#sw fandom meta
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i think the Jedi-Positive and Jedi-Critical stances can be summed up on whether you value authorial intent or authorial execution.
Most of the Jedi-Positive people I follow quote George Lucas and director commentaries to prove their points, as well as utilize analyses from others at LucasFilm that have to keep the general status quo. It's all based on what Lucas was trying to portray, while ignoring the product in execution.
The Jedi-Critical stance tends to look at the prequel execution, and they question the obvious uncomfortable moments that have real-life parallels to atrocities. They tend to be more Legends fans, whose writers actually delved into the terrifying implications. It's all on criticizing execution while disregarding intent.
Like, take the argument about Jedi children. A Jedi-Positive person would argue that all the children are all given up with consent from their parents; this is what I am sure Lucas was intending to portray. A Jedi-Critical person will look at this and go "wait. how much 'consent' was in this encounter? the government can legally take these kids and have a representative show up to a farmer's house and tell the farmer they can technically say no? that is some bullshit." And there is real-life evidence for this. It's more on the execution.
Or the argument about love. Jedi-Positive people turn to Lucas's interview to show that they really meant it in the Buddhist sense, and if you value intent that works. Jedi-Critical people would argue that the marketing states that the Jedi cannot love, and nothing in the movies states that the Jedi meant non-toxic love when they eschew attachments.
They're both valid positions, but I think a lot of fandom brutality comes from not understanding either view, or demeaning one view in favor of another. It's perfectly acceptable to value one over the other.
#star wars#starwars#jedi#jedi order#the jedi order#star wars meta#sw fandom meta#sw#sw prequels#sw fandom#pro jedi#anti jedi#jedi critical#jedi positivity#I also think a lot of it is also based on filters as well#but i didn't want to crowd the post#lucas used a fairytale structure to write his story#but there's still a huge portion of deconstruction in canon stuff#maybe i'll write more
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Vader is just truly the most character ever because you can make every single thing in his life a comedy or a horror or a tragedy or a melodrama and no matter what you're correct
#personal#star wars#anakin skywalker#darth vader#star wars prequels#star wars ot#star wars the clone wars#sw prequels#sw#vader#anakin#star wars anakin#fandom: star wars#type: meta
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tcw fans will be like “this is my comfort character” and it’s a clone who appeared in two episodes (and died in the second), had a single line of dialogue, and was given no characterization outside of fanon
#it’s me#i’m tcw fans#hound my beloved#wooley my child#clones#clone wars gave me emotional attachment to a bunch of clones#sw clone wars#tcw meta#tcw#star wars tcw#clone wars#clone troopers#star wars#star wars fandom#star wars meta
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My favorite thing about Star Wars is the hilariously inconsistent descriptions of the force. Is it in us all? Is it magic? What is a midachlorian?! Who knows!! But, that silly lil monkey lizard in Jabba's palace is named Salacious B. Crumb, so there's that.
#star wars#anakin skywalker#padme amidala#star wars fandom#anakin and padme#star wars prequels#the force is strong with this one#the force works in mysterious ways#the force is with me#jedi#jedi order#star wars meta#sw meta#pro jedi#the force awakens#the force unleashed#midachlorians
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I've noticed it seems to be getting fashionable to call Anakin a "narcissist" and a "pyschopath" again.
Just when you think you're making progress in promoting understanding of mental health- you realize these people have learned nothing.
You know, i’ve been back to tumblr for like 3 months and it’s amazing how little it has changed. After over 20 years of fandom, time has taught me the discourse rarely is about an honest, open minded, adult discussion of the source material. It’s more about people trying to validate their own feelings about it. So, it’s not really about Anakin. It’s about people who don’t have a strong emotional connection with him, or who does not empathize with his character arc, trying to rationalize it. Or, at worst, it’s about being mad that other people like/enjoy something do not.
The Jedi discourse is a prime example of this. If say you anything remotely negative about them, like “they made a few mistakes”…suddenly your argument is automatically invalid and, on top of that, you’re a bad person who “doesn’t get it”.
So, in my old age, where I used to see an attack on my favorite character (or even myself), I see someone trying to justify or validate their own opinion with the tools they have. We have to remember not everyone knows enough about psychology to understand why Anakin is not psychopath or why it can be harmful to use real identity disorders mock fictional villains.
My advice is for you to ignore it. Trust me, fandom discourse is a bottomless pit. That’s why I prefer to spend my time discussing star wars with people who actually want to have a productive conversation about the material.
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Before I begin, I just wanna throw these out:
• “ ‘Missing out on love’ isn't something that matters as much when your society isn't amatonormative.”
• “When the world around you doesn't emphasize marriage and romance and all that, then wouldn't you view cultures that do as a tad odd? Not weird in a bad way, just different.”
• “[…] People cannot fathom the concept that other people might experience romantic attraction, and do so intensely, and yet value something else above romance.”
• You just don’t have those feelings of “I need romance, I need marriage” when your society isn’t broken by being amatonormativity. You just don’t have those feelings when you’re already fulfilled in a community. You just don’t have those feelings when you have a purpose in life.
• “Call me crazy, but I know for a fact that I would not want a romantic relationship if I was a Jedi […] […] […] I honestly don't understand the assumption that ‘the Jedi are miserable because they can't get married,’ I really don't.”
• There’s romance and marriage in every single media and literature, so why should it be inserted into a fictional monastic culture? If you don’t think entire groups of people could choose to have no romantic commitments their entire life, then there’s over a thousand-year nonfictional accounts of monks and nuns and priests choosing to live a single life in an environment that, too, forbids them from romantic commitments, and they lived in contentment and peace.
————————————————
I wanted to show all that first, like a little preview, because this post is not only about why the Jedi are not wrong for disallowing romantic commitments and marriage, but it’s also about amatonormativity which has always been an enormous problem in the real world, and it clearly impacts how people view communities like the Jedi within fiction.
———
“So why can't Jedi marry? The Jedi believe that children and spouses deserve complete attention. They believe that people deserve present parents and involved partners. Being a Jedi isn't a job. It's a lifestyle. How dare they preach compassion and fairness and justice whilst leaving some abandoned child somewhere? How dare they teach kindness and love and self sacrifice while having a neglected spouse?” — @popupguidetothegalaxy (original post here)
This right here! It wouldn’t stop the criticisms within that part of the fandom, it’d just redirect it to a different one.
Even if the Jedi did marry and have families, y’all (Jedi antis) would then criticize the Jedi for prioritizing the galaxy (which is literally their vocation, their aspiration, and their lifestyle) over their spouses and children.
On top of their daily galactic duties that « take them away from the temple on assignments or missions, away from the planet that temple is located on, and always on the move interstellar-wise » ,,, antis think the Jedi should/could be able to marry and raise a family properly with zero neglect of either spouse and child?
Forget about being burnt out like a nurse in a severely understaffed hospital, it’s just simply an impossible commitment!
———
I watched “Tiger Cruise” rather recently, because it’s one of those Disney movies I never watched growing up, and one conversation in the movie puts this into even more perspective – because the teenaged main character is sick & tired of always only seeing her Navy commander father for a few weeks every few months, begging him to quit the Navy and come home for good.
Maddie: Dad, when are you coming home?
Commander Dolan: What do you mean? We're gonna be docking on Friday.
Maddie: No, I mean… When are you coming home for good?
Commander Dolan: Is that why you came on board? To ask me that? [pause] Look, this is my job.
Maddie: Then get a new one. You've got the degrees, you can do like anything you want.
Commander Dolan: This is what I do.
Maddie: [pause] Must be nice .. travel all over the world, no responsibilities.
Commander Dolan: I'm responsible to a lot of people.
Maddie: To strangers, Dad. What about us? [pause] We’re strangers too. We move all over the place, see you for a few weeks every four or five months, or whenever the Navy says it's okay.
Commander Dolan: The Navy is a way of life. I mean, you go into it and you know the sacrifices you have to make.
Maddie: Well, you’ve done it for my entire life.
Seriously, is this what Jedi antis want? It’s misery, and not necessarily on the parent’s part — he’s HAPPY and LOVES his job. He has the degrees to do anything he wants, as Maddie pointed out, but he doesn’t leave the Navy. It’s the same with the Jedi, as they have the best education and biggest library in the galaxies. And yet…
(some Jedi-Critical) and Anti-Jedi fans think the Jedi are miserable and why the Order is “wrong” for disallowing it [which is just projecting their subjective view of “what a fulfilling life is supposed to look like” onto a monastic people who value and find fulfillment in something other than romance], but it would actually be miserable if they did have families.
Pushing aside the fact that the Jedi are a monastic (and not only martial) organization, there’s a legit reason for disallowing marriage and committed relationships. It’s not fun and games. You can’t combine two enormous commitments and think you can handle it without neglecting the other. There’s no such thing as a part-time Jedi, it’s not a job title!
Jedi are able to leave the Order peacefully, they aren’t forced to stay, but on this specific topic, you just don’t have those feelings of « I need romance, I need marriage » when your society isn’t broken by being amatonormativity. You just don’t have those feelings when you’re already fulfilled in a community. You just don’t have those feelings when you have a purpose in life.
How dare they be happy and fulfilled by being Jedi? How dare they show their commitment to the Order by making the active and daily choice to be Jedi, when they could leave any time? How dare they stick their middle finger up at the no-romance/no-marriage rule? How dare the Jedi not conform to the “education → graduation → relationship → engagement → wedding → 2 kids and a dog” trajectory that only an amatonormative society expects of you? How dare the Jedi be monastic and live like it too?
———
(Words belong to @phoenixyfriend)
• “ ‘Missing out on love’ isn't something that matters as much when your society isn't amatonormative”
• “When your culture is one that emphasizes compassion for all [...] Don't you think that people might just not think of marriage as something worth striving for?”
• “When the world around you doesn't emphasize marriage and romance and all that, then wouldn't you view cultures that do as a tad odd? Not weird in a bad way, just different.”
I just keep thinking about the real world and how so much of the obsession with marriage and so on is a sociocultural thing. You don't want a big white dress because it's a big white dress: you want it because it is the symbol that your culture has been pushing on you since you were two. Girls are taught to fantasize about weddings and marriage and to like A Certain Look for it, sometimes to such a degree that they can spend decades in denial about things like their sexualities.
And we're unlearning that as a society, people are being more critical of the institution and how they engage with it, are starting to question what it is that our media teaches us, asking 'why is marriage the most important thing in a girl's life, or in anyone's life' and generally moving towards a world where marriage exists but is not treated as a universal life goal.
But the Jedi are just. Already doing that.”
• “Marriage is not an inherent human/sapient want. Companionship is! We are biologically wired to be social creatures! […] But marriage? A signed sheet of paper? That's not...inherent. Fidelity and monamory? Sure, maybe. Plenty of species mate for life. But... humans have been proving that's a choice for most of history.”
— (original post, here)
Even without the galactic scale of their lifestyle and duties, is it really so hard to understand or believe that people wouldn’t be miserable in a society where romance is not considered an important thing at all?
If you don’t think entire groups of people could choose to have no romantic commitments their entire life, then there’s over a thousand-years history of monks and nuns choosing to live a single life in an environment that, too, forbids them from romantic commitments, and they lived in contentment and peace.
They’re not only connected to other Jedi through the Force, they are connected to the rest of the universe through the Force; they find joy in their selflessness, in helping people, in trying their best to do good in a universe permeated with corruption. They love being a Jedi, there’s nothing a romantic relationship can give them that’s as fulfilling as being Jedi.
Just…stop projecting your amatonormative misery onto the Jedi.
———
If millions of people around the world in real-life can choose not to ever get married and have children (without even being a part of a close-knit community like the Jedi), despite being bombarded with amatonormativity in media and literature almost everyday, then what’s so weird about a fictional group (who are literally warrior-monks and whom have all of their companionship needs met within their non-amatonormative community) choosing to be single in favor of a higher calling and lifestyle that’s far more valuable and fulfilling than having a romantic relationship?
———
(Words belong to @jedi-enthusiast)
• “Call me crazy, but I know for a fact that I would not want a romantic relationship if I was a Jedi.
If I lived somewhere where I was a part of a community of people that I considered my mentors, my friends, my family; if I lived somewhere where I was encouraged to learn, to travel, to help people, to enjoy life as it is, and better myself; if I lived somewhere where I was supported and loved and cared for by the community, and I did the supporting, the loving, the caring for other people in the community as well; if I lived somewhere where it wasn't constantly implied, or sometimes outright stated, that my worth was tied to me marrying a man, popping out children, and making money...
...if I was a Jedi, I can honestly say that the thought of pursuing a romantic relationship probably wouldn't cross my mind at all---not unless I met someone specific whom I felt that sort of connection with, but even then, I probably wouldn't give up being a Jedi to be with them because I'd feel more fulfilled as a Jedi than I would in a romantic relationship.
I honestly don't understand the assumption that the Jedi are miserable because they can't get married, I really don't.
If you feel like you wouldn't be able to be fulfilled without a romantic partner, then that's fine! Everyone's different! We all have different wants and needs! But just accept that you wouldn't be fulfilled without a romantic relationship and stop acting like it's impossible for anyone else to feel differently.
The Jedi all seem perfectly happy as they are.”
— (original post, here)
I also wanna add, because I don’t know where to put this statement … there’s romance and marriage in every single media and literature, so why should it be inserted into a fictional monastic culture? They’re not only warriors, they’re monks too.
It’s a rhetorical question…but I think either they’re so marriage-obsessed that they hadn’t thought of this. Or they are consciously aware of the over-saturation of romance within media when they talk about how the Jedi Order are wrong for disallowing romantic relationships, but they don’t care because they think higher callings are stupid and anything else is inferior to a romance/marriage.
———
(Words belong to @tookas-have-teeth) (original post here)
• “There is a difference between people saying that everyone feels romantic attraction and that it is necessary to being human [arophobia] and the comments a lot of people make about the Jedi.
Oftentimes, when I see complaints about the Jedi, it's because people are angry that people who DO feel romantic attraction might not choose to act on it, or might be part of an organization that requires its members to give up romantic relationships and marriage. People cannot fathom the concept that other people might experience romantic attraction, and do so intensely, and yet value something else above romance.
People consider this to be a cruel denial and repression of one's feelings, rather than seeing it as a choice people are making to prioritize things they value. People have SO bought into the idea that romance is the Ultimate Form of Love, that romance is necessary to live a fulfilled life, that they cannot imagine folks finding other forms of love more fulfilling, especially if those folks experience romantic attraction.”
—
[a comment within the post linked immediately above] “By claiming that people who experience romantic attraction *must* act on it or else they are oppressed, one is functionally insulting every priest, monk, nun, or any number of members of a religious order who choose, of their own free will, not to pursue romance in favor of a higher calling.” — @supersaiyanjedi14
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There’s only two other fictional worlds that I can think of off the top of my head, that are non-amatonormative. Blissfully fulfilled and happy …
… Equestria (My Little Pony) and Pixie Hollow (Disney Fairies).
After learning the word, I could now put a name to why these two worlds are my top favorites: It’s a non-amatonormative society where everyone’s happy with just a community and a purpose in their life, where romance is 100% not an important factor.
“But in Pixie Hollow, there’s no reproduction, so of course there wouldn’t be any relationships.”
There’s still love and attraction.
Rosetta gets a crush on Sled in Secret of the Wings, Queen Clarion and Lord Milori reveal they fell in love in the distant past. And Terrence has a crush on TinkerBell (although that might just be the printed media, ‘cause I don’t remember it being obvious in the movies).
Is it really so hard to understand or believe that in a society where romance is not considered an important thing at all, and people have (literal) power and a job that they love and a whole damn community for companionship, then those people wouldn’t be miserable?
So, again, stop projecting your allonormative and amatonormative misery onto the Jedi. ‘Cause that’s all it is: your projection.
It’s so sad that the real world can’t be like the aforementioned worlds. Our world makes it so hard for people; a majority don’t have jobs they love, or they don’t have time or money to pursue and grow their talents, and there’s no true community among us. It’s literally dystopian, and we only see it as “this is normal, it’s real life” because we don’t know any other way. But that’s quite a different topic, so…
—
I just wanted to add these, unrelated to Star Wars and fandoms, to point out how destructive it [amatonormativity and allonormativity] is in the real world. ‘Cause I do see tweets on my timeline, from time to time, where a user will be torn over not having a relationship at a certain age or their life not following the ‘right’ trajectory.
[posts by people outside of the Star Wars fandom]
— @uncanny-tranny (original post here)
• Amatonormativity has destroyed so many people's understanding and acceptance of themselves, and it's heartbreaking.
Yes, it is normal to be in your 20s, 30s, or older and not have lost your virginity, had a first kiss, or a partner. It is normal to say that you aren't ready for those things, too! It is normal if your life doesn't follow the "college graduate -> engagement -> buying a home -> 2.5 kids and a dog" trajectory that so many people have idealized.
So many people associate maturity with losing your virginity, or having a first kiss, or a serious relationship, and I think that's a dangerous association. Maturity isn't gained through those things, and you don't have to have those experiences to be considered "mature" or "grown." It is not a bad thing to go at your pace. Nobody else can live your life but you. If you end up having those experiences, that's great! But it should be done because you want to experience them, not because you feel "broken" and "immature" without them.
— @/acegirleatscake on Twitter
• Allonormativity and amatonormativity normalizes ableism: the “you must be cold, sick, delusional” or “there’s something wrong with you” if you don’t have sexual or romantic attractions or don’t want those types of relationships. Being single is seen as “being unwell.”
@/0p4l3sc3nt for this one (below)
• […] single people are constantly questioned about the legitimacy of our happiness […] In an Amatonormative society, our romantic relationships will always have ulterior motives (often subconscious) – which arise from us being conditioned to see romantic relationships as the means to achieve personhood, happiness, and TRUE purpose.
———
Sincerely, everyone in the Anti-Jedi circle needs to go outside, touch grass, and reflect on it.
If our society wasn’t amatonormative (if there was no such thing as our idealization of romance and marriage, if romantic relationships weren’t seen as the most important thing at all in our society), then nobody would have an issue with the Jedi Order disallowing it — for many legit reasons, might I again remind you! Their reasons make so much sense, yet your amatonormativity floods in and turns your brain into worms.
• “Fiction doesn't necessarily map onto people's real life opinions, but the statements people make about this topic are often very broad "the Jedi are bad for forbidding marriage, because people NEED romance" type statements that definitely sound like they're general worldviews rather than just opinions on fictional characters.” — @tookas-have-teeth (again)
This post was left in my drafts from a month ago (early August 2023), but seeing the topic come up again just made me kinda snap; and I don’t want to just scream into the void, so I’m posting it.
And I don’t care how repetitive some of it is, because that was very intentional. They’re like little reminders, so you don’t miss the point and might actually reflect on it.
HAVE A GOOD DAY!
#star wars#amatonormativity#pro jedi#fictional monastic cultures do not need romance or marriage when every single media is non-monastic and oversaturated with romance#in defense of the jedi#long post#allonormativity#this was in my drafts but I’m taking it out ‘cause I’m just sick and tired of ppl acting like the Jedi are miserable over the Order’s rule#I’m taking it out because I’m just so sick and tired of ppl acting like the Jedi don’t make the active daily CHOICE to be a Jedi#I’m sick and tired of allonormative and amatonormative-minded ppl in the fandom#thank you George Lucas for creating the Jedi#sw meta#star wars meta#I wish our society could be more like Equestria and Pixie Hollow and the Jedi#Our society is a dystopia
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The fact that the disaster lineage produces multiple sith lords multiple hermits and multiple people who left the faith is kind of terrible and funny.
I think maybe we should blame Yoda. Like it was just generational fuckery so like it's Yoda's doing for reals. I mean thinking down the line there were a lot of mistakes made.
Like I love these stupid little space wizards but I think we should blame Yoda tbh
#i mean im joking#but also not#fandom:#sw#character:#yoda#count dooku#qui gon jinn#obi wan kenobi#anakin skywalker#ahsoka tano#sabine wren#luke skywalker#leia organa#ben solo#rey#topic:#meta#humor#type:#txt#other:#disaster lineage
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“Arya’s proxy to power in the North is an abuse victim!”
Don’t let Sansa stans know that Sansa’s proxy to any power is the murder of an eight year old and the plans and resources of Littlefinger. The man who forced Jeyne to work in his brothel and sold her off to the Boltons in the first place
Any victory or queenship Sansa has in the North using the Vale’s money, power, and resources are co-signed by Baelish. But I’m willing to bet these losers wouldn’t consider that dismissive of Jeyne’s experiences
And if we want to go one step further, we could ask WHY Littlefinger sold Jeyne to the Boltons in the first place when everyone involved knows she’s actually a steward’s daughter, if his grand plan is to make Sansa Queen in the North? But that would be an inconvenient truth for the lemoncakes and their delusions about Sansa’s 100% morally righteous pathway to becoming Qween 😁
All of this...the goalpost is forever being moved by them. The fake activism they invent kills me and it's so obvious they only bring it up to police our discussions; they can't stand to see people acknowledge Arya's importance to the Northern plot, so they came up with the "trying to make Jeyne's pain about Arya" accusation. If they actually cared about Jeyne they wouldn't be using her as a prop against stans/discussions they don't like.
What's funny is that they invent these moral guidelines when all it does is make them look worse. Cause if it's wrong to point out that Jeyne is posing as Arya, the entire point of her marrying Ramsay, how is it okay to write meta about Sansa benefiting from the poisoning of a disabled child (one orphaned by LF's plotting no less)🤔? They never want to touch those moral implications though...at best they're sticking their heads in the sand and pretending Sansa has no idea, at worst they're writing meta about SW being an abuser :/. It's just hilarious that they swear we can't see how hypocritical they're being. That's why their metas make no sense, they don't have any cohesive logic 😭
#ask#anon#anti sansa stans#like if the plot was Sansa manipulating LF that would be one thing but the plan she's going along with hinges on SW dying#and a majority of fandom expects him to die so it isn't even like this is some niche theory#Jeyne being abused somehow always gets separated from LF selling her unless they can use that fact as a prop#anyways they need to keep Arya out of their mouths cause it's obvious they don't care about her#and stop pretending to read metas by Arya stans cause its obvious that the comprehension skills aren't there
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Similar Stories, Different Treatments: Anakin Skywalker and Abijah Fowler
Ok, so recently I've been re-watching 'Blue Eye Samauri' on Netflix and last night it dawned on me that, generally speaking, Abijah Fowler and Anakin Skywalker have very similar stories and actions...and yet their respective fandoms react to the two of them very differently.
So, here's my long ass post analyzing the two of them and why people react to them so differently.
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First, comparing the two characters...
So, assuming that y'all know me for my Star Wars content, you probably know Anakin's story but, for the sake of this post, I'll explain it briefly.
Anakin was born into slavery and lived as a slave for 9 years. Then one day he and his mother met two Jedi and a handmaiden, and his mother asked the Jedi to take Anakin and train him---which they agreed to do, so Anakin had to leave his mother. At 19 he had nightmares about and then witnessed his mother's death when he went back to Tatooine before being promptly drafted into war along with the rest of the Jedi by the Senate.
After a harrowing 3 years of war and having his worst behaviors enabled/encouraged by the villain and his wife, Anakin begins to have nightmares about his pregnant wife dying. He then tries to prevent her dying, even though she's in perfect health.
We know a little less about Abijah Fowler's past, but we do know an integral part of it from this monologue:
"My country's history is one of manufactured suffering. I was a boy when the Tudors burned any food the rebels under O'Neill might think to eat. We starved. Everyone starved. Mouths on the dead stained green from chewing nettles---you get resourceful in a famine. My parents died early, left me and my sister catching rats. The rats ran out quick. Fed my sister on my blood, it kept her alive an extra two weeks. I didn't sleep for three days to protect her body from the starving 'til the ground thawed. I cut out her kidneys and buried her, fat cap on them like a pea.
I haven't eaten a single meal since my mind didn't go to that bite. It was the last thing I ever did because I had to. I control my life now, every bite."
-----
From my point of view, Anakin and Abijah are very similar in their motivations.
Both of them started out as, assumedly, sweet and kind and caring young boys. You don't harm yourself to feed your sister and then cause more harm to yourself to protect her after she's already dead, if you're not. Similarly, you don't bring three complete strangers into your home because you're worried about them and then risk your life to help them, if you're not.
Both of them then went through great tragedies and likely felt completely powerless because of these tragedies and the circumstances they found themselves in.
For Abijah it was growing up during a famine, witnessing the horrors of famine and what people had to do during it, witnessing the deaths of his parents, being unable to stop the death of his sister, and being forced into cannibalism---of his sister and likely parents, no less---to prevent himself from starving. For Anakin it was growing up as a slave, having to leave his mother at a young age, witnessing his mother's death, and then being thrust into a war and witnessing the horrors of that.
Because of that powerlessness, both Anakin and Abijah hate the idea of them being powerless and their actions are made from a mix of anger at whoever they blame for what has happened---whether they're actually to blame, or whether they've done nothing---and refusal to ever be powerless again, or at least accept that they're powerless.
These motivations led them both to commit- (Anakin) -or attempt to commit- (Abijah) -mass murder, *genocide, **cultural genocide, and murder of their female main character counterpart.
*Abijah wasn't necessarily setting out to commit physical genocide, but he was willing to do so if the people of Japan weren't willing to go along with his plans.
**I do consider Abijah's plans as including cultural genocide, since he has a whole monologue about the people of Japan being "godless" and how he'd force them into Christianity- (Catholicism?) -if he succeeded in killing the Shogunate.
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Now, comparing fandom's reaction to the two...
For Anakin, he succeeds in causing Padme's death, destroying the Republic aka the only democracy in the galaxy, committing cultural and physical genocide against the Jedi, murdering an entire village of Tuskens including the children, and going on to oppress and enslave the rest of the galaxy for decades...
...in contrast, Abijah only succeeds in committing mass murder and fails in all of his other plans---and his success in committing mass murder is partially due to the Shogun's sons and wife locking people inside the burning palace.
But, despite all of this, if you look into how their respective fandoms treat them, you'd assume that it was the opposite.
Anakin is lifted up as this good person who had no agency in any of his actions or, if he did, then the people he murdered "deserved it"---he's loved by most of the fandom and everywhere you look you see think pieces about how Anakin was really a victim, how his actions were justified, how he's not to blame for anything.
Meanwhile Abijah is hated and his actions are labeled by the fandom as bad. He's a terrible person and he's seen as such. I've never seen a single post justifying his actions or trying to say he isn't to blame for his actions.
Now, this is not me saying that the Blue Eye Samauri fandom is wrong to view Abijah this way---on the contrary, I agree that his actions are heinous and he's a terrible person, there's nothing there that I don't agree with.
However, I do think it's interesting how differently both characters are treated when one of them is, unequivocally, worse than the other.
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Why is this?
Now, I'm going to preface this section with the disclaimer that part of it is because Anakin is the main character of his media and Abijah is not---however, I believe that this has a very small effect on how fandom treats them since, as we've seen with other characters, screentime doesn't really matter that much when it comes to whether fandom likes a character or not.
Moving on-
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I think a lot of it is just that Anakin is conventionally attractive and Abijah isn't.
Anakin and Abijah are both selfish, misogynistic, racist, have violent responses to most things, and have committed atrocities in the name of personal gain. The only difference between them---besides the obvious differences that come with the medias they're in---is that Anakin is pretty to look at and Abijah isn't.
It'd be even worse if Abijah was a POC or a woman, even if he was conventionally attractive---as proven by other Star Wars characters.
Mace Windu? Fandom hates him and makes him out to be a villain.
Saw Gerrera? Same thing.
Rey Skywalker? People hate her and say she's "unrealistic" or "too OP."
Reva Sevander? People fucking CRUCIFIED her!
None of these people even come near Anakin's level of "I'm a terrible person and I do heinous things because why not!" Mace and Rey never did anything wrong, and Saw and Reva did the things they did because of trauma/revenge and/or working to take down a greater evil---and even then, neither of them do anything near as bad as Anakin!
Yet they're hated and held to a higher standard and crucified in a way that Anakin isn't.
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Another reason is that people can project onto Anakin in a way they can't project onto Abijah.
With Anakin, they can twist the Jedi's actions to fit whatever trauma they personally relate to, they can shove characters like Obi-Wan, Ahsoka, Mace, Yoda, etc. into whatever archetype they want to fit their story, they can excuse away every atrocity Anakin commits because he's doing it out of attachment and they think attachment means love, etc.
Meanwhile it's hard for people to project onto Abijah because everything and everyone around him is harder to change to fit his narrative.
There's no one really around him that you can say manipulated, abused, or otherwise forced him into doing the things he did. The other characters don't really interact with him, so people can't say the characters "deserved" what he did to them. And he openly admits that he's doing things out of greed, whereas Anakin says he's doing things out of love when he's really not.
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In conclusion, Abijah Fowler and Anakin Skywalker are both people that experienced tragedy and became terrible people that did heinous things because of it---but people only justify one of their actions because they think he's pretty and project onto him.
They're the same person in different medias 🤷♀️
#fandom meta#star wars#sw prequels#blue eye samurai#anakin skywalker critical#anti anakin apologists#abijah fowler
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I think i like the idea of clones using mando'a/mandalorian cultural stuff because in my brain it always has an element (large or small) of spite to it. Like no we are not mandalorian yes our abusive progenitor was mandalorian no he did not want us to be mandalorian yes we will take what parts of this denied heritage we can use and discard the rest. It's another piece of rebellion, to my mind, like the paint on their armor and their insistence on names over numbers. They have to cobble together their own culture piecemeal because they aren't given (or allowed) one to begin with, and they'll start by cannibalizing the one that they were never supposed to touch in the first place. They'll take words and values and concepts, rituals and beliefs, and transform them into something that can be theirs, even (and sometimes especially) if it makes a bunch of shitty abusive bigots spin in their fucking graves. Like love and light to everyone who doesn't like/doesn't give a shit about mandalorian-inspired clone culture but we don't exactly have a lot to work with here and lbr mando'a and mandalorian armor kinda pops off.
#by apples#star wars#the clone wars#clone troopers#also there's definitely an element of spite with MY use of mando'a because of my Fandom Nemesis#that shithead who basically said 'stop using mando culture for clones and just have the jedi be their White Saviors'#so tbqfh i pretty much double- triple- and quadruple-downed on the use of mando'a by clones. choke 😘#sw meta
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why does Star Wars fandom, specifically pro and anti Jedi fans, always cheapen the most poignant moments of Star Wars?
with the pro Jedi people, why do y’all always make it seem like Luke was this naive idiot who blindly believed that his dad had good in him, as if he hasn’t been personally been tormented to the point of mutilation?
with anti-jedi people, why do y’all just try to pin all the blame for Anakin on literally anyone else; yeah he had help getting to the point where he did, but in the end, he jumped off.
stop trying to strip all the fun things about Star Wars from Star Wars.
#star wars#starwars#sw#sw prequels#sw fandom#anakin skywalker#prequel trilogy#jedi#sw fandom meta#sw fandom critical
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Thinking a lot about how by the time TCW comes about Anakin has already committed a grievous sin, already committed a massacre, already chosen his side in some ways. The man Ahsoka knows, the only version of him she ever gets to know, is built on an assumption of purity he has already lost.
He has already begun to fall, and this slip contributes in so many ways to his inability to pull himself back. Because the only person other than Padmé he tells his crime to is Palpatine, because he's the only person who won't judge him (and that in and of itself is a measure of his immaturity–– because he deserved to be judged).
And this contributes so much to Palpatine's control because he has this piece of the puzzle, this ability to go "Oh, but what about this?" any time Anakin tries to pull back from Palpatine's confidence. Because they both know if he ever admitted it to the Order he'd forever lose their approval, and that's what matters most. So Palpatine has this advantage, because he knows more about Anakin than anyone else and Anakin doesn't feel he can confide in anyone else.
But the thing is: for so long, Anakin wants to be better, wants to amend himself for this sin and more than once wants to confess to Obi-Wan, but every single time Palpatine is able to go "Oh but he thinks he's so much better than you, he would never understand you, he would judge you and tell the Order and they'd cast you out" but... Obi-Wan would have forgiven him anything.
I think a lot about Obi-Wan being such a Perfect Jedi (in the eyes of everyone else if nothing else) and how much that hurts Anakin. Because every time he tries to pull himself back from the ledge this epitome of what it means to be a Jedi is just there in his face reminding him of his own failure
#yeah. this is just a stream of thoughts but yaknow#type: meta#fandom: star wars#star wars#sw#star wars prequels#darth vader#anakin skywalker#obi wan and anakin#star wars anakin#lord vader#vader#sheev palpatine#sw palpatine#palpatine star wars#star wars palpatine#palpatine#star wars the clone wars#sw prequels#tcw#obi wan kenobi#sw tcw
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I love Rogue One and I support the idea of Jyn and Cassian being in love on a purely conceptual basis (as in, I think they’re a good match), but I don’t on a story basis.
Jyn and Cassian definitely trusted each other deeply by the end of the movie. As they died, they found comfort in one another and the fact that they loved each other—because I think they did definitely love each other. But they weren’t in love, because they didn’t have the time for that. It’s part of what makes the end of Rogue One so devastating: they are providing others with hope by putting themselves on a path of hopelessness; giving the galaxy a future by sacrificing their own.
Jyn and Cassian may have had a future where they fell in love and stood by each other’s sides, where they had adventures and quiet moments together, but they gave up that opportunity so that others would be able to have futures of their own. The Death Star firing on the planet didn’t only kill them, it destroyed the things that might have been. And, I think, as Jyn and Cassian watch the wave of destruction roll toward them, they’re aware of that; they’re considering all of the things that will never be, and they’re mourning them; mourning themselves and each other and what they might have been together.
Jyn Erso and Cassian Andor might have been in love, someday, but they weren’t, because they didn’t have the chance.
That, to me, is so horrifically tragic: a doomed love story, not the kind where love leads to death or despair, but the kind where death and despair prevent the love from blooming.
#jyn erso#cassian#andor#star wars#rogue one#star wars fandom#star wars meta#sw meta#meta ramblings#jyn x cassian#cassian andor#jyn#doomed love#tragedy
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LRB has me thinking again about how frustrating it is the way people talk about aotc Anakin, specifically about his politics. Because people ignore how much of Palpatines grooming is already taking hold, even aside from the Tusken Massacre (which is a different narrative pit). The amount of memes about him being the conservative boyfriend and shit like wowjdkd no this is a kid who has been groomed and radicalized out of his own beliefs. Palpatine uses the Senate's known corruption and Anakin's past as a slave against him to convince him that the only way to fix the problems that Anakin sees and experienced is through Palpatine being in charge. This isn't just an oh Anakin is a weirdo with bad beliefs, he's been actively groomed to think this way in preparation for Palpatine becoming emperor. Anakin is a former slave, he is very unlikely to come to the conclusion that having a despot is the way to go on his own, someone had to guide him there. I'm not going to act like he doesn't have those beliefs, but there is a reason he does.
#anakin skywalker#sw meta#fandom wank#anyway people just love to act like the man isnt a victim of literal canonical grooming#he made his own choices but like palpatine was so far in his head
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Since I came back to Tumblr i've been seeing a lot of posts about how fans (especially Anakin/Legends fans) believe the Jedi deserved to be slaugthered YET I have not seen anyone make such claim. I haven't seen any prints, blogs or meta that come even close to suggest the Jedi are villains and deserving of death.
I've been away for a few years so im just wondering: Are people making this stuff, greatly exaggerating the discourse or am I missing something? Seriously when did 'the majority of the PT fandom hates the Jedi" became a "known fact" because...i've missed that Memo lol
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you can immediately spot a shitty self insert Luke Skywalker when someone writes him as insecure. That boy has never been insecure of himself in his entire life the entire point of his hero's journey is to overcome pride and learn some humility. Luke who has like half a day of Jedi training and says to the ancient wizard frog "I won't fail you, I'm not afraid." Boy you should be TERRIFIED you're barely an adult and you just learned that you were assigned last hope of this ancient wizard warrior culture at birth. I'm sorry I know fanfic is a very permissive medium so people do whatever they want but at some point someone has to tell you you're not writing this character with their characteristics you're just reusing the same fucking mold of insecure insufferable mary sue self insert that's innocent but fuckable. for fuck's sake he's textbook hero's journey he's the literal blueprint it's not that hard
#luke “im here to rescue you!” “i am not afraid” “i AM a jedi” doesn't have an insecure bone in his body#on the contrary he's a brat#like PLEASE he's already interesting you don't need to babyfy him#sigh this is why im tired of the fandom too#even the canon material is lackluster at best#luke skywalker#sw meta#s.txt
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