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therese-lokidottir · 4 months

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You know mcu really can make favorite and top characters be hateble or they hated by viewers. Like me hate Wanda in MOM. I really hate her in there.

I kidnrhave problem with Wanda in age of ultron, I meant while she told her past (wjy she and her brother hate stark) we never really see HOW avengers suddenly just pardon her and her join. They definitely will suspicious with her first. So that still bothering me

Then in wandavision, I definitely have mixed feelings for that show. Specially with what Monica said and Hayward stupidity and well many. And the ending...... Yeah, no wander many saying that wanda 'too much have free consequences tickets '

And in MOM ho ho ho, it's definitely the worst and before you said she corruption by darlkhold, the book corrupt your moral but not your memories, and in mom Wanda just care with children that she had for 4 days. And before you said they her childrens so of course will want them. Yeah but why she not seaeing vivison, her brother or her parents too? Some viewers said 'she move on fromrthem ao that is why she want the childrens'.

And then wanda go crazy killing spare in ever place while can hypno I first place. My God, what the f&*$ was that? And they said that darkhold in mcu is same like darkhold in agent of shiled. And so far AoS darkhold is make 'evil'/ corrupt but it not make you have killing spare for first chance it got you. Wanda sound very cruel and insane in MOM, and it's too much, and wprse of it she sound like she choose be corrupt, The F

Seriously they manage me hate her so much in MOM

The entire point of WandaVision is that your clearly meant to feel mixed and uncertain about Wanda. For the first few episodes we don't know what really going on. It isn't until the Agetha reveal where it is shown Wanda isn't doing this maliciously or even all that deliberately. It's just something that's happening around her and she's determined to keep it that way.

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Here's a point where it's clear we're not meant to be fully on Wanda side. In this confrontation clearly Vision is who meant to be sympathized with. Yes, Wanda fatal flaw in WV is selfishness, but it's a selfishness born out of desperation and denial. She genuinely did not know she was hurting people.

To discuss Wanda in good faith it needs to be understood that she did not mean hurt others and when she found out she tried to get them out if the hex before accepting to take down all together.

My opinion is that Wanda is not a hero but she's also not a villain. She is mealy a broken person with a power she doesn't have a full grasp on.

The no consequences is she doesn't get imprisoned in the end, but she still ends up alone and hated with no one to blame but herself.

By the end there also nothing anyone can do. Not without Wanda herself going along with it and even if they arrested he she would still be owed a trial that took her mental state and powers in mind. She would also still be owed therapy, that would just be for everyone's benefit considering she's a reality warper who's power that are linked with her emotions.

and yeah MoM is bad, but for me I'm mad at the writing not at Wanda. She went from a character not willing go through hurting and killing people who did her no wrong to just no guilt sending monsters through a major city and killing a teenager to get what she want. Not only is she learning the same lesson again that's not the character she was by the end of WV.

It would be like if Tony Stark not only fully went back to building weapons for the government but he himself was dropping them on civilians. Like, I have been critical of Tony, but that extreme would not be in-character. At that point I wouldn't be mad at Tony anymore I would be mad at the writer.

There were ways for Wanda to have a villain arc and it still fit within her character arc from WV and it just need some time and Waldron outright said he skipped over writing an arc he just Wanda to be the villain of the movie. So, she takes this turn from being in tears realizing she was hurting people to just being eh, I just want what I want. To me the end goal, the want or whether her kids or real or not is moot point because it is A) wrong regardless B) a lesson she already learned.

#asks #wanda maximoff #in defense of wanda #multiverse of madness criticism #dumb walnut

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sofiadragon · 2 years

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How To Fail At Magic — Dr Strange 2

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So many great points in this video essay. It all boils down to this:

Don't pull new powers out of nowhere to do something cool that will never be seen or used again.

Go deep with your worldbuilding, at least for main characters and their primary abilities.

Put limitations and weaknesses on your characters and/or their abilities and use those limitations consistently.

Multiverse of Madness has Wanda casting spells with no physical indication that she is doing anything at all. Total stealth, no visible energy or hand movements despite that being an implied necessity in all other media she appears in (for the MCU.) In scene after scene she does things that are really awesome and cool, but none of it makes sense. If it doesn't make sense, then there can be no stakes for the audience. When every escalation of the danger is an illogical coincidence, a new ability that solves just this one problem perfectly and is never seen or thought of again, or a blatant deus ex machina, then the audience expects that there will be a similar nonsensical or convenient solution for the hero and there is no speculation about how the problem will be solved.

She glows, she moves fingers, her eyes flash... in every movie before this one we know when Wanda is using magic. The only time we don't see it in WandaVision is when the camera cut away from her to hide it!

Brain off, look at the pretty lights. This can make for an entertaining evening at the cinema, but will be forgettable and the complete lack of investment means the audience isn't that hungry for a sequel.

The first Doctor Strange movie had limitations: There is magical energy manipulation, the use of enchanted objects, and complicated rituals. This fit with the magic we'd seen before in the MCU, even for Pietro and Wanda's first appearances (if we consider their mutations due to exposure to the Mind Stone Scepter a kind of ritual.) We know all the abilities and they don't suddenly get added to when there is a challenge to solve, instead existing abilities are used to solve the problems and there is a big emotional payoff for that which we just don't get for deus ex machina problem solving!

So, obviously, that's exactly what we get when Strange saves the day. He dreamwalks into a dead body and gets crazy necromancer powers. The warning about this being a bad idea isn't given to the audience until he's halfway done doing it, and it ends up not as a handicap but as a huge boon before we've even assimilated that this is a risky move. To quote my non-fan family members: "When did [s]he learn to do that, was it in the TV show?"

Marvel does this "hero suddenly has a new power that perfectly solves their problem" a lot, but usually it is a progression or escalation of an existing ability. How did Wanda escape the Mirror dimension and then instantly heal herself from the wounds that caused, but then can't heal anything done to herself later on? Explanations and even the resolution of major plotlines [Looking at you, Sokovia Accords amendments] only ever showing up on the Wiki is just not acceptable for a project like the MCU. At least Thanos spoke to Loki as if he knew the guy in Endgame, so that plot point from Avengers 1, which was leaned on as part of the motivation for Tony Stark creating Ultron, technically made it to film before the both of the effected characters had a heroic sacrifice that vindicated their questionable actions.

It's only a major part of events in 4 films, it's fine if the Loki TV series retcons it away again instead of letting the title character ever explain his point of view or why he did the specific bad things we've seen him do.

So, this is a criticism that hits far more than just Multiverse of Madness, but DS: MoM is the worst offender by far. Not only is the hero doing random things, but so is the villain. Yes, yes it does look cool. It is so cool, but so are fireworks. Meaningless, narrative-free fireworks set off by some neighbor that build to a crescendo to celebrate some accomplishment their favorite person achieved. The details quickly forgotten and the enjoyment fleeting.

#video essay #multiverse of madness criticism #mcu criticism #magic systems #magic systems in fiction #worldbuilding #magic in the mcu #Wanda Maximoff and how her powers work #Youtube

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littlerosetrove · 2 years

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I have mixed thoughts on Multiverse of Madness, but one clear and standout issue the movie had was the script. While I think the story and characters had potential, it fell kinda flat for various reasons.

Before I dive in, I guess keep in mind I still haven’t seen the latest Spider-Man movie, so if there’s some character work for Doctor Strange in that one, I don’t know of it yet.

SPOILERS

Wanda

Wanda was done so dirty. They made her a villain in this movie, and not only was she thrown into the deep end from the start of the film, her villainy came outta nowhere. I understand that even by the end of the show WandaVision that Wanda hadn't actually healed (healing takes time anyway), but she’d made steps in processing her grief. But, what, we’re supposed to take the 10 second scene at the very end of the show with her reading the Darkhold book and supposed to say, “Welp. She’s bad now”?????????

I am not opposed to Wanda becoming an antagonist (again) or a villain, but this movie and the MCU as a whole failed to build up to this point. If they specifically wanted Wanda to be a villain in Multiverse of Madness, then at minimum they needed to build up to this in one other movie so her turn doesn’t give me whiplash.

I legit don’t know how to feel about her (permanent??) death in the end. It doesn’t have the impact I’m supposed to feel because, again, what should have happened story-wise for Wanda in the MCU is a longer descent to villainy. Give us time to, like, mourn this turn, and then give us the bittersweet end of her self-sacrificing for the greater good.

Also? Why is Wanda only focused on getting her kids back, the one she created in WandaVision? She also created Vision there too. Why doesn’t she want her entire family back, which includes Vision?

Doctor Strange

He kinda felt like a secondary character in some ways in his own movie. I think it took me until halfway through the movie to realize, “Oh, so your story here is… wondering if you’re happy?” I mean, that’s not a bad thing to explore necessarily. But it seems Strange’s happiness is tied heavily to Christine, which… Yeah this doesn’t work great for me at least because

1) I’m super neutral on Christine and Strange’s “romance” and general story together. I’ve seen the first Doctor Strange movie 3-ish times, and I can’t recall Christine being a particularly well developed character or compelling one either. 2) Let’s face it, the MCU generally sucks at developing good romantic pairings. 3) Soooo if I don’t really care about Christine or her relationship thing with Strange, then how am I to care about Strange learning to find happiness apparently outside/without Christine? And I mean, having Strange’s entire story around this be the focus in his own movie. (idk if this point even made sense)

America Chavez

I haven’t read the comics, so I have currently zero knowledge about this character. So uhhhhh this movie did a poor job establishing America. She really wasn’t much of a character, at least to me. She was mostly shuffled from place to place throughout the film. Beyond knowing she has the power to travel through the multiverse and she’s been separated from her mom’s for, idk, 5+ years, we barely learn or know anything about her.

I just hope the MCU does better in later projects to actually develop her.

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Here’s some other quick bullet point thoughts

I did enjoy how dynamic the camera work was, how much movement there was. It’s different from most MCU films.

I enjoyed the horror aspect, which is saying something because I’m generally not a fan of anything horror. It was just the right amount.

The pacing of the movie, um, needed some work.

I do not blame the VFX artists for the CGI looking… off. Like damn. There was just so much CGI and I wonder how much time the artists had to complete it. I do wish the MCU would chill out a little with the CGI.

Some of the music choices were odd.

I think Elizabeth Olsen gave it her all and it showed.

I already made a post about this, but my most hated moment/scene is when Captain America Peggy says, “I can do this all day.” 😒😒😒😒🙄🙄🙄🙄 (there was also something... weirdly arrogant about Captain America Peggy in this. I did not vibe with it/her.)

We got another big hint (hello Xavier) in the MCU that Marvel is working towards bringing in the X-Men *gestures* somehow. Mutants at the very least.

I guess my concluding thoughts are Wanda deserved better, Strange was fine, and America was just kinda there. Also: --> I don’t consider this a bad movie, but it did fall pretty flat. --> Idk, I feel like this movie shows that the people over at Marvel/Disney need to put more time and care into each project, and not just shove them out when they feel incomplete and a bit unpolished. But I know they mostly care about that money, first and foremost, so. 🙃

#Multiverse of Madness criticism #Marvel criticism #basically #I do think I can see myself watching this movie #idk a couple more times in the future #so I'll consider that a 'win' of sorts #long post

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miinsie · 4 months

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I love Christine and Stephen but can Marvel please make Strange more than just his love for her? They both have so much potential to be their own characters and have Stephen be more.... independent? I guess. The point is it is getting tiring seeing him be depressed and mope around over someone he has literally reconciled with in the first film just let him move on Marvel! Christine also deserves better than to just be a prop for his story

#doctor strange #stephan strange #i have so much to say but in short #Stephen should be more than just his obsession #what if #marvel #benedict cumberbatch #multiverse of madness #doctor strange multiverse of madness #doctor strange mom #dr strange #marvel criticism

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musclesandhammering · 6 months

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On Narrative Bias

I keep saying it annoys me how Wanda has done so many evil ass things and is never held accountable for her actions, and it never fails that someone tries to respond with “but aren’t you a loki stan? He’s done evil shit too! So you have a double standard and are a misogynist!!!!” Yeah, no. The difference is that you can clearly tell who the writers have predetermined as a hero vs a villain. You can tell who they want you to root for. Loki’s actions are given narrative consequences as harsh as possible, while Wanda’s are narratively excused and softened and sympathised. Let me show you what I mean.

* Loki commits treasons, tries to kill his brother & attempts genocide -> Loki’s father rejects him while he attempts suicide

* Loki tries to conquer earth -> Loki is sentenced to life in prison

* Loki incapacitates the king and secretly takes the throne -> Loki is threatened with a hammer to the face, we’re reminded how awful he is by all the other characters for the rest of the movie & he would’ve faced more consequences if the apocalypse hadn’t interrupted

* Loki steals the tesseract from the vault -> Loki watches his brother be tortured & then has his neck snapped

Now compare that to…

* Wanda willingly signs up to work for a nazi organisation, tries to help an evil robot murder the avengers, intentionally sets the hulk loose on a town of innocent people, & helps destroy Sokovia for a lil while -> Wanda gets a fatherly pep talk from Clint & is immediately accepted as an Avenger

* Wanda accidentally murders a bunch of people while on a mission -> Wanda is put on temporary house arrest in a giant mansion with her boyfriend

* Wanda buries her boyfriend/teammate under like 10 floors of concrete, breaks out of house arrest, & goes against a government order -> the leader of the superhero team defends her, a grown ass woman, by saying “She’s just a kid!”, she’s detained in a government prison for like a week maybe (?) during which she’s shown as a sad helpless victim to encourage sympathy from viewers, & then she gets busted out by the ex-team leader & eventually gets to run off to Scotland with her boyfriend

* Wanda holds an entire town hostage & tortures them just to fulfil her own grief-fuelled fantasy -> one of the women Wanda attacked reassures her that she’s the actual victim in all this and that the people she tortured just have no idea what she’s sacrificed for them & she escapes to an isolated location to read a forbidden demon book and make herself more powerful without anyone interfering

* Wanda goes on a serial killing spree across the multiverse, kidnaps a child, holds her hostage, tortures her, & attempts to take her powers all so she can steal another Wanda’s children because she misses her children that were never actually real in the first place -> Wanda gets some badass power sequences and #girlboss one liners, is the one that destroys the demon book, essentially saving the multiverse from future corruption, & is allowed to die a hero’s death (which we all know isn’t permanent)

See the difference?

#Wanda stans PLEASE dni #loki meta #marvel meta #if you’re gonna make a pro Wanda argument please stay off of my post. respectfully.#anti wanda maximoff #anti scarlet witch #anti wanda stans #Wendy mayomoff #Wanda critical #Wanda maximoff critical #not Wanda friendly #captain america civil war #cacw #multiverse of madness #avengers aou #avengers age of ultron #marvel wank #mcu wank #negativity

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valkyrieandstrangeridingaragorn · 7 months

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Why am I not surprised...

Not telling the actors is a stupid idea, but not even the head writers? Let's not forget Marvel didn't even use showrunners for a lot of their shows, so the most important people in those series are completely clueless about what's going on in a universe sold to the audience as a connected universe! That's how Feige sells the whole thing to us, he claims over and over again that movies and series are linked to one another... and yet he won't even tell the big guys at the series what's happening in the MCU?! 🤦‍♀️

It reminds me of what Spellman said months ago:

Spellman: “I’ve got to tell you the truth, my friend. Marvel won’t tell me what happened to Steve, so we were able to write whatever we wanted because we don’t know. We’re wondering if Steve’s on the moon too, you know what I’m saying? That’s as good a guess as anything because they won’t tell me.”

Oh, and please let's not forget that Waldron and Raimi did NOT watch WandaVision:

Sam Raimi: "I never even saw all of WandaVision; I’ve just seen key moments of some episodes that I was told directly impact our storyline."

Elizabeth Olsen: "I proposed that to the writers who wrote ‘Multiverse of Madness’. I said, ‘Do you know what we’re doing in ‘WandaVision’? Have you seen it?’ And no, they had not seen it"

#mcu critical #mcu salt #multiverse of madness #wanda maximoff #steve rogers

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multiversetrickster · 5 months

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The thing that annoys me the most about the MCU being on a downward spiral is that the path forward was so obvious. Everyone LOVED WandaVision and Loki, and Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, right from the moment it was announced, was always the most anticipated Phase 4 movie (and than it made almost a billion at the box office so if it was actually good, it definitely would have made that much)

Making the MCU more magic based was the OBVIOUS solution. Make Strange, Loki, and Wanda the primary characters of the multiverse saga. Make it the big team up be Secret Defenders with them, Clea, and Brother Voodoo (after introducing both of them), not fucking Thunderbolts. Give Wanda and Loki solo MOVIES after how incredible their shows were. Make the MCU more magic based, and put ground level MCU and space MCU on the backseat

This was the obvious thing to do. But they didn’t do it because they would rather have Love and Thunder, She-Hulk, Secret Invasion, and The Marvels over what their audience actually wants

#mcu #marvel #mcu critical #mcu criticism #doctor strange #loki #wanda maximoff #loki laufeyson #doctor strange in the multiverse of madness

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aspoonfuloffiction · 2 years

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I have now seen Multiverse of Madness and I regret to report that I have regressed back into my “Benedict Cumberbatch is hot” phase. And I am forced to consider if I ever truly left.

#you could not criticize my taste any more than I already have criticized it myself #but the chokehold this very lanky very British very white man has had on me for YEARS?!#doctor strange #benedict cumberbatch #sherlock #multiverse of madness

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dyl-and · 2 years

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let granny go!!!!

#marvel #mcu #multiverse of madness #anti captain carter #wanda maximoff #wendy maximoff #anti mcu #mcu critical #what if..?#what if #sdcc #anti peggy carter #sharon carter

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dust-rat-lives-here · 2 years

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If I see one more MCU fan post about America Chavez's tiny pride pin like it threw the first brick at Stonewall as if she hasn't been a fully fledged lesbian openly in love with multiple women in the comics for years I'm going to commit a crime

#america chavez #anti mcu #mcu salt #mcu critical #young avengers #multiverse of madness #mcu fans are going to be the death of me I swear to god #she didn't even have a lesbian pin she just had the community one #why do y'all keep accepting scraps what is the reason

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therese-lokidottir · 8 months

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Yeah, sorry, Marvel, I didn't shed a single tear for any of these villains when Wanda killed them in an act of heroism.

I mean, they were there only so that their deaths could be played for shock value. (And of course, given Michael Waldron's the one who wrote them, it's no surprise that they're hero-coded villains much like the TVA are.)

Honestly, I don't understand Waldron thought process here. Not only in the comics are The Illuminati are just meant plain wrong but for the writers who keeps going "Your variants all the same" he chose a bunch of characters that have been some of the biggest douchebags. Stephen isn't perfect but I'm pretty sure he hasn't screwed up a fraction as much as Mister Fantastic or Professor X have.

There is a difference between villain and antagonist and they are much more the antagonists than Wanda is. With that most would think it's the point that's the point. That they are hypocrites that brutal end came because they put the blame on the wrong person and refuse to listen. But, no. Doctor Strange the only person trying to do something is arrogant and showing compassion to Wanda was dumb because she's evil.

And why, why is the film so determined to tear down Doctor Strange down and call him wrong? Why does the film have to waste time on that? The first film did in a sincere and interesting way.

#Asks #multiverse of madness criticism #wanda deserved better #stephan strange deserved better #The illuminati deserved what they got #dumb walnut

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magnificent-nerd · 2 years

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OK but this scene in Multiverse of Madness? Both horrified me and also made me snort-laugh from its blatant brand promotion LITERALLY thrust into the audience's faces:

Gif description: Wanda stands in smoke. Out of the smoke, a glimpse of Peggy Carter comes out, thrusting a union jack branded shield (gross) at the camera and knocking Wanda down.

This British Empire branding is gross and unnecessary for 2022. Peggy and her precious empire are a plot point in her new Captain Carter comic run too. I just??? This is so LOUD.

I'm still baffled at how much Marvel keeps pushing this character. LITERALLY thrusting her into our faces, as the gif shows.

Did anyone else hear the JAWS theme playing while watching that?

Wanda is all of us minding her own business: