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aqours · 1 year

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"Aqua has an Oedipus complex-" first of all beyond the fact the only way you could possibly think this is you never read or watched OnK at all and just read a synopsis and didn't bother to verify if it was accurate or not- this is actually the weakest way you could possibly interpret the nature of the feelings Goro/Aqua had regarding Ai. like, even ignoring the fact that Aqua has such an extreme lack of an Oedipus complex to the point he actively refused to breastfeed from Ai because it would have been creepy and inappropriate to him, everything about Aqua's feelings regarding Ai if anything read as parental quite frankly

Gorou Amamiya became Ai's fan because of Sarina. Because Sarina was somebody important to Gorou that he comforted in her last days, he became a huge fan of Ai in order to carry on Sarina's wishes and to keep supporting her and became a genuine diehard idol fan in the process. Then, he met Ai while pregnant: and had a heart-to-heart conversation with her. And came to the conclusion that Ai was somebody he wanted to support in any capacity. He could have been like Ryousuke and actually become possessive of her and feel like she betrayed him: he did not. He was a medical professional that put aside his own feelings as "a fan" to support her both as a doctor and as a fan in his own way by wishing for her sincere happiness as opposed to an image sold to fans.

He wanted to see her grow up happy and healthy. If Ryousuke had not killed him and there was no murder plot at all? The plot of this story probably would have been about him moving to Tokyo after talking to Ai's manager saying that someone needs to be their family doctor while keeping their secret and him taking the roll. The series would have been about Gorou as the Hoshino family doctor and how he supports them as a member of the sidelines who gives support in his own way.

Aqua never really refers to Ai as his mother much outside of situations when it'd be weirder if he didn't. It's very explicit he does not have a romantic or sexual attraction to Ai in this new life: he already didn't, but now it's like, Negatively So Actually. No longer able to support her as a doctor he even took an acting gig JUST to help further and bolster Ai's career. It's beaten into your face with the subtlety of a dozen hammers to your face his only desire is to watch Ai grow up safe and happily and succesful.

Aqua's/Gorou's relationship with Ai was someone who wanted to see her grow up to be happy. And after some waste of life incel murdered her? To want to make sure that was avenged. Because he was someone older than Ai who valued her and wanted her happiness above everything else in the world, and views the person who is responsible for that as someone who's life is forfeit. Because Ai was a good person who didn't deserve her fate and as someone who only ever wanted to support her, wants to make sure that her memory can rest in peace completely.

If anything, the feelings Aqua/Gorou had towards Ai are parental in nature. So much about his motivations read like a father who wants to avenge his daughter's murder, to kill the man that denied her the happiness the child deserved.

"OnK is soooooooo gross the mc has an Oedipus complex and is a p*do-" not only is this a reading you can only get from a five second sypnosis read and being determined to hate OnK for brownie points, it's not even the right fucked up dead dove way that you could describe their relationship.

EDIT: I feel the need to address this, as it's talked in reblogs and some notes! I never expected this to get notes, and I mostly wrote this in one go. Please understand I wrote this post from the perspective of purely writing Aqua's feelings for Ai purely from a familial perspective. The reality is that Aqua's feelings are complicated and can be read in many different ways: from familial, to that of a lover, to someone who puts Ai on a pedestal as the ultimate Idol and the ideal of what a "true" fan would be: someone who loves their Idol for who she is as opposed to a toxic image. I don't fully 100% agree with this post anymore, but if I had to chose only one familial way for Aqua to view Ai I would probably still default to "vengeful father who wants to avenge his daughter's death." BUT Aqua's feelings are ultra complicated and are on an entire spectrum ranging from "wholesome" to "outright disturbing," so please don't take my words as like a single sure-fire way to interpret him! ty all <3

#oshi no ko #onk #my star #ai hoshino #hoshino ai #aquamarine hoshino #hoshino aquamarine #aqua hoshino #starposts #gorou amemiya

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wishingicouldfly · 5 months

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Why I Believe Larry Is Real

It’s been a long time since I’ve done one of my opinion essays. This week I was asked to justify my belief that Larry is real, and that Harry and Louis are together. It feels like it’s time.

::cracks knuckles::

I’ve thought about how to reply to the demand, which came from someone on X (formerly Twitter). I cannot compel someone who isn’t inclined to believe in Larry to suddenly change their mind. If someone doesn’t want to interpret the signs the same way I do, that’s their prerogative. But that said, I decided to give some thought about how to answer the question.

I’ve been inspired by IndiaAlphaWhiskey and her recent reply to a similar question. I loved the way she answered by talking about long term love and how it’s steady and doesn't need to have a lot of fireworks visible from the outside. It’s hard to put that into words that make sense to someone who hasn’t witnessed it. Here’s her original reply:

The reality is we do not have solid proof that they were or - as I believe - still are in a relationship. Nor should we. H&L are closeted celebrities who keep their private life private. They are closeted, so you won’t see them admitting to being in a relationship in interviews; that would defeat the point of being closeted. In fact, you may think you’ve heard them outright deny being together. Again, if you’re not looking at the clues, and you only want to take this at face value, you’re not going to see any other possible narrative. Full stop. If that’s the case, you’re not going to agree with me, and that’s fine.

If you really want to go down a rabbit hole, my friend @bkatie617 keeps a running spreadsheet on perceived coincidences in the current era.

https://x.com/BKatie617/status/1739715223244742755?s=20

I can list out a hundred things that, to me, are coded messages H&L have signaled to either us or to each other. You can debunk/deny/laugh-out-loud at all of them, if you want. You might call something coincidence or debunk one or more of these pieces. And yes, there are things out there that aren’t true, that are completely coincidence or debatable – or wildly unbelievable.

I get that. In fact, I have a whole thread of debunks on my Twitter bio. My debunk thread focuses on factual, hard-proof debunks to help veterans and newcomers keep the story straight.

https://x.com/Rosann_1986/status/1670101749267406848?s=20

But there are a hundred more things that are real. Or at least open to interpretation. At some point, it becomes really, really unlikely that everything is a coincidence over the last decade, and you have to admit that H&L are in collaboration with their messaging. For me, once you admit they are in collaboration in their messaging, it doesn’t take a huge leap to believe they are together romantically. Why else would their teams coordinate messaging to the media and the masses?

Harry even said, in 2022, “There’s not many [clues and tidbits] that get left behind. Most of the time, they usually pick up on pretty much everything, along with a couple of hilarious coincidences that were never meant to be, never meant to be kind of clues in the first place that happen… end up being clues.”

Source: Harry Styles talks to the Morning Mash Up about his new single, 'As It Was', Coachella, and more (siriusxm.ca)

You don’t have to believe any of it. I’m fine with that. But because you don’t believe it, doesn’t mean I’m not completely, unwavering, solidly adamant in my own belief that it’s real. Especially if you’re not providing any evidence to sway my beliefs.

Here’s what I think: I think Harry and Louis met and fell in love during X-Factor in 2010, began dating, and continued to fall while on the X-Factor tour and the recording of the first single and album. I believe they made it official in 2011. Over the years, they went through hard times through career changes, loss of family members, solo career ups and downs, differences in career trajectory, doubts and fears, and then the pandemic. I believe they weathered all that and are together and committed to this day.

I think they live a private life and have no intention of coming out or going public any time soon. Harry said to Rolling Stone last year that he hasn’t publicly “been with anyone.” I also think, even though they are determined to stay private, they like the idea of some fans knowing and supporting them. Seeing their true, authentic selves. So, they’ve gotten good at messaging their truth to fans who want to see it and support it.

Due to industry pressure and 'image' clauses in their contract, I think they were encouraged by record execs and management to keep their relationship quiet, but rebelled (as teenagers, young adults, and fools in love will do) by insinuating double meanings in interviews and signaling to those in the know ever since.

I think the signaling started in One Direction days when fans began to pick up on the signs they gave each other - the secret looks, the thumbs up, their complementary tattoos.

When they saw fans remaining loyal, despite the idea they might be gay/queer and together, the signals turned more outward and louder, with Harry’s blue bandana, lyrics, the rainbow bears, and more. I think it continues today with graphic t-shirts, even more lyrics, matching merch, intentional mirroring in stage lighting and costumes, and more.

Evidence Larry are together Now

Understand that there’s no solid “proof” that H&L are together now. So, if that’s what you’re here looking for, you won’t find it. They are closeted still, both portraying a heterosexual narrative in the media.

My lens (admittedly biased) is that they are together and hint to us, but that most of what they do these days is for each other. Little inside jokes from across the world or across the room to show they are together. Despite them being separated for work a lot, I believe these little nods to each other helps keep their connection healthy and strong across the time apart.

What follows is a small sampling of what I think is intentional messaging from H&L, meant to suggest to those following that they are still together. Nothing is a proof. Nothing by itself is anything more than coincidence. But taken together, these along with other examples, show two men who are speaking through their actions, in my humble opinion.

They have strikingly similar patterns in their merch for FITF and HSLOT.

Harry’s merch looks like it would be comfortable at Louis’ show.

Harry drew H and L on his trainers on May 10, 2022 on a pap walk in Italy.

Both Harry and Louis used some of the same songs for their pre- and post-show playlists. https://www.tumblr.com/bluewinnerangel/702446259292831744/do-you-see-any-commonalities-between-harry-and

They both had really intentional blue/green stage lights at their shows. For anyone who doesn’t know, blue and green were their respective assigned colors when they were in One Direction. Certainly not a proof on its own but coupled with other things adds to the intentionality.

Complementary stage outfits. See this whole thread by @grete418 on X. It’s tongue in cheek, but it demonstrates what I mean about outfits matching/complementing each other. https://twitter.com/Grete418/status/1536453046611369989

Harry dressed as Danny Zuko at Harryween 2022 (coincidentally, Louis’ one and only lead role in a high school musical). https://twitter.com/UpdateHLD/status/1587297649572585473

Louis namechecked his unreleased song “All Along” in September 2022 (here at about 5:20), which strongly references Harry and a concert they attended together.. https://youtu.be/D9NjoMuz5-s?si=eRB-FwLI9JveMK3N

Louis wearing his 'dancing man' top when the 'dancing Harry' figure is so well known.

Similar visual themes like this. Same assignment, different execution. (Harry’s House/Silver Tongues):

Louis’ new tattoos (2023) appear to be images already seen on Harry’s journal cover and eye motif from HSLOT, plus they add to the existing traditional nautical motif they share.

T-shirt in Music Video for Music for a Sushi Restaurant reading LT Seniors.

Louis used fan images of Harry’s tattoos as Spotify cover art in February 2021.

Lyrics that seem to respond to each other, and/or have similar themes

Louis wears a rose (like Harry’s tattoo) on his shirt on 6/26/23…next night Harry wears a very phallic shaped rocket ship that looks a lot like Louis’ dagger tattoo. Seems like a call and response.

Louis singing 7 by Catfish and the Bottlemen, on both his tours. The song begins, “Larry call a load of smoke in…”

Added: (5/29/24). Louis announces his "For Every Question Why" Live Stream event via Veeps on 5/27/24. Two days later (5/29/29), Harry turns up in Florence, Italy, wearing an Elmo shirt with the word Why? via Twitter: (1) Ali ~So Be It! on X: "Just leaving this here. https://t.co/Mdty8DRLDE" / X

So there you have it. I could obviously go on for quite a bit, with many more examples, but I think this is a pretty good sampling. If you’d like to know more, or talk about it, feel free to DM me here or on X (@Rosann_1986). I don’t do this to try to change anyone’s mind. If you don’t believe they are doing these things intentionally, and aren’t curious or approaching this with an open mind, nothing I say will change that for you.

If you’re new here and you’d like to learn more, there are a lot of places to find master posts. Understand that you have to take everything with a grain of salt and come to your own conclusions. Here are a few places to start:

(2) Be a lover. Give love. Choose love. on Tumblr

It’s a beautiful war 🌈 (tumblr.com)

Great lyric analysis here: it's subjective - My song analyses Last edited December 22nd 2022,... (tumblr.com)

#larries #harry styles #louis tomlinson #why I think they are together #they are married #they love each other #closeted #they never broke up

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supercalime · 1 month

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I know Buck wasn’t originally written as bisexual but looking back to season 2, you actually can interpret buck being attracted to eddie. He may even had a little crush on him. But Eddie being canonically straight didn’t show any romantic or sexual interest towards buck. I think if he was canonically gay and interested in buck and made any moves towards it, he could have had his bi awakening or realization back then and could have caught serious romantic feelings for Eddie. You can’t deny some parallels between his first meeting with eddie and with tommy. The unknown jealousy and the ranting about them. But because eddie is straight and never showed any sign of beeing into buck, his (maybe) feelings for eddie turned into an incredibly great friendship. That’s why I think his feelings for Tommy are very real and don’t have anything to do with Eddie. Tommy is canonically gay and reciprocated the feelings and attraction to buck. He was the one who made the first move and kissed buck. Buck was clearly interested in him and tried to get his attention. I do think that if tommy wasn’t interested in him and didn’t kiss him, buck still wouldn’t have figured out that he’s bisexual and his feelings towards him probably would’ve eventually turned into friendly feelings. I personally tend to hope for bucktommy rather than buddie but I wouldn’t be mad if buddie became canon. But I think the only way would be to make eddie demisexual, because there were really no signs that he likes men in any way other than his strong connection and chemistry with buck. Different from buck where you can retrospectively see many unintentional signs.

Oh yeah! I want to make it abundantly clear that I’m all in the bucktommy train 100%

I fell in love with them and I’m more in favor of them than the ship that shall not be named. I can’t stress it enough, I want bucktommy to be endgame. I’m a bucktommy slut.

I do believe you can look back and see clues that maybe buck was into eddie, whether that was intentional or not. I believe the writers accidentally queer coded him and when they noticed they decided to run with it when they got the green light from the network.

But as you said, he could have had an initial crush on a friend and that changed with time. And that is completely fine! It doesn’t mean he had been in love with him the whole time and repressing it. Of course there is the possibility that buck and eddie can be an item, if the writers decide to go that route.

That being said, as of now, there are no concrete evidence on screen that buck and eddie were/are going in that direction. Like you said, eddie hasn’t shown he’s into men/buck and if buck was into eddie since the beginning and vice versa, i believe the writers would have pushed that queer coding to the max she-ra style to force the network to get them together. There had been opportunities for the writers to not be that ambiguous.

And yes! The canon bi buck storyline is not about Eddie and it shouldn’t be even if buck and eddie are supposed to be endgame. All the signs since 07x03 (when Buck touched Tommy’s shoulder and we all got a little bit of the gay vibe) have pointed that Buck had been into tommy and mistook who he was placing the jealousy on during 07x04. It’s a classic trope and I hate that b*ddie stans conveniently forgot how misdirection works to feed into what they want (not only that, but also stating as fact). When 07x05 rolled around and we got the coming out scene, it’s clear to me that there was no intention to place bucks attraction to men on eddie or eddie also realizing he’s queer. It would have been the perfect opportunity to sprinkle in some queer eddie but there was not even a subtle hint of that in that entire scene and I honestly hope their friendship stays that way.

Not to be a bitch but, why can’t they “just” be friends? It’s so rare to have these archetypes of characters be as vulnerable and devoted to each other, without an ounce of toxic masculinity, being true friends and nothing else. I whole heartedly believe what buck and eddie have is even bigger than family or romance, they are each others rocks and defining them as brothers or “husbands” does a disservice to their relationship. I think of them more as platonic soulmates. They are others ride or die, which reminds me a lot of Marjan and Paul from lone star (they have a very similar dynamic and despite theoretically having the possibility of being a couple - as a straight woman and straight man - I don’t see them going that way ever because that’s not what their relationship is. They love each other, would literally die for each other but are not and will never see each other as potential romantic partners).

On a waaaaaaaaay lighter note: I’m excited for next episode. We are surely getting more bucktommy and I simply can’t wait to see what the writers have cooking up for this lovely ship!

#lety rambles #ask #911 #bucktommy #tevan #911 abc #911 lone star #firefly #firepilot

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commsroom · 7 months

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I'm really glad for all the love you've put into w359 fanworks. every time I see you post about it, my heart glows a little.

I'd originally felt that way while listening to the show, and your interpretation & vision feels so tightly knit to the source material. you even go farther in your explicit discussions about hera, her autonomy, her emotional depth, her treatment by other characters, and her arc as a trans allegory

totally understand why you might feel embarrassed, but I wanted you to know: thank you 💜

oh, that's so sweet of you to say!! i'm honored you think so.

i genuinely think there's a case to be made that eiffel/hera is as canon as the parameters for romance in wolf 359 allow it to be. like: gabriel urbina's policy was always "never confirm or deny 'on-screen' romance unless absolutely necessary" and from the AMAs we know they at least discussed it with regard to eiffel and hera, though we'll never know how that conversation went. it's not really a secret that sarah shachat and zach valenti, at least, viewed it that way. i still think about zach saying (paraphrased) that he thinks his non-answer is an answer, because if he didn't ship them, he could just say so.

and that's kind of how i feel about eiffel/hera within canon. like. anybody at all familiar with shows the wolf 359 writers like (especially things like btvs and farscape) can tell you there are plenty of scenes that mirror and meta-textually reference scenes from other shows. both gabriel urbina and sarah shachat were huge fans of the new doctor who, and whatever you believe the intent was, i find it hard to believe they didn't at least know they were evoking "if it's my last chance to say it, rose tyler, i-" with "and hera. hera, i-" it's what isn't said, the fact it has to be left unsaid, that speaks the loudest.

and anyway, talking about hera and romance / sexuality is especially interesting to me because it's not a given for her. it's not assumed to be something she should want or can have, and the way that intersects with her canon disability and with readings of her as a trans woman re: autonomy and desirability is very interesting (and very personal) to me, especially in the broader context of stories about AI women. but that's a topic for another post.

it's not a new observation by any means, but i think there can be a tendency to treat romance as separate from character analysis, and that's always sat poorly with me. romance isn't unique in either a good or a bad way, it's just... one type of relationship people can have. i think a lot about the unique approach wolf 359 has to romance because, while i understand why a lot of people would find the lack of romantic subplots refreshing, the characters aren't written to be intentionally disinterested in sex or romance (in some cases, textually... the opposite, even), so much as the writing carefully skirts around it. and... i don't know! there's something fascinating there.

obviously, i think you can recognize what's important about eiffel and hera's relationship (that it's the most equal one hera has ever had, that he has no real hierarchy over her or expectations for her other than companionship, how they share values and mutually support each other, etc.) without needing that to be romantic. and i think you can even acknowledge there's some degree of romantic intent without being invested like i am or "shipping" them. but i do think there's some intent there, and i think the the themes of the show can be expanded in some interesting ways to explore that beyond the intentional ambiguity of it. if you want to.

i would also never deny having an emotional bias here!! complete objectivity is never possible because we always bring parts of ourselves to our interpretations of art, and that's only amplified by how close to my heart wolf 359 is as a story. but i do really want to communicate, to the best of my ability, how much love i have for the show and how much thought i put into it. and i definitely don't mind being known for my love of eiffel/hera; they're my favorite characters from anything ever, both individually and together. but i do get kinda embarrassed when i talk about them too much, because it's not that i don't have plenty of thoughts about every other character and aspect of the show, it's just... that they are close to my heart in a particular way. anyway. i really appreciate it, thank you!!

#this still isn't worded as well as i'd like but i can't rework it any shorter without losing something. i hope it's clear enough what i mean #like in my mind eiffel/hera is functionally a canon romance but an unresolved one and i find that very compelling #fwiw i do not think gabriel urbina perceives it that way (nor would he ever say even if he did) but like. in the context wolf 359 created #i am sure he was aware of how that would come across.#anyway. remember how that one track on the ost used to be named 'eiffel and hera' and gabriel described it as the show's tenderness theme #and said their relationship became what that song guided his understanding of it to be. beats my head against the wall.#... you just got a bunch of thoughts that were on my mind and i apologize but i do appreciate it very very much #this was such a kind thing for you to say #asks

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acacia-may · 2 months

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Acacia's Definitive Defense of Langris x Finesse

No one asked about this pairing, but I'm going to ramble about them anyway... especially since I realized I don't think I've ever actually written a proper post about them as this has been sitting in my drafts for over a year (A/N: Yikes! Sorry friends. I completely forgot I wrote this until today when I tried to find that post I was absolutely certain I had made about Langris x Finesse only to find it buried in my unposted drafts 😅🙈 But I'm posting it now to coincide with the ship ask game so it kind of works...? Maybe? I have no excuses...).

Anyways, dear goodness do I have thoughts about this ship. I’m not sure I can even wrangle them all, but I am going to try my best.

I’m sure it’s pretty clear from my blog that I have a deep love for my spatial mage boys and want good things for them which is one of the main reasons why I have a lot of concerns about the whole House Vaude soap opera. A friend of mine (irl) and I once discussed that plotline for literally 6 hours so I could go on and on about this for ages, but I have tried my best to be brief. That didn't really happen so I apologize in advance for all of the rambling.

I've tried to keep the focus of this post on Langris and Finesse's relationship, so please check out this post if you want to hear my many thoughts on the House Vaude succession drama as whole and in general. To keep things organized, I've divided this discussion into 2 main subsections for clarity under the cut!

(Warnings: Black Clover spoilers and discussion of some heavier topics such as childhood trauma and abuse. Arranged marriage is also mentioned)

Why I Think Langris and Finesse Genuinely Love Each Other (not necessarily in a romantic way but definitely in a selfless care and concern kind of way)

One of my most basic premises for my personal interpretation of Langris' character really comes down to the fact that I think what Langris actually wants more than anything else is unconditional love and to be accepted for who he is (rather than what he does/his accomplishments). He wants to have people who love him, a family—but he'd never admit this because he is convinced he'll never get it. He is convinced that love needs to be earned and he can't earn it, and his relationship with Lady Finesse is a perfect example of this, I think.

It hurts Langris that she is just the kindest person ever and she doesn't like/love him (or such is the reality in Langris' mind anyway given the fact that he has carried around that one time she complimented Finral as "she hates me" for literal years in the canon. But I digress). Langris doesn't like games he can't see a possibility of winning. He closes himself off from love and building meaningful relationships because he doesn't think he'll "win" people's love in the end. He's very cynical and jaded in this way, but more than that, he's wounded. It comes from a place of being denied love without strings attached, without conditions for his entire life and of being told his by his parents that love has to be earned and being convinced that he can't earn it, that nothing he does will ever be good enough and that he will never deserve the love he so desperately craves. And in that way, it comes from a fear of being hurt and rejected. When you care about someone, you give them the power to hurt you—and Langris doesn't want that kind of vulnerability. So I think he just completely counts himself out of the running when it comes to Finesse and defers to his brother—assuming (probably correctly) that she’d choose Finral if she was given a choice between the two of them.

All of that said, he can't quite stop himself from caring for her with a genuine love and respect (not necessarily in a romantic sense but he does care for her)—it’s just sealed off somewhere and not something he really thinks about or allows himself to feel (let alone label) until his brother "declaring war" on him brings all of that to the surface and he kind of has to reconcile how much he wants to be the Head of House Vaude (what he’s worked for his entire life) with how much he wants Lady Finesse to be happy. I love how in that scene there is actually a moment (at least in the anime) in which "the camera" turns and we're watching the scene unfold from Langris' eyes/perspective immediately before he gets involved and tells Finral to clean up his act.

(A/N: If you listen very carefully you can hear the sound of Langris' entire world falling apart...)

Okay, bad jokes aside, this is a huge moment for Langris. It takes him all of five seconds to decide that Lady Finesse's happiness is far more important to him than House Vaude, than his title, his future, his own dreams and aspirations that he has worked for literally his entire life and, ultimately, is more important than everything he has looked to for his own self-worth and fulfillment up unto that point (which causes him to have a bit of an existential crisis as he tries to figure out who he is without those things, without being the next Head of House Vaude, but I digress again). It is an incredible act of love to set aside what someone wants for themselves in order to make another person happy—to choose what is best for another person even at great personal sacrifice. Regardless of how you want to qualify that love (romantic or platonic), it does not diminish the gravity of Langris' sacrifice and the willingness he shows to choose Finesse's happiness over the things that are (seemingly) the most important to him in the world.

Up until this point, Langris is this incredibly goal-oriented character who is set on becoming the best, the strongest, and eventually the head of House Vaude which comes off as self-interested and a little ruthless in his willingness to do whatever it takes to achieve his goals, but suddenly, here he is, ready to give all of that up so that Lady Finesse can have the chance to be happy. It's almost like he is saying (honestly, far louder and clearer than any words possibly could), "I love you more than all of that."

Why else would he be helping his brother take over as heir to House Vaude when that actually seems to be something Langris wants for himself? (I know the poll I ran examined some different ideas and interpretations but that's always been my personal take on it). It’s almost like in that moment, Langris has realized that he can’t make Lady Finesse happy (even if he wants to), but he thinks that Finral can so he wants to make Finral into the best he can be for her.

Once Langris is reasonably sure that Finral is at a place that he can make Finesse happy and has become a man "worthy of her," I could definitely see him stepping aside so that his brother could take over their House and marry her—purely out of concern for Finesse’s happiness, and there is something incredibly selfless and very beautiful about that.

I think Finesse's side of things is much more practical. The fact of the matter is that Finesse is royalty in a medieval society where she will inevitably be married off for a political alliance and/or to produce children, and she has probably always known that she needs to marry out of duty/responsibility, so I can’t really see her as that much of a hopeless romantic given the circumstances. If she allows herself anything, it is the hope that she will get to spend her life with someone who does care for her and who she can be content with. I don't think throughout most of Finesse's life and certainly not throughout this whole arranged marriage business that anyone has ever really asked her what she wanted or ever really cared about her wishes before, but Langris seems to have a genuine interest in her wishes and her happiness more so than anyone else. And I think she does care for him (again, not necessarily in a romantic way but it is a genuine care and concern of at least friendship).

As I discussed in this post, when Langris has all that elf-business and the King threatens to dissolve the betrothal and punish the Vaudes, it is Finesse who comes to their defense rather than taking what is quite possibly her only chance at an "out." And it is an informed, free choice on her part. I love her line in the English dub that she "knows Lord Langris and has no misgivings about him" and therefore essentially begs her uncle not to "judge him too harshly." I think there is something very strong and very courageous in her decision to believe in the good in Langris even when he is at his worst, and her concern is truly and completely focused on what is best for him. I'm especially thinking of that moment when she begs him to stop before he does something he will regret. She's worried about him: his hurt and his guilt. She really wants what's best for him, and it's this love for him and this belief in him that really brings out the best in Langris.

My absolute favorite thing about this ship (besides how selfless they are towards each other) is really that Finesse has this way of bringing out this softer, gentler side of Langris that, I think, very few people have actually seen. Langris himself is so insistent on hiding this (probably a learned response from growing up in an environment where any hint of emotion and any sensitivity is viewed as a weakness), but really he has such a deep capacity for love and given the opportunity would be fiercely loyal.

Langris may not care about a lot of people, but the ones he chooses to care about he will love forever. He's just such a tsun about it, I think, so it can be very hard for anyone (and especially for those with preconceived notions of him as a snotty stick-in-the-mud) to see that he's really very sweet and awkward as heck about his feelings. Langris' love might be quiet—it's not very flashy and usually shows itself in doing little, everyday things for the people he loves—but still waters run very, very deep and he has shown that he would do just about anything to protect the people he loves most and make them happy, no matter what that means for himself. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that he would die for Finesse if it came down to it.

Ultimately, I can imagine a lot of different outcomes for this relationship (some of which never, ever cross over into that romantic place). I really just want them both to be happy whether that means they end up together or not, but yes, I could see them happy with each other in a romantic sense under very specific circumstances since they do have such a selfless love for each other (but I think that is probably a discussion for another time because this is already super, super long so I'm cutting myself off in favor of the next section...).

Why I personally think Langris rather than Finral is better suited for Finesse

As much I don't like pitting ships against each other, I don't think it's avoidable in this case since she is going to be in arranged marriage with one of them. To paraphrase a favorite musical of mine, it's not a matter of "if" but which one. And I think it's best for me to just start off by saying that while I do genuinely like and appreciate Finesse and Finral as a ship as well, I personally think that Langris and Finesse are better suited for one another in the long term.

I will admit upfront that this is in part because of my own personal experiences of having a chronic illness (and needless to say that is a personal bias that colors my opinions, so please just keep that in mind), but I think it's important to talk about the fact that Finesse is chronically ill because it's not something I've ever really seen discussed when talking about ships for her and I really think it should be taken into account. Like Finesse, I have been sick for most of my life, and I can really relate to the kind of difficulties and limitations that Finesse likely experiences due to being chronically ill and the realities of the less active and much more slower-paced life she would lead and, by proxy, the life anyone who married her would have to lead. Again, I am not saying that I don’t like or couldn’t imagine her & Finral together (I do genuinely like that ship too), but I almost think Langris is better suited for her in that he actually wants (or seems to want) the slower-paced life they’d probably have together. For instance, there are likely to be frequent situations that would arise in which Finesse is too ill or too tired to go out and her husband would then be “forced” to stay home with her. With Langris, I think, there would never really need to be much of that feeling of guilt on Finesse’s part or the fear that she is taking away something from Langris or being a burden, because Langris isn’t super sociable and would just want to stay home anyway. In fact, let’s be honest here, he’d probably, actually feel kind of relieved that he has gotten out of unwanted socializing. Whereas Finral is a much more lively and sociable person (rather than an "old soul" like Langris), and though Finral would never, ever want Finesse to feel like a burden or to feel guilty about being sick, I could imagine there is more of that feeling (at least from Finesse’s side) that he has given up a lot more to be with her since his active social life would drastically change as soon as they married.

There's also the matter of the panic Finral would probably have whenever Finesse was ill or having a flare of symptoms. Of course, Langris would be worried as well, but I think because of his personality, he is better able to shelve that and help in a crisis rather than Finral who gets really worked up and then just sort of shuts down. Obviously this is something that can be learned over time, but I just worry that it would be a constant source of stress for Finral which would ultimately make Finesse very worried about him and upset that he is upset on her account. I think Finesse would have a lot of fear that the life she could give a lively, busy, & social person like Finral would be holding him back in some way. The question there is really: will what Finral wants out of life ever gel with the limitations Finesse has to live with? Whereas I don't think that question is as much of an issue with Langris since he is an old soul and incredibly steady, very unlike his more restless, adventurous, and high-energy brother.

I think Langris and Finesse are alike in this way. Though they have many differences in their personalities (and a really nice balance there), they have a lot of similarities in worldview and their attitudes towards life and their life goals—being more traditional, formal, and proper ‘old souls.' Whereas I think she and Finral have more similarities in personality (despite him being much more lively), they’re both incredibly kind, gentle & easy-going people who aren’t particularly ambitious and often make decisions based on what will make other people happy and "keep the peace." But worldview wise he seems much more modern and less traditional than her which I could see causing some tensions since I think they want different things out of life, in a way. It’s almost more important to be alike in life goals/worldview than personality, I think.

I also think Finesse and Langris share common interests and genuinely enjoy each other's company (as we get these glimpses of in the anime where they're just having a quiet, comfortable tea parties together for instance). Even if it started off as an obligation to spend time together because of this arranged marriage they were going to be in, I like to think that eventually Langris and Finesse actually became fairly good friends and came to genuinely enjoy each other's company. I guess it’s a bit unfair to Finral to bring this up since we haven’t seen him spend a lot of time with Finesse so we can't say that they don’t enjoy each other’s company but I just don’t see them having the same shared interests that she would have with Langris.

There is a lot more I could say about these two and their relationship, but I think that's enough ramblings for now. If you read this all the way through to the end, bless you. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk. Cheers!! 💖

#i love them so so so much #langris vaude #finesse calmreich #langris vaude x finesse calmreich #finesse calmreich x langris vaude #finesse x langris #langris x finesse #i can't believe i never posted this (what is wrong with me?)

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ageofgeek · 10 months

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on second thought i dont really want ops notifs flooded w this so dont reply there if you must

Thank you! I don't want to clutter up OP either. My reply is somewhat long, so don't feel compelled to respond if you're not interested. But I wanted to get some of these thoughts off my chest.

So, to respond to your first point: "yeah but this is all operating under the assumption that they were ever intended to be ace rep, or rep for people who dont have sex. which is just an odd and very specific expectation to have for seemingly no reason, why them specifically? no one ever makes comments about het ships like this. all youre saying could be true but also could not be true. its just a really unecessary thing to insert into a post like this"

For one, Neil Gaiman has explicitly accepted the interpretation of Crowley & Aziraphale as ace and/or aro. He (and fans who HC A&C as ace) primarily bases this off of several lines in the book identifying angels and demons as "sexless." This has been interpreted by both Gaiman and fans as meaning that angels & demons are non-binary/agender (and rightfully so!). However, as Gaiman points out in his tweet, it is just as easy to interpret this as angels and demons literally not having an interest in sex.

So, if you're asking why some fans have latched onto A&C as ace rep, it's because (1) one of the authors of the book - and the creator and writer of the TV show - has explicitly identified asexuality as a possible interpretation, and (2) there is explicit textual evidence supporting such a reading. That doesn't seem like "seemingly no reason" to me.

As for it being unnecessary to go into ace discourse on such an innocuous post, I completely agree (so ty for sending this ask so it doesn't continue in OP's post). I understand my fellow ace fans' frustration or disappointment with the season 2 kiss, but it's unnecessary to be complaining about it in completely unrelated posts.

To your second point: "its kind of raining on someone elses parade when theyre excited abt azcrow just having been established as explicitly romantic in the show talking about their own interpretation of the two to make comments like that. the headcanons are fine on their own but read the room"

For the record, I ship Aziracrow in the TV show as romantic. I read them as romantic, I think they're explicitly canon as a romantic couple, and I think it's pretty difficult to deny that. I'm one of the people celebrating Aziracrow as canonically romantic! So I certainly hope that I'm not raining on my own parade. But just as you mentioned that "ace people can have sex," ace people can also be in romantic relationships. It's actually very common. It is completely valid - and moreover, compliant with TV canon - for fans to interpret Aziracrow as an asexual romantic relationship. And as I discussed above, there is Word of God and explicit textual support for this reading.

This is more tangential to your point, but I'd like to link this blog post by an ace GO fan and this post about GO non-binary rep. They both make the point that queer representation is not and has never been limited to two cis gay men in a romantic relationship. Relationships with non-binary people are queer. Ace relationships are queer. Queer-platonic relationships are, you guessed it!, queer. The relationship between Aziraphale and Crowley is inherently queer, regardless of how that relationship presents. This is true in the TV show, and it is true in the book, which was published over 30 years ago!

I am happy that Aziracrow kissed in season 2. I am happy with the direction the show is going. And yet, it's disappointing that some fans interpret the kiss as the "moment" that Aziracrow became romantically canon, or the "moment" that they became queer. Because for many fans - especially ace and non-binary/trans fans - they had been in a queer relationship all along! As that ace GO fan pointed out: "In our sex-steeped culture, the idea that deep, devoted love does not have to involve sex is unfathomable. It’s why the very existence of asexuality is questioned."

And if you HC Aziracrow as sexual beings, that's 100% valid! I'd be lying if I said I had never read Aziracrow smut. But I simply argue that an interpretation of Aziracrow as asexual is no more and no less valid.

#WOOF it's been a long time since i've written meta #good omens #good omens 2 #ineffable husbands #aziracrow #azcrow #asexuality #asexual #ace aziracrow #ace aziraphale #ace crowley #meta #rant #lgbtq #mine

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happyfeetfuryroad · 10 months

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You know what's weird?

The last minutes of Good Omens 2 episode 6 should have made me feel sad and frustrated, like the ending of season 1 of OFMD did a year ago. And yet, something is different this time.

Now, I would love to be able to tell that I remember the euphoria of being surprised to see Edward and Stede's kiss, but unfortunately I started watching the show after having all the important plot points spoiled, so while I was still absolutely delighted by it, I wasn't caught off guard like many other people were.

With Good Omens 2, I was only mildly spoiled, and I didn't know any details on what was going to happen in the final episode. The possibility of a kiss was kinda hanging out in the back of my mind, but I wasn't convinced that it would actually happen - and I knew that the ending was going to be angsty, so I was keeping my expectations relatively low.

But. Goddamn. When it actually happened, it was fucking electrifying.

It's weird because, I was never that deep into the ineffable husbands fandom to begin with. I'd read the book and watched season 1 and enjoyed them both, and it was pretty obvious to me that Aziraphale and Crowley were queer (Neil Gaiman never denied this, so it was an unusually drama-free situation too). I never really thought their relationship would escalate any further, because they were already self-evidently together and I didn't think they needed to "prove" it (and I still stand by this btw, I think in a healthy media ecosystem there is a place for subtle queerness that doesn't require any grand romantic gestures to prove its existence). So I kinda left it at that.

Then I started watching season 2, and I started feeling a specific kind of déjà vu. They (and by "they" I mean mostly Crowley) were doing the whole "side character calls them a couple and they adamantly deny it" act that was a signature of 2010s era queerbaiting (Sherlock being a particularly egregious example). However, I knew for a fact that Neil Gaiman wasn't queerbaiting - again, he had never denied the fact that Good Omens is, among other things, a love story, and there hadn't been a single no homo joke that you would expect from a queerbaiting writer - so I just kind of waved it off as a throwaway joke and forgot about it.

And then episode 6 came about. And Crowley began to tear up as he tried to let Aziraphale know how he felt about him.

Oh.

And then he and Aziraphale started arguing with each other about their future, and the tension started to build.

Oh.

And then Crowley said "you idiot. We could have been us."

OH-

And then the music swelled into an epic dramatic choir as Crowley angrily stepped closWAY TOO CLOSE AND-

And I... can't describe the rush of pure dopamine and adrenaline that I felt watching this scene unfold. It was unreal. My heart was pounding out of my goddamn chest. It felt fake. It had to be fake. This is the kind of shit that only ever happens in fanfiction. It was too good to be true.

Then the rest of the finale happened and it was awful but that's besides the point

And even though in a way it was the same feeling of "holy shit, they actually made the main characters kiss" I had with Edward and Stede, this was also very different.

See, Edward and Stede kissed in the same season they got introduced in, and there was no original material that the show was based on (I'm not counting the real life pirates because OFMD is a very loose interpretation anyway). You couldn't really know what you were getting into, so the protagonists completely skipped the queercoded part and jumped straight into "literal protagonists of a romcom" territory.

Aziraphale and Crowley, on the other hand, were already existing characters, in a book and a TV show where their relationship was already established as "queer enough for anyone who pays attention, but subtle enough for a casual viewer to be able to ignore it". Their kiss in season 2 wasn't there to confirm that they love each other, but to make it clear that there is passion in their love. There's that raw, visceral attraction that queer people are so often discouraged from displaying in public because it's seen as uniquely dirty or inappropriate (or predatory, when it's two people perceived as male).

And it's happening late enough into the story that a lot viewers who may be like "I'm fine with gays so long as it's not in my face" will be forced to digest it - but also early enough into the story that we have an opportunity to see how Crowley and Aziraphale's love story unfolds now that the chips are truly down. Which is why, personally, I was happy to see season two end on a cliffhanger.

So yeah. I think I'll go watch that scene for the twentieth time today.

#good omens 2 #good omens 2 spoilers #go2 spoilers #long post #i just have a lot of feelings i couldn't fit them all in this ramble #ineffable husbands

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deeaselriel · 10 months

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Why do people take the few interactions of Az & Gw*n and make it romantic or say that it hints their so called relationship, but completely deny THE OBVIOUS romantic coded scenes of Elriel? Those scenes where he goes basically to death FOR HER, the way she only opens up to him, their smiles and time spent together, the unusual ENERGY there is between them? That’s also mentioned by Feyre and not only. Even in ACOSF we have PLENTY of signs, but yeah, focus on the nonexistent ones bc y’all just want it SO BAD for Elain to not be with Az. That desperate you are!!LIKE WHY ON EARTH? Y’all just wrote EVERY SINGLE PARAGRAPH where Az’s & Gw*n’s name appear “together” and called it a day. Called it a “build up to their relationship”. Said it’s “so obvious they’re endgame”. No cuz I, ships aside & as someone that analyzes texts A LOT, I truly feel offended?! What books are y’all even reading? 😭😭😭😭 And how can y’all turn some simple interactions into some romantic sh!t that’s not?! It’s like saying that Feyre and Az have romantic feeling for each other bc they smile at eo or protect eo (Az more ofc). It’s plain… dumb? Like I’m sorry. 😂😂😂 What’s funny is that y’all don’t see (or pretend to not see maybe lol) the possible red flags & that whole light singer theory that actually makes sense. Now, that’s where you can say it’s hinted, cuz it happens TWO times; with different people. Guess who. 😂

No cuz as an Elriel girlie I have NO PEACE. On every single platform I’m bullied and I have things thrown at me that don’t even make sense. About this whole ship war. Read the f*cking books a billion times more and realize that YOU KNOW that Elriel is endgame, it’s just that the hatred for Elain is SO huge that y’all have to find any single reason to pair Az with someone else. And if I’m allowed, I’d go soo much more into detail about this whole Elain hatred movement, and say it as it is: Y’ALL HAVE INTERNALIZED MISOGYNY! On a scale that I can’t even pronounce it. And don’t say it’s not that, bc I SEE how y’all keep degrading her character bc she’s girly, feminine, sweet, kind, minds her business etc. Yall say she’s boring, but funny enough, she’s kinda just like Az, only that we know a little more about him. But yeah, she’s “boring” and “plain”, but he’s “mysterious” and “hot”. THE HYPOCRISY. I love them both to death, but y’all are HYPOCRITES and pick sides with d!ck having usually, and ONLY like women that have traits THAT MEN USUALLY HAVE. Explains why y’all complain all day and all night that Elain is not some warrior, doesn’t get all excited for fighting with swords or BEING A B!TCH! Cuz yeah, I also saw how much y’all like the mean asf characters. Makes me question a lot about y’all! 👀 It’s pretty telling for me what kind of people y’all are if you hate on a kind and feminine woman that minds her business. Like what on earth did she do so bad? Besides the things with Feyre, that even Feyre understood lmao, she’s a saint in comparison with the other characters. But she’s still the most hated in the fandom bc of misogyny and y’all can’t change my mind. I’ll repeat myself: ✨It’s ok to love ONLY b!tchy characters that are mean for whatever reason that fight left and right and have these traits that MEN usually have, but it’s OUTRAGEOUS to even LIKE someone that is FEMININE in every single way, that doesn’t put a sword in her hand and that is not a warrior 24/7✨This is how y’all sound. I guess y’all hate yourselves (aka women) so much that it results into this. SAAAAD. Y’all even invalidate Elain for killing the king of hybern, just like Nesta did and everyone around her. (El) SJM is teaching y’all a lesson through these books bc y’all put Elain down EVERY SINGLE SECOND OF YALLS PATHETIC LIVES. It’s in the books, if y’all wanna look. But it’s subtle asf, and it’s only for the ones that can interpret a book. Not for many of you I guess. 💀😂 Oh, and btw, SJM, the author herself said that out of all the characters Elain would be her best friend. She’s just that character that a normal human being would love to be around. Bc she’s chill, sweet and kind. She just brings so much peace around her. That’s the vibes. But ik, even with this y’all would disagree. 😂😂😂😂😂🙄 Bruh.

Whatever, I wrote so much and I don’t feel BAD AT ALL. Some things have to be said Ffs. Y’all are getting too brave for hating a genuine kind woman that likes to bake and plant flowers. 💀💀💀💀💀💀

Don’t even @ me or anything bc I know I’m right with everything I wrote here. And I have every right to also speak about this whole thing since many, MANY of you wished death to me, or told me I deserve to be R word just like my fave deserves. Aka Elain. Y’all are despicable people that don’t deserve sh!t and I hope karma gets y’all. 🌸🌸 The flower princess & the 👩‍🍳 of velaris says that we need to k!ll people with kindness. I think she’s a fan of Selena Gomez. 😂😂😂😂🌸✨ BYEEEEE.

#acotar #elain archeron #pro elain archeron

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linklethehistorian · 2 years

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Part 2: Thoughts on Canon Relationship with Arthur Rimbaud/Randou

[Read Part 1 here!]

Thoughts under the cut to allow people to avoid ship talk if it makes them uncomfortable. Also, spoiler warning for Fifteen and Storm Bringer (again).

If you want to know my educated opinion on if they canonically, romantically love each other or if it’s completely up for interpretation with no intent or confirmation inherently placed either way, well, to be honest, I don’t think ‘opinion’ is even necessary here.

Don’t get me wrong; people are always free to interpret stories as they like and make up their own headcanons to change or add to things according to their comfort zones, and I’m well aware that VerRim/Rimlaine as a ship can even be quite controversial to some due to the canonical abusiveness/unhealthiness of it, as well. Thus, it is entirely valid if someone else doesn’t want to view them as such, and/or has a different ship in mind. It always is. I, myself, ship BSD!Arthur with someone else in current time (even if I do ship Arthur and Paul in the past, up until post-Storm Bringer, for the angst factor), so I can even relate a little.

Hell, if you want to just make them siblings in your headcanons, or father and son, grandpa and grandson — you name it. I don’t care. I support you 100%. Go do your thing and have fun and write stories about it if you want. You absolutely have your right to do that. You don’t have to personally accept them as a romantic couple if you don’t want to.

That being said, I do think that anyone who outright tries to deny or convince others it isn’t the case that, at the very least, the two of them were clearly written with the intent on Asagiri-sensei’s part for them to have a heavily implied romantic relationship dynamic between them in his canon, really really is reaching too hard to justify their dislike for the ship and/or the people who ship them — because here’s the thing: VerRim isn’t like any other ship in the fandom; it is deeply, deeply rooted in historical fact, and again, as we all know, the author of BSD is extremely dedicated to doing heavy research into his characters’ namesakes and tying both key and subtler elements of their lives into their fictional counterparts. And it isn’t even like this is some obscure fact about them, either; their relationship was absolutely crucial to their history and deeply affected the works they produced. Whether you personally might think it’s for better or worse, historically and culturally, their relationship is every bit as famous if not more than their works alone. If it was just some small, obscure footnote in their lives of, “oh yeah, and I guess they quietly were romantically seeing each other for a few weeks or something”, then yeah, I’d say absolutely, there is a possibility there was no intent at all to have them have feelings for each other and it’s 100% up for interpretation, but they were neither quiet nor absurdly brief about their affair; even at the time, it was a pretty huge scandal, and is something they are actively remembered for. Literally as someone who, before the release of Storm Bringer and really, truly deep diving into the historical background of the characters, used to kind of get annoyed about people claiming they were a thing, it is beyond absurd to try to deny that their relationship didn’t actively, intentionally factor into the story Asagiri-sensei wrote surrounding them and get reflected in their relationship.

Furthermore, the subtext regarding it isn’t even subtle — especially in Storm Bringer (and with the Stage Play of said book, I dare say it hardly even qualifies as just ‘subtext’ anymore at all, personally, but that is a side note.)

I’m not going to address all of the examples here, as again, I feel that is something better saved for my article and its future follow-ups, where I can go into detail about it, but just for starters, when Paul is trying to understand the reason why Arthur saved his life and smiled at him even as he faded away, even after all of the betrayal, not only is it stated that Paul knew exactly why it was and that he just didn’t want to face it because it hurt too much, and not only is it something that remains some unspeakable answer the book never gives us directly, but it is also related to a memory of how shy Arthur was when handing him his birthday gift. Come on. Even separately from that context, what kind of person is going to get all shy about handing their ‘best friend’ of several years a birthday gift, unless they have some kind of feelings for them? Put that together with the aforementioned context and it is completely obvious what was meant there, just as it is obvious when Paul shuts himself away from the world for at least 6 years after losing Arthur because he is the only thing in the world he would ever care about, and stays and writes poems to him in the basement all of the time.

And yes, I agree, prior to the end of Storm Bringer, their relationship is canonically abusive and uncomfortable, and still to this day is utterly tragic. I agree. But that’s the point. That’s exactly how it was in real life. Horrible, complicated, sad — an utter mess.

So do I think that Asagiri-sensei intended them to be romantically involved? Absolutely, there’s not a shadow of doubt in my mind, though it’s clear it was (primarily) one-sided on Arthur’s part until the end of Storm Bringer, at which point Paul realized and returned his feelings far too late.

God, those two and the story surrounding them are so fascinating…

Anyway, I guess I’ll wrap this up for now. Thanks for reading!

#linklethehistorian #bsd #bungou stray dogs #bsd spoilers #paul verlaine #bsd paul verlaine #stormbringer #storm bringer #bsd novels #bsd stage play #fifteen #Thoughts #my thoughts #ask #anon #verrim #rimlaine

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gothhabiba · 2 years

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people are ragging a lot on the "now we're worse than exes—we're friends" line (often in comparison to Austen's "there could have been no two hearts so open, no tastes so similar, no feelings so in unison, no countenances so beloved. Now they were as strangers; nay, worse than strangers, for they could never become acquainted. It was a perpetual estrangement"). again, it's usually considered to be sufficient to merely put the two quotes next to each other and allow the analysis to do itself.

if any analysis is performed, it's to note how Anne would have loved to be friends with Wentworth in Austen's text, how strongly she lamented the loss of intimacy with him and how "friends" to her would have been far, far better than to be "perpetually estranged."

but since when is every word in a film meant completely literally? Anne says this line after she and Wentworth have had some (yeah, uncharacteristically open—but this is pretty common in period pieces) banter. Wentworth has said he wants to say something and Anne looks at him with hopeful heart eyes, only for it to turn out that what he wants is to be... friends. and she says oh. yeah. friends. sounds good. and then, with the two having just agreed to be friends, this... terribly awkward silence stretches out. the conversation is over.

it's clear from context that agreeing to be "friends" is a dead-end, an arresting of intimacy with the very motion that purports to continue it in a different (non-romantic) guise. they are not actually friends. the implication to me seemed to be that being "exes"—where the rupture is still apparent, where the site of conflict is visible and definable—is better than being "friends," where the rupture is denied to exist and is thus unnameable and irreparable. in its assertion that a non-stalemated position is better than a stalemated one, it's pretty similar to the import of Austen's line.

it's possible that I'm being overly generous here because I like to be a contrarian. but I'm not trying to proffer this as the Only or Correct interpretation of this line in the movie, so much as assert that merely comparing lines of dialogue to each other is insufficient. insofar as a movie is an audiovisual-textual medium that makes formal use of camerawork, acting, line delivery, context, set direction, &c. &c. in addition to dialogue to deliver information, you do need to actually analyse the entire scene if you want to take issue with a film's interpretation of something.

#Persuasion #Jane Austen #adaptation

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themelodicenigma · 11 months

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Are you seriously trying to say that seeing fang and vanille as romantic is invalid? This is fandom, there are NO ships that are invalid and not being able to see Fanille as romantic specifically just means you're either homophobic or blind! The only reason you talk about Dion is just because you can't deny it, you have no choice

***This will be a long post, but I will say one thing to be considered outside of what otherwise is a long address to your behavior below, so this can be considered as I move forward for even other readers:

The heart of my main point is that Fang and Vanille have no material that doesn't fit within the context that has been abundantly given to them. Flat out. This has no bearing on how many boxes they can fit into for certain aspects of their actions/relationship (i.e. handholding can have a functionality in many contexts), but what is clear is that they're at least still at home in the one created specifically for them, with context that has no deviation from said meaning definitively or even lesser, convincingly.

Thing is—if someone has an interpretation that doesn't directly coincide with information at every single turn, as if it's all just wrong by the means of your thinking, that the information has no significance and is basically a lie in what it's pointing to, continuously, all the way to the end of the series, while it still has no other information to definitively or full proof, logically conclude it as false—maybe you should either change the configuration of your thinking, or just, include it, and just have both the understanding of "what is" AND your own personal desire and thoughts. And if you think you're correct, or just most likely correct with room for possibility of something else on a technical ground, then find better ways to actually convey that than the anon above.

Now, as for the ask:

I don't really know why you cut off there, but I'm not even going to link the 2nd part of the ask—this is all I need.

"Are you seriously trying to say that seeing fang and vanille as romantic is invalid? This is fandom, there are NO ships that are invalid"

Nope, not in the way you mean it anyway.

"Seeing them as romantic" is exactly what it is—it's not "invalid" in the way of human thought, to feel or interpret it as freely as you want to, as anyone ever has. Like, as a thing you can just do. That is part of what fandom is for. Nothing can stop someone from applying romanticism other than themselves, and it's application is FAR and WIDE, hence why it happens for even the most unconventional and taboo ships a lot. Like, a lot. Ships of which you hypocritically would most likely turn around and bash someone else for if you happened to disagree with it. I've seen it too often to not also notice how it's in the same wheel house as your behavior. Step into particular circles in the FF7 fandom and "double standard" would be the name of your game.

So, to be clear: not once have I ever indicated that people CAN'T/SHOULDN'T ship couples if they're not actually canonically romantic. In which case, I would define canonically romantic as any pairing of which has romanticism applied to them directly or through reliable subtext—endgame doesn't matter in that sense of the "true" of positive romantic tonality.

However, any actual stance I would ever take or conclusion I'd draw will mostly align with a critical, close understanding of the characters and story, with a complete recognition of what's more personal interpretation on my part vs. what I'd recognize is supported information and a better conclusion. The only reason I'd say a ship isn't "valid" in retrospect to the product in itself is if I'm arguing it isn't confirmed or reasonably conclusive of having the mentioned romantic tones applied—but that's validity in terms of the strict understanding of the characters and story functionality, that's NOT about one's ability to simply see the material in favor of romanticism. It's not the same thing or the same argument unless you're directly trying to debate that something IS romantic in functionality and meaning. The "I can see why people ship this" isn't really evidence in and of itself, now if it was part of a thought of how I'd argue there ARE romantic tones, directly or subtextly, then I'd be doing a lot more than what I've personally seen Fanille shippers do, or many shippers or those who romanticize them for that matter. And even within it, I'd still be exploring all options within all information and reasoning that would back up the claim.

This is the exact reason why, for instance, despite being a hardcore Aqua/Terra shipper who absolutely indulges in romantic interpretations of the characters, I'll still be the first person to also say there's not any actual solid romanticism written for them (yet), and what's there still easily fits within what HAS been described for them and exists as supported understanding of their relationship.

Some stories are straight forward and allow this to be easy, even if through reasonable Occam's Razor. Some are not, in which case I would even conclude that there's no definitive answer of where it falls. Within the confines of human thought, such as "people can think this is romantic" and I can see how, based on what I understand for how people can romanticize things (whether it's something I personally see too or not)—this isn't going to tilt the scale over the direct evidence that supports one conclusion over the other, though.

It's not that it's unreasonable to ship Fang and Vanille, but I do think it's unreasonable to not accept what the material has shown and spoken for when it also hasn't shown or spoken for it to be treated as inaccurate. Specifically, if what it's saying and what shows falls "deaf" on your ears or you're intentionally blocking it out because of your own personal history/perspective as opposed to a fair understanding, that's something for YOU to figure out, that isn't my problem, or the materials problem. But mostly, it's unreasonable be the kind of person you are—which is exactly the kind of people I've seen ever since the first game even came out.

I mean:

"not being able to see Fanille as romantic specifically just means you're either homophobic or blind"

Seriously?

Is there ever going to be a moment where people don't seriously see the hypocrisy? There's the idea of "letting people ship" (as if it could ever be stopped) or to "accept there are different perspectives", and yet, from my long experience in the FFXIII since it's creation, I've seen the complete opposite MORE from people who ship/see romanticism between Fang and Vanille. I see it within your words.

You COULD be the person I talked about: "I can see this happening between a couple but also know it can happen without it".

Instead, you're literally a hypocrite, and are more the "how can anyone POSSIBLY think differently than I do as it's the ONLY explanation that could exist"

People like you are only worried about the word "invalidation" when it preserves your own thoughts. I've seen it many times. If you REALLY wanted to talk about the material, you'd do that. If you REALLY wanted to challenge my reasoning and argue that it's flawed, you would do that.

But you don't. That's not what you did.

You really think Fang and Vanille sleeping next to each other due to the latter's trauma is a part of their "romantic code"? Then tell me how—tell me how the actual presentation of this information in the novel from both Fang and Vanille's perspectives, the scene with Sazh in the game, and the plethora of other information that paints a complete different picture of the tonality of this meaning for their relationship is wrong and/or less reasonable than "it means they're fucking".

You really think two people who've lived together the majority of their lives, are a close-knit family (that was even ostracized from their "old" family), and are thrown in a world unlike their own with people still unlike them—wouldn't still stick together and represent this common meaning in media? Okay, then present your through the logic then, go through the logic of how this possibly isn't normal in media that has fantastical settings, where the characters themselves already have unconventional lives to begin with, and how it's unlikely that it would be written without romanticism in mind.

YOU put in the work and actually talk about it, and realize the difference in what's your own indulgent interpretation vs. a more strict understanding of what everything is. You think it's fact? Prove it. You think it's the more reasonable conclusion? Prove it.

But you won't, no one has.

People like YOU are the ones who insist your personal interpretation IS the truth without even a conversation about the topic to create an environment where it can be logically and cohesively discussed to even be evaluated. Your literal conclusion about ME and the characters in this Ask is created solely on the different understanding alone and your own ugliness. Where's the conversation about the actual material?

Because things like the above, they're all the conclusions you've drawn on your own, and you have your own reasons, but you sure as hell didn't get there in a discussion with me, so don't act like I'm the one with the problem for not being convinced to take your opinion over my own understanding.

Your thoughts weren't made concrete to me by actually TALKING about the characters or the story, evidence, or the scene WITHOUT inserting your personal spin on what the characters are doing—it's just straight to an irrational notion and accusations that are child-like. YOU are the one who showed no attempt at being reasonable.

But no, it's YOUR interpretation that is valid without breathing room or understanding of other reasonable thought, it's YOURS that should be coddled and at the forefront within fandom, and everyone else that says different is WRONG because if they don't see it the way you do, then they're the worst possible things.

While there are definitely things that I believe are dumb, like your behavior, I have never said that the idea of shipping Fang and Vanille is dumb. It's never been the crux of my understanding. I actually have a lot of thoughts about the specific nature of that topic, of which I've actually barely touched upon in the things I've written, because I haven't said them. You have no idea and that's not my problem.

Why?

It's not what I wanted to concentrate on and don't have to, nor what I wanted people to address in discussion by creating the posts I did. Rather, I mostly want to talk within a more strict view of who the characters are and what the material has to say about them. I'm going to use evidence, and bounce that back to the material itself to gain an understanding that already COULD have been interpreted anyway. Doing this, I've even changed how I understand other character relationships because then I was able to understand what I MYSELF thought was actually counteractive to the evidence itself, even if I personally still felt a certain way.

When you just have a showcase of your ability to interpret character actions/motivations in a romantic/sexual light (which typically encompass describing it in a way that didn't ACTUALLY happen), which is super easy to do and is literally acting within the way of "not seeing a different perspective"—of course I'm not going to take what you're saying over what the material is saying and how it DOES fit with THAT understanding over yours. I'm also not going to respect you coming at me for having the ability to do this either.

So, when it's said that:

"you're homophobic if you don't see romance"

"there's no heterosexual explanation for them"

"you're just being heteronormative"

I mean, what? Do you think I'm going to say "you're correct" on any of these things without a second thought? Because you're not—and I'm not going to broadcast that as an opinion. You're just wrong. And you can find out why by having a conversation about myself, and we can have a conversation about the actual material, thought processes, what I perfectly find reasonable or not, etc. We CAN talk about just your personal opinion as well, but you're too busy being an offensive, childish hypocrite that needs to act like you got some damn sense.

And that's the thing, this isn't new. The game's been out for over a decade. I've seen all I've needed to see in how people talk about Fang and Vanille—I've done the research and found the information all myself, I did my part. I talk about Fang and Vanille also BECAUSE of fans like you, to take down misconceptions and provide full context on the characters in an otherwise hyper-aggressive environment where shipping and/or romanticism is considered above even the ability to have a decent conversation. Because strutting around just saying "they're lesbians" wouldn't be as bad if you weren't doing it WHILE you degrade anyone who sees differently, without any attempt at understanding the material itself without brushing it off without critical, fair thinking, and if you actually had a conversation with me, all these words of "not seeing a different perspective" would be proven to be untrue immediately.

#oerba yun fang #oerba dia vanille #ffxiii #shipping #fandom

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storm-priestess · 2 years

Text

PAID READING FAQ

Paid readings are open! here are some general rules:

payment through paypal is the preferred method

feedback is always appreciated!

yes/no questions are highly discouraged; please rephrase them in a way that leaves more interpretation (ex: “do they have romantic feelings for me?” → “how would they feel about pursuing a romantic relationship with me?”)

questions regarding the timing of a situation are generally discouraged, although they can be added as a sort of side question to a reading (for no additional charge) if you are okay with vague answers (i.e. “when this other situation passes” or “relatively quickly” are common answers i get for these questions)

refunds are ONLY given if very few messages are coming through, to the point where i feel there is little in the reading to justify the price. therefore, please do not rely on the possibility of a refund as it is up to me as a reader

questions delving beyond my level of comfort will sadly be denied. these include but are not limited to:

inquiries regarding an existing relationship that you are not a part of

health or legal questions

To book a reading:

look at the options below and pick whichever one best suits your inquiry

email me at [email protected] to secure your spot!

upon receiving your email i will respond with a few questions to gather context and connect with your energy

payment will be made through paypal upon completion of the above step

once payment is received i will begin your reading and send it to you within 3 days (if there is a foreseen issue with time on my end i will make it known before payment is sent)

once the reading is completed, a picture or video of the final card spread plus a PDF interpreting the spread will be sent to you.

small and simple clarifications (i.e. inquiries about the overall energy of a reading, what a specific aspect of the reading is referring to, etc) are fine! just email me with your questions after you receive the original reading!

as i continue i will most likely alter these, but here are the main options:

♡°◌̊ LOVE READING ♡°◌̊ - $15

The love reading will be based around any love-related inquiry of your choosing. This involves questions concerning existing romantic or platonic relationships, theoretical, or even self love. examples:

what are their feelings for me?

what does our future look like together?

what do they want to say to me?

what do i need to know about my self love journey?

✦*͙*❥⃝∗⁎.ʚ GENERAL READING ɞ.⁎∗❥⃝**͙✦ - $15

For the general reading, basically anything not love-related is okay (except anything breaching the guidelines listed above, of course):

general reading for school life in the next 6 months

career/work life

what would future you want you to know?

what do your guides want you to know?

✧˖*✧˖*✧˖ FUTURE SPOUSE READING ✧˖*✧˖*✧˖ - $20

The future spouse reading delves into life with your future spouse. You may pick 3 of the following questions:

their personality/character traits

ways that you can recognize them

where you will meet

their love language

physical appearance

18+ details of your love life (this counts as 2 questions, since it’s bit more broad of a topic)

activities you do together

daily life in your marriage

If you think of any other questions, you can run them by me in your email!

#paid readings #faq #reading rules #rules #tarot pac #pac #pickacard #pick a card

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onewomancitadel · 1 year

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It was on my mind again recently and I suppose I'll be completely straightforward about my feelings on the matter: yes, I agree with the usual refrain that 'the Pyrrha problem' is a problem I imagine could be on the storytellers' minds. (Not as a personal moral objection, I mean this in a sense of trying to divine intentions).

I'm familiar enough with crude narrative that it's never something I genuinely write off particularly because you can never account for inconsistency; it might be consistent up to a point. It may be that Jaune was depicted in one way and all the characters were depicted in one way and Cinder's given an exclusive treatment. It may be that previous events are recontextualised. Obviously I think hyperfocussing on Pyrrha herself is moral inconsistency (Cinder has done much more offensive things that could potentially be more damning, though in other villains' cases this was not the case) but that's beside the point. It's an emotional touchstone.

For another comparison, I may contend that the relationship Weiss has with Huntsmen of the Snow White story (including herself being the Huntress, and her Summon) is not romantic in nature because there are so many Huntsmen and so many Evil Queens (the Maidens), and there's not been a fashion that one Huntsman has been distinguished over another the way Yang is the defined Beauty to Blake's Beast, but that doesn't mean it might not be recontextualised. I genuinely cannot call that. I can only make my interpretation off what we have so far and I can't prepare for a narrative tailspin... I also can't prepare for the fact that all the romances may be so - they may all be Ozlem-like - and they pull out Jaune/Weiss because of narrative crudeness or complacency. I genuinely do not know. That relationship breaks the Jungian framework of course... but again you can't account for crudeness.

The big 'if' of Knightfall is about if the series does continue to be thematically consistent and straightforward and if they deliver on particular established ideas and if the mythic storytelling continues to serve as a relevant framework and if all of its narrative assertions apply equally to Jaune and Cinder so they're not an exceptional case.

The case for Knightfall is effectively a case for R/WBY. That's the really exciting thing for me. It's not something that is only about personal interest. To me it is something that speaks to something fundamental in R/WBY. You can't read Knightfall without Cindemption and you can't read that without Ozlem and you can't read any of that without engaging with the heart of the story.

But I do allow that I'm otherwise pretty cynical about the matter. It's a big 'if' to ask a story to be consistent. It's a big 'if' to ask them to write a romance like Knightfall that as most people know is not a popular one. On the other hand there is that part of me that contends certain narrative decisions which whilst well-reasoned were certainly shocking commitments and Knightfall seems to tonally align with that. As an ultimate narrative resolution towards the end of the show... something shocking, potentially even offensive, but hopeful, aligning with the story's thematic goals, is so grossly appropriate to what R/WBY is at its core that in some ways the offensiveness of it is actually convincing itself.

So it's a topic I remain conflicted about, because no, but yes.

I'm not someone who's going to deny what's in front of me, though, and that's one strength I like to think that I have - I'm not going to be arguing for Knightfall if it's obvious it can't happen. There's every possibility some of this applies and some of it doesn't - that's the difficulty of prediction, because there is human error, human assumptions... but that is also the fun, I suppose.

But again there's that element. No one's writing Knightfall to cater to anybody, it's not something they can possibly seek to 'subvert' or write out in any way. It really only can be something that is justified by the narrative. It is meant to be shocking and weird but make perfect sense and seem like the only way their character arcs were meant to go.

So the argument against it is simultaneously the argument for it.

#knightfall #which is itself appropriate because the idea of opposite ideas held at once and reconciled is... R/WBY... and ETL romance lol

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wallofweird · 2 years

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For saying Mike's sexuality comes down to opinions at this point, you certainly go out of your way to say Mike leans more toward bi or pan in canon.

While I agree with a lot of what you said, you overlooked info that goes against your opinion too. Mike hasn't looked at any other girls, but he has looked at another boy. We get this with Eddie and we're in his POV in the wrestling room when he's looking at the boys there too. Also, during the lingerie scene, Lucas is the focus of the shot whereas Mike is when they look inside the sauna.

Mike can be any sexuality at this point. Until they come out and tell us, no one knows. But please don't pretend that there isn't a staggering amount of evidence that supports Mike being gay.

I went out of my way to say Mike leans more towards bi or pan because I made >>>>ONE<<<< POST THAT DARED TO RECOGNIZE ALL THE POSSIBILITIES? LOL, ok.

And I wasn't saying that I personally think he leans more towards bi or pan, I was saying right now the show has only hinted at him having feelings for El AND Will. CANON is yet to explicitly debunk the idea he's had romantic attraction/feelings for El. Because right now they have suggested they have simply outgrown their relationship. If Mike doesn't say anything like "I love El and she's one of my best friends and I think I got confused and thought that it meant I was in love", then there isn't really any confirmation he's never felt anything for her and people can interpret it the way they want. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. Gay, bi, pan, ace, aro Mike or whatever... It would all make sense.

Mike looking at Eddie is open to interpretation, too. I get it how people think he had a crush on Eddie and I think that maybe he did, but I'm just not 100% sure. Because I think Eddie is just one of those characters with a killer presence and Joseph is one of those actors that knows how to own a scene, a stage and makes hundreds of people just look at him and him only. I personally was completely mesmerized watching his monologue, smiling like an idiot and without blinking because my mind was blown. I looked just like Mike. But I particularly don't find Eddie attractive (even if I'm attracted to men too), it was simply admiration. And I believe everybody in the room was sort of hypnotized and smiling like an idiot because of his presence, Dustin (Gaten) and the other guest stars, not just Mike (Finn).

Obviously, it could totally mean that he had a crush on Eddie too, he would definitely react that way if he did, but sometimes you just see a person that is really charming and talented and you look at them with admiration, not exactly attraction. Whatever it was, I can just affirm that he was impressed by Eddie. Now was it a crush or simply adoration? Who knows.

And he could totally be gay too because, again, the only thing I'm sure is that he has fallen/been falling in love with Will, but the show has never really explored Mike's sexuality and romantic life? They gave him Eleven and Will. There isn't any other girl around his age except for Max and maybe Suzie. But there are tons of other students in his school and we don't know how he's felt about them, regardless of their gender? And here are notes from the Duffers saying that his arc was falling in love with El and I heard something about how the first episode initially mentioned he had a crush on another girl or something? I mean, I don't know about that and as long as the writers don't make it clear, they can remove things from the scripts and change without affecting the story... But the show, the writers and/or Finn haven't explicitly denied Mike's attraction for girls. So if they haven't done that (yet), I can't do that either. I can say that I think he's gay, or bi, or pan etc, but I CAN'T CONFIRM unless someone with authority in the matter says so. That was my whole point.

And I don't know where you guys are seeing Mike interested in the guys in the steaming room. He looked uncomfortable to me and the fact some of you see lust or whatever in there feels like sexualizing a young boy for me. I don't think Mike, Will or anyone else in the party have gotten to that point yet, specially on season 3 when they were barely teens. If they have, they haven't shown it (and I hope they never will tbh).

I never pretended that there isn't evidence to Mike being gay, there are tons and for me it's a pretty solid headcanon. Like I said, the only person I'm sure he's really had strong romantic feelings for is WILL. So the only things I'm adamant about is that and the fact he isn't straight. With El, I'm still not sure and I want to re-watch the show to see if I come to a conclusion. I just said that it isn't set on stone, some of your 'arguments' could mean that he's gay AND/OR SOMETHING ELSE and sometimes people on the tag sound excluding and low-key offensive.

#byler #funny how everything was cool when everyone was using 'gay' but the moment someone was asked people to simply ACKNOWLEDGE other options #HELL BROKE LOOSE #nobody is telling you to stop hcing him as gay just to recognize he could be something else? will that hurt you or anything?#funny how i don't see bi/pan/ace/aro mike truthers being this aggressive on everyone's asks

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