"You are not alone"? Sure aren't!

By the way, I've seen a lot of discourse on "endogenic" alters, so repeat after me

Your brain splits alters as you need them. That means you can have a completely trauma based alter, and you can also have an alter created to deal with homework, aka an "endogenic" alter. If your system formed from trauma, you are not "traumaendo". You are traumagenic. Full stop.

i hate the pipeline of "what is your stance on endos?" to "do you support the hypothetical concept of endogenic plurality?" to "do you think endogenics should be allowed to find safe spaces?" to "how do you personally feel about endogenic systems (because this will change the course of history in the plural community as we know it for the rest of time)?"

like no. no no no. remind me why we're debating others' identities again? we as a community have so much infighting that we're not even paying attention to the real issues: FDC, ableism + sanism in the psychiatric industry towards plurals, and most importantly *making a safe space for plurals in the world.*

listen. "what do i think of the endos?": i don't give a shit. genuinely. i couldn't care less about someone's system origin. it's not that big of a deal. like, if you're traumagenic, endogenic, quoigenic, neurogenic, cool cool. but as someone who Could Not Give Less Of A Fuck, i will not be debating your identity/ies.

Just saw a post that was like “I don’t want the future to be plural because that means giving kids more trauma” and then they tagged it pro endo 🤨🤨

“The future is plural” is about radical acceptance of all plurals and living in a world where we’re allowed to exist without being shamed or harassed for it. It has nothing to do with creating more trauma!! Especially because that’s not a requirement for plurality at all!!

headmates being pulled into front

Why are anti-endos' only resource the theory of structural dissociation? It's either that or carrds 😭.

Like... you realize the theory of structural dissociation was written by a guy who abused his plural patients, right? Why are we... using that as a resource?

If you want to follow that; then you also have to believe in and follow the part where it says that therapists should only speak to the 'real' one in the system. And then you should also follow the part where it talks about how all traumatized people have dissociative parts of the brain; not just those with DIDOSDD. So therefore people with PTSD and other disorders commonly associated or caused by trauma would also be considered plural, correct?

Oh but I forgot, you only like to cherry pick the information that specifically helps you.

Update: Thank you all who have reblogged and corrected us / educated us 🫶. I may not have the energy to reply to everyone but thank u!! Also I will keep this post up for those who want to read through it, but I'm adding this so others can see and potentionally read through the reblogs if they want to!

Dear Anti-Endos,

Respectfully, get the fuck out of pro-endo spaces. I know it's hard for you to watch us being happy and accepting ourselves for who we are. But that doesn't give you an excuse to raid our communities.

We don't hurt you. We don't claim to be taking over the community, nor do we "glamorise" plurality. We exist, and have carved out spaces for us just as you did for yourselves. We do not invade your spaces, telling you how to live, or how to present yourselves.

All we do is exist, being our own people. I don't understand what compels you to attack us, to make us want to revaluate everything about ourselves. Telling us we can't exist, or that we're lying to ourselves about our trauma, is completely unwarranted.

And as a reminder, plurality is defined as the state of two or more conscious beings sharing a physical vessel. There is no mention of trauma in that definition.

THATS BEVAUSE THE PLURALGANG TAG IS FOR ENDOS???

Endogenic Systems and Experiences in the Neurodivergent Community

We tend to stay mostly on the fringes of syscourse nowadays without directly interacting with it too often but I'm going to post this more broadly and less focused on our specific instance of this because community-wise I think it's important to talk about.

Endogenic and other non-traumagenic systems are so commonly excluded from so many neurodivergent-safe spaces where they would otherwise be able to gain knowledge about the disorders they might have, share experiences and coping strategies with peers, or at least have a sense of community that is so commonly valuable to disabled and/or neurodivergent people. In a lot of cases, even people who only support non-traumagenic systems get shoved out.

[Continued under the readmore as it's long.]

This obviously harms non-traumagenic systems, but I have to point out that when people sit there and say "we care about REAL disabled people!", I have to say.... Do you? Because if you did care about those with mental illness, physical disability or neurodivergence, you in my mind wouldn't exclude them based on something unrelated to the topic itself which might even be something as small as holding an opinion that other people get to be the judge of their own experiences. You can say that you care about "real" disabled people, but what about when a traumagenic DID system also has a tulpa that they consider just as valid and real as their alters? What about when a system labels themselves as quoigenic because in reality, you owe no one the knowledge that you are vulnerable and traumatised? What about when a system starts out as endogenic but gains so much trauma later on that they develop dissociative symptoms?

We're quoigenic because while yes we are diagnosed with DID:

DID does not have trauma in the diagnostic criteria so our diagnosis doesn't mean anything by way of origin. Nontraumagenic is not the same as nondisordered the same way that traumagenic isn't the same as disordered.

We cannot remember a time before we were plural so we cannot say with accuracy what our actual origin was.

We have headmates we consider to be from both traumagenic and endogenic origins and it feels unfair to pick one.

We don't owe anyone a quick little "hey, we have trauma!" flag on our pinned post which can easily paint us as a target. This is the exact reason we don't share our triggers online--it's not safe.

You don't owe anyone personal medical information including your diagnostic history, your trauma history or lack thereof, your current medications or how many times you've been in a hospital. That is your business and yours alone to decide who you share it with. It's downright dangerous to share some of it, especially so publically. So who is anyone online that clearly isn't your specific medical practitioner to decide whether your experiences are real enough to allow you into spaces meant for a usually completely unrelated thing? Why would someone holding the opinion that endogenic systems get to decide what labels they use be denied access to spaces just because they support people with differing beliefs and/or experiences?

If we as a system with multiple disabilities want to go into a space for people who are schizoaffective because we need others who won't immediately jump on the ableism train when discussing something we're diagnosed with that has so much stigma, should we be denied that just because we don't label our origin with a clear-cut "we are traumatized!!" label? Should we be denied access to spaces because we don't want to sit around and smile while parts of our system and other members of our community are called fake and evil and whatever else they come up with? It's so common in spaces for people with disabilities to be exclusive to traumagenic systems and people with an anti-endogenic mindset that people don't realise they're not only hurting the endogenic community, but literal chunks of their own community itself.

I can't even begin to understand the reason why.

Endogenic systems by just existing do not cause harm. They're not like a transphobe you would not be safe around by default of having a label. Not every nontraumagenic system is a saint but if you took any communtiy and called everyone in it the equivalent of an unproblematic holy angel, you'd be lying. People are bad in every community, some worse than others, but the nontraumagenic system community literally just wants to exist--and yes, sometimes a nontraumagenic system (or supporter of such) does have dissociative symptoms, or maybe they have autism, or maybe they're physically disabled. Should they be not allowed access just because of the way they chose to label their system, or their opinion of people picking their own labels for their personal identity?

What exactly is the reason they're so excluded everywhere? I'd try to assume that this level of exclusion (to the point of endos being on DNIs next to transphobes and racists) would mean there's some real harm being done on a community-wide scale, but even when looking for it there isn't any explanation we've been able to find. "They're fake" is all we seem to see which has no actual backing whatsoever. "They're harmful" is another but.. How? We might be looking in the wrong places, but we have never seen an actual explanation for how nontraumagenic systems cause harm as a community just by being themselves.

At this point, I have to wonder how many people who say "we care about real disabled people!" are just covering up their "we care about socially acceptable disabled people who I understand and/or do not find cringey" sentiment instead. Being neurodivergent should never be about fitting into tight little boxes--it's part of the whole point of having a community like this. You're not the majority, and that's okay. So why are we dividing the disabled community into boxes too?

Of course, this doesn't only apply to ND spaces. LGBT+ spaces are similar and even more divided from the concept of being a system that it makes even less sense to block nontraumagenic systems from entering the space. How does their system origin relate to their LGBT+ identity? Sometimes it can, but should a trans person be excluded from a trans space because they have a friend who is an endogenic system and they support them fully?

Overall, the main point is that it makes no sense whatsoever to be anti-endo in general, let alone so violently anti-endogenic system to the point where you hurt members of your own community due to it. Sometimes from something as simple as them supporting endogenics alone. Your safe spaces aren't actually safe if you exclude a nonharmful group who also belong in that space due to having a personal identity or opinion different to yours. If you want somewhere to be a safe, inclusive space, it should include everyone as long as letting those people in won't cause harm. People who are seeking to cause harm (racists, transphobes, etc) obviously do not belong in a safe space because they seek to harm others, thus making the space unsafe. But people who just want to be themselves without harming anyone should be included in your space if they fall under whatever it may be topic-wise. Even the "cringey" ones. Even the ones who don't quite make sense to you or have "contradicting" labels. Even the ones who use labels completely differently to the way you do. And even the ones who are uninformed or misinformed but trying their best to learn. Your safe space is not safe if it excludes those who do not follow your every single mindset and thought without any deviation.

Alright, there's been a rather disturbing trend I'm noticing with a lot of Anti Endos right now, and I feel as though it's something I need to call to attention.

When I see Anti Endos making posts like "I had an ex who was an Endo system and they did x, y and z to me and now I hate all Endogenic systems because all of them are pieces of shit just line my ex!"

Holy shit, we need to take a step back and dissect that for a second.

First off, nobody should have to go through that shit, regardless of stance on online discourse. Some of the shit I've seen on posts like these is downright despicable, and nobody should be subjected to that. So for any Anti Endos seeing this who this post applies to, yeah, I'm sorry you had to go through hell at the hands of people like that, because guess what? Even though we have differing opinions, you still didn't deserve that shit.

With that out of the way, FOR FUCK'S SAKE, stop with the hasty generalization. Just because one or two Endogenic systems put you through hell does not mean we are all pieces of shit! That only means the systems you interacted with before are pieces of shit! It's the exact same thing as saying "Well, a dog bit me, so that means all dogs are horrible animals and need to be put down!"

Or (and I'm using these examples to purely put this into perspective, so get mad about it), "A trans person abused me, so that means every trans person is bad and horrible and we need to dehumanize all Trans people because they don't belong!!!!" Or even "This one furry is a zoophile, so that means every furry is a zoophile and needs to be shoved out of every single space they possibly have!"

This is a logical fallacy, and a very prominent one at that. Please, please fucking realize that just because a few bad apples did some horrible things they most definitely shouldn't have, that doesn't mean the entire group is bad. Please fucking stop generalizing all Endogenic systems for your personal experiences, because guess what?

A lot of us are actually really nice people, if you'd give us a chance. We're not all heartless monsters.

Top three most insane end0 posts I've ever seen:

This one needs no explaining

It's the last paragraph, plus the "resetting" the system part (PROGRAMMED SYSTEM TERM)

Also needs...no explanation

r/systemscringe mods are now encouraging people to doubt abuse victims specifically because they say they have dissociative disorders...

Yesterday r/systemscringe added someone new to their hit list. Part of this included accusations of grooming against this individual. I'm not going to talk about those specific accusations since they aren't anyone I know nor anyone I expect my followers would be interacting with. (As I understand, they're an anti-endo TikToker)

What I do want to talk about was this disclaimer r/systemscringe mod u/DizkoLites added to their post:

Now I will note that there can be good reason to be skeptical of any allegations. People do lie for all sorts of reasons. I've had plenty of lies spread about me personally, including directly by r/systemscringe members and moderators. It's unfortunate that there are bad people out there who will take advantage of the trusting nature of human beings in order to lie and hurt others, and that this erodes trust in genuine reports of abuse.

But this has gone further than just general skepticism and is arguing that abuse allegations from systems should be distrusted just for them being systems and talking about being systems.

So here is a reminder: if any systems from r/systemscringe are reading this right now... these people are not your friends. These people cannot be trusted.

The hatesub r/systemscringe is not only pushing ableism and hate, but is specifically encouraging people to disbelieve trauma reports from anyone who dares be open about having DID.

This is not innocent. This is not harmless. This is not victimless.

Their members over the past few months have attempted to rebrand their subreddit as a place of education. And it's unknown the reach of their 30,000+ members. How many are medical professionals? How many are lawyers or judges? How many are police officers? How many will become these things in the future?

Make no mistake, your so-called friends in r/systemscringe are actively working towards making the world less likely to believe and trust you when you report being a victim of trauma and abuse. The next time someone doesn't believe you because you're a system, remember that it's because of people like this.

Shame on you r/systemscringe. And you specifically, u/DizkoLites.

get endogenic 👍

blinkies by me, like or rb if you use! credit appreciated but not required.

radqueers don't touch

(Probably Bad) Ways To Respond To Accidentally Using We/Us Instead Of I/Me

inspired by another post we saw (Probably Bad Ways to Respond to "you're not acting like yourself")

We are The Borg. Resistance is futile.

Me and the parasite, obviously

The wretched fungus has taken over my mind

Of course! Me and my stand, [insert song/band name here]!

(turns to a random direction and winks)

That's right! Because yooouuuu're on Hidden Camera!

(turns around) Hey, wait- Guys? Guys!?

Feel free to add on to this, this was just everything we could think of

We're confused on why anti-endos seem to hate the idea of someone having headmates because they wanted to??? Like alters such as protectors, caretakers, and more are there to help the system, hence the name protectors and caretakers. If someone wants people like this in their head, why not just let them??? If it's helping them make their life better and less lonely, why get mad over it? BEING PLURAL DOESN'T HAVE TO BE COMPLETELY TRAUMATIC AND TERRIBLE!!

Guess what (not out yet) endo system had to hold back tears when their mom was talking about how endos aren't real! 🤫🧏🎉🥰

Oh oh! And guess what? She kept bringing up "Alastor" as a sign they are faking being a system! And guess who was co-fronting with me when this was happening? 🥳🥳

-🏳️‍🌈