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hainethehero · 6 months

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Bucky shouldn'tve been in there. Steve's room.

But the idiot had been avoiding him for three months now. And so he thought he'd pay a visit. Unfortunately, Steve was off doing God knows what so, he thought he'd laze around by the time, wait for his pal. It had been about an hour, when he'd heard something clatter from inside Steve's bedroom.

He quickly put down the coffee he'd helped himself to and gingerly approached the location of the sound. Steve's room smelt of sweet vanilla and peppermint. It looked cosy, soft white walls, a king sized bed with baby blue quilts and even softer looking pillows. The walk-in closet door was slightly ajar, with the sleeve of a plaid shirt poking out and a pair of running shoes just on the threshold.

Must've been in a rush this morning, Bucky thinks with a fond huff.

He walks over to the side of the bed closest to the window where the curtains are billowing like sails in the wind. Steve must've really been in a rush to leave his window open. He reaches out to shut the window when something shimmering on the floor catches his eye.

It's a small book. Leather-bound and tan with gold script embossed on the front. Bucky's mind provides a memory of Sarah Rogers walking with it everywhere she went. Of tiny Steve reading from it while he waited at the hospital for his mother after her evening shifts. If memory served him correctly- and these days it occasionally did- they'd buried the prayer book with Sarah when she died. Steve had told him to.

He must've really searched for this one then, Bucky realizes wistfully. His chest twinges at the thought of Steve waking up from the ice, lost and confused and trying his best to find anything and anyone to reconnect with his past again. Then he frowns. If Steve was so desperate to reconnect with his past, he wouldn't be avoiding Bucky right now. It's a bitter thought that seems too harsh in the soft and peaceful aura of Steve's room, so he quickly picks up the book. He eyes the open Bible on Steve's nightstand, a blue-beaded rosary with a celtic cross resting atop crisp pages.

Steve had never been as religious as his mother, but perhaps the future had changed his mind. Bucky knows it had changed him. Maybe Steve thought that going back to his Irish catholic roots again would somehow bring some closure. The thought doesn't comfort Bucky nearly as much as it should, because he knows Steve's been avoiding him, the one person who could probably share in his despair and loneliness and grant him some closure.

He sighs, moving to rest the prayer book back on the nightstand when he notices a word just barely concealed beneath the raised cover of the small prayer book.

Bucky. It says Bucky.

He frowns, reaching for the book again, every voice in his head screaming at him to leave it alone. That this was Steve's private stuff and he shouldn't be prying like some crazy obsessed person. But a part of him- the part that sort of resented Steve for avoiding him like the plague- won out. He opened the book.

Bucky's Prayer, it said, written in Steve's semi-neat scrawl.

The next line is a subheading that reads, "Prayer for Forgiveness."

It goes, "Jesus, forgive my sins. Forgive the sins that I can remember, and also the sins I have forgotten. Forgive the wrong actions I have committed, and the right actions I have omitted. Forgive the times I have been weak in the face of temptation, and those when I have been stubborn in the face of correction. Forgive the times I have been proud of my own achievements, and those when I have failed to boast of your works. Forgive the harsh judgements I have made of others, and the leniency I have shown to myself. Forgive the lies I have told to others, and the truths I have avoided. Forgive me the pain I have caused others, and the indulgence I have shown to myself. Jesus have pity on me, and make me whole."

Bucky knows it from the many times he'd go to church with Steve. Prayers for forgiveness were particularly popular during war-times as many women, children and men who weren't able to join in the war effort were encouraged to pray for their soldiers on the front lines. Steve used to tell him how he knew his mother would go to confessional, to pray for her husband and her ailing son. She often asked for forgiveness. As if it was her fault the way things had turned out.

He reads a line from the prayer again, one that Steve had underlined in blue ink, an anger building within his chest.

"Forgive me for the pain I have caused others, and the indulgence I have shown to myself."

Did Steve feel that way? And why the hell was it called Bucky's Prayer?

He turns the page and sees another subheading, "Intercession." He knew that as the part where the preacher would ask the congregation to say specific prayers for certain things and people they'd wished to pray for, or intercede. The next few lines make him sick.

"For Bucky,

I pray that his mind is healed in totality,

I pray he feels whole again,

I pray he feels loved again,

I pray he never feels alone again,

I pray he never has nightmares again,

And I pray he forgives me for my transgressions, for the pain I've caused him, though I don't deserve it. Amen."

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creativealmonds · 10 months

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Steve Rogers: What Was and What Is

Warnings for mention of rape. It’s mentioned and used as an example. I’m not saying the person was right; he was wrong, and nobody deserves that and never will deserve that.

Modern Steve Rogers and Steve Rogers 1930s addition meet.

It could be a dream, or it could be time travel bullshit. Endgame or pre-civil war shenanigans

Steve, 6’2, 240 lb, strong and healthy as an ox and horse, respected and admired; meets Steve, 5’4, 95 lb, a disabled, sickly scrap of a kid with too big a mouth and not enough sense to step down.

The way I see it, in the first movie, Steve wanted to be somebody more than himself. Somebody that people would listen to. Bucky tells him, “You’ve got nothin to prove.” But in Steve’s eyes, he wants to be respected without having to kick and fight for it. People see him and see a weak man; to those people, the weak are not respected.

Post serum Steve has that respect, but it’s respect for Captain America. The personality and persona of the first Avengers movies, “Language!”, of that white, American man, not from anywhere specific to America, just America, that stands up for American beliefs. The people like Coulson want him to sign stuff and speak on behalf of their causes, not because they want Steve Rogers’ opinion but because they want Captain America’s backing.

Steve gets the respect he wanted, along with hero worship, awe, and someone who is not a person but a title, a set of ideals.

In Greek mythology, Zeus sleeps with moral women, with and without their consent, and Hera punishes the women and their children for this. On a moral, human level, Hera would be a victim-blaming shrew, and Zeus would be a serial rapist.

But the Greeks weren’t interested in what these people would be as people. Zeus and Hera are mouthpieces that the authors are using to get a story across. The gods in ancient Greek myth weren’t good; they weren’t ideals to strive for; they were a reflection of the world they lived in.

The Ancient Greeks didn’t treat women well, and Zeus reflected that. Hera was the goddess of marriage. Anyone breaking their marriage vows would have desiccated her domain.

Captain America is like Zeus and Hera in the way his image has been used for years to oust certain ideas and beliefs. He’s respected, and people listen when he speaks.

There’s a purity to Steve in the first movie; he’s an idealist who believes in the good of others. By the time he goes back in time and steals the tesseract from himself, he’s tired and worn out. Slowly, we see him change from an idealist to an idealist that knows that ideals can’t change things on their own.

He knows he has power. In civil war, all he has to do is ask people to join him, and they do. Some of that is Captain America mystique, but once the rose-tinted venire comes off, people see the same Steve Rogers from 1930s Brooklyn.

I wonder sometimes what he thinks about. ��Would they listen to me if I didn’t look like this? If the serum had kept me the same size, but I still got the strength?”

Because he was disabled. He wasn’t given the time of day. Some fans speculate that he was premature, and his mother might have been told to let him die. That he was too much trouble, that he would have too many health issues, that he would cost too much money, and that he wasn't worth keeping alive. Some fans speculate that he is an Irish Catholic, the son of immigrants. In that time, being an Irish immigrant was bad enough; add Catholic on to it, and he’s fighting an uphill battle starting at the bottom of a creek. A poor kid, disabled, and part of a marginalized group would crave respect—to be looked in the eye and not seen as some bug under someone else’s shoe. That type of thing isn’t easily forgotten.

I can see pre-Steve seeing his future self, what he could be, and asking questions. How did this happen, when did it happen, and what changes? The man he wanted to be is standing in front of him.

Post Steve is seeing who he once was. A kid that doesn’t know what the world can throw at him—the world war, fighting best friend, dying, getting thrown in the future, several alien invasions, super hero shenanigans—is green, naive, and hopeful, and he sees how far he’s come. He’s still Steve “I can do this all day” Rogers but that shine has come off the world. He knew it was there before; he lived in America during the Great Depression and World War II and didn’t take shit from bullies. He knows that the world is cruel. And that sometimes you can’t stop people from being hurt, that you can’t fix things, and that no matter how hard you fight, you can lose everything.

I want to see how future Steve would see his past self and how past Steve would see his future self. The wonder and not quite belief that this person is you. The nostalgia and reflection of what made you who you once were.

If a fanfic got written about this or something in this ballpark, I would read it immediately.

#steve rogers #captain america #avengers #marvel cinematic universe #mcu #Irish Steve rogers #Catholic Steve rogers #Irish Catholic Steve rogers #Post serum Steve rogers #Pre serum Steve rogers #Time travel

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amarriageoftrueminds · 1 year

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Joseph Rogers & America:

Follow up to this ask about Steve and Bucky’s extended family from pre-war.

~

In CATFA, Steve said his dad was injured by mustard gas in WWI, but was in the 107th infantry, an American regiment, not an Irish one.

On the face of it, that makes it look like Joseph Rogers must have been in NYC from at least March 1917, possibly as late as Oct 1917 (since America only joined WWI in April 1917, but didn't deploy until 20 November).

However...

If Joseph was living in Ireland between 1914-1918 then he would’ve been drafted into a UK Regiment before he could emigrate to America (since Ireland was then still part of the UK). Even as a resident alien in America, if he hadn’t already declared intent to become a US citizen he would’ve been subject to the UK’s draft instead.

So even though America didn’t join the war until 1917, to have avoided the UK draft altogether Joseph probably has to have been in New York since at least 1914... unless, as said, he emigrated later but had already declared intent to become a US citizen.

(My first thought was that Sarah must have been with him, but not necessarily... She and Joseph could’ve married in Ireland, then he could have emigrated first, before her, to earn enough money to bring her along. Her alienation from an extended family network could’ve been because of this, or some other reason.)

Joseph and Sarah would’ve known from April 1917 that Joseph was going to be deployed with the US Army.

So if you believe the DOB for Steve being July 4 1918, then we know Joseph and Sarah must've been in the same place on Oct 7, 1917.

(Or a little later, if Steve was born premature, which is another possibility. Unless Steve’s real DOB is something else in 1918. But which months it could’ve been are severely limited by the dates of Joseph’s potential deployments.)

Which puts the date of Steve's ‘official’ conception right before Joseph could conceivably have first been deployed (Nov 1917).

That to me suggests a certain urgency.

If Sarah wasn’t already with Joseph in NYC by then, she definitely emigrated at the very latest in October 1917.

It’s a potentially quite bittersweet scenario of Sarah going by boat all the way to America to be with her husband, only for her husband to be almost immediately shipped off to Europe to fight in the war. 😕

#historically accurate stucky tag #irish steve #steve rogers #steve meta #joseph rogers #sarah rogers #joseph rogers meta #sarah rogers meta #mcu meta #meta #mcu #barring visits she would’ve been alone for the entire term of her pregnancy #(and it’s possible Joseph received his injury before Steve was born too just to make matters even worse!)#like to think of them as being a star-crossed protestant/catholic couple #hence the apparent lack of family/community support for single mum sarah #apropos of nothing I also like to hc that their real names were seosamh and saoirse but they anglicized them when they emigrated #it's also possible that she and steve were alienated from the local irish catholic community...#by the antisemitism rife (but not universal) among the irish-catholics of nyc at the time #(see 'neighbors in conflict' by ronald h. bayo for more info)#not sure where I'm going with this I just thought it was interesting...#my meta

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chekhovs-slinky · 2 years

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guys you don’t get it Steve speaks Irish he does we just haven’t seen it yet because everyone forgot to tell him Irish people aren’t oppressed anymore bro trust me please—

#steve rogers #marvel #irish catholic #Irish Steve Rogers #he’s canonically the son of Irish immigrants #why wouldn’t he know Irish #also Bucky is Jewish in my canon but that’s unrelated

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princelycannibal · 1 year

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a little sketchy boy of texan!steve and bucky drinking together :) its been a long day for both of them

#cannibal.me #the avengers #Bucky Barnes #steve rogers #stucky #texan au #buckys family has a dairy farm :) and chickens #mcu fanart #my brother said steve looks racist and i almost cried #steves still irish catholic hes just... in texas now

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endgame-steve-is-not-real · 2 years

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and i love gay jewish bucky and his queer irish-catholic husband steve in this chillis tonight/this morning

Same story every morning/night. I will always love them🥰🥰

#stucky #stevebucky #gay jewish bucky my beloved #irish catholic steve my beloved #nice ppl #steve rogers #bucky barnes

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hersheysmcboom · 6 days

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I really really need help with this fanwork, would mind being my coauthor please

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lauriegraham01 · 10 months

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40s!headcannons - steve & bucky

pairings: steve rogers x reader, bucky barnes x reader

summary: headcannons of steve and bucky from the 40s.

w/c: 645

content warning: minor angst, mentions of domestic/child abuse, fluff, mention of smoking/drinking.

Steve Rogers

Steve always being shy to show affection, for fear of rejection. So whenever you initiate acts of affection, he goes red and his heart does somersaults.

He doesn't like to talk about his dad much, it still hurts to think about the abuse he and his mom faced because of him.

But he sometimes misses the way his dad was before the abuse started but he feels wrong for missing someone who caused so much pain.

Steve first learned how to draw from recreating the human anatomy because he had a curiosity for medicine, taking after his mother who was a nurse.

Steve learned how to do everything around the house- cooking, cleaning, hell he even knew how to sew. His mother had instilled the importance of knowing how to take care of yourself within him at a young age.

Coming from Irish-Catholics, he and his mother would attend mass frequently.

Steve loved midnight Christmas mass the most.

Loved reading and saving up to buy new books and comics.

Was the type of kid to hide underneath the covers with a flashlight just so that he could read late at night.

He memorized the entire subway system at one point.

His favorite places to take you on dates would be parks and record shops.

Textbook definition of a gentleman, would open every door for you, walk closest to the street, give you his jacket if your cold, and drop you off at your doorstep after a date.

After the serum, he still wasn't used to his new body so he would still accidently buy clothes that were too small.

Steve wrote to you and told you everything about what he was doing while away.

This man would lose his mind every time you sent him a photo of yourself in your letters.

Worshipped the ground you walked on and treats you nothing short of a queen.

He was afraid that his inexperience would be an issue and after reassuring him that it wasn't he fell even deeper in love with you.

Needless to say Steve loved learning new things with you ;)

Bucky Barnes

Bucky was openly affectionate and it often meant that you would get dirty look from girls who had a crush on him because they were jealous that Bucky was paying to attention to you.

Bucky is Jewish (especially considering that his character is based on another Jewish character/has Jewish influences)

He would invite Steve over for Seder dinners every year.

Bucky cannot cook to save his life, his role in the kitchen often being helping cut veggies or wash dishes.

Bucky was a naturally loud person seeing as he lived with four sisters and had an all around loud household/family.

Bucky picked up street-boxing when he was 13.

Steve hated this. Often having to be the one to patch up Bucky after a nasty fight.

Bucky could understand and even speak a little bit of Spanish, learning from friends and from girls he'd dated before.

Bucky would sneak up the fire escape to be able to knock on your window and see you late at night.

Bucky smokes, but never around you or Steve out of respect.

He is a sappy drunk. He will go on and on about how much he loves you and how beautiful you are.

He can handle his liquor.

He loved going dancing with you- especially at jazz clubs.

An absolute sucker for rhythm and blues.

He knew that he wanted to marry you, but he wanted to wait until after the war to get married.

He had the ring picked and locked away.

He kept a picture of you tucked away in his coat pocket, admiring the picture everyday while overseas.

He wrote to you often, asking about how things were back home. Your responses giving him hope that this war would end soon and he's come back home to you.

#40s bucky #40s steve rogers #bucky barnes #captain america #steve rogers #pre serum steve #bucky barnes x reader #steve rogers x reader #bucky barnes fanfiction #steve rogers fanfiction #fluff #slight angst #marvel

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miasmultifandomdump · 9 months

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The idea that people think Steve Rogers is some beacon of privilege is so strange to me. He was conceptualized as the antithesis of all that — a disabled, poverty stricken son of Irish Catholic immigrants (not a big deal now, but they faced a lot of xenophobia back then). Of course, Steve did have certain privileges such as being white (sure, he likely faced xenophobia, but let's be real he could easily pass for not being Irish if he wanted), but the idea that he would be on board with bigotry is laughable. Sure, he may have some internalized biases to work through — we all have that. But he'd still be against bigotry in all its forms.

Steve Rogers didn't become Captain America because he blindly follows the whims of the American government. Actually, he's shown that he refuses to do that on several occasions. He became Captain America because he wanted to help the little guy, the people who were being bullied. There is no doubt in my mind that he would stand up against bigotry every chance he got.

#steve rogers #steve rogers defense squad #pro steve rogers #captain america #all queued up with nowhere to go

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kabishkat19 · 6 months

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Steve Rogers Rant

(Just rewatched Avengers : age of ultron and wanted to rant about something I realised)

If anyones else remembers there the infamous on-going joke in the movie where Steve says language and the whole team makes fun of him.

For a while I remember everyone talk about how that was very out of character for Steve and talked about how the MCU tried making him into a Boy Scout like character when that’s not who he was.

And then it came to me…

Yes it was!

I’d like to remind ya’ll one very big thing about Steve; his parents were Irish, Catholic, immigrants from the 1920’s, you can bet your ass Steve Rogers has the phrase “Language!” In graved into his brain from his mother, which is probably why after he said it he was instantly like “it just slipped out” like a reflex.

Any time someone cursed or heaven forbid took the lords name in vain, Sarah Rogers was calling out “Language!” causing the sorry bastard to flinch.

As far as the whole “he’s not a Boy Scout” goes; I understand that Steve represents going against the woes of government control despite his title but that all begun after he joined the war, his entire life before that was being a good kid for his mum and neighbourhood; you can bet he was helping little old ladies down the street despite them probably being stronger then he was pre serum.

And that doesn’t just go away, even through MCU rarely brings it up the scrawny little kid is still there and Steve Rogers is such a Boy Scout… a Boy Scout who’s seen behind the curtain of governmental corruption… but a Boy Scout none the less.

Thank you that is all🖤

#steve rogers #Steve Rogers rant #marvel mcu #mcu #MCU rant #avangers #avengers age of ultron #steve rogers is a boy scout #ranting #just random rambles

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bedlamsbard · 11 months

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I for one would LOVE to hear about That Man's opinion on the Sokovia Accords, and any other blends of the real world into marvelverse as you have time and space for

Donald Trump is the horrifying combination of anti-Accords, anti-Captain America, and anti-Iron Man. I have THOUGHTS on this.

Okay, so CACW takes place in 2016, yes? which was a horrifying enough election year IRL, but in the Marvel Cinematic Universe we're looking at a scenario where I have postulated that Matthew Ellis is the Democratic candidate. Ellis was elected in 2012 after Barack Obama dropped out of the 2012 race post-Battle of New York as a result of pressure from the World Security Council; my best estimate is that Ellis takes Joe Biden's place as Obama's vice president in the 2008 election (apologies to our Irish Catholic granddad, we can probably safely assume he's still a senator in this AU) and coasts to electoral victory on a wave of post-BONY patriotism. (see my hard-hitting investigative journalism on who was president during the Battle of New York. George W. Bush was president during the events of IM1, we can assume that all real world presidents prior to Ellis served as usual, a.k.a. FDR was president during CATFA, Bill Clinton was president during Captain Marvel and the BW prologue -- actually, we know Clinton was president, because we see him in the BW credits, same with a few others.)

For better or worse -- worse, as it turns out -- Ellis's administration becomes closely linked to Tony Stark and James Rhodes, since Tony and Rhodey very publicly save his life during the events of IM3 and are responsible for his VP (Rodriguez, no first name that I'm aware of) being arrested for treason and probably other nasty stuff. Four months after that, the events of CATWS go down, and while Ellis is quoted in Steve's Smithsonian exhibit with the "Welcome Back" wall bannerand thus they presumably met, Steve is not closely associated with Matthew Ellis in the same way that Tony Stark is. Steve is also closely associated with a major blow to the American intelligence apparatus, the deaths of most of the World Security Council, the destruction of SHIELD, the "death" of Nick Fury, the disgrace and death of Alexander Pierce, and the arrests of a number of major American politicians, including Senator Stern of Pennsylvania. We know from CATWS that Ellis himself was a target of Project Insight; I have also postulated that the Hydra reveal had a major effects on his administration, including either the arrest or the resignation of his original Secretary of State. Thaddeus Ross got the SecState position not because he was Ellis's original pick, but because post-CATWS (or possibly post-AoU), he was able to leverage his previous experience with the Hulk and other recipients of the super soldier serum to be politically useful.

Ellis has to be in favor of the Sokovia Accords because his SecState is running the show -- in theory the Accords will be administered by a UN panel, in actual practice, as we see in CACW and BW, the intent is for either the American SecState in general or Thaddeus Ross specifically to have sole control over the Avengers. Less than ideal by anyone's standards. Pre-Accords, no one knows how this is going to shake out.

Let's go back to how Donald Trump hates Steve Rogers, like, so much. The feeling is mutual. I'm pretty sure Trump personally knew, or at least met, Tony Stark pre-Iron Man, because they would have been in some of the same social circles: those personalities are going to clash. That's not going to go over well. Trump probably made overtures to Steve because CAPTAIN AMERICA! we love America! what's more great for America than the Greatest Generation! only uh. it's Steve. and Trump pre- (and post-) 2016 is everything Steve Rogers hates. sure, he's a great piece of American propaganda, but he grew up as a poor second generation immigrant son of a single mother with significant health issues during the Great Depression. that didn't go away when he got the serum and it certainly didn't go away when he got out of the ice! so Steve probably rebuffed the initial overtures politely, but he did rebuff them, and Trump, hmm, doesn't handle that sort of thing real well. so then a big part of That Man's campaign turned into the "fuck Captain America" tour with a side of "fuck the Avengers," playing heavily into the damage done during the events of Phase 1 and Phase 2.

Which Ellis's campaign was probably also doing, but more circumspectly because Matthew Ellis is an actual politician and he's politically linked to two of the ten Avengers (Tony and Rhodey); Tony's also the one with the most obvious "pull." Steve's got some but Steve doesn't actually want to use it.

So on the one hand, if Ellis is pro-Avengers and pro-Accords, but in a "they should be controlled but we need them" sort of way, then his main opponent is going to not be in favor of either. In 2016 Trump does want the Avengers controlled (so he can have personal pull over the two Avengers he hates the most, Tony and Steve; he's probably also not fond of many of the others! like, Natasha and Wanda are both women and immigrants...). But he doesn't want them controlled by a UN panel, he wants them controlled by the United States of America. You don't let THE UNITED NATIONS give orders to CAPTAIN AMERICA. The Avengers are mostly made up of American citizens, they include some fine pieces of American engineering; this is America's business. So that's his focus on the Accords leading up to CACW.

CACW itself is a political disaster for Matthew Ellis and almost certainly flipped the election for him -- it goes so horrifically badly for him even if he got the "victory" of the Accords passing that there's basically no way to recover from it, though presumably he tried in the months between May and November 2016. The events of BW and the Raft breakout during those months put the nail in the coffin of Ellis's reelection campaign. Trump spends that time beating Ellis's failure to control the Avengers into the ground, along with personal insults about Tony's incompetence as a superhero and Steve's disloyalty as an American, etc. etc., along with all the other stuff from his 2016 campaign. Absolute disaster for everyone on every level.

(Ross manages to skate through into Trump's administration -- since we know he's there in IW in 2018; I think he's addressed as "Mr. Secretary" there but can't check rn -- because he's a slippery son of a bitch and probably manages to parlay his Hulk experience, his hardheadedness in going after Natasha Romanoff, and tbh probably the fact that his nickname is Thunderbolt Ross into a cabinet position. (We've all heard the speculation that Jim Mattis got the real world SecDef position because his nickname is Mad Dog Mattis, right?) It's possible that in IW he's no longer SecState and is in fact running that UN panel, but I think that table of people we see has U.S. military uniforms at it and Rhodey specifically refers to potentially being court-martialed.)

presumably there are no Avengers-level disasters between 2016 and 2018 (we know the events of Spider-Man Homecoming and Ant-Man and the Wasp take place then, but they're not "call the team out" big), which is probably the only thing that keeps the whole disaster from going up in flames before then. the fact that no one can catch Steve or the other rogue Avengers must be driving That Man crazy and he probably went on some vicious Twitter rants about that.

and then, in my heart of hearts, he gets snapped in 2018.

I am sorry for making you think about Donald Trump's political views but at least they aren't his actual real world ones (horrifying).

#silentstep #bedlam replies #bedlam watches the mcu #I think I need a specific tag for these posts #mcu politics #I'll add the others when I get home #presuming our 2023 events are going down on a two or three year delay in-universe are we speculating he sold the im suit plans lol

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flashfuture · 3 months

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Young Irish Catholic immigrant Steve Rogers who was chronically ill, orphaned in New York City at 14 during the Great Depression, and worked a dozen little jobs for pennies on the dollar and spent his spare time beating up Nazis is 100% a union supporter and communist and I feel like the 2023 Captain America run is the first to be brave enough start admitting this.

Also Steve specifically as established in the early 80s is from the Lower East Side of Manhattan not Brooklyn as the movies claimed.

Lower East Side of Manhattan in the early 20th century was a known anarchist, communist, and socialist hot spot.

#marvel comics #steve rogers #captain america

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amarriageoftrueminds · 1 year

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Significant aspect of Steve being Irish-Catholic:

As well as having branches of the Nazi party (ie. the German-American Bund), the Brooklyn of Steve’s day also had a big problem of antisemitism amongst the local Irish-Catholic population.

.

Examples:

There was a Canadian-American Catholic priest and demagogue named Charles Coughlin, who received indirect funding from the Nazi party. Up until 1939 'Father Coughlin’ had both a regular right-wing talkradio programme, and a matching newspaper (ironically called Social Justice), broadcasting pro-fascist, anti-communist, virulently antisemitic diatribes. (He was the inspiration for the character Brother Justin Crowe in the show Carnivale.)

In New York, Coughlin’s writings prompted the creation of an antisemitic organisation called the Christian Front, which held public rallies on the intersecting corners of Jewish/Irish neighborhoods in Brooklyn, with the specific intention of drumming up conflict. And just as in Nazi Germany, this indoctrination started young: there were Hitler Youth summer camps in both New York and New Jersey.

In wider pop culture, the most successful broadway play for a long time was Abie’s Irish Rose, a “schmaltzy interfaith romantic comedy" about the conflict between a Jewish family and Irish-Catholic family when a Jewish boy marries an Irish girl (so, that generation’s equivalent of Guess Who's Coming to Dinner.) It was so successful that it was mentioned in the lyrics to songs of other broadway shows, spawned a long-running series of tie-in movies, and had its own radio show.

Similarly, the musical West Side Story was originally titled ‘East Side Story’ and was about a star-crossed Jewish/Irish-Catholic couple in the Lower East Side of Manhattan (where Jack Kirby lived, and Cap too, before he was later moved to Brooklyn. Those other kids Jack Kirby grew up fighting? Probably Irish-Catholic.)

This is also why, when Jewish writer Norman Lear came to rip off UK sitcom Till Death Us Do Part to make US sitcom All in the Family, in the 1970s, his choice to play the role of the bigoted father -- even though he was inspired by his own, bigoted Jewish father -- was an Irish actor whose face “screams ‘Irish.’ (Lear kept being encouraged to use that and make the character Irish-Catholic in the show, but he refused.)

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Context:

That rise in Irish-Catholic antisemitism originated with the Fascist conflation of Jews with Bolshevism, and of Communism with the persecution of Christians.

(All this while Russian-Jewish immigrants to NYC were moving into traditionally Irish-Catholic areas, competing for jobs and housing, and their success was resented.)

This also tied into the Spanish Civil War, when Russian and Communist Front groups in America aided the Loyalist forces instead of the Fascists (the Abraham Lincoln Battalion, for example, was made up of American volunteers who fought for the Loyalists, and was 25% Jewish).

In New York, the fact that the Communist party membership was mainly Jewish was treated as proof that all Jews were Communist, (and therefore enemies of Catholics), even though the majority of Jews in New York were not Communists.

In fact, it was more the case that Jews were drawn to what they perceived as progressivism -- grounded in a history of discrimination -- and since they saw Fascism as their chief threat, they were more likely to accept Communists as allies in the fight against it (just as Catholics were more likely to ally with Fascists against Communism).

Amongst American Catholics there was also distrust of FDR's liberal New Deal policies, regarded as a wave of Communism sweeping the country, since the government’s helping of the poor post-Depression was seen as a deliberate infringement upon what was traditionally the territory of the Catholic Church. (I kid you not.)

And then, since Ireland was a neutral country, the Irish-Catholics in New York were able to continue to espouse such views during the war. Unlike them, the Germans and Italians suddenly became more circumspect (as they had during WWI), for fear of appearing to support America’s enemies, and suffering reprisals as a result.

And all this was not helped by the fact that the Pope shared this view of Communism, and collaborated with Hitler on the Reich Concordat, an authoritarian pact wherein the Vatican vowed to forbid Catholics in Fascist Germany from interfering in politics.

.

All of which is to say:

It’s a BIG DEAL for Steve’s Jewish creators to make Steve Irish-Catholic.

It means that, on top of being a Nazi’s worst nightmare (disabled, blonde, blue-eyed, turned into a supersoldier and yet still antifa), and fighting Bundists, Silver Shirts and ANP members, as you’d expect, Steve often would've been fighting his own people, as well.

That takes an even greater strength of character and commitment to left wing ideals.

.

tl;dr: in historical context, Steve being Irish-Catholic is hugely significant.

.

sources:

https://muse.jhu.edu/book/67077.

https://crimereads.com/forgotten-history-of-the-far-right-pro-nazi-anti-semitic-christian-front/

https://www.jstor.org/stable/25154932

https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2017/06/american-nazis-in-the-1930sthe-german-american-bund/529185/

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/gabrielsanchez/american-hate

https://sites.lsa.umich.edu/bcoppola/2019/01/01/father-coughlin-is-already-explaining-it-to-the-american-people-june-13-1939/

https://twitter.com/TheNormanLear/status/1582494950649757696

https://www.history.com/news/west-side-story-was-originally-about-jews-and-catholics

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/captain-america-getting-real-life-statue-some-say-its-wrong-place-180959706/

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Abie%27s_Irish_Rose

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/The_Cohens_and_Kellys

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/1999/10/pope-pius-xii-199910

#irish steve #steve meta #historically accurate stucky tag #steve rogers #mcu meta #meta #mcu #dat's me #this is JEWISH NEW YORKERS picking this identity for steve this is not a coincidence they didn't just pick one out of a hat it's IMPORTANT #so mcu bucky being based on jewish arnie roth while steve is irish-catholic = HUGE deal #steve and bucky = STAR CROSSED AS HECK #the only way they could've made it any more significant (and explicitly about being an ally to jews no matter ur background)#is if they made steve german-american #yet each man queues the thing he loves

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luimnigh · 1 year

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You know, I always find it weird when comics and movies tend to discuss Steve Rogers and religion because-

It always tends to have him portrayed in a very generic, non-denominational American Christian way. And I get it, Captain America, the general assumption is that he's the same sort of Christian as the majority of Americans.

But...

He's the son of Irish immigrants in the 1940s.

Realistically, dude's as Catholic as Daredevil.

#marvel #captain america #steve rogers

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racefortheironthrone · 1 year

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Question about religion & politics nowadays if it's within your purview. I have seen it said that Catholics are among the most liberal denominations within an expanded definition of Christian (tho opinions seem divided as to whether they, Jehovah's Witnesses & Mormons actually count as such). I remember a news show host telling a Reagan staffer that as a Catholic she wasn't part of the Religious Right. And I think you cited Steve Rogers Catholic background for his liberal politics.

Let’s be careful about this: I cited Steve Rogers’ Catholicism as an explanation for his partisan politics, which is a bit more complicated than ideological politics.

There is some important history behind this: ever since the first Irish Catholic immigrants started arriving in New York City in the 1840s, the Democratic Party became associated as the party that was open to Catholic voters, thanks largely to the efforts of Tammany Hall. This steady partisan identification could be remarkably fluid in terms of ideological content, as the Democratic Party made historic shifts on everything from the income tax to a national bank over the course of the late 19th century, and then changed even more dramatically with the advent of first Al Smith in the 1920s and the New Deal in the 1930s.

So within the context of the Catholic Church in the 1930s, a young Steve Rogers could have been exposed to a number of different ideological tendencies, from the Catholic Worker Movement on the left to pro-fascists like the blueshirts on the right. However, my strong belief - given that he was from New York City, that he was working-class, that his later politics were left-leaning, etc. - is that Steve Rogers grew up with very strong pro-New Deal politics in the home.

As to whether Catholicism is the most liberal denomination in the U.S, it really depends on when you're talking about (Catholic voting behavior started to change in the 1970s when the Church began to emphasize anti-abortion politics in the wake of Roe v. Wade, although Catholic voters still tend to be more Democratic than Republican), who you're talking about (not only do white Catholics vote differently from non-white Catholics, but there's a sharp distinction between more conservative and more liberal Catholics), and what issues you're talking about (economic issues, abortion, gay rights, etc.).

#history #marvel #marvel meta #steve rogers

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fandomfluffandfuck · 5 months

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hi s i absolutely ADORE you can(t) teach old dogs new tricks. i just wanted to know what images you have of steve and bucky when you picture them for the series. idk if you’ve mentioned it already but i would love to know

Aw, thank you! I'm glad you enjoy it!

I don't think I've put any actual images out there and... it's just as well 'cause I don't think there are really any images that exist for the exact look I imagine for them.

Basically, I'm imagining Steve older than we ever see him in the MCU (not counting Old Man because... he doesn't count) with almost entirely silver hair (shaved short sides and a longer quiff-like top) and a salt and pepper beard. Bucky is young, like, 40s Bucky before the war but with his longer hair. The Wakandian Jesus look, y’know?

A more drawn-out answer could be the character outlines I have in my original plan for the series (so don't mind the horrible grammar, haha):

Steve Rogers

Same/similar background

Brooklyn

Poor

Mom was single (Dad died before Steve can remember him) & poor, an immigrant from Ireland, a nurse in Hospitals around the area they lived

Mom died of cancer when Steve was in high school

Raised Irish Catholic

Uncircumcised

Born in 1969 (54)

Sexual Orientation

Gay

Ma had a feeling he was… she could probably tell… but he never told her before she died (she died when he was 17, and spent the rest of high school bouncing around between friends' houses until he graduated)

Left Brooklyn

Came to San Fransico to find new people & work (came out in San Fransico by the time he was 19)

Started as a photographer, and had a good eye for it (film camera w/ dark room development)... moved from scenery landscape photos to photos of people to fetish photography through a boyfriend (a past Daddy)... then slowly integrated more and more into the kink scene, was a boy for a long time, sold photos of himself, then photos of his subs… his professional dom business took off

(two coming outs, one coming out as gay, the other coming out as kinky w/ his kinky lifestyle)

Epidemic

1981 to early 1990s (AIDs epidemic)

Lots of friends died during HIV/AIDs crisis

He survived the HIV epidemic

Old-guard Leather & BDSM / Occupation

Leatherman

Professional Dominant

Sex worker

People pay to have scenes w/ him

Bondage & impact play are his specialties BUT he does a lot BC he’s been in the scene for so long

Was a photographer B4 pro dom… casual then a fetish photographer

Appearance

Blue eyes

Greying hair (salt & pepper)

Hair is short on the sides and a little longer on top

Beard

6’2” & 260-ish lbs

Obviously works out a lot…

His arms and shoulders are huge and his stomach is soft (a belly but when he flexes it’s pretty hard under a layer of fluff. His whole waist is wide, though). Also. He has an unfairly round and pert butt

Needs glasses when reading

Fashion

Often in a t-shirt & leather jacket with dark wash denim when casual

When domming… leather: leather peaked cap, leather jacket, leather shirt + leather tie (or leather vest w/out a shirt under it), big, wide leather belt, leather pants (or leather chaps on top of dark Levi jeans)

Usually prefers tight briefs as underwear

Aaaand Big, leather boots

Collar

Steve's play collar is black leather with silver hardware. It has a silver o-ring on the front, two o-rings on the side, a silver padlock on the back, and all around the collar there's a silver chain overlaying the leather. He had a good friend and BDSM gear craftsman make it for him, originally with the intent to collar someone else, but... it never ended up happening, Steve got a different collar instead, he just fucking loves this collar. It reminds him of the plain chain and padlock collars he used to see all the time at the leather bars and bathhouses. Rugged, masculine, junk-yard-esque collars.

Bucky Barnes

Background

Grew up in modern New York

Brooklyn (he was growing up by the time Steve had left the area for the West Coast)

Middle class

Parents are alive, Dad is an alcoholic (mean drunk) & Mom did the best she could, but they don’t talk often

Circumcised

Born in 1997 (26)

Sexual Orientation (1)

Gay

Came out when he was 18 (2015, June 26, when all 50 states legalized gay marriage)

Religion

Parents are both Jewish… Bucky goes back and forth with it… he isn’t practicing actively, but… it’s a little hard to leave the faith completely behind after being raised that way

Sexual Orientation (2)

Leviticus 18:23 & Leviticus 20:13 (Torah)

Mother was speechless, she nodded and grabbed his hand, when she turned away, Bucky saw her eyes were glossy (crying)

Sober father made him write out passages again and again and again and again after he came out, believing that it was a problem to be solved

Drunk father yelled at him, saying that he couldn’t believe his son was this way, he tried to do everything right!

Bucky wasn’t kicked out, but he didn’t exactly feel safe… so he left and lived with a friend (at their parent's house until he could afford to rent a place of his own)

He occasionally speaks to his Mom, but more often, he speaks to his sister. He doesn’t speak to his father.

While in NYC, he dated one guy for almost 2 years (stayed until he was 23) and went on a few dates w/ some more guys

Since moving to San Fransico he’s dated around more (23-26)

He hasn’t connected w/ anyone really... COVID-19 pandemic

Sexual Experience

Has had vanilla sex... kind of bored by it

KNOWS he's interested in kink

He’s topped in vanilla sex and the power he got from that, he liked… he wants more… more power dynamics

Wants to be a dom

Restraints really appeal to him (cuffs, rope, etc.)

Occupation

Web Developer

Codes

Works online (he used to go into an office in NYC, but when he expressed his decision to move & put in his 2 weeks, they didn’t want to let him go... online now)

Designs the front-end (the parts of a site a user interacts with) & back-end (the behind-the-scenes part) of sites (referred to as “full-stack”)

Doesn’t have a degree, he took classes in high school, then a few through the nearby community college, and was good enough to get hired, then he’s been building his career since then

Appearance

Long dark brown hair (often pulled back into a bun when he’s working on something)

Steel blue eyes

Stubble (short beard)

6’0” & 200-ish lbs

Works out... nice arms & NICE legs

Has a good amount of body hair, he obviously manscapes, but it’s dark & thick

Fashion

Around his apartment, he’s often in just a t-shirt and basketball shorts (or sweatpants)

Wears a lot of jockstraps

When he’s not home, he’s in a lot of ripped jeans (black) & t-shirts (loves his denim jacket) + he always has his dark aviator sunglasses BC his eyes are sensitive

I hope that was somewhat interesting 💀💀 and that it gives you a clearer picture! Thanks for the ask <3

#asks #bucky barnes #steve rogers #stucky #you can('t) teach an old dog new tricks

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