1, and of course when it got attention the company wanted to milk it for all it was worth. This guy originally seemed cool with the ship, even though they didn't like it much; they preferred to pair one of the characters off with their self-insert OC. It was all a peaceful difference of opinion for a while, but after this ■■■■■■ dropped and people were excited about the scene, they went berserk. My then-boyfriend's ex started getting anonymous messages imitating him. My inbox started filling up with threats. Some of my more casual acquaintances started confronting me over threats they thought I sent. Meanwhile, this guy was melting down on main about how everyone had "betrayed" them. I found myself blocked by our mutual friends who this guy knew in real life - it turned out, because they were telling them that I was sending them hate and threats. "Someone" tried to convince my then-boyfriend to doxx someone adjacent to the circle for "abuse". I started getting hate messages that hit some of my deepest insecurities and almost ■■■ ■■ ■■ ■■■■■■ - the only reason I ended up okay was because I figured it out, because I realized this guy was the one doing all of it, and they were mining for ammo from our mutual friends.
All of this because a bunch of people, mostly strangers, were happy about the ■■■■■■. Because of a fictional relationship. Their fixation on me was just because we played the same character but liked different ships, and I was a little more known in the fandom. This wasn't even on a website where people could see follower counts, it was right here on tumblr, so they had to be pretty obsessive to figure that out in the first place.
Eventually the friends they lied about me to caught on and left them, but not before they stole a bunch of said friends' stuff. Last I checked on them, it was 2 years since the incident, and they were still melting down on main about how anyone who liked that ship was evil. By that point they had convinced themself that the entire fandom for that ship was a campaign to harass and persecute them personally; that there was no other reason to like it.
The last thing I head about them was that they had stabbed a family member over this and some other personal drama and gotten banned from Twitter and a few conventions for making violent threats toward artists and cosplayers. I don't dare look back anymore.
*Editors' note: Some details have been altered or redacted to protect the ignorant.
3. Ironically, this is one of the few tells that Goncharov is not an extant piece of media. In fandoms for real media, it is fairly common for details to be misremembered and corrections to be made.
4. "Don't look back", of course, is easier said than done. We must recall the myth of Orpheus and Eurydice. Orpheus, despondent at the loss of his love, arranged to be allowed into the underworld to bring her back to life, but there was one condition; one tiny, seemingly simple condition - he must not look at her until they were both back in the light. If he did, she would be dragged back and lost forever; he would not get a second chance.
Like many myths, the details vary from telling to retelling. Some say that she was never made aware of the rule and cried out in terror as her husband refused to look at her, and almost instinctively he turned to comfort her. Some say that he fell victim to almost a form of muscle memory in mid-ascent when he turned to make sure she was okay. Some say that his desire to see her again sooner rather than later was just too strong and outweighed his resolve and common sense screaming for him to hold to the condition. Some say that he turned as soon as he was in the light, blissfully unaware until it was too late that she was still in the dark.
Whatever the reason, Orpheus looked back.
There is no version of the story where he succeeded in not looking back. The narrative will not let him not look back. The myth has no room for an Orpheus who is successful.
He cannot escape the myth.
He cannot escape the narrative.
Orpheus will always look back.
#goncharov#unreality#heavier unreality warning than your typical goncharov post#i freaked myself out with this#so if you like horror about the nature of narrative please read this and make it worth it!#house of leaves#memeology#internet culture#astral originals
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CW: Nazism, TribeTwelve.
I do not support or glorify Nazis and I do not condone the atrocious things they've done. I am telling the truth and I have no reason to fabricate this, I swear on my granny's grave. If you've been following me on Instagram, you know this. Also I do not support Adam Rosner.
To everyone I have hurt and made angry because of my latest posts, (which I deleted) I'm sorry. It was insensitive of me and I should have realized that sooner and thought twice before posting such stuff. I hope that this post will help calm things down, if not completely resolve them. I am not asking for any forgiveness, I just want you to understand and realize that those posts do not reflect who I am as a person, and I want to explain everything and clarify that those posts were not supposed to glorify, romanticize or sexualize Nazism, they were only meant to show the (atleast original) lore of one particular character in this fandom.
HABIT's character and the Slenderverse/WW2 lore connection:
The Slenderverse lore is heavily connected to WW2, at least in EMH, T12 and DH00. I admit I knew the EMH creators debunked/retconned the HABIT/Nazi lore before, but I totally forgot about it since I hadn't been active in this fandom for a while and I can't remember everything. But either way, it was still part of the lore anyway and many people still consider it canon. Hear me out. The whole point of HABIT's character is that he's not just some silly, sexy, evil murder wolf demon (or whatever the fuck he is), he's an irredeemable monster, a literal embodiment of mankind’s evil actions, which (atleast originally) included Nazism aswell. If you've seen Steph's Canyouseetheworld blog, you know exactly what I'm talking about and the horrendous, inhumane things he's capable of doing and saying.
The Brandit post: (or whatever the ship is called)
You can skip this part, if you’ve watched TribeTwelve.
(((I admit I do ship HABIT x Firebrand/Noah, but I am also aware that all HABIT ships are toxic, abusive, and ridiculous, let's be honest.. However, I think this ship is one of the least toxic, not only because HABIT helped Firebrand escape from The Collective, but also because Noah is one of the few, if not the only person, HABIT didn't want to kill, which is unusual for him. And also the patience and huge amount of nerves HABIT has towards Noah is intriguing. We know what Noah’s like, how stubborn and stupid he is and sometimes you want to punch him in the face, which miraculously HABIT haven't done. And we never got to know the reason or motivation behind HABIT's actions of helping Noah/Firebrand but I guess we will never know.. Either way, I do not ship them romantically, that would be ridiculous.)))
Anyway, let's talk about the post where HABIT said to Firebrand, and I quote: ''LET'S FUCK AND PISS OFF OUR ANCESTORS.'' With Firebrand's response: ''HABIT, what the actual fuck, ya absolute disgrace.''
I admit, this was really horrid and I understand why people were so angry over this. Drawing the little symbols next to them was fucked up and insensitive and made it look like I was sexualizing a Jew with a Nazi, also with a mention of the past (WW2), which was very disrespectful towards the Holocaust and the actors as well. But. That was not my intention or the point of it. It was not meant to be sexualized. The point was to show HABIT’s natural fucked up behavior and sick humor. That's it. And the post was not meant to be taken seriously anyway. No? HABIT wouldn't fuck Firebrand, whether he's Jewish or not. It was meant to be a joke, a very bad one, but I'm aware of it now. Perhaps my humor is just broken sometimes. I hope it's all clear now. I should have realized this sooner, added a CW and explanation, or rather not posted it at all. Again, I am sorry for all of this and I hope we can all move on. I will be more mindful and responsible in the future.
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All Kagehina “proof” I know of
Ok i wasnt gonna post this but ive been told by a friend to explain why some might ship Kagehina so... try me.
i dont exactly ship this myself but lets just say im a pro when it comes to this topic also it's not as bad as i thought it was there are worse ships idk why i was a hater
also i lowkey got some of this from shipping wiki but most of it i knew already, plus NOT ALL OF THIS IS NECESSARILY REFERENCES TO THE SHIP it kinda just adds on to it
anyways lets just get into it
ok so starting with common knowledge i think everyone knows that Hinata is the protagonist followed with Kageyama being the deuteragonist, they get the most screen time together and are pretty much paired MOST of the series, we get a lot of content with them together while also getting content of them on their own, they're known as the "freak duo," the "greatest teammates" and like 100 other names they've been called
I've seen a lot of people intemperate their relationship wrong, I've seen a few say Kageyama was downright "abusive" to Hinata which I think is a little farfetched, but to each their own! They genuinely do care for each other and it shows, even at the end of the manga you can tell how far their relationship has come, even if they consider themselves rivals, they are without a doubt still friends
Now a lot of people have said "well they're not gay they're just friends", while this is true, it has been referenced/implied officially in many places, including manga panels and english dubs, so while it isn't canon there is a few cute things about it which we know are official which is why I'm sharing this, I myself know it isn't canon, plus I didn't really make this to prove anything it was kinda for fun
sorry if that made little to no sense but I'll start getting into more interesting stuff
1. at the tip of the iceberg we have the fact they're in so much official art together
theres like a 1000 more of these btw
theyre often put near eachother even in official arts not based off them
I have like 1k more of these but i have more proof than this but i think you get my point
some of this is probably promo art but that's also considered official art so
2. moving on i think another known one is that Ukai calls them lovebirds ONE TIME in English dub and I have no idea who approved that but I think it's funny and obviously this probably meant nothing but take it as you want
video of it here
3. this is kinda randomly thrown in but the fact that they also trust eachother, they've mentioned it a couple times but I think it's nice to know
4. i dont remember when this was or what chapter or something but kageyamas grandfather said "somebody even better will come for you", which just happened to be Hinata of course
5. ALSO after that whole fight scene back in season two, Hinata says this
he didnt really consider kageyama as a friend, but he considered him a partner which i believe is more important to hinata.
teammates/partners were always something Hinata wanted, as before he went to Karasuno, he didn't feel like his friends in Junior high were necessarily teammates. Meaning he valued Kageyama more because he was his partner.
(credits to triananero for these images)
and when him and Kageyama started working together, they most definitely were perfect together, as they balanced each-other out, which made them become an unstoppable duo or whatever they called them
6. the fact that they have matching jersey numbers 9 and 10
moving on to less canon stuff, there is a light novel of Haikyuu called Haikyū!! Shōsetsuban!! which probably isnt close to canon but Furudate was a part of it even though it wasn't written by him, so it's at least somewhat official
7. anyway according to shipping wiki there is a chapter where Kageyama feels "fluttery feelings at the bottom of his stomach" when Hinata texts him, it's on volume 8 chapter 1, I REALLY WANTED TO SHOW YOU GUYS BUT I COULDNT FIND IT ANYWHERE ONLINE. i searched countless tumblr posts and websites but i could only find chapter five and chapter three so im fully convinced this is lost media LMAOOOO
8. also in Haikyū!! Shōsetsuban!! apparently there's a part where Hinata daydreams about him and Kageyama eating under cherry blossom trees i just found that cute
AS MUCH AS I WANNA SHOW YOU GUYS I LITERALLY CANNOT FIND ANYTHING OF THIS LIGHT NOVEL ANYWHERE i just know it's real, if I ever get my hands on it which I doubt, I'll share
proof it exists btw
AND THIS IS REALLY RANDOM AND SOMEONE WANTED ME TO INCLUDE THIS BUT
9. Basically there was a ad for deodorant a couple years back, collabing with Haikyuu, where you could buy deodorants to “smell like them” or whatever, some shippers believe it’s a Kagehina reference as they also advertised Kageyama and Hinatas scents together as some like matching couple thing
and then there's this
And I think I've said enough, there's way more you can find out about this ship, but I hope with this post you've learned something new or whatever... I MIGHT MAKE THIS A SERIES should i do kenhina next or kuroken
ANYWAYS DISCLAIMER I didnt look too much into most of these things but I can gaurentee this stuff is true also this was just for fun and not serious but i hope you liked my little post!
#haikyuu#kagehina#im just rambling#kageyama#tobio kageyama#haikyuu!!#ship#um#PLS ignore all the grammar mistakes i made this wasnt supposed to be serious#i love hinata shouyou#hinata shouyou#shippingpost#haikyu#hi#wht ship should i do next
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TheWertsearch shipping chart
Ver. 1, Act 5.1
Let's get into it!
I've included every Player and a couple of wildcards. I thought about adding minor characters like the Guardians and Exiles, but we don't know too much about their dynamics yet. For what it's worth, I think the first three Exiles would be a cute triad, and might add WQ when we've seen more of her. I don't really ship any of the Guardians, since we know next to nothing about their personalities.
I'm going to mostly focus on potential dynamics. There aren't many canon ships in here, but hopefully that'll change as we move through the comic, because I honestly got pretty invested in some of these while working on this post. Let's dive in!
Hearts
Rose/Kanaya is an obvious lock. I've talked about it before, and my thoughts haven't really changed, so I won't repeat myself here. Their dynamic is great, and it's even better now that we know Kanaya used to idolize Rose. I can't wait to see them talk that one out. At this point, I'm 100% convinced that they should be a couple, and about 90% convinced that it's going to happen in canon. Bring on the #RosemarySweep!
John/Karkat is an intriguing prospect. John's optimism is exactly what a sourpuss like Karkat needs, and their conversations are clearly having a positive effect on him. Conversely, Karkat's decisive leadership style might, in time, rub off on John. The two complement each other well - and since it's clear that Karkat doesn't really hate John, I think they're well-placed for a red romance, rather than a black one.
Karkat/Nepeta has potential. Nepeta clearly sees something in him, and I don't think it's just the 'cat' in his name. They both have a romantic streak, although neither of them seems all that experienced with (concupiscent) romance. I don't know, I just think it might be cute!
I could also envision a minor moirallegiance between them. Karkat isn't that hot-tempered, but chilling out with Nepeta and bouncing ships off each others' heads might help him let off some steam.
Tavros/Gamzee would be pretty cute. Tavros is used to being Vriska's punching bag - and, more broadly, he's used to conversations where you're supposed to be punching. Gamzee, too, is frequently insulted, even by people who call themselves his friends. Bring these two trolls together, though, and Alternia's antagonistic social norms completely disappear. They're a breath of fresh air, and I think they deserve a quiet corner in the Veil to play Fiduspawn together.
Terezi/Vriska would make a great power couple, and I want to see them take on the world together - but I don't see it happening any time soon. They both have a lot of growing to do - and besides, I think another quadrant is in the cards first.
Jack/Droog. Yes, really. This one isn't complex, I just think they'd be funny together. Plus, a hot-blooded, stab happy gangster pairs perfectly with a stone-cold, calculating partner. It's like cookies and cream!
Dave/Jade is another one I've discussed before. Jade is playfully, authentically herself, and Dave, who's still treating life like a bit he needs to commit to, might have something to learn from her. There's a real person behind that persona, and Jade likes him.
I'm a Jade/Rose truther - but there's not much to report on this, since the game seems intent on keeping them from interacting much. Hopefully Act 5.2 will see them working together in the Medium, and we can really shine a light on this dynamic.
Gamzee/Eridan was initially a joke ship. Eridan wants a matesprit, but he'd only date a highblood, and Gamzee's the only one without that quadrant filled, so Eridan better learn to ride a unicycle.
Except... weirdly enough, it sort of works? Unlike Feferi, Gamzee wouldn't be stressed out by being around Eridan - and despite what you might expect, Eridan doesn't even seem to dislike Gamzee. He opened up to him about Feferi, at least a little - and even slammed a Faygo when Gamzee suggested it. When talking to Gamzee, Eridan wouldn't be able to dance around the point, like he was doing with Feferi and Kanaya. Gamzee wouldn't pick on his 'hints', so he'd have to resort to direct, open communication, which might be good for him. Plus - you can say a lot of things about Eridan, but he sure ain't a quitter. Gamzee's Sopor addiction would annoy the hell out of him, and there's a decent chance he might actually be able to annoy him off the stuff. If we go with the moirallegiance angle, Gamzee would probably leave Eridan too baffled to give into any Alternian bloodlust - and any overblown genocide plans would fly right over Gamzee's head.
Wow, this really did start as a joke, but I'm beginning to convince myself. I... guess we'll see what happens?
Diamonds
I'm convinced Kanaya -> Terezi would work. Terezi is violent and dangerous - but unlike Vriska, her violence takes the form of mind games. Kanaya is good at mind games, and I think she'd make an excellent, Machiavellian moirail for Terezi, using ConversationWithAVeryStupidGirl.txt-style rhetorical traps to trick her into good behavior. She could even collaborate with her future girlfriend, Rose, to design clever ways to keep Terezi from getting more of her friends killed. And you know Terezi would love it.
That leaves Vriska unattended. We can't have that, so it's time to make a case for Feferi -> Vriska.
I think Feferi would make a lot more progress with Vriska than she ever did with Eridan. The biggest problem with Eridan was that he was insincere - he wasn't honest about his proclivities or intentions, and Feferi was working her ass off just to figure out what he was thinking. By contrast, Vriska is extremely sincere about her emotions - I don't think she can fake a feeling. Feferi will know exactly what she's getting with Vriska, because Vriska will constantly tell her.
Feferi could pacify Vriska, I'm sure of it. She's cheerful, persistent, physically powerful, immune to Vriska's psionics, and has killed thousands to feed her lusus. Feferi understands Vriska.
Sollux <--> Aradia is a potential bidirectional moirallegiance. They both have their violent moods, and they know each other well enough to recognize and help each other through them. Aradia could potentially use her necromancy to get the soon-to-be-dead out of Sollux's head - and he might be able to remove Aradia's violent impulses entirely, using his technical know-how to revert Equius' changes and turn her body into a true reflection of her living self.
Honestly, they still have a shot at hearts, too - but I think diamonds is the way to go for now.
Feferi -> Equius might work - he'd have to listen to a violet-blood. Plus, spending time with the princess might help Equius learn that the Empire is bullshitting him about the hemospectrum. After all, she's at the top of the totem pole - and yet, she's against a lot of what the Empire stands for. What gives?
Spades
Jack\Lord English was originally just a joke, but I've decided to start shipping it earnestly for shits and giggles - especially since we've learned about kismesissitude, a quadrant they fit perfectly into. Maybe there's more than one reason that Slick was so single-minded about catching the guy.
To be honest, Vriska\Terezi is basically inevitable. There's no way they peacefully talked it out during the session, and now they're stuck on a tiny meteor together. These are resourceful girls - they're probably already plotting their next moves, and they'd be fools not to factor each other into whatever plans they're making. They will come to blows, and then they'll realize how much they're enjoying the experience. I think this will be our first truly balanced kismesissitude, and I'm very interested in seeing where the chips fall.
Clubs
Aradia -> Vriska/Tavros.
Someone needs to keep these two apart. Robot!Aradia doesn't have the ideal temperament for auspisticism, but things are far from ideal at this point. She's Tavros' old FLARP teammate, and even in her current state, she's still invested in his well-being.
This might also be a way for Aradia to reconcile with Tavros, since it doesn't seem like they've spoken much since they died. What does Tavros think of this new Aradia, and will his opinion change if she starts to intercede against Vriska on his behalf? I want to find out.
Feferi -> Equius/Aradia.
This one would be so easy. All Feferi would need to do is tell Equius to back the fuck off, and he'd be obliged to obey. I don't like the hemospectrum, but if we're stuck with it for now, let's at least use it for good, hm?
That's it! It was the first shipping chart I've ever made, and I had a lot of fun with it. I'll be doing this again the next time we 'finish' an Act, and it'll be interesting to see how this evolves over time.
See you next time, for the beginning of Act 5.2!
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How do you think redeeming Knives went after the ‘98 ending? Not sure how Vash would reign in him
Welcome to the plot of countless fanfics exploring that very same question since the turn of the millennium!! 8'D
Understandable, since the 98 anime's ending was left deliberately open-ended (its plot way different from the manga too, since it hadn't been completed yet), with every other major character dead save for the brothers and Meryl & Milly, it's heavily implied Vash returned home - to the girls, as he was trusted to, while carrying the incapacitated Knives over his shoulder (while leaving all his/their guns and red coat behind, since those items were symbolically no longer needed anymore) rather than leaving on a one-way suicide mission where he & Knives would end up killing each other. No, Vash made the independent decision to survive and properly 'take care' of Knives the way their mother Rem wished for them -to live- upon her sacrificial goodbye. After Vash finally realizes/interprets what she meant after going through some huge life-changing revelations himself (especially from Meryl's successful non-violent demonstration in saving him, proving to him that Rem's belief, and having faith in humanity, actually works after suffering thru so many repeated failures where it didn't), it's important he chooses not to die, or kill, or abandon or give up on even his own brother as a lost cause too. :') So I think it's appropriate he perseveres in saving Knives too (with Vash essentially taking responsibility as the 'older' brother now), while holding firm onto the belief of a hopeful 'blank ticket' open future...even for those like himself, who've terribly wronged. After all, survival, recovery, and kindness are a choice. And definitely not easy. Especially on their harsh, unforgiving desert planet. But at least 98 Knives is alive to recover enough that he gets that choice of a future too.
And so...your guess is as good as mine as to what's implied post-canon when we get official art like this! (As amusingly noted: Knives gets his second chance forced into family group therapy as the petulant 'younger' brother now~) Where I definitely think it would take a group effort, and not just from Vash himself, to reform Knives with the right kind of therapy needed (both physical and emotional, since yup Vash basically shot thru all his limbs and Knives himself still has unaddressed childhood trauma from the SEEDS' ship to consider - note, cause the Tesla medical abuse incident never happened in the 98 canon to mentally scar him for life, BUT it's implied child Knives directly suffered some form of physical abuse from the prejudiced bad apples on their ship's crew behind closed doors that not even Vash knew about, so yeah.)
I've seen fics where it's absolutely not smooth sailing (for example, on the common premise where Vash has no clue or plan on how to deal with bringing Knives home--cold turkey style, to the girls), where Knives continues to be a dangerous threat and menace - especially towards the girls, even while physically incapacitated - since he still has mental powers of telepathy and manipulative coercion/brainwashing, etc etc (available fic Plant powers may vary - BUT since 98 Legato had Vash's grafted-on lost arm and used those--Vash's powers for evil, it's implied Vash has all those same powers too, the same or even greater than Knives, he's just untrained and/or chooses not to use them on people Like That. The interesting potential being that...Vash could. This is why structurally, 98 Legato works well as Vash's foil, and is arguably more of the 'main villain' than 98 Knives was, and also why Vash killing Legato, and therefore part of himself in the process, has some interesting layers/nuances to it that even the Trimax manga didn't have, since the lore was completely different. But anyway I'm going off-tangent...)
So overcoming Knives' fear/hatred/disgust towards humanity is one of the biggest hurdles to address. Again this where I often see the girls come in, especially the continued exposure and positive reinforcement from Milly's grace, often while he's still recovering and bedridden from his injuries fighting Vash, to slowly help 'restore his faith in humanity' kinda deal. I've even seen the fic idea where Milly raising her -speculated- child from Wolfwood gives Knives a whole new closeup perspective on human life he never got before. (Bottom line, I understand why all the post-canon Milly-Knives fics seemed to be popular back then.) But I think the creative ideas I find particularly interesting are the ones that capitalize on the telepathic link between Vash & Knives - where Knives can pick up on the thoughts/feelings Vash happens to broadcast while interacting with say...Meryl ;) to Knives' shock/confusion! that by proxy affect Knives' curiosity towards humans like her. Cause if he can sense how his brother can feel something like that towards them, different from how it ever was with Rem, then wtf is up with that?! Aha, many fun shenanigans can ensue with that!
Even better is when I see fics delve into some of Knives' deeper issues, like his broken levels of trust and feelings of betrayal, loneliness and abandonment he possibly fears even from Vash (after all, Rem 'chose' humanity over them, and Vash left him to 'choose' humanity over him too - having those kinds of doubts to come clean about.) There's some good stuff to explore there, on the topic of normal dysfunctional/estranged brothers trying to reconcile and reconnect as family again, and I'm sure there are plenty of 98 Knives-centric fics focusing on his redemption that I haven't even seen yet (the ones I ended up not liking are those that flip or roleswap to give Vash the short end of the stick, ie they redeem and give Knives all the happiness at the expense of Vash; now that's just unfair!) It's just...searching on the older sites like ff.net for that kinda stuff is difficult to know what you're getting into without appropriate tagging, so heck, even I'd be up for hidden recs people have found on the topic!
#trigun#anime spoilers#anonymous#replies#fanfic stuff#since basically what you're asking exists only in the realm of fanfiction#and boy have i seen some things(tm) but i'm sure plenty more lost good stuff is out there
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I'm so kdhdkdjdkd jazzed about the fjorester proposal !!!! But something that popped up pretty immediately that baffled me was these like... cope posts i guess? Of how "beau and jester should cheat leaving their partners for eachother and how dw guys marriage is just going to spice up the inevitable affair" and it's not even treated as a joke and Im just confused? Like i got into cr2 by the time it was over with so idk what it was like waiting for releases, but why after all this time do people hold on as much as they do? Do they like the story or not?
So I will be totally honest: I am not above checking the blogs of those I know hold terrible opinions, for a number of reasons both reasonable (keeping an eye out for potential harassment; inspiration for meta; my genuine enjoyment of analyzing fandom trends) and less so (schadenfreude and sending DMs that say Can You Believe This Idiot) but I actually have not seen this! To be clear, I would not be surprised it was out there - heaven knows this was a refrain during late Campaign 2 and in the leadup to the two-shot - but I thought that most people finally gave up in late 2022 after the two-shot made it clear the existing relationships are still very much in place. Granted I, as always, rarely go on Twitter.
Anyway. I think some of it is just that people whose enjoyment of works hinges on their ships becoming canon, rather than that being one of many facets to their fandom, also tend to not know when to give up just generally (you can look around this website and still find people hopping mad and/or pining for resolution regarding shows that ended before Campaign 2 even started). I think most of them did finally give up and leave, which is probably healthier for both them and the fandom, but there will probably be a dwindling number of holdouts who will gasp out on their deathbed fifty years hence "Beau and Jester should have been together" to a politely confused hospice nurse.
To actually answer your question, no, they do not like the story. I know I've been very hard on people who seem to only be able to enjoy fiction through a lens of either shipping or intense projection of the self onto existing characters, but in my defense, I'm right. This is a whole separate post, which to be honest I've kind of already made several times, but the usual complaint about the Campaign 2 noncanon ships (echoed in the complaints about Campaign 3 primarily by those who do like the canon ships thereof) was that they would have happened and been flawless and perfect but for that Pesky Plot, ie, the story. Unless the entire point of a story is a romance (eg: the genre that is cleverly titled "Romance") romance is always optional.
I also think, to be honest, Campaign 2 attracted people who were patient. This is a good thing! I think that, for example, people who are not entirely feeling Campaign 2 13 episodes in are valid, because I was similarly enjoying myself but not entirely won over by the plot yet, and it was only a combination of that patience and the burgeoning character dynamics that kept me going (plus the fact that watching week to week is a lower commitment than a binge). Granted I think if you fully give up at that point you are weak and will not survive the winter and should probably go watch Michael Bay movies or Bluey, but that's a separate point. Anyway. Some people are patient beyond a point where it is rewarding or even neutral and pass into a realm of showing up to the Story That Has Fjorester and Beauyasha In It muttering "I hope this doesn't have any fucking Fjorester and Beauyasha". I don't know how to help them, nor do I particularly want to, but I do know that not going on Twitter has been super helpful.
One final note: again, haven't seen the thing you mention in your ask yet in relation to this one-shot and not for lack of poking around Tumblr at least; but I have seen people who were deeply bitter about Campaign 2 but are still around for Campaign 3, though not a ton, and this was also frankly true of people who loved Campaign 1 and have not really cared since but still stick around. There's a weird zombie problem in the fandom; you get people who are very invested in being a fan of Critical Role and can't seem to leave, but haven't actually been happy for literal years, either because they were ultimately only fans of Vox Machina, or the Mighty Nein, or a specific ship within that. It is actually something I try to be cognizant of because I was very cautious about becoming that during the stretch when I was more frustrated by Campaign 3 than I am now. I think, ultimately, it's a conflation of one's fandom with one's external identity and I don't know how that happens or how to fix it but that might also be a factor: people who really don't like the show and haven't for years and are grasping at a thing they think would fix that and make them happy again, and refuse to admit it might be time to move on because that would mean they need to change their conception of themselves.
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What Polyamory Does For The It Fandom VS In The St Fandom.
These are some brain worms I've had for a while and I've decided to share, regardless if it makes some people mad. Although that is truly not the intent of this post. Anyways. If you haven't been in the It fandom and only have stayed in the St fandom this post may not make sense but I do encourage you to read it.
I joined the It fandom in 2017. I'm one of those few people who were in the It fandom first before moving over to also join the St fandom in late late 2017/early 2018. I had a blog for consuming content but I didn't start making content until 2020 for the It fandom and more recently and regularly for the St fandom. Anywho what I'm trying to say is that I've seen a lot.
I loved many ships in the It fandom and one of the main ships is Poly Losers Club. This is the first fandom I've seen where a poly ship was one of the more popular ones. Even if someone didn't ship all the Losers, throuple and quatrouples (is that how you say it?) have always been popular in this fandom.
Because it is almost unanimously agreed across the fandom, that whether platonically or romantically, all the Losers love each other. Even the most die hard of reddie shippers, the fandom's most popular ship, can often agree on certain fanon headcannons, Stan and Richie practiced their first kiss on each other, Eddie's first crush was on poor oblivious Bill. And that comes back to the agreement that all the Losers love each other. Ships in this fandom have never had an issue coexisting. If someone shipped something different from someone it was always more like "oh that's not my favorite but I definitely see where you're coming from'" OR they're like "yeah no they're in love too," Hardly ever any belittling or any superiority complexes.
That's what makes being in this fandom fun and easy.
Poly Losers even often features a gay man and a women and I've read many beautiful fics where this is explained as they're more best friends than lovers but Eddie doesn't love Bev any less because she's a woman. This fandom allows Eddie and Bev to have an amazing and emotionally intimate relationship because I feel like this fandom does understand, for the most part, that platonic love is just as important as romantic love.
Now on to the St fandom. There are some poly party shippers out there but they are far and few. And there is SO MUCH shipping discourse. Yes I could talk about Mileven and Byler but come on, it goes beyond that. It's with Jany and Stancy, Ronance and Rockie. Elmax and Lumax, and Steddie and Stonathan. Just about every ship you think of there is an alternate ship that people will fight for. They will belittle you for shipping something they don't, and insist that your ship is nothing but platonic. That,,,that just doesn't happen in the It fandom. You know the joke, "All the Losers had a crush on Bill at one point," I think that in itself says a lot. Bill, the arguably least liked character, (my poor bb), has the joke that all the losers had a crush on him at one point.
I'm getting off track. Anyways I'm not saying that shipping everyone together in a poly sense would fix everything with these shipping wars but i do believe why there was never any shipping wars in the It fandom was because of Poly Losers. Also when I talk about poly in St I mean it like Poly Party and Poly teenage crew. Not together, I hate that I have to clarify that.
In the St fandom, it's just not as universally agreed that everyone loves each other, even in the basic platonic sense. All anyone seems to care about in the St fandom is romantic love. A lot of shippers want to be right, they want to prove that their ship will be cannon which just,,,sucks the fun right out fandom spaces.
Canon, fanon, why can't people just make cute fan art and talk in babbles about thoughts they have on a ship. Why do you have to be right about what's going to be the canon ship? Why do certain people feel the need to put down and even to the extent as far as bullying people who ship something different? I've never seen a fandom so focused on 'canon pairings' like the st fandom. (Side note I was never in the sherlock and supernatural fandoms, I knew to mention this)
The party, like the losers, are friends who have been through turmoil that have bound them together for a lifetime. I don't care what pairing you give me from st, whether it be a platonic or a romantic one, I will tell you that those characters deeply care for each other.
Side note: it's worth a mention that the Duffer brothers originally wanted to film the It remake and when they didn't get it, we got Stranger Things. It can be argued that the Party is based off the Losers club so you know what that means? THEY ALL LOVE EACH OTHER. Take it as platonic or romantic idc.
Again, I don't think that poly party is the answer to ending the shipping wars. I do think however that if people could remember how much the party members mean to each other, that that could make less tiring fandom spaces.
Okay I'm done. I just thought this was an interesting point on how it's been like in the It fandom vs the St fandom.
Wait I was doing tags and I forgot to mention that there are few people who ship Elumax and Stoncy, two throuples and kudos to them. They're just worth a mention, I didn't forget about ya'll
#this post isn't targeting anyone#if you read this and get offended idk what to tell you#my inbox is open for discussion if you disagree or have a different take#but I won't be responding to bullies#also the st fandom has made me appreciate the it fandom so much more#it 2017#it 2019#poly losers club#polylosers#poly losers headcanons#poly party#bill denbrough#stanley uris#eddie kaspbrack#richie tozier#mike hanlon#bev marsh#ben hanscom#reddie#steddie#stonathan#lumax#elmax#I'm not tagging b/ler or m/even bc last time sometold me to kms in my inbox and i dont want to deal with that
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"I need some air. The stupidity in here is making me feel faint."
Kim Pine RP and general Scott Pilgrim fandom blog; Asks always open (unless they get flooded, I suppose)
["Current" Event: GAME OVER! RESTART...?]
(Currently answering asks outside of the event and at a staggered rate; apologies for delays.)
Blog should be running on central time, I think, but I sleep at weird hours anyway.
Generally asking that you just be decent people, or make your asks exaggerated/obviously part of the bit you're building if you're going a certain direction. If I catch even a whiff of genuine bigotry, though, you're out pal.
NSFW asks tentatively allowed (until someone is a freak about it) [I need to clarify now that I mean this within the rp context: I will field nonRP NSFW asks without complaint. Stop. Bothering. The. Minors.]
Generally fine running separate continuities for Kim, you just need to specify, otherwise I'm working with my current amalgam of canon Kim stuff + blog canon (like anon shenanigans and stuff) (Bonus points if you can name our tag for me)
Theoretical fine with ship interactions, especially gay ones, but DO NOT ENGAGE ME IN THIS MANNER IF YOU ARE A MINOR! Thank you!
Characters I'm not interested in fielding ship content for: Lucas Lee, Hollie Hawkes*, Jason Kim*, basically any evil ex (aside from Roxie,,, maybe Patel,,,) Julie (...?)
Probably more but I don't expect it to be an issue, really- I don't think I've seen blogs for many of these or other characters
*nothing beyond acknowledging canon for Jason, theoretical cool with Hollie actually, it'd just need to be in a specific font, like some of the ones I am fine with but haven't specified- notably, with an understanding that as I write Kim, she could have feelings for Hollie, but after Jason has no interest in pursuing that (so for SPTO or pre-Jason stuff, specify and I'll consider!)
Reserved Anons/Sign-Offs:
✨️ Sparkles Anon
🐢 Turtle Anon
🐇 Bunny Anon
Crush Guy
⭐️ Anon
Doc
Minion King
🧸 Anon
🧠🪱 Anon
💠 Anon
🥚 Anon
🛼 Ramona ["super cool girl anon"] (Flowerspowers)
💥🎶🥁 Noel Welsh (drummer-boywelsh)
In Character tag(s):
Pine.txt
OOC
Hi, welcome to the blog! When addressing me, just call me Pine; if you want to call me Pine in a RP ask, just note that somehow so I understand. I am 23, so please keep this in mind when interacting!
My ooc tags are ooc, txt, and art (which I post my art under, obviously, so it may feature RP stuff.) OOC is sort of the catch-all?
I have an AO3 where you can see what fics I'm working on/have written.
Here's various versions of the media and how Hinged I am about them (answer: not very)
Movie: Least favorite Scott/iteration in general; fuck does it have some good lines though. Damnit. (I really do like a lot of aspects of it, but it IS my least favorite.)
Comics: 2 rereads down, favorite version; currently collecting panels for those with requests or questions relative to them (Starting 6 soon)
Show: Watched twice in full, halfway through a third run! (And set to collect Kim screencaps from episode 3!) Contender for favorite version, but has a lot of flaws, I will admit. (Also, begging for a "They Dated" extended cut from someone, please- I'd draw something for you maybe--)
Game: Very fun actually! Didn't know I could be good at this type of game; I have notes on most of the item stats for anyone that needs them- gonna start labeling every instance of the named NPCs eventually
#rp blog#roleplay#kim pine#spto#scott pilgrim comic#spvtwtg#spvtw#scott pilgrim game#scott pilgrim vs the world#scott pilgrim takes off#scott pilgrim kim#txt#gifs#this look alright? do i need more tags? it's been so long since i ran an rp or ask blog#like literally the start of my FNAF phase I'm pretty sure#fuck it we're hitting post#intro post#probably would've been a good one. L.
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What are your thoughts on the Soft Wars fic series? Personally I hate the take that the clones love Anakin and Ahsoka better than the rest of the Jedi.
I've actually given some of my thoughts on this series in a previous post I made here.
I'll put a quick TL;DR on those thoughts in this post, and then put some new ones under the cut to address your specific question.
All in all, Soft Wars is exactly what it says it is. It’s soft. It’s soft towards Anakin, it’s soft towards the clones, it’s soft towards the war and the worldbuilding. It’s definitely worth a read just for the way it handles the clone worldbuilding and the clear impact it has had on the way the clones have been written in fic ever since. At this point, I don’t regret reading it but I also don’t go back to it very often anymore and there’s a reason I don't rec Soft Wars for pro-Jedi fic recs when people ask.
Soft Wars is not what I would consider fully Pro-Jedi but nor is it anywhere near virulently anti-Jedi and it has some really neat writing for the clones while obviously being really pro-Anakin Skywalker to the point of smoothing out most of his more uncomfortable flaws to make him a more sympathetic and likable character.
To address your specific complaint about the clones loving Anakin and Ahsoka better than the rest of the Jedi, it's fairly clear to me that the author has a soft spot for Anakin and the rest of the fic is sort-of written around that in many ways. The majority of the focus of Soft Wars IS on the clones themselves, and their relationships to each other rather than their relationships to Anakin and Ahsoka specifically, but the big fix-it of the entire thing is that the clones save Anakin from the dark side and allow him to truly be himself. Which definitely ignores that Anakin was a full-blown fascist at this point, not to mention a complete racist (at least against the Tuskens), and arguably sexist as well as a sexual predator.
This is kind-of what I was referring to when I mentioned in the previous post I made about this that the author "smoothes out" Anakin's flaws to make him more sympathetic and likable. Soft Wars is by no means the only place this happens in fics, Anakin OFTEN has to get smoothed out in fix-it fics where he's allowed to live and just get a happy marriage with 2.5 kids and a white picket fence with Padme.
Soft Wars Anakin is... not really canon Anakin. He's got hints of canon Anakin, sure, but he's a LOT better of a person than canon Anakin was at this point in the story. The author had a soft spot for Anakin and wrote an entire epic around Anakin being saved by the clones, so you have to sort-of view Soft Wars from that perspective. If you are someone who doesn't like Anakin much and prefers a more realistic take on Anakin WITH all of his flaws at this point in his life, Soft Wars isn't going to give it to you. I find myself at a place these days where it can be really hard to read fics where Anakin is portrayed REALLY positively and without a lot of his canon flaws, especially with regards to the clones.
If you want more fics where the clones have good relationships with Jedi that AREN'T Anakin (or Ahsoka or even Obi-Wan), please check out blackkat's fics on AO3! A lot of them feature more niche Jedi or just focus on Jedi that tend to go more ignored in popular fandom. I've absolutely gained a love for a few Jedi characters that I'm not even sure I KNEW before I started reading these fics as well as gained several new ships! They're 100% Jedi-friendly, and they never shy away from the reality of who Anakin is and what he's done.
And if you want a series that focuses on the clones more and still gives them a pretty soft ending WITHOUT glorifying Anakin or infantilizing the Jedi, please check out the Reconstruction Corps AU by cacodaemonia (et al). Caco is an INCREDIBLE artist, so the series is worth taking a look at for the art alone, but the writing is wonderful, too, and is one of the few places where I've seen someone explore clone culture without just re-appropriating Mando culture, which is really awesome!
#star wars#clones#anakin critical#anakin skywalker critical#anti anakin#anti anakin skywalker#fic#fic recs
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I'm procrastinating writing at the moment, so I decided to create a list of the things I hate about Voltron, a show I can't help but love and rewatch 200+ times. I mean. I've been pretty damn vocal about one thing in particular, but I should probably remind people I hate other things too so...
This list will be long, so read more under the cut!
1 - Okay, let's just get the obvious one out of the way: Lance. Reasons why can be seen here, here and here. The first link really goes into the details, the second one is more confusion as to why people think Lance is treated the worst, and the last is more why Lance would be horrible as Black Paladin. MOVING ON TO NEW POINTS!
2 - The ships. Specifically... ahem... Klance, Sheith, Allurance, Lotorance (Lotor/Lance), Shidge (Shiro/Pidge), Shance (Shiro/Lance). Those, in my opinion, are the top offenders. I've explained my grievances with Sheith in a post here. It's not that it's paedophillia, it's the bond. As for the rest, while I dabbled a bit in Klance and Allurance in the aforementioned posts against Lance, I've yet to actually explain.
First of all, the fans are awful. Tip: If you keep trying to force people to like your ship instead of letting them get to their own conclusions, they're just going to hate that ship even more. This isn't a Voltron-specific thing, but it's still rampant.
Second of all, Lance doesn't treat either of them well. He's constantly antagonising Keith, even when Keith stops biting back in season two. The closest he gets to respecting Keith is telling him to suck it up when he's upset that the Black Lion chose him. Keith does try to be amicable to Lance, but it doesn't work because Lance is always picking a fight.
And Allura. Lance is constantly ignoring her boundaries and invading them. There isn't a single moment where they're alone together and they feel like friends, much less pining, before season seven. The only time is when Allura encourages Lance to take up Red, and he didn't even notice she was upset that Red rejected her. In fact, Lance just keeps talking about himself and how he was rejected, ignoring how Allura was rejected twice, and by the Lion her father piloted. Allura also never reacts well to Lance's flirting, always ignoring him and frowning when he does. If Allura, at least, used to laugh at his terrible attempts at flirting, maybe I could try to believe it.
Third, general grievances with these ships.
Lotorance. Lance hated Lotor from the get-go. They barely have a scene together without Lance glaring at him. If they shared some sort of chemistry outside of Lance hating him from afar, and if the writers didn't make Lotor a twist villain for no reason, then maybe. As of now, I only like it as a complete crack ship.
Shidge. Pidge is fifteen. Shiro is twenty-five. You do the damn math.
Shance. I can definitely see Shiro being Lance's bi awakening, if I believed canon Lance was bi. (Canon Lance was straighter than a chopping board, but fanon Lance is a walking bi flag). But them being together? Ignoring that Lance is 17 and Shiro is 25, if you can do that, it wouldn't feel like a healthy relationship. Lance is blinded by hero worship and, from his canon personality, he likely wouldn't realise if Shiro isn't faring well or would just constantly pile his troubles onto him without thinking about if Shiro could handle it. So, yeah, don't like this ship.
So, yeah. I don't like any of the popular ships, which is surprising. I don't hate all of them. I do like Kallura, (should have been canon), and Shallura, (surprising, because I really do like gay!Shiro), and Shunk, (who doesn't, honestly?). But I tend to prefer the nicher ones. Katt (Keith/Matt), Heith (Hunk/Keith), Hance (Hunk/Lance)...
3 - The writing. Usually, I would respect the writers because it's hard as fuck to plan and write an entire series, but they just kept missing. They would set up so many interesting plots and ideas, only to do absolutely nothing with them. This, in and of itself, is not enough to make me lose respect, but that's not all. Plot holes, terrible escalations, too slow pacing, (slow burns are good - great, even - but not when things are supposed to be happening), horrible romances... It's to the point where, for a long while, I avoided the show and only read the fanfiction. There are so many people who don't watch the show, only exposed through fanfiction and social media posts, because the writing just isn't good.
The writers get things right few times. I'm sorry, but if your entire job is to write a coherent, well-thought out story, why did they do such a bag job at it? I'll tell you why - they let the fans control what they did. Shiro was never supposed to come back. He was supposed to die at the end of season two and never come back, but the fans wanted him back so guess what? The writers brought him back! In doing so, they cut right into Keith's character arc and made him go through it off-screen. The fans built Lance up as the main character and fan-favourite? Well, the writers just decide to hand him everything. Reward him for being the fan-favourite and then ruin his character by never making him work for what he got.
The writers decide to pull a J.K.Rowling and went 'aw, yeah, Lance is bisexual!' despite him never showing an interest in a guy throughout the entire show, other than being a big fan of Shiro. They throw in gay!Shiro at the literal last minute with some background character who only ever had one line. Thanks, DreamWorks. It's not like you could've just let Adam live so Shiro could be going home to SOMEONE.
Unexpected things always happen. An actor being unavailable, a sudden irl event making it so the episode you planned would appear tone-deaf, the joke you wrote was less funny and more offensive... So on and so forth. Sometimes you have no choice but to change what you have planned because delaying it would just make the studio and the fans mad. Just... TRY to make it make sense. And don't fold to the fans, dammit. Shiro should have stayed dead because he just doesn't do anything when Allura and Keith saved him. The main character should have stayed as an ensemble, rather than pushing Lance as the central focus, because it would have left less reasons for me to hate Lance and give other, specifically Hunk, the development they deserved.
The show also never adresses traumatising shit, (*cough cough* Keith's sacrifice attempt *cough cough*), but that can be forgiven because it was aimed at children. I do, however, like that LM corrected an interviewer when they asked about Keith 'attempting to kill himself'. It was quickly corrected to 'sacrificing himself' because that's what it was! I'm sick of people acting like he was suicidal because he wasn't. He was actively scared of what he was going to do, i.e. sacrifice his life for everyone's sake. He tried to do it for the greater good. Would you call one of the many who died during wars suicidal? No. You would call them noble and heroic for their sacrifice, because that's what they are. That is what Keith was trying to do. He saw the only way out and decided one life in exchange for the many is a damn good deal and took it. Saying he was depressed and suicidal is undermining the actions he took.
So, yeah. In my eyes, the writers did two good things. Correcting the mistake belief that Keith was suicidal, and creating this shit-fest of a show. (God, I love/hate Voltron).
4 - How Pidge is treated by the fandom. Pidge is so mean. She's rude and callous and selfish and that's okay. What's not okay is acting like these traits make her a queen. She's rude, fine. She's callous, fine. She's selfish, fine. She's incredible for this? Um, no? Stop treating her like she's just sassy. She's mean. I mean, not long after Shiro's death/disappearance, she calls Keith, who is mourning Shiro so deeply, a 'loner'. Without even getting to know him. She just deems him a loner, even though Keith is just so genuinely kind?
Don't get me wrong. I love Pidge. She's great and she's an absolute joy to write. I admire her tenacity in trying to find her missing family members while also able to put the universe before them. Watching her break down about Matt when she thinks he's dead is so utterly heartbreaking because I really did like her.
But acting as if she's perfect because of this? No way.
(Also, I refer to Pidge as 'she/her' only in these posts. I much prefer gender neutral or trans Pidge.)
5 - Hunk's treatment. He deserved SO MUCH BETTER! This sweet, precious boy. He's the only one who reacted approppriately to becoming a child solider. He's an anxious, terrified kid and he's still able to swallow that fear and fight on because there are people, people like Shay, who have no idea what freedom means and if the sky is blue.
He's the only one who has to find and fight for his family when they get back to Earth, which makes me sad. Very sad. He cares so much about his friends. Even if he's scared, he'll still put himself in danger for them.
But the narrative treats him like garbage, reducing him to the comedic, fat joke, while Lance never treats him like a best friend. He deserved so much more than what he was given.
6 - The people in charge were so obsessed with doing every character dirty. They wanted to keep Shiro death, wanted to kill Keith after admitting to not knowing where they were going with him, tried to kill Hunk who did nothing wrong to deserve this, and actually killed Allura off when they realised Allurance would not work in the long-term because Lance would not be able to part from Earth for so long while Allura would not be able to stay confined to Earth at all.
7 - Lance fans would hate him if he was white.
#vld#voltron#voltron legendary defender#things is hate about voltron#a short but lengthy list#i have a lot more i promise#anti allurance#anti klance#anti sheith#anti shidge#anti lance mcclain#anti lotorance#anti shance#the fact that lm admitted to being an allurance fan kinda sums this all up#voltron analysis#analysis#this is why fanfiction exists
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