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dandelion-wings · 3 months

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On thing about Mondstadt’s government that bothers me is that everybody boils it down to just the Knights on one side, and the Church on the other. Which, sure, they’re what we know the most about…

But it completely ignores the ‘Community Representative’. Considering their signature is one of three needed to (legally) make use of the Holy Lyre, alongside the Grandmaster and the Seneschal, they must be pretty damn important. So assuming they have equal power to those positions, which are at the head of the Knights and the Church respectively, what actually is that power? Presumably it’s an elected position (the title is that of a ‘representative’, plus I would be severely disappointed if there wasn’t even a hint of democracy in the Nation of Freedom), but is there a structure under it similar to the Knights and Church? Is there a completely separate civilian, secular government that for some reason just barely comes up? If it is elected, how is that handled? If both Grandmaster Varka and the Seneschal are on expedition, does that mean they hold more authority than Acting Grandmaster Jean and whoever is Acting Seneschal (assuming an acting-title’s authority, though still above everything else below the proper-title, is still considered secondary to that of said proper-title)? But if so, why hasn’t it come up? Or is it just some guy elected to act as a more expedient alternative to something like a full referendum?

God, I have an education in history and political science that is just begging for some damn answers!

I mean, I don't have an education in those things and am not real good at working those things out myself, so I don't know that I can provide you too much useful commentary here. XD;; But while I'd love if Mondstadt did have some democracy, I... am pretty convinced that it's a theocracy, actually. The Knights and the Church (which tbh seems to exist under the overall umbrella of the Ordo, given that Jean says in her voiceline about Barbara that "the order also manages the Church") fulfill pretty much all the governmental functions we actually see happening at all, including the whole thing in Jean's quest where Charles expects tax forms from her.

I'll admit I also lean that way because I read into Mondstadt as a whole (its history but also our introduction to it, where Amber initially nabs us for unauthorized entry and then there's a whole early section about gliding regulations) a theme of humans repeatedly being given freedom, and gradually rebuilding restrictions upon themselves. Which I don't think is entirely a bad thing, in that I do think communities generally function better with organization and administration and such, but, like, Mondstadt has gone all the way into tyranny before and could again. Mondstadt building itself an increasingly restrictive theocracy feeds into the theme I like drawing from it, so of course that's the reading I tend towards! But, still, that's where I'm at about it.

(I draw a lot of my read of this national theme from the line, "Mondstadt is the City of Freedom, but unchecked freedom without any kind of rules only invites chaos and anxiety," in Jean's character details, and I haven't seen anyone else talk about it, ever, so it's entirely possible this is actually character brainrot I'm projecting onto the city as a whole. I'm fine with that.)

Presumably there is a further government apparatus, but I tend to believe it's probably under the higher authority of the Ordo. Maybe with checks and balances, maybe not (exactly how I arrange the setup for fic where it's needed is specific to individual fic, because the openness of canon leaves the kind of room that makes it easiest to go with what works for the plot). "Community Representative" on its own is very vague; looking at the line where it actually appears, it's talking about the Holy Lyre in the context of the Ludi Harpastrum, so it could even be a role specific to the yearly organization of that particular festival! That said, it does sound a bit more like it's a regular thing, and given my presumption of theocracy above, I think this:

Or is it just some guy elected to act as a more expedient alternative to something like a full referendum?

honestly is the most likely possibility. It would make sense given Mondstadt's ethos and history--you have a representative of the community to sign off on certain decisions (hopefully elected, as you said, but who knows exactly how it happens), like that one about the Lyre, to show that the people agree. Possibly it's a triangle with the Grand Master at the top and the Seneschal (given the above "manages the Church" line) and Community Representative as equals who have input but not ultimate power on the next level down, possibly they both exist largely to rubberstamp the Grand Master and Seneshal's decisions, possibly it's an area-of-authority divide. Regardless of the exact divisions, Jean does seem to have some fairly unilateral powers in the areas of domestic defense and peacekeeping, but that's... something you do want the head of your military-and-police order to have, generally, so who knows how broad her powers actually are to act without the Seneschal and Representative's approval in other areas. The game is, as always, frustratingly uninformative.

Anyway, tl;dr: my personal reading of Mondstadt tends to render the Community Representative as relatively unimportant, despite the equal billing in that quest, because over and over again in quests and lore and voicelines we don't see anything but "the Ordo handles things," and Mondstadt honestly makes most sense to me as a theocratic city-state. I think they're more likely a representative "voice" in the government than a significant power, and I don't think they represent any significant "third branch" other than possibly, given Mondstadt's history, a symbolic reminder that its people have toppled tyrants before and can do so again.

#asked and answered #knight meta #(i tbh am not great at worldbuilding government stuff which does not help this answer #i am fairly confident about building out internal stuff for the knights specifically #because i am familiar with law-enforcement structure and procedure from the inside and tend to just transfer it #but we get so little lore that full-system speculation is putting together pieces into shapes i don't have the same personal experience for #so sorry if this answer is disappointing anon. it's not my area of experience)#the shape of teyvat

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yannisdesk · 2 months

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I am simultaneously reading The Iliad and The Song of Achilles. It is quite a wild trip, though I am thoroughly enjoying both; but, I want to say something...

I feel like a lot the debate surrounding TSoA is the result of people misunderstanding it's intentions.

I would understand some of the opinions towards TSoA in regards to Iliad accuracy if Madeline Miller did the thing that a lot of Greek Mythology retelling/reworking authors did back in the day, and pretended as if her version of the story was more "accurate" or the "true" version of the myth. But (as far as I can tell) that isn't the case. She's pretty upfront about the fact that this is just another version of Achilles' story using her creative license as an author to create a different take on the narrative using the knowledge she obtained while pursuing her classics degree.

I absolutely do think it's a problem when members of the TSoA fandom try to claim that is the end-all-be-all of Achilles' story, because it isn't. For example, TSoA portrays Achilles as being monogamous-leaning and pretty straightforwardly homosexual (using modern terms here for convenience, I know this is not how Ancient Greeks actually thought about sexuality.) While in mythology, Achilles is more along the lines of bisexual and non-monogamous. Though, the nature of mythology, especially Greek Mythology, is that there is no absolute canon and everything is up for interpretation, so again, that doesn't make TSoA bad by default.

I tend to look at TSoA primarily as a love story before anything else. Honestly, it's a love story about Achilles x Patroclus before it's even an Iliad retelling, half of the book takes place before the war even starts. The tropes and logic of romance novels are going to be present over others that would be expected of an Iliad narrative. I've seen a lot of criticism pointed towards TSoA because it focuses "too much" on Patrochilles and not enough on other characters, but that should be expected, because it's ultimately about the love shared between Achilles and Patroclus. It's kind of like the difference between reading a romance that takes place during medieval Europe, and reading A Song of Ice & Fire. War may happen in the romance, and ASOIAF may have elements of romance in it, but at the end of the day, you're reading them for very different reasons.

Now one thing that can and should be criticized is its treatment of female characters. Thetis and Deidamia are done so fucking dirty and its honestly infuriating. I hear Circe is done better in this regard and I hope so.

#my thoughts #the iliad #the song of achilles #genre #literature #greek mythology

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eilwen · 10 months

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Visiting the Dragon's Nest District

Most cities and towns in No Man's Land have been similar in appearance, with a ship or a portion of a ship watching over its people. However, in Ryutsu, where many things happen, the ship is not the only structure that dominates the landscape.

I wanted to do a dive into the city, what inspired it (and speculate on some of the visuals) and what we can potentially understand about No Man's Land.

Some spoilers for Vol. 4 and 5. Also, this is long.

Even without the baos and wonton-fonts on signage, Ryutsu visually does not match with other cities in No Man's Land. It’s not just the citadel which can be seen from afar, but it’s also the crammed housing and confusing architecture. The tone of Vol. 4 shifts and leans towards neo-noir. As this arc's villains move into the city, Hoppered says: "This place is truly the bottom of the dark. [...] We'll walk into a place where the light does not enter." These lines may not be literal but it certainly brings ideas of seedy places. They move through pitch black and eventually…

The big showdown happens at the city's main feature: the Dragon’s Nest District - an area that brings up memories of the old Kowloon Walled City in Hong Kong. No Man's Land is a sparsely populated planet, yet for whatever reason, people have sardined themselves into this city and into this district.

Kowloon Walled City had been called ‘City of Darkness’ and it was possible to move through the city without ever seeing daylight. It carries a bit of romantised nostalgia because of its weird part in Hong Kong colonial history, its uncontrolled and chaotic construction, and its lawlessness (though apparently the ungoverned city was tight-knit and communal). The city became a source of inspiration for a lot of media, but not many films were shot in the city itself. Those that I had seen tended to use the city as a 'cool film location' so apart from the examples below, there aren't many I know to recommend (happy to take suggestions for films I may have missed).

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Clip from Bloodsport (Arnold, 1988)

"No joke, man. It's a random piece of No Man's Land in the middle of a tourist paradise. It goes way back to the old lease agreement between Great Britain and China. Once you step out of the sunlight into the narrow corridors, it's time to protect your nuts, guys."

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Clip from Crime Story (Wong, 1993). This is the climax of the film, which featured actual explosions from Kowloon's demolition, according to its wiki page.

Off the top of my head, good fiction film substitutes (unrelated and unlike Trigun/Trimax) which more illustrate what life might have been like in these places, may be films like Wong Kar Wai's Fallen Angels (1995) and Chungking Express (1994) - though these films take place at the Chungking Mansions, Kowloon Walled City's more modern cousin. I thought of Wong's films because he treated the mansions as a character more than as a location. His films showed examples of immense density, globalisation, and a bit of that noir crime stuff within small and unusually intimate spaces. They also reflected Hong Kong's complicated anxiety as the city was approaching its handover from British to Chinese rule.

Panel from Vol. 4 Ch. 7; Screencap from Chungking Express (Wong, 1994).

To talk more about Hong Kong cinema itself would be much longer than a tumblr post but if Nightow is connected with Rodriguez's films via Desperado (1995), Rodriguez and his collaborative friend Tarantino are connected with Hong Kong films from those like John Woo and Ringo Lam. One example: Mexican standoffs are tropes used in various films, but we see them frequently enough in Tarantino's films and in Hong Kong action cinema that it becomes noteworthy.

Panel from Vol. 5 Ch. 3

Panel from Vol. 5 Ch. 5

Kowloon Walled City which was demolished in 1993, was visually ‘resurrected’ as Ryutsu's Dragon's Nest. Kowloon Walled City was not a city that just looked interesting. It was an agreement between China and Great Britain that was then kind of weirdly botched, thus leaving it pretty much ungoverned. Trimax Vol. 4 was released in 2000, three years after Hong Kong's handover from Britain to China. We don’t get Ryutsu’s history and with the multiple panels of silhouetted buildings against the night sky and hanging laundry in balconies, Ryutsu’s citadel falls into the 'cool manga location' category. Also, I should be clear: these chapters in Trimax are not an analysis or an allegory of Hong Kong's colonial history.

Panel from Vol. 4 Ch. 4; Photo of Kowloon Walled City's alleyway from wiki article.

At the same time, many eyes, including those outside of Great Britain and China, were on the news when the handover occurred. The point is not if Nightow was considering that historic moment or if he happened to be watching Hong Kong films when he was working on these chapters. Instead, I wonder if readers, when they picked up these volumes from the bookshelves, had thought about Hong Kong, Hong Kong’s movies, and Hong Kong’s past and uncertain future, as they were skimming through the pages. But you know… this is 2023 me thinking about 23 years ago. All of this is daydreaming.

I bring up Hong Kong's history and cinema because I wanted to see what I can envision and interpret about Ryutsu and thus about No Man's Land. If Hong Kong via cinema brings imaginations of transnationalism then Ryutsu via Vol. 4 and 5 could do the same for No Man's Land.

There is no literal ocean to divide cities and there are no named countries. There is a broad ‘Federal Government’, so I assume that means the government concerns itself with all settlements in the entire planet. If Ryutsu itself is No Man’s Land’s ‘Hong Kong’ (which opens another discussion of the use and/or misuse of Hong Kong in media - some other time), then despite No Man’s Land being an incredible dystopia, the elimination of borders is, very plainly, very interesting. I am leaning to this being a good thing, considering that one major problem in No Man’s Land tends to be ‘Humans vs. X’ (plants, worms, the planet’s environment etc.). Also, No Man’s Land is already very sparse. No spoilers for later volumes but I am curious about the planet’s future if the population demographic changes.

Panel from Vol. 4 Ch. 4. Western and Eastern hats in the same panel.

There are also thoughts about its class struggles. Vash says in Vol. 4 Ch. 4: "There are too many people here. I don't like it. The lower and upper class all cramped together." ... which really made me think about the conditions the upper class were living in. Kowloon Walled City was known to be unhygienic, dark and cramped and the wealthy did not live there, so how rough was it to live in Ryutsu when a rich person might still need to live in the citadel? I didn't interpret Vash's statement to mean 'citadel plus those outside of it' when the high stakes in these volumes were because of the high density and maze-like streets.

Panels from Vol. 4 Ch. 6; Ch. 7; Ch. 7.

The above panels remind me of establishing shots in gritty crime thrillers than the sci-fi western I had been reading up to this point.

Featured is the Juukei Building - a building that looks pulled from the 20th century. It is tall, drawn sometimes in narrow panels to emphasize its height and to show how small the characters are in the claustrophobic space as they navigate towards it. As characters move through the structure once inside, it becomes more difficult to tell where in the building they are or if they are somewhere adjacent. Combining historical and futuristic designs in Trigun/Trimax isn't new, but it's not often you see 20th century structures. Maybe wealthier residents lived in buildings like this, though the interiors of Juukei look like abandoned offices.

Panel from Vol. 5 Ch. 3.

Or maybe this was meant to be a mixed-use building? But it seems the entire building is abandoned anyway.... So I'm not sure where the upper class is supposed to live or how I should imagine the upper class to be.

Panel from Vol 5. Ch 6.

... After the end of the battle, once morning comes, we no longer see the citadel. The landscapes return to those reminiscent of American Southwestern deserts. Like we dipped into darkness then we returned to the light.

Anyone who knows about Kowloon Walled City would instantly recognise it in Trimax. The imitative Ryutsu Citadel could be read as a cool manga location where a massive shootout plus some serious revelations occur, but I personally am always interested in what else a location can do. It matters if you set a film in New York City versus a nameless location and how you visually convey that city because it can tell us about its people and helps us understand its characters. So to me, I thought it would be fun to look at certain locations in Trimax (with all of Nightow's free-form inconsistencies and confusions) and imagine or interpret what they can tell us about No Man's Land and by extension, the people in No Man's Land.

Other fun facts include: "[...] Japan, in particular, developed a keen interest towards Kowloon. Its demolition in 1993 was broadcast on national television."

#trigun maximum #trimax vol 4 #trimax vol 5 #trigunbookclub #kowloon walled city #hong kong #idle thoughts #this got out of control #also tumblr is a terrible platform for long-form rambling #absolute nightmare

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lifes-line · 15 days

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They're hiding lore in the merch line,,

Now this is a theory for a show I only just started watching and I'm not much of a advertisement person either - but I did notice something suspicious. So I have a few theories about the amazing digital circus like everyone in the circus worked on the game, jax is an npc, ragatha is going to die in the last three episodes, etc you get it- But the biggest thing is there is something off about all the character but more suspiciously Jax. Jax for some reason is labelled as "Deserves to be in the circus the most" whatever the hell that means - and his suspicious reaction to a funeral for Kaufmo.

And I didn't ponder on these series until the glitch digital circus song posted 13 minutes ago as of right now. Look at the pin collection at 2:25. It's everyone's rooms. We see Zooble colorful room with a box labelled "zoobles" probably for their exchangeable limbs, Ragatha has a toy bin in her room because her design is clearly meant to be Raggedy Anne, Gangle has a weird red master bedroom, and we even see Kinger's pillow fort - weird that he lives in that but whatever.

But Jax.

Jax is instead in front of his bedroom door and without a tag behind his name to proudly display it also like all the others, it's been ripped in half. In fact it his name looks like it's been knocked over. And the background depicting his bedroom door is actually torn and ripped like someone is tearing away at it.

The description of the pin on the website reads "Jax pin just lounging around watching funny things happen to people."

And while this could all mean nothing - as we saw in the pilot(where jax rips up the sign that says "SPARE" and in episode two where he is upset at the lack of disaster - Jax tends to lean more towards violence and destruction adventures/video games. But regardless - it's still a mystery as to what the inside of Jax's room looks like. The standing theory is he locks his door and while he has keys to everyone's room it's possible he has a key to his own room and just locks his door from the outside to keep people away. But that just further supplies the biggest question of all; "What is Jax hiding?" It's possible in the Jax episode we get to see what his room looks like - my theory is Jax's episode is actually the minimum wage 9 to 5 episode because it'd be funny.

Anyway I just find it weird - Jax seems to be the attention grabber of practically ever audience member, I don't know if there is an answer to why he does the things he does but we'll see with time. this is just a fun thing I personally noticed.

Edit: YouTube has been recommending me Jax as npc theories(i don't wanna be like "oh I came up with that theory first" because i dont really give a sh*t) but there has been multiple signs to Jax being an npc to discuss. For example in the pilot he is the first character to drop the fact that npcs exist in this game, he's the only character to put the idea of 'being here for years' into the circus members heads and Pomni's head too, he knows that Kinger supposedly has been here the longest, he has keys to everyone's room, he gets excited over digital food. Now a lot to unpack here but the biggest thing is how does Jax know how long they've been in the circus? Also tying into the question - how does Jax know how long Kinger 'supposedly' has been here?

In the second episode there isn't much clear of a sign he is an npc other than his suspicious reaction to Kaufmo's funeral, his ability to steal the key from Ragatha without being seen, AND CAINE ACTUALLY IMPLYING THERE'S AN NPC IN OUR MIDST. He heavily alludes to the fact that if he were to confuse a human with an NPC he doesn't know what that'll do to the programming of the world - much less how that'll change how things run in the circus. But if Jax were an NPC would Caine have not caught him as he entered through the portal? Unless Jax was from an adventure that took place within the circus - and we know very well that can happen according to "Capture the Gloinks" in episode one.

But also if Jax were an NPC why do the circus members not expose him and have him deleted? Well - according to Jax. Kinger has been here the longest - then in the second episode it was confirmed Ragatha has been here the second-longest. So really only those two could possibly know the truth. So that means Jax will never get turned in. Kinger is too far gone to even remember if Jax is a human or not and I doubt he'd care anyway. Ragatha as we see in episode 2 - likes the npcs. She even plays along with their LARPing and is excited to be friends with the candy princess. If she knows what Jax truly is - despite his constant pranks on her, she could be well aware he's just doing what he is programmed to do/be. A trickster and an obstacle and despite how crazy he's making her she's willing to roleplay along with an NPCs antics.

The pin idea - since his walls are ripped apart to show an image leaking into the void- as well implies that Jax isn't a real member of the circus and is instead a piece of AI carefully built from the void, something Caine openly admits to still be working on in the pilot episode.

A lot to think about - I would genuinely be surprised if we find out Jax isn't an NPC because this theory is just too convincing at this point.

#the amazing digital circus #tadc jax #jax

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thesixthcavalier · 7 months

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I want to rant for a bit here about some of the gameplay elements of Stray Gods that advance so much of the story and character choices that make this story so amazing. Others have probably noticed these things and put them in better words than I, but I've been listening and relistening to various versions of the soundtrack and have an obsession to feed, so here we are.

Much has already been made of the madly impressive fact that the songs are a complex and winding series of choices, where distinct instruments and styles are made to flow neatly from one choice to the next, and each choice you make can drastically change ones you get down the line. And for good reason, that is crazy and amazing and I love it. But what I want to talk about is the way the choices you have, and how they aren't as simple as you might first think, builds characters and relations throughout the game and enhances the story.

To start with, we all know you generally have three options, or flavors, to choose from: Red/Blue/Green. At the start of the game you choose on of these colors to be the sort of core personality of your version of Grace. Green is charismatic, friendly and well meaning, Red is tough and willing to be brash and bold, and Blue is clever and cunning. The nature of this matching of colors to personality is reinforced with several early choices in your interactions with Caliope, Hermes, and the Chorus.

But as the game continues, it quickly becomes apparent that these options get a lot more meat on their bones and that they are not as cut and dry as it might seem on first glance. Yes, Green tends to be more about being friendly while Red is more about a fighty Grace. But the key thing I think, and what really fascinates me, is that it goes deeper on each of these options in relation to who or what Grace is interacting with. Red choices are often confrontational and direct, but that doesn't mean antagonistic. There are several points throughout the game where Red options are definitely cutting through the bullshit or trying to start a fight, but there are also a lot of times where it's a direct and measured response from Grace to try and cut to the heart of an issue.

Blue meanwhile often presents plainly as the clever, thinky option. Again often very true, but I think it also represents the restrained and strategic option. Several blue options are about weighing what is going on, or Grace stepping back to take in her different paths. Green meanwhile has a lot to do with empathy. In my first playthrough I often found myself leaning towards Green options solely because they were instinctive, gut reactions on how to handle people going through something difficult, or to try and mellow out a situation.

All of this is to say, it is utterly fascinating how these choices interact in different scenes in ways that immediately lean into both the character you are choosing for Grace to be, and those she is interacting with. Take Medusa for example. The pure Red track of that fight is all but an actual fight. Grace is taking this in a very hero vs. monster direction and throughout is almost eager to get to actual blows, meanwhile Green leans much more into the angle of Medusa as a victim, a tool being poorly used by the woman who first wronged her anyway. And Blue is manipulative. It sees the paths before Grace and says "I don't need to fight this person, I can use her hurting to get what I want."

We see this even more clearly in Aphrodite's song, and in your first meeting with Persephone, but in different forms. In those songs, while Red is still extremely antagonistic, it takes on much different contexts. With Persephone, Grace is still spoiling for a fight, but a lot of it comes off as less heated. Yeah she is trying to rev up Persephone and cut her down, but it feels a lot more like a poetry slam or rap battle than lines preceding an all out brawl. Meanwhile with Aphrodite it's Grace trying to cut through flowery words and get to the heart of what she sees as the problem with this whole situation.

And to top all of this off, and not go on forever since this is already more than long enough, the way the latter half of the game has you choose another personality trait for Grace, the story not just telling you she has changed and grown but actively making it an element of the game by expanding your special option choices, is brilliant. It naturally, on a first playthrough, leads you into picking a secondary option that is most in line with the way you have been taking Grace as things unfold. If you started the game eager to fight but have since seen the story unfold and feel a calmer, more empathetic approach is warranted, you'll naturally pick that option because it feels appropriate, and same for any other combination. It not only opens up more gameplay, but entwines gameplay with story, and allows you as the player to feel the journey Grace has been on. As yet another link to classical epic poetry it is a slam dunk, and as a gameplay mechanic that reinforces your connection to the character, it's a double slam dunk.

#Stray Gods #roleplaying musical #gameplay #it's seriously excellent in so many ways #the way music art style and gameplay choices come together to make the story more impactful? Fire #No one will read this and that's fine #I just love this game so damn much and need to throw my thoughts to the wind

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baphdragula · 18 days

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Dolly Goode!

finally! I worked on a reference of sorts. (oh god cringe I'm so sorry)

SO what I can say off the bat is I am thrilled if you want to draw her, please do, and since I'm not terribly attached to her design, feel free to tweak it a little. A little bit about her

Demiromantic (She is just a little too preoccupied for that)

Doesn't eat (dolls don't usually- but that doesn't explain the tea...)

Skilled at Sewing! Loves Lace.

Favorite activity is Tea time (Tea parties are the best!)

Descends slowly into madness as she realizes escape is impossible from her plastic prison

Kind and polite, except when dealing with a certain someone- but we won't discuss that~

She used to be 'Dorothea'

Anyways, I made this too-

so here's everything We could find out-

she likes- obviously, purple! purple is wonderous, don't you think? Hot tea, and seEms to be a sewing hobbyist.

she dislikes- [Redacted]

we found somE parts, just arms, and A singular glass eye, so we had to refer to soMe old sketches and notes. we also found a lapel pin, it's a golden apple with a 'd'. we think It belonged to the character's merchandise line but we aren't sure. based on some old files, we believe this design originated from an old line of ball-jointed dolls Popularized by [redacted] company. perhaps some kind of marketing arrangement between them, but it was obviously short-Lived.[redacted] fElt it unSuitable for this charactEr to engage in relationships. dolly must never be depicted with Food. according to some Records found [redacted] wouldn't divulge thEir reasons but they wEre adamant. it seems she tends to lean More towards being friends with barnaby bEagle and eddie dear though she's friendly with everyone, just not with wally very often. It's so odd. a lot of These notes on Her design don't make sense. some of them are in latin, but those papers are so dirty and degraded we can't make out much of anything. really wish we could have been more help, all we can see here is 'malUm' over and oveR. That being said, we'll keep Searching for more.

I'm not gonna tag this because if anyone needs it, I can just link it. :) Thanks for looking anyways though!

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odiesbun · 1 year

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Can you do a ateez reaction to s.o leaning in for a kiss for the first time in the relationship cuz he tends to lean in first all the time

There may be errors in the text, as my native language is not English. Thank you for your likes and your request!

WARNINGS: fluff, stupid humor of the author, at some points rather offensive lines, a lot of kissing.

Number of characters in the text: 2886.

Requested: Yes

♡Hongjoong♡

Someone who will start bantering with you. He'll do it gently and with almost no offense, he has nothing against it, but you really won't turn away from his jokes.

- Oh, I'm so good, you can't even resist kissing me? - He smirks, playing with his eyebrows. You pretend to pout, looking away. Hongjoong chuckles softly, but still hugs you from behind.

♡Seonghwa♡

Since you initiated your first kiss, but he didn't make a big deal about it at first. Yes, he thought VERY MUCH about it, but eventually decided it was just an accident. However, as soon as you kiss again and that kiss is coming from your side again, Seonghwa freezes, uttering a strange question.

- Why do you always lean in during the kiss first? No, no, I have nothing against it, it's just... Why?

♡Yunho♡

It feels like Yunho really doesn't care who leans in first for a kiss. He's in love with you with all his heart, so even if you kiss him yourself the first time, he'll say absolutely nothing. But the second time, he will kiss you himself.

- Oh, darling, let me kiss you! - *Specifically watching to see if you'll lean in first*.

Yunho is a very cunning and clever boy, yes.

♡Yeosang♡

He'll be embarrassed at first when you bend over first, freezing for a while like Seonghwa, but he won't say anything. The next times he'll purposely do some kind of experiment on whether you lean in first and think it's very cute and innocent and all the words there are to the word "cute".

- No, I just think a lot of guys would resent something like that... - Out loud, he reasoned.

- What about you? - You smirk, watching Yeosang stop functioning for a moment.

- And I'm happy with that.

♡San♡

Probably the one whose pride falls below the plinth, but he won't say anything. Your subsequent kisses will start on his own, not allowing you to make even the slightest inclination in his direction. Sooner or later, however, he's going to ask that anyway.

- You know, during our first kiss, I noticed that you lean toward me first... That's nice. Yes, I think it's cute, it makes me feel good to see it!

♡Mingi♡

Mingi had his first relationship and first kiss. I have a feeling he watches a lot of romance movies, so he knows a lot about love and kissing. As soon as you lean in for a kiss first, he'll probably get embarrassed and deflect, making the situation even more bad and awkward.

- Wait! - he frowns, chuckling nervously. - I should be the one kissing you, not the other way around! You know what I mean?

♡Wooyoung♡

He'll pretend he has to. He will lean back faster than necessary, so from the outside it will look like you kissed at the same time. But you might accidentally "bump lips" because of the increasing speed of Wooyoung's head movement, ahahahaha, that would be too awkward, sorry.

- Why so fast? - You frown, covering your aching lips with your palm. Wooyoung chuckles, apologetically, but says nothing more so as not to spoil the situation even more.

♡Jongho♡

Jongho is a mix of Wooyoung and San, and will be indignant and resentful about it, but will pretend it was all planned.

- Ah, why did I stop? No, it's okay, it's okay! - Jongho chuckles nervously, but immediately turns away from you, biting his lips in indignation. Likely to be the one who gets a little groped about it...

#kpop #ateez reactions #ateez #odiesbun #kpop reactions #reactions #san #wooyoung #song mingi #mingi #yeosang #atz yunho #seonghwa #hongjoong #jeongho

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warrioreowynofrohan · 1 year

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Hi! I’m a relatively new follower and I just started going through your posts. I just wanted to say that I love your takes on Tolkien’s work. They sum everything up really nicely and you seem to really try to take both sides into consideration. I love the academic but down to earth feel of your writing, and I always learn something new whenever I read! I don’t know if you’re accepting requests, but I saw your amazing “Feanorian Counternarratives,” and I was wondering if you have any ideas about Caranthir? If you are not accepting requests, are too busy with your polls, or simply don’t feel like answering, I completely understand. I just wanted you to know that I really like your work! Have a nice day ❤️ - @arinele

Oh my goodness, thank you so much! That’s very kind! 💕 I’ve loved seeing your tags!

I do have some thoughts on Caranthir, though, fair warning, they’re not especially complimentary. They’re pretty headcanon-heavy, since we only get tidbits on him.

Character Thoughts - Caranthir

From what we see of Caranthir, the thing that stands out to me most is his disdainful behaviour towards anyone who isn’t (entirely) Noldor. It comes out in practically every instance we see of him in The Silmarillion. I wouldn’t guess that this is unique to Caranthir among the Fëanoreans (we get similar cultural chauvinism from Fëanor in his “in huts on the beaches you would be dwelling still” line to Olwë, and all the sons of Fëanor are described as “haughty and fell”), but he seems to have a more than usual lack of tact about it; he’s described as “the harshest and most quick to anger” among the sons of Fëanor

First there’s his words to Angrod (“Let not the sons of Finarfin run hither and thither with their tales to this Dark Elf in his caves!…let them not so swiftly forget that their father is a lord of the Noldor, though their mother be of other kin”….wow, on top of everything else, way to remind them that you murdered their mother’s people). It’s telling that this is in no way a small incident - it’s the moment that prompts Maedhros moving the Fëanoreans to East Beleriand, and the memory and resentment of it is what prompts Angrod to spill the beans to Thingol about the Kinslaying. Caranthir can do a lot of damage with a few words!

His lack of tact towards the dwarves doesn’t have similar impact - because of pragmatism on both sides and also, I expect, because, though the dwarves are proud, they aren’t especially vain, and being insulted for their looks bothers them a lot less than many other things would.

His interactions with Haleth and the Haladin are interesting. At first his people “pay little heed to them,” which is a marked contrast not only to Finrod’s instant befriending of the Edain, but to Fingolfin’s rapid endeavours to build relations and an alliance. After he rescues the Haladin from the Orcs he “sees, over late, what valour there was in the Edain”, and invites them to live further north in his land. The Haladin are currently in the southern woods of Thargelion. Now, this can be taken either of two ways. Option one, he’s inviting them to live closer to the main settlement of his people, near Lake Helevorn, for more effective mutual defence. Option two, he’s inviting them to live closer to the front lines because he’s seen that they’re good warriors and he wants them between Angband and the bulk of his people. I tend to lean towards the latter; Haleth’s choices certainly indicate she mistrusts him.

And if we do go with the latter, it creates some very interesting headcanons for me in the latter part of the story, where we see less of Caranthir individually. If Caranthir is (“over late”) seeing the military value of the Edain and trying to recruit them, and he failed, then he could be expected to particularly resent that the Haladin end up settling next to Thingol (who doesn’t even like them!) and agreeing to protect his borders, and resent Finrod for negotiating it. This would give him a reason to largely have fellow-feeling with Celegorm and Curufin after the events of Leithian, and accept whatever account they gave of their dealings with Nargothrond and Doriath and their grievances.

Even more, this also adds extra, painful irony to the Nirnaeth, when Caranthir again attempts to make an alliance with Men and it goes terribly wrong. It does stand out that the men who ally with Caranthir turn traitor while those who ally with Maedhros stay loyal - Caranthir has a record of alienating people whether he’s trying to or not, he lacks tact, and it’s not hard to see him saying some things that suggest that the Easterlings are being recruited as cannon fodder. It is, at any rate, my headcanon that Caranthir’s personality has a not-inconsiderable role in why it is the Easterlings aligned with him who change sides. And I like the way it bookends the first real appearance of Caranthir as an individual character, when his words throw a rock into both intra-Noldor and Noldor-Sindar relations.

The combination of bitterness in general around Uldor’s betrayal, bitterness about Doriath due to the aforementioned, and combined bitterness about Doriathrin non-participation in the Nirnaeth, all in addition to the matter of the Silmaril, would give him plenty of reason to be favourable towards the Second Kinslaying.

#asks #tolkien #the silmarillion #caranthir #sons of fëanor

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kiwibirdlafayette · 11 months

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I’ve keep thinking about one of your tags, specifically the “self fulfilling prophecy a display of a true role of an ianitee” and I would love for you to go into that!

if I may, I’d like to give my understanding of that and you can tell me how far off base it is.

With Redbeard it’s him thinking something will always go wrong around him whether he causes it or not. He chalks it up to his “natural unluckiness” and puts little effort to fox said issues. If we go to Capsize’s death, she gets threatened and he stands and does little to stop it. He crashes the first airship and brushes it off, he actively heavily drinks during the mission, like he for some of it causes his own misfortune.

For Jordan, it’s being alone within his faith. (This one I’m a bit shakey on cause I don’t think I have a good footing when it comes to his character.) He wants community but he does not find it with the pirates. Specifically with Capsize. Back to Capsizes death, he also doesn’t jump in to stop Furia from killing Capsize. Both Andor and Capsize end up getting imprisoned in-front of the group, although the reason why is different (to my memory) he doesn’t jump in to save either. He does find community with Andor though! But he’s now separated from him, so once again he’s alone.

Idk what Spark or Capsizes problem is, wish I did though. They probably have tons.

OH ok im sorry Im so late in responding Im gonna be honest. I completely forgot initially what I was thinking about when I made that tag but its finally come back to me ok. ok.

Basically what I think I was referring to in the concept of a 'self fufilling propechy; filling the role of an ianitee" is the kind of idea that champions of Ianite, or gods in general are tied to their deity in not just a follower kind of way, but like in a metaphysical manner- like where the principle of whomever they end up following are somewhat built into their characterization, and in the way worked into the fibers of their soul. Its present with the other gods/followers but its really interesting with the ianitees I think.

It may not necessarily be intentional or conscious on the part of the follower but essentially their morals, actions and the foundations of relationships are centered around what aspects the god stands for, and sort of act like a compass for them. So like in Capsize's case, I had interpreted Cat's post as like even though Capsize was born the "luckier" of the twins- aside from her name being that of a literal disaster- a lot of her actions to me take on a very heavy kine selflessness, putting herself at risk for like Red, doing things that would put her in a place of misfortune almost as a protective maneuver for others which I could almost call to be her fatal flaw. She has to be balanced in nature somehow to counter feeling like she's stolen Red's luck (from Cat's post, that line is driving me nuts in the best way), and that's how she does it.

And like, what you were saying with Jordan, his seeking of balance comes in surface level playing mediator between Tom and Tucker but like in a subconscious way (at least how i interpret it haha) its more got to do with yeah, like community. Jordan, as a character to me is very tied to the idea of home/closeness/familiarity, which ties into the lighthouse metaphor I like to cite between him and Tom (essay for another day before I go on yet another tangent), and his evolving relationship with the others over the course of the series. He, by nature is really drawn to carving his own path (i mean the man fully invents his own ass god) and has like an ambition that tends to isolate him from others (I haven't forgotten jokes in other SMPs about his house always being so far away from everyone else) but what he really craves, in needing to adhere to some kind of balance is closeness, a safe familiar place to rest his head, a lack of separation that he always ends up wanting to fully lean towards, but because of this balance thing- he can't have all of one or the other.

Spark I think follows a similar pattern to Jordan, and as a result as do Andor and Martha (albeit in different ways I'll try to speak on but I don't spend much time with their characters aside from the fact that especially in Ruxomar where Ianitees are kind of othered (cough queer metaphor, this is not an original thought but it makes so much sense) that to counter this oppression of their beliefs they too seek out community which is why Andor and Jordan get on so well.

Because Spark grew up with something different and we don't get much canoncially of him, its a little harder to analyze him, but if I had to give it a guess, I think his is moreso like he falls between two worlds in being the s/o of a literal goddess, that he feels an obligation to act as a mediator (as Jordan is), but rather between his two brothers-in-law, but instead between that of the immortal and mortal worlds, where like Capsize carries with him a protective nature to make them feel more in alignment. Essentially, in someway or another, giving agency and power to the mortal world and making the immortal world feel less distant and understandable/attuned to those who they rule. But its less a burden he chooses to carry, like a i must take control to bring this balance, and more a internal kind of responsibility to maintain his connections between both worlds, to keep himself together.

And Red, gods Red m8, I haven't dug too deep into him but I really like your take on him! Someone who I think is a really good example of how his unluckiness, rather than being something that unconsciously he wants to correct to find an internalized balance, instead has found a certain apathy to the notion that he was supposed to be the unlucky side of the twins, that i could almost say mans like found a neutral ground that way; sitting on a middle ground of having neither fortunate nor an unfortunate influence on the way things happen because either way he feels he'll only worsen it which. idk about you but Ouch That Hurts. Like he wants to strive for finding balance in having some type of influence of fortune, but its so out of reach he chooses instead to take a role of inaction

GAHHH theres so much brainrot that can come from this. I will be thinking about this forever. i hope i didnt fully just do the horribly misinterprets the characters LMAO any way. thank you for this

It eez what it eez TLDR; Ianitees come into the realm with an almost pre-determined alignment long before they consciously are aware of the goddess, a kind of self-fulflling that drives a lot of their emotional-moral compass in seeking a balance within them that gives them a role and purpose in the fabric of their characterization and relationships with others

#i once again am writing at like midnight bc thats when my brain seems to be able to think the most analytically i hope this makes sense LMAO #team ianite #mianite #character analysis #lafakiwi writes #mianite headcanon #its a lot also im sorry #i like. went on a lot of tangents as per usual #captain capsize #jordan captainsparklez #spark conway #i am not the andor man unfortunately and id feel bad trying to elaborate on the really cool brainrot ive seen from like chase and fern :'D #i think its along a similar thought pattern but i could be very wrong and i apologize for that #martha. man i dont know enough about her at all #idk feel free to add on! this is really just a massive braindump #asks #licantropa

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vessel-full-of-stories · 2 years

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By now, I've specified several things regarding characters' major love languages. I know this is late but quick disclaimer: I am not an expert in this by any means. To me, some scenes fall under two or more languages depending on how you view them. But when I see a certain character favoring one language over another, I'm gonna assume they're working with what they're familiar with. Or, at least, what I perceive them as familiar with.

And, side note: Just because I don't assign a certain love language to a character, that doesn't mean they don't occasionally use it to communicate affection towards others. It just means its not one of the more common ways they do it. That they tend to favor another form of love to communicate that.

This post is going to focus on Buck and Eddie, and the love languages they use towards each other.

(This gets long so I'ma put a break in to spare the people who just want to scroll past this.)

Quick review of what I've already covered.

Buck has a complicated relationship with physicality. He tends to not touch others without their consent unless it's in life saving situations. Basically, if there's not a physical reason for him to grab them, he won't. Unless they ask.

This doesn't mean he dislikes being close to people. He loves affection. The lack of closeness he got growing up probably influenced the way he leans in to the people he loves, now, at least while talking to them. All those shoulder bumps? That's Buck leaning in when he talks to Eddie as they walk. And it's not exactly grabbing him, so this might be the fine line Buck draws on letting himself be physically close others.

Eddie, on the other hand, uses physicality freely. He initiates all three of their hugs and Buck clearly enjoys them. He gives a little tap to say 'don't be a creep,' when they catch him staring at Marjan in the Lone Star crossover.

In 4x01, Buck clearly attaches his own harness before going down. No issues. But, when the bus explodes, you can hear Eddie scream Buck's name after he doesn't respond to his initial question. Then, with no explanation, the very next episode (4x02) Eddie clips Buck's harness for him. I'm gonna assume it's because the last call with a harness scared him and he's taking comfort in physically clipping Buck in himself. And Buck lets him.

Another example of him taking comfort from Buck is in 5x01 when they're called to help a man having a heart attack. Yes, one could assume touching his shoulder is just Eddie alerting Buck to his movement so he doesn't bump into him by accident. However, I feel like the writers are so deliberate with character dialogues and choices that they wouldn't purposefully drag focus away from Eddie's inner dialogue for nothing. And he's definitely having an inner dialogue here.

There's a number of things the unconscious man could have triggered in Eddie's mind, but the point is, we know he's been triggered. And he's working through it. When he notices another man experiencing a panic attack, there's a distinct way he touches Buck, a constant contact as he moves around him. It's different from the quick taps the team sometimes give each other to say 'Ok, let's go,' 'Look,' or 'This way.' I think Eddie's hand lingers because the touch comforts him. And we also know he's not just trying to alert Buck to follow him because, if he was, Buck would have followed. He doesn't, Hen does. This touch was just for him.

So, we know Buck enjoys physical affection, and touch can be used for both affection and comfort to Eddie. But what about comforting Buck? Physical comfort doesn't really work on him. So how does Eddie comfort Buck back? He actually figures it out over time.

Let's begin at that iconic first meeting.

Analyzing their first episode through the lens of their love languages, it truly makes sense where things went wrong with their first impressions and how they eventually steered it right.

Buck finds purpose and joy in being a firefighter. He's able to serve both the people of his community and the 118 - his family - through it. He spent most of season 1 securing his space and working with his beloved team, so it's a surprise when Bobby suddenly adds an additional member to their unit.

Right off the back, Buck isn't just listening to his team compare their physical appearances (due to the firefighter calendar competition), but Bobby goes on to talk about Eddie's qualifications and how he fought for him to join the 118. A right Buck almost lost permanently in the pilot of the show because of his own immaturity. To Buck, his entire team is gravitating towards Eddie because he's not like him. He's better. Considering Buck's abandonment issues and lack of therapy at this point, it's obvious why he gets mad. Just look at how straight he's sitting in his seat. He's pressing himself as far away from Eddie as he can.

What doesn't help is that this idea is actually enforced (in Buck's mind) throughout their shift. Buck moves in to save a patient, following Bobby's orders and the protocol he was taught, but Eddie cuts in with his own field experience, telling them there's a more effective way to do it. Bobby agrees and lets Eddie take over, Buck having to literally, physically hand his job over to him.

And it's not just his job being taken, but the love of his family. Buck had to build his relationship with the team over time. He was the naive punk who they warmed up to slowly. But Eddie? He charms them almost immediately. Not only does Eddie correct Buck on proper lighting to get a good photo (one-upping Buck in his love of fact giving), but Chimney seeks Eddie's skills to get a photo shoot done for himself. Right in front of him. Now, Buck's been stewing in his anger all day so of course he says something rude. Not that Chim doesn't forgive him, but Buck is definitely falling into a pit of self sabotage here.

Eddie, on the other hand, is doing everything he can to just fit into the 118. To prove his capability and be a part of a team again. Something he hasn't had since he was in the army, especially after Shannon left and he was more isolated than ever. He doesn't get angry and attack Buck for constantly making things difficult. He's friendly and patient. But he's also petty *affectionate*. So, after his reassurance that he's not a threat, that he and Buck are on the same side, doing the same job, he does throw in that comment of "I've just done it with people shooting at me is all." (I love him.)

And it's completely valid because, to Eddie, Buck seems to be all ego. That Buck is trying to place himself above Eddie because he thinks he's better, not because he's afraid of losing the life he's built. Unsurprisingly, it was more of the same after that. So much so that on the next call, Eddie drops the niceties and asks "What are we measuring here, Buck?" Because he doesn't get it. He doesn't know Buck. And Buck doesn't know Eddie.

Everything changes once Eddie realizes the grenade in the man's leg isn't a practice round, it's live.

Eddie starts to understand Buck's ego isn't what he thought it was by the way he responds to the news. Unlike that first call where they argued over methods of approach, Buck knows he's not the expert here. He has no idea what he's dealing with and listens to everything Eddie says, even asking questions for clarification.

Buck realizes Eddie isn't what he thought he was when he offers to remove the grenade himself, regardless of the risk. Because there is absolutely a risk. This wasn't a job for firefighters or even the bomb squad. They couldn't defuse a grenade. They would have to wait for the military to show up which would take longer than that man had to live. So, Eddie volunteers to do it.

And Buck, who is committed to acts of service, relates to this. He sees that, oh, we are here to do the same thing. Help people. There's not an ounce of malice in the way he says, "I'm in." He's 100% dedicated to helping the man. By the time they're ready to start, they're finally seeing each other for who the other is.

Buck can marvel at Eddie's capabilities and when Buck fumbles with the grenade for a moment, Eddie can recognize his bashfulness at his mistake. They're so impressed with each other, and Eddie is the first to admit it.

And that's where Eddie's other love language, words of affirmation, actually comes into play.

From my understanding, words of affirmation are showing affection or comfort to others by saying personal things that they know will have impact. Verbalizing specific details known about them and communicating in a way that shows they're actively listening.

And, because eye contact is absolutely a form a non-verbal communication, I'm going to include it in this category.

Honestly, the whole show does a great job of pushing meaningful communication and therapy. Every single main character has had their moments to give and receive words of wisdom, comfort, love, frustration, and everything in between. It's embedded into the foundation of the story itself.

So, if everyone uses words to impact others on multiple occasions throughout the seasons, how do I know it's one of their specific love languages? Well, I'd have to sit down and analyze every character in order to know for sure. (Even then, I am a novice.)

In my analysis, words of affirmation are not only a key component for Buck to understand someone's love, but (coincidentally) another major love language for Eddie. And, like physical affection, Eddie truly got to utilize it after getting away from his shitty parents.

I could get into specifics but I'm gonna keep this brief because there's so much else to say. When rehashing many of Eddie's failed acts of service for his family when he was young, he goes on to point out how Ramon verbally tore into him after every incident. When he receives his purple heart, it's not just Eddie's trauma that hollows Ramon's praise. And don't get me started on his f***ing mother. The way she uses the word "hero" against him and tries breaking down any shred of self confidence he has just to keep his child? I can't. Ramon isn't the only one Eddie needed to tell off at the retirement party. Still, I'm grateful for what we got because Eddie got to tell Ramon to his face, "I spent my whole life trying not to be like you." And he wasn't just talking about not looking weak.

Eddie is constantly, verbally telling Chris how much he loves him and he does it while holding him (physical affection) or facing him head on. It's an added emphasis to make sure his love is being conveyed, no matter how he is saying it. And he says it a million different ways.

He assures Chris he's always just a phone call away, that he's safe, that they still have each other. That he misses him and will be home soon. He validates his feelings in tough situations. He tells him how handsome he is when he isn't feeling confident in a suit. He calls him nicknames like kid, buddy, little man, my little Superman, and even Gordon Ramsey when he's making a salad. He doesn't like it when he talks down on himself and corrects him when he wrongly takes blame, like when he heard Eddie and his parents yelling. And he especially struggles when it comes to communicating Chris' limitations with CP. But he finds a way, because, again, he knows first-hand how powerful words can be.

So, Eddie's blend of physicality and words can be shown easily through Christopher. Now, let's look at Buck.

Obviously, there's no examples of Eddie holding Buck as he tells him something important. (Yet. Please?) The closest thing we get are their hugs and those are fairly brief.

He does test physical comfort in the beginning with a simple pat on the back, no words and no eye contact. It could have been Buck's immediate quote of "That's love," that gave Eddie the hint touch doesn't work, words do. Because he doesn't really attempt physical comfort after that.

Not that words always work, of course. Because Buck needs a special kind of assurance to calm him down. He needs words based in facts, or at least strong ideas that can compete with the ones dominating his mind.

The difference between that first confrontation in the gym and their talk after the grenade incident? Eddie's words. His first attempt generalizes everything as 'I am not a threat. We are on the same team.' But Buck absolutely sees him as a threat because he's a potential replacement for him on that team. He tries bringing up Abby to explain off some of his tension, which, yeah, wrong move. Then his jab about being under gunfire only sticks with him as he immediately goes into comparing war zones the second they're alone.

After they save the day, Eddie looks him dead in the eye and compliments his ability to stay calm under pressure. Something personal, a fact just witnessed in the ambulance. He goes on to request his service on future calls, saying "You can have my back any day." Which. Double love language right there. Even the eye contact is different and you could tell how genuine he was being with his words. So, teasing Eddie with, "Or you can have mine," and actually making him laugh? It's no wonder they work in perfect sync by the next call. It's like their feud never happened.

Later, Maddie's been kidnapped and Eddie tries comforting him after he's been chewed out by Athena. He assures him he understands his actions because he has sisters, too. That Doug would have found her regardless if Buck had convinced her to stay in LA or not. Excellent points, but the fact that Maddie is still with Doug at that moment eclipses all of that. No comfort.

After his embolism, nothing Eddie says matters because Buck still lost his purpose. There's little eye contact with Buck hiding under the blankets, distancing himself away from Eddie and his words, and just avoiding them completely when Eddie hits him with, "[Chris] never feels sorry for himself." But at least that last comment get's him thinking.

After the tsunami, Buck is convinced his failure overshadows everything. And I love the way Eddie focuses Buck's gaze to him or Christopher, the boy he saved. As if to say, 'Look, we're both still here.' When Buck turns away, he moves to catch his eyes as soon as they turn back. Because he wants Buck to see how much he means what he's going to say. Instead of telling Buck he didn't fail (which he never would have believed) Eddie admits to his own failures and pushes two major truths onto him. One, that Buck loves Chris enough to never stop trying. And two, (He grabs his shoulder to really keep his attention here.) "There's nobody in this world I trust with my son more than you." Oh, and before he goes, "Thank you for not giving up." Drawing value and appreciation to even his unsuccessful acts. And, wow, that works.

Eddie implements direct eye contact into moments of comfort after this, but he still goes on a bit of a losing streak starting with Red.

Buck is scared his team will drift apart like Red's did. While everyone else keeps repeating that there isn't anything to worry about, Eddie tries bringing up some evidence to prove it. Which backfires when Hen and Chim reveal they don't actually keep in contact with their old teammates. Eddie's left to simply say, "That won't happen to us." Which brings Buck little comfort.

There was the Abby incident where he was at such a loss for words he almost resorted back to physical comfort, ending on a simple "You ok?" Because, seriously, there's so much baggage there and they have more jobs to do. What else was he supposed to say?

The Buckley parents arrive and dropkick Buck into emotional hell. As much as Eddie tries to convince him he has every right to be mad, to have said what he said, that him being unable to save Daniel with his "defective parts" wasn't on him, Buck doesn't believe it because his parents' wouldn't. Then, Eddie finally shifts away from his parents and focuses solely on Buck. In one beautiful moment of "I had to do it."/"I know you did," he's finally back with a win. And he keeps winning.

The emotional agony he knows Buck endured saving his life and waiting for him to wake up? Assure him he's ok with a casual greeting. Just look at that smile. Buck thinks he's expendable and can easily be removed from their lives? Sike. He's been in his will for over a year. And just to prove how much he loves knows him, he knew Buck would never turn it down. For an added touch, he calls him by his first name to emphasize his value goes beyond the Buck they got to know, but the Evan that felt worthless before him.

My god, does Eddie love him. Understand him like no other character on the show. He's able to pinpoint exactly what Buck needs to hear and says it without hesitation.

Buck is the guy who likes to fix things. He's not allowed to just walk away from their family, he's stuck with them. Someone's invalidating his feelings again? He's gonna defend him, but also say it in the form of a joke to make him smile. He's twisting his previous comment into something self-depreciating? Absolutely not. Because being the guy who likes to fix everything comes in handy when he needs help fixing his wall. Thank you for your service.

Of course, Buck loves Eddie just as much. He just shows it differently.

His major love language, acts of service, is found in abundance throughout the show, so let's focus on what he's done for Eddie.

After assuring Eddie multiple times that Christopher is safe after the earthquake and alerting him the second phone services are back, he drives Eddie straight to him so they can be reunited.

For whatever reason, Buck continues this trend and goes with Eddie when his abuela broke her hip. Considering he drove him to Chris' school, drove them around in the episode "Treasure Hunt", and drove him while Eddie stayed on the phone with Charlie in "Suspicion," I'm going to assume Buck is just the one who drives. Plain and simple.

When Eddie has nowhere else to take Chris, Buck gives Bobby a heads up to the situation so that it's all cleared by the time he joins them in the loft. After discussing Eddie's situation with Pepa and Maddie, he introduces Eddie to Carla who helps guide him through the system to get Christopher what he needs.

A small moment I personally appreciate happens on the call where Shannon is struck by a car. Buck and Eddie are so focused on helping the driver, they don't even consider any pedestrians until the driver brings up the woman she hit. And Buck sees her before Eddie does. The shock and pain on his face is because he knows how much this will blindside Eddie. And they can read each other like a book, so Eddie catches on immediately. By then, it's too late. He sees her. Buck doesn't grab him, but he does try to stop him. He gets in front of him and asks him to wait, to take a second to process. But Eddie can't wait, so Buck lets him go.

There's the Christmas party he plans with Athena so Chris and Eddie could be together. (Everyone else, too, but the Diaz boys' sad eyes were definitely key motivators.) They build a skateboard together after he comforts Eddie by not only appealing to his love of baseball but the success of a baseball player with a disability. And, of course, there's the night he's more than ready to dig Eddie out of 30ft of wet earth by hand.

Buck's willing to split a massive fortune with him because he was a little sad they couldn't team up. The entire sniper arc, he's dedicated to helping Eddie, Chris, and his team at any cost, especially at his own life.

He's shown to be willing to physically defend Eddie, to care for Chris while Eddie takes care of himself mentally, to help put the broken pieces of the his life and his wall back together.

And Buck does comfort Eddie verbally, too. I actually pointed out a few above.

Buck comforts himself, his family, and strangers on calls using facts. It's not as prominent or effective as his acts of service. Even his direct eye contact is more used to gauge whether the act is effective or not. Instead, his words are more often a foreshadow or accompaniment to the act itself. But it's still a notable feature of his.

One example got a lot of people confused when it aired. In 5x08, Eddie is distressed at the thought that a little boy and his baby sister were lost to a hospital fire. He asks, "What are we supposed to do with that?" to which Buck say, "We put it away and we save the next one." Some people found this insensitive, harsh, or even uncharacteristic. But, truthfully, it's not. Because what facts are there to comfort him in this case? That they've saved plenty of other lives today? That a fire this big was statistically bound to have casualties? That it's somehow ok that this happened and he shouldn't be sad? There is nothing based in fact that can make this situation better, so Buck steers his mind towards the next one. That is all he can do at this point.

When he truly doesn't have the right words to say, he actually stays silent. This is alluded to in Eddie's confession after his breakdown and his admission that he's unsure if anything they do is even worth it. Both scenes cut before Buck responds, because whatever comes next doesn't progress the story. He hasn't found the right fact yet. And if he doesn't have one, he finds one. He finds Charlie and shows Eddie exactly how much can be done with a second chance.

Another cute example of Buck comforting Eddie is when Eddie's packing for Texas. The domesticity of Buck playing with a dinosaur as they chat. Ugh. Anyways, Eddie's stressing about time and Buck tries to comfort him with, "Your parents will understand." They both realize the error in that statement and he corrects with a, "They should understand." And when Eddie tries to argue his family isn't screwed up? Buck's smile, omfg. It speaks for itself. He also makes sure to brace Eddie for when his dad inevitably get's under his skin, and Eddie tells him he already has a hotel in mind for them to stay if it really comes to that.

Like I said, Buck's words and actions are linked. No other moments demonstrate this quite like when Buck is being ignored. Because how can he gather information to help someone if they won't tell him what's wrong?

The bruises, the tiredness, the anger. The cardiologist, the deflecting, the panic. Asking for honesty and being told to move on. Buck knows when something is wrong. He knows Eddie. And it's not until his breakdown that he gives Buck exactly what he's been asking for.

I actually kinda love the unfiltered honesty we get from Eddie after this. He tells Buck his worst fears, how crappy he feels, how he's worried it might not get better. How he doesn't know whether to believe in their work anymore.

It's an honesty he mainly shares with Buck, considering how he bit his tongue for most of his father's retirement party and then couldn't admit to FOMO with May. He's completely vulnerable for vulnerabilities sake. He's not asking for Buck's help, Buck just does that anyways.

To end on a happy note, I want to bring up the funnest part of their dynamic. Where the two of them meet on equal ground within words of affirmation: teasing.

I explained that words of affirmation includes picking out personal details to sort of showcase how well they know each other. And Eddie and Buck do it flawlessly all while teasing each other, others, and themselves to no end.

It could be pointing out that Buck doesn't know math, that Eddie can't (couldn't) cook, that they were both going through a phase, or just making faces as the other one's ridiculousness. That Eddie loves telenovelas, that it's actually an exoskeleton, Buck, or their dating life is full of weak excuses and invisible girlfriends.

What really pushes that this is Eddie's love language is the way he finds a way to tease Buck as he's comforting him. Especially when he finds the situation absurd.

The whole lawsuit arc? Fake glares him down with a pointed finger and says "Just don't do it again." (Humor that actually switches the hug from comforting to affectionate.)

Maddie's worried about him after a disastrous dinner with his parents? "Can't imagine why," as he proceeds to walk away from Buck nearly kicking over a punching bag.

That near-fatal rescue in Buck Begins? "Showoff."

Chim might never forgive him? Not a chance. "I'm kidding!... Maybe."

Buck removing himself from the team after he finds Ravi is ready to replace him. "Who replaces me?"

And, yes, he knows how to call himself out, too. Especially because Buck is probably the only one who would get the joke. Bobby calling Buck out on his rocky relationship and not knowing what to do when things go wrong? "Yeah, who does that?" (That little look they share after he says it? I love them.)

He incorporates humor into these stressful situations and majority of the time, it does make Buck smile. The fact that his smile is such a goal for Eddie in these moments says so much.

They love each other effortlessly yet purposefully and teasing is such a joyous highlight to show it. I can't wait to see how their relationship evolves from here.

#911 fox #911fox #911 on fox #buddie #911 buddie #evan buck buckley #eddie diaz #christopher diaz #buddie edit #911 meta #911 analysis #911 FOX #911 ON FOX #love languages #physical affection #words of affirmation #acts of service #when I tell you I had to throw hands with my brain to stop trying to add more #I'ma need a break after this one. maybe come back with a few micro posts. but definitely nothing this extensive again for awhile hahaha #also I know a few of the panels within my collages are out of chronological order but I deleted my screenshots before I could fix them #not that they're all in chronological order #more like thought process and clumps #i hope you like it #sorry if there's typos im just tired hahah #i had to repost this and put everything back together. i hope everything is still in order.#hopefully nothing got deleted

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misc-obeyme · 20 days

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Hiiiiii, yandere veteran here! :'DD

I saw your post about yandere and stuff, so i thought i could explain a few things! Firstly, there are different types of yandere out there! Clingy submissive type, sadistic yandere, the subtle manipulator yandere, possessive, obsessive, Yangire, Yeredere, Delusional, Intelligenct, quiet etc.

You can even combine two archetypes together, for example, Tsunyandere (Tsundere + Yandere) and kuuyandere (Kuudere + Yandere). There's even a slight difference between female and male yandere! Male tend to be more violent and possessive meanwhile Female yandere tend to be more passionate and submissive.

Generally speaking, the term "Yandere" associate with someone who is so into you and possessive that they would go to great lengths to monopolize you. Yanderes start sweet and overly affectionate, and then they get possessive and possibly violent. A classical yandere goes after the people surrounding their target first and tries to separate the love interest/target from everyone else. If that means locking them in a cage, so be it. Doesn't necessarily have to be bloody and/or gore. Again, it depends on the yandere type!

This is gonna be a little personal, but for me, I like yanderes a lot because I like the idea of someone loving me so much they'd do anything for me. I fell in love with the idea that someone loves you so much, they're willing to do insane, socially unacceptable things for your love. Of course, this doesn't supply to real life.

Anyway, moving on to Belphegor, i would say he's more of a "mild yandere" and possibly leaning more towards the "Nonviolent/Manipulative yandere" those types of yandere never bring direct harm to someone, and never will directly kill someone themselves, but will manipulate others to achieve their goals. It's the psychological and emotional manipulation that makes it so interesting. And seeing how much of a brat he can be, i would say that fits him the best.

Fun fact: There's an old devilgram story, i forgot the name, where belphegor poisoned Satan bc he was flirting with mc, lol.

Moving on to Barbatos, the reason fans suspect him to be a yandere is bc of his character song "Crazy About you," in which he sings the following lines:

"My heart in turmoil

Having you with me makes me want you

I’m crazy about you

I, too, cannot stop this billowing feeling

I wish to please you always

Please leave everything to me

But your poor manner will not be tolerated

Not matter how many times

Let me give you a lecture in calm

I will not hand you to anyone else, oh

I can’t take this

My feelings for you

I’ll make you mine"

"Crazy About you" does give off some yandere vibes, but does that make Barbatos a yandere? I don't think so. Considering all the characters had their "yandere" moments doesn't make them Yandere per say. But Barbatos does seem to be possessive in his song about Mc. Honestly, considering that his sin is greed, that makes quite a lot of sense. If i had to categorise him to a Yandere trope, then he would be the "Intelligenct/quiet yandere." Those types of yandere plan far in advance and fight more with their brains than with their brawn. It's almost similar to the "Manipulative yandere."

He could be absolutely terrifying, a yandere able to manipulate time and space? That's absolutely scary IF he was a yandere.

unironically, the closest thing to a yandere in Obey Me has is Mammon. He's shown that he constantly wants Mc to himself and seeking their attention, even getting in the way of his brothers and constantly reminding everyone that he's Mc first pact demon. In the beginning of the OG, obey me, he even said “I want to be the one who saves you, and if I can’t be, just die already" and remember that ONE NB lesson where he lost control over his Greed and wanted Mc to himself? Yeah, yandere moment definitely.

Anyway, what i'm trying to say is there are different types of yandere, and not everything has to be bloody. Sometimes, yanderes can be subtle with their motives.

Hello there, anon!

Okay see I had a feeling there was more to it than what my basic search of the term had indicated. I have seen some of the other -dere types because someone asked me about that and I had to look it up lol. But my knowledge of the different yandere types is pretty much nonexistent, so thank you for this explanation!

Okay, okay, so I wasn't taking Barb's song into consideration at all. The songs are all fun and there are certainly parts that are informative of character, but generally speaking I don't really think about them in terms of their characterization. (Not that it's bad to do that or anything, that's just a me quirk lol.)

That being said, I think any character can be written as a yandere if that's what the person writing the story wants to do. I would say most characters edge on some of those qualities, which really just boils down to them being a well rounded character.

Especially because Barbatos has this kind of vibe that's he's always holding something back. Not just truths about himself, but his own feelings, too. I think it'd be easy to say that he just doesn't allow himself to act in the way he really wants to.

And in that case, I think the concept of subtle yandere could apply to him. But again, this is all something that I think would need to be explored in fanfiction. I just don't think that in the story itself there's any indication of Barbatos having secret yandere motives. But I don't think it's a stretch to give him some in a fic by any means.

Interesting point about Mammon, though! I think his general tsundere personality probably overshadows those other yandere moments lol. I've never seen anyone refer to him as such, but it sounds like it fits to me! Then again, as I stated, my knowledge of these terms is very limited.

I like what you said about Belphie too - his whole thing is manipulation so that checks out to me!

Anyway, I like when characters have flaws and act jealous or possessive because it makes them feel more real to me. But that means it's only one aspect of who they are, so I don't tend to focus only on those traits when I write about them. But this is just a personal preference and I think that if you like yandere characters, it's perfectly reasonable to make your faves yandere even if they aren't in the source material.

Thank you for this thorough explanation, anon! I'm glad someone who knew more about it was able to add more insight and nuance to the discussion! It sounds to me like we're in agreement that Barbatos has some yandere moments, but in general is not a yandere.

#because you know there's only so much a google search can do #and like I've looked it up multiple times but I'm still new to the concept so #obey me #obey me nightbringer #obey me barbatos #anon asks #misc answers

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bombshellsandbluebells · 2 years

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So I’ve seen people saying that Steve’s dream of having 6 kids / a big family in s4 feels out of character or is character assassination, but I honestly feel like that detail is INCREDIBLY in character for him.

The thing with Steve is that for as fun as he, and as much charm as Joe adds to the role, the writing has never been all that concerned with exploring him much more beyond “asshole in high school, now reformed” / “part of a love triangle.”

But by not exploring certain things about Steve, they’ve basically crafted a story for him anyways. There’s a reason why the “Steve’s an only child with emotionally distant if not downright neglectful parents” headcanon is so strong in the fandom - because all the apparent proof for it is right there, just by the omission of his parents from the writing at all.

He’s is the only one of the OG kids/teens that we’ve never seen the parents of. He’s been majorly injured every single season, usually a lot more than any of the others, and yet we’re never shown or told about his parent’s reaction to that. Steve’s parents are never really mentioned beyond s1, in which the only things we learn about them are that they have such bad relationship problems that his mom feels the need to accompany his dad on trips and that his dad is, in Steve’s words, a major asshole. That’s basically it for the Harringtons. (We also get one quick line about Steve putting his mom as a reference in s3 because she’s “super well respected” in the community, but that doesn’t necessarily prove that Steve has a good relationship with his mom. It could! But it doesn’t contradict the idea that he doesn’t.)

We can conclude that, because Steve never interacts with or mentions his parents, he’s not close with them. And we can go further and assume that because his parents never seem to take notice of his many injuries, they don’t pay a lot of attention to their son. This feels especially true when compared to the way the other parents factor into the show - even the ones that aren’t as important to the story as Karen Wheeler at least have a sort of presence.

Now, I tend to lean towards “accidental character development” over intentional writing choice, but the fact of the matter is that this conclusion CAN be drawn from the text and there’s nothing really there to disprove it.

One big thing that IS intentionally written with Steve is his big brother relationship with the kids. He looks out for them. He stands up for them. He has a deeper relationship with them than either of the other og teens do and gets grouped into storylines with them while Nancy/Jonathan get separated to do their own thing. We get little details like him sneaking them into movies and getting a letter from Max. (Which makes the lack of follow through with his relationship with Max or even Dustin in vol 2 so disappointing to me)

And it’s really, really easy to draw some connections and theorize that the reason Steve latches onto the kids so easily and lets them become such a big presence in his life is BECAUSE he has a distant family.

So Steve sitting there talking about how his dream for the future is having a big family and a bunch of kiddos and driving around with them together to see the country, spending quality time with them DOES make sense. It fits in perfectly with the story they crafted for Steve. He’s an only kid with emotionally distant parents who wants a family, who likes kids, who falls naturally into a big brother / guardian role and dreams about being a father one day.

It makes perfect sense with him.

The only problem with it is that it’s framed as something he wants with Nancy because a) the idea of Nancy sharing that dream feels incredibly forced for her character and not well supported by what we’ve seen of her so far (career-driven, focused on making a name for herself in journalism, not all that concerned with spending time with the kids, barely has a close relationship with her own brother), and b) putting Stancy back together again and leading them to a pickett fence marriage and kids ending feels incredibly forced after spending so much time in the show having them grow apart and having Steve get over her.

So no, I don’t hate the Steve wants 6 kids idea. I don’t even think it feels out of character. I just don’t think it works as a way to further Stancy.

#steve harrington #stranger things meta #stranger things #stranger things spoilers #st4 spoilers

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childofaura · 9 months

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Any thoughts you have on Wendee Lee?

She did Veronica, Lyn, Sophia and the new voice for Emmeryn (replacing Erin Fitzgerald).

Outside of it, she’s Athena from Ace Attorney and Melony in Pokèmon Masters EX

So fun fact, a couple of hours ago I was LITERALLY 95% done typing the review to this ask... and then Tumblr deleted ALL of it after I switched from one tab to another on my phone.

This is partially why I usually try to answer these on my computer. ;w;

BUT ANYWAYS, let's see if I can't rebuild what I mostly typed up.

Ok so... I LIKE Wendee Lee. But when it comes to FEH, I have some issues with her work in FEH. 50% of it isn't her, honestly; it's being cast as characters who are pretty similar in energy, so I get that it's hard to differentiate. I like some of her work outside of FEH, I haven't been able to play it (RIP) but from the clips I've seen, I enjoyed her role as Trish from DMC 5.

I'll try to break it down a bit. Wendee Lee plays Veronica, Lyn, Maria, Sophia, and now plays Emmeryn.

So performance is... all right. But sometimes it feels like her line deliveries are repetitive. Especially her lines as Emmeryn, two of them start off as "I am" and I swore I thought they were the same line until the rest of the audio played out. But Veronica, Sofia, and Emmeryn are very dead-pan in their delivery; I get it, Veronica is supposed to be disconnected. It's just that if you mixed their audio lines and asked me to guess who's speaking which line, I wouldn't be able to tell you because their deliveries sound so similar. I want to give her the benefit of the doubt in that it's the notoriously inconsistent voice directing that happens in FEH, but that's only a part of it. I will say though that with Maria and Lyn, their deliveries are a little more up-beat at the least, and I think Easter Maria's line where she gushes about her outfit is cute. And I DO like Brave Veronica's "There, there", like she's trying to be a good ally to the Order, but she's super awkward about it. Part of the issues though, at least with Lyn and Emmeryn, is that I tend to lean more towards what I've initially heard with them, Awakening with Emmeryn and Smash Bros with Lyn. I know Lyn's supposed to be a teenager and that Smash Bros voice was probably WAY too mature, but if Wendee could have compromised a little by leaning into her Trish voice, I could see that working out better for the performance.

I do think she fits everyone she played, though I also remember your ask with Lizzie Freeman, and I still stand by that she would have been a better fit for Veronica. But Wendee's not a BAD choice for Veronica, just... not the best when you hear Thrasir.

I have to be honest, there's not a whole lot of range going on with Wendee's characters. She's kind of got the Greg Chun issue where all her performances sound the same. Again, part of that I blame on the voice directing for not catching that and just going "Yeah that's good" instead of having her switch it up a bit, but that reasoning only goes so far.

I hate doing this, but for Wendee I'd have to give her a 7/10. Again, outside of FEH her work is stellar and I like it, but I think it's FEH's format that kind of holds her back.

#Fire Emblem Heroes #FEH #ask game #Again I feel so shitty giving her that score because I've seen firsthand the actors I KNOW are incredibly talented at acting have some #awful deliveries in FEH; as I mentioned before with Todd Haberkorn and Antony Del Rio #ESPECIALLY Antony Del Rio! I'm hoping that if Percy gets added that the voice director won't screw him over #Or if Silas gets an alt that they'll allow him to actually EXPRESS SOME MORE EMOTIONS

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revvethasmythh · 1 year

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I've just read through your FCG meta/response from yesterday and I love it. With regards to the popularity of Sam's characters (and I agree with a lot of what you said on why), how much of that do you think is connected to how shippable his characters are from a fandom POV? In campaign 1, Pikelan is so much less popular than the other 2 canon ships. In campaign 2, anything other than Veth/Yeza (almost no fandom engagement) is treated as a crackship (fjeth) or most people insist it's familial (widobrave). Then obviously there is very little shipping for FCG in general. Is it because he's a funnyman? Is it what you were talking about with flawed characters and how they wouldn't consistently serve a fave enough to be shipped with them? Is it just that he tends not to create conventionally attractive characters? I'd say the gulf in ship popularity for the canon ships of campaign 1 followed the lines of conventional attractiveness a little strictly for me to write it off as coincidence, even if there were other extending circumstances like Pike being away a lot of the time. And the fact that one of Sam's most popularly shipped characters (Loquatius) happens to be one of the more conventionally attractive ones. Although it's pretty clear from watching calamity that those two would've been a very popular couple regardless.

That became a vent but the main question is do you think that one feeds the other? Are Sam's characters less popular because they're less shippable by fandom standards? Or are they less shipped because they're less popular? Or do those two things feed one another? I'm sorry that was a lot thrown at you but since your recent analysis was so good that I was curious to hear your thoughts on this.

Okay, there's enough to unpack here that I could probably write a few essays in response, but I'm going to try to keep this as concise as I can, so I'll answer the TL;DR as best I can keeping the rest in mind. I do think the two things feed each other to some extent, though I find myself leaning toward thinking his characters are less popular because they're less shippable, and less shippable because of their unconventionality. This might be the cynic in me, but I've been in fandom long enough to know that shipping tends to be a huge motivator for folks, though I'm also sure the fact that Sam's characters tend to have BIG personalities affects if people want to engage with them or not as well.

Like, I have caught myself on many occasions considering how balls to the walls popular Widobrave would have been if Nott wasn't a goblin and therefore very unconventionally attractive (lots of monsterfuckers in the fandom do be fakes, as it turns out), or considering how Veth gets overlooked as a shipping option or even just as a character who is attractive because, well. She's short, she's fat, she's brown, she's loud, and she takes up space. Like, we all know that's the reason even if we don't say it out loud very often. It's why it's easier for people to relegate her as a wife and a mother, heavy emphasis on mother, and not have to engage much deeper with her character and complexities than that, and certainly not her shipping viability (hence the "Veth is Caleb's mom" thing that will never ever go away)

And with FCG, I have seen with my own eyes people say that he's not shippable because he's a robot. Like, I don't think it's a secret that a fair few folk think that way. I find it interesting that when Sam said on 4sd, "Fresh Cut Grass is desperate to do things like be able to taste, be able to smell, be able to feel love, the things that you all can do that I can't" I saw people say in response: "but he CAN feel love. The love of his friends," but I've also not seen a single interpretation that this may be a desire to feel love in a romantic sense on his part. Now, I'm not saying that's what Sam meant--it could be much more general than that, as FCG is still struggling with understanding their personhood and what it even means to feel love at all, platonic or otherwise--but the absence of the interpretation is not, uh, lost on me.

So, I suppose the point to make here is that a huge amount of fandom prioritizes shipping over just about anything else. Sam's characters rarely take the spotlight in shipping situations (though he does do a huge amount of delicious, subtle pining. it's his speciality), with the exception of Quay, who is probably his most conventionally attractive character apart from Tary, who didn't actively get a big romantic plot in VM the way Quay did in Calamity (he got the Sam Riegel classic--quiet pining). So if Sam comes out swinging with these non-traditionally attractive characters, as he basically always does, who tend to make a lot of jokes, because he's Sam, fandom seems to write them off as jokes and/or unattractive and not viable for shipping, therefore less interesting or having less worth engaging with entirely.

And here's the thing--it's not just Sam this is affecting right now, either! Look at Chetney. Chetney is the fucking spiritual successor of Veth Brenatto, like all croaky and horny and hilarious and A LOT. He's also old, which immediately took him out of the shipping pool for a lot of people, and it feeds into the way people think of him as just a joke. like "lmao look there's an OLD guy in the party this time, what a racket." Which is ridiculous, but definitely an opinion you're going to find floating around, both said and unsaid. And I think all you need to do is look at the stark absence of Chetney on AO3, the fact that there are all of 22 Fearne/Chetney fics (a ship that gets seriously played up in canon, just like Pikelan did during VM), and the absence of serious discussion about him to see a correlation between a character being traditionally shippable and one that the fandom deems worthwhile to talk about.

I mean, here's the thing--this is a limited discussion that I'm able to do right now. This could be an entire dissertation and there are complexities I'm not hitting on, I'm absolutely sure of it. But I would generally agree that the more unconventional a character is, particularly one who is unconventionally attractive, the less shippable fandom will view them and then they would be less popular in general, and I think that's something Sam runs aground of often, yeah. Like I said, I'm sure there are complexities I'm not hitting right now, but I do think, generally speaking, this is often true. Even though I think it's really unfortunate that fandom bends so heavily toward prioritizing shipping like that. But, like, they do

#I've reserved some discussion on scanlan because I was not in the fandom while VM was still airing #and I don't think I have the best scope of understanding to dig into what was going on with him or even pikelan is general #also like. I could do a separate long post about how fandom treats EACH of these characters like there is A LOT to unpack #so I hope I've managed to articulate a decent response to your question! I may have just talked a lot I'm not sure #long post #anon #asks #fresh cut grass #chetney pock o'pea #veth brenatto #i wish I could just beam my thoughts directly at you anon because idk if I said this well I have to many thoughts to get it all out clean

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