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randomnameless · 2 years

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I saw a thread that argued that you can't have translation without localization and that the latter is always going to be tied to/dependent of the culture of its target audience. What are your thoughts on that especially in relation to FE? I think with this context, 3H/3Hopes(or Nopes) was always going to be different/lolcalized to cater to the Western audience (specifically America and its zeitgiest).

Partly horseshit.

Of course a translation has bias from the person/state doing the translation, and this bias should be taken into account whenever you want to use the translation.

But think about an academic paper, it is not translated, thus localised for scientist Y from country W, it has to be accessible and understandable by every scientist who understands the language you're using.

The target audience is "scientists" but it doesn't mean the paper is modified to cater to a certain audience.

In a way, yeah, finding "equivalent" words is a form of localisation, since you won't find the perfect match, but if a perfect match exists (idk, like contract and the French contrat) I don't think it'd be localisation?

Some other notions/concepts are impossible to translate with a word from the language of the "targeted audience". A "baguette tradition" is a specific type of baguette, and can't be translated as bagel, or the mundane "bread".

So then what? If someone writes "baguette tradition", that person isn't translating, but if they define it later in a bubble or in a footnote, it is still part of a localisation process : to bring something unknown to a targeted audience.

In a way, yes, a translator and ultimately a localiser will always have their own biases, so each translation/localisation has to take it into account.

That being said...

I can understand the “difference” because of the translator/localiser’s bias, but not the “pandering to a specific audience”.

Like, I partly grew up in the 4Kids era, and here in France, we had old anime being, uh, brought to a french audience since, iirc, the 80s. French children (people?) at that time wouldn’t be able to watch a show meant for children if the character had unfrench sounding name like, uh, Ryo Saeba. So it was turned in Nicky Larson.

Joey Wheeler being the “lolcalised” form of Jonouchi Katsuya, because, I suppose, back then, some people really really think US/Western children wouldn’t watch a “cartoon” with un-occidental sounding names.

Usopp (wordplay on Uso meaning lie) became the french Pipo (pipeau means a shitty lie), okay it works as a kind of translation but, uh... no? Just no? Don’t translate names ffs?

I remember the Shaman King anime from 4Kids keeping the “un-occidental” names, and the ceiling was broken, iirc, with the anime versions of Naruto and Bleach. Of course we still had early dubs with “Fire Style” instead of “Katon”, but by the mid 2000s, the barn was open and lo, children (at least here in France, that’s what I can talk about) could listen and read japanese words without a “perfect” translation.

Where am I going?

Well, we went from a ban on anything sounding too “foreign” for a certain audience to accept those names/words for this same audience, because, well, I don’t know, but I’m pretty sure it must have come with a general need and desire to bring the audience something new -

The works weren’t catered to an audience, instead, the audience was brought in that work, in that work’s world and “foreign” culture (i am ashamed but i had my first ramen after watching/reading too much Naruto)

Bleach’s Zanpakuto became common, while the translated “Soul Cutter” (iirc that’s the one?) was never used. Rukia’s deference to her older brother and superiors wasn’t toned down because here in France we never had (afair?) so much formality between siblings, and yet, the localised Bleach materials, let it be anime or manga, kept it.

More mundane, but the senpai/kouhai thingie?

Doesn’t exist here, and yet some works depicted it in it’s complicated mess, without needing to tuned it down to “cater to an audience” who’s not familiar with the concept.

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Now, back to Fodlan...

Suggesting, in 2019, that a certain audience cannot “deal” with a story where a religious organisation is not evil incarnate and someone who starts a conflict based on the “the ends justify the means” might not be completely full of crap is, imho, downright insulting.

We had a lot of people, when FE16 was released, who argued about IS’s POV and if the “unification boner” was a thinly veiled nod to a certain country’s rising (?) nationalism...

But what about the lolcalisation? Is it only playing with preexisting biases or, idk, their whitewashing of an imperialist who fights against “irrationality” and a religion to push her own values on countries she invades is supposed to be a nod at... something ?

For sure, this is a bad faith reading -

And yet, is it really complicated to have a story where a religious organisation that calls itself a church but is actually led by were-dragons who escaped a genocide and just try to help people around - is not the reason why the World is bad?

Take a certain movie that will not be aired in certain parts of the world because two women are holding hands - cultural norms, no matter what you think of them, commended the, idk, publishers not to release say movie in those countries.

What kind of similar thing exists in the “West” regarding... a religious organisation led by a dragon, and an emperor in red who wants to force their “ideals” by invading other countries? Imperialism good so let’s make it better? Religion BaD so lets highlight how it sucks?

And does it justify altering a game and the meaning of its quotes?

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Tl; Dr : Translation and localisation always comes with a bias from the translator/localiser, because they are human beings who were raised in a certain culture and even if they try to be as neutral as possible, they cannot offer a work that is 100% true and matches the original.

That being said, we’re in 2022 now - and while FE14′s dub was an artifact (”Suzukaze? No, our audience is too stupid, let’s shorten it to Kaze instead! Tsubaki? No, Subaki sounds better!”) - I still believe a work shouldn’t be translated/localised to “cater” to an audience, people managed to understand Zanpakuto and Katon, I am pretty sure an audience can also understand that a fictional church led by a dragon is not the Catholic Church, or that religion isn’t an inherently “BaD” concept.

It’s merely my opinion as a consumer and part of the audience of the localised works - but I think I am open-minded enough and ready to engage with a fictional world and its fictional organisations, without needing to fall back on some preexisting biases or concepts I am familiar with. Of course that’s not to say things can look similar to real life issues (i said similar, forget your degrees) and we can’t reflect on that, but it’s always supposed to be a reflection, and not what the audience is engaging with or seeing first.

When you go to a Korean Restaurant, you don’t order mac’n’cheese or a jambon-beurre. Even if that’s what you usually eat. If you end up ordering something that looks and tastes like mac’n’cheese? Then good for you, but it’s not mac’n’cheese. You can’t expect a Koren Restaurant to serve you a jambon-beurre.

If you go there and they only serve you mac’n’cheese or jambon-beurre, what is even the point of going in this restaurant? Why are other customers served somethign else but I still have to eat the same thing I’m used to at home?

alas who am i to talk about those things, i have no degree

#anon #replies #sorry if i took some time i wanted to articulate some thoughts #for sure several restaurants don't serve the 'usual' food served in country X it's always toned down to the general taste of the customers #but it's still something different #in FE Fodlan we had a lolcalisation that embraced the church BaD side #and if they really try to justify it be thinking 'well in our country church bad so i'll rewrite the game to depict church BaD' it's patheti #pathetic damn word limit #the cousin incest being lolcalised? Why not some people are puritans and prefer companions instead #but cousin incest exist in some parts of the world and you can't count on Treehouse to erase it everywhere you could find it #I really have a lot of feelings and thoughts about this way of localising if it wasn't apparent lol #stop taking your audience for plastic bags #they can run the extra mile and use their brains to understand or at least try to grasp a concept they're not familiar with #remember back then we had the fansub's words keikaku means plan #and even manga editors sometimes added some pages to explain X or Y #ultimately I think it all goes down to the respect you have for the original work #and how much you think you can deviate from it to bring a work to an audience #and a good dose of ethnocentrism #lolcalisation woes

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lgbtlunaverse · 8 months

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Nothing will dispell the "the curtains were just blue" myth faster than writing something yourself, because the amount of pretentious symbolism i am putting in my silly little fanfics is ridiculous. I mean SO much with these words, literally every single one of them. This fic has twenty five typos and zero correct uses of punctuation but if there's curtains you bet your ass I put thought into what colour they were.

#writing #fic writing #like this is stuff i'm doing for fun with my perfectionism meter turned down as far as i can get it #and i am still thinking about it A LOT #talk to me about how in red string fic jgy perceives the memory block both as syrup and as mud but nmj thinks it feels like blood #it's just a thing in their heads that mentally feels kind of thick and sticky but they both made something different of it #it's about issues with cleanliness / lies as a way to craft an illusion of a better lopking world vs the constant violence nmj lives in

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poorly-drawn-mdzs · 15 days

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The squad of all time has arrived on scene.

#dungeon meshi #mithrun #Cithis Ofri #Pattadol #Fleki #Lycion #Otta #Happy Canary Debut Day! These guys wont really get to be very present until the next season of Dungeon Meshi #But I can still be excited to see them animated!!!#Shout out to Pattadol - I also tend to occupy 'The Punchline' niche of the friendgroup.#The punchline differs from 'The Jester' who willingly absorbs the jokes. The punchline is often unwillingly the joke.#You are either the one no one likes or the well beloved little-sibiling-esque friend. Good luck figuring out which!#Yes it is canon that Otta is into Women. YES she dates younger women and dumps them when they age.#This isn't a fan made bit. It's real.#Dungeon Meshi has no romance but it does have canonically queer characters.#Shipping is fine and all but it is a running theme in the series than *everyone* who expresses romantic interest in someone -#-finds that love unrequited. Just something to be mindful of to measure your expectations of this series!#Ah! In other housekeeping notes; I'm going to *try* and add Alt Text to my dungeon meshi thurday posts going forwards.#I might not be able to do it day of but I will try to get it done within a week.

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loumandiel · 1 year

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I feel like many people have a fundamental misconception of what unreliable narrator means. It's simply a narrative vehicle not a character flaw or a sign that the character is a bad person. There are also many different types of unreliable narrators in fiction. Being an unreliable narrator doesn't necessarily mean that the character is 'wrong', it definitely doesn't mean that they're wrong about everything even if some aspects in their story are inaccurate, and only some unreliable narrators actively and consciously lie. Stories that have unreliable narrators also tend to deal with perception and memory and they often don't even have one objective truth, just different versions. It reflects real life where we know human memory is highly unreliable and vague and people can interpret same events very differently

#the way some people (usually lestat fans lol) talk about louis being an unreliable narrator has frustrated me #i still insist louis' unreliableness is mostly subtle (passing quickly over things he doesn't want to think about #presenting things that factually happened in a way he can build a story that makes sense to him #not knowing what lestat is thinking and feeling so interpreting him differently than lestat himself probably would)#rather than he's telling something that didn't really happen or is under armand's mind control or something #like for example i think it's been made very clear all the abuse really happened they're not gonna suddenly pull the rug from under it #if anything i feel lestat is going to turn out to be even worse than louis perceived him when we hear people who are not in love w him lol #keanu.txt

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risestarkiss · 5 months

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Rise Ramblings #325

So, we also know that this boy is bad at basketball.

Like, really bad.

Yeah, th-that was just terrible.

But, it made me think.

How is this ninja scientist so bad at this game? It’s just hand-eye coordination, after all.

I mean...

His shots aren't terrible, but they just bounce right off the hoop/backboard. It's almost as if he's aiming at a target-

So, wait. What’s the difference between basketball and pizza darts?

...the arc. Arcing the ball requires a light hand. In other words, it requires restraint.

I believe, that Donatello has great aim, but is terrible at restraint because, when he tries to toss something, it misses the mark.

But, when he throws something...

it’s deadly.

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spiderziege · 4 months

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elven castle

#geminitay #hermitcraft #hermitcraft season 9 #my art #i had a bunch of things i technically still wanna draw for s9 but then i stopped drawing for three weeks #but heres something #also used a different line brush and skipped the shading kinda

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tagerrkix · 8 months

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rage.

#welcome to today's episode of “me trying to draw 76 different emotions at once”#rage+grief???sorrow??? anguish?????#hmmmmmmm #definitely pain #and a hint of fear #no but like he's angry but there's sadness underneath you get what i'm saying #the kind of rage caused by something that left you traumatized and you just can't stop thinking about how unfair it was #like “i didn't deserve this nobody deserves this” kind of rage #well anyway #i don't even care about anatomy at this point #just let me see how much i can distort the face and still have it somewhat resemble the character #didn't mean to draw him crying again but my hand slipped oops #astarion #bg3 #baldur's gate 3 #bg3 astarion #baldurs gate 3 #astarion fanart

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soracities · 1 year

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i dont know how else to put this but to approach books (or any media, really) solely for the sake of relatability is genuinely incredibly heartbreaking......to have such little (or such unwilling) imaginative scope that you cannot stretch yourself, even marginally, in a different direction to what you’ve known or are used to knowing when the very POINT of stories is to transport you somewhere else, into someone else, so you can do just that........when fran lebowiz said a book “is supposed to be a door!” and george saunders said good prose “is like empathy training wheels” they were right!!! they were so so so SO absolutely entirely right!!!!!

#thinking about that last post still and i'm having so many thoughts #that people have relatability as the sole criterion is astonishing to me #like how else are you going to develop variegated textures in your relationships w others?#not to be dramatic but it seems like a little death to me. truly.#everything i read as a child and teenager was expressly something as different from my world as possible. bc i wanted to relate as something #other than me #once again it is. heartbreaking #truly it is #p #book talks #idir lúibíní

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plumadot · 4 months

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e v e r y t h i n g b u r n s

#iiiiiiiii just wanted to try something different #still in angsty mood #boat boys had such a sad yet appropriate end #plume art #double life smp #traffic smp #boat boys #smalletho

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fmayyy · 3 months

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Some more human Al’s

Not a deer yet but definitely a party animal 🤙

#alastor #human alastor #alastor fanart #hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel fanart #my art #still not really happy with the way I draw him but idk I’m getting there!#my style is just funamentally sooooooo different from the style of the series #that translating it is sooooo hard wahhhhh #but I will work on it some more and eventually land on something I’m happy with #he just doesn’t look deranged enough yet but WERE GETTING THERE #1k #best

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beaulesbian · 11 months

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- [Nimona]:You should be questioning everything right now. The will of Gloreth, the Institute, the wall. What's it all really for? - [Ballister]: For protecting the realm. - [Nimona]: Oh, you mean from villains like you? Or monsters like me?

#something something we win!!#and something something all the parallels that make me crazy #nimona #nimonaedit #nimona movie #nimona netflix #ballister blackheart #ballister boldheart #ambrosius goldenloin #netflixedit #mine #gif:nimona #gif:movies #all allegories and queerness its just beautiful!!#lgbt #lgbtedit #nimona spoilers #i still have too many thoughts about the whole story #especially nimona's sad realization about the kid being afraid of her bc the society taught her to be afraid of different things #ballister's journey is what makes it all even more visible bc he doesnt trust her at first #and has to unlearn a lot of things but he starts to see her as a person and sees her!! because theyre so similar! theyre the same in a way #and gloreth's journey is similar - where she was told what to think but she didnt question it and immediately turned against nimona #and then the way the director enforces the gloreth's will of keeping them all in something like a cage (wall) without questioning anything #and whover steps out is seen as a threat... yeah just overall really amazing movie.. i have a lot of thoughts

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welcometogrouchland · 4 months

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ANOTHER SKETCH DUMP! Featuring more of me playing with lineless art. Batman reborn era trio (dick, damian and steph) I miss you...when will you return from war. Also featuring Steph designs bc I've seen ppl dissatisfied w/ her current look, some good mom Talia, and Jason Todd poetry club. Duke is confused not that Jason would start a poetry club but that he'd have such mid poetry opinions. (ID in Alt)

#dc comics #batfamily #damian wayne #stephanie brown #dick grayson #talia al ghul #duke thomas #cassandra cain #mine #woo new art tag. please god let me keep this up all year #uhh anyway yeah! still a big backlog of sketches but i got burnt out which means i had time to collect some #i feel like my art looks. extremely different w/o lines compared to with? idk i worry that's it weird/off-putting #but hey at the end of the day I'm hardly worrying about my brand integrity on tumblr dot com #duke and cass being at poetry club is based on them canonically being into poetry and for a good while duke and jason got along well #Steph is there for both jason and cass' emotional support (unfortunately there's a design flaw. she can't do both simultaneously)#(which is fine bc cass is fleeing the scene at the idea of having to casually hang out with jason)#(they're the exact amount of similar and more importantly different that it's like putting two firecrackers together. bad)#i really like the steph mask designs... it'd be fun to do something with them but idk what y'know?#I'm just like. if we're assuming that her mask has to be different from both babs and cass then this is what I've got as alternatives #i mostly wanted to practice character interaction with the talia and damian one... and also i love them #looking at james gunns batman movie proposal. you keep your hands OFF HER MR GUNN #please if shes evil in a movie they're never gonna let her be good in the comics again 😭#dc when you inevitably cave and do your next big reboot let the ppl finally have the son of the demon origin (w/ tweaks of course)#idk it's canon in my heart. heartcanon if you will <3 #anyway yeah uhhhhhh enjoy?

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poorly-drawn-mdzs · 4 months

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Lan Wangji Goes To Lotus Pier AU: Part 3: Enveloping Feelings.

(Part 1, Part 2, Part 4 (soon))

#poorly drawn mdzs #mdzs #lan wangji #Yungmeng Jiang training arc AU #I wanted to try out a different paneling style for this one - sorry I'm a day late! (there will still be a post tomorrow to keep on track)#The original 3 panel comic idea was fine but the point of this new schedule was to take time to push myself a bit more.#I was taking a look back through some comic artists I felt inspired by #and I really loved how Lynda Barry fills her gutters with patterns and doodles!#Obviously I'm not going as absolutely wild with it as she does but it was a great exercise!#I truly think the gutters are the most important and most overlooked part of any comic. There's lots going on in that space.#It's the same with timeskips. The implied movement between moments that we don't see changes depending on how wide that gap is #You're here for the funny tags so here's some that ties this time talk together:#I think LWJ was thinking about that second note from day 2 but it took him 7 days of hazing to commit it to paper.#I think he sends it a day later and immediately regrets it. Chasing down the messenger and everything.#You know if something actually happened to his brother he would never ever forgive himself for putting the bad vibes out there.#Third time skip was the hardest because there was so many possible flavours of jokes here. Day 8/9 was a personal favourite.#day 14 was also funny (week by week). I think the debate on 'how long does lwj take to catch feelings' is more or less:#'how long does it take for him to arrive at a particular stage of grief and yearning (and awareness of it all)#This is a symphony. There is an act by act structure. Every day he is fighting to keep his old sensibilities. He is losing so badly.#(I'll be returning to the main comic soon but there is more of this AU to come!)

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quantumshade · 3 months

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girls when. figurative death in doctor who. lost to a parallel world. memory erased. stuck in another time period. in between one heartbeat and the next.

#bill also has a figurative death but it works a little differently than the others.#because she's Still There after her death. she holds on. and then becomes something new #also clara's is the most literal & i wholly believe she does go back to die on trap street #doctor who #delia.txt #i have more that i will add on to this post

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batfamhyperfixation · 1 year

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New Robin Tim: *Just sitting there happily watching the Incredibles with Dick and Bruce*

Dick and Bruce: *secretly watching Tim and glancing at each other every time Syndrome comes on screen*

#they are terrified of cutsy little tim like their stomachs drop any time something even minor might tick Tim off #look so tim forced his way into the robin/sidekick role #syndrome tried that #syndrome became a supervillain who tried to kill mr. incredible and did kill many more supervillains #isnt Tim like a supervillain in different universes?#look all I'm saying is I feel like Dick and Bruce would see the parallels between the two and be thankful they said yes to Tim as Robin #they would be like 'thank god we didnt fight him too much cause now we dont have to deal with life mimicking art'#but it is always in the back of their minds and they always have that little voice pointing out he could still become syndrome on them #tim drake robin #tim drake #bruce wayne #dick grayson #incorrect batfamily quotes #batman #bat family #batfam #batkids

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danicloth · 6 months

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It’s cold 🩷🩵…

My delulu is slowly coming back =w=✨

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