#his role.... from a meta perspective.......... anyways
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do elaborate on ness & kurona…..
the '''red''' sidekick (ik ness is purple, but it like, inches towards red, it's a reddish purple)
both play supporting roles and don't try to score for themselves
no eyebrows lol this one's a joke
very devoted to their respective partner (kaiser / isagi) at the expense of making their own goals (and a lot of charas' ego revolves around that n stuff)
starting to be a bit delusional here but i do think its possible their egos awaken at the same time, maybe not Bc of each other but it certainly could mirror (or they do see a reflection of themself in the other
since their current role is to be support, they realise u need individualism to be an egoist or something like that
and then u get an interesting contrast where even tho they have similar roles, for a lack of better words, ness is unhinged and kurona is just trying to help
i think ness would hate seeing kurona is like him, even tho he's the same (bc they're the same)
i can also see ness taking his anger out on the person most important to isagi in this arc, the other half of his planet hotline, bc i believe in him getting worse (positive) (not the word im looking for but kaiser is... fair?? to an extent, like he'll acknowledge that his opponent is skilled, but ness? he won't agree no matter how hard u squeeze his headー tl;dr i can see him doing underhanded... things)
i consider any ship with my fav
i like their height difference, even tho we dunno what their heights are we can use my Isagi Yoichi Height Ruler™️ aka kurona's shorter than isagi, so ofc he's gonna be shorter than ness
i like the idea of ness bullying him, bc i like seeing my fav get bullied and also ness is like that, but at the same time i dont think kurona would take that sitting down so i also want to see him bite back, i want them to figuratively bite each other and fist fight
tl;dr i think they (can) mirror each other, if only they'd talk to each other 😔
this got so long i dont even know what i wrote , there might be other stuff i forgor about , it is what it is but
i just think they could have an interesting dynamic mostly and i like any ship out of these four like i mentioned in my tags
also warning there's SO many tags on this one oh my god
#i dont know how to words as usual#theres just....theres just stuff you can do here and i can see it#id be the clown of this story if im way off and kurona never actually gets anything hahahahaha(negative#jk about being way off. who knows whats going to happen#im srs about kurona never getting any spotlight im like. legitimately worried about that but thats another thing#his role.... from a meta perspective.......... anyways#also#i would say kurona is selfless vs ness is selfish (as in his devotion to kaiser is to make Himself feel better#self inflicted dependency? i still dunno how to word this) but u could argue that kurona is only following isagi to be able to play HOWEVER#for the sake of playing i'll follow you) during the match it became real and it wasnt just about being able to play anymore#oops tangent that's a differnet pair(#ness/kurona mirror as a result of kaiser/isagi is entirely possible#i want to make it clear i dont ship them bc theyre 'leftovers' from kaiser/isagi. thinking about it like that makes me sad.#or mildly annoyed but not to a serious extent#its one of those things where if they were shipped bc they happened to be alone bc kaiser/isagi already exists then. i dont want that#anyway#i actually started writing a short fic about them where ness is just terrible#idk if i can get very far bc i usually have the most motivation writing for my otp#mailbox
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I am not sure if anyone here has already made this connection or pointed this out (apologies if so), but while doing some research into Flatland/the 11 dimensions the other day, I discovered something pretty interesting…
…
In the ‘Book of Bill’ announcement video, as well as distorted, synthesised background music and the Morse Code (which has already been deciphered), we can also hear several lines of spoken dialogue, the first of which being the line: “some other mystic dimension”.
Timestamp: 0:04
youtube
Now, this line already raises several questions - which ‘dimension’ is being referring to here? And why is it considered to be ‘mystic(al)’? Well, we don’t have a definite answer to either of those questions just yet, but if you will humour me for a moment, I have a few suggestions. Either this ‘other mystic dimension’ could be referring to Bill’s own homeland, the Second Dimension (which would naturally be considered ‘other’, ‘mystic’ and generally unfamiliar to us, the readers), or perhaps, it is referring to the Third Dimension itself, or what is known as Spaceland (Height/Up) in Abbott’s novella. I think the latter to be far more likely, especially with what I am about to show you. This is where my excessive YouTube deep-diving habits came in useful.
…
During my research quest, I stumbled upon this video of the famous astronomer and science communicator Carl Sagan (take note of this name) explaining the concept of the Fourth Dimension, as well as other Flatland-adjacent things. And lo and behold, at 4:37, what do we hear?
youtube
“And the poor Square has to say: ‘Well, I was in some other mystic dimension called Up…”
Yes, that’s right. The exact words that were used in the promo video.
To provide you some context, here Sagan is recounting the experience of A Square who, with the guidance and revelations of A Sphere, has just returned from a recent foray into the Third Dimension, and is trying to explain his sudden disappearance and newfound knowledge of Height to his friends. So saying, it is likely that the ‘other mystic dimension’ being referred to in the BoB video is in fact, the Third Dimension, since this is a book that has been written from Bill’s perspective, and it seems that he will be filling in the role of A Square in this narrative, discovering the Secrets Of The Universe and all. Although, I must emphasise that this is still just speculation on my part, based on the assumption that Bill’s backstory will be pretty similar to, if not a direct retelling of Flatland:
“Flat minds in a flat world with flat dreams.”
Who knows, Alex Hirsch may just subvert our expectations entirely.
“I liberated my dimension (…)” / “Saw his own dimension burn. Misses home and can’t return.”
…
Anyway, I have another little piece of the puzzle to share. The line spoken in the announcement video isn’t merely a word-for-word recreation of what Carl Sagan said, It is Carl Sagan. They used a direct clip from an episode of Cosmos. This has me giddy with excitement, because Carl Sagan, a man with much notoriety within the scientific community, and many achievements and accolades to his name, is known to be one of Ford’s scientific idols.
The level of detail in this show, and I guess now in its extended literary canon’s advertisement material, is insane. Do with this information what you will. Perhaps there’s a connection here that will be expounded upon in the book. Perhaps it’s just a cool reference. Even so, it is a very intriguing one nonetheless, especially with the tie-ins to Flatland, theoretical physics and Ford’s hero-worshipping. It’s clearly intentional.
…
(If anyone is interested, here is an excellent meta which provides a very detailed exploration and analysis of Ford’s respective connections to Sagan and Tesla.)
#gravity falls#stanford pines#ford pines#bill cipher#bill cipher analysis#the book of bill#book of bill#carl sagan#flatland#flatland: a romance of many dimensions#edwin abbott abbott#second dimension#third dimension#gravity falls analysis#gravity falls meta
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Why Zagreus is such a good character
*Obligatory Hades spoiler ahead*
Zagreus is so so so interesting from a meta perspective. While his design certainly went into the "attractive bad boy" direction, he is not your usual hyper-masculine protagonist.
Definitely not!
It starts off with his physique, which is not that of a tall, beefy body builder, but more of an ancient greek athlete. He is also shorter than most other Gods, of average size by mortal standards, and doesn’t take kindly to people making fun of his height. I find that a fascinating character design choice to make. From there, let's continue with his character.
His temperament is sanguine; he is a ray of sunshine and loves to share all the warmth that rests in his heart. Which is a fascinating trait to have as Prince of the Underworld, who is veiled in Darkness by Mother Night, Nyx, herself. The following Berserk quote comes to mind: "He who bears light exists in the deepest shadow".
(There is a big conceptual overlap between Hades and Berserk, but I’ll just leave it at that for this post)
Zagreus is a sociable, extroverted type who values family and bonds over everything, is respectful, polite, charming. From someone like him, genuine kindness and honesty are a guarantee. Together with his capacity to empathize, it allows him to form meaningful relationships. His noble spirit and attitude are befitting of a prince. He does not mind stepping out of his comfort zone and challenge himself, either.
When you first beat Hades, he asks Zagreus to tell Persephone that Cerberus is doing well. Zagreus instead demanded an answer for a question in exchange of telling her. However, this question was left unanswered as Hades was taken by the Styx before he could reply. Later on, because Zagreus is a good-natured person and knows his priorities, picking his mother’s needs over the grudge he could hold against his father, he tells Persephone anyways.
There are moments in the game where he is sensitive, observant and catches up on social cues very quickly. He listens to others and apologizes to them when he feels like he may have overstepped a boundary, such was the case when Thanatos berated him for allowing Orpheus visiting his muse Eurodyce and meddled into their affairs without their consent.
Sometimes he appears to have troubles expressing what he feels, or is perhaps insecure or anxious to express it (particularly when interacting with Meg, who is rather intimidating). But despite his hesitations and fears I think he is still doing a good job at it.
Judging from a brief conversation with Alecto, he appears to know how to form healthy habits and deal with difficult situations in a productive, nurturing manner (the fact that 1. Alecto doesn’t take kindly to his attempts at getting along and 2. Zag doesn’t like her for it, is kinda funny to me). He is capable to mediate and settle conflicts between people, this is literally one of the game's primary goals.
Judging by what happened between him and Megaera, it appears he also wasn't always this mature and went a long way learning from his mistakes. His sometimes boastful confidence and his running mouth probably were one of them. Regardless, I'm deeply impressed with Zagreus' emotional intelligence and maturity.
Considering how so many other protagonists typically are characterized, this such an unusual way to write a male one, and as such he really stands out.
I believe it is absolutely necessary that protagonists like him exist and we honestly do need more like him: as these shine a different light on nurturing masculinity and what it can be.
Zagreus is not less of a man because of the radiant and kind person he is. Quite the opposite so, I personally find him extremely attractive (he’s doing things to me oml). He is just being himself: unfiltered, optimistic, with a good sense of humor. He is not even trying to fulfill any gender roles in any shape or form, simply embracing the bonds he has for what they are, living the moment. He does whatever it takes to make the world around him a better place and make the people around him happier. And he started doing that once he stopped running away from his problems.
This reassurance is something boys and men (including those who identify as such) urgently need nowadays.
PS: I’m still not over the fact he canonically likes plushies, the lil dork
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shoutout to @princeasimdiya12 for their super cool matakara utena analysis, check it out i am chewing on it as i write this!!! i was honestly blindsided by how much the two had in common and it really made me think about why my interpretation was the way it was in the first place, so this ended up being…about a lot of other things, and a lot more complicated than my arajin utena post.
anyway, you wanna see me go fully off the rails? *slaps matakara = reverse anthy ramblings on the table*
(i would recommend reading my reverse utena arajin post first for slight context for this insanity. also some major utena spoilers below the cut, so be warned!!)
Now I can hear you asking: How is Matakara the reverse Anthy to Arajin's reverse Utena? How is Matakara an Anthy in the first place?? crafty how the fuck does this make sense to you this show is not that deep??? I can answer two of those questions!
First we gotta bring up princesses again. Princesses do not have a tangible equivalent like how honki people = princes, but they don't have to have one. After all, princesses plays a vital role in the Aladdin allusion. And yes by the logic of Utena all girls are princesses, but Matakara is specifically the princess to Arajin's 'prince', which from an meta perspective is what makes him special. But he's not the only princess. Let's talk Arajin and Mahoro!
(there was a tangent here about how the show defines strength, but it was kind of off topic so I cut it. TLDR, uhhh despite some evidence stating otherwise strength in bucchigiri exists separately from gender, something something girls can be honki people men can be princesses etc.)
In RGU, the student council members and Utena see worth in claiming Anthy because to them the Rose Bride is a symbol of something they wish to attain. Their wishes stem from events from their past, and since they all refuse to grow past these events they remain stagnant characters, trapped within the academy.
Guess who also remains stagnant because he refuses to mature past his wish!
(what i'm getting from this is that a reverse anthy is a lot like an utena lol)
Let's focus on Arajin for a second. Arajin, as the reverse Utena, abandoned the honki person dream as soon as he realised he couldn't save Matakara. Mahoro is a symbol of the ordinary life as a teenage boy he wants to have, and Matakara symbolises the fairytale he doesn't feel worthy of and wants to leave behind. Mahoro is like Anthy (and Matakara) kind of in the way that Nanami is like Anthy. Essence of Anthy. Rose Bride Lite. Which makes Matakara more of an Anthy imo.
(I think there's something to be said about compulsory heterosexuality if you consider how Mahoro being a girl makes her a conventional princess for Arajin to chase, while Matakara may be everything Arajin wants, but his gender and closeness to the fairytale Arajin is trying to escape bars him from being an option. Also interesting how no matter how Arajin tries to distract himself with Mahoro, everything he wants Mahoro to be eventually circles back to Matakara.)
(something could also be said about the mahoro/matakara and nanami/anthy parallels, but i Do Not have the brainpower to unpack that atm lmao)
Anyway, Arajin is just so, stupidly determined to achieve his dream, which I think makes him a lot more Utena-like. Matakara...not so much? Before Arajin comes back into his life, it's the community of Minato Kai that gives him the stability he needs to largely ignore his monster, so he kind of puts his dream on the back burner.
He was doing fine...then Arajin fell back into his life and he got reminded of the promise he left behind.
So, Matakara is a princess! He's literally the princess of the fairytale allusion and he's someone who wants to be saved from a monster (the nebulous driving force for princes to save girls and turn them into princesses). In Anthy's case, the monster Utena wanted to save her from was the burden of humanity's hatred. Matakara's monster is a product of his own inner darkness.
It’s established that while Matakara may have a strong will, he’s too weak-hearted to become a honki person on his own. In fact, his weak heart is exactly what makes him a princess. But even then he doesn't fully fit into the mould. Princesses are supposed to be pure and passive, and Matakara is neither (at least not completely). His darkness may manifest as a monster, but before his recruitment into Minato Kai he goes to pretty morally dubious lengths in his attempts to become ‘strong’. Furthermore, not only is he rejected by his prince, it's revealed to him that his prince never existed. Arajin was a liar, and he was never going to save him. And so Ichiya uses that against him. He acts as Matakara’s saviour and threatens him with the idea of the monster to get him to kill the 'false' prince.
As powerful as she is, years of trauma have made it impossible for Anthy to break from the cycle of abuse on her own. Isolated from all support, Matakara is not in a mental state where he can break free of his monster either. Ichiya and Akio have free reign to manipulate Matakara and Anthy into becoming vessels for their revolution because at this point in the plot, they're all they have left. The twisted visions of the once-noble prince and honki person.
In Utena terms, Matakara is a princess who wants to defeat his own monster by becoming a prince. Anthy is a princess who doesn't think she should be saved at all. Matakara is someone who fights tooth and nail to be free from his demons at all costs, while Anthy simply allows hers to consume her out of guilt and love for the monster she used to know. Both need help from someone who understands them.
But killing the fake prince won't turn Matakara into a prince himself. What was that saying about girls who can’t be saved by a prince? What's left for you if you're not strong enough to be a prince and not pure enough to be a princess?
Anthy could tell you.
Matakara from Episode 1-7 reminds me of the version of Anthy from Adolescene of Utena. Dios and Akio can no longer directly influence Anthy, so she gets to be far more strong-willed and assertive. However, she’s still ultimately trapped within mental barriers she’s set for herself, hence why she still wants Utena to become her prince (like how Matakara still wants to become a honki person with Arajin). If you interpret Adolescence as a sequel to the original series like I do, then you can picture Matakara's descent from Adolescence Anthy to RGU Anthy due to Ichiya and Akutaro's manipulations as the reverse of Anthy’s character progression.
so...matakara is basically a reverse anthy.
Incredibly jaded Anthy neck-deep in manipulative abuse from a higher power gradually warms up to Utena because of her genuine kindness and inner strength. Incredibly naive Matakara is manipulated by a higher power into losing faith in Arajin through the revelation that his strength and bravery were an illusion. Through their abuse and suffering both characters attain power that stored/drawn from their chest/heart from someone emotionally manipulating the absolute shit out of them to serve their own selfish goals. Almost the whole cast victimises Anthy and considers her lower than them, while Utena alone treats her like an equal. Matakara alone believes he’s inferior to Arajin and strives to be on even ground to him, while Arajin pushes Matakara away because he believes he’s not good enough for Matakara. Anthy gives Utena a respectful title that she gives to all of her grooms, only to call Utena by her name without any honorifics once she’s freed herself from the Rose Bride system. Everyone who wants to get close to Arajin gives him a nickname, but Matakara’s is particularly childish and personal. Anthy's older brother is a manipulative monster, and Anthy’s ultimate revolution is her emancipation from him and the system he perpetuates. Matakara's older brother is so ideologically good it ultimately becomes his downfall, and his injury becomes the catalyst for Matakara’s descent into despair. Anthy constantly changes how she acts depending on who she needs to manipulate into the duels. Matakara is the only main character who always presents himself with utmost sincerity. They’re both full of love at their core, but their circumstances fill them with hatred and hopelessness. Their first reintroductions to Utena and Arajin are them being observed through a window. They both suck at cooking. i have to post this before the next episode proves me wrong-
#bucchigiri?!#matakara asamine#anthy himemiya#revolutionary girl utena#reading way too far into stories through an utena-ist lens can be something so personal#i need utena anthy matakara and arajin all in a room together. see who kills who first#crafty speaks
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Ok I'm trying again. I've gotten over the dungeon master pun so I'm gonna say what I actually meant to.
Anime onlys don't look.
So the thing about the dungeon masters is, I know we saw dungeon masters of different races in the epilogue, but I think Rui-sensei was trying to make a point in having three of the four dungeon masters we know best being elves, and the one to actually defeat the demon being a human.
Elves are the longest lived species and they have a habit of treating everyone else as children or pets. They also have the greatest grasp on magic. And it's explicitly said that the elves are the ones who hide the true nature of dungeons and demons from the other races, because they think the other races can't handle it. But it is Marcille, Thistle, and Mithrun who fall to the demon's tricks. Even though the elves think of themselves as above the other races, these three fall to the demon. You could argue that they didn't realize that the demon was dangerous, and it's true, they didn't know. But I'm talking from a meta-perspective--why was it that it's the *elves* who fall for the demon? Because the elves have always been prideful. They think they know better than any other race.
And then we have Laois. And he too falls to the demon. First, I love that because throughout the story, we've had this dichotomy of "Laois loves monsters" and "Laois wants to protect the people he loves". And they have always been treated as mutually exclusive--Laois can't indulge in his monster love without hurting his friends. But then, we see that once his friends give his monster obsession a chance, they can find things they like about it too. Marcille is still creeped out when she thinks too hard about where the food comes from, but she's willing to eat the finished product (which, lbr, is most modern peoples reactions to food). Chilchuck started thinking Senshi and Laois were crazy, but by the end of it, he was ok with it. Even Izutsumi comes around.
And then, Laois gets his wish. To become his super cool original monster oc donut steal. And everyone is prepared for the worst. Everyone thinks this is Laois' betrayal--he couldn't hold back against his monster obsession and thus he will kill all the humans.
Only, he doesn't. It is by becoming this monster that he gains his power to defeat the winged lion. It is his love of monsters and his want to be one that creates his ability to protect the ones he loves. Even though they still don't fully understand him, even though the lion offered him what he always wanted--he used his love of monsters for his friends and family. And really.... That's what he's always been doing. No one else saw it at first, but he has always been using his obsession to help the people he loves. And even at the very end, he did the same.
And anyway, I think that's an important reason why the elves kept falling to the demon. The elves are magical and long lived and wise, but from what we see, they're.... Lonely. They have their strict hierarchy and their stuffy rules with each other, and with other races, they take on the role of sole caretaker to these little things who can't possibly understand the "real world." Even Marcille falls to this. But Laois, who has always been on the outside, never stopped trying to empathize with others. He calls Chilchuck "Chil" (something extremely personal to halflings); he doesn't hold a grudge when Namari leaves the group after Falin dies; hell, even though it didn't end well, his insistence on being friendly with Toshiro was probably him trying to avoid doing to Toshiro what others have always done to him. He adores Senshi and Izutsumi. His succubus is Marcille smiling. He isn't lonely anymore.
And the elves who become dungeon masters, don't seem to have that. Mithrun felt alone due to his lover and brother. Marcille and Thistle both felt like they had to protect their shorter lived family. But Laois didn't feel that isolation. Well, he did in his village. But when meeting with his friends and forming their little party, he realized he wasn't alone anymore. And that became more important than even being a monster.
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Re your meta: How has immortality not been a good experience for Darkling? He grew to be quite powerful because of the immortality and time.
I’ve talked about this before in a slightly different context.
He does have power, but that power has been acquired at the expense of all other potentials for happiness.
I would frankly argue that immortality bringing him misery isn’t necessarily a matter of interpretation rather than outright text. The narration often brings attention to his bleakness. He is isolated, feared by even the people closest to him— rightfully so. His most important relationship is with his mother, an equally miserable and bitter woman who he blinds, who eventually commits suicide in a bid to stop him. The sincerity of his desire for some sort of connection with Alina is debatable (I think it is genuine) but it is fact that he basically has no one else.
His life just doesn’t sound particularly fulfilling! And you may attribute that to his actions rather than it being an inherent effect of immortality. But immortality is what has shaped him into the person that he is by the trilogy.
In my opinion, the story doesn’t function if the Darkling is happy. If he were happy, he wouldn’t be so unchangeable in his perspective or *afraid* to be proven wrong. If he were happy, he wouldn’t need Alina to turn out exactly like him and to validate his choices. He is a character that is ruled by sunk cost fallacy.
He is positioned in the narrative as Alina’s foil and the threat of what she could become. The story draws a direct line between power and immortality, and the main theme it is concerned with is the inherent corruptive nature of power. Therefore immortality itself, as a concept, is presented as a corrupting state.
I don’t tend to approach the trilogy and the duology as a single narrative, because I feel they thematically contradict each other and aren’t written with the same ideas in mind. But it’s worth bringing up that the other immortals we see in KoS are uniquely warped, completely othered from humanity, and also distinctly miserable. Even outside of their purgatory, Elizaveta would simply never be happy. Neither would the shambling, shape shifting mass that is Grigori. The series pretty consistently presents immortality as a cruel and wholly transformative fate that, ideally, should be avoided.
That’s why in Demon in the Wood we see the Darkling so young and so vulnerable. He has a capacity for cruelty even then, but it’s explicitly due to the direness of his circumstances. That’s also why the faint nods to his insistence of the Grisha following peasant customs is, imo, really integral. Likewise, his claim to only being motivated by the greater good of his country and Grisha as a whole, is a farce now. But it wasn’t always. To fulfill his role in the narrative, he cannot have always been an unfeeling, selfish mass murderer. It’s his long life that has slowly transformed him into that.
He starts out ambitious, but that ambition has eaten at him from the inside until he’s nothing but a husk. The sheer force of time has slowly worn away at his morals, has made him discover that there isn’t any line he wouldn’t cross if it‘s for a good enough purpose. And over the years, the bar he needs to clear for “good enough” drops lower and lower.
The longer he lives, the lonelier he becomes, the less he sees other people as people, they’ll all die in the blink of an eye anyway. The more he sacrifices for gaining power, the more he becomes convinced that power is the only thing that matters. He cannot even consider any other way to live, because if he did, that means acknowledging that all those centuries of being miserable were for nothing.
I know your question wasn’t a moral one, rather than approaching it from his perspective of happiness. But with such a (formerly) ideals driven character, I think the realization that he’s sitting on centuries’ worth of accumulated corpses for absolutely no pay off or greater purpose is itself a looming source of anguish that he’s trying very, very hard to avoid.
#shadow and bone#grishaverse#king of scars#the darkling#aleksander morozova#all the bendy punctuations#a mysterious stranger has appeared#i ramble sometimes#meta#*writer’s cap*
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Just wanted to let you know that I read your meta and find it so spot-on and enlightening - this message is just me, nodding along.
My gf and I watch OFMD and as a victim of bullying, she sympathises a lot with Stede’s position. My closest friends in school were all bullied as well. To us, it feels natural to conclude that Jack’s a toxic, abusive bully and that his (limited, thank God) role in the narrative is at least in part to show us what that means - for Stede, who refuses to put up with it now that he has a choice and for Ed, who has to learn the hard way that if he sides with Jack, he becomes just another bully, someone who’ll naturally backstab others and limit himself to having ‘fun’ in destructice, toxic ways. It takes courage to step away from, especially if you think that’s all you deserve; it’s easier (in an awful way) to just play along and resign yourself to the fact that you aren’t strong enough to choose better which, I guess, is what many do and one reason why bullying can persist and be so destructive. We watch that episode very rarely, actually, because the bullying behaviour is just too well-portrayed and it’s honestly uncomfortable to watch at times (as it should be). Also, apologies if any of this reads awkwardly, English is not my first language. Thanks for sharing all your insights!
Thank you. Honestly, one of the reasons I dislike Jack and some of the fanonization of him as much as I do is because he seems so obviously a bully to me. He isolates Stede, he mocks him, he gets others to join in mocking him and to make him feel low. He’s there to tell Stede “Ed doesn’t really like you, I know who Ed is, Ed thinks you’re ridiculous, everyone thinks you’re ridiculous.” And he makes it look (to Stede) like that’s what Ed thinks too. And Ed starts to see that and the damage he is causing, and how he really does have to decide to either become Jack or not.
I do know what toxic friendships feel like and how they work and how horrible it is to be manipulated by someone and not have anyone outside believe you. So it does, admittedly, bother me to see how some people have minimized Jack’s harm or argued that his bullying isn’t all really bullying. I find it upsetting, which has definitely fueled my own discourse over the past few days.
This stuff is INTERESTING, though, and I really wish things hadn’t gotten as heated as they did (and some of that is very much on me).
Anyway, thank you. I think most folks are ignoring me on this now, which is fine.
Additional: the hardest part in a lot of ways is how Ed participates. It hurts when someone who is supposed to be your friend seems to side with your bully. Someone said that Ed tries to include Stede, but…maybe Stede really doesn’t want to play and he shouldn’t have to. That moment when he leaves the ship is so heartbreaking from Stede’s perspective because to him it really does say “we were never really friends.”
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Hi! I was wondering, what do you think Simon and Sara’s relationship is going to look like in season 3? It’s been shown that they had a really strong connection as siblings but do you think that might be permanently broken? I hope that you are having a wonderful day!!
Ahh, thank you for this message! And I very much love talking about the Eriksson siblings, so your ask has made my day.
As a heads up, I write from Sara’s POV in the longfic I share with @heliza24, and as such tend to think of a lot of the events in Young Royals from Sara’s point of view first. So this response may be more about her than about Simon, since I am wholly unused to thinking of things from his perspective. I invite some of my more Simon-savvy folks to weigh in on his behalf, if they see one of my points that they could build on. I have also linked some of my past metas in case they are illuminating.
So I am thinking—hoping—that the resolution to the Eriksson siblings falling out will be one of the major plotlines in season 3. I imagine that they will reconcile with one another, but I also imagine that Lisa will make us stress our way through it, because she takes great pride in playing with our emotions and making us cry.
Before I talk about season 3, I want to talk a little bit about what gets established as true in season 1. While Simon and Sara do have a strong bond with one another, there are also unspoken tensions running through their relationship from the beginning. Simon’s been parentified into a role where he thinks he has to look after Sara and help her find friends and be successful at school. Meanwhile, Sara wants to be more independent and have a chance to define herself outside of her home and her family. Sometimes this comes out in messy ways, like when she talks about her cheap riding pants. I also think about what’s unspoken, like when Simon has Rosh and Ayub wish Sara a happy birthday. This is an incredibly sweet gesture on Simon’s part. At the same time, I can imagine it was potentially pretty embarrassing for Sara throughout her teenage years to have no friends of her own, such that her brother attempts to share his friends with her.
On one hand, Sara and Simon celebrate one another’s happiness. Simon is glad to see Sara becoming friends with Felice, Sara teases Simon in a loving way when she figures out his relationship with Wilhelm is taking off. On the other hand, they are also starting to keep secrets from one another. Simon’s going to see his father, for instance. While on the surface, that’s mostly about the “business” of the money and the booze and so on, I think there’s also a part of Simon that misses connecting with his father over music and other things. There is a part of him that wants things to be better, who (based on what Ayub says, anyway) always ends up disappointed. Meanwhile, I would argue that Sara and August are already developing attraction to one another before the video gets released. Even without the video release happening it’s likely more would have happened between them and that this would have affected Sara’s relationship with her family and friends, although it would have happened in a very different way.
ANYWAY. Part of the reason I’m bringing up this rehash of season 1 in the first place is that I think we as a fandom tend to idealize that scene with Sara teasing Simon about being in love with a prince. And it’s incredibly cute! It’s easy to feel sympathy for Sara in that moment because she’s doing something a lot of members of fandom would do in her place. Wouldn’t we all love to tease Simon about being in love with Wille?
Outside of that scene, though, there are other moments where the Eriksson siblings aren’t quite on the same page, or there’s tension between them that’s going to come out in other ways later. Not because one or both of the Eriksson siblings is evil, but because they’re both growing up and figuring out who they are and what they value, with all the mistakes along the way that entails. Even if the video never got released, they still would have had to reconcile the different people they are becoming and the different ways they grapple with their family history of trauma. August is not the root of the tension between them, but he is the catalyst that brings that tension to the surface. In another situation, it might have been something else. I think any good reconciliation scene has to have that complex understanding of their season 1 relationship lying underneath it if it’s going to feel satisfying.
As for paths to reconciliation, I can’t say I know exactly how things are going to play out. I have a few thoughts about what sorts of plot points could make for good storylines (they don’t all need to happen, these are just different ideas I could see working) and a few things I don’t want to see happen onscreen. So I’ll organize them into bullet points below.
Things I’d be interested in seeing happen with the Eriksson siblings:
I keep wondering if Sara might run away or disappear for a while at the beginning of season 3 in a way that has people close to her worried. At the end of season 2 she’s costumed in a way that feels stuck between worlds, wearing the half of her Hillerska uniform without insignia and the purple jacket that matches her brother’s signature color. I don’t know if I believe Sara was taking that suitcase back to Linda’s house, at least not long term. I can see her trying to run away from everything. A situation like that could shake things up for both Simon and August and force them to talk to one another in situations that don’t involve rowing or drug intrigue, and that could make for interesting interpersonal drama. Like a scene where August and Simon actually have to interact honestly and there’s impassioned yelling of truths? Give it to me. I’m honestly more excited for that than I am for sweet Wilmon moments, because I’m 99% certain I’m getting enough sweet Wilmon moments to make me happy, but I don’t know if I’m getting anything equivalent to the “Simon beats up August in a field and then August rocks and cries” scene we see in 1.3, and I love that scene.
I’d also love a series of events where Wilhelm and Sara get to know one another more, and Wilhelm then acts as the person who helps the siblings reconcile. There’s a reason the writing team has gone out of their way to keep Wilhelm and Sara from interacting for so long, and it’s probably because they have some deeply significant interaction planned between them. Wilhelm would also be motivated to help Simon and Sara reconcile because he knows what it feels like to lose a sibling. And I think it would help Sara to get to know Wilhelm, too. She doesn’t know much about him the way the audience does. At the beginning of season 2, Sara isn’t super trustful of Wilhelm, and given what she knows about him, this actually makes perfect sense. I can see his coming out speech at the end of season 2 as something that lays the foundation for her to trust him more fully, though of course their relationship would need to be built up over time.
A storyline where Sara is pregnant could theoretically be on the table. This one opens up thematic questions about adulthood and whether we can break generational cycles, and that could be the catalyst for some worthwhile Sara-Simon conversations. If Sara decides to seek an abortion, she might be in a position where she confides in Simon about that. This could shift the calculus of their relationship a bit—before, Simon’s protectiveness of Sara, although well-intended, has always had him responding to her as if she is younger, or at least less mature. Yet this would be a situation that they could respond to as young people entering adulthood, perhaps more as equals. Alternately, combining this idea with the idea above, what if through a series of events it ends up being Wilhelm who finds out that Sara is pregnant and supporting her through the abortion process? There’s potential there, too.
If Sara doesn’t run away, she may try to move in with her father. I know a lot of people don’t think it’s likely, but she went through enough life-changing things last season. If she doesn’t feel comfortable going home to Linda, maybe she feels like going to her dad is the only place she can go. This could also push her relationship with Simon in new directions, and push them to have some needed conversations.
Overall, I would also like Sara and Simon to realize that they have some important things in common, and that they are more alike than they are different. Both of them are deeply empathetic and caring, but also at times guarded because of their past traumas. Also for fuck’s sake they somehow managed to fall in love with the teen boys who were first and second in line for the throne, and yet neither of them comes across as particularly monarchist. There’s got to be a dark humor in that, right? I hope we get a scene where they’re able to laugh about that—not in a way that trivializes it, but in a way where you feel the gravity of their situation sinking in.
Things I don’t want to see happen:
I do not want to see Sara get a Dorothy Gale, humbling, click-your-heels ending where she’s back home and everything reverts back to “status quo” and we’re supposed to assume she’s happier, and it’s only then that she can reconcile with Simon. I especially do not want to see this in a universe where it looks like Simon’s going to end up an internationally renowned music star or Prince Consort or both. I just feel like this happens to female characters a lot, and so many female character arcs are about being humbled. It’s easy to think of the part of herself Sara shows at Hillerska as “not the real Sara” but… Sara is eighteen. She’s figuring out who she is. I think Sara At Home and the Sara At Fancy Boarding School are both real, in a way, and she’s figuring out how to integrate those aspects of her personality that are in conflcit. Maybe this is something I feel strongly about because of the way school, and especially university, helped me express sides of myself that I wasn’t able to express at home growing up. But if the message we get sent about Sara is that only her brother and her mother knew the “real her” and she should just be humble or whatever, I will eat an entire bar of soap out of rage or something.
Likewise for the show using rhetoric along the lines of, oh no, poor little naive neurodivergent Sara did not know August was a big meanie manipulative predator, gosh isn’t it great that we have confirmed that she was enough of a Virginal Ingenue for Simon to forgive her. Sara is neither a Virginal Ingenue who is fully pure of heart nor a Wicked Jezebel who intended to wreck her brother’s life so she could get laid in a fancy dorm room. Sara and August’s relationship was as complex and fascinating as Wilhelm and Simon’s even if the season 2 outcome was more negative by the end, and there are a lot of ways that the two mirror one another. I don’t want Simon to be like “oh I get it now, I can forgive you because you were a manipulated, perfect victim.” That would just feel… icky? And it would flatten what I see as an important connection between the siblings.
For the love of Freya and Epona, I do not want Sara to die. I don’t think she will, I think there was some interview where Omar said that no one was dying, and I hope I’m right about that. That would feel even more icky than the two plot points above, and it might be one of the few things that could kill my love of this series.
One thing that worries me about season 3 is that we really don’t have much indication of what Sara’s arc is going to be yet. There hasn’t been much promo material with Frida compared to the other actors and one news release way back in the day even listed her as “recurring.” Which, as one of Sara’s most steadfast enjoyers on tumblr, freaks me out a little. These promotional details would make sense in a “Sara runs away” scenario or perhaps a “Sara goes back to Marieberg” scenario.
Whatever the case, I hope Sara isn’t sidelined. I don’t think she will be—Lisa clearly has as much love for her as she does for the other characters—but I sometimes worry that if she were sidelined, fans wouldn’t care as long as Wilhelm and Simon got to kiss one another onscreen enough times and go on cute dates. Ultimately, though, I have to tell myself that this worry is all in my head, and that most fans in the fandom want to see Sara have a meaningful arc, and want Simon and Sara to have a chance to reconcile. So now all that’s left to do is wait and see what the new season yields, I guess?
In the meantime, we can always write fic about the two of them reconciling and see how close we get to canon!
#young royals#sara eriksson#simon eriksson#my meta#asks#thank you for asking i hope this answers your question!
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Don't mind me, just turning my lurking TLT blog into a full-time Animorphs meta factory since nobody I know personally has the 25-years-later brainrot I'm currently suffering.
Here's a parallel that fucks me up about Marco, specifically as it relates to his dynamic with Jake:
From Edriss, in Visser:
But I kept seeing a billowing white sail above me; feeling salt spray on my face, stinging my eyes; my hand on the tiller, the pressure of it against my palm; the sense that the boat itself was alive, endowed with life by the need of sky and sea to create some sort of union.
Eva’s husband, my second husband, so to speak, was there, lying back, feet propped, a drink in one hand, a book he wasn’t reading in the other hand. And Marco, of course, climbing dangerously in the rigging, playing superhero.
From Jake, in #1 The Invasion:
So anyway, we crossed the road and headed into the abandoned construction site. ...
Originally it was supposed to be this new shopping center. Now it was just all these half-finished buildings looking like a ghost town. There were huge piles of rusted steel beams; pyramids of giant concrete pipes; little mountains of dirt; deep pits that had filled up with black, muddy water; and a creaking, rusted construction crane that I had climbed once while Marco stayed below and told me I was being an idiot.
(#1: The Invasion)
This is such a stark difference in behavior from Marco, and the whole arc happens before canon even starts, and I feel like it doesn't come up enough in discussions about him? Like, Edriss thinks of Marco as being too sweet & trusting to survive, and the books highlight the shift from that to his ruthless cynicism as a central tragedy of his character, and that is definitely a major part of the Marco equation. But there's also something in the shift from "fearlessly climbing in the rigging" to "calling your best friend an idiot for climbing a crane." Once upon a time, Marco was a fearless adventure-seeker. Then, too young, he learned what it really meant for somebody to die, and it destroyed that part of him.
My personal headcanon is that baby Marco was the kind of kid who could create adventure from wholecloth and regularly picked fights with bullies and probably also teachers on idealistic moral grounds, his miniscule size be damned (specifically, I like to imagine that he was very into the concept of knights and chivalry, although the superhero metaphor is more obvious). Following from this, I think the early years of his friendship with Jake were largely characterized by Marco ringleading and Jake backing him up. Marco was the one driving their adventures, picking their fights, and espousing their philosophical duty, while Jake followed in his wake, delighted to have such a dynamic person to orbit around, priding himself on his role as bodyguard. So their natural dynamic - the one that their friendship was built on, before losing Eva fundamentally changed who Marco is - was the opposite of what we see in the books.
Because Jake isn't a born leader. He doesn't actually want to be in charge. He doesn't have strong personal convictions or goals; he doesn't like making decisions; he's not comfortable weilding power (while Marco does and is). This is why Jake spends so much of the series looking for any excuse at all to abdicate, often calling for group votes or explicitly putting the burden of major decisions on individual teammates (especially Marco - "your mom; your call"). Ironically, this is part of what makes him a good leader: He can see everybody's perspective, he's willing to cede power and trust in expertise not his own, and his entire identity is a meditation on other people's values, helping him find middle grounds that nobody else can see because they're too set on their own paths.
Left to his own devices, though, Jake prefers to find people who he feels good about and then devote himself to them, adopting their worldviews wholesale so that he never has to wrestle with his own. In short, Jake wants a boss. And before the Animorphs, before Cassie, Jake had two people filling that slot: Tom and Marco. And Tom is his brother, so that's a default setting. Marco is the one he chose for himself. Marco's sense for adventure, his idealism, his willingness to pick a fight for a good cause - these are the things that made Jake choose him as a personal North star.
But then Marco lost his mom, and with her went his sense of the world as a just or safe place. Before, he thought of injustice as something temporary that you could defeat with a clever ruse or a brandished sword, and he believed that evil would always inevitably bend before a sufficiently determined good guy. Basically, he believed in the version of the world that exists in superhero stories: Sure, bad things happen, but you'll win in the end so long as you're in the right and you're clever about it.
For a long time, I made up stories about how my mom had survived. Maybe on a desert island or something. But I’m a realistic person, I guess. After a while I accepted it.
(#5: The Predator)
No clever plan could bring Eva back, no matter how many stories he told himself about it, and accepting that meant accepting that anybody - including him - could just... die. Gone forever, for no reason at all. And even if they didn't die, they could disappear from him emotionally, like his father was actively in the process of doing, and no amount of fighting on his part could stop that, either. With Eva's death, Marco's world morphed into a senseless place full of random horrors, and Marco himself went from glory-seeking idealist to terrified realist. He's not telling himself superhero stories anymore; he sees them for the lies that they are.
And then Jake - a kid who specifically chose Marco largely because of Marco's idealism and sense of adventure - has to grapple with Marco's abandonment of those things, but with none of the personal emotional context attached. What does it mean to be eleven years old and watch your fearless leader suffer a complete crumbling of his worldview? And what does it mean for you, personally, when you've built your entire identity around following him, but he doesn't want to lead anymore?
I think it says a lot about Jake that he didn't abandon Marco. He easily could have found another optimistic, adventure-seeking person to follow instead, and indeed I think that's what Marco expected him to do. Afterall, if Marco's dad can more or less abandon him, it logically follows that Jake will probably do it, too. I think Marco's snark is largely a coping and deflection tactic, but on some level it's also an attempt to justify his continued role as Jake's best friend. He knows Jake picked him for the superhero-worshipping kid he used to be, and the only parts of that person he still has any connection to are his humor and his smarts. So he leans into constant clownery to reassure himself that he's still giving Jake the friend that he wants, and therefore Jake won't leave him. It gives him a sense of safety: As long as I'm smart and funny, Jake will have my back.
Jake’s my best friend. But he’s my best friend because I’m me, you know? Because I’m funny and smart and I’d back him up anytime, any place.
I mean, what am I supposed to do? I’m me, Marco, not some touchy-feely, share-your-feelings-with-the-group kind of person. I don’t share feelings, I make people laugh.
(#15 The Escape)
But of course Marco is never in danger of losing Jake at all, because Jake is an absolute loyalist where his people are concerned. You have to fuck up pretty bad for Jake to turn his back on you once you're in his inner circle. So Jake never even considered finding a new best friend; the job belongs to Marco, fullstop. Instead, he started trying to fill the void left by Marco's personality collapse himself, mirroring the traits that Marco used to have back to him, maybe in hope of sparking that part of Marco back to life. Jake idolizes superheroes. He intervenes with bullies. He flaunts danger to climb the construction crane.
But Marco can no longer see the crane as an adventure. He sees it as a death trap that could kill Jake at any second, and he doesn't feel safe until Jake is back on the ground, and he's angry that Jake can't understand that, so he insults him. Both because Marco can't express any feeling straightforwardly so his fear has to come out sideways, but also because Jake is a mirror of who Marco used to be, and on some level Marco hates that naive little kid just because he doesn't get to be him anymore.
By the time we meet them in canon, Marco and Jake are two years into this new dynamic. Jake is occupying the leadership role full time while still modeling himself after the way Marco used to occupy it (with a dash of Tom, because little brother syndrome), occasionally succeeding at drawing out bits of the old Marco in the form of harebrained schemes. Meanwhile, Marco is intensely aware that he is no longer the person Jake wants him to be, and he vascilates wildly between regret/fear (because he might lose Jake if he can't retain some scrap of that person) and contempt (because that version of him was a naive child who believed in superheroes instead of death, like an idiot), and both of these come out in his treatment of Jake. They love each other absolutely, but there is also a disconnect that they don't know how to talk about.
And then the universe is like, lol, let's give these two boys with a specifically superhero-flavored interpersonal power struggle actual superpowers, plus a team to lead in a mandate to save the world.
It's also worth noting that in #50, when Jake has fully given up and is actively trying to abdicate all responsibility for leadership, he tells Cassie that he's only leader because Marco said he was:
“Marco can be in charge,” he said helplessly. Again he pulled his hand away. This time I let him go. “He’s smarter than I am. Or Tobias. Or Ax. Or you. Rachel. Anyone. Anyone but me. You know why I was in charge in the first place, Cassie? Because once upon a time, a long time ago, Marco said I was.”
“Jake, that’s not the whole truth …”
“Well, now my term of office is over,” he continued bitterly. “So how about for once you guys figure things out and tell me what to do.”
(#50 The Ultimate)
But Marco didn't say he was, at least not until after that consensus had already been reached by the others (at least, I can't find it in the pages of the early books - somebody please point me to the passage if it does exist!). If anybody, it was Tobias who waved the fearless leader wand over Jake. But Jake remembers it being Marco, because Jake's whole life is colored by Marco's abdication of leadership in their interpersonal relationship. Everybody else sees Jake as being in charge (and most of them put Rachel second in line), but Jake sees himself as a placeholder for Marco, ready to step aside just as soon as Marco tells him to. But Marco never will.
Anyway, that's my headcanon about what those two lines mean for the Marco/Jake dynamic.
#marco animorphs#marco and jake#animorphs meta#animorphs#what I'm saying is that Jake Berenson is a sub#he's a bratty sub too#Marco come and get your boy#also something something Jake fell for Cassie because she embodies all the sweetness and idealism that he misses in Marco#I ship jakemarco but in postcanon because they gotta defuse their not-it power struggle over who's in charge first#and an ongoing war effort is not conducive to constructive conversations about interpersonal hierarchical command structures#jake berenson
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(so this is the meta post that i rambled in response to an ask about hua cheng’s character archetype (link) it got so off topic from the general archetype description that i removed it and answered the ask separately. but here it is, a somewhat brief unpacking of hua cheng’s character journey! )
when we meet hua cheng, he is already near the end of his character arc. he’s confident, independent, and has a clear sense of self. he is a ghost king, he is a supreme, he has a sense of humour, he’s a bitch, he has friends, he has places he frequents, he has a whole life and identity that he has made for himself. his love for xie lian and desire for xie lian’s approval does not overshadow his individual personality. he does what he likes (most of the time, anyway. he still wants gege to like him hahahah). but as the book unfolds we see the long journey that he has gone on to reach this point.
chronologically, we first meet him as hong’er, a mistreated and abandoned child. he reacts to xie lian’s kindness with utter devotion, beginning the relationship that will define his entire life and growth. when he is older, in despair he turns to that person who showed him kindness and asks for guidance, to which xie lian responds, then live for me. that pretty explicitly establishes that initial dependent relationship, where hua cheng is using xie lian, and his role of worshipping xie lian, as his sole reason for living. but that quickly hits a turning point as xie lian, in his own despair, himself tells hua cheng to give up on his devotion, because he does not see himself as deserving of that worship. in the face of xie lian’s weakness, rather than give up, hua cheng takes the burden on himself instead. his devotion is no longer one that asks for strength. instead, he will be xie lian’s strength. and that is a strong, strong motivator. he is able to achieve the impossible, over and over, because of his conviction to becoming stronger, to protect dianxia.
but he spends a significant chunk of time seeing himself as nothing but that strength. he is nothing outside of xie lian, not even a name. but his time at xie lian’s side as wuming gives him more perspective on his god — he is more than just a tool to xie lian. even at his lowest point, xie lian treats wuming as a person, someone deserving of dignity, respect, kindness. xie lian constantly tries to protect him, even as wuming willingly offer himself as a tool to aid whatever xie lian desires. so i see that as kick starting wuming’s journey to becoming hua cheng. and then he has another 700 years to do that.
so hua cheng, as we finally meet him, is his final form after all that growth. he has a name, he has a face, he has a life, a purpose, and a legacy. all those things are inspired by xie lian, yes, but they are all things that hua cheng has built for himself. before he meets xie lian again he is a full person with a full, full life. he could have be separated from xie lian the rest of his life and continued to live and thrive as he had been. him falling in love with xie lian, really, is just a lucky chance, because it has almost nothing to do with his devotion and everything to do with who he is as a person. xie lian doesn’t fall in love with his most devoted believer, he falls in love with hua cheng, the person that his devotion helped him survive to become. he falls in love because hua cheng is bitchy, funny, kind, vicious, petty, steadfast, and as much of a disaster as he is, and they have a blast when they’re together. and none of that would have been possible if hua cheng hadn’t come all the way to the end of his character arc.
#tgcf#tgcf meta#hua cheng#hua cheng meta#xie lian#hualian#meta stuff#my hyperfixation demon#yeah i REALLY need to do a hua cheng centric reread#i need to flesh out the wuming part a lot#this is just off the top of my head#sighs. enjoy reading everyone!!
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[Pictured: A screenshot of a post from Wilbur Soot’s reddit account, dating back to July of 2021, which reads:]
“Revivedbur is used to being forgotten. From his perspective, Wilbur was suffering from intense paranoia and delusions. When Wilbur died no-one even so much as gave him a grave. Wilbur was suffering and no-one even looked at him or tried to help him. What he did was most heinous and deserving of his fate but when he died he was simply made into a justification for other people to do more hateful things. A scapegoat for further villains to show their colours
"It’s fine. I can hurt other people, I’m angry that Wilbur was evil.” This speaks more of them than of Wilbur in his eyes.
Revivedbur has noticed this.”
[End transcription]
I want to look back at this, because I think it’s Extremely relevant in what just happened between wilbur and fundy (with wilbur seeing himself in fundy, not just because of his downspiral and isolation but in that sense of abandonment in his time of need, and the pure tragedy of their experiences being directly related to each other)
not just because it reaches into the wider pathos of the entirety of l’manberg and the very core of a struggle an entire community has been working through in a way that has been at once universal and completely silent (both in the sense that people who are struggling from a loss of a bond with Each Other remain isolated despite all wanting what they used to have, And in the sense that it’s been largely painted over and ignored by people on the outside. whether that be other members of the server or the fanbase), which when addressed head on will rip the veil away from that struggle and present it honestly and earnestly and in a way that can’t be ignored anymore
but it Also goes a long way to explain the weirdness of tommy’s role in the latter half of wilbur’s arc.
because it’s not just that wilbur put such a heavy emphasis on tommy’s importance and presence in his life only to pull away (which is something that could be and arguably Has Been explained), but because tommy has consistently Been A Presence in wilbur’s life anyways. and not in that tommy is trying to force his way in, but that he’s been kept at arms length but No Farther Away.
he’s a near Consistent presence, and has been set up both in canon and meta-textually as an extremely important next step for wilbur (and probably an end for this arc as a whole) while still being Intentionally Pushed Out Of all of the major steps that wilbur is trying to take right now.
which again, wouldn’t be strange in concept (there’s no reason why tommy would need to be there when wilbur was confronting tubbo or fundy, he has relationships with those people outside of tommy that can and should be addressed on their own), but that becomes Really Apparent not just in how these seeds are being laid throughout wilbur’s streams but also in the storybeats where tommy Is There.
tommy’s presence in hitting on 16 wasn’t necessary to the Plot contained within the story, but Very Carefully laid out that tommy Is with wilbur, that he Stayed with wilbur, and that wilbur very much so wants him to be there with him. we can see how tommy is clumsily trying to reach out to wilbur while wilbur simultaneously pushes him away and desperately clings to him in a, frankly, really compelling portrayal of their relationship at the time.
and this is interesting, because tommy has no idea that the events of the story even happened. wilbur has framed tommy as one of the most important people to him, someone that he Needs in his life, to the point that he can’t Leave tommy even when he knows (or at least feels) that he needs to pull away from him. and so there’s Both this closeness and this Distance. where tommy is There, but he’s not allowed to Know. he isn’t allowed to be an actual presence in wilbur’s life that’s Able to impact him.
and this continues in the stream with techno. where tommy is There, he’s very Casually and Naturally a part of wilbur’s life, but he isn’t allowed to be Involved.
and this is interesting as well because this, the tubbo stream that followed, and even the fundy stream all have moments that either imply or set up that confrontation or reconciliation between them.
and I think it goes back to this. back to this feeling that wilbur desperately needed help and was abandoned. back to this feeling that his death didn’t Matter to anyone, except for where it could be twisted into a justification for something awful, something that hurt more people and ruined whatever legacy he could’ve had even further (ruined the memory the people important to him had of him even further).
and I consider this twofold:
1: while this feeling of Abandonment is near universal among l’manberg members, tommy more than anyone is poised to really Understand wilbur once they’re at a point where they can be open and honest with each other.
because what it comes down to is that both wilbur and tommy have experienced other people Moving On. tommy’s stay in the afterlife was Much Much shorter than wilbur’s, but his arc following his death was Defined by this disconnect and insecurity. not just in his relationships (which it had a profound impact on his relationship with ranboo and tubbo), but on his place As A Living Person at all.
he still felt dead. he still felt like the world had moved on without him and he didn’t have a place in it anymore.
and for Both of them these insecurities are reinforced and partially stem from trauma that is frankly Shockingly relevant to each other.
Both of them watched their friends, watched l’manberg, move on without them following their exile. Both of them had been convinced (through external and internal means) that everyone they’d loved had been better off without them because They were inherently bad unlovable people. wilbur a villain that causes everything wrong with the world and tommy a selfish destructive child that acts as a leech for everyone that tries to support them.
and this fact crushed them, particularly because of that isolation, because they weren’t suffering where other people were allowed to see or understand. and both of them had these feelings amplified by a build up of trauma and victimization over the course of their arcs that exploded into suicide attempts. but where wilbur’s had been in a moment of intense high pressure with everyone’s eyes on him, pushing him over the edge, tommy had been alone in the aftermath and given the time to come to a realization about the unfairness of his situation and save himself.
tommy was able to recognize, even in some small amount, that he wasn’t the problem while wilbur had been lost in his black and white thinking. and that’s defined the ways their arcs have progressed and the challenges they’ve faced following their choices to get better and to be better.
and it is Both the ways that their experiences are so painfully similar And the ways that they differ that could lead to them having a profound impact on each other as they both struggle to find meaning and worth and meaningful Stable human connections in their lives no matter how hard they try.
2: while their isolation during their trauma was very much so real and incredibly painful, tommy and wilbur had both been there for each other while they were spiraling as much as they could be, and this matters.
they were Also profoundly impacted by the ways that they weren’t able to be there for each other, ways that they feel like they were failed even when those feelings aren’t completely rational, and this also matters.
neither of them have the full context to understand the other’s suffering or why they Would feel abandoned when they feel that they were the one left go of, But This Is A Completely Reasonable Obstacle For Them To Overcome With Honest Communication, and this Also matters.
these are characters who have a profound impact on each other even when they’re separated, Especially when they’re separated, who at the same time are insecure in those relationships and in that necessity.
this is both the inherent problem that has kept their relationship complicated and tense And what’s going to open their relationship up to growth and healing when the time is right.
and a big part of that is going to be understanding each other’s suffering and how that impacted their capacity to connect with and process each other.
logsted is the obvious chekov’s gun. wilbur’s current understanding of dream being juxtaposed by it becoming clearer and clearer that he Doesn’t know anything that dream actually Did while wilbur was gone, given more and more tension as we see wilbur react so Strongly to what he Does know happened.
(his anger at doomsday and how he feels like he was used as a scapegoat for it, him telling tommy that he’d have disemboweled dream for what he did to him despite the fact that he Didn’t know what happened during exile. and how these two things will Intersect when he eventually learns the truth, with wilbur’s death leaving the people that he cared about More vulnerable to dream and how he took advantage of that.)
but I Also think that tommy being Let In, being able to Understand wilbur’s feelings enough to put context behind his actions will be incredibly important for the both of them. because wilbur Desperately wants to be understood and accepted for what he is and tommy Desperately wants that security of being able to Understand, to not be an outsider to his relationships that just has to accept whatever happens at face value.
that’s not to say that I think tommy and wilbur are meant to handle each other’s problems and growth as people Alone, but rather that I fully believe that this shared understanding between each other is something that will be Incredibly good for the both of them, but it has to wait until they’re at a point where they’d be Receptive To It as characters.
tommy didn’t accept that he needed to well and truly Open up to get better until after his death, until he was finally backed into a corner so hard that he realized he Had to get better and that what he was doing before wasn’t working. he recognized that he Needed help and he Needed to reach out and he Needed to open up.
and wilbur is going through that right now. not just in having the stakes slowly raise higher and higher, clearly building up to what’s going to be a blow out. but in him slowly realizing the impact that he truly had on people. realizing that he’s Wanted through the pain that his absence caused. recognizing that isolating himself further is only going to hurt people More because they care about and love him.
he’s going to need that point of contact when he makes that realization, someone who can meet him where he is and Understand him. and I think tommy is poised to be that person for him, just like he’s poised to be that person for Tommy.
#dream smp#wilbur soot#tommyinnit#meta#long post#I feel like this is barely coherent#but I Felt it while writing it so you're all getting it anyways#bone apple teeth
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Hello There.
this is kinda weird and meta and i cannot tell if it’s written coherently so plz just hear me out
so yk how J*R admitted that, when she was writing OOTP at the same time as the first movie was being made, she made a lot of the changes/revelations we see for severus’ character bc she liked alan rickman’s portrayal so much? her only valid opinion
prior to that it is much easier to see the relationship between james/the marauders and severus as ‘slytherin vs gryffindor antagonistic’
(the prank (PoA) is imo played off more as ‘sirius was in the wrong by organising it, james did better by following severus and getting him out of there’ without input from OOTP)
anyway, this is all to say that pre-OOTP james and post-OOTP james feel like very different characters, bc one is very much good-guy-in-the-making and the other is the worst of the worst, and i think it can be brought back to J*R’s inability to write interesting slyth vs gryff rivalries without resorting to bullying and harassment from one party (the way she writes slytherins makes me want to smash my head against walls)
what do you think? bc this is coming from a kinda biased marauders stan, pro-james perspective, even though i dont hate young!sev in the slightest
i feel like a lot of my issues with this whole thing can be summed up by The TERF Bitch Can’t Write, And Now We Suffer Because Of It
I’ve heard of that claim before, and iirc I’ve seen a source of her saying that a long time ago, but could you tell where cause I’d love to confirm this? 😭 She had already had Snape’s arc planned out because during the earlier films Alan wanted to quit his role because playing Evil Greasy Potions Master might get him type-casted (since he’s played villains before) and he didn’t want that, so Rowling decided to tell him about the grandiose reveal in DH, which is what made him stay.
what do you think? bc this is coming from a kinda biased marauders stan, pro-james perspective, even though i dont hate young!sev in the slightest
I actually think that was the point. In the earlier books we’re led to believe that Snape had no good reason for hating Harry’s dad and only resented James (and Harry) because he was a popular, loved Gryffindor and a talented Quidditch player. It was a bit of a red herring, and in PoA when Sirius and Remus are introduced we’re told about the prank and since Harry already hates Snape, obviously loves his father, and wants to know more info about his parents because he now knows two people who were the closest of friends with them, he assumes Sirius is right and evil Sneep Snoop is wrong and was just being petty as per usual. So for the first five books the readers are like “yo James is the perfect awesome guy and Snape is the jealous bad one,” which is increased when we remember James is a Gryffindor and Severus was a Slytherin, we sort of get the same image as Harry and Draco. It’s an extremely black-and-white image, the dawning realisation that it might not be just a simple rivalry/jealously-issue is what makes SWM in the 5th book so jaw-dropping to all of us, because we actually realise that it wasn’t the whole story. “Snape was right all along” is a super scary realisation for Harry, especially since it makes him completely rethink the image of his father that’s been painted for him by basically everyone around him, everyone except the one character Harry despises most of all.
This isn’t to say JKR doesn’t make shit decisions in writing, I 100000% get what you’re saying, but I think this was deliberately written that way so it can to be a big build-up to the plot twist. (Doesn’t make it very well-written, but it was still her intention ig.) and tbh the fact that we have so many unanswered questions/concerns about the plot holes/arcs/writing/etc and have to fill it in with the most plausible assumptions really goes to show how overrated JKR’s writing is and how her series has been enriched mostly by its fandom.
Also dw you’ve gotten your point across very well, I always get concerned with my writing because I’m worried it just sounds like a pile of unorganised bullshit 💀
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More Reasons to Drop Those Eyes
Krile: Even should you succeed in excising the eyes from the dragoon's mail, we have no way of knowing if your friend's soul would survive so violent a separation. And that is to say nothing of the possibility that his would-be savior might become Nidhogg's next host.
I've ranted before about the fandom's negative perception of Aymeric's command to throw Nidhogg's Eyes off the bridge into the roiling maelstrom of ice and wind below the Steps of Faith. I've noted before there's a difference in the knowledge characters have in universe as vehicles of the story (not a roleplay thing, that's up to the player, or not) versus us, the players, comfortably watching said story play out and recognizing tropes while also having meta knowledge the characters do not.
To see some changes in the story in context thanks to duty support updates in 6.3, I replayed through the Dragonsong War patches of Heavensward, 3.1 through 3.3. At the very start of 3.3, Revenge of the Horde, Y'shtola, Krile, Alphinaud, and the WoL have a conversation in the Forgotten Knight about the mages' findings and concerns when it comes to possibly saving Estinien--or not--based on what they saw when Nidhogg attacked Vidofnir.
And here in this short paragraph we see some of those main concerns brought up: Can the Eyes be removed from Estinien? What danger does it pose to the next person who grabs the Eyes?
Questions no one in the story knows the answer to as they share and discuss and worry, finally leading to "Throw them into the abyss!" due to that.
Again, these were definitely things the writers considered when making the characters react with their knowledge and perspectives and personalities within the story. We as players are along for the ride, and even our WoLs have their specific roles to play as characters in the specific plotlines, as an MMO, by default, is on rails more than other game genres.
Anyway, I got to this scene again and was all "oh yeah" regarding the earlier posts. There's reasons to go back, either in replay with an alt or using New Game+, to see the story play out again. There's a LOT to remember, and it all builds on itself, key scenes in one patch affecting others down the road.
#Final Fantasy XIV#Heavensward#Revenge of the Hoorde#patch 3.3#Eyes of Nidhogg#Krile Baldesion#Aymeric de Borel#Final Steps of Faith#IC vs OOC#Lyn Meta#Estinien Varlineau
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I'm not denying the misogyny in earlier seasons but I also just rewatched s1-5 and I can't recall a woman ever turning Dean down and him turning around and calling them a bitch. Yeah he uses that word too often but tbh does he actually call women it that often?? I seem to recall him just using it generally, which makes a huge difference. Still not great but still big difference.
Like yeah I was annoyed and uncomf with how often he hit on women but they usually weren't super drawn out scenes and his actions towards women who weren't written just to be eye candy by ACTUAL misogynistic writers, he treated as equally as everyone else.
There's absolutely no denying his behavior s1 (arguably up until he goes to hell) teeters that line, but I feel like those early seasons have been remembered as way more gross and extreme than they actually are... But tbh what's new about how people view Dean's character and how's he conflated into things he's not
Hi! I saw your ask earlier but then got caught up with work things and since then i've also posted this, which analyzes the instances of dean using the word "bitch" throughout s1 and the contexts in which its used, which like you said is mostly exclusively in general phrases, most commonly his "catch phrase" son of a bitch.
As for the flirting, like you said a lot of his behavior varies depending on the writer. And in a show like this where there's been so many different writers it's something to take into consideration when analyzing a character's actions. I tend to focus on which behaviors are most consistent throughout. There are some things here or there that just are completely ooc with past consistent behaviors and are indicative of like, the writer's own misogyny creeping in rather than consistent with Dean's own behaviors and I think that's something important to take note of when doing character analyses and "studies." Like the one that always jumps out to me that is just SO inconsistent with Dean's character is in 4x13 After School Special where Dean says three of the high school cheerleaders are "legal." All of Dean's interactions with young people / teenagers both before this and after shows him in clearly a mentor role or respectful and understanding toward them. I'm think especially of his interactions toward Claire and Krissy. Or in the fanficiton episode. He doesn't treat any of those girls as anything other than what they are: kids. So that instance in 4x13 just stands out as massively ooc and it's an episode written by Dabb who, imo, does not get Dean + Kids at all. But anyways, that's a whole other thing lmao.
But yeah, I really feel like a lot of people could do with a rewatch. Many just have this hazy memory of Dean flirting and checking women out in the early seasons and have exaggerated those moments into a whole other character. I think those early seasons where definitely a product of their time. Early 2000s television was often very sexist and had its problems. And some of that is reflected on how Dean's character was written and portrayed. But it's not nearly as bad as many make it out to be. And from a meta / analysis perspective I view a lot of those moments as reflecting the struggle and conflict between Dean's overcompensating masculine persona and his real self he's trying to hide.
#sorry for writing essays lmao all of this is just so fun and interesting to discuss for me#vics spn rewatch#replies#dean studies#mymeta
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was it intentional making dave and kanayas changes reflect the names of the rejected/lost endgame ships? Dave is now davecat (ala davekat) as he loses karkat in the fallout of all this, and kanaya becomes Mary, the remaining half of Rosemary now that rose has died. was this intentional? And, further, assuming this wont be expounded on later in the fic due to its entirely meta nature, how do you feel the changes reflect their characters, with Dave INCORPORATING the phonetic match of davekat, and kanaya Explicitly Removing the rose? Or is all this just nonsense?
the davecat/davekat pun is intentional, and kanaya choosing "mary" out of rosemary is also intentional, but i hadn't actually thought much about how they mirror each other in their relationship to their relationships! dave doesn't think of himself as catdave of course, but the presence of that pun in the reader's mind certainly helps reinforce the fact that davekat didn't explicitly *break up.* actually you know what i'm gonna go on an extended tear about some dualism because i want to, regardless of how on topic it is
i've said before that i wanted godfeels kanaya in 3.2 onwards to echo kanaya in homestuck^2. in hs2, her divorce fever manifests through the adoption of a nun's attire and a distant longing for her wife. kind of a "when will my beloved return from the war" type thing.
i remember folks having a problem with that interpretation of kanaya being passive in a ooc way? but i think it's notable we never got far enough to see her in action, and let's remember that she's still ON the ship headed to deltritus, to rescue rose and kick dirk's ass. so you know. it's hard not to be passive when you're stuck on a ship waiting to arrive at plot
(which is a criticism of hs2 i appreciate, even if i don't entirely agree for a number of reasons we definitely don't have time for)
so anyway, the thing about hs2 kanaya is that her wife disappeared without talking to her. it's not just that she's separated from her wife, fundamentally there's a betrayal involved-- which the characters (and thus the readers) sublimate into anger at dirk for having manipulated and controlled rose into going down that path in the epilogues... but i think it's genuinely up for debate whether or not rose was, in fact, altogether 100% mind-controlled by dirk. is she really under his thrall, or is she playing into the role because it's better than dying of existential migraine? or because she's bored of her life on earth c and wants to spice things up in the bedroom with reaaaaaaaaaally extended foreplay? rose has always been a melodramatic bitch after all, that's what everyone forgets loves about her!
[relitigating long dead fandom discourse voice] just because rosemary means a lot to you as Queer Representation doesn't change the fact that gay people also suck! like they literally got married at age 16, have some fucking perspective
of course to my mind it's even an open question whether rosemary divorce fever in hs2 was straight up an agreed-upon longform romantic roleplay. i mean what better way to larp your femknight in shining nunarmor ravishing you romantically from the clutches of the weeaboo dragon fantasy than Literally Making It Happen In Real Life? you see i liked hs2 precisely because it had an ambiguity of purpose in its characters that lent itself to all sorts of juicy interpretations. yeah they probably plodded around in that a bit too long, but let's not pretend that the fandom ever approached hs2 with even a sliver of patience or good faith to see its ideas through to the end
u h h h h h h h wait what the fuck was i
so anyway mary in godfeels is similarly betrayed, but in a very different way. the question of why rose didn't bother letting kanaya in on any of the things she knew is wrapped tight in barbed wire. contemplating it is an unavoidable act of self-harm. it's a question that can't be answered, but will linger forever. mary has to wonder if killing her wife was truly necessary, if there was another option, if rose's visions were truly infallible... or if rose just couldn't think of a better way to end things between them. those are just a few of the many questions that can haunt you when a loved one dies unexpectedly
so mary is a post-rose kanaya who has to choose between obsessing over the loss of her wife or moving on into a completely new existence. now then, on the flipside of that you've got dave, who doesn't have that same dividing line between his First Real Relationship and the rest of his life. he says to himself "karkat will wait for me," and so presumably intends to find his way back to earth c sooner or later. but he also has to live in the present, deal with his own shit, continuing to grow and change in unknowable ways. so where mary has to accept that it's okay to become a person her wife would not recognize, dave has to confront whether he can live with himself if he becomes someone that karkat won't recognize. he has to interrogate whether or not his boyfriend's unconditional love will remain unconditional as the two of them grow and change apart from one another.
so yeah, there's some juicy dramatic resonance in the davecat & mary puns. which, you know, will almost certainly have no intersection with june's situation or dana's situation or lenore's situation hahaha
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🔥 Opinion on people who refuse to understand Cheavy’s character and people’s own interpretation of him because he killed Medic?
Like people who comment “But he killed medic!” on your posts? (That’s a really big problem for me whenever I draw him)
You're gonna have to be more specific.
Cheavy IS a villain the comics. He just is. He's a very one-note villain that's meant to call back to all the villains we used to love as kids. Firelord Ozai, Lord Garmadon, Aku, most of Disney's Renaissance lineup. And I don't say this with any malice. I fucking love how much of a shitter he is. And that's the point of it. Hell, that's the point of most well-written villains. They're meant to invoke a feeling of "kicking your ass is going to be FUN!" in the viewer.
He's a fun character precisely because of how much of a piece of shit he is. He's loud, angry, brutish, and only took Gray Mann's mission because he and his team would be paid a hefty sum. He - and by extension, the entire TFC team - are exactly what they need to be to oppose the RED's.
This is actually why Medic was placed with them from a meta perspective. He's there so the audience can get a first-hand look at how the TFC team contrasts with the RED's. And I don't blame anyone who wants to kick the TFC mercs down the stairs for what they did.
Why? Simple. Audiences are biased by nature and the quickest way to make them hate a particular character is to have that character kick the fandom's favorite person. Medic WAS that person, and the writers used this to great effect. We all like Medic, therefore having Cheavy treat him badly is a very effective way to get the audience on Medic's side. It's Writing 101.
It's what I'm doing with the Disciples in TBTF. You guys like Cmedic (or at least you're supposed to), therefore its very easy for me to get you on his side when someone else treats him poorly.
This isn't a misread of Cheavy's character. This IS his character.
Sure, in a realistic sense? Cheavy really isn't that much worse than any of the other mercs. His crimes are on par with Soldier and I personally take advantage of that in TBTF as the basis for a redemption arc (with liberal amounts of violence because Cheavy is still a shitter and ought to be whacked with a broom).
The only exception to this would be Cscout and Csoldier. But the reason we love to hate Cheavy is because he's cast in the role of villain. The writers are taking advantage of the fact that we LOVE the main team in order to establish who the villains are and who we should hate. If the team likes someone (Pauling, Hale, etc), then WE like them. If the team doesn't like someone (TFC mercs, Administrator, etc), then WE don't like them.
TF2 is interesting in that the bar for morality is set very low from the start. Medic is a horrible person, but we love him. Cheavy is a horrible person, but we want to yeet him out a window. This is because TF2's characters are very strong and its banking on the audience getting attached to the main team. And when you have an emotional attachment to, say, Medic? Yeah, you're not gonna like someone treating him badly.
And y'know what? That's damn good writing. It's a testament to just how well the mercs are written that the writers can get us on board with anything if the mercs are on board with it.
Anyways, this has been How To Write For Beginners. Please take these lessons to heart. Hopefully this will help people with media literacy and critical analysis.
#anonymous#team fortress 2#hot take#this was supposed to be short but I decided to make an essay on how villains work#and how audiences are naturally biased in favor of protagonists
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