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heyitspersephone · 6 months

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Thinking about stranger things again now that the strikes are over and how, narratively, it would be way, WAY cooler to have Mike get Vecna’d instead of Will in s5

It’s just something about the way Mike’s trauma is never addressed or handled in any way?? Like, he hugs his mom twice and then when he was depressed in season 2 and 4 nobody did anything (his parents scolded him for his behavior in s2 ig but that’s not support). His best friend went missing leaving from his house, he watched his body get pulled from the quarry, watched El (in his eyes) kill herself stopping the demogorgon, watched Will be possessed, saw Bob die, was in Star Court when everything went down, saw Billy die, had his best friend move away, was SHOT AT (and really too few people talk about the shooting in Cali bc omg??), buried a body, and watched the apocalypse start. And that’s just off the top of my head.

(And yes I’m aware that the other characters (especially Will) are traumatized too but I will get to my point in a second just hold on)

The plot is geared towards this idea that Will and Henry have to have some big face off (and they should, in my opinion, but I don’t think it should be in a possession, or at least not the the Vecna kind of possession, yk?) but that makes it all the better, writing wise, to have mike be the one in danger. Will was helpless and hiding in s1, I think Will should get his big strong moments in s5 where he gets to be the hero of the story.

It would just be a lot more fun to work with Mike being Vecna’d than Will, because what are we going to bring up with Will’s visions? His dad? His sexuality? The events of s1 from his perspective? It would be cool to see, for sure, but we already know most of that. Mike, on the other hand, has a number of untapped things, like jumping off the quarry, why he’s so hesitant to tell El he loves her, how someone who was smart and kind enough to take El in in s1 and come up with the spy and sauna plans in s2 and s3 could turn into the oblivious asshole that he was in s3 and s4 (he needs therapy, ik, I still love his character but I want to explore the reasons he went from his s2 characterization to his s3 one)

It would be a very interesting parallel, I think, to explore Mike’s thought processes in this way, especially with all of Mike’s repression business (bc whether you ship byler or milkvan he is repressing his feelings HARD. Like, beyond his inability to say I love you there’s the fact that he doesn’t bring up the apparent many times he called pre-s4 during the Rink O Mania fight?? That literally would’ve absolved him of guilt in that argument since he WAS reaching out to Will the whole time? Hellooooo????).

Anyways, this all brings me to my main point: Vecna targets isolation as much as he targets trauma and guilt. The whole party was traumatized by the events in s1, s2, and s3, but Max was the one targeted. Plus, Henry went for Fred, Chrissy, and Patrick (I think his name was Patrick) instead of going for the perceivably easy targets that the mcs would make (ik narratively that would’ve made it more boring but shhh), so why Max and those three specifically? They were isolated. Lucas and Erica have each other, Dustin goes to Steve and Robin, Will and El have each other and Jonathan and Joyce, Nancy probably goes to Jonathan, and who does Mike go to?

No one. And don’t say Nancy because if those two have heart to hearts then I’m the next coming of Christ. Max separated herself from the Party in the aftermath of her grief and guilt over Billy, and it feels quite obvious that Mike was doing the same (like I said, he has repression issues). So Mike is traumatized, alone, and guilty (be it Will getting taken from Mike’s house, losing El in front of him multiple times, the many deaths he has witnessed, or the internalized homophobia angle), which makes him more of a target than Will, in my opinion (or at least an easier one, especially given his tendency to put himself on the line during fights (quarry, most of s2, s3 mindflayer fight), which would set him up on the suicidal ideation path)

Furthermore, as I’ve seen a few other people point out (and I can’t find the posts but one of them had eight screenshots of the various moments), Mike is always the one getting in the way, so it would be a strategic move for Henry to target him to get him out of the picture. Mike was the one that found El and got her involved in saving Will s1, he was the one who came up with the spy plan and called out the ambush in s2, he was the one to monologue Will out of his possession s2, he was the one with the sauna plan for Billy in s3, he was the one trying to help El get the strength to fight s4 (even if the monologue sucked ass it’s the intention that counts). As much as people like to hate on Mike, he is in the leader position most of the time when the party is grouped up (barring his mental health struggles slowing that down beginning of s3 and throughout s4, but he’s still capable of it). He’s the idea man, and he’s the one whose character’s foundations were built on the desire to keep his friends safe, so it would be a very fun plot line to watch him be the one targeted in s5. Like Will said, as lovestruck and cheesy as he was, Mike is the heart of the party when he’s on his A-game, so Henry should 100% be trying to keep him in the issues he’s been struggling with.

Obviously, Will and El are the Targets with a capital T for Henry since they’re the ones that got away or whatever, but I think Mike is a weakness of Will’s (and El’s tbh but also I think they need to have separate character arcs and I don’t exactly ship milkvan) that should be exploited.

TL;DR: Mike should get Vecna’d instead of Will in s5 because it would make sense in lore and be a very cool way to resolve his character arc

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careful-wish · 3 months

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I know that Eddie had to die bc plot reasons yada yada

But they could have done that in season 5. We had so many deaths deaths in 4 (tho Max did end up living). The stakes are higher in season 5 and having a beloved character die halfway through would have had such an emotional impact

But also Eddie and Argyle not being included in season 5 with the other older kids feel like a joke, especially Argyle.

Nancy is the only one of the older teens (now young adults) to have a real close friendship with someone (Barb). Could probably argue Eddie too bc of Gareth, Jeff, and that other guy in Hellfire but they're younger than him so Idk how long they've been friends or how close they actually are.

In s4, though it's through super unlikely circumstances, Eddie does develop friendships with Steve, Nancy, and Robin. Probably, he already has had some interaction with Robin and Jonathan in the past due to the fact all three were considered weirdos or freaks (Jonathan was The School Freak(tm)) but he had no interaction with Jonathan this season.

Jonathan after being apart from Nancy for a few months then meets Argyle and they become pretty close mates, weed aside. Jonathan finally has someone he can talk to and open up to, and you can tell Argyle genuinely does care for Jonathan and is a LITERAL ride-or-die for him.

Why, WHY did they take Eddie and Argyle away? Yeah, we get the monster-hunting trio back in s5 along with Robin and Vickie in the group, but why'd they take Argyle away? He is also wanted by the government and knows everything. We're just going back to Jonathan having no friends, Nancy really having to confront what happened to Barb, and only Steve having a best mate? Why does Steve get to keep his best friend and Jonathan doesn't?

Also, the group would have been a little bigger than the Party but the dynamics and just absolute chaos would have been amazing.

Steve realising he is absolutely outnumbered by nerds and that he is not the leader, that role goes to Nancy and her babygurl Jonathan.

Vickie being introduced in a group that has several very loud ppl (Steve, Argyle, Robin), joins them immediately and Jonathan goes insane bc the four chatter like kookaburras at three am.

Nancy insisting they need to be discreet and Argyle explaining that while yeah, having an all black van would be cool but bad guys have those too and they would blend in better with a pizza van bc "Who would question the pizza man, Wheeler?"

Eddie secretly having tons of respect for Jonathan and nearly falls over himself trying to make up for the fact he tried to push another guy at Jonathan's girlfriend. Also develops similar respect for Nancy and feels guilty after seeing how happy Nancy is with Jonathan, and also realising it was never his, Robin, Steve, or anyone else's decision what Nancy does or who she wants to be with, it's all her.

Vickie learning about everything but still not knowing the kids very well and fellow newcomer Argyle is like "Idk about the others but Little Byers and Wheelie-boy are good, and of course our amazing super-powered little friend"

Steve discreetly being a terrible wingman for Robin without accidentally outing her. She comes out to Nancy first, then Argyle on accident after they have a weed sesh ("You're good, Batman's sidekick, boobies are great"), and of course ends up with Vickie.

Mike being the one of the Party Vickie ends up bonding with the most, mainly so they can make fun of Steve together but also other reasons

Anyway, we were robbed of these seven chaos nerds being a group together.

And if Eddie were to die halfway through, the turmoil. Dies similar to s4, Dustin is there, but it not only affects Dustin and Hellfire, but the other six he'd started becoming close with.

#i should just write a fic shouldn't i #stranger things #nancy wheeler #steve harrington #jonathan byers #robin buckley #eddie munson #argyle stranger things #vickie stranger things #jancy #stoncy #steddie #rockie #rovickie #robin x vickie

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skeletal-butterflyy · 7 days

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#There are more but alas only so many options I can offer #stranger things #stranger things 5 #st5 speculation #st5 poll #mike wheeler #will byers #lucas sinclair #dustin henderson #el hopper #max mayfield #nancy wheeler #jonathan byers #steve harrington #robin buckley #joyce byers #jim hopper

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starry-eyed-steve · 26 days

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Okay, so normally, I scroll past any ridiculous Steve takes, especially when it comes to death theories or theories about s5 in general. However, I just saw such a bad take that it actually made me angry, I need to make my own post. (Warning, this gets a bit petty towards the end)

Basically, the OP claimed Steve needs to die in s5 for the following reasons:

He has nothing going on in his life. He works a minimum wage job and is stuck in his hometown

He only has Robin and the kids, nothing else

It would not be satisfying if he lived

Steve can't grow more as a character because he already had too much development, so it would be better to end it there

He's only useful for protecting the group and nothing else

His death would be great for other characters because if he scarifices himself, the others are then able to go out in the world, live their lives, and do great things

Okay, that's a lot to unpack here, and I'm kinda speechless people really have such a low opinion about him.

First of all, saying Steve has nothing going on because he works a minimum wage job and doesn't have a concrete plan for the future is such a weird thing to say. He has a job, and even if it's not the best paid one, he still has an income. It's not like he's has nothing to do after he graduated (which he did the first time). If you think Steve needs to have it all figured out by 19 in order to be allowed to live, kindly fuck off. Almost no character has a concrete plan for the future. We never see Robin talk about her plans as well. Besides Nancy wanting to go to Emerson, we don't really know anything about the other characters' plans. The idea that minimum wage jobs are considered as something not worth pursuing or that your life must suck if you have them reeks of privilege. Not everyone can or wants to get a college degree. The people who work in customer service or have manual labor jobs are very valuable members of society, and to imply just because Steve has a minimum wage job working at a video store, so he better dies, is a horrible take. But also again, he is 19 (!!!) and should be allowed to have opportunities to figure out his plans for the future. Plus, he explicitly told us his end goal, he wants a loving partner and kids, and that's reason enough to keep going. (Even if he wouldn't have this goal or plan, he deserves time to figure things out, seeing as he lived his life in survival mode for the past 4 years.)

I also really don't get the second point. What is wrong about Steve having a real friend and a group of people he cares about? Shouldn't that be reason enough for him to keep living? Shouldn't having friends who you care about and who care about you automatically count as something that is enough. Besides, again, he also has a job, likes to go on dates, and it's implied he's still into sports.

The other characters also have each other. They hang out all the time to play their dnd games. Jonathan only has one friend (who now isn't even in the show anymore) and a gf. Nancy barely has any friends as well, besides her bf, who wants to slow mo break up with her. Should they die because they only have like 2 people they are close with? Or is it different because they want to go to college and do well in school, which is the only good purpose characters are allowed to have in order to be deemed worthy of living?

Imo it wouldn't be satisfying if Steve would die after everything he has been through. The show beats him to a pulp every season. He was tortured, maimed, and he sacrificed already so much for the group. He has the most physical trauma, besides Hopper. Even if the show doesn't address it, it's still there. (I hate it sm, but also I blame mostly on limited time that almost no character gets to explore their trauma.) It would be such a disservice to his character if he went through all of that for nothing. What kinda message is that? Killing off the character who is the most hopeful despite everything he went through is not satisfying. None of the main characters' deaths would feel satisfying after going through the horrors like that. (Besides Murray because fuck him)

If you think a character or person can only grow so much until they reach some arbitrary point where they are the perfect version of themselves, you're pretty naive. Nobody stops growing. Even if someone goes through growth, you don't stop your whole life. Maybe start rooting for an arc for Steve, where he gets even better. Where he gets to figure things out, where he becomes a better version of himself. You wouldn't say this to any other character. Just because his growth arc was more noticeable doesn't mean all your other faves didn't grow. Do you want them to stop living because they made choices to be a better person?

You're really underestimating Steve's relationship to the group if you think he's nothing more than a punching bag to them. How can you watch the show and really think this. He's Robins best friend, he helps her grow and be comfortable. He's Dustin's older brother figure. He gives him comfort, and he will most likely help him in s5 with his grief over Eddie. Even with Max, he functions as a brother figure, especially in contrast to her stepbrother. Yes, his primary role in the group is fighter and protector, but he is more than that. He's a friend and important to so many characters.

I think the last point was the thing that made me angry the most. All those other takes I've seen time and time again, but this last one is just disgusting. First of all again to imply that Steve can't do great things because he doesn't have a career plan at 19, which is just gross. And then if you also think the other characters would be so appreciative of this as if they don't give a fuck about Steve. Like Robin and Dustin would be devastated, how much of his death would affect them and their plans to do amazing things? They would be severely depressed and untreated (lets be real mental health issues were not taken super seriously up until recently) they will live with those impacts for the rest of their lives. Trust me I know how terrible depression is and how it fucks with your life plans. Maybe some characters who are not super close to him might use his death for motivation and to achieve those "great" things. But for most parts, his death would have a negative influence on them, on top of the trauma they already endured. If you think his death would only benefit the group, you're underestimating his impact on people. Like Dustin already has a hard time getting over Eddie, Robin would lose the only person who completely understands her, Max would lose another brother figure and a chance to bond with him more. Nancy would lose yet another person who was close to her. How many people should she lose until she snaps completely? But again, it's the implication that Steve's life is worthless because he doesn't go to college or has a shitty job or only has a few friends, that gets me. His life is worth less than other characters' lives because they seemingly have things figured out because they are (book) smarter than him. And btw Steve has a dream for the future, he wants a family and peace, he wants to be a better parent than his own parents were, and if you think that's meaningless or less great, then fuck you!

With those points and logic, Jonathan should also be a contender for character death in s5 as well. He doesn't have a job, he gets high with his only friend who won't be there in s5, he didn't apply for his dream university, he's about to break up with his gf. Jonathan only has his family and barely any growth over the seasons. He is a very stale character. In other words, according to those points made by OP, he has nothing going on and should sacrifice his life for the group as some form of character development.

Or Robin should also die in s5 according to those points. After all, all she has going on for her is a minimum wage job she works with her best friend, school, and a so far miserable love life. We don't know any of her future plans so fuck her I guess. She better sacrifice herself for the group. Or is she allowed to live because she's smarter than Steve (which is a pretty ableist thing to say) and gets to embark on a romantic journey next season?

To sum it up, stop saying Steve has to die because you think his life is meaningless because he's a teenager who hasn't things figured out. Stop saying shit along the lines that Steve isn't smart enough to get to have a life. Stop implying that intelligence is the most valuable thing a person can have and anyone who might lack it is deemed as less worthy of living. Stop saying Steve can't do amazing things if he doesn't go to college and therefore shouldn't be allowed to live. And stop deeming Steve's dream of a family as less meaningful (or meaningless) than academic/career successes. He deserves to live like every other character in the show.

#i'm sorry for being so angry and petty about this #i just can't stand those takes anymore #just say you hate steve and go #and maybe stop putting that shit in the tags and disguise it as s5 speculation #sandra says stuff #if anyone has thoughts about it i'm happy to discuss it with you #steve harrington #stranger things #stranger things steve #stranger things discussion

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the-fire-might-be-shooting-at-us · 10 months

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EDDIE STANS LOOK AWAY RN <333

How did I just see the worst prediction ever like someone said Steve is going to die in S5 and I was like okay I see it but then they were like he's going to be killed by a possessed Eddie who will later get exorcised and it will be heartbreaking

STFUUUU

HE'S DEAD HE'S DEAD HE'S NOT COMING BACK MOVE ON I'M BEGGING

Like Eddie's cool but don't bring my bf into this

Also some people out there really go out and about as Robin and Eddie stans while hating on Steve??? Like no hate on Robin obv but Eddie was there for ONE season and died like Lucas Nancy and Steve had more development how are you out there calling him the most developed 😭

Okay sorry I like Eddie I promise I just am full of hatred sometimes

#rem does stuff and panics #stranger things #steve harrington #robin buckley #nancy wheeler #lucas sinclair #anti eddie munson #anti steddie

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noodlesbatches · 4 months

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#stranger things #mike wheeler #will byers #el hopper #jim hopper #joyce byers #jonathan byers #stevebucky #steve harrington #robin buckley #lucas sinclair #max mayfield #dustin henderson #nancy wheeler #stranger things s5 #elmike #byler

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bugsbenefit · 6 months

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Who’s going to die in s5 and does anyone even need to die?

putting my thoughts on this out there now because i'm curious how they will hold up with s5 canon or if the characters that i think are narratively untouchable will bite it in the opening

because objectively, no, no one needs to die. not every story needs to kill off major characters to be "dramatic". strangers things has even gone out of it's way to avoid doing that since it’s first season. the characters that Do die are always ones that were introduced in the same season with the specific purpose of dying. Barb, Alexei, Eddie, all the vecna victims

they even skirt killing main characters, like how Eddie in s4 seems to be the placeholder for Steve since they didn’t want to kill him yet. there’s also interviews saying they wanted to kill him in s1 or 2 but then didn’t because they liked his character and wanted to keep him in the story. (also a fan favourite character too yk). similarly El was also supposed to die in s1, but even before st becomes a multi season show it's implied she’s alive right in the last minutes of s1

so while St sure loves killing people (see just how many people died in lab massacre 1 in 1979, lab massacre 2 in 1984, and the flesh flayer human meat incident) you’re pretty save as long as you’re a main character and survived your first season on the show

so s5 continuing with that and not killing any main characters is definitely an option, they don't need to kill. no matter how much the audience is waiting for "stakes" to be set, not every story needs to kill it's characters

on the other hand, there’s also a lot that suggests they might kill someone for real this time. challenging the perceived safety of main characters in the last season with a world ending stakes set up in s4 seems reasonable. there’s also the more theoretical perspective that we're in the final season now and there’s no coming back for any of these characters anyway, no matter if they live or die. the logic of making it to the next season that saved some of their asses before no longer applies

it would also make sense and not be uncommon for a story to kill someone important during the final installment to make it apparent how BadTM it is. most of the audience is also aware by now that the show isn't killing long running mains so changing that rule would serve the final season well (especially if it happened before the last 2 episodes and put people more on edge for the finale, now that mains apparently aren't completely invincible anymore)

so leading up to s5, I really think the chance of them killing at least one major character for real this time is the highest it’s ever been. the question would just be, who? and I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone agree on this ever so I just want to go it over myself, get my thoughts on this out pre s5 spoilers rolling in. trying to evaluate how solid a build up for a death would be

going over various characters under the cut

there’s obviously some side characters that could reasonable die but I think would be the weakest choices, if not an outright joke at an attempt of “emotional impact” on the story

for example, they could kill Murray, there’s really nothing stopping them, but it wouldn’t be a very impactful death. the only one who has a real connection with him is Joyce. if they wanted to kill more than one character I can see them going for it, especially if they killed Murray earlier and had a bigger character die towards the end of the season. but otherwise, if he’s the only one dying it’d be funnily underwhelming. this also goes for Dimitri (depending on if he will be back for s5). easy to kill but would suck phenomenally as the only death

same for characters like Vicky and Argyle, who are both incredibly new characters so killing them would be very underwhelming. here with the added aspect of them both being minorities, and while you can obviously kill minority characters just fine, if they were the only characters dying it would look pretty bad compared to the 90% white and het cast that’d be alive. killing Vicky with her ongoing romance plot where they need to establish an entire relationship first would also be obviously stupid

moving to main and secondary characters of the show that have more significance. secondaries like:

Robin, who like Vicky and Argyle, would also be a weak choice. killing her at the end of her romance arc set up for s5 would be extremely unsatisfying in a way that doesn’t fit any of the shows themes. also again, killing just her would look horrible, and even if two people died, she’s been the public queer rep of the show before they officially had Will too post s4, would be kind of an insane choice to kill her

Steve on the other hand has much more merit to him. he’s the character we know the Duffers wanted to kill years ago and only held back due to the actors charisma and potential they saw for his story. and both of these points would be moot in a final season of the show. there’s also been enough foreshadowing of a death that would stand out on a rewatch and make it feel more planned. like the funnily long handshake he and Dustin have in s3 including Dustin stabbing Steve and him “dying”. killing him would also work to impact a significant number of characters as well as the audience since he IS a fan favourite. on the other hand, it would be a bit questionable to kill the other "guy that's close with Dustin" right after he had Eddie die on him. Eddie was a pretty clear place holder for Steve in s4, so killing Steve the season after wouldn’t be very different from a storytelling pov. but I could see them go for it, easy death, enough set up, potential to be upsetting, not whole show-vibe ruining

because compared to that, Hopper is someone I honestly don’t see dying at all. he not only had a full fake out death, the whole of s4 russia arc was about getting him back alive. if they just kill him anyways most of s4 will feel pretty pointless, especially after he’s Just at the point where he might see that he isn’t a curse on all the people around him. killing him would negatively impact his character growth AND fall flat with him already having died and come back right after. killing him fr right after he came back would honestly just be really funny, like, i don't know how serious people would even take it, i'd just expect him to come back again tbh

Joyce… is just kind of out there. killing her off would be brutal with how central of a character she is. her and Mike really were the two plot leading characters all the way back in s1 and her character seems to be a bit of a face of ST alongside with characters like El. it would also be rough on Will and Jonathan, like, character altered forever rough, so if she died these characters would have to change drastically. which would need her death to happen before the last two episodes if they wanted to do it justice. and killing her that early on would also feel odd with how much she’s a part of the core story. and of course there’s the whole deal with her just having gotten together with Hopper which should at least give her a few episodes of protection to explore that. overall, I think they could do it, but they would have to be insanely careful to pull it off well and I’m not sure it’s something they’d go for or something that's even possible to do well with only 8-9 episodes

Jonathan is someone a lot of people seem to think could die, but I also feel like a that idea comes from general lack of interest in his character. he Could die, yeah, it would also be interesting how characters dealt with it, but just like with Joyce, killing him off in the last episode would very much feel like a cheap kill for shock value since the strongest aspect of killing a character like him would be seeing the ripples it has over the story. and killing him would also put an extremely tragic end to his character arc which he hasn’t finished yet. he’s constantly parentified, steps back in favour of other people, he still couldn’t tell Nancy he wants something different than her for college, and so on. his s5 arc would have to focus more on his own growth over the series and accepting himself and his worth, so dying would be insanely tragic for him. again I feel like they Could do it, but it’s questionable if they’d be able to do it justice and not make it feel like his character is from a Shakespearean tragedy while everyone else is from a different genre

Just on reflex, Nancy is someone I don’t see dying. killing her would be really bold. all with her being one of the few women, and a character that's always been near the center of the story, and with her being the deciding party in the middle of a love triangle. but on the other hand, I could see some merit in killing her. she was the main leader in s4 and arguably already had her moment to shine when she shot Vecna (even if they still lost, it was arguably the most epically framed “win” moment of the season). she also finally got some closure on Barb’s death, ie. knowing Vecna killed her. you could also definitely argue that it would be interesting if Nancy was the one to ultimately die instead of the vision where she saw her mom, Holly, and Mike, dead (or implied to be dead, she doesn't say the word). so the longer I think about it, the more I could see a positive impact on the story. but it'd still be rough, and it would mean upsetting both Jancy and Stancy shippers by having neither have a happy ending, which, actually, would be kind of interesting, but I’m not sure the Duffers would go for

and then there’s of course the kids where it gets really hard imo. both based on the tone of ST and how it would be insanely dark

Erica is just someone I genuinely don’t think they can kill, ever. she’s the absolute youngest, also one of their 3 poc characters. don’t see any reality where she dies. they already didn't handle her character particularly well since her introduction so, no way they're insane enough to kill her

similar to my point about Hopper earlier, I also don’t see Max dying at all. she almost died in s4 during her initial encounter with Vecna, barely survived, and then got got for real and was dead pre El reviving her. her dying for real in s5 wouldn’t hit particularly hard anymore after she starts the season lost in some variation of a coma. her s5 arc already has to be about finding her, and presumably her dealing with the trauma of waking up. also whatever role she plays in the season, since we don’t know how many episodes it'll take before we can get her thoughts and actions again. killing her at the end would be kind of repetitive and absolutely fuck her character arc over since she just realized how badly she wanted to live regardless of her depression

El's character would also not have any benefit from dying, it would actively cut her character arc short, which has been a central point of every season up to now. her whole deal is learning that she’s not a monster that’s responsible for everything and figuring out who she actually wants to be as a person that can make her own decisions. her ending the series dying or sacrificing herself like so many people seem to think she will would be very weak writing imo. having her finally reach a point in s5 where she's free of Brenner, and guilt over what happened, and her het relationship with her boyfriend who doesn’t love her, and finally starts to realize who she wants to be, only to have her make the decision to die for the people she loves would just suck. it’d be compelling... if ST was a drama story and trying to tell a story of hopelessness. which is not at all what ST has been up until now and is also not what anyone involved has said s5 to be

Will is also unkillable without completely breaking the genre of the show. people are right that him dying in s5 would be full circle to s1. and showing the inevitability of the UD killing him after all and how he couldn’t get away would be fun sure, but it’s not stranger things. aside from actors already having said Will gets some form of happy ending, killing him just wouldn’t work. everyone was trying to get him back alive all the way back in s1. him eventually dying after all is a cool concept in theory, but it doesn’t work with the show at all

Mike is also hard to kill. with Byler happening, it would be insane to kill either of the two parties right after having them get together or confirm each other’s feelings. Mike is one of the characters with the most consistent allusions to something bad happening, especially in s4, with the whole set up of “hasn’t unpacked yet”, jaws poster, “death count is going to rise”, and Nancy’s whole vision about him presumably dying, but it’s much more likely he just won’t have a good time in s5, not die. he already had a fake out death as far back as s1 with the cliff, so if they want the show to go “full circle” they could just have him almost die again, or have someone Think he died for a bit. perma killing him just doesn't work with the mleven to byler arc they set up for s5

Lucas doesn’t have any death flags and there would be no benefit in killing him. killing Will for example would at least be interesting on a meta writing level if you disregard the genre of the show, but killing Lucas would just… feel insanely unjust, he's just a kid who already went through writing fuckery in s4. he also almost lost Max, and his s5 arc seems to be very focused on her and helping her. killing him off right after Max survived would just be plain bad. do not see Lucas dying in any reality

And Dustin is my "if they had to kill a kid". there Are some lines you could definitely catch on a rewatch post death that would make it feel less out of nowhere, be it the “if you die I die” said to Steve, or Suzie talking about Dustin feeling like it could foreshadow a death. Dustin also doesn’t have the protection someone like Mike has, where he’s in the central gay childhood best friends to lovers plotline

overall, I think Vicky and Argyle are essentially guaranteed to be fine. there’d be not much emotional payoff for the audience and only the killing of the few diverse characters of the cast. Robin would also be hard to kill without making it look weird with her just introduced romantic interest. Hopper and Max are too much “been there done that” to die for real. and the kids dying would at best seriously derail the expectations the show set until now and negatively fuck some of their character arcs over at worst

so. tldr, my thoughts on this: killing Joyce is possible imo, but extremely hard to do justice. similar sentiment about Jonathan, even more so bc it directly conflicts with his character's core struggle. killing Nancy would probably be the most interesting choice to go for, to me, if done well, but it’s something I don’t really see happen in the show. Steve seems like the most likely choice to die since he’d be a pretty easy kill, the audience and a significant amount of characters like him so it would have impact, there’s enough death flags to make it seem foreshadowed… would just work really well. and if any of the kids died it would have to be Dustin imo, even though I’m still of the belief that they won’t touch the kids when it comes to killing characters

also, Murray's just a free kill to me, not impactful enough on the characters to fully derail character arcs but still with the show long enough to be a bit sad to see go. if they’d kill only him it would be a bit wasted because it would feel like a copout of killing an impactful character, but if they want to kill a primary character and make stakes higher by killing someone else, Murray is the easiest to turn to for that, especially if they want someone to die in the earlier episodes

and this is just about the "main" characters (as a broad term here). characters that could also ofc die are other kids parents, police officers we know like Callahan, other side characters like Mr Clarke or the mayor. but most of these would not really have much impact on the story and would pass more as casualties along the way

the Wheelers are a bit of an in-between here, because while none of them get regular main character focus and don’t even know about the UD, they still come back every season on a personal level and have the most solid characterization out of side characters. Karen even has a noteworthy character arc, which none of the other side characters have. Holly will be fine honestly, Ted is really just there, not much screen time, i don't really see much benefit in having him die, if he did it would most likely have to be in passing or in mass casualties. so Karen would be the one I could realistically see be compelling to kill. as a side character I’d put her on a Murray level, where she’s consistently on screen and everyone knows her but she’s not really someone people would be upset for days about

the Murray treatment also goes for someone like Owens btw, where I could easily see him die as a side note (not as the main death). he's been with the show for a while but doesn't have enough impact on the story to really force you to keep him alive. there's for sure info we can still get from him in s5, but after we have a full picture of what happened with El and Henry at the lab and how Owens was involved there's really nothing keeping him alive as a character

and everyone's done, wall of thoughts over!

that’s where I’m at with all the characters as of now, especially from looking at their past arcs up to s4. I’m just really curious how this will hold up with the actual s5. Maybe they’ll just go in bold and kill someone I would have said has a 0 chance of dying right away, who knows who knows

#st s5 #st s5 predictions

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memes-saved-me · 2 years

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I hate to compare and pin these two against eachother but I truly believe Billy's death was more important than Eddie's. I love Eddie, he's great and his death had me sobbing but I find the reaction to his death very interesting regarding the hypocrisy of fans who before said Billy's death meant nothing when in fact it was very similar to Eddie's.

Eddie chose to stay and fight the bats to make sure they didn't go back to the house and attack Steve, Robin and Nancy but would they have gone back? If Dustin and Eddie had climbed through the gate and stayed there would the bats have turned tail and gone back? This just makes me think that his death was unnecessary and lazy writing to fulfill his coward to hero arch. However, when he cut the sheet he most likely knew he was going to die and he was willing to sacrifice himself for a town who wanted him dead. A genuine personal sacrifice in the face of danger.

Billy spent days possessed by we now know Vecna himself until a stranger, a little girl showed him a single gesture of comfort and genuine affection. Showed him one good memory and he stood up to die at the hands on the monster he had created. Without Billy Eleven would be dead and Vecna would have won in S4 without a doubt. Billy's death was necessary to save the world because Dustin decided to have a sing along with Susie, which also led to Hopper being tortured for 8 months but hey 🙄. Anyway, I find it frustrating that people say "Billy would have died anyway" or "His death doesn't redeem him" and one he didn't know that if the gate closed he'd most likely die and two yes I agree.

These two characters were brilliant additions to the show and unfortunately were killed off to fit the narrative and push characters in the direction they needed them to go. Without Billy's death Vecna would not have targeted Max and the party wouldn't have been able to solve what was going on. What Eddie's death will mean for Dustin in S5? We'll have to see but I for sure can see the party mentioning him as a hero when the only person to acknowledge Billy's sacrifice was Max.

#just rambles that I'm not tagging #stranger things spoilers

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hawkyon-days · 5 months

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My personal opinion on how likely the characters are to die in s5 from least to most likely, because I've spent way too much time thinking about this:

Erica (she's the youngest and has never been fully involved with the supernatural stuff, the only character where I'm absolutely sure that they're gonna be fine)

Max (she could die bc it would be easy to kill her in her current state, but I have enough trust in the writers for them to realise that that would be horrible storytelling)

Lucas (this might be absolutely delusional of me but as long as Max is fine, Lucas is gonna be too)

Dustin (unless they give him a major storyline he's gonna live)

Robin (I don't know where this trust in the writers comes from but they're not going to do a 'bury your gays', unless they put a lot of focus on her)

Hopper and Joyce (it feels like they should be higher on this list but bc they already had their whole fight for their loves romantic reunion thing, it seems stupid to simply kill them off)

Steve and Nancy (could go either direction, they both have final girl and 'should have died seasons ago' energy)

El (central character, always gets put in incredible danger bc she's the strongest, so many people and things want her dead)

Will (deeply connected with the upside down (and vecna?), higher on this on list than El bc he's gonna be important in s5)

Mike (twist ending! El and Will are most likely to die but he would sacrifice himself for either of them)

Jonathan (basically same reason as Mike; would die for his family, was treated like a joke character in s4, watch him be killed just so stancy can get back together)

#max mayfield #will byers #mike wheeler #steve harrington #nancy wheeler #el hopper #lucas sinclair #dustin henderson #jonathan byers #robin buckley #joyce byers #jim hopper #erica sinclair #this is all very reasonable to me #but i might put too much trust in the writers #no sane person would've brough back stancy #and look at what they did in s4...#my post

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emblazons · 1 year

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a post in defense of (a very much alive) S5 Jonathan Byers

under the cut b/c this is more frustrated commentary than strict analysis, and you shouldn't have to read if you don't want to.

I feel like it must have come from the dry spell between seasons, but I have to say it: all of this “Jonathan is gonna die and that means Stancy could happen” stuff lately is not only giving "I just like angst for its own sake," it's lowkey nonsense if you look at it thematically (in context of the Jon/Nancy/Steve madness yes, but especially in context of the Byers family).

—like? Friends.

Given the Duffer’s track record of refusing to fully kill off major characters even when it could have made sense to (cc: Hopper and Max), I don’t think anyone is actually meeting their end, but let’s be SO serious about who is actually likely to get axed: the boy with a mom, brother, step-sister and girlfriend who have been central to every single moment in this show…or the one they've put into a triangle we all thought was over until S4, who they’ve honestly written into a corner, & whose primary drive in four entire seasons was getting a girlfriend and protecting a bunch of teenagers?

I'm getting ahead of myself. Let's just talk Jonathan.

The Duffers (Matt especially) have openly gotten upset at even the notion of Mike dying because "that's depressing" AND "that's Nancy's brother" (showing the familial ties are a HUGE part of what would keep them from ending someone), in addition to them saying they've thought through every imaginable scenario" on who might die—

—and you think its Jonathan whose meeting his end? King of championing "not liking what you don't have to" and the outcasts in all areas from music taste to being queer...after all the Byers have been through and knowing The Duffers write toward championing the outcasts and those who embrace their differences?

That, combined with the fact that the only "evidence" I've ever seen for him potentially dying has been that speech he gave to Will in the SBP somehow being connected to (you guessed it) setting up angst for Will...I'm gonna take a hard and wild educated guess based on the entirety of the rest of the show and say that was literally written so Will could catch a goddamn break, not as a death tag.

The fact that Noah confirmed it wasn't in the Duffer's OG script, was written day of filming + was done because "it was important for people to see will wasn't alone" is evidence enough for that.

Even so, the fact that there are still at least 4 unresolved plots Jonathan is part and privy to makes his death even less likely, because it wouldn't make sense for resolving anything for him to die at all, never mind in the episodes before our supposed timeskip.

Jonathan's messy relationship with Nancy, the fact that he's the only one who actually knows Will is gay, and the fact that he's the only other character who saw & understood the ULTIMATE Chekhov's gun in the form of that painting (on top of also having a longstanding relationship with Mike )should make it clear he isn't going anywhere from a narrative perspective...and I'm not even sure where the idea that he would die popped up, other than fandom warping the canon and projecting onto the plot.

The Duffers have always been clear about not doing things solely for the sake of surprise + not liking things that don't make narrative sense...and Jonathan's death would be both of those things, done solely for shock value.

I just. Be so serious right now. if you want to imagine the weight of Jonathan dying SOLELY for fandom angst DO THAT...but don't pretend like his death in the show wouldn't be the most poorly foreshadowed thing in this entire show, on top of not matching a single theme of the ongoing Stranger Things narrative. ☠️

Put some respect on his name lmao

Bonus: If you really want to talk about character's dying (and not just jump into angst for its own sake): they haven’t given Steve a proper love interest EVER outside of Nancy, made Dustin cry over Eddie instead of staying close to Steve S4, and haven’t ONCE referenced that boy’s family properly more than a few times in passing (and only by Steve himself).

He is the only character who craves normalcy despite this show being about championing the outcast, was supposed to die seasons ago but stayed because Joe Keery was so beloved, and has now been written into a corner where every single person who is central to him (esp Dustin and Robin) either have a new love interest or are worried about something else more than him, which...if you want canonical evidence for a possible death, you're looking in the wrong corner of this love triangle.

#HERE U GO ANON LMAO #my st commentary #jonathan byers #stranger things #he will be alive and well in S5!#single? maybe. but DEFINITELY alive lmao

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steveharrington · 1 year

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still 6 months later confused by jonathan’s little ‘who would’ve been in charge, steve?” dig bc it felt more like the writers going “ok and lets add more tension here between jonathan and nancy bc nancy’s spent all season seeing that steve is a good guy. love triangle tease!!” than like a real thing that he would say. also again shitting on steve for no reason bc he’s there for them to be a punching bag. “he’s actually grown up quite a bit” annoyed me a little too. sorry he spent the last four seasons going through the horrors just like u guys? like jonathan and nancy did you not think steve pre-s4 had matured at all or did u just not talk to him. personally i think s5 steve should get to snap just a little just for fun

lord i knowwww 😭 i’ve talked about this before but i feel like every single season they make steve redo his redemption arc based on who he’s hanging around. at the end of s1 we got his actual original redemption when he cleaned off the marquee, went to apologize to jonathan on his own volition, and ran back in to help save nancy and jonathan after which he gave jonathan the new camera. s2 it’s understandable that they’d want to continue showing steve work on himself and i think the closure between him and nancy via him outright being like “hey it’s okay if you want to be with jonathan” was very necessary, plus showing his growth as a person through his relationship with the kids was genius. s3 is where it gets weird because it’s like okay it is now the summer of 1985 and steve’s last act of evil was in fall of 1983 and yet we’re still scolding him for …. being judgey about theatre kids …… and then after he builds a friendship with robin and literally gets tortured in front of her they STILL have her stop to be like hey btw steve you don’t remember me from class so you’re an asshole. apologize rn. and THEN in s4 we’re STILL having him hear another “i thought you were evil but then i saw you almost die horrifically in an act of self sacrifice so….maybe you’re alright harrington :)” speech from eddie this time. and then the little comment from jonathan is clearly setting us up to do it all over again in s5 and it’s like oh my god we GET ITTTTTTT how many times does steve have to experience the horrors and almost die for you guys before you’re willing to stop lecturing him on something he Already apologized for!!!! that’s why it’s so insane to me when people are like “yeah well steve never actually apologized” like 1. do you guys want every moment of character development to be explicitly spelled out in the most literal sense have you ever heard of show not tell and 2. he is literally still apologizing 4 seasons later

#BARK BARK BARK i feel rabid about him rn #answered #anon

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strangertheories · 1 year

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STRANGERTHEORIES S5 post index and intro

This index is very long so to avoid clutter on my blog, I've put it under the cut.

❤️🧡💛💚🩵💜

SCROLL DOWN FOR INTRO <3 Here's my S4 index for theories and other random posts which are a bit out of date now. * means the post was written before the release of volume 2.

ST5 theories

Kas theories (Eddie and Max)

Can Vecna see through Max's eyes?

What will happen when Max wakes up?

Quantum Entanglement and ST5

The First Shadow theories

The First Shadow: what is the source of Henry's powers?

The First Shadow: why did Henry kidnap Will?

Two interesting follow up asks: 1, 2 + a small correction

X-Men and Dark Phoenix parallels

Is Henry related to Jane/El

How will S5 play out/end?

Could Mr Clarke return?

Could Kali/008 return?

Could Mike die?

Will Byers

What will Hawkins be like in S5?

Is Holly missing?

What gay Will Byers means to me*

All proof Will is gay (long post for a reason)

What Will Byers having powers might look like

Did Vecna target Will from the start?

Does Vecna want Will dead?

Vecna and Will parallels

Did Will manifest the Upside Down into Hawkins?

Will froze the Upside Down

The psychological bond between Will and Vecna

Does Will have a clone? (Bodygate)

Could Vecna out Will in S5?

Could Lonnie return in S5?

Byler

Gay Mike analysis (volume 2 is not covered)*

Shipping Byler shouldn't be stressful

Mischaracterisation of Will and Mike

Failures in Mike's writing in S3 & S4

Mike outside of romantic relationships

Byler colour coding

The Van Monologue

Why I went off mlvn

Unrequited Byler or no Byler?

Why I started shipping Byler*

Byler headcanons and even more Byler headcanons*

First date headcanons (also includes Steddie, Ronance and Jopper)

Argument for Byler endgame

Is Byler rushed?

Could Byler be Vecna'd in S5?

In defense of bi Mike

Why I like bi Mike

In defense of Byler doubters

Oh god that blew up, so here's my response

A follow up post to the follow up post

Robin Buckley

Highlights of Robin's comic

Platonic Stobin's impact on Robin (long post)

Robin centric headcanons (Ronance)

Robin headcanons pt 2*

Autistic Robin proof*

More autistic Robin content

Robin and camouflaging

No, Robin didn't drastically change personality*

Robin and ableism*

Steve is Robin's comfort person*

Ronance

First date headcanons (also includes Byler, Steddie and Jopper)

Ronance headcanons*

Ronance and overuse of boy drama (follow up post)*

Will Jancy resolve their issues? (goes on about every Nancy ship)

Why Stancy shouldn't be endgame

How would Ronance play out?

Single Nancy vs Ronance

Why I prefer Ronance to Rovickie (a discussion of fandom, canon and headcanon)

Ronance apparently doesn't center Steve enough (debunked)

Bra sharing

Fan art: post 1, post 2, post 3, post 4

General

Unpopular opinions

Eleven's character arc in S4 and hopes for S5

Long Max character analysis*

Which characters might die in ST5?

Panel with actors of Chrissy, Karen and Alexei

Homophobia and queer shipping*

Fandom bullying

Eddie's death is good actually

No, Steve isn't homophobic (to Robin)

Where Steve's character arc went wrong

Characters that I think are autistic and autistic headcanons

On neurodivergent headcanons

Autistic Eleven proof

Nancy and how audiences treat trauma

Eddie's character arc & death

The Duffers planned for more seasons after S1

Ranking of seasons, characters and ships*

Set photos plus short commentary: 1, 2, 3

❤️🧡💛💚🩵💜

Hello fellow Stranger Things fans! This is the index post of my blog, strangertheories, where I make content about Stranger Things! I've been obsessed with Stranger Things for years so I've decided to spare everyone in my life from having to hear me ranting about it and create this blog to share my thoughts. You can also find me on TikTok as forever_ronance and on Letterboxd as crimsonxclover.

I post about Byler, Ronance and most of all, theories (kind of in the name). I try to only post about ST but if I want to post about something else, I'll tag it #not ST related. I regularly answer anons if you are interested in sending me an ask as well!

If my account appeals to you, I would appreciate if you check out my posts. If you're looking for a specific post, I've got you covered- just look at the list above or see what I've posted under the tags I've tagged this post with. My personal favourite section is the ST5 theories as they're my most thought out and analytical posts but hopefully there's something up here that you enjoy. I don't include all of my posts as this index is only my important posts so if you sent me an ask and it's not on the index, that's why. Enjoy reading and thanks for checking out my account!

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dinosaursatemymom · 9 months

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St characters ranked by me

even though nobody asked

Lucas Sinclair

Max Mayfield

Erica Sinclair

El/Jane Hopper

Steve Harrington

Will Byers

Robin Buckley

Joyce Byers

Jonathon Byers

Hopper

Murray

Mike wheeler

Dustin Henderson

Argyle

Nancy Wheeler

The entire town of Hawkins

Eddie Munson

Vecna/Henry/001

Billy Hargrove

1- do I even need to explain myself? Lucas solos, end of story, but in all seriousness this guy is just such a good person, whenever he screws up he always takes accountability and apologizes. Lucas is a green flag and good character.

2- Max is a good character, and I wish that her depression has been explored more. I think most of her sarcasm is a defense mechanism and closing off as a trauma response, which I relate to a lot as closing off is also my defense mechanism.

3-Erica is a great character, she's funny, shes nice when she needs to be and it's clear she really does care about her brother. She's wayy too young to be dealing with all the upside down stuff though.

4- El is great, and I would love to see her again her independence and more of a sense of self.

5- Steve is a good guy, he makes mistakes(like a lot) but he tries to make up for them(cleaning off the spray paint, and helping with the camera for example) I definitely think that his whole thing with Nancy this season was weird, but tbh I think the duffers just don't know what to do with him anymore. Cause he was supposed to die, like more than once. All in all I like him as a character.

6- Will is a good character I just think he needs to stop being sidelined so much, which has already been proven to come to fruition in s5.

7- Robin is also a good character who needs more screentime. I would like to see more of who she is separated from Steve.

8- Joyce is good mom, she loves her kids and really tries to help them.

9- Jonathon was a bitch for most of s1, which can be written of as trauma response. He's a great big brother. I would love to see him owning up to his mistakes better, and being honest with nancy. I'll say that the whole taking pictures thing was creepy and he should've apologized to more than just Nancy.

10- I like him, although he makes mistakes, as we all do, but he doesn't really own up to all of them. And in certain moments he was an asshole, but all in all I like him for the most part.

11- Murray is Murray. He's the chaotic neutral. He's not a matchmaker, he's just sick of everyone's bullshit.

12- I have a lot to say about Mike, but as of right now this is where he stays. Because unless he gets confirmed get with IH he's just a little shit.

13- Dustin is funny and nice, but he's also a cocky little asshole a lot of the time. He is the exact type of person I would be friends with in real life though. 😅

14- I like argyle, but he is definitely not fleshed out enough. I need him fleshed out more in the next season.

15- I don't like her very much, shes kinda just a rich entitled white girl. She strung Steve along in s2, she told Jonathon he was pulling the Oliver twist routine and barely apologized. She got all smug when Jonathan apologized. She can't take accountability for her actions well, and that just ticks me off.

16- I don't know much about them but yk.

17- I don't like eddie. I don't get why people like Eddie, he's a greasy twenty year old who basically bullies high schoolers for not being freaks enough. He also sells drugs to minors as a twenty year old. He was kinda at fault for the whole basketball dnd game thing, he acts like having any other interests is wrong and tbh he just feels like the semi-attractive white guy to ship with other semi-attractive white guy. I was sorta indifferent to him at first but then the fandom kept adding him into everything where he absolutely did not need to be. Like, no, he's not gonna come back to life and mentor Will who's gonna come out to him.

18- do I need to explain this? Really? He's evil

19- racist, sexist, greasy, abuser, likely homophobic. Just a shit person let's be real.

Okay that's it this is all my opinion though, please don't hate.

#anti billy hargrove #anti billy stans #anti nancy wheeler #anti eddie munson #lucas sinclair #lucas sinclair supremacy #stranger things #Sinclair supremacy

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thestrangestthing89 · 1 year

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Guns and the Upside Down

We have seen consistently throughout the series that guns don't work on the demogorgon. Not only that, but gun usage in general is rarely viewed as a positive thing.

S1 - Nancy shoots at the demogorgon at the Byers house. She hits it repeatedly and it doesn't die. Hopper and Nancy are shown to be the only main characters who use a gun. I don't get the impression from this that they are sending the message that a lot of action movies send - using a gun is badass and we need good guys with a gun. Oftentimes, Hopper is shown to be belligerent. He starts punching people or pulling a gun on them when he gets stuck and doesn't know what else to do. This season in particular he is shown to be in over his head whenever he starts reaching for a gun (i.e. he's cornered trying to sneak into the lab when he pulls a gun out). I think what they might be trying to do here is another trope inversion (I wrote about this more here). Nancy falls into the category of "giving a girl a gun to make her badass". Except the guns aren't working so it's not coming across like that exactly. S2 - At the end of the season, Mike says something along the lines of "we can't shoot our way out of our problems". And Hopper responds with "we don't know that". Except we do know that. Mike is consistently right when it comes to problem solving. And we also see that this is true. When the group is attacked at the lab, Hopper is shooting at the demogorgon. The most it seems to do is slow them down a bit. But it doesn't kill them. When him and El are back at the lab later, he is shooting at the demogorgon climbing up the wall. It makes them fall but it doesn't look like they are killed. We see that closing the gate is actually what kills them. S3 - Hopper uses a gun to kill the Russians in the lab. This is viewed as crazy by Joyce and Murray. He is being belligerent again and not thinking things through. Murray was handling their problems by talking to the guards in Russian. Nancy tries to use a gun to stop Billy from driving his car at them. This doesn't work. It's Steve driving another car into him that stops him. And we know Nancy's aim is good so she wasn't missing.

S4 - Hopper uses a gun in the Russian prison several times to shoot at the demogorgon and we also see Russian soldiers shooting at them. This does not work. It doesn't kill the demogorgon or stop it at any time. The most it does is slow it down a little. There are 2 moments (one with Hopper and one with the solders) where they show those characters repeatedly shooting at this demogorgon. It gets hit over and over again and doesn't die.

There is one exception here - the demogorgon that is tied to the table and cut open. Hopper shoots it once and it dies. This is the exception not the rule. This is the only time we see the demogorgon actually dying from a gun. Which leads me to believe that they either can be killed but they just have to be injured first - in this case cut open. Or the Russians were experimenting on it and did something to it so it could be killed. Nancy goes looking for guns in the UD and doesn't find them. The group ends up pivoting and problem solving instead. It's communicating through the lights that saves them.

We also see Nancy at the end of the season shooting at Vecna. At this point, Max has already died and the gates have opened. They are too late. Her shooting Vecna also doesn't kill him. He gets lit on fire and shot at and he isn't dead. So this wasn't a badass moment of the action hero storming in with a weapon and saving the day. They lost and people died. And this was partly because this plan wasn't well thought out.

They have consistently shown that it's the characters intelligence that gets them out of tough situations and not brute force. It's a show about nerds saving the day. I think the line Mike says in S2 about not being able to shoot their way out of this is going to come back around in S5.

The things that have worked against the monsters are - El, the bat with the nails (not sure if this has actually killed anything though), fire (not on Vecna, but Murray's flamethrower works on the demogorgon), an ax, and Lucas's fireworks.

Guns have not only not helped them in tough situations, they are frequently associated with the bad guys. Lonnie is abusive and forced his two sons to learn to use guns to toughen them up. It's this lens of toxic masculinity that the audience is viewing the depiction of guns with. This idea that Will needs to toughen up and get a gun next season. When he picks up a gun in S1 it's his last resort option and it doesn't save him. It doesn't help. Will is already tough and has been shown to be repeatedly. He has been traumatized throughout his childhood both by Lonnie and by the UD and he's still the kindest person on the show. That takes an emotional and mental toughness that most people don't have. He doesn't need a gun. Anyone who thinks this would be cool and good for him is not only ignoring the abuse that's associated with this (by Lonnie), but they are solely focusing on a form of physical toughness that is largely created by action movies. That blowing shit up and killing people solves your problems. It's directly associated with this need for a hyper-masculine solution to problems. It's not a narrative the show has ever used.

Which is why I think this is another trope they are trying to invert. We don't often see characters who solve their problems with intelligence. It's so often viewed as a sign of strength to just open fire. This is a problem for so many reasons but considering the amount of gun violence in the US right now, it's always shocking to see that there are still people who are viewing the whole "good guys with a gun" narrative an effective solution to problems. Again, this is not something the show has ever used even with Hopper and Nancy so I don't think they will go there now.

Jason, along with soldiers from the lab and the Russians, also fall into the bad guy with guns category. Jason is clearly becoming more and more unhinged as the season goes on and uses a gun on Lucas. I really don't love this moment considering the racial implications, but I do think that it's a consistent theme with the series with regard to how guns don't solve problems.

The show isn't shying away from taking a bolder approach to storytelling. They frequently invert tropes and they seem to be saving a few of their riskier stories for the final season (byler). I am certain that Will won't use a gun next season - it goes against his whole character arc, not to mention would be unnecessary if he has superpowers. But it would be a pretty radical move for them to also have Hopper and Nancy not use them too. It would end up being a different kind of story that I don't think the audience is used to seeing. The only example I can come up with of an action movie/show deliberately not using guns is Buffy the Vampire Slayer (the tv show not the movie). They went out of their way to rarely show guns and when they did it was always in a negative way. It also wasn't necessary. The main character has superpowers and guns don't kill vampires so why include it? So if the guns are also not killing the demogorgon why would they keep having their characters use them? It was noteworthy at the time because I don't think people know how to tell these kinds of stories without seeing the action hero shooting their way through a problem. And I don't think the audience knows how to interpret this without immediately resorting to the thought process of "he should use a gun". It would be a refreshing change to see a story not relying on this kind of writing. And I don't think it's outside of the realm of possibility to see them go there because it seems like they already are.

#stranger things #stranger things analysis #byler #nancy wheeler #jim hopper

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