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teambyler · 12 hours

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The reason for no explicit hints to the GA that Mike likes Will yet

One thing doubters of Byler have right is that there have NOT been the usual (i.e., explicit for the General Audience) clues that Mike is gay/bi or likes Will. We all know what this would look like in TV media.

Here are two examples of the classic Almost-Kiss With Interruption Trope from s1:

We haven't seen that for Mike and Will. Nor have we seen Transparent Closet tropes like Mike having a clear Gay Panic moment, or zooming-in to his face while he checks out a guy, etc. (NOTE: They HAVE been there but are too subtle for the GA. Mike's entire demeanor in the "I feel like I lost you" scene is there for those who see gay subtext.)

Why not?

Put yourself in the Duffers’ shoes. Imagine you plan a Byler conclusion. Would you be able to do any of the above things? NO, not without giving away the ending.

There would have been a huge hoopla in the mainstream in 2022, about the "bisexual love triangle" in Stranger Things. It would dwarf the current one about Buck being bi in 9-1-1, with the media screaming "Breakthrough for LGBT representation!" There would be little remaining suspense about who Mike would end up with in the YEARS leading up to s5, because (1) any non-Byler conclusion would become the most notorious instance of queerbaiting in media history, and, (2) in many ways with which Bylers are familiar, even the GA would have to conclude that Mike and Will are meant for each together and more compatible than El and Mike ever were.

A love triangle isn't effective if there's no suspense. The Duffers kept suspense with Jancy at the end of s1. Through the season, it looked like Nancy was going to end up with Jonathan. But then they redeemed Steve and he had his scene with Nancy at Christmas. THAT was enough to maintain the "Will they or won't they?" for a straight love triangle. But any similar setup for Mike, El, and Will case would have no suspense: the GAY HYYYPPPE would overshadow everything. In the case of 9-1-1, the writers have handled the hype for Buck+Eddie by placing another GAY love interest (Tommy) in the way of the pairing many fans have long wanted. The Duffers clearly can't do that with El.

The Duffers have to limit themselves to bread crumbs that Mike and Will will end up together, enough for observant viewers to see. And it's REALISTIC that homophobia would keep two best friends who love each other from hiding their true feelings, for fear that it would ruin their friendship. It will be like every other well-prepared TV plot twist in recent years. Many will be surprised; others will brag how they saw it all along. Everyone will see the past clues and exclaim, "OF COURSE this is what they were building up to! It was OBVIOUS all along!" =D

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#byler #byler theory #byler speculation #st5 #mike is gay #mike is bi #mike wheeler #will byers

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teambyler · 2 days

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I'm guessing Dustin is screaming to Steve

In the new video leak, it sounds most like Dustin to me. Also, we all know he has a special bond with Steve. Plus, Dustin lost Eddie precisely because Eddie DIDN'T run.

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I'm not 100% sure who's screaming... but I DO know it's completely unhinged and that someone will die or almost die this season, possibly not even halfway through (they're still early in shooting). Season 5 will be SO INTENSE!

EDIT: "Do you hear me?" suggests they're trying to scream to be heard. Maybe through a walkie-talkie, or maybe they're using the radio tower to be heard in the Upside Down... (Remember how in s1 they used a radio to connect to the UD)

#stranger things #st5 #st5 speculation #dustin henderson #steve harrington #leak #scream

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teambyler · 3 days

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The final shot of s4 centered on Mike and Will, foreshadowing s5

They could've made El the final shot of the season, but it ended on the whole group, with MIKE and WILL in the center of the frame:

It's fair to believe these final images (which have no dialogue) foreshadow season 5 and that Mike and Will's relationship is central to s5. They even breathe in sync. Mike and WIll "being a team" against Vecna was hinted at several times in s4.

The Duffers have said that Season 5 is Will-centered... If the new episode titles are legit, we now also know one of the Wheelers will "vanish" (I'm guessing Holly) in episode 2. Will's memories of his own kidnapping and his connection to Vecna can be key to rescuing whoever goes missing.

The Duffers have said s5 will return to s1 themes. Mike and Will's closeness was established from the very beginning, and was central to s1 and s2.

Mike and Will WILL team up somehow, just as Mike shyly asked them to be back in California. A Wheeler will likely go missing. Just as Jonathan and Nancy grew closer looking for Barb and Will together, Mike and Will will grow even closer than they already are.

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#byler #foreshadowing #stranger things #final shot #st4 #st5 #st5 speculation #byler evidence #byler analysis

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teambyler · 3 days

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Vanishing of ***** Wheeler? Now we know what "Leader Mike" will be doing

Finn Wolfhard himself said we'll see a return of "leader Mike" this season:

My best guess is that Holly -- who a new actress was cast for -- goes missing. We go back to s1 dynamics, with a missing child. In s1 the kids couldn't rely on the government. In s5, the government has too much to deal with to bother itself with one missing kid. Mike has to come up with a daring plan and rally the Party, and puts his hand down. Lucas' hand goes down first after Mike's -- maybe motivated because this can also help bring Max back. Then Will's hand, then Dustin's hand.

Will being Vecna's first victim and having a special connection to the Upside Down means that Will is key to the plan as well. Because he is important, he will BE A TARGET for Vecna.

Mike's character became less important (and less likeable to many) in s3 and s4 not only because of his relationship with El, but also he did not having something he loves in danger who he COULD do something to help. THAT is what brings out "leader Mike." And Mike will not let the people he loves -- Holly (maybe Nancy), Max, and WILL -- die.

So in s5... "Leader Mike" is back! And just like Jonathan needing Nancy to help get his brother back brought them closer, Mike will need Will to find his sister... <3 <3 <3

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#byler #st5 #st5 speculation #vanishing of #episode titles #stranger things #leader mike #mike wheeler #will byers

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teambyler · 4 days

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Stranger Things 5 speculation based on the episode titles and what we know from D&D

Vanishing of Holly Wheeler?

I already shared that I think Episode 2 is Holly Wheeler: "IF this information is accurate, I'm guessing the missing Wheeler is Holly. They have a new actress to play her. I think they're returning to s1 themes and the horror of a child being in danger is one thing they might get back to. The 1st episode would give them time to make her a character we care about. (And probably stabilize the situation at the end of s4.) It would also consume the entire Wheeler family into getting Holly back. Karen will be beside herself. Nancy will be tough and take charge. Will will have to unearth his memories of the Upside Down, and possibly use his connection, to help MIKE and NANCY get back their little sister. One possible road to BYLER is Will having to reexperience his trauma and possibly sacrifice himself to help his best friend."

Camazotz

I see a LOT of interest in episode 6 title "Escape from Camazotz"... I think for ANY speculation we HAVE to go to where our D&D nerds would go, which is the Dungeons & Dragons sourcebooks in the 80s. Camazotz was published in Deities & Demigods for Advanced Dungeons & Dragons (1980). It is the "bat god," so we're probably going to see it tied to the demobats.

We learn from Deities & Demigods that the Aztec and Mayan gods have "inscrutable motives"... which is ON BRAND for the Cthulhu inspirations of Stranger Things. These gods come from a "parallel universe." Clerics "are the elite of the populace," and are able to cast "commune or gate spells" to connect the planes together. ("Will the Wise" has been the cleric of the party... perhaps he is a cleric?)

Also, these gods "unusual nature makes it impossible for them to travel on any planes but the ones that they have worshipers on." Maybe Vecna needed to have a host on the "Right Side Up", to take form here, which is very consistent with the s2 and s3 plotlines.

The clerics perform human sacrifices... maybe another theme in s5??

But perhaps JUST as important, the adventure D&D module Hidden Shrine of Tomoachan (1980) involved an ancient temple dedicated to Camazotz. Odds are that our heroes will be trying to escape from a "temple" within the Upside Down. According to the Wikipedia article about this adventure, it is "full of tricks and traps".

As a "tournament module," meaning for competition purposes, and it was EXPECTED that heroes died in it because it was so deadly. The goal "is to get out of the ruins before time runs out." The lower levels (where the heroes begin) have a poisonous gas that slowly kill them. Also it is very unstable, spells will cause a collapse. If El were caught in it, it might be dangerous to use her powers.

This adventure debuted the gibbering mouther, a very distinct D&D monster that is VERY reminiscent of the s3 Flayer and would be VERY on-theme for Stranger Things:

The Sorcerer

Also, Episode 5 is titled "The Sorcerer." Sorcerer was not a class yet in D&D in the late 1980s. (The idea that Sorcerers have innate arcane power versus Wizards who study magic, was not invented yet until 2000.) Sorcerer was one of the many titles that Magic Users had (next to Wizard). Sorcerers had less power than Wizards. They were 9th level, while Wizards were 11th level:

It is already established that El is "the Wizard." Maybe there's another person with powers in season 5 which are less developed? If so, the most logical choice would be Will. It's confirmed that this season will focus on him. Although he's a "cleric" in their D&D game, maaaaybe he finds out he has new abilities. There was a reason Vecna didn't kill in season 1, and who has had "truesight" since.

That's what I can find for now! There's a lot of interesting traps and puzzles, with illustrations, from the adventure. But it's hard to predict what else (if anything) they might borrow from it! The aspect of escaping, and the poison gas and the timer, are probably what we can most rely on!

P.S. I mainly blog about Byler, but I thought my D&D knowledge would be useful for this one. If interested, follow and read my blog! I have so much to say!

#stranger things #D&D #st5 #st5 speculation #camazotz #escape from camazotz #sorcerer #vanishing of holly wheeler #byler

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teambyler · 4 days

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IF this is accurate, then I'm guessing that the 2nd episode is The Vanishing of Holly Wheeler. They have a new actress to play her.

I think they're returning to s1 themes and the horror of a child being in danger is one thing they might get back to. The 1st episode would give them time to make her a character we care about. (And probably stabilize the situation at the end of s4.)

It would also consume the entire Wheeler family into getting Holly back. Karen will be beside herself. Nancy will be tough and take charge. Will will have to unearth his memories of the Upside Down, and possibly use his connection, to help MIKE and NANCY get back their little sister. One possible road to BYLER is Will having to reexperience his trauma and possibly sacrifice himself to help his best friend.

GUYS IM SCREAMING WHICH WHEELERRRR GUYS IM SCAREDD AHHH

#byler #stranger things #st5 speculation #st5 #holly wheeler #new actress

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teambyler · 5 days

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Byler fans, don't watch if you don't want to sob

I KNOW that if Stranger Things 5 goes the angsty route with Byler, it will DESTROY me. Watch "the first same sex kiss in film," a clip from a 1927 movie WINGS where 2 men are best friends and Allied pilots in World War I. Jack is comforting his dying best friend Dave who he accidentally shot down. I couldn't help watching this scene without thinking what an angsty Mike/Will scene will do to me:

There are even echoes of Mike and Will's story. They are best friends. They were in a love triangle, while developing a deep bond for each other. Jack apologizes to Dave for lying "about the picture":

And:

I was thinking of what angsty Mike and Will scenes would be like and I know I will be a HOT MESS if the Duffers ever get this cruel to my heart. (Which I think they will! But probably not actually permanently kill off one of them cuz CMON Will have a happy ending!)

Here's the clip. (Context: They're both Allied pilots. Dave gets shot down by the Germans. He survives and steals a German plane. Jack, in grief over Dave, shoots down Dave's plane thinking he's another "Heinie" (German). Jack arrives and realizes he just shot down his best friend.)

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#byler #stranger things #wings #movie clip #the painting lie #old movie #first same sex kiss #first same sex kiss in film

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teambyler · 6 days

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Will's van speech is even more tragic when you think about it (EXPANDED)

Think about how obvious the painting was about Will's love, with a HEART on Mike's shield. Despite all the time and distance apart, Will made this very special painting to make clear to Mike that he loved him.

It was a BOLD move by Will. Whether it was in a best friend way or boyfriend way, it said HE LOVED HIM. Talk about courage coming from small-town 80s Indiana. He probably had much of his speech prepared using "I" and "me" in place of "El" and "she." (Maybe not the "I need you" part... but it was still all clear enough to communicate that, if Mike wanted something romantic, Will wanted it, too.)

I keep seeing people say Will cried in the van because he let out his feelings. But that isn't it.

Right before Will's speech, he tells Mike he wants to spend the rest of his life playing D&D and Nintendo with him. But Mike seems distracted, and is preoccupied with his relationship with El. Will reads this as complete disinterest in what he just said:

This confirms again for Will that Mike is straight and will never like him back. Then look at what Will says during his speech:

Will is talking about what he's doing right this moment. HE is ripping off the Band-Aid.

Will has just thrown away his ORIGINAL plan with the painting; he will NEVER give his painting the way he'd planned and declare his love for Mike. He HAD hope, but now it's gone.

Will is GIVING UP:

Will is doing what he thinks Mike needs, putting his and his sister El's happiness above of his own, no matter how much it hurts him. It's what pure, selfless love makes you do.

What will Mike think, when he finds out the truth?

P.S. Follow and read my blog! I have so much to say!

#byler #byler theory #will loves mike #painting #paintinggate #will byers #stranger things #st4

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teambyler · 6 days

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Stranger Things 5 will have a "Lord of the Rings" ending

Finn Wolfhard has read every script of Stranger Things season 5 except the last. When asked in a recent interview what he hoped for in the last episode, he said a "Lord of the Rings happy ending." So s5 will be epic like LOTR, but HOW?

#1 - What the General Audience thinks:

#2 - What Milevens think:

#3 - What Bylers think:

I'm for a mix of #1 and #3 myself =D

Some Milevens online said the LOTR reference somehow supports a Mileven endgame. I'm like DUDE Lord of the Rings is literally a Byler fanfic about two boys who love each other going into the Upside Down lol

P.S. Follow and read my blog! I have so much to say!

#byler #stranger things #st5 #st5 speculation #lord of the rings #finn wolfhard #interview

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teambyler · 8 days

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Mike HAS loved someone at first sight...

Mike didn't love the El "the moment" he saw her. But there IS someone he did...

It wasn't romantic love, as Mike and Will were too young. But it was more than just a playground friendship. Most kids make friends simply playing together and probably don't remember the day they met very well.

But Mike remembers it vividly, and so does Will. And the way Mike tells it in s2e8, he had feelings for Will when he saw him on the swings alone:

Mike loved Will when he saw him. He didn't want him to be lonely. Mike also felt alone. Perhaps he sensed they were different from the other boys somehow?

He could have just joined him on the swings or said they should play. Instead he asked if they could be friends. The way Mike tells it, it had the intensity of a proposal.

"And you said yes... you said yes..."

"It was the best thing I've ever done."

It took Mike longer to feel love for El. But for Will he loved him at first sight. And in more than a friends way, but in a BEST FRIENDS way, the way kids can and do love each other. The only thing different is that Mike and Will continued to feel that same intense bond they had as small children, when they were older in s2. And we now see it maturing into something else in s4 (and s5!)...

P.S. Follow and read my blog! I have so much to say!

#love at first sight #byler #byler evidence #byler theory #stranger things #st2 #mike wheeler #mike loves will

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teambyler · 9 days

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"Too late" for a Byler twist? Absolutely not:

"They've built up Mike + El for 4 seasons! You can't suddenly have Mike like Will in the last season!"

It doesn't take long to make the audience favor a ship, so long as the seeds have been planted, and the seeds HAVE been planted for Mike and Will, especially in s4.

Let's look at another example in the same show. In s2, Steve left Nancy drunk at the party. Yes he had a reason to be upset, but it was very dangerous to leave your girlfriend like that. It was Jonathan who took her home. And in her drunken state she expressed feelings for him. He could have taken advantage of the situation but knew not to do so:

Viewers then knew that Jonathan was better for Nancy. THAT ONE SCENE WAS ALL IT TOOK. And it was the 2nd episode of the season!

The groundwork just has to be laid first. And there is MORE groundwork for the "surprise" in Byler's case. Season 4 was chockful of evidence that Mike and Will have growing feelings for each other. And the triggering event has already been prepared: Mike finding out about the painting.

And El isn't speaking to Mike at the end of s4. Contrast this to where Steve and Nancy were at the end of s1:

The only thing preventing some viewers from seeing the possibility of Byler is heteronormativity, our cultural tendency to assume characters are straight unless shown otherwise. (Which also affected me as a gay guy before I saw Byler breakdowns online.) I'm confident that the "surprise" for many viewers will be overtaken by the desire so many people have for Will to have a happy ending.

There only needs to be ONE SCENE.

P.S. Follow and read my blog! I have so much to say!

#byler #byler theory #byler evidence #stranger things #st5 #st5 speculation

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teambyler · 9 days

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Everything after Mike's monologue shows that El has moved on from Mike

After the climactic events of season 4 including Mike's monologue, we have ZERO scenes between El and Mike talking about what happened. And we're never explicitly shown what she's thinking: we have to pick it up through clues.

Here are ALL the significant things El does afterward that give us any clue of what she thinks about their relationship.

Mike tells El to "wake up," and then El says (while looking at Max) "No... You're not going... No." The first "no" can also be a direct response to Mike. She is choosing not to go back to Mike and to help Max:

Of course, she wants to save Max's life. But her "no" becomes more significant when we see her thoughts while saving Max. She remembers her s3 friendship with Max, where she found herself happier dumping Mike and becoming independent. Max told her about ANOTHER female superhero Wonder Woman, said "Not Hopper, not Mike, YOU... There's more to life than stupid boys... Against the rules? We make our own rules":

We then time jump to 2 days later. Mike and El are sitting next to each other in the van, but they don't interact.

When they visit Max at the hospital, El puts her head on Mike's shoulder and he puts his arm around her. This is the ONLY expression of closeness we see between them after the monologue. Even here, both of El's arms hang at her sides:

But in this and later scenes we see Mike having more interactions with Will than with El. When Lucas says the doctors thought it was a "miracle" Max came back to life, Will and Mike have the same thought -- that El saved her -- but they look immediately at each other first instead of El. El, meanwhile, hadn't shared that Max almost died (and what she had done to save her) with Mike. She doesn't look at him. (Thanks to @romainlettusdinnerparty for pointing this out)

While cleaning Hopper's cabin, El tellingly closes the door after entering her old room, immediately after glancing at Mike and Will together. (There is no reason to close a door when you're cleaning a musty old house!) We find out that she has barely been talking to Mike:

Finally, the last scene. The three of them walk out onto the field side by side. Mike and Will stop at the same time. El walks forward ahead of the other two. Mike doesn't follow his girlfriend and stays by Will:

Since this is the very last scene and there's no dialogue, it's fair to say that what we're seeing visually will foreshadow events in the next season. She is walking ahead into the rotting part of the field (the Upside Down?). And she is moving away from Mike, and Mike is choosing to stay with Will. Mike and Will aren't holding hands, but they're BREATHING IN SYNC.

To drive things home, she sees the EXACT same kind of flowers that Mike picked for El and gave her at the airport, the yellow and purple flowers:

... But now they're wilted... a very on-your-nose symbol of their relationship. She holds on to the wilted flower while looking at the devastation in Hawkins. This reflects and foreshadows her personal journey:

The only other reading of these final images is that she will defend what is good -- Hawkins -- from Vecna. But the chosen symbol is too associated with Mike's bouquet. It can't be her protecting their relationship from Vecna. It has never been threatened by external threats. (In fact, facing shared danger from the "bad men," etc. brought them together.) Their relationship has corroded from within.

The absence of ANY scene between Mike and El post-monologue is startling. We get MANY scenes in the epilogue where we see how the main characters now relate to each other. El and Will hug Dustin, we see that Robin and Vickie might enter a relationship, heck we even see how Mike and Hopper regard each other. But for Mileven, where THE arc this season has been "Will Mike say he loves El?" we get no resolution!

Instead, we get implications and symbols. And everything makes clear that Mike and Will have grown closer, while Mike and El have grown more distant.

This, AFTER Mike said what El told her he needed to say for their relationship to work out! If anything, it made El MORE distant. As if El realized that isn't what she wants after all... unlike early in s4, El is now hardly relating to Mike whatsoever.

Mileven is a sinking ship. But that doesn't mean Mike and El must end up unhappy.

P.S. Follow and read my blog! I have so much to say.

#byler #byler theory #byler evidence #stranger things #st4 #eleven #jane hopper #elmax #monologue #anti mileven

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teambyler · 11 days

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Proof that El will encourage Mike to be with Will in s5

The fruity pizza was completely unnecessary for s4, EXCEPT to be an in-your-face metaphor for homosexuality. Mike even called it "blasphemous."

And EL made Mike try "fruit on pizza."

Foreshadowing much? Looks like El will help bring Mike and Will together. It'll be a step in her journey of independence.

CASE CLOSED.

#byler #byler proof #byler theory #fruit on pizza #stranger things #st5 #st5 speculation

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teambyler · 12 days

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Taking El's side at Rink-O-Mania

I don’t think most Mileven fans are homophobic. I DO think most want the best for El. But to THAT I say let’s talk about what El needs in a partner. Yes Mike is learning and I’m glad he could say I Love You, but what kind of love are we talking here?

Dude I don’t care how many bullies are surrounding El: you go in there and disrupt the bullies' stupid roller skating circle, you've faced much worse for chrissakes (and I’m mad at Will for not doing this too btw). And I’m on Team Hit Angela. (My only caveat is to try to avoid permanent damage and minimize danger to yourself. Teach her a lesson so other people aren't bullied.) Mike and Will’s concern should’ve been for El's emotional well-being, not that “what did you do” BS.

“I love you on your good days and your bad days” is about more than saying words. Actions speak louder.

I take El's side here unequivocally, and I'm not even her boyfriend!

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#team hit angela #el deserves better #stranger things #byler #anti mileven #eleven #el #jane hopper

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teambyler · 13 days

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s4's choice of "California Dreamin" and what it says about El, Mike, and Byler

Season 4 opens with "California Dreamin," specifically a 1986 Beach Boys cover of the classic 60s Mamas and the Papas song. It plays over El's letter telling Mike how "great" things are in California, when we all know it's not true.

The song sounds at first bright and sunny, but it's actually a pretty dark song, musically and lyrically. The singer is in a cold winter ("All the leaves are brown, and the sky is grey") They go into a church and "pretend to pray" to find shelter from the cold. Which is very fitting for El, who is pretending to be someone she's not and painting a false picture for Mike:

Stopped into a church I passed along the way Well, I got down on my knees And I pretend to pray

El is finding only temporary warmth in a church, which also is appropriate because it is traditional: she is trying to convince herself that she has an ideal happy life with many friends and a traditional relationship with a loving boyfriend.

The song is just as much about Mike as it is about El: he is also "California Dreamin" because he's looking forward to being in California to be with El (and Will!).

The Beach Boys' cover doesn't have all the original lyrics. The original song has another lyric that is interesting for El and Byler. (The Beach Boys' cover was probably chosen because it came out in 1986.)

Here it is:

All the leaves are brown And the sky is gray I've been for a walk On a winter's day If I didn't tell her I could leave today California dreamin' On such a winter's day

The singer wants to be in warm and sunny California, but is held back because they promised something to a girl.

Does this idea of being held back from happiness due to a sense of obligation to a girl sound familiar, Byler Nation?

And the song plays while Mike is reading El's letter:

In both El's case and Mike's case, the song talks about "California Dreamin" but it's actually quite unsettling and dark. They are NOT in a warm and sunny place. They're finding reprieve sneaking into a church and "pretending to pray." Mike would go somewhere warmer, where he doesn't have to hide in a church to be warm. If he didn't make a promise to a girl, he "could leave today."

Haven't seen this elsewhere so I wanted to share...

P.S. Follow and read my blog! I have so much to say!

#byler #byler theory #byler evidence #california dreamin #st4 #stranger things

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teambyler · 14 days

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Mike will need to pray to the hetero gods to resist Will in s5

I said I thought Will should wield a gun this season. Looks like he's got GUNS instead!

Can the fashion team succeed at hiding his muscles again in s5? I don't think so! lol

#will byers #mike wheeler #stranger things #byler #st5

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teambyler · 15 days

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Mike and Will both love singing cheesy 80s songs

El didn't like it. But you know who WILL sing with you, Mike Wheeler?

THEY'RE SOULMATES.

And neither of them would stop the other. They'd think it was CUTE!

Who's up for Mike singing to Will with that guitar of his? Or a Mike and Will duet in s5? They can be "cheesy together." ;)

They like all the same things: comics, Nintendo, D&D, and singing their hearts out! Mike and Will can be THEMSELVES with each other!

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#cheesy together #byler #crazy together #stranger things #will byers #mike wheeler #byler proof #byler theory #singing #soulmates

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