Does this mean anything to you. You beasts
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thinking about the poll about canon vs non-canon ships that didn't define terms, and the current fandom focus on things "going canon," so i made up a scale.
this is NOT a question about whether canon matters to what you ship (or matters at all), just how to define the phrase "canon ship."
many ships start low on the scale and slow burn their way up, so vote for the point when you would have called them "canon." i agonized over the order (especially #4-6) for a day and a half, but i went with the order in which i think joe random with a nielsen ratings box and no tumblr account would notice/call something a romantic relationship.
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I like your Thor meta. Do you think Thor was abusive to Loki in Ragnarok?
Thank you so much anon! So I wanna preface this by saying I did really like ragnarok. I did think parts of it seemed ooc and didn’t feel the same as the two og Thor movies, but it made me laugh and that’s all I can really ask from a marvel movie tbh.
So to answer your question, tentatively no. I don’t think Thor was abusive to Loki in ragnarok and while parts of their relationship/the way they act with each other was exaggerated/flanderized, I don’t think that he was abusive. My reasoning is under the cut because this got longer than I thought LOL
The first thing I see that around ragnarok that frames Thor as abusive is the heightened use of violence towards each other (eg thor throws things at Loki, aims mjolnir at him). While this dynamic isn’t present in the previous movies, it’s also matched via Loki’s actions (eg stabbing Thor in the snake incident, not helping Thor when he’s forced to fight in the arena). Additionally, it doesn’t seem like these thing actually affect/hurt Loki in any way. In avengers 1, Loki literally dropped Thor off the helicarrier (idk if the name is right, I haven’t seen the movie in so long) and stabs Thor, and it’s not like these things severely injure Thor in any way. If we frame Thor’s actions as abuse, we must also frame Loki’s actions as abuse as well. (To all of you that are like “Loki was under mind control”, 1) intention does not change the action, he still gets hurt and 2) even after he’s released from the mind control, he never bothers to apologize)
Secondly, I see people talk about that scene in the tunnel where Loki attempts to reach out to Thor and he doesn’t bother to engage, and personally, I see that as very reasonable. Thor asks if Loki is actually there, sees that he isn’t, and that shapes the entire interaction from there on. In Thor’s pov, Loki hasn’t even bothered to visit him in person. Additionally, it hasn’t even been a day since their father died, which Thor directly thinks Loki is responsible for (rightfully so, since Loki has exiled Odin for years, perhaps making any condition he has worse and unmonitored). Thor does not believe that Loki is reaching out for real. Loki isn’t even reaching out to help him get back to Asgard and stop Hela. Whether or not Loki is genuine in his attempts to connect with Thor, Thor doesn’t believe him, and he has no reason to either.
Besides this, Thor explicitly brings what he’s mad about.
“What would you like me to say? You faked your own death, you stole the throne, stripped Odin of his power, stranded him on Earth… to die, releasing the Goddess of Death.”
Whether or not Loki is responsible for all that, Thor is allowed to be angry. And he’s allowed to act like that. And when he does, Loki gets angry in return and tells him that he hopes he gets hurt in the fight tomorrow. Both of their words here are childish. But only Thor is called abusive? For having a human response to a very complicated situation involving lots of feelings?
When Thor does try and talk to Loki, he does not actually communicate either. He explicitly distances himself by telling Thor that it’s better if he stays on Sakaar. Which brings us to the elevator scene and what comes next:
This is the part that I see the most meta about how Thor is abusive and is manipulative. And honestly, I think while he might be hoping that the reverse psychology works, I don’t think he explicitly tries to manipulate Loki into doing anything.
To me, I think at this point, Thor sees that Loki is trying to bait him into an argument and does not want to indulge that. Loki is the one who tells Thor that Odin’s death will bring them apart. Loki is the one who says he wants to stay on Sakaar. Thor can see that Loki wants Thor to beg him to come back/help him. And he doesn’t want to fall into that same pattern. Thor is right, it is unhealthy, and it’s not one that suits either one of them. Loki is trying to remove himself from the relationship and Thor lets him. It’s not abusive or manipulative, I see it as a genuine moment where Thor tells Loki that he loves him (aka the thought the world of you comment) but he’s not willing to engage in the same dynamic anymore.
And finally, there’s that obedience disk thing. Which, honestly, seeing as Loki was about to betray Thor and sell him out, is not the worst thing Thor could have done. I don’t think that it affects Loki that much, because he does show up looking fine in the end. I’m not saying it’s not a dick move of Thor to electrocute his brother. I’m saying, in context, Thor could have easily killed him to stop him from betraying him. And he doesn’t.
(Also l see the get help scene called abusive because apparently Thor not listening to Loki about whether he wants to do it is abusive? 1) it’s a comedy scene and 2) he does say “do you have a better idea”)
Idk I think that Loki and Thor have a complex dynamic that wasn’t translated great in ragnarok. But I don’t think it was abusive. I think that, yes Thor does act childishly in certain scenes and if he was thinking rationally, he could/should have realized that it wasn’t Loki’s fault that hela was unleashed. But this is not the first time an odinsib has blamed the other instead of their parents (aka Loki blaming Thor about the whole jotun thing instead which is its own discussion).
Again, obv u can have your own ideas and if theres something I missed that you want me to discuss def lmk!
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12-hr update: wrote 50 words
gotta write fic today, shall aim to get chapter 9 of the Arranged Marriage AU done i think then i can relax for another week or so until the lurking task creeps up again.
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