#i have never been so interested-alienated in regards to a fandom before
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okay so. skirk thoughts
first of all: as much as her design is still just kind of an ehhh compared to what couldve been, i do think it looks so much better in the actual game. the sfx in her arms and legs in particular helps a Lot imo. still not a massive fan but given i already loved the hair+eyes as well as the general color scheme, im warming up to it. still unfortunate we didnt get something more ambitious but i can live with this lmao
personality wise i actually really love how they went about her? its a little unexpected but skirk really has that abyss autism rizz to her JSJSIDISGFK love it. like this really isnt someone used to any manner of regular human interactions and it shows. i really like how blunt and utterly unfazed she is even when dropping some insane lore bombs bc theyre just peanuts to her. shes just completely unlike any character from any faction weve encountered before and i rly love the energy they gave her
i also found her little ramble about the value of life and death pretty interesting. it almost makes it sound like she considers herself dead in some way? with how she talks about there being no point in holding onto the bonds and remains of dead things and how this personal philosophy of hers is why she never comes to the surface anymore. like huh. whats up with that.
it also really reminds me of how an underappreciated aspect of childes characterization imo is how like. Incredibly insistent he is on staying alive being the most valuable thing? like this comes up Repeatedly in his voicelines. and now we have skirk literally talking about how to live is in itself a blessing. like i am Not buying this being coincidental at all. so unless they physically disprove me in this somehow down the line im taking this as 100% proof that childes high regard for life is Directly imparted to him through skirks teachings. and thats really interesting to think about.
and like. overall im quite happy with this glimpse of her character we have? i have bigger issues with the overall handling of the childe+narwhal+skirk segment of the AQ but those are narrative problems. skirk really stands out as a character and shes just. really fascinating AND funny as fuck in her nonchalance like. what an icon.
the only real unfortunate thing w her appearence specifically i think just has to do with the way her manner of speech and position as a narrator of dubious reliability to an extent is already leading to some. Quite unfortunate misreadings and/or taking the implications of her statements too far at face value. and i just know fandom will latch onto those forever 😭
(& jic i dont mean dubious reliability in the traditional unreliable narrator or like. lying or sth sense. just that her worldview is so alien and foreign to us that it should be taken into careful account before just blindly running off with any particular thing she claims)
like. firstly. the narwhal. ppl really dont seem to be catching onto how skirks perception of it as just a scuffed pet thats a hassle to manage isnt like. actually reflective of what a massive deal of an entity it is (read the boss fight quest item drop lore i am begging. or just wait for me to start narwhalposting JAJSKDK its coming 100%) 💀💀 what it DOES reflect more than anything is what an absolute maniac surtalogi (+ skirk by extension) has to be in order to claim a creature of this magnitude as a PET of all things. its also good to note that skirk herself readily admits both her highly unconventional view on most things AND that her master wont necessarily share any and all information with her - more so what he thinks is pertinent for her to know. her assessment of the narwhal as a nuisance of a task for a disciple isnt really reflective of the ultimate big picture HSJDKDKSK though it is very funny i have to admit.
im just preemptively annoyed and frustrated by it already bc its highkey giving azhdaha all over again where 99% of fandom just dismissed his deeper lore bc they took the storytellers claims of zhongli creating him at complete face value. like to the point hoyo had to literally add a whole segment at the end of the chasm interlude where zhongli more or less directly wink wink nod nods that a career entertainer isnt giving you the most accurate lore on this stuff 😭😭 like please. ive had the tears from among the stars lore fucking HAUNTING me ever since i first read it. its not just a silly pet whale im hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
and secondly. people really jumping the gun on "haha skirk thinks childe weak" when she was... quite literally speaking in past tense JSJSKDKSISKDK thats ajax 14 not the current state of things. while i do agree skirks power level is still way above his to the point i absolutely do think she considers him weak from her standpoint & ways off from his true potential, id also just.... like to point out that she pretty much confirms that her view of his competence has very much changed too? like please yall
skirk, who in all the years post ajax' 3 day abyss trip made NO effort to contact or keep up with him whatsoever and stated that her disciple wasnt worth even speaking to in the past has now LITERALLY voiced the intent to assign him the task of being a messenger between herself (possibly even surtalogi) and neuvillette. and she has made it VERY clear that she views the communication between herself and neuvillette (and traveler too) as one between equals?
this isnt her assigning childe some irrelevant side quest to keep him busy but actually utilizing him for a task she takes at least relatively seriously. like wdym she still considers him the exact same as before 😭😭😭😭 like obviously childes far off from being regarded as anywhere near an equal by skirk bc SHES just that insanely powerful but seriously. to me this is as clear an acknowledgement of his growth on her part as we will get JSJSKDKFKSKDKJ
but alas. everyone loves a "ha ha childe so weak XDDDD" like they just never wanna let that one go. Man
anyway still rly like skirk!!! all im Really hoping for in the future Especially w how i feel the 4.2 narrative while overall brilliant really sidelined and mishandled the potential and gravity of the narwhal side of things is that like. PLEASE let the interlude be the continuation to this 3rd descender n skirk n childe abyss situation i am so fucking tired of khaenri'ah and the abyss order im sorry lmao
also itll be like 4 years before we ever see her in Real action as a combatant but i am already So hype to see that. especially since her powers are so abyssal and alien in nature like thats going to be So gourmet i just know it.
#whew. that eas a bit.#but like im sooooo happy i ended up liking her as much as i did . i really worried i would end up let down somehow bc#skirk has been such a mysterious lore figure in the bg all this time and that by itself builds hype that can end up just falling flat#but im really glad im just even more invested in her situation now that shes finally made an appearancr#just hope we can get at least some interactions between her n ajax sooner than later.#ALSO. YEA THAT WAS A LETDOWN. disciple suits ok its fine but man i wish shed call him ajax 😭😭 hopium she still does when its at his face#rambles#genshin#genshin spoilers#4.2 spoilers#long post
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I really am not one to romanticize things, but there are so many things people ignore, twist or leave out completely when discussing Daemon's feelings for Rhaenyra because they want to portray her as unloved or as unworthy of love and it really becomes annoying.
First of all, when he first asked for Rhaenyra's hand in marriage, only the actual death threat stopped him from insisting on the matter/pursuing her any further.
"Viserys refused, and instead exiled Daemon from the Seven Kingdoms, never to return upon penalty of death."
(Add the fact that he was exiled and could not actually do anything regarding their situation once Viserys banished him.)
Then there are his actions after Laena's death, which most people conveniently "forget" about. When Daemon does indeed run away with Rhaenyra and marries her in secret, he actually has - in terms of personal and political gain - more to lose than Rhaenyra does. He not only risks alienating his in-laws, Corlys and Rhaenys, the Velaryons, (remember, the richest house), by: 1) disrespecting Laena's memory by not even mourning her properly (Viserys very clearly states it's an insult), and 2) by also being the prime suspect (and certainly the guilty one) in Laenor's death.
He also alienates himself from his own brother: "It took some time before Viserys and Daemon reconciled."
(People might say the Viserys aspect is not relevant to Daemon, but this is the same Daemon that begged his brother to forgive him and let him return to Court only to give his blessing to his children.)
Now I know this will certainly upset some people, but: with Laena he did not defy absolutely anyone. Corlys agreed and Viserys was still enstranged from him for years as Daemon was still in exile. This time, with Rhaenyra, Daemon actually has good relationships with both parties, and he very clearly says: fuck the Velaryons and fuck Viserys, only so he could marry Rhaenyra. It's an interesting aspect coming from his side and one that it's not actually discussed or acknowledged. Or people do aknowledge it, but refuse to talk about it because it does prove that Daemon loved Rhaenyra, and we can't have that in this fandom. 🙄
Hi there,
I don't think it's accurate to say that Daemon had more to lose than Rhaenyra. Not in the slightest.
Rhaenyra could have lost her crown if Viserys decided to disinherit her when she married Daemon. Rhaenyra was raised to rule, this was a big part of her identity and something she grew up from the time she was a little girl expecting her.
See below:
Without being Princess of Dragonstone, she would have nothing to her really, which is why she eventually and after Viserys's threats accepts her marriage with Laenor in 114 AC.
Daemon has nowhere this type of skin in the game. He had been exiled from court two times before, he has fallen down far too low in the line of succession to ever be a candidate again. If he was exiled a third time, he would probably just do what he did before - go to the Stepstones. He was a warrior, a conqueror in a sense, and a man. He had much more options and "second chances" than Rhaenyra who was a woman with three small children.
As for the Velaryons they wouldn't really be able to turn their back on Daemon unless Viserys also did, since Viserys could make demands on his brother's name. Moreover, their granddaughters were Daemon's daughters. As their father, Daemon "owned" them in a way - women were under their father's protection and then under the protection of their husbands - so if they wanted to send him away and exile him from Driftmark, they would risk not seeing Baela and Rhaena again. In this regard, Daemon had them by the cojones.
Also important to mention is the fact that he was not a suspect in murdering Laenor. They knew who had murdered Laenor -> Qarl Correy - Daemon was a suspect of paying Qarl to do it. Accusing the king's brother could be considered High Treason, so unless the Velaryons had proof, best for them to keep quiet since the consequences could be dire. Viserys would also not believe it, as we see time and time again he always forgave Daemon and tried to believe the best about him. Hells. he forgives him in 117 AC, five years after him and Rhaenyra were caught together.
"People might say the Viserys aspect is not relevant to Daemon, but this is the same Daemon that begged his brother to forgive him and let him return to Court only to give his blessing to his children" - This is also something I think you're not understanding. Daemon wasn't seeking his brother's forgiveness because Viserys was important to him. He was doing so because his return to Westeros, and his own daughters' future as members of House Targaryen was dependent on Viserys's good will. The power a king had cannot be overstated, and as someone under a king's rule, you would be dependent on his good will. I can recommend you to listen/read to some of the last words of people condemn to death by kings. The vast majority of them always praised the king who was condemning them because they knew, even then, that unless they repented and sought after mercy, that their family and friends could have a world of trouble in the future, that their lives could even be in danger.
I especially recommend the last words of Anne Boleyn, her "death speech" in a sense. She knew well that she had been framed, and that Henry VIII had wanted to get rid of her. However, she was leaving behind a daughter, friends, family members, and it was important that she kept them safe by even before her death, humbling herself to Henry VIII.
This was the kind of power a king had -> even when he sentenced someone to die, the person still had to praise him and speak of their love for him.
There's no better line to describe what Daemon felt for Viserys than this, and if anyone wants to understand what Daemon thought of Viserys, in my very humble opinion, this is what they should think about -> "he spoke no syllable of grief, but his heart hardened against the king, his brother. Thereafter he spoke of King Viserys only with disdain, and began to brood day and night on the succession." (Fire and Blood, pg. 360).
Daemon is not a misunderstood hero that needs defending. History defends him enough already. He was in the words of GRRM "a rogue if there ever was one". As I have said before, if a character needs defending it's Rhaenyra who no one in history tries to defend or even made to look "cool". She's vilanised and the fandom eats that up like candy, never questioning anything and just always believing the worst.
It's never wise to seek to make a grey character white, and we don't have to do it. In fact, I think the allure of Daemon Targaryen is just how unapologetically self serving he is, and we love him for it!
Now I agree he risked very little for Laena (if anything), and that he did risk more for Rhaenyra, but let's not pretend his motives in pursuing Rhaenyra and what he was risking for her were all that noble, or that he gave half a toss in upsetting Viserys even because he confirmed to his brother what happened between himself and Rhaenyra before he asked for her hand in marriage.
We don't have to find noble causes in everything. Characters can be selfish and self-serving and have toxic dynamics and we can still ship them and enjoy them. Just because I like Daemyra doesn't mean I'm going to whitewash them and see everything Daemon did as a big pure demonstration of love for Rhaenyra because it was not and I say this as one of the biggest Daemyra shippers out there who has probably written more than anyone about them. But loving won't make me only see what I want to see, even because... quite honestly some of the takes people have on them are very boring and don't have a leg to stand on.
Now, I do think Daemon desired Rhaenyra a lot - past her crown - I do think they clearly had mad chemistry and couldn't stay away from each other. That Rhaenyra was more than a little obsessed with Daemon to the point of it not being very healthy. I also think he wanted her to be his wife and that in his own way, he cared and even "loved" her. I think in his "brownie-point" system for women Rhaenyra was #1. I also think there are very tragic elements of their story and there's something very cathartic about them being together, and finally marrying, and I think that they were soulmates, they had very similar personalities. But Daemon was not exactly acting out of the kindness of his heart and without interest. He wasn't "risking" everything for her, sorry, I don't and will never subscribe to that idea.
I get the frustration, believe me I've been here since 2019 and since 2018 I have read takes about them. I started writing my fic in a time in which you had to apologise for shipping Daemyra because they were the pinnacle of the bad Targaryens. The response to this, however, cannot be to come up with an entirely different version of who they are. We have to honour the bad and good and acknowledge both, and I trust that no one with sense gets into the asoiaf books because they are expecting very white unproblematic characters.
I like my kings and queens to want power not apologise for it.
I want people to say f_ck you to arranged marriages.
I want my female characters to want to be mothers and wives and still be badasses that hand men their a** to them on a platter.
I want my characters grey.
I don't want Disney.
And I will continue to stan and clap at the silver-haired hot people who ride dragons and I don't have to find a holier than thou reason to do so.
✊🏻
PS: Please note anything I write only concerns the asoiaf events and characters so please leave redacted and any redacted inspired comments and Ryan's fanfiction away from my posts. There's the asoiaf canon and then there's the got canon. You can pick one but you don't get to pick and choose between one and the other to fit an agenda.
#rhaenyra targaryen#daemon targaryen#canon daemyra#book canon#canon rhaenyra targaryen#canon daemon targaryen#the rogue prince#the princess and the queen#fire and blood#house targaryen#daemon x rhaenyra#rhaenyra x daemon#dance of the dragons#popcorn answers
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So, I've mentioned this before, but I've been thinking about it again so I'm finally making it into a proper post. Do you ever think about how Jouno's ability alienates him from the Hunting Dogs?
As in, all of them have a specific job in the team, and their abilities fit it perfectly.
Teruko specialises in interrogation, with an ability that makes people extremely vulnerable to torture.
Tecchou's job is fighting, with an ability that makes it impossible to escape his sword.
Tachihara is a spy, with an ability allows him to easily access, steal or change data.
Fukuchi is... well, Fukuchi, but he's their leader, a living legend, with an ability that makes him basically invincible.
Jouno's job is localisation/capture, and he's made out for it, too. We have seen that his senses let him scan an extremely high radius within seconds, and he's a human lie detector. You literally can't hide anything from him, physically or mentally.
Except that these skills have nothing to do with his ability. In fact, while all other Hunting Dogs have abilities that give them major advantages on their field of expertise, Jouno's is literally useless here.
On the other hand, what are the advantages his ability gives him? He can't be hurt by most weapons, and he can easily escape from almost anything.
It's a perfect ability for a criminal. Especially a high-ranking member of a criminal organisation or, taking it a step further, a terrorist (AKA, a member of the DOA). It doesn't even take any interpretation to come to this conclusion, since it's literally one of the reasons why Fukuchi recruited him in the first place. It's still sort of sad to think about it, because it emphasises how he was never meant to be a Hunting Dog like the others and that despite everything, this puts him in a sort of outsider position.
"But Silver," I hear you say. "What about Tachihara then? He was a criminal too, so shouldn't he be in the same situation?"
I'm glad you asked!
Well, the real answer is probably that he wasn't recruited to join the DOA (or so we can assume?) and his ability was a convenient coincidence. But the nice thing about fandom is that we can sometimes ignore the simple explanations, because I actually have a (separate) headcanon that could explain this, too.
If you've ever heard me talk about them, you know that I headcanon that Jouno first suggested/encouraged Tachihara to take the job in the Mafia, but this might add something interesting to that thought as well.
Because there would be the possibility that this thought crossed his mind. Sure, metal manipulation offers endless possibilities, but as Teruko mentioned it's a perfect ability for a spy; about as fitting as, say, a fighter being able to extend and twist his blade as he likes.
Tachihara was looking for a place to belong. He explicitly confirmed this more than one time. Now, we don't know enough about Jouno and his past to tell if the same applied to him, but we do know that he came to like his job, and if we want to overanalyse we can even say that he might have sort of an inferiority complex regarding his position in the team. Either way, in context of this, he gives Tachihara an opportunity he never got, and never will get.
I'm pretty sure I'm overinterpreting this as it's two headcanons supporting each other with no proper canon base, but it's really interesting to think about what this would mean for the Hunting Dogs cycle. Because while yes, Fukuchi didn't pick Jouno just because of his ability, it still connects him to the DOA rather than the Hunting Dogs, while it's the opposite in Tachihara's case, with his ability getting him in the Mafia, where he essentially belongs. Jouno's ability ties him to his past, Tachihara's ability offers him a future.
#and that's on today's overinterpretation of an offhand detail#bungou stray dogs#bsd#hunting dogs bsd#bsd jouno#jouno bsd#spoilers#bungou stray dogs spoilers#tachihara bsd#bsd tachihara
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The only way I could think of a way for Ramon to know globox and/or potentially Ly is that the loss and destruction of dimension x was so traumatic it absolutely fucked with his memories. Losing your home in the worse way possible is bound to have horrific consequences on the psyche, and in some cases could even cause permanent memory loss as well or resurface YEARS later. Plus I wouldn't be surprised if the last he saw of the both of them, it was in a way he would've thought they died as well. Coupled with the fact that Ramon is also an alien, no one knows how things work with him either, and since he came at a seemingly young age when the American government was falling apart but still in power, no one wanted to try and help either. This would also explain while mentioning he came from there, he never talks about what dimension x was like before the rabbid invasion , he don't remember shit and his brain is trying to protect him from that. Ngl it would be really interesting if meeting globox and the others again initially do more HARM than good, especially seeing someone they know act so differently than before.
Sorry for the slight rambling but Adi's answers from the tokyopop thing got me thinking of things. Idk if they'll even go down that road, they'll probably go down the friendless background road which also very much has great potential as well.
Gotta say I love the idea of Ramon mind being so messed up he doesn’t even remember his old life, beautiful angst potential right there
If we are going with the route that Ramon did have friends before his life at Eden, then I think it’d make more sense if the destruction of the Glade/Dimension X happened during the events of the second Rayman game, rather then a later game. Like the Rayman timeline split off into the “canon” Rayman who went on to save the glade and the Laserhawk Ramon whose life is an utter mess
Let’s go with the assumption that the games release order is also the order they appear in the Rayman timeline for sanity’s sake, the Rayman series has very little grasp of canon and every game has conflicting information with each other. While I personally don’t think Rayman was a kid in the first game (I think it was a totally different person) I’m just going with that direction for this particular analysis regarding Ramon’s character and his potential parallels with Dolph
(This isn’t actually relevant to anything but I personally dislike the idea of humans being native to the Glade of Dreams, it’s more of a pet peeve than anything else. Having said that I do like the idea of Barbara and her sister existing in the Laserhawk universe)
The second game is the one where Razerbeard destroyed the heart of the world and came the closest of Rayman’s villains to actually beat Rayman. I’m not just suggesting this because Adi brought up Razerbeard , but between Razerbeard and the robo pirates being specifically tech based , much like Eden, in contrast to the glade being strong with nature and them being a far more dangerous and threatening enemy compared to Mr Dark in the first game. (If we’re ignoring what the fandom does, Mr Dark is a cake stealing dork who hired clowns as his minions , a very different tone to what Razerbeard brings to the table) , if any of Rayman’s villains were to be responsible for the destruction of Rayman’s home, it’s most likely Razerbeard’s doing
Actually wouldn’t shock me if the inclusion of the Rabbids in Laserhawk has been a red herring this whole time. Rayman had very little reaction when reporting on the keiju attack, and was quick to argue against Red’s comments regarding aliens despite Red very clearly talking about the Rabbids. Like…… you’d think Rayman wouldn’t be so defensive over Red shit talking the monsters who destroyed his old home…. Unless the Rabbids aren’t the ones responsible for the destruction of dimension x
it’s also worth bringing up that the Rabbids in this universe are keiju, yet in the “Ray of Hope” film they appear much closer to their canon versions. What kind of propaganda purpose does that serve exactly? Everyone knows the Rabbids are giant monsters…. Unless they weren’t always faint monsters and somehow became …. Corrupted?
…… we never do learn what happens to Glade residents when the heart of the world stays destroyed, do we?
Something interesting to bear in mind is that Globox , Ly and various iconic characters such as the Teensies don’t make an appearance in the first game. It’s entirely possible in this remixed universe, the circumstances that lead to Rayman to meeting his friends didn’t happen here, yet the pirate invasion happened regardless.
I wanna bring attention to the fact that Rayman is a kid in the first game, and most likely still a child when the robot pirates invaded. If you take the origins trailer as some form of fact regarding Betilla being responsible for his creation , then it’s not far fetched to suggest Rayman was a born to be the protector of the glade of dreams
Yes, Rayman and Dolph are both child soldiers. It just possible in this universe, Rayman was a failed child soldier whereas Dolph succeeded at his duty (until he left the army)
@levy120 actually did some fantastic speciation fanfics before the Laserhawk series came out and the assumption was Rayman was going to be evil. While we know now that isn’t the case for Rayman’s character, I still think that it’s worth checking out
side note but I love the idea of the fairy council/glade of dreams government being sketchy as hell and Rayman being somewhat of a pawn to them. Rayman has a lot more freedom and it’s not Eden levels of awful, but it’s still sketchy
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💕 self-love time! talk about which ones of YOUR creations (edits, artworks, fanfics) you like the most then send to other creators to do the same 💕
Hiii 😁 thank you for the ask! Sorry it took me a while to answer, but I was really stressed about one of my exams and I didn't feel in a good enough mood to praise my own work.
But that exam is done now, and I've had some time to relax and I'm now ready to talk about my works!
There are two works and one series of fics that I am really really proud of, and that I really love (tho, tbh I write for myself mostly, so really, I think all my fics are amazing in their own way 😂)
Under the stars. This is the first multi chapter fic I've finished, and the first proper fluff fic I've written. There's something about this fic that I find very soothing, and whenever I reread it I love it even more. It was also a challenge to write, since my romantic experiences are inexistent, I am still amazed that I wrote 19k of fluff. Obviously, now, about a year after posting it, there's stuff I would write differently, it's still a fic I love and I'm really proud of.
J'avais les yeux occupés à regarder l'passé. This is the first rnm fic I ever wrote. And it is probably the fic I am the most proud of. And I love it so much that I am currently rewriting it, and I will finish it. I have always been very interested in the science behind time travel, and with this fic I decided to also look at the "human" aspect of it (i.e. what do you do when you find yourself in the past). I also wanted to explore the relationships between the main characters as teenagers and as parents (so both pre and post canon), and how those two moments in time influence each other.
You are the Superwoman to my Lois Lane. Once again here I am writing a romantic story while knowing absolutely nothing about romance (other than what I've read in books and fics). This series of fics is very fun to write, and I have lots of ideas I want to explore with Anatsa and Isobel. I guess it's partly because we don't know anything about Anatsa, I feel like whatever I write cannot contradict canon and it gives me a sense of freedom when I write about them. This is also more recent work, and I do feel like my writing has improved quite a lot in the year or so I've been writing for this fandom, so naturally I am quite proud of myself here.
So these are the three main fanfics I am the most proud of. But as I said before, I do love all the fics I've written. Since, you know, I am my own target audience. Of course, I am extremely happy that there are ppl who enjoy what I write, so thank you to everyone who reads my fics I live you guys ❤️
But how could I talk about the work I'm proud of without mentioning the one that was the most time consuming, that gave me the most headaches, that took away hours of sleep. The project that made me discover fields of research I never thought I would enjoy or even be interested in. My RNM Science Meta (here is the link to the bunch of tumblr posts, and here is the link to the overleaf document, which currently lays at 54 pages, and where everything is organised properly)
Honestly, nothing could ever compare to the pride I feel about this meta. It's the longest project I've ever worked on, longer even than some of the academic papers I've had to write so far.
Anyway, if you haven't already guessed it, I love talking about the stuff I write, and I love the stuff I write, and I will not stop writing about this stupid little alien show.
#thank you for the ask!! ❤️#i will shamelessly advertise my own fics every opportunity i can 😂#thesquidkid does meta#thesquidkid writes
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mdzs fandom, diaspora, and cultural exchange
Hey everyone. This post contains a statement that’s been posted to my twitter, but was a collaborative effort between several diaspora fans over the last few weeks. Some of the specifics are part of a twitter-localized discourse, but the general sentiments and issues raised are applicable across the board, including here on tumblr.
If you’ve been following me for a while, you’ve probably seen a few of my posts about this fandom, cultural exchange, and diasporic identity. For example, here, here, and here. This statement more directly criticizes some of the general issues I and others have raised in the past, and also hopefully provides a little more insight into where those issues come from. I would be happy if people took the time to read and reblog this, as the thought that went into it is not trivial, and neither is the subject matter. Thank you.
Introduction
Hello. I'm a member of a Chinese diaspora discord server - I volunteered to try and compile a thread of some thoughts regarding our place and roles in the fandom expressed in some of our recent discussions. This was primarily drafted by me and reviewed/edited by others with the hopes that we can share a cohesive statement on our honest feelings instead of repeatedly sharing multiple, fragmented versions of similar threads in isolation.
This was compiled by one group of diaspora and cannot be taken to represent diaspora as a whole, but we hope that our input can be considered with compassion and understanding of such.
For context, we are referencing two connected instances: the conflict described in these two threads (here and here), and when @/jelenedra tweeted about giving Jewish practices to the Lans. Regarding the latter, we felt that it tread into the territory of cultural erasure, and that it came from a person who had already disrespected diaspora’s work and input.
Context
The Lans have their own religious and cultural practices, rooted both in the cultural history of China and the genre of xianxia. Superimposing a different religious practice onto the Lans amidst other researched, canonical or culturally accurate details felt as if something important of ours was being overwritten for another’s personal satisfaction. Because canon is so intrinsically tied to real cultural, historical, and religious practices, replacing those practices in a canon setting fic feels like erasure. While MDZS is a fantasy novel, the religious practices contained therein are not. This was uncomfortable for many of us, and we wanted to point it out and have it resolved amicably. We were hoping for a discussion or exchange as there are many parallels and points of relation between Chinese and Jewish cultures, but that did not turn out quite as expected.
What happened next felt like a long game of outrage telephone that resulted in a confusion of issues that deflected responsibility, distracted from the origin of the conflict, and swept our concern under the rug.
Specifically, we are concerned about how these two incidents are part of what we feel is a repeated, widespread pattern of the devaluing of Chinese fans’ work and concerns within this fandom. This recent round of discourse is just one of many instances where we have found ourselves in a position of feeling spoken over within a space that is nominally ours. Regardless of what the telephone game was actually about, the way it played out revealed something about how issues are prioritized.
Background
MDZS is one of the first and largest franchises of cmedia that has become popular and easily accessible outside of China. Moreover, it’s a piece of queer Chinese media that is easily accessible to those of us overseas. For many non-Chinese fans, this is the first piece of cmedia they have connected with, and it’s serving as their introduction to a culture previously opaque to them. What perhaps is less obvious is that for many Chinese diaspora fans, this is also the first piece of cmedia THEY have connected with, found community with, seen themselves in.
Many, many of us have a fraught relationship with our heritage, our language—we often suffer from a sense of alienation, both from our families and from our surrounding peers. For our families, our command of the language and culture is often considered superficial, clunky, childish. Often, connecting with our culture is framed as a mandatory academic duty, and such an approach often fosters resentment towards our own heritage. For our non-Chinese peers, our culture is seen as exotic and strange and other, something shiny and interesting to observe, while we, trapped in the middle, find ourselves uprooted and adrift.
MDZS holds an incredibly important place in many diaspora’s hearts. Speaking for myself, this is literally the first time in my life I have felt motivated and excited about my own native tongue. It's the first time I have felt genuine hope that I might one day be able to speak and read it without fear and self-doubt. It is also the first time that so many people have expressed interest in learning from me, in hearing my thoughts and opinions about my culture.
This past year and a half in fandom has been an incredible experience. I know that I am not alone in this. So many diaspora I have spoken to just in the last week have expressed similar sentiments about the place MDZS holds in their lives. It is a precious thing to us, both because we love the story itself, and because it represents a lifeline to a heritage that’s never felt fully ours to grasp.
It’s wonderful to feel like we are able to welcome our friends into our home and show them all these things that have been so formative to our identities, and to be received with such enthusiasm and interest. Introducing this to non-Chinese friends and fans has also been an opportunity to bridge gaps and be humanized in a way that has been especially important in a year where yellow peril fear mongering has been at an all-time high.
History
However, MDZS’ rise in popularity among non-Chinese audiences has also come with certain difficulties. It is natural to want to take a story you love and make it your own: that’s what transformative fandom is all about. It is also natural that misunderstandings and unintentional missteps might happen when you aren’t familiar with the ins and outs of the culture and political history of the story in question. This is understandable and forgivable—perfection is impossible, even for ourselves.
We hope for consideration and respect when we give our knowledge freely and when we raise the issue of our own discomfort with certain statements or actions regarding our culture. Please remember that what is an isolated incident to you might be a pattern of growing microaggressions to us. In non-Asian spaces, Asian diaspora are often lumped together under one umbrella. In the west, a lot of Chinese diaspora attach themselves to Korean and Japanese media in order to feel some semblance of connection to a media which approximates our cultures because there are cultural similarities. This is the first time we've collectively found community around something that is actually ours, so the specificities matter.
There is a bitterness about being Asian diaspora and a misery in having to put up a united front about racial issues. Enmity towards one group becomes a danger to all of us, all while our own conflicted histories with one another continue to pass trauma down through the generations. Many of us don’t even watch anime in front of our grandparents because of that lingering cultural antipathy. When the distinctions between our cultures are muddled, it feels once again like that very fraught history is flattened and forgotten.
Without the lived experience of it, it’s hard to understand how pervasive the contradictory web of anti-Asian and, more specifically, anti-Chinese racial aggressions are and how insidious its effects are. The conflation of China the political entity (as perceived and presented by the US and Europe) with its people, culture, and diaspora results in an exhausting litany of criticism levied like a bludgeon, often by people who don’t understand the complicated nature of a situation against those of us who do.
There is often a frankly stunning lack of self-awareness re: cultural biases and blind spots when it comes to discussions of MDZS, particularly moral ones. There are countless righteous claims and hot takes on certain aspects of the story, its author, and the characters that are so clearly rooted in a Euroamerican political and moral framework that does not reflect Chinese cultural realities and experiences. Some of these takes have become so widespread they are essentially accepted as fanon.
This is a pattern of behavior within the fandom. It is not limited to any specific group, nor does it even exclude ourselves—we are, after all, not a monolith, and we should not be placed on pedestals to have our differing opinions weaponized against one another in fandom squabbles. We are not flawless in our own understandings and approaches, and we would appreciate it if others would remember this before using any of us as ultimate authorities to settle a personal score.
It is difficult not to be disheartened when enthusiastic interest crosses the line into entitled demand and when transformative work crosses into erasure, especially when the reactions to our raised concerns have so frequently been dismissive and hostile. The overwhelming cultural and emotional labor we bring to the table is often taken advantage of and then criticized in bad faith. We are bombarded with racist aggressions, micro and macro, and then met with ridicule and annoyance when we push back. Worse, we sometimes face accusations of hostility that force us to apologize, back down, and let the matter go.
When we bring up our issues, it usually seems to come with the expectation that there are other issues that should be addressed before we can address ours. It feels like it’s never really the time to talk about Asian issues.
On the internet and in fandom spaces, Western-coded media, politics and perspectives are assumed to be general knowledge and experience that everyone knows and has. It feels like a double standard that we are expected to know the ins and outs of western politics and to engage on these terms, but most non-Chinese have not even the slightest grasp of the sort of politics that are at play within our communities. We end up feeling used for our specialized knowledge and cultural background and then dismissed when our opinions and problems are inconvenient.
As the culture represented in MDZS is not a culture that most non-Chinese fans are familiar with, we’d like to remind you that you do not get to decide which parts of it are or are not important. While sharing this space with Chinese diaspora who have a close connection to the work and the painful history that goes along with being diaspora, we ask that you be mindful of listening to our concerns.
Cultural erasure is tied to a lot of intense historical and generational trauma for us that maybe isn't immediately evident: the horrors of the Pacific theatre, the far-reaching consequences of colonization, racial tensions both among ourselves and with non-Chinese etc. These are not minor or simple things, and when we talk about our issues within fandom, this is often what underlies them. This is one of the first and only places many of us have been able to find community to discuss our unique issues without feeling as if we’re speaking out of turn.
With the HK protests, COVID, the anti-Chinese platforms of the US election etc., anti-Chinese sentiment has been at the forefront of the global news cycle for some time now, and it is with complete sincerity that we emphasize once again how important MDZS fandom has been as a haven for humanizing and valuing Chinese people through cultural exchange.
Experiencing racial aggression within that space stings, not just because it’s a space we love, but because it feels like we’ve been swimming in rapidly rising racial aggression for over a year at this point.
Feelings
This is a difficult topic to broach at the best of times, and these are not the best of times. Many of us have a wariness of rocking the boat instilled in us from our upbringings, and it is not uncommon for us to feel like we should be grateful that people want to engage with something of ours at all. When we do decide to speak up, we’ve learned that there is a not insignificant chance that we’ll be turned on and trampled over because what we’ve said is inconvenient or uncomfortable. When it is already so difficult to speak up, we end up second-guessing and gaslighting ourselves into wondering whether there really was a problem at all.
We’d like to be able to share what we know about our culture and have our knowledge and experience be taken seriously and treated with courtesy. This is a beautiful, rich world built with the history of our ancestors, one that we too are trying to connect with. When we find it in ourselves to speak up about it, we would appreciate being met with consideration instead of hostility.
We don't have the luxury of stepping away from our culture when we get tired of it. We don't get to put it down and walk away when it’s difficult. But if you're not Chinese or Chinese diaspora, you get to put this book down—we'd like to kindly request that you put it down gently because of how much it matters to all of us in this fandom, regardless of heritage.
What we are asking for is reflection and thoughtfulness as we continue to engage with this work and with one another, especially with regards to how Chinese issues are positioned. When we raise issues of our own discomfort, please take a moment to reflect before reacting defensively or trying to shut us down for spoiling the fun—don’t deprioritize our concerns, especially in a fandom for a piece of Chinese media. We promise most of us are not trying to start shit for the sake of a fight. Most of the time, all we want is acknowledgement and a genuine attempt at understanding.
Our hope with this statement is to encourage more openness and understanding between diaspora and non-Chinese fans while we navigate this place that we’re sharing. Please remember that for many of us, MDZS is far more intense than a typical fandom experience. Remember that the knowledge we have and research we do is freely and happily given, and that it costs us both materially and emotionally. Please don’t take that for granted. Remember too that sometimes the reason for our discomfort may not be immediately evident to you: what seems culturally neutral and harmless might touch upon specific loaded issues for us. We ask for patience, and we ask for sincerity as we try to communicate with one another.
We are writing this because there’s a collective sense of imposed silence—that every time the newest round of discourse crops up, we often feel as if we’re walking away having created no meaningful change, and nursing new wounds that we’ll never get to address. But without speaking up about it, this is a cycle that will keep repeating.
This is not meant to shame or guilt the fandom into throwing themselves at our feet, either to thank us or beg for forgiveness—far from that. We’re just your friends and your fellow fans. We are happy to have you here, and we’re happy to create and share and play together. We just ask to be respected and heard.
Thank you. Thank you for listening. Several of us will be stepping back from twitter for a while. We’ll see you when we get back. ❤️
* A final addendum: here are two articles with solid practical advice on writing stories regarding a culture other than your own.
Cultural Appropriation for the Worried Writer: Some Practical Advice
Cultural Appropriation: Some More Practical Advice
The thread on twitter is linked in the source of this post. Thanks everyone.
#mdzs#mdzs meta#the untamed#the untamed meta#cql#asian diaspora#chinese diaspora#race#racism#mine#mymeta#once again my tag failing me because this is a collaborative work#but! for the sake of organization#statistically average#cultural appropriation#cultural erasure#what else do i tag this im so wired
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Time to talk about the flower shirt
You read the title. Time to talk about this.
This is the infamous flower shirt Thomas put on in his store and, since the fandom is the fandom, everyone started to speculate about those flowers.
At first, I didn’t want to do it. They’re just flowers and other people already talked about them, so what could I possibly add to the conversation?
But while I was writing about Orange, I had to talk a moment about the orange flower. It was supposed to be a small parenthesis, just a couple of words about that.
But then I looked at the other flowers and what other people told/not told about them and how some didn’t find Patton’s flower... so here I am, adding my two cents to this theme.
You needed it? Probably not. Well, I’m writing it anyway.
So let’s take a closer look at those flowers and see each one in detail:
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Roman: Red rose
Should I really explain why it’s perfect for Roman? Red roses are the universal symbol of love. Basically in all cultures red roses symbolize passion, true love, romance and desire. Also, according to this website, even the shade has a meaning! In fact, the deeper the red shade is, the stronger is the passion.
And even the number of red roses has a meaning! In this case, we have only one single red rose and that "represents love at first sight, or if it’s coming from a long-term partner, they are saying “you are still the one”.”
You know what that made me think? About Thomas telling Roman “You’re my hero”. A perfect symbol that he was “still the one” for Thomas.
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Orange: Lantana camara
This is an incredibly peculiar flower.
Lantana Camara symbolizes severity and rigour. And this alone can be analyzed in all possible ways, but there are other interesting details about this plant I think it's worth mentioning.
Lantana is toxic for livestock, such as cattle, sheep, horses, dogs and goats. According to Wikipedia, previous studies suggested it could be toxic for humans too, especially the green unripe berries. However "other studies have found evidence which suggests that its fruit poses no risk to humans".
Lantana is a freaking invasive plant. In some areas, it's so predominant, to reduce biodiversity, because its presence "can significantly slow down the regeneration of forests, by preventing the growth of new trees". Also, as if this isn't enough, this plant can also produce toxic chemicals which inhibit other plant species.
Lantana has also a great adaptability, that helped it to be so invasive: it can live in a wide range of different environmental conditions, it can survive long periods without water, heck it's even resistant to fire. It's not a plant you can underestimate. Like Orange, I assume.
But Lantana isn't just an invasive plant. Lantana has always been used for medical purposes, because it showed good antimicrobial, fungicidal and insecticidal properties and its extract helps against respiratory infections and ulcers.
Also, since it doesn't have many pests or diseases, lantana became a common ornamental plant. It even attracts butterflies!
In other words: isn't that the perfect plant to symbolize the double nature of a dark side? It can be a threat, change the environment, destroy and even kill. But it can also be a medicine, something useful, something beautiful.
Whoever Orange is, Lantana camara tells us that, whithout a doubt, he’s a dark side.
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Janus: Sunflower
Do you think Janus isn't perfect enough as he is? Do you think there's not enough husband material in the snek?
Well, you’re wrong and the sunflower is here to prove it.
Sunflower symbolizes loyalty, adoration, longevity, vitality, worship. Now add this up to the sunflower’s behaviour and how it follows the sun... and you’ll get Janus. Janus literally acts like a sunflower: Thomas is his sun and everything Janus does is for him. His whole existence is centered around Thomas.
But we already knew that, because it's the same message that shone through his playlist. Everything about Janus tells us how much he adores Thomas, from his canonical behavior in the series, to his playlist, to this flower.
Oh, do you need another proof that this is flower is perfect for Janus? Some societies use sunflowers as religious symbols. Ah, some good ol' reference to religion: it’s like being in his playlist all over again.
And, of course, sunflowers are used for a variety of reasons, like cooking oils, skin care and so on. Even the flower says self care.
This man is perfect.
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Remus: Green chrysanthemum
Here's another interesting flower.
Chrysanthemum symbolizes death and it’s the typical flower used for funerals. And I thought this was its universal meaning. It was perfect for Remus just like that.
But then I found out that Europeans use chrysanthemums for funerals and to honor the dead. This flower actually has a whole lot of meanings, some completely different from this.
In China, for example, chrysanthemums are associated with wealth, prosperity and long life. Also they're symbols of new life and reincarnations, so they're the perfect gift for old people or newborns.
While in Japan chrysanthemums are symbols of power and royalty. And that's even more fitting for Remus, because he's a Duke, so he is royalty.
But chrysanthemum also symbolizes friendship - and not just "a friendship", but a meaningful one. It's a symbol of loyalty, devotion, romantic/platonic love and, in general, positive energy. It's a flower with an incredibly strong meaning, so it can't be given too lightly.
And this makes it even more perfect for Remus. It's a flower with a huge plurality of meanings, it's both associated with life and death, it's powerful and it's royalty.
Also, you can eat it. Isn't that the perfect Remus flower?
(On a side note: please notice how chrysanthemums and sunflowers are both associated with joy, loyalty and devotion. I would have never considered "joy" a common trait between Janus and Remus while loyalty and devotion... well, they both care about Thomas and his career and they both work for him despite not being accepted, so I can see why those are common traits.)
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Patton: Nemophila
Surprise surprise, this flower wasn't easy to find. I’ve never heard of it, so I had to search among endless lists of blue flowers, hoping to find one that would perfectly match the one on the shirt.
And that’s how I found nemophila.
First of all: nemophila is also known as "Baby Blue Eyes" and it's an extremely rare color to find in nature. It’s very famous in Japan, thanks to the Hitachi Seaside Park. Open this link: it’s a literal sea of blue and it’s absolutely gorgeous. Of course, it attracts people every year.
Nemophila represents prosperity, congratulations on success and victory. Not the first things you would associate with Patton, right?
Well, while I was searching more informations about this flower, I found out this website about the essence of Baby Blue Eyes and the passage I quoted down below has the exact same words you can find on that link:
With its pronounced affinity for water, the Baby Blue Eyes flower essences addresses qualities of tender sensitivity, innocence and trust associated one’s early childhood relationship to the father, or other significant masculine figures that are in some way disturbed.
Very often the father was absent, or there was a lack of support or genuine presence. The Baby Blue Eyes type attempts over time to cover this wound of vulnerability with a false “hardening,” such as emotional distancing, mistrust, cynicism or spiritual alienation. It is a flower that can be equally helpful for men or women, although it is especially needed for many men who struggle to become strong, by disowning their pain.
So nemophilia’s essence has qualities associated with childhood, to the father figure and attempts to “repress” and hide emotions.
That’s Patton. That’s him, period. The childhood-related emotions, that are linked to Patton’s longing for “a simpler time”. The mentions of a father figure - who migh be absent or showing lack of support (like, idk, suggesting you should die so your friends live?). And the attempt to “cover the vulnerability” doesn’t remind you anything? Like the Nostalgia episodes?
This flower is Patton.
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Logan: Blue petunia
I would like to say, from the bottom of my heart, a huge "FUCK YOU" to this flower, because I spent TWO DAYS searching all the blue flowers in the world and all possible variants, asking myself why this goddamn flower looked so familiar and why it was so hard to find. Blue isn't even a common color in nature, so why couldn't I find it?
I've learned more about blue flowers in these two days than in my entire life. I've searched among flowers I never saw before, like glandora diffusa, leschenaultia and omphalodes verna. I was so desperate to consider this flower a new species, with the petals of a bellflower and the corolla of a morning glory. I even found a goddamn chinese variant of the morning glory that was somehow similar but not that much and why, WHY this was so hard to find?!
And then, after two days and a lot more desperation, I remembered: my dear friend @reptilianwithscallions told me about a post they made, regarding this shirt and the flowers. Maybe they had some idea about Logan's flower?
Well, let's all thank my saviour and this post, because otherwise I would've kept searching until the end of my days.
Long story short, Logan's flower is a fucking blue petunia.
And it's a very peculiar choice, because petunias have multiple meanings, several of which can be contradictory.
In general, petunia symbolizes anger and resentment. It reminds someone that you're still angry or disappointed by their actions and you haven’t gotten over the things that caused these feelings.
Oh my, I didn't know we were back in Logan's playlist. It's basically what he kept expressing towards Thomas with his songs: that he was angry at Thomas for his decision, that he doesn't approve that Thomas hasn't "a real job" and so on. Petunia is a flower that screams passive-aggressive, so it's perfect for Logan.
But petunia's meaning deeply changes, depending on the color of the flower. And while petunia in general symbolizes anger, a blue petunia is a symbol of peacefulness, intimacy and deep trust, shared between two or more people. It's so wholesome, because the deep trust reminds me - again - of Logan's playlist and how it ended: no matter what, he and Thomas are always best friends.
Also, petunia flowers have even a secret meaning behind. Since they’re also gifted to new neighbors or to people who have just moved into a new home, they represent a perfect welcome and a way to express affection and kindness to others.
You’re lucky to be so wholesome, you tricky flower.
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Virgil: Perennial Geranium
Geranium is a confused flower.
Some of the other flowers have conflicted meanings, but not as much as this flower. These are the most common meanings I found:
Folly or Stupidity
Gentility and kind nature
Clever minds
Ingenuity
Melancholy
Perfect gift for a bride
You can gift it to someone with whom you have planned a meeting
You can gift it to someone with whom you haven't planned a meeting, just to make them feel welcomed
True Friendship
See? It’s confused.
Aside from jokes, this variety of meanings is due to its great diffusion: since geraniums grow everywhere, every culture gave them a different meaning. And sometimes these meanings depend on the situation too.
Awww, isn't it perfect for Virgil? He can be good and bad at the same time. Anxiety can be bad for Thomas and detrimental for his life, but it can also be the alarm Thomas needs. It depends on the situation.
And, just like geraniums in general symbolize positive emotions, happiness and friendship, so Virgil is in general a good guy. All he does is for Thomas' wellbeing, not against him.
And this is confirmed by the vast use of geranium's essential oil. It's one of the most popular and it has a ton of properties: anti-viral, anti-bacterial, anti-inflammatory, anti-depressant, decongestant, relaxing and so on. Just like our Virge boy can be incredibly useful under the right circumstances. (Did someone say "Flirting with social Anxiety"?)
Also, geraniums are simple, humble flowers that usually grow outside, but then we take them and make them part of our homes. Once again, it’s Virgil: he's an outsider, he's humble, he talks bad about himself - but Thomas and the others took him and made him part of the famILY anyway.
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Thomas: Cherry blossom
I searched this flower everywhere and the only one that looks like the one on the shirt is the cherry blossom. Why did Thomas make a cherry blossom with eight petals, when they all have five? I have no idea. Is this a different flower, maybe? Maybe, but I’m done: I've looked at enough flowers and I don’t have any strength left.
As you probably already know, cherry blossoms are extremely important in Japan. They're beautiful, they're everywhere and they're meaningful.
Why? Because cherry blossoms are considered the perfect metaphor for human existence. When they blossom it's a pink ocean, a party, people go to admire them - but they’re short lived, because in two weeks, the blossoms start to fall. It's just like human life: a small, rich, glorious parenthesis in the void. Something little and precious that ends soon.
But cherry blossoms also symbolize rebirth, optimism, hopes and dreams. When they bloom, it means springtime is coming and spring has always been associated with renewal.
That’s a very good choice for character Thomas. He’s basically a cherry blossom, the whole series is: something that reminds us how beautiful life is, how multi-faceted, how important. Just like Thomas' single being encompasses seven different sides of himself, so life presents a wide range of choices, of aspects, of flavours. All beautiful, all worthy of appreciation, no matter how different they can be from you and your experience.
And this becomes even more important, in relation to the passage of time and the transience of life. Because life is short and, after that, there won't be any more time to appreciate anything.
In addition to that, I would like to point out how the theme of passage of time is something we already saw in the series. And not just one time, but several. Since the first season, we have episodes all around the concept of growing up, growing old, not being a child anymore, becoming an adult. And the last Aside keeps going in this direction. It's clear this is a big theme and its connection with the cherry blossoms proves it.
But why is the flower so different on the shirt? Because Thomas wanted to mess up with us? Probably. Almost certainly. Once again, thank you Mr. Sanders for making me question everything.
The floor is (figuratively) yours now: if you have any other information, thoughts or opinions, feel free to share them.
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#sanders sides#sander sides#analysis#roman sanders#ts roman#orange side#janus sanders#ts janus#remus sanders#ts remus#patton sanders#ts patton#logan sanders#ts logan#virgil sanders#ts virgil#thomas sanders#flowers#sander side#sanders sides theory
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Hi. I'm a fan of j-hope and follow his content closely. I especially like watching his interactions with other band members. I used to think that SOPE was BTS's greatest friendship, but now I'm starting to lean towards Hobi's relationship with Taehyung.
I have the impression that V is the member who appreciates Hoseok's talent the most and has repeatedly emphasized respect for him. Plus, fetus VHOPE were sweet as hell.
Being a perceptive person, do you have any interesting thoughts on their friendship?
Disclaimer: I never write these but people get so fucking touchy and in their feelings when I bring up any negatives between the “7 soulmates”. I’m just an observer like the rest of you, so take with it what you will. Remember: my blog, my opinions. These are simply my thoughts. If you don’t like what I have to say, then feel free to block me and kindly fuck off. Thanks.
Truthfully, I don’t think SOPE are as close to each other as they used to be (2013-2019ish). I’m not saying they’re not close, I just think they’re not as close as they were before. Maybe it has to do with maturing or a difference in personalities or friendly competition or busy private lives. Who knows. I do still think they have one of the more closer relationships in the group, but these days (imo), they come across more as cool bros and less like besties for life.
As for VHOPE… it’s interesting. I’ve never talked about them in-depth so I’ll do so now. Since you brought it up I scrolled through V’s instagram and noticed Hoseok hasn’t commented directly (@ him) on any of his recent posts. And a lot of the response Hoseok has made regarding their interactions have come across as very, how do I say “let’s keep things professional” (epecially when he’s telling V not to post certain things lol). It’s either that or a response with just emojis. Not to mention, the only comments Taehyung has made on Hoseok’s instagram were 1.) him asking namjoon for a present and 2.) asking hoseok to have a drink (and this is only after he’s realized it’s a running joke between Hobi and Jin and prob wanted to be part of it too). So, to answer your question, I don’t think VHOPE are close at all. Much less “BTS’s greatest friendship”. You’re free to disagree but I’ll make a few points (keep in mind this is simply my opinionated take):
V was the one who started calling Hoseok that animal name during their early days (if you know you know). He even changed their twitter profile as a “joke” and took dehumanizing to a whole new level. What he did was beyond disrespectful to Hoseok and there’s really no excuse for that sort of behavior. The worst part is how the entire fandom (ARMYs) joined in on the joke, and started dehumanizing Hoseok as well. It took an entire public broadcast (Knowing Bros) for Hoseok to finally say he doesn’t like being called that and people should stop. A conversation I’m sure he had with V in private (hence why V stopped all the name calling). However, the damage had already been done. People can chalk it up to V’s immaturity at the time, but facts are it negatively affected Hoseok’s image and it’s a name antis still use for him till this day. It’s ironic because Taehyung didn’t like how the fans referred to him as a “4D alien” and as soon as he expressed his discomfort with that nickname, the entire fandom sent out a cease and desist letter respecting his wishes. Unfortunately, Hoseok didn’t have the same luxury. I always find it weird when the members still bring the joke up after Hoseok expressed his discomfort. It comes across as very shady and insecure on their parts. Especially considering these were the same members who all agreed that Hoseok was one of the best looking in the group, and if they could date any member it’d be him, but I digress. Nevertheless, Hoseok comes across as a very forgiving person, so I’m sure he holds no grudges about it. But that doesn’t mean V’s current attitude makes up for all his past shadiness. Which brings me to my next point.
Hoseok comes across as “uncomfortable” whenever V praises him directly. Granted Hoseok is a shy (humble) person when it comes to compliments, but for some reason when they’re coming from V, he always has this “please stop talking” response, as opposed to the others where he either usually deflects or smiles and laughs. Not to mention, Taehyung has always made it clear in the past that Yoongi is his favorite rapper in the group (and I’m being completely objective here as I always am). None of rapline’s styles have changed but Taehyung has never once been shy about “exalting” Yoongi in front of the others. So I’m not saying he’s being fake when he compliments Hoseok, it’s just that his compliments always come across as very self-centered and self-serving. If you wrack your brain I’m sure the sweetest “vhope compliment moments” have come from when it’s just the 2 of them and no other members are present. This is because V likes to make things about him. He compliments Hoseok publicly, but I doubt he keeps the same energy in private. Not that Hoseok needs his compliments, after all he’s the ace of the group. But his past “I love Hoseok Hyung” tangets have come across as very “look at me I’m such a sweet person” and less of “Everyone, look at Hoseok, he’s such an amazing person”. Lol if you still don’t get where I’m going, my point is, Taehyung is a whole clout chaser.
Taehyung likely used Hoseok to cover up his Hawaii dating scandal. This isn’t the first time either because he also pulled the same thing for his art museum dating scandal. Hoseok went on a trip to Hawaii with his family. From his sister’s vlogs (Jiwoo) we can see it was very much a 3-day (?) family trip with just them and their parents. However, some people still think it was “vhope’s secret vacation together” and I’ll tell you why those people are wrong. If vhope did take a vacation together, Hoseok would’ve posted at least one polaroid photo of them together. And even if he didn’t, then you’d think they would have at least taken a normal photo together during the daytime, and not one that looks like it was secretly taken 10 meters away in the middle of the night during a rainstorm. Moral of the story is the powers that be will do anything to divert the fact that Taehyung is provably in longterm relationship with his chaebol girlfriend. After all, how else will they keep profiting from their fake ships?
Regarding Tae’s dating scandal: Taehyung went on weverse ranting that he’d sue people for talking about his “family”. He also made a post on weverse thanking people for “not exposing photos of him while he was in a Hawaii”. He eventually deleted those posts on weverse and a few days later he then posted that Hawaii picture of him with Hoseok on his Instagram story after knetz started speculating that person he’d actually gone to Hawaii with was his girlfriend. A photo he also later deleted. Taehyung posted that “vhope” photo to draw attention from the fact that they both spent time on separate islands. He also captioned the photo “it was fun right?” and tagged Hoseok (expecting him to respond, which he did and Hoseok’s only response was that “it rained hard” nothing more nothing less). It was a vague question purposely presented by Taehyung that left fans to fill in their delusional blanks. Not to mention when they came back to Seoul, Hoseok and Taehyung both exited from different terminals at different times, which means they took different flights. Something that’s only possible when you leave from different airports on different Hawaiian islands. My best guess is Taehyung travelled from LA to Hawaii first with his girlfriend, then met up with Hoseok on the day Hoseok arrived with his family. Their interactions during the trip were short and brief because they weren’t there for each other). Notice how quickly Hybe was to deny all other rumors (like they did with JK and that actress, NJ and that girl) but didn’t say a word about the Hawaii rumors with TH and simply released a general statement about their usual basic “we take action to protect our artist” mumbo jumbo. They already stated that they’re acquaintances and it would look bad to deny it a second time, especially when it turns out that they actually are dating. Who knows whose idea it was to push the vhope agenda as a coverup everytime taehyung gets exposed. It could be a company staff or Taehyung himself. I guess taekook doesn’t offer as much subtlety.
Conclusion: I don’t think V is the member who appreciates Hoseok the most. To be honest, the people that probably appreciate him the most (these days) are Namjoon and Jin. Namjoon often brings to light just how much Hoseok helps with their music (like how he brought up the fact that Hoseok wrote JK’s iconic “lonely whale” lyrics in whalien 52, how the 3j butter dance was Hoseok’s idea, how Hoseok was the one who came up with the catchphrase “ddaeng”, and how hard Hoseok worked on their albums, just a few examples). Namjoon also often expresses how Hoseok is the “second leader” of the group and helps a lot with so much behind the scenes, etc. I also think Jin has the softest spot for Hoseok. We know how much he used to struggle with his dance and Hoseok was (is) always there to support him. These days their relationship comes across as the most comfortable in the group. So if there were to be a title for “BTS’s greatest friendship” it’d have to go to 2seok. The fact that they’re no where near shy (don’t hesitate) when interacting publicly, shows that they probably have the same playful banter in person and aren’t trying hard (putting on a facade) like some of the other members/relationships within the group. Also, no one asked, but I do think some of the past comments Jin made on Hoseok’s instagram post were a bit rude. I’m sure Jin had no malicious intent behind his words, but armys have a way of twisting narratives, so if it’s an inside joke they’re sharing it’s best they keep it inside, and not broadcast it to their millions of fans. They probably talked about it behind the scenes because their latest interactions have been more friendly and less poor comedic timing. Finally, I’d add Yoongi to the list (as someone who used to hold the title of Hoseok’s biggest hype man), but as mentioned previously, sope’s interactions as of late have been lackluster/few and far between.
My final thoughts are: I think Taehyung is needy asf and he has no sense of accountability. The worst combination tbh. He comes across as very bratty (worse than Jimin). Because unlike Jimin who can at least reflect on himself, and tends to only act a certain way in front of the cameras, it seems that Taehyung’s brat behavior stays on 24/7. Hoseok on the other hand, is very caring, selfless, and I doubt he would ever turn someone down who needs his help. I think Taehyung takes advantage of this aspect a lot and overcompensates for it when he knows the cameras are rolling (aka army is watching).
#supop thoughts#asks#bts#sope#vhope#namseok#2seok#hoseok#taehyung#yoongi#namjoon#jin#bts thoughts#bts ships
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Seek a Little Strange and Unusual
Fandom: Psychonauts
Pairing: None
Characters: Caligosto Loboto, Chloe Barge
Summary: One day at the grocery store, Loboto overhears two parents discussing their...problem child. It's a very familiar sounding conversation. He may not understand why, but he won't let history repeat itself. Chloe isn't particularly fond of her human caretakers. The dentist who smuggled her out of the store is strange...but so is she. And he, at least, understands the importance of space helmets on alien planets.
[don’t make tumblr funnyposts about headcanons guys because you WILL become attached to them]
Cucumbers, lighter fluid, toothpaste, apple sauce, quick rise yeast, mineral oil...
Almost everything! All that was left was condiments. Except...had he written ketchup, or catsup? Did it matter? Of course it mattered, they were totally different things! Weren't they? Well, they had different names.
Lobot stared between the bottle of catsup and the scribbled list, trying to read his own handwriting.
"No, no! Put it down--Chloe put that down right now."
Ooooh, drama! He loved drama. Loboto poked his head around the corner of the aisle in time to see a small child standing on their tiptoes, arms outstretched to the cereal boxes on the upper shelf. A brightly colored box of sugar pretending to be a nutritious breakfast was wrapped in a purple glow and descending, slowly.
A woman materialized next to the girl. Her face was tight with anger and she snatched the box out of the air. Shoving it back on the shelf she hissed "What did I tell you? How many times do I have to say it, Chloe! Don't do that! Especially not in public! And I told you take that stupid helmet off when we're in the store!"
The child's response was unintelligible, muffled by the space helmet they were indeed wearing. He wondered what the big deal was. It wasn't the 1940's; nobody cared if you wore a hat in public anymore. Just look at him! He was wearing his showercap and no one had said a word! They just left the aisle as soon as they saw him.
“Take it off, now!”
A man appeared and grabbed the woman's arm.
"Keep your voice down, people are going to come see what the fuss is."
The woman rounded on him, her expression one of frantic desperation.
"I can't do this anymore."
I just don’t care anymore.
"I can't deal with this, the helmet and the moving things around--!"
He’s a monster!
"I know, I know--"
Soon we’ll be free of this devil child.
"I don’t know how much longer I can put up with this! If I have to deal with one more dismantled radio, one more time trying to get her to take it off for company, one more bent spoon--"
Every! Spoon! Bent!
"I've been asking around, and Johnson knows someone who can do a procedure that’ll fix her--"
They all agree on the diagnosis and what must be done.
He felt strange. Cold and hot and angry and...sad. The child didn't seem to notice the conversation. She was trying to float the cereal box back down again. She probably didn't understand what it all meant. She was young. Very young.
Younger than he had been.
He hadn't understood either, until it was too late.
The humans were arguing again. They were always arguing these days. Arguing about such petty problems, when they could be focusing on the whole galaxy around them. She ignored them. It wasn't like they listened to her anyway. How many times had she explained to the woman why she needed to wear the helmet whenever she left the hermetic seal of her room? It never mattered.
The box of Chocolate Frosted Sugar Bombs landed gently in her hands. Excellent. She would slide it into the cart under the frozen peas. By the time they got to the cash register, the woman would be bound by social convention to make the purchase, or risk making a scene in front of the cashier.
Chloe still hadn't figured out what making a scene meant. The term was definitely in regards to public behavior, but was applied to anything from yelling in public to silent refusal to remove her helmet. Human rules were so strange and arbitrary.
The boxes in front of her rustled. Chloe tilted her head to one side. Odd. Sometimes things around her moved on their own, but usually she got that strange tingle in the back of her head when they did. She wasn't feeling it now.
The boxes of cereal parted, excess tumbling off the ends of the shelves. Two small lights gleamed in the newly made gap. One red, one green.
A metal claw shot out, grabbed Chloe by the shirt, and hauled her through.
She had half been expecting to be pulled into another dimension, but instead she was just in the next aisle. There was no time to feel disappointed before she was dumped unceremoniously in a grocery cart. Someone loomed over her, but Chloe only got the impression of blue skin and flowers before the stranger scooped up half a shelf's worth of bags of macaroni and dumped them on top of her.
It didn't hurt. She could breathe fine with her helmet protecting her face--see, she wanted to say, I told you I needed it--but she couldn't move very much. The cart rattled and bumped, one wheel squeaking obnoxiously. They paused briefly, and Chloe considered shouting for help, but didn't. She wanted to see where this was going.
So she stayed quiet and still, holding the box of cereal to her chest as a cheerful voice cried "No need to do your beeping scans! I know what I bought! Keep the change!"
Then they were off again. The sounds around her changed as they left the store and rattle bumped their way through the parking lot. She heard a trunk open up, and decided now was a good time to figure out what was going on. She had no interest in riding with the groceries.
Chloe made the purple glow around her hands and pushed until the groceries around her lifted enough for her to move. She popped out from beneath the macaroni like a beach ball being released underwater.
The stranger was. Strange. Very tall. The lights Chloe had seen were his eyes--or rather, small tubes where his eyes should be. They twitched and turned independently of each other. He was smiling at her, and his smile seemed to stretch much, much further than most human smiles.
He was wearing a labcoat and a shower cap.
"Hello!" he said. "I'm going to kidnap you and raise you as my own so your parents can't stick an icepick in your brain to take away your psychic powers!" He tapped his chin, brow furrowing. One of his arms was made of metal, and ended in three claws. "Although I already did that first part, so...I have kidnapped you and am going to raise you as my own so that your parents can't stick an icepick in your brain to take away your psychic powers!"
Chloe considered this with some alarm. She didn't know what an icepick was, but she was sure she didn't want anything stuck in her brain. Psychic powers? Ah. That would explain the purple glow. Her caretakers had been very frustrated by it. But could she believe that they would stick things in her brain just so they could be less frustrated?
Yes. She could believe.
Her chest hurt. The macaroni was heavier than she first thought.
"Will you let me wear my helmet?" she asked.
"Of course!" He patted his showercap. "Headwear is a very important personal choice!
Chloe thought some more.
"This is acceptable," she said, and lifted her arms. The stranger stared at her. Neither of them moved for several seconds.
"What are you doing."
"You need to lift me up."
The stranger stuck his hands under her armpits and did so, holding his arms fully extended out in front of him. She dangled in the air, up, up, so high up, higher than she'd ever managed on a swing, and without the heavy weight of rope and swing seat to remind her she was pinned to this mudball planet. She felt weightless, floating, a dizzyingly wonderful feeling.
They stayed like that for several moments.
"Is this what parenting is?" the stranger asked. "It's a lot easier than they made it sound."
Chloe was so high up, her vision extended over the sea of cars, and she spotted her caretakers--former caretakers--rushing out of the grocery store, looking around wildly.
"Put me down," she said. She would have liked to stay up there for longer. For hours. Maybe she could get him to do it again later. The man used to do it all the time, before the arguing started. The stranger set her feet on the pavement, and began to toss the cart's contents into the trunk without any care for fragility. He did not seem particularly rushed or concerned, for all that he said he was kidnapping her. And wasn't kidnapping illegal?
The car was nothing like the sleek blue sedan her parents drove. The man washed it obsessively, and acted as if you had removed an organ if you so much as borrowed a single sparkplug, even if the project was important.
Not only did this car look as if it hadn't been washed, ever, it also looked like it might dissolve if you tried. It was mostly rust held together by duct tape. The car was decorated in strange patterns picked out by objects hot glued to the sides: rubber ducks, dice, plastic flowers, and many, many teeth. From the looks of it, mostly Odocoileus virginianus and Procyon lotor, although she had to wonder about some of the molars.
"Chloe!" someone shouted. "Chloe, where are you!"
Chloe opened the door of the car and climbed inside. There was a moldy grey blanket on the car seat. She unfolded it and draped it over herself. It smelled like seaweed and toothpaste. She tried to look as much like a non-child lump as she could.
The trunk closed. Through the thin blanket she saw the shadow of the stranger--her new caretaker--lean over her. He wound all three seatbelts across her, pinning her to the seat.
"Safety first!" he said.
The car's engine whined and groaned and the calls got closer. They wouldn't be able to see her under the blanket. She was hidden. It was safe.
All the same, she felt a rush of relief when the engine finally growled to life. The car shot backwards and then came to an abrupt halt with a crash and the tinkle of glass. The seatbelts held her so fast Chloe didn't even move.
"Whoopsie!" the man said. The car lurched forwards and came to another abrupt halt with another crash. "Sorry!" Forward. Smash. "Oopsie daisy!" Back. Crash. "Almost got it!"
This time when the car sped forward, it did not stop, although Chloe did hear a scream and a bump as they turned a sharp corner.
"There we go!"
Chloe waited a few more minutes before working her arms free and pulling the blanket down from over her helmet. The car was zipping down the road, swerving violently between the other cars. In the space of three minutes they shot through two red lights. Her new caretaker was humming an offkey ditty to himself, as if he was taking a casual stroll through the park.
"Who are you?" Chloe asked.
"I am Dr Calligosto Loboto! The greatest dentist in the world!" He threw out an arm dramatically and his claws punctured the roof of the car. She could see many similar holes clustered in the same area.
"My name is Chloe. I hail from the planet Cygnus A."
"Ooooh, you're an alien! That explains the helmet! You better keep that thing on, I don't want you suffocating in our atmosphere!"
Chloe couldn't name the feeling in her chest, except that it was a good one.
"That's what I kept telling them! Just because I can breathe your air doesn't mean it doesn't have a detrimental effect on my lungs!"
"Of course!" the doctor said, genuinely annoyed. "That's Alien 101! Boy, your parents are weird."
"They aren't my parents," Chloe said, firmly. "They're my human caretakers. They were looking after me while I'm on the planet. Someday my real parents will return for me, and take me back to the home planet."
"Makes sense to me! I wonder if that makes this less of a felony."
#caligosto loboto#psychonauts#chloe barge#i have...no excuse#i can't decide if i want to make like a whole thing out of it so here you go for now#pre-canon fic
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I heard there were rumors about Naruto being developed into seinen after Shippuden. Wouldn't that have been wonderful? I think it was such a wasted opportunity for another amazing experience. We wouldn't have any child marriages, or that recycled bs Boruto. And a challenge for Kishimoto. Although I am not sure about that last one, he kind of lost the plot towards the end there.
But even so, what a wasted opportunity.
What's your take? What could have been the implications of that?
Am just going to take this ask as an heartful rant!!!!!! 😊😊😊😊
Just because of this ask, I decided to dig deeper into his past interviews and found things that even confirmed my opinions even stronger.
Damn you!!!! Kishimoto!!!!
Thanks to you @sneezemonster15 🤩🤩🤩. LOL. Because When your speculation becomes true, you will experience some satisfaction which is immeasurable.
[[Anything I am going to cite from an old interview, after this line of the post is something I got to knew only today. Which means I never knew about these interviews before. Probably SNS shippers knew about these long back but to me it’s a new thing.]]
I heard there were rumors about Naruto being developed into seinen after Shippuden. Wouldn't that have been wonderful?
I never heard of such development and even if they do, they already did a lot of damage in the name of Boruto. And I don't think they can tell anymore story after Shippuden in a convincing way.
For me, Shippuden is in and of itself looks like a big seinen based Manga because I believe there were certain themes which were told in part 2 that are simply not suitable for a 12 year old to comprehend. Even I was overwhelmed by such plots because it really questioned my world view.
I mean, what can a 12 year old understand about Hatred or World peace which Nagato planned to implement or Itachi's pain? Yeah, there may be very few who could understand but majority don’t and hence we could see some part of fandom who still thinks ‘Sasuke should have left alone and made to start a new Village as a Revolution, or he should’ve destroyed Konoha to dust’. Any mature audience who consumed various media and have a broad world view would never spout such nonsense. Because the real world wouldn't work that way.
he kind of lost the plot towards the end there.
He didn’t actually. I believe he was made to create that Kaguya plot as a thread to continue Borutoverse. It may not be his idea. I am just speculating. Because Kishi is a damn genius in dropping threads much earlier in the story.
Example, Uchiha Madara.
When Sasuke and Naruto battled in VoTE1, I was wondering about the statues as to who might they be?. Then Kakashi slightly hinted us that the statues represents the men who created Konoha, but they were fighting until the very end for some reason. Similar to how Naruto and Sasuke fought there. And when Madara’s name was dropped for the first time when Sasuke suppressed Kurama, it just got only better.
So, I think Kaguya was a plot which was created right when Naruto was decided to pair up with Hinata and have a baby who will lead the Next Generation. When the series was going on and on about Sharingan, all of a sudden it took a U-Turn towards Byakugan. I was like, ‘Who the fuck cares about Byakugan anyway?’
Then it all made sense after looking at the abomination called ‘Boruto’, where all the Aliens were seen having Byakugan. So, It feels like he lost the plot. But I really think he was forced to.
So far, whatever I wrote till now was my observation.
That Damn Kishimoto gave an interview long back which proved my hunch right.
So, You see, he was never interested in a sequel series to happen. He was just forced to.
Do you know what was the real ending he aimed for?
In many of my posts, I wrote about how SNS was a carefully constructed bond which Kishimoto paid a lot of attention to. I mean, there’s no way we can call the chapter 698 as a Retconned one. Every clues and hints were already there.
It seems that the bastard confessed about this 15 years ago, in 2006 Shonen Jump Interview and again in 2015 NYCC comic con.
He didn’t talk about Ships and shits in any of these interviews. He already planned the ending long back when he finished Part 1. The ending with Naruto and Sasuke doing Reconciliation Seal with Hashirama and Madara statues by visualizing everything into details and that too in freaking 2006.
[[Click the picture to see the full view]]
Reconciliation of Naruto and Sasuke was something Kishi planned long back after finishing part 1. He even visualized all the panels in detail and that's the ending he was striving towards.
It seems, he never planned about pairings and stuffs ahead as many shippers would like to claim. I am not saying he planned SNS as the endgame couple either. But I honestly think, Kishi wished for an ending similar to Chapter 699. Like without any pairing trash, finishing off with Naruto and Sasuke sharing their dreams and hopes together.
And this is what I’ve been screaming in all my posts... That I speculate, I guess, I believe and so many similar words... that Kishi always wanted to finish with Chapter 699 and Chapter 700 feels like an afterthought.
But anyways, with Studio persuaded him into pair up his Main Characters, he was asked to write Boruto Script for one last time and it seems, that’s the only movie where he wrote the entire screenplay from A to Z. He said that Boruto movie is the ‘Pinnacle of his career’. Does it mean, ‘The Last’ movie was not his pinnacle, eh???
And what do I always scream about Boruto series in every posts?
That I feel like Naruto and Sasuke seems to Babysit Boruto like a parent.
And that’s what he wanted to finish as the last chapter of Naruto.
I mean throughout the movie, there were no trace of Hinata and Sakura playing any major role in their Child’s life, instead Sasuke is seen talking fondly about Naruto to his Son, I mean Naruto’s Son. So, If he envision drawing 2 guys taking care of a child as the last chapter, then what was he trying to say?
This Kishimoto is just too sinister!!!
And it seems, he dissed ‘The Last’ movie subtly in his own words. Like almost he claims he had no part in that movie. Well, I always had my doubt regarding that movie. Never expected Kishi would say this.
Couple of days ago, I made a post about, how Kishi never gave 2 fucks about Sakura from the beginning. I analyzed that post based on my observation by carefully reading through panels in the initial chapters and his motivations to draw the panel in a certain way. That gave me an idea of what Kishi’s style of designing a character. I never knew about this Interview thing, when I wrote that post.
It seems, in an Interview, he pretty much confirmed my view about him.
Kishi’s assistant was posed with a question, ‘How every character, no matter how bad they are, gets redeemed in some way?’
To which he answered, ‘Before even making a first appearance, Kishi will lay out how he wants the character to be, what it’s personality traits are, what was it about to do.’
So, Kishi really never planned to make Sakura redeemable. Her fate was sealed when she unveiled her grand dream in chapter 4 before her teammates.
What I would like to conclude is,
Kishi developing anything after Shippuden will not have his full heart. So, that development based on Seinen may not be true.
Kishi planned Chapter 698 long back when he completed Part 1. He even visualized every panels about how it is going to be. So, probably Chapter 699 is where Kishi intended to end the series. Hence, the abomination you were made to see in Boruto is not his idea.
He never planned about pairings unless he was asked to. Hinata was the popular one and he just went with it. It’s not like he always intended for Naruto to end up with Hinata.
When he was asked to write a story about Boruto, he envisioned Boruto movie as the final chapter of Naruto series, if only he had the opportunity to draw this as a manga. In this movie, Naruto became an Hokage, Sasuke is a Shadow Hokage, Naruto’s son was adopted by Sasuke. Hinata and Sakura were the bench warmers.
It seems to me that Kishi somehow wants to place Naruto and Sasuke as the face of this series towards the end. He knew that he can't make them as an official couple and when things didn't go as he planned he made them into an unofficial couple who takes cares of a boy with all the care.
Geez!!! I wish I were wrong😏😏😏😏. But all these interviews proves that I was right about many things without even realizing it was there.
#ask#naruto analysis#naruto#sasuke#anti sakura#anti hinata#antisakura#antihinata#anti boruto#sns#sasunaru#sasunarusasu
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Five years ago, the women on this site who treated me like trash over loving Labyrinth and shipping Jareth/Sarah were almost always obliviously consuming Radfem propaganda, or were out and out Radfems/Terfs themselves.
They were the types of people who casually threw the word “pedophile” around against grown women who shipped an adult Sarah with Jareth, aka literally one of the most popular ships for women in fandom for 30 years.
Pretty much invariably, these women had serious sex-negative anxieties, which included a severe paranoia about any and all kink and fetish, and porn in general. I saw a lot of shocking, fear-mongering propaganda surrounding sexual expression. Pretty much invariably, their method of approach involved immediate personal shock-value attacks on anyone they perceived to be “bad.”
Today, you can look at the way some people react to other popular so-called “problematic” ships and recognize the same toxic, fear-mongering rhetoric coming from women who consider themselves regular, trans-inclusive feminists. Sometimes it even manifests in the words of very well-meaning people (including myself here), who feel the need to talk about specific issues that pertain to their own experiences of trauma and oppression.
The people who shit on Labyrinth often seem to not really be able to comprehend that the Goblin King, like the film itself, is canonically a representation of a teen girl’s psyche, a soup of fears and anxieties and desires and dreams. He’s not a literal human adult preying on a literal child, and to read the film that way seriously undermines the entire point of the film.
When I (and people of many fandoms) say “This is fiction, calm down,” I’m not just saying it’s not real so it cant hurt you and you can’t criticize me. I’m trying to call attention to what fiction actually is - artistic representations of feelings and experiences. The Goblin King is Sarah’s fiction. Therefore, he can be anything she or any woman who identifies with her wants him to be, including her lover when she’s grown and ready for such a thing.
I once took an alarming dive into Beetlejuice fandom to see what content was there (the cartoon was a favorite when I was little). Chillingly, what you’ll find is an extremely wounded fanbase, with a sharp divide between the older women who had long been shipping BJ/Lydia because of their love for the cartoon series (and whom were previously the vast majority of the Beetlejuice fandom), and a massive amount of young people riding the wave of the musical fad who had decided that the entire old school Beetlejuice fandom was populated by literal pedophiles.
I saw death threats. Suicide baiting. Constant, constant toxic discourse. It did not matter how the BJ/Lydia fandom dealt with any particular issues that would exist in their ship, in fact I’m certain that the people abusing them cared very little to even consider if they were trying to handle it at all. The only thing that mattered was that they were disgusting subhuman scum asking for abuse. If you have at any time reblogged recent Beetlejuice fan art or content from fans of the musical, you have more than likely been engaging positively with the content of someone participating in toxic fandom behavior.
Nobody is really sticking up for them, either, as far as I saw. It’s really hard to imagine how painful it must be to have such a large group of people explode into into your relatively private fandom space to tell you that you are evil, vile, and deserve constant abuse, and also you are no longer allowed into the fandom space to engage in it’s content. But I think there’s something very alarming indeed about this happening specifically to the BJ fandom, and I’ll explain why.
The pop-culture characterization of Beetlejuice, which is heavily influenced by the cartoon series to be clear, has always in my mind been a vaguely ageless being who matches with the psychological maturity of whatever age Lydia is supposed to be. He’s more or less like an imaginary friend, a manifestation of Lydia’s psyche. In fact, I would argue that i think most of us who grew up with the cartoon or it’s subsequent merchandizing before the musical ever existed probably internalized the idea as BJ and Lydia as this ageless, salt-and-pepper-shaker couple beloved by the goth community, similar to Gomez and Morticia. In each version of canon he may be a creepy ghost in the literal sense, but any adult who is capable of identifying literary tropes (even just subconciously) would read cartoon!BJ as an artistic representation of a socially awkward outcast girl’s inner world. Lydia’s darker dispositions and interests, which alienate her from most others, are freely accepted and embraced by her spooky magical friend. BJ/Lydia in the cartoon were depicted as best friends, but to my memory there was always an underlying sense that they had secret feelings for each other, which I identified easily even as a small child. In fact, their dynamic and behavior perfectly reflected the psychological development of the show’s target demographic. They are best friends who get into adventures and learning experiences together, who have delicate feelings for each other but lack any true adult romantic/sexual understanding to acknowledge those feelings, let alone pursue them.
Though I haven’t seen the Musical yet, I’ve read the wiki and I would argue that it embodies this exact same concept even more so for it’s own version of the characters, in that Beetlejuice specifically exists to help Lydia process her mother’s death.
This is not a complicated thing to recognize and comprehend whatsoever. In fact, it looks downright blatant. It’s also a clear indicator of what BJ/Lydia means to the women who have long loved it. It was a story about a spooky wierd girl being loved and accepted and understood for who she was, and it gave them a sense of solidarity. It makes perfect sense why those women would stick with those characters, and create a safe little space for themselves to and imagine their beloved characters growing and having adult lives and experiencing adult drama, in just the same ways that the women of the Labyrinth fandom do. That’s all these women were doing. And now, they can’t do it without facing intense verbal violence. That safe space is poisoned now.
Having grown up with the cartoon as one of my favorites and been around goth subculture stuff for decades, I was actually shocked and squicked at the original Beetlejuice film’s narrative once I actually saw it, because it was extremely divorced from what these two characters had evolved into for goth subculture and what they meant to me. It’s not telling the same story, and is in fact about the Maitland's specifically. In pretty much exactly the same way two different versions of Little Red Riding Hood can be extremely different from each other, the film is a different animal. While I imagine that the film version has been at the heart of a lot of this confused fear-mongering around all other versions of the characters, I would no more judge different adaptations of these characters any more than I would condemn a version of Little Red in which Red and the Wolf are best friends or lovers just because the very first iteration of LRRH was about protecting yourself from predators.
I would even argue that the people who have engaged in Anti-shipper behavior over BJ/Lydia are in intense denial over the fact that BJ being interested in Lydia, either as blatant predatory behavior a la the film or on a peer level as in the cartoon (and musical?) is an inextricable part of canon. Beetlejuice was always attracted to Lydia, and it was not always cute or amusing. Beetlejuice was not always a beloved buddy character, an in fact was originally written as a gross scumbag. That’s just what he was. Even people engaging with him now by writing OC girlfriends for him (as stand-ins for the salt-and-pepper-shaker space Lydia used to take up, because obviously that was part of the core fun of the characters), or just loving him as a character, are erasing parts of his character’s history in order to do so. They are actively refusing to be held responsible for being fans of new version of him despite the fact that he engaged in overt predatory behavior in the original film. In fact, I would venture to say that they are actively erasing the fact that Musical Beetliejuice tried to marry a teenager and as far as I’m aware, seemed to like the idea (because he’s probably a fucking figment of her imagination but go off I guess). The only reason they can have a version of this character who could be perceived as “buddy” material is because...the cartoon had an impact on our pop cultural perception of what the character and his dynamic with Lydia is.
We can have a version of the Big Bad Wolf who’s a creepy monster. We can have a version who’s sweet and lovable. We can have a version that lives in the middle. We can have a version who’s a hybrid between Red and the Wolf (a la Ruby in OUAT). All of these things can exist in the same world, and can even be loved for different reasons by the same people.
I’ve been using Beetlejuice as an example here because it’s kind of perfect for my overall point regarding the toxic ideologies in fandom right now across many different spaces, including ones for progressive and queer media, and how much so many people don’t recognize how deeply they’ve been radicalized into literalist and sex-negative radfem rhetoric, to the point where we aren’t allowed to have difficult, messy explorations of imperfect, flawed humans, and that art is never going to be 100% pure and without flaw in it’s ability to convey what it wants to convey.
This includes the rhetoric I’ve seen across the board, from She-Ra to A:TLA to Star Wars to Lovecraft Country. We don’t talk about the inherent malleable, subjective, or charmingly imperfect nature of fiction any more. Transformation and reclamation are myths in this space. Everything is in rigid categories. It is seemingly very difficult for some of these people to engage with anything that is not able to be clearly labeled as one thing or another (see the inherent transphobic and biphobic elements of the most intense rhetoric). They destroy anything they cannot filter through their ideology. When women act in a way that breaks from their narrative of womanhood (like...not having a vagina), then those women must be condemned instead of understood. Anything that challenges them or makes them uncomfortable is a mortal sin. There is an extraordinary level of both hypocrisy and repressive denial that is underlying the behavior I’m seeing now. Much like toxic Christian conservatism, these people often are discovered engaging in the same behaviors and interests that they condemn behind closed doors (or just out of sheer cognitive dissonance). As an example, one of the people who talked shit to me about Labyrinth was a huge fan of Kill La Kill, which to my knowledge was an anime about a teenage girl in like, superpowered lingere (hence why I stayed the fuck away from that shit myself). Indeed, they even allow themselves plenty of leeway for behavior far worse than they condemn others for, and create support systems for the worst of their own abusers.
Quite frankly, I’m tired. Instead of talking about theoretical problematic shit, we need to start talking about quantifiable harm. Because as far as I can tell, the most real, immediate, and quantifiable harm done because of anybody’s favorite ships or pieces of media seems to consistently be the kind that’s done to the people who experience verbal violence and abuse and manipulation and suicide baiting and death threats from the people who have a problem.
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FAN THEORY THURSDAY – Why Did Metroman Retire?
Happy Almost-Friday, everyone! And even though Minion threatens to smother everything he cooks in old Limburger cheese each time I say it: SPOILER WARNING!
Yes, I know, it’s three a.m. and it’s technically Friday, but I’m still calling this Thursday night, and there’s nothing you can do about it.
Okay, let’s be honest, Metroman is a character who seems, on the surface, to require little explanation in the film Megamind. He’s only present in the beginning and end, and we spend half the movie believing he’s dead, and we learn that Metroman has done something almost unheard of among superheroes: he’s chosen to retire. The question is: why? There is a tendency to think that he's simply a spoiled rich boy who, (in his social life, at least,) does what he wants without regard for others, but is that really fair? Or could there be other possible reasons? Well, let’s take a look at a few fan theories that may explain why he chose to abandon heroism for a music career.
Metroman Didn’t Want to Be a Hero
Although he’s clearly based on—and perhaps even poking a little fun at—the Man of Steel, Metroman was no Superman. (I mean, okay, he was technically a super-man, since he had strength, speed, and powers far beyond what a human would possess.) Except, here’s the thing: he’s not a carbon copy of the Man of Steel; Metroman and Superman have completely different lives and personalities. This remains true despite the fact that they share a similar origin—that of being aliens from a dead planet—and identical powers—including laser-vision and flight. Even their code names are comparable. However, if we look deeper, it becomes obvious that Metroman and Superman are two very different characters.
Superman is all about being an upstanding hero. Although he can be annoyingly persnickety, and sometimes displays nearly oppressively unyielding strictures about right and wrong, one thing you can say about the Man of Steel is that he’s generally integral. He is exactly what his public image portrays him to be: a Good Guy through and through. The same isn’t true of Metroman, and in some ways that makes him a more complex and interesting character.
The childhoods of the two heroes are extremely different. As I’ve mentioned in Why Was Megamind Raised in Prison, when a boy, Metroman was a bully, not only making young Megamind an outsider and the object of everything from teasing to physical attacks, but also inspiring other students to do the same. Superman, on the other hand, far from being a bully was bullied by Pete Ross. Rather than using his powers against others, he was too responsible and good-hearted to use them even against Pete Ross. Metroman is adopted by super-wealthy parents, and is essentially a trust-fund baby, while Superman was adopted by a farm family. He grows up with a good work ethic and hometown values. Indeed, this economic discrepancy continues into adulthood. As far as we can tell, Metroman doesn’t need to work and has no job outside being a superhero. Superman, conversely, has to earn a living as a journalist. Finally, in the majority of comics, Superman avoids most public appearances, unless he feels they serve some beneficial social purpose. Indeed, he goes to great lengths to keep his identity a secret and avoid the public eye as much as possible. The first time we see Metroman in the film, however, he is basking in a crowd’s adoration at the dedication of a museum in his honor. Indeed, in the original script, then called Mastermind, Metroman’s real identity seems to be widely known. (In case you’re wondering, this is where the name Wayne Smith, commonly used in the fandom, originates from.) So, we see that these character are actually very different: one is a hero strictly for the greater good, and the other, while he certainly does a lot of good things, is also in it for the fame.
This may seem like I’m being harsh toward poor Wayne Smith, but his flaws do not, in fact, make him a bad person. The issue is that we’re comparing him to Superman who, while still certainly imperfect, is intended to be a better-than-average person in every way, including moral. Make no mistake, Metro City’s former hero isn’t any sort of villain; what he is is normal. If we’re honest, most of us would be pleased by wide-spread accolades and honors. He reacts to positive fame the same way nearly anyone would because, at his heart, he’s really just a typical guy. That is the material point: Wayne Smith really only wants to be an average citizen—a music star, perhaps, but still a relatively ordinary person. In that way, he and Megamind are alike: they both desire, more than nearly anything else, to be normal. The key difference is that Megamind’s sincere and driving concern for his city also makes him ideal for becoming a hero. (You can learn more about this particular fan theory in The Warden and in Megamind and Identity.)
So, why did Wayne Smith become a Defender in the first place, then? Again, I’ve briefly touched on this in previous posts, but it appears likely that Metroman was pushed into heroism just as much as Megamind was pushed into supervillainy. Because he was a bully with superpowers, it’s likely that adults around him realized something had to be done about Wayne. Otherwise he was a danger. So, they constructed an environment—the Li’l Gifted School—where he could be conditioned to seek the praise of others as well as to fight Megamind, who had been singled out as his future nemesis. (In fact, that conditioning is probably why he opted for a career that would put him on stage, aside from a probable love of music.)
Because the path chosen for Megamind involved more hardships and pain, it’s easy to forget that Metroman was in essentially the exact same plight. However, the fact remains that these were both children, and they were both being coerced into perceived destinies they didn’t want. Neither of them were given a choice and, in the end, both of them cast off the expectations pressed upon them to become the people they really wanted to be. The difference is that, because of our natural biases, Megamind’s rise to Defender of Metro City seems more noteworthy than Metroman’s step into Mr. Average Joe. The truth, however, is that both characters were basically doing the same thing: being true to themselves.
Metroman May Have Had Health Concerns
We know Megamind and Metroman are close to the same age—although the latter appears to be about a year rather than days old when he lands on Earth—but what that age is is open to supposition. We know, however, that they are almost certainly in their thirties, probably in their mid- to late-thirties. (Take a look at How Old is Megamind for more information about that.) However, we can see that Wayne is already going gray around the temples. Of course, some people’s genetics simply cause them to go gray earlier, and that’s certainly a possibility, but one fan theory suggest there may be more going on. The idea has been put forward that Wayne’s super-speed may be having an adverse effect on him, forcing his body to work overtime to keep up. The resulting physical stress could be making him age prematurely.
That’s not the only factor to consider. As hard as heroism may have been on his body, the effects on Metroman’s mind would have been even greater. Before the events in the movie, Metro City’s authorities—and, indeed, all its citizens—became too reliant upon their superhuman hero, and as a result that hero was run ragged. That isn’t a mere hypothesis. A scene that was storyboarded but never included in the final film makes Metroman’s plight perfectly clear. We see him being called from one end of the city to the other for everything from a massive explosion to an old lady needing help opening a jar. Keep in mind that, when hearing a cry for assistance, the hero would likely be unable to tell who truly needed him urgently and who was simply making unnecessary demands, thus he would have to rush to every call he heard. Even the city’s law enforcement seems to take him for granted, refusing to take criminals he just hand-delivered to jail because they’re on lunch break. The cumulative effect is that Metroman looks nearly frantic with stress.
youtube
This is important because, aside from the obvious mental and emotional concerns, this sort of stress accelerates aging as well. According to an article in the Huffington Post, when glycation and telomere shortening, as well as the over-oxidation, are caused by enduring heightened stress for prolonged periods of time, it can result not only in graying hair and premature wrinkles, but heart trouble as well. Even the memory can be affected, as one study by the University of Wisconsin found that stress can age a person’s brain up to four years faster than normal, and contribute to cognitive problems later in life. (The study was part of a presentation—you have no idea how badly I wanted to write that word in all-caps—and is thus currently unpublished, but information about it can be found in an article from Over Sixty.)
Metroman Retired for the Good of Everybody
As you can see, in a strange way, having a super-powered Defender was actually crippling Metro City. In fact, it may be truly damaging to the local infrastructure and official organizations. Youtuber Olaf Scholtens, in his video Megamind: Power and Identity, uses the metaphor of an airplane manufacturer to explain what’s going on. (If you’ve read my own post Megamind and Identity, you’ve seen this before.) Engineers and factories put a lot of effort and expense into making certain aircraft are as safe as possible, but what would happen if they felt they could confidently assume a superhero would simply catch any plane that crashed, saving everyone on board? Safety standards would probably become far more lax, and people might be in far more danger as a result. Given the way that nearly everyone in Metro City seems to assume Metroman will always save the day, it’s possible that, within the urban area, the same thing could be happening with things like building code enforcement, large construction projects, and even public safety measures. Bridges might not be properly built, fire hazards might not be addressed, and, given the blasé attitudes of the cops in the storyboard, law enforcement officers might not even be bothering to keep an eye on things. By retiring, Metroman forced the city to become more self-sufficient again.
That, however, may not have been the only problem Metroman was trying to solve. Remember the whole discussion about the former Defender’s school boy bullying and the apparent conspiracy to turn one boy into a hero and the other into a supervillain? It’s possible Wayne may have felt remorse for the former and found out about the latter. Having battled Megamind so much in the past, he also may have realized that the blue man never actually hurt anyone, and in fact went out of his way to stage their confrontations in abandoned places. (Again, you can read more about that in both Megamind and Identity and The Warden.) It may be that Metroman real “brilliant plan” wasn’t simply to fake his death, but in doing so to prod Megamind into becoming a hero and thus accepted by society.
There is an alternative theory, put forward in a Reddit post, that Megamind and Metroman’s parents may have known one another, and may have sent both children to Earth with the intention of them becoming a dynamic duo, fighting evil together with Megamind as the brains and Metroman as the brawn. This could have been what Megamind’s father meant when he told his son: “You are destined for greatness.” While there is very little support for this in the movie, it would explain why, in the vast cosmos, both of the young survivors were sent not only to the same planet, but even to the same city.
Whatever the reason may have been, one thing is certain: there certainly is some evidence that Metroman intended his one-time nemesis to become a hero. One of his lines, after Roxanne and Megamind discover he’s still alive, supports this. You know the one. “If there’s bad, good will rise up against it. It’s taken me a long time to find my calling; now it’s time you find yours.” Then, of course, there is another line, when Music Man is watching his former enemy take the role of Defender of Metro City: “way to go, Little Buddy. I knew you had it in you.”
If Metroman really did purposefully help Megamind step into heroism, that could also explain why he didn’t stop Megamind from taking over the city—perhaps he trusted the blue man not to harm anyone and to eventually come to his senses—as well as why he refuses to overtly help defeat Titan. He does, however, clearly subtly assist Megamind, as the latter almost certainly went back to Wayne’s hideout to scan his appearance and voice into the holowatch. All of this together makes it seem quite plausible that Metroman not only wanted to retire, but also wanted the blue man to take his place.
Megamind and Metroman by White-Night-56 on Deviant Art
Maybe this means that, now that Megamind is the Defender of Metro City, he and Music Man occasionally get together to commiserate over the more difficult aspects of being a superhero and joke about the old days.
It’s also quite possible that all of these fan theories could be true. The film Megamind is, among other things, surprisingly subtle, complex, and subversive for an animated movie. Every time I dive deep into some aspect or other of the plot, I am once again impressed by the amount of thought and detail that went into this work. No wonder Megamind—and its characters—have so many dedicated fans.
#Megamind#Megamind movie#Metro Man#Metroman#Wayne Smith#Megamind fan theory#Megamind fan theories#DreamWorks#hero#Defender#Metro City#fan theory#fan theories#Fan Theory Thursday#Megamind fandom#Youtube#megamind
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Hi! Sorry for opening old wounds, but I found your blog by scrolling through the animorphs tag (specifically David ones)
I 100% agree on the David take, the David trilogy was actually my introduction to the animorphs series, and I was pretty young when I first read it, like I think, mm like 9 or 10, but I remember feeling off about it, kind of uncomfortable, but was never able to fully process of what’s happening, until I was 17 and decided to re-read the trilogy again and was like oh NO
Weirdly enough, when I read the animorphs (which I have never full access to, only reading 10 books out of 50+ books, so I never read or learned how bad the books can get, protrayal wise until I read your other animorphs post deep diving it) David was my favourite character, and would get miffed if someone tried to change my opinion
I don’t think people understand the circumstances David was going through?? Like the kid just saw his family got kidnapped because he found a blue box and decided “hey I need cash” and tried to sell it, suddenly five kids his age bust in, tell him there’s nothing they can do to help his family, threatened him, made a vote right in front of him (I think in front of him) being like “should’ve part of us, or should we allow him to be enslaved with his parents :/“ which is,,,, and then kidnapping him, and force to sleep in a barn. if I went through that, I sure as hell wouldn’t even try to be nice like David, I would’ve full stop fought them on the spot. And their 13?? What 13 year old aren’t asshole, I was an absolute menace when I was 13, so it’s weird to see people be like “David was such an asshole, I hate him :/“ yeah, the boy is in that asshole age
No old wounds reopened, no old wounds in the first place, the books are bad and the fandom's willfully stupid (among other things). I've simply just been reading better books after forcing myself to reread those books.
David is a really interesting character. And before the writers decided to hit him with the 'evil for the sake of being evil' stick at the end of that trilogy he was really smart and self sufficient and COMPETENT. Like, the Animorphs have technically so much more experience but my dude just rolled up like 'Nah' and took out half the team.
And like, the biggest thing that the probably solidified the 'these bitches need to die' to David was likely the fact that the Animorphs demonstrated that they absolutely could track down and capture his parents but they do this explicitly as a fucking threat. They go out of their way to prove to David that:
a) The Animorphs don't give a shit about rescuing any of the people that the yeerks are enslaving (they liberate all of one woman in like the first book. And its not Karen, the Yeerk Peace Movement liberated Karen. If nothing else these tree books really just solidified the fact that Jake was never actually going to rescue Tom, he didn't really care about his brother.) so they never were gonna help him free his parents.
b) That they probably will kill his parents at some point either b/c they don't give a shit about the lives of the captives or to keep him in line/keep him working for them whether he wants to or not (which, is definitely extortion and possibly also slavery)
and
c) Its either them or his family. And the first book in this trilogy very much proves how much David loves his family and would do whatever he needed to to protect them. For the same reason he rushed into a room full of fighting aliens and wild animals to save his pets, he's gonna murder the fuck out of these kids to save his parents.
And good for him.
The reason that David is 'an asshole' to the fandom is b/c he tried to murder the protagonists that they're rooting for. Even when those protagonists themselves are largely slavery apologizing (Cassie), racist, ableist, low key to high key genocidal (Jake, Tobias, Aximili) assholes who frequently murder and maim innocent people being held against their will with no regards to bystanders.
I still feel like having the story from David's perspective instead of from 2 people who didn't like him at all and fucking Cassie would have been a great opportunity to have an outside perspective on the Animorphs.
#nix responds#animorphs#honestly the only times i think about animorphs anymore is when I see some good salt#like with kill la kill i just kinda want to steal the actually interesting bits of the story and just leave the rest to rot#b/c the hork-bajir are neat#'animorph' is a good word#kids with animal powers having adventures is fun
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Old School X is a project interviewing X-Files fanfic authors who were posting fic during the original run of the show. New interviews are posted every Tuesday.
Interview with tatooedlaura (Laura Sprys)
Laura has 28 fics at Gossamer, but the big treasure trove of her stories is at AO3, where she has 193 fics. Thank goodness for the richness of the X-Files and for talented, creative people like Laura who can find so many interesting ways to tell tales in the show’s universe. Big thanks to Laura for doing this interview.
Does it surprise you that people are still interested in reading your X-Files fanfics and others that were posted during the original run of the show (1993-2002)?
Maybe reading mine but reading older fic in general is something I still do and something I still find entertaining. I do wish i could get into my old fics and post a warning that some of those were written before the author: ever had a drink, ever had sex, ever had a boyfriend, ever lived on her own, ever had a real job, or ever experienced much of anything in the real world.
Then again, fanfic is a perfect time capsule for the age and it’s always fun to see where the originals started and how they’ve grown.
What do you think of when you think about your X-Files fandom experience? What did you take away from it?
Back in the day and up and through today, it has always been a fun experience. From it, I’ve learned to love writing. I’ve learned that fans are crazy, weird, wonderful, generous, talented, committed, passionate, and imaginative. In a fandom, you can think whatever you wish and write about anything you like and because I’ve been around so long, I’ve gotten to watch the storylines shift and the relationships change ...
Social media didn't really exist during the show's original run. How were you most involved with the X-Files online (atxc, message board, email mailing list, etc.)?
Originally, I never had much interaction with people other than ones who sent emails commenting on my fanfic … the internet at my parents house was dial-up and I had to access through the AOL free disks that arrived in the mail so, for the most part, I didn’t have the bandwidth or the connection speed to do more than upload stories and download episode guides.
Good lord, I remember submitting a story and having to wait upwards of two days to two weeks before the new batch of stories was posted ... then ephemeral came around and you could actually have your story up in under a day ... all ya'll who started on tumblr and ao3, you have it great, let me tell you :)
One thing that stands out in my mind still (and I’m still friends with her on Facebook) was a woman from western Canada who I stumbled across somewhere while looking for the blooper reels. She offered to send me her copies on VHS for my collection. I don’t think she asked for payment and one day, a package arrived from a lovely woman near Lethbridge, bloopers playable, tapes labeled in clear printing. I still appreciate that 20 some odd years later :)
What did you take away from your experience with X-Files fic or with the fandom in general?
Fandoms are crazy places. Tread lightly at first but enjoy what you want, ignore what you don’t, rewrite what you hate, and write what you love. Don’t be an asshole when you don’t agree with someone … when you do, tell them …
What was it that got you hooked on the X-Files as a show?
I was on board from the first episode. It was a show about two people who you felt were destined to be together but weren’t, and wouldn’t be for years. It was a cop show about aliens and a monster show with cops. I was in the right place at the right time in the right frame of mind and there was just something that clicked and I never looked back. Friends were not allowed to call me on Friday night and once it switched to Sunday, I made sure that my parents got us on early evening bowling league so we’d be home in time to watch. Even my boyfriend (eventual husband) knew to shut the hell up from 9-10pm, even if he was sitting next to me on the couch (with my parents in their chairs watching as well)
Also, my 56-year-old dad had a crush on Scully from the start so that was entertaining as hell as well
What got you involved with X-Files fanfic?
I have been writing stories in my head for literally as long as I can remember. Watching some episode, I honestly don’t remember which one, I suddenly had an idea for a story about Mulder and Scully. I had never written a story with pre-existing characters before and it was totally foreign to me. How do you write a character with a current storyline. It was weird, it was difficult, it was some of the most fun I’d had writing up to that point.
Suddenly, I didn’t have to explain or describe the characters, think of jobs and mundane things … they already had those … and it was great.
Honest-to-God, my first fic was written, in pencil, on a yellow legal pad by flashlight while lying with my head at the foot of my bed so I could see my parents coming down the hall if they happened to wake up at midnight to go to the bathroom. Later fics were written by the light of an 10” TV/VCR combo with me still lying with my head at the foot of the bed. I still have those old legal pads somewhere and I remember having to type them in secret, having to wait until the house was empty for 20 minutes to an hour at a time. Uploading them was always unnerving because of the slow dial-up and the fact that I didn’t have my own email address, but had to use my dad’s. I’d have to make sure to check it whenever I could, intercept the feedback I’d get off gossamer.
I was such a damn rebel.
What is your relationship like now to X-Files fandom?
Well, I now know how to interact with people given tumblr and AO3 but it hasn’t changed much. I contribute a little more now that I understand posting on social media but mostly, I still just write like a fiend and post, read voraciously and give kudos and likes often, comment some and reblog.
Were you involved with any fandoms after the X-Files? If so, what was it like compared to X-Files?
I dabbled and have a favorite ‘Fringe’ fic … I tried to read a Harry Potter fic once … I type ‘West Wing’ occasionally in ao3 and tumblr ...
And nothing, absolutely nothing, has ever caught me like the X-Files did in regards to the fandom experience.
I have shows I watch and re-watch and re-watch but no two characters have ever had me writing and thinking and planning like Mulder and Scully. No other combo has ever made me write upwards of 300,000 or more total and still have plenty of stories to tell.
I’m okay with this.
Who are some of your favorite fictional characters? Why?
Aside from Mulder and Scully and the gentlemen three of Frohike, Langley, and Byers … I love all Scully’s nieces and nephews in my ‘Life’ series … I also love Corduroy (picture books), Harold (purple crayon fame), Neville Longbottom, the characters from my own novels, Katniss (book not movie), Anne Shirley, Elnora (from the Limberlost), Will Stanton/Merriman/Barney/Jane from ‘Dark is Rising’ and 10,459 others …
I’m a children’s librarian so most of my favorite books are those written for the younger and YA crowd. I like my job :)
Do you ever still watch The X-Files or think about Mulder and Scully?
I watch this show all the damn time. I will think about Mulder and Scully when I have nothing else to think about, normally writing and editing whatever story I may have in the hopper at the time about them.
My husband laughs when I have the show on. He knows all the episodes with me and it’s one of my comfort shows that I don’t have to pay attention to when it’s on. During it, I have edited books, decorated cookies, been sick, been recovering, simply wasted a perfectly good day because I could.
My 17-year-old daughter keeps it on while she does homework and works out.
It’s a staple at our house and no one is allowed to make fun of it, even though we all know that parts are completely ‘make fun-able’
Do you ever still read X-Files fic? Fic in another fandom?
I read fic all the time … I have worked my way through AO3 starting from the beginning and if it was more easily readable on a phone, I’d work my way, once again, through gossamer.
Restated from above: I dabbled and have a favorite ‘Fringe’ fic … I tried to read a Harry Potter fic once … I type ‘West Wing’ occasionally in ao3 and tumblr ...
Do you have any favorite X-Files fanfic stories or authors?
I have all kinds of favorites on tumblr but right now, I honestly don’t remember most of the names … I pretty much read everything that comes through my dashboard and every few days, i read through the newest posts on AO3 … I love you all!!
What is your favorite of your own fics, X-Files and/or otherwise?
Of X-Files fics, I love my newer stuff … I read “Life” and its sequels every few months … ‘Your Place or Mine’ is another one I will read … actually, I’ll just say it .... I read all my own fic over and over again …
With fic, you get to write the characters as you want to see them and write situations that you want to see … I write for myself most of all and I love to read what I wrote :)
Do you think you'll ever write another X-Files story? Or dust off and post an oldie that for whatever reason never made it online?
I write them all the damn time. I have tons of snippets and half-finished that I occasionally glean things from but while sometimes, old stuff morphs into new, sometimes, it just needs to gather that dust and live a quiet little forgotten life in some backhand folder on my dropbox account ...
Do you still write fic now? Or other creative work?
First question is answered above.
As for other creative work, I have published two YA novels, have the third in that series in editing … I have five other novels in the hopper in various stages of ‘good lord this needs an edit or twelve’ …
I am writing things constantly in my head or on my laptop … most is crap … stome sticks … some turns into fic and some turns into books …
But the point is, I am writing, in some form, at all time :)
Where do you get ideas for stories?
Some two sentence conversation will spark an idea … the line of a song will inspire an idea … a word will start a sentence which will turn into a paragraph which will tumble straight into a story … and sometimes, stuff just pops in my head for no damn reason at all ...
What's the story behind your pen name?
On gossamer, I am L. Sprys because that was my name at the time :)
On tumblr and AO3, I’m tatooedlaura because my name is Laura and I have, now, six tattoos (yes, I spelled it wrong in my handle but that’s life) … when I decided on the name, I think I only had two
Do your friends and family know about your fic and, if so, what have been their reactions?
They do now … it took me years to crack and tell them … my husband has never read them, nor have any of the people I have told (as far as I know)
Now, I don’t really care who knows … I’ll tell them I write smutty X-Files fanfiction and family-friendly X-Files fanfiction …
I am too old at this point to be embarrassed by what I like to do. If they laugh at me, I tell them they only get to laugh when they’ve published a book and I pull up my books on Amazon … I’ve only had to do that once and it shut them right the hell up …
Is there a place online (tumblr, twitter, AO3, etc.) where people can find you and/or your stories now?
Gossamer: L. Sprys
Tumblr and AO3: tatooedlaura
Is there anything else you'd like to share with fans of X-Files fic?
I love you! I see you! I appreciate you! I hope you enjoy! Don’t judge me for my grammar issues! I will never be able to spell the word ‘excersize’!
(Posted by Lilydale on April 27, 2021)
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A different ask! What do you think Roose actually feels about Ramsay? Just before the Red Wedding he talks very dismissively about how Ramsay could be executed for his crimes, but obviously he knows Robb's never gonna get the chance so maybe he cares more than that. But Ramsay (probably) killed precious Domeric? What does he actually feel about him and potential Walda baby(-ies)?
Thank you for your question :) I have divided my answer into points regarding the different aspects of your ask.
What do you think Roose actually feels about Ramsay?
In regards to the Roose-Ramsay relationship, some facts are important:
Roose did not raise Ramsay, and as far as we know did not interact with him in his childhood beyond the two times the miller's wife came to him after his birth. ("She was never to tell the boy who had fathered him." - Reek III, aDwD) All he knew about Ramsay was that he was his son, had his grey eyes, and was "wild and unruly" (the reason Ramsay's mom demanded a servant).
"Lord Bolton has never acknowledged the boy, so far as I know," Ser Rodrik said. "I confess, I do not know him." - Bran II, aCoK
Ramsay only came to the Dreadfort in 297AC (after Domeric died). This is extremely recent - for context, we have Dany chapters in aGoT taking place as early as 297AC, and the War of the five Kings starts at the end of 298 AC according to this timeline.
As a consequence, since Roose leaves the Dreadfort for the War of the five Kings, he assumed a paternal role for Ramsay in between 297AC and at most very early 299AC (The timeline has the battle of the green fork in January 6 and he'd need to travel to the south before that in the first place). This is only between 1-2 years depending on how early or late that year Domeric died (Shoutout to @blueagia who made me realize this timeline years ago).
Ramsay is violent and cruel, but not stupid (Roose even says he is “cunning” in Catelyn VI, aSoS). He was able to present himself as an ally to Theon in aCoK, and it stands to reason he might have given a salvagable impression to Roose at the beginning while he was testing the waters. Ned Stark is a just man who tried to execute the remote-living Jorah Mormont for slave trade; Since he never went after Ramsay, we can assume whatever Ramsay did during his time with Roose was discreet enough that word did not get to Lord Eddard, and so at the beginning Roose must have had no reason to complain too much about Ramsay's conduct either.
Eddard Stark had never had any reason to complain of the Lord of the Dreadfort, so far as Jon knew. - Jon VII, aDwD
"No tales were ever told of me. Do you think I would be sitting here if it were otherwise? Your amusements are your own, I will not chide you on that count, but you must be more discreet. A peaceful land, a quiet people. That has always been my rule. Make it yours." - Reek III, aDwD
Roose gets a legitimization for Ramsay as part of his benefit from doing the Red Wedding, showing that back then he still had an intention of keeping him as his son and heir. However, returning from the war in the south shows Roose how bad Ramsay's political decisions are when left on his own, including:
Leaving Donella Hornwood for dead, horrifically abusing Theon who is a valuable hostage and a potential ally, being unable to keep good optics and alienating his allies ("Surely you misspeak. You never slew Lord Eddard's sons, those two sweet boys we loved so well. [...] How many of our grudging friends do you imagine we'd retain if the truth were known? Only Lady Barbrey, whom you would turn into a pair of boots … " - Reek III, aDwD), abusing his wife "Arya Stark" who is beloved by their Northern allies, and more...
We see in the aDwD Theon chapters that Roose is still giving Ramsay advice and counsel (see again the Reek III quote), however he also appears to be despairing of him:
"I know." Lord Bolton sighed. "His blood is bad. He needs to be leeched. The leeches suck away the bad blood, all the rage and pain. No man can think so full of anger. Ramsay, though … his tainted blood would poison even leeches, I fear." - Reek III, aDwD
We also see in later Theon chapters that he frequently holds meetings without Ramsay:
[Roose:] "The hall is not the place for such discussions, my lords. Let us adjourn to the solar whilst my son consummates his marriage. The rest of you, remain and enjoy the food and drink." - The Prince of Winterfell, aDwD
Lord Bolton was not alone. Lady Dustin sat with him, pale-faced and severe; an iron horsehead brooch clasped Roger Ryswell's cloak; Aenys Frey stood near the fire, pinched cheeks flushed with cold. - A Ghost in Winterfell, aDwD
[Lady Dustin said] "Roose is not pleased. Tell your bastard that." - The Turncloak, aDwD
Implying he is losing faith in his son, or otherwise does not trust him or value his input when it comes to political situations; a bad omen considering heirs like Robb usually sit with their fathers in councils.
My impression is that Roose initially adopted Ramsay as an heir for the following reasons:
- Sentimentality, since Ramsay is a son of his own blood ("I should've had the mother whipped and thrown her child down a well … but the babe did have my eyes." [...] "Now [Domeric's] bones lie beneath the Dreadfort with the bones of his brothers, who died still in the cradle, and I am left with Ramsay. Tell me, my lord … if the kinslayer is accursed, what is a father to do when one son slays another?" - Reek III aDwD). As a member of a patriarchal society, Roose was raised with the expectation that he will continue his bloodline, and so likely has the wish to be succeeded by his son.
- Practicality, since Ramsay is already an adult, so he doesn't have to raise and invest in another child for years ("That's for the best. I will not live long enough to see new sons to manhood, and boy lords are the bane of any House." - Reek III, aDwD). [Speculation: For a new son, he would also have to remarry, and both his prior wives are implied to not have liked him ("The two before her never made a sound in bed" - Reek III, aDwD) while he also doesnt speak of them with fondness - so he might also prefer to be single and raise his bastard instead of having to deal with yet another unpassionate/unloving marriage (considering he's middle aged and uncharismatic, a young new wife wouldn't be thrilled about him), until he finds a marriage that provides him a good benefit (like the Frey money + alliance).]
- The belief that, despite Ramsay being raised a peasant and having violent tendencies, it is possible to "educate him" so that he becomes a functioning member of society (see again my point about Roose counseling him). Roose possibly initially projects some of his own personality on Ramsay (Compare this meta i wrote).
During aGoT-aSoS he must have still thought Ramsay viable, which is why he has him legitimized by the crown. He has not known Ramsay closely for long; This explains why he kept him around even though he is so unfit as an heir (it takes time to fully realize that), but also explains why he is so dismissive of him, as that short time of knowing him as an adult would not make him fond of Ramsay the same way one might be fond of a child they raised.
Roose then realizes after the war, as seen in a Dance with Dragons, that Ramsay is not a fitting heir. What this means for the later books is open for now... Will he abandon Ramsay? Use him as a scapegoat? Or still try to salvage him? I personally believe he is starting to see Ramsay as a danger, and is starting to think about how to best get rid of him.
Just before the Red Wedding he talks very dismissively about how Ramsay could be executed for his crimes, but obviously he knows Robb's never gonna get the chance so maybe he cares more than that.
My belief is that Roose is fundamentally selfish and worried about his own skin. While he has the goal to establish Ramsay as a capable heir, he prioritizes his own safety and reputation. By distancing himself from Ramsay's crimes in front of the other Northmen, he can't be blamed for them; by using Ramsay as a scapegoat for Bolton crimes, he himself can wash his hands from the involvement and won't be hurt if any crimes come to light. If he keeps pointing attention at how Ramsay is wild/cruel/treacherous, then the northmen are more likely to suspect/blame Ramsay than the "peaceful" Roose. Also, even if he cared for Ramsay, he would never openly admit it because it's something that could be used against him (same reason as to why he generally keeps his emotions under wraps).
If you compare this scene from aCoK (where Ramsay is believed dead) with the scene you mentioned from aSoS, you can see that to prioritize his own safety and reputation he will sacrifice Ramsay; but he will also defend Ramsay ("Yet he is a good fighter, as cunning as he is fearless.") as long as it serves his interests, of course while still keeping an emotional distance.
One important thing about Roose is that he does not always say the things he actually thinks; When looking at his quotes it is not only important to look at what he says, but which intentions he has with his words and what effect he wants them to have on the person listening. Compare this quote by grrm:
Lord Bolton may well have all sorts of things in mind. Whether or not he would act on any of those thoughts is another matter. Roose is the sort of fellow who keeps his thoughts to himself. - SSM
But Ramsay (probably) killed precious Domeric
"Ramsay killed him. A sickness of the bowels, Maester Uthor says, but I say poison." - Roose in Reek III, aDwD
This is speculative, but I personally believe that case is not as clear-cut as it is made to look. Poisoning Domeric does not necessarily seem like Ramsay's style; i often see people in fandom suspect that his mother is actually the culprit. I personally suspect the first Reek of killing Domeric - we know he once stole perfume, meaning he knows his way around the castle, and he also got looked at by a maester implying he might know the maester’s chamber where poisons could be kept. He has ample reason to hate Roose, who let him live with the pigs and had him whipped and later sent him to live with Ramsay, but also seems to have interest in improving Ramsay's status ("She made him, her and Reek, always whispering in his ear about his rights." - Reek III aDwD). He is also known to be inseperable from Ramsay, so if Ramsay went to meet Domeric, Reek would come with him.
Either way it could be that Roose just didnt initially believe Ramsay killed Domeric since it looked like he died from sickness, and only later changed his mind on this issue - note that Barbrey Dustin, whom he is implied to have regularly spent time with shortly before the quote about Ramsay killing Domeric, seems to be a believer that Ramsay was the murderer, so she might be the one who convinced Roose; And maybe Ramsay's bad conduct during the time of the war aided to make Roose believe her. Changing his mind on this could influence his decision on what to do with Ramsay come the Winds of Winter.
Or alternatively, if we’re keeping closer to the text, he just thought the positives of keeping Ramsay outweigh the negatives of him being a kinslayer; however it seems odd that Roose, who is so worried about his safety, would adopt a man if his first act he knows of was this treacherous and dangerous. Then again he frequently verbally states that he does not see Ramsay as a threat, which can be read in different ways depending on if you take it as a literal statement or as a tool to enact dominance over his dangerous son.
"All you have I gave you. You would do well to remember that, bastard.” [...]
“I know what he said. You're to spy on me and keep his secrets." Bolton chuckled. "As if he had secrets. Sour Alyn, Luton, Skinner, and the rest, where does he think they came from? Can he truly believe they are his men?" - Reek III, aDwD
What does he actually feel about him and potential Walda baby(-ies)?
I think he would like to have a son that continues his values and manages to be a capable heir to continue the Bolton line. Domeric was the ideal son, talented and competent, and Roose invested a lot of time and money in giving him a great education. Now that Domeric died and all of this is down the drain, and Roose himself isn't getting any younger, he wants to have a new heir in a way that's the most convenient for him. It appears to me like he is currently weighing the positives of each option (Ramsay or new Baby), and it might even be that he has already come to a decision, considering how he is starting to grow frustrated with Ramsay.
"I have become oddly fond of my fat little wife. [...] Ramsay will kill [all the sons she bears me], of course. That's for the best. I will not live long enough to see new sons to manhood, and boy lords are the bane of any House." - Reek III, aDwD
In line with my earlier point about Roose’ words also being about the effect and not just the message, I believe the line about him being ok with Ramsay killing his sons might be very calculated towards the fact that Roose knows Theon is to report everything he hears back to Ramsay. If Ramsay hears this, he is placated, because it confirms that he is still the main Bolton heir - which means that he does not have to think about harming Lady Walda (because the sons are no threat to his position), and he does not have to think about harming Roose (because he just has to wait until he can succeed him).
Of course all of this post is based off the first five books, so the interpretation may change once the next book comes out or through a different reading of the lines.
#asoiaf#roose bolton#ramsay bolton#asoiaf meta#meta#asks#i have a cold i hope this is coherent as a whole... if you have questions feel free to come into my ask box#mzyraj
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a/n: i just think the “aliens need to breed with humans because reasons” trope is underused in this fandom
The receptionist sent Joseph into a private room to wait for his appointment, so he had plenty of time to look around at the place where an alien would be fucking him. It looked like a combination of a hotel room and a gynecologist’s office, with a neatly-made king-sized bed and a reclining chair with stirrups. Joseph sat awkwardly on the edge of the bed.
A knock at the door. “Come in!” Joseph called, hating the nervousness in his voice.
The first thing he noticed about the alien who came in was how large he was, eight feet tall at least. The second thing Joseph noticed was that he had wings, and four arms, the lower pair of hands politely clasped, the upper holding a clipboard and pencil. His eyes were round and red and featureless. His mandibles touched for a moment before he spoke, and Joseph found himself staring.
“Hello,” the alien said. “My name is Indrid, and I am here to prepare you for insemination and observe the process.”
“Hello,” said Joseph.
Indrid looked down at his clipboard. “You are Mr. Joseph Stern, correct? Just to make sure I’m in the right room.”
“Yes, that’s me.”
“Alright. In that case, Mr. Stern, I just have a few questions for you before I begin the physical examination.”
“Ask away.” Joseph couldn’t tell where Indrid was looking, whether up at him or down at the clipboard, and the effect was a little unsettling.
“You have volunteered, of your own free will, under no coercion, to be personally inseminated by an anonymous donor.”
Well, when you put it that way. “Uh, yeah.”
“I’ll need a yes or no, please.”
“Yes. I did volunteer.”
“Charitable of you,” Indrid murmured as he made a mark on the clipboard.
“The pay isn’t half-bad either,” said Joseph, trying for a joke and not quite landing it.
“You marked down you prefer vaginal penetration. Is that correct?”
Oh, god, Indrid was looking at the form he’d filled out to volunteer? The form where he listed his sexual history (minimal), fantasies and inhibitions? “Yes, that’s correct.”
“What is the capacity of your vaginal cavity?”
“What?”
“Sylph copulatory organs are larger than their human counterparts.”
“Oh, well, I’m a bit of a size queen, so I’m sure that won’t be a problem.” He’d also done his fair share of Googling.
“What does that mean? I’ve never heard that phrase before, size queen.”
“It means. Uh. It means I like big things inside me.”
“Oh. Well, that’s convenient, I suppose, though numbers would be more helpful.”
“The largest dildo I have is… seven inches long?”
Indrid wrote that down. “And in diameter?”
“An inch and a half.”
“Should work out nicely.”
Joseph felt slightly light-headed. “Will… will the person I’ve been assigned look like you?”
“No, of course not, he’s much more human-looking,” said Indrid without lifting his gaze from the clipboard. “My kind lays eggs, actually,” he added in a more joking tone.
Joseph whimpered. Indrid’s head snapped up. “Do you think he’ll… like me?” It was an embarrassing question to ask, but would hopefully distract from the even more embarrassing fact of how exactly Joseph felt about the prospect of eggs.
“I’m sure he will. Do you have any more questions before we continue?”
“No.”
“Alright. Feel free to stop me at any point if you become uncomfortable. Would you mind undressing for me?” Indrid turned his back and opened a cabinet.
Joseph unbuttoned his shirt and shrugged it off, then his pants, and neatly folded both. Indrid turned back to the room and gestured to the gynecological chair, and Joseph sat down. “Feet in the stirrups, if you please.”
Joseph watched with some interest as Indrid affixed electrodes to his chest, entirely professional, and a heart-rate monitor to his finger. Then he sat down on a stool between Joseph’s spread legs and the clipboard on his lap. Joseph closed his eyes, waiting for Indrid to keep touching him, and heard the scratching of a pencil.
Oh. Indrid was drawing him, with his head between his legs, so close Joseph could almost feel his breath. Joseph couldn’t see the heart monitor from where he was, but he could hear it, beep beep beepbeepbeep as his heartbeat quickened.
“You’re already rather aroused,” Indrid commented absently.
“No I’m not,” Joseph said, although he was sure he was already wet enough for Indrid to see.
He looked up, not at Joseph’s face, but at the heart rate monitor over his shoulder. “My equipment tells me otherwise.”
Joseph couldn’t argue with that. Eventually Indrid put the clipboard aside and picked up an electronic probe, that looked something like a micropipette. “I need to put this inside you. It’ll test your fertility and make sure you’re not allergic to any Sylph proteins.”
“Alright,” said Joseph. The probe slid in easily.
“Such a good, accommodating human,” Indrid murmured. He kept the probe in for a few seconds, though to Joseph it felt like more, and pulled it out when it beeped. “It looks like you’re all set. Are you ready for your assigned partner?” Indrid asked, leaning over the chair to remove all the electrodes and the heart monitor.
“Ready as I’ll ever be.”
“It’s perfectly fine to change your mind at any point.”
Indrid wasn’t going to let him pretend he didn’t want this. “No, I’m ready.”
“Alright.” Indrid crossed the room and opened the door he himself had come through. “Barclay? He’s ready for you.”
The person who walked in, indeed, did not look like Indrid. Just far enough from human to remind Joseph exactly what he’d signed up for, Barclay looked like an ape, with auburn fur and a face just to the left of human, and he was nicely dressed, in a white button-down and slacks.
“Joseph, this is Barclay,” said Indrid. “Barclay, Joseph. He’s quite wet already, I think he’s been looking forward to this.”
“Nice to meet you!” Barclay stuck his hand out for a handshake. Joseph scrambled to get down from the chair and shake his hand.
“Uh, nice to meet you too!”
“I’m required to stay and watch, just to make sure everything goes alright, but you can just pretend I’m not here,” Indrid said.
Joseph nodded. “Bed?”
“Sounds good to me.” Barclay started unbuttoning his shirt - god, his chest was broad - and then took off his pants - god, that ass - then turned back to Joseph, who tried very hard to keep his gaze up and not on, as Indrid had put it, the copulatory organ. “Can I kiss you?” Barclay said.
Joseph nodded. And then Barclay was cupping his cheeks and kissing him. Joseph forgot where he was, forgot what was happening, his whole world was just Barclay’s hands on him and Barclay’s honey-brown eyes. “You have gorgeous eyes,” he said when Barclay pulled back a few inches.
Barclay laughed. “You’re cute.”
“Do you do this a lot?”
Barclay nodded. “You already seem more eager than most.” He bent his head coyly and kissed Joseph’s neck. “Let me be good for you?”
That made Joseph whimper. “Please fuck me.”
“It’s what I’m here for.”
Joseph lay back on the bed, pulling Barclay down with him. There was so much of him, solid and muscular underneath the soft fur. Barclay kissed him again, quickly, and pulled away, and Joseph closed his eyes, expecting a cockhead to press against his folds but letting out an involuntary squeak when he felt a tongue instead.
“Sorry,” said Barclay. His arm was wrapped around Joseph’s thigh. “Not that?”
“No, no, that was good, I just wasn’t expecting it. Please.” Joseph tugged on Barclay’s hair. He had a vague feeling he shouldn’t be begging, that this was supposed to be something professional and detached.
“Tell me what you want,” Barclay asked.
“I- I don’t know.”
A moment of silence before Indrid cut in. Joseph had almost forgotten he was in the room. “If I may offer a suggestion.”
“Sure.”
“He responds well to praise. Good boy, and all that.”
Just hearing Indrid say it so matter-of-factly was enough to make Joseph squirm. Barclay lowered his head and licked across his entrance. Then he turned his head to level his gaze at Indrid. “Voyeur.”
“Excuse me,” said Indrid primly. “I am being paid to be here.”
“Nice gig if you can get it,” Barclay muttered.
“Humans tend to regard me as a sexual nonentity,” Indrid replied. “Therefore my presence is not alarming.”
“Oh, be quiet, moth,” said Barclay, and turned his attention easily back to Joseph. “Fuck you’re so good for me,” he said, his whole lower face slick, “so wet, you feel amazing.”
Joseph tried to buck his hips up but Barclay was too strong, too heavy. “Please fuck me, if you keep doing that you’re going to make me cum, and I want -”
“You want me inside you, good boy?”
“Yes,” Joseph breathed. Barclay got up again and Joseph dared to look between his legs. Fuck, his cock was big. Joseph threw his head back and let himself groan as Barclay pushed in, unbearably slow and gentle. Looking up, he could see that Barclay’s teeth were gritted as he eased himself in and out. He was holding back.
“Fucking harder,” Joseph said, wrapping his legs fully around Barclay’s waist. “Fucking fuck me.”
Barclay buried his face in Joseph’s hair, and it took a little for Joseph to make out the words he was whining. “Want to be so good for you,” Barclay was saying. “Want to be the best mate, breed you right, want to -”
And Joseph realized the strangled moans he could hear were coming from him, that he, Joseph, was coming right now as Barclay’s dick split him apart.
The next thing he knew, Barclay must have finished too because he was pulling out and collapsing on the mattress next to him.
Panting, Joseph managed to turn his head. Indrid was still standing there, watching, though at some point he’d snapped the pencil he was holding.
Joseph’s voice was hoarse. “How soon can I volunteer again?”
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