#but like why are we focusing on ‘the showrunner is mean to fans of the fan favorite character’ and not like | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

skaruresonic · 9 days

Note

So the latest discourse is that saying that Sonic isn't a hugger and his clingy behavior towards Shadow in Prime is proof of how much the fandom loves to complain about the smallest things. In fact, "yall say Sonic should be free but yall don't want him to do anything".

I find it fascinating. One, the language that implies that fans who say "no Sonic wouldn't do X because it's OOC" are actively stifling a person's freedom. My dudes, Sonic is a character, not a real person. Please don't conflate the two.

Second... this is the same fandom that has been crying for 10 years that Shadow is being written terribly. That now he's just Vegeta, that he's nothing like he used to be, that his Boom portrayal was a travesty, that his prickliness towards Sonic is completely wrong because he has always respected him, really, go play SA2 where he was at his peak!

Why is Shadow's perceived character defended so staunchly, but defending Sonic's character comes off as restricting the freedom of the very character?

It's as if Sonic, to these fans, simply doesn't have a personality in the first place. He can be whatever we want him to be. Shadow, on the other hand, can only be how he used to be in a game 20 years old now, because we loved that one.

youtube

If we're gonna treat Sonic like he's a real person, it's only fair to respect his boundaries, no? Why should your desire to see him be cuddly supersede his boundaries? Would you do that to a real person?

Ofc the better retort would be "Sonic is a fictional character with an established character and you're misconstruing his love of freedom to suit your flanderization; pull your head out of your ass," but since this argument was made in bad faith, you gotta meet it where it lives.

People have been misinterpreting Sonic's whole attitude towards freedom to justify OOC non-game portrayals. First they insisted that Sonic has some dutiful love for the platonic ideal of freedom and that was why he always showed his enemies mercy. Now they're saying "you won't let Sonic do anything," as if fans are physically preventing poor third-party creators like Prime's showrunners from creating Peak Sonic(tm) by... criticizing Sonic's behavior after the fact. Because that's totally how reality works.

No, Patrick. Just because Sonic is "like the wind" doesn't mean any and all behavior is automatically in-character for him.

I suppose tomorrow's discourse will contend that Sega should let Sonic take the fattest rip off that bong because ST put a gag drawing of Classic smoking cigarettes on the break room door thirty years ago.

lol 420 blaze it

Anyway, if you look at the games, you'll find that Sonic isn't actually that touchy-feely. He rarely, if ever, hugs other people, but is typically the party being hugged instead. And he is usually portrayed as awkward or uncomfortable: he doesn't know what to do with his arms.

While some may argue that Frontiers!Sonic now feels "comfortable" enough to put a hand on Amy while she clings to him, he isn't... exactly reciprocating? He only seems to feel comfortable being glomped on when focusing on his other friends:

He's still not looking at Amy, he's looking at Tails lmao. More like he's just waiting for her to finish because he's come to expect getting glomped for long periods of time.

Whenever Sonic "touches" someone who initiates contact, he usually holds them at arm's length.

This is how he holds his best friend in the entire world, the second half of the Unbreakable Bond. If not even Tails is exempt from the junior prom dance rule, what makes folks think Sonic would act even chummier towards Shadow of all people?

Besides, I'm sure Game!Shadow's reaction to Sonic even attempting to hug him would be

---

It's really bizarre. I swear this is the only fandom where the main characters' IC behavior is derided as OOC purely because it doesn't gel with the fanon fandom has built up in their heads. Mostly because we've fostered this environment of "the games suck" through a constant background radiation of disparagement, with such messages seeping through every pore of Sonic fan spaces as:

1.) "Sonic is inconsistent" 2.) "the series was never good" 3.) "the Sega-Sonic character design standard is too generic and cookie-cutter" 4.) "the games are incapable of being as complex or as deep as [insert spinoff media here]" 5.) "Sonic is a static character [and therefore that's bad]" 6.) "Sonic vs. Eggman is boring and routine" 7.) "game purists think the games and/or Sega can never be criticized."

that his prickliness towards Sonic is completely wrong because he has always respected him, really, go play SA2 where he was at his peak!

Thus, the conundrum of being an SA2 fan in a day and age where fewer and fewer who hype it up have proven they've played it, much less understand the game's themes. I get stuck between this rock and hard place of being just as tired of the overhype, yet being forced to admit over and over again that I acknowledge my favorite Sonic game it isn't nearly as unimpeachably Peak(tm) as everyone portrays it so people won't think I'm... for lack of a better term, the kind of SA2 fan who thinks SA2!Shadow is the GOAT. Battle!Shadow is the GOAT and nothing anybody says can change my mind. None of you fake-ass Shadows ever said anything nearly as metal as "This is the final voice of the last war machine," have you? I thought not

It can't be understated how much Gerald's brainwashing mitigates SA2!Shadow's portrayal. Although it doesn't completely invalidate the entire portrayal, it does beg questions of how much he was driven by forces outside his control.

While there are aspects of SA2!Shadow's character worth genuine analysis, people exaggerate his better qualities while ignoring or downplaying his less palatable traits (traits he displays in later portrayals as well), like the showboating and arrogance. And like I always say with Shadow, you can't cut him up into pieces like that. You have to accept the whole, rough edges and all.

It also doesn't escape my notice that SA2!Shadow advocates imply the only time Shadow ever had a "good" portrayal was before he underwent character development, which is another stereotype of us SA2 fans: that we perpetually huff nostalgia think the past is better simply for being the past.

Meanwhile, I've been saying for years that I would love for someone, anyone, to give Shadow something to do that has nothing to do with the ARK. That's why my first reaction upon hearing about SxS Gens was to headdesk. You have a character who's all about forging his own path and moving on, yet you're always sticking him in the same goddamn hamster wheel. Why.

---

Why is Shadow's perceived character defended so staunchly, but defending Sonic's character comes off as restricting the freedom of the very character?

Tbqh, I don't think it's fair to pit Sonic and Shadow against each other like that because the entire cast, really, is being gutted by a fandom that insists the games have nothing of substance to respect. God knows people make shit up for Shadow and claim it has canonical basis too. And, you know, sometimes they don't even bother to do that - they just make things up simply because they figure the tropes that are good enough for other franchises must be good enough for Sonic as well. Looking at you, "Shadow was tortured on the ARK."

Sonic, Shadow, Eggman, Rouge, Cream, Tails, Amy, Knuckles, Silver... Most, if not all, the core cast has it bad these days. And I don't think this fanonization is going to get any better unless there's a change in fandom culture. Not until people stop thinking of the games as inferior and game purists as the no-fun-allowed fiction police.

#asks #long post

38 notes · View notes

fatum679 · 1 month

Note

Hello, sorry to brother you again, please lmk if u have enough of my rants 🤣. I wanna ask , don't you think it's somewhat crazy that due to this ridiculous a*ysmond vs. helaemond ship war, the character of Helaena Targaryen seems to have more haters among the TG than TB part of the fandom? I legit know several TB supporters/ content creators who claim Helaena deserves better and it will be cool if it turns out she has kids with someone who likes and respects her(=Aemond). Also, even TBs point out if the showrunners want to give Aemond a romantic subplot, helaemond will be a better option, since unlike a*ysmond , this relationship is a consensual one + Aemond's protectiveness and attachment to his sister appear pretty obvious... It's such a pity some Green fans diminish Hel's clairvoyance and claim it's useless and she's far less powerful seer and less interesting character than A*ys. They want A*ys' magic to be explored further, and not Hel's. Which I totally don't understand, since in GOT, we have already seen greenseers, woods witches and even Red Priests, but we still don't know much about dragon dreamers. Imo focusing on Targaryen magic in a Targaryen -centric show would be a far better idea. Also, HOTD's portrayal of Helaena could potentially be a really refeshing and original take on a magical woman. I mean unlike stereotypical sorceresses, usually dark-haired, clad in flowy, dusky gowns and dwelling in fantastic, Gothic manors, Hel looks like a sweet Princess ,but she's still blood of the dragon and a seer. I mean she doesn't need Gothic aesthetics and stuff to be "magical", since she herself is magic!

Hello! I'm glad to see your questions and glad that you are interested in my opinion 😊

The asoiaf fandom has always been toxic, no matter if you discuss books or series, there have always been wars in the fandom. Treat it like a game and don't spend a lot of energy on it.

Yes, there is a war of ships going on now. It's true, alysmond stans is the anti-Helaena and the anti-Helaemond. I don't understand why TG thinks Alys is part of the green party. Alys is not green. She has her own personal interests and goals.

Dance of the dragons is a Targaryen story, Alys is not a Targaryen, she is just a tertiary character (like Mysaria), she will not have more time.

I really want to see more of Helaena as a character, more of her magical abilities, more of her personality, more of her connection to the people of King's Landing, her family, her children, and her dragon. Rhaenyra did more action (in the book she sat on Dragonstone for the entire war), so I'm sure Helaena will have a lot of screen time.

Helaena doesn't have to be a stereotypical and banal goth girl. Comparing her to Alys is a waste of time. Helaena is beautiful, she looks like an elf and a fallen angel to girls from sagas.

Helaegon stans opposes Aemond, and they don't like all the allusions to Helaemond. I'm not anti-Aegon, but I'm anti-helaegon because there was no love between Aegon and Helaena in the show or even in the book. It was a forced marriage. Aegon had a mistress and other children. helaegon is lmao. helaegon is an abusive relationship. Abusive to Helaena. This is the reality and the truth.

“Princess Helaena was breaking her fast with her children when the Kingsguard came to her…but when asked the whereabouts of Prince Aegon, her brother and husband, she said only, “He [Aegon] is not in my bed, you may be sure. Feel free to search beneath the blankets””

“Though the good septon admits Prince Aegon was with a paramour when he was found, he insists the girl was the daughter of a wealthy trader, and well cared for besides”

“We have nothing in common”, “You [Aemond] marry her [Helaena], then”

“She's an idiot”

“I regret the disappointment you [Baela] are soon to suffer. But if you ever wish to kniw what it is to be well satisfied, all you have to do is ask”

“It isn’t so bad. Mostly he just ignores you…except sometimes when he’s drunk”.

“Think of the shame on your wife, on me” [Aegon r*p*d the Dyana who helped Helaena with her babys]

“I will find a ship and sail away, never to be found” [Aegon wanted to run away, abandon Helaena and her children]

I think Aegon always wanted to be on Rhaenyra's side. Perhaps he thought that Viserys would start to notice him and love him if he was closer to his older sister than to his other siblings. Even as a child, he was more interested in spending time with his nephews, and he did not take Alicent's words seriously until Aemond's eye was gouged out (Aemond could have died after such a wound)

“If Rhaenyra come into power you very life could be forfeit. Aemond is as well. She could move to cut off any challenge to her succession”

“Then I won’t challenge”

Aegon has a bad relationship with his mother and siblings ("She's an idiot" "He's a twat"). I think Aegon was more interested in love from Viserys and Rhaenyra than from his real family.

“My sister is the heir, not me,” he says in Eustace’s account. “What sort of brother steals his sister’s birthright?”

“He [Viserys]didn't like me”

Perhaps Aegon liked the idea of marrying Rhaenyra?

Sorry, I got a little off topic.

I agree with you, it would be great if Helaena's children were with the man she loves (Aemond). It is very sad and terrible that Helaena had to endure drunken se**ally har***ment from Aegon 🫣 😱 Poor girl 🥺 😭 I hate Aegon for this! Alicent, why did you let this happen? Helaena could have Aemond! Helaena was scared when Otto and Alicent asked her where Aegon was. She lowered her head - this is a gesture of protection. I don’t understand people who “like” Helaena and support the helaegon ship. They support abusive relationships and domestic vio**nce. It is a fact. This is anti-Helaena relationships.

#We need more Helaena in season 2!

19 notes · View notes

prophecyqueen · 3 months

Note

It's really funny that Helaemond is still so hated by many greens and is often mentioned as a possible reason that could even make them stop watching the show. Ofc, I doubt they would stop watching it, they're mostly being dramatic. But still, making Helaemond canon by the showrunners would be, apparently, the worst thing ever🙄 and would irreparably ruin the greens.

However, these haters almost always ignore the fact that if any ship could ruin or seriously harm not only the greens but the show in general, it's Rh*enicent. And I really have an impression that the showrunners' idea of Rh*enicent is the one most TB fans have: the one where Alicent is constantly apologetic and subservient to Rhaenyra at the expense of her own family. Idk if those leaks are true, but even the possibility of Alicent and Rhaenyra's meeting at Dragonstone in the season finale irritates me. And the funny thing is, it really could happen given the show's nonsensical pushing of the ship that lost any meaning after the time skip. The seeds are unfortunately planted in episodes 8 and 9. But no, Helaemond is the biggest problem for the greens' storylines, according to my fellow greens. Right. Honestly, even though I would really like to see Helaemond happen on screen (in my version of Helaemond the children are still Aegon's, at least the twins), I don't have much hope anymore. I'm almost sure, however, that we'll see a lot of Rh*enicent inspired nonsense. I mean, what indelible harm could Helaemond possibly do to the greens? Imo it could (if done right ofc) only give more depth and complexity to Helaena and Aemond's characters. If the children's paternity and legitimacy is the problem for the antis (since some of green fans desperately want Helaena to be morally superior to Rhaenyra and a good and faithful wife™️ to Aegon no matter what) the children could still be Aegon's because Helaemond doesn't automatically mean that Jaehaerys and Jaehaera are Aemond's bastards. And Rh*enicent? I don't see how it could be good for the show since it would only further ruin Alicent for the reasons I mentioned above and wouldn't be helpful to Rhaenyra's character either. The pushing of that ship will only perpetuate the "evil patriarchy, evil men, poor manipulated women" narrative, which is honestly quite insulting and oversimplified for the story like this. And still, even Rh*enicent is more welcome in green spaces than Helaemond. Why, I'll never understand.

Sorry for this long rant.

hello.

you are so right and i very much agree with everything you said. everyone who follows my blog knows that i talked about this a million times and i did acknowledge and address some of the fears the greens have when it comes to helaemond but it's also hard to ignore the double standard and hypocrisy, just like you point out.

also rhaen*cent isn't just welcomed in green spaces, a huge chunk of the greens fandom ships them which is laughable for them to then turn around and talk about how helaemond would ruin the greens. rhaen*cent, from green fandom pov, doesn't even get 1/10 of the shit helaemond gets.

as for hopes for helaemond... i would write it off completely yet. unlike the fans of one certain ship who always claim they know what will happen, i can't claim the same. i'm not a writer for the show, i don't know what they have planned, but i have a feeling there could be a possibility of more helaemond in season 2. personally i will wait and see, these writers are not exactly consistent so who knows what to expect for them but if anything helaemond in season 1 was written with clear romantic subext and intent.

when it comes to rhaen*cent, we will certainly see more of it. they are very set on focusing on this ship so i fully expected it to be central to the story going forward, regardless of whether i like it or not. it sucks from many povs but i am fully aware that the writers are committed to this.

the claim that they'll stop watching if helaemond is canon... i mean it's their choice and they should do so if they want to but it's amusing because first of all, a lot of them will tune in regardless and this is all bark (remember when people were saying they won't watch hotd because of got s8? right...), but even if they don't, they are a very small portion of hotd audience and it won't really matter.

#asks #anti rhaenicent #helaemond #hotd discourse

8 notes · View notes

eponastory · 11 days

Note

Sorry, got something else to say! :)

Honestly, I feel like Zutara could be a possibility for the NATLA. I'm not gonna say why, but I feel like it will. You may not believe me, buuut...I just feel it in my bones. I also think Aang will have a different love interest in s2 of NATLA...(bring in Toph! LOL! XD).

But seriously, I feel like they'll change some things up a bit. I mean, like you said, they're real people in the NATLA, and they have to make it realistic for the story to work. And the actor playing Aang said he wants to be around someone that's his own age, sooo...there could be some potential Taang in s2 for all we know. :D (As well as some hints of Zutara in the s2 until near the end of s2! ;) ) I mean, Kaang(I'm not calling it Kata*ng, because it disrespects the name Taang. XP ) wasn't even focused on in s1 of NATLA, so I wonder what a girl that's exactly the actor's age will bring in to the table? ;D

(And I'll say it right now, I'm more of a Taang fan than a Zutara guy. I like Zutara, but my heart is always going to go with Taang. XD )

And I know, it sounds like I'm reaching here, but hey...you never know. ;)

(Also, heard you're from South Louisiana! I'm in Houston, Texas, but born Mississippian! LOL! XD )

Honestly, I'd be fine with no romantic sub plot just because I'm worried it will be screwed up somehow. But it's ultimately up to the showrunners and writers... who do seem to support Zutara. I believe even some of the cast support the ship as well.

But it's not a huge deal to me as far as the adaptation goes. I'll be okay with or without it as long as we don't have to suffer the awkwardness between the actors who have sibling chemistry.

And yes, I'm from South Louisiana... primarily Cajun Country. So not New Orleans (they are pretend Cajuns and mostly Creole).

#zutara #natla #will they wont they

6 notes · View notes

phonoix · 1 year

Text

I hope these are my last insane thoughts on season 2 and then I promise I'll shut up forever.

Obviously there's spoilers from the show and even the books, please don't come at me I've warned you. I've binged the show in a day and I'm not good at keeping spoilers so you've been WARNED. <3

Let's go!

The thing that was very clear to me, since season 1, is that the showrunners relied so much on the crows that they should've just made the SoC show from the beginning.

Why adapt the SaB books when they're clearly not the main focus even in their own show?

In the first season the blend between the two series of books and two sets of very different characters was pretty smooth and actually very very enjoyable.

We get to see characters interact even though they're not from the same timeline and that's pretty cool.

A few things were cut out from the first book in that season but I'm not mad about it, in the end they were infinitesimal things.

But oh boy this new season.

From the first moment it was pretty clear to me that the writers had decided to focus on the crows.

Disclaimer before I go too far:

I don't actually resent the crows, I haven't read the books yet but I'm working on it. I like the characters and the actors are SPOT ON, they did an exceptional job. Still, the show was supposed to be about SaB, and in my opinion that was not delivered in s2.

Let's continue.

From the title cards to the amount of detail in the crows plotline, it's easy to see that they're the beloved ones in the franchise and by the fans.

(Quick tangent: I don't understand why some crows fans are being so mean about the sab trilogy. Like? Okay we get it. You think the first trilogy is boring. Now let me read it in peace. But I don't think we're all ready for that conversation. I literally saw a post being like "why can't I just watch the crows parts, who cares about the main story" You can but, it isn't THEIR SHOW-)

Because even if the crows story in the show isn't the SoC or CK ones, it's a very detailed one. Like- I'm seriously impressed by the sword plotline, that was actually so good. (Even though the crows+Tolya+Zoya went on this wonderful trip, almost died to retrieve a sword they used THREE TIMES. but I'm getting off topic.)

And since this isn't their show it's okay they have a new story that isn't necessarily the one from their books. In the show they have a new adventure that will eventually flow in their own show, that's fine.

So why not make the crows show from the beginning?

I'm focusing too much on the crows but I swear I do have other points.

It's plain as day that the next season, crows spin off or not, is going to be about them. (If Netflix doesn't cancel the show. REALLY NETFLIX???)

That cliffhanger? That's literally the plotline of SoC. (I DID read the first few chapters of SoC, I promised I was working on it and I am!)

What I'm really upset about is that the characters of SaB were basically abandoned to themselves, the level of detail in their plotline was so low.

The writers literally picked four key moments from Siege and Storm and Ruin and Rising and went with it. They've speed run so fast through those two books I got whiplash anytime I stopped to take a breath.

And that's another sign of, I guess, the showrunners' fear that there might not be a third season. Just cram the two books together because we don't have the luxury of adapting one at a time.

But boy it was painful to watch. They could've adapted both books together? Yes. Could've it been done better? Yes.

As someone who LOVED the SaB trilogy it was really sad.

I didn't like this season, they killed people that weren't supposed to die (yet) just for shock effect and they've basically compressed four books in eight episodes. The pacing of the second season felt,,, odd, like we were travelling through hyperspace.

They tried to tie Nikolai at the crows and it felt so odd it was almost dumb. (I'm talking about the fact that "turns out it was Nikolai all along that hired the crows to kidnap Alina")

The SaB parts were rushed and at times sloppy. They glossed over ENTIRE CHUNKS of the books and for what? It wasn't even enjoyable.

And it's insane because the first season was so good?

I'm the first one to say that you can't properly adapt a book into a movie or show because, well a book is a book and the level of detail that is in there can never be fully put in a show. But this wasn't even well executed.

I'm all down for cutting parts that can be cut out, or like, morphing a few parts together so they're all mentioned but take less time. You know? Iconic lines can be put in other contexts, I'm totally cool with that. You can mention something that is important to the story or like something beloved by fans even without spending an episode on it.

But, like- for example. The scene of the Darkling's attack at the Spinning Wheel? Is just. So wrong-

In the books it happens at the Palace, during a party (I think it's Nikolai and Alina's engagement's party as well) and like, the anxiety and the build up to it is insane. I was literally sweating while reading it, the time it takes to realize Vasily's mistake (that asshole) and the anxiety of "will they get to the Little Palace in time to save the others", it's gruesome but also terrifying and in the show is so bland. You barely even register it happens.

And then there's another attack, this time for real at the Spinning Wheel but they're two different parts in two different books. And that one was also anxiety packed and just so good. Baghra confronting the Darkling, baby little Misha. WHAT HAPPENS TO NIKOLAI 👀.

But in the show it doesn't even properly exist.

They've morphed the two (very different) parts together but they weren't even good. What did they gain? 40 minutes of screen time? That they spent on the god awful ending? More time for the crows? Sure why not, but again it's not their show. (I swear I'm not upset at the crows lmao.)

Literally those two attacks where something worth spending an episode on but they were completely forgot about or poorly executed. So poorly executed they have to relay on something else to show the nichevo'ya's effect on Nikolai. (Also completely forgot: the nichevo'ya attacking Alina and literally chomping her shoulder- but now I'm getting picky.)

They completely glossed over Alina's Saint journey. The way she DOESN'T want to be a Saint, her guilt and the fact she feels like a fraud, the way the poor faithful people are treated at the gates of the city.

They've added Inej calling her saint a few times but they never show the zealots or the crowds of people chanting her name. The people claiming to sell her bones or the pressure Alina feels or her hopelessness whenever she looks over those people raising their hands at her.

All the shit she has to go through with the Apparat. (Rat of a man) The White Cathedral, how Alina is basically drained after the Little Palace attack but the Apparat makes her do essentially magic tricks to keep the crowds at bay while at the same time keeping her underground, away from the sun, to make her weaker.

Alina finally gaining control of her abilities (literally cutting a mountain in half) but also finally gaining the trust of the Grisha and turning into a badass general.

Rip show fans you'll never know how fucking powerful and what a savage white-haired Alina was.

THEY FORGOT ABOUT MY BABY MISHA AND WHAT ABOUT ONCAT?

Mal and Alina's conflict that goes on for TWO AND A HALF EXCRUCIATING BOOKS was nonexistent. Which I'm actually rather happy about, but then the ending doesn't make sense.

The ending? Boy don't even make me start on this. It felt like a fan fiction in the worst way possible.

Can I talk about David? I will quickly talk about David.

What was that about? Guys. Be for real please. Tell me it's all a joke. I haven't read the KoS duology yet, (I'm working on it. I'm a slow reader) but I know what happens in RoW, so I knew THAT was inevitable. But guys. This was awful. My girl Genya has been through so much and now you add THIS?

I'm 100% sure David was killed for shock effect and just to take him out of the triumvirate. What for, tho? So that Alina could have a girl power moment? This is insane-

I'm all down for Alina having her badass moments because god knows she absolutely deserves them, but she had PLENTY of them in the books,,, IF ONLY YOU ADDED THEM TO THE SHOW.

Literally what happened to "I'm the Sun Summoner. It gets dark when I say it does."? Wasn't that girl power enough? Or literally any time Alina rekts the Apparat? Wasn't that badass enough?

I know this sound like the ramblings of a mad woman but I am feeling quite mad after watching s2.

I'm not going to pretend I liked it.

There were some things I didn't hate, others I quite liked, but in the grand picture I'm very disappointed.

I loved the SaB trilogy, in my opinion it was very good. The crows books feel very action packed and that's good but I liked that some parts of the SaB trilogy feel very calm. You know? There are a bunch of "dull" moments at the Little Palace, where Alina has to venture into the political life or just where we get to understand how the Grisha in Ravka tick. And honestly they were some of my favorite parts.

So,,,, in conclusion? I'm not happy about this season. I waited so long for it and I'm honestly disappointed by the SaB plotline. Again I liked the crows part but that's because it wasn't really based on their books. (even though I know the first few episodes are loosely based on CK, but ultimately their quest wasn't something out them.)

I've hoped the SaB story would've been different but it isn't so I'll just reread the books to calm and console my soul. (Idk it felt like they were the least loved kids in the show. And sometimes even by some fans.)

The actors are amazing, they all have so much untapped potential it's insane. And it's a shame we won't get to see them act in so many cool scenes.

Anyways, pardon my bitterness and and absolute lack of sense in this rant. <3

13 notes · View notes

lemonhemlock · 1 year

Note

"ryan has been quoted in the past saying aegon ii is his favourite aegon and also a "grey character" yet in the show he has more monstrous hobbies than ramsay and little character development."

I've never heard this interview and it's just wow… "he is grey" when he is a rapist and children fighting pits enjoyer? It's a pity this interview was before these episodes, I wish someone asked Ryan about this. You'd think they don't understand how their writing translates to the viewers but they know what they are doing very well, I mean, look how they made Rhaenyra into the chosen one and how most of her characteristics are shown in a positive light and the show never focuses on the bad things she does, always framing her as a sympathetic character. A scene where she walks after giving birth to see Alicent wasn't in the script, but they wanted to make the audience sympathize with Emma's Rhaenyra from the start and they threw Olivia's Alicent under the bus for it. HBO used this scene as a preview of the episode and people were hating Alicent even before they've seen her. Daemon also has this heroic framing, his fighting sequence was so impressive people think he is the best fighter in all GoT universe, the writers romanticized daemyra by making them star-crossed lovers, they even showed a scene that can be seen as him bonding with two dragons at the same time, he is literally the coolest. This is why I will never understand team black complaining that the showrunners hate Daemon. I get what Ryan is saying about Aegon being complicated and fascinating to write, but his complexity is simply overshadowed by the terrible things they wrote for him. (This is just a rant)

If Ryan is truthful about him stanning Aegon, it's possible that the decisions to monsterize him didn't come from Ryan, but he can't exactly come out publicly and criticize his working colleagues either. So, when asked about his take on Aegon, he can only talk from his perspective and that's obviously not going to jive with what's on screen. "Yeah, I think Aegon is a complex and interesting character, but X and Y came into my sandbox and stamped all over my plans" - that's not going to happen.

Something definitely went down behind the scenes if Miguel Sapochnik left, while Ryan Condal stayed, because the reason given reads very PR to me. But we have to wait until next season to see whether if Ryan is a secret green or whether the team black whitewashers were weeded out or not or whether HBO thinks they're gonna make more money if they turn Rhaenyra into a saint.

Ryan says he's been a fan for 20 years, so that's a start. But in any case, all of this is speculation based on vibes, we don't really have any concrete proof - like, if the original scripts leaked at least we'd have something to go off on, comparing the script with what ended up being filmed. But we are not in any way privy to backroom discussions and complaints and power struggles.

A scene where she walks after giving birth to see Alicent wasn't in the script

Oh, I didn't know this!

#ask #anon #hotd critical [production]#hotd critical [storytelling]

12 notes · View notes

cpd5777 · 2 years

Note

do you trust Gwen and the writers in relation to Jay and Upstead? I don't because Gwen showed in 9b that Vo*ght is above everything and how Jay was written (10x01 - 10x03) was tasteless and disrespectful

Hello. So I received a lot (and I mean a lot) of asks about Gwen, the writing, ruining Upstead, and all manner of asks like this so I thought I would just put my thoughts down in one spot for anyone who cares.

Being a showrunner is very different from being a writer or even the best writer in the writer’s room. As a writer you have time to focus on writing, coming up with ideas that fit the outline, discussing those ideas, you are supported in a different way and you support the show in a different way.

When you are a showrunner you have many masters to answer to, you are making a lot of calls with that in mind.

As far as Gwen is concerned, she is by all accounts a complete badass who worked her way up in the onechicago universe, wrote some of the best eps we have seen including crossovers, is loved and respected and was recognized for her amazing work and given this showrunner shot. No matter how I feel about 9B and Jesse’s exit, I will always celebrate this fact. In an often male dominated field, she’s crushed it.

I personally think that in the jump from writer to showrunner, it seems to me that maybe this was a case of wanting to please too many people and give everyone their storyline. And as a result I think 9B was discombobulated and focused in on things that may have pleased some of the lead actors but that the fans were less interested in. I can see what the strategy was but it fell flat in execution with the Anna / Voight storyline.

I also think the Jesse exit was terrible. Why reinvent the wheel on his whole character to justify this exit? Terrible IMHO. Why rewrite history in interviews? Honestly not sure we will ever know the answer nor will I ever get over it, but one thing is true that Jesse and Tracy acted their asses off.

I do get the sense that the Jesse exit happened without a lot of advance warning so we will have to see how they dig out of this hole. They probably knew they had Tracy’s talent to lean on and I believe they will lean on it heavily.

I do not personally feel super psyched about next steps but in Tracy I trust and where she goes I go. So for now, I am hanging in to the show for her only.

#anon asks #upstead #chicago pd

15 notes · View notes

willel · 2 years

Note

this might be an unpopular opinion but idk why any of the kid characters were written to be in relationships so early. like both mileven and Lumax were in a relationship by the end of one season. I feel like what would’ve been more appropriate is a slow love story where they’re all just a group of platonic friends and they get together by the last season (kind of like Ron and Hermione)

Yeah I guess, but I mean, people eat that stuff up. Majority of the fandom right now is in a full on war over these ships after all, and the PR and showrunners do nothing to stop it. It keeps fans engaged for the long wait period and can even sell merchandise.

I personally have never taken the kid ships seriously. Not that I think they don't love each other and all that, but all this started when they were 12/13. I remember being 12/13 and how unserious all the relationships around me were (I, much like Will, had 0% interest in dating or being in a relationship and wanted to play video games all day. But as it turns out, I was a smol aroace kid who just didn't know it yet)

It wasn't until this season where they added a serious level of complexity and complication in Lucas and Max's relationship that I became more interested in their dynamic. It's not a perfect relationship but now it feels like they have moved beyond being little kids in their first little relationship. It feels like a romantic bond that can last a very long time because they really get each other and Lucas (through trial and error) is able to "unmask" Max in a way no one else can. I love the maturity in their relationship now.

That said, they probably could've waited to thrust these kids into committed relationships when they were only 13ish. But that IS life. 13 year olds date each other. They break up 10 times and get back together. They fight over petty stuff and then act like nothing happened the next day. So it's not like it's not realistic and I guess it's not only for the entertainment purposes. But yeah. It's genuinely so unserious most of the time for me so I don't really care. (though like I mentioned above, I do care more about lumax at this point)

As for Harry Potter stuff, I never finished any of the books and I only watched the movies once. My perception of those ships is very skewed and I didn't see any of the ships coming until they happened. Lol. Similarly to Stranger Things, I think the romantic drama and fluff just flew over my head as I focused on trying to understand the magic and the main plot. I never ended up being a Potterhead though and actively avoid it these days.

Anyway. It is a shame the Duffers continue to lean into the romantic drama and conflict and don't invest more time into the platonic stuff unless it's Dustin and -insert random adult male Dustin has latched onto for the season- Yep. When I really think about it, pretty much all the platonic love has been sucked into the Dustin-Steve-Robin-Eddie dynamic and that's about it.

It's truly a miracle we got that Jonathan and Will scene or that El and Will hug. The Lucas and Erica crumbs were very much appreciated as well. But as you can see, it's all crumbs.

#stranger things #ask

17 notes · View notes

what-do-1000-swords-look-like · 2 years

Text

Had to pop back in for a second just for this:

Eddie "has always been a person who is more comfortable acting than talking," said co-showrunner Kristen Reidel.

Buck: "Why are you just telling me this now?" (Eddie then makes it perfectly clear that it's not about the shooting that just happened, but about Buck's response to it, thinking it would be better if he had been the one who was shot, and Eddie wants him to know that he's not expendable -- had Buck not said that, it's a possibility Eddie might not have told him about the will change, 4x14)

And of course: "Ice goes on the eye, bud" (5x04)

"which forces him to ponder questions of identity"

"Eddie is a small storage unit of past trauma. He's got a lot of trauma there, and it just doesn't go away that easily," Minear said. (this after Tim said that the shooting itself for Eddie was not 'gonna be particularly traumatized by what he went through in that moment', so that means something else, maybe the hostage situation, maybe the events from Eddie Begins, maybe the time he served, maybe growing up with his parents, maybe Shannon's death or his self-perceived failure at giving Christopher the family unit he feels he deserves with a mom included, maybe all of it, are gonna be at the root of his trauma exploration in 5B - x)

And while Eddie will be forced to focus on his mental health before possibly returning to the field one day, the members of his (former) chosen family "are involved in his path forward," Reidel previewed. "Eddie finally reaches the point

(before said point)

(His panic attacks/anxiety was not due to the trauma of the shooting, they made that perfectly clear in the first two episodes, it was all due to his relationship with Ana moving too fast)

"Eddie's story is kind of a fractal of what Eddie's story always is, which is he wants to do the right thing," co-showrunner Tim Minear told TV Guide. "He's got this kid and he wants to live responsibly for his kid, but sometimes, he kind of overcompensates and he's putting a lot of his focus on Christopher when, really, what he needs to look at is what's going on with him." (hmm, where have I heard this before? 🤔)

Eddie to Buck: "Yeah, but would I be doing it for him or for me?" (2x10, him pondering about letting Shannon fully back into his and Christopher's lives)

Carla to Eddie: "But just be sure that you're following your heart, not Christopher's, okay?" (4x13, regarding his relationship with Ana)

And what have we seen so far regarding Eddie in 5A? The theme of heart:

He thinks he's having a heart attack in 5x01 which turns out to be a panic attack that is actually induced by his fast growing relationship with Ana (romantic aka heart)

A heart is being delivered to the hospital for a transplant in the same episode when the helicopter nearly falls off the building and they need to save everyone on board and Bobby nabs the heart in time

They focused on the cardiologist in the same episode not only for Eddie (and then Eddie and Buck) but also showing her interaction with Bobby

When the felon who took Eddie hostage shoots himself, Eddie works to keep the heart pumping so the man's son can get it & of course than infamous line: "The man's dead, Eddie" (Buck) "But his heart's not" (Eddie)

but back to the interview:

where he has to not only admit he needs help,

but he has to be willing to accept it

and to embrace it."

In some ways, fans might argue, Buck has become inextricably linked with Eddie and Christopher.

It's not an argument anymore, they've been interweaving Buck's story with Eddie and Christopher's for a while now. Two whole seasons as a matter of fact.

Minear said in an interview last May that Buck and Eddie's relationship has "come up specifically and continuously" in the writers' room (oh, I bet it does, Tim -- and in the interview linked above, let's not forget he also said this: "I always get bagged on by the fans for stuff like this, but all the conversations that the fans have are conversations that happen in the writers’ room." -- and this is in response to being asked if any evolving dialogue has come up in the writers' room about defining the kind of love between Buck and Eddie that is 'clearly there')

Reidel said that, while the writers' "original intention is never to string anybody along," she doesn't know if there has been a goal about defining their dynamic, even if she realizes the actors who play them "have terrific chemistry." As a woman who has many "amazing, deep relationships with other women in my life that are platonic," Reidel said, "I personally have always seen [Buck and Eddie] as a great friendship." (and this is why all of the characters, not just Buck and Eddie, have felt off kilter for 5A, they've felt somewhat out of character, because she sees things differently to what Tim does, and she stepped in while he was away on Lonestar, so 5B ought to be interesting)

Over the years, there have been numerous nods to their dynamic—an elf mistaking Buck as one of Christopher's fathers, Maddie teasing Buck about having a "boy crush on Eddie," some social media users saying they think Buck and Eddie would make a great couple, Eddie telling Buck "there's nobody in this world I trust with my son more than you." (Numerous nods that the show purposely made that are not two best friends being nodded to, nor two guys in the fox hole together, nor family, these are all things except maybe the last line technically that strictly nod to their pairing as a couple!)

"But I think the struggle with the Buck and Eddie relationship is, we write a thing and we have an idea in our head of what the scene means and what those lines mean and an intention behind it, and then it goes out into the world," Reidel added. "People may receive it in a way that we had not expected or that we had not planned on, and I'm not gonna tell people that they're watching the show wrong because people see what they see. But I think that they're very good friends, and in a lot of ways, they are family, and I think that's where they are right now." (SPN is that you? Just kidding, I get her point, and I'm not saying she's wrong at all, but if B&E were just meant to be family and platonic, there is no reason for Buck and Eddie to be paralleled to the other main romantic couples on the show, see 3x16 and 3x18 for reference, and for Abby and Eddie to be heavily paralleled, see all of season 2 and 3x18 for beginning reference)

Reidel, who wrote that fateful finale, said the episode was based on her own experiences of being raised by a single mother. Her mother's will "named her best friend as my guardian, because she felt that if something happened to her, the best thing for me would not be to be raised by my grandparents—it would be to be raised by her best friend," she explained. (yes, entirely plausible that was her intention based on her own experiences as she said here but...girl, did you see how they shot the episode you wrote?)

In her mind, Reidel said Christopher already knows about the will, and "he agreed to it when Eddie said, 'This is the thing I want to do.'" (based on the kind of father we know Eddie to be, this could be viable)

But unless there is a major change in either Eddie or Buck's life, she doesn't know if there are any plans to revisit that conversation—but nothing is ever off the table. "You can never say never because sometimes the story just takes on a different direction that you didn't plan on," she said. (once again, this brings me to my point that 5A felt off with characters' reactions to important info that was being revealed through their story lines, her inexperience at being showrunner shows, though I'm surprised because any writer for any medium worth their salt knows the golden rule: show don't tell -- so how could we not see Buck and Eddie talking about it again at least once more? especially in light of what happened at the end of 5A and now with Eddie's upcoming facing his trauma?)

"To me, that's kind of an example of, I intend one thing and people see it a different way. And there really is no right or wrong—you see what you see," Reidel added. (SPN cast, is that you? Only kidding, I appreciate that she at least takes this stance rather than going the old SPN route -- you SPN veterans know exactly what I'm talking about)

"So I completely get why people saw that as something deeper and more meaningful." (um, girl, regardless of this show, in RL no matter the situation, how is it not deeper and more meaningful when someone is chosen and named as your child's guardian in the event of your death? For both parties? Did you not just say above how important it was when your mom chose her best friend as your legal guardian?)

"And family doesn't always look the way you think it's going to." (this is the one line in this interview I agree with, it's true, but by her logic, I'm thinking Hen and Karen must be platonic besties too while Hen is in secretly in love with Chimney, basing that off of Tim's remark in his interview about the comparison; maybe Maddie and Chimney have just really been co-parenting all of this time while they nurse a really strong friendship; maybe Bobby and Athena are just roommates who sometimes have kinky sex in the kitchen when they have the house to themselves: "You want me to make pasta for dinner?" "Nah, I'd rather have spaghetti and meatballs, wink wonk" "Alright, as long as you wipe down the counters after" "I just bought a new canister of Clorox wipes, we're good" "Cool, you're the best, roomie"; sounds legit to me)

And while fans will have to wait to see how that relationship will continue to evolve, the showrunners confirmed that in a teaser published Tuesday, Eddie can be seen holding a baseball bat and breaking down in front of Buck. "Eddie is very tightly wound and eventually he's gonna go off," Reidel previewed, "and that's the moment after Eddie goes off. That's what it looks like after Eddie finally cannot contain his pain and drama any longer." (how the hell is trauma considered drama? yeah, I gotta say, she's written some good episodes but either they made some changes on set or the cast really brought it home, which let's face it they do every time anyway, because wow, she sounds slightly...emotionally lacking when it comes to what she intends for these characters which is so weird when you look at all of the episodes she's written for 911, and apparently she's also written for The Blacklist? Like how...I don't get it)

So bottom line is, I can't tell you exactly what this woman is thinking. I did start to worry with 5A (seeing the OOCness after the past 4 seasons just didn't sit right with me for Buck, for Eddie, for Athena, for Maddie despite her PPD altho that last one I understood was due to bts with JLH's maternity leave, it just didn't feel like 9-1-1 to me when it came to the characters though we got some great moments and nuggets like the balcony scene and all of the interweaving that we got, I have no problem with long range storytelling obvs but make it make sense, you know? Like Tim used to do) so I kind of backed off a bit and was hoping Tim would come back for 5B, but uh...we'll see.

I do still think Buddie is the long range plan. There are way too many connections, nods, and signs pointing in that direction for them not to go there. At this point, if they don't do something with it at all, it doesn't really make sense narratively imho.

I mean what's the whole point of Eddie's jealousy with Taylor (or the framing here with Buck in the middle, then Eddie in the middle)?

youtube

What was the whole point of Eddie inching just that little bit closer? Or the whole slowdown that included Buck? (like I get it was traumatizing for both but come on) Why Buck mirroring Eddie's movements? Why did they have Ethan shoot Eddie when there were other firefighters around (again, I get it, the story, but they did this sequence specifically to show that the reason Eddie was attacked in the story is because he had arrived with Buck in the fire captain's truck, which is why he shoots at Buck after Eddie is down though Mehta knocks Buck down, then he shoots at the truck and it gets set on fire, then he shoots at Mehta in the captain's seat in the fire truck as they are trying to escape, then later on Ethan takes Bobby hostage knowing he's a fire captain but he waits to see his hat first which has the captain label on it before shooting Bobby)

youtube

Why the whole interrupting a romantic moment between Buck and Taylor when their relationship is forming, with them purposely showing Buck make the choice to take Ana's call rather than run after Taylor when she leaves? Why have Buck run in the hall to see Eddie and then that whole showing of Ana first and then reveal of Eddie? Why have Taylor acknowledge in dialogue to Buck that he didn't run after her?

youtube

Why have Buck and Ana never interact? Other than that one phone call that we only saw was one-sided? She interacted with Ravi who she just met for the first time, but not Buck, Eddie's best friend? Yeah, sure, this is meant for Buck to see more of Eddie hiding something (which is becoming clearer that the source of Eddie's anxiety is his relationship with Ana moving too fast) and the former is his best friend, but why NO interaction between his girlfriend and best friend who are standing right there? Why does Buck not even look at her? Like he's ignoring her existence even when she laughs at his joke about Ravi?

youtube

And last but not least, why this? Why was Abby's new relationship paralleled with Eddie in Buck's life? Why was Eddie slightly jealous of Abby? Why the line "No, I think he moved on a long time ago" from Abby and then the next scene is Buck and Eddie discussing Christopher going away to summer camp?

youtube

Tell me that, Tim and Kristen. How is that Band of Brothers or the best of friends which is exclusively platonic?

Um-hmm, I thought so. Make it make sense, people. My work is done here.

*pops back out*

#buddie #buck x eddie #evan x eddie #911 fox #911 spoilers #911 5b speculation #buddieposts #metaposts

89 notes · View notes

anevolutionarynecessity · 2 years

Text

Between Laura Neal declaring that the Killing Eve finale is “glorious,” Sandra Oh touting it as “victorious,” and now Sally Woodward Gentle claiming it’s “operatic,” it’s clear to me that all these women care about is stroking their own egos.

It’s especially apparent when you look at the quotations in full:

"I felt extremely emotional writing that episode and I hope that people will feel the same emotions watching it as I did writing it. And what felt really important for the finale was to instill a feeling of glory. That felt like a key word. We threw it around a lot when talking about the final episode. The final episode could be a hundred different things, but it had to be glorious." (Laura Neal, Entertainment Weekly)

“I thought it was quite victorious. And I think we stayed true to the characters and to each other.” (Sandra Oh, The New York Times)

Here's where executive producer Sally Woodward Gentle asks you to ask yourself a few questions: "Was that the final betrayal for Villanelle from Eve?" she says to EW. "Will they ever be reunited? And if they do get reunited, what would that ever look like?" (Sally Woodward Gentle, Entertainment Weekly)

These women hold tremendous creative power on this show. Obviously Laura Neal is showrunner and in the UK that also means she’s head writer; Sally Woodward Gentle and Sandra Oh are both executive producers. So what did they do with that power? They focused on writing a self-serving narrative instead of doing what’s best for the story, the characters, and crucially, the fans.

Like why else is there this insistence that the finale needs be so epic? Laura literally says they considered so many other options and at least 25 different endings-at some point a happy ending, a satisfying ending, an interesting ending, a good ending...all of that was discussed but then they consciously chose to not do any of those. Laura insists that it had to be glorious, and apparently this is along the lines of input from everyone, a “group effort”-including Sandra and Jodie.

Like for what? Why does it need to be glorious at all costs?

In fact, Killing Eve’s ending does not have to be glorious.

But what is victorious, as Sandra claims? Who is the finale victorious for? What on earth are Eve and Villanelle trying to achieve victory over considering their hostility towards each other all of Season 4? Is it...victory over each other?

It’s an especially troubling question given that Sally Woodward Gentle is emphasizing precisely betrayal. Apparently Villanelle can’t get over Eve’s betrayal (referring to jailing her in S4E3 and also presumably being with Hélène) and that is making it hard to envision what them together would look like-but this is the same redundant, homophobic rhetoric that Sally (and Sandra) has been pushing since Season 2, when Villaneve was a shared “delusion” by them and Emerald Fennell outright called it “impossible” and Sandra dismissed and gaslit the fans with her blatantly homophobic remarks: “[Villaneve] is not a focus or a message for the show. You guys are tricky because you want to make it into something… but it just isn’t. It’s not one thing or another.”

I cannot believe that now in the final season, in the final episode of the entire show, we are still somehow stuck with Villaneve not being allowed to evolve. That the women who hold so much creative power in the show keep emphasizing betrayal and incongruity and refusing to realize Villaneve.

I suppose the finale being “operatic” is fitting: grandiose, overly dramatic, and in keeping with the main themes of all operas: rife with betrayal, strife, and sacrifice.

Killing Eve’s finale didn’t need to be glorious. It just needed to be right.

#Killing Eve #VIllaneve #Season 4 #Villanelle #Jodie Comer #Sandra Oh #Eve Polastri #bbc #bbc america

44 notes · View notes

inawickedlittletown · 3 years

Text

Queerbaiting and Buddie

(word count: 1,900)

I keep saying that I don’t want to spend any more time on 9-1-1 meta or fic, but the events of this weekend made me open up a document where I had some unfinished meta and in light of the S4 finale airing tonight, I thought I might at least write this:

“Queerbaiting is a marketing technique for fiction and entertainment in which creators hint at, but then do not actually depict, same-sex romance or other LGBTQ representation. They do so to attract a queer or straight ally audience with the suggestion of relationships or characters that appeal to them, while at the same time attempting to avoid alienating other consumers.”

That is how Wikipedia defines queerbaiting. And I really feel like everyone needs to read that and then read it again and realize that what is happening on 9-1-1 with Buddie is NOT queerbaiting.

I don’t want to go into the long history of queerbaiting because we would be here all day and anyone that wants to do some research should go and do so. There are a lot of resources out there. Use them.

But the short of it is this: queerbaiting has a lot more to do with the way a show is promoted, with the way that anyone involved in the show talks about a queer ship, and with the show deliberately scripting scenes that hint at a relationship without any intention of following through. Expectations and wanting a queer ship to go canon and those expectations not being met do not alone equate to it being queerbaiting.

For any of us that have been around a long time there are a lot of perfect examples and if you compare Buddie to any of them, they are very different. I’ll name a few:

Merlin/Arthur

John Watson/Sherlock

Emma Swan/Regina

Derek/Stiles

Castiel/Dean Winchester (though they did go canon...barely)

Lena/Kara

Buck and Eddie do not fit into that list. Which isn’t to say that someday they could belong there, but I just do not believe that they will even if Buddie never becomes canon. And this all lies in how Buddie as a ship has been treated both on screen and off. I’ll break it down by season.

S2:

Eddie is very clearly introduced as a new character, a straight Army veteran with a disabled kid and family drama. He and Buck have immediate chemistry. We can’t deny that, or deny that from that first episode there are immediate sparks. Unintended sparks, but sparks nevertheless. And it is easy to tell that no one on the production team expected that and the story reflects that.

Yes a foundation for their friendship is formed and yet the season long story focuses on Eddie’s relationship with his estranged wife and Buck is dealing with his own growth after being left by Abby. Their friendship shines and their scenes are great but none of them suggest romance and there are actually a lot of episodes where Buck and Eddie barely interact in S2 aside from in the background or for small work related moments (this mostly happens after Shannon returns).

S2 does give us the first acknowledgement from the powers that be aka Tim Minear that they know what the fans have seen. This is why the elf scene exists, but it exists in a space where it’s a nod to the fans and not meant to do much more than that. The other moment is during the call with the livestreamer. But S2, places them completely and without question on a strong friendship.

S3:

We see a lot more conflict for Buck and Eddie in this season and we see how close and important they are to each other. Those are the two main things. That can be read as friendship easily and it’s a season where both Buck and Eddie deal with their pasts and in one way or another start to get closure while their friendship remains intact.

Yes there are some scenes that make us squint and go huh, wtf? (I’m looking at you kitchen scene), but narratively we also know that neither of these boys is ready for a real relationship with anyone, let alone each other. But we can bask in how close they are as well as how Christopher fits in into all of it.

But in S3 we are also introduced to Ana and we see the return of Abby. We also get to see that Buck and Eddie have become closer than ever and that the lawsuit only serves to highlight the importance that they both feel about having the other available to them. I’ll also quickly mention that Eddie Begins worked hard to highlight Buck’s devotion to Eddie.

S4:

Without considering the events of the finale (I am avoiding spoilers and know nothing about it or the speculation), we’ve seen Buck and Eddie both grow and get further closure on their past. This season has paralleled them well and their friendship has not faltered, they’re as close as ever.

The beginning of the season was heavily focused on Buck and we saw him grow as a person and begin to work on himself in a healthy way and we’ve seen Eddie be supportive of that.

We also have Ana to consider and her relationship with Eddie as well as the return of Taylor and yet the appearance of these women has not changed the Buck and Eddie dynamic. And I find it fascinating that Eddie beginning to date Ana, is the thing that prompted Buck to start dating. The parallels are all over the place but it is the strength of the friendship and the way they care so deeply about each other that remains whether that becomes romantic is still to be seen, but it could still go either way.

Off-screen by the end of S2, Tim Minear had already addressed Buddie by throwing in that elf scene in a wink/nudge fashion that said “I see you” and in the scene with the girl with the livestream with the comments. During S3 he tweeted about being frustrated by the fans demanding and being hostile and thinking that that would make him more likely to do what they want (I’m paraphrasing what I remember seeing). Tim has never once said that Buddie will happen or shut the door on the ship entirely, but he did say he did not want to engage in conversation about it because he doesn’t want to get into arguments with fans.

Oliver has always been enthusiastic about Buddie and has even said that he would be perfectly fine with it happening both a while ago and more recently in promo for S4. Conscious of queerbaiting and not wanting to give fans false hope, he has specifically said that he does not know if it will or won’t happen and that he wouldn’t speak on that as he’s not the one making that decision. His support for it happening does not mean he has any sway one way or the other. He’s said this a few times and even wrote a letter to the effect to make it clear to fans that the last thing he wants is to disappoint someone due to something he’s said.

All in all, it just isn’t a constructive environment for anyone working on the show to interact with fans on this topic because any time that they do, they get attacked by overly enthusiastic buddie shippers that in many ways are making everything worse.

In all of the interviews from Tim that I’ve seen, he has always been very quick to hint at what was coming up on the show in a way that at times has been misleading on purpose. The number one thing that comes to mind is early in S4 where Buck was said to get a new woman in his life. Tim absolutely made it out to seem like it was a girlfriend while knowing fully well that it was a therapist. This is an excellent example of what promoting and hinting is actually like. No one from this show has done that in regards to Buddie.

No one has gone out of their way to hint that it may happen in a way that excites the fans. And this is one of my main reasons for knowing that Buddie is not a queerbait. At no point in the life of the show so far has anyone used Buddie in a promotional way to bring in viewers. Because THAT was the whole point of queerbaiting in the past.

It was a way that some showrunners found to bring in a lot of viewers when they needed to up their numbers in order to show networks they were worth keeping around. Someone figured out that LGBTQ people wanted to see themselves represented so much so that they would tune in to anything that promised an LGBTQ character in some fashion. It was a tactic that worked well in the landscape of tv where there was so little LGBTQ content on mainstream media that anyone wanting it would latch onto anything. And then they just wouldn’t deliver on those relationships or characters. In 2021, that is not the world we live in any longer.

In today’s tv landscape there is so much to watch and so much to pick from and diversity has grown, it is celebrated. Queer characters are well represented as are queer relationships and queer stories. The times are different. A while back I was listening to a podcast (Bait: a queerbaiting podcast) and something I found interesting was how the hosts both agreed that in today’s tv landscape there is no more real queerbait and that we won’t easily find anything like the ships I mentioned above. I think I agree more with this than I expected to, because I do think that it exists in some spaces, but it definitely isn’t what it used to be. This is a good thing.

Specific to 9-1-1, this is a show that has that diversity and that isn’t afraid of tackling that diversity and giving us interesting and nuanced perspectives and stories embracing that. We have characters of color, women in positions of power, a F/F relationship, two multi-racial relationships, a disabled character, other queer characters including a M/M relationship. There is so much in this show that embraces diversity and that embraces the reality of what the world looks like. To call it queerbait is to disrespect everything else that this show is and has done and the hard storylines that have been tackled that we would not have seen on tv ten years ago.

And I get that Buddie would be another breakthrough. It would be a novel way to tell a queer story, and it would be amazing if it were to happen. The set up is there, but it isn’t fully realized, and Buck and Eddie can still be read as just friends if we take off the shipping goggles. But it also isn’t queerbait or likely to become queerbait and people have to stop calling it that.

What Buddie resembles is one of the many unintended slow burn ships that have frustrated viewers in many forms across fandoms and we just have to go along for the ride and maybe it will happen. Or maybe it won’t. But if we know anything about relationships on tv, it is that a lot of the fun comes from the journey, even if the destination is good too.

#911 fox #buddie #911 meta #911 on fox #buddie meta #buddie is not queerbaiting #long post #this is almost 2k long

227 notes · View notes

yawchannel · 3 years

Text

INTERVIEW: The Falcon And The Winter Soldier for SFX Magazine (Anthony Mackie and Sebastian Stan Part) (Issue 337, February 24th, 2021)

By Tara Bennett

WING MAN

Anthony Mackie is Sam Wilson / Falcon

SFX: You’ve admitted that initially you weren’t sure on the idea of doing an MCU Series. Why?

ANTHONY: To be honest, I’ve had trepidation from the beginning. I was really afraid of the idea. Working on so many Marvel projects, and seeing the end result and the effect that they have on people, I was afraid that the quality of the production would be taken down for television. I was afraid that you can’t do things on television that you can do in theatres.

Seeing people’s reactions to Avengers: Infinity War and Endgame in the theatres, and hearing the connection that the audience members have with these characters... that’s every actor’s dream, to affect an audience and expose them to a different way of looking at culture and the world around us. I was really afraid that I wouldn’t have that opportunity to step out on that ledge like the actors before me had.

But once we talked, and once they brought on Malcolm and Kari, I knew it was going to be something different. Kari is a phenomenal leader, and Malcolm is an amazing writer. And Kevin promised me that it wasn’t going to be different. He’s not going to tarnish the Marvel brand by trying to just blow out as much content as he could. And I trusted him on that. They haven’t let me down yet, so I just went along for the ride on faith of their past work. And I was really pleasantly surprised by how great everything turned out.

SFX: Steve was an integral part of both Sam and Bucky’s lives. How does the show explore his absence?

ANTHONY: With Sam and Bucky, the idea of losing Steve looms heavily in their day-to-day-life. Captain America - not just a moniker, but the person - was a huge influence on both of them. The idea of the moniker is not as important as the person that they lost. Their whole goal, and their whole focus, is to honour Steve, because he left them with such a huge task to pick up where he left off. Just the weight of the shield with no Steve leads us to believe that there might not be another Captain America. There will never be another Steve Rogers, so for the two of them, the idea of the Captain America moniker is more of a burden than a blessing. They really try and allow that to be an influence of the legacy that he left, and how they can keep that legacy alive and support him - while also missing him and being very sad that he’s not around any more.

SFX: Will we see more of Sam’s regular life?

ANTHONY: We get to see more of them in their surroundings, their personal life, with people who influence their life day-to-day: family members, friends, co-workers. You got a little bit of it with Sam when Steve went to the VA when they first met. But now you really get to see his twists and turns and where exactly he fits in his nine-to-five, as opposed to him just sitting around waiting for Cap to call. That was one of the biggest pitches that Nate and Kevin gave to me that really intrigued me and excited me about this story.

SFX: Exploring Sam’s big choice when it comes to taking up Cap’s shield encompasses so many real-life issues, including race. Was Malcom a solid partner in conveying that?

ANTHONY: You know, it wasn’t just Malcolm and I. What was really interesting was Kari [Skogland] and Zoie [Nagelhout] were very local in the idea of who this man was, and what he was going to mean to the society that we were presenting him to. It’s funny, with Kari being a white Canadian woman, and Zoie being a white American woman, they had such strong parts of opinion and such interesting ways of seeing this character that were way more aggressive than anything I could have imagined. Their perspective and bravery, as two women leading the charge, to show the situation that this character was being thrust into in the world that he lived in, was very humbling. I always felt support. It always felt like there were people around me who were paying attention to what we were saying as a show.

BUCKY STAR

Sebastian Stan is Bucky Barnes / The Winter Soldier

SFX: After Endgame, how did you feel overall, about staying in the MCU?

SEBASTIAN: At the end of Endgame it was sort of strange and emotional. At the time, it was the 10-year anniversary, so everything felt like an ending, of sorts, even though we recognised that there was probably going to be more to it. But it was great to be able to have a discussion about the future.

SFX: Who at Marvel Studios initially pitched the idea of this series to you?

SEBASTIAN: I sat with Kevin [Feige] initially. And then with Nate Moore, who I had done Civil War and Winter Soldier with, and had an unbelievable experience. I think I was a little nervous, because part of me felt like “I’m not even sure if I know what’s left to be explored with the character”. But we actually discovered so much more. And I feel like the character now is coming off in such a different, deeper and more complex way than we’ve seen him. I thought I had explored the character, as he was, enough, but we actually had only scratched the surface. What we’re able to do with him in this series is just on such a deeper emotional level, and we didn’t have that opportunity before.

SFX: What was most interesting to you about doing a series?

SEBASTIAN: The idea of exploring this character now, separately, from Steve Rogers and from that storyline, and putting him in the world, and giving him an opportunity to really, truly, have to face who he is - everything about that was exciting. And the idea of working with Anthony was exciting, because I know we have something special and we’ve never gotten a chance to explore it.

SFX: Who are Sam and Bucky to one another in this series?

SEBASTIAN: They both despise each other equally! [Laughs] I mean, there’s some truth to that. But it’s also a discovery for both of them to realise that they actually have much more in common than they thought. They come at it from different backgrounds. But essentially, they’re both two people trying to find their new identity, and that really has nothing to do with Steve Rogers. Steve Rogers is much more the catalyst, like the event that sets off the bomb that causes both of them to go, “Okay, that happened. Now, let me deal with these things”. I think it’s about them figuring out that they need each other much more than they want to accept.

SFX: With no Steve to lean on, what is Bucky focused on?

SEBASTIAN: It’s a bit of re-educating that happens at the same time. He’s learning a lot about Sam, and he’s also learning about the world, because it’s a very different world than when we was last “James Bucky Barnes” in the ‘50s. He’s always got to deal with the shadow that’s following him. Now it’s more of a question of, how does he take what he’s learned and apply it for himself, going forward? How do you go out there in 2021 and function, knowing what he knows and what he’s bee through? And also, how do you do it without somebody who was a brother by his side, who was a staple of strength, or familiarity? You take away even the last comfort zone - what does he have? That’s what the show is about for him.

SFX: Why do you feel that Bucky has been able to retain fan sympathy during his dark arc?

SEBASTIAN: He felt much more reachable and reachable than other characters, perhaps because of the arcs of trying to cope with the past, or getting over some trauma, or PTSD. And his level of finding oneself again, redefining yourself, your morals, your values, who you are, what you believe in, the challenges that you have - in terms of accepting the world a certain way - understanding that maybe how you grew up and what you’ve learned isn’t going to always help you find your path. You’re going to have to maybe go against the things that you’ve been used to. Those are all things about this character that are very interesting.

There are two more interviews with Showrunner Malcolm Spellman and Director Kari Skogland included in the issue!

If you'd like to get a copy, SFX Magazine Issue 337 is available to purchase both physically and digitally worldwide! https://magazinesdirect.com/mobile/az-single-issues/6937139/sfx-magazine-single-issue.thtml

#anthony mackie #sebastian stan #sam wilson #bucky barnes #sambucky #stackie #falcon and winter soldier #the falcon and the winter soldier #tfatws #disney plus

372 notes · View notes

talkingtea · 2 years

Note

trust me anon, there are definitely people asking for more season unfortunately 😭 i’ve seen people asking for season 10 (this including iris/wa fans), and saying that it’s “likely” because s8 was only supposed a one year renewal but look where we are now so just bc grant said s9 will be the last, it’s not 100% set in stone. all valid points, but it doesn’t mean that just bc he can, he should. if this show lasts until 2024/s10 i think someone needs to go undercover and find out wth is going on bts, because you can convince me that something shady isn’t happening. what illegal things are they covering up 🤨

And honestly, at this point, why would anyone want it to drag on? Seriously. The writing is terrible, and we’re not just talking bad, we’re talking about ruin comic book storylines bad. The CGI is embarrassing and yet instead of focusing on doing really well on smaller, more manageable things Eric wants to have the biggest and most cartoonish looking villains ever. The showrunner clearly has no respect or just downright dislikes the main couple to the point he’s dismantling them in a way that would make every racist fanboy proud but then he tries to cover it up by sprinkling a ‘lightning rod’ mention in there every six to ten episodes. And finally 90% of the actors are checked out and don’t even bother to hide it anymore. The only ones that seem genuinely excited are the ones, like Brandon and Kayla, who haven’t been around long, or the Danis who have both gotten increased attention and storylines they don’t deserve and people don’t actually want to see because of Eric who apparently is determined to torpedo this show.

20 notes · View notes

lovecolibri · 2 years

Note

SaL anon here friend, coming back from my travels to a striking sense of deja vu in the form of a showrunner apparently completely ignorant of how character development works or just human interactions in general. Seriously did CAM change her name because after S2 no one would hire her and somehow ended up at Fox?? It would explain the disturbing resemblance between TayKay and that other show's loathed character. At least the 911 writeers have talent to write themselves out of the 5a hellscape.

Hello! I hope you had pleasant and enjoyable travels! And bestie this week has been a ROLLERCOASTER, with that interview being a huge drop on the excitement scale for a lot of people. Talk about badly timed interviews.

I am cackling over that comparison because I've had that discussion with a few people 🤣🤣🤣 It really is deja vu over here with showrunners trying to gaslight fans and say they aren't seeing the things they think they're seeing, and that they never intended things to come across the way they did, even though a) literally any reasonable person could have predicted how things would come across, and b) everything gets screened and reviewed and edited, and you can't tell me that NO ONE along the way mentioned how things looked. So either these women are exceptionally bad at their jobs, or they knew exactly what they were doing, did it anyway, and then lied about it. Either way, not a good look!

And seriously, the similarities between the reporter and the bartender? The way both of them talked down to their boyfriends and ignored and invalidated their feelings? How selfish they both are? At least 911 has the decency to make sure fans KNOW she's awful and allow the other characters to (for the most part) react in a normal way to her being awful instead of trying to pretend she isn't by having the characters falling all over themselves to praise how wonderful and beautiful she is and how great of a friend she is while showing her being the exact opposite 🤷🏻‍♀️ (I still hold that Athena should have been allowed to be angry and not want to invite her over after the treasure hunt, but Bobby talks her down because he's the forgiving kind and Athena can hold a (very understandable) grudge, but otherwise reactions have been understandable and they also just....don't talk about her much which also makes sense.)

It was nice to get some vindication from the cast saying 5a felt like working on a different show (getting rid of Chim was a Mistake, but replacing his screen time with the reporter was pretty unforgivable), but seeing how engaged and excited they all are about 5b does give me *some* hope. I mean, we all saw how that turned out on the other show with the cast being excited because they got to do fun acting stuff vs how the final product was put together so 🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️. At least 911 addressed how Chim and Maddie being gone were affecting Buck and Hen instead of pretending they just didn't exist, and it looks like they'll be addressing all that as well in 5b so there is lots to look forward to!

I do wonder at them releasing that article three days before the premier but it is what it is! And this is why shows have teams of people working on them! No one person can see or understand or predict every angle or tell every story, so at the end of the day, it doesn't matter if SHE gets it, because a) she doesn't have the final say (thank goodness) and b) there are other writers, and directors, and actors working with the directors, and set and costume designers, and editors, and music departments, that are ALL working together to tell these stories and make these scenes. And the story they are collectively working to put on our screens? That's a lot more telling than one writers opinion on what's going on. AND, the audience response to the story she pushed to tell in 5a that sidelined Chim and focused on the creep and his gaggle of supporters and the copaganda around that whole thing, and on the reporter instead of any of the other mains or secondary mains (like Ravi)? Well, that was all pretty telling too, especially given the HARD shift it looks like they are making in 5b to get back to what people love about the show. 911 isn't perfect, but they are pretty good at adapting and course correcting when they get the chance (unlike SOME shows), and the love the cast and crew and everyone puts into the show is what makes it SO comforting and re-watchable.

I think we are in for a ride!

(Also, I am really excited to see what songs we can pull from these new episodes to talk about! It's SUCH a bummer that Fear is an instrumental song, but I'm eyeing things like Silhouettes if Eddie's trauma ties back to his parents at all, but Aperture, and Page 28 are high up there for both Maddie and Eddie in this back half. I can't wait! Also looking at the TK stuff coming up in Lone Star and getting big Uneven Odds vibes. We're so close now! I'm not letting her steal my joy!)

#my sweet nonnie friends #sleeping at last anon #911 #911 spoilers #buddie #anti taylor kelly #roswell nm #anti maria delcua #it's hard not to be upset when someone ostensibly in charge talks about you like you're stupid or just seeing things #but it's good to remember she doesn't control *everything* and some of the things she said directly contradict what tim has said #and tim contradicts himself all the damn time #ANYWAY #good luck coming into this mess at this point bestie!#but i feel in my bones we are gonna have some good song moments coming up!

9 notes · View notes

scottiedeux · 2 years

Text

If you like Clexa you will like CaitVi

In this essay i will...

Okay but seriously through strap in as I've wanted to articulate this for a while now and I GOT THOUGHTS okay

Many of my followers follow me because of this blog's Clexa obsession (which isn't going anywhere btw) and maybe some because of Gentleman Jack. But of course if you've noticed lately there has been an abundance of Caitlyn x Vi posts from Arcane: League of Legends

This post is essentially me saying - if you like Clexa, you will like Caitvi

and here is why:

First off - why is Clexa so special?

We just passed 6 years since Lexa’s untimely death on The 100 and this fandom is STILL going strong. Over 12,800+ fics on AO3 tagged wth Clarke Griffin/Lexa and still more and more being written, an active (considering 6 years old) fandom, a CLEXACON which is maybe the largest official wlw fans gathering I’m aware of?

The Clexa fandom is like, somewhere between regular ships and those huge fandoms that go on for decades (Xena Warrior Princess, Harry Potter, Star Trek). Like I do not doubt excellent fic and fanart will continue to be created into a full decade after Lexa’s canonical passing

Why did this pairing resonate so much? I’ve often asked his of myself, because while I get into some other ships and read some other fics time to time, I genuinely always just came back to my Clexa fics (... until CaitVi, we’ll get into that). Really I’m just processing my own thoughts here, but maybe some will find it helpful.

Fully Realized Characters - Clarke and Lexa are fully realized characters with strong motivations that have nothing to do with one another. They exist in world where being wlw is not a problem nor what is keeping them apart. It’s their responsiblities and duties which logically exist in The 100 universe that is creating tension depsite their obvious attraction and respect for one another. Half (probably more) of the paltry amount of wlw shows we get are focused on the wlw relationship and our shitty homophobic world provides the tension as characters struggle with coming out, unsupportive parents, unsure if partner feels the same, etc. And yeah that drama is great, but something that sets Clexa apart and that I LOVE is that this is not where the drama comes from. Not even one little bit.

Interesting World. Well, i mean, until the showrunner shat on all the best concepts of The 100 world (I stopped watching after Season 3, but they apparently go off planet or some shit ? the hell?) But up to Season 3, Clexa was happening in a world that had stuff going on that was good television. I remember tons of articles out around season 2/season 3 saying The 100 was one of the best sci-fi shows on TV at the time. And it WAS. We got our wlw pairing not in a shitty throwaway world but in a fleshed out interesting one.

Canon relationship. Clexa is not a tease, this relationship really happened on the show. All the supporting characters knew about it and reference it. Our fandom was not stretching out moments - up until Lexa’s death we were eating full on meals of wlw canon content between Clarke and Lexa. Season 2 finale was basically as major of a moment as it was BECAUSE of the relationship between these two.

Chemistry - these two had it. Partially the actors, partially editing and script, we felt those moments ya’ll. I don’t even have to elaborate.

I’m probably missing some other items here - reblog with more if I’m missing anything glaring!

Okay so now that’s addressed -

Let’s talk Caitlyn and Vi from Arcane League of Legends.

Fully Realized Characters - Caitlyn and Vi have full storylines and motivations that have nothing to do with one another. They exist in world where being wlw is not a problem nor what is keeping them from getting together. It’s their responsiblities and duties which logically exist in the Arcane universe that is creating tension depsite their obvious attraction and respect for one another.

Interesting World - Runeterra is a world setting with depth. The Piltover & Undercity dynamics are fleshed out and interesting. Caitlyn and Vi exist within it and their relationship is impacted by it.

Canon Relationship - This point may be where CaitVi actually has a leg up on Clexa. Canonically in League of Legends we know that in the future Caitlyn becomes Sheriff of Piltover and Vi becomes her deputy. Arcane is a prequel show - so we ACTUALLY KNOW that both characters will be alive in the future. League of Legends lore doesn’t officially acknowledge that the two are romantically linked (although its implied) but don’t have fear. The Arcane showrunners have preeeeety much confirmed CaitVi as canon, explicitly talking about season 2 and even talking directly about what was done in season 1 to emphasize where the relationship is heading.

Chemistry - The animators are giving us everything we want. Longing looks, hand touches, extended moments together. And the voice actors are delivering

To me, CaitVi has been the first ship in SIX YEARS that has managed to wrestle me away from Clexa as my primary wlw pairing that I’m obssessed with. And really, when I break it down it’s because its the first wlw ship I’ve encountered that touches on all the things I love about Clexa. Lucky for us - Arcane was a success and more seasons are to come. If you follow this Tumblr for Clexa - maybe check out CaitVi?

Anyways, who asked for this? No One i just had to get these thoughts out mmmkay

“So what’ll it be? Clexa or Caitvi or BOTH?”

#clexa #clexakru #clarke x lexa #caitvi #violyn #piltover's finest #caitlyn x vi #vicait #myrandomassthoughts

7 notes · View notes