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morkhan · 2 years

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If we are meant to accept that every single evil that has befallen Hawkins across the entire series was, in fact, Henry Creel acting through various creatures he controls, then I can think of only one reason for him to abduct Will Byers in the first episode.

He thought he was Eleven.

Think about it. A creature under Henry's direct control gets warped into Hawkins Lab, and it's like coming home for him. He immediately starts murdering absolutely everyone in sight, picking up exactly where he left off all those years ago.

But then he leaves the lab.

When Will encounters him, he seems to be standing in the middle of the road, just... waiting for someone. We know that Henry showed Eleven how to escape the lab, and he would know she was still around because it was her making psychic contact with his creature that opened the gate. So of course he would look for her. And when he couldn't find her in the lab, he would look for her outside, along the path he showed her. That's where he encounters Will, who he notably does not kill, but takes.

Now, this is where it gets interesting. See, Demogorgons do not have eyes. They definitely possess some kind of sensory organs, but eyes ain't among them. So he didn't confuse them based on looks. I can't imagine that a little boy who just got finished playing D&D with his friends in a basement would smell anything like a little girl who had just been in a sensory deprivation tank. It doesn't get the chance to taste or touch him before it starts chasing him. Sound? Maybe. Maybe it followed a small, shrill voice, and the sound of tiny footsteps.

Or maybe, just maybe, Henry was using his other senses. The ones he has access to that very few others would. Maybe he was trying to sense someone who was like him, under the assumption that, after the massacre, there was only one such person left in the world.

And maybe, after he abducted the person he had sensed, and brought them to his world where he could get a better look at them... maybe he realized he was wrong.

#stranger things #henry creel #vecna/henry/one #will byers #eleven #Look I will die on the Will Byers has powers hill #HE DESERVES THEM DANG IT #I need to believe all those parallels between Will and Henry are purposeful #And not just creators accidentally recycling imagery because they are working from limited references

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conflictofthemind · 4 days

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Thoughts on "Escape from Camazotz"

Oppressive Suburbia, Conformity, and Season 5 Themes

I've long thought that a major focus of Season 5 will be the contrast between the families of The Wheelers and The Byers, and exploring how non-traditional family environments can be freeing vs the oppressive structure of the nuclear family.

In a Wrinkle In Time, Camazotz is a planet controlled by the big bad of the book, the "IT", who forces the citizens into a conformity that resembles American suburbia. All of the houses the same, the citizens the same, doing the same things at the same time without individual identity. Without anything different. Different means a lot of things, but with Stranger Things dropping different in reference to Will's identity and the presumable themes of this season, it will heavily codify as queerness and how it threatens the cisheterosexual family model.

Henry was raised in the 1950s, a decade still revered by conservatives for it's traditional family dynamics that supposedly were the peak of culture and happiness for all. That was all a lie, of course, and Henry knew so as he shows to Nancy and Eleven during his monologue. The second most conservative decade aside from the 1950s in American society is widely considered to be the 1980s.

The Creels will serve in parallel to The Wheelers; the worst example of what they could become and the damage that this type of family could do to a child that is different in any way. Notice how Vecna selectively shows Nancy visions of The Wheelers dying, but not anyone else she may consider family or friends (like Jonathan).

That is; unless they change their ways and come together as a healthy functioning family facing their traumas, The Wheelers will be toast.

Karen has been moved up to a main character role this season. Ted's actor says the father starts to show up more for Holly (hold that) and realizes he wants to act differently. Holly has been recast. Finn has said Mike goes on a much more personal journey this season, and steps up as a leader.

Oh, also: the catalyst for all of this is that Holly goes missing. The contrast will help show how the Byers (including El and Hopper here) were able to pull together and help solve Will's disappearance, versus how the Wheelers as a closed off nuclear family grapple with Holly's vanishing.

Each of the Byers is in some kind of a non-1950s conformist relationship, but particularly Will (not in one now but we all know he will be). I think El might represent, after she breaks up with Mike, the fear of the unmarried woman being satisfied without a husband. The above shot really emphasizes my point.

I predict that Will will end up coming out to his family rather early on, and we will see all of them immediately accept him with little surprise or push-back. Will is a visible gay man who comes from an open minded non traditional family (divorced, non-married, adoptive) that is willing to have honest conversations.

But this theme will place the most focus on the Wheelers. Mike is the main character of said family and this will particularly focus on his arc, and his acceptance of his queerness in the midst of suburban conformity.

He is not visible, he comes from a Reagan-supporting family who don't communicate with each other. He is not particularly close with his family like Will is. He pushes his feelings down and tries his damn hardest to be normal despite it all. His trauma hasn't really been addressed at all. He is falling back into his usual habits - the one thing he dared to do different (grow his hair long) has gone back to how it was.

It's not all doom and gloom though. This season above all will be a redemption arc of the American nuclear family, how they choose to escape their conformity and learn to be there for each other, thus overpowering Vecna. Not that the Wheelers are going to end this personally.

"Great, more hysteria. Just what we need". "It's the news, now indistinguishable from the tabloids".

#stranger things #mike wheeler #the wheelers #the byers family #byler #will byers #st5 speculation #henry creel #the specificity of this title alone and the themes gives me no doubt that these are all real #i also think this is the episode where byler is canonized and where mike finally escapes conformity #holly wheeler #ted wheeler #karen wheeler #i didnt really mention nancy at all sorry girl #if youre reading this PLEASE search up my username on youtube you will find it SO RELEVANT

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erikiara80 · 1 month

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About Will

Last year the Duffers said that in S5 Will takes center stage again, and now they're even telling us how the season starts, with the flashback of Will in the UD. That's why I think the reveals about him should be huge, like the ones about Henry and El in S4.

This makes me happy. Will and his story are my favorite thing, and I have so many questions.

Was Will really just in the wrong place at the wrong time, a random victim who later became the brother of Vecna's actual target, Eleven?

Maybe. But I'll be honest, I think this would be disappointing. Most of the audience already believes that. All these years, all the mystery surrounding Will, and in the end it was just to hide Vecna, who was introduced in S4, so when we see S5 it's not even a plot twist anymore? Hm.

There could be an interesting parallel with Henry winding up in Dimension X tho. Wrong place at the wrong time. But Henry developed powers. What about Will, who ended up in the UD? Also, if he was just in the wrong place, why did they make his abduction so different from all the other attacks? It's just because it was the first one and they wanted it to be cool? Again, disappointing, imo. And if the reason was just "make the scene cool", I don't know why in other seasons they kept making parallels between the Demogorgon opening the Byers' door, something it only does in 1x01, and El opening a LOT of doors with telekinesis.

I think it's more likely that Will's flashbacks in S5 will be like El's flashbacks in S4. They made us believe that Eleven killed all the other numbers, only to reveal later that it's not what really happened. I expect something like that for Will too. Maybe at first, everything seems to confirm that he was just a random victim, and then we find out that it's not true. Or he was a random victim, but then, like Henry, he developed psychic abilities.

Speaking of that

Does Will have powers or not?

I am a Will-has-powers truther, this is not a mystery lol. But does it make sense in the story? (some thoughts here) Does he have powers like Harry Potter, or the Turtle (here), or Bastian, or he's like Peter Bishop, Marty McFly and Frodo Baggins? Noah said that Will's superpower is his heart, but you know, you can have that and also powers. Plus, in S4 they connect the concept of time travel to emotions, so if there's a timeloop or something like that, and Will's name is on the grandfather clock...

Maybe his abilities are different from anything we've seen. Maybe something more connected to the UD. I'm just saying, why making him a wizard/cleric, if he's just a normal kid?

For example, they never really explained why he's still so connected to Vecna and, I suspect, the UD (because he is also like Radagast, and the kid in Poltergeist, who gets kidnapped because of her powers) Yes, Max seems to have answered that question: when Vecna makes a psychic connection, you are marked. In fact, at some point she even says that she can still feel him. But when she's in his mind lair, she doesn't feel his thoughts. She says that he was surprised and didn't want her there... but he actually says that. Also, they would really answer the questions about the big mystery of Will's connection to Vecna like that, when he's not even the focus of the scene?

That's why I think the answer is more complex for him. Max can't feel Vecna's thoughts or feelings, Will can, like Harry can feel Voldemort. Could the reason be that he was connected to the hive mind? We can't be sure, he's the only one who survived a possession. There are no particles left in his body (as far as we know) or he would've died in S2. So, why is the connection still there and so strong, that the moment he's back in Hawkins, he can feel that Vecna is hurting and wants to destroy everything?

Why in S2 Will knows that the evil wants to kill everyone but him? And why would Vecna/Mind Flayer want to kill everyone but a random kid with no powers, whose only ability was to hide from a monster for a week? Henry Creel considered all the lab kids, people with powers, inferior to himself and Eleven, but for some reason he wanted a sensitive child who's just good at hiding? It doesn't make sense to me.

In the game, they seem to give us the answer. Well, they don't explain if Will was just in the wrong place at the wrong time on Nov 6, but they say that the reason he is the key and Vecna wants him, is that he wants to use him to find Eleven.

If this is true... Henry/Vecna needed Eleven to open a door, so he makes her make a psychic contact with a Demogorgon. When the gate opens, he lets the creature kidnap/kill random people. Then realizes that he can find Eleven, if he uses the only victim he is letting hide in the UD because, reasons. But when she finally is in the void with Will, instead of killing her, he interrupts the contact with Will, goes to Castle Byers, takes him to the library, and impregnates him with a little Demogorgon. And then? What would've happened if Joyce hadn't found Will? We still don't know if the tendril was killing him or giving him oxigen, like the facehugger does in Alien (the parallel with Sarah could be a hint tho), because we don't know what happened to Barb. If she died in the pool and then was taken to the library, or if it's the tendril that killed her.

If Will was actually dying, then the answer in the game doesn't make sense. If Vecna just wants to use him to find and kill Eleven, he wouldn't have tried to kill him. Unless that whole process was supposed to turn Will into Zombie Boy, a creature of the UD, similar to Vecna, who could find Eleven. That's a bit complicated, tho.

Not to mention the whole possession in S2. Again, let's say that Vecna didn't want to kill Will in the library, but just turn him into a monster. He failed. So, when Will is home, he makes him have visions, then possesses him, with the intent of killing everyone but him. Because he wants him to find and spy Eleven. But in the 1959 flashback, in TFS, and in the game, we see that Henry can read any mind. So, sorry but why does he need Will, specifically, to find Eleven?

Also, if the particles can just possess you in a vision and then appear in our world, why didn't they possess more people? Easier to find El, and even if you lose Will, you still have the others. It's what the Mind Flayer does in S3. The big difference? In S3 the particles are already in our world.

So I wonder if Will is the only one Vecna/Mind Flayer can possess like that, because they were already connected before the possession

Ok, in S3, the Mind Flayer takes a guy named William because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. And then he uses him to build a monster that finds Eleven and takes her powers. So, maybe the 'wrong place, wrong time' is true, but the rest... is interesting. Jonathan says that they built Castle Byers the way Will drew it, and MindFlayer!Billy tells Billy to build what he sees. Also interesting that there are two Billies. It reminds me of If I go there will be trouble, and if I stay it will be double (different timelines, twin imagery, Henry and Edward, Richard and Martin. And Will and Eleven?)

So, my theory is that Will and El are more connected than it seems, and that's why Vecna needs Will. And maybe he is also using him to "build" his army, and make the UD spread? I don't know.

But for all these reasons, I think it would make more sense if Will wasn't just a random victim, or at least he's developed some ability.

Will has parallels with Cerebro (here) and Nancy says that the lights came to life when he was in the UD, a parallel to what Steve says in S3, (Let there be light) after Will senses the Mind Flayer for the first time at the mall. When he's watching a zombie movie. There's also that beautiful theory (I don't remember who posted it, sorry) about Will being connected to the light particles and using them to destroy the black particles of the Mind Flayer.

Light particles that look like fairy dust -> Will being called fairy. Lights that come to life -> a battery

I think I've found some big hint that this theory might be correct. Anyway, it seems that Will is connected to the very existence of the UD. Not saying he created it, but if lights came to life when he was there, maybe if they interrupt the connection, that place, whatever it is, will cease to exist.

#st s5 spoilers #st s5 #will byers #will has powers #el hopper #henry creel #the first shadow spoilers #st: tfs #st s5 theory #st vecna #st analysis #st parallels #stranger things

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bebx · 11 months

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so Noah Schnapp said the way the Duffer brothers closed Stranger Things in this next season is “perfect” and that the story “started with Will and it will end with Will” so...

1. Byler?

2. either Will is the one who defeats Vecna or he will be the one who breaks through to Henry’s lost humanity and eventually helps guide Henry back towards a redemption arc. and I am so rooting for the latter. you know what? I actually think the latter is actually not impossible, not because I'm a Henry / Vecna stan but because, if you notice the pattern, Stranger Things is about redeeming oneself (no pun intended) and that “no one was born evil”. Henry’s story has always been tragic and while there’s no excuse for his crimes, he didn’t do it for ‘pleasure’ but in his mind, he was doing what had to be done in order to achieve a ‘better world’. a predator, but for good. Henry sees himself as a vigilante of sorts, or — quote Jamie’s words — the righteous hand of justice. he thinks what he’s doing is the right thing, and we’ve seen all these parallels between him and Will. so if there’s anyone who can reach him, really reach him, I think — if that someone is not Eleven — it’s Will.

listen... I don’t know what’ll happen in season 5 but I think there’s a high chance that I will cry :’)

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redflagtag01 · 7 months

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finalboybyers is heart_byers on Twitter (tw: rape, pedophilia, and abuse).

When they post about Henry and Will, likening them to Father and Mother, Hades and Persephone, Hannibal and Will, Lestat and Louis, Villanelle and Eve, and other romantic fated pairs, they're trying to semi-subtly get more people on the Henwill train.

Don't believe me? Take it from Yarrow themselves (Tweet's date is May 20 and their first Tumblr post is soon after on June 5):

They don't censor their tweets in any fashion and they have a public account, which makes them easy to find when conducting a regular content search about either character, the cast, or simply looking in the Quotes of popular tweets. You don't have to be a proshipper or devils sacrament attendee to find them—they're out there in the open.

They're a proshipper that enjoys child/adult relationships, uses pictures of Noah where he is as young as eleven in their fantasies, ships Henry and Will romantically, and habitually posts explicit sexual and romantic content about them, all of which feature both Will and Noah as minors.

The ages listed on both accounts and their general speech patterns are the same. They post about the same parallels, same ideas, and same desires for the pair. They react to the same things and share their same findings at similar times. Their Tumblr is practically the exact same as their Twitter, just with more sugarcoating, denial of this behavior, and less explicitly romanticized rape.

I found that they tend to post first on Twitter and then refine it into a more elaborate post on Tumblr, but not always. Here are some examples:

It's the same user. If you can stomach that content and decide to see for yourself, then you'll note the similarities listed above and many more (assuming they don't go private or change usernames). Seriously, you will find every parallel and complaint on both accounts, as well as the same typing style and manner of speaking.

Using pictures or the likeness of real minors should never accompany such fantasies. They don't use drawings with no resemblance to real children; that is a real child plastered all over their account(s), and his name is Noah Schnapp. They're using his likeness from when he was a minor, anywhere from eleven to sixteen, when picturing Will and Henry as a couple, as one can see based on their Tweets. Here are some examples (Likes, Retweets, and one of their own) to get the point across swiftly (though they do have their own similar Tweets too):

If you wouldn't feel comfortable with someone thinking of any random non-famous child that way, why would it be okay in this instance?

The fact that they romantically ship Henry/Vecna/001 and Will is clear from the way they speak about them in their Tumblr posts and Tweets, the way that they liken them to romantic ships or dynamics while admitting to there being a romantic element (which is in line with their many Tweets, some below), but just in case you weren't already aware… now you know.

If you're turned on by minors and/or enjoy thinking of them in that way, then you need to seek help. Pedophilia can't be cured, but it can be treated with therapy. That isn't a kink—it's a paraphilia that is one act upon that desire away from being a psychiatric disorder. You wouldn't even have to interact with a child to reap criminal consequences; just producing or consuming any visual depiction of their engagement in a sexual act is a crime itself—and yes, that includes fan art and cartoon depictions.

Most people understand there's a difference between fiction and reality—ergo, enjoying the drama of a fictional abusive ship does not mean you support abuse in real life. However, things change when real minors are involved in sexually explicit materials. No child should be spoken of or viewed that way by adults that should and do know better. Noah could not have consented to have his pictures, or his likeness, used in this manner, and he likely still wouldn't. Children cannot consent and have the right to exist in the world without being sexualized by adults.

Will is fictional, but Noah is real and his underage likeness is the face of their fantasies. Artwork of Will engaged in sexually explicit conduct would be illegal and considered obscene under the federal law of the United States. Such content is illegal to produce, distribute, receive, or possess, and those convicted could be fined and imprisoned. Historically, this has even extended to textual depictions, too.

There's a reason why it's prohibited on many platforms, why these specific proshippers get suspended and have to remake accounts multiple times, and it isn't because evil conservative "antis" are "kinkshaming" the oppressed proshippers again. The material they produce and share is obscene by legal definition. They're not only picturing Noah's underage face in their mind and their works when they romanticize Will being raped and groomed, but they're proving that by always using pictures of him when he was underage, and only those underage pictures.

Yarrow admits to having interest in and consumed such prohibited materials, as noted by this Liked Tweet, and their own admission (one of many):

The fact that Will is a child and was played by someone with a baby-face is a deliberate and crucial part of the appeal to these people. The corruption of a child's innocence and naïveté, tarred by sexual exploit, sinister intentions, and his lack of consent, is all Henwill's charm (and they say this themselves in Tweets added below). It doesn't work if Will is aged up to an adult and that's why he never is in their fantasies. He has to be a child, helpless and pure and preyed upon, and he has to look like Noah's eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, and sixteen year old self.

They know that it's pedophilic and that's what they like about it. That's the entire point (again, see for yourself beneath the cut). That's why they shamelessly Tweet about it, but deny it here on this platform, where they [hopefully] are not among like-minded company.

I've included an array of tweets that show they do not view Henwill in a platonic fated enemies fashion and never have—no matter how many times they deny this now. You may notice similarities between those Tweets and their posts, how they "refined" their Tweets into something more palatable, as I mentioned earlier. Read at your own risk, but this should be available for viewing to all unless they change their Twitter handle, go private, or delete/unlike them.

There will always be people who become involved after being exposed to this content, but if you already liked to think of children that way, then there wasn't anything anyone could've done to deter you. Pedophilia is resistant to treatment—a Tumblr post wouldn't have cured you and you would've found this eventually. Still, I have blocked out usernames to prevent further exposure. With this post, I hope to inform others who don't share this paraphilia and who were unknowingly helping spread their thinly veiled pedophilic content.

If you cannot stomach explicit pedophilia or rape, then do NOT continue reading this post or visit their Twitter.

#byler #will byers #vecna #henry creel/vecna #vecna/henry/one #vecna/henry/001 #stranger things

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littledarlingone · 11 months

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Steddie and Byler are so closely tied in my mind.

Somebody plz tell me if I’m completely late to the party here but like…

As much as Mike hates the guy, him and Steve are fundamentally the same. Of course, Mike is much nerdier and prone to bullying than Steve ever was, but at their core, they’re both just rich kids who don’t know how to be their own person. They’re both following in their parents footsteps—the polos, the button ups, the khakis…the American dream with a house and kids—and a girl. A nice girl.

And honestly Mike’s distain for Steve is even more compelling to me. Mike sees himself in Steve and he hates it.

Will and Eddie are of course different too, as far as mannerisms and interests go. BUT they share the same core character archetype—the freak. Not to mention the creative streak and the DND and the queer coding (or in Wills case, just blatant queerness.)

I also feel it’s important to point out just how similar Will and Eddie’s disappearances actually are, and the way the public talks about them when they’re gone. Think about it.

So. They’re alike, so what?

Well, let’s break down what happened in S4.

Mike reunites with El and Will in Lenora, and tries to patch things up with El, but ends up spending all of his time with Will and reconciling their relationship instead.

And all the while? El is spending her time in the memories of the lab with 001.

THEN. ALLLLL the way back in Hawkins, Steve is unraveling Vecna’s curse with Nancy and Eddie, and shows signs of wanting Nancy back (which is completely out of the blue, right? How weird!) Except he ends up spending alllll of his time!!!! With!!! Eddie!!! TALKING about Nancy!! The SAME way that Mike and Will are talking about El! And it serves to reconcile each of their misconceptions of who the other was in high school, under a safety blanket of heteronormativity. It’s a direct parallel to the van scene!

(And don’t even get me started on the failures to say I love you in both Mileven and Stancy!!)

Also what else do we remember happening in Hawkins? Nancy being pulled by Henry (001) into the memories of the lab…where Eleven has been the entire season. El and Nancy are the only two people to walk in Vecna’s mindscape without being under his curse…and why? Why connect them? And not just now.

Why dress El up in Nancy’s old clothes?

Why provide strikingly similar shots of them crawling out of the Upside Down?

Why make them both the girl that no one believes?

They are inherently tied (and tied with Joyce, but I seriously can’t get into that too this is getting so long) the way that Steve and Mike are, and Eddie and Will. It’s the love triangles, not just Steddie and Byler.

So now we’ve come to the last bit of this ramble, which is Eddie’s death.

There’s a lot of anxiety and controversy about what will happen between El, Mike and Will in S5, but we’ve already seen what is (supposedly) the older trios end—Eddie dies, and it ends because it cannot continue. There is no closure.

Wouldn’t it follow, then, that Will would die?

It’s scary, right? Eddie, much as we love him, was a fast-tracked version of what we have with Will. He was only a fraction and we got that upset. Imagine what losing Will would be like!

But here’s what I think. I think that Eddie dying—whether he remains dead or not—served as almost an extreme hypothetical. An ‘if your friends jumped off a cliff, would you do it too?’ Because Eddie jumped. Eddie chose his friends over himself. Eddie saw himself as a selfish coward, and decided that the only thing he was good for was helping others along. And it killed him.

And Will? He gave all of his love and work over to make El happy. Because he sees himself as a selfish coward, and decided that the only thing he’s good for is helping others along. Will jumped.

So yeah, Will could die. The self-sacrificing tendencies are there.

Except. Mike jumped off the cliff, too. Literally.

So. When two people are willing to die for each other, is it a weakness or a strength?

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sterlingarcher23 · 2 months

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It was the Zoomer....Him=her

Taking the wheel is an analogy often used in cases of DID - that's why this scene, this line is in that moment in which Max sits behind the wheel. (see down below)

Because it happened before:

The accurate moment is right after the zooming effect, even though Eleven uses both hands, not one - moments earlier in the scene when El pushes him away with one hand the first time it doesn't result in 00I flying through the one way mirror. That's why I replaced this from the original post that inspired this one ( source down below). Technically both psychic blasts are accurate to use, I guess depending on the pov of the character. I as pointed out before and do again in this post, Eleven isn't a name you can use for one specific character - nonetheless this is a clear parallel between Max and Vecna, putting Max in the same place as him (maybe we should call him Edward, Henry's evil twin/alter/variant)

Mirrors

And here the mirror shards are flipped - she is as much of a mirror to him, as he is to her.

That moment here, is also mirroring the same event that took place in the lab - when El "wished" for her other half to appear, and the lights go out (as if she absorbs the energy?). That's how Vecna knows what Max is doing.

Both are clearly visual reflections/mirrors of each other. When he nails Max to the wall, it must have been her who did it in 1979 as they show us them as mirrors by changing the align of the glass shards.

You know: Stop him-- Her.

The silver cat feeds...

And when One kills "he" consumes.

The imagery and dialog makes them equals but also sets them apart, mirrors them.

"And there upon a rainbow is the answer to a neverending story" - like exactly before they are thrown through something and nailed to the wall.

Lie vs untruth (lies are deceptive, not everything that's untrue is a lie, could be a mistake, misunderstanding)

I vs We (the egot vs the team)

00I vs 0II

And the event - it split "Eleven". In two ones. As indicated that Max is One and El too (You are One of the good Ones).

That's the only possible explanation. The girl...in the beginning, that turns around? It (probably) doesn't even look like we think she looks like. What if she actually has red hair - the most likely explanation is that it's perception fuckery, showing us different scenes, even flipped events, not just allude to potential timeline splits but to the perception of two different personalities of the same event. And it's obvious because the older El has a different blood stain on her gown than the two younger versions. (A bit like in Matrix there are different self images of the same person, a real one, the way you see yourself, the residual rest image and, the way others see you)

There's also a whole section I would have integrated here if possible about how Max and Vecna are mirrored in another aspect: it's about werewolves and vampires, like a blood feud, it's about gamers playing an Immortal Game of chess and it's about the "Owl", the wendigo.

Pronouns & Gender ambiguity...

The pronoun game between El and Owens is verbally alluding to this. As much as theres some trans coding with Henry/Edward/Vecna with the emasculation, the association with female black widows, Max is also trans coded. Similar to characters like George (Georgina) Kirrin from the Famous Five is been trans-coded since the very first TV-show from the 70s, almost openly in the 90s show in which a gender swap & confusion happened in a conversation. And George doesn't like it to be called by her birth name, only her father does it. I should write that post I wanted to do last year how media likes to play with gender identity, gender roles and also sexuality.

Remember when Mr Clarke introduced Max to the class? He calls her Maxine, gets corrected by Max and the boys realize the supposed boy is a girl. Like in the dialog with Owens. Who then continues "Stop her and the rest of them". Seriously? On surface level it's just a misunderstanding in a not so great dialog. Or is it done deliberately? To swap pronouns? Yes - so that him=her. Which makes "He" potentially "she".

Vecna also calls her Maxine. But she wants to be called Max. That's a deliberate choice made by someone: choosing a name. - In S4 when Jason wants to "go out" with Lucas, Erica mentions Max by name, that Jason is a step down - two things: 1) to Jason this must sound as if Max is a boy. 2) and Lucas is...gay? Or bisexual? Or pan? It's at least clearly coding. Especially in regards to Max.

Now, does this make Max a boy/transgender, even though there's a very specific graffiti in her mind: No. Because otherwise "There's more to life than stupid boys" wouldn't fit.

But it tells me that she's probably meant as "gender ambiguous", that her character is at least questioning gender roles and definitely been mistaken as a boy at times is important in her character arc. "He" is actually a "she".

Hence Brenner is using what I'd call a gender neutral He or "he" as referring to someone that isn't specified. He doesn't say Henry or uses any name, but "He" and One. And you can see how "She" is mistaken as "He" - by us. Most think that this clunky, almost amateurish exposition (which we didn't need as Vecna showed us and said what he does) isn't about "him" but about "her": Max.

And besides some gender ambiguity regarding Max, we had several instances of characters in the show mistake her for a boy aka he. That in itself is all you need to understand why this exposition about "One" was written as a dialog for Brenner who doesn't see these kids as humans, nor as male or female, hence the fact get only numbers, wear the same clothes, have the same haircut. Only as numbers. And that's why "One" isn't necessarily a "he".

Example: "Whosoever holds this hammer if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor." - 2014, Jane Foster took the hammer. "He" wasn't necessarily meant as "only male" but more gender neutral.

The use, in formal English, of he, him or his as a gender-neutral pronoun has traditionally been considered grammatically correct.

The pronoun he can be used to refer to an unspecified person, as in If you see someone in trouble, help him. (See Gender above).

Final words & additional thoughts

(And sorry for the repetitions in my posts) Max is One, as much as she's Eleven when together with El as the script points out because the Duffers do not call El "Eleven" all the time - they make a clear distinction between El and Eleven in the script. So, who is Eleven? It's a number not a name and the script making this distinction between El and Eleven, even indicates that Eleven and Max are interchangeable, like pronouns, through the window scene in which El says "This is Max" - so if "Eleven" is Max, then Max is "Eleven".

Also, in regards to mirrors, this window is like a one way mirror. From El's perspective, she sees herself when drawing Max, since she can't see beyond. For us, the audience, however this is a window through which we see El through Max. It's actually not even subtle.

Mirrors are also used in other instances, like the "pretty" moments but this deserves its own post.

castleclerics had an interesting thought:

But not her "twinner". El's alter. Her other half. The Zoomer. Not timelines, even though the event resulted in different timelines or alike that split them.

And these alters do look differently in her physical versions - that's what alters are: they are different. Different gender, ethnicity, age. Not only is it a setup for what will happen in 5, the fusion through consumption but an explanation for why it has to happen:

"Only by facing all ourselves, the good and the bad, can be become whole" - Bad, according to David Clarke's "Between medieval men" (a study about same sex relations from 2009) it has it's roots in an Middle English term: bæddel. Which means hermaphrodite. "Usually taken to be related to (an unattested Old English root of) Middle English badde (“wicked, wretched, bad”)" - this is likely just a coincidence - but we cannot rule out the possibility that the Duffers did stumble over the Wiktionary entry. - Doing your homework does help with writing fiction, I heard. - That sentence is important because El questions that what if she doesn't want to be whole. And Brenner replies "Then that is a choice. Your choice." And choice is important to her character, it's an integral part of her.

What's in the show is rarely coincidence - yes it happens, mistakes etc, sometimes the "curtains are fucking blue". I would however also argue with a Professor for media science who analyzed "John Adams" that most things in film/tv are deliberat and the Duffers give us yellow curtains in many cases as if they wanted to tell us...what you see are (mostly) no coincidences, I guess. These guys are said to be meticulous. So, actual patterns, repetitions of the same or similar message, seeming mistakes like changing elements as the inscription on a gravestone and a drawing on a piece of paper, dialogs, mirroring scenes etc. are no coincidence. It's fiction. Made up. There's bad fiction and good fiction, they all have however something in common: it's all "artificially" (it's in this word: art) created by their writers based on real life experiences and other fiction. It's not even that new (that's why you can compare it with other works of fiction even if it's not sure if that was an actual inspo) or revolutionary however can be something unique and great, if they don't fail, in the way it's done. - Max as a character is made this way by choice, that she's mistaken as a boy and showing signs of gender ambiguity and trans coding (such as Vecna himself for God sake), most definitely questioning gender roles which goes in a similar direction, is not a mistake but a deliberate choice that leads to the question: Who does Brenner talk about? - The answer is, yes, in parts about Vecna, but to see it as a pure expositional dialog is, as far as I see it, at best short sighted. It's about One. One of the good Ones. It's about Max.

Until you find something that feels like you...

....I mean, at a certain point you don't need imagination that there's more to this sentence. Like the script description "on her heart" - El's actual, physical heart is in Max's chest and El is the beat of this heart. Like I said: Max, Eleven, El....5+6=11.

(There's a whole debate why they changed Millie's height of about 5'3 or 5'4 to 5'6 on the Wiki page and it's amazing that not even there they see the simple math in it. Because there's math everywhere in the show. Like art.)

And Elfen Lied is an inspiration for Eleven. El is therefore Nyu - Max is Lucy/Kaede which means that Max could also have a different name and might be the daughter of someone we all know all to well. - They are alters. And in Stranger Things made physical reality in two different girls. And about taking the wheel...

"Dissociative Identity Disorder Alters Feel Like Being in a Car with Other People:

The car-driving analogy is common when talking about DID and the experience of alters. My therapist would often ask me to make sure I was the one "at the wheel," which can be difficult when you have alters fighting to take control. One person described having alters as all being together, riding in the same car, with each person taking turns driving. Another person described the experience of alters as feeling like being on a bus full of people; sometimes it's loud and scary, while other times it's quiet and calm. It's always an interesting experience."

Post that inspired this one:

#max mayfield #elmax #stranger things #el hopper #elmax nation #elmax is endgame #stranger things analysis #stranger things theory #eleven stranger things #max stranger things #henry creel

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sollody · 1 year

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Joyce is (almost) always right ... right?

Um...

Remember the scene where Brenner tries to manipulate Joyce - most definitely - in order to get her to help him get Eleven back (1x08)?

Well, I can't help but think that her reaction is a bit ... suspicious...

[Huh!?!?!]

To me, the response seems quite odd considering she knows about Jane and her abilities. She's well aware that the man in front of her has a history with Jane. Not Will. Jane. Eleven. 011.

Hopper even admitted that "he had been chasing after some other kid" - after she pointed it out (1x06).

And yet, she decides to accuse Brenner of taking Will and leaving him in that place to die.

[I mean, I get that she was probably trying to leave Jane out of it in order to keep her safe or something - but she could've easily been like: Uh, yeah, right. Your people just handcuffed me and took me to this creepy interrogation room. Why would I help you? - or something.]

And the way she puts it ...

It's not an assumption - it's a statement.

------------

Just so you know, I - obviously - don't think it was Brenner who took Will and 'sent' him to the Upside Down. :D

But!

They've made it quite obvious that Joyce has some sort of ... sixth sense.

So what if she really is onto something in that scene with Brenner?

There are a few things that suggest that he (or the lab in general) had been in the know about Will (and his powers) - even before the events of November '83. (The fake body, Brenner's reaction in the shed etc.)

And I've always considered the conversation between Brenner and Connie Frazier (1x08) to be particularly ... interesting.

It feels kind of ... random, no?

----------

Like I've said, Brenner obviously didn't take Will and put him in the Upside Down.

However, he may have taken advantage of the situation.

----------------------

My thoughts:

First of all, you may or may not be aware that quite a few people (looking at you, @pinkeoni , @chirpsythismorning and @ki-flor :D) are convinced that Will has creation powers and created the Upside Down version of Hawkins.

I am no different. :D

In fact, I take the matter even a little further: I believe that it's possible that he has something to do with the yellow wasteland version as well. [here and here]

Let's assume Brenner really had been aware of Will's abilities...

... we all know what he was like. He didn't give a damn about common moral and ethical principles...

So what if he really did intend to leave him there? - for research purposes or whatever

Like one of those "Hm, let's see what happens."- situations.

Another possibility: he was scared of Will's powers.

I must admit, this seems a bit silly. But there has to be a reason Will wasn't part of the experimentation program (in 1983) - even though they were aware of him. Perhaps Brenner and his team had never been able to find a way to deal with our boy's abilities. It's also possible that it has something to do with the huge amount of parallels between him and Henry.

So maybe he really did want for him to die in that place.

Who knows?

All I know is that we should never, ever underestimate a gut feeling of Joyce Byers. :D

---------

Anyway, thanks for reading. (:

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strangertheories · 1 year

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STRANGERTHEORIES S5 post index and intro

This index is very long so to avoid clutter on my blog, I've put it under the cut.

❤️🧡💛💚🩵💜

SCROLL DOWN FOR INTRO <3 Here's my S4 index for theories and other random posts which are a bit out of date now. * means the post was written before the release of volume 2.

ST5 theories

Kas theories (Eddie and Max)

Can Vecna see through Max's eyes?

What will happen when Max wakes up?

Quantum Entanglement and ST5

The First Shadow theories

The First Shadow: what is the source of Henry's powers?

The First Shadow: why did Henry kidnap Will?

Two interesting follow up asks: 1, 2 + a small correction

X-Men and Dark Phoenix parallels

Is Henry related to Jane/El

How will S5 play out/end?

Could Mr Clarke return?

Could Kali/008 return?

Could Mike die?

Will Byers

What will Hawkins be like in S5?

Is Holly missing?

What gay Will Byers means to me*

All proof Will is gay (long post for a reason)

What Will Byers having powers might look like

Did Vecna target Will from the start?

Does Vecna want Will dead?

Vecna and Will parallels

Did Will manifest the Upside Down into Hawkins?

Will froze the Upside Down

The psychological bond between Will and Vecna

Does Will have a clone? (Bodygate)

Could Vecna out Will in S5?

Could Lonnie return in S5?

Byler

Gay Mike analysis (volume 2 is not covered)*

Shipping Byler shouldn't be stressful

Mischaracterisation of Will and Mike

Failures in Mike's writing in S3 & S4

Mike outside of romantic relationships

Byler colour coding

The Van Monologue

Why I went off mlvn

Unrequited Byler or no Byler?

Why I started shipping Byler*

Byler headcanons and even more Byler headcanons*

First date headcanons (also includes Steddie, Ronance and Jopper)

Argument for Byler endgame

Is Byler rushed?

Could Byler be Vecna'd in S5?

In defense of bi Mike

Why I like bi Mike

In defense of Byler doubters

Oh god that blew up, so here's my response

A follow up post to the follow up post

Robin Buckley

Highlights of Robin's comic

Platonic Stobin's impact on Robin (long post)

Robin centric headcanons (Ronance)

Robin headcanons pt 2*

Autistic Robin proof*

More autistic Robin content

Robin and camouflaging

No, Robin didn't drastically change personality*

Robin and ableism*

Steve is Robin's comfort person*

Ronance

First date headcanons (also includes Byler, Steddie and Jopper)

Ronance headcanons*

Ronance and overuse of boy drama (follow up post)*

Will Jancy resolve their issues? (goes on about every Nancy ship)

Why Stancy shouldn't be endgame

How would Ronance play out?

Single Nancy vs Ronance

Why I prefer Ronance to Rovickie (a discussion of fandom, canon and headcanon)

Ronance apparently doesn't center Steve enough (debunked)

Bra sharing

Fan art: post 1, post 2, post 3, post 4

General

Unpopular opinions

Eleven's character arc in S4 and hopes for S5

Long Max character analysis*

Which characters might die in ST5?

Panel with actors of Chrissy, Karen and Alexei

Homophobia and queer shipping*

Fandom bullying

Eddie's death is good actually

No, Steve isn't homophobic (to Robin)

Where Steve's character arc went wrong

Characters that I think are autistic and autistic headcanons

On neurodivergent headcanons

Autistic Eleven proof

Nancy and how audiences treat trauma

Eddie's character arc & death

The Duffers planned for more seasons after S1

Ranking of seasons, characters and ships*

Set photos plus short commentary: 1, 2, 3

❤️🧡💛💚🩵💜

Hello fellow Stranger Things fans! This is the index post of my blog, strangertheories, where I make content about Stranger Things! I've been obsessed with Stranger Things for years so I've decided to spare everyone in my life from having to hear me ranting about it and create this blog to share my thoughts. You can also find me on TikTok as forever_ronance and on Letterboxd as crimsonxclover.

I post about Byler, Ronance and most of all, theories (kind of in the name). I try to only post about ST but if I want to post about something else, I'll tag it #not ST related. I regularly answer anons if you are interested in sending me an ask as well!

If my account appeals to you, I would appreciate if you check out my posts. If you're looking for a specific post, I've got you covered- just look at the list above or see what I've posted under the tags I've tagged this post with. My personal favourite section is the ST5 theories as they're my most thought out and analytical posts but hopefully there's something up here that you enjoy. I don't include all of my posts as this index is only my important posts so if you sent me an ask and it's not on the index, that's why. Enjoy reading and thanks for checking out my account!

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mostlylurkinbarelypostin · 1 year

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Thoughts on Henry as El’s Biological Father (cause he ain’t no dad)

It would make a ton of sense for Henry to be El’s biological father. It’s so suspicious that we don’t know who El’s biological father is and it seems like the perfect set up for a plot twist. When El was born in 1971, Henry would have been about 24 (if my math is right based on the news clippings we got in season 4). In season 2, we got more news articles that told us that Terry was held against her will at the lab and experimented on for months before Jane was born. Therefore, it would make sense time wise, considering Terry and Henry were at the lab at the same time, and age wise. It would also explain why Brenner kidnapped Jane and seemed to continually pay special attention to Eleven even when she wasn’t performing as well as the other kids. Brenner wants to turn them into weapons, and he likely thinks that she has the same potential for violence that Henry did. Robin jokes about Victor being a “grandpa murderer,” possibly foreshadowing the reveal that Victor is, technically speaking, a grandfather. Hopper also adds more support to this theory when he goes on his monologue about how “it must be hardwired into us to reject our fathers,” which is exactly what we see El do to Henry this season. Through flashbacks, we watch her refuse to join his violent and destructive plan to rebuild the world and send him into the upside down. We then watch her continue to reject his violent ways when she tries to stop Henry from killing Max in season 4.

If Henry turns out to be El’s biological father, then it would also create even more parallels between El and Will. Both would then have fathers that tried to force them into committing violent acts and rejected them when they wouldn’t conform. Like most characters in the show, they may struggle with the concern that they’ll become like their fathers. That that evil might be a part of them too. Henry is also paralleled to Joyce when he refers to El as a “sleepy head” in the flashback, just as Joyce does to Will in season 2. Further linking El and Will and hinting at Henry being a parental figure. Both El and Will though will show us that it’s possible to overcome the cycle of abuse and violence with the help of others, and that we aren’t doomed to be just another version of our parents (as Henry would say, “a faded, lesser copy of the life before”). As with all the characters in this show, they’ll show us that we can be better. As Hopper also said in his monologue “We can grow and move. Become something of our own.”

Thought? :)

#eleven #Henry creel #will byers #stranger things #byler

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emblazons · 10 months

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(long) stream-of-consciousness post clarifying one of my own analyses series (b/c I’m rebuilding my masterpost). you are more than welcome to ignore it lol

I feel like (and this is why I dropped the commentary for a bit lmao) there’s gotta be a way to reframe that whole “parentified” Mike series of parallels + commentary I did a bit back into something more akin to “Mike feels that he needs to step into a role more like that of a mentor / older sibling to El to compensate for the fact that 1) Hopper is dead + he feels bad and 2) he is gay + doesn’t love her romantically,” because he is not “parentified” as Jonathan is, and I know that (though he still mirrors the “older brother” role with El that Jonathan has with Will in his self-inflicted over-responsibility).

The ‘shorthand’ I chose (even as I was writing the posts) didn’t seem entirely correct to me, given that I kept looking for words to explain the function of the parallels in the show—and I see how it could be misconstrued as giving Mike Jonathan’s “role” in the narrative, which….they do share a few similarities, but he certainly is not parentified the way Jonathan has been by Joyce (< a great analysis by kaypeace on that phenomenon).

In my understanding, Mike shares similarities to parental / elder sibling figures because (despite the similarity in age between him and Eleven) her lack of socialization & individual experience necessitated someone taking on the “introduce her to the real world” role—something that the narrative “assigned” to Mike the minute they found her in season 1 (Lucas even comments on how he wouldn’t want this role when Mike takes it on, “I wouldn’t want her in my house,” etc).

When I wrote the analyses originally, I used “parentified” to describe how this “mentorship” role has led to a kind of repeated paralleling to other parent-child dynamics in ElMike’s platonic and romantic interactions—aka the way we see

- How El in S4 demands a kind of unconditional love/answers from Mike that doesn’t take into account his feelings, wants or desires as a romantic partner (the way she would look to a parent like Hopper).

- How Mike was taking on a non-age-appropriate burden in his romantic relationship as a result of his character, but at the expense of his independent desires

- How Mike was one in a long line of “male mentor” figures El looked to in order to affirm her identity, and got “caught in the crossfire” of that search/her anger once she realized what she had done inadvertently sending Henry to the UD

- How the reintroduction of Hopper into the narrative for El in S4 leaves Mike free to behave more age appropriately because his over-responsibility/guilt over not being there for El can be somewhat assuaged

- How all of those things combined have Mike in more parallels to actual parents and even an actual parentified sibling (Jonathan)…despite him not being placed in that role the way someone like Jonathan was by Joyce

—among other things. In the moment, I was just looking for a word to describe an ongoing phenomenon in the show of Mike paralleling parental (and parent-coded) figures—perhaps “over-responsible” would have been a better choice, but even that doesn’t encompass how it moves both ways, as Mike tries to mentor as much as El demands it when she feels insecure. Still…Mike is not literally being “parentified” the way Jonathan is/was (or in the most technically accurate sense of the word).

Now, there is language around a parent-child relationship showing up in romances—though that might also be seen as over-explaining what’s going on between Mike & El, because while their relationship does veer codependent at times (because she grew up in a lab / did not enter her romance with a full identity—looking at you “how do I know what I like” + Mike demanding rules + limits on her among other things in S3), El is actively moving out of that and into her own. It’s why we talk about El having an “independence” arc in the first place.

I do also think the removal of Hopper as a character end of S3 (however you feel about him) put a weight on the shoulders of a lot of younger male characters who benefited from him taking on a (literal) “patriarchal” role as Joyce’s primary male reliance (in the case of true Parentified!Jonathan) and El’s dad, but. Mike trying to keep his relationship behaviors functionally platonic (so as to avoid lying while still not admitting he’s gay) while also struggling to let go of his role as one of El’s “introduction to the world” mentors does not mean he’s been pushed into a parental role literally. My lack of specificity for the sake of explaining the phenomena leaves room for conflating though, that it’s hard to undo.

Idk. I just feel like a lack of specific language / my choice of shorthand could be seen as trying to give Mike something that isn’t his place in the narrative (at least if you take the ‘parentified’ as its ‘a child who parental responsibilities are being demanded of’ (Jonathan) and not ‘one being circumstantially put into a role more like a parent / mentor than the romantic partner they are supposed to be’ (Mike)? Which…I mean it just helped me understand in the moment but may have seemed like an overreach given that Mike (if he was more secure) could stop doing what he’s doing in a way Jonathan literally cannot escape. If…that makes sense lmao

#parentified mike #< this is about that tag/set of analyses because…I’m pretty sure I started that train of thinking LMAO #it’s also about how that word has always felt ‘incorrect’ to me despite being the easiest way to categorize the phenomenon in my mind #—analysis is hard y’all. especially when it gets filtered 20 times and comes back something other than what you meant #it’s like playing telephone with ideas LMFAO #anyway #stranger things #my st commentary #the me tag

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nebulousfishgills · 11 months

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I could just be a dumbass who came to this conclusion after everyone else did and I just don't realize it, but I was mindlessly drafting a one shot and the thought occured to me.

There's a lot of mystery around the Massacre of Hawkins Lab and Henry's past that I think we're all trying to piece together. Weird inconsistencies, time gaps, missing information, and the like. I don't really have a coherent way of saying this cleanly, so I'll just dump it out.

I'm pretty sure that there's a lot of us in the "The Mind Flayer Was Behind It All" camp, but we all end up looking like Pepe Silvia in "It's Always Sunny" because of those missing pieces we're trying to drag together. I'll probably sound the same way, but here we go.

What I think is part of what's going on is that the Creel House is just a location in Hawkins where the barrier between both worlds is extremely weak, like how some haunted locations are more prone to paranormal activity than others. One might argue that Hawkins Lab is another one of these weak spots, but I wanna focus on the Creel House.

The Mind Flayer had always existed as a shadow-y soup of chaos for god knows how many years and as we can see, it's what connects the Hivemind together. It's like Bluetooth, really.

It's an entity on its own and I think it's goal is to control all things, in the Upside-Down and in the Overworld. What I think happened was that it was looking for a vessel to get into the Overworld it's been locked out of. Henry comes along, already disillusioned and dissatisfied with society for probably several reasons that we can't yet confirm nor deny, yet are implied (is he gay, is he neurodivergent, both, who knows).

These things will probably reveal themselves in The First Shadow, one of many reasons it's going to be a very important piece of lore...

The First Shadow... Shadow... Shadow Monster... Mind Flayer.

The Shadow Monster started to invade Henry's mind, stoke his worries and hatred to eventually link itself with him. That's how Henry's powers developed. It's a tired parallel at this point, but it's easy. The Flayer is Emperor Palpatine, Henry is Anakin Skywalker (and El is Luke). "Join me and together we can rule the galaxy/world, here are cool powerups to boot."

Once Henry's taken to Hawkins Lab, he's separated from the weak barrier that his house was, but the Mind Flayer has still infected his mind.

"The particles went inside them" is what Murray said about the Demo-creatures in the Russian prison, and I think somehow the Mind Flayer got particles/its influence/Bluetooth into Henry. He's constantly simmering, just waiting for the day he can escape and take his revenge. Which is where the Massacre comes in.

I can't explain every weird detail or inconsistency, but I can explain two things:

-I don't remember who said it, but I completely agree with it: Henry's monologue makes so much more sense if we look at it like someone possessed by an ancient evil eldrich being.

-Henry *absorbs* his victims. Remember how in Season 3 the Meat Flayer *absorbed* residents in Hawkins to grow stronger? I think the Massacre started as Henry clearing a path so he and Eleven could escape, but eventually the Shadow overtook him, telling him to keep going, keep killing, get him/it stronger by absorbing everyone, all those kids with powers like his.

I think the same thing happened at dinner in 1959.

I don't know what Henry's beef with Alice was or why he killed her, and I don't think he knew either. I think the Shadow Monster clouded his mind and judgement so he would kill everyone unimpeeded. His mother went first, the sticking point. The Flayer promised Henry it would help him deal with her, but once he did that, it was essentially Doctor Faustus signing his soul to Mephistopheles (if you'll excuse the too-appropriate reference). Too much power comes at a price, and that price is Henry's autonomy.

Oh, the Mind Flayer lets Henry shape it into the spider-like creature he'd visualized oh so long ago to let him believe he's the one in control, but he's not. The Shadow keeps poisoning him, his mind. How else do you think Henry decayed so throroughly?

I expect if you were to banish the Mind Flayer from Henry like they did Will in season 2, everything would go back to normal. He'd be human again. Powerless, sure, but he's no longer a pawn with his distaste for humans exacerbated to the point of serial murder. It would take effort, but I think it's possible.

Show Henry that he was loved as a child. Victor loved him, Alice loved him, Virginia... tbd. Eleven showed him kindness in Hawkins Lab, that kindness she showed and those past memories might be the key to ending this...

Oh wait!

Boom.

#i'm spitballing #but it all makes sense to me i might just be bad at explaining it #henry's the pawn who thinks he's the king #the victim who thinks he's the villain #so what i'm saying is that if he dies at the end i'm gonna be so pissed off #stranger things #stranger things 4 #stranger things 5 #stranger things theories #the first shadow #stranger things the first shadow #henry creel #vecna #001 #the mind flayer

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erikiara80 · 2 years

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ST analysis/S5 theories Part II: Will and El parallels

EDIT : I posted this analysis months ago. I’ve found so much more. Some things I didn’t considered when I watched S4 for the first time. This was just the beginning : )

In Part I I talked about the parallels between Will and Henry Creel, and one of them is that they both have powers.

This conclusion is not based on my personal taste or hope for a Will centric S5 tho, but on the themes of the story, how it’s structured and his character’s journey.

1. The story is telling us that Will Byers has powers: it’s part of his journey, his coming of age, realizing that he’s not a mistake or just the poor kid who was kidnapped by a monster. He’ll be the key to defeat the evil that made him suffer so much, he’ll save his friends and the boy he loves, and become a confident, talented young man.

Will’s a sweet kid, a little artist who gets bullied at school and has an awful father who calls him slurs. This is material for a good story, even without the supernatural element. But the whole S1 is about saving Will from the Upside Down, S2 is about saving him from the Mind Flayer’s possession, and in S3-4 he realises he’s connected to the MF (Henry) and can feel his presence and thoughts. That means that the supernatural is an important part of his story. This is what makes him different from the other kids, except one (El). He’s the only one who’s directly affected by the supernatural powers of the Upside Down from the beginning of the series. And in S4 we met Henry Creel, another sensitive boy who liked drawing and has many parallels with Will. The perfect way to prove how love can make the difference. That even when you’ve suffered greatly, having people who love you and support you makes the difference. It makes you stronger, it protects you. So you can choose kindness, instead of causing more suffering. Henry was alone, didn’t have a loving family, he felt deeply misunderstood, was tortured by Brenner and so he became a killer.

Of course, the message could also be that even without supernatural powers a brave, kind person can defeat the evil with their selflessness and big heart. Like the Hobbits in LOTR. Will could have no powers at all and still be able to defeat Henry. I guess it could make sense. I just think that at this point, with the Upside Down ready to invade our reality, Eleven’s powers are not enough. She needs help. And let’s not forget that in D&D Vecna is a dark wizard, and Will is Will the Wise, the wizard/cleric of the party. They say it in S1, S2, and S3. I don’t know, it would be strange if it didn’t mean anything, right?

Also, stories always have some a surprise in the last chapters/seasons. We already know about Will’s connection to Henry. Nothing new. But him having powers would be the biggest plot twist of the story that would change it forever. And now that Will and the reason the Upside Down is stuck on the day he went missing have been confirmed by the Duffers as the main focus of S5, I’m sure we won’t be disappointed.

I would love it, if the powers Will has are what Vecna or the MF want to build a new world. Or more like to make our world habitable for the MF and its creatures. I used to say Will has a sort of power of creation, like Bastian in The Neverending Story. But since ST is sci-fi, maybe I should say... terraforming? Lol. Or maybe the power to help the MF to connect every creature of our world. We’ll see. There are many options.

So, along with the huge parallels with Henry, there is another dynamic that makes me thinks it makes sense that Will too has powers. The dynamic and parallels with Eleven that we’ve seen since episode one. They are the only two main characters who are deeply connected to the UD and powers, and who feel different and a mistake.

1) Will is in the title of the first episode, and the title of ep 2 is about El. They are equally important. In fact, when he mysteriously disappears, his friends meet her, the mysterious girl with powers.

2) El and Will interact for the first time through El’s powers. First, she channels him, then she sees him in the void and tries to reassure him. And we still don’t know how she recognized him in that photo! Probably all the people with powers are connected to each other and to the Upside Down.

3) It seems that El dies in the classroom. Same happens to Will in the UD.

4) The writers want us to see how their stories are connected, even visually

5) Throughout the series, Will and El have barely interacted, despite the fact that El saved him, that Joyce cares very much about her and is also close to Hopper. It could seem that the writers don’t care about this dynamic. But imo it’s quite the opposite. They’ve kept them apart because their dynamic IS important. Will and El are the two protagonists with powers, the Luke and Leia of Stranger Things. Only, in this story it’s Will/Luke the one who realizes later he has powers, too.

Even when they could show them together, the writers didn’t. In 2x07 El sees in the void that something bad happened to Will, but we don’t see him, only her scared face. And when in 2x08 she goes to see him in his room, he’s unconscious.

5) The only time they’re both with their friends is in S3, and in that season the group of friends is a mess, because of Mike. He can’t function when they’re both with him. Will and El are even in love with the same boy! Their stories couldn’t be more intertwined. In S5 I’m sure the situation with Mike will be the first they’ll resolve.

6) And then in S4, the beginning of the end, after keeping them apart for seasons, what happens? Will and Eleven become siblings and we finally see their bond and that they deeply care about each other. Ok, there’s still that little problem with Mike, but Will’s already proved how selfless he is when he lied about the painting and pushed Mike to tell El he loves her, to save her life. And I think the weird love confession just showed El and Mike that it wasn’t what El needs.

I love these siblings. Together they’ll save the world

There are so many things to say about these two amazing characters. I’m so excited to see them in action in S5. But of course, stories can be told in many ways and even the best analysis can miss important details. So maybe I missed important things and S5 will have completely different surprises. No problem at all! For example, nobody could predict the introduction of Henry Creel, who’s also One, who’s also Vecna, the villain that’s been there since day one. We heard the ticking of a clock since the first time Eleven saw the Demogorgon in the void, we heard a clock when Will was taken, when Hopper was in the tunnels in S2, and when Billy was taken by the Mind Flayer in S3. But we didn’t know what those sounds meant. It was such an amazing surprise!

2. S5 SPOILERS. These interviews. I would be very surprised if Will Byers was just a normal kid who was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. But we’ll see!

Also, an interview with the Duffer Brothers:

Q: How significant is it that the Upside Down has been frozen in time from the day that Will got taken?

A: Very significant. We don’t actually resolve that this season (S4), but it’s a huge part of S5.

And an interview with Noah Schnapp, who plays Will:

“I think they’re setting it up very well for what needs to happen in season 5. I’m excited. I’m interested to see how they tie it all in and explain why was Will the first victim and just tie it in back to season 1.”

I edited this part after learning some important info on D&D Vecna. I talk more about it in Part III

3. Why Will was sidelined in S3 and S4, if he is so important

Many people, including me, were disappointed that after the spectacular S1 and S2, Will was sidelined for two seasons. I mean, he does have an arc in S3-4 but we were used to see him as the main focus along with El. In S3 he wants to keep playing D&D and spending time with Mike and the party. That’s what makes him happy. But he feels like Mike is abandoning him. And in S4 he has some wonderful scenes that I love and make the last part of his journey more beautiful. Plus, the connection to Vecna is back! Hint of Will’s big role in S5.

But why, if Will was the target since S1, Vecna ignored him in S3, took Billy instead and only attacked El? Why in S4 Vecna mentioned all the things El did to fight him (closing the gate in S2 etc), when Will was important too? He was the one, while still possessed, who told them to close the gate.

Imo, the reason is that in S3 El was the only threat. Vecna knew that Will couldn’t use his powers for whatever reason, and he needed to steal El’s powers first to be able to open his own gates, and then reclaim Will (Will being central in S5).

And in S4 Will wasn’t even in Hawkins so... Yeah, in S5 Vecna could tell Will that he waited. That he took El’s powers so he could open bigger gates and finally take Will wherever he was. So far, that part of the plan worked! Also, now Will can feel Vecna's thoughts again. Maybe their connection is even stronger and harder to fight with those huge gates.

4. In conclusion

Will and Eleven have been suspiciously kept apart for most of the series, despite their clear connection. And now we know that Will has also many similarities with another powerful person, Henry. The actor who plays Henry said that the their characters have history, Will can feel what Vecna feels even tho he’s not part of the hive mind anymore. Plus, the neck tingle. Narratively speaking, I think it’s obvious that there’ll be some big reveals about him in S5. They even sent him to California at the end of S3, so he wouldn’t feel Vecna’s thoughts. But now he’s back. Time for an epic coming of age, Will.

#will byers #will has powers #el hopper #will and el #st s5 spoilers #st s5 #st s5 theory #willel #henry creel #will and henry #st vecna #will and vecna #parallels #st theory #st analysis #st meta #the upside down #henry/vecna/001

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aemiron-main · 2 years

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thinking about some of the parallels between will’s van speech to mike vs henry’s speech to el

“Why do you cry for them, Eleven? After everything they did to you? Hmm? You think you need them, but you don't.” “Of course she’ll still need you, Mike. She’ll always need you.”

“Oh, but I know you're just scared. I was scared once too.”

“You’re scared of losing her.”

“I know what it's like to be different. To be alone in this world.”

“Sometimes when you’re different, you feel like a mistake.”

#stranger things #byler #will byers #Peter ballard #Henry creel #byler analysis

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mixu · 2 years

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Theory: How Byler could defeat Vecna

While I believe Byler is key to defeating Vecna/Henry/One, I couldn't visualize how that would work in the practice, but a viable answer came to me while I re-watched The Piggyback.

When El is fighting Vecna inside Max's memory of the Snowball, Max tries to help by hitting Vecna with a pipe or something, and before that, she had been piling chairs to block the entrance. None of that works, but both actions are proof that Max can manipulate the domain of the memory. It's her mind after all. It seems obvious, but she had not been aware of this during her previous encounter with Vecna in Dear Billy where she was completely at his mercy despite being inside her own mind. Which raises the question: If Vecna's victims had enough control over their own minds, would they be able to fight Vecna or effectively assist Eleven in a fight? (I kept wondering if Max couldn't summon a flame thrower).

Also, in the Lost Sister, when Eight explains how her powers work, she says nothing is real, she convinces the mind it is real. Again, if the target had enough control over their own mind would they be able to see through the illusion?

Maybe One, Eight and Eleven's powers provide them with an innate understanding of how the mind works, thus allowing them to control their own minds and others'. Those without powers can only exert control over their own minds but don't attain control until they gain a certain level of awareness, like Max. And even then, they would require training like the kids in the Laboratory to be able to expel Vecna by themselves, if possible.

Now, back to how that explains Byler defeating Vecna. It would go like this:

Shortly after the end of Season 4, the party makes another attempt at killing Vecna while he is hurt. Maybe Will acts like the bait, or El tries to find Vecna via the connection he has with Will. They fail again, but the fight triggers Will's powers (read this in another blog, but I can't find it. help!) and pushes Byler forward (preferably in the aftermath because I'm team soft). After the failure, the government evacuates Hawkins, and we get the time skip.

During the time skip, El can train Will and maybe the rest of the party to better control their minds against Vecna. Byler gets time to develop.

After the time skip, either Vecna targets Will directly or Mike to lure Will into a fight.

If Vecna targets Will directly, there can be a parallel of Milkvan's confession done right. Mike&Will will have a strong enough relationship for Mike's words to provide Will with the necessary strength to defeat Vecna definitely.

The second one is more interesting and more Bylery.

If Vecna targets Mike, Will can enter Mike's mind to protect him. Even if Mike doesn't have full control, he will have better control over his mind than Max. Maybe Mike will maintain enough control to give Will the upper hand. What's more, Will wouldn't be an invasive presence inside Mike's mind, and by this point, Byler will be well established, at their strongest, which could create some sort of synergy between their minds to overpower Vecna. Heck, even at one of their lowest moments they were in tune with each other: "I didn't say it." "You didn't have to."

Can you imagine how powerful they would be at their best?

Does this make sense? Did I drink too much coffee? I need to sleep.

#byler #byler endgame #byler theory #byler brainrot #byler saves the world

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