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charcubed · 2 years

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A lot of people refer to Cas as "gay," which I think is awesome and everything. But I personally always considered him more as "queer" for a number of reasons, such as:

angel genders and vessels are very fluid. Would he still be considered "gay" if he were in a female vessel, and in love with Dean? Also, there are several times in the series where Cas appears to be attracted to women (some ppl don't consider these moments valid for Reasons™ which is fine. But I do.) He also seems, in my opinion, to only be romantically interested in Dean, and I think this would be true if Dean were female. So that would make Cas closer to demi.

Point is, I recently saw a post on sm that was like "reminder: Cas is GAY. He's not bi, pan, or unlabeled, he's gay and that's not negotiable."

I consider myself queer and a huge Cas fan, so it was weird to see my interpretation of a character I know really well and relate to just be invalidated like that.

And I just kind of wanted you opinion, cuz I know like in Dean's case, seeing him as anything other than bi is pretty clearly against canon.

But is the same true for Cas? Is it wrong to see him as an umbrella "queer?" I know Misha calls him gay, which I love and respect, but I don't really let my interpretations be dictated by actor opinions. I feel like canon supports a much more fluid interpretation of Cas, but I'm just wondering if I'm wrong for that, in terms of what canon supports.

Anyway, sorry for the long post. Thanks for your thoughts in this fandom I love them

Hi!! Thank you for the nice words and for wanting to know my thoughts on this. I appreciate you :)

Sorry it took me over a week to finish this. I kind of started it, realized it was probably gonna be longer than I’d expected, and then added to it in pieces when off work so as not to half-ass it.

Also, I want you to know that I think you absolutely rock for this message. The fact that you have a strong personal interpretation or strong feelings about what your view of Cas' sexuality means to you, while being open to hearing arguments for what canon supports, is exactly the kind of nuance too many people in fandom lack. Huge fuckin shout out to you, anon, because this takes both guts and brain cells!

I have two primary threads of thought I'm going to address here, as well as how they criss-cross:

I agree that Cas' canon sexuality is a slightly different topic than Dean's canon sexuality. Dean's bisexuality is not unclear/unambiguous, and there's no wiggle room there; he's frequently attracted to women, he's frequently attracted to men, there's bi lighting, it's all not rocket science. Cas is a bit more ~ambiguously queer~, so advocating for fandom maintaining a unanimous hard stance on his canon sexuality is... a little trickier. In that vein, the "reminder" post you mentioned seeing feels too intense in my opinion for the nature of this particular conversation/topic.

That being said: from an analytical standpoint, I do think the strongest argument to be made based on canon is that Cas is gay and demi.

Since you seem open to it and asked for my thoughts overall, I'm gonna break down point 2 before circling back to point 1. Quick reminder/disclaimer that I'm not trying to invalidate you or your personal connection to Cas with anything I'm about to say, so please keep that in mind <3

You mentioned how some people don't consider Cas' moments of being attracted to women as ~being valid~ and said you disagree. That's fair! At the same time... in a nuanced fashion, that's where I land on it. I also think the show took care to ultimately build to and portray a full picture with all of that factored in, and to talk about that I kinda gotta go into detail here, because it's one part of a bigger piece. I’m not trying to turn this into a comprehensive meta deep dive, so I’m going to talk about this in a sort of summarized way but not go too far into breaking down any one point or analyzing any one scene. Hope that’s cool.

Let’s look at Cas’ biggest “moments,” as it were, with women. Or the ones I would guess people intend to reference.

First up: there’s Meg. We’ve got the “pizza man" season 6 kiss, the season 7 arc of Meg watching over Cas during his mental break, and season 8 when Meg sacrifices herself.

The season 6 "pizza man" kiss, to me, really plays into the overall mood of Cas' curiosity as he explores and tries to understand human behavior. He watched porn and was intrigued/confused/aroused, Meg kissed him partially to get at his angel blade (not a euphemism lmao), and then his curiosity kicked in so he kissed her more thoroughly because the opportunity was there. Those scenes are all connected, and he doesn’t have much of a reaction after the kiss. Then, season 7 is a whole suitcase to unpack, but… the bottom line there is that Meg treated Cas with decency when he was vulnerable in every sense of the word. And then in season 8, Cas undeniably had a fondness for Meg by the end, and they were friends... but I don't read it as him having an attraction to her or romantic feelings for her. I do not mean this as shade or hate to anyone who ships them, but my reading on that dynamic overall is that I do think Meg felt something for Cas in terms of both attraction and feelings; and while that makes it all a bittersweet tragedy, it also doesn't mean things were reciprocally non-platonic. She was into him, but he seemingly wasn’t into her in the same way. After Meg’s death, Cas also never asks about her or mentions her or has any reaction at all to her being gone–something that would have been very easy for them to incorporate with even one mention if they'd wanted to or considered it foundational. (For example, mentions of Dean's relationship with Benny are recurring throughout the show, lending its non-platonic nature and its significance for establishing bi Dean even more weight.) Season 8 Megstiel content is also placed narratively right up against the Destiel content, and the contrast of that is–of course–pretty stark. That was likely deliberate. Cas’ feelings for Dean are unavoidably, unmistakably at the forefront.

Then you've got season 9. A newly human Cas–who was given the heteronormative suggestion by Metatron to "Find a wife. Make babies."–gets seduced then killed by April, all of which is traumatizing dubious consent galore. Then you’ve got Cas thinking he's being asked out on a date by a woman in 9x06 as he’s trying to figure out his life as a human. He even says this explicitly to Dean: “Going on dates… that's something humans do, right?” He is doing what he thinks he’s meant to be doing as a human, but is that action based in genuine desire? That line implies the answer being no. Contextually this is, of course, set against the jilted lover vibes he has with Dean in that episode. And then in the season at large, Cas becomes focused on his overall mission–a search for purpose, which (as Metatron helpfully points out later) becomes oriented around saving Dean.

Season 10 is up next. Hannah is very clearly interested in Cas, but Cas is a giant question mark in the face of all of her interest pretty consistently. In all honesty, the way Hannah comes onto Cas—the construction of the scenes—feels like it was intended to show that Cas isn’t interested in women. Half the time he doesn’t clock her vibes, and the other half the time he awkwardly avoids acknowledging it. This culminates in her standing in front of him naked in the clearest signal she can give… and as he says, he’s ~not bothered~ by it. He’s just... well, he's gay. Lmfao. And speaking of the naked Hannah scene in 10x07, something I personally find highly amusing is that that naked scene is immediately followed by Dean enthusiastically making out with a woman. It’s a smash cut with a very pointed contrast, in my opinion! I was very struck by it.

So that's my mini tour (with imperfect recall) of Cas' Moments With Women in the story and how I feel they're positioned.

And to touch upon the idea of contrast a bit further… With Dean, there are ample moments and instances where he canonically expresses (joyful or uncomplicated) sexual attraction to women, and/or romantic love for women throughout the show. This is why his canonical attraction to women should never be in question, as part of his bisexuality. But with Cas... I don’t personally feel we have a scene of his where we can unequivocally say the same. There are always story elements at play that indicate complex motivation, or when a woman (or woman-shaped being? lol) may be interested in him there doesn’t seem to be genuine reciprocal interest on his part. The absence of a clear scene establishing he’s unequivocally attracted to women doesn’t mean he couldn’t hypothetically be… but there are no significant moments that convince me that that’s the case in canon. Instead, I think the picture these layered moments paint of Cas and his sexuality is solidified as the story progress–as part of how his sense of self solidifies and emerges story-wide in kind. By that I mean: the shades of how he reacts to Hannah are there in his reactions to Meg’s interest years prior, but in season 10 they feel more clear because by that point he understands himself better (especially after his time as a human) and has formulated his identity as a person more than he had, for example, in season 6.

The secondary part of this though is the queercoding attached to Cas–which is, by and large, gay coding. (There is also more contrast here in comparison to Dean's bi coding in that regard.) By “gay” coding, I mean… Dean describes Cas as having "sensible shoes,” which is gay slang/code, though more commonly used in reference to lesbians. Cas uses female pop artists for his aliases, which is a wink/nod to stereotypes of gay men—a pattern that’s established in later seasons concurrently to the Destiel narrative taking even deeper root. The specific micro-agressions (and outright aggressions) Cas is subjected to by others—as he's clocked as being an outsider who doesn't fit and for being in love with Dean, in ways that are often tangled together—are traditionally gay story devices at play. And I'm also fond of the seeming significance of Cas' conversation with Pastor Joe in 15x15. Cas asks the Pastor what he means by people of "all backgrounds," being welcomed, and the Pastor says, "Connor didn't have to live in fear of who he was. A gay man who believed in a tolerant God." And Cas says, "Well, I imagine not everyone was happy with the change."

In terms of why I say he’s also demi… Cas is seemingly never ~interested~ in anyone but Dean. Now, part of that is of course a byproduct of the storytelling structures he's given. But nonetheless, his singleminded focus on / interest in / devotion to Dean feels unwavering in its totality. Even as Dean stops looking to date other people in later seasons because he knows he’s fallen in love with Cas, there’s still references to or nods to his attraction to men and women as a significant part of who he is. But unless I’m forgetting things, Cas just… doesn’t really seem to have that embedded into his character. He's got an emotional attachment to (and "profound bond" with) Dean, and his attraction to and love for Dean is part of its natural extension. That’s where the demi reading comes in for me, but it’s certainly a side note / asterisk to him being gay, which I think is the prime part of his identity the text deliberately points towards overall.

Regarding Cas' gender and how that may affect any part of this discussion... Is Cas non-binary? Well, in the show overall, angels are obviously considered ~celestial wavelengths of intent~. We see the fluidity of angels in different gendered vessels, and one could say the angels' primary gender is sort of "genderless" as default. Sure. But... at minimum, I feel it's implied that Cas comes to feel at home in a male vessel's body, and in what has legitimately become his body. As Dean says, "It's not an 'it,' Sam. It's Cas." And ultimately, I feel the gender question is not really a huge part of the point in regards to how canon presents this queer story to us.

To the question of if Cas would still be "gay" if he was in a female vessel and fell in love with Dean–or even to a question of "what if Dean was a woman" I've seen plenty of other people pose in various contexts–I think it's almost like... a moot point. The homoeroticism of Dean and Cas' dynamic is significant in a multilayered way, and that was true from day one. Their dynamic is very much affected by and built on them being 2 masculine men (or Cas being perceived as a "man" if you want to go that route), both in story and out of it, particularly in Dean's reactions to Cas. And the romance, tension, push-and-pull, miscommunication, coding, and censorship–the latter being a thing that shaped story choices over the years–all exist in a specific way because their relationship is undeniably, visibly queer. Destiel as we know it could not and would not be the same if one of them was in a perceived woman's body. Their interactions would have been vastly different, and thus in my head it's impossible to conceptualize.

Supernatural is also very much a story about the deconstruction of toxic masculinity while maintaining masculinity through a queer lens. This is its own separate topic that I actually have been wanting to make a post about for awhile now (in part because over-feminization of their characters in fandom, especially in ways that lead to apply ill-fitting repression narratives to Dean's canon, can miss several points about this). Those masculinity themes are so centralized because of Dean and Cas' romance and the fact that they are two men. There is significance there, both historically and culturally.

So while maybe Cas would or could identify as non-binary... It doesn't seem like a viewpoint he is particularly aligned with, and it also doesn't feel like a significant element at play in this queer love story. That makes me tip towards saying it's not a huge factor in discussions of exact readings or terminology for Cas' canonical sexuality/identity.

As a side note: to a certain extent, I also find it interesting to contemplate how some of their miscommunication in-narrative maybe extends into the idea that Dean is attracted to women and Cas seems not to be. More than once, Dean tries to bond with Cas through ~typical male~ interests, such as when he takes him to a strip club. Dean being bi doesn't mean he avoids having heteronormativity on the brain lol, and that sort of thing in his experience is usually quick-and-easy guy bonding time, especially in hunting culture. But while Cas learns how to be human in a metaphorical sense from the Winchesters' examples in several ways (both the good and the bad habits/lessons), something he can't/doesn't pick up is attraction to women or how to act on or express that sort of attraction, because it just doesn't seem innate to him. So while Dean and Cas are certainly both queer, to me they exhibit different forms of queer experiences (bi and gay) in characteristics and in story and in coding that add a layer to their dynamic. It's a little bit of a difference between them that they maybe don't know how to awkwardly address with each other, because they often don't fucking communicate, and I can see it contributing to Dean wondering if / how much Cas has capacity to "feel that way"... making him think Cas maybe doesn't reciprocate his desire. Because they're both stupid.

Anyway! Anyway.

Back to the main points:

Let me summarize.

I personally don't think Cas is attracted to women, and that the story points to him going through a journey of learning that about himself as he grows into himself over time. The queercoding in connection to him, such as it is, also rings of being gay coding. Considering we see him primarily or solely so strongly interested in Dean, an argument/hypothesis for him being demi doesn't feel off the mark. And I don't think the question of angelic gender is super relevant to what canon points to in this discussion for Cas specifically, because I do think the m/m nature of Destiel is relevant to their story and dynamic with each other, and by later seasons at minimum Cas is seemingly comfortably "a man" (perhaps even more so than an ambiguously gendered Being).

Is there a stronger or more persuasive argument to be made about the specifics of Cas' sexuality in canon? I'd be open to hearing it, of course, but I just kind of doubt any other argument would be convincing enough to change my mind when factoring in all of the story elements at play.

However. All of this being said:

I would certainly not call an umbrella use of the word "queer" wrong for Cas. I think it is, in fact, very applicable! For one thing, the word "queer" in this instance effectively encompasses a combined gay and demi reading, as an example. For another thing, it's an understandable hat tip that simplifies his various complexities as an angel. It works.

I'm also not die-on-this-hill militant about the use of the word "gay" for Cas because I'm cognizant of how things are not 100% clearcut with him. I do not say this to negate my own analysis, but rather because I can acknowledge the truth of this particular situation. While I do think the above full picture kind of adds up to him being specifically gay, this is an instance where there is room for nuance within it and giving grace to–dare I say it–"interpretations." I personally don't really agree with or particularly feel comfortable considering him bi or pan specifically, given all the factors at play; but it doesn't overtly upset me that others do. For example, he did indeed have sex with April as a human, and I find I can't get mad at people who choose to take his interest in that moment 100% at face value, especially considering the fact that what I view to be his overall "gay arc" certainly has subtlety and room for subjectivity in it.

In conclusion,

I don't know if this post answers all your questions, anon. I don't know if it will help you or make you feel bad for some reason, though I certainly hope it's the former rather than the later! And I apologize for the length, but you touched on a lot of different branches in your message, and I'm nothing if not someone who maps out a whole fucking tree when asked to lmfaaaoooo.

Thank you for your patience as this post took me WAY too long to complete smh. Like what the hell, truly. You're a star, I love ya, and for what little it's worth I do infer that lots of people in fandom (perhaps even Misha) use "gay" as an umbrella word in reference to Cas. (I am sympathetic to your plight if that makes you feel weird though; it's not the same situation by any means, but I will share that I'm suspicious of people who call Dean "gay" even flippantly at this point, because nowadays I don't trust that shit lmao)

Send me thoughts and prayers because the "e" key on my laptop's keyboard has started periodically sticking and it's been driving me insane while working on writing this.

#castiel #supernatural #castiel meta #gay cas #?¿?#this is long enough it warrants tags. fuck it #anonymous #asks #char writes things #spn meta #destiel

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