#i really like the potential dynamic between the four !!
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The Lost Titans in Canon: Jason and Rose
I already talked about Jason and Eddie's canon friendship, so next up, I want to talk about Jason and Rose. They're an interesting duo, actually, because even though they have appeared in far more comics together than Jason and Eddie, a lot of them take place in Elseworlds, or timelines that are in questionable continuity these days. It's only in the past couple of years that this relationship has really picked up the pace - and to a certain extent, only in the past couple of days.
Jason and Rose first interacted in Red Hood and the Outlaws, the New 52 volume. Rose turns up hunting the Outlaws, and it's revealed that she and Jason have a sexual past. Because it's RHATO, she's of course written appallingly out of character:
Awful.
The very next issue, the book is canceled. Jason and Rose walk off together, but when we next see Jason in Red Hood/Arsenal like four seconds later, Rose is nowhere in sight.
Anyway, this history and interaction are...let's say in dubious continuity. Rose's appearance here barely jives with anything else she did in the DCU (most of which was also written incoherently by Lobdell), and everything about New 52 Rose was instantly retconned out of existence by Rebirth. Then again, you could say the same thing about Jason and Roy.
Ever since, DC has treated Jason and Rose like they have romantic history of some kind, or at least there are references to sexual tension between them, but no one is ever specific about exactly what their history is.
Next up is DCeased: The Unkillables, a miniseries set in the DCeased universe. Jason and Rose actually wind up getting married in this universe, but obviously it's not actually in continuity because it's an AU. Still, they're pretty cute:
(This ends tragically, of course, because DCeased.)
Speaking of AUs, we also saw these two together in Future State, a possible dystopian future. They are definitely sleeping together, but while Rose spends most of her time making double entendres, Jason is distant and brooding, until she gets pissed off:
Still, she shows up later to rescue him, and they actually manage to end that AU together and alive (for now):
Okay, so much for AUs and potentially retconned-away interactions. What about the in continuity stuff?
Well, this single panel happened during Dark Nights: Death Metal: The Last Stories of the DC Universe, which was sort of the transitional event between the end of Rebirth and completely rolling back the remnants of the New 52:
Is it still in continuity? Do any of the characters remember it? I HAVE NO IDEA.
Next is Robin, when Rose tells Jason that Damian has entered the assassin tournament on Lazarus Island, and the former Robins show up to try to stop him. Rose and Jason don't interact directly, but we do get this:
Great question, Damian! NO ONE KNOWS.
Rose and Jason FINALLY interact ONE HUNDRED PERCENT IN CURRENT CONTINUITY FOR SURE in The Joker: The Man Who Stopped Laughing, when she rescues him from a police van and they both look ridiculously hot about it:
I'm assuming she's calling him "lover boy" because they've hooked up, but if you've read any of my work you know I'm a Jason Todd Secret Virgin truther, so I'm choosing to read it ambiguously. I'm also choosing to read her last line as her having the hots for Steph. (Rose, like me, prefers Naughty Robins only.) Anyway, she's been roped into the plot of this book, but it's still ongoing so who knows how it'll resolve. (Spoiler: not with Jason successfully killing the Joker!)
That was going to be my whole list when I started this post, but then Batman/Catwoman: Gotham War: Red Hood #2 came out, and who should show up but Rose!
We've seen this dynamic from them before: Rose cracks sex jokes, Jason is stoic and terse and Focused On The Mission. I'm of two minds about this - it's fun to read, and Rose does tend to make bawdy jokes (she did grow up in a brothel, after all), whereas Jason ranges from stoic to equally sassy depending on who's writing him, so I wouldn't necessarily say it's out of character for either of them. It's more that Rose is always depicted as the one pursuing Jason, whereas he has Important Manly Things to think about instead. (See also: Bruce and Selina, Bruce and Talia, Bruce and any woman, any man in comics and any woman.) Just because it's not technically OOC doesn't mean it doesn't overlap into a sexist trope.
(I kind of love the idea that she is literally only doing it because she knows it embarrasses him and he is Focusing On The Mission to hide his blush and they both know they aren't going to fuck, but that's a personal headcanon and not really the Occam's Razor interpretation of these scenes, which are definitely meant to imply that they are banging.)
What I did find interesting about this issue is that it's the first one in continuity to show genuine concern and affection between the characters:
Do I think Rose would ever stand with her toes together like that past the age of 12? No. But this is still very touching.
Anyway, JayRose is one of those pairings that I don't ship but am perfectly fine seeing unfold in canon. I totally get why DC would pair them, I totally get what they would see in each other, I think it will all end in disaster but that can be fun to watch. It'll be interesting to see if DC commits to actually telling an in-continuity story with these two, or if they will forever be restricted to her showing up and making a dick joke that Jason will ignore because of how he's sad inside. Time will tell!
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Y'know what maybe I'm not done talking about Journeys queercoding actually. maybe I do wanna work out my literary analysis muscles for the sake of Pokemon protagonists. why not
To clarify, this isn't about me personally enjoying the ship between Ash and Gou. I do enjoy it, but I'm making an argument for potentially deliberate queercoding in the writing, I'm not necessarily just here to gush (though that may be a side effect)
I'm also a firm believer that actions or behaviors that we typically think of as romantic are only made romantic if that's how the people involved feel about it. I don't think romance is the only possible way to interpret their relationship.
But when it comes to predicting where a story might be going next, or figuring out what the writers are intending to hint at us, I gotta pull out my textbook of Romantic Tropes first to see what fits the bill.
And I'm sorry, but even if it's not the intended interpretation, you can't include all of these scenes:
...and assume no one in your audience will think there's anything romantic happening here.
Of course, those are just the obvious visual interactions between them that can come off as romantic, to say nothing of the symbolic visual hints; the no less than four rainbows they've been under (one of which was reflected in Gou's eye), the two sets of heart-shaped pokemon that swam past them in a single episode which also had them falling under a rainbow, stuff like that.
But even all of that is pretty surface-level stuff. If the writing doesn't support a queer reading very strongly, then my argument for the queercoding being particularly intentional would fall flat.
Thankfully, the writing does support a queer interpretation, so I'm in the clear! Since breaking this part down will take a lot longer, I'm putting it under a cut.
So, right off the bat we've got the basic setup for the show. For the first time, the focus is primarily on Ash and one other person, as opposed to two or more people... despite having a third person in Chloe, who could easily make this into a trio dynamic, considering she's friends with Gou from the start. But they choose instead to make the core of the show about Ash and Gou.
This is even reflected in promotional material, where they'll often be placed closer to each other than Chloe:
Them being roommates is something I usually bring up as a joke, but it is worth noting anyway simply because it's another way the writers have decided they're going to spend almost all of their time together when they really didn't have to.
But now we gotta get into the real Writing Choices(TM) that are the meat and potatoes of this analysis, such as: making brief allusions to the idea that they might like other guys, too
One way to build up a character's orientation is to show them being attracted to people in shorter instances before giving them a main love interest. Think Luz from The Owl House; she had expressed attraction to both boys and girls before she got a girlfriend or started wearing a bi pin.
Likewise, this is Ash when he's thinking about Leon after seeing him battle for the first time:
I kid you not, he keeps up this blush and zoned-out expression for a solid minute, so caught up in thinking about how cool Leon is that he doesn't even think to eat the scones in front of him.
Now, Ash is a person frequently characterized by his love for food, and in previous episodes he had expressed a particular adoration for Galar scones, so this is pretty unusual behavior for him.
So unusual that it's. literally never happened before, to the best of my knowledge?? I don't think it takes much analyzing to realize that, even if it was brief, you could easily take this as Ash having a celebrity crush on Leon.
(There's even pink flowers in the background but that's probably less important)
Meanwhile with Gou, his "setup crush" in this scenario would be Horace. These two have a whole episode dedicated to their first meeting and the bond they forged, and how that turned bitter on Gou's end when he gets stood up right as he thought he was finally making a friend.
What sets this up for a romantic interpretation is largely the framing of things towards the end of the episode:
"Why do I keep thinking of him" is historically not the most platonic thing you could be bitterly thinking to yourself while you remember stargazing with someone, even if I do stand by my statement earlier of nothing being inherently romantic by itself
The end of the episode also implies that the feeling is mutual, if this shot is anything to go off of
(It's just a very shoujo manga-esque frame okay there's no way I wasn't going to point it out)
And the ending scene is two Celebies looking down happily at the two of them while the narrator talks about how pokemon form "many different kinds of bonds"
Many kinds of bonds, huh? Wonder what he could possibly be implying there
Okay so we've got orientation buildup, next in line is this. suspiciously consistent trend of characters who are close to Ash telling Gou to take care of him, or even going out of their way to test him to make sure he's good enough to be his rival or friend.
Gou himself even echoes the sentiment completely unprompted once, which says even more to me that they're trying to make a point out of this:
And here's the thing. None of the other companions have ever undergone this sort of treatment. Nobody questioned whether or not Ash's friends were good enough to hang out with him before, so why now? Why Gou? What makes him different?
Kiawe is relatively easy to explain because (from what I can tell) he's just Like That about rivalries, but why the addition of describing a rival as "the person closest to Ash"? Why does Gary suddenly care about the quality of Ash's buddies when that was never really a concern for him before?
Well gee I don't know about you guys but to me, this feels like the trope where someone's friends and family all start scouting out the guy they're interested in (or who is interested in them) to make sure they won't like, break their heart or something. And despite my best efforts, I'm struggling to see how this wasn't the writers' intention behind these plotlines.
Gou telling Ash's mom that he'll look after Ash on two separate occasions as opposed to the initial one also feels like an easy parallel to someone promising their love interest's parents that they'll be a good partner.
To my understanding, that isn't traditionally something friends also have to promise, even if there's more justification here as Ash and Gou are traveling around and getting into chaotic situations regularly.
So, with all this in mind, it kind of reframes the stuff I mentioned earlier, doesn't it? The blushing, the hand-holding, the spin hug that I'm never getting over, the frequent appearance of rainbows and the heart shaped Pokemon (Luvdisc if you were wondering)... it feels a lot more intentional once you take into account the bigger themes in the writing.
And once you start looking, it keeps piling up. The way Gou hurriedly says that he totally didn't want to help Ash out or anything after Scorbunny gives him a knowing look, like how most tsundere tropes tend to play out:
Or the specific way Gou is taken aback by one of Ash's compliments before trying to play it off by looking cool, only to be comically shocked when Ash gets distracted by something else:
I could go on but I'm running out of image space and I think you get the idea.
Ash's side of this whole thing is admittedly a lot more subtle than Gou's (*cough* because he's arospec) which is why I haven't gone over it much - my aim with this post was not to go too far into speculation territory - but we at least have marketing on our side for that
Gee Ash how come Animedia let you feed Gou two pastries
Anyway, in conclusion: I ran these two through the literary queerometer and the results were positive, thanks for coming to my TED talk
#pokemon#pokeani#anipoke#pokemon journeys#ash ketchum#pokemon gou#journeyshipping#satogou#analysis#meta#Can you tell I started this at a reasonable nighttime hour and finished at 3am#XD#TAKING THESE SCREENSHOTS TOOK SO LONG#especially since I had to backtrack and edit for a lot of them#Finding the animedia posters in decent quality wasn't exactly a cakewalk either
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→ Chapter 3.5: When She Sees Me
Pairing: Jimin x Reader
Other tags: Werewolf!Jimin, Witch!Reader, Shifter!Reader, Shifter!Jimin, A/B/O Dynamics, Alpha!Jimin
Genre: Supernatural!AU, Werewolf!AU, Angst, Mutual Pining, Fluff
Word Count: 1.8k+
Synopsis: Within the four realms of Lustra lay the Bangtan forest home to the Foxglove pack of the south and known as the “land of magic.” It is also home to the Bridd, a powerful witch from a cursed bloodline who is one of the sacred guardians of the forest. Park Jimin is the man who's in love with her, and when their worlds collide in tragedy, he must decide if he is willing to put his old life aside to make a new one.
Warnings: Jimin POV, Kissing, talks of sexual feelings (not exlipict), I love this man with my whole heart, just a boy in love, takes place at the end of chapter three of the main storyline, THAT scene, FLUFF, This was so much fun to write, to be in wolf Jimin's head... the dream.
Disclaimer: While you don't have to read any of the series to understand what's going on, it won't make a ton of sense. I highly recommend reading this in conjunction with the original work, Trees That Wheep.
A/N: On the first day of Christmas Lex gave to thee... Jimin's P-O-V. Thanks so much to everyone who participated in the poll I held. Hope this meets expectations despite her being on the shorter side. Happy holidays and stay safe.
|| Chapter 3 || Masterlist ||
“Yours must be very interesting.”
I shook my head, “Not really. Mostly the angsty ramblings of a teenager. Nothing more.”
I sounded convincing enough. I heard Jimin shuffling around but refused to look his way. Deciding that I was done for the night, I began closing and stacking the grimoires I had taken out. I will sort through them later. Glancing at the walls, I could not tell what time it was but knew it had to be close to sunset. I needed to get to my room soon.
Going to turn, strong arms found themselves resting on either side of my waist. Shocked, I turned my head to find Jimin standing directly behind me. His chest pressed against my shoulder as I turned to face him. He had never been so close to me before.
Jimin’s POV
Her chest felt soft against me, and I struggled to keep my nerve. Walking over here had been impulsive, my feet moving before I was able to think it over but having her between my arms made the potential embarrassment worth it. She looked so lovely in the candlelight and whatever she had been reading caused her shoulders to tense uncomfortably.
Her eyes were wide, confused, and could not find a point of my face to stop on. I could hear her heart fluttering like a hummingbird’s wings and her scent made me force a groan back. She was so sweet, like vanilla, with an almost bitter aftertaste. I would compare it to whiskey but that was too strong. Tobacco, cotton, and vanilla came to mind.
“Jimin?”
She was so gentle when she said my name. Caressing it as if it were a precious secret. I leaned into her, wanting to hear her heart beating closer still. Drunk off of her presence, I found myself talking.
“Can I tell you something?” I whispered, just as softly as she had said my name.
Our chests touched and I moved my hands behind her back. Wrapping around her, I forced my hands onto the table. I was itching to hold her tightly but I was afraid of what might happen. Placing one hand on top of the other, I felt myself trembling. We had never been so close, and only in my dreams did I think this possible. Bridd refused to look at me, her breathing as heavy as my own causing me great pleasure.
“Y/N,” I called to her, hoping she could hear all the ways I loved her within it. “Can I?”
Eyes locking, I had to grip my fingers to keep them on the table. I could smell the faintest trace of her arousal and it took all of my self-control to ignore it. She shivered against me and I knew she was feeling the same electricity that I was. I could hear her swallow, something I found oddly arousing, and she nodded.
Something was crossed tonight. The lines I had meticulously placed between us for years had come crumbling down ever since the day I came here with Hoseok. There was something about watching her walk around her home, her feet unable to stay still, while she worked that had struck me. Feeling her eyes on me, knowing that she wanted to watch me just as much as I wanted to watch her, unleashed this animal. The more primal part of my personality wanted to shout at Hoseok to leave us alone so I could take what was mine. The other side, the man, wished to sit and listen to her talk about the knives she loved to make, to ask her all of the questions I had been dying to have answered, and watch the way her eyes lit up. Realizing that we would never go back to a time before this, I decided to be upfront.
“I enjoy your company,” I had to tell her.
She nodded, dazed. Her eyes did not leave my own and she searched, ever the curious girl, for something. I had long ago stopped trying to figure her out. Instead, I hoped that she would tell me. I wanted her to want me to know her. With that in mind, I decided to destroy the walls between us.
“I like being close to you. Is that alright?”
“Yes,” She replied breathlessly, needily.
I leaned into her, drawing closer. Her eyes were hooded, heavy, and the lust within them brought me to my knees. She wanted me so badly, the smell of it clinging to the air adding another layer to her familiar smell. It reminded me of sea salt. I swallowed thickly and leaned in closer. Not tonight, I told myself, the grip on my left hand painful now. I could wait for that. I had been waiting for her for so long.
“Do you want me to stop?” I whispered, so close to her lips that I could feel the ghost of them against mine.
I felt her hesitate. This was nothing new. Bridd had always kept her emotions for me on a tightly controlled leash. It had bothered me for a long time until I realized that she might have thought them foolish. I had never announced myself or made an effort to get closer to her. My own fears made me weak, but to have denied her this made me feel half a man. How could I have ever taken this choice from her? From us? Foolish.
“No,” She said, her eyes already closing.
It would take less than a second of a second to lean forward. Such a small, inconsequential gap in time. A blink and it was gone. Nothing. However, as I leaned in I knew this small space would be burned into my mind. The anticipation, the way my heart sang and my hands trembled. Our lips brushed and my knees went numb.
Kissing her was unlike anything I had ever experienced. She was so soft, so warm, and frail beneath me as I struggled to keep myself at her eye level. Bridd sighed, her hands finding home on my chest, and I could no longer keep myself off of her. Wrapping her in an embrace, I wanted to cry from joy. Everything that I had ever wanted, wondered, and fantasized paled in comparison. None of it did this moment justice. With her hands twitching against me, her lips chapped, mouth dry, and breathing into my mouth each time we pulled away, I was certain I had never done something so right in my whole life.
She finally started pulling away, and I opened my eyes to watch her. She was so beautiful. Her eyes were glazed and not even half way opened. Staring at her, the candle light making the beads on her top shine prettily, all I could imagine to say was that I loved her. Instead, I bent over even more and nuzzled my nose into her hairline.
“Thank you,” I mumbled, already thinking about kissing her again.
She, again, nodded, before leaning into me once more. Tiptoeing to reach my face, hands traveling from my chest to my shoulders, her eyes closing. Cupping her face, so small and delicate beneath my hands, I pulled her to my eagerly waiting lips. She grinned against me as I tangled my fingers in her hair.
Suddenly, I felt her tongue licking at my lower lip and the delicate balance I had been desperately trying to keep since I approached her tipped. With a strangled groan, I opened my mouth to hers and slid a hand from her hair to her hips. Sucking her tongue, I picked her up off of the floor and lifted her onto the desk she had been occupied with all night. I did not even think before my leg was forcing hers apart and making space for the rest of me.
Her hands gripped my shirt tightly and I wished she would go back to twitching against my chest. She felt more solid there, more real. Her mouth was wet and hot as we kissed, her tongue hesitant and shy while I knew I was being more aggressive than she was used to. Thoughts of her kissing another made me uncomfortable, so I kissed her even harsher to remove whatever they may have left behind.
Then she was shoving me away, ripping her lips from mine as she struggled to catch her breath. I took a few steps back, unsure what the problem could be. One look at her, however, and I was sure. The change was coming.
“Go,” She choked, scrambling off of the desk.
A loud piercing scream called me to action. As much as I hated leaving her in moments like this, I knew it made her uncomfortable to have me around. Her comfort would always trump my own needs and wants- that I was sure. Running up the cellar steps, I threw open the little door and threw myself onto the living room floor. Closing the door, the tortured screams of my love were muffled.
My heart shattered as I listened to her, but I knew it would not last long. A few feet away, Taehyung slept soundly. I envied his ability to do that. Ever since I got here, I had found sleeping restless. With Bridd so close yet so far away it was impossible to relax.
A large, toothy grin overtook me. I would never sleep without her again. I would try my hardest to be sure of that. Her lips lingered on my own, tingling and swollen, and I never wanted the feeling to fade. I would make sure I always felt this way, every day, for the rest of our lives.
I could see it now, living here with her. We would cook dinner together, eat together, sleep together. For Yule we would put up a tree. For Litha I would tend her garden while she watched me from the window. We would have children, beautiful children that looked like her, and love them the way they deserved to be loved. My family would learn to live with my choices and my pack would always be my own, but I needed to be where my heart was.
As her screaming turned to throaty croaks, I was settled. I would put my heart on my sleeve. For her, I would beg. What should have been said the second my wolf threatened to rip apart anybody who stood between us in that cave. When I nursed her back to health as she lay half-alive in her bed afterward. All of the times I had seen her since. Every dream, nightmare, and fantasy in between.
Tonight, I would tell her that she was my mate. Tonight, we would never part again. Tonight, I would love her and hope she would let me. Tonight, and every night, I would fight to make her see that no one has ever loved another the way I love her.
@greezenini@adventures-in-bookland@kthstrawberryshortcake-main@zae007live@jimin-neverout@nikkiordonez12@canarystwin@yamekomz@chimthicc@michiiedreamer@amorieus@mima795@yunki-yunki-yunki
© chimcess, 2023. Do not copy or repost without permission.
#ttw#bts#jimin#park jimin#bts fanfiction#bts fic#bts fantasy au#bts fanfic#bts werewolf au#bts witch au#jimin werewolf au#bts abo#jimin x y/n#jimin x reader#jimin x you#bts x y/n#bts x you#bts x reader#kim taehyung#jeon jungkook#kim namjoon#kim seokjin#min yoongi#jung hoseok#jimin fanfiction#jimin oneshot
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Snape/Mulciber?
thank you very much for the ask, anon!
and i mean, snulciber is basically canon, isn't it - i'm sure we're all sufficient degenerates that we've deeped the bisexual potential of that interview where jkr's like "snape wanted lily and he wanted mulciber too"...
one thing i'm really taken with in pairings between snape and his slytherin schoolmates is the really interesting things you can do with the reversal of the implied power dynamic during their schooldays as snape is gradually accepted into voldemort's inner circle.
because it's clear in the prince's tale that snape is both somewhat deferential to mulciber and somewhat dismissive of him - he defends mulciber's use of dark magic against mary mcdonald, but he doesn't do so particularly vehemently, and he doesn't appear to care at all that lily's called his friend "creepy" because he's too busy seething about james and sirius. it's also clear that mulciber [and avery etc.] didn't care enough about snape to intervene against the marauders' bullying, and that snape was - throughout his schooldays - an easy target for the gryffindor four because he was usually alone, peripheral to the rest of slytherin.
and we can also see that one of the reasons snape became a target for bullying was because he was so demonstrably working-class, in contrast to the suspiciously well-heeled majority of the student body - so much so that i have a meta lurking in my drafts about whether hogwarts is a selective school. mulciber can be reasonably written as being yet another of the posh, well-off boys who snape is both incandescently jealous of and tremendously unimpressed with - and his attitude towards snape can be written as the same sort of faintly amused condescension we can sense from characters such as slughorn. which, of course, enrages snape because he considers himself - not without reason - superior intellectually to them, and wants to be awarded the status he considers himself to deserve on the basis of his magical power, rather than his name or background.
and then snape becomes a death eater.
my preferred view is that snape is very much voldemort's "exception" in terms of class [in the same way that bellatrix is his exception in terms of gender] and that he is the only death eater in the first war [since i also don't think wormtail receives the dark mark until he rescues voldemort from albania prior to goblet of fire] who isn't from an upper-class background. my preferred view is also that voldemort's recognition of himself in snape is the reason he makes this exception - and that he loves fucking with the pride of the posher death eaters by favouring a half-blood with a regional accent over them.
and - as i've said for the concept of snape/regulus - i really like the drama this can introduce into snape's relationship with mulciber, who spends his schooldays feeling superior to snape [and probably treating him quite poorly as a result] but is then confronted by the revelation that the dark lord... much prefers the man he essentially thinks of as a fucktoy to him, and that his father [who it makes sense to assume is also a death eater] wants him to suck up to the big boss' new favourite so they can profit from it.
and snape is a suitably horrible person that he would one hundred percent love the opportunity to lord it over mulciber as mulciber once lorded it over him.
think of the mess.
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THE NICEST POSSIBLE INTERPRETATION of PAUL SIMMS
I suggest using this as deposition prep when Nandermo sues for emotional damages.
Earlier in the panel, the writers confirmed a plot card exists on the wall in their writers room with Nandor + Guillermo + Kiss. Look, they’ve thought about it before!
‘People’ even want it. Whomst could be amongst thee people, he’s not naming names. Ignore the history of queerbaiting as a grand tradition of showrunners, did those showrunners ever tell you the writers room periodically comes back to the discussion of a ship and keep a dedicated index card of space to a potential kiss?
So as far as explicit statement that Nandermo ship is not sexual, keep your showy gays away- Paul does not restate it in exact terms. He still support that it’s a love story- even if that love story is not as we want it right now. He’s not confirming in this statement it’s a chaste one of ONLY boss/employee nor is he saying it cannot grow into another form.
Furthermore, this entire statement is in response to a question. So, he confirms the foundation of love story, divergence between what is desired at this moment and what the writers intend, and even the framing as turning=infidelity/broken trust. Now, just because it wasn’t sexual doesn’t mean it doesn’t impact their greater love story.
I think it’s very useful to dig in here to the actual question poised to Paul; the question explicitly eliminates Paul giving a response that acknowledges the plotline as explicitly romance-advancing in function.
(Even if this plotline is instrumental in their greater romantic storyline and personal journeys which may become romantic.)
His response has to be about the connection between them, and he cannot just respond, “oh because they love each other deeply and wanna fuck.” It’s a nuanced response to a question which took away a romance pairing between the two to explain it as about the interpersonal dynamic. That’s also not the driving factor of the characters.
I also think the writers know what ship they made, and constantly have address the question of Is It Ready Yet? Could, from a creator perspective making a show that is character driven, see a difference between ‘just hook up already’ because that’s what the fans want and these two characters become the richest possible combination because of how they grew together? I don’t know about you, but I tweet about just fucking do it already and write long metas on tumblr about epic loves. I want to see an epic story, not just doing something to get it off their backs.
Here’s the big quote:
Knowing that these questions were prewritten, screened, and answers were practiced because that’s their job on a panel to be prepared, it’s striking to me there was no denial of an explicit romantic relationship. He answered a carefully worded question with a carefully developed response. He’s about to get flustered by an audience interaction, and then dig a deeper hole.
Okay, now here comes our true soldier in the trenches interrupting the panel.
Does that final response not feel scripted? I wonder if the writers for an improv comedy show like to pull off jokes and throw people the scent. Or could that be an actual joke? Did they just spend the first four seasons giving Guillermo more autonomy and power and season 5 see Nandor fighting for his attention?
Or is it amusing to see someone twist themselves in knots trying not to state the obvious? Would the writers really be so unaware of everything else problematic on the show?
Just take a minute to think about the humor on this show. Does this feel like a bit to move the conversation along, away from the thing they don’t want to give anything away?
The love between them doesn’t just have to be sexual. {They could also be like, best friends, or something, like Lazlo and Nadja. Do you think there’s more than one type of love you can have for someone?}
Or, if you’re doing press for your show and your job today is to talk to the media and get the hype for season 6 and confirm filming in Jan, do you maybe have some tricksy talking points that will generate interest and capture attention while also preserving a surprise element. If I didn’t want to give too much away about the new season, especially if it was driven by the final episode and had some major developments on a personal and interpersonal level, I wouldn’t leave much room for further questions, probably drop the big news item to make sure the attention stays on that. Maybe the person doing the interview is a professional and knows the things a showrunner won’t give away before it airs, so there isn’t going to be a hard press to circle back unless the writers do it during their response time.
Also, look at the reiteration the writers explore multiple paths and pick the best one. They certainly picked an interesting option, if the goal was not to bathe the ship in romance tropes.
Oh wait, it looks like one writer (also exec producer) who won’t say spoilers wants to make sure there’s one last hook thrown out there. Almost like it’s softening the response from Simms from a ‘nope’ to a ‘watch and see’ like planned remarks at the end of a panel, or something.
My interpretation of Sam’s comment, in the most generous to shippers, is- this is a driving engine and intentional plot of our show. We want to make the best show. They pay off of getting together has to be worth it and interesting. It’s integral to the story we are telling. Part of our story is the journey and we’re on our timetable, not to rush this.
So, what does Guillermo want?
Can you think of why he’d stick around the vampires, as per the format, if not to become one?
TLDR: the bait is still on the hook. They’re going to keep it there as long as possible. Nothing has been ruled out, in fact it seems like they’re actually building against what they say would be the problematic aspects. I wonder if comedy writers ever a) keep secrets before something is even filmed so who knows what they decide is the best pathway on an improv show or b) tell jokes in plain sight. If they do things to twist our expectations.
It’s a queer show, so this is not queer baiting. It’s just a Will-they-Won’t-they. There are a lot of choices in plot and character arcs which point to someone in the writers room being fluent in better queer characters if not relationship representation. One would think, as a writer, they would Know Their History of Queerbaiting and associated tropes. {Personally, the ‘No One Dies in Shadows’ seems like a nose bop at Buffy, but that’s a meta for another day. }
I find the boss/employee line so unserious considering everything else in the show, and I wonder what tumblr would be like if we focused on the Kiss Card left on the writer’s wall instead.
#nandermo#what we do in the shadows#wwdits meta#wwdits 6#wwdits#nandor x guillermo#guillermo van helsing#guillermo de la cruz#nandor the relentless
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greetings! i absolutely adore and cherish your good omens works, especially ineffable bureaucracy. it’s really fun to see crackships or little “what ifs” created by the fandom, and i was wondering about your own take on ineffable polyamory (a 4-way polyamory relationship between husbands and bureaucracy). i’ve only ever come across a couple pieces divulging in it.
(i realize canonically there’s some unresolved things with gabriel between crowley and azira, but i want to believe being free from heaven and around them all has helped him better himself, and vice versa. it would be so sweet!)
honestly I've been dying for someone to ask me this FKSKDK i think it has a lot of potential!! the four of them are so similar to eachother in more ways than you think, and there's lots you could do with that!
if you know me, you know I put all my good omens energy into clearing gabe and bee's names because I feel their actions are overlooked and also sometimes misinterpreted.
they were cogs in the celestial machine and just did as they were told- never stopping to question their motives, only following god's plan. they were THE top dogs. it's not until they see azi and crowley working together to go against said plan do they slowly realize armageddon is completely useless and they begin to see the humanity and similarities within eachother just like aziraphale and crowley did.
and seeing gabe and bee be so open about their love for eachother influenced azi and crowley to do the same-even if it didn't end well but still lol
what im saying is, these two couples dance around eachother all the time-always influencing eachother indirectly. I think it would be SO fun to throw em all together in the mixing bowl to explore all the potential dynamics!
I think gabe and bee slowly learning from azi and crowley could make for a lot of fun scenarios! likeee for example..demons can't read/write well sooo aziraphale teaches beez! gabriel and crowley enjoying the ancient stars together! aziraphale and gabriel exploring new human foods/drinks! beez and crowley having existential talks (with playful banter)!
idk you could go on and on, I just like multishipping a lot and I will find a way for any ship to work lol, so I see the potential with all four of them, yes!
and I'm already a support pillar of the ineffable bureaucracy fandom Soo if y'all are interested I'm totally down for being a support beam for the ineffable poly as well! I'd love to draw them sometime !! 🤭🤭
#i just like the idea of the two couples coexisting under the same roof think more chaos would ensue that way LOL#but yeah i think abt this alot#good omens#good omens 2#ineffable husbands#ineffable bureaucracy#good omens fandom#asks
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Man, I wish we got to see Lily and Sabah interact with the Undersiders more. Like, there’s an amount of them interacting with Rachel, Aisha, and Tt in Ward, plus a bit during Crushed, but like, the potential dynamic between each of them and younger, less mature Aisha, not to mention Alec and Brian is pretty much nonexistent. And what’s there with the rest of the crew is seriously limited, like, I’m compelled by the resentment Lily clearly still has for Tt even in Ward, but at the same time, does that even make sense? She’s lived the life of a villain for almost four years at that point, she’s bled for the Undersiders. And not just with Sabah. Sabah was trying to integrate with the group, to an extent! She didn’t really know what to do with herself but like, that ~does~ change over time. Also, like, something something the thematic circle of sibling trauma that is Lily (sister tried to kill her), Alec (siblings didn’t necessarily try and kill him literally, until Cherie kind of did, but they sure as hell succeeded at killing some part of him), Tt (failed to be protected by brother, brother killed himself), and Brian (failed to protect sister, sister ended up protecting him instead.)
I mean, it’s probably because of Wildbow’s lesbophobia and if we got to see more of them, we’d have Ward and March, but. I don’t know. Maybe I’ll write something. Missing potential, that’s all. I’d love to see how the existence of lesbians (in a way that he couldn’t avoid thinking about) broke Brian’s brain.
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Rhea for the "send me a character" w/ the "first impression, impression now, etc." ask game!
Cringefail pope my beloved💚
First impression
The days of 3H pre-release are long gone, but from what I remember I didn't think much of her beside her being another Mikoto archetype which I didn't have any interest in. (especially because this was back when I was still on Reddit and by extension the Fates Bad™ circlejerk)
Then I think I remember seeing a screenshot of an official tweet that went something like "fight/destroy the Church of Seiros in Fire Emblem Three Houses" (nevermind it happens in only one of the four routes and the most villainous one at that) so I was something like "welp. guess she's the villain of another Evil Religion™, whatever."
Impression now
fgdgdfgdfgdfgsdfgshfgifuhg
She's my favorite Fodlan character, something I never saw coming.
While I have my issues with how she's treated as a character (mainly being relegated to the red herring for Edelgard in Part 1 and the late Nabatean infodump only to then die in Part 2. You know, when she's not completely absent or treated as the scapedragon. In general she's treated with the "tell don't show" approach Fodlan writing loves) they are definitely mitigated by all the small details that make her so interesting. And while I find her lack of spotlight and moments where she shines at her best incredibly frustrating, I'll admit that digging beneath the surface and starting to see who she actually is as a person is quite fun in its own right.
She's a truly kindhearted, deeply flawed and quite cringe woman. Of course I love her.
Favorite moment
Funnily enough, her weed quest. Not just because the sheer concept of the pope indirectly giving weed to her students is hilarious, but because if you look closer you'll notice that every herb she gives seems to fit the specific students a bit too well to be a coincidence (for example Bernadetta's herb is said to give her the courage to strike a conversation, Marianne's gives her a more positive outlook on life and Ignatz's boosts his self-confidence).
This shows that while she feels unable to get close to the students on a deeper level, she's clearly paying enough attention to them to know the general things they struggle with and tries to secretly help them, and it's really sweet!
Idea for a story
I've been entertaining the idea of a Silver Snow rewrite (AKA a scenario where getting an A support with her changes the entire route instead of just the ending) where Rhea is rescued early and becomes the de-facto lord. Featuring character development where she finally starts to actually talk to the students and her loved ones, Dimitri in a secondary role because I think the dynamic between her and early-timeskip Dimitri, not to metion in a context where Edie's already dead, has some insane potential (also makes for a nice foil to CF).
Also changing from her requirement to survive from being A Rank with Byleth to being A rank with all of her support partners. AKA overcoming her fatal flaw allows her to not only survive, but live.
Basically her learning to stop compulsively keeping secrets, openly talk and get close to others again and rely on other people on a deeper level. You know, the good stuff!
Don't count on it ever actually getting written beyond a few posts though. I know my limits :(
Favorite relationship
Romantically with Catherine, platonically with Cyril!
Unpopular opinion
I mean, this is Rhea we're talking about.
Liking her to begin with and not treating her like she's responsible for everything wrong in Fodlan is already unpopular to begin with.
Also people severely overestimate the political power she actually has.
Favorite headcanon
As a joke headcanon: Rhea has been every single archbishop in the past as well, so to keep humanity from finding out she's a dragon she faked her death every few decades... in increasingly ridiculous ways.
It got to the point where the Seiros faithful believe the position of Archbishop is cursed, and whenever people act concerned about her because of it Rhea is grateful for it but at the same time is internally laughing her ass off.
#ask replies#loregoddess#fire emblem#fire emblem three houses#fe16#fe16 spoilers#rhea#my rambles#imagine: me being unsure of who i'll end up liking 3h beside being fond of bernie already#and there comes rhea with a steel chair
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The Love Square: How Did It Lose Support In the Fandom? (Late 1000 Follower Special)
One of the main selling points of Miraculous Ladybug has always been the Love Square. Let's be honest, while there have been a lot of “will they or won't they?” plotlines in TV, very few of them have really had a dynamic like this. The closest thing I can really think that comes to the Love Square is the growing relationship between Usagi and Mamoru in the first season of Sailor Moon, and even then, the only romance at first was between the two in their hero forms before we found out they were reincarnations of two lovers from thousands of years ago.
The point I'm trying to make is that every Miraculous fan at some point supported the Love Square, whether they continue to ship it to this day, or stopped shipping it after a while. But lately, more people have been turning on the Love Square and the romantic plotlines in Miraculous in general. So I want to dedicate this post to analyzing the Love Square across the past six years, the other romantic “rivals”, and how its all impacted the show.
I think I can summarize what changed in the way the Love Square was written and why it lost its charm, interestingly enough, in four points. So, let's kick off this Anti-Love Square with...
#1: The Lack of Interactions between Marinette and Adrien
Obviously the main draw of the Love Square for man was to see the ways Marinette and Adrien could interact with each other in their different identities. Adrienette, Ladynoir, Marichat, and Ladrien all have interesting setups for different interactions.
Most of the Ladrien episodes tend to show Ladybug and Adrien acting slightly nervous but excited to be around each other, which is an interesting idea in my opinion. It does a good job at representing that stage in your life when you're dating or developing feelings for someone for the first time, and you don't really see anything wrong with them.
Most of the Marichat episodes tend to show Marinette and Cat Noir talking casually while acting like they don't know each other, and is one of the more popular sides of the Square. From what little what we've gotten, Marienette and Cat Noir could be good friends if they got to spend more time together.
Most of the Ladynoir episodes tend to show more romantic tension between Ladybug and Cat Noir, with Cat Noir blatantly making romantic moves towards her, while she has to turn him down because she loves someone else, of course playing off the irony that Cat Noir is the someone else.
And most of the Adrienette episodes tend to show Marinette trying to admit her feelings to Adrien while Adrien remains blissfully unaware of her feelings, making Marinette doubt if he could ever see her that way.
Obviously, there's a lot of potential for interactions here, and we got some episodes in Season 1 that really took advantage of the Love Square.
Of course Ladynoir got the most focus in terms of interactions, but we also got “Stormy Weather”, “Lady Wifi”, and “Dark Cupid” for episodes that really put their relationship at the forefront by showing off their chemistry and dedication to each other, like Cat Noir respecting Ladybug's wishes to keep her identity a secret, and Ladybug having to kiss Cat Noir just to save him, despite how uncomfortable it was for both of them at the time.
We also got some Adrienette episodes in the form of “Kung Food” and “The Gamer”. As... questionable as the themes in the former were, we still got to see Adrien and Marinette interact like normal people with Adrien helping to explain some cultural touchstones to Marinette (I didn't say all the interactions were good, did I?) and Marinette simply talking with him in the park while they snack during the latter.
The big Marichat episode was “The Evillustrator”, with Cat Noir being told to look after Marinette as she goes on her date with an akumatized civilian, leading to a great scene where the two work together to escape a trap by the titular Akuma. It was decent to see how Adrien wanted to put on a flirtatious image around someone other than Marinette, showing how this is how he wants to be seen as Cat Noir, but it unfortunately doesn't go anywhere.
And the big Ladrien episode is “Simon Says”, where Ladybug has to look after Adrien when he and his father are targeted by the Akuma of that episode, which segues into some cute interactions between the two where they're both blushing messes, especially the shower scene.
Even putting all those aside, we still get small moments of all sides of the square, like Adrien asking for Marinette's autograph (Guitar Villain), Cat Noir looking out for Marinette and bantering with her briefly (The Gamer), Ladybug being torn up by Cat Noir's “death” (Timebreaker), and more. The first season generally does a good job building up every side of the square and making sure there's interaction between Marinette and Adrien outside of superhero stuff. We still got that stuff in early Season 2 with episodes like “Riposte”, “Gorizilla”, “Glaciator” (again, I didn't say these episodes were all good, just that they focused on a part of the square), and “Frightengale”, but something seemed to change later on.
In hindsight, there were several warning signs towards the end of Season 2, with episodes like “Troublemaker” and “Frozer”, where it seemed like Marinette was struggling to talk to Adrien more than usual, when she was shown to be able to hold a conversation with Adrien in earlier episodes (Kung Food, The Gamer). Coincidentally, Season 2 was when Astruc got more involved in the writing process. I wonder if there's a connection...
And then we got Season 3, where there were far less episodes focusing on different sides of the Love Square. On the one hand, I can understand because this was the season where there were far more plot-focused episodes, but even the episodes with subplots about Marinette doing a thing to impress Adrien started to lose their goodwill with the audience, like when she teamed up with Chloe to sabotage a potential rival for his feelings (Animaestro), sneaked into an all-guys party at Adrien's house (Party Crasher), tried to confess her feelings for him on the anniversary of his mother's not-death (Felix), and was shown to have already made gifts for Adrien's next 35 birthdays (Chrismaster). All of these happened while there were less episodes where Marinette and Adrien got to interact in their different forms outside of the Akuma fights.
While the more Adrienette-centric episode, “Startrain”, had a nice scene where the two slept together and the other kids in their class supported them, the Ladrien episode, “Desperada”, only served to highlight how unhealthy the way Ladybug and Adrien viewed each other was (which I'll talk about in a little bit), and the Marichat episode, “Weredad”, was basically dedicated to showing how much Astruc hates the pairing by having the two vehemently deny their feelings for each other while thinking having Plagg and Tikki acknowledge how frustrating the Love Square is at this point is a cute meta joke and not screwing with the audience by doing nothing about the Love Square. I'm not making this up when Astruc once said on Twitter that there can't be any Marichat scenes because of the “irony”.
Dude! This is the focal point of your show! I don't care if he's implying the irony that Marinette and Cat Noir don't know who the other is is what makes it a romantic moment when he's ignoring the potential idea of the two possibly developing feelings because the whole idea behind the Love Square is the two developing feelings for each other by interacting with their civilian and superhero identities respectively. Instead, he just said a side of the Love Square essentially doesn't matter because THIS IS WHAT THOMAS ASTRUC ACTUALLY BELIEVES.
Added to that, Season 3 showed Marinette struggling to spend time with Adrien, not just because the writers might think hearing Cristina Vee stumble over her dialogue is the funniest thing in the world, but because Adrien gets shoved into the background of some episodes and only gets a few lines before transforming into Cat Noir.
Like Season 3, the lack of exploration of the other sides of the Square in Season 4 can be explained due to the increased focus on the overarching story and the schism in Ladybug and Cat Noir's partnership, there were still way too many scenes exaggerating Marinette's weird behavior around Adrien, especially her stuttering. It's why “Mr. Pigeon 72” and “Glaciator 2” are really hard episodes to get through for me. And remember, this is supposed to be the season where Marinette steps up and embraces her newfound responsibility as Guardian, yet she still can't muster up the courage to talk to Adrien?
Like, how did they expect us to react to seeing the same joke being repeated over and over again? “DUDE, THOSE SCENES WHERE MARINETTE FAILS TO TALK TO ADRIEN ARE SO FUCKING FUNNY, THEY MAKE ME WANT TO MERGE WITHOUT LOOKING!” Then again, considering Astruc thinks “Backwarder”, an episode focused on Marinette humiliation, is one of the funniest ones, that might be an accurate statement.
It gets even more frustrating when even after four seasons, Marinette is STILL struggling to even hang out with Adrien on her own when they spent time together in other countries (the New York and Shanghai specials), while Adrien “Has Legions of Fangirls” Agreste doesn't even think Marinette is the slightest bit attracted to him. It's moments like this that are why he has the reputation of being an oblivious moron among the fandom. I get that they can't spend all of their time together, but you would think for the main pairing of the show, there would be more interactions between Marinette and Adrien, not helped by...
#2: The Fact That Both Marinette and Adrien Put Each Other on a Pedestal (And the Unhealthy Behavior It Causes)
When we're younger, we tend to view certain people and relationships in a different light than we do now. While it can be an issue at any age, it's especially prevalent as a teenager figuring out how this whole romance thing works. This is also true with the way both Marinette and Adrien view their crushes, but unfortunately, neither of them really learns the problem with this mentality.
With both Marinette and Adrien, they both tend to view the other in an ideal light that gives them the drive to keep pursuing the other, Marinette for Adrien and Cat Noir for Ladybug. While the idea of them showing a high level of admiration for the other is an interesting one, but more often than not, it does more to show how unhealthy this dynamic is.
Take Marinette's feelings for Adrien for example. While I can understand the idea of the show sort of exaggerating her crush on Adrien like a celebrity crush, more often than not, it becomes very creepy and unsettling to watch. Episodes like “Rogercop”, and “Desperada” show off how highly Marinette views Adrien, and how much of a bias she shows toward him, but she only gets called out on it so she can learn the moral for those two episodes, so the lesson on how to view Adrien never sticks. Other than that, there's also the countless times she manages to follow Adrien in an attempt to confess her feelings to him (Stormy Weather, Gamer, Volpina, Oni-Chan, Party Crasher, Mr. Pigeon 72, Glaciator 2, Simpleman), the times she's said she has his schedule memorized (Gigantitan, Shanghai Special), the times she's attempted to sabotage one of her potential rivals for his affection (Animaestro, Ikari Gozen) or the times she's taken her admiration for Adrien to uncomfortable levels by touching things associated with him (The Puppeteer 2, Cat Blanc).
This isn't funny or a charming quirk. It's uncomfortable to watch for a variety of reasons. Obviously, the fact that Marinette rarely gets called out for her behavior is a horrible lesson to teach anyone, no matter the age. Even after episodes where she talks to Adrien and gets to know him more, her attraction to him comes across more as a physical one, as if she's only head over heels for him because of how pretty he is, despite the show acting like she gets what he's really like. If this was actually part of a character arc for Marinette to go through where she learns to appreciate Adrien for more than his beauty like Astruc likes to claim, I'd get it. Instead, all we get are unfunny jokes about Marinette simping over Adrien and memorizing his schedule to the point where it's common for the fandom to label her as a stalker.
Because a majority of the Marinette storylines in the show revolve around her feelings for Adrien, it only puts her flawed view of him on full display. And do I even need to mention that Astruc himself thinks that Marinette's crush on Adrien counts as a personality trait?
THIS IS WHAT THOMAS ASTRUC ACTUALLY BELIEVES.
As for Adrien, he's obviously just as guilty of having a strange view of the girl he loves, Ladybug, only for different reasons. Adrien clearly has this idealized view of Ladybug ever since “Origins”, and like Marinette with her crush, sees it as an excuse to do whatever it takes to become an item with Ladybug. Throughout the show, Adrien has attempted to kiss Ladybug or confess his feelings to her as Cat Noir, has gotten turned down multiple times by Ladybug, yet still doesn't see anything wrong with his behavior (Stormy Weather, Rogercop, Prime Queen, Glaciator, Frozer, Weredad, Glaciator 2). He constantly violates Ladybug's personal boundaries, refuses to see the problem with this, and it could honestly qualify as sexual harassment with how often he does it. Hell, there have been episodes where he was supposedly turned down by Ladybug, and when he got pissy over it, he blamed her for his problems (Frozer, Glaciator 2). You can basically describe a lot of Cat Noir's behavior during the Ladynoir-centric episodes with this one quote with how entitled he feels he is to Ladybug's feelings.
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Of course, the one time he actually realized how uncomfortable Ladybug was in “Glaciator 2”, it was after she had to toss him into a trash can in the middle of a fight and scream how much they weren't an item, and even then, he went back to his old ways by the end of the episode.
And just like Marinette, we're supposed to see Cat Noir's obsession with Ladybug as a charming little quirk, as if we're supposed to encourage this behavior. “Lies” was an episode that really highlighted how immature Cat Noir is, as he was excited at the idea of someone getting akumatized because it meant he could see Ladybug, without understanding the amount of stress the girl he supposedly loves is under now that she's Guardian.
Yes, you can see Cat Noir can be loyal to Ladybug as a partner, but there are times where he fails to see how fallible of a person she really is, or will take the chance to revel at the slightest amount of encouragement. While Ladybug and Cat Noir kissed during “Dark Cupid” and “Oblivio”, even though the context for both instances was very specific, Adrien sees it as proof that they're meant to be, as if one kiss is all it takes to confirm their feelings for one another. Now, this could be an interesting idea to show how romance isn't as easy as fairy tales make it out to be (a deconstructive take Disney has experimented with in the past decade), but we never get told that what Adrien does is wrong, and because this is obviously the endgame ship, the show is pretty much saying this mentality is okay.
Adrien's entitlement can be especially bad in scenarios he really should have learned a lesson from. Take the infamous episode, “Ladybug”, which was where I lost a lot of my tolerance for Cat Noir before Season 4 showed me he could sink even lower than that. To recap, Mayura created a Sentimonster copy of Ladybug to covertly steal Cat Noir's Miraculous while supposedly confessing his love to him, but is stopped by Ladybug. This is a standard television cliche, where one character has to figure out who is the real person, and who is the impostor. You would think that for how much the show says Cat Noir understands Ladybug, he would realize that the ideal Ladybug who randomly confessed his love for him isn't real, right? NOPE! Instead, Cat Noir falls for the evil doppelganger, and is never called out on it. How the hell do you screw up one of the most standard conflicts in TV history, and not even give it any lasting consequences?
This really should have been a wake-up call for Adrien, or at least, a sign he needs to reevaluate his views on Ladybug. You're telling me we're still supposed to believe that he really understands Ladybug when he literally fell for an evil doppelganger who only “proved herself” because she gave him what he wanted? Again, if this was a flaw that Adrien needed to work on, I'd get it, but this betrayal of Ladybug's trust and the audience's common sense is never mentioned again, even in the episode. Because I guess it's more dramatic to see the evil clone's death than it is to see Ladybug lose faith in her partner, am I right? Also, remember how when something very similar happened in Season 4, and Marinette actually faced consequences for what happened? Funny how something bad happened to her in that situation, but Adrien got off scot-free in “Ladybug”.
And despite all of these examples, we're supposed to see Marinette and Adrien as being the only people who understand each other more than their other friends and family. With “Origins”, Marinette supposedly fell in love with Adrien because he showed her kindness and gave her his umbrella. A decent idea, but beyond that, not much is done to show how this affects Marinette, and what other qualities she likes in him. Ironically, it makes her seem just as shallow as Chloe and Lila with how often she gushes over his beauty. Adrien is slightly better, as he at least saw a more vulnerable side of Ladybug before she established herself as Paris' guardian, showing that while she is very courageous, she has a tender side. But like with Marinette's feelings for Adrien, Cat Noir's feelings for Ladybug just seem surface-level as he always has this idealized view of Ladybug in his head without really seeing how flawed she was in “Origins”.
The point I'm trying to make is that even though the show keeps saying Marinette and Adrien understand each other more than anyone else, the show rarely explores this bond, and as a result, does nothing to really get us invested in them as characters. Of course, the show keeps trying anyway, which leads to my next point...
#3: The Way We're Told to Ship Them and Not Shown
A hallmark of romantic stories is giving the audience reasons to support whatever pairing is being focused on in different ways, mainly through showing how compatible they are with each other. Obviously, this isn't what the show tries to do with the Love Square.
Now to be fair, there were some genuine attempts to show how similar Marinette and Adrien are. “The Gamer” and “Guitar Villain” were episodes that revealed that Marinette and Adrien shared some of the same interests and gave them some decent interactions where it felt like they got to know each other better. If we got more episodes like this, it would be a lot easier to see the two as a couple. Season 2 also showed Marinette and Adrien getting some more personal interactions, like the dance scene in “Despair Bear”, the semi-date they went on in “Gorizilla”, and the kiss at the end of “Heroes' Day”. It felt like after seeing Marinette all but show Adrien what her feelings for him were like with a kiss, Season 3 would be the turning point in their relationship when they started to grow closer and become an official couple. What did Season 3 actually do to progress the Love Square?
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Yeah, like a lot of stuff in this show, Season 3 was really where I lost my tolerance for dragging out the Love Square stuff. Not only did the show completely ignore the kiss at the end of Season 2, it really went out of its way to either distance Marinette from Adrien, play up her anxiety and erratic behavior around him, or generally humiliate her whenever she tries to get closer for her crush. Yes, her behavior when talking to/about Adrien in some episodes really wasn't acceptable (Animaestro, Desperada, Chris Master, Party Crasher, The Puppeteer 2, Cat Blanc, Felix), but other times, whenever Marinette tried to do the simple thing and try and figure out how to confess to him, she either got screwed over or humiliated in some way (Backwarder, Reflekdoll, Cat Blanc, Felix). Yes, this was done in earlier episodes (Stormy Weather, The Bubbler, Dark Cupid, Gigantitan, Glaciator, Troublemaker, Frozer), but those were early on into the show's run. Nobody expected Marinette and Adrien to get together by the end of the first or second season, but you can't say it's bad to be impatient when you're three seasons in and you can count the number of conversations Marinette has with Adrien without stuttering on one hand, with no sign of any meaningful development. The writers really wanted to maintain the status quo here, only it was to the detriment of the Love Square.
“Weredad” in particular was an episode that really highlighted how nonexistant Marinette and Adrien's chemestry was, and how the writers really didn't get the idea that part of the appeal of the Love Square was seeing the potential interactions from all four sides. Thanks to a misunderstanding, both Marinette and Cat Noir are mistaken as a couple by Tom, leading to a conflict of interest between Marinette and her parents. This could have lead to an interesting character study for both Marinette and Adrien, as this opened the possibility of the two starting to consider their other alter egos in a romantic light. Instead, neither of them think twice about giving this accidental relationship a chance, decide to break it off in an over the top fashion, all while the writers have the balls to make meta jokes about how ironic this is. “Isn't it funny how frustrating this plotline is? Are you laughing yet? If you aren't, we'll save the reveal for Season 11.” This could have worked, but rather than explore Marinette and Adrien's feelings for each other through the use of Marichat in this episode, they make it more about how bad Marinette's dad feels about the breakup instead of Marinette or Adrien. How does this show expect us to get invested in these two as a couple when they barely get to build chemistry together and interact like human beings?
It feels like the writers are subconsciously aware of this, as there are a lot of episodes where characters like Alya are leading the charge to get Marinette to confess
Other episodes try to make them seem like they're close friends, like “Riposte”, “The Puppeteer 2”, the New York Special, and “Psycomedian”. “Psycomedian” in particular tried to make the idea of Adrien laughing at Marinette's eccentric behavior, something she's deeply ashamed of, a heartwarming thing that makes it seem like he accepts her flaws... I think. And who can forget when Adrien claimed that Marinette was one of his best friends in “Ephemeral”? Seriously, outside of the whole humor thing established in “Psycomedian”, we don't get a lot of reasons as to why Adrien sees Marinette in such a good light. At least with Ladybug and Cat Noir, Ladybug is able to appreciate his humor and willingness to comfort her when things get tough, but we don't get that in their civilian lives. Sure, they try something like that towards the end of Season 4, but all Marinette did was talk to Adrien when he looked visibly upset while nobody thought to do the same thing. “Wow, you showed basic social awareness. You really understand Adrien more than anyone else, Marinette.” The show barely does anything to show how close Marinette and Adrien view each other, platonically or romantically.
But now, let's talk about the seven dirty words that even the ghost of George Carlin isn't willing to say: “Those two are made for each other”. While the phrase were a few passing mentions of it towards the end of the first season (Princess Fragrance, Origins), it got used more after the New York Special, as if the writers thought this would catch on as a meme like “She's just a friend” did. Not only did Aeon and Jessica, two people who didn't even know Marinette and Adrien, say it in that special, but Kagami said it at the end of “Mr. Pigeon 72”, and even Andre during “Glaciator 2”.
So many characters have to tell us how it's supposedly obvious that Marinette and Adrien are the perfect couple within five seconds of meeting them, instead of giving us a reason to actually care about them being a couple. Even their alter egos aren't immune to this mentality, as whenever there's a big report on Ladybug and Cat Noir kissing, everyone is willing to ignore the context and see it as proof that they're an item (Prime Queen, Oblivio, Glaciator 2). It gets to the point where the only people who aren't actively shipping Adrienette or Ladynoir are the villains. Remember how we were supposed to hate Kagami for supposedly being a roadblock for Marinette in her quest to get together with Adrien, even though she wasn't nearly as mean as Chloe or Lila were?
That's a pretty good way to summarize the way the writers view the audience's perception of the Love Square. As soon as anyone gets in the way, good or bad, they're automatically an enemy for daring to stop Marinette and Adrien (who are totally made for each other, you guys) from being together. It's especially rich when you remember all the times the writers have dragged out the plotline in ways that had nothing to do with Kagami, Chloe, or Lila, yet we're supposed to act like these three dragging out the plotline is far worse than any other episode that does nothing to progress Marinette and Adrien's relationship. And speaking of, let's get into our final point...
#4: The Lengths the Writers Will Go to Drag Out the Plotline (And Why It’s Ultimately Detrimental to Both Characters)
Look, I get that the Love Square is the main attraction according to the writers, and that the buildup to Marinette and Adrien getting together is one of the primary story arcs in the show, so we shouldn't expect them to get together by the end of the second season. The biggest problem I have with the Love Square isn't just how dragged out the dynamic is, but how the current situation with the Love Square harms both Marinette and Adrien as characters.
Something the show really wants to remind the audience of is how deep Marinette and Adrien's feelings for the other is, as a majority of the episodes throughout the entire series revolve around Marinette or Adrien attempting to make a move on the other in some way through whatever zany scheme they come up with (Stormy Weather, The Bubbler, Copycat, Mr. Pigeon, Dark Cupid, Horrificator, Kung Food, The Gamer, Reflekta, Volpina, Riposte, Gigantitan, Glaciator, Frozer, Heroes' Day, Animaestro, Backwarder, Reflekdoll, Weredad, Onichan, Desperada, Ikari Gozen, Party Crasher, The Puppeteer 2, Cat Blanc, Felix, Ladybug, New York Special, Shanghai Special, Mr. Pigeon 72, Psycomedian, Glaciator 2, Simpleman, Ephemeral, Kuro Neko, Risk). When the complicated relationship between Marinette and Adrien is put at the forefront with no signs of any character or plot development, it only serves to highlight how poor the overarching story is.
Most people were okay with some of the writing in Season 1, with episodes like “Copycat” and “Volpina” being starting points for Marinette and Adrien to grow more as characters and get to know each other. Unfortunately, as the show progressed, both of them essentially stayed the same, though Astruc will still claim Marinette being forced into becoming the Guardian somehow counts as character development.
THIS IS WHAT THOMAS ASTRUC ACTUALLY BELIEVES.
Yes, Astruc said he wanted to keep the characters consistent as a way for new views to ease into, but this makes it damn near impossible for any kind of development to happen. You can't have this both ways. You need to decide on making this a fun Saturday morning cartoon with no high stakes, or a serialized cartoon with shifting character dynamics and a changing status quo. If you want people to take the Love Square seriously, you need to focus on making the show as a whole the latter. Unfortunately, the show tends to lean more into the former, so Marinette and Adrien's perception of the other never really changes on any corner of the Love Square, even after four seasons. Again, Season 1 should have been a starting point. Nobody thought the dynamic between Marinette and Adrien would be almost exactly the same as it was, with the exception of them occasionally referring to the other as a friend for some reason.
And because so much focus goes into the Love Square, and the way both Marinette and Adrien act in the name of their respective crushes, they rarely get called out on their boundary-pushing behavior. Because I guess it's okay to do morally questionable things in the name of love, am I right? Marinette never gets called out for trying to steal Adrien's phone to delete a message (Copycat), trying to frame Adrien's bodyguard for a parking violation (Gigantitan), trying to humiliate Kagami in order to ruin her chances with Adrien (Animaestro), or trying to sabotage one of his photoshoots just so she has an excuse to talk to him (Simpleman). Meanwhile, Adrien never gets called out for lying about being in a relationship with Ladybug (Copycat), acting like he was stood up by Ladybug when she never confirmed she would be free for their “date” (Glaciator), trying to use a Miraculous he isn't familiar with just to get brownie points with Ladybug in his civilian life (Desperada), or refusing to realize Ladybug isn't interested in him even after getting beat up by her in frustration (Glaciator 2). It's been four seasons since this show started, both Marinette and Adrien have done terrible things, yet rather than use this as a point to show how they can grow like what Crazy Ex-Girlfriend did with its main character, the writers either gloss over this behavior, make jokes about how weird it is, or have other characters try to justify it.
This is a terrible way to portray any main character, and the fact that Astruc sees nothing wrong with either of them really shows how he doesn't understand the idea of writing romance.
But it seems like the writers weren't sure how else they could pad out the show's runtime, so they decided to introduce some more sides to make this Love Square a Love Hexagon in the form of Luka and Kagami. The main idea behind secondary love interests is to add drama to the current romantic subplot. Before Friends really started to run the Ross and Rachael subplot into the ground, Julie made for an interesting complication in the second season. Just as Rachel was coming to terms with her feelings for Ross, Ross himself was seemingly starting to move on from his feelings for Rachael through his relationship with Julie, leading into them eventually getting together for the first time. It's clear that Luka and Kagami were meant to fill the same role that Julie had, making Marinette and Adrien reevaluate their feelings for each other, but the problem was that their dynamic didn't really change as a result. Sure, there were some episodes where Marinette was conflicted on whether she really had feelings for Adrien or Luka (Captain Hardrock, Frozer, Silencer), but it wasn't enough to have much of an impact on her feelings for Adrien, which got a lot more focus in the second and third seasons. As for Kagami, she arguably got it worse because Adrien seemed less conflicted and seemed to care more for Ladybug than he did her, not helped by her focus episodes not doing much to build up her relationship with Adrien (Riposte, Onichan, Ikari Gozen).
But hey, maybe some time in a real relationship for the first time was what Marinette and Adrien needed to really learn what they need to do to make their romantic lives work, right? It's too bad the writers never considered that, because Lukanette and Adrigami ended as soon as they started. Sure, the idea of their breakups being explained away by their conflicting feelings mixed with the stress of being superheroes sounds interesting (funny how the writers never considered that could screw up Adrienette, isn't it?), but even if you aren't a hardcore shipper, it's hard to get invested in these relationships because we didn't get to see how their lives changed outside of a single episode.
While Ross and Julie broke up offscreen, there was still plenty of time dedicated to showing how genuine their bond was, and why it was so hard for Ross to choose between her and Rachael. Here, it feels like the writers had no idea how to write either pair, so they broke them up to make things easier and go back to the stuff they're comfortable with, the Love Square. This whole fiasco really shows how much time the writers are willing to waste if it means drawing out the Love Square, no matter how contrived the drama could be. It just leaves you asking what the point of focusing on these relationships was if they would ultimately amount to nothing?
And even if the writers try to build up the idea of how awesome these two would be as a couple, seeing how they're made for each other, they can't even do that right without showing how terrible things could be if Marinette and Adrien got together. It's pretty clear that “Cat Blanc” and “Ephemeral” were episodes meant to explain why it's too dangerous for Marinette and Adrien to get together and know each other's identity, but it ultimately gave people more reasons to not support them as a couple. Both episodes essentially followed the same premise: Marinette and Adrien learn each other's identity (in “Cat Blanc”, it's by accident, but in “Ephemeral”, it's on purpose), but as soon as Gabriel learned his son was Cat Noir, he decided to psychologically torment him and causes the end of the world.
We're meant to see this as a reason why it's too risky for Marinette and Adrien to be in a relationship, but the issue is the negative connotations that come with these episodes and how Astruc himself likes to explain them. With “Cat Blanc”, Marinette's plan to deliver a present for Adrien by sneaking into his room as Ladybug, as innocent as it was in concept (pillow sniffing aside), the episode said that the reason the world itself ended was because Marinette delivered said present to Adrien, which caused Gabriel to accidentally find out his identity and eventually akumatize him into Cat Blanc. They didn't say Gabriel, as in, the main villain who can brainwash anyone having a bad day, is the major reason as to why it's too dangerous for Marinette and Adrien to know each other's identites. Instead, they framed the simple act of Marinette trying to give Adrien a present and potentially confess her feeling to her with no intention of finding out he's really a superhero, as what ultimately caused the end of the world. Bunnix and Cat Blanc himself said that the act was caused it, not Gabriel for akumatizing Adrien in the first place. And don't forget when Astruc himself claimed that she caused the Blancpocalypse and billions of deaths for the unforgivable crime of wanting to give Adrien a hat.
THIS IS WHAT THOMAS ASTRUC ACTUALLY BELIEVES.
And while it isn't as bad in “Ephemeral”, as their relationship was only secondary to how they function as partners, when talking about the episode on Twitter, Astruc once again blamed Marinette for starting to date Adrien and once again caused the end of the world, according to his twisted logic.
THIS IS WHAT THOMAS ASTRUC ACTU—You know what? You get the point.
This is a terrible message to convey, as it states that Marinette doing something for Adrien, or even trying to take a risk by starting a relationship with him is a terrible idea, because both times we saw them become a couple, Gabriel exploited it through no fault of their own. I know it sounds like I'm only bringing up how this is bad for Marinette, but the point I'm trying to make is that in general, despite constantly telling the audience to advocate for Marinette and Adrien eventually becoming an item, whenever it's actually shown in canon, it leads to something bad. It ultimately paints the idea of Marinette and Adrien revealing their identities to each other as something we should dread, not something we should look forward to. If we're supposed to want Marinette and Adrien to get together, how come both times it's actually happened, it ends in tragedy, and said tragedy is blamed on their relationship?
Conclusion
I don't think anyone wanted to end up hating the Love Square as much as they do now. Like a lot of things in this show, there was clearly a lot of potential to use here, but unfortunately, it was squandered by a terrible execution. Marinette and Adrien have been shown to be a terrible match for each other because of their own behavior and personal issues. And of course, if you don't like the Love Square, you have no choice but to deal with this show's attempt to make us ship Adrienette, but only ends up making us hate the ship more than ever.
As of the time of this post (June 7th, 2022), Season 5 is about to premiere next week. Supposedly, the reveal will happen for real sometime this season, but it doesn't sound as exciting to me as it should be. Rather than be eager to see Marinette and Adrien realize their feelings for each other, I just want to see the show finally put this subplot to rest with them deciding to hook up as soon as they figure out each other's identities. It's pretty sad that this is the kind of mentality I have regarding the state of this subplot, isn't it?
#immaturity of thomas astruc#iota#thomas astruc#thomas astruc salt#miraculous ladybug#miraculous ladybug salt#ml salt#love square salt#love square critical#anti love square#marinette dupain cheng#ladybug#adrien agreste#cat noir#chat noir
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You're in Denial: Arthur X Celestine
Lady Celestine is one of the four heroes of Yore and just happens to be the love of Arthur's life. She's a very integral character... kickstarting serval events in the story. I hinted at their dynamic in the past: it's the classic enemies-to-lovers troupe (my favorite- blame Bridgerton: They're Kate & Anthony )
Their relationship is an integral part of the story: hopefully, I can get you all on board this ship (it's okay if you don't, it's part of the prelude). She kicks off several plot points in the story. She's the oracle & blacksmith of the GSA and is responsible for creating Triple Star, Exabliur, and Galaxia (unfinished - completed by another). But her main job was to look after the Fountain of Dreams that was in the temple of the ancients.
Which is where this lovely scene takes place. (And they're lotus flowers, not lilies...)
This happens before Meta and Gala, so this is a young Arthur (the before times).
Sir Uther had three apprentices...
The pecking order was: Arthur, Morgan, and Nonsurat. Which created a wall between Arthur and the other two. It also didn't help that Arthur wasn't the nicest guy either.
Before, Arthur was known as Sir Uther's "golden boy"... Cold and calculating, ready and willing to do Uther's bidding without question. An unfeeling war machine by Uther's design. He was Sir Uther's top soldier: a position Morgan envied & despised Arthur for it...
He was at the top, but it was a lonely spot. As a result, Arthur had closed his heart off from the world: never being his own person. Causing him to wear an apathetic and arrogant personality. He was his master's tool, nothing more. This was his lot in life, and he had accepted all of it.
On Celestine's end, she was a caged bird all her life...
Celestine can't predict the exact future... only show potential paths. But with her powers can guide people to the outcome they want. Which is why she's given the title of Navigator of the Constellations. Nightmare knew of her ability and desperately wanted her power. Only appearing with if alongside the other heroes of Yore when needed (which was only Uther & Icarus at the time).
However, there was a sinister reason behind it... the ancients wanted to monopolize her power. And was confined to the temple most of her life as a result.
Because of her powers, she knew what the ancients really were; a bunch of self-serving hypocrites. So she played the "naive, sweet little priestess": but hid the heart of a dragon. She had a few followers that served under her court; her position kept them within arms reach. In reality, she was alone...
She's the Merlin of the story and Celestine... did not take kindly to Arthur. When she found out that Arthur would be the one to end Uther's reign... "there has to be another Arthur because this one's an arrogant little prick!" She met him a few times: shadowing Uther, and saw him as his dirty henchman.
Arthur did not have a high opinion either of Celestine due to Uther's influence. As the chief blacksmith, Celestine would hire based on talent. She did not care if a person was a high-born or low-born... which Uther did not like. Uther saw her as a foolish little girl who did not know how the world worked. As a result, Arthur saw her as a sheltered, naive, delusional dreamer... however, this would all change.
After the temple was attacked by Nightmare: he was assigned as Celestine's bodyguard. Arthur was not ready for the bucket of sass that was Celestine. Sharp, witty, and vicious (with a few other surprises), she was not one to be messed with.
Arthur was at her mercy since she was technically above him. Though much to his surprise: she insisted on being treated as his equal. Unlike his master: who demanded respect... she was nothing like him. Celestine infuriated & fascinated him all at the same time.
For Celestine, she took this as a chance to reform him... which translated to: "For the sake of the galaxy, I need to take this man down a peg!" But... was pleasantly surprised that her original notions of him were wrong (half of them he was still a little prick ). And teased him every chance she got to reprogram him from his "unfeelingness,"... much to Arthur's annoyance and her delight. But she came to care for the man more than the prophecy.
In time they both realized they suffered the same loneliness. And found comfort in each company... and valued their time together. Arthur, he did not need to be"Sir Uther's golden boy": just Arthur... the feeling was mutual on Celestine's end. She never needed to pretend with Arthur and felt safe being herself with him.
They loved each other but didn't know the words. Both were too inexperienced and young to realize this. And if they did say it... their positions wouldn't allow it... What became of Lady Celestine?
Hmm... oh, I wonder what happened to her?
Keep reading to hear a bit about Morgan... (the runner up in the poll)
Morgan herself was also supposed to be one of the heroes of Yore and complete the set (of four)... But it just didn't fit well. I wanted her to have more emotional weight. Making her one of Uther's apprentices and a rivalry with Arthur seemed more fitting.
There was more of a personal connection to them. Giving her more reason to want to take over the GSA. Always desiring Uther's praise and recognition but never receiving it.
If Morgan won the poll, it (the comic) would've been about her and Norsurant. While they may have been the spares; Norsurant & Morgan always had each other (in a sibling sense).
But after Arthur fell from grace by taking in MK: Morgan became obsessed with taking his (Arthur's) spot. And ended up leaving Norsurant behind to pursue the empty spot. However, this incident also changed his relationship with Arthur.
Like Morgan: Nonsurat believed that Arthur was the golden child that could do no wrong. But after this incident: made realize that he had Arthur figured out all wrong.
#kirby oc#lady celestine#sir arthur#sir arthur kirby#kbasw#kirby gsa#kirby#hoshi no kaabii#oc x canon#kirby anime#them so much but make them suffer#voting poll#kirby right back at ya#krbay#celarthur
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How do you feel about Tommy being back in Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver - what do you hope for his interactions with Wanda and Pietro and his place in the story? Bonus: this might lead to his first interaction of significance with Vision 🤣
I'm pretty excited, any interactions between Pietro and Tommy are bound to be fun and I wonder if Tommy and Luna will ever meet. I do worry with all the extra characters involved and two villians (not to mention the Wizard's army) that this 4 issue series may be overstuffed and suffer from pacing issues. The advertised core of the story is the Maximoff twins relationships but depending on how early the fight is in issue 1 and the point at which they meet up again in issue 3 they might actually spend half the series separated (not keen about Wanda potentially spending more time with a former love interest than her own brother in a book which is heavily advertised to be about siblinghood and family).
Yeah, I'm actually a little nervous about the pacing. I really, truly, do enjoy Orlando's writing and the work he's done with these characters, but the pacing has been a consistent problem. To be fair, the short run of Scarlet Witch and unconventional structure of Darkhold weren't his fault-- those are editorial and publishing decisions-- but I felt like both titles were overstuffed and it caused him to elide or rush past moments that really needed more page time. The back half of Scarlet Witch #10 is low key sloppy, and it left me feeling kind of sour on the whole second arc of the series. I really hope SW&Q doesn't repeat that experience.
I'm kind of assuming that #2 and #3 are going to be more self-contained-- I don't think that Wanda, Vision, Tommy and Pietro are going to actually end up all in the same place. I hope that Tommy at least gets to see his mom, but I won't be surprised if he doesn't. Sorry to be a downer, but it's like you said-- we've got a lot stuffed into four issues, so we need to keep things moving fast. No pun intended.
Anyways, my main concern for Tommy is addressing the fallout of the Hellfire Gala and David's apparent death. Presumably, Tommy just got back to Earth and is going to be processing a whole lot of grief. Orlando collaborates regularly with Steve Foxe, so even if SW&Q doesn't spend a lot of time on this, I do expect there to be good continuity for Tommy's relationship and the time that he's been spending in outer space.
I do have a lot of ideas about what kind of dynamics Tommy should have with Wanda and Pietro, and ordinarily I would want to focus on developing those relationships-- him having a fun rivalry with Pietro and being able to connect with him about their unique mental and emotional wavelengths; him actually having a fulfilling parent-child relationship with Wanda for the first time in his life-- but I just don't feel like it would be right for Tommy to show up in a lighthearted mood right now. It sucks, because he already gets so little page time, but I don't want fun, sweet Tommy content. I want someone to actually take this character seriously, and I think right now, that means he's going to be in kind of a bad place, emotionally.
Who knows, maybe he'll be the one to push Wanda and Pietro-- but especially Wanda-- to do more in the fight against Orchis. I doubt it, since this is very much not an X-Men title, but it would a clever way to loop them back in.
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Two years later and DuckTales 2017 finale gives conflicting emotions. But it is interesting. It simultaneously uplifts and takes away from the found family trope. It is all about choosing to love people and accepting them as family. However, when you watch how Scrooge accepts people into his family compared to how he accepts a “daughter” when he already has several kids really shows that writers missed on the delivery and potential implications.
Because yeah he accepts Webby as his daughter instantly but in that same note he also shows there’s difference between being his niece/nephew and being his child. He imitates Donald, an actual parent, and smothers a child who has been quite literally trained to kill. He’s never exhibited such protectiveness to anyone or any of the children he’s had, including Donald and Della.
The show defined what constitutes a parent from an uncle or an aunt. While Scrooge saw HDL, Donald, and Della as his kids, he wasn’t their parent. They weren’t his responsibility. You’d ask, what about Donald and Della? Where are their parents? Alive. The artbook confirmed Hortense and Quackmore are living on Grandma’s farm, and they travel a lot. Scrooge could go on dangerous trips with children and not feel a sense of dread or overwhelming concern for these children because ultimately they weren’t his kids in the same way Webby is.
I don’t think that was the intent when writing the scene, but that’s the implication. It’s like what? Found family is still present with Webby and Beakley. Beakley chose to love Webby, and Webby loves Beakley. They choose to love each other. They chose their family. That’s good.
However, it doesn’t have the same character significance as it would have with Scrooge. Of the characters, Scrooge really needed to learn that lesson. He’s egotistical. He’s self-absorbed. He believes the hype of his own character because he lives the hype.
Beakley has always been a more grounded character who’s remained consistent in her common sense. She didn’t need to learn the importance of non-biological family. She already knew it. She has no ties to her family name or issues concerning being the last of her clan. Scrooge did. In the comics, him choosing to pursue wealth and fortune definitely comes up as a reason why he doesn’t have children (Goldie).
Webby being his daughter (or preferably granddaughter, come on writers) isn’t an inherently bad idea. But for the length of show and its execution, it wasn’t the best way to conclude the story. There wasn’t significant buildup for the plot reveal or any concern for how this would change the family dynamics. Let alone the fact Webby had zero interest in knowing more about her family. If there were four seasons, they should’ve kept it in and dealt with all the consequences that came with this discovery.
Yeah, I’ve been rewatching the show.
#ducktales#ducktales 2017#scrooge mcduck#webby vanderquack#bentina beakley#scrooge imo is a girl dad but in a bad way#from what we can tell#he definitely resonated with della and webby bc they were the most similar to him#and exhibited multiple traits he found admirable and connected to himself#also della and webby are always his loudest cheerleaders#where donald hdl while respecting him are likelier to criticize him
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controversial star wars opinion - I think anisoka gets too much of a bad rap. like honestly im surprised at how disliked (or outright despised) the ship is in the fandom. like yes I do see how there's a notable power imbalance since they are teacher/student, but I don't get the whole "age difference" point because they have basically the same age difference as padme and anakin. also, its not like anyone can't explore the idea of a romantic relationship between them when they're older. ahsoka didn't stop aging at 17. sorry that this is long, I just see a lot of untapped potential in their dynamic and im salty that theres such a stigma surrounding a fairly tame ship
Oh Anon, it's like you read my mind.
I'm extra salty that Anisoka has such a stigma attached to it, to the point where the it's practically radioactive when compared to ships like Obikin or even Anidala.
If we're going to start treating ships as radioactive because they have an unhealthy power imbalance, the SW fandom better invest in some heavy-duty hazmat suits.
Padme and Anakin have the same age gap, and Padme met Anakin when he was nine. Meanwhile, Obi-Wan raised Anakin from that same age, meeting him for the first time when he was in his twenties.
(I'm very aware that there are Obikin antis, but Anisoka seems to be treated as even more toxic)
I'm not saying that Obikin and Anidala deserve hate, they don't, I'm just saying it's strange that Anisoka is so disproportionately targeted.
Also, as you said, Ahsoka didn't stop aging at seventeen. In Ahsoka (the series) she's in her forties.
But, I'll be fair and briefly try to see it from the other side's point of view.
Unlike Anidala and Obikin, most of Anakin and Ahsoka's canon interactions happen when he's a grown man and she's an underage girl, and yes, the teacher/student aspect is understandably squicky to a lot of people.
Also, unfortunately, there is a lot of utterly revolting stuff out there depicting Anakin and Ahsoka that's set during The Clone Wars. I don't consider this garbage to be fan art, or representative of Anisoka fans. It's genuinely horrific and vile, and I think it really poisoned the well as far as perception of Anisoka goes.
(...and trust me, when I say something is horrific, I'm not exaggerating)
Anyway, time to ramble about my own Anisoka feelings!
I loved seeing Anakin growing fonder and fonder of Ahsoka in a completely platonic way over the course of The Clone Wars. It was a highlight of the series for me.
...but, my first introduction to Ahsoka Tano was through Rosario Dawson playing her in live-action, starting with The Mandalorian.
Part of me will always see Ahsoka Tano as a grown woman, played by an actress who has incredible chemistry with Hayden Christensen.
So can you blame me for shipping them?!
That's not even going into all the potential of their relationship.
I've got four Anisoka WIPs in my drafts right now, and they all approach the relationship from different angles. I found crafting each dynamic completely fascinating.
But I also find their platonic dynamic fascinating too. Across the Stars uses Anakin and Ahsoka's relationship to trigger a turning point in the plot, and another WIP of mine is a cute and platonic Clone Wars-era prompt that I'm loving as much as the Anisoka WIPs.
Now I need to apologize for rambling on too long!
...anyway, everyone please read my fics ;)
-Jesse xx
(...also is it just me, or can anyone else hear a hornet's nest buzzing?)
#star wars#anakin skywalker#ahsoka tano#anisoka#star wars the clone wars#ahsoka series#jesse’s star wars confessional
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I like megasound best as amicas while shipping megatron with kiloton. I’m not sure who I ship soundwave with. He’s so platonic if that makes sense. I also like starshock. I think trines is why slipstream gets excluded from team starscream which is sad because looking up formations, so much can be done with a group of 4.
Personally I don't quite understand why I see so many people saying MegaSound has Amica vibes more so than Conjunx ones… to me, I don't really see anything about their relationship that is different than ones that people like to ship romantically? Like you mention Kiloton—was Megatron's reaction to Soundwave being injured from early-ish in the IDW comics really different at all from what happened in G2/Ask Vector Prime with Kiloton? To me, it seems exactly the same. And there was also how Galvatron in the Headmasters anime was actually so upset by Soundwave's death, too! Very OOC of Galvatron! Nothing about Soundwave says "not into romance" to me, either, but then again I think if people knew which character I think has massive aro vibes they'd be shocked, so XD
When it comes to shipping Soundwave, other than MegaSound, I do also ship him with Hot Rod in Cyberverse. I really enjoyed the development of that relationship and thought it was nearly canon? The creators did reblog shipping art of that ship, anyway.
I think Starscream and Slipstream have an extremely underutilized dynamic that has a lot of potential. For me, personally, I'd see it as Slipstream being the disgruntled middle management who cleans up Starscream's messes second-in-command Starscream both thinks he's mentoring, but is also extremely jealous of due to her competence and especially due to her stability. She doesn't have flashy powers, and yet she accomplishes so much without self-hatred! Something Starscream just can't seem to do. And she is uncomfortable with how obvious his conflicted emotions are, but she still follows his orders. I've never found any other dynamic between those four characters interesting... there was just nothing there IMO in the Sunbow cartoon, for example. Starscream threatens Thundercracker and Skywarp, they bully him and think he's a geek... that's about it. The Conehead Seekers seemed like way more of a unit to me. And I know Skywarp and Thundercracker were close in the IDW comics, but I don't feel interested in that.
#MegaSound#Megatron#Soundwave#Kiloton#Starscream#Slipstream#my analysis#Oh and re: StarShock#I do think Shockwave and Starscream have had past relationships and infatuations#but that's the only ship I could see working out well in the end
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❤️🧡💚💖 trc
❤: Which character do you think is the most egregiously mischaracterized by the fandom?
— Because I’ve been in the fandom a really long time but phased in and out in terms of how active I was in it/how much I payed active attention to fanon I think pretty much each of the core four has gotten the brunt of this at some point. I’m going to hesitantly say Adam just because I think fandom flip flops between extremes when interpreting him the most. Blue and Gansey are definitely both candidates too given that at different times “Blue is a horrible misogynist” and “Gansey is an abusive friend” have been not unpopular fandom takes 💀.
🧡: What is a popular (serious) theory you disagree with?
— interpretations of the Adam accepting money for the rent from Ronan when he wouldn’t from Gansey as like, because Adam cares about Ronan more / because Ronan was inherently cleverer about how he offered help. I’ve reblogged a couple metas about it I Do agree with this is probably the best to me: https://www.tumblr.com/nimmieamee/140043652516/hi-just-wanted-to-say-your-adam-parrish-meta-is?source=share
💚: What does everyone else get wrong about your favorite character?
for Blue, I think people over inflate her “judgmental” streak it’s definitely a flaw she has but not to nearly the extent it’s portrayed as a lot of the time. Blue is one of the most empathetic characters (I keep thinking about that factoid I told you about where in earlier drafts Blue had literal empath powers.. the mirroring is adjacent to that concept still but it’s so a story avenue I’d love to see explored sometime I have some ideas for how I would write it although idk if I’ll get around), once those initial judgements are challenged she’s very quick to start altering her perceptions, not 100% perfectly (she’s a teenager with feelings) but she does try constantly.
for Adam, I’ve talked about this recently but I think he’s often made more cool, collected and perfectly logical in fanon as opposed to canon. Obviously he’s cerebral and a logical thinker, but he values and strives for that perfect cold logic ideal but he is honestly Such an emotional mess throughout trc. He tries so hard to deal with his emotions logically and fails extraordinarily badly and it’s fascinating to watch, so fanon that has him be a lot more sterile and perfect re: emotional control lose a lot of what’s interesting to me about his character.
💖: What is your biggest unpopular opinion about the series? — I think ultimately the fact I’m p neutral on Kavinsky and Rovinsky counts as quite unpopular, since generally fans are in the camp of either firm hate or firm love and I’m niether + historically am bored by most of that discourse through the years for reasons we’ve discussed previously. I love plenty of chars and dynamics who fit a similar vein to him/them so I roll my eyes at most morality panic about it, but also the Dream pack standom back in the day was deeply insufferable and killed potential for interest.
#s speaks#asks#lovemineallmine#trc#mutuals#there’s so much more I have to say on some of these but I didn’t have the energy to embellish.#blue sargent#adam parrish
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but what if the entire lucina gang were sent to fates instead of just 3??
ANON IM SORRY THIS TOOK ME LIKE FIVE YEARS TO GET TO i got the ask and i was like “omg i literally have something in my notes about this i’ll pull it up when i have time” and then i just fucking forgot. sorry. and then i remembered again. and then life started like rapid fire punching me in the face. but im here now im answering it now im so sorry anyways its probably gonna be long and unorganized so cut
okay anyways so i think there’s a lot of different ways you can implement the second gen into fates and firstly my favorite and also the most stupid way to do so and also what i have in my notes is to split em all up between the four nohrian royals. they all get three new retainers from bumfuck nowhere and it makes no sense and it creates the worst dynamics ever. i assigned them like this:
xander: inigo, kjelle, laurent
camilla: severa, noire, yarne
leo: owain, cynthia, nah
elise: gerome, brady, lucina
and then morgans not there bc they throw off the even split but i think in that case, maybe corrin gets both of them? i think thatd be cute. anyways i’d be willing to move any of them like im not that attached to these placements, but i quite like the potential lord retainer dynamics that happen here. kjelle and laurent might seem a bit too similar to xander in terms of stoicism but hear me out. i think raging feminist man hating lesbian kjelle being tossed to work under xander would be fucking hilarious. you know how inigo almost beat xander in that match? guess who’d wipe the floor with him. and then i think laurents like. like laurent is normal passing. but you see he also has the pent up rage of an bullied 13 year old soon to be if not corrected incel and i think having that be explored with xander would be actually fucking hilarious. imagine one day xander is just like “hey laurent can you do something for me?” and laurent, whos been dealing with reeling back in inigo and kjelle (and uh. maybe peri if shes still here i havent thought that part through) and is absolutely sick of everyones bullshit just snaps and goes “NO! NO I FUCKING CANT!” and everyone in nohr just has this feeling of unease. something in the universe just broke.
and then with camilla i was like “well who would she dote on the most” and i picked noire and yarne. i can understand why yarne might be controversial because he is not a cute girl HOWEVER consider that he IS a cute rabbit. very cute. and hes terrified of everything all the time. i think camilla would find that charming and i think he would be terrified of her but also like. extremely devoted?? like i think he’d respect and look up to her a lot. just. just let me do that twenty feet away from you. please (lonqu!yarne????) but also i think theres very motherlike aspect to camilla that i think could eventually break through yarnes anxiety if she just started approaching him a little differently. and also the fact that shes one of nohrs best warriors and would murder anyone who comes close to harming him would probably help feel a little more secure in not dying. like it wouldnt fix him but it might help. and then noire is similar except she IS a cute girl and also i think camilla would be insanely into her talisman persona. make of that what you will i dont know but also going back to camilla as a motherish figure so obviously all of the future kids moms kicked the bucket meaning they all lacked proper mother figures for a good chunk of their lives, but noire never really had a proper mother figure… at all? bc bad timeline tharja was fucking abusive! so i think if she could find some of what she was missing in camilla, whether of not its particularly healthy i dont know but i think if she could that’d set up something interesting between them. theres also the fact that camilla and tharja are slightly similar in their callousness, only that camillas isnt aimed at her allies like tharjas sometimes is. i think that could actually end up being really comforting for noire in an oddly familiar way. healthy? debatable. but… interesting. DO YOU GUYS SEE MY VISION AM I INSANE
and then leo. ok im iffy on these guys like i could move them. but i think cynthia would be a nice retainer for leo to have bc i think they could have a fun “woah youre so cool! like a real hero” “im not the hero you think i am or want me to be” conversation and that wouldnt require cynthia to be his retainer to have but i think it would be nice. im not sure he’d send her on the same missions he sent odin on because shes not cosplaying as the worlds greatest mage (… or is she… no i dont think she’d abandon her pegasus) so theyd get on a lot easier at first. nah is here because i wanted to give leo a break and also i think leo being curious about a manakete thats similar but also not too much similar to corrin would be interesting. idk tho this is my least favorite placement. would be willing to switch.
and then for elise’s new retainers its interesting because shes the only nohr royal who didnt get an awakening kid so. ive given her three new ones. ger bear is here bc i think itd be fucking hilarious. yes, maybe itd make more sense to put him with xander or leo. i dont care though. i want him to bow down to the littlest princess of nohr, nohrs absolute sunshine, blah blah blah. also i think it’d be good for him. dude needs some sunshine. brady i was a little iffy on. i almost placed him with leo and im not sure where i prefer him actually, but i stuck him with elise because i think in some way, elise might, at first glance, remind him a bit of his mother. and kinda like with noire im not sure if its the healthiest way to go about his grief because elise is evidently not maribelle, but i think it could be a fun little arc for him to go through to try and break that image and learn to not project everything he wished maribelle couldve done for him onto elise. bradys a real funky guy i want him to go through some turmoil. and then lucina is here because i love their warriors support conversation and i think lucina being around elise could be so incredibly healing to the part of her that never got a chance to be a kid. and elise is a really fucking smart character yk i think she’d catch on really easily to how much lucina represses and try to bring it out of her. actually this goes for gerome and brady too i think she’d see a lot of her siblings in them and try to bring out as much of their childishness as she can because FUCK!!! these bitches are SAD!!! send help!!
this au is incredibly unrealistic and jambled but i just like thinking about it. i have no idea how this would affect the plot of fates. nohr’s army just gets a huge fucking power boost i guess???? they could probably kill anankos on their own. i believe it. but im quite honestly not all that interested in the giant plot i just like thinking about how the characters might interact and change. the nohrian royals and the awakening gen are just. so insane. and i didnt even bring up the rest of the fates cast (this post is fucking LONG ENOUGH) but i will be thinking. oh yes i will be thinking.
#anon im so fucking sorry#but thank you for giving me the opportunity to be a lil stupid and insane about what goes on inside my notes app#if u guys are wondering if i have any semblance of a plot for any of this the answer is no#i didnt have a single other thought while writing this like this is me typing exactly what hit my brain and how it hit#no idea if its even understandable#asks
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