things/aesthetic you associate with your moots please!
hi anonie!! it’s been a while since i’ve done tag games like this so LETS GAUR 🤩
im doing for the ones that i talk to most often ✨
@from-izzy my soulmate 🤞🏻(who clearly SHOULD be living in my city instead), sunricyeon!!, ✌🏻level-headed and ☝🏻dum-dum, purple 💜, bunnies 🐰, raccoons 🦝, in constant denial of her love life 😒, long calls & video calls, SAUR, music 🎶, “ALLY HELP ME 🥺”, fellow believer in God, concerts, has 19374848 plans to meet up but our studies/job preventing us to do so 😞 (but we will beat them and meet irl someday SOON BCS I MANIFEST)
@sungbeam my precious lil 妹妹 🫶🏻, blue 🩵, “hear me out….but another changmin potential wip/plot 🤡”, photocards, that wet tree rat pc, if talent was a person its her, care packages 📦, fellow introverts ✌🏻, the one who convinced me to purchase my sony headphones while we were videocalling in the store 🥹, my sleep paralysis demon, “ALLY JIEJIE”, my cutie wookie little sis 😔💗, but also goes 😐 whenever i talk abt sangyeon 🙄
@aimeecarreros the unhinged and wild one in the b*****, 1/4 of sangyeon’s whores, twerking ✨, the best gif maker ever 😤, “so elena…pretty pwease can you gif this for moi 🥺”, BBANGJU 👅, “CORREQUE ✌🏻”, insanely hilarious and unhinged memes and text messages 24/7, the moodmaker of the group, “haysss *inserts stripping meme*”, teasing me 24/7 🙄, pinterest, fashion 😍, bridal dresses 🤍
@snowflakewhispers the SAVAGE, maknae and the demon (lovingly) in the b*****, teasing me is her everyday job atp 🙄🙄🙄, mrs jacob bae, 1/4 of sangyeon’s whores, spitting fire 24/7 🔥, matching sony headphones 🤍, matching macbook colours 🩶, psych & kids 💗, the sunwoo to my eric, apparently is in a messed up relationship/situationship with someone who shall not be named 🦝, the moot who lives the closest to where i am 🥹 (so faster get your ass back here after uni ends)
@daisyvisions the unnie of the b*****, NAUR, that iconic zoom selfie 😌✨, constantly being distracted at work bcs of ✨unholy thoughts✨, podcast 🎧, 1/4 of sangyeon’s whores, also joined in on the fun with elena & ophelia on teasing moi 😔, jerry lee 🤤, doggo 🐶, newnudeshot 😏📸, photoism 🎞️, spongebob memes, BIG SEXC BRAIN 🧠, late night talks while working, always judging me for some reason 🙃
@justalildumpling my dongsaeng 👧🏻, sunricyeon!!, black 🖤, ptsd from windows turning from black to bright blue, “pull a j” aka doing and leaving assignments till the very last minute 😁, “guys…..”, “yall…..”, a simp 🤓, attracted to red flags men (but not anymore 😚), FOODIE CHINGUS, malatang, “guys….can we just call for like 20 mins max…i promise it won’t take long” = a 6-7hours call, late night (or early mornings) video calls, SHE IS A BEAUTY AN ICON AND SHE IS THE MOMENT 😍
@ethereal-engene my long-lost best friend 🥹, JU HAKNYEON 🍊, anime!!, men in glasses 🔛🔝, fellow chinese friend ❤️, cny 🧧, lion dances 🦁, WOOZI (ESP IN LONG HAIR 😩😩😩), matching hakkie pottery pcs 🤍, wips brainstorming ✍️, another cutie lil 妹妹 🥺, arms….and pecs 🤓, editing 👩💻, convos abt our studies/work life 💗
@kimsohn kim sunwoo, pinterest, “maya….i had a dream abt sangyeon….”, “oh!”, anime!!, that smiling and then speechless meme, sangyeon drenching himself in water 😀, “so when are you gonna write this”, sunric sluts, tbosas, coriolanus snow, always talking abt being on writers block with one another but eventually gets things done (and sometimes its long af), being caring 🥺, food!!
@quaissants 1/2 of my gremlins 👹, sends me lip gloss sangyeon 24/7, my twinnie 🤞🏻, same birthday & mbti 💗, speaks in such a soft manner like hello 🥺, genshin impact!!, ragnvindr bros ❤️💙, childe 🤓, angsty angst ❤️🩹, constantly looking out for me 🥹, men 😃, “i have selective reading”
@sanaxo-o another 1/2 of my gremlins 👹, unhinged as a person, sabrina carpenter 💗, flirty af but then i dont return the favour 😄, sends me sangyeon content 24/7, a great listener and gives me comfort, always checking up on others, ✌🏻level-headed and ☝🏻dum-dum, “LET ME BETA YOUR FICS”, pinterest, “Als”
@stealanity my unnie 🥺💗, always looking out for everyone, the big sister of the net, amazing as a person (i admire you loads), moodboards 😍, aesthetics ✨, a field of flowers 🌹🪻🌸🌺, brave (never afraid to speak up!!), i miss you sm unnie always 🫶🏻, calls me a cutie 🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺
@cloverdaisies CLO MY LOVE 💚, great britian 🇬🇧, fish & chips, “you have no rights ally ive revoked them”, “you dont love me anymore 🥺” aka clo’s way of making me feel guilty that i couldn’t visit her when i was back in EU (IT WILL HAPPEN ONE DAY I SWEAR I WILL BE BACK 😤😤😤), writing fics for one another 💗, STRONG ASS WOMAN 💪 (who juggles between work and uni all on her own 🥹🫂), “there’s a rat in my apartment”, phone & video calls (which we havent done in a while and we should again!!)
@juyeonszn my fawnie my bubba 🥹, coffee ☕️, zeneration livestream 🙌🏻, crying tgt, unboxing albums ✨, pcs collection, puppies 🐶, anime!!, big sexc brain 🧠, sunric sluts, INSANE MAKEUP LOOKS 😩, delulu is the solulu ✨, education 📚, never-ending talks on dc (which we haven’t done in a while i miss you loads 🥺), my fellow dancer 💃, if cutie was a person its fawnie 💗
@itsbeeble my pookie 🫶🏻, kim sunwoo, another big sexc brain 🧠, taylor swift 💛, eras tour ✨, “ALLY GO TO SLEEP”, eric sohn, ateez & svt!!, memes 24/7, exposing each other’s asses 😄, biker sunwoo 😩, delulu is the solulu ✨, another coffee buddy ☕️, talks abt uni/work life, always bouncing off ideas with one another
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Comfort Food
Japan is leaning into its cozy heartwarming bona fides and we’re liking what it’s giving. We'll discuss an amnesia show and two different food shows. Please eat before you watch any of these shows or you'll be so hungry.
Ben and NiNi discuss the Japanese BLs Jack o' Frost, Our Dining Table (Bokura no Shokutaku), and Naked Dining (Zenra Meshi).
Listen on Apple Podcasts
Listen on Google Podcasts
Timestamps
The timestamps will now correspond to chapters on Spotify for easier navigation.
0:00 - Welcome
1:15 - Intro
2:01 - Jack o' Frost
23:40 - Our Dining Table (Bokura no Shokutaku)
48:00 - Naked Dining (Zenra Meshi)
1:02:50 - The J-BL Victory Lap and the Food BL Flop
The Conversation: Now With Transcripts!
We received an accessibility request to include transcripts for the podcast. We are working with @ginnymoonbeam on providing the transcripts and @lurkingshan as an editor and proofreader.
We will endeavor to make the transcripts available when the episodes launch, and it is our goal to make them available for past episodes. When transcripts are available, we will attach them to the episode post (like this one) and put the transcript behind a Read More cut to cut down on scrolling.
Please send our volunteers your thanks!
0:00 - Welcome
Nini
Hello, hello! Your QL fandom aunty and uncle are here with giant sunglasses, brown liquor in a flask, a folded five-dollar bill to slip into your hand when no one is looking, lukewarm takes, occasional rides on the discourse, deep dives into artistry and the industry.
Ben
Lots of simping! I’m Ben.
Nini
I’m Nini.
Ben
And this is The Conversation. About once a season, we plan to swan in and shoot the shit on faves, flops, and trends that we’ve been noticing in the BL, GL, or QL Industry. Between seasons, you can find us typing way too many words on Tumblr.
1:15 - Intro
Ben
This spring Japan continued to lean into its cozy, heartwarming bona fides, and we're liking what it’s giving! This particular week, we'll be talking about Jack o’ Frost, Our Dining Table, and Naked Dining. As with everything in this season, Nini and I recorded our initial reactions to these shows either a week ago or months ago, and we're going to append our final thoughts to the end of this. So, sit back, listen to us talk about how Japan continues to demolish all of our hearts, and we'll see you on the other side.
Nini
Demolish indeed. Catch y'all on the flip.
2:01 - Jack o’ Frost
Nini
So, Jack o' Frost. Ben, what is Jack o’ Frost about?
Ben
Jack o' Frost is about a couple in about their mid-twenties that is falling apart but gets a second chance because one of them has an amnesia incident, and cannot remember anything related to their partner. The show unpacks the amnesia trope itself as a sort of perverted version of second chance romance, as a way to force the characters to examine some of the rigidity with which they've viewed their lines when it comes to other people.
We begin at a birthday party. Ikegami Fumiya—he's a salary man and he's been living with his boyfriend, Okusawa Ritsu, who is an artist or illustrator. For whatever reason he suggests they break up during this birthday party. Ritsu gets upset and leaves. Fumiya doesn't hear from him, and then the little brother calls him the next morning because he was hit in the head and seemed dazed. Over the course of the first episode we come to understand that Ritsu doesn’t remember Fumiya and anything related to him, but seems to remember everything else.
And so we spend the next couple of episodes with Fumiya sort of hiding their original romance from Ritsu because he was maybe embarrassed about the fact that they had just broken up and thought he had a chance to get things right this time. Eventually this blows up in his face as things come out, but the two of them have to unpack what being apart means. And we end up seeing them come back together as Ritsu realizes that maybe he was also slightly at fault for some of these things.
This show ended up being incredibly satisfying to watch. I am deeply opposed to the amnesia romance trope. It is one of the few things in BL that is almost a hard line for me because I don't like one person knowing that much more about the other one. It always makes me uncomfortable. Nini, what did you think about Jack o' Frost?
Nini
I loved it unreservedly.
On the technical side, it hit everything that I'm looking for in a show—all four of the filmmaking markers. Like, the direction was good. The writing was good. The acting was good. The production was good. So, like, from a filmmaking standpoint it hit the mark 10 out of 10. Love the story.
I, too, I'm generally not a fan of the amnesia romance. Let me actually take that back. It's not that I am not a fan of the amnesia romance. It's usually handled badly, and here it's handled really well. First of all, it's not soapy at all. It feels at first like Ritsu’s just foggy, like he got conked on the head. He's a little disoriented. But then as the story plays out, they're teasing out, “Oh no, he really doesn't remember Fumiya,” and, like, he thought that he would remember, and then he doesn't remember, and then it comes out that he doesn't remember.
And then the way that they deal with that is surprisingly realistic. They go from realizing that he doesn't remember Fumiya, and then that's at the end of one episode, and then the beginning of the next episode they're at the doctor! I'm like, “Okay, yes! I think I can rock with this show!” That's just such a simple thing that so many shows that are doing the amnesia storyline do not do.
As much as I don't agree, of course, with Fumiya's decision to withhold information from Ritsu. And the reason that he withholds that information…I understand why he felt desperate enough to make that move—the fact that it's a deliberate move, and it's clearly elucidated to the audience that it was deliberate. And why he was doing it—I think that that was important. I think normally that wouldn't have been laid out in the way that it was laid out to the audience.
I like that you see the impetus for the breakup throughout. The first thing that you see in the show is the breakup, and you're just like, “Why is this happening like this?” And then as you go through the show, and you see Fumiya trying to re-engage with Ritsu in this idea of having a new relationship—a fresh start—but you're seeing the same things crop up in their relationship that Fumiya said were a problem when they were breaking up in the beginning. And then at the end, you come right back to seeing the entire fight and break up, then and you understand everything that happened. You understand fully why Fumiya made the decision to do what he did. You understand fully what was going on with him and Ritsu.
The way the show is constructed…I generally don't like when shows are constructed like that—when it's kind of this mystery and you have to put together the pieces, but here it really works. I really enjoyed the acting. Honda Kyoya, who plays Ritsu is incredibly good in this. The couple play that the two actors are using is good. The intimacy between them is good. The way that the intimacy develops is good.
You get the sense of things being new and old at the same time between the two of them, which I really like. It feels correct for the story. I really like the show. I gave it a 9.5. I dinged it half a point for reasons that we're going to get into as we discuss the show. But this is an excellent show—almost gave it a 10.
Ben
I ended up giving this show a 10, because most of the time, for me, the question is what's the premise, what are the conceits, and then do you deliver? And the show does. It’s an amnesia romance about a couple that broke up, and all of the reasons why they broke up, why they're still being drawn back to each other—how does the amnesia fit into this? Where do other people—all this is executed really well.
Ritsu doesn't know what's going on, but Ritsu's little brother does know and he is not okay with this at all. He makes that abundantly clear to Fumiya right away, and Fumiya says, “I'm going to tell him. Just let me sort things first.” And he reluctantly agrees because the last that Shuji knew his brother was in a long-term committed relationship with a guy who seemed pretty good. And Fumiya is a pretty good dude!
What we eventually learn is that this is likely Fumiya's first real romance in a way? Like, I get the sense that he maybe knew who he was as a queer person, but hadn't had any real meaningful connections with another person until he was with Ritsu. What happens in their relationship is they settle into a domestic life—it's going pretty well. But they're in their mid-twenties, and they're trying to pursue their professional objectives. Ritsu relies on his clientele to provide opportunities for him and this means that in a lot of ways he's always on.
Like, some of us have had that partner who is entrepreneurial in nature, and so they have to talk to clients during personal hours all the time. And that can be really frustrating because it feels like your couple time is being given up for everyone else, and it makes you feel like maybe your partner doesn't want to be with you—they'd rather be doing this other stuff. Maybe they're bored with you? And that's often the wrong way to think about it! They're working hard because they're trying to create opportunities for both of you. They want to work so that you two can do other cool things together. And, like, the show underscores that beautifully because we learned that part of what Ritsu was doing with all this money he was getting was he had…booked a vacation for them to go back to the place where they first were intimate with each other—that they had hoped they could see during a winter season instead, so that they could do other things like use the hot tub and make a bonfire, and do some other cute stuff. That's what Ritsu had done.
And, again, Fumiya has to come to terms with this because he was like, “We should be over!” And then he realized that Ritsu was doing all this romantic stuff for him. He and the audience is left to wonder, “What if he hadn't gotten hurt? Would Ritsu have come back and they would have maybe talked about what was going on and worked it out? Or did they need this…unusual opportunity to see each other properly?”
Fumiya has this fight with Ritsu. After he had done a little surprise party for him, got him a really cute cake, and the two of them have a really satisfying couch bed scene. Honda Kyoya and Suzuki Kouske did a really good job there. We get this really satisfying oner from bringing the cake over, to eating the cake, to flirting with each other, to making out on the couch. That is so impressive to watch the actors, have pre-built those emotions before we started the shot, to execute that in the single take. It is so satisfying on so many different levels.
I don't really like when intimate scenes have a lot of cuts and edits in them because there's a visceral quality to just being in the moment with the characters. I don't mind the editing when we're remembering something that happened because we edit our own memories. But when we the audience are experiencing a first time with someone I like for those to be handheld shots and long takes so that we can stay with the characters in the moment.
What eventually happens when all of this lying comes out is they break up for very valid reasons. Like, “You lied to me,” but Ritsu's memories come back. Another reason why I forgive this show for doing amnesia: the other guy gets his memories back. And now that he's been able to reconcile what was going on, he realizes that, prior to this, he was also maybe withholding something from Fumiya. Like, he doesn't tell Fumiya that he had already known who he was for far longer, and had been holding a weird little crush on him. I don't think the two things are equal, but it forces Ritsu to have an understanding about what people are doing and why.
Like, Fumiya did lie to him, but it was a lie because he was insecure, and no one could have predicted this would go down. He still cared about Ritsu the whole time. He just panicked because he was feeling like he was losing his boyfriend.
Nini
This is why I dinged the show that half point, because…I didn't like that the show felt like it equated Ritsu's withholding of the fact that he had met Fumiya once before. He just ran into him on the beach and he developed this little crush. He held onto that, and then he randomly saw this dude in a cafe and he recognized him. That's the quote-unquote “secret” that Ritsu is holding from Fumiya. It's not that I feel like the show equated the two, because I don't feel like the show equated the two. But they considered them too similarly for my comfort, which is why I dinged the show a half a point. But only a half a point because, in the end, does it really matter why Ritsu decides to forgive Fumiya? It doesn't to me. I am one of those people who believes in people having all the information and then deciding what they're going to do with it.
People make decisions about love all the time that don't make any sense. I am a person who really believes in love itself being a decision, and a decision that one should take with their eyes open. So, the fact that Ritsu now knows everything and he decides to forgive Fumiya and go back to him is all that I need personally. Like, you know all the information? You're good with this? You love this person, and this person loves you, and that's the way you feel? Good. Go with it. That's where I ended up, so I felt in a way—for me anyway—in the way that I conceive of love. The show didn't need that, which is why I only dinged it a half point.
Ben
So the reason why it works for me is the implication of the withheld knowledge about Ritsu having a crush on him before is that it implies that Ritsu had been holding back emotionally in their relationship. So Fumiya's uncertainty about where they stood was a little bit valid in that Ritsu hadn't put all of his cards on the table, and it left Fumiya feeling unsteady in their relationship.
Nini
If I squint I can see that, but I would have to squint.
Ben
That's okay, but like you said, like, it doesn't necessarily matter, but that's the way I ended up reconciling that.
I liked the way everyone knew what was going on and was encouraging them even down to Ritsu's ex encouraging Ritsu to show a little more patience with Fumiya than he showed him when they were together. Now that's growth.
Nini
I loved the relationship between Ritsu and his ex. It felt very real.
Ben
[laughs]
Nini
I have exes like that! When we broke up I hated them and I never wanted to see them again and then like years later we're friends and they're just like, “Oh, please don't do this shit with this person that you did with me. Figure it out.”
I like that his ex is like, “Yeah, I noticed that this is your boyfriend because he was glaring at me. Why did you invite me over to your house?” And then he realizes that Ritsu doesn't know that Fumiya is his boyfriend [Ben laughs] and he then he's like, “Okay I'm—I'm removing myself from this situation, but how would you go talk to this dude? I think you need to talk to this dude.”
He sees everything that's happening, and he doesn't insert himself, but he does try to gently shove Ritsu towards figuring it out for himself.
Ben
I really really appreciate how effectively the chemistry works between Suzuki and Honda here, that I genuinely believed their characters were into each other. Every single time these two characters have to do on-screen intimacy—in any way—it hits really well between, like, the flashback to the first time they, they had sex at the cabin they stayed in, to the pre-breakup makeout they had on the couch, to the gentle ways they touch each other—consider each other when they're existing in the same space together. They feel…very familiar with each other…in a way that was so satisfying for me as well.
Nini
You know I have to say it. The kissing is bad!
Ben
I think it's fine!
Nini
The intimacy is fantastic. Like I said, the couple play, the actual skinship work that they're doing—that's all incredibly good—like, you feel the heat. But the kissing is bad.
Ben
I'm [gonna] let you have it.
Nini
Okay. I need them to at least do more than, like, gently graze their lips against each other’s. [laughs]
It feels silly to kvetch about that when the intimacy is so good. I felt all the things that you're supposed to feel when you're looking at the intimacy onscreen. It feels hot. It feels close. You get all the feelings you're supposed to get…It's just that the kissing is bad, from a technical standpoint.
I'm letting it slide, and it's not my intention to…bitch about this…That's just me nitpicking. The important part of the heat and the kissing and all of that is the understanding of where these two people are in their physical relationship, and I get all of that. It doesn't make me question whether they're into each other or not. It is very clear that the two characters are extremely into each other, and that they want to touch each other, and that they want to be intimate with each other, and that they want to be around each other. It's just really me nitpicking.
Ben
I really just admired this show so much because I'm always complaining that we only ever see shows about boys getting together, and I want more shows about boys staying together. And this is a show about boys staying together! Like, in a roundabout way, ‘cause they're technically cheating by doing an amnesia plot, so they're getting together again…but fundamentally, it's a show about a couple in crisis saying, “We're probably going to still be in crisis, but I'd rather be in crisis with you than lonely without you.” I just think that's really beautiful because that's the work of a long-term relationship.
It's making the choice to choose each other constantly. Infatuation falls off. It's about trust in the long term, and that's what these two were able to finally get to with each other. Like, you have to work towards each other and decide who you want to be to each other long term, and what kind of life you want to build with each other, and that's the biggest thing that I think Ritsu hadn't really properly communicated to Fumiya, because Fumiya is like a salaryman-type.
Like, he's reliable. He does a lot of their cooking. Like, it's clearly his apartment. He's the one making the long-term choices for them in terms of keeping them physically whole. And Ritsu as the artist, you expect him to bring a lot of more of the the life and the other aspects of this to their thing—and he does!—like that's the whole thing with uh the secret gift of the, the second trip thing is he was trying to do that, but he doesn't say these things to Fumiya. He does these things quietly.
He does it through maybe his art sometimes, which he doesn't always show Fumiya, and he has to say these things directly because Fumiya can't just understand his way through that—which is actually kind of radical from a like, from an Eastern storytelling perspective. Like, they're very big on the whole “You should just know” thing and like it's kind of nice that this show is like, “Yeah, but he didn't. So, you should tell him.”
Nini
I take your point. I feel like a lot of the time, there's this idea that you're doing all these things—people should just know. And no, people don't know. You have to say the thing, and I like that more romance is leaning towards saying the things.
Ben
The show is good! Like let let's let's let's be clear! This show is very good! [laughs] And it surprised us! Like I was not expecting this show to be good.
Nini
I’m very, very glad that I watched this. LIke I said, Jack o’ Frost was a 9.5 out of 10 for me, and my ding was really a me thing. But this is a 10 show. I can acknowledge that this is a 10 show.
We're in the business of recommending, which I sometimes am—I would recommend Jack o’ Frost. I think it handles a subject that I usually do not enjoy in a way that I did enjoy. The filmmaking is excellent. I had a note in my notes about how much fun the set designer and set dressers must have had on the show.
Ben
They definitely did, because they must have had fun dressing up that apartment.
Nini
That apartment looks like they had so much fun designing and dressing that.
Ben
We're not necessarily the best set design analysis people. So, if some of you are very good at picking out these things in the set design, I would love to read your posts about that! Please send them to us because there's a lot to pick apart in the background of this whole show.
Nini
Ritsu’s desk alone. There's a shot in particular over Ritsu's desk that I just want to pause and look at it. The show is gorgeous. It's really well done. Go have a look-see if you haven't looked at it already.
Ben
It's a good show! I can't recommend this show enough! Y'all should really go out and watch it.
23:40 - Our Dining Table (Bokura no Shokutaku)
Nini
Our Dining Table. Ben, what is Our Dining Table about?
Ben
Our Dining Table is about two 23 year-old men meeting each other at a very turbulent time in their lives, bonding over their shared affection for one of the guy's little brother, and then learning to better take care of themselves and each other by learning to cook more together.
We meet our protagonist, Hozumi Yutaka, played by Inukai Atsuhiro, as he's working for an architecture firm, and he eats sort of the same lunch every day on a park bench outside, and about a seven-ish year old boy walks up to him who's very precocious. Asks him about his rice ball, and asks if he can have it. Yutaka doesn't really know what to do with this but the young boy, whose name is Tane, his brother Minoru runs up, apologizes for the brazenness of his brother. And the next day when they come to apologize, the little boy asks if he can come over to teach them how to make the rice balls because his brother does a terrible job with it.
What starts as a simple hangout with these two brothers, one who's 23 and out of school, the other who's 7 and very precocious, becomes this incredibly lovely friendship that starts to boil very slowly into a romance, and very much becomes a story about what it means to choose your family, whether you were born into them or not.
It's a truly lovely little production and is probably one of the most wholesome things we've watched this year.
Nini
I…loved it. It’s so layered. It is about all the things that Ben is saying it's about. Finding family, choosing family. It's about learning to let go in some ways of things that happened to you in your past, but it's also a retrospective on grief. Because the reason that Minoru is taking care of Tane is that his mom died. And when his mom died, his life just kind of stopped for a bit, and he is now taking care of his little brother so that his dad can work and support them.
Yutaka is…stunted from things that have happened in his childhood that we later discover are things that he held onto—some things that he misinterpreted, some things that he interpreted correctly, but also didn't let go of. And over the course of the story, he learns to let go of some of these things. There are things about meeting Minoru and Tane and their dad—the Ueda family—that give Yutaka the strength to face certain things about his past. And that leads to him reconciling in a way with his adoptive family. It leads to him finding this new family in the Uedas.
It's something else, and it's so well made. Production, direction, acting, writing. Top tier. Top tier stuff. I had an ache in my chest watching this show, and that ache was simultaneously happy and sad.
Ben
I know what you're talking about. Both Yutaka…and Minoru…are carrying around a great deal of grief and there's a lot on them. We learn that Yutaka is adopted in the family he's part of because his original parents passed away, and he had a very difficult time when he first moved into the Hozumi household. They recontextualized some of this later to show that maybe Yutaka took certain things a little too hard, but Yutaka's very emotionally stunted by these sort of things. He doesn't really develop a whole lot of friends and he's kind of a loner.
One of the things that's interesting is he can make rice balls, but he doesn't actually cook a lot of complex and diverse foods that often. It's his desire to…befriend this family that actually brings out a lot of his cooking skills, because he has a natural knack for some of it because he's read some stuff. But it's fun watching him learn how to do things along the way, and it's fun seeing a budding friendship/relationship make someone more sociable with other people in their lives.
Like, this is classic romance. I eat this shit up every time.
Yutaka’s really not that engaged with other colleagues at work. When he impulsively agrees to make bentos for the boys before they go out to the zoo one day, he ends up asking his co-worker—who's been wanting to befriend him for a while—to teach him how to make a bento. One of the lovely parts of that is he messes up quite a few times—he ends up practicing making the bento every day almost for weeks and getting feedback from his coworker until he can do it right. And that, for me, is just such a lovely moment. Yutaka is new to trying to cook consistently for other people, and I like that Minoru also picks up more food skills along the way. There's a lot of “food is love” stuff that's done very well in this.
Minoru tries to make sure that he can make the dishes that he remembers his mom making for him because he doesn't want his little brother to not also have a fond memory of those dishes as well, and that's really, really beautiful.
There's just a really…almost understated way that this show allows its characters to express affection. Very early in the show, Minoru is clearly-taken with Yutaka. Iijima is giving just absolutely enamored smiles at Inukai the entire time, and it is so convincing.
We get to this really interesting misunderstanding that felt super queer in about the late middle of the show, where in a very sort of…intimate moment, Minoru…kisses Yutaka on the cheek, but then feels like he overstepped, and Yutaka's not very good at expressing his feelings so he's just kind of silent about it. Then they meet up to talk about it, and Minoru misreads Yutaka's…silence for…anxiety or embarrassment, and essentially breaks up with Yutaka?
That felt super queer to me. You don't know if people are going to be receptive to what might be a huge change in their lives, and so you prepare yourself for the disappointment. I talked about this once before—or multiple times on this podcast—about the way internalized homophobia really demolishes your brain and blinds you to maybe what's happening in front of you, and I was not expecting this very heartfelt little cooking show to delve very directly into that.
Nini
I don't have anything in my show notes for this show, because I literally watched it just sighing at the screen. Everything was so well observed, everything felt so real. Everything was very gentle. The show is extremely gentle. Nothing feels harsh–not the grief, not when there's any kind of anger, when there's confusion or sadness—none of it feels harsh. It's all very gently done. The show treats the characters incredibly gently. The show brings the characters together incredibly gently. The show has a lot of heart. It feels kind of like eating warm soup on a cold day.
[Nini laughs]
I'm not always able to be verbose or coherent about the shows like those, because they just bypass the brain and they go straight into my heart. It's not always easy to talk about them when they do that.
Ben
I have a question for you, then.
Nini
Okay.
Ben
We learned from some of our friends…that the conversation that happens in the Hozumi household, revealing that Yutaka’s adoptive brother was trying to take care of him, was added for the show. How do you feel about that inclusion, and do you think it's better to have given us those insights into the Hozumi family?
Nini
It doesn't seem like this is a reversal of anything, just a deepening. I like…that Yutaka is—not wrong—because he's not wrong about the things that he experienced when he first joined the Hozumi household. His brother Yuki was quite mean to him, but that is reframed a little bit as him being maybe a little jealous.
It's that thing when a new kid comes into the family. Usually this happens when kids are younger but he was a little bit of a shit about Yutaka joining their family, and the parents weren't very proactive in ensuring that that was shut down. So, it's the first impression that Yutaka has of Yuki, and it has stuck through everything. It stuck to the point where it made him mentally erase the ways in which Yuki was good to him subsequent to that, which I found super realistic in terms of how memory works.
Yutaka sort of went into his shell after that initial hostility. That changed him. It altered him, and he didn't really come back out of that shell until he met the Uedas. They kind of gave him the courage to go back to his family—because he's been avoiding his family. The impression is that he's been avoiding his family since he left the nest. Probably since he went to college. Probably still while he was living in the house.
He held onto his hurts. He misunderstood attempts to pull him back out and nobody really knew what to do, so they just kind of let it sit and it festered a little bit. Because he's now gained the courage to go back into the house and see his family again, he is rewarded for that courage by having these things reframed for him to understand that: yes, his family does actually love him. Yes, they want him to be an integral and active part of them. I like it.
A lot of people I know didn't like it because they think that it's a redemption for the family, or it undercuts Yutaka's pain. I don't think that it undercuts Yutaka’s pain. I actually think that it makes it more tragic in certain ways. That over the years they couldn't resolve this, but also makes it more satisfying that he finally was able to resolve this. There is a sense of relief that you get watching Yutaka make peace with, and in some ways, return to his adoptive family. That was really lovely. I quite enjoyed that.
Ben
I really liked it because I don't think Yutaka can be a good member of the Ueda family without…gaining some sort of closure with how he felt about how he joined the Hozumi family.
I don't think it's about redemption for anyone or forgiving anyone. It's about Yutaka appreciating that love itself is not straightforward. It was about him recognizing that, yeah, his adoptive older brother is a little stiff, and maybe they'll never really be close, but they're also not enemies. And it allowed him to see that the Hozumis may not necessarily give him the affection that maybe he wanted directly, but they do genuinely care about him and his well-being and sincerely consider him a member of their family.
And that's something that Yutaka has to process and accept, and it's that realization that people have been trying to pour love on him his whole life that finally kicks him out of his freeze response to Minoru expressing affection for him directly. That allows the two of them to finally cross a threshold and start to be something more to each other.
Speaking of which! I really love the way Iijima played Minoru as somebody who was clearly aware of his own queerness. That was kind of understated in his performance, but he was clearly familiar with the fact that he was bisexual.
Nini
That sort of comes to light when his ex-girlfriend comes to see him. The way that he is with her—and it's on multiple levels. It's the level of: He left school when his mother died to help take care of Tane, and here's this person who he clearly has some kind of history with coming to find him and being like, “Look, how long are you going to do this?” But it's like she doesn't understand him at all, and it feels like she doesn't understand him on multiple levels.
She doesn't understand him on the familial level of why he would put his life on hold to take care of Tane, and she doesn't understand him probably on the queer level as well. Because she's here aggressively trying to make her play, and he’s having a whole other relationship basically. The way that he shrinks with her I found very effective.
Ben
IijIma is very, very good, and he does so much with his physicality in this show.
Nini
You can see the affection towards Tane and the kind of joking relationship he has with his dad. You can see when Minoru starts to fall for Yutaka, and you can see how he gradually is falling deeper and deeper and it's really all through the body language. There is work in the facial expressions and all of that, yes—both the micro expressions and the bigger ones—but the body language really. He starts turning his entire body more towards Yutaka when he talks to him. He sits closer to him when they're eating. There's a lot of, like, little things, some of which are probably in the direction, but also some which are just in Iijima’s physicality in playing the role. I really enjoyed watching him do that.
Speaking of the physicality of the role, the actor I, think his name is Kuuga who plays Tane?
Ben
His name is Maeyama Kuuga.
Nini
Such a delight! Such a delight. So lovely. That kid is going places. He's perfect!
[Ben laughs]
He works perfectly. No notes.
Ben
I saw an interview with Inukai and Iijima, where they talked about how, because they had to do a lot of long takes because Japanese cinema has a very strong stage tradition. There was a lot of necessary improvisation.
Maeyama Kuuga does a great job, but he's still a kid and he's going to stumble over his bits a little and they're going to have to work around him to make sure that the goal of the scene is accomplished, and there's a lot of giving Maeyama an understanding of what they're trying to do and why they're trying to do it so that he's invested in trying to do it, and playing around what he's going to give them. And it was very clear that he had a good time while working on this.
You mentioned the direction. As Tane gets closer to Yutaka, he starts to sit closer to him when they're having their meals together. Like, you mentioned the lunch with the ex-girlfriend. She was super rude to Tane when he spilled some juice on her or whatever, but later in the same episode he spills some juice on Yutaka, and Minoru starts to worry that Yutaka will also get mad, but Yutaka was only concerned that Tane might have hurt himself and immediately gets up and it's like, “It's okay, we can just change clothes.”
Yutaka is treating Tane in a gentle way that he wishes that he had been treated when he was younger and that extends to the way he also treats Minoru, because Minoru's relationship with his little brother is important. You can't just…start a romance with someone who's filling a parental responsibility if you're not also prepared to participate in some parental responsibilities. Whether Yutaka understood that consciously or not he adapted very quickly to it.
It's funny because Tane is the reason that they know each other, so this isn't something that he, like, met Minoru. They thought each other were cute, and then he's like, “I guess I'll deal with the kid.” Like, he's here because the kid asked him to be here originally, not the brother.
Nini
Tane brought him into things. Tane was so insistent that Yutaka be part of this that Minoru actually started looking at him. We got, of course, backstory later in the show that…Minoru had run into Yutaka once before even though he didn't remember it. Tane has, I guess, kept bringing Yutaka back to Minoru at different points in time, I guess?
Ben
Beautiful. I love it.
Nini
It's really super sweet. The the first time it happened, which was around the time that their mom died. The whole interaction between Yutaka and Tane then, which Minoru didn't remember until later, actually helped start pull Minoru out of the immediate grief of his mother's death to the point where now he's at a place where it's more manageable. And then he meets Yutaka again. He’s still got Tane, he’s really stressed out. And he calms down almost when Yutaka comes into their lives, because he is incredibly frazzled and flustered when Tane first interacts with Yutaka.
And then over the course of all these dinners and weekends and whatever that they're spending together, you see him calm right down even when Tane is throwing tantrums, even when there's a lot of stressy stuff going on—Tane’s not well, Tane’s this, Tane’s that. He's more calm even when more stressful things are happening because Yutaka’s there.
And then in comes Ueda-san just to seal the deal! He is one of the best dads that we've seen in all of BL.
Ben
I love Ueda Koji so much, oh my God. He literally picked his son up by the scruff and threw him out of the house and was like, “Go find Yutaka and fix it! [Nini laughs] Right now!” I loved it.
Nini
It was so funny, and you're the one who pointed out—because I hadn't even realized—that every time they cook, they never leave any food for Ueda-san.
Ben
They never do! [laughs]
Nini
[laughs] It's so terrible! And he's always so nice about it! He's always like, “Aw, shucks!”
Ben
I really like that one of the core themes of this show is: “Love is hard, and love does not come without the risk of loss. You will experience loss by loving some people, but you still have to love them regardless because it's what makes life worth living.”
Nini
I do like that they didn't end the show on Minoru and Yutaka getting together. They went a step beyond that because Minoru and Yutaka… This is not going to be some kind of happily ever after from them. They're both unlearning so much, and there are going to be stumbles, which is why I like the show going past the “we're together now” moment into Yutaka directly tackling his fear of loss, and beyond that into the special about some of the misunderstandings because these boys are not the best communicators—even though they're learning and trying. I really like that we sort of got a step into how their relationship is going to function and the things that they're going to learn being in a relationship with each other because you know you and I are the “tell us how these boys stay together” people and [laughs] I feel like we got a little bit of an insight into that by the end of the show.
Ben
I really liked that Minoru is going back to school, and I like that a big part of it is…he wants to stand beside Yutaka because Yutaka is a working adult. I like that in so many ways, like, leaving school when his mom died was a part of his grief. And, like, going back to school in so many ways communicates that he's finally come to terms with it and can focus on his own goals again. Which is interesting because, like, the ex-girlfriend—it's what she wanted for him, but she was kind of selfish about it.
I also like that we're still seeing them developing at the end. Like, this show isn't “and then they lived happily ever after.” I like that we're leaving them at the beginning of what feels like something that can really work that they're still figuring out.
Nini
Overall, this is a 10 show. Ben, is this a 10 show for you?
Ben
Oh, absolutely! Like, no questions about it. Go watch it. I'll be watching it again.
48:00 - Naked Dining (Zenra Meshi)
Nini
And now Naked Dining—Zenra Meshi. Ben, what is Naked Dining about?
Ben
A Japanese salary man who secretly overperforms at work who, about six months after his grandmother dies, receives some time-delayed mail from her encouraging him to head back to his hometown and take care of some things at her house. While there he runs into a young man who was a friend of his grandmother's who has been taking care of the house. After going through some of her things, he decides he wants to complete the culinary journey she had taken herself on. As she had gotten older and sick, she decided to do a last form of maybe, like, international travel by preparing foods from other cultures using the appropriate ingredients, and this young man—who works at a grocery store—was helping acquire these ingredients for her.
The two of them start hanging out on Saturdays to follow through on her path, and it becomes a really interesting examination of some ideas about different parts of the wider LGBT acronym…? Gets a little muddled towards the end unfortunately, but I guess we'll get into that here in a second.
But basically it's a Japanese food BL we had a mostly decent time with until the end.
Nini
I feel like it had a lot of ideas…and it cycled through them just one after the other—just idea after idea after idea—but none of the ideas are really taken through to a conclusion. None is really a through line through the whole show. It's not that none of them emotionally land because they absolutely emotionally land, but they also feel like you don't get to sit with any of the feelings that you have about anything that happens because the show was then sort of onto the next idea and onto the next idea
I was just kind of left with a, “Oh, well that was interesting and you know, helpful…But what happened to this? It just went away?”
Ben
I feel like two or three different show pitches were being merged in this.
They have this whole conceit with the naked dining. So Souta has this thing where every day when he goes home after secretly overworking he makes himself a bowl of ramen, and then he strips off his clothes to enjoy his food without anything in the way. At first this was kind of a cool idea for me that your clothes are a costume, and you're wearing the salary man persona when you leave the house. Food is one of the few tangible joys he has in his life, and so he's stripping off this costume so he can be closer to the food, but I feel like the show never interrogates the emotional core of why he does this?
And then it ends with he and Mahiro doing it together…and it just feels unearned as a shortcut to say “well they fucked.”
Nini
I understand the, the concept of Mahiro accepting that part of Souta, but the thing I didn't get that maybe I wanted to understand is why Mahiro might find that idea appealing. When it comes to the two characters, I feel like I have a really good handle on Souta. I feel like I understand his thought processes and his motivations, and I feel like I am emotionally connected to Souta. Mahiro is a little more, like, slippery for me.
Mahiro just feels…sad…and, like, he's been nursing this crush forever…but I don't have a sense of who Mahiro is outside of the way that he feels about Souta.
Ben
Souta was really kind to him when he was a teenager, and he fell for Souta, but Souta didn't even see him that way at all. And it seemed like it twisted around whatever sort of other personal struggles he was having at that time and, like, get fucked with his own sense of worthiness and he just really never recovers from it.
I got frustrated because around episode like 7 or 8. Mahiro kisses Souta when he's sleeping. Souta is confused because he's feeling things from Mahiro and asks him—kind of innocently—if they can kiss again because he's trying to understand how he's feeling. Like, “You kissed me, can I kiss you back to see what's going on?" and Mahiro gets upset because he doesn't want Souta to kiss him if Souta can't kiss him like he likes him. Which, fine. I get that. I tell boys all the time, “Don't flirt with me unless you mean it.” But I didn't think that was fair because he had initiated things with Souta, and that was one of the big struggles on the back end—like, even down to the final episode.
So they've gone on this huge arc.They’ve been cooking these foods together. Souta’s finally figuring himself out. Souta’s female coworker…showed up to Mahiro and was like, “Of course, you know this means war,” and she puts on her eye black—
[both laugh]
—and they're going at it trying to fight for Souta's affections or whatever. Great. Amazing stuff.
And, like, she accepts her defeat as gracefully as she can. I did not hate this character—she got on my nerves a little bit—but she treated Mahiro like a true romantic rival, and I got mad respect for that.
Souta is called away for work. And this show does some New Siwaj bullshit to us by, like, giving us a flashback to high school to be like, “Once! In high school! He said to his homies that he wants to connect Japan to the rest of the world! Which means that now that he's gotten a job in Singapore! He's never coming back!”
And it's, like, you guys are in, like, a real relationship here. You guys have gone through all of the things! And then Souta comes back and is like, “I've made a decision without you! I'm going to stay in Japan!” Like okay, whatever.
And Mahiro's, like, mad about this! And Souta has to grab him to keep him from running away again, and I was like, “God damn, bro, we have eight minutes left in this show!”
Nini
I don't know whether they felt like they needed to fill time or—I don't know what it was—but the plot really got tortured, like… You're right that it feels a little New Siwaj-y, because the show is going along pretty well—slow start! Yeah, it gets to the middle, and there are these really good ideas that are building up here. And then…somewhere around the time that Souta asks Mahiro if he can kiss him things just kind of, like, fizzle?
It felt like they wrote eight episodes worth of stuff and had to stretch it to fit 12.
Ben
It feels like there were 12 recipes, and they really, really wanted to make sure that each recipe had its own episode. This was also a little bit frustrating for me because I don't always feel like the food of the episode matched with the tone that was going on.
Nini
I feel like the food didn't fit at all! I also wasn't sure what the theme of each episode was because it wasn't always clear.
Ben
There's a little bit of an idea with the food, like, the dishes get more complex over time, and Souta, who doesn't have a whole lot of kitchen skills, is picking some up along the way. This was actually really good and I really enjoyed this. I liked that by the end Souta was able to cook along with Mahiro even if there were still new techniques for him to pick up. That was incredibly satisfying. The way that the cooking itself feels is used well in the show but, like, the specific dishes don't always feel like they resonate for the episode—and that's the problem! I can't remember any of the specific dishes they made, which is kind of frustrating for me in a show that was so much about the food.
Nini
I think I'm not accustomed to Japanese drama being this slack. That's the best word I can use to describe it. It feels slack. It feels like there's way too much room in it somehow…and they're just kind of ambling around within the drama.
I haven't seen a Japanese drama that feels this purposeless.
Ben
And that's, I think, the heart of it. With most Japanese dramas I know if I care about it almost instantly like they usually set up a really solid premise, and part of what ended up really frustrating me with this show is I feel like the “naked dining” as part of the core premise is deeply undercooked and doesn't develop into something really interesting. Like they were so close!
As a result it ends up kind of feeling weirdly flat by the time we get to the end.
Nini
You know what I feel? This is gonna sound real weird but follow me on this. I think that this kind of story, that the story—these stories that they wanted to tell—would have worked better as an anthology or something where they were following multiple couples.
Ben
I agree…and I feel like they could have focused on the role of the dish a lot more.
Nini
This feels like it was originally like a Midnight Diner or a Three Star Bar in Nishi Ogikubo, and I feel like the if it was gonna be 12 episodes, and it was gonna be focused around what it's focused around, because they really seemed to want to focus it around these recipes, they needed to use up the room. And one of the ways that they could have used up the room, with even some of the same writing and some of the same stories they wanted to tell, would be to separate those stories up over multiple individuals or multiple couples.
And I feel like the show kind of had the right elements for it as well because one of the best episodes of the show is the episode where they have to have the anniversary party for the boss at work. It just feels like the strongest episodes are when they actually pulled somebody else in, like when they did the Taiwanese hot pot with Ryu.
Ben
Great episode.
Nini
I think what happened at the back end of the show is that it spent way too much time with just Souta and Mahiro.
Ben
You're correct. Like, the two episodes you highlighted: the episode where they cook for the boss, and the episode where they hang out with Ryu, are interesting because when they're around other people, they naturally start to turn into a little bit of a team. It's why the Ryu hotpot episode works so well because they're being super awkward with each other. We can feel that their dynamic is struggling and Ryu is like, “I'm going to fix these gays, and then I'm going to go to sleep.” The perfect elder gay.
[Nini laughs]
Nini
And I love that and he really did try! And then Mahiro’s bullshit got in the way.
Ben
Like that—that's the whole show! Like things were going well and then Mahiro's bullshit got in the way and we don't even know why.
Nini
Mahiro, I understand why you're afraid of this, right? But you kissed the man, and he's literally standing there like, “Can we try this again?”
Ben
Take responsibility for what you did!
Nini
And you're just like… “Naw.”
There were times honestly, when I just wanted to yell at Mahiro “Shit or get off the motherfucking pot already. I'm so tired of you.” [laughs] I got tired of Mahiro! And then I started feeling bad for my man Souta, because he was trying!
He was trying so hard. He was trying hard to be honest, he was trying hard to be open. He was trying really hard to understand himself because he didn't want to dick Mahiro around because he cared about him. So he is literally trying to work so much of the shit out by himself and only coming to Mahiro when he couldn't work shit out on his own anymore and he needed to work it out with the person that he's feeling all these things about—which is normal! And understandable!
And Mahiro treated him like he had kicked his dog. I got so frustrated with Mahiro. I just really did. And the thing is I understand! Okay, yes, you're scared. Okay, fine. Get it. But I'm still frustrated with you, man.
[sighs] Anyway, all that to say: Ben gave it an 8. I gave it a 7.
I had a very visceral and personal reaction to certain parts of this show and then the rest of the show let me down, so I feel more disappointed by it than Ben does I think. Which is why, for me, it's a 7.
Ben
I think, like, having sat here for the last 40 minutes unpacking it, I'm probably going to lower to 7, and it becomes a 7 because it has “failure to execute the core premise stuff,” and I feel like that's a big thing for me. Like, if you at least complete the core premise, but just stumble around it, you can get an 8. And I don't think this show really completes the core premise. So I think this is gonna be a 7 for us. So that's a chop unfortunately.
1:02:50 - The J-BL Victory Lap and the Food BL Flop
Ben
All right! We're back for the outro! We watched Jack o’ Frost, Our Dining Table, and Naked Dining. All right, panel! Tens or chops? Jack o’ Frost, Nini!
Nini
[laughs] 10.
Ben
10 for me!
Our Dining Table!
Nini
10.
Ben
10 for me!
Naked Dining?
Nini
Chop.
Ben
Two chops! [Slaps desk and laughs]
Nini
So, where does that leave you feeling about Japan and Japanese BL drama, and where does that leave you feeling about food drama?
Ben
Oh, interesting. For Japanese dramas…I feel…good. I have a lot to feel good about, though.
So, Jack o’ Frost completed the MBS Drama Shower Year One set of outings, which I mostly really enjoyed. Drama Shower 2 has started. We get a whole ‘nother the year of MBS content. I feel great!
Our Dining Table—I do not know what that particular network is going to do next.
And even though Naked Dining wasn't great per se there were good elements in it. So, like, it's not saying “This is horrible. Goodbye. Boo.” Like, even though: two chops.
I'm feeling good about Japanese BL in general.
For food drama, I gotta be honest. I'm a little concerned because as much as I loved Our Dining Table I feel like they lost touch with the food thing in the last, like, third of the show as we got really caught up in the romantic stuff—and it's fine. That took precedence at that portion. But I don't really feel like we finished strong on a food portion of the show the way we open strong with food. Only real minor knock I gave that show—not enough for me to take a point from it.
Nini
I mean Ben's the big J-BL person. Like, Ben's had to sort of shivvy me into a lot of J-BL, and I have not regretted it to be fair to him. I'm feeling pretty good about J-BL. I feel like J-BL gives me what K-BL would like to give me, which is contained stories like with high production value and low runtime. But somehow they managed to grab my emotions in a way that K-BL has very seldom managed to do at this point.
Ben
There's a specificity to what the Japanese story wants to unpack that I don't think that any of the Korean projects has properly honed in on. Thing for me with Japan is…up until Naked Dining, I had never once felt like my time was being wasted, and that's not something I can say about any of the other countries.
Nini
They're just the granddaddy, man, aren't they? Like, they built this shit. And what they're doing now feels a little bit like…coming into the room and putting your dick on the table.
[laughs]
Because what we do know is coming out of Japan the rest of this year right now is sequels. Like, they have done so much good shit. They can just come back to us and say, “Yeah, more of that!”
[Ben laughs]
—and everybody's like yes, please! You know what I mean? It feels a little bit like Japan is taking a victory lap right now and I gotta say it's well deserved.
Ben
That's a really interesting observation I hadn't considered: that the presence of sequels is a statement about how strong their work is.
Nini
I mean look at what's coming up. Minato’s Laundromat 2. I didn't watch Minato’s Laundromat, but everybody seems to be excited about it. We got Utsukushii Kare 2 already this year and the movie Utsukushii Kare: Eternal. We got the Cherry Magic Movie. This is gonna be the fourth like return to What Did You Eat Yesterday? because you had the original, you had the special, you had the movie. This is the fourth return to What Did You Eat Yesterday? They're coming back to She Loves to Cook, and She Loves to Eat like.
Ben
MBS liked BL enough that they decided to renew the slot for another year and the first offering’s pretty strong. Like, real shit, y'all, if you—you're gonna be hearing this a little late, I think, so Tokyo in April is… may have finished by the time you hear this.
Nini
We're gonna be talking about that in the fall. Japan really does feel like it's taking a victory lap right now. Like even with its original content. It's all like light work.
In terms of what J-BL is doing, I'm feeling it. I'm feeling the J-BL, Ben.
Ben
Is it hittin’ for you?
Nini
It’s hittin’. It’s hittin’. It’s hittin’.
And then in terms of what food BL is doing. Look, I don't know, I feel like food BL is kind of all over the map—that very few people are really clear about what they want to say using food. I feel in general, the food BLs are kinda “hmmm,” and this is not just Japan, because they've been trying them in Korea, they've been trying them in Thailand, and none of those have really hit. I don't know how I feel about these food stories because I don't know that the people who are making them know what they want to say.
So, J-BL: 10. Food BL right now: mostly chop.
Ben
HA! Two chops!
[both laugh]
Nini
Anyway, that is going to wrap us up on Comfort Food. We out! Say bye to the people, Ben.
Ben
Peace!
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