#before robin? BEFORE ROBIN? you mean those 9 detective comic issues? there is no before robin. robin was always there. get over it | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

incorrectqus · 4 years

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Popular DC Characters and Their Canon Religions

(Thought about doing this bc I thought it would be cool and interesting to do plus I’m still obsessed with gradient text)

(Also these are based off the Prime Earth or New Earth Versions of the characters)

(And there are a lot of characters who aren’t on this list bc they have no confirmed religion)

Edit: I re-did this with evidence directly from comics as to the character’s religion.

Batwoman (Katherine Kane) Jewish

The Kane’s are implied to be part of the Reform Judaism branch of Judaism. more evidence to her being Jewish is in DC Infinite Holiday Special (2006) we see her celebrating Hanukkah with her girlfriend, Renee. In Detective Comics #854, #858 and in Batwoman #7 you can find more evidence of her being Jewish.

Batman (Bruce Wayne) Atheist

He grew up Christian with his father, Thomas Wayne, being a big influence, but his mother, Martha Wayne was Jewish. Batman in issue Batman #30-#33 (written by Tom King) has it confirmed that he doesn’t believe in a God. Also in Justice League (2016) in #23 its also confirmed he’s an Atheist.

Black Canary (Dinah Lance) Christian

In Wonder Woman #34 Wonder Woman asks Black Canary directly if she’s Christian and she says “Yeah, I mean it's complicated, but sure.”

Blue Beetle (Jaime Reyes) Christian

It’s assumed he’s Christian as in Blue Beetle (Volume 7) #9 there is an imagine of Jesus in his house and in Blue Beetle (Volume 7) #21 Alberto mentions going to church with him.

Booster Gold (Michael Carter) Atheist

My favorite boi has openly admitted to being atheist in Justice League International Annual #2.

Doctor Fate (Khalid Nassour) Muslim

He’s an Egyptian-American and both of his parents are Muslim and it has been confirmed by DC that he also follows Islam.

Doctor Fate (Eric Strauss) Jewish

He was mostly raised by his Jewish step-mother Linda Strauss and therefore it’s assumed that he also follows and believes Judaism.

Dove (Wiley Wolverman) Atheist

In Hawke and Dove (Volume 4) #4 it’s stated he doesn’t believe in God.

Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) (Christian on New Earth) (Jewish/Christian on Prime Earth)

So it’s been stated that Hal is Christian, but when Prime Earth came along he had adjustments to his background and we got a glimpse of his father, Martin Jordan, who was Catholic, and his mother, Jessica Jordan, who was Jewish and them celebrating Hanukkah. In current comics it’s shown that Hal believes in God, but whether that is the Jewish or Christian God is up to interpretation.

Green Lantern (Jessica Cruz) Atheist

In Green Lantern #42 we see Jessica and Simon’s religion clash and its confirmed that she is Atheist.

Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner) Christian

In the Omega Men series we see Kyle Rayner reference back to his Catholic mother and in turn he speaks of following that faith and he even prays on several occasions.

Green Lantern (Simon Baz) Muslim

In Green Lantern #42 we see Jessica and Simon’s religion clash and its confirmed that he is Muslim.

Harley Quinn (Harleen Quinzel) Jewish

There have been references to her being Jewish since her first comic with celebrating Hanukkah, but she was finally confirmed to be Jewish in Gotham City Sirens #7.

Huntress (Helena Bertenelli) Christian

Her backstory states she comes form an Italian Catholic family as well as the fact she has a cross on her costume.

Joker Atheist

Guy hates God and Gods and any higher power as well as doesn’t believe in them even though he’s met a few. Plus with all the sad backstories he has I wouldn’t be surprised if he lost his faith before becoming the Joker.

Lex Luthor (Alexander Luthor) Atheist

He was written during the Cold War and many villains were actually written to be atheists to basically see them as even more evil. Plus the guys ego is too big to believe in anything more powerful than himself.

Mister Freeze (Victor Fries) Atheist

In Outsiders (Volume 4) #21 its confirmed he’s an atheist as he says he doesn't believe in an afterlife.

Mister Terrific (Michael Holt) Atheist

In Infinite Crisis #5 it’s confirmed that he’s an atheist and doesn’t believe in anyone, but himself and his team.

Red Robin (Timothy Drake) Atheist

Confirmed in a Red Robin #22 he says he doesn’t believe in a higher power(s).

Supergirl (Kara Zor-El) Raoist

Easily explainable as she grew up on Krypton and follows it’s religion.

Superman (Clark Kent) Christian

He was created by two Jewish guys, Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster. He was raised by two Midwestern Methodists, Martha Kent and Jonathan Kent, and therefore follows their religion

Bonus:

The Flash (Barry Allen) Jewish in the DCEU

Green Lantern (Guy Gardner) Buddhist during Flashpoint Timeline

Johnny Thunder (John Tane) Mormon only Mormon DC Comics character

Red Hood (Jason Todd) Christian during Flashpoint Timeline (so all those fanfics with Priest Jason maybe coming from somewhere)

Also Raoism (Rao-Orthodox) is the Kryptonian religion based on the god Rao. The religion has like 14 major deities, 200+ demigods and 1000+ titans. And one of their major deities name is Nightwing...guess where Dick’s name came from?

#dc comics #batman #harley quinn #justice league #supergirl #superman #red hood #green lantern #green lantern corps #black canary #blue beetle #red robin #mister terrific #mister freeze #joker #doctor fate #cyborg #booster gold #batwoman

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heroicadventurists · 4 years

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Robin 80 ***spoilers***

Robin 80 was a wonderful celebration of the first sidekick... the Boy Wonder... Robin. This issue consisted of 10 stories focusing on the different iterations of Robin. While Carrie Kelley received a pinup in the issue, she did not receive her own story. Robin 80 focused on the five canon Robins. While some are upset that Duke was not included in this lineup, he was never an official Robin to Batman. If we count Duke, we have to count all of the "We Are Robin" crew. When given the choice by Batman, Duke chose to pave his own path as his own hero, which is commendable. Dick received 4 out of the 10 stories in this issue, which was fitting considering it is also his 80 year anniversay. My favorite thing about this issue was the acknowledgement that Bruce adopted the male Robins. Below I rank the stories in Robin 80 from my least favorite to my favorite.

10. Dick Grayson, Nightwing in Aftershocks

Writer: Chuck Dixon

Starting off my list is Aftershocks. This story follows Dick after he has quit being Robin, and has assumed his new identity, Nightwing. This story highlights perfectly how Dick operates as a solo hero. He is brave, quick on his feet, witty, and of course, he saves the day. This was a good one-shot but it didn’t have the impact that some of the other stories in this issue had. However, it did serve it’s purpose of showing Dick coming into his own.

9. Nightwing and The Titans in Team Building

Writer: Devin Grayson

Like Aftershocks, this story serves to show how Dick operates as a team leader. He was smart, strategic, capable and decisive. He was everything you want in a team lead. As before, this was a good one-shot, but it also lacked the emotional impact that other stories on this list had.

8. Dick Grayson, Agent 37 in The Lesson Plan

Writers: Tim Seely and Tom King

Like Aftershocks and Team Building, this story follows Dick as Agent 37. In this story he is a mentor to a young recruit named Paris. He gives her lessons throughout the story that contradict every lesson Batman ever taught him. When he gets to the final lesson, he tells her the one thing that he agreed with Batman on “Ignore Your Mentor. Do What You Do Best”. One thing I really appreciate about the stories focusing on Dick is that each story is a progression in his vigilante career. He has an actual arc in Robin 80.

7. The Supersons in My Best Friend

Writer: Peter J Tomasi

This was an adorable story about how Jon views his friendship with Damian. Damian is a lot more vulnerable when he is with Jon, and honestly, he acts like the kid that he is. This was a lighthearted and sweet story that shows a different side to our current Robin.

6. Tim Drake, Robin III in Extra Credit

Writer: Adam Beechen

This was a wonderful piece that highlighted how awesome Tim is. For so many, Tim is their Robin, and it was nice to see him getting recognition in this comic.

5. Stephanie Brown, Robin IV in Fitting In

Writer: Amy Wolfram

Out of all of the stories in this issue, Stephanie’s story made me think the most. There was a very deep meaning behind this story once you get past the surface level. So let’s breakdown this story. The story begins with Stephanie showing up late to a training session. She suits up in one of Tim’s old costumes. Of course there are issues with this and Stephanie is busting out of the seams (not because she’s overweight but because she has breast, butt and thighs to contend with). She complains about her hand-me-down costume while Bruce focuses on training. Even with her top busted, Bruce is still training. He even has the nerve to tell Stephanie she is distracted. Alfred shows up with Dick’s old costume as a replacement, and Steph asks for something “without a cup”. Bruce FINALLY makes Stephanie a suit fit for a young lady, but when she puts on her new costume, Bruce tells her “no more excuses”. Let that sink in. He saw her complaints about wearing a male costume as an excuse not to train. Let’s carry on. They go to Western Town to take on Firefly. The villain du jour does not take Stephanie seriously and calls her “Cosplay Girl”. Stephanie is rash during the fight and does not follow Batman’s orders, resulting in her capture by Firefly. She is able to avert disaster (barely) and saves the day, but Batman still chides her.

Batman: “Tim would have waited outside”

Robin (Stephanie): “I’m not Tim!”

Batman: “I know”

Stephanie tells Bruce that she wants to be her own Robin and to stop trying to make her into something she’s not. Bruce hears her and makes her a special closet in the batcave with her own costumes. This seems like a step in the right direction but we know how her Robin story ends.

At no point in this story did I feel like Stephanie was being sexualized. it was more awkward and embarrassing than anything else. Neither Bruce nor Alfred said anything inappropriate to Steph, and no skin or nipples were shown thru her shirt. She was just in a predicament where her costume was too tight because Bruce was making her wear Tim’s old costume. And that was the point of the story (at least for me). Bruce wasn’t trying to find a replacement Robin, he was trying to find a replacement Tim, and eventually get Tim back.

Bruce has a bad habit of trying to replace people in his life. He did this with Jason and he did it with Stephanie, and the results where dang near the same. Bruce replaced Dick with a direct copy, down to the hair color, race and costume. Bruce was trying to do the same with Stephanie, however it was unsuccessful for obvious reasons. This story really made me think about all the extra pressure Bruce put on Steph and Jason by trying to have them live up to Tim and Dick respectively. Instead of playing up their strengths and letting them define what type of Robin they wanted to be, he wanted them to be replicas of their predecessors. Both results turned out in disaster with Jason dying and Stephanie nearly being killed after she was fired. To me this story highlights how badly Bruce tried to use Stephanie to get to Tim. It makes absolutely no sense that he wouldn’t make her a costume to fit her body. But is it surprising b/c he did the same thing to Jason. To me this story was a lot deeper than Stephanie busting out of her top. It was about 1. Bruce’s need to get Tim back 2. Bruce’s lack of respect for Stephanie and 3. Stephanie’s disastrous run as Robin. Say what you will but she held the mantle for less than 3 months and almost died trying to prove herself to Bruce. Stephanie never got a fair shake at being Robin, and this story highlights that perfectly. She was literally setup to fail. Maybe I have overthought this story, but those are the points I got from it, and they are important points to be made, which is why it takes the # 5 spot.

4. Dick Grayson, Robin in A Little Nudge

Writer: Marv Wolfman

This is a story about a boy becoming a man and setting off on his own journey. In this story, we see Batman and Robin clashing on patrol, as Batman wants Robin to fall in line and Robin wants to make his own decisions. The issue ends with Dick thanking Bruce for everything he has done for him but leaving the nest to become his own hero. Bruce knew this day was coming, and instead of talking to Dick, he purposely picked small fights with him so he could make that step on his own.

3. Damian Wayne, Robin: Son of Batman in Bat and Mouse

Writer Robbie Thompson

This story lands in my #3 spot This story focuses on the fundamental differences between Damian and Bruce. Bruce knows that something is going on with Damian, he just can't figure out what it is. He wants to fix it but he doesn't know how. He can't rely on Alfred, as this story takes place after his death. On Damian's part, he is blaming everything on Bruce instead of taking responsibility for his own actions. While some see Damian's current storyline as a regression, I see a lost kid with no guidance. Alfred is dead, Dick is Ric and Bruce is emotionally inept. Jason tried to step-up, but that relationship soured quickly. Damian has no one to guide him, and is making bad decisions as a result. This story sets up the eventual showdown in the upcoming Teen Titans annual.

2. Jason Todd, Red Hood in More Time

Writer: Judd Winick

I was not expecting Jason to have the most heartfelt story in this issue. This story was beautiful and now I want Judd Winick to write another Red Hood miniseries or ongoing. This story highlighted the complicated relationship between Jason and Bruce in the most purest way I've ever seen. Even the artwork had an innocence to it. The story goes back and forth between a young Jason, who loves Bruce wholeheartedly, and an older Jason, whose relationship with Bruce is way more complicated and strained. This story highlights why Jason will always be a part of the Batfamily, because even with their complicated relationship, they love each other. This story just adds to the wonderful stories featuring Jason in 2020.

1. Tim Drake, Red Robin in Boy Wonders

Writer: James Tynion IV

The brotherly bonding in this story is what landed it in the # 1 spot. This story takes place prior to Detective Comics # 934. In this story, Tim cannot decide if he wants to attend college or join Bruce in forming the Gotham Knights. He seeks advice from Dick, Jason and Damian, with each one telling him something different. Dick tells Tim that he's a hero that the next generation can look up to. Jason essentially tells Tim that Bruce is stuck in his ways and he has the opportunity to be better than Bruce. The best advice however came from the little Gremlin in Tim's life. After some well placed insults, Damian tells Tim that he has accomplished everything he has set out to do, and has been successful in his endeavors. At the end of the day "You do anything you damn well please". The confirmations Tim received from his brothers was much needed for him and helped him make the decision to form the Gotham Knights with Bruce. I loved getting a "behind the scenes" look at how The Gotham Knights protocol was formed. Because of these factors, Boy Wonders has my #1 spot.

What is your favorite story from Robin 80?

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forevercloudnine · 3 years

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new 52 scarebat ship meme

(I had @heroes-etc give me more questions, but for scarebat this time, since we talk about it 24/7 but I never post about it. These are from this ship meme.)

4. Their favorite physical feature on each other?

There’s only one feature of Bruce’s appearance that’s scarier when he’s not wearing the batsuit, and that’s his creepy blue eyes. Especially the way Greg Capullo draws them where they’re sickly pale and have ridiculously constricted pupils.

So his eyes would definitely be in the running for Jonathan’s favorite feature, even if seeing them would require Bruce’s mask to be off, which is something New 52 Scarecrow explicitly avoids. Yes, that character trait only exists to justify why Batman’s identity is still secret after Scarecrow mind controls and subsequently institutionalizes him in “Gothtopia,” but I think it’s interesting so I’m going to pretend it’s not shoe-horned in there for meta reasons.

Actually having to see Bruce without the cowl on would definitely permanently break the illusion of Batman as a nightmarish inhuman bat demon, which I’m sure is a large part of the appeal for anyone as obsessed with fear as Jonathan Crane. But Bruce’s creepy eyes would be a serious consolation prize.

Bruce’s favorite of Jonathan’s physical features is rough, because Jonathan is famously not great re: physical features. I’m going to say his mouth, because a) that’s where the snark comes from, and b) the New 52 establishes that in one of their earlier encounters, Jonathan had sewn his own mouth shut, so it’s one of those things where a bad first impression turned positive later on leads to more fondness than if you’d made a good impression in the first place.

I just looked up the panel where he does it and I DID forget how incredibly gross his lips look here, which makes the fact that I have chosen it as Bruce’s feature seem really funny in retrospect. But I do think that seeing Jonathan’s mouth healed and unmutilated would be a reassuring reminder of how he’s stabilized since their first encounter, at least to the point that he isn’t hurting himself anymore. Also, Bruce buys him a lot of chapstick.

Bonus alternate answer that did not make it into the Google Doc:

9. How open are they with their feelings?

Bruce and Jonathan are both pretty competent deceivers in the New 52; Bruce always, Jonathan depending on how the writer is feeling (though you could argue that Bruce just has a stronger grip on reality, while Jonathan’s skill at obfuscation varies with how lucid he is).

...I was going to use Detective Comics #23.3 as an example of Jonathan being a good liar, but actually upon re-reading I’m realizing that only 1/4 rogues buy his attempt at manipulation. So maybe he’s considerably worse at hiding his intentions than he thinks he is. Regardless, he doesn’t ever attempt to disguise his obsession with Batman.

Whether or not he’d express romantic feelings or try to hide them is debatable. There’s no Masters of Fear equivalent in the New 52 establishing that he was ever mocked or punished for expressing romantic feelings for someone, though there is a flashback panel in his origin emphasizing that he was always lonely in this regard (and coincidentally doesn’t specify that his interest is in women, which is fun).

In Green Lanterns #17 he has some internal monologue about how fear is his romance and he needs Batman to feel it, but it is an INTERNAL monologue, so it’s not clear if this is something he would express to Bruce or keep to himself. Or if he’s even fully processed it himself, given how incredibly out of it he is in this comic. Most of his spoken lines are just kind of screaming incoherently. Bruce gets pretty snippy with a Green Lantern at the end of the issue for suggesting that Jonathan should be punished for his crimes as if he were in control of his actions.

Bruce is a similarly complicated answer, since for all his deceptions and shadowy mystery he pretty much wears his heart on his sleeve when it comes to romance. It’s just that his heart doesn’t express or process emotions the same way as anyone around him, which can create conflict. His (seriously underrated) love interest during Scarecrow’s origin arc, Natalya, spent most of her time dating him thinking that he didn’t care about her for this reason. He was trying to express that he loved her, but he mostly did so through complimenting her skills, which she never took as serious declarations of affection because he wasn’t being straightforward and she was insecure.

Jonathan does not himself seem like someone who would be especially secure in the idea of another person having romantic feelings towards him, so I assume that while Bruce might THINK he’s being open with any romantic feelings he develops, he would in reality just be really confusing.

13. How do they react to being away from each other?

I actually think that in general, Jonathan is one of the few people who would have no issue dealing with Bruce’s tendency to unexpectedly go AWOL for long periods of time, given that he himself has a tendency to fixate on his work to the exclusion of everything else.

But New 52 Jonathan specifically probably has pretty serious abandonment issues due to his father putting him in “the pit” and dying before he could take him out, meaning that Jonathan was waiting for his dad to come back for him for God knows how long, until Jonathan Sr.’s employers finally sent the police to investigate.

So while in general I think he wouldn’t be very clingy, any impression that Bruce had died or otherwise wasn’t coming back for him would probably be incredibly triggering. If Bruce could assuage this reaction by occasionally sending updates that at least indicated he was still alive, then I doubt Jonathan would have any problems with his absence.

(@heroes-etc: bruce sending like a checkmark emoji once a day. jonathan hears his phone ping, looks at the screen, and goes hm. good. and doesnt respond.)

Bruce meanwhile has no problem ditching literally any love interest at any time if something crime-related comes up, unless he’s considering quitting the cowl for them (as Joker probably accurately fears will happen with Catwoman in Prelude to the Wedding). But I don’t think he’d stop being Batman for Scarecrow, nor would Jonathan ever want him to — he’s interested in Batman, not necessarily Bruce Wayne.

But even though Bruce wouldn’t have an emotional problem with distance, I think he would get similarly paranoid if they went too long without contact, though for different reasons than Jonathan. Unlike some other villains (*cough* Joker and Riddler), Scarecrow has machinations that don’t require getting Batman’s attention, so if he decided to continue with his less legal experiments, he would not feel compelled to get Bruce involved. While the “World’s Greatest Detective” would probably not have an issue keeping an eye on Jonathan while he’s in Gotham, he’s considerably less capable of that in space. And Jonathan is definitely a rogue he would be obsessed with keeping an eye on, even if he reformed.

Batman & Robin Eternal established that Dick’s first supervillain conflict AND first mission leaving the country was chasing Scarecrow across the world for an entire summer, which is kind of insane considering how early it was in Batman’s career. Like, he did not have an army of children to watch Gotham for him while he was gone. He had one child, and he took that child WITH him. He left Gotham undefended for months, JUST to catch Scarecrow. Sooo that in of itself implies he wouldn’t be great at keeping his distance.

15. Does their view of themselves differ from their partner’s view?

Well, Jonathan occasionally sees Bruce as a giant bat demon, so yes.

Outside of that very obvious differing view, Jonathan in general sees himself and the rest of the rogue gallery as more vital to Batman’s identity than Bruce considers them; the extent to which he’s right varies depending on your interpretation of Bruce’s character, but it’s definitely not something Bruce would ever consciously think or say.

This is related to something that’s definitely a misconception of his, though, which is that the majority of Batman’s job revolves around supervillains like him. In Kings of Fear, when Jonathan blackmails Bruce into letting him come on patrol with him (which is a whole thing in of itself), he’s shocked at how boring most of Batman’s work is. Which probably goes along hand in hand with sometimes seeing Bruce as an almost mythologically inhuman figure.

In his defense, it’s not like he has a lot of context for what the minutiae of Batman’s job is like. He’s either fighting Batman, hiding from Batman, or imprisoned by Batman in Arkham, a place where everyone else also spends all their time fighting or hiding from Batman. Which would really skew your perspective.

Interestingly, Bruce and Jonathan are both people who pride themselves on being extremely self-aware. Both of them probably inaccurately. You can rant about how you have a perfect understanding of your troubled mental state all day long, but if you’re still dressing up like a monster at night to indulge the power fantasies you created as a traumatized child by scaring the hell out of people, there’s probably a level of self-realization you haven’t gotten to yet.

Bruce however is at least self-aware enough to regularly be able to analyze his way out of fear toxin induced hallucinations, which Jonathan is unable to do — when he’s not depicted as having become immune to his fear toxin due to overexposure (as he is in Green Lanterns #17), he can be defeated with the same formulas that Batman regularly manages to resist (like his honestly embarrassing breakdown in Nightwing #50).

Which ties into the difference between how he sees himself and how Bruce sees him: Jonathan obviously visualizes himself as a “master” of fear. He actually has the same internal monologue about fear and trauma that Bruce does in Batman: The Dark Knight #13: “Make it your own... run to what you fear... stare it in the eye... until it whimpers and backs down.” But Bruce doesn’t see Scarecrow as conquering his fear; he sees him as addicted to it, to the point of his own detriment.

Which is interesting, because Jonathan clearly sees his Scarecrow persona as a way to regain control after being victimized by his father’s fear experiments throughout his childhood. I guess Bruce’s perspective would be that Jonathan’s father instead got him addicted to fear as a child, so his attempts at agency as Scarecrow are just a) reliving his trauma over and over and b) compulsively inflicting his own trauma on others. There’s probably some truth to that, even if overall it’s probably an oversimplification (and coincidentally pretty much EXACTLY what Riddler argues Bruce is doing by “funding” Batman in Batman Annual #4, so there’s that).

20. Did either person change at all, to be with their partner?

The obvious answer here is yes, because Jonathan is a supervillain with no regard for human life while Bruce is a superhero who has dedicated his life to protecting people. So presumably one or both of them would have to make serious compromises to be together. HOWEVER. Scarecrow’s primary motivation is to research, understand and inflict fear, while Batman’s modus operandi is making his enemies afraid of him. So despite their contradiction in morals, they’re uniquely positioned to advance each other’s goals, were they to ever join forces.

Bruce never has a problem using fear toxin on Scarecrow, presumably partially out of an “eye for an eye” sense of poetic justice, but also because Batman is practical and it’s a nonlethal weapon that’s always available to him while fighting Scarecrow. If he could have fear toxin customized for his own use, it’s hard to imagine him being unwilling to use it. In Gothtopia he actually advocates for using what’s leftover from Crane’s new formula on all the inmates at Arkham, which seems about as insanely morally ambiguous as it gets. Arguably, putting fear toxin in his smoke bombs would be considerably less wrong than drugging mental patients out of their mind when they’re supposed to be receiving therapy (this is also the issue where he illegally releases Poison Ivy because she did him a favor, which is both morally questionable and relevant to the current topic).

Jonathan obviously already thinks Batman is the most interesting possible case study in fear; it’s why he keeps coming back to Bruce and Gotham despite being one of the more independent villains in Batman’s rogue gallery in the New 52. So though he would have to give up actively kidnapping people (which would be a huge sacrifice, I’m sure), teaming up with Bruce would give him unrestricted access to his favorite test subject. Unfortunately, it seems very possible that he would fall back to old tricks if he ever felt that he’d gotten everything he could out of a partnership with Bruce. Fortunately, that would probably take a VERY long time.

#scarebat #jonathan crane #scarecrow #bruce wayne #batman #ship meme #every day i think about the parallels between bruce and jonathan's childhoods that were set up by their new 52 origins #well. not every day #pretty goddamn regularly #i used to absolutely despise the new 52 scarecrow origin + characterization #but scarebat redeemed it for me

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soyouareandrewdobson · 4 years

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Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na RACIST! (how Dobson thinks Batman is a supremacist, why I think Batman is not so good and Frank Miller is problematic

Over the last couple of years, Andrew Dobson has mad eit clear that he is not a fan of the character of Batman much (or anymore), calling him a Mary Sue and an embodiment of toxic masculinity as if that term means something nowadays considering how often it is thrown around. And don’t get me wrong, if you don’t like Batman as a character, that is completely fine with me. I myself am not the biggest fan of Batman myself. Or rather should I say, his overexposure in the comics.

Cause honestly, I do not hate the character on concept. I watched reruns of the Adam West Batman show from the 60s and the animated 90s show long before I even saw the Burton versions. Batman Brave and the Bold is one of my favorite animated shows of the 2000s. And I think that there are quite a few good Batman stories, shows and games out there overall. I do however believe that when it comes to Batman in the mainstream comics, things have taken a nose dive for a long time. Writers like Grant Morrison, Scott Snyder and Tom King in particular have over the last 10+ years (at least in my opinion) not just attempted to write stories about Batman as a hero, but also put him into the center of ever escalating events and philosophical wang fests so often, the comics and its characters (Batman and his villains alike) have become quite ridiculous. As a result Batman as a comic series is at times just too edgy, people get sick of certain characters (I like the Joker, but the way how he was handled in some of Snyder’s stories was ridiculous to the point they should have just called him Satan) and Batman comes off as a Gary Stu almost by default, cause the only way a “normal” human could even dare to deal with the over the top situations he faces, is by being even more over the top and smart and awesome by default.

Now that we got my soapboxing regarding why I think Batman is not as good as a comic character anymore out of the way, lets see what Dobson’s take on Batman is and why he thinks he is turning Bat- I mean bad.

He believes that Batman turns into a fascist.

... I would ask if that is a joke, but I know that Dobson does not get humor at all or can tell a good joke if he was possessed by Leslie Nielsen.

Okay, so lets just try to dissect why this is dumb.

First off, while I did not talk about it in detail, I did mention that there are different incarnations and versions of Batman to enjoy. Hey, Dobson himself said that the one he enjoyed the most was the Batman of the animated series in the 90s. Which btw I highly recommend. And so do others. But here is the thing: There is not one “ultimate” version of Batman to stick to. There are different interpretations of the character. And most people are okay with that. Heck, there are more than enough people who both enjoyed the 60s Batman and Burton’s Batman. The important thing is, that all those interpretations need to have a certain key element of Batman still in order to make the character recognizable as who he is to be. Which in my opinion is the willingness to fight for good even in the face of some serial killer level baddies and show also once here and there his smarts as well as a bit of heart (guess what people, Batman can be compassionate too if he needs to be) while at the same time wearing a costume as he does and try to convey the image of being “the night” to put fear in the hearts of those cowardly criminals.

Which is why people in general will call writers out on being bad, when you do not “get” Batman or what people in general associate Batman to be. But Dobson seems to insinuate at least indirectly that people are dumb for not understanding it. That he is supposedly the only one who “gets” Batman right. No Dobson, you are not the only one. The shitton of people who mocked Batman vs Superman of which you were a part of, are proof enough.

Next, I have to admit I find it hilarious that he believes that Frank Miller’s version of Batman is what he believes people consider slowly the mainstream version of the character. No they don’t.

Let me try to explain it with this version a bit, seeing how Dobson does not and in doing so is utterly misinformative. In the late 2000s, comic writer Frank Miller, known for work such as Sin City, 300 and his run of Daredevil in the 80s, was tasked by DC comics to write “All Star Batman and Robin” a miniseries in 12 issues. While the thing has actually pretty good artwork by Jim Lee (an artist Dobson wishes he could be), the story itself is very, very bad. While Miller was in the past quite respected and was the man behind “The Dark Knight Returns” in the early 90s (a comic even I think is pretty decent as a story about Batman as an older man taking the cowl up again) , his work in general even at this point was not that good. Miller had become an openly racist person towards people of muslim background after witnessing 9/11 in New York in person, Batman in his work became a vigilante who gets away with levels of assault, violence and edgy philosophing and beating his meat (metaphorically) that it just became pretty obvious that Miller had turned into a racist grandfather with power fantasies whose ideas oozed into his work. I am not denying the accusations Dobson throws here at Miller. His Batman in All Star is violent, acts like a self righteous psycho, kidnaps an underaged boy and does at one point consider that if he had Green Lantern’s power ring he could make the world “better” than Hal Jordan. Which considering his actions so far in that comic makes any person with self preservation instincts and empathy wonder, what “better” means. Additionally, other characters like Superman, Wonder Woman and the mentioned Green Lantern don’t really fare good either when it comes to having likable personalities, making you wish a villain like Luthor would just get rid of those “heroes” already just to assure us they could not go crazy next tuesday.

So yeah, it is a shitty version of Batman, despised by many to the point All Star Batman is mocked to the nth degree. Miller himself became even more controversial and hatred when he wrote and got Holy Terror released, a beast I do not even want to touch upon at the time righ now. I just say it is bad as shit and one of the worst writen and drawn things I ever saw.

HOWEVER… this version of Batman is not the mainstream one. I repeat: this is not the mainstream one, “accepted” by a majority of people. As the paragrpah previously show.

The character All Star Batman is considered ONLY associable with Millers miniseries of the same name, that did not even properly conclude as it was put on endless hiatus with issue ten. It has never become inspirational for any other portrayal of the character so far and DC comics also does not endorse the character in correlation with its main universe, even if they still sell tradepaperbacks of the series.

This, if you have any reading comprehension, points towards one of the biggest lies in Dobson’s comic: The idea, that THIS Batman is the one that’s been popular for the last 15 years or so, as STATED by Dobson himself in the second panel of his comic.

No. No, this “Batman”, the violent psychopath who uses guns and drives a tank, is not the mainstream and never was so in the last 15 years. Or I should rather say 20. See, this comic was published like in 2015. Meaning he is referring to Batman from between 2000 till 2015.

Lets see what versions of Batman were popular at this point

So we got a Batman who was there for a girl dying cause of something done to her brain, a 60s inspired Batman who still was badass and worked well with other heroes and saved the world a few times, a videogame Batman who would not even have let the Joker die when his poison finally got the better of him (Arkham City), a Batman who travelled backwards through time into the present and then tried to use his fortune to support heroes in other parts of the world to do good (I acknowledge though, the Batman shooting Darkseid thing was crap, even if Darkseid is the god of evil in DC) and we even got (though not shown here) a Batman who even when he drove a freaking tank did not run over peolpe with it (Batman, Nolan trilogy) and would rather accept people hating him than being a hero, by taking on the blame of Harvey Dent being killed to not taint the laters reputation. Oh and did I forget to mention that Nolan’s Batman almost sacrificed himself to prevent Gotham from nuclear destruction?

And before someone says “gotch’ya” by pointing at another rinfamous work by Miller, known as the Dark Knight strikes again… I said popular. That comic from the early 2000s was not popular and again NOT referenced much by mainstream media or mainstream fans as good.

Now I will say, Batman as in the mainstream comics at the same time got unfortunately darker to the degree I hinted on when I made this post. Cause the last 15 years were comic wise the time of Morrison, Scott and others in particular. Who were involved in such “brilliant” moves as the Court of Owls story, the introduction of Professor Pyg, turning Joker into a satanic archetype villain stu, Batman having the brilliant idea to go Big Brother Eye, the No Man’s Land shit, having to deal with more brutal murders than previously etc. Yes, mainstream Batman got more violent. But the violence was less in the character itself as more within the world he was part of. Mainstream Batman comics took on a more violent tone than there was before. But ironically, even if Batman had to face more brutal beatdowns and villains, by comparison he is one of the most “kind” characters compared to the ones he faces or even works with. This is a character who had to teach his own son that murder was not okay, cause the kid was raised by an evil murder cult.

And even with the mainstream comics such as Detective Comics and Batman main series becoming darker… they are not pro-fascist or go into that direction. I read a lot of DC in general, not just Batman, and Batman is not going sieg heiling or beating up people because of the color of their skin or because they are poor. When Lex Luthor was president, Batman was one of the main heroes opposing him. Mainstream Batman is beating you up for being a murderer and highly violent criminal with a gimmick, independent of your political agenda. And the writers are also not pro fascist, including even post 2015 Frank Miller.

Yeah. Frank Miller, whose work I am not fond of and who I think is a racist asshole who had things coming for Holy Terror, is not really writing (or at least publishing) racist Batman anymore.

Don’t get me wrong, I still think the guy is bad and I believe if he had a chance to get his opinion out unfiltered, we would be in for a shitstorm. But I actually read up on his Dark Knight 3: The Master Race thing because I was worried how racist that is and how DC would recover from that dud. Turned out… it was not as bad as you would expect with a title like this. The “Master Race” referred in that story to a group of racist kryptonians who thought they should take over earth because their powers made them superior. While Batman was not the most positive character in it, he was fighting against them with many other heroes. This Batman was actually a vast improvement personality wise from Batman in Dark Knight strikes again and All Star. So yeah, Batman written by racist grandfather was still a hero. Granted, I think a lot of that was also thanks to the fact that DC had partnered up Miller with someone who kept things tighter around him, but still. Fascist Batman is not a thing the comics and the majority of fans want.

Ironically, if you want to see how a publisher taints the image of a hero people look up to by making him more racist… well, Dobson’s “praised” and woke Marvel did once something called Secret Empire. Which had Captain America turn into the Fuehrer and taking over America. And the Nazis for a lack of a better word, were “competent” enough in the story that the heroes really only won in parts thanks to a shitton of asspulls. So… yeah.

I mean, the event still ended with the good guys winning and the bad guys defeated, but still.

youtube

#batman #adobsonsartwork #andrew dobson #frank miller #dc comics #this sucks #grimdark #batman and robin #syac #idiocy #fascism

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thebookbandwagon · 4 years

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Unpopular Opinions Book Tag

I’ve seen this list of tag prompts floating around and find them really fun to read and watch so here’s my take on it. This is just for fun and I’ve put the image of all the stuff I talk about below so you can skip over this post if you don’t like the idea of seeing potential criticisms of them. My Youtube version of this is here.

1.) A popular book or book series that you didn’t like

Mistborn by Brandon Sanderson. I read the first two in the trilogy and I just don’t connect on a personal level to any of the characters. I’ve enjoyed other books by this author but Mistborn just… doesn’t do it for me. I don’t have the level of emotional investment in the characters that I want and they don’t feel like vivid people to me.

2.) A popular book or book series that everyone else seems to hate but you love

Captive Prince by C.S. Pacat. I know not everyone hates this series, but there’s a fairly high proportion of the people who read it who end up hating it. Based on the negative reviews I’ve seen, many people’s reasons for hating it seems to be rooted in labelling it as problematic. While I agree there are a couple of elements of the series that aren’t handled with as much care as they should be, I still don’t think it’s quite as bad as some people make it out to be. It’s also a pet peeve that some people make it out as if an author having certain things happening in their stories means they endorse those things happening in real life and that’s just... not logical.

3.) An otp that you don’t like

99% of the time I just don’t care about pairings and there aren’t that many pairings I can think of that I actively dislike instead of just not caring. Buffy/Angel? I’m counting it as qualifying for this tag because it has comics. I never found a Buffy pairing I either liked or was neutral about. I found Buffy/Angel to be way too over the top and corny and too instant. I honestly have no idea what they talk about when they’re not dealing with various apocalypses and watching it made me realise where part of the inspiration for Twilight probably originated from.

4.) A popular book genre that you hardly reach for

Young Adult Fantasy that’s geared towards the older end of the spectrum. If I’m reading YA it’s either because I trust the author to write something I like in that genre or because I want to give myself a brain break and read something I can get through really quickly. I’ve found with the older end of the YA spectrum that there doesn’t seem to be much difference in the reading difficulty between YA and Adult within the fantasy genre so the genre usually just ends up not giving me what I want from it.

5.) A popular/beloved character that you do not like

Kvothe from The Name of The Wind by Patrick Rothfuss. I like there to be things characters are bad at and Kvothe was just way too good at every single thing he did for my taste. Never before have I been so invested in the main character of a book failing and I was left completely unsatisfied because at no point in The Name of the Wind does Kvothe fail when it isn’t because of being sabotaged by someone else. I know there are theories about how he’s an unreliable narrator but unless I see actual evidence on the page then I just don’t have the faith that he is. Saying that, I really did love the writing style so if Rothfuss writes anything not involving someone who I despise as much as Kvothe then I’d give it a go.

6.) A popular author that you can’t seem to get into

Leigh Bardugo? I’ve read Six of Crows, Crooked Kingdom, as well as Shadow and Bone and they were all fairly meh reads for me. I feel like my reasons for not being able to get into her books come down to my repeating previous points I’ve made because they’re a combination of the genre she writes in as well as me knowing I love the tropes and character archetypes she’s using but just not having the level of investment in her characters that I want.

Robin Hobb is another popular author I can’t get into. She has characters that feel much more vivid and writes within Adult Fantasy but her pacing is so so slow and I’m not patient enough as a reader to be able to get through her lengthy books.

7.) A popular book trope that you’re tired of seeing

Redemption = Death. I love a good villain eventually turning sides or an anti-hero/anti-villain having a good redemption arc but it seems like all these arcs inevitably end in their death and it just… doesn’t have to be that way. I’d find the story far more interesting if the redemption arc doesn’t end so abruptly and the person undergoing it has to figure out their new place in the world, how to live with themselves, and other people’s changing perceptions of them.

8.) A popular series that you have no interest in reading

Lord of the Rings by J.R.R Tolkien. As a fantasy fan, peer pressure makes me feel obligated to like this series. I don’t like this series. I’ve attempted to read it three times and only managed on one of those times to get almost halfway through The Fellowship of the Ring. All the characters just don’t do anything for me (except you, Gollum) and I have no interest in what happens to them or the themes within the story.

Me not liking Lord of the Rings doesn’t mean that I don’t appreciate what it’s done for the fantasy genre though and I’m well aware most of the series that I love probably wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t for the book that’s basically responsible for the catalyst of the genre of fantasy books that feature worldbuilding.

9.) What movie or TV show adaptation do you prefer more than the book?

Hmm. If I was only going off seasons 1-4 of Game of Thrones I’d go with that but considering what happened after I’m… ugh.

So instead I’m going with Dirk Gently’s Holistic Detective Agency. Originally by Douglas Adams, it’s a very witty and quirky comedy book series with sci-fi and fantasy elements set in modern-day (which back then would’ve been around the 80s). It follows a detective who employs bizarre techniques like Zen Navigation:

“Rather than using conventional avenues of wayfinding like consulting a map, the Zen navigation method consists of finding someone who looks like they know where they’re going and following them. This is supposed to deliver the navigator to their destination, although its results are variable and often unexpected and unintended. It very rarely gets you where you wanted to go but always where you needed to be.”

The only issue I have with Douglas Adams is that his characters tend to be a bit on the caricature-ish side but this is something the TV show put a huge amount of effort into and it paid off so so well. I had my reservations about the show since, other than Dirk, it looked very Americanised but they actually did an incredible job. It’s funny, complex, wacky, unpredictable yet (sort of) makes sense. There are lots of warm fuzzy feelings between the main characters and it’s great. Also there’s a portal to a fantasy world where the knights fight each other with giant pairs of scissors. It’s an incredibly underrated Netflix Original series that always deserved more attention than it got.

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davidmann95 · 6 years

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What kind of superhero comics should one read to truly appreciate Watchmen? I know you'll probably say it doesn't matter, but what if somebody really wanted to, to truly understand the conventions of the genre Moore was playing with?

It very much matters! Watchmen shouldn’t be someone’s first superhero comic; even in an age where most people have seen at least a few movies with the Avengers in them, those all exist in a post-Watchmen landscape, which means not only are some elements that book grapples with old-hat, but other conventions they wouldn’t be aware of at all because they’ve fallen so far out of the common usage. Granted, you could probably just read All-Star Superman or Batman: Year One or something and have a basic enough grasp of how superheroes work for Watchmen to have the proper impact, but if you really want to prime yourself, some suggestions:

We can get started with the basics of Superman and Batman’s first appearances in Superman, Champion of the Oppressed from Action Comics #1 (though I’d really recommend the fuller telling of the tale in Superman #1) and The Bat-Man: The Case of the Chemical Syndicate from Detective Comics #27. No high-minded reasoning here; they kicked off the genre Watchmen takes aim at, it makes sense to see what the ground floor looked like. I also have to suggest looking up the slim two-page Batman: Who He Is And How He Came To Be, the original psychological superhero origin story. And if we’re talking traditions Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons drew from, it would never be a mistake to track down some of The Spirit.

Skipping into the 50s and early 60s, I’d say try Jimmy Olsen: Foreign Correspondent! in issue #26 of his eponymous title - it’s a prime example of that era’s hijinks, but more relevantly it ends with Superman very casually overthrowing a corrupt monarchy with a mention after the fact of some ill-defined new democratic regime being installed, a pretty perfect picture of the extent of superheroes’ political engagement in those days (and if you want the logical endpoint of that line of thought, go to Superman #162′s The Amazing Story of Superman-Red and Superman-Blue!, an ‘Imaginary Story’ showcasing Superman being split into two intellectually superior copies who solve all the world’s problems in a tale that was clearly *very* influential on Alan Moore’s superhero work). I’d also grab the original Justice League/Justice Society team-up in Justice League of America #21-22, since it both establishes the idea of a shared superhero universe where everybody’s friends and the idea of generations of different heroes coexisting to some extent. And maybe Detective Comics #327 on top, the introduction of Batman’s ‘new look’ with the yellow oval logo and a classic breed of Batman & Robin vs. Strange Gangland Schemes adventure.

Into the later 60s and 70s, the obvious recommendation is Steve Ditko’s The Question stories - the introduction of the faceless Objectivist avenger who inspired Rorschach, and a prime example of Ditko’s aesthetic and moral bedrock that pervades Watchmen (as it was originally intended to be a story of characters primarily created by him) - but the only collections of those scant few comics I can find are DC’s Action Heroes Archive Vol. 2 from over a decade ago, and this “Gwandanaland Comics” collection on Amazon; his refinement of the character archetype and themes in Mr. A probably isn’t easy to track down either. In their place, you might as well double back and hunt down Spider-Man’s origin from Amazing Fantasy #15, seeing as it employs Ditko’s beloved 9-panel grid and features the appropriately horrifying story of someone in a more ‘realistic’ world using their powers in a less-than-superheroically-moral fashion and ultimately paying a terrible price for their lack of principle. Additionally, Must There Be A Superman? from #247 of his namesake book was a landmark in terms of placing superheroes in a recognizable world that they have to grapple with, falling short enough of what Watchmen does to preserve its impact while giving an impression of how much other superhero writers were starting to acknowledge similar ideas. Add Steve Englehart and Marshall Rogers’ Detective Comics run (now collected as Batman: Strange Apparitions) and perhaps The Joker’s Five-Way Revenge! in Batman #251 as representations of the understood cutting edge of mainstream superhero work, and you’re set.

I recognize that list ends almost a decade before Watchmen itself, but I think it’s fair to say the Englehart/Rogers Batman was still considered to be at the head of the pack when it hit. Material such as Frank Miller’s or Moore’s earlier work, while stupendous, wasn’t remotely comparable in terms of what the average initial Watchmen reader would’ve been exposed to, and Moore while drawing from plenty outside the mainstream was mostly playing off the big stuff in terms of iconography and the conventions of the genre, particularly DC’s. Its most significant contemporaries aren’t very informative either; Crisis on Infinite Earths is an entirely different breed of superhero book, and while The Dark Knight Returns started earlier and may have had some influence, Moore’s earlier work already prefigured much of his Watchmen material, and moreover DKR had enough in just enough in common with Watchmen that reading it first would likely blunt rather than emphasize the latters’ transgressiveness.

#Watchmen #Opinion

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rason-rodd · 7 years

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Red Hood And The Outlaws: Loyalty (Chapter 10)

[Read the Chapter on AO3] [ Chapter 9 ]

Chapter 10 : Late Night Interrogation

From the tops of the highest buildings, one could picture Gotham City as a good place to live in. No sound except the whistling of the wind blowing softly. Yes from up there, Gotham could pass for the East Coast gem city with her beautiful shining lights which brighten the night sky like thousands stars. But when you look more closely, when you get down on the streets, you realise that the view is merely an illusion, a masquerade, something to cover up the truth, that the city is broken, soiled by criminality and that the light has stop shining a while ago. You don’t live happily ever after in Gotham City, you suffer and die in tremendous pain.

This is something Jason Todd has always known. But still, he stays, watching the people from up here, and he dares to dream of the day his beloved city would gain back her glory just like he used to do when he was a teenager hidden among the gargoyles, alone.

Except that tonight, he’s not alone.

“ You know I think Gotham will never stop surprising me.” Jason confessed as he took a bite in his burger. “ Yeah, I agree. It’s not everyday that I end up booby-trapped and that close to blowing up” She greedily sucked her salt-covered greasy fingers, enjoying her well-deserved meal. “ Then you’re definitely new on the job.” “ No, I’ve just been away from Gotham for too long to remember how mad this city is.” “ Where have you been then?” “ Here and there. Travelling the world …” She stole him a fry as she talked but Jason didn’t complain. After all, he cared little about the food. He only wanted her to confess more things about herself and he had thought that some late night unhealthy takeout would help by not making this conversation too interrogation-y. “ On the run?” “ On an adventure.” She corrected him with a smile “Never gave the CIA, the FBI, Mi-5 or Interpol the means to track me down”. “ What about the GCPD?” She frowned and immediately put down her burger back in its packing as she was about to take another bite. “Neither … But by all means, Redbird, keep asking your questions and I’ll keep pretending not to see where this is going.”

Jason sighed when he realised how vexed and annoyed she was. “Listen [Y/N], I just want to know what Batman meant when he said he’ll send you back “where you should have stayed”?” She got immediately to her feet with a sigh. “ Of course you do ... How naïve of me to think we could just have some nice burgers and fries after a long night of hard work” “ You don’t answer my question.” He stood up as well but when he felt the anger growing in her voice he decided to do his best to remain calm and still in order not to make her feel oppressed and to give her some space. “ Why would I? You haven’t told me anything about you, not even your name, so why would I tell you a damn thing about my past?” He didn’t reply but he could definitely understand her point of view. “Trust goes both ways, Red. And since you’re not willing to give me yours …” He narrowed the space between them, pointing at her with a threatening finger. “Hey! I put my fucking life between your hands tonight and look where it almost led us!” Too angry Jason, too angry, calm down. But that was the thing with Jason Todd. He was not known for his ability to keep his cool. On the contrary, a simple irritation or a false accusation was enough to make him boil over in a snap. The result of years of living on his own in the streets certainly. And he had always been conscious of that, even back in the days he was still Robin. Batman had pointed out his anger issues to him and had tried to help him control his temper, in vain. Apparently, you can take the kid out of Crime Alley but not the other way around.

“ Oh come on, don’t lecture me, Redbird. How many times do I have to say I’m sorry?” “ You didn’t say you were sorry” He snarkily declared. “ That doesn’t mean I didn’t mean it … Wow, that’s a lot of “mean” in the same sentence” “ Can’t you be serious for a minute, for fuck’s sake?” “ No, I can’t because someone needs to cheer up the mood a little bit since you’re too focused on being Batman’s little flunkey!” The rebuke stung a bit. Yes he was playing by Batman’s rules but he hated it and it sure as hell wasn’t making him Bruce’s puppet. “ By all means, say it louder!” He yelled at her with some wild gesture. “ We’re on a rooftop in the middle of the night. No one can hear us. And even if somebody could, what would it change? I’m sure you’ve already given yourself away with Black Mask… Robin.”

Jason’s blue eyes immediately widened, and he stared at her confused and rattled. “ How long have you known?” She always knew. Bronze Tiger had told her so much about that outlaw who had defeated the Demon’s head. And after seeing him in action tonight, she even began to put two and two together concerning few suspicions she had. But she couldn’t tell him that so she did what she was assigned to. She lied. “ Not long and it didn’t take a genius to figure it out. Seeing you fight was more than enough to guess it. You still make the same old Robin moves you used to make in the past.” “ How would you know my Robin moves?” “ Because I saw them. Plus, does Batman organize a casting or post a classified ad on the Gotham Gazette? Because seriously, you Robins all look the same!” She cleared her voice taking a male low tone “ Looking for a dark haired blue eyed little boy willing to risk his life every night and ready to be arrested by the fashion police at any moment for wearing green shorts that are way too tiny and pixie boots … oh and who would agree to be called after a stupid bird””

Jason gritted his teeth with a frown, trying to put up with the mockery though the part about the tiny short and the pixie boots was rather correct. “Well if you knew more about the Robins, then you would know that we aren’t alike, at all. The first one is a fucking Mr Perfect, the epitome of the Boy Wonder, the last one an arrogant brat full of himself and the only reason why I will not criticize the third one is because I want him to stay in peace wherever he is now” (see Detective Comics Rebirth #940). “And you are the Bat’s lapdog.” She weighed him up “Admit it, those guns are just for show! You fancy yourself an independent vigilante, an outlaw, but what have you done except following the crazy law-and-order shit of an old enlightened man?” “ You don’t know who I am!” He snarled, his body towering her in an impressive way and his menacing eyes full of anger looking deeply into hers that were rather defying. “ That’s exactly my point!” She replied reproachfully with a sigh before looking away from Jason, annoyed. He did the same.

Calm was suddenly back on the rooftop but both could feel the adrenaline still rushing down their veins as they were both still heated by this argument. “ This team up thing was a stupid idea.” She spat not willing to look at him “ Yeah it definitely was.” But he dared to look at her. Her face was all flushed and she was still sporting this frown, the same one a pouting child would have on his face after a tantrum but somehow Jason found this quite cute on her, sexy even. When she felt his stare on her, she glanced at him. “What? Why are looking at me like that?”

#Jason Todd #jason todd x original female character #red hood #Red Hood And The Outlaws #red hood and the outlaws: loyalty #rhato #rhato rebirth

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renaroo · 7 years

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Wednesday Roundup

*long deep sigh*

Okay, I said last week I was going to cancel all Marvel subscriptions in response to the bullcrap that was revealed in Secret Empire. And I continue to firmly stand on not supporting Marvel on any decisions involving that catastrophe. But I must go back on my word. After discussing with friends and others about the best course of action, I am afraid that Marvel set things up -- what with the anti-diversity talks just a few weeks ago -- to make it seem as though any boycotts that would come about due to the Hydra revelations last week would be scapegoated to the titles that are doing the opposite. So I want to support titles that do just that -- titles like Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur -- so long as their book isn’t involved with the crossover and if their authors don’t seem to have much involvement either.

... also I pre-ordered Deadpool Vol. 6 for a specific reason that I’ll get into in the review.

All that out of the way, let’s get into the comics this week~

DC’s Batman Beyond, Marvel’s Deadpool, DC’s Detective Comics, Marvel’s Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur, DC’s Wonder Woman

DC’s Batman Beyond (2016- ) #7 Dan Jurgens, Bernard Chang, Marcello Maiolo

*long heralding sigh* We can’t leave well enough alone, can we, DC?

The continuity of Batman Beyond has somewhat been in the toilet from the start. Anything which got its start thanks to the awfulness that was Futures End was sort of doomed to that, especially since they were trying to make that the canon ending of the DCU proper, while at the same time drawing in elements from the animated series.

This book, though, honestly gave me a lot of hope for what it was doing, which was to focus on the characters pretty specifically from the DCAU Batman Beyond cartoon and growing their stories and relationships rather than focusing on trying to put itself too immediately in the Earth Prime timeline.

And those moments from this issue are great. We get more Max and Bruce interactions, which I love. We get some actual growth of Dana and Terry’s relationship. Curare is still one of my favorite villains. Matt’s increased role excites me.

And then we get this fucking page.

I have a bad history with DC splash pages of “our family history” already (see any of my Batgirl (2009-2011) rants), but this one just goes straight for the throat. Sorry literally every woman in the Batfamily ever. I mean, usually at least Barbara gets a shoutout but not even that this time around. And then the worst offense is that Damian and Duke are both whitewashed. What the actual fuck.

This entire page is a disaster, especially since we are very obviously just using it to foreshadow that the leader of the League of Assassins has to do with Damian, because godforbid anyone but the biological child be treated special.

Oh, sorry. Biological male child. Or else we’d see some plots with Helena Wayne, couldn’t have that.

Oh, Batman Beyond. Why must you hurt me the way you do. I was enjoying you so much too.

Marvel’s Deadpool (2015- ) Volume 6: Patience: Zero Gerry Duggan, Matted Lolli, Scott Koblish, Guru-eFX

So I’ve obviously made some exceptions to my Marvel rule and that is simply a case-by-case basis. There are stronger reasons for the other exception this week, Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur, which I would honestly be devastated if it was taken down because of this monumental grossness that is Marvel right now because it’s the epitome of everything that’s not the Secret Empire catastrophe.

The other is Deadpool because I pre-ordered this volume months ago and because Deadpool is just a weird exception of a comic to begin with. At least as Deadpool is written under Gerry Duggan and how these particular issues especially are written.

So yes, while I would recommend all the issues in this trade to comic fans, the issue I really bought this volume for is for a very personal reason: #20 is the issue dealing with suicide and mental illness and... as someone who struggles on this road in my own life, in both point of views we have here, I am... very particular about how these issues are approached. I hate the way it was handled in Robin (1993-2009), despise the way it was portrayed in All-Star Superman, I just honestly don’t feel like I’ve ever read a story -- especially in comics -- that spoke to me and made me feel like I benefited from it the way the comics were obviously trying to make me feel.

Deadpool goes the most realistic route I’ve ever seen this handled. It’s about “death is permanent, so let’s make sure there’s nothing else you want to do first” It’s about helping someone out, giving them other things to focus on in the moment, giving them more to experience, and then knowing when professional help is needed, when you’re beyond your means.

And it’s hard. Deadpool says it best -- unkilling someone is way harder. And I’ve never felt an issue strike such a cord with me before.

Of course, that’s only one of several issues collected, and we finally get the climax and our answers with Madcap. The entire storyline was rediculous, dramatic, frightening, and any range of emotions between. A great story overall even if anything involving Hydra -- especially Bob -- inherently sickens me at this point.

If you’re on that level with me on the Hydra stuff, I would recommend buying #20 on its own and then #25 to finish up the Deadpool 2099 story which, for me, had a good conclusion to it.

But yeah. This was a splurge purchase at least partially because... I have a feeling I won’t be picking up the next few trades of Deadpool flat out, honestly. Lots of Secret Empire this way comes. And I’m not happy about it. Hopefully I can pick up Vol. 8 or 9 and we can get back to Deadpool and Ellie and Preston and everything that makes me love this comic to begin with.

DC’s Detective Comics (2016- ) #955 James Tynion IV, Marcio Takara, Marcello Maiolo

CASS HAS A GIRLFRIEND BALLERINA AND SHE APOLOGIZED AND ALL IS GOOD AND NOT AN ORPHAN ANYMORE BE STILL MY HEART

OKAY. So that’s out of my system. Last time (two weeks ago) I went into a full on rant about how there are things I Love about Tynion’s writing -- relationships, character building, the sense of family, understanding how to write Cass the way few writers other than her creators have truly gotten -- and things I Hate about Tynion’s writing -- an overall lack of build up for payoff, weak plots, a bit of a ‘break the status quo’ mentality despite a lack of building said status quo -- there are Things. And I can make entire essays about how I feel he needs to grow as a writer especially when it comes to writing mysteries which is what Detective Comics should be at its core.

I’m putting that aside for now -- still there, I still have my issues with this arc -- but this issue is... It’s going to be a milestone.

It’s going to be a milestone in bringing Cass’ character back into full form. And I loved every moment of it. The pacing was still.... ehhh. Could’ve probably benefited more from immediately starting with the flashback explaining Cass’ recovery and reintroducing our ballerina girlfriend, then launching into the present time uninterrupted. Maybe show Cass rescuing the others from their naked Hell, because as far as I can tell that just means we’re going to have another disorganized flashback in the next issue which isn’t making me excited because that should be the finale to all of this.

Yatta yatta. Critical lenses are on, everyone, don’t worry. I’m still the Rena you know.

I just don’t care as much because those things I Love that I mentioned? They where here and they were with my favorite characters. And ALSO???? Tynion planted the seed of the ballerina and Cass living above the studio many issues ago??? And then actually gave us payoff for it??? What is this, a personal letter to me?

Nah, can’t be. No windows were broken in this issue.

I enjoyed myself is what I’m getting at. It’s amazing how I can be really irritated with Detective Comics and then all the sudden it drags me right back in with an issue that gets me just right.

Marvel’s Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur (2015- ) #18 Amy Reeder, Brandon Montclare, Natacha Bustos, Tamra Bonvillain

So i’ve dropped some books in my personal Marvel ban, and I will be avoiding anything remotely related to Secret Empire like the plague, and I still encourage other people to do the same. But there are some books, some ideas, some diversity in the Marvel lineup that for me are simply just too important to throw out with the bathwater.

Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur is 1000% a book I want to survive Marvel’s current tirefire.

And since Marvel curiously made it clear that they were going to throw their diversity titles under the bus and blame them for any loss of sales this summer just before knowingly putting out a terribly controversial book, I can’t help but allow my suspicions to rise.

Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur continues to be the best of the genre and the first book I recommend to kids -- which is something I do quite a lot. If you’ve been following my blog for a while you’ll know that I am very active in trying to get new, young readers into comics and have personally given out comics to kids in and out of the country. It’s something that is very important to me, having been raised with comics myself.

So I am very happy to go back on my word for titles like Moon Girl and I’m so glad that a book so inviting and loving is around in the disaster that is the larger comic landscape for the Marvel Universe.

DC’s Wonder Woman (2016- ) #21 Greg Rucka, Liam Sharp, Laura Martin

Considering how vocally I have been annoyed with the “B story” of this Wonder Woman run thus far, it’s a real relief to finally be able to say, as the storylines converge and we come sadly closer to the end of Rucka’s return to Wonder Woman, finally this slow burn has been worth it. And this moment I chose in particular -- Veronica Cale at long last taking Diana’s hand -- is so built up, is so necessary that it makes everything truly feel like it’s deservedly come full circle.

And Cale’s motivations in Rebirth fit so much better than they did in the Post-Crisis comics, it makes everything about this confrontation and this conclusion worthwhile.

Though there’s still a lot to be fixed in terms of Rucka’s more... tone deaf treatment of earlier racist tropes and so on that have proven to be basically completely unnecessary to this plot. That’s a pretty gross road to end up going down for no reason.

And finally we get to Ares. And maybe it’s the animal lover in me but I’m like “those poor Dobermen, hope they still have a home with Cale after the twin gods’ souls are released.

... Look we all know I’m going to pick Detective Comics for my pick of the week this week because I’m a sheep and it hit everything I wanted from an issue of Detective Comics including giving us more Cass-Ballerina action and having a fanciful callout to Phantom of the Opera that made my heart soar.

But I would, for this week, also like to provide a secondary pick for Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur for being not just a fantastic book (which it is) but continuing to provide a bright light at the end of a very, very long and dark tunnel that is the Marvel Universe. It is the Marvel of tomorrow if they could just stop with their bullshit. Which, because it’s Marvel, they probably won’t.

But these are just my thoughts and opinions, I’d love to hear from all of you. What did you think of this week? Any good titles I’m not picking up? I’d love to hear from you

#Rena Roundups #Batman Beyond (2016 )#Deadpool (2015 )#Detective Comics (2016 )#Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur (2015 )#Wonder Woman (2016 )

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aion-rsa · 7 years

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INTERVIEW: Snyder On All Star Batman, Collaborators & Future Mysteries

The penultimate issue of “All Star Batman’s” explosive second arc, “Ends Of The Earth,” (that would be issue #8, for those of you playing along at home) goes on sale on Wednesday, March 15, so CBR sat down with writer and Batman guru Scott Snyder for some perspective on the apocalyptic epic.

Unlike the first “All Star” arc, which featured artist John Romita Jr. on each of the five issues and focused predominantly Two-Face, “Ends of the Earth” has been crafted by a revolving cast of superstar talent and villains, with Jock breaking the ice in issue #6 with Mr. Freeze, Tula Lotay coming in on #7 to work with Poison Ivy, and now Giussepe Camuncoli stepping up to the plate with a Mad Hatter-focused story for #8.

RELATED: Bane May Now Be Batman’s Ultimate Arch-Foe

Snyder took the time to share some insights on his process with his collaborators, interests in Bruce Wayne’s psychology, and deeply personal influences on the story, as well as tease some plans for former “Batman” and “We Are Robin” mainstay, Duke Thomas; and the mysterious summer event he’s working on with artist Greg Capullo.

CBR: “Ends of the Earth” has a pretty drastically different tone and cadence than “My Own Worst Enemy” — it feels a bit like going from a Tarantino movie to something a little more David Lynch flavored, especially in this issue. What motivated you to shift gears like this?

Scott Snyder: For me, it’s the point of the series. I think people are starting to see what I was going for with “All Star.” I had such a great time with Greg [Capullo] on “Batman”-proper, and we’re gearing up to do more stuff together and there’s just a sort of bombast to his work — a kind of singular style. He’s so elastic that it allows me to experiment with story, but with “All Star,” I really wanted it to be something that I’d get to look at both the mythos and the villains from completely different angles, and also to be able to use it as a showcase for different artists. So, to challenge myself as a writer to write Batman from all different kinds of prismatic viewpoints, and to make it personal, to do stories that are about now and that matter to me — that was kind of the goal from the beginning.

The arc that’s coming up after this with Rafael [Albuquerque] is going to be kind of singular for those four to five issues, one style, but very different than these four. I want to keep surprising with each one. “Ends of The Earth” has a mode that works with very different artists, it’s about different ways that the world could end, and somebody making an argument to Bruce, saying, “look at the fragility of things right now, you’re just a bedtime story that we tell ourselves to make ourselves feel better, but ultimately everything is tenuous.” [The world] could end in biological warfare like in the Ivy story, natural cataclysm with the Freeze story, and now with Hatter it’s about this descent into subjective madness. It’s the desire I think all of us have to shy away from some of these huge problems because they seem so insurmountable. It’s easier to see the world the way you want, to take information the way you want, to create your own perception.

That’s what the Hatter story is going for. It’s almost as though each villain is presenting a different vision of the fragility of things, and then it all culminates with issue #9.

It seems like you’re going for a record for most villain cameos-per-issue across all of “All Star.” Can you talk about your process working with artists like Giussepe Camuncoli to pick out and design some of these cameos?

Well, part of is just the way “All Star” has been working. I’ll go to an artist in advance and ask them, “Who’s the villain you’ve always wanted to draw?” Most artists say “all of them.” Everyone wants to draw the mainstays and the cave and the Batmobile.

Part of it is making sure that when I talk to them that, when they do pick a villain, that I have a really good story in my head for that villain. Then what I try and do is speak to the strengths — so, for example, if Jock weren’t the one doing Mr. Freeze, I would have set it somewhere else. But since I know what he likes to draw, I know the feel he creates, it allows me to be flexible as a writer.

Here, I knew Giuseppe really wanted to make things feel like a very conventional action comic at the beginning and then have it spiral out of control. He was very clear about picking Dean [White] for colors and Mark [Morales] for inks because he felt they would create this really distorted, painterly feel as things got more and more psychedelic. He wanted to start with it looking very “house” style since he recognizes his own style as sort of conventional-with-flair. He draws Spider-Man, so you know he has that really cool, modern, “Big Two” style — but he can push himself beyond that like you see in some of his indie work.

So, it’s that! It’s talking to each person and figuring out what they want to draw, picking a villain, making sure we have a really good story, and then asking if there are any peripheral things we can fit in organically. If I get a chance to put in the tangential villains and they work with the story I’ll always throw them in.

Issue #8 really zoomed in on Bruce’s issues with identity, which is something you’ve played with recently, before at the end of your run with Greg Capullo. Is there something you’re specifically interested in conveying about Bruce’s layers as a character across these stories?

Oh, totally. It’s something I return to a lot. [His identity] and his mortality, I think, are the twin pillars of the Batman material I like to dig into.

I think the thing that’s fascinating in terms of his identity, when you peel it back, is that it’s insane. I mean, it doesn’t make any sense. It’s the mission of someone who is completely out of their head — and yet it’s heroic and inspiring to us as a folktale. There’s really a very rich vein to mine there where you start to poke [that part] of him.

In this story in particular, what Hatter is trying to say is that everyone in the world right now wants to live in their own head. Everyone wants to put on a hat and skin the world the way they want — see their car differently, their house differently, the spouse differently, whatever it is they want. Everyone wants to lean into that. Batman sees that argument and thinks it’s a terrible thing, we have to see the world the way it is. He’s a detective, he works on empirical evidence, he talks [directly] about the need for transparency.

So Hatter flips that idea on him, asking [Bruce] “You understand that you’re the biggest culprit of this [delusional world view], right?”

The way Hatter actually proposes this to him — that he’s living in an actual, literal fantasy — is likely untrue. But if you step back from it a little, Batman really is living in a sort of fantasy all the time. He’s skinning the world the way he wants to see it; as a place where a vigilante can work and is a hero instead of a villain.

I love that aspect of him, that he exists at this intersection of heroism and pathology. It makes him human.

Let’s talk a little about Duke Thomas, who’s been the focus of the “Cursed Wheel” back up stories for the duration of “All Star.” This issue left him in a bit of a tenuous spot — can you tease what readers should expect to see from Duke and his role in the Bat Family in the future?

Definitely. Duke’s played a big role for us in terms of supporting cast for a while and we want people to get used to seeing him with the Bat Family. I get worried sometimes that throwing somebody into the mix in Gotham without a “home” — no matter how cool the character may be — they can kind of wind up vanishing.

With Duke, it’s about long discussions with Geoff Johns and DC about finding the most viable place to land him. Is putting him in the mantle of a known character of somebody else that exists like a Robin or a Nightwing? Or is it trying something original?

We veered towards the latter, so with the next issue, you’ll see a big change in terms of his status and his mission. It’s going to lead into the story I’m doing with Greg Capullo. [Duke] evolves within that story, and you’ll see his role within the Family really crystallize at the beginning of the event [this summer].

So [the “Cursed Wheel”] is going to end with a bit of a cliffhanger. You’ll see the transformation of him into a character will have a very distinct role in Gotham, and with the rest of the Family; and also reveal things about some mysteries going on around the DC Universe as well.

Any hints as to what his codename might be?

Yeah! Well, it’s all been decided. It’s actually been one of the biggest debates. Everybody has a name they want for him, and they’ve changed as his role has changed.

Here’s what I love about Duke as a character: He’s always believed, as a kind of outsider from the Family, that heroes are independent of their their inspiration. [He believes that] Robin was independent of Batman, and doesn’t “need” him in that way. Similarly, all the other [Gotham] heroes go out at night, Duke is starting to go out by day. The city is very different then. He’s following in the footsteps of his parents that way. So all this starts to crystalize around who he’s going to be.

There have been different names. As he’s evolved, people wanted to call him all kinds of bat terms, but I think we’ve settled on something that works.

I’ve always really liked “Lark” for him, and that name got a little shout-out in this issue.

Yeah, I do too! Not to talk too “inside baseball” here, but the fact is that I’m really interested in giving a new writer [from my class] a chance with him, and an artist. So the concern I had with [the name Lark] was pointed out by DC, which I think is logical. It’s that that name doesn’t have quite the “teeth” for a series. It doesn’t sound…y’know, [Laughs] “Let’s go get ‘em!”

For as much as I like [the name], it needs a little more “muscle,” according to [editorial], and I would agree with that. So, we’ll see! These are the discussions we have long, long talks and lots of things on the board over.

The takeaway from it is this: At this point in my career, it means a lot more to me to try and create new characters and land them in ways that open up avenues for other writers and artists to drive in. I think [Duke] will get new kinds of stories. If he works [solo], nothing would make me happier. If he doesn’t, he’ll always have a home with the Bat Family.

Speaking of side-characters, this issue also included the Blackhawk Squadron, which hasn’t been around for quite some time. They’re a group that carry a lot of history with them. What inspired you to dust them off?

They’re part of a bigger mystery I’m excited to explore. That’s all I can say for them right now.

As a big fan of the more “cerebral” Batman stories, this issue reminded me a lot of Neil Gaiman’s “Whatever Happened To The Caped Crusader” in the ways it called into question the nature of Bruce’s reality. Was that something you had in mind as you wrote this story, or were there any other influences you were calling upon?

Oh, I love that [story], yeah. The stories that I love are always baked into the DNA [of Batman]. For example, “Perchance to Dream” is one of my favorite “Batman: The Animated Series” episodes, so there’s echos of that, there’s echos of “Whatever Happened To The Caped Crusader,” there’s echos of “Arkham Asylum.”

There are a lot of those things in there.

One thing I haven’t really spoken a lot about is that the goal is to make every one of these stories contemporary. So the Two Face arc is very much about the moment when the discourse between all of us has gotten so ugly that, regardless of what side you’re on, you start to question the nature of people; whether people are “darker” than they are “good.” [This moment] influences the way people think of each other, regardless of who you vote for or what side you’re on. “My Own Worst Enemy” is largely about the scariness of that feeling.

What each of the villains [in “Ends of the Earth”] are trying to lead up to is the kind of finale where the [next] villain in issue #9 is like, “Look, this is a time when everything is about to fall apart, and here’s all the ways it can happen.” They’re meant to [represent] those anxieties that are in the air.

But the second thing I’d say to your question is that [these stories] are meant to be personal. One of the things that this story is about is the way it feels when you are not feeling well. For me, having had boughts with depression and anxiety, panic attacks, all those kinds of things, since I’ve been a teenager. In one form or another, [those things have] been a part of my life.

This issue, and the reason I did it all in first person narration, is that I wanted to create the feeling that you are most used to, [the feeling of] being in Batman’s head when it’s clear — a clear window — which is how it feels when you feel well. But when it starts to get panicked, and you start to feel depressed or anxious, that window darkens and pretty soon all you can see is an ugly reflection of yourself. That voice in your head that seemed friendly gets very ugly and you can’t stop it.

That’s the reason this one was in first person narration, when the Ivy issue had no narration, and the Freeze issue had third person storybook narration. It’s part of trying to make them intensely personal on top of being contemporary. That’s one of the real joys of the series, that I can go intimate in terms of my own fears and also speak to some of the things that Batman makes me brave about in terms of the sort of zeitgeist concerns of today.

“All Star Batman” #8 arrives in stores March 15.

The post INTERVIEW: Snyder On All Star Batman, Collaborators & Future Mysteries appeared first on CBR.

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