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bitimdrake · 1 year

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Do you have fic recs by any chance? You really seem to have a lot of comics knowledge so I trust that you know what’s accurate to the source material and what’s not :)

you know I've gotten a few asks about this and I never quite manage to answer them, because I'm always convinced that I will somehow end up with a perfect and complete rec list if only I wait to reply just a little longer.

SO I'm gonna try cutting myself off at the head this time, and not giving you a prefect list by any means, but at least giving you an answer:

Here is a collection that I'm slowly forming for fics that really feel like they're actually based off comics. It is currently very small and people are welcome to bookmark to it if they find other very comics-based fics, but it's a start.

And a couple random recs as I scroll through my personal bookmarks:

Redrawing the Lines (11k) is fantastic Batman Reborn era Dick & Tim & Damian fic, and it continues as a series after.

also the second before the other shoe drops (8k) about the same trio. AU where Damian makes a murder attempt in a subtler way--but most important, is not demonized by a narrative that instead gives everyone a fair shake.

will we ever get to the other side? (5k) Dick & Tim in a very specific era where Dick's life is falling apart and filled with trauma, and Tim has just been hit with a huge smack of grief and also trauma, and neither is at their best but they're trying.

Everything by @silverwhittlingknife is ideal Dick & Tim content, and all deeply rooted in comics. I will call out:

The Return (11k), which is Dick's pov of Tim coming back to Gotham after Brucequest

only you will have stars that can laugh (9k) which is sad and loney but also sweet on Christmas

Red Letter Day (42k, wip) in which god Dick is trying his fucking best to hold it together okay. (aka everyone is kind of prickly, Dick is stressed, there's a Mysterious Wednesday of unclear importance, and I love them sm)

@flybynightwing has equally comics-based and also absolutely fascinating and compelling fics. I'll call out:

How Far Love Goes (99k) a case fic that draws in everyone in the bat family, with a tilt towards Dick (although the Steph is also fantastic), and turns into a reflection on Bruce as a parent.

goal-oriented mindset (5k) Catalina's pov, meeting Dick again well after everything went down. Subject may not be for you, but I find it SO interesting and roll it around and around in my head. (And it is of the very very rare selection of actually comics-based fics about that arc.)

It's a Wonderful Earth-218 (7k). A thoroughly depressed Dick goes to a world where he was never born, it's a wonderful life-style.

(And carrying on with various authors again:)

Hate and Love are Two Sides of the Same Coin (5k + 13k sequel) every member of his family is forced to say what they like least about Dick. The fic makes no secret of its thoroughly contrived premise and doesn't particularly care to justify it either, but still comes out with great characterization and relationship reflections.

Mikey Dies At The End (4k), outsider pov centered around Jason as the Red Hood, which is so very confident in its characterization of him and has zero considerations given to fanon and it's an excellent read.

A Meditation on Railroading (24k), a Tim-centric fic that deals heavily with his relationship with his dad. This one is not really canon at all, but it is good, and its version of the relationship is compelling.

Young Justice Visit the Suez Canal (3k) look this one is pure 90s-style Young Justice humor. We're here for a good time.

Aaand I know there are many more good fics, but I have run out of steam and I am trying so so hard to remember that some answer is better than no answer. Though I am very sorry to all my beloved writers & mutuals who have written excellent comics fic.

Anyway final tip is when you find an author who knows what they're talking about, go through all their fics, and then go through all their bookmarks.

#*#ask #anon #*dc #dc #fic recs #also a tip: just exclude 'dick is a bad brother'#ignore anything that says damian is inherently evil and bad #and know that 'bruce wayne is a good parent' is lmao so fanon but you should still enjoy it if you want to

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batfamfucker · 1 year

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Tell the truth comic fans challenge. When's the last time you read a comic and how many have you actually read?

P.S. This isn't me being gatekeepy btw I'm being genuine because I'm gonna be honest I've probably only actually read about five series and every thing else I've gotten from movies/series, online, or fanon. I know all the important events. Have I actually read them? No because my ADHD just wouldn't. And I can't be assed having to read important events if it's in a shit run by a bad writer.

#Also ngl I was determined to read from the very start but. I would not have the time for that in any life so lmao #I have read quite a few of the early Batman comics and do actually hope to read as many of his as possible #But I have not actually sat and read all of the Batfam origins yet tho I intend to #I know them all and I've seen the panels just never actually sat down and gone through it all #I also have read a lot of the Golden Era Batman and Superman team up comics where they basically act like parents #Taking Dick out on family day trips. It's a fun read tbh #And back when I was a early teen and couldn't afford comics I watched YouTuber who would read them for you and tell you about them/show you #So I've read half of Batman Eternal from that but he stopped uploading vids about it which made me really sad lmao #So I need to get around to reading the rest myself/rereading it because it's been a while #I think I liked the story but wouldn't canonise it in my mind #I also read a bit of Suicide Sqaud that way I think? So that too #I totally don't pirate read Injustice #I like it but I think some of it is iffy. But that's the case with comics in general #Batman: Wayne Family Adventures is the only I actually keep up with #Probably because it's more accessible but also because it's the kind of comic I've wanted about the Batfam for ages #There's room for improvement and I would like to see how one similar to that style would be made like. In the fully canon mainstream comics #Because I'm aware it's very fanon/fan servicey but honesty after all the DC chaos we deserve it. But I would like to see more family #Urban Legends is really good. But Idk. I'm very particular about my vision lmao #Let me be a writer is what I'm saving. Or make a competant TV show *Glares at Titans*#Titans is good but God do they fucking butcher Jason and Bruce. I am sick of DC TV and film adaptions doing the Batfam dirty #Like. The animated movies #Tim just is never a thing ever. Why #Titans does have him and I like that. But I haven't watched that season ngl because I don't like how they write Bruce #Like. He doesn't. Look for cjild soldiers bruh. I'm disappointed with Titans because they coulda done so well #But Bruce is far too old and they made Dick almost murderous with him and they fucked up Jason. I haven't seen Tim's-#-Characterisation yet but I'm scared to at this point #Alfred must be fucking dead because he would be SO OLD if Bruce is already like 60 bruh. No offence to the actor but yeah.#Chella Man is the best thing about the show. Tbf I adore the cast other than Bruce. But everyone is just so OOC and it doesn't-#Stick to the comics at all #Idk it just. Isn't it lmao

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laufire · 28 days

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And you know I always want to hear more about the YJ WIP, so Young Justice: Fenix

I'm going to switch things up a bit here. For those who might not know, that's how I call a Jason-centric, longfic WIP of mine set in the Young Justice (cartoon) universe. It takes all four seasons as canon (it cherry picks re: the tie-in comics), and mixes some of my headcanons regarding Jason's character in it with some mainline comics canon that I don't think would apply to the show, but that serve my purposes. AND it throws in some dcau canon (but making it my own) for good measure.

Though the story is largely about Jason, the collision with his old life and the reunion with his family, it's told in multiple POVs. Mainly to advance the plot and not just write a navel-gazing Jason angst fest xDD. I thought I'd list the characters that get to have POVs, and tell you a bit of what they'll be bringing to the story. In order of appearance:

Talia al Ghul. The story opens with her! She's the main plot-mover, because she's in the thick of the actual conflict (vs. the new league of shadows + the light), preparing and moving pieces so things go the way they're supposed to. The dynamic between her and Jason is shaping up to be interesting too: it's different from how I see their comics relationship, AND different from the fanon mother-and-son dynamic. There's some of that, maybe, but due to circumstances and the large gap between him and Damian in this canon (nearly 20 years), he funcitons more as a parental figure than a brotherly one... cue spousification añsdklfjasdf. It's been fun to write.

Jason Todd. He's the main guy. He's going through it xD (also, this version of him didn't go into a pit, so he's healed the slow way and that's had an effect on him.

Dick Grayson. He's running point on The Superhero Side of things, as a leader, as a link between various sets of the plot, etc. His relationship with Jason is still forming. They are closer in age and (in my head) they actually shared time and space in the manor, as brothers, which makes some things easier and something more complicated. He also offers a counterpoint to Bruce (next one). In every instance we see into Bruce's head, we see that (although he rarely exteriorises it), he thinks about Jason. Dick doesn't, he has a mental block the size of a country. Until things come crashing down... very close to his birthday...

Bruce Wayne. He's there to suffer! I say this with affection because yj!Bruce is better than most Bruces but. I enjoy putting him through the ringer. I'm giving him angst about Jason, I'm giving him angst about Damian, I'm giving him angst about this-mysterious-red-hooded-guy... even about Alfred, and about other things I still haven't ironed out completely lmao.

Damian al Ghul. He's at the center of the conflict, what our mains are protecting above all. He's six years old. My goal is to strike a balance with his character, because otoh, yj offers a different version of the al Ghuls, which would change things, but I do love comics!Damian and the edges he comes with. His relationship with Jason tugs at my heartstrings.

Dinah Lance. She has a much smaller part than the ones above, but she has a couple of POV sections of her own. One of the first scenes I wrote for this fic was a therapy session with Bruce shortly after Jason's death, and I didn't want her to be in the fic *just* for that lol. She offers a little insight into the Senior League, into how (what in this world is) a very public child hero's death affected things, etc.

Cassandra Wu San. I simply find this (very, very different) version of Cass fascinating and wanted in her head. I wanted to show her perspective on the other bats, Barbara (who hasn't gotten a POV herself because this version of the character is simply more interesting through Cass's eyes) and Bruce in particular. And I also thought that, timeline-wise, it'd fit that she might've met Jason as the Red Hooded Ninja if they were in the League of Shadows around the same time. So that's fun.

Artemis Crock. I wanted someone on the original team to have a POV as well, and she was the immediate best choice. She can help move the plot on that side (here she's the new team leader), she has insight on the Shadows as well (Jade is also around btw!), I imagine as the teammate who Jason would've connected with the quickest, and we get to see some of her conflicting feelins re: an old teammate being resurrected... and not being the one she misses the most.

Tim Drake. He caused me a lot of headaches because a.) the show version of Tim is really... just there and b.) I started properly planning the fic at a time where I wasn't feeling particularly kind towards comics!Tim. Luckily for my peace of mind I got over that lol, but even then, that period made it so I put extra effort with this character and the result is that he has his own parcel of the plot LOL. Featuring undercover mission, archeology digs, among other treats for him. His dynamic with Jason is complicated (Jason has a lot of feelings that are really more about himself than about Tim, but Tim is sort of in the way of dealing with those lol), added with the fact that when they meet, Jason is still keeping his identity under wraps and he can't air all of that out... yet xD

So basically: the Waynes (though Tim wasn't ever adopted in this version of canon, in my head; his step-mother is still around) or inner batfam circle + Talia + one member of the team + one member of the JL.

ask me about my wips!

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scintillyyy · 11 months

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the tim asian headcanon thing is - from MY train of thought - more about the settings of his comics and the themes of his skills than anything. tiger mom is a fairly NEW fanon thing. but 90's tim and even beyond (nu52 excluded of course, which is why i think everyone is confused by the asian tim fanon thing) had a lot of training by asian teachers, went to asian settings, faced a lot of asian villains, and uses an asian weapon to this day. i think that all tracks with making him asian american, or mixed as it were.

i also think (again, mostly because nu52 tim is so boring) that ppl take OFFENSE to this canon headcanon characterization because they see him as this rich white kid who's literally the most boring robin in nu52 and doesn't deserve accolades or consideration or solos or to be racebent in fanon (🙄 as if you need permission).

the reality is that he's like upper middle in background at best in his parent's peak wealth and then his dad lost all that wealth and he existed way before nu52 and nu52 just sucks and newer fans should maybe get a clue and stop assuming things about a fandom they literally just entered 🫠

those are all super fair points!! (unfortunately, i think he's canonically white myself given i can think of at least two times he either refers to himself as white or someone else refers to him as white). but completely honestly, i really don't have a strong opinion and think people should do as they like lmao (you're right, nobody needs permission!), tim is the maximally relatable robin for a reason. his actual canon issues with family/his dad in his 90s series? to me, those are pretty transcendent and could apply to anyone. that's why i like tim so much <3

yea, i didn't really think tiger-mom janet came out of asian tim headcanons, to me it's just an extension of poor timmy left all alone in big old empty drake manor his parents don't love him and will punish him for asking them for any affection at all (which i do remember starting to gain traction around the time of red robin) and to expand on that the only time they ever talk to him is to make sure he only gets 100% on his schoolwork and is in clubs that will impress their rich people friends (also, bonus, janet can barely remember what day her own son was born on/how old he is because that doesn't matter, only that he's the ~perfect drake heir~)

i will say, though, at his peak wealth i do think they were probably more upper class than upper middle. they had a million dollar plane! jack was able to buy the house next to bruce wayne's outright in cash! ....that's slightly more than anyone i know in the upper middle class's ability. i do think that the majority of their wealth was tied up in how the company was doing specifically--when it was good they had access to very good company perks such as the plane! tim was able to attend boarding school while they traveled a ton! but when the company went under, they lost all their perks and were immediately sent down to the middle class to the point where jack mentioned that the couldn't keep tim's car because they didn't have extra cash in the budget to pay for the insurance premiums on it. so they were wealthy but didn't necessarily have a good nest egg in case of emergency. this would also track with tim's canonical relationship with wealth in that tim is actually very, very aware of what things cost (he's not "what could a banana cost, ten dollars? sort of wealthy"), which would make sense if as a child he was exposed to his parents worrying/fighting about company financials on bad years. to me at least lol.

#scintilly ask tag #annakin-skywanker

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bigskydreaming · 4 years

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One of the biggest problems with refusing to give much acknowledgment to young Dick Grayson as having been very traumatized rather than just ‘cheered up within a couple of months after coming to the Manor, all on his own, cuz Dick’s just like that, now on with the cute Bruce and young Dick Feels with the occasional light angst of a nightmare’.....

Is fandom is really missing out on a ton of opportunities to actually explore the idea of Good Dad Bruce Wayne that so many people try to instead superimpose on his shittier moments.

Because yeah, there’s a lot of cute headcanons and fics out there about how adorable Dick was as a kid and he and Bruce being so close and Bruce being like the ideal parent and guardian to Dick.....

But like....its easy to be or at least come across as an ideal parent and guardian....when your kid is this happy, plucky, cart-wheeling spirited boy always running around full of light and laughter.

And that’s not who Dick was, when he first came to the Manor!

He was a traumatized eight to ten year old, who’d had his whole world ripped away and replaced entirely with an unfamiliar one he didn’t want.

So many people cite the line about how he didn’t want Bruce to replace his dad and that’s why Bruce waited so long to adopt him....but follow that thread back to its source.

You think grieving, has-every-reason-in-the-world-not-to-trust-strange-adults, tiny little spitfire Dick Grayson was graceful about accepting Bruce’s attempts at comfort at first, when all he wanted was his parents back, when he likely didn’t want hugs from this weird rich guy he didn’t understand, because all he wanted were hugs from his mom and dad?

Everyone’s so quick to point out adult Dick Grayson’s poor coping mechanisms and repression and tendencies to self-isolate and attempt to deal with his various traumas in less than ideal ways.....

You think those behaviors all just popped into existence for the first time on his eighteenth birthday? That he didn’t do similar things with his very early traumas, because those tendencies had already formed or were in the process of forming because of those very traumas?

My point is...

Dick Grayson was not an easy child when he first came to the Manor.

He couldn’t have been. No one could, in his shoes, and anyone who appeared otherwise would just be faking.

And hey, doesn’t that sound an awful lot like Dick Grayson behavior too?

So, the pun-slinging, mischievous, fun-loving sprite that Dick Grayson was as Robin and in his and Bruce’s most heart warming canon stories....

Was either a total cover-up job plastered over all of Dick’s trauma from the very start, meaning none of it ever got addressed or was something he ever moved past to any degree....

Or else, that happy, laughing young Dick Grayson was who he BECAME. After an actual hard, angsty, angry, occasionally self-isolating, irrational and otherwise Dick Grayson-esque road to recovery.

BECAUSE OF BRUCE.

THAT’S what this fandom is missing more than anything, if you ask me. Actual looks at the HARD early times with Dick and Bruce, where this young, inexperienced, totally in over his head Bruce Wayne who’s fast realizing he doesn’t have as much insight into this grieving child as he naively first assumed...

FIGURES IT OUT.

Day by day.

BY DOING THE WORK.

By being there for this kid through all the ups and downs. By refusing to be pushed away and shut out no matter how many times and how many ways Dick tried. By passing every test put before him by the untrusting kid betrayed by the system nominally there to protect him, who needed PROOF that there were still good people out there, still good adults, and that Bruce was one of them, that Dick could trust him, count on him, HE WASN’T GOING TO LEAVE HIM, no matter if Dick tried giving him reason to because he figured it was going to happen anyway and he wanted to get it over with.

Nothing frustrates me more - and you all know a lot frustrates me, lmao - than this implicit INSISTENCE so many people have that a young, traumatized orphan was the magic nightlight that came into Bruce’s life and transformed its drab darkness into a Disney scene as he smiled again for the first time since his parents died, at the sound of laughter....from this...young...traumatized...freshly orphaned and mistreated kid.

I’m sorry.

What?

Like, this is what it all traces back to. This is where the idea that Dick is never traumatized himself, or at least never enough so that it prevents him from doing what he’s really there to do, which is brighten everyone else’s life....

BECAUSE SO MANY PEOPLE ACT LIKE HE SOMEHOW MANAGED TO DO THAT FOR BRUCE, EVEN IN THE RELATIVE IMMEDIATE AFTERMATH OF HIS FAR MORE RECENT TRAUMA.

NO.

That is not how that worked, lmao!

That was never going to be an option for how that worked!

When you think that a recently traumatized orphan is the magic cure-all for the FIFTEEN YEARS PAST trauma of a grown adult....

SOMETHING IS NOT CLICKING THERE.

So much of fandom has it completely backwards, I maintain, and so much of what we complain about and criticize about Dick’s writing in both canon and fanon is all just ripple effects emanating out from that.

Because Dick did not brighten Bruce’s life by just being his bubbly, cheerful, adorable sunshine-y self.

Dick brightened Bruce’s life by giving Bruce a reason to CARE about having brightness in it as much as he was surrounded by darkness.

Because Bruce had spent the last fifteen years neglecting to prioritize including any brightness in his own life, for his own sake, because as far as he and his immutable survivor’s guilt were concerned, he didn’t need it, perhaps didn’t deserve it.

BUT HE REFUSED TO LET THAT BE TRUE FOR THIS KID TOO.

He may not have been willing to fight to keep his own life and outlook bright and cheery all these years, but this kid who’d endured so much tragedy in so short a time, was so lost, was so quickly fading away into scraps of nothing compared to the bright, vibrant, larger than life figure Bruce had only briefly caught a glimpse of that night at the circus BEFORE tragedy struck and the world started piling on the darkness and trying to douse that kid’s light....

Bruce was going to fight like hell to keep that from happening, to keep that child he’d only seen for the briefest of times from turning cold and aloof and bitter.

Because maybe the problem had always been that when it came to himself, he didn’t remember what it had been like before his parents died, what he’d been like. He couldn’t see, couldn’t imagine, what he was supposed to look like when he was happy, what that even was...couldn’t picture it to even have a goal that the always goal-oriented Bruce Wayne could strive towards.

But a happy, bright, beaming Dick Grayson.....

Bruce knew what that looked like. He’d seen it once, the night they first met. HE KNEW WHAT WAS POSSIBLE FOR DICK, what he could be, because he knew and remembered seeing Dick be that before...and there was a clear picture for that, a goal, something that could be aimed for, something to keep aiming for even when it seemed impossible to reach at times.

But it wasn’t impossible. Not for Dick. No matter how hard it got at times, no matter how much Dick pushed him away or tried to drown himself in darkness and shut off all feelings, armor up all his vulnerable parts where the world might sneak in and hurt him.....Bruce wasn’t going to quit because that happier Dick Grayson was out there, was still a possibility. He’d seen it, captured it in his mind, held it up in his memories as proof of purpose whenever he started to doubt himself, or Dick’s ability to recover, or his ability to be the one to help Dick recover...

But if not him, who else was going to do whatever it took to be whatever Dick needed? As far as Bruce could tell, especially in takes where the system already had its shot at doing right by Dick and demonstrated an appalling lack of giving a fuck before Bruce stepped into the ring.....nobody else but Bruce seemed to remember that happier, brighter Dick Grayson. Nobody else seemed as invested in preserving THAT version of him, keeping it alive, fanning the last dying sparks of that bright spirit as long as it took to reignite back into a blazing bonfire that would become a beacon of brightness for Bruce himself, and a whole city and at times even a whole world.

So when you can’t trust anyone else to do a job right, you do it yourself. That’s ALWAYS been Bruce’s philosophy. Hell, its the whole nature of his control freak tendencies.

So that’s what Bruce did. And nobody does stubborn like him, not even Dick Grayson, and eventually, even the angry, bitter, untrusting and totally traumatized version of himself Dick had every possibility of turning into, instead gave way to Bruce’s far more determined refusal to let that happen, and Dick was like, well fuck it, guess I’ll be happy again if you’re gonna be like that about it.

I mean, lol, not really, but you get my point.

Dick didn’t save Bruce.

BRUCE SAVED DICK.

And not by just opening up his home to him. Not by just being someone who nominally, casually, as though that’s all there was to it was just ‘there for him while Dick grieved and recovered’ like it was as simple as that.

There was nothing simple about it. There couldn’t have been. Because there’s nothing simple about that much grief, that much trauma, that much upheaval, that many reasons to give up on the world and refuse to let anyone in or ever really trust anyone again.

Y’know. Like happened for Bruce, over a course of fifteen years, because this stuff is a JOURNEY not an anecdote like ‘well that happened but then they got over it and became superheroes, the end.’

No. Putting a roof over his head and food on his plate and even giving him a mask and a cape, those were just actions. Those were just pieces. Those were just thumbnails of the big picture.

None of those saved Dick. Made him the man, the hero he became.

BRUCE DID THE WORK.

Its that simple, and its also that complex. It was a process. It was a journey. It was a long hard road full of pitfalls and self doubt and second guessing and frustration. It was a million reasons to give up or turn back and only one reason to keep going, but one reason was all he needed. To save this one child. Not just by catching a bad guy or punching a Rogue. But to save him FULLY. His spirit as much as his body.

There’s a saying that goes something like “save one child, you save them all.”

Because the thing is, no matter how much Bruce might want to at times, he couldn’t do that for every single orphan out there. BE THERE, to the extent needed to actually bring Dick back from where his traumas had taken him.

But that didn’t mean he couldn’t do that for this one, for whatever reason Bruce latched on to him as the one he just couldn’t shake, couldn’t stand to see this way, HAD to do something, anything, everything to stop that. Maybe because Dick did remind him so much of himself in that one crucial moment. Maybe because he felt guilty for not doing more sooner, when he found out what CPS had actually done instead of helping him. Maybe for reasons Bruce himself could never explain, so he just grabbed at any explanation he could think of for why he felt such a bone-deep certainty that this kid, this one specifically, needed him in specific.

Doesn’t matter. But what matters is you can’t save every traumatized child, but you save one kid, you save them all.

Because every single child matters as much as all children, to the right pair of eyes.

And you save one child by proving to them they’re worth saving, proving you want to save them, make them believe it....

That child grows up caring about proving to other children they’re worth saving, proving they want to save them, make them believe it. And on and on it goes.

You raise heroes by being their heroes. You save their world by being their world.

And being a hero, saving the world, that’s HARD FUCKING WORK.

You work and you work and you work at it.

And then you work some more.

And through all the times you feel like giving up, you willfully just refuse to and you KEEP. DOING. THE. WORK.

And if you do it long enough, do it well enough, do it so thoroughly and consistently and fully that in time you forget that its work at all, that its not just a fundamental part of you, a basic fact of your being, a reason you exist and breathe and get up in the morning....

Maybe eventually, hopefully, there comes a morning where you look up and realize somewhere along the way, that kid you saved has become a hero. Maybe he’s saving the world now himself.

And then you get back to work.

THAT. Is how you get Good Dad Bruce Wayne.

And I’m here for all the Good Dad Bruce being that, proving all that to Jason, saving him that way. And the same with Tim, and Cass, and Damian, and Steph, and Duke and Harper and Cullen and Colin and whoever you want to throw in the mix.

Its just.

That has to start with Dick.

It just has to.

Because a happy, cheerful, pun-loving, wise-cracking Robin like Dick Grayson was even after all the tragedy he’d endured so early in his life....

As well as THROUGH all the tragedy he endured as Robin...

That doesn’t just HAPPEN.

Kids aren’t just LIKE that.

You don’t get to expect them to just BE like that, all on their own. To just bounce back to their factory settings after enough time filling their grief quota.

Even a kid like Dick, hell, especially a kid like Dick, needs HELP to get to that point after where they’ve been, what they’ve been through. Needs a REASON to get to that point, a reason to try, to care, to get back up and fly again. Needs guidance, a road map. A guiding light through the darkness, a lighthouse that pierces through the fog.

You don’t get to expect them to just make it there on their own if they just spend enough time stumbling around in the dark, getting even more banged up as they trip and fall and crash into things with no idea what to look out for or a clue they might be headed down an even more dangerous path.

Saving people is hard work. There are no shortcuts. And it never stops.

Bruce Wayne knew that when Dick was younger. He proved it, time and time again.

Dick Grayson the hero IS the proof of that.

You only actually get Bad Dad Bruce Wayne...when he forgets to do the work. Stops doing it, stops trying. Maybe thinks he doesn’t have to do the work anymore, or at least not do as much of it. Thinks maybe he’s done now, its all up to Dick now.

No. Taking a kid in, raising them, making yourself their world until they feel safe and comfortable enough to look beyond you to see what else is out there again....that’s a job you don’t ever get to stop doing, once you willingly start. There is no clocking out. You don’t go home at the end of the day and not expect to see them there, because its their home too and if they feel otherwise or aren’t sure of that, that just means you have more work to do.

So you want to nip Bad Dad Bruce Wayne in the bud?

And not just in terms of Dick, but all or any of his children?

You still have to START with Dick and KEEP BRUCE DOING THE WORK with Dick. Putting in the time, the effort, the care, not taking him for granted, and never letting there reach a point where Bruce thinks Dick’s old enough that Bruce doesn’t need to do that anymore.

Because a Bruce that stops doing the work with Dick is a Bruce that’s going to stop doing the work with all his other kids in due time as well.

Especially since the more you treat Dick Grayson’s early years with Bruce like they were all carefree and trauma proof, just laughter and puns and Saturday morning cartoons....

The more it begs the question....

If Bruce can’t even make it work with a kid that ‘makes it that easy’....how the FUCK do you think he can make it work with all the kids you guys all so much more easily regard as more traumatized, more difficult, harder to reach or get through to?

Like....the more you accept Bruce had to do actual WORK to help Dick heal, the more Jason and all the others benefit by extension....because it makes Bruce that much more intuitive by the time he gets to them, that much more aware of his own actions and choices and impact.

This fandom wants more Good Dad Bruce Wayne content so bad, well guess what, I actually do too.

But if you want Bruce to never forget to keep doing the work, to keep caring, to keep making an effort and making a point to BE there for his kids...

Then as content creators....it doesn’t work if you forget to make Bruce do that work, make those efforts.

And not just for some of his kids, but ALL of them.

Because if you can justify him not needing to do the work with one of them, you’re only kidding yourself if you think your version of his character could never justify giving up on doing the work for any of the others too.

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jaykore · 5 years

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How Jason and Tim's relationship should be in your opinion? I don't know much about them but I wanted to ask this to you. Someone said they hate each other and I am just trying to find different opinions about it.

Oof… nonnie this is a loaded question.

This is the question that “launched a thousand ships” if youwill.

How do I answer this…. In short… They absolutely do not hateeach other, and people who are telling you that refuse to acknowledge the last8/9 years of DC comic canon. In fact, according to recent canon material, I’d go so far as to say that Tim is actually Jason’s FAVOURITE of the bat clan.

The longer answer is… under the cut.

Jason and Tim have an incredibly rocky history that beganextremely negatively. I don’t know how much you’ve read nonnie, but the ColesNotes version is that Jason was the second Robin, before Tim. He was murdered at the hands of the Joker and when he came back to life, he found that Bruce had “replaced” him with a new kiddo. Not just replacing him as “Robin” but in his life; like Jason, as a son, was easily replaceable. (At least that’s how Jay perceived it).

Jason was hurt, and angry, and personally, I don’t think he ever truly hated Tim. I think that Tim was the unfortunate target of all his rage, and in an effort to hurt Bruce he targeted and on occasion brutalized Tim. In the worst instance he corned him alone in Titans Tower and attacked him, leaving him bloody and on the verge of death. Jason’s mental health has never truly been explored by any comic writers, but it’s a “fanon headcanon” that part of Jason’s anger was due to what people call “pit rage”. In that they believe that the Lazarus pit that Jason was dunked in knocked some things loose and made him a little crazy. I believe… (and people can correct me if I’m wrong) that this may have been referenced in the comics somewhere; that the Lazarus Pit effects people in that way. And so… if you tend to be in the more “forgiving” group, you can see where Jason, who is already a troubled teen, dunked in a rage pit, and feeling like he’s been kicked to the curb, could go a little insane. Not that this is right by any means…

The interesting thing about Jason is, even though it appears he hates, or wants to hurt Tim, over time we see that there may actually be a grudging respect? Jason asks Tim to team up with him on occasion to help clean up Gotham’s underbelly. Tim declines, and Jason just pretty much accepts that’s how it is,or they fight and go their separate ways.

For Tim’s part, it appears that he never truly hated Jason. Tim even looked up to him at a point. When Jason came back they were both frustrated and hurt and angry and they’d fight… Jason viciously. But even after Jason is locked in jail by Dick, Tim STILL believes that there’s good in Jason, and finds a way to break him free. Jason also stabs Tim in the chest in Battle for the Cowl… and yet he still doesn’t hate him. Tim’s a saint lets be honest lmao.

Enter the retcon that everyone loves to hate. New52. In which DC revamped their canon and released a line of 52 new series in 2011. With it, many characters and their backstories were also changed, including… I bet you can guess… Jason and Tim’s! However… lots of people conveniently henpeck and/or ignore this canon all together, such as those telling you that Jason hates Tim and/or is his adopted brother. According to current canon… absolutely not true.

When they retconned everyone’s stories… Jason was the only kiddo officially adopted by Bruce Wayne. Dick Grayson was his “ward” but never his “son”, and Tim Drake’s parents are still very much alive. Tim is never adopted by Bruce, and in fact, never becomes “Robin”, therefore, he doesn’t “replace” Jason in the same way. It is heavily implied that Jason and Tim had issues when Jay came back from the dead, however… Tim has forgiven Jason and moved past that. Jason and Tim find an odd camaraderie in being the “black sheep” of the family, the Robins that “didn’t quite make the cut” if you will.

They often work together, side by side in titles like “Batman Eternal”. “Batman & Robin Eternal”, the “Robin Wars” and “Death of the Family” events… etc etc; Tim even makes cameos in Jason’s series, “Red Hood and the Outlaws” in which he tells Jason he’s forgiven him, and hopes that one day everyone else can move on too. They work together a bit in “Red Hood/Arsenal” as well.

So… in short. If you ignore the last decade of DC comic canon, you can probably say that Tim and Jason tolerate each other. Even then, I don’t think “hate” is the correct word. I think to say they “hate” is each other is oversimplifying and negating a lot of the complexities of both characters and their relationship overall.

If you follow canon… you’re an absolute liar to try and tell people that they “hate” each other. They simply DON’T. Not now anyway 😊

At the end of day, to each their own. I just wish that people would be honest with the facts.

So I hope that helps nonnie! And you go out there and form your own opinions! But in the meantime, I’ll leave you with some lovely collaborative canon JayTim content :D Because they like each other…

Last time I checked we don’t generally give people we hate fun nicknames, like “Timbers”.

NOTE BIEN! ***THE ONLY MEMBER OF THE BAT FAMILY THAT DOESN’T MAKE ME THROW UP A LITTLE WHEN I SEE HIM*** aka Jay’s FAVE of the famdamily lol

Or help people we hate….

We don’t generally flirt with people we hate either (ahem… yesmy shipper goggles are on)

Nor do we wanna fight bad guys with people we hate….? ButTim does…

*Tim and Jason ‘fought’ each other to throw the Joker off…

And Tim gives him sweet compliments… lmao

Lastly, in Rebirth, while they don’t work with/see each other asmuch as they did in the New52 runs, they’re still aware of/affected by eachother. In particular Jason, who still appreciates Tim, and when Tim “dies”, hasa hard time bringing himself to attend Tim’s funeral.

So yeah… I don’t…. see the hate… lol But I do see something else -eyebrow waggle- haha

#jaytim #jason todd #tim drake #red hood #red robin #Anonymous #long post #photo heavy #the longest post that ever posted #I am tired of people ignoring canon for their own agenda #reference #jaytim relationship #and anyone is welcome to politely correct me if I've misspoken as I'm working from memory #and you're allowed to disagree with me politely and message me privately if you want to chat more about this

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bitimdrake · 2 years

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I could talk in length about Bruce's emotional abuse and manipulation of Stephanie Brown too. She's not his kid, but he pushed her around like a pawn fairly often in the early days, and used her as a tool to emotionally abuse and manipulate Tim. Super fucked up and not talked about enough.

YEAH. (I'm pretty sure this was part of a string of asks about the other kids from the same anon, but I kept it separate so I could talk about it on its own.)

Sometimes I include Steph in posts talking about Bruce's failures and abuse as a parent and sometimes I don't. Because she's not his kid and never has been (and imo doesn't even have the same level of almost-parental as pre-adoption Tim and Cass, though maybe that's colored by hindsight), but she is a young vigilante he sometimes trained and a Robin, so there are still many parallels.

imo there are basically three things about how Bruce sees Steph, which are what ultimately inform how he treats her (pre-Batgirl, at least; after that he's alright to her and (because?) they rarely interact):

Bruce doesn't want Steph to be a vigilante, is convinced he gets to control that, and pushed it in very cruel ways. This one has little parallel with Bruce's kids, but a lot of parallel with Helena Bertinelli/Huntress, who was a big Gotham player in the same era as Spoiler originally. Basically, Bruce is convinced he is and should be the ultimate controller of all things vigilante in Gotham, that he gets to unilaterally decide who is and isn't allowed to operate in "his" city, and that anyone who goes against him on that is automatically in the wrong. (In fanon, this turns into "no metas in gotham" and I still don't know where that's from, but I digress.) In canon, this typically means Bruce tries to force any vigilante who is not him or the legion of proteges sworn to his oath to give up. For Stephanie in particular, it's because Bruce thinks she simply isn't good enough as a vigilante. (Which, like, come on, dude; that is the most fixable problem you could have.) With someone like Huntress--whose code allows for killing--Bruce is more likely to directly intervene, but with Steph, he mostly just insults her and tells her to go home, and then leaves her alone while she inevitably doesn't. Part of this is simply due to Steph being a Robin supporting character in this era, and therefore Bruce not appearing in a lot of her issues, but the point still stands. He doesn't think she can cut it, and he thinks she is likely to get herself hurt, but it's seemingly not such a huge deal that he has to constantly intervene in person. Even when Bruce does try to fully, 100% blacklist Steph (post-Bruce Wayne: Fugitive), it takes the form of him instructing Tim and Cass to steer clear (or trying to lmao), choking off her supply of equipment, and trying to prove the point to Steph herself so she'll want to quit. (Eventually, Steph becomes Batgirl and Bruce returns from time shenanigans to see her succeeding, and he finally endorses her and approves, even recruiting her to Batman Inc, which is nice for Steph and the ultimate post-Crisis resolution to their relationship. But doesn't erase all the shit before it.)

Bruce, I truly believe, deep down likes Stephanie. This is maybe a harder sell to make, but listen. On the rare occasion he stops stonewalling her--during the first period he trained her, or when she was Robin--Bruce genuinely enjoys her company. I think of the issue where she chattered all night on the comms and he admitted it was nice to listen to, or his enthusiasm in her Robin training montage. Steph is a determined, usually upbeat kid with him and like. That's the essence of Batman and Robin. Of course he likes her. Unfortunately, this does not make things any better. Also unfortunately, or perhaps tied into the last ‘unfortunately’, Steph (canonically) reminds Bruce of Jason, in the era when Jason was dead and gone. If Bruce were someone more willing to deal with his emotions, this might be painful but something he doesn't take out on her--or maybe even sweet and cathartic--but uh. Bruce is. not. a person who deals with emotions. So.

Bruce knows Steph is important to Tim (and vice versa), and knows he can use that. Unlike point one--wanting Steph to quit--where Bruce is fully convinced he's right, I think...he probably knows this part is shitty. He knows that trying to manipulate your (future) son with his (ex) girlfriend is a shitty thing to do. But it's useful to him! It might get him the things he wants! So he does it anyway. Sometimes Steph is a person to him in her own right, but sometimes she is just part of Tim's supporting cast to him, and his manipulation of her is more about manipulating Tim than about Steph herself.

And so you end up with a Bruce who is just constantly jerking Steph around. If he stayed consistent in his insistence that she quit, he would still be a jerk, but I think it would be so much less upsetting? Because instead, he will do all that--and then he’ll suddenly turn around and decide to engage with her and make her part of the team. Only he does this (pre-Batgirll) EXCLUSIVELY when he is unable to have Tim around so it’s. I mean. He’s just blatantly using her as an emotional substitute. And as a tool to try to manipulate Tim into returning.

And then he’ll abruptly decide that actually, you know what, maybe he was right all along as she shouldn’t be a vigilante, and he’ll go back to trying to cut her out. As if he’d never encouraged it in the first place! Most infuriating of all is after he briefly trained her the first time and then would use “she’s not trained enough” as a reason she shouldn’t be Spoiler like! Whose fault is that B!! Because Steph is determined as hell and trying her fucking best to get anyone to train her!

(And then he will stop trying to push her one way or the other at all, but only because he is now focused on manipulating Tim instead and she is just a pawn in that game.)

It’s like. He keeps her on the hook juuust enough for her to still feel like his approval is possible, while revoking it at every turn--and maybe that’s not intentional. It reads to me more as Bruce changing his mind (and probably not even admitting to himself when he’s using her as a replacement crutch, or as a tool vs Tim) than him intentionally trying to foster that feeling in her. But it’s undoubtedly cruel either way.

#dc #stephanie brown #bruce wayne #*#*dc #dc meta #do i. do i use the tag. we are right back to the debate #this is not actually parenting because he is not her parent but uhhhh fuck it'#batman's c+ parenting #ask #anon

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bigskydreaming · 4 years

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Thinking about dc fandom always shitting on Dick's fashion sense and something else came up. My mutuals have turned into kpop fans, they keep posting these highly fashionable dudes' hq pics, they wear skirts, lace, ruffles, feather, glitter, all the colors.. They look good most of the times, they're not afraid to wear furry slippers or pigtails or prints, it's not what I'm used to seeing in white dominant industry. I bet Dick's fashion choices are like that n not what tasteless fanarts show.

I mean, I get what you’re saying, and I do agree in part, but also….that’s still not quite the entire issue for me.

Like…its basically just annoying the things people come up with to try and ‘bash’ him while still claiming to like the character, because honestly I believe that’s all it is. Just looking for excuses to make fun of him, and its so juvenile and pointless. There’s literally no basis for thinking Dick makes poor fashion choices in canon except for his costumes, he’s literally been a model, a socialite, a spy, and he’s routinely cited as being considered in-universe one of the most attractive people in both his civilian and superhero personas.

Like…people don’t generally fixate on the attractiveness of people whose clothes they’re busy mocking, you know?? LOL. It just makes no sense! When super hot people wear super weird clothes…..the comments are still usually about how they’re super hot, lmao. Look at like…things like the Met Gala. THAT’S the kind of ‘out there’ it takes for people to weigh in on celebrities wearing outfits that people find ridiculous despite their celeb status and attractiveness….

So, unless we’re pretending that Dick Grayson habitually wanders around wearing the equivalent of a celeb costume for the Met Gala ball in his civilian outfits…..nobody is focusing on his bad fashion sense when he’s just Dick Grayson, ergo….there is zero basis for saying when Dick Grayson is being Dick Grayson, he has no idea how to dress himself, or look good. In that respect, its that simple, y’know?

Because the other thing is (and this is mostly where I disagree with you in execution, even though I get the spirit of your ask - like, I agree his fashion choices when he IS trying to stand out might be more eccentric than most people would usually go with, but he’d look damn good regardless) but I just mean….in his civilian persona, Dick never even really WANTS to be noticed, most of the time! He DOESN’T try and aim for the spotlight when he doesn’t have to be the center of attention like at some gala he’s forced to attend. He LIKES to blend in, go unnoticed….this is a guy who is fiercely fixated on being his own man, and KNOWN as his own man, noted for HIS accomplishments, HIS identity….not being seen as Bruce Wayne’s son first and foremost, or the Wayne Heir before all else….he just wants to be Dick Grayson. He’s never really liked the attention that comes with being a public figure due to being Bruce’s ward or son, at any point.

So its like…what about that suggests that he’s someone who either consciously or unknowingly goes around attracting attention with outfits that make him a public spectacle? He’s not some oblivious, air-headed ditz, he’s extremely aware of his surroundings at all times, lol.

Not a single thing about the fashion disaster fanon overall makes any sense, under any degree of scrutiny, unless you’re just committed to….making a mockery of him.

And the only thing it can be traced back to, the ONLY thing….are his costumes and his mullet.

Let’s tackle the mullet first - guys, its an anachronistic hairstyle. Its something he only had DECADES ago, in a time period when people actually wore their hair like that in the US. Get over it. EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER has similar periods in their history, lol. And yet, its only him that’s singled out as being so unfashionable he was wearing a mullet in fics set only five years ago, whereas everyone else’s hairstyles of a different era are left in that era. C’mon. Its transparent.

Which brings us back to his costumes. The pixie boots, the leotard, the Discowing with its bright blue and gold and scooped neck and high collar….

Now THOSE are unfashionable, fandom says.

Well see the problem with that, fandom….is by every canon out there…

DICK DIDN’T DESIGN THOSE OUTFITS TO FIT FASHION STANDARDS.

He wasn’t TRYING to win the good taste award and approval of the society he was in instead of his circus home, not by his own choice, and which frequently sneered down at him and tried to make him feel lesser. And the classism some of us are referring to when we mention this….is the assumption that his motivations are irrelevant, its only the approval and standards of ‘mainstream society’ that matters in whether or not his costumes are deemed ridiculous or not.

Except…..Dick’s costumes were designed not for fashion, but for SENTIMENTALITY.

They were meant to be reminders of where he came from. A way for him to hold on to his roots. For his circus past, his parents, his origins to be represented in his superheroics every bit as much as the skills he learned from Bruce and others.

It was his way of saying he at least had never forgotten where he came from and he never would, BECAUSE HE’S PROUD OF IT.

Shockingly, he’s PROUD of being a superhero who came from the circus….which is literally the only reason he was ABLE to become a child hero in the first place, because that’s where he attained his acrobatic skills that gave him enough of an advantage despite his age, that he could actually MAKE it as a superhero and vigilante.

The entire Robin legacy that’s at the center of so much of fandom’s conflicts and preferences….

IS BORN OF THE CIRCUS. THAT HE WANTED TO WEAR REMINDERS OF. TO BE COMFORTED BY VESTIGES OF HIS CHILDHOOD. MEMORABILIA THAT HONORED HIS FIRST FAMILY.

Robin doesn’t EXIST without the circus.

And frankly, as much as people dismiss this as being not that big of a deal, I find it gross, same as I do the jokes about his name.

Because this is a fandom that is COMMITTED to defending the sentimentality and origins of their various fave members of this iconic found family.

Upholding where each of them came from as being just as iconic and important as where they ended up, as members of the Batfamily….

Except for Dick. Except for his circus roots. His costumes, honoring his roots. His childhood nickname, holding onto that last connection to his parents.

Only Dick isn’t allowed to have his sentimentality, without being made an object of mockery and silly, childish jokes. Because the circus is just funny, its not meant to be taken seriously, even as the object of an orphan’s deep and profound loss. Because his name is another word for penis, that’s all that matters, not that its one of the only mementos of his parents he actually managed to hold on to, that nobody could ever MAKE him give up or lose.

And that’s so….frustrating, irritating, and just….sad, y’know?

Because its not about the jokes. Its about the hypocrisy. Of trying to find deep meaning and introspection in the childhoods and origins of every single other member of this family except for the first one to actually MAKE it a family….because in his origins and childhoods, most people can’t be bothered to find anything but jokes.

Its all connected. Of course so many people have trouble acknowledging Dick’s traumas, his agency, his boundaries…..when they’re still unable or unwilling to get past the point of acknowledging his origins as a REAL place that REALLY mattered to him, just as much as the origins and roots of every single other member of this family.

When you treat where someone came from as a joke, a joke is all they’re ever going to be to you. Because shockingly….where we all come from, is kinda integral to who we are as people - whether real OR fictional.

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