#thor ragnarok criticism
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people getting mad and offended at the fact that some of us don’t like loki’s characterization post tdw (aka we dislike ragnarok/iw) like ok you literally approve of loki constantly being made fun of, not being taken seriously, and not having anything he’s been through the past however many years being elaborated on… as well as him making jokes (during a play he supposedly wrote) about his jotun heritage when he was literally deeply ashamed of it, and when asgard is very discriminatory to frost giants… none of us really care to hear of your thoughts on loki in the first place if you approve of that bullshit and think any of it makes any fucking sense
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Wow, what a tool.
Seriously, Thor? that was your take away? Is it truly Loki who won't change? Loki made pretty clear his feeling and motives and what Thor thinks what Loki wants is not to see him anymore. You know what, maybe Thor and Loki really shouldn't be with each other.
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The fact that the mcu makes Loki being super powerful technically canon, but then turns around and almost never shows it and goes out of their way to emphasise what a wimp he is compared to several other characters is… a paradox.
This is a guy who:
• successfully enchants 50% of the giant eldritch horror entity that devours universes and tamed the entire multiverse, on his first try
• can telekinetically lift an entire building on the fly without breaking a sweat
• has the power to create an illusion the size of a large city
• whether for nefarious reasons or not, is literally the one that intentionally brought the avengers together and then almost succeeded in beating all 6 of them by himself
• overpowered, dethroned, and enchanted the literal Allfather and trapped him that way for 4 years
• is the only character we’ve seen onscreen that has the power to travel between worlds without the use of any magical object
• isn’t even a nexus being, yet almost every version of him in every universe is a timeline breaker and he’s created more nexus events than any other being in TVA history
But then the writers turn around and make him get beat up by humans to show how badass Sylvie is by comparison or make him get his ass kicked by Valkyrie to show how badass she is by comparison or make him get punked by Dr Strange in less than 30 seconds to show how badass he is by comparison or make him get outsmarted by Thor to show how badass he is by comparison or-
You get the point.
#loki is a plot device even when it’s his scene even when it’s his show#like he is actually canonically SO powerful#it’s just that they never actually let us see it#so half of us don’t even realise it#people keep saying they want marvel to make him as powerful as Wanda or strange#but like#even just with the stuff we’ve seen of him so far he ALREADY IS#it’s just whether they want to acknowledge it or not :/#Loki meta#loki series negativity#thor ragnarok criticism#loki
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anyways was thinking of a thor ragnarok rewrite last night as sleep refused to take me. obviously it can't be exactly like actual ragnarok bc marvel/mcu's norse stuff is..nothing like actual norse lore but i figured it could still have some more similarities than what the actual movie did.
(also if i were to rewrite the movie this isn't actually what id do, this was just. idk. what i was thinkin about as i was desperate to actually falll asleep).
anyways i figured this rewrite would actually work best if it rewrote the end of tdw first- loki gets stabbed by kruse and passes out for a while (rather than being able to pick himself back up in secret like what actually happened) and in that time odin senses that loki isn't dead and sends some guards to collect him. since loki technically broke the law *again* (committed treason, escaped jail, etc), he can enforce even more punishment, especially now that frigga is dead and she can't do anything about it. That, combined with some prophecy from midgard (or maybe asgard, idk) as an excuse added justifying reason, he sentences loki to the worst thing he can think up: to be bound against a rock with a snake dripping venom on him, his lips sewn shut so he can never lie again, forced to be in his jotun form, for all of eternity. In the deepest dungeon.
Thor obviously doesn't know about any of this, because he thinks loki dead.
so loki is taken, bound to a rock (idk if it's really work to have him bound with organs tho, since he doesn't have children in the mcu. maybe it's his..pet's? or maybe just chain. idk.), a snake coiled above him, seiðr bound, lips sewn shut, and his æsir form taken. He is completely alone, save the guards outside the chamber.
i don't really ship logyn in the mcu, (bc she doesn't exist in the mcu and their relationship feels to me like it would span for several centuries prior, so just randomly introducing her in one movie would seem strange to me), but i follow some people who do, so i wondered how i could incorporate that anyways, and make it not seem too strange.
Sigyn is one of the guards who has a shift guarding loki's chambers. She feels awful about it though, and eventually decides she has to do something to help. She ventures into the chamber and decides to catch the dripping venom with her helmet.
She also tries to cut the stitches from lokis lips, but when one string is cut, it doubles and repierces the skin, now twice the strength. She tries again, cutting them all at once this time (rather than individually), and grabs them all at once and pulls them out before they can multiply and repair themselves (luckily this time it works). She almost regrets it, though, as now she has to hear loki scream himself hoarse, and she can't do anything else to ease the pain.
she stays for several weeks/months/idk, holding the helmet above loki, having to empty it every so often. Perhaps she gets to know loki in this time, perhaps she doesn't. Perhaps she notices a certain brand on his shoulder, perhaps she does not. Perhaps she knew loki vaguely before, and now muses to herself what could have possibly changed him. Perhaps she didn't know him before, and doesn't muse. I don't know. But eventually she decides she needs to find and tell thor.
as hard as it is, she leaves loki to suffer alone (she tries to see if she can leave the helmet or fashion some contraption to make sure the poison cannot get in his eyes, but she cannot). After some searching and asking, she finds the mourning sullen prince thor and tells him what has occurred. Thor, now filled with joy, rage, guilt, horror, and sadness, breaks loki out with sigyn.
Loki is a mess. He has gone blind- whether temporarily or permanently is unknown- and has visible burns from the acid venom. His hairs a mess and his skin sweaty and thin. You can see his rib cage with how thin he's become. He wasn't allowed much clothes at the start of his punishment, but what few he had have been burned by the venom as well. He can't walk. He's barely conscious, and what little bit he is is just filled with delirium. They basically have to carry him.
They hide away from asgard (or at least the palace). And then ragnarok gets unleashed and they have to fix it etc and in the end they realize that it wasn't literally loki's being freed that incited ragnarok, but it was necessary for him to be freed so they could help stop/fix it/lessen the damage etc idk i was pretty tired at this point i wasn't thinking of details. anyways
idk if that made any sense lol but i'll tag the logyn people i follow/was thinking of
@therese-lokidottir @jonquilclegane @cosmic0artist
#did this make sense#is this anything#unityrain.txt#logyn#sigyn#mcu sigyn#loki#mcu loki#tr loki#ragnarok loki#thor ragnarok#thor ragnarok criticism#fic#fanfic#fic idea#movie rewrite#thor ragnarok rewrite
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Dad on dad violence
#gow#god of war#god of war ragnarok#thor#kratos#atreus#im not immune to any of them.... yeah. hello it is time for more thorposting. i will take no criticism#shitpost#windyart#scribble comic#not really but yeah kinda#ouhhh yeah baby its all coming together#best of
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Something that really pisses me off is this assumption that because you dislike the current direction with Loki and Thor’s characters, it must mean that you “hate comedy” and “want everything to be serious and gloomy”. As if the only form of comedy that exists is weird, random antics. What is this attitude that thor and loki were never funny in the previous films? The only difference is that the comedy was formed based on their personalities and conflicts with other people or situations, rather than just them being stupid or quirky.
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has anyone done this yet
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Thor ragnarok sucked bc they put thor in actual gladiatorial combat and didnt put him in a little gladiator skirt and leather harness. What a waste
#back on my thor in skirts agenda#is this worth tagging as ragnarok critical? its not like a Serious Post#thor
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Why Thor: Ragnarok is remake and doesn't fit to other movies of Thor
I will talking only about chronology in this post. Hela shows ''true history'' of Asgard. Well, but we have one problem. We watched Thor and Thor: Dark World. This both movies are the denial of Hela's words.
The frescoes show the winning couple. Odin and his daughter conquering the world. Look at Odin. A white, senile beard… interesting… because we saw what Odin looked like over a thousand years earlier at the time of Loki's birth.
Here later with both sons.
And here as King of Asgard when Thor and Loki are grown men.
The war with Jotunheim was in 965 AD.
And Odin looked completely different at that time than he did in 2011-2013.
Next thing… is the case of Borr and the war with Malekith.
5,000 thousand years ago, Borr was still the king of Asgard and fought against the Dark Elves. Interesting thing, his heir is not with him. Odin is not present during this key battle. He seems to truly believe that his father defeated Malekith.
Why isn't Odin present during this battle? We have two options… and they are related to age. Either Odin was too young to fight battles (Asgardians do not have children during battle, Mr. Taika Waititi! If Loki saw that scene with his mother, he would tear your head off!) or he was a very young man who was just old enough to be regent during his father's absence… which would make him roughly the age of Thor and Loki in Thor (2011).
However, both situations quite exclude the possibility of Odin being an old man with an unstoppable desire for power and an adult daughter.
Even assuming that Borr died quickly after this battle and Odin already had a teenage/adolescent daughter… that still doesn't fill the gaps. Because Odin was not the old man shown in the frescoes. And if he had access to the fountain of youth, he would use it again rather than allow Hela to be released?
Failure to solve the problem of Hela also puts the events in Thor 1 in a strange twist. Odin actually believes that it's time for Thor to be king. Why? He put off Odinsleep, Frigga really thought he might not wake up from this. He probably also realized that his strength was weakening. And… he didn't tell any of his sons… when I die, your bloodthirsty half-sister will suddenly appear and want to kill you? What kind of ruler does this?
My conclusion : Thor Ragnarok is remake.
We see the actual history of Asgard… up to 2015… where Age of Ultron still honors this timeline.
Overall timeline of Thor 1, Avengers, Thor Dark World, (in the meantime movies related to Avengers like Winter Soldier or Iron Man 3) and Avengers: Age of Ultron. After that, we never see any further events. I would also like to point out that Thanos in Guardians of Galaxy and Thanos from Infinity War are two different characters. The last time we see Thanos from Guardians of Galaxy is in the scene with the gauntlet at the end of Age of Ultron. Thanos in Infinity War is nothing like the previous Thanos.
Well, Thor is probably still looking for those stones, and Loki is preparing a surprise for Thanos in their universe.
The further timeline, starting with Ragnarok, has completely different events and one could even say a different universe.
#mcu#anti ragnarok#loki odinson#loki#loki of asgard#thor the dark world#thor 2011#thor ragnarok#meta analysis#mcu meta#mcu critical#marvel meta#anti taika waititi
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Best Green Character Round 1-F
#best green character tournament#polls#loki#loki odinson#loki laufeyson#marvel comics#thor ragnarok#mcu#critical role fjord#fjord stone#critical role#cr c2#fjord tusktooth#mighty nein
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i think they should make a movie where the writers actually like thor and loki
#how many more times are you gonna butcher their characters?#we need to talk more about how shitty the writers treat thor too. his writing in endgame was so…#you know… just because he’s a quote on quote rich kid space viking (words of taika waititi)#he still deserves a character arc from writers who actually understand what they’re working with and respect him/his fans.#fans who they (the writers directors and the studio in general) would be nothing without btw.#thor and loki deserve better#anti avengers endgame#anti thor ragnarok#thor ragnarok criticism#avengers endgame criticism#anti taika waititi#thor#thor mcu#loki#loki mcu
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Thats probably what odin meant by how frigga told him not to use "asgardian justice" on loki and instead use ultra super heavy duty grounding in the dungeon
"Asgardian justice" was mentioned by Thor in Avengers. But it is curious that Thor was so sure about Loki not breaking under torture, when Fury mentioned pain. I have always headcanoned that this is because Thor and Loki as princes of Asgard must have been captured by enemies a couple times and went through sth horrible. Then you remember how Loki in the first movie says a guard must be flogged for taking so long to inform Odin of their travel to jotunheim. But he actually never tries to punish someone physically when he has the highest power in Asgard. Moreover Loki expected to be tortured by Shield and wasn't fazed about it. He also expected to be executed by Odin. And Odin tells him as much. He tells Loki that the only reason he's still alive is Frigga. So considering how well Loki knew Asgard and Odin, it wasn't far-fetched.
But Odin also knew Loki well enough. He wouldn't have subjected Loki to a physical form of torture. It wouldn't work anyway according to Thor. No, he condemned Loki to sth far worse. The pain and fear that broke down Loki in the first place.
Besides, I wouldn't call solitary confinement for life -literally one of the worst forms of torture- "grounding". But I do think that's how Odin meant for people to see it. As a sign of kindness for his eViL child.
All of this tells us that torture and execution wasn't frowned upon in Asgard.
Still you could say that Thor wouldn't let sth like torture and execution happen to Loki and considering his characterisation before TR, this was true(I don't think he knows solitary confinement is in fact a form of torture). No matter how much Loki and Thor fought and hurt each other, there were lines they wouldn't cross. Thor also didn't believe Odin would do that to Loki. He still held Odin in high regards and considered him a wIsE kInG and a gOoD fAtHeR.
But then Marvel has Thor talking about torturing a child nonchalantly and refer to it as "standard stuff" which makes the whole picture looks very very ugly and worse than what you imagined before. So does that mean it's standard stuff for Asgard? Was this how Thor and Loki were treated growing up? Loki mentions Odin favoring Thor and always forgiving him. Does that mean it was Loki who was always punished? Was he flogged and that's why it's the first form of punishment he can think of? Would Thor let Loki be tortured facing Asgardian JuStIcE? That's not the Thor I know. Even not the Odin I know. At least not his mcu version. And I don't think mcu Frigga would ever let sth like that happen to her children.
So I'm not going to consider What If as canon. Many of its episodes directly contradict mcu canon anyway. It's only a good inspiration for writing fanfics.
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in Thor 2011 Thor offers his hand to Loki when he thinks Loki is clinging to the edge of the Bifrost and needs help (though it turns out to be an illusion) - even though they are actively fighting at the time and Thor doesn't even know why Loki attacked him or what has caused Loki’s breakdown. That action is portrayed as heroic.
In Thor Ragnarok Thor gloatingly stands over Loki and tortures him while he is completely helpless to defend himself in any way and then leaves him utterly incapacitated and writhing in agony. That action is ALSO framed as heroic and justified.
Because both actions are framed positively by the narrative I feel like a lot of ppl don't notice or think about the vast difference between those actions and the resultant differences in both characterization and real world messaging.
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does anyone else think its sort of strange that valkyrie got to be king? like.
a) she was a valkyrie for odin (which the mcu presents as warriors rather than carriers of souls to the afterlife), so would had partaken in the colonialism/imperialism and genocide that asgard loved so dearly
b) after that instead of changing to become a new and better person she just went to sakaar and captured and enslaved people to be part of gladiator fights which was basically a death sentence that doubled as spectacle, dehumanizing and frivolizing your death
c) she was a warrior with no education in ruling, had no interest in asgard for centuries, and was an alcoholic (seemed ok with it though) who enjoyed having no responsibilities
it just seems a bit... strange? i mean i wouldn't put it past thor to give that responsibility to her thinking it would help change her for the better or whatnot, but that fact that it "worked" and she was a good king (at least i think, i suppose i haven't watched any of the latest mcu stuff) is what doesn't seem right?
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I asked Twitter/Instagram for Six Fanart suggestions! There were way more responses than I thought I’d get, so I did twelve characters instead. These are the sketches:
Hopefully I can finish these out in the next few days!
#junker queen#overwatch#caleb widogast#critical role#denki kaminari#my hero acedamia#ruby rhod#fifth element#sevika#arcane#rebecca cyberpunk#cyberpunk edgerunners#mabel pines#gravity falls#rasputin aquato#psychonauts#thor god of war#god of war ragnarok#janet the good place#the good place#twinkle riot#destruction allstars#power chainsaw man#chainsaw man
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This is going to be in my Gagnarok Workshop and Critique series (which, I am still working on. My first draft glitched and didn't save on my compute. What was saved is unrecoverable, so I have to rewrite it 👌🥲), but it's worth noting that in every well paced film, the central conflict (also known as the Protagonist's want vs. need) is generally introduced within the first ten minutes, and then around the 17-18 minute mark of a 90m film, expanded upon with the central theme. This will always correspond with the push in to Act 2. This something I loving call "the Page 17 rule", since every minute of film roughly translates to a single page of a screenplay.
"the first act of pretty much any movie ends around page 17 of the screenplay, or about 17 minutes into the movie (give or take a minute" - toddpack.com
This is important to always nail down, because in doing this, the characters and the audience will get a scope of what this film is about, what the character is trying to learn, and USUALLY might get the central theme of a story told to them. By the time page 17 rolls around, they'll be ready to face the central conflict with the protagonist, who is thrust into a new world that embodies this want vs. need dilemma.
In Gagnarok the central theme is SUPPOSED to be "Asgard is not a place, it's a people" — or at least that's what the screenwriters and Taika thought they were going for. ... but not only do they not capitalize on this idea, (not to mention that it never made sense as a lesson to learn in the first place), but it doesn't even show up until AFTER the 17 minute mark.
It shows up (vaguely) at the 21:47 minute mark. ("Remember that. Home.") With the 17m mark being in the middle of the interlude with Dr. Strange. This is a prime example of time wasting and goes to show how disjointed and poorly paced Thor: Gagnarok is from the ground up.
For reference:
THOR (2011):
07:00m - "A wise king never seeks out war but must always be ready for it."
17m - "I have no plans to die today" / "None do."
20:14m - (Laufey) "You're just a boy trying to prove himself a man."
THOR: THE DARK WORLD (2013):
09:13 Thor: the Dark World - "Be with your people, where your heart is."
17m - Jane discovers the Aether
23:24 - "Merriment can sometimes be a heavier burden than battle." / "Then you're doing one of them incorrectly."
THOR: RAGNAROK (2017)
7-9m in: Thor on Muspelheim fleeing the fire dragon, and returning to Asgard
17m - Dr. Strange talking about if the spell needs any Asgardian modifications to find Odin.
20-23m - "Your sister. The Goddess of Death ... Remember that. Home."
In both cases the leading action that pushes into Act 2, Sequence 1 (New World/Old Juxtaposition) is prevalent. In 2011 it's the mission into Jotunheim -> Thor's eventual banishment. In 2013 it's Thor being heartbroken, Jane vanishing -> Thor taking Jane (and the Aether) to Asgard.
This isn't to say that the page 17 rule is hard and fast, but it exists and it works for a reason.
#in which vi talks about screenwriting stuff and why thor ragnarok is BAD#it's such a bad film it's so poorly done i'm so mad. >>#&&. whispers#&&. thor.#&&. | marvel. |#salt to taste#thor ragnarok#thor dark world#thor 2011#anti thor ragnarok#anti taika waititi#screenwriting#thor ragnarok critical#thor ragnorak a workshop and critique
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