#people act like they’re being harassed just block me if it bothers you someone has opinions on things ugh
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Since I’ve seen a fair bit of discourse around this in the past few years, let me just put this out there in no uncertain terms: if someone shipping something turns you off from that ship, that’s a you problem and in no way the other person’s responsibility.
Now, I’m not talking about someone being so obsessed with their ship that they start being a dick to you or others who ship different ships, because they believe that their ship is the only real or true one.
I’m not talking about when a large portion of the fandom ships something and that same sub-fandom of shippers are largely assholes of some variety, whether or not it actually has to do with their ship.
While I personally don’t get the idea that such a thing could make you no longer like something you loved, that is still valid and you are never required to keep liking or loving a ship for any reason, so long as you respect that others do.
What I am talking about specifically in this post is someone shipping their favorite ship completely harmlessly — by which I mean, never harassing anyone, never intentionally making it anyone else’s problem, never telling anyone else what to ship or not ship or anything else obnoxious like that — but doing so to the point where it is all they seem to post/reblog/like, etc.
If such a person being extremely active in their shipping bothers you to the point where you lose interest in the ship when you previously enjoyed it, then the problem is not them. It is you.
“But it’s unhealthy to make shipping your whole life!!!”
To that, I have three things to say.
First of all, no matter how many posts you’ve read on their blog(s), you do not know what their actual real life is like or what goes on in their head; it could very well be that you’re only seeing a small portion of their actual interests because that is simply the only thing they’re interested in sharing about themselves online. They may even have other accounts they don’t advertise that surround other things.
But secondly, even if you somehow did know for certain that this was their entire life and all they did…so what? No matter how ‘unhealthy’ you may think it is, what other people do with their lives and center their lives around is not your business or within your right to try to control — not unless they’re harming others directly by doing it. (And no, you being offended by their shipping does not count. You have the option to block them, or simply ignore their posts and keep scrolling.)
Which brings me to my third point…they’re not harming anyone in what they’re doing. As a matter of fact, by sitting there all day on their own personal account posting about things they love in their own spaces, not bothering nor being deterred by anyone else, they’re actually already being a far better member of the fandom than a great deal of the people who don’t only post about one thing — including you.
Unlike you, they’re spending their days enjoying things and focusing on that which they love, while ignoring the outside noise and the critics and the haters and anyone else whose posts might otherwise be offending them or deterring them from shipping their favorite ship.
Unlike you, they’re minding their own business and not trying to control other people’s shipping habits.
Unlike you, they probably know how the block button works, or at least how to look away from things they don’t like.
If you don’t want to ship something because of someone like them, then don’t ship it. But also, don’t act like it’s their fault or their problem for minding their own business, doing their own thing, in their own spaces.
You made the decision not to ship something anymore. That’s all it is.
#linklethehistorian#my thoughts#thoughts#non fandom#nonfandom#fandom#I’m tired of the “oh this person was such a rabid fan that they killed my interest in the ship”#first of all “rabid fan” nowadays has the connotation that someone is being actively harmful and intentionally rude to others#a person who is minding their own business but being enthusiastic about their ship is not a “rabid fan”#and most importantly no that person did not kill your interest in the ship#you did#you looked at that person and decided “this turns me off from that ship” and proceeded not to like it anymore#that is a valid decision as no one needs a reason to stop being interested in something#but it is not someone else’s fault for being more enthusiastic than you’d like#the world doesn’t revolve around you and your preferences
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Relating to the drama post I made a few days back but uh…
Somehow the flames got reignited and now my ex moot and a friend of hers are being really stupid by showing how aggressive they are on insta’s stories despite the ex moot saying that *she’s a victim* and “im not a bully i just want peace 🥺”
I have them both blocked thankfully but the way they’re going at all of this (that I only talked about like once this year and I have not once name dropped anyone) is god awful like they’re even dragging my close moots into it and calling us all pieces of shit.
For someone who wants peace, her calling me a piece of shit while her friend shares memes that depict some… lowkey aggressive stuff that very obviously is directed towards me is so telling of their true character.
I mainly got most of the info from some people who I deeply cherish who also happen to have been wronged so badly by these people and it sucks that they don’t seem to see that what they’re doing is bad? They constantly attack anyone and I mean ANYONE who has a different opinion on anything. I feel bad for my friends who most definitely had it way worse than me.
We’re all adults at this point and I swear the two of them are acting like immature kids with how they act online. Grow up man this is tiring.
I’m not sure if either of them has tumblr so they wouldn’t be able to see this. But unless SOMEHOW they did and if they are reading this right now, you guys are just downright awful people not only to me but to my friends.
Hell I don’t even feel bad about myself I’m just angry with the way you harassed my friends especially. From harassing them about the ships they like to just outright bothering them in their dms, idk how you guys are in higher education.
I’ve had you two blocked for a reason and yet you, the ex-moot, decided to use alt accounts to stalk my insta and Twitter and you dare message me saying that I should stop talking about you and that you’ve never once talked about me, which is a clear lie because I know you do. And you say you want peace sadly that doesn’t seem to be the case? You just don’t want me talking about this because it’ll ruin your reputation when you’re already doing it yourself.
Let me be clear. I’ve only talked about the drama since it happened only once. This year. And I have explicitly made sure to not drop in any names so no one who knew what happened in real time would know who these people are. And I apologise for calling you a certain b word but I’m sure you can handle it since you called me and my friends evil pieces of shit in your stories. Who knows what else you’ve been calling us in private.
And what’s so sad is that you guys say that we’re the bullies, the ones in the wrong for bringing up a situation from last year, when so far neither me or any of my friends have ever really fully exposed you or used our audience in public about what any of you have done (but we know. Oh we know) and yet here you are, practically digging your own graves by playing the victim card.
Grow up. I thought one of you was supposed to be the mature one here.
#call out post#personal vent#idk what to tag this as but uhhhhh#drama#???#idk if I wanna tag WMMAP since we were all in the WMMAP fandom#it’d be hilarious if they do have a tumblr and saw this tho.#while I don’t plan on taking this onto insta or Twitter for now because of my friends’ sakes#I think I have the right to at least say some things here on this app#…#Myra smith#since in a way all this started because they hate the fact that she has more than one husband 😭
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Team Real will genuinely never make sense to me.
In the broader scheme of things, they technically “won” bragging rights because according to publications and the words coming from Chris’s own mouth (he didn’t mention the skank directly but 🖐🏾😒🤚🏾) CE & AB are “married”. So why do these grown adults worry so much about if other grown adults have different opinions than them? Are they scared that any day now something’s going to pop up and expose this whole situation for being fake? Are they scared they won’t have traction if they don’t continue being the opposing “side” and cause strife and chaos here between blogs? Are they scared that they’ll have to come to terms with being used as pawns in a game that should’ve never been invented in the first place and they’ll have to face the reality of how terrible they looked and acted?
If you’re so secure in your position that a celebrity relationship is so real despite you not even being 1/2 of it, then stick to your shit and move on with your life. You got what you wanted. Why are you still wallowing and crying about other blogs? I understand that some blog’s have anons who go to other blogs and cause drama in hearsay, but practice what you preach and block the opinions and asks that you don’t like. It’s as simple as that. No one deserves death threats and harassment over their own perspective, but if you don’t like something being said remove the problem. Especially if it’s your blog. Curate your experience for yourself and surround yourself with people who share the same ideas you. I mean their favorite Nazi Pornstar surrounds herself with racists and antisemites so obviously she curates her experiences to what she wants around her since she hasn’t kicked their asses to the curb. Take a lesson from your new fav. You know the same one whose ass you were just dragging this time a year ago.
Their first excuse anytime someone disagrees to their opinions is, he won’t fuck you. Sure, he won’t. Since he doesn’t know us. And I wouldn’t wanna fuck him either after how he’s been acting the past two years. But he won’t fuck you either just cause you’re now kissing his aging Casper ass and she probably wouldn’t piss on you if you were on fire just cause you’re choosing to now support her dirty ass too.
I will just never understand how women in their late 20s to apparently Chris’s age (and this is not me just bringing up age to bring it up, this is me pointing out the antics of overgrown ass women and adults) forgot that everyone is different, and not everyone is going to think like you do. I think they’re just bothered because a lot of anons or peeps they used to interact with are in a state of whiplash by how quick they flip flopped like fish (😏) with going from dragging to now just absolutely adoring Dumbass and Megamind over here so they’re getting called out for being fake. Which in a sense is what they deserve. You can’t sit here and be in outrage over her racism associations and co, but then within the same year start loving her and forgetting all of the shit she did and then forget your own actions in the process like it never happened and then have the audacity to get pissy when people are calling you out for it. It don’t work both ways. You chose your lane and stay in it. Don’t be mad because your lane looks to be going into oncoming traffic.
No let’s bring up age. These women are apparently in their late 20s to early/late 40s and act this way? Sweetie pies…. Did you have a mental stunt growth? Truly unbelievable how they dedicate their lives to “Team PR”
I didn’t agree with the team deal before, but why does it matter what people think? If a man treats you the way CE has treated Alba then get out of that relationship. There’s no love.
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You ever see a dumbass complaint about a game that you like? Example, i literally saw someone complaining about one of my favs having TOO much content. Like, "Yep, this game that's like $10 and has hours and hours of unlimited content and fun quest with FREE DLC stuff up for grabs is just...too much. Jeeves, send it away immediately. This greatly displeased me and im going yo complain about it to those who, obviously, find enjoyment from this. Don't they know that we should be paying MORE for LESS content."
Obviously, i know not everyone is going to like what i like. That's not the problem. The problem is when you actively TAG IT and get upset whenever you find ppl disagreeing with you while you act all hurt. Shut up, not everyone wants to hear that
Totally get what you mean. I played and adored Days Gone recently, and when scouring the tags, a bunch of posts came up from one person who was just live-blogging how much they hated it, and their reasoning was almost always not just like bad taste, but genuinely wrong about the content itself. Like totally missing the point etc. Very irritating. Genuinely though, I disagree with your second statement. It’s annoying to read opinions you don’t like, especially when they don’t even hate your faves for their actual flaws even, like c’mon folks. But, even then, people are allowed to publicly enjoy media and consume it however they want. Including critically or disliking it. If they’re like, posting in “X Positivity” tags or something explicitly for the media, that’s insane, but if they’re just tagging like, Rise of Skywalker the film while talking about how much they hated Rise of Skywalker and why, that’s their business, and fandom isn’t only for people who want to enjoy and worship media. Yea, it’s super annoying when we disagree, but they have a right to their opinion, and people fighting with them or hating on them for saying how they felt, if they weren’t invading positivity-specific spaces and just posting in the media or character tag their thoughts, which happened to include criticism or be negative, that’s fine. We don’t have to like everything, and people bothering them for not being positive all the time (assuming they’re not soliciting debate) are the ones being rude, and trying to force someone to agree with them or not publicly exist.
It’s annoying, and it’s sucks, full hundo, but the correct response is to leave people alone and block them if you don’t want to see their takes. That person hating on my fave game while playing the whole like 60 hours, god knows why they kept going??? And I think their taste sucks and they’re stupid. I don’t have to respect their shit taste.But they have a right to have that shit taste, and have it publicly. If I’d sent them hate instead of blocking, I’d have become the asshole. So, I sympathize full hundo, especially when the complaint isn’t just out of proportion, it ain’t even valid, but I very much don’t agree w the last sentiment. They can act all hurt if people come send them harassment for posting opinions that were disagreed with under the name of a piece of media. It ain’t a fan club in the Back to the Future tag. That’s a neutral space. Yeah it’s annoying to see hate when you like the thing, but bothering someone over their difference of opinion is fucked up. People can post negatively if they want. People don’t have to like everything all the time. Actually, it’s kind of annoying when people are only ever totally positive about everything, and treat even neutral criticism like “loved the game but X was a problem” as if it’s a personal attack and heinous act, and I see that more and more common behavior as much bigger issue for fandom spaces than negative takes in the tags. If someone talks about not liking KH3 and tags it KH3 and a bunch of strangers send them harassment over their daring to show dislike in a public space, they have every right to be hurt about that. They’re being bullied, and worse, by people who assume they have a pass and the moral high ground somehow in order to affect a stranger’s personal life in a personal, direct, one-on-one way, over their disliking a piece of media or character. That’s messed up.
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I keep seeing this whole debate about people ruining fanon and stuff by criticizing it or whatever and while I get that sentiment in some respects, it kind of comes off to the degrees it’s gone to as “don’t ever criticize my portrayal of a character even on your own blog because it ruins fandom” as if people having debates/conversations about what is ooc and what isn’t is a bad thing that shouldn’t happen bc it might… idk. Ruin creativity?? Like I’m all for people having a lot of freedom in fiction and I don’t like when people try to control in large part what other people can write and draw but we can still??? Discuss?? These things??? And talk about them?? Like you have to make statements and put out ideas when you discuss how a character is written and sometimes that’s going to contradict other people and sometimes that might turn into a debate even and that’s a good thing?? Idk.
I think I’m just tired of it being turned into stuff like “oh well you’re telling me I can’t do this” NO, i’m telling you it seems OOC imo and you can ignore me and do what you want, I don’t care.
#this isn’t about any specific people#but it is lowkey in light of recent discourse I was in#and I still see posts come up that seem to be referring to it vaguely and kind of immaculately and ugh it’s annoying#*inaccurately#like idk man i don’t care what you write I leave people alone unless it’s a meta post bc those are pretty fair game#and even then I tend to stick to my own blog#and yet i still see people like ‘well why do you care? why do you have to have an opinion on this? why can’t people do what they want’#like bro THEY CAN I JUST WANNA TALK ABOUT FANDOM TROPES I THINK ARE INACCURATE#bc like!! whether I’m right or wrong in your opinion#I’d like to see them change and I have arguments as to why I think they should! but if someone disagrees or doesn’t want to listen THEY CAN#people act like they’re being harassed just block me if it bothers you someone has opinions on things ugh#me talking#kind of a vent ig but like idk! I gen feel like the whole ‘never talk about a fiction thing you don’t like bc it’s bad for creativity’ is#in itself bad for creativity and general critical thinking#south park fandom#discourse#<<<not really but I know some people don’t like this type of stuff at all so
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hiii can i request tsumu, kenma, oikawa, and kuroo where they’re in a secret relationship and the reader feels like they’re hiding her bc they’re ashamed of her ? like a hurt too comfort type of thing? thank u bb 🥺🥺
- 🍒
secret relationships w/ atsumu, kenma, oikawa, and kuroo
a/n: i have so many angst requests,, yall must like getting hurt 💀 also this wasn’t as angsty as i thought it was gonna be since im going through writers block yet again and i can not handle pain rn (also not proofread, so read with caution lmao)
— m. atsumu
it honestly surprised you at first, the way someone like miya atsumu returning your feelings the moment you told him you liked him near the start of the school year
there wasn’t that instant gratification though, knowing that one of inarizaki’s golden boys still felt out of your reach
despite being in a relationship with you, it wasn’t like anyone knew of it besides osamu and your closest friend
of course you didn’t really mind as you’ve always thought couples who were obnoxious with their relationships 24/7 and constantly making out in the hallways wasn’t your cup of tea either, so you get why atsumu wanted to keep it a secret
besides, with a guy so popular like him, you really just thought he was sparing you from the harassment (not that it would be bad if all the girls crushing on him new)
you get that he was just trying to protect you, and yet the more you thought of it, the more than it was simply just an assumption and you really didn’t know why your relationship was kept secret
it wasn’t like either of you would get backlash in any way, so what was the problem?
you weren’t exactly the type to be the most insecure either
sure, you were aware of the flaws you had, but it wasn’t something you were ashamed of as you learned to get used to it
yet it’s hard to fully love yourself when your boyfriend isn’t even comfortable with the fact that no one knows you two are even together
you hated jumping to conclusions, but you couldn’t help but to think the worst case scenario—was he ashamed of being with you?
you honestly thought the idea was impossible
if he was seriously ashamed of the thought of being with you in public, why would he even waste all those months dating? were all those dates and nights sneaking out to see each other for nothing?
it was like this for weeks with the way your own thoughts sabotaged you as you stood next to him during lunch
in moments like this in school, surrounded by your classmates and acquaintances, you and atsumu were only friends who sat next to each other occasionally and shared conversations that only friends would have
only friends
god, you hated the way that atsumu wouldn’t even look at you the way that he would when you two are alone
was he that embarrassed to be with you?
you didn’t want six months of all your hard work and effort of making time to be with him for nothing,, you had to do something about it
everyday, you, atsumu, and osamu would walk to school together with osamu typically walking ahead of you and your boyfriend
most couples would hold hands as they walked together, but atsumu had made it explicitly clear as the closer they get to school the farther they had to be from each other to avoid suspicions
thinking of it now, it sounded wrong to begin with and you had no idea why you even agreed to do such a thing
the school was close, maybe a block away and instead of slowing down your pace to create a gap between you and atsumu, you stubbornly stayed next to him to which he flickered you a weird look
he shrugged it off but the moment you two passed the gates and into campus, you slipped your hand into his
without missing a single beat atsumu immediately pulled his hand away from you with a look on his face that held all the questions running through his head at that very moment
“what are you doing?” he asks, almost in a harsh whisper
a frown melted upon your expression at how quickly he pulled away, almost as if he was disgusted by you. “i um, didn’t know you hated the thought of people seeing us together so badly.”
you didn’t know where all your strength went as it disappeared the moment you needed it the most
yet as you were about to walk away, atsumu tugs at your wrist lightly and pulls you into his embrace—his warmth and comforting scent of chamomile from saved you from the embarrassment that was tainting your cheeks red
“no, no it’s not that,” he mutters, lips tickling your forehead. “i just wanted to keep you to myself a bit longer.”
— k. kenma
you honestly weren’t surprised at the fact that kenma wanted this relationship to be kept secret
he never seemed like the type to be in a relationship let alone get the attention of being in one in the first place, yet it irked you to the core
it was fine at first; acting like you two were just friends while at school or at volleyball practice and it wasn’t at all weird or out of the ordinary
maybe that’s why you were okay with it in the first few months of your relationship with kenma as you were always near him the majority of the time
yet you constantly had to fight the urge to not be so touchy with him from wanting to hold his hand to leaning your head onto his shoulder—you often had to stop yourself especially in front of your friends and his teammates
you were good at keep secrets, but it was absolute hell not being able to even tell kuroo considering you always hung out with him too (it was a given obviously but you digress)
kuroo is a bit curious in his closest friend’s antics so his constant teases of how you and kenma would be such a cute couple annoyed you to your core
he laughs as if you and kenma being together would be absolutely impossible and wouldn’t happen in a million years, and yet here you two were, pretending to laugh at his jokes and agreeing and it would be, in fact, impossible
as mentioned before, you’re more annoyed at keeping your relationship secret rather than angry
your actions were more abrupt and cold rather than your usual warm self and kenma definitely noticed
despite his usual calm and collected expression that he has on a daily basis, it covered up his own emotions of blatant insecurity and worry that you were losing your feelings and losing them quick
the last thing kenma wanted was for everything that happened between the two of you to be wasted over his own fear of being judged for being with you
you were his first in everything and he certainly wasn’t going to let you become his first heartbreak either
he worried about this for a few days, overthinking while he played video games with kuroo, lev, and yaku that they noticed how quiet he was being over the call
it was then did he impulsively asked kuroo to go on a separate voice channel with him just so he could blurt out, “i’m dating (y/n).”
and to his surprise, all his best friend said was: “yeah, i know. (y/n) told me.”
“what? why?” kenma asked with confusion evident on his visage
“she had no one else to go to vent.” kuroo answers, his amused laugh echoing through kenma’s headphones. “don’t worry, i won’t tell anyone.”
“thanks, but... i think (y/n)’s angry at me and i don’t know what to do.”
“she told me that she was getting tired of keeping your relationship a secret. she asked me if you felt embarrassed or even ashamed of being with her.” he explained.
confusion and a bit of worry washed over kenma as his words suddenly faltered, “i could never be ashamed of being with her,”
“then i guess, you should tell her that.”
“what should i do?”
his best friend lets on a smirk (not that kenma could even see it, anyway), “i’m so glad you asked.”
you weren’t exactly sure what you expecting to be honest
you knew there was something going on between kenma and kuroo as if they were planning something intricate, but you weren’t bothered to even ask
perhaps you were still in that petty mindset of giving kenma the cold shoulder after having to keep your relationship on hold all the time that stopped your curiosity
sure, it was a bit childish, but you were planning on talking about it with kenma the moment he came back into the classroom after going off somewhere with kuroo
which by the way, where the hell were they? lunch was ending soon and you needed to talk to you boyfriend asap
the timing was almost perfect the way the thought of him entered your mind was at the same time as his familiar blonde hair walked back into the classroom with a melon bun and a canned drink in his hand from the vending machine—your favorites
“i noticed you didn’t eat lunch, so i bought you this.” he says, placing them down onto your desk.
“is this supposed to be your way of apologizing to me or something?” you mused at him.
there was a faint smile on kenma’s face when you did. this was your usual self, one that constantly smiled at him rather than deadpanned and cold. “no,” he simple put it. taking in a breath of confidence before pressing his lips on the corner of yours. “but i was hoping that would.”
with wide eyes, your eyes scanned the room to see if anyone noticed, afraid at the fact that you broke the first rule. despite being a blushing mess from a minuscule peck on your cheek, there was an inkling of confusion still evident within you, “why did you do that?”
“kuroo told me everything.”
“i knew that guy couldn’t keep a secret,” you mutter as you tried to ignore that infamous feeling of butterflies in the pit of your stomach. “i don’t think people saw, so they won’t think we’re together—”
“what if i wanted people to know we’re together?” ded asf
— o. tooru
you honestly should’ve known oikawa was going to keep this relationship between the two of you a secret since the moment he confessed his feelings to you
what else could you have expected from aoba johsai’s most popular boy wonder with an actual fanclub full of naive girls
perhaps you’ve become naive yourself considering you dealt with months of having your relationship constantly being swept under the rug, psyching yourself out that he was doing this for your sake
and you understood that
it was the reason why you even agreed to keep your relationship on the downlow considering how annoyingly notorious oikawa’s fangirls were, they wouldn’t have let you see the light of day if they were to find out
if you were in fact being honest, there was a period in time near the beginning of the relationship how cautious you were being—barely talking to oikawa unless it had to do with school, avoiding his gazes during class, and even swallowing your pride by just watching his fangirls flirt with him and there was nothing you could do about it
you honestly had to give yourself a pat on the bat for dealing with six months of this treatment
you figured it wouldn’t be that bad, especially after schools where you and oikawa could finally have alone time to yourselves, but even those times alone with him there was a lingering feeling of tension and unease
the thought of someone from school even finding out of you two being together even affected your relationship outside of school hours
you were tired of waiting outside the school gates for hours just for him to come out of volleyball practice and apologize that he couldn’t walk you home yet again
you figured that oikawa had grown far to used to seeing you waiting for him all the time that it was practically common sense that he was going to reject you again and again
you had to stop waiting for him at some point, but there was an inkling inside that for once, just for once, he would look at you with a smile so sweet that he would finally go with you
but not once has it happened
was he really that afraid of people finding out of his relationship with you that he’s willing to disregard all your hard work to even make this thing (whatever is was) to even happen?
if you were truly being honest with yourself, the only reason why this relationship is still up and active for this long is all because of you
you’re the one always asking him when he’s available during the weekends so you two could finally see each other, you’re the one always texting him first, you’re the one always being the most understanding of the situation
and yet it’s almost like oikawa isn’t even batting an eye at how difficult it has been for you
you absolutely hated jumping to conclusions and thinking of the worst case scenario and yet here you were, suddenly drowning at the possibility that the only reason why oikawa wanted a secret relationship was because he was ashamed to be with you
it was a thought that kept you up at night, tainting your optimistic thoughts of hope that this relationship would actually work out to decimate into thin air
the more is simmered in your head, the worse it became—what if his feelings that he confessed to you was a lie?
you hated overthinking
but if you really thought about it, even before you and oikawa dated, neither of you two were close. just two acquaintances in the same class that occasionally shared answers with each other just by the convenience of sitting nearby
you even went as far as believing that him dating you was just a joke, that this whole goddamn relationship was just some mindless prank just because he was bored
six months of wasted time. you were over it
the next day at school, you didn’t even look at him, you didn’t smile or even acknowledge the way he said good morning to you (as a friend does)
you figured he’s probably too dense to even notice, but he did. the usual glow you had each morning when you said good morning back to him was gone
he already missed the way your gazes would meet and how he would constantly find himself lost in your irises, but now you couldn’t even look at him in the eye
the only person who’s aware that you and oikawa were dating was iwaizumi. it was a given as who else would oikawa ramble on and on and on about how pretty you looked or how smart you are if it wasn’t his best friend?
if anything, iwa was the only guy oikawa could complain about how you were ignoring him
“maybe she’s bored of you for once,” iwaizumi cuts straight to the point. there was really no point in beating around the bush
offense was written all over oikawa’s face, utterly surprised, “how could she?”
“you can’t keep your relationship with her a secret forever, you know.” his best friend goes on to explain, “with the way things are going with you two acting like you’re nothing but acquaintances, (y/n)’s bound to lose her feelings.”
“but i don’t want her to lose feelings for me! and it’s not like i can suddenly tell all my fangirls that i’m dating someone, they’ll freak!” whines oikawa.
“why do you care about your fangirls’ feelings more than your own girlfriend? seems to me, it doesn’t even look like you care about (y/n) at all the way she’s constantly waiting for you after practice only to be rejected.”
it’s obvious iwaizumi wasn’t here to sugarcoat
“i just don’t want them to harass (y/n)...” oikawa reasons, trying to ignore the way his heart drop at iwa’s words like a gripping poison
“then that’s your job to tell those girls to back off.” he suggests, “they literally treat you like a god, surely they’ll listen if you tell them to leave her alone.”
the following day, you came across oikawa waiting outside your door, dressed in his uniform with his gaze lingering about to occupying his attention
“what are you doing here?” you ask him as you close your front door behind you. he’s probably here to break up with you, you thought to yourself
you had to force yourself to ignore the way your heart dropped at your own self-destructive thoughts
taking a deep breath as you approached him, you readied yourself for harsh news to come your way
but it never did
instead, you were greeted by oikawa’s infamous smile that made everyone at school to fall in love with this guy (including you)
he takes your hand into his, intertwining his calloused fingers that dwarfed yours in size. you don’t remember the last time you held oikawa’s hand, but it felt so familiar and warm
it was like home
you couldn’t help but feeling the ends of your lips tugging into a smile as you looked up at him, “what if someone at school sees us?”
you were expecting some kind of excuse, but all he did was shrug. “who cares?”
— k. tetsurou
when you and kuroo started going out, you certainly wasn’t expecting it to be like this
if anything, ‘going out’ would be a stretch if you count late night dates and sneaking out at midnight just to see each other as dating
it certainly wasn’t your usual definition of dating either as you yearned greatly to be able to do normal couple things with your boyfriend—like actually going out on dates during the day, eating lunch together, hell, even just holding hands!
it almost seemed laughable how normal things done in relationships were something you never even experienced with kuroo even after a few months of being together all due to him wanting to keep the relationship a secret
and if you were truly being honest with yourself, you never really understood why he wanted to keep it on the downlow in the first place
you never really questioned it as you just that much of an understanding person, but at a certain point it just wasn’t adding up
it wasn’t like he had girls going after him 24/7 despite being at the top of his class, popular, and nekoma’s volleyball captain
it wasn’t like oikawa who had an actual problem with hoards of girls surrounding him and tracking his ever move, so what was the big deal of letting your relationship public?
it was then did it hit you
the suddenly downpour of insecurity within your own loving boyfriend that you trust so much was getting the best of you
“what if he’s embarrassed to even be with me?” you contemplated in a harsh whisper to your best friend
it was in the middle of lunch and you two were sitting alone on a bench in the school’s courtyard chatting while eating—well, more like overthinking in your case while you friend just sat there and nodded
“if he actually felt that way, then he would’ve broken up with you already.” your friend stated in between bites, “besides, if i didn’t have feelings for someone, i wouldn’t put in the effort to sneak out just to see them.”
you hummed, not sure what to say as she did have a point
but could you really blame yourself for wanting an actual relationship rather than one that’s forced to go unnoticed?
“i should talk to kuroo about it...” you sigh out.
“talk to me about what?” an oh-so-familiar voice calls out to you and your friend
kuroo’s figure approaches the two of you as he give you a curt smile with hidden meanings that you weren’t able to even notice. you were too caught up in your own meddling thoughts that you also didn’t notice the way kuroo frowned slightly at the way you avoided eye contact with him
“nothing,” was all you said before standing up and throwing your trash away. “lunch is almost over so we should all get to class.” was all you said before briskly walking away
kuroo’s brows furrow in confusion as he looks over to your friend, “what’s up with (y/n)?”
“she thinks you’re too embarrassed to be with her, that’s why you hide your relationship.” she cuts straight to the point (homegirl just wants to eat her lunch in peace ffs)
“what?” your boyfriend huffs out in shock, almost offended at the fact that you out of all people would believe such a thing. “why does she think that?”
your friends shrugs, “not sure. that’s something you should be asking her, but if it were me, i would want a normal relationship as well.”
kuroo doesn’t say another word before walking away. and yet his walk quickened so he could catch up to you before you could get to class, footsteps echoing through the hallway in patters as he sees your familiar figure near your classroom
“(y/n)!” he calls out to you as you slide the classroom’s door open. it was sure to catch the attention of the rest of the students already in the classroom as you turn towards him, brows furrowed in the same confusion
as he neared you, there was almost no sign in him stopping, sending your heart beating in a frenzy as you parted your lips to tell him to slow down
but before a single syllable could even fall from your lips, your boyfriend’s own pair press against yours harshly. it was sweet like caramel and you swore everything moved in a slow motion when you suddenly realized where you two were
he stole your breath away when he pulled apart from you, eyes immediately scanning the room of his own classmates staring at him in awe
“since when were you two dating?” matsukawa asked rather loudly, it seemed that others were interested in knowing as well.
panic suddenly coursed through you as you gave kuroo a look, gravely ignoring the way yoru heart was thumping against your chest and the dozens of unanswered questions running through your head
“w-we’re not actually dati—”
“we’ve been together for a few months actually.” kuroo cuts you off, sending you a wink before entering the classroom
#haikyuu!!#haikyuu#haikyuu imagines#haikyuu scenarios#haikyuu x reader#haikyuu angst#haikyuu headcanons#haikyuu hcs#miya atsumu#atsumu x reader#atsumu angst#atsumu headcanons#kozume kenma#kenma x reader#kenma angst#kenma headcanons#oikawa tooru#oikawa x reader#oikawa angst#oikawa headcanons#kuroo tetsurou#kuroo x reader#kuroo angst#kuroo headcanons
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Why I Left
Disclaimer: Everything below is my own story, my own opinion. I’m not fighting anyone on this, as in: try to fight me on this/be rude about this and I’ll probably just block you. I really don’t care.
The Start: When I first joined the DSMP fandom, I heard a LOT of bad shit about it. Going in, I figured those were just the typical. Like, every fandom has its rough patches so of course this one would too! Especially as a YouTuber based fandom. I’ve seen some shit there, I know what it’s like. This fandom, though, seems almost the worst from what I’ve seen. I love the streamers, I love the story and characters of DSMP, but with the way others act I can’t see myself interacting with the fandom.
CC Boundaries VS Everyone Else’s Boundaries: A huge thing that bothers me is how boundaries are treated. Obviously there should be respect towards the streamers, and how people interact with them. Just, this fandom doesn’t seem to realize that respect should also be shown to other fans! What they create, what characters they like, that is another person on the other side of the screen. You can disagree and think they’re wrong, but telling people they’re terrible/abuse apologists/whatever over MINECRAFT FICTION is ridiculous.
Dark Content Hypocrisy: This story - the canon story - has had cults, bombings, murder, war, and so much dark shit in it. Granted, this isn’t imaged due to the medium of the story being electronic LEGOS but they are STILL part of the story. So when Dead Dove creators decide to play with these characters and y’all harass them? The word of the day: Hypocrisy.
Fanfics: Fanfics are for fans. As long as you tag correctly, do what you need to keep others safe, write what you want. If you go through all the warnings and barriers and STILL try to complain about someone’s writing? That’s on you.
Apologist Discourse: I call myself a C!Dream Apologist(once again, F I C T I O N A L CHARACTER) and am told I can’t participate with a majority of the fandom. Dream is literally the guy who started the server. I can’t have FRIENDS in a FANDOM because I like one block dude over another block dude. I am told I am the worst of the worst because I like one block dude over another block dude. I have had to unfollow and block someone I admired from a different fandom, because after a stream they said anyone who’s still a C!Dream Apologist was “literally abusers in the making” and “eat my ass on the way out you freaks”. I followed them for a entirely different fandom.
It goes both ways too! I can’t fit in with the main C!Dream Apologists because I love Michael and C!Ranboo! There was a lot of making fun of people being upset and worried over Michael since he’s “just a mob” but fucking surprise y’all!! We exist! All the discourse makes me sick.
Entitlement: Stop telling streamers how to play THEIR characters. Stop telling streamers they’re playing THEIR characters wrong. You are not the writer. You are not them. Stop being so entitled over how people write, how people use characters, how streamers play WITH THEIR FRIENDS.
Conclusion: I do not feel safe in the DSMP fandom. At all. I can’t tell who I can interact with or trust. I can’t tell who I can even like artwork from without being screamed at that I deserve to die because I like a blob dude. I am constantly walking a minefield with this fandom because of how others act, no matter who I block or blacklist, it always gets through. I’m so tired. This fandom makes me unable to sleep on stream days and sick to my stomach to where I avoid media entirely.
I literally have to tag this post with it and I’m scared of how others will react to me.
This fandom is cursed. I want nothing to do with it. Even if I steal and base OCs for my Lost City on streamers from it, I have to moderate the comments and live in nervous terror of others reactions. I get worse anxiety from this than fucking COVID. THATS NOT HEALTHY. It’s a fictional fucking story! Stop treating real people like shit and sending them horrible messages or telling them they can’t be a part of a fandom because they like a different character than you! What the hell!!
What’s worse is I still want community with it. I still want to read the fics and reblog the art and enjoy it. But I have to do that by myself and in small doses because of other people.
I don’t feel safe with them. That’s why I have such a huge disclaimer for the Lost City. I just want to have fun. It’s literally fiction. It shouldn’t ever be this bad.
But it is.
#dreamsmp#dsmp#tags for those who want to block it#vent#angry rant#hurt rant#big post#long read#my opinion#not looking to argue#not looking to fight#just getting it all off my chest to try and find some peace for once#fandom wank#fandom problems#talking fire
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My Problem with Loki
Loki is a character beloved by many people. He has been for a decade now, although some people who read comics before the Marvel Cinematic Universe was a thing were fans of him long before the first Thor came out. Over the years since his appearance in that movie the character has gone through a lot of changes, evolving from a villain to an anti-hero both in the MCU and in the comics, the latter even killing off his original incarnation to reincarnate him in a younger body resembling Tom Hiddleston in the hopes that the comics could capitalize on his popularity in order to sell more books. That move, unfortunately, did not bear fruit, with Loki’s solo series being canceled after only five issues. However, Loki remained popular in the movies, so much so that when he was killed off in Infinity War, people were pissed.
As a result of his enduring popularity, Kevin Feige and company decided to give Loki his own solo series on Disney+ when the decision was made to create a string of MCU tie-in shows to supplement the movies, and boost subscription numbers to Disney’s new streaming service. Fans of the character rejoiced. Finally, our favorite character was going to be in the spotlight, and not be merely a supporting character for Thor and hopefully not a butt monkey for the Avengers like he was in the third act of the movie of the same name. WandaVision and The Falcon and The Winter Soldier had previously had well-received and successful debuts on that same platform, and it was hoped that Loki would do the same. Loki turned out to be the most successful of the Disney+ MCU shows that have come out so far, scoring highest in the ratings. As of this writing, it holds a 93% fresh rating on Rotten Tomatoes and an 8.5 on IMDb.
Those numbers, however, don’t reflect the entire audience and there were a lot of people who were not altogether happy with the product we received. Many people who had been hardcore fans of Loki since Tom Hiddleston first put on the horned helmet were not pleased, myself included.
The show wasn’t all bad. It did set up the multiverse, introduced Kang, introduced Mobius. The special effects were outstanding, a lot of the gags were hilarious, and we did get some character development from Loki before the spotlight fell away from him and he became all about panting after the real main character...more on that in a few.
So many things, however, were wrong.
If you liked the show, thought it was perfect, and were a fan of the romance, that’s perfectly fine. There is no such thing as a wrong opinion on a work of fiction. Everyone has their interpretations, everyone has their likes and dislikes, and there is nothing wrong with liking the show. There is also nothing wrong with not liking the show. This is a concept that people on both sides of the debate fail to understand, and I have witnessed flame wars, harassment from individuals on both sides, harassment of creators on social media from both sides, and various bits of biphobia, homophobia, transphobia, and other assorted types of phobias on display. I have seen people accuse people who have different opinions on the show than them of “not being a true Loki fan” and stating that people who have certain interpretations of the character don’t “truly know Loki”.
I’m not here to do that, and I assure you, if you liked the show, that’s fine. You’re allowed to. I’m allowed to not like it, and I’m allowed to explained why I didn’t like it just as you’re allowed to explain why you did. As long as both of us are being respectful, expressing an opinion is good. There is expressing an opinion and offering constructive criticism, however, and then there is namecalling, trolling, and having a tantrum and accusing someone of being “aggressive” when they don’t share the same opinion you do.
There is a huge difference between saying “I find the character of Sylvie to be problematic, and here is why” and “I think fans of Sylvie are sick and need therapy”, and people need to learn the difference between the two. Unfortunately, you have people who have become very protective of their favorite characters and tend to take any criticism leveled at said characters personally. It’s basically “You don’t like them? Well then you don’t like me, and since you don’t like me, I don’t like you.” Which is, frankly, a dangerous mentality to have. We are talking about fictional characters, not real people, and there is no need to jump to the defense of someone who does not exist. It is those people who tend to demonstrate that they have unstable personalities and immaturity, and they are the ones I have started blocking on Twitter because, being an adult woman, I don’t have the patience to deal with immature nonsense like that.
So, if you read this and then decide you want to hunt me down to give me a piece of your mind, tell me that I’m not a “true” fan of Loki, and accuse me of whatever, don’t bother. This piece isn’t here for that. It’s here because I wanted to compile my thoughts and feelings in a way that would better for me to articulate. It’s more or less a venting mechanism, purely for my benefit. If someone else gets something out of it, fine. If the creators of the show happen to see it, which is very unlikely because A) I’m not exactly going to push it onto them on their social media to get them to read it and B) they already get bombarded with tons of opinions on the show on a daily basis and aren’t going to care about one more voice added to the mix, even one who has basically compiled a novel, then alright.
And it is a novel, because I have a lot to say about Loki. I have been a huge fan of the character since long before Tom Hiddleston began playing him. My first encounter with Marvel’s Loki came in the form of the X-Men comics, specifically The Asgardian Wars run. It’s available in trade, and you should check it out. I read that run when I was around 10 years old, and I enjoyed Loki as the bad guy in the two stories that make up the collection. The first has him creating a special wish fountain that has a monkey’s paw effect in that it imbues mortals with special gifts and powers, and has the potential to make Earth a better place, but at the cost of killing every magical person and being on Earth. The X-Men and Alpha Flight find out about this after a plane piloted by the wife of one of the X-Men happens to crash in the general location the fountain is located. The two teams go to investigate, Shaman and Snowbird who are both magical beings begin dying, it’s discovered Loki created the fountain in order to score brownie points with The Ones Who Sit Above In Shadow (a pantheon of deities who are basically the Gods to the Asgardians), and after a lengthy battle Loki is defeated, he shuts down the fountain under pressure from The Ones, and slinks back to Asgard with tail between his legs.
In the second story, set after the heroes of Earth had helped Asgard defeat Surtur, Loki’s attention is caught by Storm, who at the time was depowered. He kidnaps her and brings her to Asgard intending to use her to replace Thor as the Goddess of the Storm, and use her as a pawn to, what else, conquer Asgard and seize the throne.
I really enjoyed Loki then, and felt sorry that he never appeared in any other X-Men story, not even in an issue of the New Mutants, and that team boasted an actual Valkyrie (Danielle Moonstar) as one of its members. I was a kid at the time and read pretty much exclusively X-Men since those were the books my father purchased for me. I never felt right about asking him for other books since we were a family with money struggles and I didn’t want to be more of a burden by requesting Thor or Avengers comics--that, and I just didn’t find Thor or the Avengers all that interesting at the time, a sentiment shared by a lot of people until the first Iron Man made us actually care about Tony Stark. I wouldn’t have an opportunity to start reading more comics featuring Loki until I was an adult and able to visit comic book stores on my own. I read several runs that featured him as a character, including Ragnarok, the Broxton, OK run where Loki first appeared as a woman, Dark Reign, and finally Siege. I also went back and read Walt Simonson’s legendary run on The Mighty Thor, which I highly recommend.
Suffice it to say, I’ve been a fan of the character for a long time, and in fact when Tom Hiddleston was cast in the role for Thor, I remember thinking that he was too young. But then I figured it was Hollywood, of course they’re going to deage Loki so that he appears closer in age to his adopted brother in contrast to the comics pre-Siege where Loki was often drawn to look like he was as old as Odin and therefore could be Thor’s uncle or even father as opposed to brother.
Over the years I grew to enjoy the MCU’s version of the character, enjoy Tom Hiddleston in the role, and like most other people was greatly saddened by his death in Infinity War. Like other fans, I looked forward to his solo series and had high hopes for it. Hopes that were, unfortunately, dashed.
It Was Rushed
In the MCU, it took Loki years to go from troubled young god, to villain, to ambivalent ally, to anti-hero, to hero. Literally, years. Months had passed between the end of Thor and the beginning of Avengers during which Loki endured who-knows-what at the hands of Thanos. We don’t know exactly what still. The Loki series didn’t answer that, I guess because they didn’t want to devote precious screentime to an interesting backstory for what was supposed to be the main character when they could focus on something else instead. That something else will be elaborated on.
In Episode 1, Loki is still the villain from Avengers, something he would have remained as into The Dark World. It would take him being in Asgard’s prisons for a year and then him accidentally getting his adopted mother Frigga killed in order for him to begin to do a heel-face turn. From this, we can clearly see that a transition from ax-crazy bad guy to anti-hero is not going to happen overnight. For this person I shall call Ragnarok Loki, it was a process that took time. He suffered a complete mental breakdown while in Asgard’s prison, a fragile emotional state that was compounded by the anger and massive guilt he felt at Frigga’s death.
Even after that, he still hadn’t completely abandoned his villainous ways. At the end of The Dark World we find out that after faking his supposed death earlier in the movie, Loki has assumed Odin’s form and taken his place on Asgard’s throne. In Ragnarok, Loki is still sitting on the throne in Odin’s form, and shows no indication at all that he feels any remorse for giving his adopted father amnesia, stripping away his magic, and abandoning him on Earth to whatever fate he might meet. Loki remains a selfish bastard throughout Ragnarok until the third act, after Thor had treated him to a taste of his own medicine by sticking a taser on him and then giving him a speech about becoming predictable and complacent.
Loki’s arc was one that spanned four movies and six years, since in-universe there were a couple of years between The Dark World and Ragnarok. That meant that his character development took actual time and was realistic. It was one of the things that drew people to the character, the fact that he had a very relatable and believable redemption arc.
Compare that to Episode 1. In less than a day he goes from being the Loki that we saw in Avengers, batshit crazy, selfish, callous, and untrusting, to making personal confessions to a man he had just met only a couple hours previously and agreeing to help the organization that had arrested, stripped, imprisoned, tried, and almost executed him.
What?
I will give the show this: In Episode 2, he shows that he’s still up to his old tricks when he feeds Mobius and the agents all that horsecrap about how a Loki works in the Ren Faire tent, and then revealing that he plans to take over the TVA when he confronts his variant in the futuristic Wal-Mart. The weeping confession to Mobius, that I can’t really get over. How do you go from haughty, arrogant, and “trust is for children and dogs”, to “I don’t enjoy hurting people” in just a couple of hours? The show never indicated that it was a manipulation tactic on Loki’s part. Instead, we were basically told to believe that they became friends just that fast. That emotionally stunted and closed-off Loki made a connection with another person in a matter of hours. Makes sense. Don’t get me wrong, I like Mobius and feel he makes a good foil for Loki. I hope to see more of him in the future. I just have a tough time finding their friendship all that believable.
This would not be the only relationship in the show that happened too fast that we were forced to just buy, which leads me to Sylvie.
She’s the variant that the TVA had been hunting, that Mobius recruited Loki to help capture. And while I normally hate it when people ascribe a certain label onto a new female character because reasons (ones that are usually misogynistic), I think it fits rather well in Sylvie’s case.
Enter The Mary Sue
Mary Sue is a term that gets thrown around a lot. To sum up the meaning in very simple terms, it refers to a character who is too perfect to be believable. Mary Sues are often author-self inserts in fiction, they’re usually the love interest for at least one male hero and it’s usually the male hero the author will admit to having a crush on, their scenes usually are presented much more descriptively than those of the other characters, the story will revolve around them often at the expense of the development and plots for the other characters of the story, and they’re presented as beautiful, powerful, intelligent, beautiful, special, strong, beautiful, and desirable. Yes, beautiful is on the list more than once, and it’s deliberate.
The term comes from an old Star Trek parody fanfic, and while it is usually applied to original characters in fan fiction, the term has been used to describe characters in canon media as well. Some examples of characters who have been described as Mary Sues would include Bella from the Twilight books, Felicity from the show Arrow, Jaenelle Angelline from Anne Bishop’s The Black Jewel novels, Sookie Stackhouse from True Blood, Rey from the last Star Wars trilogy, and Jean Grey from the X-Men comics. Note I do not necessarily agree that those characters are Mary Sues, I have merely heard these characters referred to as Mary Sues, and when I look at them objectively I can kind of see where the accusations come from. Some other terms that can apply are Creator’s Pet and of course Author Self-Insert. Not all Mary Sues are Author Self-Inserts, but a lot of them are. Also, not all characters who can be labeled Mary Sues are female, though they often are. The male version of a Mary Sue is called a Marty Stu, and a couple of characters I’ve seen get ascribed that label include Harry Potter, Daemon Sadi from Anne Bishop’s The Black Jewel novels, Edward from Twilight, and Red Hulk from Marvel Comics. Even Batman and Wolverine haven’t been immune from the Marty Stu stamp, although you can argue that it does apply in their cases especially depending on who’s writing them. Sometimes it is painfully obvious they are author self-inserts...the aforementioned Bella is a good example. Others, you can only speculate on. And while there are theories going around that Sylvie is someone’s self-insert, we don’t have definitive proof of that.
There are good arguments, however, for her being labeled a Mary Sue and Creator’s Pet.
First are her powers. In the show we are told that Sylvie taught herself magic, especially her ability to “enchant”, the power to get into the minds of others and manipulate them. The fact that she taught herself would indicate that her education and skill in using magic should be lacking, right? She should not be as good as, say, someone who learned magic from his foster mother who herself was taught by Asgardian witches?
Yet in the show, Sylvie not only runs circles around Loki magically wise, she even teaches him a few tricks. This is startlingly in contrast to the comics. Loki’s Sylvie is partially based on the character Sylvie Lushton from the Young Avengers, a bad guy who was once a normal girl whom Loki imbued with powers before his death at the hands of the Sentry during the events of 2010’s Siege storyline. In the comics, Loki not only gave Sylvie her powers, but he was the one who taught her how to use them. Now, of course things in the MCU are not going to follow the way things are in the comics. MCU Loki is nowhere near as old as comics Loki and has so far not demonstrated the ability to give other beings powers. And MCU Sylvie is a composite of Sylvie Lushton and Lady Loki, which is also problematic, but we’ll get to that.
But the point is that Sylvie had no training. Her magic is some improvised slapped-together stuff that at best she picked up here and there and at worst she just pulled out of her ass. Now, knowing that, we’re supposed to buy that she can mop the floor magically wise with someone who was formally trained by a sorceress? And that furthermore, she can school him as well?
To make up for her lack of experience and knowledge, Loki is nerfed. Power wise and intellectually wise, he is nerfed. In Thor and Avengers Loki is smart, well-spoken, and a master manipulator. At one point he is able to turn all of the Avengers against one another, and while his magic has never been anywhere near the level it was at in the comics pre-Siege (after his resurrection, he was powered down and is currently nowhere near the powerhouse he had been prior to 2011) he was able to pull off some impressive displays of skill nonetheless. Shape shifting, illusion casting, it was a good repertoire.
In Episode 3, however...well, he does use teleportation to some impressive affect during his fight with Sylvie, but he still doesn’t get the upperhand. And he should. Loki is a better trained fighter, better trained in sorcery, and realistically should have at the least managed to incapacitate his variant. He doesn’t however, because the moment he meets Sylvie his IQ drops about 20 points. He falls easily for her tricks, makes laughable plans, gets drunk and draws too much attention when he knows that is a bad idea, and manages to get them both stuck on a moon that will soon be dust courtesy of the rogue planet about to crash into it. Loki has made some blunders in the various MCU movies he’s been in, mostly due to his own arrogance and tendency to underestimate his foes, but he’s not that stupid. In fact, in The Dark World he screams at Thor and calls him an idiot for drawing attention to themselves by hijacking an elven ship and crashing into every column and statue within a fifty-foot radius.
Where exactly is that smart, calculating, more careful Loki we know from the films? He’s been transformed and dumbed down, in an attempt to prop Sylvie up. It’s a tired trope, making the male character a dumbass in order to make the female character look good. Well, I should say male-presenting and female-presenting characters in this case, but their supposed gender fluidity really is not represented well and it’s completely contradicted later on, but we’ll get to that.
Anyway, making the male character stupid in order to make the female character look better by comparison is not empowering. It’s insulting. It implies that women are not smart or capable enough to meet men on equal footing, that the only way we can shine is not by virtue of our own strengths, but merely by making us look better than the men.
She doesn’t just outshine Loki intellectually and power wise, she outshines him period. The show from Episode 3 on becomes about Sylvie. She is the show’s main focus, and Loki? He’s relegated to the role of supporting character in the series that’s named after him. Supporting character, and love interest. From Episode 3 on, the show might as well be called Sylvie.
Now, some people will say that since Sylvie is a Loki, the show was indeed focusing on Loki. The problem is, the show is very inconsistent as to whether or not Sylvie really is a Loki or a different person entirely. I will explain more later, but the writers seem to change Sylvie’s identity to suit whatever narrative they want to present to the audience, including the pre-Pixar Disney romance they foist upon us.
The Romance, and why some find it gross
One major characteristic of the Mary Sue is that she always draws the romantic and sexual interest of the main male character, who may or may not be a Marty Stu himself. Oftentimes he’s not, and Loki does not fit the criteria of a Marty Stu by any stretch of the imagination. These romances always happen fast with little to no buildup. There is no what writers of romance call “slow burn”, it’s just throw Mary at the male character, hook them up, and get the audience to buy it. Basically, it’s reminiscent of the romance stories in the Classical Era Disney animated films. Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, and Cinderella all fall madly in love with their princes within minutes of meeting them. There’s no getting to know each other, there is no preamble, there is no slow courtship, no real drama to speak of. It’s basically Love At First Sight or True Love. This trend continues even into the Disney Renaissance. In The Little Mermaid, Ariel is willing to make a deal with a witch to give up her fins for a prince she hasn’t even spoken to yet. He doesn’t even know she exists, and she leaves her home and family behind, gives up her voice, all for a mere shot at hooking up with him.
That’s not love, that’s lust. That’s hormones overruling your brain, and it’s an insulting trope, one that feminists have railed against for years. Disney has made a little progress. The movie Frozen took the mickey out of the Love At First Sight/True Love trope with the song “Love Is An Open Door” and the prince Anna wanting to marry turning out to be a major sleazebag who just wants to use her, but we still only have three Disney princesses (Elsa, Moana, and Merida) who have never had love interests and two (Anna and Rapunzel) whose love stories come close to being slow burns, out of 12 official Princesses. There’s still a long way to go, and boy is there a major step backwards in Loki.
In Episode 3, Loki fights Sylvie and they end up on Lamentis 1. Sylvie spends a good portion of the time insulting and trying to kill Loki, and Loki finds himself having to defend himself from her. That changes once they get on the train going to the Arc. After sneaking aboard the train using a disguise and a flimsy story, the two Lokis sit in a booth, where Loki proceeds to drink champagne. It is then that, out of nowhere, the conversation shifts from how Sylvie learned her powers to the topic of love.
Why? Why would you bring that up in conversation with someone who was doing her best to kill you a couple hours prior?
Then Loki makes things worse by asking Sylvie if she has a beau waiting for her. Why? It doesn’t make sense. The two of you are at each other’s throats, she’s done her best to kill you, neither of you trusts the other, and, completely out of left field, you decide to basically ask “So...are you single?”
Now, enemies to lovers is a trope that can work when done right. Typically, it’s a very subtle, slow progression that the audience witnesses over time in a novel, movie or television series. Weeks and even months will go by in the narrative during which the two people go from wanting each other dead to developing feelings for one another. There’s usually a “will they, won’t they period” that lasts for some time that’s full of teases and flirting before the couple does hook up and gives the audience the resolution. Done in this way, enemies to lovers can work.
This...this is not the right way to do enemies to lovers. Within a couple of hours Loki and Sylvie go from hatred and doing their damnedest to stabbing one another in the backs, to having a connection that causes a nexus event?
By the way, that nexus event makes no sense. In Episode 2, it is established that it is impossible to create a nexus event in an apocalypse. It is why Sylvie was able to avoid capture by the TVA for so long. In fact, just minutes prior to the two of them almost dying in Episode 4, Sylvie flat-out says that she figured out that she needed to hide in apocalypses because she discovered she didn’t create a nexus event when she hid in them.
Now the two of them are able to create a nexus event in the midst of an apocalypse? Why? Their “connection” isn’t going to lead to any consequences...they were about to die. No one else need never have known about the “moment” the two of them shared. It’s very confusing and the only purpose it really serves is to paint Loki and Sylvie as soulmates, which doesn’t make sense in the context of the show. The concept of soulmates is that for every person, there is someone out there they are predestined to be with. Loki is a show that, at the core of it, is about rejecting predestination and embracing free will. In that context, the idea of soulmates is ludicrous and contradictory to the message that we make our own destiny. This is why True Love is unrealistic, and I hate to break it to you romantics out there, but Love At First sight does not exist.
Infatuation At First Sight exists, but that is not Love, no matter what your hormones are telling you. Love takes time to evolve, and it takes work to maintain. It sure as hell doesn’t happen after less than 12 hours of knowing each other, during which a huge chunk of time was devoted to trying to manipulate, outsmart, and murder the person you’re supposedly in love with. No one falls in love in less than 12 hours, period, unless it’s a Classical Era Disney animated movie. They basically turned Loki into a big Disney Romance trope. I have a very hard time buying that Loki, who we have established is emotionally stunted and closed off, would form a love connection in just a few hours, especially with someone who was doing her best to murder him in that timespan.
That is not the only reason this relationship is problematic. The term “Selfcest” has been thrown around, and a lot of defenders of this particular ship claim that the term was very recently made up in social media for the sole purpose of badmouthing this particular romance. That is not the case. Selfcest is a term that has existed among fiction writers for years, it’s just that more people have recently become aware of it thanks to this show. The trope has been used and referred to in various works of fiction, especially in fantasy and science fiction where cloning, alternative universes, and magic occur. A lot of the insults I get from people who can’t stand that I don’t like the romance basically go along the lines of saying selfcest doesn’t exist. No, it doesn’t...in reality. But this isn’t reality, is it? It’s fiction. It’s a fictional world where such a thing could be possible, and even in works where it’s not possible it’s often alluded to.
In A Song Of Ice And Fire, we have the infamous twincest relationship going on between Cersei and Jamie Lannister, and it is heavily implied that sleeping with her brother is the closest that Cersei can get to banging herself and that is why she does it. Jamie is basically everything she feels she should have been and was denied due to being born a woman. In fact, in later books when he reunites with her after having been away from King’s Landing for over a year, during which time he’s grown a beard and shaved his head, Cersei no longer finds him as attractive since they no longer look as much alike.
And with advances in cloning, selfcest might be possible in the future. We already have sex robots, and people with money are capable of making those robots look like themselves. There is nothing stopping them from doing it.
Knowing all of this, the argument of “selfcest doesn’t exist!” falls flat. And it especially falls flat when you’re referring to a fictional universe where a large purple man once killed off half the population of said universe with a snap of his fingers, where scientists turn into giant green monsters, the Norse gods not only exist but regularly interact with people on Earth, and there’s such a thing as a Sorcerer Supreme.
As I have said, the show has been rather inconsistent in stating what exactly Sylvie’s identity is. One moment, we are told Sylvie is a Loki and that she and Loki are the same person. Mobius says it, Kang says it multiple times, Judge Renslayer says it, the director and the writers state it in interviews. But then in the next breath, they contradict it by saying that she’s not a Loki, she’s Sylvie and a different person.
You can’t have it both ways. Which is it? Either she’s a Loki, or she’s not. The narrative is very confusing and it changes depending on how they want us to see Sylvie, especially in relation to her romance with Loki. It’s so much easier to avoid the selfcest/incest accusations when you can say they are different people. But then they say they’re the same person. Make up your minds!
Since the show first established that Sylvie is a Loki, I’m going with that. Especially since we saw a bit of her backstory. She grew up in Asgard as a member of the royal family, which means she had Odin as a father, Frigga as mother, and Thor as brother. She may or may not have the same DNA as Loki. We never got confirmation either way, and there are people who argue that they don’t to which I have to ask: How do you know? The show never tells us! “Oh, well, there’s Alligator Loki, are you going to say he has the same DNA as well?” Well, we are never told how exactly Alligator Loki came to be. Is he actually an alligator, or is he Loki who somehow got permanently stuck when he shapeshifted? People tend to forget that he can do that. Ragnarok established that he can turn into a snake, and a deleted scene actually had the childhood story go that Loki turned into a rug to cover a hole in the ground and then dumped Thor into it. There is the scene where Doctor Strange drops Loki through a portal, and Thor is left poking at a business card, and it is clear that for a moment he thinks that Loki turned into that. We know Loki can shapeshift, so Alligator Loki can very well have the same DNA. We just don’t know, because the show never explains it for the same reason the show cut out the scenes with Throg fighting Loki...to devote more screentime to Sylki.
Even if they don’t have the same DNA, it’s still established that they are the same person, they have the same family, they’re both the God/dess of Mischief, and even Sylvie herself acknowledges that she is a Loki despite the fact that she changed her name. So selfcest very much applies here, and a good argument can be made that selfcest is the ultimate in incest...after all, there isn’t anyone else you’re more related to than yourself. It is very understandable, therefore, that a lot of people would be very, very uncomfortable with such a relationship. Having the same DNA would merely be the icing on the very gross cake.
Furthermore, just because selfcest does not exist in reality does not mean someone can’t find the concept distasteful. “It’s not real!” “It’s just fiction!” Yes, and people are allowed to have their own feelings and opinions on fiction. If they find the idea of selfcest hard to stomach, that’s their prerogative and you really have no right to tell them they are wrong for feeling that way. They should not have to justify to anyone why they feel that way either. No one owes you an explanation for why they find real world incest or cannibalism distasteful, so they don’t owe you an explanation for this.
“Well, of course Loki would fall for himself...he’s a narcissist!” Is he though? Is he really? Having dealt with my fair share of narcissists in my life, I have to wonder if the fans who say that, along with the writers, know what a narcissist really is.
Is Loki a narcissist?
Bringing up Cersei Lannister again, the novels she appears in establishes that she is an extreme narcissist. She sleeps with her twin brother because it’s the closest she can come to sleeping with herself, and she desires to do that because she is a narcissist. A narcissist is someone whose personality is defined by an inflated sense of self-importance, troubled relationships, lack of empathy for others, and an excessive deep-seated need for attention and admiration. It’s a very simplistic definition, and there are plenty of YouTube videos devoted to delving into narcissists into more depth, as well as videos on how to cope with the aftermath of abuse at the hands of narcissists. Narcissists are so devoted to themselves that they ignore the needs and the feelings of those in their lives, which often results in abusive behavior. There are entire support groups that exist for victims of narcissists.
At first glance, one can see why some might consider Loki a narcissist. He does engage in some pretty selfish behavior, he goes to great lengths to get attention, his relationships to his family are indeed fraught with drama, and he seems to have a pretty overinflated ego. He even goes so far as to write a play featuring himself as the central character, and build a giant golden statue of himself after taking over Asgard in the guise of Odin. But really, is his ego truly that big? Or he is overcompensating for his self-hatred and self-disgust?
Loki suffered quite the emotional blow when he found out his true heritage, a revelation that shook him to his very core. Of course, his relationship with his father suffered as a result...the man lied to him for his entire life. Their relationship really was not that great even before that since Odin found it easier to relate to Thor, who was more like him in personality, than to Loki, who was more cerebral and quieter. Loki’s relationship to Frigga fared much better. He’s quick to forgive her involvement in covering up the truth about his parentage, and it is obvious that they are close. Even his relationship with Thor prior to the events of the movie is not all that bad, the two brothers are affectionate and playful, and when Loki interrupts Thor’s coronation, it’s not just for the sake of creating trouble, but to postpone Thor taking the crown for another little while because he is not fit to rule. At the time Thor had yet to go through his character development arc on Earth and he was still an overly arrogant, bloodthirsty, elitist douchebag, so Loki really had a good point.
A true narcissist would have done what Loki did just for the sake of making life difficult for Thor. Also, he would have done it because he wanted the throne. Loki states repeatedly that he never wanted to rule. A true narcissist would have been all smiles about taking the throne instead of being reluctant about it as Loki was when Frigga handed him Gungnir.
Throughout the films, and in the first episode of the series, we see that Loki does indeed love his family and is capable of feeling guilt over the things that he does to them, intentionally or not. Narcissists typically don’t feel remorse. As far as they are concerned, they are perfect and can do no wrong, so they have nothing to feel bad about. If they hurt you, it’s because you deserved it. You shouldn’t have provoked their ire.
Loki feels bad for getting Frigga killed, and then later on Odin. Then he is in tears when Odin dies, and later at the mere thought of never seeing Thor again when the two brothers talk in an elevator on Sakaar. Those are not the actions of someone who is incapable of loving anyone but himself, as I’ve seen so many people claim about him. And the fact that he sacrificed himself to save his brother also kind of kills the whole “narcissist” narrative.
In Episode 1, Loki breaks down and confesses to Mobius that he doesn’t like hurting people. He does it because it’s part of the façade, and admits that he sees himself as weak. A few episodes later, he admits to a memory illusion Sif that he craves attention “because I’m a narcissist” and admits to being afraid of being alone. That is far more self-reflection than a typical narcissist is capable of in my experience. As I said, narcissists tend to think they are perfect. A true narcissist would never admit to having any flaws, and sure as hell would never admit that they are a narcissist. As far as the true narcissist is concerned, if you find them flawed in any way, that’s on you. The narcissist has no need for self-reflection because they honestly see nothing wrong with themselves, and believe that they don’t need to change...it’s everyone else who does.
A good real-life example from my past is a former friend I’ll call D. D was a self-proclaimed brat who was quite proud of the fact that she could be difficult to be in a relationship with and tended to go through men like tissue paper. She was demanding, self-centered, extremely jealous, manipulative, and prone to wild mood swings. She could and did go from zero to insane at the drop of a hat. In the time I knew her, she left a string of burnt guys behind, and according to her it was because they just weren’t man enough to handle her. She also left behind a string of broken former friends, to the point where there really needed to be a support group for former friends of D who suddenly had her turn them into Public Enemy Number 1 when they either started taking attention away from D, or...well, that was it really. As I said, she was a very jealous person and had a chronic need to be the center of attention, especially if there were men around. Anyway, instead of working on herself to become less self-involved, self-absorbed, and more empathetic, she double downed on her abrasiveness and constant need for attention until she finally wore the poor man down and he either ghosted her or outright dumped her. She never broke up with them, preferring to keep them around for as long as they were willing in order to toy with them as a cat does with a mouse. I tried to talk to her about her horrible behavior, but instead of taking my constructive criticism and maybe using it to make some needed changes, she completely turned on me and did her best to make my life hell until I finally cut her out of it. I learned two things: Narcissists don’t want help because they don’t feel they need it and they are never going to change as a result, and never, ever try to confront a narcissist. It’ll only end badly.
A more famous example? Former US President Donald Trump. I won’t get into that, because really all you need to do is perform a quick Google search to see what all he’s done and witness his narcissism on full display. But really, place him side by side with Loki. Do you see any similarities at all? Maybe on the surface, but when you go deeper...no. Loki is not a narcissist. He’s capable of deep self-reflection, owns his faults, is capable of loving others, and feels remorse. I would argue that anyone who says he is a narcissist, either does not know the character, or hasn’t ever actually dealt with a narcissist in real life, to which I can only say: Lucky you.
I honestly would argue that calling Loki a narcissist is actually doing a disservice to victims of abuse from actual narcissists.
What about Sylvie? Well, in contrast to Loki who does show remorse while Mobius is playing that “This Is Your Life” reel for him, Sylvie shows no remorse or regret. She knows that the TVA agents she kills are as much victims as she is. They are innocent variants who were kidnapped from Earth and forced to work for the TVA after having their memories wiped. She knows this, yet the first time we see her she burns a bunch of TVA agents alive, and she just stands there watching as they scream in agony. In the next episode she says right out that she’s “having some fun” while possessing the body of C-90 and murdering more agents. She is not at all sorry about doing what she did, and we’re supposed to be understanding since she was kidnapped as a child. Okay, but the entire TVA didn’t do that. The agents she kills didn’t personally kidnap her. The only one we see who was directly involved in that is Renslayer. Sylvie “did what she had to do”, fine. But she doesn’t feel bad about it, at all. The flashback to her as a child takes great pains to try to show us what a good person she is when she cries out “Help him!” as another prisoner is being beaten, but I guess she grew out of it.
We don’t know if Sylvie has any other narcissistic traits besides lack of remorse because, well, the show really doesn’t do much to show her personality. Other than killing people, trying to kill Loki, and then flirting with Loki, we just don’t really see much to her. It’s another trait of a Mary Sue. Mary Sues often have bland, one-dimensional personalities. After all, their only purpose is usually to serve as love interests for one or more male characters. Mary Sues break the “show, don’t tell” rule by having the other characters verbally inform us about their traits, usually while singing their praises, but we don’t actually see those traits in the Mary Sue herself.
Loki calls Sylvie “amazing”, but how amazing is she, really? She kills people she knows are victims, she endangers the timeline just to sneak into the TVA, and then she kills Kang despite knowing that there is a very good chance that doing so could unleash something far, far worse than him. Then again, it doesn’t have to make sense when you’re pushing an unwanted and unasked for romance on an audience who was expecting a scifi show, not a romance.
I have spoken in a few places about this. Romance is fine, but in a show that blatantly places itself in the scifi genre, it really should only be the background, not center stage. When I expressed this opinion, I got accused of being dismissive of an essential part of the human experience. Well, first of all, congratulations: You just invalidated the existence of people on the asexual and aromantic spectrums, not to mention people who are celibate by choice. Second, that is why we have the romance genre. To tell stories centered around romance. I like romance, I read romance novels, and I sometimes write romantic fiction. But there are some places where it just is not appropriate.
There are people who say that adding romance makes things more interesting. Nope, in those cases it’s just a smokescreen, something used to hide plot holes and distract us from just how empty the story really is. Writers like to say that if you need a romance to make things more interesting, then you really don’t have much of a story in the first place. And sadly, Loki does have some plot holes. The nexus event on Lamentis is a good example, and the romance is definitely used to distract us from that. People were so focused on “oh wow, they’re having a moment, they’re soulmates!” that they didn’t think “waitaminute...didn’t they say that nexus events can’t occur in apocalypses?”
We really did not need a romance in Loki. Period. It was unnecessary, it was distracting, a lot of people found it disturbing, and it actively hurt a marginalized group.
Loki Is A Queer Icon!...maybe
I am not going to say that the relationship between Loki and Sylvie is not a bisexual one. A bisexual relationship is a bisexual relationship regardless of whether or not the person the bisexual person is with is the opposite sex. Saying otherwise is biphobic. Biphobic people in both the straight and the queer communities have been excluding bisexual people who happen to be in opposite sex relationships for years because apparently one stops being bisexual once they get into a relationship with someone of the opposite sex. This is horseshit. I’ve been in relationships with CIS men, did I stop being attracted to other men, women, nonbinary, genderfluid, agender, and other genderqueer people? No. No, I didn’t, because while I was entangled, I was not dead. Heterosexual people don’t stop being attracted to other members of the opposite sex when they are in relationships, it’s no different with queer people.
So, stop saying that Loki and Sylvie are not a bisexual relationship. You’re not doing us any favors at all, and in fact you’re only helping the biphobes who want to kick us out of Pride and other queer spaces for daring to date members of the opposite sex.
I will address the “Bit of both” line however. In Episode 3, Loki has that response to Sylvie’s questioning about whether there had been any would-be princesses or princes in his life. Again, a conversation that comes out of nowhere. She stated outright that she didn’t trust him, clearly wanted him dead, and now she’s asking if he’s single. Whatever.
Anyway, people went nuts when Loki answered “A bit of both”. It was confirmation that Loki was bisexual, it was celebrated on social media...and it is really biphobic and Kate Herron, who is bisexual herself, really should have known better.
Biphobic people have long tried to sow division between the bi and trans communities (unsurprisingly, biphobia and transphobia tend to go hand-in-hand) by saying that the concept of being bisexual is transphobic. “Bi” means two, ergo bisexual people are only attracted to two genders, specifically CIS men and CIS women. It never occurs to anyone that the “two genders” a bisexual person could be attracted to could be, say, women (and yes, I include trans women in that, since they are in fact women, get over it) and non-binary people, or agender and gender-fluid people, it’s always CIS men and CIS women. This despite the fact that the definition of bisexual has been “attraction to more than one gender” since long before the Bisexual Manifesto was put out in 1990.
Some people have tried to remedy this by adopting the moniker of “pansexual” instead, which A) is basically reinforcing what biphobes are saying about bisexuals and creating even more division and B) doesn’t just mean “attraction to trans people as well, I’m not transphobic, I promise!” “Pansexual” is not interchangeable with “bisexual”. Pansexual is attraction to all genders. Bisexual means attraction to more than one gender, but not necessarily to all genders. You can have a bisexual person, for instance, who is attracted to all genders except for men. If you are attracted to more than one gender, but not to all genders, you are bisexual, and labeling yourself pansexual is lying and basically caving in to the biphobes.
I’m not trying to police what people call themselves...if you want to use the two terms interchangeably, if you want to call yourself bisexual, or pansexual, it’s fine. But just evaluate the reasons why. Are you calling yourself pansexual because you really think you can be, or are you just calling yourself that out of fear of being labeled transphobic? The latter, in my opinion, is not a really good reason, and it only helps deliver the biphobic message that bisexual people are transphobic.
So, by saying “a bit of both”, Loki is really helping to reinforce that biphobic assertion that bisexual people are attracted just to CIS men and CIS women. It’s disappointing, but it is Disney so I suppose that is the best we can expect for now. It just shows that Disney really has a long way to go.
What’s more problematic is the supposed genderfluid representation. Now, I am a CIS woman. As such, I feel unqualified to really say that the representation is shitty and fluidphobic. However, if I’m not qualified to say that it is, then Kate Herron and the writers are unqualified to say that it isn’t. Rule of thumb: If members of a marginalized group are telling you that you did a poor job of representing them and that you are being transphobic or fluidphobic, instead of ignoring and dismissing their concerns like a good portion of the population already does, it’s a really good idea to listen to what they are saying and learn how you can do better.
There have been some genderfluid and trans people who expressed that they liked the show, and good for them. But I have seen a lot of very valid criticisms and concerns from genderfluid and trans people about the representation on the show, and I think they really should be listened to. Kate, you and I are queer, but we are still CIS women. Ergo, we have no say in whether or not the way you attempted to present Loki’s gender fluidity is transphobic. If genderfluid people say it’s fluidphobic or trans people say it’s transphobic, then it is indeed fluidphobic/transphobic. To say otherwise is gaslighting a marginalized community who already faces gaslighting on a daily basis.
I will touch on a couple of things.
First, in Episode 5, Loki asks a bunch of his variants if they have ever encountered a female version of themselves, a question that is met with varying levels of incredulousness and even disgust. If Loki was truly genderfluid, this question wouldn’t have been asked. Genderfluid means the person shifts genders along the spectrum. Loki does this in the comics. Comicbook Loki switches between masculine and feminine presenting on the drop of a dime, especially in his current incarnation. Loki in the MCU we are told is also genderfluid, and should also be able to hop along the gender spectrum on a whim. There should not be a “female variant” therefore, since they are all the same gender. There could be a female presenting variant, but that is not the same thing. They would still be all genderfluid in that case. Also, Sylvie’s nexus event would not have been “being born the Goddess of Mischief”. Okay, the show never actually says that is the nexus event that led to her being arrested, but it heavily implies it. If Sylvie is a Loki, and as a Loki is genderfluid, her being the “Goddess” of Mischief should never have been an issue since they can change genders anyway.
Second, making Lady Loki a separate person is problematic. A lot of genderfluid people felt that this move invalidated their identity by basically showing that the same person cannot indeed be different genders along the spectrum. I don’t feel I’m totally qualified to really get into this. I will just say that if you’re going to write a genderfluid character, maybe at least get an actual genderfluid person to advise in the writing room.
Third, there is a transphobic movement called trans exclusionary radical feminism. You might have heard of it. Unfortunately, it is a very widespread movement that has done a lot of harm to the trans community, successfully blocking funding to organizations that help trans people, blocking laws that would benefit trans people, and the movement includes celebrities like Graham Linehan and JK Rowling.
One of the weapons they like to use against trans women is the concept of “autogynephilia”. It is basically the sexual fetish of becoming aroused from thinking of oneself as a woman. Many, many of these transphobic “feminists” love to say that trans women are merely men who have this particular sexual fetish.
It’s bullshit of course. Maybe there is a small segment of the male population that has that fetish, but trans women are not included in that. For trans women, things like dressing as women, changing their names, having state and federal issued IDs that say they are female, and being able to use the restrooms and change rooms that match the gender they actually are as opposed to the one they were assigned at birth is not a matter of sexual arousal. It’s a matter of making their external realities match their internal ones. It’s a matter of validation of their identities as women. Sexual gratification has nothing to do with it.
Now, Loki is not trans, but genderfluid people do tend to fall under the trans umbrella. We have Loki, a supposedly genderfluid individual and masculine presenting, falling head over heels in love with a feminine presenting version of himself. Maybe it’s just me, but it just seems like a form of autogynephilia to me.
Way to go, Kate...you just gave the TERFs more ammo.
One more note: At one point, Kate tweeted a list of the different Loki emojis, and “jokingly” included #FiretruckLoki with an emoji of a firetruck. Kate, you do realize that a “joke” transphobes love to harp on is that they can identify as an attack helicopter, right?
It’s his way of learning self-love!
That is not how you learn self-love.
First, the people who are making this argument often contradict themselves by then saying that Sylvie is a different person. Again, make up your minds. Either Sylvie is the same person as Loki, or she’s not. You can’t have it both ways, and you can’t continue to change the narrative to fit whatever it is you want to shove down the audience’s throats.
Second, romantic love and self-love are two different things entirely. Loki isn’t feeling self-love with Sylvie, he’s feeling romantic love. That’s not learning self-love. That's narcissism, and it’s character regression in his case. He’s supposed to be evolving past being a self-centered, egotistical shitweasel, and falling in love with a variant of himself makes him, as Mobius put it, “a seismic narcissist”. It’s not character development.
Third, this argument tends to come in the same breath as saying that Loki is a narcissist so of course he would fall for a variant of himself. If Loki is a narcissist though, why would he need to learn self-love? Narcissists already love themselves, that is the very definition of the word. If Loki needs to learn self-love, that would imply that he actually hates himself, which is the opposite of narcissism. Again, the writers and the fans who make these arguments when they feel the need to defend this relationship need to make up their minds. Either he’s a narcissist and therefore already loves himself too much, or he hates himself and needs to learn to love himself. It’s once again changing the narrative to fill a plothole.
Fourth, the whole learning self-love and trust narrative is completely thrown out the window in Episode 6 when Sylvie decides to toy with Loki’s emotions, using his feelings for her against him by kissing him as a distraction so she could grab Kang’s temp pad and toss Loki back to the TVA. To Sylvie, her revenge was more important than the bond she had with him. The move basically set Loki’s progress back several steps. What little progress he made anyway.
TL:DR, is there hope for Season 2?
Whew, this went on for a while, didn’t it? Told you I had a lot to say.
As I have said, if you liked the first season of Loki and think I am completely full of shit, that’s fine and it’s your prerogative. More power to you.
But, and this is a huge but, that does not give you the right to harass and bully people who did not like it.
I have witnessed horrible things from both sides of the now split Loki fandom on social media. Harassment and even death threats towards the creators. Telling people who don’t like the Loki and Sylvie relationship that they need to drink bleach. Homophobic attacks. Gatekeeping.
There’s constructive criticism and sharing your opinions, and then there is...this.
Both sides need to chill.
Anyway.
Even though Kate Herron has left the show, Michael Waldron is still the showrunner and as such I am not altogether optimistic for Season 2. I would like to see more emphasis on Loki himself for that season. Yes, it’s a novel thought, wanting a show that is called Loki to actually be about Loki, but here we are.
I would like to see actual character development in Loki rather than the old “true love transforms bad boy and conquers all” trope. There is a reason Disney has started to abandon that trope in their animated movies. They’ve been getting dragged about it for decades.
If Sylvie must return, there needs to be some actual consistency surrounding her character. The show needs to decide if she is a Loki or not and stick with whichever one they decide. And seriously, no more romance. Frankly, after what she pulled in Episode 6, I will be severely disappointed if the writers have Loki crawling back to her. That would make him pathetic, and Loki deserves better.
Really, Loki does not need a romance, period. He’s too emotionally immature, he has a lot of character growth to go through, and a romance would do nothing but be a distraction and an impediment to that growth. Anyone who got married too young can confirm that it is important to learn more about yourself and figure yourself out before you even think of getting involved with another person, who should not be your whole world. The Loki and Sylvie romance was reminding me of Classic Disney in another not-good way in that the two of them, especially on Loki’s side, were starting to revolve around one another and that does not make for a healthy relationship. Again, turning Loki into a Disney Prince (or, seeing as how he’s supposed to be genderfluid, Princess). Stop it.
Again, the romance was a smokescreen. It was a distraction from just how thin the plot was. Please, for the love of G-d, give more focus to the actual plot.
Do some research and talk to some psychologists for healthy ways Loki can “learn self-love" and develop as a character. If Ragnarok Loki can do it without relying on a romance with a variant with himself, then surely TVA Loki can pull it off.
Speaking of talking to people, listen to the concerns of the trans and genderfluid fans. Listen, talk to them, maybe get a couple in the writer’s room. CIS people should not write genderfluid people, and this season is a good example of why.
Please remember that Loki is not an idiot. Yes, he has pulled some fast ones and hasn’t been the greatest planner, but he is not downright stupid like he was in season 1.
And...really that’s all I have. As I have said, this thesis really wasn’t about making suggestions to the creators because I seriously doubt they will ever even see this. This was more less me screaming into the void, venting because I was that upset about what I saw as character assassination happening to one of my favorite characters. Keeping all of this in was proving to be bad for my blood pressure.
I am attached to the character, have been for years. Loki is just one character in the MCU who I love, who I want to see done right. I had been looking forward to his solo series for a very long time, and the disappointment I felt was something that I just couldn’t keep in. I kept my mouth shut when they killed off Tony Stark for no reason other than that Ronnie Downey, Jr. didn't want to renew his contract. I didn’t say anything at the Russo Brothers’ “happy ending” for Steve Rogers, even though I feel it made no sense and is a massive plot hole.
What they did to Loki, however...I couldn’t keep silent.
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Okay. I’ve had enough. I’m gonna document what happened in unofficial The Boomtown Rats server on discord.
Before I start, I wanna say that I’ve done some messed up shit to some of these people. This was around a year ago, so I’m still learning and trying my hardest to be a better person. I’m not claiming to be innocent of ANYTHING except for some of the stuff I’m about to type here.
That being said, here we go.
Keep in mind, I do lack evidence since I was kicked before I could capture anything.
So. After a whole lot of shit, I had a psychotic episode that was really unrelated to the whole scenario. I was still in this server and I was convinced that I killed someone. I was apologizing and hoping I didn’t actually kill anybody.
Suddenly I glance at one of the member’s statuses and it said “Shut up white boy”. I made my status “What?” to see if they were talking to me. They then set theirs to “Yeah shut up white boy”. I asked “Who are you” in my psychotic state and they said “The guy that fucked your mom”.
A now ex-friend asked them about it and they proceeded to lie and say that they were talking to someone else and said “I’m psychotic too I would never” despite the literal conversation I saw them have with me through statuses.
This same member has been block evading me and sending anon hate to me and also sending anons to my friends, saying I’m an abuser. Keep in mind that this all was a year ago and they still stalk my url tags. I’m not expecting them to be over the issue when I hurt them, but the way they’re treating it is horrible. Either way, their actions aren’t facing any consequences. The people in the server act like they’ve done nothing wrong.
Back to the server, they decided the best course of action to someone having a psychotic breakdown was to ban them from the server. No one checked up on me and it was incredibly dangerous. They honestly showed that they didn’t give a shit.
People never took my side. These people just got away with it and I’m STILL hurting after a year has passed. I never got an apology. Every time I got angry about this, I got confronted and told I’m being a bad person. Some people excused it as “they didn’t understand what was happening”, which even if that was the case, that isn’t how you treat someone having an episode.
I’m not dropping any names. If you know the owner of the server, don’t bother them. It’s just not worth it at this point and might get people to come after me again.
I have a right to be upset. I have a right to talk about this. I have a right to be hurt. I was taunted and kicked aside while I was at my most vulnerable. Every day I get scared when I get an anon on my personal because I feel like it’s gonna be that one guy again sending me horrible shit, calling me a bad person.
If you read this far, thank you so much. Just don’t bother with this server. Don’t send them hate messages if you know them. I don’t condone harassment.
Anyway. Thanks for listening.
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I have a lot to say and not enough time to say it. It hurts, but ya’ll know what this is about so if you want my full fandom retrospective opinion thing guys, here.
I’ve been following Vivienne’s art and career since I found her on dA in 2009. I’ve basically grown up with her and have a wide range of opinions up and down her collective work. I must stress that I do not know her as a person and no matter how critical I get in my personal time if I somehow met her in real life or converse with her online again (like, back in the day we went back and forth. She was pretty nice to me), I’d be humble and congratulate her for her success.
Critique does not, EVER equate to attacking people.
But
the reason I don’t call myself a VivziePopVivzmind-fan is the exact same as to why I don’t like the proud use of ‘anti’. Let me try and explain -
The vast majority of Viv fans are just that: fans. Viv’s one of their favorite artists and they’re happy for her and obviously defensive when some mouth breather pops into their fan discussion calling her and all of them trash. Quite a lot of the Hazbin fans I know in my circle of friends are all pretty accepting and agree on the problematic notions and implications of her work.
HOWEVER, there’s a vocal minority in the VivziePop fandom that were and still are toxic. Their specific interest in Viv back in the day was toxic...and now that she’s moved on into a successful career I doubt they’ve gone away, considering the things I’ve heard. These people - they’d flood Viv’s comments sections and stuff with messages like they were talking to her when they weren’t and they’d unironically call her a god in a way that feels like gaslighting, ex: “I’ll NEVER be as good as you Viv! My art is just sooooo unpopular oh god you are incredible no one will ever like you as much as meeeee”. It made me uncomfortable. It made me not want to be around her because these people took Viv’s role in their lives so seriously and their demand for her attention...it struck a nerve.
These same fans have been around long enough to see actual shitlords - the likes of Kiwifarms and tapatalk wikis - come in and actually harass Viv. Viv’s been sent revenge porn by sick freaks who think they’re funny and believe she deserves it. No. In my non-name fan bystander opinion, Viv’s got some shit to work on, but no one deserves raperevenge porn. EVER. It was genuinely bad and yes Viv and her base have every reason to NOT TRUST these communities. Unfortunately, when these incidents happened, these particular fans took it upon themselves to gatekeep the fandom and act like Viv’s unofficial guard against any kind of decenting opinion of her, all without her say so.
((to the critics who will be all “but Viv or Faust said THIS to their fans-”, like I said, Viv’s far from perfect but regardless of how much she prolly wanted people to side with her I’m gonna guess that she didn’t want people sending transphobic death threats to DollCreep. Again, and this is coming from a bystander here, I have a feeling Viv knows about some of the toxicity but doesn’t know how/want to address it - which is a conversation all it’s own.))
This particular breed of VivziePop “fan” holds so much toxicity in her fandom(s). They aren’t the only cause, but they’re there. They feel entitled to her attention and her approval. They creep me out. Having spoken to other much-less critical admitted fans of Viv around me, these fans appear to creep everyone else out and put the rest of the fandom on edge. They’re gatekeepers. They’re creeps. Like the bronies and SU fans of yestertodayyears, they know harassment exists and that people have crossed the line - so they think any means is necessary to prevent that is automatically good. I could pile together all the incidents and folks who’ve had bad runs ins with this aftershock of Viv-obsession, but I do have a life of my own and this post is already stupid long so I’ll just list out the biggest examples and provide receipts when asked.
Critical blogs have gotten RAPE and death threats because they don’t like Viv’s art. HonestZoophobiaCriticisms, a blog I interracted with back in the day, def got one. Now Viv’s opinion of crit-blogs is that they’re “bad takes” but I can assure you she doesn’t want that shit being said on her behalf.
I’ve seen young artists get blacklisted from sites and forums cause they so much as post a redesign. Viv and co get told through the grapevine that someone’s making hatespeech and so preemptively block said person (prolly cause they’re in the middle of WORKING and can’t deal right now) only to find out after the fact that no, it was just a kid drawing their version of her characters. There’s serious miscommunication issues within the fandom about who’s ‘good’ or ‘bad’ and once you get the actual staff involved in this game of telephone you’re begging for trouble. The problem acknowledged, however, it’s souly from the “Viv never did anything wrong camp”. No word is said about how ugly the fandom is under the surface it’s all one type of person’s fault and not complicated’. Blah
I’ve only ever had ONE obsessive ‘fan’ who’d stalk me, mock me, and then redraw my art just to get attention from me. That shit fucked with my head. As a follower hundreds of miles away from Viv who’s agreed/disagreed with her through the years - I absolutely believe her when she says she hates ‘creeps’ and that she doesn’t want anyone in her fandom spreading hate on her behalf. It’s the one thing about her I’m POSITIVELY sure of. Whether she believes that said underlying harassment exists and/or is even a problem within her fandoms is anyone’s guess. That’s not what I’m here for. I’m here to write stupid blog entries like this, talk about fandoms and media and how they and the real world affect one another, and rb fan art I like. I’m cautiously optimistic fan with a side of salt.
Mixed opinions and critique within a fandom CAN and SHOULD exist. Hazbin Hotel has been greenlit by a studio! It has a product line of merchandise you buy. Helluva Boss is getting eight more episodes this coming year (yeeee:3yeeee). Two of Viv’s properties are now products. Nothing is immune from critique. And in critique you will find a lot of people who are not ‘nice’. Critique or analysis doesn’t have to be nice. There will be, in Viv’s words’ ‘bad takes’ on her writing. Maybe they will be actual CinemaSins-styled bad takes or maybe Viv is just mad that people don’t love and feel inspired by her characters the way she wants them to - it’s a fact she’s going to have to get used to.
((TBH, I’m pretty sure she’s already realized that criticism of all types need to exist. It’s just that, again, her and the SpindleHorse staff are kind of overwhelmed by all matter of takes and opinions coming their way they kinda can’t deal weeding out the fair ones from the assholes, so she lumps them all together.))
Shitposters, ironic fans, unironic fans, critical fans, just critics of Hazbin and Helluva CAN and WILL exist. They should exist and not feel threatened by the megafandom. There are people out there who are one step further and rightfully bothered by Hazbin/Helluva’s use of incorrect symbols, portrayal of certain topics, and the response by creators. These people have strong opinions and are actually disgusted by Viv. They deserve to exist too and should not be vilified because, like me, they’re commentary doesn’t consist of anything personal towards the people at Spindlehorse or the fans of her works. They can rant, they can be professional, they can be petty and they can be fair. But they will exist. You have to deal with it.
I am an ADD/OCD ridden autistic woman with serious anxiety issues who has no one to talk to half the time and so only HAS my fandom to communicate with. But that’s just it - it’s a fandom. A community. You have to learn to not think souly of yourself and of others in a community. A fandom doesn’t exist just for you or any one person. You have the right to be angry and defend or be offended. And it’s in the spirit of that that I ask, prrraaaaaay even, that I please
NOT BE CALLED AN “ANTI-ANTI” for not liking the moniker?!
I DON’T TO BE AN “ANTI”. Not ironically, not unironically. ‘Anti’ should be for politics and shit like pedophiles, necrophiles, nazis, serial killer stans, Trump, racists, antisemites, terfs, animal abusers, rapists, and antivaxxers. Anti should only come into critical media analysis when these ethical issues follow suit IN TO fandom discussion. ((EX: Anime and MLP proudly waving their cp and non-con into the public eye; Hazbin appropriating cultural symbols which are not satanic; Basically anything that concerns John K or Butch Hartman.))
If your DNI list unironically consists of the entirety of one fandom: CONGLATURATIONS! You have done the exact same thing these particular creepy Viv fans have done: monopolize the conversation. And yes, people I’m referring to, IT’S STILL A PROBLEM EVEN IF YOU’RE FIGHTING RACISM/SEXISM/HOMOTRANSPHOBIA.
There are hundreds of Vivziefans who ARE more critical, accepting of faults, interested in discussion and especially rewrite and redesign stuff who would LOVE to engage with you and give you a follow. There’s hundreds of people who no doubt agree with you!
But the thing I’ve seen these very proud AntiHazbinVivzieHelluvaWhatever blogs do is lash out at fans for continuing to like Viv and consume Viv’s art in a healthy way. What the actual fuck is your problem?
I get it. Say a crazy Hazbin fan gets on your case for even SUGGESTING Viv could be homophobic ((”SHE’SBIANDWORKSWITHGAYPPLblahablahblah”)). They get in your face, make some callouts, try to rile up support against you, leave disgusting harassment throughout your social media? Absolutely ban worthy. After that it’s perfectly understandable why you don’t want to engage with anything HHHBZPVivzierelated because you’re so fucking tired of being labeled an abuser or “just jealous” for having an opinion on a show you don’t like. I’m with you!
But,
A fan agrees that something in the canon is bad or that Viv did something they don’t like?
A fan likes your silly shitpost meme?
A fan asks if they can like Hazbin and follow you at the same time?
A fan does fan art of something you don’t like?
If your response to any of these ^^^ things is to get LOUD and accusatory, Vivsplain them about how they’re an absolutely awful person to ever question YOUR opinion, or just block them without a second thought? You’re a petty, vendictive shit and you also need to learn to let things go. I’m sorry but you do. As I already said, Viv’s work is a brand at this point, not just the work of a singular person. As such, there are gonna be mixed opinions and you can’t judge every single one of these people by what they like. You’re a shitty critic with a shitty attitude and yes that will demean the value of what you’re saying. This is bad because, if you’re trying to point out how Angel Dust’s abuse IS handled terribly; gay rep in Viv’s work is weak and terrible; the show appropriates closed practices; the fandom makes excuses for predatory artists and creepy behavior and individuals who have sketchy pasts - I’M WITH YOU. WE NEED TO BE TALKING ABOUT THIS SHIT. JUST BECAUSE THESE ARE ADULT CARTOONS SET IN HELL MEANS THERE SHOULD BE ANYTHING CLOSE TO 2013 PONY-TUMBLR. <<<---- this shit is as important to me as it is to you and I really don’t like being called an abuser or apologist for saying “hey maybe blowing up at ppl for the shows they like ISN’T the way to go about this”.
But I have, just like the good old days of 2015 Zoophobia of yore, been blocked because I admit to being tired of ‘Anti’ being equated to ‘critical’. Same with hater.
Critical DOES NOT = Anti+Hater. I’m fucking tired of people saying it does and I’m tired of people taking up the term as some weird form of fandom reappropriation. It’s stupid.
Tl;dr: Once upon a time, I was in a budding fandom for something I liked made by an indie artist I watched on dA. I wanted to be a bigger fan than I was already, but was told by toxic people within said fandom that I couldn’t be part of it for reasons they’d made up in their head about my ‘motives’ against Viv. My admiration for Viv or what I liked about Zoophobia didn’t matter because I thought the story was really rushed and people weren’t being truthful with how they really felt about it - ergo, I HAD TO GO.
Flash forward 8 years later- My opinion of Viv’s body of work has changed but I still find myself in love with her style and some of her characters. I want to be on a forum or service that gives a healthy look at the problems there are with this series and fandom...and I’m met repeatedly by petty bs where people are again at each other’s throats. And yes, I do think it’s causing more harm than good especially when you insist there’s a “x person shouldn’t be trusted” mentality when fighting actual fucking racist, xenophobic, predatory bullshit.
#vivziepop#vivziepop critical#vivziepop drama#hazbin hotel#hazbin critical#hazbin hotel critical#critical hazbin hotel#anti anti#antis#anti hazbin hotel#cause I want both sides of this debaucle to see this and I'm tired#K?
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The Continued Targeted Harassment Campaign from the Troll Mundo De Bee, aka Debtoons, Aka Dedehbee
I'm sure this particular person I'm thinking of who recently sent me some VERY unkind guest reviews on my "The Pigshit Troll" tale on FF.Net will find out about this. I didn't WANT to talk about them anymore but then they kept sending more and more vitriolic reviews. Not just to me, but to my friends.
See, here’s some of the things they said along with accusing me of trolling their fic, which I didn't, my critique was that their story seemed to be overlooking the fact Zim had done the mass slaughter of innocent humans and enslavement on top of that, and was Dib and Prof. Membrane hostage and can kill them at any time...all to make Gaz love him.
So there's an inherently abusive power dynamic. But this person who I...at FIRST...was reluctant to name disregarded these very real issues I brought up and just told me, and I quote, "Go away, then. This story is happening whether you want it or not. :/" This happened months ago. In fact, I brought attention to what they said back in OCTOBER on my DA account. So now you’re getting an idea of what they’re like. In response to a reasonable critique about problematic undertones, they just basically told me to get lost, then blocked me before I could respond to that.
I tried to reach out to her friends after she complained about my review, and then she got mad about my "Jeremy" story, seemingly thinking that because I did a story about dark subject matter, I was being a hypocrite for complaining about what Zim did.
Uh...that’s NOT HOW IT WORKS.
The issue was the story wasn't addressing what Zim did as bad, my story made it REAL DAMN CLEAR what Jeremy had done was a tragedy and horrible, and that what he'd been through WAS VERY BAD.
But YOU? YOU didn't do that in your story, it almost came off like you were putting Gaz in Stockholm Syndrome and going a kind of "Twilight" route of sort of glorifying a very problematic relationship. Now, I didn’t SAY specifically that in my review, do I actually think that what’s happening IS Stockholm Syndrome or exactly LIKE Twilight was, but it’s problematic in a SIMILAR VEIN. And THAT was my problem. Not the dark subject matter, but you not caring about the implications...at least, that's how it looked to me. Or at the very least, not, in-story, treating Zim like what he'd done was wrong when it was.
Anyway, that was months ago. I had basically forgotten about them until just I got these three anonymous guest reviews. I'm guessing that because they blocked me, they had to do it that way, they don't want to unblock me to leave a normal review. The reason why I'm pretty sure it's them is because they said, in their review, AND I QUOTE...
"And if my story had ANY grammar/spelling mistakes, that must be because I'm... not from U.S.? And don't speak English fluently? As a matter of fact, if you speak "only" intermediate English in my country (like I do), that's already one hell of an accomplishment. That's already getting xenophobic, ok?"
Okay one, me criticizing spelling errors isn't xenophobia, how am I supposed to know you're from another country unless I actually go to your webpage or the like, and I'm not going to see that if I'm just replying to a review. So that's one reason I think it's her.
Another is that she wrote, in her third reply, from "Opinadora (Guest)". Since that's Portuguese, and it happens to be the most spoken language (based on my Google research) in the home country this person says she's from on her homepage, i was damn sure it was her. She saw my Pigshit Troll story, thought it was about her even though the story was really more about addressing the...well, the actual, real life Pigshit Troll going around FF.Net, while also doing a critique both of common tropes in typical Zim story fare and also critiquing the common critique. It was me addressing issues with my own stories just as much, with Gaz forcing Dib to realize his own flaws. It wasn't really about this person who happens to be from Brazil (if her page is to be believed).
They also said stuff like "I would say you draw like a 12 years old, but that would be a compliment, 'cause when I was 12, I used to draw at least three times as better than you" and "Also:I forgot, but if we're talking s*** about each other's works: not only you draw like a 8 years old, but the titles to your stories are also so f*** creepy that they make me nauseous even before reading the first chapter".
So "Frost" is creepy? I can get why "The Pod People Invasion" is creepy, but a title like "Don't Read This Book" isn't inherently creepy. "Soft Hands" isn't. You're kinda just cherry picking.
I made this journal pot on DA because she had decided to keep this "thing" going on going by leaving those guest reviews and assuming the story of “The Pigshit Troll” was about her, and she was just a total jerk about it. I had left her alone for weeks, MONTHS even until she popped up making those guest reviews again. And then she wrote "P.S.S.: If you give my name out to anyone who has nothing to do with this, and tell them to hunt me down, like you did to my watchers (which, BTW, wouldn't surprise me if you did), that just proves you're indeed a troll, and no better than PigShit here, okay? ".
I was trying to be civil... despite how INCREDIBLY PISSED I am at you. And she also kept calling me a religious fanatic and other crap to her friends. I'm not, a simple look at my journals on DA or my posts here would prove that, so it amazes me that you couldn't be bothered to do research on me yet you expect me to instantly know you're from Brazil. So I find it interesting you expected me to look you up and find out things about you so I wouldn't leave a review you could find objectionable...but you couldn't be bothered to do any research about me. I mean, you seem very liberal, concerned about LGBTQ rights, worried about the deforestation in Brazil, those are big issues. And I sympathize also with having a fascistic leader in charge. You got Bolsanaro, we have Trump. I get how it feels.
That doesn't excuse how you behaved towards me. I'd stopped reviewing your stories, you're the one who brought all this back by reviewing mine. So if you want to talk, unblock me on FF.Net or here, and let's talk this out like adults. If you've got a problem with me, actually outright say it, don't leave it in a guest review.
Now, if she’d said "Look, ZAGR is just what I'm into, it's just a fetish of mine", then fine! FINE. She should have just SAID that to me. But don't just dismiss the moral questions I had by going "Don't like don't read". Because that's a fallacy. A story can start out great, but turn bad. Or start out bad, but turn better. And how am I supposed to know if it'll do either if I don't keep reading? Take, for example, Star Wars's sequel series. Started great! Amazing!...ended poorly. Star Wars prequels! Started bad! But the ending was pretty darn good! So don't just go "don't like, don't read/watch", because that's not a real, actual good argument.
I had hoped, writing all this, she’d actually try and reach out. Or she’d stop.
But she didn’t. Let me quote what she sent to me next. "I was only mad because you plain trolled me on your review. Did you ever heard of "common sense" or "constructive criticism"?"
Which my critique was.
It was a critique of the character behavior of the main characters, not trolling. Bringing up the fact that Zim had taken Gaz's family hostage and could kill them at any time, but we were supposed to overlook that is a perfectly reasonable critique.
But instead of responding normally, you just leave another guest review. I was willing to talk to you normally and to work things out fairly, but you keep being a jerk. Everything you've said hasn't been an actual, reasonable, fair criticism of any of my stories. It's just been 'ad hominem'.
What IS ad hominem? That’s when you don't address the SUBSTANCE of someone's argument, you just attack the person arguing. Like if someone says "I think your story is glorifying abusive, unhealthy relationships" and you go "Yeah but you're into the inflation fetish so there"! That doesn't actually address the problem brought up about your story, it's just you attacking the other person. And she was doing that.
For weeks I was nice enough to not bring up your name, but I said “if you keep it up, I’ll reveal your screen name because you're the one being unreasonable now by keeping this going, when I was willing to let sleeping dogs lie.”
Her response?
“Opinadora:I find it funny how you know you can't strike me back, because you know that I'm ten times more talented than you and that you're just jealous of me... u.u I'm not one to talk down on other artist's work, but that's what you get for being a snob. You're no better than me and you know it. In fact, you're no better than ANYONE, and I say that because you really are worthless. Yet you like to act superior and talk down on everyone to have some fun or... IDK. People like you shouldn't even be called "people". You're just psychos.”
She was engaging in the very behavior she said I was doing. I don’t get how she functions like this. This was getting insane.
BUT WAIT! THERE’S MORE!
She posted a of blog entry and I'll quote what they said.
"I've been contacting a troll of mine" Anonymously, you did it via guest reviews on my story, you started all this again after I left you alone for months with three meanspirited reviews insulting me and my work when I'd been leaving you alone. And yeah, I responded by making the "fight" public, you refused to speak to me normally. I was willing to speak with you normally through notes or PMs on FF.Net or DA, you were the one who ignored that and kept insulting me in guest reviews because you still have me blocked.
"He's not being civil enough to keep anyone anonymous." I haven't used either your real name (which I don't know) or your screen name. So this is just a lie.
"He's going after my watchers to complain about me" I contacted ONE of your watchers who I knew that also made a story in which an entire chapter was deliberately invoked to insult me because an obvious villain character with my SCREEN NAME was used as an easy enemy for Zim to blow up. I contacted them to say "Can you please tell your friend to stop". Here's the full text, basically. "I’m sorry I keep sending these messages to you, the only reason I decided to note you to begin with was because your friend (NAME REDACTED) sent me three anonymous guest reviews, and called me a bunch of names like “douchebag” while insulting my art at the same time. I was willing to ignore her until she sent not one but THREE meanspirited shots at me. And I can’t reach her, so..."
So it wasn't "your watchers" plural, it was ONE watcher whom I knew you knew because I couldn't find any other way to contact you, because, again, you childishly blocked me and refused my olive branch.
"He should have enough common sense to know that his issue is with ME and none other." But you refuse to let me talk to you openly. On top of that, you're the one who blocked me, not the other way around.
"He's such a lunatic he said he would give out my REAL NAME, if he knew. O.Ò" I never actually said that, I was clearly referring to your screen name. "I was nice enough to not bring up your name, but if you keep it up, I WILL use your screen name, because you're the one being unreasonable now by keeping this going, when I was willing to let sleeping dogs lie. " So now you're just lying. Plain and simple.
I would say you should be ashamed of yourself, but it appears you don't understand shame. I know some people say "don't feed the trolls" but that doesn't always work. Sometimes shining a light on them is the only thing that does. And I swore to publish every word they've said to me if they kept doing meanspirited guest reviews done solely to insult me.
What was their response to THIS? Well, they called me a retard.
"Seu retardado:It isn't Stockholm syndrome...? And I KNOW that nobody will believe you 'cause you're just using ANONYMOUS reviews against me. Now, you've been quoting me on your tweets nonstop even after I blocked you. Just so you know, I ALSO reported you for abuse multiple times."
"But go ahead. Do you really believe that they'll take your side of the story? I only gave out your name to warn my watchers about you ONCE, but you just keep quoting me when I blocked you, so we'll see what happens THEN."
"VSF:Wow... You must REALLY be retarded. And here I was just saying that to insult you. O.Ò But I'm not apologizing for that when you didn't apologize for flaming my story, attacking my watchers, nor even trying to act superior, when... You're not. O.Ò And still you want to believe that you're a better artist than me. I should be laughing about that. 9.9 Seriously, what did you take? "
I’D HAD ENOUGH. Because they didn’t JUST call me all these names. They started going after fellow artists on FF.NET and friends of mine and leaving insulting guest reviews too. So...
What’s their name? I dunno their real name. But their screen name is Mundo De Bee. AKA Debtoonz AKA Dedehbee.
This is their page.
https://www.deviantart.com/mundo-de-bee
This is their Twitter. Both normal AND NSFW
https://twitter.com/Bee_Zorra
https://twitter.com/Bee_Zorra_Total
Their current FF.Net account (or at least I BELIEVE it is) https://www.fanfiction.net/u/8252861/Debtoons
And their instagram. https://www.instagram.com/bee.zorra/
They keep leaving really nasty reviews on my work. You can find some of their “samples” here. https://www.fanfiction.net/r/13241492/0/1/
Here's what they've also said.
And this:
They also said this on a friend's story in an anonymous review.
""Debtoons chapter 1 . 3h ago
You think Shaeril McBozo did all this? You're mistaken troglodytes. Shaeril McBrown is a stand by, she works for me, doesn't have a choice in the matter. Pigshit is an urban legend, he works for me. You're all such fools, you have yet to realize there is more to come, much more, and I will bring you all down. I have not forgotten what you all have done. I'm always watching, you're all my pawns, the game is mine, and I play to win. La Cefiera Queen Bee AKA Debtoons Also, stop copying my ZAGR ships, yours suck was."
I've tried to ignore her. But this has now been going on for MONTHS. I am done trying to be NICE, and trying to hold back. So I’m exposing her for what she is. She’s a bully. A hypocrite. A troll. She NEVER ACTUALLY RESPONDED to any of my actual problems about her story, instead just DEFLECTING and misrepresenting my points, then attacking the misrepresentations.
I wasn’t even sure, at first, it was her Even after getting another anonymous review from someone who said "I already know your name. Shaeril and little Debbie told me. Hi I'm Striberz. Actually, I'm anyone I want to be, but let's go with Striberz for now. Good to meet you b***!"
Little Debbie. Debtoonz.
She also sent THIS anonymous review to me.
The way the review is written, the style, the little details, bringing up "Oompa Loompa" and the like and other little things that I never brought up publicly...this is why I believe Mundo De Bee, aka Debtoonz, is leaving me targeted harassment reviews.
But even THEN. After ALL THIS. My online friends suggested hold on, slow down. One of them said "I'll ask her about this". To try and get her side of the story. MAYBE it wasn't her. MAYBE it was just someone posing as her and trying to emulate how she talked. Months later, Mundo had written another story called 'Something called love', another ZAGR and DATR story. In the story, Zim was 20 years old, but Gaz was only 16. A friend of mine reviewed the story, making mention of the age gap and said 'Wait, that's illegal'.
It was mostly a joke review but in all of five minutes, Mundo furiously spouted off not one, not two, but THREE pissed off PMs, calling my friend “Some Dude Who Likes To Write” on FF.Net retarded and the review retarded. Pretty horrible. Nevertheless, Some Dude wanted to be diplomatic, even after Mundo left a super nasty review of my story. Theyw went to her Deviantart and asked if she left that revieand she said 'No', but the second they brought up the 'Oompa Lumpa' insult, a comment that Mundo had used directly to me in a note, well...she hid the comment and then ignored the other ones that were left and blocked Some Dude, pretty much indicting herself.
Then, several weeks later, guess who leaves a review in which she accuses Some Dude of being a xenophobe, transphobe, misogynist and homophobe? Well, Some Dude knows someone who knows Mundo. They ask to talk. She PM’s them, she asks "What do you want to accuse me of now”. Some Dude says he’s not accusing her of anything, they just don’t like being called a bigot. Her response was to just deny leaving that review...and then to block them AGAIN. Then we see a series of dozens of insult reviews, false accusations against myself, Zim’sMostLoyalServant and Some Dude along with others, all being attacked by her. She also evidently admitted to Some Dude that if she came across any review Nick and I left, even if it was positive, she would report it and tell the admins we sent the authors death threats. Which would be a LIE.
And so...that’s what happened. Now you all know the truth. This woman from, I assume, Brazil, has been harassing me for quite a while. Me AND my friends.
All this...because I wrote a bad review of her story asking why the story was glossing over Zim's cruel behavior and how much the story seemed to be like "Twilight" in a problematic way. I could have overlooked Zim falling in love with Gaz easily. My issue was why the story was overlooking his blatantly evil mass murder/blackmailing stuff and not acting like these were bad things at all.
Her literal response was, and I again, I quote from her directly, "Go away, then. This story is happening whether you want it or not. :/" So no actual response as to why the story wasn't addressing the elephant in the room. Just that...and then blocking me when I tried to reply.
I call that "cowardly".
She's always responded like that. She never unblocked me, she just sent nasty guest reviews to me instead of reaching out to me directly on DA, or Twitter, or a variety of other methods. It can never be her directly putting her name on anything because she didn't have the courage to do that.
She's a coward, she's a bully, she's a troll, and she's a hypocrite, doing all the things she's accused me of. What projection. How disgusting.
When I have an issue with a story, you know what my issue usually is? A moral one. And I'll say things like "This looks like domestic abuse, why are you acting like it's a you-go-girl moment for Gaz" or "Why is the fact Zim caused millions of deaths just casually overlooked".
It's not "YOU SUCK!" or lots of swears or insults or all caps. Cuz that sort of thing IS a flame. That IS a troll.
Saying things like "Why is the story acting like this character is a badass when their behavior's morally repulsive" isn't a flame. Or being a troll.
Anyway, now you all know. Mundo de Bee, Debtoonz, La Cefiera Queen Bee, Dedehbee , whatever you wanna be called, this is what she’s like.
SHAME. ON. YOU.
#Debtoonz#debtoons#Mundo de Bee#La Cefiera Queen Bee#fanfiction#fanfic#fanfiction net#fanfiction.net#troll#trolling#Dedehbee#call out#call out post#Invader Zim#ZADR
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Truth Comes to Light
Since I was a teenager, I was subjected to abuse by men who manipulated me to trust them.
*This is not an “anti-men” spew/blog. There are women involved, too. But the fact is, these men hurt me, manipulated me, gaslit me, groomed me, and then slandered my reputation with no consequences because no one gave a fuck about that kind of thing 10 years ago. I have spoken with justice departments for the past abuse, I was told I could file a report and have it “on hand” if these people continue to bother me/slander me/gangstalk me. I deleted the evidence, because when I tried to make police reports when these incidents first happened, I was blown off, laughed at, and ignored, by people who are suppose to protect teenagers from predatory adults, and trauma in general. I deleted the evidence because i got sick of being reminded of the pain...if I had hindsight and knew these people would continue to torment me, I would’ve kept it. Never delete anything. And to the 14-15 year olds out there thinking they’re special for talking to an older man...he is using you, he will leave you broken, with no care for you. Do not fall for the grooming and manipulation.
I will not be naming names. For the sole purpose of
1. These people will come across this blog, and know its about them.
2. I am not speaking to them, I am speaking to their souls...if there is any left present.
3. I do not want to fuel their fire. They can feel free to get mad about this, and expose themselves. They will not receive anymore of my energy.
4. If something happens to me, this is public information. The proper Justice Departments know the names of these people. I do not need the internet to go after them.
5. I am not out to ruin their lives. All I ask is they own up to what they’ve done/are doing TO THEMSELVES and STOP doing it. They are ruining their own lives just fine, they are miserable which is why they harass me and continue to try and steal my energy and tear my life down. These people have left their friends to die of ODs, they do not want to be exposed, it is their greatest fear.
When I was 15 years old, I met a guy at a local show through friends. He was pretty popular amongst the ladies, but I wasn’t into him like that. I saw him as a big brother, and he even agreed. One day he offered me to hangout, I accepted. When we got to his house, he kissed me and I didn’t really know how to react. Then it turned into making out, which turned into him fingering me. It all happened very quickly. I told him I was uncomfortable, and he knew I am a virgin and I don’t want my first time to be like this. He didn’t believe me. He over-powered me, bent me over, and raped me. He only stopped when he saw blood, and realized what he’d done. This man threatened my life if I went to the police. He was 20. I was 15. Of course I believed him. This man now has a wife and a child. I wish I had gone to the police, and still regret it to this day. I did confront this man before I got off social media. He told me some man I literally never met, told him that he took my virginity. I quickly realized this man I had never met was a scapegoat for his actions. When I called him out on it, he blocked me. I never told anyone about this, besides recently told a trusted friend, and then contacted authorities to see if there was anything that could be done/if evidence could be salvaged. You know who you are. Admit what you did. And stop slandering me. YOU made the choice to do what you did. I told you to STOP, NO, STOP, NO, I AM A VIRGIN, STOP.
Later in the year, I met a senior who went to my school. He was new, and came from another state. I hungout with older people most of the time, so we ended up chatting. I had a really big crush on him. He was 19 years old. We were in the same friend group on some occasions, and ended up clicking and exchanging numbers at one point. He told me he liked me, and wanted to be with me “but he could go to prison”. We did exchange photos during that time. 3 months before I turned 16, we began officially dating, or so I thought. It turns out, this man never told anyone we dated. When I made it public on my myspace page(lmfao) His Ex girlfriend flipped out on both me, and him, and threatened to send him to jail. He then told me we could “date in secret”...he was hooking up with girls his age the whole time. While making me out to look like a crazy, obsessed “little girl”. Well, you slept with me. You admitted to me that you used me. You even made a tumblr post about me how I was like a “dead fish in bed” because I had told all the girls you fucked behind my back what you were doing to me. I took this guy to New York...I never held his age over his head...I never wanted to cause him any pain. Literally, all I had for this man was “love”, really a stupid girl crush, but at the time it was my perception of “love”. It wasn’t until he made the tumblr post, that I threatened to go to the police, and its because I was horrified he’d made our sexual acts public...let alone sexual actions with a minor. This man then guilt tripped me into how his “life would be ruined” if I were to go to the police. Recently, his friends..who I didn’t know at first were his friends...started drama on the internet..they then doxxed my home address and phone number and called me threatening me under the false guise of one of their boyfriends being a police officer, when he is not (thats a felony btw...oof) If you are reading this, please leave me alone. You caused me a lot of trauma when I realized the truth about “us”, you caused me a lot of trauma when you made that tumblr post about me and made me out to look like a whore. I “loved” you, in a stupid teenager way. You knew I was struggling with God, you knew I was struggling with my family members death, and you sunk your claws into me, and to this day refuse to admit to others what you have done to me, hence your friends targeting and harassing me. You, are a sick coward. I don’t even want you to admit anything, at this point. I just want you to fuck off and eventually burn in Hell like you’ve always gloated about doing. Also seems like your literal, self-proclaimed, witch wife is sucking out the remnants of your soul, anyways. I hope this paragraph gives you a panic attack, karmas a bitch.
When I was 16, one of my friends joined a local band. I did date the one member for about 2 weeks, but he lived in a different state and we never actually hungout, so because of this we broke up. I still saw them at local shows, and my friend was still in the band. I assumed we were all friends/acquaintances, whatever. One day around 5-6PM, the one guy texts me and invites me out to a local show, he is covering for the drummer in his friends band. He assured me everyone else would be there, and he could give me a ride home. Once I arrived, he told me their set was over and tossed his bracelet on to the ground, and told me to “pick it up if I wanted to get in for free”. I asked him if that was a joke, and he said no. Things got very awkward, and tense..and they told me they wanted to get going. They then tell me, if I want a ride home, I would have to give them both blowjobs. I thought it was a joke. Until they actually left me there. Two weeks later, the one guy names a song after me, and told everyone it was about me. This song, was not written about me and was written about the lead singers ex girlfriend of the other band. I want to thank the vocalist for owning up to the truth, as he thought it was disgusting, too. The drummer, gave it a malicious name intertwining with mine as retaliation of me rejecting him. The bands involved in this were _______ pending legal consequences* I am also speaking to a lawyer about suing for slander, sexual harassment, endangerment of a minor (the one guy was 18), and emotional/mental abuse. If you guys are reading this, enjoy being extradited to my state for court. Once/If that is settled I will be posting their full names and court documents. If you are reading this, and want to avoid court, admit to what you have done. I will not hold it over your head in a legal manner. I will accept your apology, as long as you make it public like you made my slander and harassment and trauma, I had to relive that night everytime someone mentioned that band title. You two, hurt me that night. You knowingly lured me out to a show, in attempts to get sexual favors from me so I could get a ride home. The friends I met with after you left me for saying No, have also written statements against you both. The choice is yours.
I will stop here for tonight. For the next story is a long, complicated rollercoaster.
To give you a summary:
I met this man in 9th grade, and we were on & off from my sophomore year until late 2016, when I finally left him for becoming physically abusive. It is a long, long story. To this day, he attempts to torment me, and literally gang stalks me through his groupies, who are mostly women (jezebels)
Read my stories. Share them. Learn from them. Don’t do what I did. If you ever come across people like this, cut them off with no explanation. These people will gaslight you, manipulate you, torment you, feed you drugs, and try and drive you to suicide. They will do everything they possibly can to not be exposed once you see who they truly are,so don’t let them know you know, and just quietly walk away.
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I genuinely don’t think the problem is as deep as people are seeing it as, with that whole resource blog and vent blog drama. I was there when it began, and it started because someone sent a submission that was recognizable enough to trace to that resource blog, who ended up calling themself out, and then a bunch of people dogpiling them, and then it turned into the 2021 edition of good old tumblr wank, mocking sockpuppets included. I essentially watched a bunch of 30 year olds call each other doodooheads like a couple kids on the playground, but at least kids forgive and forget after a day or two.
That’s probably why they’re avoiding this situation like the plague. The first time a submission went through about that resource blog, it made people feud like the Montagues and Capulets. Obviously they don’t wanna risk fueling that type of drama again. If it’s true that they aren’t letting these submissions through and it isn’t tied to reasons like tumblr eating the ask, then it’s probably because they don’t wanna be involved in this drama anymore. And I don’t blame them, because honestly, even as an observer I’m tired of seeing it, I can’t imagine how exhausting it must be for y’all who are actually involved. Geez. Who even has the energy for this much drama anyway? I’m tired just getting outta bed.
Sorry, Anon, I really had to!
Anyway, I'm sorry it took forever to get to your message, not only did I need a break from this, I needed to space out things related to it, it had taken over the blog. I appreciate that, despite how over it all you are, you were polite about how you feel. I know that is not always easy, and I do really appreciate it!
I hope that you don't feel I am being hostile to you about anything I say, it isn't meant that way. Differences of opinion, when not expressed hatefully, are always welcome here. I'm just going to try to express some of this situation from another perspective, and full disclosure, I'm pretty pissed off about it whether or not I actively want to be. This did impact my hobby, it did hurt people I care about, and I cannot believe such an unnecessary act lead to shit that is still going on.
On the first point...most things aren't as deep as we're given to feel they are after we've been made to feel incredibly unsafe, targeted, repeatedly let down and lied to, and experienced an astronomical level of sketchy behavior out of muns in a position that one is supposed to have some minor level of responsibility (as well as decent comportment) within. So, maybe it isn't that deep, but at this point, I very much cannot blame people for their concerns and suspicions.
And it was incredibly sketchy. CoaR, I'm just going to say it, everyone knows of which blog we're speaking at this point, did all of the following, breaking their own rules for moderation repeatedly:
allowed an actual, openly stated, callout blog to interact with their posts
allowed a meme blog to use their posts for the point of off-blog drama mongering, callouts, and outing themselves
would not moderate this situation as stated in their rules, when they've a bit of nasty record in the not too distant past of mass-blocking for far less and far more questionable reasons
did bother to post about how they weren't getting involved, as though this did not break multiple rules and absolutely is one's problem if it is your vent blog someone is using to create and foster bullying - simply giving the bizarre statement that blocking won't help anyone, when that isn't the point at all lol the point is being intolerant of people using your blog, that has to operate on a basis of being as safe a place as possible for venting (which is drama), this is about a stance and blog security, not being anyone's parent
just as weirdly vaguely threatening everyone first with all the mods "watching," because that's not actually implying an Orwellian parental role no one asked for, then with Sky once again misunderstanding the difference between being a " disciplinarian" and an ass
consistent lack of transparency on all counts
and then, yeah, there is the choice of publishing submissions/rebuttals combined with all of this and those submissions/rebuttals being what they are - not all related to "the drama," or in violation of the rules either, but the apparent willingness to publish them from one side of "the drama" there for a bit
I cannot blame people for feeling like all of this combined is a legitimately sketchy situation. One in which they've already, again, been made to feel unsafe within because COAR was used as a list for callouts.
When people see someone like Raven getting wildly different treatment by not being so much as warned, they're going to feel suspicion about the mod(s). It makes it so much worse that they chose to make the statements they did instead of a transparent, reasonable one like, "We apologize that CoaR was used the way it was, we should have blocked the callouts blog right away, but didn't. To reiterate the rules we've had in place for years, this blog is never to be used for callouts or taking bullying off-blog. Due to how widespread the problem has become, we will not be publishing anything related to it any longer. Submissions will be deleted so we can begin putting this behind us."
Acknowledge fault, apologize for it, say what you're doing to mitigate it now. That's it. Don't actively make it worse!
About the submissions...I know I'm alone in having tested that out. It isn't limited to things that either break the rules or are related to the issue. It's very select topics that are a bit uncomfortably aligned with the bias displayed, and from very select blogs. That's a problem. It's not selectively publishing based on drama-avoidance or rules, what CoaR has always done and no one here is taking an issue with.
I have 0 interest in things like trackers, they're far too easy/tempting to use maliciously for most people, and at the very best, they foster an environment of paranoia. What I know about them comes from really minimal personal experience (I wanted to see what posts people were most interested in on another blog, but it felt creepy with the amount of information I had, so I dropped that very fast) and what mutuals who use them have told me/questions they've answered.
So, is it possible the mod(s) is selectively deleting submissions from blogs they feel are a problem? Yes, it is totally possible. Do I know that for a fact? No, I totally do not. My point is that this is exactly the sort of paranoia that takes off when too many suspicious things happen back to back. You begin seeking the answers you are not getting, and you're seeking them because every day for a month or two, your experience logging in has been one of what the fresh hell. It's a need to insulate yourself from further exposure to harassment.
It's a very simple formula: act sketchy, people look at you like you're sketchy.
And I'm not going to condemn anyone for that.
I will also say that, unless several people deleted their comments or have me blocked in multiple places they somehow know of and take issue with, I did not see what you are describing when I read over the total explosion that happened...what, like a month, two months ago at this point? It was very fresh at the time.
What I saw was someone having submitted about a meme blog screenshotting their mutual's rules. Raven going off about it in a reblog. Two commentators trying to discuss the issue and finally, just saying they weren't surprised what meme blog it was once Raven outted themselves like a fully hinged individual interested in following CoaR's rules.
One of those s commentators is a friend, the mun whose rules were in the posts is a friend. I've never been anything but transparent about that. I'm also familiar with some of the other parties who ended up going on hiatus, but only from discussions on the vent blog over the years. So, yes, I do have personal investment here, and I do not feel like any of those people telling Raven and the callout blog they were at least involved with that their behavior was bullshit can be equated to immature shit slinging. There were even two muns who repeatedly tried to have a civil conversation with Raven, specifically, and for their efforts, got some of the most wildly juvenile treatment.
The worst things I saw came from hate anons and the callout blog.
The people receiving that treatment were largely driven off tumblr. For a time, forever, it differs with all of them. So, I feel like saying that about the thirty-year-olds thing is a little off. I'm not trying to be shitty, Anon, but the muns who tried to address Raven's bullshit were all of that age range. They're definitely continuing the drama, they're not here. They can't feel comfortable enough to be on their own blogs still.
I also am required ethically to say that we all really need to stop with throwing around ages like this. Again, I'm not trying to be hostile to you, Anon. I've been trying to show other people's perspective in this (it doesn't matter if you agree or not, I just think it's important to understanding, stopping, and prevent problems to have a fuller perspective that we often lack because we are incredibly tired of whatever is going on, and you're right, we are all really damn tired and also Tired), and as it is an advice blog, I try to address problems here. The pervasive ageism in the tumblr RPC is a problem.
It's a problem that gets discussed when it involves adults not wanting to interact with minors and, as I've seen it put several times, "treating them like the plague." There are a billion "conversations" and complaints about that, but there aren't many at all when it comes to the RPC's bizarre ideas about what age constitutes an adult (you're an actual child until around 23, you're ancient and need to die already, you pedo, at 26) and what being an adult actually is.
You do not turn thirty and lose your hobbies. You also do not turn thirty and become an ultra-mature adult, no leveling up into arcane Adult Knowledge and Behavior unlocks when you wake up on your thirtieth birthday. Between the ages of 17 and 27, you go through so many rapid changes in your cognition, but it levels off considerably after that. You're largely the same person at 32 as you were at 27, and you cannot say that about being...17 and 20, 22 and 25. It begins to take longer to see changes in who you are, those changes are less extreme - your personality, preferences, and viewpoints remain largely the same, they just refine a little here and there.
There is no line at which people "should" stop engaging in any hobby, and it's incredibly gross that the RPC seems to think anyone out of college-age should have no interests, let alone passionate ones, outside of going to work, having a family, and paying bills. That's a bit horrifyingly 1950's isn't it? It's also really misogynistic, considering that the primary base of the RPC is female or afab. When you deal in this, you're literally telling thirty-year-old people with uteruses that they should have no interests outside of birthing children and caring for them.
This isn't what you were doing, Anon, but it's part of the tumorous growth of this ideology that we casually throw around things like "a bunch of 30-year-olds" to make a point. We've seriously got to stop doing that, it isn't a message that most of us would agree with. There are other ways of saying "I think these people should behave more maturely since they're adults."
If I said something like, "well, they were just in their mid-twenties lol what do you expect?" I'd get hate anons, pants would be shat in, and more importantly, it would be wrong. That needs to work both ways, this isn't a separate issue.
An issue that repeatedly comes down to the absurdity of finding differences and drawing lines into cages around people in an environment in which we have the freedom to be more equal than in offline reality. We're all just people here, all just writing and interacting and loving characters. That's all we need to be, and all we need to be judged on is our behavior.
I'm sorry that anyone behaved in a grossly inappropriate manner during any and all of this. It was a heated thing that came to involve too many people and too much harassment, and those are factors that will always see people behaving in ways they would not normally engage in.
And like I said, you don't become some wise master of maturity at thirty! There is a problem mun I'm currently dealing with on another blog that is my age who is one of the most immature people I have ever run into. I have mutuals and friends in the early to mid-twenties who I'm confident weren't as childish as this mun when they were literal children. So, do people thirty and over behave in a seriously unbecoming, childish as hell manner? Yes, they so do! Whether it should be this way or not, you can't expect everyone to be at the same maturity level psychologically at any given age. To me, that just says that I shouldn't age-type people negatively. It isn't relevant where their behavior is.
Otherwise, I'm holding people at some nebulous age over thirty to higher expectations than other equally adult-range people. It isn't acceptable for anyone to behave in the ways I witnessed and was subjected to. It's not even acceptable in teenagers, it's just more understandable (not excusable) because they're working with many things they quite literally cannot control at all times. To act this way is telling everyone below thirty that they're just immature, irresponsible, dicks. It's insulting to them to be labeled in this way, too, even if too many of them see it as a free pass and are, thus, okay with it right now. They won't be, eventually.
Anyway, again, I'm not trying to be shitty to you! I don't think you meant anything in your message in a nasty way, and I cannot say how much I appreciate that after the bullshit brought to this blog and that I've been dealing with privately to help some of those affected feel like the RPC is a place they're safe and welcome in again.
I am definitely tired! Everyone else involved is as well. At least, on what I have to term as "this side" of the equation. I cannot speak to the other side, obviously, but I think they got tired enough of it not being tolerated to be quiet at least. When you make it unfun for people like that, that's usually what happens, after all.
So, I don't think it's them trying to continue the drama. Most of the people I know have remained in their corners happily or been obliged to leave for a while. As for the other people with suspicions...like I said, there are a lot more factors going on here than wanting to perpetuate drama. Sometimes, when we try to make ourselves feel safe, vindicated/vindicate a friend, there isn't any other option but to have the topic come up or breed into suspicions, correct or incorrect ones.
It's a situation that CoaR had a great deal of culpability in, and as such, had a lot of power to mitigate this well before it got to suspicions of who was modding the blog. That wasn't done, and won't be. Like Raven's antics, I have to feel like they've brought some of this on themselves. I do not and will not condone any hate messages sent their way, but again, right or wrong, people do have a right to feel the way they are.
If I were you, I'd stay as far away from it as possible. I don't go on CoaR unless I have to in order to answer something. I had a single blog blocked over here until this all went down (hilariously, it happened to be one that was involved, too, sometimes the red flags are legit, folks), now I have a sadly large number of them. It's now added to liberally, and I hate to do that, I like this blog to be open even to people who disagree with me. I can't deal with the constant drama, though, and I'm not going to be in a new callout every month until I die. Outside of being true to my word about accepting any and all vent messages, I don't want to see it, I don't want to be involved with it. I tag the posts so that followers can filter it, but I'm not going to function as a semi-callout blog by telling people who they should avoid. Just that they should avoid anyone who is making them feel this tired and done. Myself included.
I hope things have settled down in your corner of the RPC since you sent this! They have over here, thankfully. I think most people are staying away from the vent blog and hoping a new and better one comes along. It's back to the usual drama of "stop calling muns pedos for aging up characters."
#answered#anonymous#drama cw#misogyny cw#ageism cw#coar drama cw#I think that's all of them...#tumblr rpc
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Spill the tea, what's the deal with you and the BSG group (avatar-chang and her squad in particular)?
Ok anon, sorry for taking so long! I wanted to get everything right and honestly collecting the posts took a longass time xD
Anyways, the only ones I have a problem there are avatar-chang, hexful/dykesia/bizukos, catrademption, cardboardseagulls (never seen interacted b4) and bizulas (also never interacted b4).
I’m going to be really transparent about this whole thing so it’s gonna be long as there’s gonna be several links and I’ve included the dates so it’ll be easier to understand. Since I’ll be fully transparent about this, i’ll probably get hate or whatever. Honestly, I just want to put everything out there without being biased or hiding anything. I’m going to disclose everything here.
So, the whole thing between me and avatar-chang started off with this post I made last year on 10 March 2019. Afterwards, she PMed me on the same day and this was the conversation:
After that, I thought the argument was over because she blocked me lmao. The only ones I spoke to about this was nbw and my real life friends (who had nothing to do with ATLA lmao I just ranted to them).
And then the next incident I think was on 16 March 2019 when I made this post about Azula’s abuse of her friends. I was new and 16. I genuinely wanted to know why people labeled Azula as an abuser. It was dykesia who responded to me at the time.
Now, unlike avatar-chang, I had a few conversations with dykesia (who was bizukos then) that was generally civil. I first interacted with her when she made a post calling out Zucest shippers or something?? I was very new. Like fresh newbie baby ATLA tumblr fan new lmao so I thought what she said was too aggressive. I didn’t realize that there were actual Zucest shippers until after some time. And then she PMed me on 13 March 2019, saying that she doesn’t always agree on characters with me but I do write some interesting pieces on Azula— that she’s a huge fan of Azula but she just tends to stay away from her fandom. I apologized about the previous incident of the Zucest thing and it was fine after then. We talked about zuko, the fandom, the comics, Mai etc etc. I thought we were on fine terms.
And then I made a post about the cliff scene in the comics on 16 March 2019. Avatar-Chang made a post that was pretty directed at the post but it seems like she’s deleted it.
On 17 March 2019, I received an anon mail telling me that avatar-chang was talking shit about me behind my back. I censored her name then because I didn’t want to believe without any evidence. No one sent me any screenshots about it so I just dismissed it.
On the same day, avatar-chang answered an anon and talked about the 13 child post theory I made on 9 March.
On 23 April 2019, I received another anon mail about avatar-chang, asking if I’d seen the post she made about Azula. I censored her name again cuz I didn’t want to start any shit over having differing opinions. I’m assuming this is the post the anon was referring to.
On 28 April 2019, dykesia/hexful/bizukos PMed me to ask if I was talking shit about other people behind their backs, and her. I denied this because I hadn’t. This was how the conversation went:
Yes, I didn’t censor any name because as I said, full transparency. I have afp blocked because we’ve clashed several times and he’d still come for my posts last year despite already being blocked. If you’ve followed me long enough, you probably would’ve rmbered that time lmao
Anyways during then, I don’t think I realized that dykesia was actually being passive aggressive. It’d been barely a year since I started the blog and I just didn’t want to full out make enemies. Reading the messages now tho lmao she really was passive aggressive. But yeah then she said this in bsg so I don’t even know why she bothered to ask me if she wasn’t even going to consider believing me.
The 9th of June 2019 was the last time she messaged and it was to ask if I mind her discoursing this Zuko post while ‘hard and drunk’. It was the first time she could apparently agree with me so it was I quote a ‘Yay??’. Afterwards I don’t know when she did it but she blocked me lmao
On 17 July 2019, I received another anon mail telling me that avatar-chang publicly called me a bitch when she was answering an anon about me posting the scans of the EK Chronicles. She mentioned this in bsg again on 19 April 2020 lmao (she’s that petty) it seems:
On November 8 2019, an anon (one of avatar-chang’s friends actually) asked about my thoughts towards the allegations against Aaron Ehasz. I still believe in the system of ‘Innocent before proven guilty’, so I didn’t side with anyone. I tried to be as objective as possible. When I said that I hoped men would also come forward, I said that because I don’t want men to just sit on the sidelines and let the women get the heat if they were telling the truth. At the end of this whole thing, I concluded that Ehasz was a dick of a boss to the girls. Being called an abuser carries more weight than just being a dick. Everyone has been a dick at one point, but being an abuser is something else. Just because Ehasz was a dick doesn’t mean I’m going to stop watching TDP or dismiss his involvement in ATLA.
The next day, BSG brought the issue up despite both avatar-chang having already blocked me by then lmao
On 5 February 2020, after Legacy of the Fire Nation came out, I made a post calling out Iroh’s bs to Azula (guy literally blames Azula for everything that happened to Zuko (something which avatar-chang agrees with apparently, and Iroh even sees Ozai in a better light).
That’s so far what I’ve remembered that involved avatar-chang and dykesia.
Moving on to the next three attackers: catrademption, cardboardseagulls and bizulas.
I’ve seen catrademption around, but I don’t remember if we’ve clashed before. We must have though cuz she’s got me blocked lmao and I mostly only debate back to people when they reply to my posts. For cardboardseagulls and bizulas, I don’t think I’ve ever seen them them before but obviously they’ve seen my blog and misinterpreted everything I’ve written.
But according to them, I’m apparently a Azula apologist, extremist, irrational, toxic, coddles and woobifies Azula, justifies everything she does and invalidates abuse victims.
You can see the posts I’ve made to judge whether I actually am an irrational Azula apologist who blames everything on Zuko. One of the most recent posts I made about Azula’s character is this, and there’s still several more posts like that. Just search #meta or #analysis in my blog search and all of them will just pop up. I can assure you, I have never acted as if Azula has done nothing wrong or did everything right or whatever lies these people are spewing.
If anyone has proof that I’ve talked shit about people in the fandom to other people before, please, present your evidence. I highly think this is impossible because I actually don’t have many friends on Tumblr, nor do I usually initiate conversation because I’m awkward af.
I’ve also tried approaching those I recognized in bsg to find out more about the situation (and at least give my side of the story). Most of them have chosen not to speak to me LMAO but one of them who’s chosen to remain anonymous for their privacy, admitted that dykesia (hexful) forced them to block a blog before (after realizing they were interacting with said blog) and if not, they would be blocked themselves. I can’t post the conversation publicly because they’re afraid their speech mannerism will give away their identity. @space-sword has also shared his experience with avatar-chang on his blog and was pressured to cut off ties with ppb21 just to join the oh so magnificent Ba Sing Gay.
There’s absolutely no reason to judge someone based on their sexual orientation, race, color or age either. They rant about being discriminated against or being generalized or stereotypes but they’re the ones hypocritically committing these actions, and then justify their actions by saying ‘we’re oppressed, they’re not, so it’s not racism or discrimination’. And yet people still wonder why discrimination is still rampant LMAO
I can’t speak for the blogs they victimized in bsg, but I personally don’t agree with talking shit about them on a public server and then criminalizing them as if they’re actually predators. I also don’t agree with involving the blogs’ friends simply because of their association. I also don’t agree with demanding people to block blogs they don’t like because that’s just pure manipulation. That’s wrong and marginalizing people. Unless someone has actually been harassing or literally preying on people, then there’s no reason to actually go around warning blogs about them unless they’re asked about it.
If they feel uncomfortable about something? Then avoid that blog, filter their tags or even block that blog if they’re that uncomfortable—BUT they shouldn’t demand others to do the same just for their own benefit. It’s not up to them to decide what a person can or cannot see or who they can or cannot interact with. They’re not their parents, and they obviously have no right to pressure people into doing things they don’t want to. If they think it tactless that I shared the conversations? Oh honestly, a line was crossed when they spread shit about me so idc. If they actually feel terrible for being called out? GOOD. That’s what they should feel, because in no way was any of what they were doing right or justified. If they’re going to shit on me then expect to be burned because I’m not someone who’ll just shrivel in fear because they have a bigger following.
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A Rebuttal
Ok so I really did not want to make this post. I would’ve loved to have left this whole thing behind because I’m aware I made some mistakes and would like to atone for them, but it seems I’m going to have to go over this one more time. For anyone seeing this post who somehow doesn’t know, I said some regrettable things about Aidan Gallagher here. I later made another post here summarising the entire situation that resulted, so I would suggest you read that first.
I’m still getting people telling me what I said was fucked up, which is entirely justified. However, I have just now realised that the person who took it upon themselves to ‘correct’ me about my opinions of Aidan Gallagher (something that has not changed, I still strongly dislike him) later made several derogatory posts about me. I was not aware of this because after the first rude post they made about me, I blocked them to save myself the additional stress.
I have done my best to deal with this whole thing as calmly and politely as possible. When this person was downright evil towards me, I didn’t bother to argue with them, I just made an admittedly-snarky post with a screenshot of what they said, and then blocked them because I had no desire to begin an argument. When I realised that what I had said about Aidan Gallagher had been fucked up, I apologised, accepted my mistake and did what I could to fix it. But I am out of patience. I don’t take kindly to being treated the way this person has treated me, I don’t think anyone does. So here I am, about to break down everything they said about me bit by bit to show you how much of a lying scumbag they have been towards me (as well as possibly others).
warning: this post is incredibly long
tw: su*c*de mentions
My first interaction with this person was when i got an anon ask who wanted to know what Aidan Gallagher had done to make me dislike him. I responded with a brief list, excluding most of my evidence because it was late at night and I didn’t have the energy to go down the rabbit hole of all this. The following day, the blog this post is about reblogged my post, attempting to disprove everything I said. I will not include screenshots here, because it was a long post, you can find it in my archive if you so wish. I read what they said, took everything into account, and responded with my proof for things I hadn’t previously included the proof for, as well as explanations for why certain things he’s said annoyed/upset me. I expected a polite response, as we had both been courteous so far.
Instead, I received the following:
Now, lets break down some of what they said.
‘stop saying things you can’t prove, because it’s fake’ - I provided my proof. I am not trying to lie to anyone, or perpetuate rumours. All I aimed to do was explain my point of view and why I personally dislike him.
‘some of your screenshots are fake’ - That’s just blatantly untrue, especially as they have at other points said things along the lines of ‘well yes but he apologised/he didn’t mean it like that’ for everything I have provided screenshots for. Make up your mind.
‘you’re so gullible’ - For... having an opinion? That I researched before forming? And which is based on something other than my blind faith in a 17 year old? Right.
This was when I blocked them.
I thought that was going to be the end of the situation. Then, I got some asks.
I saw this and, being a minor, was a little creeped out. I had assumed this person was a teenage fangirl because that’s who the majority of Aidan Gallgher’s fans are so this information was surprising.
This one scared me. I did what the anon suggested, created a backup (i won’t tag it here because I get the feeling some of the aforementioned ‘army’ are going to see this) and reported the other blog. Once again, I thought it was over.
It was at this point that people started telling me how fucked up what I said in my original post was, and I realised they were right. As mentioned at the start of this post, I apologised, and did everything I could to fix it. End of, right?
Until today, where I started thinking about what the above anons had said and decided to fact check, mainly out of curiosity. I unblocked the blog, only to discover they had made 3 posts about me that I hadn’t seen.
This was the first one, as you can see they began it with a screenshot of my original post. Let’s talk about this.
“but you wishing him dead is ok?” - I never wished him dead, to start with. Stabbing does not automatically equal death, but I know that’s nitpicky of me. I also did not wish he was stabbed. I said in that exact tag that I didn’t, because of TUA. However, I know that this ‘joke’ was really shitty of me, and I have already apologised multiple times.
“what kind of a low life do you have to be to have nothing better to do, but talk shit about a kid?” - Why don’t you tell me? As I’ve said multiple times, I am a minor. That doesn’t excuse what I said, but that does make it incredibly hypocritical of them to say that given everything.
This was the second post they made about me, beginning with the same screenshot as in the first post.
“they’re spreading false rumors” - I’ve already covered this one.
“they want a reason to be mean, even if it isn’t true” - I would never be mean to someone if they hadn’t done anything to deserve it. I’m a strong believer in the moral philosophy of respecting everyone until they give you a reason not to. Aidan Gallagher has given me more than enough reasons to lose respect for him. And, honestly? I still respect him as an actor, even if only that.
“you can’t say you’re a decent human being and wish someone dead. you can’t say you’re anti-bullying and want to prevent suicide and then bully someone” - That is some big talk from someone who claimed they were ok with what Aidan Gallagher said about mental health because they’ve had their own experiences with suicide, before immediately telling me to rot and burn in hell for disagreeing with them. And, wait a second, wasn’t Aidan Gallagher the one supporting women’s rights and feminism who then turned around and made gross comments towards a bunch of girls? Hmm. Also, wishing someone dead is too wide of a blanket statement to actually measure whether someone is a decent human being with.
“i tried to be nice” - I didn’t know telling someone to rot in hell, calling them a stupid hoe, was being nice. I didn’t know lying, and telling people to report someone because they disagreed with you was being nice (notice how they never said anything about my stabbing comment until I disagreed with them.) I guess we have very different definitions of nice.
“if they really cared, they would kindly ask a fan if the rumors were true” - And that, ladies gentleman and variations thereupon, is a brilliant example of how not to perform unbiased research! I based my opinion on actual evidence, and neutral articles as well as arguments from both sides. Not on one fan who’s likely to deny everything.
“they said it themselves, they have no proof” - That is so incredibly cherrypicked. What I actually said was “supposedly used the f-slur although i can’t find proof“, one of the many points on my list of reasons I dislike Aidan Gallagher. You know why I said that? Because I found a screenshot of him supposedly having called someone that slur via Instagram but I gave him the benefit of the doubt and decided it was probably edited. I included the point on my list in the hopes of people doing their own research. And I certainly did not say I had no proof for anything, as you would know if you saw my original response to this blog, where I provided proof.
“threatening him and bullying him is wrong” - I am fully admitting of the fact my stabbing comment was in poor taste but it was very clearly not a threat and not even close to being bullying. Furthermore, I would say making four posts harassing and telling others to harass someone because they disagree with you is a lot closer to being bullying than anything I did was.
“defamation is a crime” - I live in the UK, so let’s use those defamation laws. A statement is not defamation unless it ‘ has caused or is likely to cause serious harm to the reputation of the claimant.’ Less than a hundred people are even aware my blog exists. Nowhere near enough people have seen anything I’ve said to count as defamatory. Not to mention that a statement is not defamatory if it is a statement of opinion.
“you’ll get karma for lying and playing the victim” - Ohhh the irony. I have not lied once. I have provided all the necessary proof for everything and I have owned up to my mistakes. And yet, they, who have repeatedly lied about me, twisted my words and oddly enough, avoided including proof outside that one screenshot of my original post, are the one accusing me of playing the victim. Classy.
“hi to your little follower that you cry to” - This one’s just hilarious to me. I’m happy to have people on here who will let me know when people are, you know, harassing and bullying me. And, what the hell do they mean by ‘cry to’? Do they mean ‘mentioned that this situation was stressful once’? Wow.
“I promise you misery for the rest of your sad little life” - Honestly just re-read the other screenshots after seeing they said this. Jesus Christ. And, as someone who already struggles with depression and other mental health issues I’m interested to know what they’re intending to do that’s gonna be any worse.
“you’ll pay! that’s not a threat it’s a promise” - Are they planning on tracking me down? Or are they just going to keep sitting on their throne of yes men and echo chambers acting as if they’re actually affecting me?
I would say this is the last post I plan to make about this situation but I’ve said that over and over again throughout the last 12 days and it’s never the last post. This whole situation has honestly been very emotionally taxing, and combined with some real life things, it’s been a bad week or so. Hopefully this post is enough to end this whole thing.
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i was just sent a post from the blog who must not be named it was a post reblogged from someone who ive added to my list of really bad people but one of the things that struck me was a tag i saw in the post
antis seek therapy
we do
we do seek therapy often to combat the trauma some of us have endured through being groomed and being abused we spend time on ourselves to heal we find ways to cope and enjoy life again after it feels like parts of ourselves have been ripped from us and broken and tainted and violated
we work to be comfortable again we work to feel like ourselves again we find things we love again we allow ourselves to enjoy media again
we are taught to stand up for our own levels of comfort and to take control of the space around us we are taught mechanisms to move forward and we are encouraged to help others and support others at least thats what my therapist of multiple decades told me
we all seek shelter in our own ways and many people seek it in media its literally what so many beetlebabes shippers claim to be doing like they’re quote reclaiming some lost childhood thing unquote and yeah i think youre going about it in a terrible way that continues the cycle of pedophila and is normalizing it but thats not even what this is about right now this is about the blatant disrespect and inability to open your eyes to someone elses experience and story
so many antis are so uncomfortable with the content created by beetlebabe shippers myself included since its so similar to the material used to character veil up abuse me character veil down
we try to curate our spaces for that we say beetlebabes dni dont reblog dont put yourself in this space im making for myself but then people come in and call it gatekeeping and try to illustrate how someone is a bad person for not wanting exposure so pedophilic content like its absolutely baffling to me that people can state such a clear and simple rule and then people will whine and moan about it as if its oppression newsflash its not fucking oppression you whining slime mold being asked to not interact on the ground of pedophilia isnt fucking oppression read a book go outside and learn something anyway
people are entitled to have control over the space in which they occupy people have the control to remove people from their spaces its like ok weird metaphor but this whole ordeal with wearing masks in public spaces yes you may have the right to refuse to wear a mask and you have the right technically to harass service industry workers but the businesses that employ these workers also have the full right to not allow you in and to even remove you from the property free speech also comes with consequences this is such a simple principle like talk shit get hit metaphorically is basically the same principle
coming into someones space after they specified that that your content is something that makes them uncomfortable makes you a major asshole and also makes me think youre dumb and maybe cant read
all of that is bad enough
but to continuously berate someone and belittle their very real trauma all in the sake of you wanting to ship and post pedophilia is simply abhorrent it is truly vile behavior to come back multiple times is truly a disdainful act in my eyes and im sure im not the first person to feel this way
if youre close to people in the field of psychiatric medicine you should know better than to belittle someones trauma and as a csa survivor yourself you should have the compassion to respect someones boundaries
have you discussed this behavior with this psychiatrist husband of yours not the pedophilic stuff but this blatant disrespect and dismissal of someone elses trauma and the growth theyve achieved thanks to their therapy and counseling have you addressed this narcissistic holier than thou approach you have to discussing such serious issues with people because thats something that should be addressed along with your acceptance and tolerance and even romanticization of pedophilia in media
this is harassment and gaslighting in action folks nether receipts I hope youre taking notes because you clearly dont know what either term means and the fact that youve gone out of your way to promote this abusive behavior is yet another reason why people dislike you i can’t tag you because youve finally taken the hint and blocked me so I see no point but you know who you are also people don’t hate you because youre a woman they hate you because youre a pedophile anyway this isnt about you
back to the person im actually addressing
trauma is not an experience that is easy to read and apply to every person you yourself sourced years of trying to deal with what you went through who are you to dictate how long someone can feel pain for what theyve gone through who are you exactly to say whether or not if has been too long of a time for someones trauma to effect them you of all people should know that this shit doesnt go away it lingers and it grips you forever it doesnt matter if you’ve been apart from it for ten days or ten years
in one sentence you belittled a person for still being effected by their trauma and then in the next stated that the battle is life long which is it which statement do you actually beleive because it seems to me you only seem to care about your own horrible self without taking this other person into account at all because their response to their trauma was to break the cycle and work to make his space safer for himself and i beleive that takes more courage and more strength to actively oppose what hurt you rather than let it become how you cope and it becomes something you reintroduce into the cycle by keeping the its all okay attitude alive
i do not usually do direct posts its not exactly my style but i am so disgusted by what i have seen and what has been shared with me that it would be a disservice to not alert as many people as i can about your behavior
for a closing statement i will quote you
quote i hope you find your way to it instead of wasting all of your time being afraid of pictures and words on a screen, and picking fights with people who harm nobody unquote
what the fuck so you think youre doing by coming back over and over to belittle trauma denounce treatment and all around be unpleasant and high and mighty thats fucking harming people you narcissistic fool
im sorry you were hurt that fucking sucks but that doesnt give your the right for one fucking second to come into someones space where it was specified that you were not allowed and proceed to harass them and belittle them like you have done
@soeur-tiame you should be ashamed of yourself
dont bother responding as ive shown before with that transmed guy i dont like to waste any more of my time on filth than i need to
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