#tim being the way he is in context of Dick being his favorite and the robin he aspired to be like the most makes a lot more sense | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

coupleoffanfics · 9 months

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Part 2- y/n becomes a child

Part 1 Here

She seems to be a big fan of cats. Anything with Hello Kitty on it she wants. Will run up to stray cats trying to pet them no matter how many times they tell her not to. “They could have a disease.” “But they’re so cute!”

Doesn’t fully understand when she says, “I’m looking for my parents. We’re playing hide and seek, I don’t really like playing it. I wanted played sequence. My dad must have helped my mom with her hiding spot because I can usually find her first. Once I find them we’ll go back home to my baby and older brother.”

Hearing this Damian goes to Bruce for answers. He knows of everyone’s upbringing, but he often overlooked y/n in the past. Something about her mentally blocking her parents' death. Bruce only says parents, so it makes him wonder whether or not…It doesn’t matter. He just makes sure that he won’t bring up her parents or try to convince her that Bruce was her father anymore. Or that he and the others were her real brothers.

Dick will bring y/n to the water park, zoo, etc for some bonding time. Trying to dethrone Jason’s spot of being her favorite. When going out this usually results in Damian tagging along. Though surprisingly y/n doesn’t like going out as much, so Dick tries to find another way to connect with her.

It's getting late and while in her pajamas jumps down each step of the stairs. Dick notices the book in her hand and offers to read it to her before bed. Look him straight in his eyes to say no and ask if he knew where Jason was.

He lied by saying that he already left even though he was down in the cave and he’ll just take Jason’s place as bedtime reader. She reluctantly agreed. Everything is fine until the story ends. She looks like she is going to burst into tears and he panics. The story didn’t have a sad ending or anything. It was just a frog and toad book.

Asking what was wrong, y/n looks at him. “They’re gone and they’re never coming back are they?” He doesn’t respond, the look of pity in his eyes was enough for her to start balling her eyes out. Crying for her parents. When he is going to get up to get Bruce she eminently freaks out.

“No! Please don’t leave. I don’t want to be left alone. Don’t leave me alone again!” Dick gets so emotional seeing his little sister desperately begging him to not be all alone. He stays behind and comforts her. Not leaving her side once.

The context of how they unintentionally neglected her when she got older made guilt build up.

After that y/n is more open with Dick and starts to follow him around a bit. Jason raises his eyebrow but doesn’t say anything. Dick would be a better influence than him regardless of how bitter it made him feel.

Tim doesn’t go out of his way to interact with little y/n. Though she does come up to him to share what food she has. She will not leave him alone unless he has some of her snacks. Reminding him of when she was done cooking/baking, she’d force him to take a taste test before anyone else.

She’ll go out into the garden to catch butterflies. Will not take a net no matter how many times it's offered. Damian sits back watching her as she creeps up on butterflies like a cat. Every time she goes up to him and asks if he knew what butterfly it is.

Doesn’t have a clue, but after that, he’ll look up all the different butterflies. Their names and small facts about them for next time. y/n inadvertently made Damian a butterfly wiki.

There will be sudden fits where she wants to paint someone’s nails. Goes up to the first person she’ll see. Place the Hello Kitty nail polish bag on the table and ask them, “What color do you want? Sparkly or no sparkle?” There isn't anyone that can say no.

So everyone in the manor will have painted nails. Bruce is in a business meeting, everyone sees his black-painted nails but doesn’t say a thing. If anyone were to ask he’d hold up a hand to show off and explain that his daughter wanted to paint his nails. He is expressionless the whole time, but if they looked hard enough then they could see the smile in his eyes.

Babs and Dick definitely take a few photos of y/n and send them to each other. It’s not every day that adult y/n allows others to photograph her. Now that she is a child without too many insecurities this allows them to take as many photos as possible.

Speaking of Babs, she’s just like Tim and Bruce. Doesn’t go out of her way to interact with her because she doesn't see the reason to do so. It’s fine after a few days until she starts missing adult y/n. The one who brings up random topics and has late-night texts with.

Wonders if she should inform y/n’s friend and boyfriend about this since they’ve been reaching out a lot. But decided against it. y/n is in a vulnerable state of mind and having even more “strangers” interact with her should just be avoided. Barb tells them that she’s broken her phone and is taking care of her sick auntie who is overseas. She makes up an elaborate lie and now y/n’s friend and boyfriend think she has an Italian auntie named Bianca Bellagamba.

One day Dick gets a drawing that he’s always dreamed of. A crayon drawing of his hero persona that had My #1 hearo! Everyone can see him internally squealing.

Everyone got a similar drawing, but she handed his drawing to him first. So obviously he’s the favorite brother and she clearly put more effort into his drawing.

Only Dick and Damian have thought of sabotaging the progress of returning y/n back to normal a few times. They’d be able to keep her in the manor safe and be able to rewrite their mistakes. Jason has thought of this too once, but he knew that it wasn’t right for y/n if they kept her like this.

The only reason Dick and Damian didn’t do anything as everyone was dead set on getting adult y/n back. Even if they were to sabotage their progress, it would just slow them down.

When y/n is turned back to normal she doesn’t remember anything after she was turned into a child. This breaks Dick’s heart more than it does Damian’s. Dick was making so much progress with y/n and now it's completely erased. Damian took this more as a way to understand and learn more about y/n.

y/n awkwardly thanks them before shuffling out manor. Babs will send the pics of little y/n to her later.

Most of the family’s view of y/n doesn’t change except for Dick and to a lesser extent Jason’s. Dick will see y/n even more as a child now. That one night when she begged to not be left alone again will motivate him to reach out to her. Spend more time together to make up for his absence.

Jason might view her a little more like a child, but he already saw her as one. Though this whole fiasco has made him a bit more protective of y/n. When out, he’ll check on her apartment just to make sure that she’s safe at home. If he finds her out for whatever reason when he’s on patrol then he’ll follow her until she gets back home safely.

Damian knows that little and older y/n aren’t exactly the same. It would be stupid to do so because she could grow out of things and has developed as a person. When he breaks into her apartment for a visit he’ll have a type of Hello Kitty memorabilia. y/n clearly hasn’t grown out of her love for the cat with a bow as the next time he breaks in, he sees that she kept the gift.

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silverwhittlingknife · 2 years

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In issue # 110 of Nightwing (1996), why did Dick look irritated (and clench his fist) when Tim told him that Bruce considered adoption (which Tim rejected obvs), especially since Tim's dad was killed (and Dick knows that)?

ANON YOU HAVE ASKED ABOUT ONE OF MY FAVORITE ISSUES OF NIGHTWING OF ALL TIME <333

Very short answer: it's the trauma

So the thing is, this is a heartbreaking issue that requires a lot of footnoting, because the emotional undercurrents are BIG and POWERFUL but the dialogue is deliberately understated?? and Dick and Tim are often not saying what they mean?? or just straight-up lying to each other?? and they're TALKING PAST EACH OTHER because

they both suck at communication

they are not even TRYING to communicate their actual problems - like, if Tim straight-up said, "A bunch of people I love are dead and I keep having nightmares about how it's my fault and I'm guilty and miserable and lonely and avoiding Bruce and I came to your city because I was reeling and I missed you and I didn't know what else to do and now I'm scared you're mad at me," that would crack through Dick's determination to keep his distance because Dick's whole thing here is based on the conviction that Tim is fine, but of course Tim doesn't say any of that, and Dick can't read his mind. And Dick's not quite as determined a liar as Tim so Tim is able to figure out a little more of what's going on with Dick vis-a-vis insecurities, but Tim's still completely missing what a colossal mess Dick is right now, and again: this is because he's not a mind-reader and Dick doesn't tell him! And doesn't want to tell him! And doesn't want him to know! So Tim thinks that Dick's maybe acting this way because he's mad at Tim, and he tries to solve the problem from that angle, even though that's not at all what's going on and actually Dick's miserable and traumatized and mad at himself

I love it so much

So the short-ish answer to your question is, Tim's correctly guessed at some of Dick's insecurities here. Dick's not mad that Tim's in the city, but Tim's right that the adoption was a big deal to Dick, and he's right that Dick's a little threatened by the idea of Tim getting adopted too. (This wouldn't normally be the case! But Dick was kinda uneasy about Tim in the early days when his own relationship to Bruce felt very shaky, and right now Dick's feeling like he's lost Bruce again, and when he's insecure about himself he tends to slide into seeing Tim as a rival - both in vigilante terms and in terms of a connection to Bruce.)

And probably the main reason Dick's so stunned - and a bit angry - here is because Bruce didn't tell him, and although this is very different from Bruce not telling him about adopting Jason... it's still jabbing at those old wounds.

BUT THE LONGER ANSWER is important! Dick loves Tim, a lot!! SO MUCH. He watches Tim sadly from a distance and thinks about how much he loves him in this very comic! So why isn't Dick more enthusiastic about the potential adoption? Why is he skulking around in alleys being miserable and self-destructive and avoiding Tim so determinedly that Tim's convinced he's offended Dick somehow? What's going on???

Well, Dick's life has been imploding.

So to really answer your question, we have to back up a bit and get the context of what's going on with Dick and Tim prior to this comic.

I started writing about this and it got way out of hand, so below please find a guide to my four-part manifesto about Nightwing 110 and what's going on and why I think it's great:

Background: Dick + Tim + Trauma Conga Lines

Background: War Games Aftermath

Nightwing 110

Fix-It Fic Ideas

rambling manifesto is below the cut

Background: Dick + Tim + Trauma Conga Lines

Images: a reporter is shot and killed in front of Dick in N 93; a few days later, Darla is shot and killed in front of Tim in R 129; a blood-covered Dick turns from Blockbuster's body in N 93; a blood-covered Tim stares at his father's body in IC 6

Timeline-wise, we're in The Bad Year for Dick and Tim. Dick's life has been FALLING APART. Blockbuster figured out his secret identity and started murdering his entire supporting cast: Blockbuster hired someone to attack Haly's Circus, blew up Dick's entire apartment building, and shot a reporter in front of Dick. In the climactic confrontation, Catalina Flores killed Blockbuster and raped Dick.

More or less simultaneously in War Games, Tim's life has ALSO been falling apart and his supporting cast has been getting gruesomely murdered. In quick succession, Jack figured out Tim's secret and Tim had to quit, Steph got hired and fired as Robin; Steph accidentally started a gang war; Darla got shot and killed in front of Tim during the gang war; Steph got killed by Black Mask; and Jack Drake got killed by Captain Boomerang.

It's a grimdark time in DC comics.

Background: War Games Aftermath

Dick's slowly recovering in the Manor as Bruce recaps recent events to him (Batman 634)

Now, Dick's actually part of War Games - very briefly. A day or two after Blockbuster's death, Bruce calls Dick for help, and Dick comes to Gotham. Dick and Tim briefly interact but Gotham is in flames, they're both freaking out, and they don't really help each other - Tim tries to tell Dick about Darla, and Dick shuts him down (not realizing Darla is actually Tim's friend); Dick has a panic attack in front of Tim and Tim drags him out of danger but gets snappish instead of worried.

AND THEN, midway through the gang war, Dick gets shot in the leg and ends up in a coma for a while. By the time he's recovered enough to wake up and walk around, Steph's dead, Jack's dead, the funerals are over, and Tim - who's avoiding Bruce - has moved to Blüdhaven.

Here's Dick trying to get answers out of Alfred in Nightwing 99 (Alfred and Bruce aren't telling him anything, either because they can't stand to talk about it or because they're worried about impeding his recovery):

Somewhere around here - presumably whenever he first learns about Jack's death? - Dick calls Tim, who doesn't pick up, in IC 7:

In Nightwing 99, it's implied that Dick leaves the Manor almost as soon as he wakes up, after confronting Bruce:

Dick can't bring himself to confess Blockbuster's death, but obliquely admits his own distress: "…Bruce, I'm lost." Bruce wants to solve things by throwing themselves into The Mission in Gotham: "It's just you and me again, Dick. But there's plenty of work to do." As he talks, Dick grabs his crutches and leaves. He confronts Catalina, arrests her, and tries to turn himself in... but Amy doesn't let him. As he's walking out, angry at Amy and at himself, a prisoner offers him a card.

Meanwhile, in the Batcave, Alfred's stunned to discover that Dick's abandoned his costume:

In Nightwing 107, we learn that Dick has ditched everything and apparently joined the mob - or is he undercover? Dick ultimately comes up with justifications for what he's doing, but a lot of what he's doing is punishing himself and hiding from his life. He's in Detroit for a while, but then has to go back to Blüdhaven, where he sees Tim...

...and now we're caught up with Nightwing 110.

Nightwing 110

I haven't had a chance to see Robin in action since the beginning of the gang wars in Gotham. It seems like just yesterday he was an earnest little computer geek too smart for his own good. He's still too smart for his own good and he can still kick butt with a search engine, but now he's a full-fledged superhero, to boot. Wonder if he knows how good he is? Not just at the fighting, but at keeping the whole thing on his terms. That's really hard to do, and Tim - he's been through so much, and weathered it so well.

Dick's been staying mostly in Detroit rather than Blüdhaven for various reasons, but one very important one is that he's been avoiding Tim.

Dick and Tim's relationship always suffers when Dick's self-worth issues get in the way, and this is probably the most dramatic moment AND IT'S SO SAAAAAD *wails*

From very early on, Dick has had a very high opinion of Tim, and - like Bruce's conviction that "you're better than me, Dick" - this is

very heartwarming and an expression of Dick's faith in Tim

very important to Tim, who tries really hard to impress Dick and (like Dick) hangs a lot of his self-worth on being needed and useful

a source of many sweet moments

but also

a source of problems in their relationship, because Dick's high opinion of Tim and low opinion of himself means he consistently underestimates how important he is to Tim, wonders if Tim would be better off without him, and sometimes thinks that keeping his distance is good for Tim so that Dick doesn't bring him down... and meanwhile Tim interprets Dick's distance as disapproval or hostility

When Dick's down on himself, he'll continually compare himself unfavorably to Tim - Tim questions more, Tim's better with Bruce, Tim's got better computer skills, etc. etc.

And that's what's happening here, when Dick watches Tim fight from a distance:

Dick: Still, Timmy played it through nice and clean. Disarmed the perps, protected and avoided the cops, kept any civilians from being shot... God, I love that kid. Too much to let him see me like this.

This isn't a neutral assessment of Tim's skills. This is Dick castigating himself. The implication is: Tim plays it nice and clean, Tim kept civilians from getting shot... unlike me. Elsewhere in this arc, Dick's been convinced that he's "poison."

He can't bear to see Tim because he's certain he'll only bring Tim down.

... There's a problem with his plan, though. Tim's spotted him.

Narrator voice: they were not okay

I LOVE THIS PANEL SO MUCH

Tim spots Dick before he can sneak away, and chases after him. At first he tries to tease light-heartedly - "Look at you! Back on your feet!" - but when Dick looks away grim-faced, Tim sobers and we get a bit more of his actual worries. (Tim will sometimes fake cheerfulness when under stress - both Babs and his friends comment on this in War Games and in Teen Titans.)

Now they catch up. Tim asks Dick if he's okay. (Dick says he is. He's not.) Where he's staying. ("Some people" are the mobster family.) Dick asks Tim how his step-mom is. (Tim says she's okay. She's not. She's had a breakdown.) How school's going. (Tim says school's okay too. Actually, he's dropped out.)

And now at last we've looped back to the panels at the top! Dick tries to retreat, and Tim - convinced that Dick is mad at him, which is really not the case - tries to figure out if Dick is mad at him for coming to Blüdhaven without permission, or about Bruce's offer of adoption. (Tim's self-worth issues mean that Tim's convinced that Dick is mad at him about something, as opposed to the truth, which is that Dick is spiraling and it has nothing to do with Tim.)

Dick (turning away): We - we shouldn't be talking like this. Tim (fake-cheer, acting as if Dick means "we shouldn't be talking with you in costume and me out-of-costume"): Well, go get your gear! Dick: I can't do that. Tim (more serious now): You're not mad I'm, like, in your city or anything? Dick (shocked): NO! No. I'm honored. You have more of a right to be here than I do. Tim: Is it the adoption thing? Dick: The what? Tim: 'Cause I was a little worried about that. That's kinda part of why I said no. I mean, that and the uncle thing. I was just thinking it wasn't really all that long since he officially adopted you, which was kind of a big deal, emotionally or whatever, and to me you're like totally his son and I don't wanna step on that or anything.

Dick (whirling): What are you talking about, Tim? Bruce is going to adopt you? Tim (hands up): No! I mean, he was. But he's not now. I've got this uncle… So I don't need, you know, anything really… from Bruce, or… You, uh. You didn't know. I'm sorry, I figured he would've talked to you about it or something. Dick (turning away, jumping off the balcony): Yeah, right. Fat chance. Tim: Well anyway, it's not gonna happen, so you don't have to worry about it... right?

Dick's unnerved by the adoption offer mostly because it drives home his distance from Bruce - he didn't know Bruce was offering this, and since Dick's been thinking of himself as Estranged from Everyone Forever, it feels like Tim joining Bruce's family - replacing Dick - instead of Tim joining Dick's family. So he reacts badly - EVEN THOUGH!!! AGAIN!!! DICK LOVES TIM A LOT!!!

So Dick emphasizes the distance he's trying to create: tells Tim that whatever he does is up to him and Bruce, not Dick, because Dick's withdrawing from everything. Actually, Tim should forget that he ever knew Dick:

Dick (pulls his hood up, turns away): Look, Timmy, I'm sorry. I don't care what he does. If he can be of help to you, you should take him up on it. I wish I could offer to help you myself, but I can't. I'm not part of this anymore. This whole thing… I'm out. Tim: Yeah, right… Dick: From now on, it'd be better if you forgot you ever knew me. Tim (echoing what Dick said): ...Fat chance.

Tim's hurt by this, and he's been pretty oblivious about what's going on with Dick, but he's not an idiot, and after a moment of hesitation he correctly figures out from this ramble what Dick's not saying, which is that Dick's feeling like he's worthless to Bruce, that Bruce doesn't value him, that he's lost that relationship. So Tim impulsively tries to reassure him that Bruce does need him... but Dick's in a lousy headspace and it doesn't work:

Dick's walking away. Tim chases after him again. Tim: Hey, uh-! Remember how I once told you that Batman needed a Robin? Well, that's still true, but even more than that, he…he needs you. You know, not like every second or whatever, but at the end of the day, he needs to know you're still on his side. It's…important. Dick kicks over a newspaper stand. Dick (glaring): YOU- ! - you have no idea how much of my life I've wasted believing that was true. Dick pulls up his hood again and walks away.

(Side-note: forever wonderful to me that both Dick and Tim use "need" as a synonym for "love." Issues: they have them.)

Fix-It Fic Ideas

I have spent a lot of time thinking about potential fix-it fics for this comic (TRAGICALLY AFAIK NO ONE HAS WRITTEN ANY, FEEL FREE TO BE THE FIRST). An idea that I offer free to a good home:

A bit after Dick leaves, Tim winds up in trouble and gets injured and Dick has to rescue him (how does Dick find out about it? I dunno)

Tim's injured so naturally Dick's gonna take him back to his home with his stepmom and/or uncle

. . . except the uncle is an actor and not a very convincing one; Tim's entire edifice of lies collapses

Dick realizes that Tim is not actually weathering things well

Dick still thinks that he's poison and terrible and awful and (insert self-hating monologue here) BUT Tim living on his own after his dad is murdered is so bad as far as Dick's concerned that clearly SOME kind of intervention is necessary

Tim insists he does not need an intervention

Dick's sense of responsibility and worry over Tim now force him to carve out time from his major project of hate-myself-and-feel-bad to try to look out for Tim

Dick insists that Tim stay with him until his stepmom is better

They share an apartment for a while

They are both still super-super-super traumatized

???

eventual hugs and healing on both sides

profit

Alternate fix-it:

Tim follows Dick back to the Tevis' house like the little stalker he is, and then introduces himself in disguise as Alvin Draper

Dick's furious and frustrated but can't do much about this without screwing up his own disguise

Tim's determined to figure out what's going on with Dick partly for altruistic reasons and partly because he's also running from his own life, but Dick doesn't figure out the second part until way later

Dick's so frustrated with Tim being here when Dick told him to go - plus wrapped up in wondering what Tim knows, and being paranoid about what he might figure out, and hating being observed - that it takes him a while to start wondering questions like, "wait, shouldn't Tim be in school"

Dick and Tim are pretending not to know each other - or pretending to have a hostile relationship, or something - so any real conversations have to be in snatches in secret

Dick tries to bluff/threaten Tim into leaving (for his own good!!) but it doesn't work

Slow crawl toward mutual awareness of trauma which they're both super-self-conscious about - Dick hears Tim crying at night; Tim hears Dick's nightmares or sees another panic attack

At some point it becomes increasingly obvious that they know each other / that their story about their relationship is fake, and when the mobsters confront them, Dick says yeah, he lied, actually Tim's his little brother, and he gives some kind of stylized version of the truth which doubles as an emotional speech to Tim who gets all choked up and hugs him

and it's very touching and emotional because remember Tim HASN'T been adopted so they're NOT brothers and Tim was worried maybe Dick didn't WANT to be brothers but Dick CONSIDERS him a brother so ;_;

??? i don't know what happens next. do they quit the mob? does Dick now explain his mob-infiltration plan to Tim?

meanwhile off-panel Bruce stops Deathstroke from blowing up Blüdhaven, well done Bruce

oh wait or maybe Cass does??

anyway Dick and Tim have hugged so then there's a happy ending

In Conclusion

IN CONCLUSION Dick and Tim should hug more and this comic proves it. Look at them! They both need hugs! They're standing so close to each other! THEY ARE MIRROR IMAGES OF TRAUMA AND BAD COPING MECHANISMS they need each other and they don't know how to say it - they want to help each other and they also don't know how to say it - they don't know how to talk to each other or to anyone else - Dick lashes out and Tim lies and they both isolate themselves and withdraw into depression loneliness even though they could help each other! and would want to help each other! but they won't ask for what they need because they don't think they deserve it and they don't realize how important they are to each other

i just think they're neat. i want to study them like bugs and rattle them around in a jar until all the masks come off and they can actually see each other clearly

#dick grayson #tim drake #dick & tim #long post #i LOVE this comic SO MUCH #the way they echo each other's phrases??#the miscommunication??#the tragedy??#the fact that underneath it all they both still love each other and they're TRYING??#ask tag #i know a lot of this wasn't really about your question anon but thank you for letting me ramble <33

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fantastic-nonsense · 1 year

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i don't know if you've already made a post about this but what comic(s) do you think have the best characterisation of cassandra cain and dick grayson?

My instinctive response to this ask was to just answer "Prodigal and Batgirl (2000)" and be on my way. Instead, I took a little bit more time to think about what my answer should be and what information might be useful to people looking for comics featuring a well-characterized Dick and Cass. So, with that said:

Dick:

Robin: Year One (2000)

New Teen Titans/Tales of the Teen Titans (1980 & 1984)

Batman: Year Three (1989)

Batman: Prodigal (1997)

Titans Vol. 1 (1999)

Nightwing/Birds of Prey: The Hunt for Oracle (2000)

Gotham Knights (2000) #1-12

Peter Tomasi's run on Nightwing (1996)

Batman: The Black Mirror (2010)

Batman: Gates of Gotham (2011)

Listen. All of these comics have their flaws. Many of them feature dated and occasionally poor treatment of various characters/social issues. I'm still holding a grudge against Devin Grayson for her Nightwing run and will until the end of time, and thus the inclusion of Titans Vol. 1 and her first Gotham Knights arcs might seem a bit odd. But I also think this is a pretty solid list of comics that portray Dick in ways that feel consistent and faithful to his core characterization; they're also some of the comics that feature Dick at his best.

Cass:

Batgirl (2000): specifically the Puckett/Scott run (#1-37) and the Gabrych run (#38 & #58-73)

Bruce Wayne: Murderer?/Fugitive (2003)

Gates of Gotham (2011)

Tynion's run on Detective Comics (2016)

Batman and the Outsiders (2019)

Batgirl Vol. 1 was and continues to be the golden standard of how to portray Cass. She's never reached those heights again. Other comics featuring Cass wish they were Batgirl Vol. 1, but it was a true "lightning in a bottle" run that has yet to be replicated. That being said: Murderer/Fugitive (which takes place during Cass's Batgirl run) is great, and Gates of Gotham features the only solid pre-reboot Cass characterization post-Evil Cass arc.

Post-Flashpoint!Cass is a bit of a different animal, but within the context and limitations placed on her appearances until Dan Didio's departure from DC in 2020, she's best characterized and treated in Detective Comics Rebirth and Batman and the Outsiders.

Honorable mentions: these comics either weren't quite on the same level of "good characterization" to make the list or just didn't highlight the character as much as they could have, but I still really like what the creative team did with them in the space they were given:

Dick: Nightwing (1996) #6 (for being a fun depiction of Dick and Tim's early-days relationship), Teen Titans (2003) #6 (great characterization of Dick. So-so characterization of...several other characters), The Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul (I love Dick's characterization here, and it's one of my favorite Bat books, but he's just not in it all that much), and Batman & Robin (2009), which...I'll get into my complicated feelings about Morrison's B&R run some other time, but generally: I like Dick's characterization in this comic a lot in isolation. It becomes much more difficult to square, however, when you take everything else going on during the Reborn era into account.

Cass: Mariko Tamaki's Shadows of the Bat: The Tower (2021) event and "Sounds" short from the DC Asian Superhero Celebration (2021) anthology. They're nice and have some great Cass moments, but they're either too short (Sounds) or too focused on other characters/the overall plot (The Tower) to truly do her justice.

#ugh....the hesitation to put Titans Vol. 1 on here but knowing it portrays his relationships with the rest of the Fab Five the best...#dick grayson #cassandra cain #bri's recs #dc comics #batman #batfam #nightwing #batgirl #replies #dick grayson meta #cassandra cain meta

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temperamentalaquarius · 26 days

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any thoughts on batman: black mirror? i really enjoyed it (as a non-batfamily fan) but i'm wondering if there is a difference of opinion with people who are actually acquainted with the context behind black mirror, i guess. which parts did you find the strongest + which parts did you find the weakest?

anyways, im a huge fan of your comics-posting (which is both, in the best way, entertaining and insightful). have a great day!

Ahhh thank u!! I'm glad I'm not the only one having fun 😁!!!

Thank you so much for sending this, I loved the dick!bats era and I liked The Black Mirror!!

I thought it was a decent Dick story, and I loved that it had Babs and Tim as the supporting cast. It was good to see them back(mostly) in their 90s early 2000s element.

I thought that the A plot was better than the serial killer B plot-; it had a lot of personal connection for Dick without being about the Graysons and orcas(which are some of the most vicious and borderline cruel predators that terrify me to my core and it was really cool to see them get some use)- even if I didn't find the ending super satisfying.

I thought James was interesting, and his story was more linear but the addition of the Joker into the situation was kind of just...messy and not entirely necessary? It kind of killed it for me. Idk I might just have Joker fatigue. I did like the coloring and a good portion of the art better in that part of the story, tho. I thought the mood they set was really cool and a little scary.

My high points were all (unsurprisingly) character based:

I loved the way Tim saving Dick from his own shit here

Kinda paralleled this scene in NW 96

But more mature. Watching them go from Dick mentoring Tim to them having a much more balanced relationship where Tim can fully have Dick's back has always been super satisfying and seeing it making a come back after their little fallout was cool

I also like the attention paid to the differences in Bruce and Dick's philosophy (specifically here:

) and the difficulty that Batman presents Dick because of it. Part of the appeal of Dick being Batman is the reluctance and the chunk of flesh it takes out of him and I think this story really got the tone of that right. He's making mistakes that he wouldn't normally, he's not sleeping; you can really tell that everything is getting to him. He feels like the walls are closing in on him with no way out (sometimes literally) and it makes the whole story kind of..weary? It's as much man vs man as it is man vs self. Love that many of the action sequences in the book happen in enclosed places that have an unstoppable deadly force converging on him with no way out and how that emphasizes the theme

OH and my absolute favorite analogy for the mindset that dick operates w/ is in this book

And how that works with his parents rules for survival

There's like... a debate on whether Dick plans or if he acts on instinct and I like the way that this breaks it down to: yes, he's planning from the start and if it seems like he isn't it's because that's what he wants you to think- but he understands that leaving space to bob and weave is a part of that process. Ultimate planner that is liable to start behaving erratically as fuck at any moment is such a fun look

Favorite fight was probably the horror forward snap at the auction, with honorarable mentions going to Dick v.s the compactor, Dick v.s. the orca, and of course Dick v.s. The bends

Worst was by far this one:

There is no way he should've been able to waltz into Babs' hideout without her knowing I'm so sorry it's just not realistic, like, that's Barbara Gordon???

#dick grayson #barbara gordon #tim drake #asks #bitch I might wing #sorry this is so long I suffer from overly verbose disease and it is terminal

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wormsin · 2 months

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if tim’s favorite robin is jason now, does this mean he was no longer present in the canon of watching dick grayson’s parents die? i always thought it was offputting how they shoehorned tim into dick’s trauma event in such a voyeuristic manner to make him relevant to the story….he saw the first robin’s parents die and decides later that jason todd will always be his favorite? can you just imagine tim thinking “yeah it was so traumatic for ME to watch ur parents died and robin was originally a petname ur mum gave you when you were a little baby but jason is my fave robin hehe 😉 “

I don't actually have the context for Tim saying his favorite Robin is Jason but tbh. it's fine. Jason died a horrible death as Robin, he can have this.

it doesn't make sense for Tim to be at the Grayson's deaths, he would have to be like 2-3yo and that's still stretching ages. but iirc, he figures out Robin is Dick Grayson because he recognized an acrobat move Robin did as the same Dick Grayson did. Tim figuring out their identities is pretty important so we have to make this Fixation on the Flying Graysons make sense. I HC Tim was there, didn't really remember it more than a few impressions, researched the Grayson's when he was older and found some rare footage, voila. he had a crush/obsession with Dick Grayson of the Flying Graysons and that translated to being very starry eyed with Dick Grayson when they actually met, in a way that was definitely uncomfortable for Dick, but Tim was a child and I don't see Dick holding that against him.

anyway I don't think there's really a contradiction to Tim being present at the Graysons' death and thinking that Jason is his 'favorite Robin'. what I think is weird is writers pushing *even more* people into that death scene retroactively. like. come on.

#ask worm #dick grayson #tim drake #jason todd #meta

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zeroducks-2 · 2 months

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Reading your answer on why Clark is still friends with Bruce despite everything is depressing, despite all the meta reasoning to know that the symbol of hope and optimism takes abuse and won’t stop abuse is….sad.

It is, right? I agree that it is kinda depressing. But ultimately comicbook characters are influenced by who writes them.

There's a lot of stuff my blorbos did that I don't like. From Tim being sexist to Stephanie, to Slade being creepy and weird to Rose, Dick making racist jokes, Bruce arguing that his violent approach is the only one that works, Clark himself being condescending to Lois when she does "foolish woman things", and many more.

I highly recommend anyone not to hold their favorite character as paragon of morality, regardless if they're heroes or villains. Characters don't have agency and are subjected to what their writer will want them to say and how they will want them to act, and we can argue that "it's OOC" all we want but at the end of the day we WILL be disappointed if we treat fictional people as role models.

Seriously anon, the secret of fandom happiness - beside blocking bullies - is to stop wanting our blorbos to be paragons of "good things", whether it's hope, justice, righteousness, what have you, because ultimately these concepts change according to the time period, the context, the writer(s), the interpretations, and are influenced by a million other things. They're treated like sempiternal concepts but in fact the precise definition of them will vary from person to person, even in the exact same context and time period.

And by the way, like it happens for many other things, Clark not preventing Bruce from abusing his Robins isn't Clark's failure, it's the writers and executive's failure in creating a good narrative around the fact that Bruce is a toxic douchebag who hurts the people he loves.

#my asks #bruce wayne critical

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gffa · 9 months

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10, 13, 14 for DC? My answers are pit madness, Tim Drake or Jason Todd, and Cass using ASL. I’m curious to hear your hot takes lol

10. worst part of fanon Ohhhhh, how do I choose. I oscillate a lot with various ones, but my current least favorite fanon thing is the hyersexualizing/objectification of Dick Grayson. A lot of fandom is really, really good about not doing this! But the focus on his ass as a selling point of the character is not suddenly great and wonderful just because we're doing it to a man now instead of a woman. The character himself is not overtly sexualizing--he's flirty (but how much of that is just that he's friendly and charming?) and he clearly likes sex, but he does so in the context of genuine relationships, and neither he nor the other characters really focus on his body parts, and I'm not super comfortable when fandom does it. (To be fair, I think we need to unpack the way women are treated in comics waaaaaay more than we need to focus on Dick's character's treatment, but also I just don't think I'll ever be onboard with it, either.) 13. worst blorboficiation YOU ARE GOING TO GET ME IN TROUBLE but it absolutely is Tim. And I'm not entirely opposed, in the sense that my Blorboifcation is my jam when I'm doing it, you know? So why shouldn't the exact same thing apply to other characters? Let them Blorboize their Blorbos to their hearts content! But I do find myself sliding right off a lot of Tim fic that doesn't let him be a horrible little gremlin man who is just as obnoxious and stubborn as the rest of his family, who is capable of making mistakes or doing some really fucked up things because he knows they're necessary. Tim is allowed to go through rough patches and not come out having handled them perfectly, he is allowed to push people away, to be unfair to people, to have his entire world upended and be less than perfect, while still being sympathetic because baby boy was Going Through It and needs more love. There's a lot of fic that I've read that has great Blorboification of Tim, I am so down for exploring his issues with self-worth, I've just also seen it go overboard a lot in a way that's not for me. (And they would probably say the exact same thing about my Blorboification and they'd probably be equally right! 😂) 14. that one thing you see in fics all the time Sooooo many fanon nicknames! And that's not necessarily a bad thing, many of them are ones that I enjoy (I will fight anyone who tries to take away "baby bat", SHUT UP, I LOVE THAT ONE), I just kind of want to side-eye people sometimes and check, "We all know we're making this up and it's not really how the comics characters usually talk to each other, right?" before we get right back to using them anyway because they're fun.

#lumi.txt #dc #batfam #choose violence ask game

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lurkinglurkerwholurks · 9 months

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Battle Royal

First posted: June 8, 2018

Focuses on: The BatFam as seen by Clark Kent

My favorite bookmark: "Good grief this is perfect"

Tier: Bottom half at best in terms of metrics

This is my "behind the scenes" series where I indulge myself frightfully by annotating my fics. Link to the fic itself above. Thoughts below the cut.

The title is on purpose. It's a pun. Not a battle royale but a literal battle royal, since it's a battle of pop princesses.

I got the idea for this one at work. I don't remember if it came from a conversation with my single coworker who also loved BatFam (and didn't know I wrote fic), or if we had a separate conversation and the creative juices kept flowing after I went back to my cube. I just know where I was when the pieces came together. (And then I had to jot note in my phone and wait because there was no time to write at work.)

Clark Kent was a firm believer that a home was imprinted by the emotions of its family. Step in the front door and the atmosphere of a place would fill your lungs and whisper secrets in your ear about the lives of the people who claimed it. Not all buildings could speak like this, or even all houses, but homes? Homes spoke.

This was my first time writing Clark. This was not my first time—or last—starting a fic with a bunch if philosophic rambling. It's kind of my thing at this point. Sorrynotsorry I guess.

Clark had felt the change again when Dick had left, storming off in high dudgeon to Bludhaven and Nightwing.

I still haven't figured out how much of Dick's growing-up involved fights and tension and genuine falling out vs. just... the regular strain of adulthood and change. I waffle. In many ways, the Manor was far more expressive than its owner, and Clark appreciated the aid it gave in decoding the veritable sphinx he called a friend. In times of crisis, the bits Clark gleaned from the Manor gave him context and insight. In times of tranquility, he basked in the confirmation that all was well.

I like fics that play with the Manor as an Entity. This is as close as I've gotten to doing that myself. Bless Clark, he needs all the help he can get.

Clark and Bruce sat in the den, quiet conversation forgotten, as they listened to the brawl happening several doors down and a floor away.

I hate spatial orientation. Hate hate hate it. Trying to figure out where things and people should be and then keeping track of it all is such a headache.

It was a source of endless mystery to Clark how Bruce could stalk out of a room in chinos and a turtleneck and still somehow leave the impression of a cape billowing in his wake. Clark had asked Lois once if he was capable of doing the same thing. Lois had laughed herself nearly as blue as his tights.

So much googling of what rich people wear. And also what colors on Superman's costume go where.

There's a typo in this fic. I see it. I am not fixing it because that would tempt me to fix other things. But I see it. My fingertips itch.

Clark had once had the misfortune of pulling Damian out of a brawl. Damian had bit him. The bite hadn’t even left teethmarks, of course, but both Damian and Clark had been so embarrassed that it had taken weeks before the Waynes and Kents could get together without the teasing driving both participants into a full-body blush.

I forgot about this part. I am delighted with myself.

Clark raised one eyebrow, one Kon often used and Tim would be able to decipher with ease. What in the world? Clark was less fluent in Wayne-speak—Bruce wasn’t known for his communication skills, verbal or non—but he caught the gist as Tim widened his eyes slightly, gave his head a small shake, and then shrugged one shoulder eloquently. No frikkin’ idea.

My whole family is decently skilled at this. I remember being little and watching my parents communicate across a room and being so intrigued by the entire exchange. So of course I gave it to the Waynes and of course if Bruce does it, Clark would have learned at least a little.

Though not shouted, Bruce’s command was forceful enough that all four boys startled. Clark came close as well but managed to stop himself. When Bruce sounded that much like a dad, sometimes it was hard not to react like a kid.

I like this line, too.

Honestly, there were sometimes when Dick seemed like the metahuman instead of Clark. After all, Clark might be able to lift an airplane over his head, but could he bend over backward and look between his own feet? No, no he could not.

I just looked. Zootopia had been out a couple years by now, so the cadence makes sense. But also, this is just how I gripe at myself sometimes.

Dick shrugged and shifted his weight. Jason howled with rage as a window-rattling fart blasted in the general direction of his face. “Boys!” Now Bruce sounded more exasperated than stern, and Clark choked down laughter. “Dick, get off your brother. Jason, don’t stab Dick.”

This may be the most juvenile and cartoonish of all my fics. I am unashamed.

“Do you mean to tell me that you destroyed your grandmother’s Neoclassical coffee table over a disagreement over teenie-bopper pop stars?”

More googling about expensive furniture. Likely while sitting on my own IKEA couch.

I also had to do so much pop star googling. Dick's and Jason's points are pulled directly from some article somewhere that was trying to argue who was the best. But also, note, my first profanity, because "It's Britney, bitch" had to be done. It just had to.

To the side, Tim lifted a finger. “Uh, I like Mil—”

Obviously, Dick and Jason are the two older children, and at the time I wrote them at closer in age than the others (not what I do now), so they got the 90s pop queens, which meant Tim's and Damian's picks needed to be more modern. Tim's had to be cringe, so tada. Miley Cyrus.

“Miss Grande has a four-octave range and more class in her perfectly sculpted pinky finger than you have in your entire stunted body, and you will speak of her with respect.”

Now in 2023 I wish I'd given Damian a less problematic idol, but she made sense at the time. Also the aforementioned coworker was a stan, so it felt appropriate.

A solid hour of yelling was a therapeutic experience, much more so than, say, getting into a fistfight with a chainsmoker dressed like a flightless bird.

Gotham is such an absurd place, when you really think about it.

“I don’t understand modern music anymore. It’s all double-step and rat traps.”

Dubstep and trap music, Bruce. Dubstep and trap music.

“Give me Debbie Gibson any day.” “Huh,” Clark mused as he passed his friend. “I always preferred Tiffany.”

More googling to find out who the Britney vs. Xtina were back in the day.

From somewhere deep in the Manor, Cassandra trilled, “Shakira, Shakiraaaaa!”

#fanfic bts brain dump

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cleromancy · 8 months

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i love this issue (gotham knights 15) for tim, bc the way it plays with a lot of the major tim character elements at the time (tim not wanting to be a superhero forever, tim navel-gazing about what he can even *do* for the bats, tim struggling with the fact that he has a stable home life with jack and dana and what that means for his place with the bats) while also exploring one of my favorite things about tim as a member of the team--

the context here is that bruce told ivy he wasn't going to negotiate with her, refused to engage with any of her talking points, and gave her an ultimatum. this obviously did not work. he then sends tim out instead, and tim immediately does the exact opposite:

tim can be *flexible*.

we do see bruce knocking ivy out after this, but the impression is that if he hadnt shown up in time tim would have let her go to save the hostages. moreover, where bruce was unwilling to entertain her arguments just bc shes "a terrorist" and "has hostages" or whatever, 🙄, tims willing to meet her where shes at and accept that plant life is as important to her as human life.

the issue also explores tims insecurity which like. i do want to disclaim to you, dear reader, that tim is also pretty confident. tim is at times a cocky little jerk. normally when im talking about what's in one story i dont try and disclaim every characterization choice every other writer has ever made, but rather focus on what that specific writer was doing with the character. (character analysis in terms of the larger narrative and collective whole is also fun, but thats not what im doing rn.) but i do think its important context here that tim does not have an especially low opinion of himself at this time, but rather understands that the others are extraordinary in a way he himself was not.

the context is just that tim accidentally sent this email to bruce and asked if he could go delete it before bruce read it.

you may also note, dear reader, tim saying the thing about bruce having "enough to deal with" without having to read tims email; tims done this repeatedly in gk, where he downplays his own emotions or apologizes for bugging someone with his concerns. what it comes down to is being *highly* preoccupied with his place on the team, his role among them, what he was bringing to the table, and not wanting to let--or drag--anyone down.

(there is also context that bruce told tim he sent him after ivy bc he believed tims approach would work bc it would be different than bruces own, and an issue or two before this dick and azrael talk about how much they like him. tim is not actually uniquely underappreciated or anything.)

anyw. good stuff.

#dc #gotham knights #panels #tim #siskreads

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lazaruspiss · 29 days

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your ship, character and fandom opinions are so based. i'm also a poly robin shipper so it's nice to see there are more of us here. anyway, i'd love to hear what are your all time favorite dc ships and why, and if you have any headcanons (sfw and nsfw) about them. or you can just ramble about any fic ideas you have, the ones you've mentioned already are very interesting.

thank u for the compliments and also the many things to talk about!! <3 mwah! (readmore added bc of length)

picking a favorite ship is so hard, because im a multishipper and real big on leaving my options open so that i have the most opportunity in any given story!! like, brudick and sladick are both ones i love for dark stories, but they each give such different angles and paths that you can take. all combinations of robins are dear to me for different reasons. and even within the context of one ship, i can usually come up with a lot of different directions that they can go it!!

i can't even say "X is my favorite for Y types of stories" because with a good pairing theres so much you can do with a variety of types of stories!! so. def cant pick a favorite, but i can list some that i like! they mostly involve Dick, bc my biases are quite obivious, lol.

Dick ships: Bruce, Slade, Talia, Slade/Talia, Tim, Jason, Steph, Damian (but it depends a lot on context, i see Dick as being very careful about not taking advantage), any poly robins combo, Slade/Rose, Tara

other ships: Slade/Rose, Slade/Talia, any robins together, Bruce/Talia (but only if Talia is having daddy issues about it), Nyssa/Talia (Nyssa repeatedly kills and revives her to make her understand her anger at Ra's. the rituals. they're intricate i swear-)(but also in arkham knight Nyssa compares her love for Talia to Bruce's explicitly romantic love for Talia and i've never been normal about that), any combo of the Al Ghuls tbh they're so mentally ill about each other

so uhhhhhh. really you could pitch any Dick ship at me and get me talking. if anyone wants to ask about that list ur welcome to lol

fic ideas!!! i have some shorter ones, like a Blackfire/Robin non-con based on that one scene from tt03, but i kinda wanna take this chance to ramble about my longer ideas!

u may have seen some of these, but i have a series called "days without incident" which is a bunch of shorter than usual fics stringing together random semi canon compliant scenes of Dick being in dangerous sexual situations, which are eventually going to end in a rlly angsty fic of Dick being assaulted and just accepting it. it sounds dark, and it is, but due to the length and format they really just serve as quick writing warm-ups more than anything.

DIDick AU. a friend of mine has been on the receiving end of so many DMs of me fleshing out these alter OCs, to the point that it would feel weird if I didn't write anything for it. the problem is that when I think about it, it all revolves around characters and there's no real plot line to use for it. I could just rant about it, bc figuring out what I want to do for a story about them is really tricky. it's also tough bc it's a teeny bit more personal than I usually go for. do /I/ have DID? unclear. I probably wouldn't tell you either way. anyways, it's an idea i want to more with but it's just more complicated to work on than most others.

suicide fic. "Where The Dead Stay Dead", title in reference to this being in a "Jason Stays Dead AU". i want to take a sort of dark comedy direction, but i have trouble controlling how the tone ends up when I write. Dick tries to kill himself post Jason's death + many other bad times but Slade just happens to pop in to try and bother him that day, and is uh. he doesn't know how to feel about it, the kid dying in front of him, but he drags Dick to a safe house and does some made-up comic book science fuckery to give Dick his healing factor. Dick is not very happy about this when he wakes up. the rest of the story follows an arrangement where Dick searches for a way to perma die and is generally a depressed grumpy bitch about everything, and Slade secretly tries to get him to stop doing that while trying to figure out a way to revive Jason. whichever ends up being easier. a lot of it would probably just be about Slade feeling lost with this "new" version of Dick, as well as the two of them swapping stories about dead loved ones and learning how to mourn.

timcel fic. that was the placeholder title, before i settled on "Nature's Order (As Told From Alpha To Beta)", but i still call it the timcel fic for short <3 the alpha in that title is Ra's, and the beta is Tim. the kick off for the story is that Ra's kidnaps omega Dick to use as a human incubator bc he and Talia had a spat that's left him heir-less, and he kidnaps Tim to make Dick more compliant. it's a really extreme take on "right wing alpha male pipeline, but omegaverse". it's gonna be a lot of bad times for Dick <3 i've talked about it so much with my friend that one time they mentioned basing smth partially off of Nature's Order Tim, and I think that's a good sign that I should really be writing this properly at this point. I have started chapter one! but bc it's gonna be a long one I want to get three chapters done before I start posting, bc having a few extra chapters written will help with my nerves a bit.

#asks #anon #uhhh that was a lot lol #feel free to ask follow up questions...?

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thattimdrakeguy · 2 years

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Curious to ask;

Top favorite interactions between Oracle and Robin (Tim)

I can't show you all of them, because I just don't have the energy to look for one where Timmy is snoozing on her couch and using his cape like a blankie and Babs has to wake him up.

It's so unnecessarily cute in this super dweebie way.

The rest of these I already have saved, though.

This is one of my top moments. Barbara just finds Timmy super cute, and I think that's really endearing. Tim's ability to just be everyone's baby brother or son-figure in the 90s is one of the things that makes him himself endearing. Everyone seemed to attach themselves to him in this way.

I cannot remember the context to this, but how they feel like actual siblings here is something so precious. Timmy being a li'l bratty brother, and Babs just taking him in jest pretty much only because he's an impatient kid is a wonderful dynamic. There’s always the risk of that being done poorly, but here it feels so organic thanks to the art. The look on her face, not taking anything he says seriously, with him looking so genuine as a bored out of his mind kid waiting for something to happen. She thinks this kid is so funny for the simple reason of being him. And wants to prove herself just to see the look at the little snots face when she can show him how much better she could do it. It has strong big sister baby brother energy.

And just more of them being siblings, but with Barbara giving Timmy an extra kiss on the cheek. They didn't get as much time together as Dick and Tim, but they still clearly care for each other a lot, love each other, and really get along super well. So nearly every time they're together I really enjoy it.

Sadly, most people aren't aware they had this kind of relationship and act as if they don't even know each other. Which is a total shame. But that’s the way it is with modern comics.

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flashflashhundredyarddash · 3 years

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batkids and their relationships with their siblings headcanons. under read more because this got fucking LONGGG

dick

dick is the eldest so he doesnt want to bog down his younger siblings with his problems, but if he DOES, he tends to talk to jason about it

dick and cass start to really begin to bond when Cass shows up to dicks gymnastics class for 3rd-6th graders and then cass shows up all the sixth graders and they get frozen yogurt after lmao

dick and tim are Very much thick as thieves. tim is very much like bruce on the Emotional Suppression scale, so dick just really wants to make sure his little brother is safe and happy ALL the time

Duke and Damian are the only two really permanently at the manor anymore, so when dick drops by he tries to do something with both of them. duke frantically zoom calls dick every other week to help him with his his trig homework. dick shows up to dukes high school graduation with literally the BIGGEST SIGN

everyone insists damian is dicks favorite but he does actually genuinely love all his siblings equally, his relationship with damian is just Very different from the others because of the age gap and being dami's primary caretaker for a year. dick babies dami every chance he gets

jason

would sell Dick to satan for One corn chip

him and cass don't have the greatest start to their relationship because cass is very much Against Killing so it takes a while for jason to warm up to her and earn her trust. now, though, jason is competing with steph by showing cass all the classic American Teenager things she missed out on. steph is currently winning but jason is like 98% positive a crunch wrap from taco bell is going to push him over the edge

tim and jason are currently competing over who can solve the most cases in a month. tim is winning. that won't last long.

jason Loves to Big Brother duke its so embarrassing. duke will get out of school and go to his car and jason is SITTING IN THE FRONT SEAT FRANTICALLY WAVING TO GET DUKES ATTENTION. JASON THAT IS MY CAR. signal has one (1) mission with arsenal and arsenal goes hey did you ask that girl to homecoming yet and duke is like I DON'T EVEN KNOW YOU.

Damian is proof that Actually, Little Brothers are Pests. Jason fully believes that he was brought back from the dead PURELY to torment damian and he will fulfill this mission at any cost

cassandra

it actually really upset her when Dick didn't accept her at first. she knows her other siblings really adore dick so his lack of trust was really disheartening. it takes dick a while but once he Actually Accepts that cass is going to be a permanent part of their life and oh, wow, dick you really hurt her feelings he really hyperfocuses on bonding with cass for a couple of months which definitely improves their relationship

she really likes jason!! their relationship doesn't start well but because he's close with steph and tim who are cass's top two favorite people to exist ever, cass is like well i GUESS ill hang out with him more. jason is fun to talk to because he always tries his best to explain jokes and give context to what people are talking about (also tim took her to taco bell already but she didn't tell jason she just wanted to hang out)

cass LOVES tim. they just click okay. tim always seems to know when to give her space and when to push and come closer. Tim's "guest room" is just her room lets be real. tim and cass occasionally get mistaken for twins and Cass Loves it.

duke makes cass listen to metal once and cass loses. her. damn. mind. they bond over music a lot because they both Love Music to a degree the others in their family don't.

damian!! damian is her little brother!!! dami isn't As Hostile to cass at first because he is 100% aware cass has the edge in fighting and respects her. cass likes all of his instagram posts and they have a snapchat streak going

tim

tim Loves dick, dick was his first sibling!! he had Very strong hero worship when he first met dick but it mellowed out when tim got older because wow 17 is really not that cool and mature lol. tim has an open invitation to dick's apartment which he does occasionally take advantage of. tim has more than once scared the shit out of wally when wally comes over and wally is convinced they're being robbed (HA) for half a second. i mean. he's not wrong.

listen. tim understands that forgiving the guy who tried to kill you would be a Struggle for some people and it was! definitely! but also at least he can trust jason to, uh, be open about if he doesn't like tim. which is not an assurance he has with other people. so if the guy who tried to kill him tells him tim is cool now then like. maybe tim isn't that bad or annoying a person? also jason arrested a whole gang and won the cases competition but then it created a power vacuum that the whole batfam had to clean up the rest of the month. thanks, jason.

tim LOVES cass. you know how most of the time theres this empty feeling inside you and you just kind of ignore it because you don't know what will fix it or if you do, you know you can't fix it? cass makes that empty feeling feel a little less empty. they just click. tim always tries to travel with cass whenever she leaves gotham.

tim and duke. Tim is actually the sibling who duke goes to whenever he has questions he doesn't want to ask bruce or alfred about, like, life or vigilante-ing or school or college or whatever and Tim is always like yes!! i love Giving Advice and Solving Problems!! tim and duke and jason fill out their college applications together.

tim and damian. LMAO. ROUGH START THAT'S ALL ILL SAY. at some point alfred goes like fuck it. family therapy. and tim and dami are PISSED. tim and damian get along best when they have a common enemy to work against. their relationship gets much better when damian is older and they actually talk about their feelings like emotionally stunted bats. despite how bad their relationship was, tim will ALWAYS protect damian

duke

very much intimidated by dick at first. dick is so much older and has his own job and friends and life and is very much AN ADULT. dick likes to take duke out to do lots of cool stuff (paintball, lasertag, tech exhibitions, concerts, etc). also, dick PERSONALLY introduced duke to superman and is dating THE FLASH. 10/10 awesome big brother.

was intimidated by jason for 0.5 seconds before jason actually opened his mouth and started speaking. jason is literally. So Embarrassing. which is weird because nobody else really seems to feel that way about jason but duke knows he's 100% in the right here. like yeah jason is also An Adult and does Adult Stuff but he's also at the manor like every other weekend???? and he always complains about bruce but always seems to be in the same room bruce is in????? like okay jason. they bond over literature!! jason and duke and alfred will spend literal hours talking about books and duke loves it. duke is the only one who doesn't think jason is funny and jason gets so upset about it lmao.

cass has this one week where she gets really into photography and by virtue of being nearby (and also not nocturnal), duke becomes her victim subject. duke prints out all the pictures and hangs them up in his room (his favorite is one he took when he stole the camera and took a really bad selfie of them together).

tim is closest in age to duke so duke tends to hang around with him a lot. tim introduced duke to his young justice friends and duke is like yes!!! meta-friends!!!! tim really helps duke out with his powers because tim is always like wow i wonder if your powers would work if we did This? can you see farther than other people? is your visible spectrum of light different than other humans? Bruce does the same thing but bruce is boring about it lol.

damian and duke live in the same house and will be in the same room and just send each other social media posts back and forth. they follow each other on instagram and will, OCCASIONALLY, make tik toks together because they're tik tok fiends. each of his siblings have visited his parents once or twice but damian routinely comes with him.

damian

damian gets a special bullet point to say that it took him. forever to come around to the idea of having siblings. he very much believed that he was Bruce's Blood Son and everyone else were just tagalongs or allies. it took him ages to acknowledge that dick, jason, tim, and cass were his siblings, so when duke came and like a week later damian was like Ah, Yes, this is my brother Thomas everyone else was like dude wtf

listen. LISTEN. Obviously. Richard is very highly skilled. and also Father values him highly. and also Richard will listen to Damian complain about his schoolmates. and also Richard is much more patient with Damian than other members of his family. listen....,,, (all this to say damian kind of fucking adores dick lmaooooo this kid).

Todd is kind of unbearable but damian has been informed this is both a normal feeling when it comes to Todd and also big brothers. damian was an only child for ten years so yes, Father, if Todd attempts to tickle me I WILL break his fucking nose. yes i WILL put money in the swear jar but I want you to know i don't regret it. they always try to sneak up on each other but mostly fail.

DRAKE!!! but no lol once damian grows up and is like I Apologize for attempting to murder you it was wrong and you are just as much a son to Father as I am tim is like UGH i guess its cool since ur being so emotionally mature and all. also im 2 for 5 on siblings trying to murder me so im definitely going to win trauma bingo and damian is like i take it back you are insufferable. When Will My Older Siblings Stop Joking About Their Trauma.

CASS!!! listen. cass is cool. Cass Gets It. They have a special Bond. also damian really likes it whenever cass is home because 1) he gets to hang out and do something cool with cass and 2) he feels significantly safer with cass in the house because Nobody will be able to hurt any of their family if Cass is there. ALSO he tries to call her cain but everyone is like DONT DO THAT and he doesn't want to call her wayne bcus theyre ALL wayne (dick adds it on as a middle name but also Richard John Wayne West-Grayson is just. the lamest name ever so dick needs to reconsider it before his upcoming nuptials)((dick will not reconsider it except maybe whether grayson-west would work better)) and so he tries cassandra but cass is like :) call me cass and damian is like cassandra is more formal and respectful and cass is like :) and finally damian just has to give in.

Duke! him and duke actually live together so they get the Most Bonding Time and have a bunch of inside jokes as a result. (is it bad i wanted to laugh because inside jokes... joker... i'll see myself out). they're eating breakfast together (and also alfred sits with them IM NOT A MONSTER ALFIE'S LIKE 70 NOW OKAY) and duke laughs and bruce is like what are you laughing at, son? and duke is like oh damian just showed me this funny meme and then he shows the phone to bruce and bruce grabs it (both the boys groan) and after WAY TOO LONG is like "i don't get it" and so now duke and damian have to try and explain the comedic intricacy of bob's burgers

#this took. two fucking hours #batfam #batman #bruce wayne #dick grayson #jason todd #cassandra cain #cassandra wayne #not sure which one to commit to yet #tim drake #duke thomas #damian wayne #dc #the burd squawks #birdflash #birdflash was like. one of my first ships lmao

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illumiru · 3 years

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Ooh can u talk about ur theory where batcest fucked up fanon?

okay sorry for taking so long anon- i was very sleepy when i got this. take all of this with a grain of salt bc i joined the fandom late and i made a huge guess on what might have happened based on patterns from previous fandoms and my knowledge of fandom history. and hearsay from older fans.

BUT okay, my THEORY is that people who made b*tcest content then at the initial rise of the modern dc fandom probably watched young justice first and then go on to read a few comics here and there to discover their favorite robin. young justice was around the time new 52 became a thing so for a lot of fans at that time, that's usually their introduction to the rest of the batfam.

fandom does and fandom is wont to do though and since the batboys p much look like each other, they skewed their characterizations into easily digestible shallow tropes to make it easier to distinguish one robin from the other.

dick got saddled with the sunshine cuddle-monster (highly suspect this was influenced by young justice and n52), jason is the bad boy with the heart of gold, the draco in leather pants (possibly rhato influenced), tim is the sad uwu twink coffee super genius (red robin influenced) and damian's personality is either hellspawn or diagnosed 13 years old. (depends if they like damian or not).

the thing with the batfandom though is that a lot of them tend to be insular. so when it comes to dc content, they consume batfam content ONLY. knowing fandom, they can't consume content without shipping so they're like why not with each other? around the time, people are also a lot more likely to ship incest and don't consider adopted siblings actually related so it's seen as "not as bad."

that said, b*tcest has existed way before this period. even in batman year one: deluxe edition, there was a comic that said that some people saw batman and robin as a metaphor for homosexuality. (what the fuck)

and there were livejournal groups for batslash. that said, fandoms were very small pockets of community at the time instead of the consolidated mass it will be on tumblr. so from what i heard from older fans is that at the very least people who were making any kind of fan content have read the comics. i think i read a meta that dick's fanon self at the time tended to be a bit like his outsiders self.

anyways, there wasn't even a reliable archive besides fanfiction dot net. so if people made ooc b*tcest fic or art then, it won't have the reach it has now in influencing fellow fans. (that said, dc managed to hire a writer who ships br*dick, giving these b*tcest shippers fuel. the resulting mischaracterization of the way devin writes dick will help fuel his fanon self later on. so that's one example already of how b*tcest fucked up fanon)

so with the influx of new fans from young justice and the rise of tumblr, modern dc fandom was born and in came the b*tcest shippers with fanon characterizations based off the show and n52 comics and their own headcanons.

with the way tumblr is set up, it's easy for non-fans of the franchise to see content from your fandom so people who haven't read the comics started coming in as well because they liked the fan content they saw. comics is a very daunting medium for people to get into because of the amount of material that can conflict with each other there is. so a lot of these new fans like to consume only fanon.

with the amount of b*tcest artists and writers there was, even people who didn't ship it would see non-explicit fanon content from these creators and assume it's is accurate. and so, the fanon characterizations became slowly accepted and popular and they end up adapting these b*tcest shippers' headcanons as well.

it did not help that a lot of b*tcest shippers will make meta to make certain batfam members closer than they actually are. and people took this plus the out of context panels as word of god of how they actually act around each other.

for example of fanon things that might be influenced by b*tcest

batfam living all in the manor (they don't.)

jason and tim's closeness with another (besides that one lobdell page where jason said tim's the only one he can stand and we shouldn't even consider bc lobdell does jackshit to research, they weren't very close at all.)

jason's use of the baby bird nickname for tim (major red flag)

dick being promiscuous/a womanizer/someone who likes getting naked (he's not. there's much canon evidence of him being uncomfortable with being objectified, unsure about nudity and being extremely monogamous. it's just a mischaracterization perpetuated by devin grayson (br*dick shipper) and tim seeley (hack)

i could list more (or you guys can comment more) but i'm honestly losing steam writing this. jnfenf i think as a fandom, we're getting better at debunking fanon at least - especially since the influx of batfans has slowed down compared to its peak. plus, inc*st is being more and more widely denounced in fandom spaces at all.

anyway, those are my rambling thoughts on how b*tcest shippers influenced fanon jkfnjkenf

#if i get terminated for this i swear to god...#honestly a lot of this is speculation!!! but it's a theory lmaooo #i never said it's completely true jkfne #anon.txt #i refuse to tag this meta #batcest cw #incest mention cw #incest cw #fandom critical

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flashfuture · 3 years

Text

Batman and Robin

I wanna talk about the original dynamic duo and what they mean to each other, or one very specific issue that I love for nostalgia. That being Batman vol 1 20.

So just for context in the 1940s a single man was not going to adopt a child he had no blood connection with, it just wasn’t done. But in this issue that is being challenged. Okay panel time and yes Alfred used to look way different. I’m gonna put all this under a cut so it’s easy to scroll past if you’re not interested because there is a lot.

This has to be one of my absolute favorite panels from the golden age. Just them having a pillow fight and behaving like actual people

So then some random couple shows up claiming to be Dick’s aunt and uncle. Bruce is of course not appreciative of this.

Bruce refuses to give Dick to them and they say they’ll go to court. You can see right here their devotion to one another. Who knows what ages they want the characters to be but Dick has lived with Bruce for about three years at this point so maybe like eleven. So it’s been some time and like Bruce says Dick is like a son.

They don’t have a lawyer which was the weirdest part to me but whatever Bruce you do you. This is Alfred’s opinion on the matter.

This one is weird because the page lay out was weird but here we go with Bruce’s testimony. Unfortunately Bruce used all of his emotional reserves on this court case and can no longer express affection. Kidding but I always make that joke when I show people this comic.

And here is Dick’s turn. This is what I meant about Dick not seeing Bruce as a father right away. Even when Dick goes off to college he thanks Bruce for being a brother figure which was weird but whatever. In regards to this comic clearly Dick wants to stay with Bruce.

Interesting to see Bruce’s cover as a playboy come and bite him in the ass.

And he looses custody of Dick Grayson, not that it was a spoiler. The editorial title for the comic was literally, “Bruce Wayne Loses the Guardianship of Dick Grayson”

So you can clearly see that no one was happy with arrangement. And boy seeing Dick cry pulls at my heartstrings.

And this goes to show what Tim knew all along, Batman needs a Robin or you know a son.

Good news Dick clearly snuck out because Robin has work to do.

I would so adore it if Dick made a call back to this when Bruce insults his puns.

But of course Dick’s uncle is a monster who invites Bruce over for this. Which just jesus christ this was breezed by so quickly as were all Golden Age stories but it’s pretty fucked.

Batman doesn’t do ransoms, because to him this was just a glorified kidnapping, and goes to terrify these losers. Also yes Dick’s aunt was wearing a wig for some reason during the trial. Then they have Bruce kidnapped and Robin and Alfred go save him. It was weird and if you want screen shots I can give them but I’m gonna skip it.

I’m sure Bruce kicking someone out of court room would have been the biggest meme if it happened today.

And all is right in the world.

#DC comics #golden age comics #batman #bruce wayne #dick grayson #robin #alfred pennyworth #batman 1940 #batman 20 #comic panels #Bruce Wayne loves his children #batfam #long post

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bigskydreaming · 3 years

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You said Dick Grayson prompts so uh, Dick+being righteously angry?

There's a lot of people that talk about him having a temper but I don't really think they focus on What he gets angry about.

LMAO oh boy this is like, my favorite rant to end all rants and yes I have opinions on this. I’m gonna need a follow-up prompt here for like, gimme something specific for Dick to get mad about because there’s sooooo much material to work with.

Are we talking reactions to his time as Ric, reactions to his time with Spyral, being blamed for faking his death when like helloooooo, he was comatose at the time of Bruce spreading the word and fully embedded undercover before his own funeral even, like, his say-so never actually got said in any of that OR we talking like, his annoyance about people constantly making jokes about the name he keeps because its what his parents called him and meanwhile Alfred’s like “SWEAR JAR” every time a Batkid says “hell” in a fic but supposedly has no opinion on all of Dick’s siblings and Babs and teammates all making “Dick” into their insult of choice as though that’s all its good for....

OR are we talking about how even in the Christmas issue of Nightwing before the Future State event happened like, Bruce has lost most of his money during Joker War and still the comics are like oh here’s a cute scene, Dick pretending to be Bruce’s driver who like works for him rather than him introducing the people they’re helping to Bruce by being like “hey I want you to meet my dad, he’s gonna help you out here” or at the very least like introducing him as the man who raised him, what the fuck even was that chaffeur bit even, I don’t understand the impetus for making that choice BUT WHATEVER....

or OR are we talking Dick getting angry because people want to give all the credit to Tim for getting him and Bruce to talk to each other again after Jason’s death as though the credit shouldn’t go to Dick himself for choosing to put aside his personal hurt and resentment about how he DID go to Bruce after Jason’s death, without prompting, and Bruce’s response had been to blame Dick for Jason’s death and kick him out of the house, OR are we gonna talk about the many times and many ways that even Dick’s teammates on the Titans and the Outsiders like to make everything his fault as though none of them ever make choices in all of that ever or like most of Dick’s greatest hits mistake wise aren’t made when he’s literally brainwashed but nobody cares to bring that context up even when giving him shit about stuff that happened years ago and oh yeah, while he wasn’t even in full control of himself

OR should we talk about Dick getting pissed at all the other Robins basing so much of themselves around their time in that role and using it to take potshots at each other and fight and resent him but without any of them ever respecting him for his time as Robin or thanking him for what Robin actually brought to their lives which presumably it did do at least something there or else it wouldn’t matter so much to all of them in the first place and again oh yeah its not like it would even exist to impact their lives in the first place if not for his hard work and precedent in establishing that mantle

OR are we gonna talk about Dick getting pissed because everyone always seems to notice when he’s not around to help them with their problems but how often do they pop down to his city just to check in with him and how he’s doing and guest star in order to help him with his issues or bad guys (like seriously, its like once a decade, and even then they usually only make the trip down to his city in order to vent to him about Bruce or what’s going on in their lives)

OR are we gonna talk about how Dick apologizes for something practically every time he interacts with a family member but when was the last time anyone apologized to him for anything, like even in allegedly iconic storylines like Batman and Robin Eternal where we have every single one of Dick’s brothers hitting him, he still ends up apologizing to each and every one of them for like, giving them reason to hit him and be mad at him when holy shit nooooooo that is so fucked up what is WRONG with that logic, not to mention all the fics that are like “every time Jason’s mad at Dick which is always, he gets one free punch to feel better” like oh hey, that’s definitely a choice being made there.....

Anyway. I mean. I barely have any thoughts on this subject ever, so I’m obviously going to need another prompt to stir up some ideas and passion on this particular topic, otherwise like I would definitely be at a complete loss here.

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