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Discard and Draw
Sally ~ she/her ~ 25. Join me as I work through my first, rather ambitious liveblog project - a blind reading of Homestuck, right through to the end!
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It's definitely worth delving deeper into this moment. Certainly the Alternian view of the situation would agree with you - most trolls would condemn Tavros for failing to kill his tormentor in the grand tradition of the Empire.
Even from a human perspective, you could easily make an argument that Tavros did something wrong here. Vriska was literally asking for it, and she experienced a painful death that he could have prevented, had he took action.
However, I don't personally agree, for two main reasons.
Firstly, Vriska was bleeding out on that bed because she chose to be. She actively prevented Tavros from kiss-reviving her, while perfectly aware of the consequences for doing so. Tavros already tried to show mercy to Vriska, and she stopped him.
In essence, Vriska refused an antibiotic from Tavros, and then begged him to amputate her infected leg with a rusty saw.
Furthermore, every single time Vriska has tried to turn Tavros into a 'better', more violent troll, he's refused to comply.
She tried to extract a mercy kill from him - again, in a situation she engineered, and could easily have prevented - while fully aware that he isn't capable of performing mercy kills, and probably never would be. What, exactly, did she expect?
I think this is a good take, and might the real reason she pulled Tavros into this. I've pointed out before that Vriska clearly knew about her Quest Cocoon before Aradia's attack, so she could have gone there before, and ascended in much less dire circumstances.
She didn't. She is just a kid, and was likely terrified at the prospect of taking her own life - so she tried to put her life in someone else's hands instead. But, because she's Vriska, she picked the worst person she could possibly have chosen.
And we all saw the result.
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The most important character in Homestuck fondly regards the miracle of a new beginning.
The most what? Important what?
Curveball after curveball. So far, Gamzee has done nothing noteworthy. He's a silly stoner who likes to drink Faygo and hang out in the background of the comic. The only thing I can think of that might make him important is - and I can't believe I'm saying this - he's one of the most meta-aware characters in the comic.
Is this something more than a joke, after all? Has Gamzee's sopor abuse actually granted him a more profound awareness of reality?
...oh my god. I just realized something genuinely bone-chilling.
He's looking directly at Homestuck's Fourth Wall.
Let's move on. I need time to digest the fucking implications of this.
Oh, shit!
Up until now, Becsprite could be counted on to project Jade from perils such as this - but Becsprite's no longer in the building.
Doc Scratch? Here?
This is exactly what we don’t need right now.
"The kingdom of heaven is within you."
What a strange and specific choice for Hussie to make, when deciding what should be visible through Homestuck's Fourth Wall.
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JADE: hello!
JADE: ummmmmm
JADE: jade?
JADE: can you talk?
JADESPRITE: i…
Well, this is a first, isn't it?
A Dream Self is never meant to converse with its realsona. After all, there's only supposed to be one person in the equation. For hundreds of pages, I've been wondering what would happen if one was prototyped - and the answer seems to be that the Jade equation now contains two souls, not one. They're two independent incarnations of Jade, coexisting in the same space for the first time ever.
How similar are they, I wonder? Presumably Jadesprite's memory cuts off after the end of Descend, so she's essentially a version of Jade from hours in the past. From now on, they'll continue to diverge from each other as they experience different lives. Just like with Dave and Davesprite, these girls are now siblings, not 'sonas.
JADESPRITE: what did you do…
...uh oh.
In all my excitement, I forgot about a rather important facet of this situation.
JADESPRITE: WHAT DID YOU DO??????
Jadesprite's a First Guardian now.
This isn't something any human is prepared to handle. It's godhood, but not the safe, Sburb-approved kind that comes from a Quest Bed. It's raw, unfiltered power, knowledge beyond comprehension, and absolute control of distance itself.
What does that do to a person?
We've been playing fast and loose with Sburb's rules for too long.
Eventually, we were bound to cross a couple of wires that should never have been allowed to touch.
Looks like Gamzee's getting bored. At least we know he survives until the end of the countdown...
...wait. That's not paint, is it? That's Gamzee's blood.
What the hell's going on in the future?
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GG: are you suuuure we cant beat him?
GG: i dont know if we should rule it out!
You know, I've been complaining about the kids' plans for ages - maybe I should put my money where my mouth is, and come up with a workable one myself.
I think we can still make the Becsprite plan work, if we tweak it a little. All we really need to do is prototype him with an ingredient that can counteract his unwillingness to harm Dersite Agents. It might be worth prototyping him with a Prospitian Agent, who would surely relish the chance to take down the tyrant who destroyed their planet.
If we go with that plan, then we'd also have a First Guardian Sprite who can use the Queen's Ring. I don't know what would happen if a FG sprite gained additional First Guardian traits from the Bec kernel - but I feel like the resulting entity might legitimately be able to overpower Noir.
TG: youre about to do what youre about to do
TG: and im not going to tell you not to
TG: i wont do the bullshit troll thing and tell you what youre going to do and then just dare you not to
TG: while knowing damn well you will anyway […]
TG: whats next is up to you
That’s a good attitude to have – particularly towards Jade, who’s been dealing with this exact bullshit ever since we first heard from the trolls.
GG: hey tavros!
GG: i was thinking about your plan
GG: about uh…
GG: "communing" with my lusus :)
GG: maybe its not a bad idea!
GG: are you there?
Jade wasn’t privy to Vriska’s sabotage, so she still thinks Bec would be willing to fight Jack. That plan’s a non-starter now, and it’ll be even less of a starter when Tavros confronts Vriska, and immediately has his ass handed to him.
You don't think you can afford to wait around for him. This leaves the only other plan you can think of. One of last resort.
I’m pretty sure I know what’s about to happen - and as a result, I think I have a pretty good understanding of Jade’s thought process here.
If Bec won't help...
...then let's give his powers to someone who will.
Welcome back to the story, Dream Jade Harley!
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YES
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TG: i thought about taking his sword
TG: when i was there
TG: but i couldnt
TG: couldnt really bring myself to try to pull it out it was too weird
Even if you did, you’d have to break it in order to wield it - and unlike your regenerating sword, I don't think Bro's katana will be very effective as a half-blade.
GG: dave we have to stop him!!!!!
TG: what
GG: jack! […]
GG: why dont you stop jumping around through time like a maniac and stop being like a hundred daves all the time and come to my house so we can make a plan to kill him??
I’m liking this new, more pro-active Jade. With Rose distracted by Doc Scratch's games, we probably need a new leader, and I think Jade could fit the bill.
However, I don’t think any number of Daves would be enough to take Jack down. That’s exactly what Aradia tried, and we all know how that turned out. If a thousand telekinetic necromancers can't put a scratch on him, I don't think Dave will fare much better.
TG: besides we cant beat him
TG: look what he did to bro and davesprite together
TG: im at the top of my echeladder with all the fraymotifs and i stand no chance
Dave’s already stronger than Future Dave was when he came back to the past. His progress is astounding - but the session's power creep has got so bad that it doesn’t even matter.
Like - let's imagine, for a second, that all four kids attacked Jack with their full power, right now. If they all synergized perfectly, taking full advantage of John's hurricanes, Rose's Horrorterror connections, and all the time duplicates Dave can make....
They'd still be reduced to a fine mist.
Jack has inherited a power strong enough to raze the entire Earth, and none of the kids can touch him. Becsprite initially seemed like an opportunity to match that power, Sun-to-Sun, but Vriska, for her own godforsaken reasons, nixed that plan.
The kids have got nothing. Even their plan to cheat by destroying the Green Sun is probably hopeless, because we know it ultimately serves Doc Scratch's ends, not ours. Things are really dire.
TG: only thing we can do is hold out until the scratch
GG: what is the scratch?
TG: guess i shouldnt really say
TG: since you sort of lead the way in making that plan
And then there's the Scratch plan itself, which is apparently Jade's idea - although I'd be extremely surprised if Doc's grubby little fingers weren't all over this one, too.
Opening rifts in space is certainly Jade's department, so I think she's going to suggest it as a counter-plan to Rose's more risky Sun strategy.
TG: if we cant beat him
TG: all we can really do is exile him to a place where he cant teleport back
TG: which hopefully buys us some time
TG: to try to take out his power source in a crazy suicide mission
A two-pronged approach, then. They trigger the Scratch, push Jack through a rift, and then send Rose's dream self out to destroy the sun before he's able to return.
...man, this is such a dangerous idea. Even if it wasn't being influenced by Doc, it'd still set off some huge alarm bells.
Like - sure, destroying the Green Sun might help this session survive, but what about every other session? Don't they need the Sun, to power their non-corrupted First Guardians? I just think we should maybe think for a second before deleting a critical piece of the reproductive mechanism for the entire multiverse.
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According to the spectagoggles, there are currently 13 Daves scattered around the incipisphere, including Davesprite. That is an absolutely preposterous amount of Daves.
Interesting that you're picking up two Dream Daves. I'd assumed that all his time-travelling duties would be handled by his realself - especially since Dream Dave is missing his sylladex, and therefore his time machines.
You're also picking up Davesprite, which would have convinced me he was still alive if you weren't also picking up Doomed Dave's corpse.
At least there's only one Dave corpse in play. Small mercies.
Hang on…
The Davecount suddenly dropped from 13 to 12. Maybe one of them time traveled away? You hope it doesn't mean what you think it…
Wait, he only died now? I thought he was already dead in the previous image.
Ah, I see what happened - I mistook the section of Quest Bed that Doomed Dave was sleeping on for a pool of blood. He was alive before, which means the spectagoggles don't detect the dead.
But they did detect Davesprite.
You hear that? That's the sound of hope filling my heart.
GG: dave i just saw you, and you were dead! […]
TG: […] dont worry it was just a doomed dave no big deal really […]
GG: what about your… […]
GG: oh no i dont even know if you know about this […]
TG: my bro
TG: yeah jack killed him too […]
GG: is it something you would like to talk about
TG: not much to talk about
TG: this is some pretty serious existence threatening shit going down and some people are going to die i guess
Dave's reaction is cold, but completely understandable. Bro was by far the least parental of any of the Guardians, treating Dave more like an apprentice to be violently trained than a child to be raised.
He probably doesn't know what he feels about his brother's death - and even if he did, he'd hide it behind his shades, as usual.
GG: you were pretty close with him right?
TG: meh it was a pretty bizarre relationship by any standard
TG: fightin off wave after wave of face pumicing puppet ass every day
TG: always being on guard for stealth attacks in the middle of the night while getting up to go to the fucking bathroom
I also wouldn't be surprised if his feelings were closer to relief than grief. After all, Bro's death is a guarantee that he'll never have to deal with the man's puppet ninja horseshit ever again.
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The sophisticated computing technology merged with the crystal ball provides a simple way to see anything going on right now in the incipisphere! How amazing is that?
That's more than worth the price tag. Aside from all the obvious tactical benefits, they may also enable her to take a peek at hitherto unseen parts of the session, such as the Denizens' Palaces.
It also means they can keep an eye on Jack, but that's not as useful as it sounds. He's a First Guardian, and distance is meaningless where he's concerned.
There he is. On the battlefield no less! That's a pretty cute outfit he's got on. You wonder what he did to make it?
You also wonder why he's not answering your messages. Does he even have a computer on him??
He doesn't have anything on him. I'm assuming all his gear is still sitting on his corpse on LOWAS.
He might not be able to retrieve it, either. It's not like his sylladex was physically on his person.
She seemed awfully preoccupied when you spoke with her moments ago and she gave you the code for the crystal ball. You wonder who she could be talking to?
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Another hour later…
...well, first of all, it's an hour later, and they still haven't cleaned up Aradia's body? The disrespect, lmao
It’s the moment of truth, then.
What's going to happen to our spare Dave Strider?
Well, that's that experiment already ruined.
If he dies now, if won't be on his Quest Bed, so we'll never know if he would have otherwise revived. Maybe Terezi is trying to correct this before it's too late.
TG: hello
TG: terezi
TG: whats up
GC: >:[
For a second, I was confused about how Terezi was able to talk to him inside a doomed timeline - but then I remembered how this is supposed to work. As soon as Dave travelled back to the past, he wasn't in a doomed timeline anymore.
But he was still doomed.
It's so fucked that you can actually see his head begin to fall off.
Regrets, Seer?
You don't need to answer. I'm pretty sure those are the first tears you've ever cried onscreen.
Terezi Pyrope is starting to care.
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AA: s0rry ab0ut everything
AA: and all the bad luck y0uve had
AA: y0u didnt deserve it
Aradia never wanted to put Sollux through this, but she felt helpless in the face of the overwhelming tide of fate. She's only recently begun to suspect she could have fought back, and that realization might have been more painful than the idea that she couldn't.
AA: i have t0 g0 n0w […]
TA: you mean for good, wiill ii see you agaiin?
AA: i d0nt kn0w that either
AA: but i guess if y0u d0
AA: pr0bably n0t with y0ur eyes
It seems Aradia does think she might persist in some way, but not in the corporeal world.
Maybe she's going to become an even more ephemeral spirit than before - or maybe she'll show up as a projection in the Dream Bubbles, a realm you can only visit when your eyes are closed.
AA: 0_0
AA: i wish
AA: i c0uld s0meh0w make that em0tic0n smile
AA: 0u0
AA: n0 that l00ks stupid
AA: 0h well
When we first met Aradia, I thought the tragedy of her character was that she could no longer feel.
I was wrong. The tragedy of Aradia's character was that she could always feel, but her feelings were just too painful to acknowledge.
Not until the very end.
And as Aradia goes boom, we still gain no insight into what destroyed her.
My money's still on Eridan.
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CA: anywway a lot of us believve wwere meant to trace the footsteps of those ancestors evven though wwe can nevver knoww em
CA: and on that journey wwe can come across belongings they once had cause wwe wwere hatched to find em and finish their wwork
The human Guardians seemed fully aware of their offspring's special role in their planet's fate. Doubtless the same was true of the troll ancestors - especially if they landed with heirlooms from the Veil.
If any of our trolls had sought out the story of their predecessors, I'm sure they would have discovered some very interesting things indeed.
For no particular reason, I'm suddenly reminded of the fact that Terezi lived next to an ancient Sgrub construct - one which bore the symbol of her family.
And nothing of value was lost.
That being said, I'm a little concerned about Eridan's ability to do this. This is a move we've seen Rose use on him, and it feels like an ominous hint that his powers are a lot stronger than we thought.
If his science wand is at all comparable to the Thorns of Oglogoth, we should all be very nervous.
Looks like we’re getting a timeline refresher.
At the end of their game, Jack attacked the trolls. This event occurred about ten hours before some critical point, which is probably the moment the trolls' session dissolves.
Four hours later, he destroyed Prospit.
Frankly, I'm surprised it took him that long. Maybe he was just fucking around in the session until then.
After an hour dreaming in the Furthest Ring, Karkat woke up, and finally learned about the humans.
And an hour after that, we enter a scene I don’t think we’ve seen before. Judging by Nepeta's dream, we at least know it's prior to the destruction of Derse.
Also….
Is that Tinkerbull's body, somehow removed from its Sprite? Is it a plushie of Tinkerbull? What's going on here?
AA: hi
TA: hii?
AA: i guess i sh0uld say s0mething
AA: bef0re i g0
Aradia appears to have foreseen her own destruction. I used to think that Rose might be responsible - but now Eridan, too, has gained the ability to destroy technology with magic, and he's significantly more likely to use it maliciously.
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GG: aaaaa please dont tell anyone i told you about him! […]
CA: settle dowwn jade youre radically underestimatin the amount of shit i dont givve about this […]
CA: i got bigger ships to sink and soon wwhen im good and ready me and my luminous fuckin science stick havve got a date wwith jack noir
Seems like Eridan's planning to join Vriska.
Correction - he's planning to rejoin Vriska.
If he's trying to restart their kismesissitude, he's going to be sorely disappointed. Vriska is out of his league, and not just as a romantic partner. She's a god, and he's an angry kid with a wand who represents no threat whatsoever to Noir.
CA: wwhys this matter so hush hush anywway
GG: he didnt want me to tell my friends who he really was […]
GG: he was so nice, and it really did feel like i was talking to family, so i really dont think he was making it up
I think your intuition is correct, but that doesn't mean he's specifically your grandson. After all, 'family' is a term which can encompass all sorts of relationships.
GG: i couldnt help but try to imagine his parents…
GG: and more interestingly…….
GG: his grandfather :O
Even if he is your grandson, that doesn't necessarily mean he has a grandfather. As far as I can tell, there's no reason why the Veil's DNA-mixing machine couldn't merge the genes of two women.
For all we know, Pen-Pal could have four biological grandmothers!
CA: that gun i just gavve you is somethin of a hatchright to the kid
CA: happy i could play a role in your dirty stinkin lineage
GG: like an heirloom? i guess it could be
GG: do you even have those? if you dont have parents how could you?
CA: no wwe dont knoww our direct forebears and im pretty sure any attempt to seek out or evven inquire about the supplier of your genes wwould be a fine wway to get yourself killed
I didn't think a troll's genes had an individual supplier.
Based on the fact that their genetic material is combined in the Mother Grub, I've been assuming that each troll is created from a large number of 'parents', whose DNA is mixed in the Mother's stomach.
Obviously, our Sgrub trolls are going to be an exception to this rule, since the game presumably cloned them from twelve Guardians - but Eridan seems to be implying that all trolls have an individual parent.
This doesn't align at all with what we know about troll reproduction. There also seems to be a certain amount of secrecy surrounding this process, since Eridan thinks you'd be killed for looking into it. Is there some sort of conspiracy at play?
CA: but wwevve got our lore and it says wwe all got indivvidual ancestors wwho contribute to most of our genes abovve and beyond wwhat the grubs slurry does
Alright, that makes a little more sense. So trolls are derived from a large mixture of DNA, but they have one true 'parent' who contributes the lion's share of genetic data.
Maybe an embryonic troll starts off as a clone of this parent, and other trolls' genes are slowly spliced into it as it develops.
Again, for the Sgrub trolls, things are a little different. We have reason to believe they were cloned in sets of three, implying that each of them has three genetic donors. Perhaps, then, they each inherited the majority of their DNA from one of these trolls - their 'ancestor' - and only share a small number of genes with the other two.
These ancestors have been mentioned before - quite a while ago, now - and I think they may be the key to solving a major mystery of the Hivebent arc.
Namely, Aradia mentioned her ancestors, and seemed to believe she was following their orders. When Scratch's plans started to reveal themselves, I assumed that he was the one directing Aradia, and was only pretending to be these unseen forebears.
With this new revelation, however, I'm forced to reconsider my stance. What if the Voices were those of the ancestors?
What if Aradia was being instructed by the troll Guardians all along?
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Good question. I've been picturing her as a twentysomething, like myself, and living in her own apartment - but she is a kidsona, after all. Should she be a kid?
Of course, if she's an adult, then Sahlee should be an adult as well. That would mean she's already been taken off to the front lines, and we can't have that.
Let's say that both 'sonas are eighteen, Sally has moved out, and Sahlee was mere weeks from being drafted when the meteors hit. That seems like a good way to split the difference.
I hadn't really thought about Sally's ectobiological parent - but now that I am, I think the funniest possible option is that it's her landlady.
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For flashes, I'll actually get out a pen and paper, and write out my reaction in shorthand. When the flash is over, I transcribe my notes into LibreOffice, and then watch it a couple more times to grab some images. I'll also add any thoughts which occur to me while I'm editing the post.
I've tried a couple of ways to liveblog flashes, and this turned out to be the best. In a way, you get the best of both worlds, because you're seeing both my immediate reactions, as well as any insights I've gleaned after thinking about things for a couple of minutes.
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We'll definitely be following the kids for more than 24 hours. My current prediction is that Act 5 will end at the same time the session does, and the rest of the comic will take place outside of Sburb's normal parameters.
Without the artificial deadline imposed by the Reckoning, it's difficult to estimate the timescale we'll be working with. I could easily see Homestuck spanning just two or three days - and I could just as easily see it spanning months or years.
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GG: i think you are projecting your own attitude on to others […]
GG: rose just sent me a code for a crystal ball, shes my friend and is basically the best! […]
CA: its probably a trap i wwouldnt trust her
CA: she is a cunnin and treacherous sort trust me i knoww her type
GG: wait do you have a thing for her too???
GG: did she reject you or something?
Annihilate him, Jade. This would be a good time to unleash that rage you've been cultivating.
CA: all of her FRAUDULENT MAGICS cannot come close to posin threat to my mastery ovver the TRUEST SCIENCES
CA: an wwith my empiricists wwand i servve as the righteous hope that wwill incinerate delusion and the deluded alike
This dude's on some Methods of Rationality type shit.
I'm not sure why Eridan is on a crusade against magic. He's been insisting it was fake since his original introduction page, and it's pretty clear he has some sort of complex about it. Is there some unseen history here that we're not yet privy to?
GG: wow what are you talking about
CA: so really you should be honored to inherit my old callin
CA: both my armaments and my feud
To be fair to Eridan, he is accomplishing something useful here, even if it's by accident. Jade needs to get that rifle in her pen-pal's hands in order to fulfil the Endgame Bunny's time loop.
Recalling Eridan’s introduction reminds me that this is one of the most powerful riflekind weapons in existence. This should imply that top-tier weapons cost tens of millions of grist...
...but we just saw a weapon that costs much, much more.
Maybe the Proton Cannon has the same damage as the Crosshairs, but it also has an incredibly broken non-combat use.
GG: i have seen this before […]
GG: i am very sure its the same rifle included with johns present […]
CA: probably a cheap imitation of the original […]
GG: i did not provide the weapons!
GG: my penpal did […]
GG: we worked on it together but he supplied the bunnys weapons
GG: im pretty sure hes from the future!
CA: wwhy
GG: because he said hes my grandson
Really?
I suppose being raised by a Sburb veteran would explain why he uses terms like 'boonbuck' in casual speech - but almost nothing else makes sense when viewed through this lens.
If Pen-Pal is Jade's grandson, then he should be from decades in the future - presumably long after the game has ended. This doesn't sound like a problem, until you remember some of the references he made.
As much as it pains me to admit it, the Earth is probably gone for good - which means that any descendants of our Players will be raised somewhere else. Why would someone presumably raised in a completely different universe be so familiar with Earth's culture?
You could argue that he picked up his love of Earth movies from one of the surviving Earthlings, such as adult John - although that raises its own issues, because PP talks to John like he's never met him before. Maybe he died young, and passed his love of movies to PP posthumously - but as you can see, we're really having to stretch things to make this make sense.
Plus, there's an even bigger problem - namely, his 1920s 'accent'. None of the surviving Earthlings have it, and it's not like he just developed it spontaneously. If he was raised by Jade or her child, why does he talk like her grandfather would?
See, I'm still sure that PP is connected directly to Grandpa, and may well be the man himself - which means either PP is lying, or there's something more complicated going on here.
We don't know anything about Grandpa's life after he fled the Crocker household. If he was somehow raised by an adult, post-Sburb Jade, then he could consider her his grandmother, while still talking and acting like the Grandpa Harley we know. Plus, it would explain why he acts like he's from the past, but knows about the future. He already has a history of time travelling - maybe he's been doing it since he was a kid.
Similar to my old theory about Spades Slick, this one is a little too convoluted to be 100% true - but still I think there's something to this idea. Being raised by Jade would neatly explain where he got the bunny's weapons...
Ugh, I don't know! This Pen-Pal really is the biggest curveball this comic has thrown at me. I need to think it over some more.
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