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#marvel criticism
oldmemoria · 5 months
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okay heres the fucking thing about this script controversy that some people don't seem to get.
just gonna say it blatently:
strap in babes this is gonna be a long one!
The way Miguel O'Hara is written in the leaked transcripts is blatantly racist, here's why from a Latino himself!
all wrapped up in a sweet little bow for everyone who doesn't know how to comprehend what they're reading, cheers!
er. i mean.
¡Salud!
Miguel fans are not mad that they depicted him in a bad light and that they made it clear that he is in the wrong
WE FUCKING KNOW. WE'RE NOT STUPID.
Miguel has been depicted as a morally grey asshole since the early 1990s, which is when Spider-Man 2099 was initially debuted. And while yes, the movies are.... inaccurate, to say the least, it still stands.
The issue here is how he is depicted. They directly call Miguel O'Hara, a Latino man, an ANIMAL (he is directly called an animal TWICE. FUCKING TWICE.)
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[1st image id: Miguel leaps onto Vulture, Clawing his way in past the renaissance armor. he is an ANIMAL. (keep in mind ANIMAL is literally in all caps.) /end id]
[2nd image id: Miguel SLASHES at the walls of light that surround Miles. Clawing the energy field apart, an animal in the throes of bloodlust -- /end id]
I need you to really soak in the fact that he is called "AN ANIMAL" twice. I'm awful at alts and ids but I feel I must so you can read it in plain text. sorry if they suck.
Our issue is not that the writers seem to have a bias against the character. a lot of writers write characters they dont particularly like and in turn tend to write them from a foggy lense of their own perception. An example would be Kate Cary and how she didn't like Crowfeather, a character she had to write about. I'm sure some of her bias seeped through. but this is different.
writing a Latino man as a bloodthirsty animal, implied to be called a predator because they call one of the people he fights (im not sure if its miles or the vulture, im leaning towards believing the former.) his "prey", THOSE ARE ALL RACIAL STEREOTYPES. ALL OF THEM.
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[3rd image id: But Miguel can only see his prey: /end id]
There is no context to be needed here, the context is that this is miguel we're talking about and that they call him an animal. it does not matter if he is a villain or not (which he isnt, factually he fucking isnt im tired of having this conversation, fuck you). it matters that he's depicted in a racially insensitive way.
and this person brought this up pretty well actually, I didn't even think of it:
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[4th image id: Tumblr user @/404-505 saying:
i want to be so mean to them
they couldn't write miguel crossing the border and stealing a job so they wrote him crossing into another universe and stealing his own identity
they couldnt write miguel as a drug addict so they gave him spider steroids instead /end id.]
They bring up a really good point about these clear stereotypes being seemingly. . . disguised behind points that are narratively relevant? This could literally just be pure coincidence, but noting how the writers wrote him before... it isn't looking too good for them. Sorry. Not sorry.
It is clear that there is some kind of bias against miguel that led to really disgusting, racist retoric. Whether or not it was intentional or if it was a first draft or whatever, the writers, which may i remind you were white, still wrote this at some point.
it makes me question whether or not they hated him because of his "bullshit utopia", their words not mine, or because of their own racial biases.
We cannot know because miguel is the only mexican character on the cast. I know Miles is Puerto Rican, but there are differences between how they were portrayed. also Puerto Ricans and Mexicans come from competely different cultural backgrounds that share simularities but are still different dont even try i will destroy you.
Using another users words again, but:
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[5th image id: Tumblr user @/transmiguelohara says:
Don't talk to me about the Miguel parts in the script. I'm so disappointed in how the writers view him.
The difference between the way Miguel is written (antagonist, not the villain) vs Spot (the villain, whats to kill Miles' dad and everyone he knows) is soooo.....I don't know man it just screams racism in sorry. Describing Miguel as a bloodthirsty animal? Repeatedly? Treating him like he's mindless and has no motivation beyond having a hair trigger temper? It sucks man. /end id]
It also strikes me that now that we finally have a brown-skinned miguel, they write him like, well. this.
I don't really know if this is petty or not, but I want to wrap this back to the way the fandom also sees Movie Miguel.
Because TRUST ME it is not good either.
Miguel O'Hara Vs. FANDOM: Spoilers, it's been troubling since the beginning.
From the beginning (and by beginning in this case I mean since he was announced to be a character in this movie) Miguel has been continuously sexualized, beyond belief. He is repeatedly called "papi cholo" which NEED I REMIND YOU "Cholo" is a derogatory term used to call someone, usually a mexican person, a criminal or a delinquent.
FUCK YOU if you are not Latino OR hispanic and use this to describe people. from the bottom of my heart.
I'm pretty sure the majority of the people who called/ still currently call him "papi cholo" are mixing it up with "papi chulo" (white people moment.) which means something completely different but is still troubling as hell.
"papi chulo", which is slightly different in the way, just directly translates to "big daddy". Which again, Latino men being overly sexual "Latin Lovers" is ALSO A RACIAL STEREOTYPE. also its just blatant fetishization. Point blank fucking period.
Not only that but I notice a lot of art and fanfiction depicts him doing a lot of violence, or being very overbearing and demeaning, or in short terms.
a lot of people write him as physically and sexually aggressive.
fuck do you mean he growls during sex i can and will send you to space with no return.
which
for the millionth time
racial stereotype
halleluiah or however you spell it.
Having him say random spanish phrases you don't know the meaning or connotations of in your fanfiction is icing on the cake at this point.
fucking end me.
it isn't even only sexual depictions, since he's been shown in the movie, a lot of people seem to just see him as this guy who goes off and tries to kill children at a hairs trigger. which uh. fun fact no he fucking doesnt.
you clearly didn't watch the movie as well as you thought you did. hes just sarcastic and generally pretty level headed through the majority of his runtime, whether its implied by how characters around him act, or its just what we see on screen.
He doesn't necessarily have anger issues, the moment we see at the climax of the film is quite literally a mental break. he is not acting in a way that he usually would because he was cracking under the stress of holding the multiverse together with some scotch tape and orange glitter glue.
Also side tangent but he also has a mental break in the comics that's a little more... droopy and sad as compared to the movie, but it still happens. he has shitty mental health is what im saying. he only really lashes out angrily when hes at his wits end because that's how he grew up. he was taught to suppress his feelings and seem smaller when he was upset.
he is the result of abuse and neglect. of course he wouldn't be amazing at emotional regulation.
Which before anyone says it no, this is not an excuse for his actions. just an explaination that isn't "hes an angry animal that has it out for miles UwU" that everyone seems to have in their brain. I'm tired of you all. truly.
the sentiment that hes agressive and angry and his only emotion is anger and upsetness unless he's horny which is when he experiences all these emotions tenfold is. racist. idk how clear i have to be for people to get it through their damn skulls that the way the fandom depicts him is harmful. do i need to slap you in the face with a fish until you understand. do i need to burn your fanfiction. will you get it now that a 15 year old latino boy has to scream it in your face.
and dont even get me STARED on how inaccurately he is written
this is a more light hearted section because idk. feels like i should have it because this part is just comical, pun intended. How can you fuck up this hard guys.
I was gonna give them the benefit of the doubt because "Miguel has fresh trauma!" "He only shows up for like 10 minutes!" "insert 3rd reason!" for his drastic change in demeanor and personality, which, without context, are valid reasons for him to be a little different. trauma fucks you up man. we only see 10 minutes of him. but at this point im chalking it up to complete incompetence
it doesnt take that long to read a comic book guys. you could have done a little research, I know you can do it.
first off:
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[6th image id: Miguel's SPIDER-SENSE goes off! He races to the edge if the building and peers into an empty alley -- /end id]
LMFAO WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU MEAN "SPIDER-SENSE"
Unless you didn't get the total of TWO jokes that they made in ONE scene (the vulture fight scene), Miguel doesn't have a spider sense. at all. He has elevated senses, but he doesnt have a spider sense.
guys
guys.
you made TWO jokes IN A ROW about it. YOU WHACKED HIM IN THE HEAD TWICE WITH IT. HOW DID YOU FORGET
I cant help but laugh! this is a rookie mistake! these are seasoned writers! They could have done at least a little research, or at least remembered that he doesnt have one, no? is it that hard? or does his lack of a spider sense only matter when you're making fun of your least favorite character? thats what I thought.
this one is less funny. not to sound like a stereotypical comic nerd but this infuriated me a little bit I'm not gonna lie.
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[8th image id: tumblr user @/darksidecorner reblogged tumblr user @/spiderxpawz with:
They definitely didn't
a screenshot of the script reads:
AN INDUSTRIAL TANGLE OF HUGE PISTONS -- the literal DARK UNDERBELLY that undergrids Miguel's bullshit Utopia.
Miles doesn't know where to go... but he doesn't need to: SOMEONE YANKS him up into the safety of an alcove.
the user then continues:
This in particular made me PISSED because they quietly canonized that Miguel is CEO of Alchemax while conveniently ignoring that he did everything in his fucking power to BETTER Neuva York. Downtown wasn't built by him. It was built by people WAY before him.
I can excuse and defend some comic deviation, but THIS? Holy FUCK /end id]
I honestly cant tell if I find this part funny or pathetic because seriously. he did not do this. why are you blaming him for something he had nothing to do with. i dont think he decided "hey i should build a city for rich people over poor people because reasons" when he was like... not even alive. Alchemax did this before he was even sentient. it had always been this way since he was born. he also actively hated this decision. because he actively hates alchemax.
but right MIGUELS bullshit Utopia yeah HE did this that EVIL LITTLE BABY i cant believe him
kill me.
In conclusion:
I. . . Don't really know, to be honest. I'm still processing all this. I am genuinely disappointed and upset because this isn't okay. It never will be, and if it takes yet another blunt essay with absolutely no filter for people to understand it then so be it. I don't care if this comes off as mean. This is something I feel qualified to talk about and I will express my disappointment and anger if I want to.
All of the posts I reference I have reblogged within the last 24 hours of making this post, they shouldn't be that hard to find, but if you want the links to them here they are:
https://www.tumblr.com/spiderxpawz/735344322114977792/live-mexican-reaction?source=share
https://www.tumblr.com/404-505/735289664739606528/they-couldnt-write-miguel-as-a-drug-addict-so?source=share
https://www.tumblr.com/transmiguelohara/735289238625648640/cant-believe-the-writers-have-the-same-reading?source=share
if you want your image to be removed or for your link to be removed just ask and I'll do it. but currently im kinda bummed out and tired.
goodbye.
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decayanddesign · 2 years
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So Marvel’s out here ripping off smaller artists now
https://twitter.com/midiankai/status/1580902267460366336
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They edited it just enough that it isn’t immediately obvious, especially to non-artists, so here’s some replies pointing out the proof:
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Honestly, I’m glad I stopped watching their shows and films months ago, becuase between this and how they treat their CGI artists, it’s pretty clear that they don’t value artists in any way, shape or form whatsoever. Incredibly disappointing.
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magnificent-nerd · 1 year
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The Expendable Disabled Heroes of Marvel’s Infinity War
BY JOHN WISWELL 
(UNCANNY MAGAZINE | 2018)
"It’s the middle of the big Wakanda fight scene. Thor and Captain America banter about haircuts, M’Baku and Okoye crack skulls, and for a moment, Rocket Raccoon meets James Buchanan “Bucky” Barnes. The audience is ready to laugh the second the raccoon eyes up the veteran. They know what’s coming.
"Rocket compliments Bucky’s prosthetic arm, asks to buy it, and the audience tenses up.
"Bucky says it’s not for sale and returns to battle.
"Rocket mutters that he’ll steal that arm.
"And the audience laughs. I don’t."
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Begging y'all to read this article.
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miinsie · 4 months
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I love Christine and Stephen but can Marvel please make Strange more than just his love for her? They both have so much potential to be their own characters and have Stephen be more.... independent? I guess. The point is it is getting tiring seeing him be depressed and mope around over someone he has literally reconciled with in the first film just let him move on Marvel! Christine also deserves better than to just be a prop for his story
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superectojazzmage · 2 years
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People saying “She Hulk predicted the ‘misogynists/haters’ reaction to it” as if Marvel Studios and Disney haven’t been actively staging and provoking and exaggerating this sort of thing to frame themselves as “your friendly neighborhood woke corporation” and get y’all to defend their work from criticism and give them your money. And as if whining about people who hate your work IN your work isn’t, like, the most pathetic thing imaginable to do as a writer.
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gay-jewish-bucky · 11 months
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As an ex-fan I saw a really good take that I want to expand on that I think also applies to a lot of people who like (or defend, despite not liking) Peggy Carter, her (often impulsive and violent) abusive behaviour, and especially her Nazi ties; which go beyond being based off a Nazi (which should be more than enough on its own), and reaches into actively welcoming Nazis into the organization she created to "honor" a man who not only died trying to fight them, but was created to fight American complacency, and giving them the resources and access to infiltrate every single level of SHIELD.
Allowing themselves to understand and accept criticism against her, instead of brushing it off or twisting it, requires they sit with their own culpability, their own guilt in ignoring it and defending her for so long. For a lot of them, the ones that are generally pretty understanding people, they aren't really defending her, they're defending themselves for liking her.
They'd rather preform apologetics (including Nazi apologetics), embrace rad/fem ideology, intentionally misrepresent people and arguments against her, and silence or ignore the voices of groups negatively impacted by her deification (especially SA survivors, Jews, and fans of colour) so they can maintain a feeling of righteousness and innocence, rather than admit that they've made a mistake. To admit that is to admit their own biases and moral vulnerability. To admit they've perpetuated harm against groups they claim to ally with.
Admitting she's not an innocent angel/feminist icon who is the poor defenseless victim of hypocritical womanhaters, requires a level of maturity to be able to confront and admit one's own guilt, to acknowledge where one's privileges warp one's perspective, to hold oneself accountable, to learn and grow and be better, are skills they do not possess.
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purplehalnw · 2 years
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What makes me really angry about the Loki show is that its not even his show. Its really just about the TVA and the multiverse and Marvel needed to get people to watch it somehow so they just slapped Loki's name on it.
They took a beloved character that many people could relate to and said "nope lol he's just the fucking villain, all of his trauma isn't valid, he's the only one who needs to change" and completely changed his personality and dumbed him down. And then of course they used him being queer as a way to earn brownie points even though if you see the show at a first glance its not even noticeable and if you do look further into it you'll realize its actually misrepresentation. It makes me so fucking angry and sad to see one of my favorite characters being treated like this.
And what's kind of funny and depressing is Marvel is using the TVA to basically say "We should stop forcing people into these boxes of what we think they should be and just let them be who they really are" when that's what they're doing with Loki. Literally forcing this new personality on him and claiming its "character development" because they'd rather bait people for views and money than actually have good and consistent writing.
And also fuck Taika Waititi since he pretty much started this whole Loki character assassination project with Thor Ragnarok.
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I get so freaking sick of casual regular Marvel fans or hardcore Marvel fans and ones who call themselves "Loki stans" constantly calling Loki a narcissist just because the show said so. Please try to actual read & educate yourself on what narcissism really is instead of blindly misusing psychological terms like there some sort of fancy buzzwords. Loki is NOT a narcissist nor has he ever been one, those that say otherwise have either misinterpret Loki character altogether or only take in things they consume at surface level face value or failed to understand what nuance is. If anyone a narcissist in Loki life it would be largely Odin, who is a good example of a narcissistic parent who so obviously favor Thor over Loki & how Loki was & still is a scapegoat due to said narcissistic hypocritical parenting on Odin part. Really if I have to hear another MCU person mislabel Loki as a "Narcissist" I swear I'll eat my own hair.
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eiremauve · 2 months
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Tony's death made everything meaningless
If you take a character that is resilient and adaptable whose defining moment is bursting out of the cave that was intended to be his tomb and flying away and whose arc is about recovery and also about finding a family and whose heart is the heart of a series and kill him cause he is too bad to deserve a happy ending (it's redemption!) or his sacrifice needs to be permanent while another character gets his undone you are undoing everything good and hopeful about the series. You can fight the entire series for something and it is for naught cause you need to die cause some wizard told you however illogical and obviously stupid that is. Your characterization and arc mean nothing. Your family means nothing. There is no future, sashay off to the past.
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one of the things that’s frustrates me about the f4 casting isn’t that “it’s diverse” (which.. is it?) but rather that. i wish they’d just adapt characters of colours into film/tv instead of race ending white people into poc and then calling it a day. maya’s ethnicity impacts the story because she’s written as a woman of colour. the new dc blue beetle film, black adam, etc! characters ethnicities should impact who they are but marvel just slaps some melanin on white characters and calls it diversity (ie. moon knight). i’m thrilled for the south america rep that’s going to be there w pedro but c’mon. also while i know ebon is from jewish descent, i wish they’d picked someone who was actively practicing religiously too (the thing having a conversation with a rabbi i beg).
You're right; racially the cast isn't diverse at all, and that is what people will pick up on immediately. Sight happens first
While it would be great if MCU took more initiative and effort into making their characters not only more diverse but improving their story writing to match, like you said, I don't think that's going to happen unless 1.) Fans start verbalized this to those in charge directly, like via Twitter, and the ratings on sites like Rotten Tomatoes; and/or 2.) Fans impact MCU's money directly by not paying to see monochrome casts in theaters and not giving it views on Disney+
As a personal fan of DC Comics and having seen those films you mentioned, I can't help but agree with you on that aspect that those films wove together ethnicity and story in not-a-terrible way. However,l I have to disagree and say that both are good: in having stories that have ethnicity or race impact it, and sometimes when it isn't a center-focus
But either way, the MCU has slacked with this on all aspects. @ Kevin Feige on Twitter
Mod Palette
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gay-chef-boyardee · 2 months
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me watching my favorite stand alone series get consumed by a dying franchise in an attempt to revive it (they believe it's going to draw in new viewers when im reality it's just going to deter fans):
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magnificent-nerd · 1 year
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Content warning for:
Ableist remarks, and violence mention toward a disabled person
Screen shots taken today:
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James Gunn replies to a fan asking about Bucky's arm in the GOTG Holiday Special, and claims that Nebula (herself a disabled character with artificial limbs) "took a trip to Earth and tore it [Bucky's artificial limb] off his body because she was feeling Christmassy."
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This is truly horrible.
Not only is it graphic violence toward a disabled character for no reason at all, it also shows that this whole bit was pure Abelism from the start.
From writer's room to your screens, Ableist jokes for the sake of laughing at disabled people.
As fans it is up to us to say No, we don't accept this. We won't accept this.
Disabled characters and disabled fans deserve better.
MCU, do better.
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violet-moonstone · 5 months
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the MCU's rhetoric about political resistance/change is often so insidious. the only time we see people who want to change the status quo, theyre destructive and often incapable of feeling compassion for anyone outside of the group theyre fighting for. so the only two options are siding with the cruel antagonist who wants real change and the heroes who will make small concessions so that the audience feels good but ultimately they uphold the harmful status quo. I'm not saying this doesn't happen in real life, but when a trope pretty much becomes the default, you start to see the writer's political messages coming out. ESPECIALLY when the primary threat comes from exploited working class people/oppressed minorities and not the colonialist powers and corporations that put them in that position.
sidenote: when i watched black panther 2 and realized that the primary conflict was going to be black people fighting indigenous people and that western hegemony and exploitation of resources was just a side plot, I immediately lost all hope for that film. I loved the music, the visuals and the fight scenes, but the writing?? i was so disappointed. All the dissatisfaction I felt from Black Panther 1 came flooding back. Before they were pitting us against each other, this time it was against another oppressed group...hhhhhhh. anyway jokes on me for expecting different. I really just need to read The Deep (and if its anything like the song its based on, its probably much better executed than wakanda forever).
anyway, yes, the audience has the freedom to see things with nuance but i dont think most people will (because "its just a fun superhero move, why are you taking it so seriously?"), and I dont think the writers want them to - otherwise they'd start including more nuanced characters rather than villains who we are shown have to be defeated for the greater good, no matter how valid their arguments may be. and I understand that the vast majority of people are not watching superhero movies looking for nuance and depth but thats all the more reason why so much of the MCU's writing is concerning. Every time we're faced with a troubling political/ecological debate, the conclusion is that whoever tried to change things was in the wrong, and we'll make a small concession at the end so everyone feels somewhat satisfied and doesn't really have to confront any uncomfortable implications.
ex: infinity war shows us Thanos' eco fascism as the main (and only?) criticism of the overconsumption of resources. I may be wrong but I don't remember anyone talking about sustainability as vital solution or anything...and in FATWS the conversation is STILL about the pros and cons of the Snap - not anything to do with sustainability...because that would require the audience to be confronted with real life political implications that are bit too close to home. Even to have one or a few characters suggest an alternative and for Thanos to shoot it down because he doesn't trust people to be sustainable, and because he truly thinks killing people is the best possible plan (which makes no sense btw because it implies that all species are overpopulated at the same and that every single species in the universe consumes resources in the same way..they made movie!Thanos *seem* so intelligent but his thought process literally makes no sense. and fans bend over backwards to justify it because "hes the mad titan" even though you clearly cant use that defense based on the way he's written in the film. The writers clearly want us to see him as rational but cruel...anyway its not 2018 so let me stop beating the dead horse of this tired topic)
basically, theres rarely (if ever) a middle between the two extremes, because theres no room for that. There has to be a good guy and a bad guy...perhaps a well intentioned and misguided bad guy, but ultimately still a bad guy. The options are: pretty much nothing but minor things change and the problem still exists OR everything changes but it would require the violent villain getting their way and killing innocent people in the process.
anyway thank god for the spiderverse , which actually does the opposite (and thank god spiderverse is not directly part of the MCU and the writers actually have something to say). I think the loki show may be doing something similar but im not caught up so idk. loki to me feels like spiderverse but with less narrative cohesion
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clarks-letterman · 1 year
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will marvel ever stop idolizing tony stark.. did they not learn from homecoming and ffh?
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x-itzzzzzz-x · 10 months
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i think about the new spiderverse film every day it’s so hard to do anything else
still haven’t even seen it and i am still successfully avoiding spoilers (thankfully ) but the itch is still there. I am truly DESPERATE to see it and i am so excited for when i do. I love spider-man and spider verse is one of my fave films of all time (plus as an artist & film student i go insane every time i see it ) so i can’t get it out of my head !!!!!
afraid my hyper-fixation on Spiderman will rear it’s head yet again and i will have to interact with Marvel content :/
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lunarspiral1127 · 2 years
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So, that was She-Hulk.....yeah, it sucked.
Once again, the MCU released another show that was incredibly disappointing. But, this takes the cake when it came to finales. My god, there's so much wrong in this show that others have explained this better than I could. This is one of the worst MCU shows I've ever seen. Is it worse than Loki? I don't know, but it's pretty up there! It's definitely worse than Ms. Marvel. And it sucks, cause I love She-Hulk. The actors did their best to what they were given so they're not to blame.
Daredevil, Wong and Abomination were the best parts of the entire show, the main supporting cast (as much as I like Pug, Nikki, Mallory, and the parents) are just about supporting Jen like that's their whole purpose, the main antagonist and his goals were so stupid, the butchering of several characters and groups like Mr. Immortal, The Wrecking Crew, Intelligencia and Titania, most of the men are written as idiots, sexists, or incompetent jerks (with an exception of a few) in this show and that this show brings up plenty of double standards that have went on in this show. Like, Jen having photos of Steve Rogers' butt and back or her talking about whether or not he had sex, while mentioning his butt again. Not to mention, as I said before, she wants Daredevil to come back in the finale cause she has needs and she even made a joke about smashing Daredevil. She just wanted to bang him again. So, that's totally okay? What if the genders were swapped? Would it be okay then?!
There's also the whitewashing of an original black character that not many talk about because people were distracted with the twerking scene that happened in the same episode. Mentioning the Sokovia accords being gone in only a sentence but not knowing what was the cause of them being repealed or not even building it up, since we had a freaking movie where these accords played a factor in breaking the Avengers up.
And there's a lot more but other have explained it better than I can. I'll also say that most of the comedy wasn't good, this whole show was badly written, and the Daredevil episode was the best episode out of the nine. Alright, I'm done now.
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