#fluidphobia in the loki series | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

pinktwingirl · 1 year

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Uh yeah so if she’s not gender-fluid then neither is Loki, because they’re literally the same person. Thanks for clearing that up, Marvel. Keep digging that grave deeper 🙄

#loki #loki series #loki series negativity #sylvie laufeydottir #anti sylvie #anti michael waldron #tw: fluidphobia #fluidphobia #marvel #mcu #mcu criticism #disney plus #gender fluid #genderfluid loki #genderfluidity

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musclesandhammering · 10 months

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Hard pills to swallow: The only reason they even gave us a vague one-sentence bi confirmation was cause they already knew they were gonna make it up to straight people by having loki randomly fall in love with the only female version of himself and then base the entire series around it.

#queerbaiting #for real this time #and I don’t mean l*kius #I’m meant when it comes to #bi representation #and especially #genderfluid loki #anti loki series #loki series criticism #anti sylvie #antisylki #anti sylki #fluidphobia #biphobia #heteronormativity

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youlackconviction · 2 years

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had some fun on twitter today lol. a series stan came @ me with some of the above so i decided to compile them and other common genuine responses that i’ve seen to LOKI-series-critical meta and create a fun little game for y’all.

if you want to use this board go ahead, i’d appreciate a credit back this blog or my twitter @ulackconviction if you do use it, so i can follow your threads myself. just save the pic, mark which responses you’ve received from fans of the LOKI series, and reblog with your edited bingo card.

below i the cut will quote each one and my own response to each “argument”.

if you hate sylki then you are biphobic - no, i hate sylki for many reasons but alleged bisexuality is not one. how about, the toxic abuse dynamic sylvie sets up towards LOKI? let’s start there.

you don’t want your uwu emo boy LOKI to heal - incorrect. i’d love for him to finally get a chance to be heard and acknowledged, genuinely cared for and shown how to let go of his unresolved trauma. but that would require a compassionate person talking about it and showing it, none of which the series did.

it’s not incest they don’t have the same parents - they literally have the same father: laufey of jotunnheim.

it’s not self-cest that’s a made-up thing - well. hard to say really isn’t it? since the showrunners have both defined sylvie as “a LOKI” and as “not a LOKI” in the same breath. obviously it’s a fantasy concept, but people will have their opinions about that either way.

why don’t y’all just move on and shut up? - rude. why should we? LOKI is important to us and the series is hurtful and disappointing, and we will shut up when we feel like it. maybe never. cry about it.

if you don’t like it then don’t watch it - we like LOKI tho. and that’s who we were promised. that’s why we watched it. the damage is done.

y’all are just mad that lokius is not canon - lmao if there’s one thing to not be mad about in this shitshow, that would be it. mobius is just as toxic and abusive to LOKI as sylvie is, so it’s just as well.

LOKI is just a selfish villain - citations needed thanks. i’ll wait. not even the series managed to portray him that way so... good luck.

sylvie is not LOKI she’s her own person - ok... if she’s not LOKI why is she dressed like him? why does everyone in the series call her the superior LOKI variant? why was LOKI’s help enlisted in the first place to capture her? why does she say “we are the same person” to him?

sylvie is LOKI so genderfluid rep is on screen every time she is - wait what? she is LOKI now? hang on... i think i have whiplash. and more questions. also, an individual presenting and identifying consistently as a single binary gender throughout their entire appearance does not constitute genderfluidity representation.

mobius did not torture LOKI it was therapy - therapy. right. so physical violence, threats of further violence/death, repetitive physical brutality for the purposes of “softening up” the candidate (yes that can also be defined as torture), intimidation, and misrepresenting the truth for manipulative purposes (you killed your mother) is therapeutic. got it.

fluidphobia is not a real thing - genderfluid folks would disagree. let’s ask them?

go touch grass - one of my favourites, gotta say. for all you know i’m typing this on my phone while laying in a hay paddock lol.

misogynist, you obviously just hate women - again. the reasons i can’t stand sylvie are many and varied, and none of them have anything to do with her biology or gender. disliking one (1) woman because of her actions and personality is not logical grounds for such an accusation.

well tom loves the series so... - uh, good for him? i think tom loves tennis too... doesn’t mean i have to enjoy it, nor i suspect would he insist that it’s unreasonable for me not to do so. my brain is actually separated from tom’s by the entire molten core of a planet, so i can actually think my own thoughts about things.

LOKI is out of character in the series because he learned self love - okay so he learned self-love the instant he fell from the sky above that mongolian settlement? because that’s the moment when he ceased to resemble MCU LOKI in any way, shape, or form. hair, skin colour, mannerisms, personality, vocabulary, physical strength, intelligence, fighting ability, grace, wit, charm. wow. incredible. who knew it would be so easy? and who knew self-love would look so shitty?

LOKI is not out of character in the series compared to the films - um... actually he is, and it can easily be demonstrated with simple side-by-side comparisons of appearance, posture and body language, abilities, and speech patterns. see above.

LOKI is out of character in all the movies and now we see his real self - this is such incredible nonsense - it’s impossible for a character to be out of character in their seminal appearance(s). thor 2011 established LOKI’s character. this claim is right up there with “LOKI acts differently from the movies when he’s off camera.” um... what? hun, this is a movie. there is ONLY on-camera. there IS nothing else. are you confusing BTS footage of tom with LOKI?

series antis have no friends - one in a range of irrelevant and unsubstantiated personal attacks that series fans like to sprinkle into their arguments as if it somehow strengthens them, rather than revealing them to be three children in a trench coat hurling insults.

everything you think about LOKI is just a headcanon - no... the stuff that i know about him was told to me by the films, and by the writers and directors of the films, and by tom back when he was first engaged for the role. all of it is coherent and consistent. and that’s what i think about LOKI.

i’m not going to read/watch that! but you are wrong - incredible powers of deduction: to refuse to even engage with a piece of media or information and yet claim to know everything it contains, and be able to judge its accuracy. truly amazing.

LOKI isn’t going to fuck you - again, more absolute gold from a person who has literally run out of rebuttals. when you consider the barriers to such a liaison... crossing the boundaries of reality no less... lol imagine if this is how political debates were conducted in parliament or the senate. “the president/senator/prime minister/queen isn’t going to fuck you, you know!” lmaoooo.

LOKI is a narcissist to fall in love with himself - look up NPD, and then read this again. also, LOKI actually hates himself and goes along with others’ ridicule of him because his self-worth is literally in the gutter. he only likes sylvie because he describes her as being nothing like himself. he has no idea that he has any value.

your anti opinions are taking away my enjoyment - ok so... don’t read them? block me or mute me or whatever, and get on with your life? it’s not like you have any kind of past attachment to me like series-antis do with LOKI?

i never liked LOKI before the series anyhow - i mean that’s fine. but don’t even start trying to tell people who actually do know and love the original character, ANYTHING at all about him. don’t even start.

sylvie’s trauma is worse than LOKI’s - how do we even know? and why is that even relevant? how do you judge what damage a person has incurred by comparing it to some other different person with different experiences? fuck off with your trauma olympics. but since you made it a competition: LOKI wins. i care about him, i don’t care about sylvie. therefore his pain and opportunity for healing will always be more important to me. die mad about it.

even if the series hurt minorities, how many people even is that, tho - literally a remark one of my friends received when defending genderfluid folks on her blog. so apparently according to series fans, you actually can put a number on how much real-world suffering is okay for the sake of entertainment.

sylvie is not a narcissist to fall in love with herself - interesting, since in the show LOKI was explicitly labelled one for this exact reason. an “incredible seismic narcissist”, in fact. there wouldn’t be a serious double standard in play at all, would there?

no one cares what you think - well i have evidence to the contrary: both from people who agree with me letting me know; and from those who don’t being unable to resist coming at me and berating me for it. including the person who said this, ironically.

you just hate sylki cos you want to fuck your siblings - another incredible take by a series fan defending the canon ship. i really can’t follow their line of argument here... it’s unclear what message they want me to walk away with. surely if i hated the ship for incest reasons it would be because i DON’T want to fuck my siblings? (for the record, i do not). so that was a confusing one, but it was a real response, so it got included.

#in defense of loki #fandom wank #series stans really be like

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iamnmbr3 · 1 year

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How is the loki tv series sexist?

I'd start with these 3 posts from the excellent compendium compiled by @nikkoliferous

Sexism, Fluidphobia and Transphobia In Episode 5

Sylvie And The Problem With “Strong Female Characters”

Misandry, Toxic Masculinity and Queerphobia in The Loki Series

#asks #loki tv series #loki show #loki tv show #loki tv #loki series #loki 2021 #MCU #Marvel #Disney

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arklayraven · 1 year

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This stuff happening with Anne from Paralive, reminds me of the fluidphobia and erasure of Loki's genderfluidity in the series.

I hate it.

#;little raven speaks #When the Paralive anime series comes out. imma make so many enby Anne edits just out of spite. lol

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bigbazoxngas · 3 years

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If im called a misogynist for disliking Sylvie one more time i'm gonna lose. It.

Yeah, so sexist of me to hate that there were sexist tropes used for Sylvie, her being in the show at all was not only transphobic but homophobic as well, the white feminism, the way shes a fusion of three comic characters, the lack of depth, the inconsistencies in her backstory, the victim blaming that's surrounded Sylvie's character and the way the show runners and actors have talked about her, the sheer LACK of knowledge about trauma by the show runners at all, I could go on. 😍😍😍

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emptymasks · 3 years

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Fluidphobia and transphobia in episode 5 of Loki

16 minutes in. “Have any of you ever met a woman variant of us?” “No, never.” “Sounds terrifying.” I don’t even have words for how much that made me want to cry. That’s so unbelievably stupidly fluidphobic. Loki is also a woman, Loki is genderfluid, it’s likely all Loki variants are. So by saying that Loki has never seen himself as a woman is incorrect, it sounding ‘terrifying’ is beyond upsetting, and all of it is fluidphobic. (And also one of the variants with President Loki is played by a female actor anyway so??)

This is disgusting. It’s pure fludphobia. And if this was homophobia or transphobia you all would be talking way more about it. Posts talking against it would be getting more notice. The media would be talking about it. The Marvel team would have to address it. But no one cares enough about genderfluid voices.

And they had the audacity to say this:

It would have been better if they’d just not made MCU Loki genderfluid. I can’t believe I’m saying that. But the fact that they had the audacity to boast about how great they were for doing it, and then gave us fluidphobic representation. Not no representation, bad representation. I’d rather no representation that bad representation. At least no representation can’t create new slurs used against genderfluid people. No representation can’t create misunderstandings about how genderfluid have to shape-shift to be a different gender, how they’re a different person when they’re a different gender. No representation wouldn’t have caused the surge in fluidphobia in the fandom. Just yesterday a tweet was going around and getting popular saying Sylvie can’t be genderfluid because her name is ‘Laufeydottir’... Even though Loki’s is ‘Laufeyson’ and he’s genderfluid you know almost like someone can change what their assgined-at-birth gender is.

And it goes beyond fluidphobia into pure transphobia when you see “sex: fluid”. Parts of the fandom are now saying “sexfluid” to refer to genderfluid people. It’s not only now basically become a slur, but think about the implications. ‘Sexfluid’ means someone must change their genitalia when they’re identifying as another gender. That’s fluidphobic because of course real genderfluid people can’t shapeshift. However, it’s also transphobic because it implies that in order to be a woman Loki must have a vulva, meaning that one needs a vulva in order to be a woman, meaning that they’re implying trans women without vulva’s aren’t really women. That’s a transmed belief, a transphobic belief. You could look at that and say I’m reaching, or that I’m reading too much into it. But sex and gender don’t mean the same thing and this is how fans are using the word, this is what viewers of the show think the words means.

I’m not talking about the fans on here, or even the fans on Twitter, I’m talking about the majority of Marvel viewers. Because the majority aren’t part of fandom communities, aren’t part of LGBT+ communities, they don’t go on social media to look at what people are saying about the show, and all they know about genderfluidity is what they see in this show. And even then, just search “Loki female self” on Twitter and there are hundreds of people calling Sylvie that. The main stream media keep calling Sylvie “Lady Loki’”in their articles. ScreenRant keeps doing it, official Loki merch on Gamestop is doing it.

I’m not sorry if me talking about this and complaining is ruining your experience of watching the show, that just means before you were ignorant to the fluidphobia in the series. I’m not saying the show should be cancelled, I’m not saying you can’t watch it or you can’t enjoy watching it because I’m still watching it, I’m still finding moments I enjoy in it. You can be critical of something and still watch and enjoy it.

EDIT: you know what? “that’s terrifying” is also kinda fucking sexist

#loki discourse #loki #loki series #loki series spoilers #lokiedit #lokiseriesedit #fluidphobia #genderfluid #mytext #500

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wandatvvision · 3 years

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But what is the loki series if not fluidphobia and heteronormativity persevering

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alwida10 · 2 years

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Many people have pointed out that Loki show’s failed attempt on the representation of genderfluid people was more fluid phobia than actual representation, but I fear not many people realize the extent of the harm done. I certainly did not. Not until I started educating myself on the history of trans people.

In 2003, Micheal Bailey, an American psychologist at Northwestern University published a book named “The man who would be queen”. In this book, he attacks the traditional hypothesis that trans men would be women trapped inside male bodies. Instead, he claims trans women had only desired a transition because of two possible reasons:

1. Because they were extremely homosexual (and possibly didn’t want to be limited to gay men as partners).

2. Because they were aroused by the idea of possessing a female body themselves (autogynephilia) [1].

Both motivations are sexual in nature, so Bailey claims transsexuality was only a display of unusual sexual tastes (paraphilia). Other commonly known paraphilias are pedophilia or bestiality. But at least Bailey states that autogynephilia, unlike pedophilia, was not considered harmful [2]. But this is only the first of the two major points that make the show transphobic.

Bailey’s claims led to a public outrage directed at him, including ad hominem attacks against him, but also his family. This can’t be excused, but it also shows how deeply and personally hurt the community was by his book.

Enter a colleague of Bailey, Anna Lawrence. She defended his theories and even took one step further. She attributed the attacks on Bailey to narcissistic personality disorder in the offended transsexuals and argued his book was an injury to their grandiose, unrealistic sense of selves [3].

Now, does that sound familiar? The pairing of autogynephilia with narcissism? Of course, I can’t exclude the possibility the creators just weren’t familiar with trans-history. But the portrayal in the show fits the worst kind of stereotype you possibly could create without including pedophilia or bestiality*. But even as an unfortunate accident the show’s portrayal of the first major MCU character confirmed genderfluid can do massive harm to real people.

[1] Moser, C., A Different Perspective. Archives of Sexual Behavior, 2008. 37(3): p. 472-475.

[2] Bailey, J. and K. Triea, What Many Transgender Activists Don't Want You to Know: and why you should know it anyway. Perspectives in biology and medicine, 2007. 50: p. 521-34.

[3] Lawrence, A.A., Shame and Narcissistic Rage in Autogynephilic Transsexualism. Archives of Sexual Behavior, 2008. 37(3): p. 457-461.

* At this point, I am truly terrified of the idea what Waldron's sex scene might have included and I pray to god it will never be mentioned publically.

#Loki series negativity #tva loki meta #fluidphobia #transphobia #anti micheal waldron #I know there are genderfluid people who enjoy the show #and even the relationship #and that's totally fine #you are valid #This is about history #and to make everyone understand what some people might upset when it comes to the show #tom hiddleston

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pinktwingirl · 2 years

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Things I Learned from the Loki Series:

Abuse is okay as long as a woman is doing it to a man

Fascism is good, actually

Being treated with basic human decency is something you have to earn

If you’ve made mistakes in the past, the only way to be redeemed is to accept being constantly insulted, humiliated, and physically assaulted

Genderfluid people are weird and deserve to be ignored/made fun of

What great messages! 🙄

#loki #loki series #loki series negativity #fluidphobia #marvel #mcu #disney plus #mcu criticism #anti sylki #anti loki x sylvie #antisylki #anti michael waldron #anti sylvie

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shadow-turtle-234 · 3 years

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Via @emptymasks on Instagram

The queerbaiting is strong with Marvel y'all. this is from them, not us.

#disappointing #Loki #loki series #fluidphobia #transphobes #Words from Marvel themselves #there needs to be accountability in Marvel #marvel #mcu loki #this is why we fight #our voices are being ignored #Fuck Loki season two already man #if they improve themselves then maybe there will be a chance #trust is for dogs and children apparently #news #marvel news

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aliceprettystuff · 2 years

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Like literally guys what's not clicking??? The amount of people that don't get something this simple is disturbing, it's not that hard to understand.

#marvel #loki series #loki #loki laufeysdottir #loki laufeyson #loki of asgard #loki odinson #sylvie #sylvie laufeyson #sylvie laufeydottir #anti sylki #anti fluidphobia

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lucianalight · 3 years

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It's disturbing that the Loki series is now responsible for new transphobia terms for trans and genderfluid individuals to be h*rassed by. Phobs have discovered the word autogynephilia. This was the problem of claiming to be trans positive in your interviews when the series labels the sex(gender)fluid man as a narcissist. The series never cared to discuss LGBT+ themes, trauma, or the exploration of self love with an ounce of compassion.

I didn't know what autogynephilia meant and I searched it and I'm still fuming because I can't believe how transphobic it is.

"Autogynephilia” is a sex-fueled mental illness created by Ray Blanchard in 1989. Blanchard defines it as “a man’s paraphilic tendency to be sexually aroused by the thought or image of himself as a woman."

"One of the key concepts in this model is the premise that everyone who is gender variant can be categorized based on one of two “male” sexual interests: homosexuality or paraphilia." [X]

In contradiction to the commonly accepted model (both then and now) that transgender people have a gender identity that is incongruent with their birth-assigned sex, and distinct from their sexual orientation, Blanchard proposed that there were two fundamentally distinct types of trans women, each with a different sexual-orientation-related cause. Blanchard presumed that heterosexual trans women (i.e., those who are exclusively attracted to men) were driven to transition because of “homosexuality.” And he claimed that all other trans women (i.e., those who are lesbian, bisexual, or asexual) suffered from a “misdirected heterosexual sex drive” that led them to become attracted to the idea of becoming women themselves. Blanchard called this supposed misdirected-heterosexual-sex-drive “autogynephilia,” and he believed that it was simultaneously 1) a paraphilia (i.e., a pathological sexual desire), 2) a sexual orientation unto itself, and 3) the cause of any gender dysphoria and desire to transition exhibited by this population. [X]

This theory has been refuted many times in research literature.

I am so horrified and furious that a series which was about a genderfluid character, instead of raising awareness and helping trans and genderfluid people to be seen and accepted, managed to bring back so many transphobic notions and harm trans people and their progress.

The series made people relate sex to gender identity. While sex(genitals) does not determine your gender identity. People are not sexfluid. They are genderfluid. On top of all that now it caused people to relate sexual orientation to being trans and using a transphobic term that claims many trans people have paraphilias and that's why they transition. It's gross.

Did no one do their research? Couldn't they ask for advice from experts? They could at least read comics.

In one panel comics did more for trans and genderfluid people than the 6 hours series with all their false claims. Loki casually turns into her female form while declaring that she is always herself. This is not only about what is happening in the story and the ego death, but also about her identity. And her gender identity is part of that. She says in any form she is always Loki. And that's how Loki's genderfluidity should have been portrayed. They could both be shown to alter their forms but preferring one to another. Not as two different variants with different genders. Not making all Lokis cis. Not making being female a personality trait! The show has been really harmful to trans and genderfluid people.

#smh #such a mess #loki series criticism #transphobia #fluidphobia #autogynephilia #it goes without mention that i block anyone who uses this term either for loki or real people #it is very harmful and transphobic #anon #messages

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max-vandenburg-is-life · 3 years

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Everyone has their opinions about the Loki show but I think that something we can all agree on is that the so called "genderfluidity" was absolutely terrible

#it makes me so angry that so few ppl are talking about this and everyone is arguing about stupid stuff #and the fact that marvel benefited so much from this fucking shit #like when they showed that paper that had sex fluid written and everyone was like omg marvel confirmed loki as genderfluid #oh marvel so inclusive so progressive a genderfluid character #and i saw so many articles that were praising marvel for it #the show got so much publicity for that shit #and then it was shit #absolute fucking shit #and not only was the genderfluidity nowhere to be found??? they went even further by saying that loki being a different gender than male was #uncommon and scary like????????#i'm so fucking angry #i hate this so much #genderfluid #genderfluid phobia #fluidphobia #loki #loki show #loki series #marvel #marvel show #marvel series #an original post no way

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bigbazoxngas · 3 years

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Oooh I'm never forgiving Mike Waldron and Kate Herron for making Loki cis im literally never gonna get over it, like the moment i start thinking about it even a little bit I just get so pissed.

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emptymasks · 2 years

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The Failure of Genderfluid Representation in Loki

Finally finished! Been working on this for 3 months, hopefully this will be a weight off me. Please watch the video before assuming it's content or leaving comments, this is not a 1.5 hour video about Sylvie/Loki.

This video is split into sections talking about: the history of Loki being genderfluid in the comics, the queerbaiting (yes saying a character is going to be bi and trans and then only showing him as bi is still queerbaiting), “sex: fluid”, misgendering, and the character of Sylvie and the romantic pairing of her and Loki. And before you decide to label me as an ‘anti’ and dislike the video, you need to actually listen to why genderfluid people are calling the ship fluidphobic and transphobic because the most common way genderfluid people are degraded is being told to date themselves, real genderfluid creators have been getting comments from people telling them “I ship you with yourself” and these comments have thousands of likes, to the fact that showing Sylvie as a ‘female version’ of Loki (’female self’ is literally what Mobius calls her in the show) without ever establishing that Loki is also a woman is bad, and calling Sylvie a ‘female version’ of Loki, a genderfluid AMAB therefore trans woman, and having Sylvie be the only female variant of Loki while having Sylvie be the only variant of himself Loki is attracted to has made some trans people worry if the creators are transphobic and believe in autogynephilia, and it’s made some genderfluid people feel like genderfluidity is being fetishized.

But Sylvie/Loki is far from the only problem with the show, if that pairing wasn’t canon the show would still contain harmful genderfluid representation from the misgendering of Sylvie, Loki only being shown as male presenting and only using he/him pronouns, Mobius calling Sylvie Loki’s “female self”, “Have any of you ever met a woman version of us” and the other Loki’s reacting in surprise and disgust, the “sex: fluid” written on the file when Loki’s sex is AMAB and Loki’s gender is genderfluid and now sexfluid (or speciesfluid) is what he’s being called by fans who are erasing his genderfludiity and once again back to the common fluidphobic belief that genderfluid = shapeshifter, and the reverse, and therefore irl genderfluid people can’t exist.

As said in the video, the purpose of this is to educate on genderfluidity and fluidphobia. If you're genderfluid and you didn't find the same things, or any of these things, offensive that is 100% okay, but it doesn't change the fact that it's still bad representation and other genderfluid people were hurt by it. People who know about genderfluidity know these bad stereotypes and derogatory things aren't true to real life genderfluid people, but the majority of people don't know anything about genderfluidity and this is a bad way for them to learn about it. And if you’re not genderfluid, whether you’re trans or cis, you don’t get to decide what is and isn’t fluidphobic and what genderfluid people should or shouldn’t be upset about.

#loki #lokiedit #marveledit #lokiseriesedit #lokius #loki series #loki tv #genderfluid #fluidphobia #transphobia #video essay #mine #myvideos #loki discourse #marvel discourse #time husbands #loki x mobius #mobius x loki

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