#fetishization
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Found in a thread with other examples of straight men doing this but this one was the least explicit. Long story short, straight men trick FTMs desperate for validation, and if the FTM never actually discovers the rouse, their confidence is falsely bolstered and they go on to make dating life harder for actual gay men. Just a shitshow all around.
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Every damn time.
So the person I was responding to in this post later reblogged this:
Non-transmascs, y'all have absolutely no fucking idea how much self control it took to censor the names in this screenshot. The casual fatphobia and trans fetishization should maybe put them off if they're just "criticizing" me but nope. I don't see how any human being thinks that it's acceptable to talk about trans men like this.
I'm too angry to be able to make an image description, so if someone else can do it for me, that'd be appreciated.
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"fat ppl are so hot and bangable. fat people are sexy. i want to fuck fatties" okok heard but do you actually like us as people? do you know anything abt the fat creators u follow who share things abt their lives? how do you treat fat ppl who are undesirable to you? do you listen to us when we are screaming about the ways that fatphobia is everywhere? no not mindlessly reblog, but listen and internalize. do you take the time to unpack your biases against fat ppl? or even the fatphobia you absolutely were taught growing up? do you hold your thin/not fat friends accountable when they compare themselves to us because they dont like the way they look? do you advocate for us when people make us the butt of jokes? do you actually date fat people? do you befriend fat people? are you kind to fat strangers you don't find attractive? do you feel the need to qualify your love for fat people? do you love any fat people who arent related to you? do you respect fat ppl of all sizes? what do you consider "fat"? is it just someone with bigger than average boobs/butt? do you like fat people with small boobs/butts? does "we love bellies here" include large bellies covered in stretch marks? does it include bellies with multiple rolls and skin discoloration because of those rolls? does it include those things together? when you say fat do you mean actual fat people? do you mean fat people who arent white? who are disabled? who reject the expectations of hyper femininity/hyper masculinity? when the trend of wanting to fuck certain fat ppl wears off yet again will you continue to desire us? to love us? to cherish us? do you see us as people even when we do not give you sexual access to our bodies?
#personal#this is kind of a vent#i see so many ppl rb those “i love bellies” posts or talk abt features of fatness#but decontexualized#i see so many ppl pretend to like us and like its just exhausting#and yes i know im talking about fatness a lot right now#im having big feelings and im gonna blog abt them cause i can#if u dont like it unfollow me#fatphobia#fetishization
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And here we go again with the “I just can’t connect to Black characters 🥺” bs. Y’all don’t like Black ppl so that’s why you don’t like reading about us. No one cares if LegendBorn or Children of Blood and Bone are some of your favs, cuz what exactly is stopping you from finding books similar to them???? And then to say that Black authors should be more like Asian authors while also insinuating that we don’t have our own historical or cultural myths, especially when we exist on multiple continents and islands, is absolutely ludicrous. Not to mention that a statement like that feeds into racism and the fetishization of Asian ppl. Children of color are forced to see nothing but white ppl in every form of media all our lives and not once does not being able to connect to the characters stop us from enjoying that piece of media. You can empathize with dragons, elves, orcs, and witches easily. Anyone darker than dry glue however, needs to prove why you should read our stories and have sympathy for our characters. This is exactly why I don’t trust white readers regardless of if they read diversely or not cuz some of y’all don’t even read the books. You just get them for brownie points or judge them harshly cuz you still don’t see the characters as deserving of empathy.
#white people#white readers#why would you say that#black authors#asian authors#latino authors#indigenous authors#diverse books#legendborn#children of blood and bone#racism#fetishization#i said what i said#unique writes
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I have this fantasy that one of my best friends’ boyfriend has a thing for me. He loves the idea of his girlfriend and I being together. He subtly flirts with me and seduces me. Convinces his girlfriend, one of my best friends, to flirt with me too. Get closer to me. I don’t think much of it. we’re all friends, after all.
Then one day it’s just the three of us. only my friend and I smoke, her boyfriend doesn’t. we get absolutely high out of our minds. meanwhile he’s encouraging us to smoke more. to keep taking hit after hit. he makes it into a game. I like games.
he gets a little handsy with his girlfriend. it’s fine, they’re dating. It happens. but of course I say something. I have to. he makes a joke about me being jealous. or left out. I don’t admit to anything, of course. but he suggested that her and I get a little touchy feely.
she’s so high she doesn’t see the problem with it. and I’m just happy to be included. and of course the weed just makes everything feel so much better. she rubs my body, my chest, my back, slowly making her way between my legs. without thinking, I kiss her. her boyfriend tells her to kiss me back. she does. our make out is sloppy and messy.
he watches for a moment before joining in, giving us encouraging words to continue. telling us how good we’re doing. how happy we’re making him feel.
it ends up with the most sloppy threesome possible and the next morning, I barely remember anything. I feel a little funny down there but I can’t recall anything that happened. I try asking them, but she doesn’t remember anything and he said all we did was watch movies. I believed him. I never remember things when I’m high. but then again, he knew that, didn’t he?
#cnc brat#cnc drugging#cnc free use#r@pe fantasy#cnc kidnapping#hard k1nk#intox kink#forced intox#forced intimacy#wlw nsft#patriarchy kink#fetishization#cnc k!nk#threes0me#2 girls 1 guy
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don't get me started on the (culturally-)christian fetishization of jews and palestinians and brown people that's been happening from the “jesus was an x!!!” crowd. you should not care about jews just because jesus was a jew. (not to mention how night and day DIFFERENT judaism is now vs then). you should not care about palestinians just because jesus lived in a place that was later called palestine (not to mention the complete difference in terms of national identity broadly and palestinian national vs administrative identity specifically. read my post here for more x). you should not care about brown people just because jesus was probably not pasty ass white (not to mention the complete differences in racial identity and how this is literally millennia before the full identity of “brown” or “black” ever formed in any way we would recognize today)
what if instead of trying to cover up your guilt for the systemic horrors your religion committed and continues to committed by trying to add all these identity politics labels onto your Main Guy™ you just cared about people for the sake of them being people
#jumblr#christian antisemitism#christian islamophobia#fetishization#anarchist#cultural christianity#racial justice
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A LOOK INTO SHI/HIR PRONOUNS AND THEIR ORIGINS
So I’ve seen people claim that shi/hir pronouns are intersex exclusive (mostly intersex people), and others say they aren’t (mostly non-intersex people)
As an intersex person, I've been confused about this for a while, so I decided to look into it
THIS POST WILL CONTAIN NSFW TOPICS, FURRIES, TALKS OF FETISHIZATION OF INTERSEX BODIES, AND INTERSEX SLURS!
Most of the users of these pronouns seem to be non-intersex people, but there are also intersex people who use them.
I've seen a decent amount of intersex people say that shi/hir pronouns are only ours to use, as they were used against us (like a shortened version of he-she). This would make them basically slurs that only we can reclaim.
I've even seen some claims that Geoffrey Chaucer himself coined these words?? (The chaucer thing, I haven't been able to find a source for. Even so, it is most likely just an old spelling of "she/her")
I’ve seen people say it originated on 4chan. It'd be hard to verify, as 4chan is known for not keeping threads up for long. There are 4chan archives, but I've tried my hardest to look for any combinations of things like "shi" and different terms that could work with it like "intersex" "freak" or "hermaphrodite" . I don't doubt it's been used on 4chan, but I can't find much, and archival sites don't go back far enough.
Regardless, the pronouns seem quite old. One thing I did find under the search of ""4chan" shi hir" on Google, was a.. descriptive post on a furry porn website called e621.net
Okay, 13 years ago, that's a start. It certainly contains the word "herm" (short for hermaphrodite), and the word intersex used with this pronoun.
Godspeed TheShadowfox42 I hope you found the image.
Using Google's "Before:(date)" feature, I searched "shi herm before:2010", and unsurprisingly, I found a lot of furry porn.
Stories on sofurry.com, a furry website that looks to be from at least 2007, if not older. I'll spare you the details, but indeed, there, they use shi/hir pronouns for their "herm" characters. Did these pronouns originate from.. furries?? I put that though aside for now, to look further into other uses.
As it turns out, the journey does not end at 2007. Urban dictionary has an entry from 2003
No slurs here, it looks like a neutral usage. Again, going back to Google. Now, search terms "hir "gender neutral" before:2004"
Many results show up now, now articles rather than furries. American.edu (seems to be a university), Swarthmore.edu (this is a college), both from 2001. jstor.org with a journal article from 1999. Unfortunately I can't read that one, as I have to pay a whole $63 to purchase it. I even found a PDF file from 1994 by core.ac.uk
But, what I've realized now is this is not usage of shi/hir pronouns. All of these use Ze/hir pronouns. I don't know if there is any link, but the last pronoun looking the same must've obscured the results.
From the american.edu article on these pronouns. You can see the usage of "hir" alongside "ze", and below it, the usage of ze/zir pronouns, which seem to be used more today.
Shit.. Doing the search all over again with the pronoun "shi" yields.. very few results apart from people talking about Chinese words.
Wait what about those furries from earlier? The tvtropes.org article does include this:
Chakona space? Chakats? Pronouns he came up with? Admittedly I kept seeing these centaur feline hybrid characters come up quite consistently during this dive, but I had to look into it further.
Oh buddy what did I get myself into. This is from 2001 best I can tell, so we're getting quite old here. I scroll down on the page.
And lower down.
Now this is all very interesting speculative biology, but what I'm focusing on is again, the usage of "hermaphrodite" together with the pronouns "shi/hir". Did a furry artist named Bernard Doove come up with these pronouns.
It gets yet older.. New search, "chakats "shi" before:2001"
Again, Bernard Doove's art from 2000, 1999, 1998,
I find a website called yerf.metafur.org
It has furry art, dating all the way back to the mid 1990's, but here, on December 23 1998, is the first appearance of these pronouns on that site.
This Bernard Doove person has been at this project, with these pronouns for a while.
From what I can tell, many of his art pieces, they seem to be quite sexual beings. Quite fetishistic of hermaphroditism at times. (or intersexuality, take your pick)
The other thing I found with my search was a website, furry.org.au/bosshoss/
My search says it's from September 14 1998.
That's certainly some information, but it might come in handy. So Chakat Goldfur provided this website? Who is that? Looking into it, that seems to be a character created by Bernard Doove, that acts as an alter ego. Further down, the person running this website lists some other websites they enjoy. One being "Proxima Centauri", which seems to be another furry artist.
"I met this one at ConFURence 8. Very interesting. (Did I mention shi is a hermaphrodite uni-centaur?)"
(For context, ConFURence is a furry convention held in 1997)
Again, the usage of hermaphrodite, and the pronoun shi. At this point, the website being linked to is long gone, but the wayback machine provides help. The website, http://www.spots.ab.ca/~unicorn/main.htm has been captured all the way back to October 8th 1997.
At this time, the website was under construction. No images are willing to load and haven't been archived, but the description is intact.
So this person uses shi/hir pronouns for their hermaphroditic character all the way back in 1997. There are links to other places where this person used to host their works, but they are all down and haven't been archived. The thread is running thin..
Back to Bernard Doove, the Chakat creator. There must be something more to this. Turns out, there was. On the "yerf" website, I actually found several art pieces that were not picked up by Google.
Febuary 22 1997. Getting yet older. In some art pieces, Bernard references "Forest Tale" and "forest tales", so I went looking for whatever that was.
1995?? you've got to be kidding. It's an adult story involving these "chakat" beings, and sure enough, down the page
Shi/hir pronouns used over and over again.
With the use of hermaphrodite.
But.. This is kind of where it ends. I couldn't seem to find anything older, and I'm not going to contact Bernard Doove over this. Even something as old as 29 years is impressive to me. Bernard Doove states his characters were inspired by other furry artists' creatures of the time, but since it's 1995, there isn't much left for me to find here. Anything before that time is probably lost.
With all the information I have been able to gather, it looks to shi/hir pronouns were created by Bernard Doove who is a furry author and artist. Shi/hir were made to be a midway between "she" and "him" in some way, to be a gender neutral word for hermaphroditic genetically modified beings called "chakats" in his stories. As an intersex person myself, I don't enjoy the use of "hermaphrodite" in such a way, as it's a slur for us. But these types of characters also seem to be very old, and we, and our struggles, were completely unknown to the vast majority of people, even moreso than nowadays.
If you use those pronouns for an intersex person who doesn't use them, it is indeed intersexist, as you are implying we are hermaphrodites.
But as for whether only intersex people can use them? I'm not sure. The original intent doesn't seem be directly linked to intersex people. You could argue that these hermaphroditic characters are fetishized versions of how many people see us, and have seen us for a long time. Afterall, hermaphrodite was, and still is, a common slur for us.
I don't doubt some people have used these pronouns as slurs against us as well, but I also haven't found anything specifically that supports that. It always seemed to be for specific fictional characters that COULD be based off specific intersex attributes
I'm not going to argue one way or the other. This was just me trying to find what I could about these pronouns and their history. Just be mindful of how you use these pronouns, and the connections they have to fetishes revolving around the common misinterpretation of intersex bodies (as in, "having both parts")
Thank you for reading.
I hope you learned something. I know I did, and I now have a headache.
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Begging people to learn that fetishization is a specific form of dehumanization that sees the target primarily as a (often sexual) tool for somebody to achieve their own goal. A person who fetishizes somebody will often not recognize somebody's humanity because they are primarily focused on their own desires.
Fetishization is not when somebody likes a person (especially a marginalized group). Fetishization is not when a person in an out group sees a marginalized person as an equal and appreciates them as an equal. It is not dehumanization for somebody to treat a marginalized person like an autonomous person who can make their own decisions.
It leaves a very bad taste in my mouth when people assume that the only reason you can be "into" a marginalized person is that you want to dehumanize or ultimately abuse them. It sends the message that our marginalization is preventing us from "truly" being seen as a person from anybody. You aren't placing the blame on systems of power, you are punishing marginalized people for their marginalization.
#politics#fetishization#i find it ESPECIALLY frusterating when people treat 'dont EVER like [x group]' as activism#i know so many people are hyper-vigilant of fetishization because of how dehumanizing it is and how many are traumatized from it...#...but not every instance of us being treated like an intrinsic equal will be because of fetishization#saw somebody saying that somebody shouldn't be open about liking trans men and that we trans men...#...should 'love ourselves more' when trans men were like 'that's awesome for you i'm glad you're open about it'...#...yes i have met many a chaser who made me feel like a worthless piece of wank material...#...but that was THEIR choice to treat me like that. it was THEIR fault they treated me like that...#...and that is by no means not the fault of Some Guy who sees their fellow man as an intrinsically equal man to his own...#...you can denounce fetishization without implying that marginalized people are broken goods who need to never be touched or seen
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i know i'm like... fetishising (or something similar that i don't know the name of) systems/plurals by thinking like this, but i'm kind of jealous of how... not-alone the members are. there's people there for them.
eh, we guess we understand this sentiment? and maybe this is the case for some endogenic systems, paromancy systems, imagination based systems, and other plural folks whose systems didn’t form from trauma. and if nontraumagenic plurality interests you, then you should totally look into it.
but in our system… it doesn’t always feel like there’s people there for us.
it’s actually incredibly lonely and isolating being a did system, for many reasons.
it can be dangerous being out as a system, and our dissociative disorder and other mental health problems make it difficult to forge and maintain friendships with people outside our system.
we’re often cut off from other system members through dissociative barriers, or unable to remember our previous interactions due to amnesia.
we’re often at odds with each other. there’s lots of conflict, disagreements, fighting, and bitterness. we each have our own ideas on how to live our life, and some of us can be prone to lashing out if we feel we’re not being respected.
interactions with extremely traumatized parts come with a host of horrible symptoms. flashbacks, panic attacks, post-traumatic psychosis, and fight/flight/freeze/fawn symptoms lead some of us to avoid our more traumatized alters altogether.
and this doesn’t even touch on the depersonalization, derealization, disconnection, brain fog, self doubt, self loathing, fatigue, depression, and other debilitating, often disabling symptoms of our disorder.
it’s not fun. it’s not cute. quite often it feels like hell on earth.
we try to paint systemhood and plural experience in a positive light here (since this is by nature a positivity blog), but make no mistake that having a dissociative disorder like did is not something to want or be jealous of. it sucks. it has our life in shambles. we’re working towards recovery, but it is a lengthy, exhausting, and non-linear process.
sure, being a system can be fun sometimes. and we’re learning to respect, cherish, and be grateful for our parts. but being an alter in a system is an incredibly lonely, frustratingly isolating experience. other did systems might disagree, but this has been our experience with this disorder, anyway.
🐢 kip and 💼 lucille
#did#osdd#didosdd#dissociative identity disorder#other specified dissociative disorder#trauma#system fetishization#fetishization
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I was talking with my mom today about the fetishization of trans people and how it’s bad to sexualize us and she said “well you can’t control what you’re attracted to.”
And I had to explain to her that yes, you are allowed to be attracted to trans people, you are allowed to be More attracted to trans people than cis people, hell you are allowed to exclusively be attracted to trans people. The problem is when trans people stop being people to them, and start being sexual objects instead.
You still have to treat us as human beings, not just a man with an extra hole or a girl with a dick to use purely for your sexual fantasies (unless previously discussed with said trans person and they fully consent to it, in which case go for it and have fun).
You can’t help what your attracted to, but you Can help your actions and how you view people, and if you start to view literal human beings as just elaborate sex toys there is something wrong.
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feels like some people's sex positivity hasn't progressed past understanding sex and fetish as some sort of cosmic force. They just swapped "sinful temptation of the devil" with "purifying light of god" and went along their merry way. sex is still something we can't talk about, just for the opposite reason. Like, what do you mean this is bigoted? I was clearly jerking off to it, and therefore it is Good. You are a sex negative agent of repression satan and also i have lots of minority friends who also jerk off to it so you're the real bigot actually.
They take it so personally too. Like oh you're mad that the positivity tag you visit to feel a bit less shitty about yourself is full of the same bigotry you were trying to escape? Sorry you hate me personally and want me to die in a forever explosion just for trying to cope. Sorry I'm not pure enough for you entitled snowflakes. Don't like don't read the extremely triggering sentence i left in plain sight and if you have a panic attack it's your fault for not stopping your brain from understanding the sentence i dropped directly into it. Curate your own experience by psychically shutting out all the triggers I refuse to tag for. bitch.
You as an adult have got to be able to take marginalised people talking about their own fetishization without flying off the handle. Even if their experiences are negative. Even if they don't have nice things to say. Even if they're not interested in existing for your consumption, ever. Otherwise you're not sex positive, you're an entitled creep and a danger to marginalised people around you.
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FOH!
Y'all are trash!
Stop it! That quote was no accident.
You deserve everything that's coming to you.
You do better. We know you won't though.
#white feminism is fucking bullshit#colorism#fetishization#antiblackness#misogynoir#double standards#moms for liberty#liberalism#book banning#censorship#book bans#free speech
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I dunno as someone who actually has problems with my urinary system and wants to read fics where characters experience similar experiences to myself, I hate how the only genres of "character has incontinence/urinary dysfunction" are either kink related, age-regression related, or both.
Like how about people can have urinary incontinence/dysfunction without it being fetishized or infantilized?
#sigh#personal#ableism#medical issues#fandom negative#fetishization#infantilization#urinary incontinence#urinary dysfunction
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Oh, goodness. Has anyone read this series? It's getting an anime:
It's called "Plus-Sized Elf" or (what the actual Japanese title is) "Elf can't be on a diet." I saw this key visual and groaned. This looks like it will be some gross fat fetish ecchi series. MAL confirms that it is an ecchi series, and the way this key visual is focusing so specifically on her large breasts and her stomach with its fat, makes me highly doubt that this series actually humanizes the female character in any real, legitimate way.
Now, I haven't read this series, but the end goal seems to be losing weight. Looking at the Wiki page, it seems that the series ends up focusing on other mythological creatures (all female characters, iirc) who are struggling with weight. The end goal for all of them seems to be losing that weight.
Now, it also seems like the series is still on-going, so there is no ending yet. But I'm doubtful that the ending will be anything body positive or body neutral. Even if the end realization is that these fat mythical creatures are just fine the way they are, because the series is ecchi and seems to be focusing on the weight aspect specifically, that message will still be wrapped up in fetishization instead of humanization. The series will still just be objectifying it (the fatness) and the female character (the website has the belly fat jiggle, it is the only part of the character that moves).
Basically, my "this is just going to be thinly veiled fatphobia wrapped in fat girl fetishism" alarm is ringing. Fatphobia is still really bad in Japan (and in anime/manga), but there have been some improvements in this area in recent years (Witch From Mercury, Buddy Daddies, Tiger & Bunny 2). All of the series I just listed have female characters who are fat and who are characters who exist outside of their weight, which is great, but none of them are MCs either.
Here we have a fat female MC, but with a focus on her weight being a key aspect of the series (fatphobia) and the visuals focusing on objectifying and fetishizing her fatness via the ecchi nature of the show.
But, as I already stated, I haven't read this series, which is why I asked if anyone I know here has. I would love to be wrong about this series, it could end up sending out a fat positive or fat neutral message. But, just based off of my knowledge and experience, I'm hitting the DOUBT button really hard.
What I would want is a series that humanizes these fat female characters, but I know that the reality is likely going to be some creepy and gross fetish content that just dehumanizes.
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can we stop like, viewing seahorse dads as "irl mpreg." its actually so weird and distressing. as a man who plans on having a biological child, i will not tolerate this fetishization bullshit. even if you're making a "joke" that shit isnt even funny to begin with. trans people are already fetishized to begin with for simply being trans. stop that shit.
#ftm#gay#trans#transgender#queer#transsexual#trans man#lgbt#trans male#ftm mlm#seahorse dads#fetishization#trans men#queer community
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So I support people's right to choose who they do and don't want to be with, but if I'm honest with myself, I'm more than a bit uncomfortable with the whole "t4t" thing and especially uncomfortable with how it often plays out in terms of this idea that people with the same identities as you necessarily understand you best.
I've dated cis people and dated one other nonbinary person, and the nonbinary person and I did not necessarily mesh better than I did with the cis people I dated. My partner now is a cis bi woman, and she seems to understand, validate, and support me in my experience of gender more than anyone else has in the past.
More broadly than just dating, among friends, I don't always think that nonbinary people, other transfem people, or anyone who shares any specific identities with me, "gets" me more than people of different identities. It's always an individual thing, there are trans people who get me and trans people who don't, cis people who get me and cis people who don't, and same for nonbinary people.
I also have seen a lot of people online post about how they were lulled into a false sense of security by rhetoric that said that t4t relationships were "safer" and how they ended up really hurt when they were dating another trans person who ended up acting abusive towards them.
There is also a degree to which the t4t thing feels really fetishizing to me, especially the way I often see it on Tumblr these days. Like the last time I went on a dating site, I was inundated with messages from older men whose profiles listed them as "straight" and were writing things to me like: "I want to suck cock" and "I love men who dress like women" and stuff like that. I hated it.
And like when I see some of the things some transfem people here on Tumblr are posting in some of the tags I browse, honestly it's a lot of the same crap. A lot of people are really into degradation/humiliation kinks, and push sexually-explicit fantasies involving these sorts of kinks into broad, general tags that I browse when I am not looking for sexual content, and of course they don't use the community labels, so I'm looking for content related to trans and nonbinary people, and transfem people specifically, and instead of finding supportive content, I find all this content fetishizing us. I hate it. It's disrespectful to put that sort of content in a place where people will see it without us consenting to it. If you have a kink involving being fetishized and/or fetishizing other trans people, great, I will respect that and defend you against anyone who tries to kinkshame you. But I don't want you to put your sexually-explicit, degrading, fetishizing content somewhere where it will be seen out-of-context by people who did not consent to participate in it.
So like if you're posting in tags like #t4t nsft then that's great, that's kinda what that tag is for, especially if you also use the community labels and/or also tag stuff with tags like degradation when your post includes it so people who don't want to see it can use an extension to block or filter the tag. But don't thrust explicit content, like raw sexual fantasies about your degradation kink and fetishization of transfem people into general tags like #transfem without using community labels, especially if you don't tag it in any way that makes it easy to avoid without blocking all transfem content.
So yeah, I think this about sums up my discomfort with the whole t4t trend:
(1) bad behavior depends on the behavior itself, not your identity
(2) t4t relationships are not necessarily "safer" than relationships with cis people, and pushing the idea that they are can leave trans people vulnerable to hurt
(3) if you are a trans person who fetishizes other trans people and/or wants to be fetishized, then great and i support you in your kink and will defend you against kinkshaming. but keep your fantasies and explicit content involving that fetish in relevant places, either in private DM's, or if you post it publicly, use the appropriate tags and do not put it in out of broader, general tags without using community labels, so that we trans people who may have trauma about fetishization aren't forced to wade through tons of it to use a tag that we've been using for years for support and positivity.
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