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#intersex fetishization

intersexuai · 1 year

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I haven't seen any other posts about this issue, so I thought I'd throw my opinion into the void.

Intersex Fetishization is a real thing, and should be treated seriously.

Hi, I'm intersexuai. I'm an intersex teen living in the states who was originally assigned female at birth but grew up to be intersex.

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In the queer fantasy scene, there seems to be a prevalent amount of trans people (especially trans mascs) who dislike the idea of male lower genetalia whilst enjoying a male chest. In the porn scene, there is a large issue with the sexualization of trans women with womens chests and male genetalia. Both of these come together in a complicated way, in such medias like hentais where women characters are born with breasts and penises or in fantasy settings where men are born with vaginas and no feminine breast tissue.

This can obviously be called transgender fetishization, but a big issue lies under the idea of the complete intersexness being sexualized or sought after in some way.

The reason I'm bringing this up is because I was a victim of intersexual fetishization, and I can't find anyone else talking about the effect of this on other intersexuals.

Please, if you have something to share about this phenomenon, reblog with the info you have.

#intersex #actually intersex #intersexual #hermaphrodite #fetishization #queer #discourse #intersex fetishization #is this problematic #intersexism #intergender #transgender #transgender fetishization #trans rights #intersex rights #intersexuai

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haveyoureadthistransbook · 4 months

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Middlesex by Jeffrey Eugenides

goodreads

Middlesex tells the breathtaking story of Calliope Stephanides, and three generations of the Greek-American Stephanides family, who travel from a tiny village overlooking Mount Olympus in Asia Minor to Prohibition-era Detroit, witnessing its glory days as the Motor City and the race riots of 1967 before moving out to the tree-lined streets of suburban Grosse Pointe, Michigan. To understand why Calliope is not like other girls, she has to uncover a guilty family secret, and the astonishing genetic history that turns Callie into Cal, one of the most audacious and wondrous narrators in contemporary fiction. Lyrical and thrilling, Middlesex is an exhilarating reinvention of the American epic.

Mod opinion: I've read this book for a college course on trans stories and I didn't really like it (the other book we read in its entirety for the course was stone butch blues though, so it had tough competition, but I really did not enjoy middlesex because it treats the intersex character horribly). Also note that this book is heavily criticised by intersex activist for its interphobia and fetishization of intersex bodies.

#middlesex #jeffrey eugenides #polls #trans lit #trans literature #trans books #lgbt lit #lgbt literature #lgbt books #contemporary fiction #intersex #i added this due to it being academically considered a 'trans' book & it being recommended #but it is not a trans story. instead it is a fetishized inter story written by a dyadic author and I should have mentioned that immediately #deepy sorry for that oversight

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magidoggie · 4 months

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A LOOK INTO SHI/HIR PRONOUNS AND THEIR ORIGINS

So I’ve seen people claim that shi/hir pronouns are intersex exclusive (mostly intersex people), and others say they aren’t (mostly non-intersex people)

As an intersex person, I've been confused about this for a while, so I decided to look into it

THIS POST WILL CONTAIN NSFW TOPICS, FURRIES, TALKS OF FETISHIZATION OF INTERSEX BODIES, AND INTERSEX SLURS!

Most of the users of these pronouns seem to be non-intersex people, but there are also intersex people who use them.

I've seen a decent amount of intersex people say that shi/hir pronouns are only ours to use, as they were used against us (like a shortened version of he-she). This would make them basically slurs that only we can reclaim.

I've even seen some claims that Geoffrey Chaucer himself coined these words?? (The chaucer thing, I haven't been able to find a source for. Even so, it is most likely just an old spelling of "she/her")

I’ve seen people say it originated on 4chan. It'd be hard to verify, as 4chan is known for not keeping threads up for long. There are 4chan archives, but I've tried my hardest to look for any combinations of things like "shi" and different terms that could work with it like "intersex" "freak" or "hermaphrodite" . I don't doubt it's been used on 4chan, but I can't find much, and archival sites don't go back far enough.

Regardless, the pronouns seem quite old. One thing I did find under the search of ""4chan" shi hir" on Google, was a.. descriptive post on a furry porn website called e621.net

Okay, 13 years ago, that's a start. It certainly contains the word "herm" (short for hermaphrodite), and the word intersex used with this pronoun.

Godspeed TheShadowfox42 I hope you found the image.

Using Google's "Before:(date)" feature, I searched "shi herm before:2010", and unsurprisingly, I found a lot of furry porn.

Stories on sofurry.com, a furry website that looks to be from at least 2007, if not older. I'll spare you the details, but indeed, there, they use shi/hir pronouns for their "herm" characters. Did these pronouns originate from.. furries?? I put that though aside for now, to look further into other uses.

As it turns out, the journey does not end at 2007. Urban dictionary has an entry from 2003

No slurs here, it looks like a neutral usage. Again, going back to Google. Now, search terms "hir "gender neutral" before:2004"

Many results show up now, now articles rather than furries. American.edu (seems to be a university), Swarthmore.edu (this is a college), both from 2001. jstor.org with a journal article from 1999. Unfortunately I can't read that one, as I have to pay a whole $63 to purchase it. I even found a PDF file from 1994 by core.ac.uk

But, what I've realized now is this is not usage of shi/hir pronouns. All of these use Ze/hir pronouns. I don't know if there is any link, but the last pronoun looking the same must've obscured the results.

From the american.edu article on these pronouns. You can see the usage of "hir" alongside "ze", and below it, the usage of ze/zir pronouns, which seem to be used more today.

Shit.. Doing the search all over again with the pronoun "shi" yields.. very few results apart from people talking about Chinese words.

Wait what about those furries from earlier? The tvtropes.org article does include this:

Chakona space? Chakats? Pronouns he came up with? Admittedly I kept seeing these centaur feline hybrid characters come up quite consistently during this dive, but I had to look into it further.

Oh buddy what did I get myself into. This is from 2001 best I can tell, so we're getting quite old here. I scroll down on the page.

And lower down.

Now this is all very interesting speculative biology, but what I'm focusing on is again, the usage of "hermaphrodite" together with the pronouns "shi/hir". Did a furry artist named Bernard Doove come up with these pronouns.

It gets yet older.. New search, "chakats "shi" before:2001"

Again, Bernard Doove's art from 2000, 1999, 1998,

I find a website called yerf.metafur.org It has furry art, dating all the way back to the mid 1990's, but here, on December 23 1998, is the first appearance of these pronouns on that site.

This Bernard Doove person has been at this project, with these pronouns for a while.

From what I can tell, many of his art pieces, they seem to be quite sexual beings. Quite fetishistic of hermaphroditism at times. (or intersexuality, take your pick)

The other thing I found with my search was a website, furry.org.au/bosshoss/

My search says it's from September 14 1998.

That's certainly some information, but it might come in handy. So Chakat Goldfur provided this website? Who is that? Looking into it, that seems to be a character created by Bernard Doove, that acts as an alter ego. Further down, the person running this website lists some other websites they enjoy. One being "Proxima Centauri", which seems to be another furry artist.

"I met this one at ConFURence 8. Very interesting. (Did I mention shi is a hermaphrodite uni-centaur?)"

(For context, ConFURence is a furry convention held in 1997)

Again, the usage of hermaphrodite, and the pronoun shi. At this point, the website being linked to is long gone, but the wayback machine provides help. The website, http://www.spots.ab.ca/~unicorn/main.htm has been captured all the way back to October 8th 1997.

At this time, the website was under construction. No images are willing to load and haven't been archived, but the description is intact.

So this person uses shi/hir pronouns for their hermaphroditic character all the way back in 1997. There are links to other places where this person used to host their works, but they are all down and haven't been archived. The thread is running thin..

Back to Bernard Doove, the Chakat creator. There must be something more to this. Turns out, there was. On the "yerf" website, I actually found several art pieces that were not picked up by Google.

Febuary 22 1997. Getting yet older. In some art pieces, Bernard references "Forest Tale" and "forest tales", so I went looking for whatever that was.

1995?? you've got to be kidding. It's an adult story involving these "chakat" beings, and sure enough, down the page

Shi/hir pronouns used over and over again.

With the use of hermaphrodite.

But.. This is kind of where it ends. I couldn't seem to find anything older, and I'm not going to contact Bernard Doove over this. Even something as old as 29 years is impressive to me. Bernard Doove states his characters were inspired by other furry artists' creatures of the time, but since it's 1995, there isn't much left for me to find here. Anything before that time is probably lost.

With all the information I have been able to gather, it looks to shi/hir pronouns were created by Bernard Doove who is a furry author and artist. Shi/hir were made to be a midway between "she" and "him" in some way, to be a gender neutral word for hermaphroditic genetically modified beings called "chakats" in his stories. As an intersex person myself, I don't enjoy the use of "hermaphrodite" in such a way, as it's a slur for us. But these types of characters also seem to be very old, and we, and our struggles, were completely unknown to the vast majority of people, even moreso than nowadays.

If you use those pronouns for an intersex person who doesn't use them, it is indeed intersexist, as you are implying we are hermaphrodites.

But as for whether only intersex people can use them? I'm not sure. The original intent doesn't seem be directly linked to intersex people. You could argue that these hermaphroditic characters are fetishized versions of how many people see us, and have seen us for a long time. Afterall, hermaphrodite was, and still is, a common slur for us.

I don't doubt some people have used these pronouns as slurs against us as well, but I also haven't found anything specifically that supports that. It always seemed to be for specific fictional characters that COULD be based off specific intersex attributes

I'm not going to argue one way or the other. This was just me trying to find what I could about these pronouns and their history. Just be mindful of how you use these pronouns, and the connections they have to fetishes revolving around the common misinterpretation of intersex bodies (as in, "having both parts")

Thank you for reading.

I hope you learned something. I know I did, and I now have a headache.

#shi/hir #pronouns #history #internet #intersex #fetishization #furry #queer history #doggie barks

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uncanny-tranny · 10 months

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Honestly, one of the first litmus tests I use to see how 'safe,' so to speak, a person is around trans people is to see how they treat trans men, transmasculine folks, or otherwise gender expansive people who are pregnant.

So often, the people who affirm that they are a trans ally will be the first to objectify, fetishize, and almost dehumanize anybody who is pregnant that isn't a woman (or solely a woman).

If you treat pregnant people like they are your "irl mpreg fantasy" or whatever else, you aren't much of a trans ally. Pregnant trans people deserve better than to face not only fetishization but also transphobia.

#trans #transgender #lgbt #lgbtq #ftm #nonbinary #transphobia #transphobia tw #it's fine to uplift people who are pregnant but do not mistake fetishizing them/their body as 'uplifting'#and also don't assume that they are available for *you* and *your* desires #and honestly i use this litmus test to see how respectful somebody is likely to be around intersex people because...#...of the assumed 'they've got it ALL' or 'they're *inherently androgynous' sort of fetishization i've seen #because the overlap between transmasc/trans male fetishists and intersex fetishists is substantial ime

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estrogenism · 1 month

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it always bothers me so much to see how some peoples' idea of allyship hinges on if you can see us as sexual or beautiful beings. and that's not allyship, it's fetishization, even if you meant it in good faith.

i see this with so many marginalized groups. poc, especially asians and black people. trans people, especially trans women. intersex people. disabled people. neurodivergent people. where these people are asking for allyship, and peoples' response is to say 'yeah i'd fuck you!'

that's not helpful. it's not helpful for us to know that your allyship depends on how fuckable we are to you. it's not helpful for us to know that you're seeing us and first and foremost thinking about how fuckable we are because that's easier than trying to be an actual ally.

i'm not a puritan who thinks marginalized people are unable to consent to sex, and i'm not saying it's wrong to want to fuck anyone from one or multiple of the demographics i listed. it's not! my problem is when we are asking for genuine allyship and we basically get told that people only support us because they want to fuck us.

#lelei speaks ★#fetishization #racism #transmisia #intersexism #transmisogyny #antiblackness #racism cw #transmisia cw #intersexism cw #transmisogyny cw #antiblackness cw

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transenbyconfessions · 9 months

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i wish dyadic trans people could be more educated on intersex issues and how we percieve gender instead of fetishizing us, i want to stop having so much dysphoria for identifying in a way they would consider "wrong"

Submitted July 14, 2023

#transgender #trans #enby #nb #nonbinary #non-binary #non binary #enban #intersex #intersexism #fetishization #dysphoria #gender dysphoria

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intersexuai · 1 year

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Hey I'm not dismissing that intersex fetishization is a very real phenomena (one I've experienced myself) but I wanted to say that maybe the part about specifically the queer fantasy scene and the body-types that are common in erotic within should be rewritten?

The way it currently is, it sounds like (not is, if it's a wording or tone issue I apologize) the post lacks the understanding that those two representations (tm w/ flat chests and dyadic "AFAB" genetalia, tw w/ non-flat chests and dyadic "AMAB" genetalia) are common in that scene because there are either the end transitional goal for many (including but not limited too those that don't want or can never afford bottom surgery) or simply the body the author(s) and many other trans people have that they wish to reclaim the positive sexuality of

e.g. tm bottoming while going "I am still a man and I can still desire/have a flat chest" which is a direct contrast to the narrative of "transmasc AFABs who enjoy penetration are really just girls" or tw topping while going "I am still a woman and I can still enjoy doing this" in direct contrast to the narrative of "transfem AMABS who enjoy penetrating are just creepy sex prevent men in disguise". Also the overall Trans Reclamation that is "going on HRT/getting surgery doesn't change the fact that my trans body can be loved and touched intimately" which is a real fear!

I think that if there has to be focus on trans people in erotic perpetuating intersexism it needs to be clearly and squarely on the trans people who uphold the hentai "born like this" fetish art as ""trans representation"" because that's a really massive issue I keep running into w/ dyadic trans people (I think you could get an entire book of screenshot of "futanari is rep" dyadic trans hot takes). Or honestly veering away from media, on the dyadic trans people who desire to "transition to intersex", because that's who's personally fetishized my body the most.

(I know I wrote you a book but I have NCAH and I've been in online trans circles for a long time so I'm passionate about it, I hope this ask finds you well!)

Thank you so much for this, I agree I could've worded it better. I think you said this perfectly so I'm not going to really add on.

I'll work on rewriting the post to focus more around that.

#intersex fetishization #intersexism #intersexual #intersex #transgender

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