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short-wooloo · 2 months

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The way some people try to interpret/depict Dooku as a guy who at first earnestly founded the Separatists as a genuine peaceful attempt to secede from the Republic and establish a new better government only to fall into darkness later is...

It's just false

By the time Dooku established the separatists any desire for peace and reform were out the window, he wanted war and to create an empire with himself as the emperor (once he got rid of Palpatine)

That's canon, just look at the timeline

The Confederacy of Independent Systems (the separatists) is formed in 24 bby (2 years before Attack of the Clones and the outbreak of war)

Dooku is working for Sidious before The Phantom Menace (32 bby), and is in fact getting production of the Clone Army started at the sane time if not before the movie

Dooku had well since past over any well intentioned genuine reformist aims by the time he started the separatists

#wooloo writes #wooloo-writes #star wars #sw #count dooku #darth tyranus #dooku #anti dooku #dooku critical #anti separatists #confederacy of independent systems

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charmwasjess · 3 months

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The “What if Dooku Trains Obi-Wan instead of Qui-Gon AU” is genuinely precious to me and I think they would thrive.

Still, can you imagine how much initial adjustment it take be for Obi-Wan “Qui-Gon Isn’t Following The Rules and It’s Giving Me a Stomach Ache” Kenobi to be trained by the guy Qui-Gon learned that from?

A typical Master Dooku mission canon example from Dooku: Jedi Lost

Dooku: the mission is called Space Nascar and we have to do a shot everytime someone pisses me off Dooku: see the Council assigns me these sorts of elbow-rubbing rich people event missions because of my “good” “stable” personality Dooku: for example I’ve almost gotten in two separate fights and we’ve been here five minutes Dooku: Now let’s go steal a speeder, I just Force-threw a cop

Qui-Gon is rattled by this. QUI-GON JINN.

On the other hand, Obi-Wan’s existing partnerships prove he’s able to thrive under chaos. Dooku, for all his faults, seems to have the singular ability as a Master to produce incredibly self-confident students. He’s repeatedly established as someone who genuinely loves teaching and is a natural at it, who is at their best when part of a Master Padawan partnership - which seemed to be a struggle for Qui-Gon. Ultimately he and Obi-Wan built a loving, successful partnership, but in every timeline it seems to have been initially rocky and took years to flourish. The difference in Obi-Wan having a Master who is tremendously engaged and invested in him from the get-go, but also deeply chaotic?

Makashi Chaos Monster Obi-Wan. Oh no, he’s a duelist just like his dad and bitchier than ever! The part of him that is inclined to say things like “Sith Lords are our Specialty” is given room to grow and thrive. His monologues increase tenfold and he has a lightsaber form where they’re built right in. The quips! The amount of leaving a conversation that’s going badly by jumping out a window (pulling a Dooku)!

It’s so beautiful. 🥲

#dooku #obi wan kenobi #star wars meta #qui gon jinn #this is not qui-gon critical btw I think him not being a natural teacher but blooming into one over their partnership is truly beautiful #dooku was probably a fucking mess the first few years of training rael #disaster lineage

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ecoamerica · 24 days

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antianakin · 1 year

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It's hilarious that a lot of the main darksiders and Sith all have WAY more sympathetic reasons than Anakin does for why they're Sith, or why they Fell.

Maul apparently was literally stolen (or given away) as a child and raised by a Sith, he had zero choice in becoming one.

Dooku became disillusioned with the corruption in the Republic and how it was taking advantage of and hurting its own people that he had sworn his life to protecting and then got lost in searching for the power to try to protect those same people.

Savage is literally magicked into being Dark against his will because he sacrifices himself to spare his younger brother the same fate.

Quinlan Vos's falls (one in the comic, and one in the novel) are both about trying to end the war by infiltrating Dooku's inner circle as his apprentice and not realizing how far he's fallen in the process.

Barriss Offee becomes disillusioned with the way the Senate has taken advantage/control of the Jedi Order and gets lost in her own grief over what she's been asked to do in the war.

The closest to Anakin's bullshit reasoning is actually Asajj Ventress who becomes a slave as a baby, spends some years learning to be a Jedi, and then goes dark after she loses one person because misery loves company.

But Anakin literally commits whole genocides because he's scared of losing someone who's NOT EVEN DEAD YET. He's not even reacting to a loss that's HAPPENED TO HIM, he's just searching for power to stop someone from ever dying who is perfectly alive and in good health with no signs of kicking the bucket any time soon.

Like. Talk about an unsympathetic backstory. And it didn't help that every other Darksider (aside from Palpatine) managed to have a WAY more sympathetic reason for them having turned Dark than Anakin does.

What a weak-willed pissbaby.

#star wars #darth maul #count dooku #savage oppress #quinlan vos #barriss offee #asajj ventress #anti anakin skywalker #anakin skywalker critical #anakin critical #anti anakin #they could not have made anakin less sympathetic if they'd TRIED

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aleatoryw · 2 months

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I keep seeing people in the ventress tag saying they read dark disciple and it was soooo good.... what part was good, exactly? the part where quinlan says he's going to make a stupid reckless decision and tells ventress to wait in the car and she's like "okay💗 yay💗"? the part where dooku kills her without saying a word to her because he was trying to kill quinlan, whose relationship with him was developed entirely off-page? the part where she's buried in the sexy revealing dress she hated because quinlan liked her best feminine? the part where quinlan gets treated like an idiot the whole book because "snarky grumpy woman and her himbo sunshine boyfriend" was the only trope they could apparently make work here? the part where the Jedi get a bunch of people killed and at the end are like "ah well, we've all learned a valuable lesson about the dark side!"?

#dark disciple #mannnnn i went in so unprepared for much i was going to hate that book #star wars critical i guess? whatever it may not even be canon anymore #the way they changed ventress' entire character the second she was 'in love'.... the way she collapsed emotionally when she lost quinlan #she's lost people before! it's her whole thing! she's stronger than she was when she lost her master. that's why she doesn't go dark again!#the back half of the book did both of them so dirty but especially asajj. her entire history w dooku reduced to 'they don't like each other'

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evilestgentleman · 8 months

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THIRD PLACE POLL

Propaganda under cut

Essek

Previous Poll

Dooku

Previous Poll: Round 1 Additional Propaganda: Evil, exquisite, expensive pyjamas

#final round #essek thelyss #critical role #count dooku #star wars

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jedi-enthusiast · 10 months

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I'm gonna be honest, literally no one can get mad at me for not having Anakin Skywalker turn back to the Light in my fic while also having Ventress and Savage turn back to the Light and implying that Dooku does in the future, because I WAS GOING TO!!!

I WAS GONNA GIVE THAT ASSHOLE THE BEST REDEMPTION ARC IN THE FIC, WITH TONS OF SYMPATHY AND EVERYTHING!!!

BUT THEN ANAKIN APOLOGISTS AND ANTI-JEDI PEOPLE STARTED POSTING ON MY BLOG AND I WENT "FUCK THAT"

so yeah, if you're gonna get mad at that decision, all I'm saying is that I was gonna be nice but y'all made me spiteful as hell

#and yes #before anyone says anything #my fic is gonna be HIGHLY critical of Dooku and the other Darksiders and they're definitely gonna face consequences #eventually turning back to the Light doesn't mean pretending that they never did all the shitty things they did #it just means that they're gonna try to fix what they can and be held accountable and do better in the future #star wars #sw prequels #the clone wars #ao3 fanfic #codywan fanfic #fanfic #pro jedi #anti anakin skywalker #anti anakin apologists #anakin skywalker critical #yan dooku #count dooku #asajj ventress

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purple-ant · 3 months

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Poison

The beam of light from the funeral pyre thins, and Jedi slowly leave the hall. Everyone is silent. Only Rael asks to be left alone with the cooling ashes. Dooku closes the doors as quietly as possible, not taking his eyes off the hunched shoulders of his old Padawan until the last moment. The shell of Nim's lightsaber burned down along with her, but the heart of the blade - the kyber - is held tightly by Rael in his hands.

The narrow corridor is not filled with Jedi for long. It is late, the Padawans are already dozing in the arms of their Masters, exhausted beyond their years with grief for their friend. Dooku does not move far from the door, he stops near the stained glass window, his hood pulled up mourning. The funeral floor is too low for sunlight, so soft lanterns behind colored glass are the only thing that disperses the darkness.

The initial disbelief and shock have passed, and Dooku feels empty. Death is never fair, it does not choose, and there are no other reasons for it other than human greed... But still, Dooku wants to helplessly ask. Why Nim? Why, of all the lights of the Galaxy, was this one, young and untouched, extinguished?

Dooku feels old.

“I didn’t expect you to come,” Qui-Gon’s voice sounds in the solemn silence, Dooku does not take his devastated gaze from the stained glass window. There is no image, a simple familiar pattern of circles and straight lines.

“I barely made it,” he admits. The flight to the Temple seems short, wild and at the same time a blurry moment to him: one second he ends negotiations and receives a ragged, stumbling message from Rael, and the next he is breaking through Coruscant traffic. “She was my grandpadawan.”

Was.

Qui-Gon gives a low chuckle and Dooku blinks, finally turning his head to look at his old Padawan. The young man's gaze is gloomy, and the dim light does not smooth out the heavy wrinkles that have appeared on his face in recent months.

“Is there something wrong?”

All wrong. Nim is dead. The child is dead, killed, and his first Padawan is broken with grief and guilt.

“I didn’t know you cared about your grandpadawans,” Qui-Gon answers defiantly. “It’s not like you care about Xanatos.”

For a second, Dooku is sure that he heard wrong. An auditory hallucination caused by nervous exhaustion is not something he experiences often, but... The silence rings.

“What?” he asks anyway, giving Qui-Gon a chance to think carefully about his next words.

“You weren't so concerned when Xanatos left,” Qui-Gon repeats, and the emptiness inside Dooku flares with cold anger. He can feel the flashes trailing behind the billowing flaps of his cloak as he whirls around to face his second Padawan.

“Do you dare,” he mutters through clenched teeth, “to compare this boy’s selfish flight with Nim’s death?”

“The Council should not have sent him on that mission!” Qui-Gon puts forward the usual argument. “At least this time they listened to common sense,” his gaze slides to the locked doors.

The Council is going to investigate this mission in a special manner, considering that Rael's actions lead to Nim's death. They were given time for the funeral and mourning, but nothing more.

“Do you... agree with them?” Dooku can hardly believe it. Rael has supported Qui-Gon since he became Dooku's Padawan, the boys were like brothers, and yet Qui-Gon looks into his eyes without doubt.

“Yes. You yourself noted that Rael loves battles more than a Jedi should. Apparently Padawan Pianna was the one who paid for this…”

“Silence!”

The word, the order, echoes down the corridor like a clap of thunder, and Qui-Gon falls silent. His eyes widen in shock for a second, and then narrow, as if he has confirmed something. Dooku had hoped never to feel this way about his Padawans, his lineage, but his fingertips tingle with cold, furious energy, and he presses his hand closer to his body, clenching his fists.

“It’s time for you to let this go, Qui-Gon,” Dooku bites every word. “And if you cannot do this, then keep your poison to yourself, and do not turn it against Rael. He doesn't need it now.”

“This is not poison, Dooku, this is the truth that you do not want to see because of your attachment! Why is it that when I lose a padawan everyone turns away, but when Rael kills-”

The blow is short and not very good, it reverberates with pain in Dooku’s tightly clenched hand, his nails digging into his palm. For a moment he thinks he has done more damage to himself than to the Master in front of him, but Qui-Gon stumbles back, clutching his nose.

Two ragged breaths drown in the ensuing silence. Slowly, Qui-Gon moves his hands away from his face and looks at the blood staining his fingers, black in the twilight, then the disbelieving gaze of his blue eyes turns to Dooku.

“I knew it.”

“Get out of my sight.”

“The Force will judge,” Qui-Gon leaves the last word and departs. Slowly Dooku unclenches his fists. The emptiness returns even heavier than before.

He returns to the entrance to the hall, unable to stand still any longer. He would never have thought that Qui-Gon would say something like that. Where did Dooku go wrong?

The faded presence of his first Padawan is closer than Dooku expects, and as he opens the heavy doors he is instantly confronted with an ashen, dark gaze.

“Rael...” Dooku isn’t sure what he’s going to say.

“No need,” the prematurely aged Jedi shakes his head too quickly, “...in the end, he’s right.”

#okay okay i LOVE qui-gon #hes an interesting character #but also LET THE MAN BE THE PROBLEM #thanks charm for beta reading #qui gon jinn #count dooku #rael averross #nim pianna #qui-gon critical #im not sure how CRITICAL this is but just to be sure #its very dark time for this lineage #disaster lineage

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supremechancellorrex · 10 months

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Now, I gotta say, I find it interesting how there are some people that target you for stating your opinion on fiction. I've had this same Jedi-stan user sending me tens and tens of comments which are based on denial and opinion rather than any logical argument. Now, they're telling others not to read my arguments because... what, it's too scary? They literally reblog my post with a quite insulting argument and then quickly block me because they don't want me to respond.

Well, too bad.

This isn't even an argument based on logic. You just stated your opinion and acted like it was a fact, anyone else who believes differently is doing so "foolishly", more "foolishly" than a child apparently. Because despite much evidence to the contrary in children's media, apparently 'villains' never have any depth or say the truth ever, according to you.

Slick: "Yes, she offered me money. But she offered me something more important, something you wouldn't understand: freedom!"

You know the one thing Slick doesn't actually have? It's freedom. Because, he is a slave, that is a fact. Let's go through the fact that slave isn't a title you award but a state of existence and being, a slave by definition is: "a person who is forced to work for and obey another and is considered to be their property; an enslaved person." That is the clones to a T. Just because Slick was selfish doesn't just invalidate he described a situation which still has not been refuted and instead has been only proven over and over again.

Now, you say "the clones are property of the Republic", and they are under the command... of the Jedi, who are generals and part of the Republic command structure. Legally, the Jedi may not have a say in the fate of the clone troopers other than being in charge of their daily actions and organisation for years, but illegally? Are you claiming that the Jedi could not even think to organise a mass desertion? When the law is unjust, you challenge it, you break it. Now, you try to absolve them here by saying that they had no choice because the Separatists were a threat to the Republic, an institution that supports slavery for its own ends. You may hate it but "Cool motive, still slavery" still applies here. Any institution that supports having an enslaved army does not deserve to exist, and that includes the Jedi Order's support of the Republic.

As for your non-sequitur on the placement of the episode, this is just pointless. There is no basis to discount an episode just because it wasn't in Season 4. This adds nothing to your argument and is just a complete fallacy.

You can't really make this argument on a number of basises. One, the writing intentions have clearly changed since that initial George Lucas' quote decades ago. Not only this, but George Lucas doesn't even own Star Wars anymore and Disney are now in charge, with Dave Filoni and a number of other writers making significant contributions.

Dave Filoni: "So I think that trying to draw these paths of the Jedi and the choices they make and how they wind up good or bad … Yoda isn’t afraid in the prequels to say the Jedi are flawed and that they’ve become greedy and self-interested and arrogant. That helps you understand why they’re going to lose the Clone War and why they’re so ripe for the picking."

I think this quote speaks for itself. Also, I think it was very clear that George Lucas, a man well-known for changing his mind and who was still the executive producer, was on Ahsoka's side in the Wrong Jedi Arc. Otherwise at some point the narrative would have refuted her assertions on the Jedi Order, that's just basic storytelling.

Now, onto the clones. You essentially admit that the draft is essentially slavery in the clones' case. The clones are property and are referred to as such, they can't leave, they can't vote, they have no rights and this has been the case since they were fetuses in tubes. Let's look at Umbara again.

Fives: "We did it. We took Umbara."

Captain Rex: "What’s the point of all this? I mean, why?"

Fives: "I don’t know, sir. I don’t think anybody knows. But I do know that someday this war is gonna end."

Captain Rex: "Then what? We’re soldiers. What happens to us then?"

Considering the fact that the Senate are voting on whether to "decommission" the clones like a product in the Bad Batch, I think it's safe to say that Captain Rex's fears were confirmed. Senator Riyo Chuchi, an actual good person in a bad system, is literally fighting to give the clones any rights at all in the Bad Batch, and she is a lonely voice.

Riyo Chuchi: "[The Clones] are not droids to simply be shut down. These are soldiers who defended us, defended our worlds"

Meanwhile, when the Jedi wax on about the end of the War, they just assume they'll be fulfilling the same duties they did before the war. This is because the Jedi are privileged and are treated as citizens during the War, able to walk around completely uncumbered and engage on a conversational level with the elite. They can also leave the Order, especially if they break the code, which is not something allowed for the clones. They may be servants, but they aren't property, and they have more tools to push back and fight the Senate, which they can walk around freely in a venerated position. You practically say this throughout your argument. Over all, the Jedi are drafted, the clones are slaves. There is a difference in the power dynamic.

The Clone Wars waived the right to be dismissed solely as "It's just a superificial kids show, don't criticise" when it decided to deal with dark, serious topics, including the Republic's growing authoritarianism, political maneuvering, slaughter and murder. All those cases of the Jedi challenging their leaders simply make it more egregious that the Jedi never advocated for the clones to the same level. The fact Mace Windu is willing to fight tooth and nail for the Zillo Beast, however demonstrates no passion to fight for the clone rights, who are slaves soldiers under his command, is actually a pretty bad look. There are also clones that died around the same time as Even Piell, yet they get no rites either.

It's funny you mention Qui Gon Jinn because his opposition to the Jedi Council has been noted previously and it is a critique of the Jedi Order.

Dave Filoni: "I think Qui-Gon in a lot of ways represents the kind of path the Jedi are supposed to be on. He’s the one that’s the most compassionate. But he has no ambition to be part of the council. He feels he can’t do what he needs to do if he’s a part of that. That thinking and that philosophy is from what Dooku taught him. Dooku was a free-thinker and was looking out for people."

Oh, you know Dooku too? The guy who said "The Jedi blindly serve a corrupt Senate that fails the Republic it represents." Looks like he imparted some spirit to his Padawan. Ultimately, this actually supports my arguments that the Jedi Order have lost their way as an institution. Now, earlier you say it "sucks" the Jedi can't allegedly speak out because of the draft, at the same time you... have Jedi speaking out on every topic that isn't clones. Hmm.

Well, mademoiselle-cookie, you have crossed into antisemitic territory here and it's shockingly disgusting of you. The Jedi should not be considered an expy of Jewish people, because that would be really racist of the writers and very misrepresentative. Jewish people are not a fictional order of magic monks that wave lightsabers around, fighting wars with state-owned clone slaves, believe it or not. Going through your argument until now has been bearable, but this really takes the cake. I've warned people to stop using real-life minority groups as meat-shields for their fictional favs, however it seems that privileged people will often use minority groups instinctively for their benefit. The fact you accuse me, a mixed race gay man, as being the type to fall for Nazi lies because I critique the Jedi Order is just the icing on the cake.

Also, you argue "it's a kid's show" and then it's a direct allegory for the Holocaust, one of the darkest periods in human history, at the same time, huh? If this were the case, it would mean it's portrayal is even more important to critique without exception.

But, moving on from your just completely inappropriate allegory. So, the Jedi have a "choice" as you just state. That's much more the clones ever had and that is a privilege. You're essentially arguing for the Jedi to stand back and do nothing by choice while earlier you also argued that the Jedi had to do something in regards to the War as it was the moral choice but also that they 'don't' have a choice. Meanwhile, the Jedi were shown to be willing to overthrow Palpatine given the 'proper motivation', but due to their lack of compassion I guess the enslavement of millions of men such as the clones just wasn't important enough. Your argument falls apart because the Jedi did try to overthrew Palpatine in the end, just not for the slaves.

Using the "Bad guys lie" trope in an absolute capacity is also not an argument. You're just stating your opinion as a fact again and it's very 'convenient' your metric. I could reply "Good guys can be wrong and don't always tell the truth" and we'd, like your point, get nowhere.

Finally, an interesting point. There's no denying that Ahsoka did not make the situation as squeaky clean in her desperation, however ultimately my point still stands that Mace Windu, and I quoted him, said "I understand your sentiment, Obi-Wan. But, if the council does as you suggest. It could be seen as an act of opposition to the Senate. I'm afraid we have little choice."

At the end of the day, the Jedi do have a choice despite what Windu says. The choice was political. The ruling isn't unanimous, because doubts are expressed, but as Mace Windu says what they view as important in response to Obi-Wan saying things don't add up regarding Ahsoka is to focus how it looks to the Senate, a Senate that supports authoritarianism, corruption and slavery. The Jedi arguably lie to themselves and say they support justice, but they don't ultimately. As Jedi Master Dooku, the described "free-thinker", says: "The Jedi blindly serve a corrupt Senate that fails the Republic it represents."

Hmm, you don't seem to understand what an "unreliable narrator" actually is. With your use especially, every single character ever could be described as an unreliable narrator, I can describe Mace Windu as an unreliable narrator or Obi-Wan. I could literally flip your argument and claim the Jedi are unreliable narrators who only think they're doing good because they were raised in an environment which told them this from a young age and ultimately they were propping up a failing, authoritarian, corrupt 'Republic'.

I don't think you realise that Ahsoka's story would not have been presented the way it was in Season 7 if the narrative was not on her side. There were key cues in its structure and quotations that were critical of the Jedi Order, who were mostly in opposition to Ahsoka narratively.

Ahsoka: "This is why the people have lost faith in the Jedi. I had, too, until I was reminded of what the Order means to people who truly need us.”

What a coincidence that Obi-Wan, a man gifted with the gab, fails to counter this criticism as well. Just like Slick.

We literally see the Jedi propping up the Republic system for the near entirely of the War. They allowed "the destruction of innocent life-forms", the clones, men brainwashed and forced into combat. They also conducted military investigations, deferred to the Senate, and I think it's very telling that Rex did not reveal Cut Lawquane's location to either the Jedi or the rest of the Republic. As Generals, they are a part of the hierarchy, and they support the Republic, a hegemony of laws and demarcations. Also, last I checked, Satine isn't a slave, I only wish Obi-Wan had gone out of his way to protect the clones as people, but I guess he only does that for citizens.

As for Order 66, again, this isn't an argument on your part. I'm well-aware of events, nor did I say they deserved to be murdered. The Jedi Order, specificially their leadership, made "poor choices" and it screwed them over. I also find your Nazi allegory more disgusting personally, but whatever. Now, let's see what the Jedi are actually doing.

Dave Filoni: "They’ve, as an institution, existed for a very long time. It doesn’t mean they’re evil or bad, but they’re making a lot of poor choices, and they can’t get out ahead of things in part because they’re desperately attempting to do things the right way and take an even stance.”

The centrist stance the Jedi take on most matters clearly contributed to their downfall. They made "poor choices" and I am critiquing them for it because allowing slavery at the heart of the Republic is not just a poor choice, but a stupid and immoral one. They are 'desperately attempting to do things the right way', but they don't, and this is why actual criticisms are levied at them. Again, I never argued the Jedi were evil, I argued they should be held accountable for their flaws and mistakes, like everyone should be.

I like how you completely misunderstood my point here despite many other people getting it. The problem is that the Jedi do have a choice, it's just a difficult one. However just because doing the right thing is difficult does not mean you shouldn't do it. The problem with the Jedi allowing countless clones, who are slaves, to die for years and that not prompt them to confront, combat or even overthrow the Republic is it makes them very morally bankrupt. As soon as the Republic said it was going to utilise slaves, the Jedi should have realised the Republic was the enemy of human decency itself. But, as we know from just watching Star Wars media with basic critical thinking or this exchange in Rebels...

Ezra: "Master Yoda, you’re powerful. You must know a way to destroy Vader and his Inquisitors.”

Master Yoda: “Padawan, thousands of Jedi once there were. Then came war. In our arrogance, joined the conflict swiftly we did. Fear, anger hate. Consumed by the dark side the Jedi were.”

I think you need to add more depth to your idea of "good". The Jedi were complicit in their own downfall. The fact you have to jump through so many 'logical' hoops to 'explain' and 'absolve' them is evidence enough. The fact you also dismiss all criticism of the Jedi as anti-Jedi propaganda, even when coming from its own members, from Yoda to Ahsoka, who clearly the narrative sides with. Now, as for your 'the citizens did nothing too' whataboutism argument? Yep. So, if you're arguing the Jedi are as bad as Republic citizens who also enabled clone slavery, then sure, a little 'harsh' of you, but that's what you're actually saying here. Plus, you keep both stating the Jedi have a choice and don't have a choice when it suits you throughout this argument.

And, regardless of whether the SW writers verbally acknowledge the word slavery, it is the story they present by saying the clones are "property" who "have no representation in the Senate". You should watch the Riyo Chuchi episodes in Bad Batch again, because this should be impossible to miss in the discussion of "clone rights". Your attempted use of 'rhetorical' questions instead of an actual argument is also pretty uninspired.

You literally didn't "debunk" anything, mademoiselle-cookie. As usual, you used ad hominem attacks, misused terminology, made antisemitic allegories, and now you're upset someone expressed an opinion you dislike. The fact you warn other people not to read my opinion as if you're the guardian of Jedi stan tumblr and they couldn't bear having someone make a post they don't agree with is also hilarious, I would hope people are full of sterner stuff. After all, people always have a choice, whether to read or not.

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jupiterjunebug · 6 months

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Unironically love when one person decides to write sweeping redemption fics for villains 99% of their fandom hates. Theyre like listen i know they suck, objectively. Half the time they even admit to not liking them. But theyre still out here writing 80k to make this little freak happy, and im reading it, and then at the end i close the fic and am metaphorically blinking in the bright sun after leaving a movie theater. Something has changed in me but i can never read another fic abt this because only one person went this sort of insane

#sometimes two writers construct fics for the same character and u can see them in each others comments #i started making this post abt the fic where count dooku gets turned into a teenager and just spends the whole fic like #going haha...wow...yikes at his older self #but this is also abt the two extremely elaborate grims wormtongue redemption fics #and the two ace attorney phantom fics #all four of which r multipart fics totalling at multiple hundred thousands of words #i aim to be that unwise about a critically unpopular chara someday...

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coconuts-are-mammals · 1 year

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Okay, BUT

I need to rant about something because I can't get it out of my head

QUI-GON JINN AND DOOKU

THESE TWO >>>>>>

THE GRIEF THAT DOOKU FELT OVER THE LOSS OF THE PERSON WHO WAS ESSENTIALLY HIS SON OU OFSAIUFH WAIUHF

I CRIED SO HARD DURING THAT ONE SCENE IN TALES OF THE JEDI

THE SADNESS OF THEIR RELATIONSHIP

And also, I think it serves as a nice foil to the relationship of Ahsoka and Anakin. Perhaps not intentionally, or not thematically, but in terms of where it ended up as opposed to the younger members of their lineage. Because Ahsoka's grief over loosing the person she once looked up to vs. Dooku grieving over the loss of the person he cared so deeply for.

The fact that Ahsoka, despite all her hardships and tragedies, kept going after the loss of Anakin and developed into such a prominent figure in her later life.

But the fact that Dooku, after being beaten down after so much and being at such a low point in his life, traumatized, and manipulated by Palpacreep, fell completely after the death of the person in his life he cherished most.

Just...

The EVERYTHING.

The differences in what it's like experiencing loss, either death or corruption of a loved one into someone you don't recognize, shining through in this story when comparing the two characters to each other.

And I hate to get controversial, but I feel as if a lot of people judge Ahsoka and Dooku's story on stuff that primarily isn't canon, which leads to the characters being misshapen into something that differs so much from their original form (like Obi-Wan is.)

Ahsoka and Dooku both lost what was a very similar amount to them, but they handled it so differently and came out on complete opposite ends of the spectrum. And yes, I'm aware that Dooku 'fell' or was at least working with Sidious before Qui-Gon was dead, but he would have had quite a good chance to return to the Jedi, had his Padawan not been killed and he himself not driven to the edge.

And I haven't seen Rebels, so I don't really know much about Ahsoka's character development past the finale of the Clone Wars, and I know that there's a lot more development in Rebels then most would like to admit, but I think that a lot of her hardships are shown through her behavior or personality in the later seasons, after the Wrong Jedi arc. Not all are positive, but there's certainly some perks of her experiences.

But, I will say that I'm not impartial to bias towards Dooku and against Ahsoka (i mean, if you got this far in my rant, you probably know this already) due to the fact that I can't relate to Ahsoka as much, BUT I do think that, taking a break from character analysis and moving towards writing analysis, Dooku is a better character in terms of the pace of his development. He was given what is, excluding Tales of the Jedi, likely an hour of ACTUAL development, but Tales of the Jedi, while being a bit rushed and controversial, managed to do SO MUCH with a character given so little, but SO LITTLE with a character given so much.

#Am I concerned that I relate heavily to a ruthless dictator who murdered many of his own friends and companions and committed some-#-old fashioned genocide? yes. I am concerned.#Anyways #Have to go #Gonna go WEAP over 'I used to bring Qui-Gon here as a boy...'#have fun #Feel free to contradict some of the points I made with Ahsoka #Also Dooku #But good luck finding points to contradict #Because there really isn't a lot on him (which is one reason he's such a great character and Ahsoka sort of falls flat for me_#i mean #its hard to do anything nuanced or interesting with a character given seven seasons #multiple cameos #an important role in a different multiseasoned and lengthy show #and an upcoming live action spin #but I do quite like her thematically #ANYWAYS #Ahsoka Critical #Star Wars #Star Wars: The Clone Wars #Star Wars: The Prequel Trilogy #iaminaminoramountofpain rants #Jedi Master Dooku #Brief mentions of Qui-Gon Jinn in relation to his living successors #Rebels #Sorta #convoluted opinions #Tales of the Jedi (is underrated)

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ecoamerica · 24 days

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youtube

Watch the American Climate Leadership Awards 2024 now: https://youtu.be/bWiW4Rp8vF0?feature=shared

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antianakin · 1 year

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Man, now that I've made the connection between Palpatine intentionally manipulating Anakin against the Jedi and Anakin somewhat unintentionally poisoning Ahsoka against the Jedi, I can't unsee it.

We have this lineage that, yes, is called the disaster lineage, but is full of such beautiful wonderful Jedi who seem to have genuinely loved being a Jedi (at least, for a while in Dooku's case) and genuinely loved teaching and loved their students. And we see how that love and passion and dedication DID get passed down. We can see Yoda's patience and cleverness in Dooku, Dooku's passion in Qui-Gon, Qui-Gon's love and determination in Obi-Wan. We can even see some of Obi-Wan's lessons in Anakin every so often.

But Anakin isn't listening the same way everyone else was. Anakin doesn't believe the same way everyone else did.

Anakin gives lip service to the lessons he learned from Obi-Wan ("purpose before feelings") and Ahsoka certainly HEARS them, but she's also picking up just as much from Anakin's actual actions and choices and the lessons he teaches that go unsaid as she ever is from the few times he throws out some platitudes. She picks up on his mistrust of the Council, his belief that the Jedi aren't good enough. She knows that he wants to leave, that he's not even necessarily HAPPY as a Jedi all the time. She picks up on his disobedience and arrogance and impatience and puts herself in dangerous situations because of it. She sees his attachments, his attachment to HER, his attachments maybe even to Padme and Obi-Wan.

Anakin passes on just as much if not more of what he learned from PALPATINE than he ever did from Obi-Wan. Because actions can speak louder than words, and Anakin's actions show where his beliefs and values truly lie, and it isn't with the Jedi.

So Anakin breaks the lineage. He destroys Ahsoka's hopes of ever truly being a good Jedi Knight long before he commits genocide against the Order because he'd already started turning her against them, potentially without even realizing that that's what he was doing. Ahsoka got trained by Darth Vader, by Palpatine's apprentice, before he took on the name and position officially.

Which raises the question of whether Ahsoka WOULD'VE stayed in the Order ultimately in a situation where the Wrong Jedi arc doesn't happen, Palpatine is killed early, and Anakin stays for longer for one reason or another, but remains married to Padme and living a life of secrecy and lies. Would Ahsoka have ultimately had just enough mindfulness to decide to walk away? Would she have always decided the Jedi were too busy playing politics to truly help anyone, or did that only happen because of the Wrong Jedi arc? Would Anakin's training of her always have ultimately led to that end just because he's giving her Palpatine's poison, but she grew up on Jedi foundations of mindfulness that would give her the ability to actually walk away that Anakin has never had?

#anakin skywalker #ahsoka tano #disaster lineage #count dooku #obi-wan kenobi #qui-gon jinn #yoda #sheev palpatine #palpatine #anakin skywalker critical #anti anakin #anti anakin skywalker #ahsoka tano critical #star wars

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gch1995 · 2 years

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I swear the apologists get stupider with every take- the scene in TPM where a circle of unsmiling masters picked apart the psyche of a scared slave boy, telling him his fear and love of his mother is a sign of darkness, and reject him to his face was 'therapy' and it was on the child for not understanding.

The Jedi Order had become a very elitist, hypocritical, and and isolating insular cult that produced a lot of deeply dysfunctional adults. Not just Anakin Skywalker, and not just the recruits who went dark. While the Council and the Jedi masters weren’t responsible for the overall actions and crimes of their recruits, and while the Jedi who went dark in the prequels weren’t without their own flaws, I really don’t think the fact that Anakin, Dooku, Barriss, and Ventress went dark in the first place, while their colleagues didn’t, really stems from them being morally “weak” in comparison to Obi-Wan Kenobi, Yoda, and the other Jedi adults of their time either.

Just like them, Obi-Wan, Yoda, Mace-Windu, and the other Jedi adults of their time had no problem being exceedingly hostile towards enemies, being deceitful and manipulative bastards in regards to those who served their own ends, being oppressive, committing war crimes indiscriminately, sacrificing their consciences, and sacrificing their personal agency to corrupt government figures and corrupt authority figures for the “greater good.” Just like Anakin and the other Jedi who went dark, they developed and/or had very arrogant, in-denial, and self-centered personalities.

The biggest difference between Anakin, Dooku, Barriss, and Ventress versus many of the adults of the Jedi they grew up with who didn’t go dark, doesn’t really have much to do with some sort of inherent character defect in the morality in those who went dark versus those who remained in the light in the prequels. It has to do with emotional/mental stability and a lack of awareness of what the world was like outside of just the Jedi Order. Obi-Wan, Yoda, Mace Windu, and many of the other Jedi who grew up in the Order of the prequels developed many of the same flaws that many of the Jedi of their time who went dark developed in the Order, but they remained emotionally/mentally stable and largely complacent in the toxicity of the Order, while Anakin, Dooku, Barriss, and Ventress didn’t because they never really knew what it meant to be have a normal life, relationships, and morality outside of Yoda’s cult. Yeah, they had their own consciences, emotional needs, and individuality, which they learned to disregard to serve Yoda blindly, but it didn’t destroy them trying to fit in because they didn’t think to question the abnormality of it at the same time.

Anakin, Dooku, Barriss, and Ventress went dark because they knew the Jedi Order wasn’t healthy, they knew the outside world, they knew what it was to be normal, and when they realized that it was never going to be this safe task that got them validation when trying to be normal or reach out in in the Order, they tried to do it in secret on the side, while playing lip service to their masters and the Jedi Council in public because their options to do better outside of them had been deeply compromised. That was why they fell, while many other Jedi of their time didn’t. Yeah, in the long run, they committed worse crimes than Obi-Wan and the Jedi Order of their time under Sidious, they weren’t wholly innocent before going dark, but the things that motivated them to fall in the first place didn’t come from having greater character defects than the Jedi of their time who stayed in the Order their whole lives. They came from a place of becoming discontent with an organization they knew was fucked up, which many of their contemporaries could never understand because they had only ever known life inside the Jedi Order.

#Star Wars anon #pt jedi critical #obi wan critical #yoda critical #jedi council fuckery #I don’t think obi wan and the Jedi who stayed in the light as devoted Jedi in the prequels were necessarily morally superior #I really just think they had the luck of not knowing any better and being more emotionally/mentally stable #anakin skywalker #darth vader #Ventress #barriss offee #count dooku #yeah in the long run Anakin’s crimes became worse #but the initial fall didn’t come from Anakin’s morality being lesser than that of obi-wan’s and many of the other adults of the order

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rochenn · 3 months

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The year is 2034. Disney announces the production of the show "Resistance: Dooku of Serenno", set during the early days of the Empire, starring CG Christopher Lee.

We begin with a flashback to Revenge of the Sith. After Dooku is beheaded, we learn that he used the Force to supply his brain with blood and oxygen. The movie is visibly retconned - as Obi-Wan, Anakin and Palpatine flee the Invisible Hand, four human parts can be spotted stealthily floating after them.

Dooku, being Dooku, survives the crash and manages to steal away. His head is surgically reattached. Don't ask why nobody else ever stitched their lightsaber-chopped limbs back on. He ends up getting prosthetic hands, anyway. David Filoni said in a behind-the-scenes interview that he thought they were cool.

Previously established canon prevents Dooku from doing anything in-character until Order 66. He lets loose in Coruscant's undercity and becomes the local kooky old man who couldn't possibly be public enemy number one until Mace Windu, freshly fried and unhanded, crashes down in front of him. What a coincidence.

Mace is still played by Sam L. Jackson. He is So Old. He is only there for the paycheck. Disney didn't know how to recast him. He is acting alongside the shell of a man who has been dead for two decades.

After a joke about missing hands that is very funny, the two get along swimmingly. They don't really talk about Dooku's various war crimes. "My droid army would never traumatize a young child," Dooku says with a wink into the camera. Remember to buy your Mandalorian merch.

Mace and Dooku organize an underground resistance on Coruscant in the spirit of the Confederacy. Mace is okay with this. Choice aspects of this arc are compelling, like the fight against fascism under the yoke of cruel state suppression, but tone-deaf allusions to the work of Sophie Scholl cause controversy abroad. Andor did it better. Critics on YouTube who thus far lauded the return of fan favorites and 'faithful casting' tear into the show for pushing the woke agenda.

Nothing Mace and Dooku accomplish has any impact on the Original Trilogy. What were you expecting? The end of the show teases a second season with the arrival of a mysterious woman. Dooku's secret wife. You never knew of her because she was never relevant before. As the final credit music slowly creeps in, she says: "Don't you want to see your son?"

The music swells and we cut to Serenno. The planet has never been mentioned throughout all 15 episodes of the show. Standing in the ruins of Dooku's castle is Dooku's son: back turned to the viewer, gazing into the sunset. Dooku II of Serenno, proud heir, turns his head. He is played by Harry Styles.

Roll credits.

#count dooku #i #I'm actually so sorry I don't know what overcame me #i wrote this in a trance #shitpost

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