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#yes it's morally wrong and very much illegal
merakiui · 1 year
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some thoughts about jade leech as a stalker.
(cw: yandere, nsfw, stalking, unhealthy behaviors/relationship, obsession, mentions of death/strangulation)
Jade does not love often. In fact, he has a rather small supply of love, which is reserved for his hobbies and family, so when he loves something other than those two things it can only mean trouble. When Floyd has something special and doesn’t share... Well, naturally Jade’s going to want it. He’s never been inherently greedy. Rather, he’s always let Floyd have everything: the larger half of a bluefin tuna, the shinier stone, the bigger seashells, the slice of cake with more frosting, his uniforms whenever Floyd’s were dirtied or damaged. And in return Floyd has, for the most part, shared his things with Jade. This has always been their normal. 
But this time Floyd makes no mention of sharing when it comes to you. In the past, when they were particularly interested in someone, they would share them. Or, in other words, torment that person in equal succession. Azul has been their prime target for years now, and it doesn’t look like either of them will stop their relentless pursuit in seeing how fast they can get Azul to grouse or groan or sigh. You might think they live to see Azul’s misery, but truthfully they want to accompany Azul as he carves misery into the hearts of the poor, unfortunate souls who thought it wise to do business with deep-sea beasts. Teasing him is just a bonus. 
When it comes to you, Floyd is his usual authentic self: blunt and honest to a fault, dangerously so. But that’s what makes his twin so fun. Floyd won’t sugarcoat the obvious. If he dislikes you, he’ll make it known. Jade, on the other hand, will speak syrupy sweet lies in an effort to maintain proper goodwill, even if he detests you. You’ve never really interested Jade, so he can’t say he hates you. But he can’t say he loves you either. To him, you are just a powerless human in a habitat that does not suit you. Really, even with all of the tricks and traps you pulled to beat Azul at his own game, you remained boring to him. He didn’t pay you much mind after everything had been resolved and you’d been free to return to Ramshackle. That should have been the end of his story with you. 
But then, some time later, you start to make frequent appearances at the lounge. It doesn’t take Jade long to learn that you only show up when Floyd’s on shift, and it also doesn’t take him long to theorize that you might have fallen for his brother’s unique charms. It’s sweet, in a way, how Floyd lights up when he sees you, how you smile a little more brightly when he speaks to you, how your laughter is so very buoyant when Floyd lifts you into the air and spins you happily. Jade’s content to watch from the sidelines, pleased to know that his brother has found a friend in you. That might make it easier to trick you into a contract.
He’s so set in this way of thinking, only viewing you as a pawn or a stepping stone towards some bigger end goal. But when Floyd brings you back to the dorm and you become more than a constant in Jade’s life, he starts to wonder what makes you so special. What is it about you that has his brother so enamored? What makes you irresistible? What parts of you are appealing? Jade thinks it might be how quick it is you submit when Floyd’s got you pinned into the mattress, face first, rough hands spreading your thighs apart, so he can sink into you more easily. Floyd likes that; he likes the weak things that crumble under him. He likes to push things to breaking. He likes to mark and bite and bloody and bruise and shred.
Jade likes to fix. He likes to mend, and then break, and then mend all over again. He likes the process, the psychological science behind a simple gesture, much like how he takes great pleasure in playing god over the plants in his terrariums. They say a budding serial killer starts small—with animals like rabbits or squirrels or cats. Jade starts with plants. He’ll put them in stressful environments—in soils with nutrients that don’t quite work—and he’ll watch them wilt, mottle, mold, and decay. He’ll watch them struggle to adapt, he’ll watch them yearn for water or sunlight, and only when he’s certain they’ve had enough he’ll give them proper, healthy care. It’s fun, the way he has so much control over something as dynamic as a plant. But plants cannot protest, cannot fight back, cannot act in the same way humans do. 
But it’s quite satisfying to pluck dried petals from a withered flower, almost like a morbid game of effeuiller la marguerite, and not hear a single scream.
So Jade is fully expecting Floyd to tire of you, to break you enough until boredom sinks its fangs into him and he moves on with his life. And what Floyd breaks Jade fixes, so he’s very ready to glue your heart together when Floyd shatters it. He’s ready to offer a handkerchief and his ear should you need to vent. He’s already prepared his speech: “I must apologize on behalf of Floyd. You know very well how he gets. If I can be of assistance in any way, please let me know.”
Unfortunately, you remain intact. Months pass, Floyd continues to love you, and your relationship unfolds like a lotus in early morning. Jade continues to observe. Floyd has never been one for privacy, so he’s seen every kiss, every bite, every inch of exposed skin. Hell, he’s sat at his desk and tallied Mostro Lounge’s monthly expenses while Floyd fucked you dumb on the other side of the room. He’s even made eye contact with you when you happened to gaze his way while his twin was buried balls-deep in that tight hole of yours. He wonders what goes on in that head of yours. Perhaps there’s nothing substantial within. Floyd’s scrambled your brains enough, so you could just be useless now. Though that wouldn’t be very fun, would it? He knows there’s more to you than you let on, especially when you play top and take every inch of Floyd, riding him so skillfully, and all Floyd can do is dig his fingers into your hips to guide you along to the rough, erratic pace the both of you have set. 
Jade watches fondly from the shadows. Floyd likes to have access to your neck and shoulders; he likes to take you from behind while leaning down to bite into soft flesh. But Jade thinks it would be much nicer to gaze upon your face, to kiss salt from your eyes, to pepper your jawline with tiny pecks, all while peering into eyes that house a beautiful soul. He thinks it would be nice to hold you down, have your legs wrapped around his waist or thrown up onto his shoulders, while he bottoms out. If it were Jade, he’d take you in every position, but he’d find the most pleasure in eye contact. There’s something intimate about it, much like how there’s intimacy in the hands that wrap around a throat. You have to be close to someone when you’re restricting their airflow; you have to squeeze until veins pop, until your hands are sore, until your fingernails have burrowed so deeply into skin that the crescent moons color crimson. It takes minutes to strangle someone, and every minute is spent staring into the wide, terrified eyes of a desperate soul on the verge of death.
Jade likes the way you smell, the way you speak, the way you laugh, the way you are, in every meaning of the word, so very filled with life. Even down to the way you breathe and gasp and moan and cry, you are life itself. Jade wants to bottle that for himself—pluck you from Floyd’s flower pot and place you in a terrarium with the most potent elements just to see how long you’d fare. He wants to save you from those same conditions, sandwich your face between gloved hands when he’s kneeled to your lowered height, and whisper about how it’s okay, about how you’re safe, about how he’d never truly hurt you. Jade knows that loving someone is a very special thing, but the way he loves you is not quite pleasant. The love he has for his hobbies and family is natural. Normal. Simplistic and familial. 
The love he has for you is murderous and frightening. Some days he looks at you like you’re prey he’s not yet devoured. Like you’re to be his first victim. 
Jade starts small. He takes tiny trinkets—a keychain, a pencil, an accessory. He stores these in a shoe box under his bed. When Floyd brings you over and clothes are cast aside, he swipes your undergarments for himself. He won’t wash them until he absolutely must. He’ll have the soft fabric wrapped around his dick later that same evening when Floyd’s fallen asleep and he’s up late contemplating love and lust and life and death, and he’ll cum to the thought of you. Sweet, adorable, oblivious you. 
He’s what one would call a persistence predator—a hunter who gradually wears his prey down over time. He takes from you, watches you, listens to you fret about missing things to Floyd, who promises to find the bastard who’s messing with you and squeeze them until they’re blue and purple. Jade smiles at that. Floyd wouldn’t really do that to him. Sure, they’ve hit each other when they’ve fought and roughhoused on occasion, but the punches were never truly meant. Sure, they might have been thrown playfully or angrily, but they were all temporary bouts of strength. Floyd wouldn’t truly hurt him, so to hear these determined promises and to see how you relax around him... It’s really cute. Jade wonders how much more he can take from you. 
And he wonders how much more you can take before you’re splintering. 
Really, you got lucky that Floyd picked you first. He’s far more merciful. Far more sweeter. Far more loving. At least Floyd is honest with his (at times) rough nature. At least he makes it known that he wants to bite you until you’re bleeding. But Floyd can’t stand whining. He hates it when people cry about things he can’t bother to care about, and lately you’ve been whining about this stalker you think you have for weeks now. Floyd’s told you you’re just being a scared shrimpy—that there is no stalker, that you’re probably just misplacing or losing these items, that none of them really matter because they’re replaceable. 
Jade gets lucky when Floyd finally washes his hands of you, officially fed up with your whining. And what Floyd damages Jade fixes. So when you’re in tears, distraught over the break-up and your missing items and your stalker and the fact that the door to Ramshackle was left unlocked again and that you feel like someone’s living in your shadow, Jade arrives to rescue you from your fear. You don’t even hesitate to cling to him and cry, spilling your worries in waterfalls. Perhaps it’s because he’s a familiar face. He is a reflection of Floyd, after all. 
“Oh dear,” he’ll whisper, stroking your back, allowing you to bury your face in his chest and sob. “There, there.”
You can’t see his expression, but there is a smile spreading on his lips. And his eyes are alight with cruel glee. 
“Would it make you feel better if someone accompanied you to your classes?” Your feeble nod is all he needs. “In that case, shall I spend a few days at Ramshackle with you? I’m certain whoever’s pursuing you won’t get very far if I’m around.”
And he’s right. Your stalker never takes anything again. They never leave the front door unlocked. They never trail behind you, taking shelter in your shadow. That’s because he’s your stalker, though you never managed to figure that out, and this time he doesn’t have to dwell in shadows or on the sidelines. This time he can stand before you as a friend, a soon-to-be lover, and perhaps a lifelong mate. 
Jade does not love often, but when he does it is as beautifully painful as tearing the wings from butterflies. 
#meraki mumbles#yandere twst#n/sfw#i think my favorite thing about writing yandere jade is how brutal and remorseless he can be#it's probably because he grew up in the harsh environment of the sea#which would naturally harden anyone and make them more predatory than a prey#it's probably also why he (and floyd and azul) see nothing wrong with murder#yes it's morally wrong and very much illegal#but in the ocean it's eat or be eaten and really do you think jade is going to let some other predator snap his darling up? :)#challenge: write one yan jade thought without it spiraling into a thought about his murderous rizz#challenge failed </3 he is a walking danger you cannot tell me he wouldn't think of the most horrifying things when it comes to darling#more jade thoughts!!! consider an artist (painter/sculpter/etc) jade who is absolutely obsessed with you (the nude model from his art class)#because you're the one who has finally inspired him and broken his months-long artist's block#and also because he'd like to paint you in the most vicious red#or jade who has broken into your home and is living there in secret without you knowing#sometimes he sleeps under your bed just to hear your steady breaths#he never rearranges anything in your house but he does do the dishes or clean up messes you've made#you can never remember if or when you cleaned these things but you never think much of it#jade stands at your bedside when you sleep at night and he watches you#you'll happen to wake and you'll spot him but by the time you've scrambled to wake up and turn the lights on he'll already be gone#so you're left to wonder if he was ever there in the first place or if you were still dreaming#he is the terror that you will never see until it's too late
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Can you please do a hero x villain spice where hero punishes villain for something 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 and make it VERY spicy im begging
When the villain woke up, they were delirious and sweating. At first, they squeezed their eyelids together, for the stinging light seemed to burn their retinas.
They gulped for air and let their head fall back, taking in a few breaths before they could register that they were bound to a chair.
“What the…”
Although they needed a few seconds to get used to the brightness, they were fully aware that they weren’t alone.
“Oh, hello,” the hero purred once the villain spotted them leaning against the wall in the corner. From what the villain could see, they looked smug, very satisfied too and the villain wasn’t sure if the burning desire under their skin was normal or from the sedative.
They seemed to be in an interrogation room but thankfully there were no cameras. The villain always said dumb shit when they were alone with the hero.
“What did you…”
“Shhhh.” The hero sat down on their lap, hips against hips with their arms on the villain’s shoulders and —fuck— that woke up the villain. “God, your eyes are really pretty.”
The villain felt heat conjure in their cheeks and they wanted to look at the floor. However, there was only the hero they could look at and, admittedly, it was a good view.
“All those muscles, too. You’re really stiff, though.” The hero grabbed their shoulder and squeezed lovingly as their nails dug into the villain.
“I…Christ—” The villain couldn’t help but moan. They’d been sore for days, ever since they’d helped some other villains during a heated hostage conflict.
“Listen,” the hero said. They grabbed the villain’s jaw gently. “You’re clever, I know that. We all know that. But taking people hostage? Not your style and not smart.”
“I…” The villain’s laboured breath became more controlled but still lacked any calmness. “I’m sorry.”
It had been…a complicated situation. Hostage situations were incredibly difficult to pull off and obviously illegal as well as dangerous. When the villain had agreed to it, they had had their reasons.
“You’re ruining your chances at redemption. I thought that’s what you wanted? I thought you wanted to be better.” The hero pressed their hips deeper into the villain’s which made the latter close their eyes, reaching for the self-control they needed so bad. The hero was so close and still out of reach.
Yes, the villain wanted to be better. They knew their methods were wrong and making them a criminal but there was also strategy involved in this.
“This is important to me.” The hero brushed the villain’s throat with their lips. “You’re not a bad person.”
“You kidnapped me,” the villain whispered as a little tingle of excitement formed in their stomach. They loved it when the hero wasn’t sticking to their moral code. It was like they were rubbing off on each other.
“The police were after you, so I caught you first. I saved you,” the hero replied.
“I love how you’re trying to tell yourself that this is heroic,” they said, grinning tiredly.
“What is this then?” The hero repositioned themselves on the villain’s lap, resulting in more friction against the villain’s crotch. God, this was some other type of torture.
“Mean.”
“Mean?” the hero asked. “Oh, dear, I eat villains like you for breakfast. I can be so much meaner.”
They tugged on the villain’s hair hard enough to be pleasurably painful. The villain knew they were too desperate.
“You’re seeing other villains?” they asked. Unexpectedly, the hero gave the villain’s neck a wet kiss and the villain swore it activated their whole nervous system.
“Of course not. I’m just teasing,” the hero murmured.
“Mm, good, good.” Their eyes found each other and for a second, the villain could only stare at their enemy. Sometimes, they regretted what kind of life they had chosen. If they had chosen another path, become a hero, maybe they would already have the hero to themselves with no second-guessing and no jealousy knocking on their door regularly.
“May I?” the hero whispered and at first, the villain wasn’t quite sure what they meant. Until they got closer. Until their hand was on the villain’s thigh.
“Do whatever you want.” The hero kissed them quite possessively. They were eager and skilled when it came to intimacy. Although the villain didn’t want to call themselves lonely, they knew that the hero was driven by the same feeling. To want someone is easy but to deserve affection?
There were times when the villain had doubted that they deserved to be loved. And yet, the hero was there. They were present. With their tongue in the villain’s mouth and their hand in the villain’s pants.
It felt indescribably good.
“The hostages,” the hero began when they had to gasp for air.
“Come on, not now…” The hero kissed them again but they continued to whisper against the villain’s skin.
“You can’t just do that. You can’t take people hostage.”
“I…” The hero’s hand was exactly where the villain wanted it but the hero’s movement was less than little. “It was in exchange for a favour.”
“I think you have to speak up a little.” The hero tilted their head, genuinely curious, and slowly began to move their hand more.
“…I wanted to protect you, I — fuck — I worked on the job and in exchange the others leave you alone,” the villain said. Their brain was fried. And their heart was beating happily until their head was red. However, their answer surprised the hero.
“Wait, really?” They stopped and the villain cursed quietly, suffering from the dying ecstasy. The hero looked…happy? God, the villain couldn’t really tell, they were too deep in their personal pleasure limbo.
“Yes,” they admitted. “Protection for you.”
That made the hero smirk.
“We won’t need protection today, my love,” they joked.
“I fucking hate you,” the villain answered, despite mirroring the hero’s grin.
What they weren’t aware of was that the hero’s disapproval regarding the hostage situation was serious. They didn’t let the villain finish even once and that was pure horror. Otherwise, they were quite sweet today.
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thechibilitwick · 1 month
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As an honorary Shidou apologist, I am breaking my silence. I’ve finally decided to go on a rant on why I don't think Kirisaki Shidou is an organ harvester.
(fair warning I like absolutely suck ass at organizing my thoughts, so if some of this is incoherent or if it seems like i'm repeating myself my bad 😭 I mainly wrote this for fun)
So, I'm aware that this theory is the most popular consensus when it comes to Shidou (and tbh, I think part of it is because a lot of people kinda look over him? Like at least a tiny bit more than the others, considering a lot of people also don’t realize how his main victim was probably his son and not his wife, but I digress) (plus I think all milgram characters are looked over to a certain extent). While I do think parts of it are probably accurate in some way, I don't think he was a full-on organ harvester (as in he actively stole from patients through illegal means. emphasis on actively) and that the theory in and of itself is flimsy at best. He's morally questionable, yes, but it’s more in the sense that he’s a somewhat apathetic guy who lacked understanding on how his own set of morals and values (i.e. pushing for organ donation) could be seen as wrong. So if he were an organ harvester, wouldn’t he be aware that it’s illegal? That’s what confuses me whenever people bring it up. I don't actually doubt that he may have done something illegal for his family's sake, it’s just that I still highly doubt it was something he actively did. And that seems to be what a lot of people think when they refer to the theory. (if i’m wrong please forgive me, i just assume organ harvester shidou = people think he did it as a job)
Anyways, more under the cut for those interested (it's a bit lengthy my apologies)
It then kinda trickles down to how his guilt stems more from the consequences of his actions rather than the actual action of taking organs. The root of his guilt comes from the realization that basically asking families to pull the plug and use their loved ones' organs for donation is a very, very hard decision; one that he kept pressuring for. If he was an illegal organ harvester, and was aware that his actions were in fact illegal, why the hell would he feel so guilty to the point that he’d start having suicidal ideations? That’s the key difference between his profession and his possible criminal activities; one is a burden both emotionally and morally, the other is more or less a literal burden. And based off of Shidou's character, he seems to be much more emotionally affected. That's also why I think a lot of people jump to the conclusion that his guilt stems from his actual actions rather than their effects. (does that make sense oh lord i am going ☝️🤓 so hard rn)
I get that some parts of his MV or lyrics seem to be suggesting that, but also it’s important to note that Shidou has a very strong bias against himself and definitely painted himself in a negative light. I mean, that's why he thinks every single preceding patient before the final incident is a victim to him, why he shows himself staying professional in a professional setting as apathetic (minus the pressuring part), and why he literally equates his job to STEALING. Not only that but, imo, it's also a little too unrealistic and might not actually fit the criteria of Milgram. Milgram is for crimes that are in a morally grey area. So if it really was organ harvesting, is it really in a grey area? (though I guess you could say that doing it for family's sake would be, but that's only for his family. He'd have no reason to do it otherwise). Plus, it'd make more sense and fit the theme of touching upon social issues (i.e. abortion, bullying, societal standards, mental health, etc.) if shidou’s entire dilemma was in regards to (albeit questionably done) organ donation, a complicated ethical topic in Japan.
Throw Down actually gives a pretty good rough idea of Shidou's thoughts towards his crime and his feelings in regards to it. He felt like he was blinded by his own values, and that inadvertently caused him to be unaware of the suffering he caused through his job. It really does shock me that he somehow was able to pull-off getting a forgiven verdict in T1 because he certainly comes off as cold and uncaring in regards to his work.
I think the final bridge in Throw Down kinda summarizes his entire mindset, actually.
​​Now slowly close your eye, put your regret on display Wishing you for someone else's sake With the same expression no matter who comes I don’t feel scared because I don’t know
Shidou doesn't quite understand the feelings of his patient's families, and therefore he acts remorseful and sympathetic more than he actually feels. Why? Well, because he didn't know. Up until that point, he never understood the weight of his actions, and focused on his role as a doctor. "This is an upsetting subject, yes, but it's for the greater good, right?” A braindead person has little to no chances of living, so why not use this as an opportunity to donate their organs? Moreover, as a doctor I believe it’s typical to be "emotionally detached” (for lack of a better word) since I’d assume becoming emotionally connected with a patient would make things at least a bit messy.
His mindset comes crumbling down though, presumably because he experienced the same or a similar situation. This part remains muddy for me, since we don't know much about what the actual cause for Shidou's guilt is. There are several possibilities, with the most plausible ones being:
he lost his own family member and had to go through with the same decision,
he tried to save a family member using donated organs, but failed, making it seem like everything he has done as a doctor was in vain
(a secret third option would be him making someone he cares about make that decision but it's very unlikely and also requires too much mental gymnastics)
But no matter what exactly he did, it all trickles down to the validity of his morals. After realizing the pain of losing a loved one, the struggle of trying to save them, and the unfortunate failure which left all efforts practically pointless, Shidou would understand the actual weight of his actions and why all those families were so reluctant to let go of their own.
This is even more evident in his T2 voice drama, Asclepius.
"In order to save the life of someone you don't know, please let me kill your family," I told them. It doesn't even take much thinking to realize how cruel that is, but… I didn't realize it until the very end.
This is the gist of Shidou's crime, or at least part of it (considering he says "Well, about halfway" when Es asks if their judgment was right). Again, this tells us that Shidou's guilt comes from the act of the effects of organ donation rather than the literal action. And this also implies that his "murders" did in fact have to do with being in a medical situation, it's just the way he went about it was at the very least morally questionable.
I will also acknowledge that he says he killed for selfish reasons, which most likely relates to trying to save his own family member. Here he could possibly have actually done something illegal such as tampering with patients or illegally taking their organs (latter is a stretch imo). Plus, his distorted T2 voice trailer line is literally "You're in the way, hurry up and die" which would only make sense in the context of waiting for a patient to die. But it could also just be him continuing to pressure for organ donation, but now with his own selfish motives.
Going back to the "halfway" comment, while I personally believe it might have to do with how Shidou views his crime as more than just taking organs, it more likely implies that something else happened that Shidou would consider murder. That being the actual death of his family member. It's implied through Throw Down that he was trying to save someone but failed, which he was responsible for. Then from there it'd make sense to assume that he would feel some form of guilt for the rest of his patients, either for the reason of failing to actually utilize donated organs even with the opportunity of being able to save them, or for just realizing the what it actually feels like to have to give up on your loved one. (does. does that make any sense.)
So yeah, I don’t think he’s an organ harvester due to what’s known regarding his crime, the reasoning for his guilt, and with the way he is as a character. The most I’d personally believe is that he decided to harvest organs for the sake of his loved one, but even that seems like a stretch to me. Thus, that is why I believe Kirisaki Shidou is not an organ harvester.
Anyways I’ve rambled on long enough, thank you for reading if you did and remember to drink water and vote shidou innocent in trial 3 because i will shit my pants if he doesn't get inno
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archetypal-archivist · 4 months
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hey man, i've been following u for a while but i saw your comment and dude.. bringing up the age of consent means jackshit man. it isnt a cultural difference, if brazilians ( the ones who were literally the first people who brought it up ! and translated everything ! ) say its weird and wrong, then it's weird. you don't have to defend forever, put your morals before your entertainment.
Okay first: I don't agree with pedophilia and regardless of age of consent, going out with younger people when certain age gaps and power dynamics are at play is a scummy thing to do. I'll agree with you on this and I'll ask that you read the entirety of this post explaining why else I commented before you start metaphorically stabbing me.
Second: My reason for bringing up age of consent is not to excuse what he's done, not in the least. The reason I am is because there's a nonzero chance that there's cultural shit at play and as a white person from the USA, I don't know enough about the situation to say anything for sure. For example, in Japan it's very common for women to be sexually assaulted in trains- some statistics put that number higher than 20%. It's not excused there, people there hate it as much as people here. However, when numbers are that high, one does have to wonder what percentage of the population assumes that it is okay. What percentage assumes that yes it's scummy, but it's also to be expected. In Japan, while there are laws against sexual assault, the chances of anything being done about it are... not always promising.
Obviously sexual assault is not okay. Obviously the people who do it are in the wrong. I am not excusing this behavior, nor should it be normalized. However, the fact remains that there are cultural norms that may be at play here and those norms may dictate to some people that it is okay. Even if it's not. (Think about how many entitled dude bros are in the US who think commenting on a woman's bust size is okay, or think it's normal for a husband to physically punish his wife.)
The fact here is that whether or not Forever went out with an underage fan, so long as the fan was over the age of 14, it was not technically illegal. And as such, there may be cultural norms in some locations that make a young 20-something think going out with a 14 or 15 year old is okay. Is it a good thing to do from a moral standpoint? Absolutely not. But until I know what percentage of 14-15 year olds in Brazil date/get hit on by older men or someone from Brazil can fill me in, I don't have enough information to know if Forever's going out with this person was to do so with scummy intentions. It's a scummy action sure, and people are welcome to dislike it. But I want to know the degree of scummy before I make a personal decision, you know?
There's a difference between peer pressure + not knowing better and going out with intent. One of which will make me distance myself from the situation until he makes an apology, the other makes me start deleting old work with him in it. Regardless, until there is more work from Forever in making up and apologizing for his past actions, I will not be supporting him.
Third reason: The person who's dragged up all those old tweets is apparently an anti and has spent a lot of their time trying to dig up dirt on the Brazilians. There's a logical fallacy regarding disbelieving a source simply because you don't like them, but there's also something to be said about believing someone on the internet wholeheartedly regarding context and what they think was going on when you don't know the person and they have reason to be biased. Again, I want to know. And I want other people to fill me in and for other people to have information so they too can be filled in. I'll be doing my own research too of course, but again, I'm not from Brazil nor do I speak Portuguese.
As such, I'll close this post with this: If you are from Brazil, can you weigh in with your takes on the situation and the cultural norms regarding the age of consent in Brazil? Also, if you are not from Brazil and/or you also think you may be missing something about this whole situation, feel free to sit in the corner with me while we watch this shitshow and hope for more info. Just- don't go attacking people. Please.
I'd rather not get an outpouring of hate in my inbox.
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stuckyfingers · 5 months
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I'm just thinking about autistic Steve...
(I'm not as well educated about autism as I'd like to be so do correct me if I'm wrong)
Like, he's always been 'weird' even apart from his physical disabilities. He's felt a kind of self hatred over how sensitive he is to little things that are wrong but he can't explain why.
He hated talking but also loved talking about one specific thing that noone had any idea why he liked. (If someone can headcanon his hyperfixation, that'd be great). Either way, it didn't make him very popular among his peers. As a child he'd get bullied for just about anything because of how many faux pas-es he made.
He'd try to get home as soon as possible from school and shut himself into his plywood cabin of a room and cry. Bucky theorized that he was a vampire because of how much he liked fabric lined dark places.
He never guessed it wasn't normal to hate wearing clothes, so he continued living in constant discomfort and caution. Sarah had caught on to the specificities of how he needed his food and tried her best to get his safe foods on the table despite being poor. (Yes, she even called it that.)
Did I mention he also starts crying when he can't predict his day. And when things get more and more uncertain with the Depression swinging in, he gets so stressed that his heart problems worsen.
But having Bucky as a friend helps them both survive the times. Bucky was the only person who seemed unconcerned and unjudgmental about Steve's 'moodiness' and 'fidgeting'. He tried to understand when Steve described sensory overloads to him, and though he couldn't relate he accommodated Steve as much as he could.
Steve was frighteningly smart and picked up on every social cue he found, organizing them into a mental flowchart, assuming that this was what everyone did. But for most of his childhood he saw himself as less smart because Bucky seemed to be able to tell him things that he somehow still missed.
"Well how the fuck am I supposed to know that if they don't give any indication of being sarcastic?"
"Because it's not sarcasm, Steve... It's just- talking shop. A fake nice word, just because."
"How am I supposed to tell the difference?"
"Well, you just do. I don't know how you could... consciously do it."
By the miracle of God (and Bucky) he pushes through Eugenics era until 1943.
The Serum brings color to his eyes and more sound to his bad ear.
And he hates it.
But what's new is how much more physical energy he has to mask it.
It feels comparatively better to be able to mask without getting exhausted so fast, so he assumes his 'weirdness' has been cured and goes to war. In his line of work, however, he never gets a day's rest for his brain that craved routine, and because of how he's now able to push the feeling deep down and cover it up, Bucky can hardly recognize him.
And when he's out of the ice, his brain is turned to mush at having to learn new cues along with being autistic but anyone in that situation would have found it as difficult, so he passes it off.
One day he sees one of the people at Sam's VA talked about how their autism shaped their experience of PTSD differently, and Steve did the customary google search to learn more about it.
It said 'can't make eye contact'. But he knew the correct ratio of eye contact / looking away and what part of the eye he could look at so that it wouldn't drive him mad.
It said 'sensory issues' and he felt bad for those who actually had it because that must be horrible.
'Black and White thinking' okay but that doesn't mean- but see, he did know that illegal things weren't necessarily bad, right? He was ready to accept the criminality of something if it was a means to a moral end. And maybe there were some things that he could not see any nuance in but there were so many things he could. He couldn't have believed in Bucky if his thinking was Black and White right?
'Lack of empathy' No. Steve didn't understand people's feelings immediately, but he always logically guessed when they needed help. He kept note of the things that people found comforting so that he could be of comfort when they were down. He was empathetic, right?
He knew he wasn't autistic. (spoiler alert, he's just reading the symptoms from an outside perspective)
It's when he starts following more and more autistic creators that he felt less wrong for those weird things he did as a kid. He chuckles nervously scrolling through the tiktoks like "Ha ha why are ya'll so relatable"
He's not immune to the stigma but comes to terms with it. It feels a lot like how he came to terms with being queer. He's even surprised when he realizes that he was also wrongly assuming that it was gone because of the serum when it just became more manageable (for others) when he did.
Bucky listens like he always did when Steve explains things to him. And after a long while of living his truth with Bucky, Steve gets more comfortable describing himself as autistic to other people as well.
He starts experimenting with stimming, which already feels MILES better than forcing himself into a 'calm' and steady Captain's body language. Once he retires after Endgame, he surrounds himself with comfort and accommodations in his apartment and builds a routine he can finally be at peace with.
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7 Things pro-Palestinians Forgot to Tell You (...this war is not about land...)
You hear so much about Israel and Gaza in the news. But there are a few things that pro-Palestinians forget to tell you. Here is a quick summary of the things you need to know.
1) Why don’t the Palestinians have a state?
So you have the Jews and the Arabs fighting over the same piece of land. Why not divide it into two? This smart idea has been proposed a few times throughout history: in 1937, in 1947, in 2003 and in 2008. The British proposed it, the UN, and the Americans. And while the Israelis were willing to compromise and accept this solution, the Palestinians kept saying no to it. By the end of this video, you will understand why. Here is a hint. It is not about the land.
2) You are next
You may well be saying to yourself: Who cares? So the Jews and the Arabs are fighting over a piece of land and each thinks that God is on their side and it is all just stupid religious stuff. Well, you’re wrong, because you may well be next. Hamas and all their friends – ISIS, Hezbollah, the Taliban, the Muslim brotherhood – they all want a Muslim world. They see Spain as a Muslim land, and Rome as the capital of the Crusaders, the infidels. And London, and Paris, and Berlin, and Manhattan… They accuse the Jews of wanting to control the world, yet they themselves very clearly state that that’s what they want to do. I listen to them, and so should you. Ignoring reality and wishful thinking doesn’t make you morally superior. I urge you to go to one of the anti-Israel rallies happening near you and ask the young Muslims (who, by the way, are the fastest-growing community in Europe) whether they prefer European democracy or Sharia law. Or whether it should be illegal to be gay. Really, please just try it and see.
3) Why are there so many Palestinian refugees in the world? 
Hundreds of millions of people all over the world have become refugees as a result of war or other disasters from 1945 till today. A UN agency was set up to help all the refugees. And there is also another separate agency, called UNRWA, for the most privileged refugees in the world - the Palestinians. You’re probably asking yourself why the world needs two agencies? Well, the difference between these agencies is that UNRWA, the agency for the Palestinians, allows the Palestinians to pass their refugee status on to their sons and grandsons and great grandsons and so on. So instead of putting all the money into helping the real refugees in the world, the UN is pouring money into Gaza, whose people are using this money to finance Hamas.
4) Ethnic cleansing
Israel is accused of ethnic cleansing. Let’s check the numbers. In 1948 there were 160,000 Israeli Arabs; today there are two million. In 1967, there were around a million Palestinians; today there are 4.5 million. I am not very good at math, but I do know that two million is more than 160,000. Now let’s have a look at the number of Jews in neighboring countries. In Lebanon in 1948 there were 6,000 Jews; today there are about 100. In Syria, 80 years ago, there were more than 30,000 Jews. Today there are basically zero. In Egypt in 1940 there were 70,000 Jews. Today there are three. So yes, there is ethnic cleansing going on in the Middle East – but it’s the Muslims who are doing it to the Jews. My next video will be about this very topic. 
By the way, the two million Arabs living in Israel enjoy exactly the same rights as the Jews. Is it all perfect and uncomplicated? No. But if you ask Israeli Arabs where they want to live – in Israel or under Palestinian rule, most of them will choose Israel. Israeli Arabs enjoy more rights and a higher standard of living than any Arabs in the Middle East. Did you know that it was an Arab judge that sent the president of Israel to jail? I guess not. Most Israelis don’t know about this either. And do you know why? Because what does it matter if the judge is a Jew or an Arab or a Druze? The president was a criminal and so he was sent to jail.
5) Hamas doesn’t like gays
You will have seen lots of so-called progressives marching proudly with the Palestinians in pro-Hamas demonstrations. They didn’t get put on the streets when half a million died in the war in Syria; they didn’t demonstrate when Iran murdered girls who refused to cover their hair. Pakistan is about to deport 1.7 million Afghans. I wonder if a single progressive will come out and demonstrate for them… The progressives have apparently decided to team up with Hamas. Do you know what one of the first things Hamas did when it came to power in Gaza was? They rounded up gay men and took them up onto a roof. And not to enjoy a rooftop party but… Lesbians are not welcome either. Actually, no progressive ideas are welcome in Gaza.
6) Gaza is not a prison
Let’s talk about Gaza. Is Gaza really the biggest prison camp in the world? Gaza shares borders with Israel and Egypt. Israel doesn’t control the border with Egypt, so how can it be a prison? Moreover, Hamas, which was elected in 2007, very clearly states that it wants to destroy Israel. And yet Israel continues to provide water, electricity and aid to Gaza. Have you heard about any other countries that provide humanitarian aid to their enemies? And how about this: did you know that the daughter of Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh was treated in an Israeli hospital? Hamas is one of the richest terror organizations in the world, and Haniyeh has a net worth of 4 billion dollars. He resides in one of the most expensive hotels in Qatar while his people are suffering in Gaza. But unlike others who blame Hamas leaders who have billions in the bank and are now living in Qatar and Turkey, I don’t blame them. 
If Hamas enjoys the support of 65% of the people in Gaza, then what is happening is their fault. I will now say a crazy thing that has never been said before by the mainstream media. The people of Gaza are responsible for their situation. I know it’s shocking. They aren’t choosing terror because they are poor. They are poor because they are choosing terror. Money is not the problem. The people of Gaza get more money from the UN, the Arab countries, the European Union and the US than any other group, but instead of investing in education and infrastructure, they build tunnels and rockets. There is no shortage of that in Gaza.
7) Constitutions
I am sure you have noticed my heavy, yet beautiful, Israeli accent - and yes, this is the Israeli perspective. The thing is that after seeing this, you might switch to the BBC and see the other side, the Palestinian side. And you’ll be like: Who are the good guys and who are the bad guys? To answer this question, I like to go to the source, rather than relying on he said, she said. Let’s look at the basics, at what each entity, Israel and Hamas, says about themselves. The Israeli Declaration of Independence says: WE EXTEND our hand to all neighboring states and their peoples in an offer of peace and good neighborliness, Israel will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion or race; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture; 
The Hamas constitution says: Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam obliterates it. There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes.
This conflict is not about land; it is about values. Jihad, violence and death versus freedom, equal rights and peace. Which side are you on?
I want to thank my supporters. You keep me going! The success of this video is determined by you. Like it and share it. See you next week. Yalla bye.
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If you've been following me for a while, you'll know this is not some kind of strawman, it's an explicit tenet of Islam that it has global supremacist intentions.
If this was about land, it would have been resolved decades ago, since there have been multiple offers made, all of which have been rejected. It's about killing all the Jews, conquering the lands, and then waging jihad globally.
I've been talking about Islam and its goals for years, so to turn around and say, oh, this isn't about religion, when Hamas terrorists are telling you that it is, and it's exactly what Islamic doctrine declares... you suddenly have a short memory. What did you think it would look like?
This is Islam. This is jihad. This is what Islam wants. This is what Islam promises to do worldwide. This is what Islam looks like in full Muhammadean flight.
And exterminating jihadists who know they have their god's divine command behind them, who say themselves that the only solution is jihad, is the only way to defend a non-Sharia world.
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cryptidclaw · 1 year
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FINALLY someone who sees Squirrelflight the same way I do, not as the saint the fandom makes her out to be, but a character whose in the wrong and needs to get her shit together. I'm sorry but she and Brambleclaw have issues sure, but Bramble isn't just the one in the wrong. The fandom treats him like he's the devil (they treat Ashfur the same way, when I personally think his arc was interesting taking into account he found his mother as dog bait when he was a child and was basically left parentless, he and ferncloud took it very differently, fern going and becoming a mother to everyone and Ash trying to find love somewhere else and then getting rejected. Did he take it too far yeah, he did ofc but it's interesting to look at the psychology behind it) this fandom treats Squirrel and Leaf like their saints and can do no wrong but from where I see it. . .they cause plenty of the problems. Like why didn't they tell bramble about the three? How hard would that have been to tell squirrels mate, someone she trusts, what's going on?
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since we talking about the morality/ goodness of Squirrelflight and Leafpool (and Brambleclaw and Ashfur) now I thought I would group these together and just ramble about Squirrel and Leafpool for a bit
I personally think that Squirrelflight and Leafpool are good people who had to make hard decisions that would inevitably hurt people in the hopes of protecting each other and their loved ones.
These two live in basically a cult and had to do some crazy shit to protect Leaf and her kits, and I don't blame them for what they chose to do in the situation they were put in. Were there ways that could have possibly been better? Ya probably, but they aren't evil for choosing to do what they did.
Also Squilf hurt the 3 by not telling them they were adopted, but also I feel like that's where her crimes end. Like Brambleclaw has been shown to be an abusive prick so I wouldn't blame Squirrel for not wanting to tell him the truth, especially when he's Thunderclan's deputy. I have a hard time believing he would have gone along with their plan, and he probably would have done something cruel and stupid if they told him. Yes him finding out did hurt him so I guess that's a crime in a way, but i really dont think Squirrel had any other options in that department.
I think out of Squirrel and Leaf, leaf is much more in the wrong here (love her and her bad decisions tho hehe). She had like some of the most illegal babies ever due to some really bad decisions (even if its unfair that her relationship was illegal) and then she let her sister take on most of the responsibility of dealing with her mistakes. Squirrelflight could have had a chill scandal-less life, but instead she took in her sister's kits and lied to the clan and her mate all to protect Leaf, when it wasn't even her problem and Leaf didn't stop her. Leaf didn't take on much responsibility for her mistakes, she just let Squif do that. I understand why but still if there's anyone to be mad it its Leaf and her bad decision making skills lol
I really love how complex their situation is, its probably one of the most interesting things that has happened in warriors. Its complicated, and the characters involved are good people who made bad decisions, and hard decisions. They wanted to protect the people they loved and it inevitably failed. I love a good tragic drama.
these two sisters are some sad soggy meow meows
I could go on even longer but I wont, could prob expand on Leafpool opinions too but i shall stop here.
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rileys-battlecats · 11 months
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Man,
Wrentail's character is just something I love, he is horrible in a very mundane, unfeeling, callous way.
He looks at Mudpaw, a cat that is only still alive because Wrentail decided to save him as a kit, and is just like "kid's a pussy (pun intended), let me toughen him up." and puts him through horrible training without feeling anything. Yet at the same time it doesn't seem like Wrentail is out to make Mudpaw's life horrible or is targeting him, it's just that this is the only teaching method he knows. He is callous and doesn't seem to know or care about how this is affecting Mudpaw.
At the same time, when push comes to shove, he clearly has a basic sense of right and wrong. Not letting a kit die isn't exactly a exceptional test of morality, but it shows that Wrentail knows doing so would be wrong, same with saving Mudpaw from falling. He does both without hesitation or ulterior motive. Wrentail isn't evil or deranged, but he can ignore his own conscience when it suits him.
Also, love his design, the contrast between his colorful pelt and permanent grumpiness speaks to me. WHY COULDN'T YOU JUST MAKE HIM A BROWN TABBY LIKE EVERY OTHER BAD CAT IN WARRIORS!!! Now I'm invested :(
YES THIS. He is a very mundane evil. Not mundane in that his abuse was unremarkable, not at all, but mundane in a way that is just... the way some people are. I've said it before on this blog, but I try to portray Wrentail in a realistic way. I don't want him to be cartoonishly evil, because real people aren't like that. Real people have multiple sides to them, and they can be terrible and abusive while also doing good deeds in other areas. This most certainly doesn't absolve them of the terrible things they've done, but it can muddy the water if you're only looking for someone who is pure evil. That's why I portray Wrentail doing good things as well; real abusers hardly ever seem like abusers from the outside.
tbh I've gotten a few comments on the youtube videos that have mistaken these good deeds as a form of redemption for wrentail. This is absolutely not the case. Wrentail's good deeds do not cancel out his bad ones. Him saving Mudpaw at the falls? Sure, Mudpaw instigated the fight but wrentail is the adult here; as a fully grown warrior, he should be fully capable of handling an out of control apprentice. Real teachers have to handle situations with students who are being violent, and they absolutely are not allowed to allow students to harm others or themselves (source: several college classes on classroom management and personal experience in classrooms). It was the bare minimum that he pull mudpaw up from the falls. And he did! He did it without hesitation! But that hardly means he's a shining beacon of moral good. Saving Mudpaw as a kitten? Literally it would have been illegal if he didn't. Once again, he shows a bit of emotion in the situation, he's swayed by a tiny kitten being in need, but it's still the bare minimum of what he should do for that kit.
Doing these things was good, to be sure. He's saved mudpaw's life twice. But it is absolutely not a reflection of him "secretly being a good person" or whatever. anyway I know those sorts of comments are likely made by people who don't have as much life experience or are just on the younger side, but it's kinda disheartening to see people misinterpreting those actions as me saying "oh actually he was secretly a good guy!" when that couldn't be further from the truth of what I'm trying to say. Black and white morality doesn't work here, good actions do not always equal good person.
And just because he's chosen to be harmful and abusive to Mudpaw, doesn't mean he's pure, abject evil. Wrentail wouldn't go out of his way to hurt Mudpaw if he weren't his mentor. It just so happens that he was put into that position of authority over this specific cat he had something against, and because he could hurt mudpaw, he did. He had the opportunity, and he took it. He could have just as easily asked for Larkstar to assign Mudpaw to another warrior, but he didn't, because it gave him the excuse and the room to hurt someone he thought deserved it.
Man, I really love the concept behind the designs I made for Wrentail and Mudpaw specifically. Wrentail isn't supposed to look evil, that's the point! He blends in with normal clan society. I specifically altered their designs after a while, making Wrentail softer and more rounded and Mudpaw angular and sharp-edged, to reflect the other characters' impressions of them. It is really funny though how many evil wc characters are big dark brown tabbies HAHA
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polyamanga · 4 months
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Poly Rep: Girlfriend, Girlfriend
Girlfriend, Girlfriend is a romantic-comedy manga by author Hiroyuki.
Naoya has been in love with Saki for years, but despite constantly declaring his love, she's always rejected him--until recently. Not too long after they start dating, though, Naoya is asked out by Nagisa, a girl who has had a crush on him for a while.
Nagisa shows such dedication that Naoya can't bring himself to turn her down...so he takes her to Saki, and asks her permission to date them both. Initially, Saki is vehemently against it, but Nagisa gives her puppy dog eyes and says "pleeeaaaseeee??" Saki can't say no to a cute girl, so she agrees.
GFGF is a comedy series first, and a romance series second. The polyamorous relationship between the main three is used as a vessel for the series' comedy. This usually consists of characters being angry about it for laughs. The relationship is consistently referred to as "two-timing", etc, and the readers are reminded very often that Naoya is scum for dating two women. It gives the impression that the author is only writing about polyamory because he thinks it's funny, and he thinks it's funny because it's wrong...which is very frustrating as a polyamorous reader.
The series can never seem to decide whether or not Saki and Nagisa are happy in this relationship. They will waffle between being perfectly content, and wanting Naoya to themselves and lamenting the situation they're in. Then, later on, Mirika and Shino join the fray, and they are both constantly deriding the relationship and expressing how wrong it is. (At least Shino makes solid points, interrogating Naoya about bigamy being illegal, and asking how he intends to financially support two people in this economy. She comes at it the wrong way, but her concerns are valid lol.)
During certain stretches of the series, it feels like every chapter is telling the reader, "this relationship is morally and socially wrong, but isn't it funny how scummy this guy is?"
Spoilers from here on out:
There are some very lovely moments, in particular chapter 129, after Saki has broken off the relationship because sharing Naoya makes her too sad. While the plot development itself feels like its retreading the same ground other arcs did, the conclusion is heartfelt. Shino and Nagisa agree that if Saki isn't happy, the relationship can't work, and they'll back off so she can date Naoya monogamously. They tell her that they love her, and want to see her happy, and they hope one day she might love them just as much. Saki bursts into tears and exclaims that she loves them both so much, and she always had fun while they were together. She comes to the conclusion that she's ultimately okay with the relationship after all, because, despite the sadness she feels from sharing Naoya, the happiness she feels at seeing the girls she cares about happy as well outweighs it.
THIS is fantastic. It's beautifully written and illustrated, the drama is great and heart-wrenching. I cry every time I read it.
But it's followed by Saki kind of, sighing, rolling her eyes, and letting Shino into the polycule. It still feels begrudging, even after all of that. Again, it's frustrating to read.
I could rant forever about Mirika and how deeply irritating I found her as a character, but I'll summarize it as this: she spends the entire series telling the main cast that not only is their relationship wrong and never going to work, but she's going to break them up and keep Naoya for herself. Then she joins the polycule at the end with no significant development to change that perspective. It's unsatisfying, not only because all of her wrong-doing throughout the series is basically ignored/forgiven, but it also doesn't do her character any sort of justice. SHE didn't want to be in a polyamorous relationship. She actively hated the idea, and down to the very last second, she continues to refuse it. Then...Naoya begs her to join the polycule, and she says yes. That's it.
I would say, in my opinion, as far as polyamorous representation goes, GFGF mostly fails. Some moments shine through, but the majority of the series is almost hostile to the very concept of polyamory, even if it is done in a comedic fashion.
If you're able to take this kind of writing on the chin and not be bothered by it, you very well might enjoy GFGF. I wouldn't go so far as to never recommend it to anyone looking for poly rep in anime/manga. But I definitely know of other series I'd recommend first.
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nullbutler · 3 months
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RESULTS:
Disturbing Yourself For Fun SURVEY This survey ran from December 28th to January 19th. It received 59 responses. Well done! Thank you so much everyone who participated.
I'll show the results now, and then I'll discuss them down below. Some biases that should be noted: I don't have an audience of proshippers. There may be a slight bias in the direction of the people who typically follow my blog. However, judging by the results, I think someone outside of my circle brought it into a few other circles, because the results are varied. What sorts of disturbing scenarios did children play? (this question allowed multiple answers) I'm sorry i used the word 'de-limbing instead of amputation'
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The two most common results were stories about depression, as well as stories about being abandoned. Similarly, romantic manipulation and child neglect were very popular. Even the most uncommon results were still about 20%, making them fairly common and likely.
Were you ever uncomfortable playing? (the most common answer was some form of yes)
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How old were you when you were first self-aware of the discomfort? (most common was 1st-2nd grade, second most was 3rd-6th)
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How did you get into writing disturbing scenarios?
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(The one that got 0 was "i realized a lot of things during the MeToo movement, which is one no one selected, but applies to me, but I didn't take my own survey sobs)
The most common results were either that it was in a book or in a fanfiction, second only to 'something disturbing happened in a show.' Real life trauma was also a massive contributing factor.
Did disturbing stories ever make you feel comfortable?
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They say disturbing things comfort the disturbed and disturb the comforted...
My biggest theory of this project is "is disturbing content addictive" and to that, I can safely say, yes. Yes, it is.
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The most common results were thoughts of "I shouldn't be doing this," "someone is watching me do this" and "I guess I'm just weird." However, 19% noted that it was having an impact on their trauma, and 22.4% observed that they had felt guilty over it.
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The most driving force of disturbing content was, expectedly, curiosity. Children are curious. However, it should be noted that 30.2% wished that someone would acknowledge what they were doing and talk to them about it. 24.5% also acknowledged the recognition "This happened to me. Only my toys know."
Once again, I'm so sorry for all the cropping issues only providing half of the question. I completely understand that that's annoying to look through. You're welcome to take the survey if you want to, to see the questions better. I'm still leaving it open, now that my 'study' is complete:
Let's talk about fandom spaces.
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Do you read disturbing fanfiction (I had to remove the visual because of the issues with the survey)
No, I don't read fanfiction: 1.7%
I do not read fanfiction that disturbs me: 3.4%
Yes, I have intentionally sought out disturbing fanfiction expecting to be disturbed: 62.7%
Yes, I have intentionally sought out disturbing fanfiction thinking "I can handle it" and was wrong: 39%
Someone I trusted showed me disturbing fanfic and it disturbed me: 3.4%
Yes. I enjoy being disturbed by high quality writing: 54.2%
I enjoy being disturbed by crack and bizarre stories: 18.6%
I find disturbing stories sexually appealing: 25.4%
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I would like to imagine the 0 is the result of people being entirely truthful.
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Around 50/50 of people are either morally conscious or physically conscious about certain kinds of vaguely described illegal/dangerous disturbing content. However, 13 out of 57 (22%) claimed true for both, 20 out of 57 (35%) claimed true for neither, and 23 out of 57 (40%) chose at least 1.
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Adults more frequently ask the question, "What if I'm sexually into this?" They also tend to be more uncomfortable than children are when approaching disturbing topics.
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squinting at the typos People also shared a lot of very personal stories. While I won't include excerpts from those, just know, I read every one of them and took the responses to heart. Thank you for your vulnerability.
CONCLUSION
I think it's really really telling that fiction is an outlet for people to express their fears and curiosities. After all, there is no one you can hurt inside fiction. However, the prevalence of it on the internet has been a lot of people's first exposure to graphic, violent, and sexual content. I'm not saying this with any intention, only to emphasize that this is the culture of the internet that we have been put into. That's the way it is, and when people are scared by something, especially when they are a child, they play with it so it becomes less frightening. This survey was just made for the express purpose of solidifying and acknowledging that fact.
There is nothing shameful about the way someone plays with their toys, but this survey has also demonstrated that violent, cruel play can lead to addiction and habituation of that play. It can be hard to find mundane things exciting when graphic and disturbing things are much more so. This is the process of desensitization. Just something to be aware of.
Personal experience: I'm someone who is very obsessive about my own morality. I'm someone who, when I was like 11, thought I was a bad evil irredeemable person because I used to make my warrior cat toys get pregnant??? Lmao... I'm not kidding. That's what that was. The degree of shame and self disgust was completely unreasonable.
And then, when I was 17, I tried to just let it all go. Basically acknowledge the idea that 'nothing in fiction really matters, go fucking wild.' And I did, and even though I got some sort of assurance from that scared 11 year old playing warrior cats, I was still looking at things that no matter how desensitized I was, horrified me. Horrified me. Made it very difficult for me to write stories that didn't involve horrifying elements. It was very hard to get my mind out of that place where the only sort of entertainment was the kind you could get through making yourself feel heart poundingly sick. Those stories have always been the easier ones for me to write.
There's no real point to this personal message, just that after all was said and done, I tried to focus on more wholesome things. And then, college hit. I prefaced this with "I'm psych student!" but I ended the study not as one anymore. I dropped out. I got really into Fear & Hunger and Kaze to ki no Uta as well as other disturbing shows. There is comfort in that.
I think, at the end of the day, to those people who can rotate their blorbo around in their heads, that's a form of playing!
Here are some interesting studies about playing:
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The Huntsman in: The Red of Roses and Huntresses!
We open on our Bumbling Blonde Hero, and his partner WonderZwei as they watch over the city of Vale!
Jaune: *hurrk!* Oh being up here isn't good for me! But! I must stay strong! I must Watch for evil doers!
Zwei: Bark!
Jaune: Ah! Yes! Anti-Nausea medication! This is why we're partners WonderZwei! Good Boy!
Zwei: Bark!
The Door to the Roof opens Behind them
Shopkeep: *Grumbling*
Jaune: Yes sir, we'll be quieter.
Shopkeep: *Grumbling*
Jaune: No sir, We aren't stuck up here this time.
Shopkeep: *Grumbling*
Jaune: Thank you for Checking on us sir.
Random Citizen: Oh no! the Red Huntress!
Jaune: That's our Call to Action! Let's go WonderZwei!
Our hero leaps into action!
*CRACK*
And Plummets to the ground!
Shopkeep: *Panicked Grumbling*
Zwei: Woof.
Jaune: I AM OKAY!
~Duh Duh De Duh~
Ruby: Oh boy! A new scope for crescent rose, and a new comic book! Today couldn't go wrong!
Random Citizen: Oh no! the Red Huntress!
Ruby: Oh no! if only there was a hero around here!
Ruby: Wait I'm a hero! and a Huntress as well!
Pyrrha (dressed as the Red Huntress): Oh? You believe you can withstand the Might of the Red Huntress?
Ruby: I Believe I can!
Pyrrha: How about I show some of what I can do before you try?
Ruby: Uuh? Okay?
Pyrrha: Thank you. Now. Take a Seat!
*CREAK* *SNAP* *CREAK*
Ruby: *Struggling* How dare you destroy Public Property! Even if it is one of the benches of hostile architecture that doesn't solve the problem of homelessness, but rather pushes it somewhere else! Let alone trap me within it!
Pyrrha: Because I'm a villain! And destroying things is what we do!
Jaune: Halt your misdoings Huntress!
Ruby: *gasp* WonderZwei!
Zwei: Bark!
Ruby: Oh, and you too Huntsman.
Jaune: ...
Pyrrha: Are you okay?
Jaune: *Voice Cracking* NeVer beT- *Clears throat* Never Better!
Jaune: Cease Your Illegal activities and Turn Yourself into the police at once!
Pyrrha: Oh? and Let the city keep it's Hostile architecture? Isn't direct action without harm the most effective kind of action?
Jaune: Y-yes but ...
Pyrrha: And do you not care for the citizens of this city, housed or not?
Jaune: I do! But the Legality .. But the Morality ... But. But ...
Zwei: Woof.
Ruby: I'm still here! What about me?
Jaune: Ah Hah! you have a Hostage! Release them at once, or face my wrath, instead of giving me conflicting feelings about that which I defend!
Pyrrha: How about a deal? I release the Girl, you both leave and I continue, undoing the harmful actions of the council of vale.
Jaune: ... that is an amicable deal Huntress. I will take R- The Girl and Leave!
Pyrrha: Then Go~ See you next time Cutie~
He picks Ruby up. She is still bound in Bench
Jaune: There is good in you Huntress. Your Choices here prove it! I will draw it out of you one day!
Ruby: Wait My things!
Zwei: Arf!
Ruby: Oh! Thank you WonderZwei!
The Blond doofus runs through the city, Carrying a certain Silver-Eyed Girl, far away from the Red Huntress!
Ruby: *Thinking* He's strong enough to carry me and this bench so far ... He Saved me from that villain ... He looks so handsome ...
Jaune: *Huffs* I ... Think ... We're far enough ... *Huffs*
Ruby: Thank you! Thank you both so Much!
Jaune: I still need to release you from your cage!
*CREAK*
*CREAK*
*CREAK*
Jaune: There! Stay Safe Now young lady! I must commend your bravery, however, in attempting to secure the Red Huntress yourself!
The Huntsman Stands tall, over the sitting Ruby Rose, His Magnificent Blank- Er, I mean, Cape flapping in the Wind!
Ruby: *Blushing* How Could I ever repay You?
Jaune: Protect others, Love Freely, Fight for what's right, and Keep yourself safe!
Ruby: (So Noble ... I must Have Him!)
Zwei: Bark!
Jaune: Here are your things.
Zwei: Grr!
Jaune: Oh! and you may repay my Partner with treats and Headpats!
Ruby: Who's a good boy, Oh whose the Goodest Boy? You are ~ Yes you are!~
Jaune: Very well then Citizen! We must away!
Ruby: ...
Ruby: They're so cool!
Our Heroes head to a dumpster, change back into their civilian clothes, and catch a bullhead home!
Pyrrha (Dressed in her normal clothes): Hello Jaune~ What were you doing out in the city?
Jaune: Oh! I was -uh - Buying sword polish? and taking Zwei for a walk?
Pyrrha: Oh that's Nice of you, I'm sure Ruby and Yang appreciate it. It's good that you're taking care of Crocea Mors as well Jaune! Take care of it, it'll take care of you.
Ruby: GUYS! You wouldn't believe what happened today! The Red Huntress attacked, and I tried to stop her But she was all like "Take a Seat" and Then Trapped me in a bench, but then the Huntsman and WonderZwei came, and He Was all Like "Stop doing Crime!' And She was like "No", Then he carried me while WonderZwei got my stuff, and he untied me from the bench with his bare hands, and he's so cool and heroic and Dreamy!
Jaune: Whoa! Ruby! slow down, and take a breath your turning Blue.
Pyrrha: (you Think he's Dreamy?)
Jaune: I mean What even was the last thing you said?
Pyrrha: (You think you can just fall in love with him? After all the work I put in? after all my efforts to find out what crimes are least morally reprehensible?)
Ruby: I said he was dense! Like! Muscle wise! Like Nora?
Pyrrha: (he's as dense Muscle-wise as he is dense socially! I made certain of it!)
Jaune: that's probably not true, Rubes, but I'm certain he'd appreciate the Compliment.
Pyrrha: (Stabbing and Maiming and Murder and Death and Slicing you to pieces-)
Jaune: Hey, Pyrrha? You okay? You haven't said anything in awhile, and you have that look in your eye you get when Cardin's too close to me.
Pyrrha: Huh? Yes, I'm Sorry! I just got caught up in my own head! Ehehe~
~The Next Day~
Jaune: You Vile Creature! Hath you no shame!
Pyrrha: Oh? Shame? Perhaps you could give me a lesson in it? If only you could Stop me.
The Red huntress has our hero tied in old cables! She struts over, sashaying her hips, holding his chin as though to steal a kiss from his lips!
Pyrrha: Unfortunately, I have already won, stealing all the Recyclable materials from these public dumpsters, and they're already being shipped to the Recycling plant! Muwahaha!
???: Even for such a noble cause as protecting our land, dumpster diving is still an illegal activity!
Jaune: Huh?
Pyrrha: Huh? Who's there?
Who's this? A Newcomer? Who is the Hero's Hero?
Ruby: I am!
Ruby Rose, clad in her usual dressings, simply switching the places where Red and Black Reside! A perfect Disguise!
Ruby: Release that Brave man at once, and Allow me, The Rouge Rogue, To arrest you whilst saving him!
Jaune: Hold on young lady, I must ask that you choose a different name, for those who may have dyslexia!
Ruby: oh, ummm. How about The Rouge Renegade?
Pyrrha: Does that mean you've turned your back on villainy?
Ruby: Um - Well. I mean, my backstory was that I was a bad guy, but because a good guy saved me I had decided to stop other criminals, but I can't be a 'good' guy because of my past actions? and the fact I'm a vigilante?
Jaune: A little basic but Serviceable.
Pyrrha: Yeah that's fine.
Ruby: Okay then! *Clears Throat* Release that Brave man at once, and Allow me, The Rouge Renegade, To arrest you whilst saving him!
Pyrrha: You? A paltry excuse of an anti-Hero? What could you possible do to stop me from keeping him for myself?
Ruby: THIS!
Ruby Petal Bursts, catching Jaune and whisking him away from Pyrrha!
Pyrrha: Drat! She's too fast for me!
Jaune: I must thank you for the save fair maiden, but why did you save me? You said yourself that you believe you could not be a 'good' guy due to your past?
Ruby: I must protect the light that I may be part of!
Jaune: A noble cause, But there is Goodness in you, as there is goodness in the Huntress! If I could show that truth, I would
Ruby: Perhaps there is a way?
Jaune: OH?
Ruby: Perhaps ... a kiss?
Jaune: Very well then *hands her a chocolate* It may be Off-brand, but the Cacao was harvested in humane ways! Farewell Renegade, and May you find your path the the Light!
Ruby: Huh.
Ruby: Jaune likes this brand.
Ruby: What a neat Coincidence!
As our Heros and Villainess return home, I must thank those above that Ruby and Jaune had parted ways! For if they hadn't their combined density could have caused a singularity!
Will Pyrrha Confess her Feelings? Will Ruby or Jaune Figure out the truth behind the others identities? What happened to Zwei for that last part?
All that and more next time in the Huntsman Adventures!
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mnoxsk · 2 years
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Hand Holding (Spy x Family x Male! Reader)
Characters: Loid Forger, Yuri Briar, Franky Franklin, PLATONIC! Anya Forger
Genre: Fluff(/Comfort for Anya’s part)
Summary: You/They decide to hold their/your hand for the first time not only because you want to see their reaction but you’ve grown comfortable with them in a relationship (romantically however this WILL NOT apply to Anya. Only platonically.)
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-If you initiate it first he will look at you surprised and surprised but will calm down, smiling (and slightly blushing). He will ask you if he can kiss you and if you say yes, EXPECT THIS MAN TO KISS YOU LIKE THERE’S NO TOMORROW! :) He will most definitely kiss you on the lips before showering you with kisses on different parts of your face, neck, collar bone, adam’s apple, ANYWHERE THAT HE KNOWS YOU’RE OKAY WITH HIM DOING AT! However if you don’t feel comfortable yet or he can tell you’re lying that you don’t mind him kissing you, HE WILL NOT PRESSURE YOU AND WOULD JUST KEEP HOLDING YOUR HAND! Keep in mind he’ll also trace your hand he’s holding yours with using his other free hand! (ALSO THIS WHOLE TIME EXPECT HIM TO EITHER BE IN PURE TRANQUIL BECAUSE HE FEELS SO AT PEACE WITH YOU!)
- However if he’s the one initiating it he’ll start very slow doing it! He’ll start with touching your pinky with his, slowly making his way to your other fingers gently, so you won’t feel pressured to forcefully hold his hand. Once you finally hold hands he’ll be smiling to himself tenderly, thinking to himself how happy and grateful he is being in a relationship with his boyfriend (while lowkey screaming inside happily)!
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-If you were the one initiating the hand holding,  expect this man to be a blushing mess! Even though he knew you were slowly but surely initiating that you were going to hold his hand, THIS MAN IS RATHER TOUCH STARVED ROMANTICALLY! Another thing to expect is him to be a studdering mess to the point he’ll just stop trying to talk and staying where you are blushing! Not only that but YOU’RE HOLDING HIS HAND FOR THE FIRST TIME? *He’s currently lagging*  -However if he was the one initiating it, HE WILL SURELY BE DRUNK. This man will not even be able to do even the simplistic of things in a relationship and you being his boyfriend (kissing, hand holding, basically the physical romantic stuff) WITHOUT YOU DOING IT FIRST! This man though when he’s the one inciting the hand holding first makes you feel like there’s so much happening (whether you think it’s in a good or bad way)! 
-He will cutely be complaining how you’ve never held his hand and will be drunkenly sad, asking if you don’t love him enough. If he doesn’t say that though he will most definitely say things he usually wouldn’t say to you when sober! Like how much he really loves you, asking to hold hands, hug, kiss, ect (not only because he’s needy for you but he wants to know if you’re okay with certain things he does AND IS A MAN OF CONSENT WHETHER SOBER OR NOT)!
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- You: *Holds his hand* | Franky: *His brain currently delaying with what the hell is happening* Wait that’s illegal. HE REALLY WON’T EXPECT IT! He was totally okay that you weren't comfortable with taking things too fast, kissing or holding hands! He even praised and thanked you for openly communicating with him because not only did he want to make sure that he would do anything wrong in the future with him but in his morals book, THAT PROVES THAT YOU ALREADY TRUST HIM ENOUGH TO INFORM YOU OF WHAT YOU LIKE AND DON’T!  So when you just suddenly hold his hand he’s really happy but also a bit concerned because he’ll ask that if you’re really okay with holding his hand right now! When you tell him that you’re comfortable enough to hold his hand he’ll say “Ah okay.” WHILE HE’S BLUSHING! He’s very flustered because with more trust and affection you give with you being his boyfriend HE JUST MELTS AND FALLS MORE IN LOVE WITH YOU! <33
-As for how he’ll initiate the hand holding. He never will. REALLY! HE’S THE MOST CONSENSUAL MAN OUT OF THIS WHOLE POST (AND I’LL ARGUE IF YOU SAY OTHERWISE)! He may think  or consider holding your hand or kissing you but since he knows your boundaries right now, he won’t try it! Only you can bring it up with him and tell him to kiss or hold hands and believe me, he thinks consent from you is hot (romantically)! You say you want to cuddle? GLADLY! Want to hold hands and kiss? WILL GLADLY DO SO! He just really loves you being his boyfriend so much and respects your boundaries!
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-If you initiate it, it will probably be during strolls with her or when you sing her a lullaby to sleep! Whether your her big brother (when she considers you that when you’re also a spy) or uncle (that loves killing gross men and displays them as art), she still considers you family! And trust me, as much as holding her hand may be rare this is not your first time doing so with her! Alot of people also mistaken you to be her father during your strolls with her and have to explain to them that! As for when singing her to sleep, she usually does accidentally sleep outside her room and carried to be tucked in bed  however for those more sleepless nights she wants her hand to be held! Even though she knows it may never happen and is on the back of her head, she’s afraid of losing her family when she wakes up. :( So when you hold her hand when singing or reading her a book to sleep it helps SO MUCH with that fear!
-As for when she does, it’s usually to comfort you! Even adults have their lows, she understands that when she’s with her mama so how can she not comfort her uncle?  
After taking a stroll at the park with Anya, you both decide to take a rest by sitting on a near by bench. She clearly sees that you’re rather upset but won’t say it so she reads your thoughts. “My ex is still trying to find me. I did everything so they wouldn’t reach me but the thought of them getting near me makes me so unsettled...” You thought to yourself, slightly shuddering your worried face. That was until Anya reaches out to hold your hand. “It’s okay big brother/uncle, Papa, Mama, and I will always be there for you.” She says with a confident face. Even though you didn’t know how Anya knew what was thinking, her words bring you at ease as you rub her head softly. “Thanks sis/Anya. That really meant alot to me.” You smile gently at her.
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alpaca-clouds · 8 months
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Law is not a good base for morals
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I have a friend. Who is a lawyer. And... we tend to discuss a lot about morals.
Why? Well, because I am an anarchist and he... he is a lawyer. And as the latter he kinda loves to base his morals and understanding a lot around the law. Why I am very certain of one thing: Law is not a good thing to build yur morals on.
Let me make one thing clear: Anarchism is still very much the absense of hierarchies. Not the absense of rules. But... the juristic systems we have right now are very much based around hierarchies existing. Hence... they are a problem.
Whenever we speak about right and wrong it is not really hard to find those examples, where people are working against the law but are acting in a morally acceptable way.
The classical example is the following: Someone is starving. They do not have money. So, they steal food. Can you really fault them for stealing? Is stealing from a big coorporate supermarket really a morally wrong thing to do here?
Or let me get out my environmentalist gear and say: Okay, if someone was to blow up that pipeline in an attempt to prevent climate change... Did they act morally wrong?
The later example is of course not even so unrealistic. Because right now the governments in general try to outlaw all sorts of climate protests. I mean, in Germany we have the police violently working against the climate protests and using laws against these peaceful protests.
But... those examples are also not the only reason why laws are shitty to base your morals on.
Because... laws are biased. And they can be used in any way possible. A good example is that: Yes, at one point in time having a slave was legal, while helping that slave escape was illegal. But these days we do not need to discuss which of those actions is morally good and which is morally aprehensible.
I kinda think that laws as we have and enforce them these days are actually making it harder for a lot of people to act morally good. While not in the way we have had during slavery or third reich Germany or what not... There is still a lot of actually bad, unmoral stuff enshrined in law to this day. And... We should learn to acknowledge that
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heinzezsquirt · 2 years
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Byler is morally wrong. Repent. facts don’t care about your feelings. Byler will never happen, no matter how cute it seems to you and your kind, and Mike and El are endgame. Byler would be sinful if it happened because practicing homosexuality is a sin. Every word you speak is a lie and can be wielded against you. Every word I speak is backed up by the Bible. God loves all but he doesn’t condone sin. God wiped out Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis 19 for their homosexuality and he would do it again in a heartbeat for countries that condone things like Byler. Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 make plain that homosexuality is an abomination. And yes that’s in the Old Testament along with other ceremonial laws but the New Testament backs it up over and over again. Romans 1:26-28 explicitly reads, “For this reason God gave them up to DISHONORABLE passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing SHAMELESS acts with men and receiving in themselves the due PENALTY for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a DEBASED mind to do what ought not to be done.” If Byler happened, they’d be giving into dishonorable passions. Very clear. Not much ambiguity there. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 makes clear that practicing homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God, neither will murderers or swindlers or thieves but only ones who repent. So I’m sorry to say but canon Byler would mean Mike and Will won’t see heaven. 1 Timothy 1:9-10 makes clear that the Law was made for sinners, which include practicing homosexuals. Jesus makes clear that marriage is between one man and one woman, so Byler would not be able to get “married.” It also would be illegal in the 80s so you are doubly wrong. But even if you hate the truth and disregard religion, homosexuality is unnatural/biologically incoherent, and will never result in fertility. It is wrong; spiritually, ethically, biologically, etc. You just like to fetishize two young boys kissing. Repent. I don’t hate gay people. I just can’t condone sin. I don’t believe God hates gay people. I don’t believe he hates anyone. But he does hate sin. And Byler is a sin. God’s not “all-loving” based on our own flawed standards; he’s all-loving based on his. And his holiness that can burn anything to a crisp is of paramount importance. He doesn’t care about what we “feel” about it. I don’t love Mike and El just because they’re straight: I love them cause of all their beautiful qualities. But I am AGAINST Byler because biblically it’s impossible to condone. And the millions of real Christians in America, many of whom watch Stranger Things, agree with me. Because it’s not my opinion; it’s God’s. Byler would be both incoherent and a very big mistake. There will be consequences.
lol didn't even have to read but the first couple of lines before i was bored. repent this dick.
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ask-the-cosmic-duo · 9 days
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Dear Stella,
What is love to you? <3 -Sweetie
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"Love? Hm..." Stellar took a moment to really think about that. She wasn't exactly experienced, but she at least sort of understood love. "May as well say what I know, huh?"
"To me, love is acceptance, support, and affection. Your lover shouldn't judge you for the weird things you might do, short of anything illegal or morally wrong. Hopefully I'm using that phrase right..." She cleared her throat, trying to focus. "Alongside that, they should support you, and they should care about you. It's a two-way street, though. You have to do the same for them. If that love is one-sided, it's probably not gonna last very long, y'know?"
"It also shouldn't be a requirement to love each other for you to stay together. Yes, romantic relationships are built on love, trust, and compassion. But the moment one of you starts to get obsessive, or tries to manipulate the other person, that's when the relationship becomes toxic. That's not love. As far as I'm concerned, that's a major problem."
"Besides, love is a road with ups and downs. You won't always be super in love with each other, wanting to do lewd things together. Sometimes, you just want to be with them, because you deeply care about each other. And that's okay. It doesn't mean your love is gone, it just means you're... not feeling lewd, I guess?" The cosmic mare shrugged. "I'm not sure I fully understand that part."
"But here's the thing: love can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different ponies. Some are more traditional, and others not so much. Me? I'm panro-ace, I'm pretty sure. I'll love anypony, I just won't do... that. I'll do other things, just not that. Kinda... freaks me out for some reason."
She realized she got a tad sidetracked, and redirected her train of thought. "But other ponies might be aro-ace, while others are totally pansexual, and others still are what a lot of ponies only a few decades ago would consider 'normal'. Of course, that term is a bit misleading. Nopony's normal. Everypony's at least a little weird. That's what makes us interesting."
"Point is, you should try to answer this question for yourself. Find your boundaries, and define your form of love. It's not for anypony else to decide but you." Stellar smiled. "Be yourself, Sweetie Belle. That should be enough."
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I haven't checked your blog in a while but now I have to send this message about body autonomy. I have a friend who is a gardener here in Italy, she is outside nearly all the time in any weather and gets lot of sunburns in summer because she doesn't use sun cream. Everyone in her friends and family tells her how dangerous it is to not protect her skin. She told me once that her grandfather did the same and died of skin cancer. She still doesn't want to use cream.
I think this is a good example of autonomy because even if it's a harmful and bad choice, it is her own choice. She is informed about the consequences and made the choice to not use sun cream. Yes, it is harmful but she is an adult and no one can force her to do something she doesn't want. To force her to use it by threatening her or physically putting it on her would be morally wrong and also illegal. It goes against her freedom.
(Sorry about the bad English 🥲 I just wanted to send this.)
And like just because she could potentially have that happen doesn’t mean she inherently will. It’s still very much unadvisable but it’s not a 100% guarantee.
And like doctors cannot force treatment on to you even if you’re going to die without it. They can warn you of that and advise you what they personally think is best but ultimately if you refuse it, they have to respect that.
Body autonomy means that yes, some people will do things that are potentially or outright detrimental to their health. It’s still their body. You don’t have to agree with how they act but there isn’t a lot you can do about it without taking their body autonomy away. Which would be wrong.
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