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conflictofthemind · 1 day

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Thoughts on "Escape from Camazotz"

Oppressive Suburbia, Conformity, and Season 5 Themes

I've long thought that a major focus of Season 5 will be the contrast between the families of The Wheelers and The Byers, and exploring how non-traditional family environments can be freeing vs the oppressive structure of the nuclear family.

In a Wrinkle In Time, Camazotz is a planet controlled by the big bad of the book, the "IT", who forces the citizens into a conformity that resembles American suburbia. All of the houses the same, the citizens the same, doing the same things at the same time without individual identity. Without anything different. Different means a lot of things, but with Stranger Things dropping different in reference to Will's identity and the presumable themes of this season, it will heavily codify as queerness and how it threatens the cisheterosexual family model.

Henry was raised in the 1950s, a decade still revered by conservatives for it's traditional family dynamics that supposedly were the peak of culture and happiness for all. That was all a lie, of course, and Henry knew so as he shows to Nancy and Eleven during his monologue. The second most conservative decade aside from the 1950s in American society is widely considered to be the 1980s.

The Creels will serve in parallel to The Wheelers; the worst example of what they could become and the damage that this type of family could do to a child that is different in any way. Notice how Vecna selectively shows Nancy visions of The Wheelers dying, but not anyone else she may consider family or friends (like Jonathan).

That is; unless they change their ways and come together as a healthy functioning family facing their traumas, The Wheelers will be toast.

Karen has been moved up to a main character role this season. Ted's actor says the father starts to show up more for Holly (hold that) and realizes he wants to act differently. Holly has been recast. Finn has said Mike goes on a much more personal journey this season, and steps up as a leader.

Oh, also: the catalyst for all of this is that Holly goes missing. The contrast will help show how the Byers (including El and Hopper here) were able to pull together and help solve Will's disappearance, versus how the Wheelers as a closed off nuclear family grapple with Holly's vanishing.

Each of the Byers is in some kind of a non-1950s conformist relationship, but particularly Will (not in one now but we all know he will be). I think El might represent, after she breaks up with Mike, the fear of the unmarried woman being satisfied without a husband. The above shot really emphasizes my point.

I predict that Will will end up coming out to his family rather early on, and we will see all of them immediately accept him with little surprise or push-back. Will is a visible gay man who comes from an open minded non traditional family (divorced, non-married, adoptive) that is willing to have honest conversations.

But this theme will place the most focus on the Wheelers. Mike is the main character of said family and this will particularly focus on his arc, and his acceptance of his queerness in the midst of suburban conformity.

He is not visible, he comes from a Reagan-supporting family who don't communicate with each other. He is not particularly close with his family like Will is. He pushes his feelings down and tries his damn hardest to be normal despite it all. His trauma hasn't really been addressed at all. He is falling back into his usual habits - the one thing he dared to do different (grow his hair long) has gone back to how it was.

It's not all doom and gloom though. This season above all will be a redemption arc of the American nuclear family, how they choose to escape their conformity and learn to be there for each other, thus overpowering Vecna. Not that the Wheelers are going to end this personally.

"Great, more hysteria. Just what we need". "It's the news, now indistinguishable from the tabloids".

#stranger things #mike wheeler #the wheelers #the byers family #byler #will byers #st5 speculation #henry creel #the specificity of this title alone and the themes gives me no doubt that these are all real #i also think this is the episode where byler is canonized and where mike finally escapes conformity #holly wheeler #ted wheeler #karen wheeler #i didnt really mention nancy at all sorry girl #if youre reading this PLEASE search up my username on youtube you will find it SO RELEVANT

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will80sbyers · 1 day

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THE VANISHING OF HOLLY WHEELER!?

Help

#byler #st5 production #st5 speculation #st5 spoilers #st5 leaks #holly wheeler

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bylertruth3r · 14 hours

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maybe Will is gonna go back in the upside down with Mike to look for Holly? maybe they will kiss in the upside down? maybe that's how Mike will get injured? (and Will is gonna kiss his forehead) Mike was supposed to go in the upside down to look for Will in s1

#stranger things #byler #mike wheeler #mike wheeler is gay #will byers #stranger things 4 #stranger things 5 #wiseheart #holly wheeler #st5 leaks

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strangertheories · 1 day

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Holly is missing: ST5 proof

As per leaked titles, an unnamed Wheeler vanishes

And it appears stranger things may have cast Nell Fisher, a blonde twelve year old from evil dead rise...

(a small but awesome thing)

All this to say, could Holly go missing? This would be a good end to episode one, especially if there is a time skip, as it gives a motivation for our heroes to spring back into action and we heard we'd be getting hero Mike. Thoughts?

#stranger things #holly wheeler #mike wheeler #byler #st5 #st5 theory #stranger things theory #stranger things five

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seigneurambigu · 1 day

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ST5 theory because I have nothing else to do

(I’m lying I literally have an eloquence contest tomorrow and still don’t know my speech but whatever)

So what if Holly disappears (since she’s been recasted she maybe has a more important role).

Everyone is sure she is in the upside down and go there to rescue her.

They all divides into different groups to find her faster. And Will and Mike are together. The two of them are visibly upset. Mike because he’s scared to death for his little sister and want to save her. And Will because he’s also scared for Holly and is back in the upside down so it makes him lots of traumas.

They end up fighting because they are tensed. And maybe talk about the painting or another thing I don’t know. So after that they are like really upset and not talk much to each other.

Finally they find Holly but it was a trap and Mike falls right into it and disappear.

Will ends up taking Holly back to Hawkins and totally looses his mind because he doesn’t know if Mike is alive and the last time they talked, they were angry at each other so he’s completely destroyed about it and does everything he can to find him. And it causes a parallel to season 1, but instead of Mike looking for Will, Will is looking for Mike. Refusing to think he’s dead.

#stranger things #byler #will byers #mike wheeler #st5 speculation #byler endgame #st5 #st5 predictions #holly wheeler #st5 theory

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fleursfairies · 1 day

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the vanishing of n a n c y wheeler

the vanishing of k a r e n wheeler

the vanishing of h o l l y wheeler

one of the wheeler girls are vanishing

im actually hoping its my girl holly

itd be like the vanishing of will byers part two

wait i love that

#vecna taking the youngest siblings #holly wheeler #nancy wheeler #karen wheeler #mike wheeler #ted wheeler #stranger things #stranger things 5 #will byers #stranger things theories

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bymarara · 24 hours

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Let's talk about this.

"The Vanishing of *** Wheeler." - So... Which Wheeler? Mike, Nancy, Holly? I'm leaning towards the last one, but! They all make sense. One can imagine how Vecna, could be after Mike, to at the same time, hurt Will, Al. Or, he could be using Mike as bait to lure them into a trap.

It's also conceivable that Vekna would come after Nancy for revenge because his plan didn't work out as planned, and Nancy, who knew more than anyone, almost killed him at the end of season 4.(But also, it would be as bait for others, a trap to lure them into the Otherworld.)

And the best part. What if it was Holly? Let's look back through all the seasons and realize the fact that she was somehow but connected to the Yznan, she saw a lot of things.

Season 1 - Holly was the one who went to the Byers house to get light bulbs and saw in Demogorgon style (saw somewhere a suggestion that it could even be Vekna, who even then wanted to kidnap her.).

Season 3 - On the Ferris wheel, Holly noticed that the trees were moving and apparently didn't believe her mom that it was the wind. I think Holly sensed something wrong, you know what they say, kids see more than adults.

Season 4 - We're shown that Holly is the first to notice ash from the sky, calling it snow. Once again, she's the first to notice something weird and it's not weird?

I think she's going to play a big role. Holly, Ted's favorite and father, Ted even fell asleep with her in his arms. We're told that Ted and Mike will have some kind of interaction, so why wouldn't it be a conversation like Ted is worried and starts asking Mike what the heck has been going on for years and where is the youngest daughter missing? Also, Holly's disappearance could strengthen the family as everyone will be on the lookout for the girl.

"Escape from Camazotz" - I think this is going to be a clash of the Bylers. We all know that the Bylers will likely have some sort of tension, but we know that they will most likely be Endgame this season. There are rumors and theories that the Bylers will become canon in episode 7. I think this all makes sense since we haven't been given the title of the last two episodes because they could be a huge spoiler.

" Sorcerer." - I can very likely tell you what was going on in Yznanka with him 1983. We'll be shown this with flashbacks that may show Vecna for some purpose, perhaps to get him to his side and show how similar they all are. Also, maybe it will show us that Will has the ability to hear and sense Vecna. Because of that, everyone might be afraid of him, since he can play both sides, or even if it's not him anymore, they might be afraid of him being evil. Mike and Joyce will be reminded of the events of season 2 and assure them that Will is fine.

#byler #byler endgame #finn wolfhard #mike wheeler #byler brainrot #will byers #mike wheeler fanart #noah schnapp #stranger things 3 #stranger things 4 #stranger things 5 #st5 #stranger things #stranger things s5 #joyce byers #holly wheeler #nancy wheeler #st5 spoilers

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lillie98 · 14 hours

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How to Save the World—Stranger Things 5

I’ve had some time to sleep on the episode titles and think about them, read theories, etc. and I now believe they might be real.

Hear me out: Stranger Things is all about cycles, parallels, tropes happening over and over again. The Duffers love taking a moment and repeating it in slightly different ways to prove a point. The story started with “The Vanishing of Will Byers” because we needed to place a small, innocent child in the center of our story, something to bring our character together and drive them to action. Well, that child is no longer in danger and our team is ripping apart at the seams. It’s almost like we need something similar to reunite everyone and drive them to action again.

Remember: The Duffers love parallels. Will’s disappearance brought his deeply fractured family together, uniting them for a common cause. It also brought Nancy and Jon together when their families needed them most. Now, the Byers are a united front, ready to tackle any monster that comes their way. They are the glorification of the avant-gard family. Now which family is struggling? The Wheelers. The perfect, All-America Nuclear Family: Mom, Dad, 3 kids, and a picket fence. They look perfect to the outside world, but behind closed doors, they are deeply struggling. They don’t communicate, the parents have idea what’s happening in their children’s lives, and if they’re not careful, if they don’t come together and form a united front—they’re going to lose everything, potentially causing the end of the world. (Why? I haven’t gotten that far yet!)

Now, how do we inspire them to action? Maybe by taking the child who was born to save their crumbling marriage—the one has seen everything but, up until this point, been too young to contribute. Now, she’ll be the same age Will was when he disappeared and Mike and Will are the same age as Jon and Nancy. The Duffers are trying to illustrate the idea of “The Next Generation.” This evil, this Upside Down dimension is NEVER going to stop until someone from the Wheeler and Byers families breaks the cycle. Children will continue to vanish, the world will continue to crumble, until someone steps up and says ENOUGH. The Wheelers and Byers (parents and children) must step up and face their pasts in order to move forward.

The “Stranger Things” are not only LGBTQ+ matters, they are the skeletons we hide in the closet that literally eat us alive. They are the dark, festering parts of ourselves we don’t let anyone else see. The invisible cancers that slowly and silently kill us. Until we face them head on, until we bring them to the light, they will NEVER die. Stranger Things is about owning your past, facing your fears, and finding the light again.

So yes, Stranger Things will end with Will Byers making it home from Mike Wheeler’s house on November 6, 1983, but not in a time traveling way, in a finally letting go of that scared, pained little boy who thought the world was better off without him. It’s Mike accepting his sexuality and place in his family. His role as a leader. It’s Joyce accepting love from Hopper, who must accept that he is not actually cursed, but that sometimes, bad things happen to good people, even when they think they’re doing the right thing (Vietnam). it’s Karen and Ted falling in love again and fighting to save their family. It’s Eleven discovering that love, not anger, should fuel her powers. It’s mourning your stolen childhood while stepping into the version of yourself that child never got to be. It’s stopping the cycle and creating a better world for the Will Byers and Mike Wheelers and Jane Hoppers of tomorrow. THAT’S how you become a Hero.

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thegayhimbo · 1 day

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Stranger Things Spoilers on X: "BREAKING: According to Jeff Sneider, these are the episode titles of the next 6 episodes of #StrangerThings5: Episode 1 - The Crawl Episode 2 - The Vanishing of ***** Wheeler Episode 3 - The Turbow Trap Episode 4 - Sorcerer Episode 5 - Shock Jock Episode 6 - Escape From Camazotz…" / X

So.........which Wheeler? Mike or Nancy? Or even Holly (as both @skellybonesandtrees and @stillhidden have noted in the replies)?

I could see Vecna coming after Mike as a way of hurting both Will and El, and even using Mike as bait to lure them into a trap.

However, I could also see Vecna coming after Nancy as revenge for how her plan to take him down in the season 4 finale nearly resulted in him being killed.

Or he could also target Holly as a means of hurting both Mike and Nancy.

Also, isn't Camazotz the planet IT controls in the novel A Wrinkle in Time? 🤔

EDIT: Camazotz could also refer to the Mayan "bat spirit" who served the Lords of the Underworld. Maybe a reference to either the demobats in service to Vecna in the Upside Down, or the progenitor of the demobats that the Party will have to inevitably fight?

#stranger things #stranger things 5 #stranger things season 5 #st5 spoilers #st5 theories #tgh opinions #mike wheeler #nancy wheeler #will byers #el hopper #vecna #henry creel #number 1 #holly wheeler #demobats #camazotz

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willthewise7 · 1 day

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So I'm back to find our potential titles of Season 5. Read on at your own risk.

Episode 1 - The Crawl

Episode 2 - The Vanishing of ***** Wheeler

Episode 3 - The Turbow Trap

Episode 4 - Sorcerer

Episode 5 - Shock Jock

Episode 6 - Escape From Camazotz

These titles are interesting and I certainly believe it's Holly Wheeler that will go missing. Possibly a throwback to Season 1 where she was nearly taken by the demogorgon. We also know the UD will bleed into the Wheeler's house in Season 5. This sets up one of them going missing into the UD, or perhaps taken. Remember the vision Nancy had of her family too, maybe this is tied in?

As for Episode 4, that could be a reference to Will The Wise. Perhaps it is discovered that he does have some sort of power that he was unaware of. Or it's referencing Vecna.

The others are harder to work out. Shock Jock could be a reference to the radio scenes that we saw in filming. That's my only guess currently.

I will do a more detailed analysis shortly.

These titles are subject to change though so bare that in mind.

#byler #will byers #stranger things 5 #st5 speculation #st5 spoilers #st5 leaks #holly wheeler

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human-ithink-yt · 1 day

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the vanishing of Mike wheeler is such a good episode title and I love how full circle it would be (but it probably won’t happen or if it does it he will probably go into the upside down with someone)

I think that if any of the wheelers go it would be holly or Karen and I��m leaning more toward holly right now because of the casting change

#byler #<<target audience #stranger things #st5 spoilers #st5 leaks #but actually is this real or is the guy who did it just making it up #cuz I really don’t trust any spoilers #especially anything this big #st5 #holly wheeler #karen wheeler #I’m aware Nancy could be the one too but i really don’t think that makes sense plot wise

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will80sbyers · 1 day

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IF these are real names

Mike and Nancy are both in ep. 4 they can't get randomly kidnapped in ep. 2 it must be either Holly or Karen but since they recasted Holly with someone expert in horror already I think it's gonna be Holly and her disappearing moves the plot along, we had also already theories about her being kidnapped I think it was from the comic they used in the script in ep. 9 I have to find the post again (here!!!) but basically a water monster kidnapped this blonde kid in the wonder woman comic and she has to save her from her enemy which looks like Max (Atomia?)

#byler #st5 speculation #st5 spoilers #st5 #stranger things #holly wheeler

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bylertruth3r · 1 day

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the vanishing of Holly Wheeler?

BYLER FOREHEAD KISS (IT'S GONNA PARALLEL THE JANCY FOREHEAD KISS)

#stranger things #byler #mike wheeler #mike wheeler is gay #will byers #stranger things 4 #st5 leaks #wiseheart #holly wheeler #nancy wheeler

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asexualenjolras · 1 day

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Stranger Things: the First Shadow shows us that Henry Creel was 12 when he first stumbled upon Dimension X (something that the show will be exploring, I'm sure of it, it's significant that Henry disappeared into this and not the Upside Down).

Will Byers was also 12 when he first went missing and entered the Upside Down.

If the title "the Vanishing of ***** Wheeler" for season five episode two is referring to Holly Wheeler, I'm so excited about what the significance of 12 is for the Upside Down.

Because there has to be something.

What do Henry, Will and Holly all have in common? They're all sensitive youngest children.

Eleven, Twelve...

The battle of Dimension X vs. the Upside Down, maybe?

I cannot wait.

#stranger things #stranger things the first shadow #st tfs #henry creel #will byers #holly wheeler #eleven #stranger things 5 #stranger things season 5 #duffer brothers #season 5

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henbeaka · 2 months

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actually im obssessed with the wheeler siblings thx

#yes holly's included #ppl who hate on the wheeler siblings ❌❌#byler #stranger things #mike wheeler #nancy wheeler #holly wheeler

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nicxxx5 · 2 years

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imagine what if all the byers (or at least will and jonathan) are staying with the wheelers during the upside down apocalypse in s5. holly, being the little 6 yro that she is knowing no personal boundaries, has been snooping in mike’s room when he’s not home and found the letters he wrote to will.

as the byers are moving into to the wheeler household, holly beams and jumps up to hug will because she hasn’t seen him in so long ”will!” and greets her just as enthusiastically “hi holly! how are you?” still smiling she says “good! i have something for you!” will looks at her surprised “you do?” she grins ”yeah!” she starts bounding up the stairs to get whatever it is she has for him. as she gets to the top of the stairs she yells down “i found it in mike’s room!”

mike who had been half listening whips around when he hears what holly just said. realizing what she might be referring to he yells and tries to stop her “hey! holly! wait! stay out of my room!” but its too late as holly is now coming down the stairs with a stack of envelopes in her hand and she hands them to will “see! they all have your name on them”

will takes them from her hand and looks at them confused. meanwhile, mike behind him has turned white as a ghost and started to panic as he looks at all his letters to will that are signed “love, mike” and where never meant to be sent are now in the hands of their recipient

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