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shadow-turtle-234 · 2 years

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Reminder to all parties (Lokius, S*lkis)...

YALL ARE HYPOCRITES.

Yes: both Mobius and Sylvie abused Loki during the series. And yes, biphobia and transphobia has increased in this fandom (because of this shit show). However, none of y'all are innocent.

Many S*lkis love to harp on the "wah, you biphobic misogynist! You are mad your gay ship isn't canon!" excuse on Twitter and on here, but in you all are silencing those are female and/or female presenting and/or trans women (who may or may not be bi), as well as other bi folk who found more issues with S*lki. Such as the pro-Autogynephilia messaging Disney/Marvel been pushing (there is literally no way to dance around it, it is autogynephilia. Please stop lying to yourselves - KH, SDM, MW and EM have all revealed their true colors when it comes down to trans people and their views on them. Sophia has blocked trans folk [idk if these people are for either ship] on Twitter who called her out on her transphobia and/or critiquing her and/or her character; and Kate has been outright ignoring and playing innocent to her fucking audience members) by forcing Loki with a female version of himself who is a massive sociopathic bitch, and the actual biphobia is how so many people (either Lokius or S*lki or none) called Loki's sexuality as nothing more than him being frisky til he fell in "true love" with Sylvie (yes, I have seen these horseshit takes. And it needs to stop) and the fact Kate herself said she wasn't going to continue exploring that element of Loki's identity (then again, she never did. Stop praising her for literally doing fuck all), and the incest issue as well as the IPV that Sylvie performs on Loki makes Amber Heard look like a fucking saint.

And, before anyone gets pissy, Mobius is just as bad. Being Waldy's self insert, of course (much like how Sylvie was Katie's), he treats Loki like shit and threatens him with death and tortures him repeatedly throughout the series. However, I myself still enjoy the natural and authentic chemistry between Wilson and Hiddleston, and for me, that makes this ship a little more enjoyable than the former. But, I know just how toxic the Lokius fandom is on Twitter (I mean, Twitter in general is a toxic cest pool owned by Elon Musk now. Are we really surprised?) and they need to learn just to block and ignoring and to not engage in sending threats. If you are by any chance a Lokius shipper who has/planned to send threats - piss off into Hell, rn.

Hell - BOTH parties need to realize that they need to learn just to block and ignore. NOT SEND THREATS (Or you can piss off into hell). This is the problem that both parties are guilty of: sending threats and/or KYS messages to anyone regardless of their shipping stance; hell, even valid criticisms about the show and people who've made them- yeah, they've gotten threats as well. I have seen a few mutals of mine repeatedly be sent death threat after death threat, for posting their opinions ON THEIR BLOG. And it needs to stop.

Also, do not send me death threats for the tags or for the fact that I made this post. Y'all never cared for tagging appropriately (yes - both parties). And the tags aren't for positive only posts.

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ftmwillz · 6 months

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sylvie’s character essentially functions as a narrative device to remind the audience of how loki *would* have reacted to challenges, frustrations, and difficulties in the past

she’s an externalization of everything he is outgrowing, and every conversation they have had this season has driven that point home

the “love triangle” at the center of this season isn’t really about loki’s feelings towards sylvie or mobius, it’s about loki’s internal struggle to grow and become better without betraying his core identity

#despite the way this post opens i swear it is not sylki wank #to be fair i AM a lokius girlie through and through #but i just feel like we’re all missing the point a bit #it has been stated that the entire point of this series is to facilitate loki’s personal growth #loki #loki series #lokius #loki season 2 #loki meta

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lokiinmediasideblog · 7 months

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I think it's so funny when people talk about Loki/Sylvie as though they're the main characters in a love story who are together the whole time when in the show they. Kissed like once, hugged a bit and then immediately fought and had zero romantic interactions since (well i'd even say the interactions were actually very much pointing against much romantic feels, as in Sylvie clearly doesn't wanna see him while his focus on finding her isn't that much of "i need her back" but is closer to "we need her help here since she was in the middle of it all really"). As in, it really shows how much energy people put into finding reasons to hate her instead of just admitting they don't like her and moving on

Yep. It seems to be in the "it's complicated" relationship status for both of them. And the "I need her back" definitely seemed like wanting her help because she was the last person in the citadel. People act like they are all over each other 24/7.

Like I really wouldn't be defending Sylki as much as I have if people hadn't been awful to SdM, KH, and Sylki shippers, and if I didn't constantly hear annoying and obviously misogynistic remarks about Sylvie. And the people that blame her character for all writing decisions they didn't like are fucking annoying.

#ship and let ship #mcu!loki #mcu!sylvie #sylki #fandom wank #anon asks

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musclesandhammering · 9 months

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Pro tip for antis: if their profile picture is the character you’re arguing against, just.. don’t even try lol.

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nostalgia-tblr · 5 months

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Okay actually I do have a proper thought on the "sylki is incest" wank. which is that the "anti" take seems to be that Loki/Sylvie is obviously, glaringly, an incestuous pairing but its shippers deliberately ignore that because they like the pairing otherwise (yet also the accusation involves them liking the incest element... honestly it's a bit of a muddle, but let's move on). But. Well, here's the thing that is obvious, at least to me...

Go to AO3 and have a look to find the most popular (in terms of number of works) Loki pairing in the Marvel Cinematic Universe fandom as a whole. Actually, i'll save you the effort:

(These numbers are slightly out-of-date but the ratios remain accurate. I checked.)

Now, that. That is an incest pairing, isn't it? There is some fic which specifies an AU of some sort in which Thor and Loki are not related to each other but most of it is about brothers who are also lovers.

"But they're not really related," you say? Sorry, but in the important ways, they are. Every one of those films, and the Loki series, frames them as siblings-with-issues, and yes one of those issues is whether or not they agree that they are siblings, but I'd say the MCU comes down pretty firmly on the side of "they totally are."

And the point I'm making here is that the actual incest pairing is treated as such by its fans. If you don't feel up to reading any thorki fic I'll save you again and say that it overall leans into the "forbidden love" angle, and the shame and internal conflict of an incestuous attraction or relationship. So shippers of a given pairing do indeed know what incest is and they rarely try to avoid that aspect of such pairings.

Whereas. If you read the Loki/Sylvie stuff, that whole "thorki vibe" is entirely absent. Fans vary on variants, in terms of in what ways these two are or are not "the same person" but they agree on one thing: fucking some other version of yourself is not incest. This is pretty much a unanimous belief, and here I'll mention something else I think is relevant: there are a few sylki twincest AUs (many of which seem to have been written out of spite - LOL, fandom!) and in all of those the AU also features another crucial change - they are not both Loki variants in those fics.

Yeah, that's right! To make Loki and Sylvie siblings you have to remove the selfcest element entirely. Because - this may shock some of you, so sit down before you read this next part - you are not your own sibling. Even identical twins are obviously different people. A clone of yourself might get us into more philosophical territory but that's not what multiversal variants are either. Allow me to illustrate with another informative image:

You get me? Yeah, you get me.

So, to meander towards an actual conclusion here. The MCU!Loki fandom does not, in general, refuse to accept that romantic/sexual pairings that would be incestuous actually are incestuous. In fact if anything it embraces that element of such pairings. It is usually seen as the defining feature of them. If they think siblings are fucking then they will write about those siblings fucking, and they will not be shy about it!

And aside from that mentioned handful of AU fics, sylki is not written as incest. Because it just isn't incest. Look, if you personally see Loki and Sylvie as siblings to the point where the pairing squicks you out, then fair enough there's not much either of us can do about that. Do your best to avoid that content and don't be a wanker about it and I wish you well in your endeavours. But that isn't what most of the complaints stem from, is it? As usual in recent years fans who didn't like a pairing (which, btw, is allowed) wanted to have the moral high ground and some bright spark hit upon "this pairing is INCEST" via some slightly odd logic and it spread from there. Because we can't just not like something, can we? (Actually, that's also allowed!) No, we have to be better than those fans over there, who are all terrible people in some way. They are problematic.

And this is a lot of words for me to essentially say "no, the sylki fic and the thorki fic have very different vibes actually" but... well, they do. The sylki shippers are not denying the incest, because there is no incest there, and even if we for a moment pretend that "siblings" is a reasonable and indeed expected interpretation of the variants concept, it is clear from their content that the people who ship Loki/Sylvie do not see them that way. And that has nothing to do with DNA or otherwise, which I can prove with this very quick question: in one word (or less, if you can), what is the relationship between Loki and Thor?

You said "brothers" or "siblings," didn't you? No, you did. I know for a fact that you did, don't play coy with me on this. We all understand that these two characters who definitely share no DNA are, in every way that matters, brothers. This is not a difficult concept, it's not somehow confusing large numbers of fans either way.

tl;dr - Sylki isn't incest but if it was we'd all know that because the fans of it would not be constantly denying what would, almost certainly, be the main appeal of that pairing for them if that was the case. You can deny that all you want but 11,731 thorki fics (as of 10th December 2023) back me up on this one.

So there.

#sylki #thorki #loki series #cw: incest #like actually incest WHICH WE ALL RECOGNISE WHEN WE SEE IT DON'T WE JAN???#fandom wank #wow that was a lot of words to state the completely obvious #if anyone's wondering yes i have read and written both sylki and thorki fic. PLEASE be sure to cancel me for the right one.

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bushs-world · 1 year

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When are some people going to understand that a woman's job is not to do the emotional labour for a sad man. A woman's job is not to carry the burden of a man's trauma and to baby over him. I swear the way some people treat grown men like literal babies, while shaming women because they dont fuss about their man 24/7.

And thank God, Sylvie doesn't go around fussing over Loki or pampering poor Loki who suffers from daddy issues. And who is mean because she is a trauma victim, but who cares? Daddy issue Loki deserves all the sympathy while Sylvie is a bitch because so what if she had to live on the run without any family or friends? She's a woman, her only goddamn job is to be miss goody two shoes and take care of poor Loki, fuss over his clothes and wounds, her own issues be damned. Because that's all a woman has to be right?

Sylvie can't feel anger or lose her cool or go down a dark path despite having everything taken away from her coz she's a bitch while poor daddy issues Loki deserves all the sympathy even though he tried committing genocide because duh, daddy issues.

But seriously people hating on Sylvie and calling her mean while woobifying Loki for his daddy issues is always going to be funny. While trauma is never a competition, whatever Loki experienced, Sylvie experienced 10 times worse. But only Loki deserves sympathy.

Why? Duh, misogyny

#loki #sylvie #sylki #loki series #fandom wank

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lowkeyed1 · 1 year

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"the main reason I’m against Sylki is because it’s a ship that does huge damage to the genderfluid community" what

#fandom wank #sylki #loki

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lazy-cat-corner · 2 years

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A valid question I’ve been asking all day. 🤔

#loki #sylvie #sylki #anti nonsense #loki season 2 #fandom discourse #fandom wank #loki series #loki season two #marvel #avengers #mcu #tom hiddleston #sophia di martino

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queen-of-meows · 2 years

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Regarding the arguments around Sylki, I feel like poeple tend to forget the power fantasy rule.

What's empowering you is not necessary empowering others, and the other way around.

For some poeple, self love, or at least self acceptance, can only be achieved as a lonely journey of introspection and self discovery. And that's fine. That's totally okay, good for you.

For other poeple, self love was found in a relationship to other poeple, by realising you can love (platonically or romantically) and forgive others for things you couldn't forgive yourself. And ultimately, that you deserve the love and forgiveness you grant to others. It's also perfectly fine. It doesn't make your experience weaker or codependant. Human beings are social creatures.

I think fandom spaces, and life in general, would be a lot better if we all remember every person have their own experiences IRL that drive them to find solace is different fictional tropes.

#sylki #fandom wank

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neyafromfrance95 · 6 months

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i'm so sorry to see that you're being vagueposted about for your sylki takes. it may be true that how you see sylki is a bit different than a certain section of the fandom, but that doesn't at ALL mean that you shouldn't be allowed to have your own takes! fwiw, i followed you bc i actually agree with and really enjoy ur perspective on sylki. i was getting frustrated with how many people seem to view this ship in a super heteronormative way and want sylvie to basically become a housewife, and i was so glad to find a blog that felt the same way. this fandom has become tiring tbh with how many people are now freaking out that sylvie hasn't immediately started having lokis babies in s2, and i really wish that people would at least leave room for others to have their own opinions!

this! that section of sylki shippers do not leave any room for you to have your opinions! they act like a fanon police controlling what you say in your posts on your blog!

and god forbid that what you say opposes their own hcs and takes, if you commit this unforgivable sin of having a take that is different from theirs, you better be ready for some good old online group harassment! they will make you feel like you are not welcome in this fandom, they will make sure that you are hurt, they will alienate you and force you out!

but no, you are the bad guy for jokingly calling a fandom in general "vanilla" and saying (after several disclaimers that it's your personal opinion) that when it comes to canon, you don't think that sylvie should be all about being loki's housewife.

at this point i honestly hate this fandom. there are some decent sylkis out there and i love the ship itself, but a big portion of the fandom has simply sucked all the joy for the series out of me. i wonder if they realize what the consequences of their behavior could be? back when i said (in my blog) that i don't think sylvie having babies is a compelling completion of her story in canon, and this bunch came to my blog to harass me for my takes, i was in a very *very* bad place already, and the space that was supposed to be my escape pretty much turned on me and added up to an already depressing state i was in.

and bfr anyone says that it's just a fandom wank, let me tell you that these people know how to be really cruel, whether they realize it or not, their behavior is simply cruel. they don't just argue in favor of their opinion, they shit on you personally, get aggressive towards you personally, make you feel like you "can't sit with them", ect. it gets really creepy and ugly.

and the thing is, i never addressed anyone specific in my posts, i never said *this* person and *that* person have shitty hcs/takes, i never even vaguely hinted at a distaste towards the hcs/takes of someone specific, but they accuse me of pointing fingers. when i said that i didn't think canon sylvie having babies would work, i never said anything about sylki babies in fanfiction, yet people accused me of pointing fingers at the fic writers. and they would come to my blog, harass me in the replies and asks, and talk about how despicable i am in their own blogs, and it went on and on for a while.

thanks for your nice words, anon, they are uplifting. and to those who can't stand me so much, don't worry, i'm going to leave this fandom once the series is finished. i hope you are satisfied that being a shitty, gatekeeping, narrow-minded, egocentric person worked for you! but don't ever feel entitled to complain about how lokius shippers treat you.

#asks #sylki #sylvie laufeydottir #loki #i regret ever getting invested in this fandom i really really regret it #learn from my mistakes my friends #unfortunately a lot of your mutuals aren't actually your friends #they are going to turn your time in the fandom into hell if you dare to voice your unpopular opinion/hc on your own blog!#i had mutuals harass me and ppl i thought as friends not come to my aid bc of nonexistent sylki babies lmao #anyways anyways #you win! good job at forcing the last sylki who has unpopular takes/hcs out of the fandom!#you could have just muted or blocked me but i guess it was your duty to make sure it was clear that sylki fandom hates me!#oh & thank you for destroying my desire to ever read a sylki fic vanilla or not bc i can't be sure that it's not written by someone who #felt so insecure bc of my hcs that they decided to ruin the fandom experience for me!#mf i never insulted your fic i'm sure i have never even read it i was simply ranting about what i would like to read in case there was #someone wondering if there would be an audience for that sort of thing #and i never told you not to hc sylki/sylvie a certain way when i ranted on my blog how i don't think housewife!sylvie would work in canon!#but deep down you know that you just don't want anyone to have a different hc/take #again don't worry! you won! hope you are happy!#actually you managed to destroy my desire to be in any fandom ever! i should replace fandom with grass-touching bc maybe the lack of said #grass-touching is the reason some of you think everything is about you and targets you and your precious hcs #god i just cant stop thinking regretful i am for getting invested in this fandom when so many shippers turned out so hypocritical bad peopl #maybe one good thing that may come out of this is some poor soul reading it and getting a reality check regarding twitter/tumblr fandoms #DON'T GET ATTACHED THESE PPL WILL HARASS YOU AND HURT YOU OVER MADE-UP BABIES #it's not worth it! prioritize your mental health!#i have wasted so much of my time defending sylkis from the antis here & on twt only to have the majority of them turn on me #i want my time back god i really want all that wasted time back #why are you mfs sending me angry asks i told u that u won i'm leaving this fandom what more do u want from me?!#im not wasting my life in the fandom where the mfs would harass a real person bc of their parasocial relationship with hc babies #be content with hurting and forcing a person out of the fandom bc u took smtng that wasn't targeted at u too personally

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mareebird · 9 months

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Seen a lot of wank already today, so just a few happy little reminders:

I love Sylvie and I'm a Sylki shipper.

But I love Mobius, too. You might even see me occasionally reblog things that fall under the category of Lokius. Or see me reblog things that could be anti Lokius. Or even anti Sylki. I just hit reblog when I like something and I don't worry much about it.

That said, I don't actually ship Lokius and prefer them as friends. I try not to engage in ship wars. BUT I do get pretty annoyed when I see sexist nonsense about Sylvie that crosses the line.

So unfollow me now if you're not okay with me having a healthy approach to fandom.

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ichabodcranemills · 9 months

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Loki fandom wank below:

oh look, it’s started already.

You know a real damage done to a bisexual and genderfluid person (aka me)? By this show? It was the weird Sylki haters hurling all sorts of biphobic comments my way, people attacking my gender identity (right when I was beginning to figure myself out) and even implying I wasn’t a person of colour (for reasons I have yet not understood), the accusations of incest shipping (thrown even against incest victims who several times mentioned how triggering that was) and of course all the suicide baiting, personal attacks on Sophia, Kate Heron and even Natalie Holt and all around derangement.

Look, this show isn’t perfect. It had pitiful queer rep. But for fucks sake, have an actual debate about genderfluidity on a space appropriate for it, instead of getting shouty at people who liked to see two fictional characters kissing when they happened to not be the two fictional characters you wanted to see kissing.

#and before anyone says ‘this isn’t about ships’: grow up. yes it is. it’s been two years just stop it #fandom wank

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lokiinmediasideblog · 6 months

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The lokius and sylki shippers going at it are like those two ppl in the avatar episode the great divide (which btw was a horrible episode but meme)

LOL. I am multishipper , but I end up joining the Sylkis often because the Sylvie hate is excessive (For ship reasons and otherwise). I remember that episode.

#lokius #sylki #fandom wank #loki series #anon asks #mcu!sylvie

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musclesandhammering · 7 months

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If shippers are making you this pissed off, you need to stop interacting with them instead of being so fucking negative.

And if seeing negativity makes you pissed off enough to anonymously (lmao) send me a message about it, you need to adjust your filters accordingly to avoid posts that are specifically tagged as anti from blogs that have anti right in the name 🤷‍♀️

#and I don’t interact with them #I have the ship tags blocked on here but half of the time y’all don’t even have the tumblr etiquette to tag your ships #and there’s not really any way to avoid stuff like that on Twitter aside from blocking everyone that posts shipping stuff (which I do)#and as I a rule I don’t get pissed off about fictional stuff in my real life #this is a hobby #these websites are for consuming and discussing media for entertainment #and sometimes that includes being critical of parts of media #and if you’re one of those fans that’s so childish that you can’t handle anyone ever being negative about the Thing you like #well then #maybe find a children’s version of this app? idk what to tell you #anons like you annoy the hell out of me #and the fact that you’re such a scaredy ass weirdo that you do it on anon? lol #lord have mercy #anon #fandom wank #anti lokius #anti sylki #antisylki #loki series negativity #loki

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bushs-world · 2 years

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Saw this post on my dash and well this submitter got a lot of things wrong. So let me correct it.

'Sylvie is a well written, complex character and the hate towards Sylvie is completely dripping with misogyny and sexism'

*on a side note, the submitter definitely had a sly way of calling Sylvie trash

How you may ask? Well, let me explain.

So, the first part. Is Sylvie a badly written character?

To answer that question, we first need to understand what a well written character looks like (x). Well, to save time the linked articles gives 5 parameters of a well written character that are

1. They have a clear motivation

2. They are consistent

3. Their habits come from their backstory

4. They have got little flaws

5. They balance other characters - and other characters balance them.

And, well Sylvie fulfills all 5 parameters.

Sylvie has a clear motivation - killing the timekeepers and then killing the man behind the curtain (and she even has a valid reason of her motivation - she wants revenge against the person who took her life away)

She is consistent - all throughout the series, she single minded moves towards her goal

Her actions come from her backstory- in Sylvie's case, her entire identity comes from her backstory. Her backstory causes her to reject the identity of a Loki and adopt the name Sylvie. Being on the run and hiding in apocalypses causes her to become cynical and develop trust issues)

She has little flaws - in her case a major flaw. She has trust issues and lashes out when she feels threatened. She can't look past her revenge.

She and Loki balance each other - both of them are equally matched and complement each other. Loki is more powerful magic user, Sylvie is better in physical combat.

So, now how the hell is Sylvie a badly written character. She is a rich, complex, three dimensional, morally grey character (x). But sure she is going to look like a badly written character when antis go ahead and erase her entire backstory and her trauma, straight up lie or misinterpret her actions and intentions, deny parts where she contradicts their opinions and take her actions at face value, then blow it all up in epic proportions to portray her as a straight up evil character.

Now, the misogyny part. Well not only is the hatred towards Sylvie misogynist. But this hatred translates to misogynist hate towards poor Sophia as well. Sure this isn't misogyny right?

But still let me point out the hypocrisy and double standards regarding Sylvie. And let me use our beloved Loki as an example.

EXHIBIT A

Loki- Sends destroyer after Thor to stop him, then provoking him for a fight

Well, he was having a mental breakdown (which he was, no jokes here) and he just wanted to finally vent out after suppressing his feelings for so long

Sylvie - Fights with Loki after he comes in between and tries to stop her from accomplishing the one thing she wanted so badly. And in her mind betrayed her because they were supposed to take down the man behind the curtain together.( Now I know Loki was valid in his points and Sylvie was blind with rage. But the key here is to try and see things from Sylvie's pov)

She is a narcissistic abuser. She lashed out at Loki after he didn't agree with her. Even her stance is that of an abuser (like whatever happened to her drive to revenge and Loki getting in the way?)

EXHIBIT B

Loki - Tries to commit genocide of Jotunheim

Well it was his internalised racism. He so wanted to distance himself from his jotun heritage, he decided to completely destroy an entire planet and exterminate an entire race.

Sylvie - Kills minutemen, the literal people who abducted her, erased her reality, hunted her like a dog for years before forcing her to hide in apocalypses and are still pruning countless innocent timelines and people

She is a villian who killed innocent (very innocent) TVA workers and she couldn't show any compassion towards them even after finding they are variants (as if they showed her lots of compassion when they hunted her). But yeah, this one is interesting because of the assumption that Sylvie should care about them even after they took away her entire life and tried to kill her and hunted her all her life because she is a woman?? Gender roles anybody?? But also what about her scene with B15? Oh yes, either it never happened or Sylvie was being a smug bitch.

So to sum it up, Loki learning about his adoption is a very traumatic incident and it resulted in his fall in Thor. And his actions are justified because he was in a bad place or was never wrong in the first place.

But Sylvie's trauma over being abducted, displaced and forced to live on the run in apocalypses isn't worth anything. Her flaws, her insecurities, the reasons behind her actions are totally erased and Sylvie is painted and vilified only. Because how dare she be imperfect? She is a woman. Either she has to be Ms goodytwoshoes. Or she is an evil villian who is trash.

So , in the end, dear submitter. Sylvie isn't a badly written character. You make her one in your head to cover up your misogyny and sexism. And btw Sylvie isn't the only one who is a target of sexism. TVA Loki or my beloved Larry is also mocked and ridiculed because he no longer displays the toxic masculinity traits which so many people confuse for superiority.

#loki #Sylvie #loki series #loki laufeyson #sylvie laufeydottir #sylki #fandom wank

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girlcalledwhatsername · 2 years

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Mobius is the self-insert

I had totally forgotten about this but it's a conversation I had with a friend early in the show. We immediately liked Mobius so much and realised it was because he's literally a fan-insert fantasy of sorts. He knows everything about Loki but Loki knows nothing about him. Like us. He views it all on the screen too with, of course, all footage from the same films we watched, nothing less nothing more, that was bound to be but it adds to the fact that Mobius has the same knowledge and perspective as people who watched the MCU films. He plays it cool about all this vulnerable information he has while also showing Loki a road to acceptance and a kind of support he hasn't had before. Another very common characterisation with self inserts or OCs (no shame there tho, i enjoy those stories too they all serve a different purpose). Mobius was very much the fantasy of Reader Who Knows Things About Loki And Wants To Show Him The Light, and again, I liked him for that reason too. It's so odd to me though people kept insisting that Sylvie is the self insert character because she's female-presenting.

Anyway this is a multishipping zone, i haven't made a Loki post in ages to avoid that exact fandom wank, don't come here to make shipping into activism, i bite.

(p.s, also just realised that the thing about Loki was that every character went through a redemption arc because they were all doing shitty stuff and then thought "what if we didn't do this?")

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