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thatblondeperson · 1 year

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What did you think of the Robin/Spoiler special that came out around 2008?

It's definitely an interesting special. The timeline on this is way iffy. It definitely takes place after Robin issue 174 but where Tim is with Zo and Steph is a bit fuzzy. It's before they had their falling out because Tim is still calling Steph his sort of not girlfriend in issue 177.

And neither of them know if they're dating or not in the special.

On one hand, they gave Steph friends which is a first in a very long time. It's a weird group to give her given that they're loose canons in a law-breaking way, but on the other hand that makes sense for Steph. She seems to want to be a good influence while still being able to relax and let loose and I love that for her. Too bad nothing ever came of this.

It's very clear that Stephanie still has feelings for Tim, which carries over into their collision issues in their 2009 arcs. I think she does genuinely hold those feelings until they team up or hang out and by then she's kind of bursting to the point where it's all cloudy. It's nice to see the traces here because I think it's integral to how the two of them work, always sort of holding those feelings. Putting a pin in them to address later, circumstances willing.

I do love that we actually got an idea of what Stephanie went through in her time away, what she did, who she was. It's a shame they wrote her as having what seemed like a year of growth away from Gotham, and then obliterated it later.

She's helping Leslie, gaining medical expertise. She's absolutely beautiful in this little arc too.

But despite the new surroundings, she's still Steph. She wants to do more, be more than what she is. She's dreaming of Spoiler.

And it ends up taking her away from her new environment.

She is who she is.

I think it's a genuinely sweet little look at Stephanie's character. How she's been trying to piece herself back together, why she comes back, why she'll always come back. She can't sit still, she needs to have outlets, and she needs to help others. It's nice to have a kind of resting point to examine where she and Tim are, and I love love love how it's all one big diary entry. It's personal, it's soft, it's optimistic.

It's a checkpoint, anon, but I think it's a fairly good one. If only everything hadn't gone to shit right after because this would have been a nice, mellow transition into Stephanie's Batgirl run. Allowing her to figure out who she is, where her p[lace is and always has been, and moving on and up from there, on comfortable terms with Tim as well. Not that I don't love the angst, but it could have come from general awkwardness and the palpable tension between them, without it being about distrust. They already had shared trauma from several other places. We could have worked with all of that and gotten a very similar, but less character decimating, outcome.

Alas.

#timsteph #tim drake #stephanie brown #robin iii #spoiler #robin iv #red robin #batgirl #personal #ask tbp

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hintofelation99 · 3 years

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Batfamily sorted into Hogwarts houses?

Ooohhhh a classic, I love it! Tbh I have no clue how controversial my opinions are here, like honestly each member fits several houses well. So I just went with what felt best to me, but I'd love to hear other's opinions!

First let's go over the main traits of each house, these are the traits I will be focusing on.

Gryffindor -> Bravery, daring, nerve, and confidence

Hufflepuff -> Hard work, dedication, patience, loyalty, and fair play

Ravenclaw -> Intelligence, knowledge, curiosity, creativity, and wit

Slytherin -> Ambition, leadership, determination, cunning, and resourcefulness

Bruce

-> Hufflepuff: I feel like this one will be rather controversial and honestly it was pretty difficult to decide on. But I think his overall dedication to the mission is what sold it for me. Like that's one of his more consistent character traits, he values the mission above all else. And I don't think of that value or dedication as coming from a place of ambition, but rather a place of loyalty. Honestly Batman's relationship with Gotham really exemplifies both patience and dedication, at least it does in my mind. Hufflepuff is also sometimes thought of as the house that accepts all, so people who don't have a good designation can go there, which is pretty on point with Bruce adopting a shit ton of kids.

Dick

-> Gryffindor: This one might be a tad cliche, but I think that it fits. Because all of the batfam is daring and brave, but Dick takes so much joy from these traits. He’s known for defying gravity and having fun doing it. He’s also the typical confident older brother, like he definitely has insecurities but overall he’s a pretty confident guy. He’s a leader who paved the way for Robins and continues to protect the rights of young heroes. He’s known for being super protective of his family and is willing to make sacrifices for them. Also he brave enough to design a custom that had no pants and confident enough to run around in that costume.

Babs

-> Ravenclaw: Babs the oracle, she’s basically the definition of knowledge. She definitely exemplifies other houses as well but her dedication to knowledge and intelligence definitely put her in Ravenclaw for me. After being paralyzed a lot of people thought she would give up being a vigilante, but instead she turned information into a weapon and a shield. Instead of giving up she created a new and now invaluable position. She isn’t just smart, she’s clever and quick thinking, always ready for any situation.

Jason

-> Hufflepuff: Okay, so in a lot of ways Jason mirrors Bruce. He’s incredibly loyal to his home, has strict rules that he (mostly) stands by like don’t hurt kids and no abusers get no mercy (and yes I’m using the terms rules loosely here). But honestly what sold the whole ‘Jason is hufflepuff’ thing for me is how protective/kind his is of crime victims, specifically women and children. He was a crime lord who fought to for kids, who didn't tolerate abuse, and who protected prostitutes. And yeah that's all super brave and very Gryffindor-esque, but in my mind it all comes from a place of genuine kindness, and that's what makes him a Hufflepuff to me.

Cass

-> Hufflepuff: Cass is deadly, she could snap just about anyone like a twig, but she's also a complete cinnamon roll. She's a sweetheart who adores her family and, for the most part, likes people. Cass is kind and sweet and she literally booped Batman on the nose. Like if that isn't the most Hufflepuff thing, than I don't know what is. She's just the epitome of 'soft cute Hufflepuff,' but also never forget that she can easily kill you.

Tim

-> Ravenclaw: In my opinion (and I think also canonically but I'm not 100% on that) Tim is the smartest bat. Tim literally outsmarted Ra's Al Ghul and he figured out Batman's identity when he was just a child. And he's not just 'I know a lot of things' smart, he's cunning and knows how to plan for any outcome, how to out wit others, how to lie to Batman. Like in the Red Robin arc his Tim's side quest is outsmarting the league of assassins and pissing off Ras Al Ghul. That's such a Ravenclaw (and baller) move.

Steph

-> Gryffindor: Steph had the nerve to put on a purple suit, she was daring enough to hit Robin with a brick, and she was brave enough to become Batgirl even after her encounter with Black Mask. She's bold and shameless in all the best ways. Like Steph isn't the greatest fighter or most skilled bat, but she's bold and fearless and that's what makes her such a great hero.

Duke

-> Slytherin: This one took me forever to decide on, but I realized that Duke has all the smarts of a Ravenclaw and all the bravery of a Gryffindor. Traits that both fit perfectly into Slytherin. He's cunning and smart and an amazing leader and so determined. Duke lead the 'We Are Robin' movement and made his life goal to out riddle the Riddler. Honestly he's the perfect mix of smart and brave and really exemplefies the best of the Slytherin traits.

Damian

-> Slytherin: This one is a bit lack luster and a bit typical, but I do think it's fitting. He's cunning and ambitious and really values his heritage. Damian knows his life goals, he knows where his heritage can take him, and he will do anything to reach his full potential. And I do think that he has some Hufflepuff undertones, undertones that come out even more around animals and Jon, but overall he is a Slytherin.

And wowie, I'm done. This took waaayyyyyy longer than expected, so sorry for that. Honestly when I saw this ask I was like 'oh, cool, easy!' then I tried to answer and holy shit. I went back and forth so much and could not decide. So after many days and much thought this is what I ended up with. That being said I did really love this ask bc it was super fun.

Also srry if there are any typos but if I keep trying to edit this I will never finish bc I will keep changing my mind.

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stxleslyds · 3 years

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As much as people love the whole batfamily fanon thing I just can't forget how if we're talking about canon a lot of its members don't really care/interact or talk to each other.

Cass wouldn't like Jason cause of her views on killing

Dick hasn't really shown much investment in Cass

DC writers forget that Cass and Steph are characters, I've got no problem with fanon but honestly it ain't gonna work out lol

Hello there Anon!

I think that the Bat Fandom is (loosely) divided in two groups, the ones that know and are aware that fanon only works in fandom and the ones that strongly believe that their version of batfamily is better and can easily replace the “batfamily” dynamic in comics.

Like sure, fandom’s version of batfamily is cute and fluffy but I don’t think for a second that it is better written or a good replacement for the mess that we have in canon.

One of my biggest pet peeves is when people say that fandom’s version of these bat-related characters are better written. Like, I am sorry but no. These are all the same character template with one distinctive characteristic that is exaggerated enormously. It is a good thing to have as a fanon thing to enjoy and make headcanons about but we cannot lie to ourselves either, fanon characterizations are also bland but like in the opposite direction of canon.

I absolutely agree about Cass and Jason. Cass would not like Jason at all and I don’t think that she would be willing to work with him. In Jason’s case, I think that he wouldn’t care about Cass’s existence but it would piss him off that there is someone so much like Bruce in terms of the “no killing rule”.

About Dick and Cass, well, things are more complicated there. Dick used to have a solid relationship back in the day, before the New 52, and like many things when it comes to Dick, it was taken away and completely erased. Dick’s only interactions with Cass happened in Batman & Robin Eternal, which was a complete reboot of her character introduction and then a few Nightwing issues ago she appeared in the “batfamily” chat after Dick gave his charity speech. So, yeah, Dick isn’t present in Cass’s life but that just a new DC take, he used to have a nice relationship with her before. She even had a wonderful relationship with Tim that now doesn’t exist but at least she gets along well enough with Duke.

“DC writers forget that Cass and Steph are characters, I've got no problem with fanon but honestly it ain't gonna work out lol”

Oh yeah, this is where the big problem is at, and if I may I will rant about this a little bit because Cass and Steph being side-lined or forgotten has to do with the fact that DC wants Barbara Gordon to be their forever Batgirl.

Cass and Steph had a very nice place in the “batfamily” back in the day, they were solid characters that had lots of fans and they actually developed into being Batgirls with the help of Barbara as Oracle (as well as Dick and Tim). Back in those days the batfamily made sense and felt closer, they were less people in the family and DC actually spent time developing these dynamics and relationships.

Those characters also had other relationships and dynamics outside of Bruce/Batman. The most important one was Barbara’s relationship with the Birds of Prey, she had moved forward in her real and vigilante life. She was an adult woman who used a wheelchair and had grown out of the mantle of BatGIRL, she had a team of women by her side and she had decided to train to girls to take over Batgirl.

It was perfect, and it worked. But one day DC decided that Barbara should be younger and able-bodied. And because they did that, they made her Batgirl again (a massive downgrade), by giving her Batgirl back they did two other things, they made Cass and Steph’s existence a complicated thing AND they slowly erased the true concept of the Birds of Prey.

So, we were left with a Barbara Gordon that was aged down to Dick’s age, so DC could profit even more from the ship wars and they trapped adult and disabled Babs inside a teenager version of her that had completely devolved.

Batgirl Barbara is an absolute for DC, they love to pretend that she was the original Batgirl and that she has been the only one to wear the mantle. They also love to make her able-bodied because DC has always been ableist.

The only reasons why DC teases Cass and Steph in Batgirl costumes like they did in Future State is because they know it hypes people up and it sells books.

Right now, we are having a completely unnecessary event where Barbra is Batgirl AND Oracle and she fighting an evil version of Oracle. Yeah, because that’s another thing DC loves to do, villainizing Oracle, so people grow more distant to that Barbara characterization.

And the fact that Barbara is nowadays both Batgirl and Oracle (and able-bodied) is a huge insult to Cass and Steph’s characters who need to be brought up again into the spotlight because we are lacking solid female characters in the beloved “batfamily”, Barbara isn’t only horribly characterized but she had her own book taken away, so now she is the annoyingly ever present character that appears in Nightwing because DC loves to cater their books to shippers that don’t see characters beyond the relationships that they like.

Well, I really got carried away there but yeah, fanon’s batfamily will never work in canon and it only works in fanon in a superficial way because their versions of these characters are completely different from the characters as we actually know them.

As a Jason person I can honestly say that fanon Jason is nowhere near as interesting as canon Jason, and fanon Jason is as bland and dumb as Lobdell’s Jason and I will die on that hill.

Anyway Anon, thank you for sending me your ask and I hope you have an amazing day!

#jason todd #dick grayson #cassandra cain #stephanie brown #barbara gordon #batgirl #fanon vs canon #batfamily #batfam #dc comics #asksss

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