#st5 speculation
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Thoughts on "Escape from Camazotz"
Oppressive Suburbia, Conformity, and Season 5 Themes
I've long thought that a major focus of Season 5 will be the contrast between the families of The Wheelers and The Byers, and exploring how non-traditional family environments can be freeing vs the oppressive structure of the nuclear family.
In a Wrinkle In Time, Camazotz is a planet controlled by the big bad of the book, the "IT", who forces the citizens into a conformity that resembles American suburbia. All of the houses the same, the citizens the same, doing the same things at the same time without individual identity. Without anything different. Different means a lot of things, but with Stranger Things dropping different in reference to Will's identity and the presumable themes of this season, it will heavily codify as queerness and how it threatens the cisheterosexual family model.
Henry was raised in the 1950s, a decade still revered by conservatives for it's traditional family dynamics that supposedly were the peak of culture and happiness for all. That was all a lie, of course, and Henry knew so as he shows to Nancy and Eleven during his monologue. The second most conservative decade aside from the 1950s in American society is widely considered to be the 1980s.
The Creels will serve in parallel to The Wheelers; the worst example of what they could become and the damage that this type of family could do to a child that is different in any way. Notice how Vecna selectively shows Nancy visions of The Wheelers dying, but not anyone else she may consider family or friends (like Jonathan).
That is; unless they change their ways and come together as a healthy functioning family facing their traumas, The Wheelers will be toast.
Karen has been moved up to a main character role this season. Ted's actor says the father starts to show up more for Holly (hold that) and realizes he wants to act differently. Holly has been recast. Finn has said Mike goes on a much more personal journey this season, and steps up as a leader.
Oh, also: the catalyst for all of this is that Holly goes missing. The contrast will help show how the Byers (including El and Hopper here) were able to pull together and help solve Will's disappearance, versus how the Wheelers as a closed off nuclear family grapple with Holly's vanishing.
Each of the Byers is in some kind of a non-1950s conformist relationship, but particularly Will (not in one now but we all know he will be). I think El might represent, after she breaks up with Mike, the fear of the unmarried woman being satisfied without a husband. The above shot really emphasizes my point.
I predict that Will will end up coming out to his family rather early on, and we will see all of them immediately accept him with little surprise or push-back. Will is a visible gay man who comes from an open minded non traditional family (divorced, non-married, adoptive) that is willing to have honest conversations.
But this theme will place the most focus on the Wheelers. Mike is the main character of said family and this will particularly focus on his arc, and his acceptance of his queerness in the midst of suburban conformity.
He is not visible, he comes from a Reagan-supporting family who don't communicate with each other. He is not particularly close with his family like Will is. He pushes his feelings down and tries his damn hardest to be normal despite it all. His trauma hasn't really been addressed at all. He is falling back into his usual habits - the one thing he dared to do different (grow his hair long) has gone back to how it was.
It's not all doom and gloom though. This season above all will be a redemption arc of the American nuclear family, how they choose to escape their conformity and learn to be there for each other, thus overpowering Vecna. Not that the Wheelers are going to end this personally.
"Great, more hysteria. Just what we need".
"It's the news, now indistinguishable from the tabloids".
#stranger things#mike wheeler#the wheelers#the byers family#byler#will byers#st5 speculation#henry creel#the specificity of this title alone and the themes gives me no doubt that these are all real#i also think this is the episode where byler is canonized and where mike finally escapes conformity#holly wheeler#ted wheeler#karen wheeler#i didnt really mention nancy at all sorry girl#if youre reading this PLEASE search up my username on youtube you will find it SO RELEVANT
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THE VANISHING OF HOLLY WHEELER!?
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AHAHAHA.
the episode titles of the first 6 episodes just leaked, and GUESS WHAT?
there's not a single mention of byler in any of them. HAHA.
because byler will NEVER happen!
ONCE AGAIN, YOU DELUSIONAL BYLERS HAVE LOST.
"b-b-b-but byler tumblr told me 5x05 would be called "the paladin and the cleric" and would end with a byler kiss 🥺 i thought-"
LMFAOOO. you thought wrong!
the duffers really are gonna humble you good when S5 comes out 🤣
you keep losing, and we love to see it.
BYLER IS BONES! AHAHAHA!
I’m not sure I believe the new leaked episode titles until further confirmation/clarification (I’m not much of a believer in “leaks” to begin with), but either way, this is an exceptionally silly ask even by Melvin hate anon standards.
Since when have episode titles explicitly referenced ships before??? And there’s no mention of M11 either? Or any other ship? So by that “logic,” none of them are happening. M11 bones. Jopper bones. Lumax bones. Jancy bones. Be serious for even one second. 🙄
The Paladin and the Cleric was always just a fun episode title idea. I don’t think anyone was married to it, what? 😭 I personally never believed it would be an actual title cause that seems way too on the nose to be a thing. Most episode titles only make sense in context.
And beyond that, I’d say that if these titles end up being true, there actually are some… interesting titles like Sorcerer and The Vanishing of ____ Wheeler that make me go 🤔 and set off my Byler spidey signals. And we still don’t have the final two possible episode titles.
The fact that you think Bylers are sheep who are easily swayed & controlled by what “Byler Tumblr” says instead of fans watching the show and coming to their own conclusions 💀
No one “lost” or “won” anything. You made up a strawman Byler in your head and then laughed at the strawman you created, which makes you the joke. And it also makes you sound super immature and silly. Middle school ahh logic. This ask makes no sense, and I’m only answering it because I’m baffled by it.
#byler#once again illustrating how nervous you all must be in your ship#no one who is secure in their ship rushes to send a nonsensical hate ask like this#will byers#mike wheeler#anti mileven#stranger things#stranger things 5#st5 speculation
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Am I the only one who thinks that the thematic and narrative climax of s5 (and low key the whole show) will be almost a direct parallel to the "You said yes" scene from s2?? Like same exact narrative and cinematic setup of Will being controlled by Vecna to the point where he's nearly gone or on the brink of death, and Mike being able to bring him back to reality with words of love???
Like I low key feel like that scene in s2 was supposed to serve as a precursor and foreshadowing to the climax of Byler rather than just standing on its own as an isolated event. We always talk on here about how Mike's monologue to El in s4 was supposed to directly contrast that scene and demonstrate how false and unnatural Milkvan's supposed "love" is, but we never really talk about just how awkward of a placement it is for the true and "authentic" love confession (Byler s2) to precede the clunky and false one (Milkvan s4). Like, imo it kind of leaves things on an awkward note and kind of hanging.
The only way it wouldn't be awkward or unfinished is if there ends up being a followup scene/parallel to the "you said yes" scene, and I think this is what's going to happen. I think Mike's monologue to El comes after the more romantic, authentic confession not only because it's supposed to contrast it but because the show is serving us two different "choices," two different options for Mike, two different scenarios. Not just for the sake of his character arc but in a meta sense as well, kind of like asking the audience, "which choice makes the most sense for Mike given the events up until now and the themes of the show? Can he be his most authentic and happiest self with Will or El?" And the natural followup to posing this dichotomy would be to answer this question for us by showing us in no uncertain terms why Will makes more sense for Mike as a long-term love interest.
The other reason why I believe this to be the case is because of the blocking of the s2 scene and the way it's set up: with Will being unable to move, unable to say anything or regain any control, and with Mike opening up and being vulnerable about his true feelings for Will [here comes the most important part lol] IN FRONT OF the other characters like Jonathan and Joyce (I can't remember if it was the entire rest of the cast in this scene or just those two?? I think it might've been everybody bc weren't they trying to get Will to communicate with them using morse code? I don't remember lmao) but anyways, I don't think it was a coincidence that Mike gave his grand "Do you remember the first day that we met?" speech not only to Will himself but in front of the other characters. Remember as well that Mike also confessed his "love" for El in front of an audience, and I don't think that's a coincidence either. I think it's leading to a final confession from Mike that will also take place in front of an audience and will serve as the "choice" that Mike makes between El and Will as well as the "choice" the Duffers present as being the correct narrative and thematic choice for the show. It's important that Mike's initial two confessions took place in front of an audience and also that his final one will, because this will also serve as Mike's "coming out" moment to the rest of the characters and to the audience. I think that Mike is going to have a second speech to Will that isn't just "I love you I love you I love you" over and over again like it was to El. It will be sweet and unique to Will and Byler's relationship except this time it will be explicitly, undeniably romantic so that no one will be able to even think that what he feels for Will is anything short of genuine, passionate, romantic love.
I wouldn't even be surprised if what Mike says closely parallels what he said to El except basically the opposite, alluding to the fact that it wasn't "love at first sight" for him but a slow, gradually building and gradually cultivating love that blossomed over the course of his entire life. Instead of "I knew then and there that I loved you" like he did to El, he could say something like, "I didn't realize it yet when I met you, and I'm not even sure I know when it happened, but I think I've spent my entire life slowly falling in love with you." And he says it with tears in his eyes and in front of all of the rest of the characters, who will also be crying (especially Joyce lol). And of course Will will just be sobbing even through Vecna's control over him, but it will be Mike's love that ultimately frees him from Vecna's hold over him. This would make sense, because unlike El, Will's story has never been about independence and breaking himself free, but about him and Mike breaking themselves free through teamwork a la "I think that we should work together. I think it'll be easier if we're a team."
#or maybe this is just wishful thinking#lmao#i just want a teary-eyed love confession#from mike in front of everybody#i deserve it we deserve it#byler#byler is endgame#byler is canon#byler brainrot#byler analysis#mike wheeler#will byers#mike wheeler analysis#st5#st5 speculation#st5 predictions#mike wheeler is not straight#mike wheeler is a boykisser#mike wheeler is in love with will byers#mike wheeler is gay#gay mike wheeler#byler tumblr#byler nation
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if the newly released episode titles are real, I think episode 6 is a reference to a wrinkle in time!! ESPECIALLY considering there is LITERALLY a picture of it in this post on ross's instagram:
since this is a classic sci fi novel it makes total sense for it to be referenced in the show!!
if you haven't read the book, camazotz is a planet in the story that houses a mind-controlling entity called IT, that essentially brainwashes/controls all its residents (if this is a very shallow explanation I apologize, I haven't read it in a while). this is very interesting to me as the idea of an entity controlling/haunting/brainwashing people is also used in stranger things as we know with the mind flayer & vecna. to me, it seems likely that at least this title is real! at least I hope it is, because I love this book and it would be a perfect fit
"escape from camazotz" is a very interesting title too, as to me it feels like that would mean escaping some sort of purgatory or hellscape, which likely refers to the upside down in this context
if anybody else has theories relating to this lmk!!!
(also sorry if this has already been said)
#stranger things#stranger things 5#st5#st5 spoilers#st5 speculation#st5 leaks#st5 production#a wrinkle in time#stranger things theory#byler#< target audience#theory post
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ST5 theory because I have nothing else to do
(I’m lying I literally have an eloquence contest tomorrow and still don’t know my speech but whatever)
So what if Holly disappears (since she’s been recasted she maybe has a more important role).
Everyone is sure she is in the upside down and go there to rescue her.
They all divides into different groups to find her faster. And Will and Mike are together. The two of them are visibly upset. Mike because he’s scared to death for his little sister and want to save her. And Will because he’s also scared for Holly and is back in the upside down so it makes him lots of traumas.
They end up fighting because they are tensed. And maybe talk about the painting or another thing I don’t know. So after that they are like really upset and not talk much to each other.
Finally they find Holly but it was a trap and Mike falls right into it and disappear.
Will ends up taking Holly back to Hawkins and totally looses his mind because he doesn’t know if Mike is alive and the last time they talked, they were angry at each other so he’s completely destroyed about it and does everything he can to find him. And it causes a parallel to season 1, but instead of Mike looking for Will, Will is looking for Mike. Refusing to think he’s dead.
#stranger things#byler#will byers#mike wheeler#st5 speculation#byler endgame#st5#st5 predictions#holly wheeler#st5 theory
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here's the thing. after the van scene being what it was, mike has to find out about will's feelings in s5. that's a given, and it's basically confirmed that he'll find out. he's going to discover eleven didn't commission the painting, and he's going to know will loves him. and with strong, long-held feelings like that involved, let me tell you from real life experience... two people cannot just stay friends. being in love and staying friends is too awkward, too painful. things won't be the same as before. they will be changed irreversibly. they will either go their separate ways because of will's one-sided love being too uncomfortable, or feelings will be reciprocated and the relationship will shift into new territory.
if mike and will going their separate ways and ending their friendship is endgame, why bother to show them drifting apart after the byers' move to california, and then spend a whole season building back up their bond stronger than before…? especially doing it in direct contrast to mike's romantic relationship with eleven being shown as fraught with dishonesty, dysfunction, and insecurity, and on the track to deteriorating in the final moments of that same season? why would you rebuild a relationship between mike and will and highlight its importance, only to drive another huge and unscalable wall between them, estranging them again? that just doesn't make sense narratively and it would be senseless writing. you can't do the same thing twice, leave it unresolved the second time, and end a show like that... unless you're going for a really unhappy and hopeless ending which, i can't believe stranger things could really be the show to do that, especially with two of its main and most beloved characters.
#and this doesn't even consider mike's conflict over his relationship with eleven being indicated as having deeper connotations!!!! bitch!!#i'm having thoughts AGAIN this is so sick#like... how else are they going to pull off preserving mike and will's bond at this point if the love is unrequited. i just don't know man#if they make the gay kid have an unrequited love ending in 2024-2025 i swear to god i'm seriously going to sue#i need this damn season to come out so i can get over these stupid psychic cold war queers and finally get some sleep#stranger things#byler#st5#st5 speculation#byler endgame#eve text
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Stranger Things 5 speculation based on the episode titles and what we know from D&D
Vanishing of Holly Wheeler?
I already shared that I think Episode 2 is Holly Wheeler: "IF this information is accurate, I'm guessing the missing Wheeler is Holly. They have a new actress to play her. There are also five asterisks. I think they're returning to s1 themes and the horror of a child being in danger is one thing they might get back to. The 1st episode would give them time to make her a character we care about. (And probably stabilize the situation at the end of s4.) It would also consume the entire Wheeler family into getting Holly back. Karen will be beside herself. Nancy will be tough and take charge. Will will have to unearth his memories of the Upside Down, and possibly use his connection, to help MIKE and NANCY get back their little sister. One possible road to BYLER is Will having to reexperience his trauma and possibly sacrifice himself to help his best friend."
Camazotz
I see a LOT of interest in episode 6 title "Escape from Camazotz"... I think for ANY speculation we HAVE to go to where our D&D nerds would go, which is the Dungeons & Dragons sourcebooks in the 80s. Camazotz was published in Deities & Demigods for Advanced Dungeons & Dragons (1980). It is the "bat god," so we're probably going to see it tied to the demobats.
We learn from Deities & Demigods that the Aztec and Mayan gods have "inscrutable motives"... which is ON BRAND for the Cthulhu inspirations of Stranger Things. These gods come from a "parallel universe." Clerics "are the elite of the populace," and are able to cast "commune or gate spells" to connect the planes together. ("Will the Wise" has been the cleric of the party... perhaps he is a cleric?)
Also, these gods "unusual nature makes it impossible for them to travel on any planes but the ones that they have worshipers on." Maybe Vecna needed to have a host on the "Right Side Up", to take form here, which is very consistent with the s2 and s3 plotlines.
The clerics perform human sacrifices... maybe another theme in s5??
But perhaps JUST as important, the adventure D&D module Hidden Shrine of Tomoachan (1980) involved an ancient temple dedicated to Camazotz. Odds are that our heroes will be trying to escape from a "temple" within the Upside Down. According to the Wikipedia article about this adventure, it is "full of tricks and traps".
As a "tournament module," meaning for competition purposes, and it was EXPECTED that heroes died in it because it was so deadly. The goal "is to get out of the ruins before time runs out." The lower levels (where the heroes begin) have a poisonous gas that slowly kill them. Also it is very unstable, spells will cause a collapse. If El were caught in it, it might be dangerous to use her powers.
This adventure debuted the gibbering mouther, a very distinct D&D monster that is VERY reminiscent of the s3 Flayer and would be VERY on-theme for Stranger Things:
The Sorcerer
Also, Episode 5 is titled "The Sorcerer." Sorcerer was not a class yet in D&D in the late 1980s. (The idea that Sorcerers have innate arcane power versus Wizards who study magic, was not invented yet until 2000.) Sorcerer was one of the many titles that Magic Users had (next to Wizard). Sorcerers had less power than Wizards. They were 9th level, while Wizards were 11th level:
It is already established that El is "the Wizard." Maybe there's another person with powers in season 5 which are less developed? If so, the most logical choice would be Will. It's confirmed that this season will focus on him. Although he's a "cleric" in their D&D game, maaaaybe he finds out he has new abilities. There was a reason Vecna didn't kill in season 1, and who has had "truesight" since.
That's what I can find for now! There's a lot of interesting traps and puzzles, with illustrations, from the adventure. But it's hard to predict what else (if anything) they might borrow from it! The aspect of escaping, and the poison gas and the timer, are probably what we can most rely on!
P.S. I mainly blog about Byler, but I thought my D&D knowledge would be useful for this one. If interested, follow and read my blog! I have so much to say!
#stranger things#D&D#st5#st5 speculation#camazotz#escape from camazotz#sorcerer#vanishing of holly wheeler#byler
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Episode 4: Sorcerer
I THINK WE ALL FYCKING KNOW WHO THAT IS???
#stranger things#will byers#st5 leaks#st5 bts#st5 speculation#st5 spoilers#st5#st5 production#st5 predictions
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“what do you think will happen in s5 of stranger things??” i don’t know but i assume there will be a lot of crying and hugging
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So I'm back to find our potential titles of Season 5. Read on at your own risk.
Episode 1 - The Crawl
Episode 2 - The Vanishing of ***** Wheeler
Episode 3 - The Turbow Trap
Episode 4 - Sorcerer
Episode 5 - Shock Jock
Episode 6 - Escape From Camazotz
These titles are interesting and I certainly believe it's Holly Wheeler that will go missing. Possibly a throwback to Season 1 where she was nearly taken by the demogorgon. We also know the UD will bleed into the Wheeler's house in Season 5. This sets up one of them going missing into the UD, or perhaps taken. Remember the vision Nancy had of her family too, maybe this is tied in?
As for Episode 4, that could be a reference to Will The Wise. Perhaps it is discovered that he does have some sort of power that he was unaware of. Or it's referencing Vecna.
The others are harder to work out. Shock Jock could be a reference to the radio scenes that we saw in filming. That's my only guess currently.
I will do a more detailed analysis shortly.
These titles are subject to change though so bare that in mind.
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The Vanishing of BLANK Wheeler
I wanted to make a list, from least likely to most likely, for which Wheeler I think is going to go missing.
But I also wanted to give a little disclaimer first, that even if these titles are real, they could still be fake, or could even possibly change given how much time we still have until s5 actually premieres.
For s2-3, the Duffers literally released official promo videos announcing episode titles for their upcoming season, with some of them changing when the season finally premiered.
Like in the case of s3 for example, they dropped a s3 episode promo video only a day after they completed filming. Meaning them titling 3x06 The Birthday, made absolutely no sense. They knew they didn't film anything birthday related for that episode. So they intentionally gave that one a fake name.
In the case of s4, that was the first time they promoted an upcoming season without giving fake titles, with the s4 promo announcing them following through with what we ended up with when s4 finally dropped.
I guess I sort of assumed s5 would follow in s4's footsteps, but from a leak standpoint, it might be smart to remember that fake titles are still a possiblity regardless. Especially in this case, where it's getting to the point in production where leaks are unavoidable. And so that might even explain why they play with this idea of fake episodes, which is because they can rest easy knowing leaks will mostly consist of half fake titles they planted there.
But for the sake of this post, lets humor the title for episode 2.
For starters, it's worth noting that the person who shared this leak originally said 'BLANK wheeler'. So as far as I know, they did not give any number of letters via underscores (_) to hint at who this Wheeler could possibly be. It's when ST news accounts caught wind of the leak and started rolling out posts, replacing BLANK with 5 underscores, that led a lot of fans to assume that the Wheeler had to have 5 letters in their name, which would have obviously ruled out Ted and Mike. But since all the Wheeler's are still on the table based on the original leak, they will all be included in this list.
5. Ted Wheeler
Believe it or not, there is something that I think actually warrants considering Ted as a possiblity.
There were some posts @stranger-chichka made a while back, comparing visual parallels between Stranger Things and Chernobyl, which could be hinting at this concept of Ted being in danger.
TBH though I think Ted being in danger or ending up dead is a possiblity regardless of him actually being the missing Wheeler.
Technically speaking, quite literally no one on the show is ruled out from being in danger at this point, so that's not saying much.
And considering the show is going to need to kill off some people next season and they are insistent on not killing any of their leads, supporting characters amongst the ranks have a high risk at being taken out. The emotional connection for Ted from the audience isn't as strong as other characters, but at least him being in close relation to a few main characters is something? I mean, he's funny I guess?
Quite frankly I don't think it's likely nor do I think it would actually make sense narratively for Ted to be the one to go missing out of all of them. I think it's a lot more likely they'd just kill him off, hence the Chernobyl parallels which imply he's gonna die. And so wasting time by having him go missing, only to kill him, just doesn't track. I think they'd just get that over with without dragging it out for very long, if anything.
Can you just imagine someone on the show shouting emotionally, It's Dad (Ted). He's gone.' Like, okay... And? I have a hard time imagining the characters being in serious turmoil over this, at least not enough for it to warrant like final season stakes amongst a bunch of other crazy shit happening. At best, the characters would be indifferently guilty for getting him roped into all this.
So yeah, I really don't see it happening.
4. Nancy Wheeler
I honestly feel like Nancy is even less likely to go missing than Ted, but the un-seriousness of an episode titled The Vanishing of Ted Wheeler is so astronomical, that I really had no choice but to put him last.
The reason I think Nancy is just very unlikely to go missing is because they technically already had her go missing as a cliffhanger between Vol 1 and 2 last season. It would just fall flat if they repeated something along those lines, with that same character, 3 episodes later. Vecna could have killed her and yet he didn't. His point was to send her a message, which was why he did what he did and then released her. The choice to target Nancy and taunt her about her family's safety in the first place, felt like their attempt at foreshadowing the danger that is to come for all of them, but one specifically. One of them that is not her. Which will make this moment back in s4 feel a lot more impactful upon rewatches.
So yeah, not feeling like Nancy is very likely.
3. Karen Wheeler
Karen is sort of a hard nut to crack all around. In the case that she is somehow connected to the Creels (Alice), anything is possible in terms of not only her being targeted, but again the entire family being at risk in some capacity. Without much to go off of outside of the obvious very haphazard timeline confusion, I feel like putting her somewhere in the middle. She was given a poster for s4. If she is Alice, then yeah it would make sense to target her. The stakes are also a lot stronger in comparison to Ted, because she was the parent in the family that actually came to Mike or Nancy and told them verbally that she wanted them to open up to her and is actually shown trying on several occasions. Whereas Ted is sort of just there when he's on screen. So the characters' distress would be a lot more dire and interesting to see unfold amongst everyone.
I also remember there being a leak in relation to Karen, Holly, Mike and Nancy all being at the hospital filming. And this was also like a day or so after ST dropped a video of Cara saying she was filming that day to hype up fans. So that leak did check out on the Karen front at least. Which puts her at the hospital at some point, potentially along with the rest of the Wheelers. Now that I'm thinking about it though, this could all fit with a Ted Wheeler death...
At this point, I'm sort of like indifferent to the possiblity, but it's still more likely than Ted and Nancy to me.
2. Holly Wheeler
It all goes back to s1, when Karen was visiting the Byers to console Joyce after Will went missing, when Holly sort of ventures off to Will's room, being guided by the lights, and sees the demogorgan in the wall.
I feel like people overlook this moment too, because it's kind of crazy that Holly has seen UD shit for herself. She was young enough that she could rule it out as just imagining things. And that could be partly the case even if she is skeptical.
There is something about Holly that makes her curious and sort of open to this world that most around her have no idea exists. And yet simultaneously some of the people closest to her do know about it and could easily clue her in when the time comes to do so, and because of that, I think she would probably be able to believe it all a lot faster than others.
Maybe this is a story where things need to happen and it just always ends up this way, but she has this tendency to be included in things that feel very important. Like in s4 with her playing with the lite-brite, and how that ended up being used to communicate with the others in the UD. There's this almost clairvoyance vibe about her. Her feeling the need to follow the Christmas lights to Will's room and her noticing and then fixating on the trees in s3.
Like I said, I don't know if it's something deeper, but it very well could be in the case she is connected to the Creels.
And while that is all somewhat compelling, at the same time it also feels very convoluted. Even if the Wheelers are Creels, I don't think that means the Wheelers would have powers, given that Henry got them when he was a child, meaning none of his family could have gotten them unless they too were taken in by the lab at some point, or were born with it.
Though I'm being full serious when I say the theories about Mike having time powers or maybe just manifestations from his emotions connected to the powers of others around him is one of my favorite theories of all time. I want it to happen. It would be cool. But that just opens the door to all of the Wheelers in my opinion, assuming his time powers came from being related to Henry. And if it was done that way, I feel like it would add way too much confusion to the story, where now all the Wheelers are gonna need to have powers, and then as a result would just takes away from the uniqueness that is already associated with Henry, El and potentially Will. One person potentially having powers without us knowing until the end aka Will, is enough honestly. Adding the Wheelers to the mix might be a bit much.
I'm also not totally convinced of the Wheeler's being Creels, and yet I also can't seem to want to rule it out entirely. But the prospects of Holly having powers or some sort of ability and just going through the same thing as Will when he was young and unaware of his powers, who is just now finding out the truth about his experiences... It just feels like serious whiplash honestly, when they haven't spent much of any time on Holly up to this point.
Like what are the stakes here exactly? What makes her disappearance and what that would look like compelling, on her front specifically? Because sure, I can see it being compelling watching the perspective of those around her reacting to this, what they would do to try to save her and all that, but what does that mean for her exactly? Are we going to see what she's doing? Are they going to hide it from us like they did with Will and then have to spend even more time uncovering it later on. And what does she even gain from being alone and taunted by Vecna presumably? What does the audience gain from witnessing that sort of event? There isn't a lot of story to explore there, outside of maybe making direct parallels to Will in s1? And then wouldn't that sort of take away from the importance of Will's role in it all just now being uncovered, if it all just repeats for Holly?
Which brings me to something that I see a lot of people using as strong evidence for why it has to be Holly, which is the fact that they recast her character.
What I think people are failing to consider is the fact that the twins who were cast to play Holly originally, were like 3-4 years old while filming s1. They weren't just kid actors, they were damn near baby actors. And while I know a big part of the reason why they gave Holly such few lines over the years was because the actors were aging way faster than the character they played, I think another factor could have been the fact that their acting experience is near nothing outside of Stranger Things, which is also pretty little on its own as well given that they have very few lines on the show.
It's not at all uncommon for child actors, let alone toddler actors to leave the industry once they start getting older. It could be for personal reasons, like wanting to explore other ventures, or it could be that they just don't perform as well with all the added expectations that come with acting as a character who is a kid with a lot of lines vs. a baby with 2 lines.
The girls got cast because at the time, they were able to perform as well as a 3 year old possibly could and would be expected to be in that role. But does that skill carry forth as they grew older? When now they have to deliver full sentences and carry conversations for scenes that are longer than 5 minutes? They've never really had to do that up to this point. Is it something that they feel comfortable with doing? Is their performance believable and is it something the writers feel confident about?
Honestly, I think they might have recast Holly, not because I think she is going to be targeted and focused on as this missing person they have to find, going through a near identical situation to 11 year old Will, but because they simply want her to be more apart of the story in general. And maybe because either the twins and/or the production didn't feel that they would be able to perform it in the way that they wanted it to be done.
And I mean, even if Holly isn't the one to go missing, one of the Wheelers is going to go missing based on this leak. If it was one of her parents, she would get a lot more scenes than she has in the past. If it was one of her siblings, again it would make sense for her to be more involved with the story. No matter what she is going to have a bigger role.
So no I don't think her being recast is as strong enough of proof as some might believe. If anything I think there is much stronger evidence that, like Karen, if they are related to the Creels, Holly is as fair game as any of them. The stakes could be high because she i such s a child. And her parents and Nancy and Mike worrying about her seems like something they would obviously do because she is so innocent and completely ill-equipped to endure something like that. But like I said, I just can't picture an focus like that on her, for her character, being very compelling given that Holly isn't really someone that needs like alone time with us witnessing it...
But there is one Wheeler left, and boy oh boy would he benefit from being alone.
1. Mike Wheeler
The most simple explanation for why it makes sense for it to be Mike, is that he genuinely benefits more than anyone when it comes to being alone with his thoughts, and with the audience watching. There's a lot of stuff dude has to work through in his own head, and since they haven't really let us have a moment alone with him that isn't under ten seconds since s3, an episode or two dedicated to making that a priority would make him coming back and things building up to the end, feel a lot more earned.
The audience needs to feel confident about how Mike feels about things. It can't be a guessing game for much longer when so many different factors are involved.
And while I think Mike may be the strongest possiblity in terms of the value it would add to the overall story is compelling enough to put him at number 1, the evidence supporting it happening is even stronger.
If we want to be crazy we can go back to the beginning. Plenty of fans have already speculated about how Mike is always late at the start of every season and how that might play into the beginning of season 5 again. I made a post about this recently and speculated it would happen one last time around the 15 minute mark. And maybe I was wrong... but maybe I was also right? Because if the second episode is called The Vanishing of Mike Wheeler, it's likely Mike's fate wouldn't be confirmed by the opening of 5x01, but in fact the closing scene of 5x01.
Throughout the show Mike plays a key role in leading the others, he's even referred to as 'the key' in s3 by Hopper. You know this show and their keys, they don't joke about that sort of thing. It's likely that Mike's story and what it is leading to is going to be central to how all of this ends.
Also in s3, there is one scene in particular that I think could be hinting at Mike being targeted, along with the s4 main poster with all of the characters. In the poster, we see El at the top, with Max and Mike as near equals on each side of her. Of course their roles are central and that's a fair layout on it's own arguably, but the equal-ness provided to Mike and Max feels very intentional. While she is slightly bigger than Mike in the frame, that could be a hint in regards to her being central now in s4, with Mike joining the mix alongside her in s5. Honestly, they could have made it so these two were beside other characters that also played a huge role in s4, and yet they chose those two to give a specific focus to. I think that is interesting (and probably intentional).
But if I'm being honest, there are so many moments in s4 specifically that hint at Mike being in danger, that I will not be able to include it all in detail in this post. So I'm going to link those below and then build off of some of it with some new details I've recovered that are worth re-contextualizing again with all of this in mind.
Hints regarding Mike and Will being targets of the town, but Mike specifically being focused on after the word 'missing' is said...
I'm gonna expand on this one because I think it's important to recognize the massive curtain in the background as this is all happening. And I vaguely reference this concept here as well which is worth checking out. But not is this whole concept of the curtain pretty blatant in this episode, this scene of the town all fleeing to hunt down hellfire club, is followed directly after, by this:
Notice how Mike is nearly always central in these moments? And how what follows feels eerily similar to what is about to go down at the end of s4 aka Suzie = Mike.
Now, this has already been talked about plenty so I won't go into detail, but... based on everything else happening surrounding this, this would apply to Mike in the sense that not only is he not in love with El, he's gay and in love with Will aka a boy. A BOY!
And then this mention of 'the terrible truth'. This word has been used like 3 times in the last few minutes. First intensely during Jason's speech about a terrible truth, with Ted and Karen being focused on with the Mike and Will extra in the background.
But what is even more crazy is that what follows sort of seals the deal for me that, this IS about Mike and it's foreshadowing what is about to come in s5.
5:02... 5x02!!!!
Also peep the watch and the letter from Dustin under it... I don't want to speculate but lettergate is looking extra relevant within all of this as well...
And to close off this point, lets show the shot that follows directly after this one.
Then later in the season, after Nancy is back from being taken by Vecna, here we have this long and emotional pause before she says Mike's name, last after her mom and Holly.
If they wrote and filmed this scene, knowing Mike would be the Wheeler missing early s5, it would make sense for them to list off the characters like this.
Mike peeking in the frame at this moment is not suspicious at all...
If it wasn't enough that Jason hyped up the whole town to see the Hellfire club as their enemy responsible for all of this, here we have a focus on Mike specifically being targeted by Jason.
The Duffer's statement about the show overall in the Piggyback script, and I gotta say it fits Mike a lot more than any of the other Wheelers.
Mike is a Paladin. And when they break an oath, they might spend an all-night vigil as a sign of penitence... aka everything is going to come to a head and Mike is going to be alone dealing with this shit for a bit, until he can come back ready to face it.
And I know it's controversial, but this post explains perfectly why Mike being central to this would make the show go full circle in a really compelling way.
Mike hasn't really unpacked...
Karen lookalike standing in front of the missing persons board. Could be any one of them but still, considering the costume of this extra looks closer to what Karen was wearing when she reunited and hugged Mike... I'm gonna put it more so with him.
Mike's guilt and shame regarding the past and what it has led them to could also play a big role and why him going missing would be worthwhile to explore. Part 1 / Part 2
Mike paralleling Yuri, who eventually reveals the truth (in his pocket) after stalling. If Mike parallels him all throughout the start of that moment, what does that mean for how it ends for Mike?
An antique funeral home fan behind Mike in the s4 character promo photos in the Creel attic, how Mike is seen sitting before Will sits beside him shortly after and it involving upside down imagery, Mike's first line in the show being used to later foreshadow his fate in early s5, and also bringing it back to Suzie's house which I already went into but it might be helpful to look at it again from this lens.
The Duffers would not pass up on the opportunity to parallel Mike with Finn's other character Richie in IT, which is literally based on a book that heavily inspired ST in the first place. And how all of that plays into the queer-coding for Mike going all the way back to s1.
The Duffers revealed after posting the funko-pop shotplanning pictures (2) that they were finished with planning for 5x01-5x02.... meaning this shot of Mike all by himself, is going to occur in one of those episodes...
We could still hypothesize Holly is the one to be taken, given that she doesn't have a funko and so they couldn't include her here regardless. But the fact that Nancy is with the other seems to imply to me that they are all likely working together to get Mike back, who is alone.
This one is a little more hard to pinpoint for sure, but it comes from a BTS Ross posted recently.
We are clearly in the Wheeler's house here. And if you zoom in, it looks like someone is standing (hiding?) behind a doorway/curtain. And the only person that seems to fit it imo is Mike... But why would he be hiding in his own house...?
It just makes me think about what is going on with Mike in early s5. What would be occurring that has him in this sort of situation? And it makes me wonder if him going missing has solely to do with him being taken and gone in one single moment, or if it could involve him avoiding his family and others potentially, with him being taken after that.
Lastly, I'm going to go into more choppy territory, stuff I know only a couple of people will actually consider. But it is pretty fucking fitting of what is about to go down so I can't not mention it.
In the Puzzle Tales' most recent Hellfire Campaign, this is the title...
Like the whole chapter is just a big joke on Mike about him being scared to be alone, which is painfully ironic if this is the direction the show is about to go for the next 2 upcoming episodes.
And then we have a song WSQK posted on Twitter back in January. I know people don't believe that this account is connected with anyone in the production, which is fair because I myself rarely believe leaks from anonymous accounts as it is. But I've been keeping up with it and it genuinely doesn't seem like a fan could come up with these songs.
The song I'm about to mention is the 7th song they posted, called Army Dreamers by Kate Bush. And you might fight it sounds a lot like the situation Mike might find himself in in early s5.
And though I'm sure I didn't cover everything, I feel like all the things I've mentioned and referenced from other posts are plenty to at least consider this as opposed to rejecting it all together.
At the end of the day I think there are some valid arguments for all of them to some extent. And quite frankly all of the Wheelers and most of the characters in the show will find themselves in danger in a way that is going to probably last longer than just one single moment the entire season. So even if it's just one of them, I don't think that rules out the others playing a bigger role in what is going down.
I just think narratively, there is one person that benefits from being on-screen and alone with their thoughts. And the other 4 being confronted with what that person discovers eventually will also make all of this a lot more worthwhile than any of the other options in my opinion.
#byler#stranger things#st5 theory#st5 speculation#mike wheeler#mike wheeler run#I think i'm going to just not tag a bunch like i usually do because jesus this was long and I think I got my point across#if you're still not convinced and think it's more likely to be one of the other wheelers that's fine#as long as it's not ted bc i can't take that episode title seriously i just can't#also if there are errors it’s bc I only edited this 50x instead of 100x like I usually do#I’ll come back later to check so sorry for what I imagine is a bunch of confusing parts 😭
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The TurNbow trap...
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I added subtitles, feel free to add what's missing!
this is collaborative soo it has many of your ideas from the previous post :)
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Happy Birthday Will Byers // from Ross Duffer’s Instagram
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there’s something about this little moment here that tells you everything you need to know about the love triangle between mike, el and will.
i remember that video of eduardo talking about how the directors would pause to make finn and noah have a “shared look” and this is so clearly one of those moments. this is so prevalent to bylers’ relationship. they are the first person they look to in a room. they want to share their reactions with each other. they look to each other for reassurance in their own reactions. they know what the other is thinking at just a glance (“i didnt say it” “you didnt have to”). but what is so important about This “shared look” is that mike turns away from will to look at el, almost like he wants to share this moment with her as well. all three of them know what really went down, how its not “a miracle” as lucas says, and they are the Only three that know, it would make sense for them to all share a moment of understanding between the three of them. instead, what happens? mike and will share a look, share understanding, mike then looks to el to share understanding with her, and she is looking away. mike and will both prioritize communicating this revelation with each other while el is only focused on max, she doesn’t need, want, or prioritize that connection at this time. its not that mike and will dont care about max, they simply want to share that care and worry and reaction with each other. i think mike in general wants someone who he can share that type of communication with, so he looks to who’s supposed to be his partner at this moment, el (post love confession they should be closer right?), and simply does not receive it. i think you can even see the little look of disappointment when he turns to her and find she’s not looking back at him. he is looking for the connection he so naturally has with will in who he’s in an Actual Relationship with and cannot find it. he will only ever find that within his relationship with will, there is no replicating it with a girl he is simply not in love with.
#byler#stranger things#will byers#mike wheeler#byler tumblr#stranger things 5#byler endgame#st5#st5 speculation#byler analysis#el hopper#byler theory#stranger things theory#stranger things analysis
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