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queenangst · 3 years

Note

YOU COULD’VE JUST REPLIED ‘STOP’ TO MY COMMENTS INSTEAD OF FREEZING THEM I WOULD HAVE GOTTEN IT, PRICK

I was going to reply to one of your comments on AO3, but I suppose I'll do it here since you've sent me this. Whether you see it or not, read it or not, take it into consideration or not—that's up to you.

To respond to this ask specifically: what about freezing comments is me encouraging you to continue? To be clear, I chose to freeze those comments because I didn't want other people to respond to the threads, but I also froze your first comment—which didn't stop you from leaving two more on pick yourself up.

I hold no contempt for you. I have said it before, but I don't care if you (readers) dislike my works, aspects of my works, etc. That's fine. I understand not every fic is going to be everyone's cup of tea, and that's okay. But what I don't understand is how you failed to see how disrespectful you have been to me as a writer.

For a fic I wrote specifically about management Izuku and hero Shinsou, to focus on themes of heroism and failure and so on, the only thing you remarked was that I should write a version of this fic for Bakugou and Izuku. This story is not about them, you know that. But you shouldn't imply that a BKDK version would be better. You shouldn't demand, multiple times, for me to write another version of my fic. You could have shared this in a polite way. You could have said you loved the concept, and that you think it would also be interesting with management Izuku and Bakugou. Instead you spammed me, sounding entitled and demanding (not only to me, but to multiple writers who I spoke to initially). If I wanted to write a fic like the one you suggested, I probably would have. If you'd brought it up even a little more politely, as someone who enjoys Bakugou & Izuku, I might have thought about it. But multiple demands definitely did not endear me to the idea.

For that note, I also already do requests and commissions sometimes. If you had bothered you might have known that, and you could have asked when they're open, or even just asked me now in general what I thought of the idea. I write things I enjoy; but I also enjoy writing for ideas that other people share for me, that I may not think of. But those start with people respecting my work, my time, and me as a writer, with no expectations that I might actually write if I don't feel up to it.

After those comments, you then went through multiple fics and: critiqued my characterization because it doesn't fit your personal view of Bakugou, called that critique constructive, emphasized ships (Kiribaku, Bakubowl) at me, told me to write more, and bashed a character/s (All Might, and by implication, Izuku).

I understand that not everyone gets when they're being rude on the Internet. So I'll explain: my characterization is my choice, by my preference, and you were critiquing me because how I write Bakugou doesn't align with how you see him. Because he's not, to pull from your comment, harsh enough. (Does Bakugou have to be mean all the time? Doesn't he change, develop, and grow? And have more than one aspect to his personality?) And I didn't ask for constructive/criticism. If I wanted any, I would have stated so. You could have at least asked first if I did, if it wasn't clear. Following that, I think I make it very clear in my works and in the tags that I write about platonic relationships. Focusing on my work through ships (though yes, you ARE allowed to interpret something as romantic, I can't stop you and that's up to you) is disrespectful to me as a gen writer. Again, if I wanted to write ships, I would. And then you said All Might, a character I clearly like, sucks (character bashing, not criticism) and also implied Bakugou would be better with OFA. On a fic that is All Might & Izuku centric, where Bakugou isn't even there. On top of all of that, very, very little of your comments are about the fics themselves, and mostly about what you, the reader, wants. Which is, apparently, not what I write. Again, you don't have to like my work. You are welcome to have your own opinions. But if you don't like what I'm writing: don't read my fic, don't comment on my fic, ask me to write something else when I have requests or commissions, find an author you do like better, or even write it yourself. I encourage you to do so!

I don't know how else to explain the ways you have been rude to me as a writer. I shared (some of) your comments so people would see what not to do as a reader, and others because it was frankly a little ridiculous and I wanted to make light of a situation that while wasn't hurtful to me, was completely baffling. I blacked out your name and froze the comments for you—because I was worried other people might go looking, and regardless of what you said to me, I wouldn't like to encourage people to go after you for something that doesn't even offend me. Because yes—a lot of people agreed that you were being very rude. I stopped sharing them because I saw it was spreading, and I didn't want more people to get on your case. And once I saw they were picking up attention, I wrote a disclaimer that mentioned what I just said, and also states something I think is a good ending point: I'm not here to post hate about commenters. But if there is a comment that makes it off AO3 and onto my blog, then there is probably a reason why.

Addition: I dearly wish that you are kinder to other writers than you are to me. And I hope that whatever circumstances you are in that lead you to saying anything you have to me change, for your sake. And I hope everything is kinder to you, too. Continue reading my fic, continue commenting if you want. Hate me, be rude. That's okay. But I won't say anything more to you. I have said what I think you could listen to, and keep in mind that other writers might be hurt by what you comment and how you say it.

#asks #anonymous

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sakura-83 · 3 years

Text

Things from Anne with an e that I feel like writing down

Season 2 Episode 1: Youth Is The Season of Hope

1. Anne looking over her collection of treasures

2. Her walk through the forests and fields, talking to trees and watching butterflies and being free from worldly concerns such as dirtying her clothes or going home before dark

3. The general way that Anne loves nature

4. Anne falling into a creek. I’ve done that so many times

5. Anne coming hone covered in twigs and mud and Matthew just smiling

6. It does make me sad how Mr. Dunlop is genuinely happy at Green Gables but the plan still crumbles. He was a bad person but I still wish he could’ve had his house, a calm life, maybe then he could’ve changed forever.

7. The fact that when school isn’t in session, there’s no paper to be had for students

8. Anne critiquing the way Nate prays

9. “And bless those who are here, and those who are in our hearts” CUTTING INTO A SHOT OF THE BOAT GILBERT IS ON

10. Gilbert singing while he works

11. Bash being exasperated with Gilbert

12. Gilbert could’ve had a comfortable steady life but willingly chose to work in the name of adventure and experience

13. Nate trying to convince Anne of all people that geology is boring

14. Nate frequently says things that will trigger a flashback in Anne and yet she still continues to spring back up enthusiastically

15. The whole flirting thing between Nate and Marilla never fails to make me very uncomfortable

16. Yknow. It’s probably the money they stole from Jerry that’s paying the rent

17. Jerry having a mini heart attack when Anne is in the barn

18. Jerry knowing there’s something off about Nate but being unable to place it

19. Anne’s fond talk of reading seeking very surface level while the scene is interrupted by flashbacks of how it was the only hope, the only shred of happiness she was able to keep in her youth

20. “Reading can save your life.”

21. Anne finding Jane eyre when she had to hold the books as punishment

22. “Look at this sentence, isn’t it glorious!” “Sometimes you’re not very nice.” “What do you mean? Why are you- Jerry!” “No school for me, remember?” “I can teach you to read!”

23. Jerry telling her not to bother and her proceeding to relay the entire alphabet anyways

24. They don’t have any paper so Anne has to teach him by writing in the hay and dirt on the ground

25. Nate just starting to scream and throw things so people thing he’s having a breakdown

26. Stupid mr Barry falling for it

27. The cuthberts singing the same song as Gilbert while they work

28. Bash explaining to Gilbert that he’s a young white boy and he can do whatever he wants in life, but bash is stuck with his lot in life and needs to keep his job

29. Bash telling him he’s also bad at singing

30. “I’m so glad I get to live in a world where there are Octobers, aren’t you?”

31. Anne being baffled that they haven’t been to the beach since they were children

32. Anne going to the beach for the first time

33. The way she absolutely has to stand on the cliff edge over the ocean

34. Matthew waving back to her

35. Anne impulsively stripping down and jumping into the ocean during a Canadian October

36. Matthew doing the same

37. Anne can’t swim

38. Anne laughing at her near death experience

39. Matthew teaching her to swim

40. Anne asking to buy back Birdie with the harvest money

41. Even Marilla coming to enjoy the beach

42. Anne looking off into the sea from land and Gilbert looking out to the horizon from the ship deck

43. Only Anne would realize how well loved the gold chapter is

44. Anne’s impulsive and nosy nature is what ultimately revealed Nate’s lie

45. Nate manipulating a child and taking advantage of their trust

46. “How about a dashing hero, named Albert, Herbert, Rupert, Pilbert-“ “Pilbert!? That’s ridiculous! I would never write a story about a boy named Pilbert!” “It’s not like we can’t tell-“ “Well YOU always murder everyone because you can’t figure out what to do with your characters-“

47. Aunt Josephine wanting to read their stories

48. Anne using an entire framed embroidery piece to teach Jerry to read

49. Jerry trying to refuse learning to read but being convinced by the way Anne talks about it so fondly

50. “Reading can save your life.” “Alright, I’ll try it.” “YES!”

51. “Let’s kill the cat.” The cat being Anne. I wouldn’t put actually killing her past Nate

52. Them decorating a pie

53. Jerry carving the alphabet into the barn wall

54. Poor Jerry, not only did Nate beat him terrible but the comments about “a little French pig” are also. Ouch.

55. Anne coming out of a flashback and still acting brave, plus her starting to catch on to Nate based on his outbursts and Jerry’s behavior

56. Not Nate half stripping in front of Marilla >:(

57. Yayyyyy more marriage drama from the Barry household

58. “I just want to do something that matters for once.”

59. Mr Dunlop really isn’t so bad to me? A crook, sure, but one with basic empathy and way less full of malice towards children

60. Anne making him an apron

61. One specific tell of the lie being the specific repeated use of the phrase “moral quandary”. Most people in a genuinely situation wouldnt repeatedly use that phrase and Nate’s liberal use of it makes him feel scripted which is perfect because he’s a liar using a script

62. Marilla giving Jerry an entire BASKET of pastries for his family

63. Never tell Rachel Lynde a secret

64. $150 PER GOLD TEST????

65. Fun facts from Matthew, most folks in Avonlea make about $300-$400 a year

66. Nate isn’t a great actor but mr Dunlop certainly is, mostly because he’s half genuinely

67. “You are a moral man.” :/ well

68. Anne immediately thinking of writing to Gilbert and being determined to find where he is

69. Anne almost cracking the code with the stamp and then getting distracted

70. “Does that sound romantical?” The- the manifest, not the letter to Gilbert-“

71. “Please let there be gold in Avonlea, so that there’s no more hardship for anyone. And please, please help me get my letter to Gilbert. And please be sure I don’t misspell any words! Amen.”

#anne with an e #renew awae #awae #anne shirley cuthbert #marilla cuthbert #mathew cuthbert #jerry baynard #gilbert blythe #diana barry #cole mackenzie #sebastian lacroix #bash lacroix

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my-bated-breath · 4 years

Text

On an Immensely Popular Post

Disclaimer: What I’m writing here may not be completely accurate -- like most works of art, literature, and even STEM tend to be -- and as a new fan of ATLA, a few of the metas I publish may be obsolete or unintentionally insensitive. That being said, I like to believe that I can contribute something valuable to this fandom. In all my (real) metas, I wish to be as objective as possible and not rely on my biases, fanon, or common “knowledge” that may just be misconceptions. If anyone reading this finds something to be false or contrived, I am always welcome to constructive criticism. What I am not welcome to is senseless hate or bashing.

My first experiences with the ATLA fandom begun a long, long time ago, but the most recent and powerful revival of my love for ATLA started with me actually watching the show and soon after, with me falling into the endless abyss of ATLA metas on Tumblr. Sifting through the well-written analyses and the emotion-based rants had taught me a lot about critical thinking and the power of influence, so now I’d like to present a meta that critiques an extremely popular post with over 60,000 notes. And since it’s so popular, this is the part where I must make yet another disclaimer.

Disclaimer: I hold nothing against lesbians4sokka (whose name has now been changed to comradekatara). They have the right to share what they want, but since this particular post has become so influential that it’s still being reblogged regularly to this day, I believe it is within my right to criticize it - emphasis on “criticize,” which is different from “hate.”

Now that that’s out of the way, let us begin:

Lesbians4sokka/comradekatara covers 3 main subjects in their post, which I will quote/summarize below:

(1) Ma/iko: “...the entire foundation of mai and zuko’s relationship was built on how miserable they were together, and how they would just sit there and hate the world together— letting their misery fester as they enabled each other’s depression— and I think that’s really unfortunate because they would work so well as friends if they weren’t trying to make their dumpster fire of a relationship work.”

(2) Zutara: “similarly, what makes zuko and katara’s dynamic so compelling is that they share the same flaws, only as opposed to mai’s apathy and misery, it’s katara’s rage and guilt that zuko identifies with. they both share trauma over having lost their mothers, and both in a similar way (sacrificing themselves for them) and they both cope with their grief through rage, often misplaced… katara and zuko have a deep & profound friendship, but if they were to be in a relationship, they would only bring out the absolute worst in each other thru enabling each other’s rage and emotion-driven decision making.”

(3) Z/uk/ka: this pairing makes for a healthy and wholesome relationship because throughout the boiling rock, we see that “sokka and zuko make an excellent team, as they balance each other perfectly. sokka thinks big picture, and plans ahead, but zuko will charge into situations.” They inspire each other, they trust each other unconditionally, they become more open and supportive of each other, they share a lot of common interests and narrative parallels, and in general, just make each other happy (which could work both platonically and romantically).

As for my response: I’m sure many of you are expecting me to start to save the “best for last.” That assumption would be incorrect because I actually have the least to say about point 3.

I agree that Z/uk/ka can be a good relationship. Their dynamic is funny, playful, supportive, etc. etc. (there are so many positive adjectives I could use to describe their dynamic, the list could go on forever). And they could make a great couple.

…

What, did you expect more from me? That’s it, I’m done.

I’m not here to attack Z/uk/ka as a ship, because while I can never actively ship it (I’m a sad, narrow-minded exclusive shipper, always had been and always will be) I can objectively appreciate them as one. It’s points 1 and 2 I’m more concerned about.

Now, since we’ve already begun working backward, I’ll begin my critiques on point 2: I could write extensively about the parallels between Zuko and Katara, including but not limited to shared pain and a few shared flaws - and just a few, because their weaknesses diverge in many important places. However, since I’m trying to write as objectively as possible and since Zuko-Katara parallels have already been discussed to death, my analysis will focus elsewhere.

However, something from comradekatara’s post that I would first like to address is this-

[Zuko and Katara] both cope with their grief through rage, often misplaced. in the southern raiders, they both act deeply insensitively towards sokka by acting as if his grief over his mother’s death is somehow less valid simply because he is a lot quieter in his coping mechanisms and doesn’t project his rage & guilt onto everyone else.

- or rather, the idea that Zuko and Katara’s shared pain causes them to act insensitively towards Sokka (and though the post does not mention it, Aang as well).

(Note: these points have already been covered by countless metas before mine, so you can skip/skim this section to read a newer argument in the next section.)

Even ignoring the fact that the Southern Raiders had many out of character moments, Katara’s insensitivity towards Sokka is first and foremost a reaction against his insensitivity towards her.

_____

Dialogue from Season 3, Episode 16 “The Southern Raiders”:

Aang: Um ... and what exactly do you think this will accomplish?

Katara: [Shakes her head in dismay.] Ugh, I knew you wouldn't understand. [Begins to walk away.]

Aang: Wait! Stop! I do understand. You're feeling unbelievable pain and rage. How do you think I felt about the sandbenders when they stole Appa? How do you think I felt about the Fire Nation when I found out what happened to my people?

Zuko: She needs this, Aang. This is about getting closure and justice.

Aang: I don't think so. I think it's about getting revenge.

Katara: [Angrily.] Fine, maybe it is! Maybe that's what I need! Maybe that's what he deserves!

Aang: Katara, you sound like Jet.

Katara: It's not the same! Jet attacked the innocent. This man, he's a monster.

Sokka: Katara, she was my mother, too, but I think Aang might be right.

Katara: Then you didn't love her the way I did!

Sokka: [Hurt] Katara!

_____

While I believe that Aang’s principles of forgiveness are morally sound, the way he pushes his beliefs onto Katara undermines much of her grief. At first, Aang tries to relate to Katara’s experiences by comparing them to his own, but there is a forceful connotation to his dialogue that suggests that Aang considers himself to be the moral authority compared to Katara. Hence, Aang judges Katara (“I think it’s about getting revenge”) without trying to reach out and understand her, forgoing the empathetic common ground in favor of taking on the moral high ground.

Thus, when Sokka tells Katara, “she was my mother, too, but I think Aang might be right,” Sokka is not only saying that Katara should choose forgiveness, he is implying that Aang is the ultimate moral authority on this matter and that Katara should accept that. Moreover, similarly to Aang, Sokka’s opening line, “she was my mother, too,” had the potential to establish common ground between himself and Katara, but the added “but…” places Sokka on the moral high ground against her instead. Of course, when we remember that just two lines ago Aang equates Katara to Jet, Sokka agreeing with Aang seems even more thoughtless and unsympathetic.

So when Katara lashes out against Sokka, ostensibly “acting as if his grief over his mother’s death is somehow less valid simply because he is a lot quieter in his coping mechanisms and doesn’t project his rage & guilt onto everyone else,” it is important to note that Sokka undermines Katara’s louder, more visible way of grieving as well (though that discounts that for most of the show, Katara only uses her grief over her mother’s death to sympathize with others).

Moreover, Katara’s line, “then you didn't love her the way I did!” is hurtful, yes, but it is not necessarily equivalent to “you didn’t love her as much as I did.” Katara’s love for her mother is different from Sokka’s because her pain over her death is different -- after Kya’s passing, Katara had to carry the emotional burden of becoming a pseudo-mother to Sokka (see Sokka and Toph’s conversation in “The Runaway”), a burden that did not cease after she joined the GAang (see the entirety of “The Desert”). To Katara, Kya was not only her mother, but the representation of the childhood she lost and the sacrifice made to protect her life. Sokka simply does not have that same relationship with Kya.

I do not mean to say that Sokka and Aang unfairly taking on the moral authority in this situation means that this authority instead belongs to Katara (and Zuko) - “The Southern Raiders” is filled with questionable moments from all parties involved. However, TSR is an episode that delves into Katara (and Zuko)’s relationship with a mother’s sacrifice, so how Zuko and Katara respond to this specific trauma from their past does not dictate how they respond to painful circumstances in the present/future. Let’s see how this is true.

Sozin’s Comet, Part 1: The Phoenix King

No doubt Zuko and Katara felt some form of frustration upon Aang’s disappearance, so let’s see how they “[enabled] each other’s rage and emotion-driven decision making”:

Here, Katara and Zuko make a decision together that turns out to be calm, rational, and not at all emotionally-driven despite their mutual frustration and worry towards Aang.

Sozin’s Comet, Part 2: The Old Masters

Zuko holds immense pain and self-loathing over betraying Iroh, yet Zuko and Katara’s conversation does not enable/exacerbate negativity from any party involved (since Zuko often translates his grief into anger, and Katara was evidently angry at Zuko’s betrayal). Instead, their conversation is open, encouraging, and constructive.

(Note: this is where the review of points made by previous metas ends.)

Hence, to say that “[Zuko and Katara] would only bring out the absolute worst in each other [through] enabling each other’s rage and emotion-driven decision making” - when we are given in-canon examples of the opposite being true - would be a sweeping and inaccurate generalization.

But for the sake of argument let’s say that, hypothetically, Zuko and Katara’s relationship would fail because they only bring out the worst in each other. And here’s where the argument falls apart for me - Is the argument here that Zuko and Katara have an incredibly meaningful friendship yet somehow this “friendship” causes them to enable each other, thus encouraging each other’s worst flaws and regressing each other’s growth? Is a healthy friendship - much less a “deep and profound” one - not one where two individuals can learn from each other in positive ways and balance each other’s shortcomings?

Or is it something different we’re saying here? Are we saying that two individuals can have a “deep and profound” friendship and yet the moment their relationship shifts from platonic to romantic, they are terrible for each other?

While many significant platonic bonds are stunted when they become romantic, I still believe it to be common sense that some of the best romantic relationships stem from a platonic foundation. But since much of “common sense” on the internet sees that “sense” is nonsensical and “common” is a nicer way to refer to mob mentality, I have done my research to show how Zuko and Katara could have been an excellent case of a friends-to-lovers relationship.

An excerpt from my meta, “Research Shows that Zutara Would Have Been the Ideal Friends to Lovers Dynamic.” (give it a read if you want to see references to relationship-research and an overanalysis on diction/tone)

The reason why Zutara is framed as a “toxic and unhealthy” relationship is that their romance would be a classic example of the enemies-to-lovers trope, a trope which modern media has not been particularly kind to. However, when executed correctly, enemies-to-lovers can produce a healthy and loving relationship, frequently relying on friendship as an intermediate between the “enemy” and “lover” stages in the most well-executed versions of this trope. Meanwhile, the trope of friends-to-lovers is just as popular as enemies-to-lovers, though the specific dynamic required between two individuals to achieve this transition is not well-known. Recognizing this, Laura K. Guerrero and Paul A. Mongeau, both of whom are involved in relationship-related research as professors at Arizona State University, wrote a research paper on how friendships may transition into romantic relationships…

According to Guerrero and Mongeau, “...scholars have argued that intimacy is located in different types of interactions, ranging from sexual activity and physical contact to warm, cozy interactions that can occur between friends, family members, and lovers…” Guerrero and Mongeau then reference a relationship model where the initial stages (i.e. perceiving similarities, achieving rapport, and inducing self-disclosure) reflect platonic/romantic intimacy through communication while the latter stages (i.e. role-taking, achieving interpersonal role fit, and achieving dyadic crystallization) often see both individuals as achieving a higher level of intimacy that involves more self-awareness.

In the rest of my research-based meta I demonstrate how Zuko and Katara’s platonic interactions in the show fit into the stages of communicative intimacy (i.e. perceiving similarities, achieving rapport, and inducing self-disclosure) that Guerrero and Mongeau describe as being mutual between friendships and romances. As such, crossing the line between friends and more-than-friends most likely would not cause a dramatic shift in the Zutara dynamic since much of Zuko and Katara’s platonic intimacy easily translates into romantic intimacy. I’ll end off with another excerpt from my meta.

Excerpt from “Research Shows that Zutara Would Have Been the Ideal Friends to Lovers Dynamic.”

“...it would be remiss to simply dismiss the Zutara dynamic as one that would instantly become toxic should they pursue a romantic relationship.”

With that little thought in mind, let’s move onto point 3: an exploration of friendship, romance, and why toxicity is not exclusive to the latter.

Let’s start with what I agree with:

“The entire foundation of mai and zuko’s relationship was built on how miserable they were together, and how they would just sit there and hate the world together— letting their misery fester as they enabled each other’s depression...”

I’m not sure how necessary it is for me to elaborate on this point given that it’s already been accepted by comradekatara and perhaps 60,000+ other users on Tumblr (a gross exaggeration but this remains unimportant), but in her essay, “Zuko, Mai, and the Nature of True Intimacy,” Araeph contributes more nuance to the concept of Ma/iko and mutual misery, stating that,

Unfortunately for [Zuko and Mai’s] relationship, Mai is and will always be a pessimist—a character trait, not a character flaw, in her. The key difference lies in how Mai and Zuko use their negative feelings. When Zuko sinks into negativity, he gives up on any actions that will materially change his world for the better; Mai, on the other hand, can remain negative even at the height of her character development, and it does not impede her ability to act.

So while Mai enables Zuko’s depression, Zuko does not necessarily do the same for Mai. Nonetheless, throughout their relationship for the first half of season 3, neither of them communicate constructively or push each other to grow as people.

This may be the third disclaimer I’m making, but I first want to say I have nothing against Mai. However, I do have something against the idea that “[Mai and Zuko] would work so well as friends if they weren’t trying to make their dumpster fire of a relationship work.”

Their relationship is a dumpster fire, yes, but will the flames cease simply if the amount of intimacy in the relationship changes?

comradekatara state themselves that their entire romantic relationship is quite depressing - they are only able to connect through empty physical intimacy and mutual hatred of the world. Without that, there is little left for them to bond over. Once Zuko overcomes his conflicting morality and inaction from the first half of season 3, he becomes someone who is strongly guided by his principles and beliefs. However, for the entirety of the series, Mai is characterized by her moral apathy. To cite from Araeph again,

It is moral intimacy that is the last and worst omission for Mai and Zuko… Zuko’s struggle to find and follow his principles is the most central aspect of his character, yet it is a struggle Mai neither understands nor respects…

Lack of moral intimacy (not sharing the same core beliefs) is something that applies to both platonic and romantic bonds. Thus, just as transitioning from a meaningful friendship to a romance does not inherently create toxicity in a relationship, switching from a romance that exacerbates one (or both, depending on how you interpret it) party’s misery does not necessarily erase the preexisting negativity in a relationship - perhaps some of it may subside, sure, but as long both parties continue to fail at communicating and understanding each other, even their friendship seems bleak at best. In this case, Mai and Zuko may work well as conditional friends, or in other words, friends who are only friends when they have something to mutually be miserable over. And this tiptoes the line of speculation, but they could be a formidable political team. But unless the Ma/iko dynamic shifts drastically in the lovers-to-friends transition, I’m not sure if there’s much potential in a friendship between them.

In conclusion, there is a lot I don’t agree with from comradekatara’s post, but if there’s one takeaway I want to impart onto everyone who’s read this far, it’s this: crossing and uncrossing the line between platonic and romantic bonds is not always a transformative experience for the relationship, and the nature of human relationships is a complex spectrum -- not a light switch that can only be set between healthy and unhealthy.

Thank you all for reading!

#atla #atla meta #my bated breath analyzes #this is more pro-zukka than anti-zukka #but I will include neither in my tags #zutara #anti maiko #once again this is a critique #not a post meant to tear anyone or their views down #my bated breath's posts

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dynamicduoofstackie · 3 years

Note

Hey, maybe if you’re met with a shred of criticism, like on your recent Stackie post, don’t throw a hissy fit and delete all their replies 😂

I do receive criticism. When you like something that people aren't willing to acknowledge, you are bond to receive push back. I love a lot of pairings that are mostly fictional, Stackie the only real one, that aren't as popular as the mainstream pairings. So it is to be expected for people to not get why I might like it.

Reality tv shows, entertainment shows, entertainment blogs, entertainment magazines, social media, all of these outlets bread and butter is prying into celebrity lives and dissecting it for the willing masses pleasure. So me liking a potential romantic pairing just because it isn't the OTP of most people doesn't make me weird because I'm sure many people ship real relationships close at home or on screen. I mean why else would reality shows like the Bachelor and Bachelorette be so popular if viewers weren't tuning in ready to match real people with other real people. So there is that.

I'm not going to give people that simply bash me oxygen. Why bother answering or acknowledging what they wrote by keeping it up when it will only produce a vicious cycle of hate with no middle ground of understanding. That would be throwing a hissy fit. Me not responding, blocking the hater and if I do respond,, respond on my own terms is the adult thing to do.

Plus, it is not real criticism worth giving any light to if it doesn't at least acknowledge what the person did right and were they might have erred and need correction on. Starting your 'critique' out with 'sick, weirdo, creepy, etc.,' will make anybody shit down and ignore what wasn't but could have been helpful advise. People are willing to change if it saying bad is wrapped around something they do like about someone.

Same goes for reviews of anything from movies to books, to fanfics. No one normally keeps the bad reviews when advertising a movie or book. They cherry pick the good. Or if it is a fanfic are more energized to write or change something next chapter if it isn't all negative and is somewhat helpful. Even a teacher grades a paper with helpful hints instead of just saying something negative. So your words kind of miss their mark.

The fact that you are asking this much of me when you are ironically giving yourself an out by being anonymous is not lost on me.

#we are here #i don't care #i am not backing down #if you dont like it ignore it

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misterbitches · 3 years

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I ship muren and li cheng bc i only saw it through gifs then i watched this episode cos i was like im only starting this show if they kiss im waiting and they did and it was nice and i got so anxious that i was about to fucking vomit. I really like them together. The top/bottom shit is dumb and i hope if they must mention it they all build a bridge and get over it so they can switch cos who gives a shit. I didnt realize how large they all are like most “tall” men on tv are lying. But bc that kid is so thin and tall and the other one (idk the stepbrother) is huge too. Li cheng is shorter than them both but more ~manly~ but still short so why doesnt he take a DICK UP HIS BUTT XD since that’s all that fucking matters and there’s only 2 genders and 2 eays to have sex lmao so nothing else otherwise ur screwed

Hd a terrible past couple of weeks personally and because i keep seeing my peopl eget murdered and things ripped from us ^_____^ anyway here’s Some libertatrian communist dumb bitch discoars so i’ll tag it:

keep in mind these are my opinions’”” when i engage in discourse. I am not the end all be all and I don’t need you to agree. There’s some shit I am non-negotiable on but thsi is just exchanging of information. Any authoratative tone I take on comes from my beliefs, my life, my experiences, and what I choose to cultivate as a person and an artist. I dont have control over your feelings, you do. If it hurts you then either tell me the issue and be PRECISE about it, understand that context matters which is why i type so much in engagement, and do not fucking lie or misconstrue my words. Do not call me western ever in your life either. I am a black-american. I have adhd and bc i am a black woman if ur automatically thinking im brolic i am accepting money in my paypal for ur wellbeing to get me to shut the fuck up.Thanks.

The stepbrothers storyline is stupid and lazy writing. I really want to counter people that say it’s written well and that it’s interesting because it isn’t. Even if it was illicit and fucked we can write a story out about this. Let’s rethink what they could have done shall we:

- become stepbrothers at about 16 and their parents mismanage the relationship and they fail in trying to get an integrated family together (this is what happened in the #iconic transit girls and that was fuckin’ weird but hey dude guess what we watched it and it was weird but not unethical and we know one is like 19 and the other is 21 and a girl so it’s like wow you avoided so much and handled their stepsister story very…….um lightly given the end lmao but it was there and people had AGENCY)

-OR you realize that freak is obsessed with him and then he realizes it and is like “bitch i swear to god” and in typical shtity trope BL fashion they can find a way from obsession, to loss and independence when you lose your obsession, to “love” if they choose

- have the fucked up shit but make it clear what the issues are and you literally cannot write your way out of it so do not try

But why can’t fucked up things be shown? Also this is realistic.

0. Well according to you but no one said that they can’t. So that’s on your interpretation of critique (that is, again, not bullying or harassment.) They can, i just gave plenty of scenarios in which it is affective and not just annoying to witness, trope-y, and frankly ridiculous and offensive. Sorry! They don’t do it well. You can come up with alternatives too. See #2 btw.

1. No it isn’t doing a good job of reflecting life because life has consequences. The exaggeration in drama doesn’t mean the arc shouldn’t be there. Almost always things that aren’t heavy with the message or meant to be sobering in a deep way are COMPELLING. The realism is the basis for art because we are human. This is not the way real humans act.

Someone said Tharn Type was mature and I had to laugh because no, no one acts that way and is “in love” if they act that way that means they fucking hate each other and they’re immature and frankly it’s just not that interesting for many of us to watch because the dramatization of the “realism” is fucking bonkers. That was such poor writing it is unbelievable and someone has the audacityt o say it’s how real adults act. Fucking murder me if I’m with someone for 7 years and we break up over a miscommunication and for some reason I am not as horny as my always horny boyfriend. The fuck? What kind of lives do you lead? Either you are not an adult or you are an adult who needs therapy.

I also hear the “realistic” argument but then people try and temper it with “but also it’s fiction.” What do you think fiction is? Why do you think filmmaking exists? Number one, it’s propaganda in the sense that you want others to buy into your presentation and see what you see. That means that the creators are telling people and influencing them WITH ART BECAUSE THAT’S WHAT IT IS about their feelings around a situation. That’s why it is imperative to be responsible as a filmmaker and artist and underline the deepness of creepiness if that’s what they want. If they want to relay that rape sometimes ok and psychos are crazy so they get boy (??!?!?!? BITCH?) then they achieved it with no innovative information. We know people get raped bc we are human beings and many of us live with that fear. You know, being the target demo and all. And bc BL loves that trope it’s rape fantasy peddled to young people and women. Just like shitty wattpad fics or NYT best sellers. Hooray, what now? Or are you trying to purport that this isn’t glorified fanfiction? Which it literally is

2. This is the issue with these shows. No one is saying that fucked up shit cannot be shown. There’s a film about a woman who is raped and she falls in love with her rapist (because he was masked but i think we find out later that she knows. Binoche is in it.) I have no desire for that film—i think it’s by a man and i extra dont care—but I hear it’s sort of powerful for many. I heard it was a good film. But the act itself is always eschewed and the conflict comes from how fucking ridiculous it is especially finding out that she knows. The power imbalance adn the possibility. They may not have handled it in a way I would have cared for but it was there.

There’s simply no imagination because these people do not care that much and aren’t great writers and filmmakers because they simply do not have to be. Sorry.

The industry doesn’t rely on the best they rely on efficiency (this is everywhere.) You can tell by the camera angles, the editing, the camera itself (idk if it is multicam but the flatness is typical soap flatness without the glowboxes to soften their faces.) Simple constant lighting. Now the surroundings are mostly beautiful. But even to some of the costumes. And those edits are abysmal, some of that camera work.

So with all that said even with the couple I extremely enjoy I see its (H4) faults. Add into that a lazily thrown together “shocking” love and if they are trying to get us to feel a type of way about its sexiness they fail. This is why movies like 50sog, 365 days, etc aren’t enjoyable to people because it’s fucking strange situations that they dont want to entangle or make enjoyable to viewers across the board. They know what people will take. It’s just that bitch what are we here for if even the sexiness isn’t there for ur stupid story.

At least with that teenager and 30 yr old man in MODC (which i do not love but i like them in theory if it wasnt totally repulsive to me and also if it was developed in a way that was good TO ME) they had their, er, “sex appeal” i talk about this as well the main couple in MODC to me, visually, was a miss. Not bc whatshisface was small and stuff but bc he was so sickly and they needed that to propel the story but it was just not appealing given how the story progressed. A missed opportunity in tying the two together besides making him look waif-y and sickly only to have the “did ur mom die in a car crash? No, cancer” type of move in not another teen movie. But the opposite. And not funny. Wayne tho????? GORL. Eggs. Cracked.

fandoms have a very warped sense of harrassment and discourse.

Most fandoms have harassers who are “protecting” the cast and crew who don’t need their protection (or maybe the crew does since they probably dont get paid well but why the fuck would anyone care about that lol) but very few have the people who have concerns or massive critique about the show are not going to be “bullying.”

If people are saying “if you like xyz, u suck” then sure it may suck for you to see but who fucking cares. Either talk to the person or don’t be friends with them. That is not bullying or harrassment. Things that are shitty get criticized. Fuck, things that aren’t shitty don’t. Get away from this idea of cancel culture and people misunderstanding the story. We have the ability to.

Think beyond your noses of personal preference. You don’t have to convince people of what you believe. Discussing it is good but critique is not bullying, harrassment, or hate. Neither is fucking roasting shit because even this shit I like (manner of death lets say) deserves it. Art is meant to be critiqued and if you dont fucking like the bullshit people make then say it. They know stupid stories like this are scandalous and they don’t give a shit in how to present them.

And guess what? You won’t like everybody. Many people can’t stand me i’m sure. Oh well. I mean frankly I don’t like that and I feel very unsettled when I don’t feel understood. That’s ok! I have to temper it. Sometimes calm myself down. I won’t get anything and everything I want. And you won’t like every opinion and sometimes it’s like “man am i a dummy?” But the part of growing up is fucking maanging that and beng honest about “bashing and harrassment” and “bullying” and growing up. Yuo can like what you want the “let people like what they want thing” is so fucking juvenile and THAT is not the real world. Which is probably why so many people feel that way, they dont want to live in the real world. Unfortunately, you do.

Think beyond our noses of personal preference and what we feel emotionally in conjunction with others. You don’t have to convince people of what you believe. And you can say things that you believe to be true but it doesn’t make them so or maybe it isn’t received that way to people. And many times we learn new things in the discussions “oh shit i didn’t see it that way” right? Discussing it is good but critique is not bullying, harrassment, or hate. Neither is fucking roasting shit because even this shit I like (manner of death lets say) deserves it. Art is meant to be critiqued and if you dont fucking like the bullshit people make then say it. They know stupid stories like this are scandalous and they don’t give a shit in how to present them. Usually the “opposition” in these situations aren’t the popular beliefs that permeate through society. Trust me lmao

Antiblackness

Antiblackness is a thing. It permeates everywhere. It permeates in this genre and it permeates in fandom. Get it the fuck together. Also do not conflate cultural relativism with being repsectful. They are not barbarians, they are smart human beings either making work or deciding to. We all have diff cultures but we have fucking sense in what is respectful and not. And if we don’t we fucking learn. You cannot excuse things and say “oh culture” when you have 0 idea of that culture or actual people who are radical etc and are fighting against it. Additionally the word westerner is an ignorant term when referring to people in the US or UK who are black. Because we are not. We extend sympathy to other groups and empathy since we know so there is no inherent power imbalance between a black viewer and their subject. Don’t suggest that because it’s wrong and ahistorical and contextless.

FIRST the fallacy of representation as freedom makes people fucking complacent, individualistic, and doesn’t let them think critically. Consumption and discourse around consumption is not helping material conditions of the marginalized communities in your home, the black ones who are ignored, those intersectionalized in these communities. Groups talk about art and what it means for them outside of just what we see and because we also don’t have access to a bunch of Thai reviews or what movements or going on we are less likely to know if we don’t FUCKING SEARCH for it. Because art is constant...which leads me to....

Representation is difficult. It matters and it doesn’t.

Tthese shows are not meant to overturn the LGBTQ+ community.

There are queer filmmakers and artists in these countries. Deep illustrious film careers or even TV that is moving and deliberate. We can even see it with the dude from “your name engraved” in their short series he was in beforehand. BL is no wa pejorative because it is simply not “qu**r” storytelling whatever that means. But know it has always existed everywhere and there are also out artists or radical artists in all these countries who do no respect mediums that are cash-grabs and poorly made.

ex: As much as “Like in the Movies” sort of isnt for me and is a bit hamfisted you can tell how much love goes into that. Love of the characters, acting, and message. Yes it’s cringey to see some of the lines (like very tbh subtlety wasnt exactly their strong suit) and yea naming them after lenin and marx is just 0ihgoaudgijposkagjihou BUT GUESS WHAT? THEY FUCKING DID IT. THEY TRIED. And class was a large component as well bc u cant fuckin ignore it. The show is aware of the machinations in its world as a show but also in the philippines and for a fuckin reason. And duatarte? Loooooooool so like yea not so sure bl makes him love his ppl but the show isnt trying to do that

It’s not a transgressive genre and it has no reason to be. No ethical anything under the way we live it’s just trying your fucking best to be. That’s it. They serve societal ills and capital’s purposes. Which is fine but it is not revolutionary.

These countries in SEA or even SA do not have as big budget for even mainstream dramas—though things are changing and that’s bc REVENUE like revenue from kpop is fucking huge for SK and again so much about that is bc of what happened in their history from japanese imperialism to WWII to the US—so for “queer” stuff it is sort of now important to make that an export and it sure is one. Not only globally or to the west but a lot of these places make their money within asia (duh!) outside of their countries. OBVIOUSLY. so BL is a way to output and gain money. The thing is, it doesnt seem to be put back into the industry at all. For people in all these countries to make works that aren’t for mainstream or wont reach as many people there’s a difference between trying and just shoving shit in your face and going here it’s gay you like it right? But dont antagonize the inherent patriarchal nature of BL.

Another thing: did you guys know thailand was never colonized? You should look it up. There’s little hints of things in ITSAY to represent french influence still. Isnt that fascinating? Find out why. It’s certainly interesting that the representation, though damaging and dubious many times and also incorrect like any media, is huge in asia and this isnt a commodity here (the US) exactly. A lot of that has to do with colonial ideas of gender of which I am sure. But listen………lmao

Sometimes people dont give a shit. And it very much shows. Here is the thing once again. GOOD TRANSGRESSIVE WORK exists.

Een within the capitalist Bs paradigm or you can see people trying (I can sort of applaud parts of lovely writer) also queer media has always existed everywhere the reason you don’t know about it is because it gets takena nd commodified into a mainstream product. We hvae little incentive, particularly if we are not fans of cinema or art in gen, to search fror others when the output is right here. Being dictated by others and the state and who will give you money. No longer an effort of a cast and crew who want to convey things. But google [any country] independent cinema, radical cinema, queer radical cinema, or even retrospectives on the cinema and rethinking what is queer and radical in film. What if we took that, diluted it, got rid of the creators who put themselves through all the work, ignroe al the nuances and do……………….two actors who are conventionally attractive with no chemistry making out.

It’s the same here lets say daniel kaluuya winning the oscar for the film about the BPP. I heard it was okay and not too offensive but it still isnt’ enough. It still isn’t like hwood isn’t trash, nnati black, misogynistic towards BW and women, and all that other shit. It was pushy but it can’t be enough where we are. Black KKKlansmen i think won an oscar, by circumstance i fuckin hate these award shows they mean nothing, and i like the film a lot but he has his misogynoir still resting in his films even if it is poignant. And it was a film that honestly wasn’t really made for black people. And should all art be a response to direct trauma or trying to make ourselves palatable when we’re just human?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and it’s importance (capitalism) but also sorta individual responsibility

Considering a lot of these actors are rich and then just dip that’s another problem. Mainstream isn’t what sustains marginalized art ever. It doesn’t change in the vast ways we think it does. What changes is the people of these groups pushing, fighting, forcing and then capitalism trying to make it work under capitalism. It will not. It cannot.

This is why artists and labels often don’t mix or you see people like Sonic Youth doing whatever they want and pissing off their label but making them give them money. Same with Nirvana. Vince Staples. The thing is they can fight and make good shit but what capitalism helps people….not care? They don’t respect the audience? We’re getting those returns on poor executed product placement, lighting, editing, framing, fucking acting. And you surewon’t see mixed black asians in these shows. WHY R U is the oNLY one i have seen it in and he just disappears (but that was pretty cool.) so who the fuck is this representing? And before you start: asian countries are not homogenous the way we believe them to be. There are marginalized communities outside of even mixed people that are harmed. So you can skrrt cause on that one: you’re wrong buddy. But it gives us the IDEA of a paradise which is what they NEED.With representation and visibility comes consequence and responsibility as artists. What it allows them to do is coast and not think complexly because why should they; it’s mostly the fantasies of some older woman who probably has money and much less interaction with the world. It’s bonkers. And what that allows even further is for them to say YOU ARE THE THING THAT YOU CONSUME and the THING THAT YOU CONSUME IS YOURS. It is not, it is not your identity, form a close bond but figure it the fuck out. Especially for adults who are hellbent on twisting their minds into pretzels and can’t acknowledge what’s just laziness in art and not giving a fucking shit. Truly.

There’s damage that has been done from Parasite as he was supported by CJE&M and the bullshit obsession america had and eveyrone’s poor interpretation of it if they are rich. BJH is a socialist and he is a filmmaker. He has made films that are outstanding and cost a lot of money. But now a fear for indie filmmakers is just not being able to raise that much or have that much attention. Getting funding that helps them instead of expecting the Next Big Thing that is a fad because capitalism is trash. Yes this funneling of money is absolutely harmful to us artists. Even buying in is strategic. Additionally, that film is probs one of the most radical films to have that wide release and accolade (unlike “Sorry to Bother You” which i have a lot of thoughts about. One being that asian exports are acceptable but black ones are not. This is an overall art critique and global media critique. Blackness is removed, not respected.) However, filmmaking isn’t green, it can’t be socialist, and it’s a lot of work. They used tons and tons and TONS of water to do a huge beautiful feat but we still know there is a cost. We have to figure that out because it shouldn’t be. It doesn’t go back into the crew’s pockets the way it should and the work becomes that of the director’s and actors solely. It’s fucking hard. We have to do our part but it doesn’t mean we are doing it perfectly. We just have to try to do better. So does BJH cos he needs to not be a misogynist but anyways i digress.

additionally and this is something some users fail to understand: people in the media sphere generally have fucking money. I went to film school that was international with super fucking rich kids. Taiwanese kids, kids from south asia, china, thailand. They had money. No not upper middle class money, not “rich” money, not some paltry 1m that’s chump change. Fucking money. Fucking RICH-RICH. MILLIONAIRES. BILLIONAIRES. WHICH IS DISGUSTING MIGHT I ADD. The domestic people didn’t have the money for school (in the UK) and i am in a massive amount of debt like every other black student that went there. You do not understand how much money is needed to survive so people who turn to these crew positions even casting etc need this fucking money usually. OKAY. A lot of the people that do well in these dumb shows or even on a larger scale HAVE MONEY. The reason these industries are small and struggling is because of lack of people and lack of resources to independent shit because oh gee it takes money to make things.

Why should I try? Well you don’t have to really if you have money or a name. Yet...

We can tell when like those Tik Tok shows or DCOMs dont give a shit (anymore.) You know how frustrated we get when content for young people is garbage? Well, see, BL is literally that under that system. Occasionally we will get something good now but there is virtually no need in any sector in the world at this point to truly figure out how to make it better and what to do to enhance artistic literacy, outreach, teaching people new things, getting people from these communities there and having true realistic says. Art and culture is IMPERATIVE TO WORLD LIBERATION but not when it is so stiffly trying to bend to capital’s idea of progressiveness. No. Neoliberalism. No.

That’s why in a way ITSAY is a huge feat; it takes from films etc and they clearly had money (the actors rae rich too which….lmaooooo j’aime pas) but it was a respected fucking script, acting was important, blocking, framing. There’s very little to critique as a visual medium for that because I understand what they are trying to do, their market is going to be mostly young girls, but they RESPECT THE FUCKING AUDIENCE. And guess what guys? You can make money from it!!!! WOAH! Since that may be the only goal which is disgusting and repulsive.

HOWEVER AND THIS IS WHAT IS SAD: itsay is an ex of a great show however knowing the actors backgrounds and the pseudo trouble it stirred when they weren’t supporting people protesting against the coup in the summer it really put a damper on my enjoyment. And this is how we can see that:

a) it’s honestly just a show and a good one but b) now what?

These kids (actors, who are like idk 19? 20?) are rich and not saying anything while countless actors, who were filming, did. Even tul who has $$$$ and the thing is the protesting against the coup legitimately attacks the rich. As it should. The protests going on were cries for help, against a dictatorship and fucking coup, asking people to get fucking help for covid, having kids be able to live. There’s a mini on VICE about this and it probably doesnt go too in depth but there’s a kid in there who talks about his friends getting into drugs and how he just wants to make music, have fun, skateboard. And it’s harrowing to see. This is a direct example of what these things do and don’t do. Yea we know a good show is here, we know growing up and slice of life, we know this is a bit of escapism and idealism but the idealism is reflected in the way these actors also choose to live their lives. So what progress? To who? For who? How is this helping me? What purpose does it serve? I say ITSAY serves its purpose as a piece and a glimpse into possibility of growing up but i do not say it antagonizes a broader issue that needs to be relevant in some sense but simply is not. It’s very singleminded and, well, it’s sort of like “besides my sexuality, what do i have to worry about?” But for real humans like....a lot. I do not respect their decision at all.

Why can’t we do our jobs and make something decent and respect our audience? No time, gotta make that sweet sweet sweet cash baybee. Look how progressive we are! Don’t look at history and material conditions. Thanks in advance, management.

History 4 does not have that respect. Many of these shows do not. Sometimes we hit good, sometimes we don’t. But in the end we cannot settle. And I won’t. If I am critiquing something I will not be shy and if I am meant to enjoy something as escapism then these shows NEED to highlight that and it’s rare sometimes (the best twins is a good reminder like that show is bad but man do i Brain Empty when i turn it on and i like that and there’s not much in it that makes me want to kill myself from annoyance but there are transphobic jokes i dont love however the whole show is a comedy about this dude’s crazy homophobic sister and she is constantly positioned as wrong and they talk about the aforementioned trans women as the actor was in drag. Interesting that they can manage that, huh?)

Oh btw.....taiwan has a very complicated history but ignore all the bad stuff it’s good now you can kinda sorta get married and stuff. KMT? You know how i learned that? I care about human beings and read about it lmao. I am not Taiwanese and look at that. So now I have historical and DIALECTICAL~**~*~****~*~*~ context so i can judge it as an artist, a black woman from america, and from the knowledge i have to pick up on their history to see if this fits into a broader picture besides the micro-one of sexuality on an individualized level. And this is kinda where it comes full circle: these shows are not you, you are not them, they do not exist in a vacuum because nothing does. The failure to critique now means continuing on as it has and it will still do so. History and time are not linear in the sense we think it is. Someitmes things are better, sometimes things feel more austere. We are not living under liberation though and these shows are not going to do so. So they are not US nor are they for a nebulous “us” of which the groups are all fractured and have diff opinions anyway (my opinion as a black american is going to vary from an asian woman’s say and that could really clash and i do not feel solidarity with all those in every community i am for several reasons.)

Final thots that have taken up my time and the only thing i actually wanted to write but got distracted:

Anyway my dissertation is that I ilke Muren and LiCheng a lot a lot and i like how cute they are and how truly dumb li cheng is. This is an example of mostly good writing, decent actors, nice chemistry, and sort of a calmness to them. And I super enjoy how Muren is pretty forward with LC in the sense that being together is like very important to truly be together. When he was like “no i didnt forget!” Or when LC asked him something in the office I forget it was 6 am and again i almost threw up and muren nodded and then LC leaned on him. Very cute. I want more of them tho i may have to skip that othre couple (the cameo the ones from MODC) but omfg the younger one HIS HAIR GREW SO MUCH HE LOOKS SO MATURE AND CUTE OMFGIJ0HUG9SAOGIJPKOAGJSIOHUAGIJP hahhaha the one good thing i will say about THEM.idk how old the actor is i figure he was young idk it makes me happy to see him he’s very cute. I hope he’s in something i can watch and not gag at. Is he hot? Who knows but he is a cutie!!

Anyway muren and lc have a good thing going it’s nice to watch ho\pe they dont fuck it up but im truly a sucker for some true finds 2 luvas i think some user on her\e was like i’m not a fan of friends ot lovers bc it doesn’t seem like they’re actually friends and maybe they were referring to this show idk. But it made me think and it was a very good observation. So i think they are friends and also luvrs <3

#history 4 #history 4: close to you #i told sunset about you #a thot #tharntype #lovely writer #bl fandom #idk #lol #long

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lunapwrites · 3 years

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I got on my soapbox about discourse surrounding the HP series as source material, and to a lesser extent the fandom spaces I've found myself in. Actual dissertation under the break.

I am in a very strange subset of the HP community I think, in that while I have been engaging with the source material since I was 12, I didn't really interact much with other fans in any meaningful way until 2020. So there's all these communities that have existed for years, and a whole-ass culture around it and like... I am astounded by all the discourse and drama that unfolds, and ship wars baffle me as a concept. I've been fortunate in that I've found some spaces that don't tolerate bashing and drama to the extent that other spaces do. But there's been one thing I've been seeing a lot of recently that I think I need to make my position clear on. Not that I think this ultimately matters, but it may matter to you (faceless person reading this post) so I'll just state for the record, so that you can make an informed choice about whether you feel comfortable engaging with the content that I create.

I do subscribe to death of the author, by which I mean that I believe that the meaning and value of the text resides solely in how we as readers engage with the text as it is written. If I have an argument to make about something that I see, I pull solely from the text and draw my own conclusions, but I do not consider the author and her views as I am reading. HOWEVER, because I do also read critically, I am aware that any amount of deep reading reveals the same problematic elements and biases within the text as exist within the author herself. So yes, the series as it exists on its face is problematic as hell, and contains a lot of really damaging messaging that I no doubt internalized to some extent as a child.

I do not agree with anyone who thinks that the original material is God's gift to writing — it's not. It is in fact downright awful at times. The scene when Hermione lights Snape on fire in book one, while hilarious, was an instance of head-hopping that should have been caught and addressed. There's multiple infodumps thinly disguised as dramatic monologues (looking at you, Remus!!) Then there was the portkey conundrum and other such plotholes. The gratuitous overuse of Dumbledore ex Machina. Etc, etc, etc. The point is, it's even heavily flawed from a writing standpoint. BUT the world that was created has enough wiggle room that I can make something that makes sense to me out of it.

When I write fanfiction, I am doing so to work through my own thoughts and feelings on things. The HP-verse is one with which I am familiar and comfortable, and therefore it is something that I feel safe manipulating (thanks, anxiety!) So I can write about my feelings on class struggles, and about privilege, and about the criminal justice system, and about gender and sexuality, and mental health, and about familial relationships, and I can do so in a way that is a direct critique of the source material. Could I just write something original? Probably. But I'm not doing this to make something new. I'm just processing the world and my own evolving place in it, and having something static and familiar that already exists within which I can unpack all of this is immensely helpful to me. This is for me; y'all are just along for the ride... though I do appreciate those of you who are enjoying where we're going. Like any good roadtrip, it can be way more fun with friends.

This is way more discourse than I really intended on... but I guess the main thing that really got to me is that while I absolutely support engaging with text critically, I do not like this whole concept of calling everything that touches HP shitty just because the source is shitty. There is still value in problematic texts, even if that value is just in the reader's response to it. And fanfiction, good or bad, is a response to the text.

#hp #discourse #fanfiction #lp talks #i have thoughts #clearly

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asiryn · 4 years

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Hi I hope you dont mind me ranting to you, Idk who else to talk to bt I saw some of your anti sokai posts and I thought maybe you may understand me. I'm literally so sick of sokai stans defending the shit out of their ship when you literally say you dont like the ship. ah ??? (p1)

(p2) I don’t like kairi tbh bt thats -MY- opinion ?? I get so pissed off when they keep trying to defend her n making me look like a monster for “hurting” their precious girl. Makes me hate kairi evn more tbh

Hey there, I don’t mind at all!! (sorry this is such a late reply, but so it goes with disability ://) Sometimes you just need to let the salt flow a bit, and I totally understand feeling isolated in situations like this. And you’re welcome to stop by here any time! (just, you know…..be aware that it may take me a while to be able to respond, but i promise i will do my utmost to get there eventually XDD)

Shipping is such a tricky thing to navigate sometimes, bc like….I both do and do not get SoKai shippers, in particular. Bc on the one hand, I absolutely do get feeling defensive of your ship, and sometimes you’re just plain not in the mood to want to hear criticism, and just want to sit with whatever joy you can get from your ships. I can respect that, bc I get those urges too from time to time. But on the other hand…..idk, maybe it’s just bc I’m a pretty analytical person by nature, and no matter how much I may love a particular thing, I am absolutely going to critique the shit out of it, and call it out if I think it did something wrong or could do better, so I don’t really get it when ppl are in denial about the presence of flaws in whatever the Thing is. And on a fundamental level, I just believe that criticism isn’t the same thing as bashing, and it’s not me hating on the Thing by saying that it could do better, you know?

But yeah…..the more ppl double down on it, the saltier I get, ngl XDD Personally, I wouldn’t say that I hate SoKai itself, or Kairi, but I do absolutely hate the writing that’s been inflicted upon them, and am just…….forever baffled by it, bc it’s like the writers can give at least decent writing to literally anyone in this goddamn series except for Kairi, and I do not fucking understand what their damage is with this, lmaooo.

But yeah, diehard Stans of anything are typically annoying to deal with, and the idea that you’re “hurting” Kairi by not liking her is pretty ridiculous. I mean, of all the characters, Namine’s probably the one I’d “Stan” the most, but you know what? If you don’t like her, fine by me! I’m not gonna lose sleep over it, and ppl just have different preferences, and that’s okay. And I think it’s perfectly valid if all this terrible writing has forever put you off Kairi and SoKai. God knows that, as it stands, canon SoKai has kinda ascended to the level of a NOTP for me now, not bc I hate either of them, but bc I’m just filled with so much frustration about how much of a disservice the writers have done to both of their characters and their relationship, and I’m furious bc it could have been SO EASY to fix this, and that they’ve literally squandered nearly every opportunity for it. >_> (ftr, i’m still okay with them in fanfic when there’s decent writing and it’s a full sorikai polyamorous ship XP) But that’s me, and I can absolutely see why other ppl are completely done with it all, bc frankly, the writers haven’t exactly given much in the way of trust that things will improve in the future (tho if melody of memory is truly a kairi-centric game, then i do have the tiniest sprig of hope for it, even if it’s only the tiniest of steps; and if we are indeed getting a kh anime, then depending on how willing they are to deviate from game canon, then i have a seed of hope for that as well). In any case, I think being able to recognize and be vocal about flaws as consumers is never a bad thing, and the sooner that fandom can learn the difference between bashing and genuine critique, the better. (also, you can still totally like flawed things ppl!!! having flaws isn’t the end of the world!!! besides, what do we gain by refusing to be honest about it?? you’ll eventually suffocate under all that sand XP)

(also, pro-tip to all shippers: dog piling on anyone is never going to work as a way to endear them to your ship, and really is only going to make them resent it and you even more, so pls stop doing it /end psa XP)

tl;dr: you’re 100% valid, and if you need a space to rant, I’m always here!! :)

#anti sokai #kh salt #anti kairi #long post #ask kiryn #criticism #writing critique #writing criticism #anon #kh #kingdom hearts #sora #kairi #shipping #(i tagged the anti kairi just in case....)

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theenjoninecollective · 4 years

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Hey, I'm just asking this out of interest because I want to understand other people's thoughts. So I don't mean to be rude or anything, ship whatever you want. But why did you choose to ship enjonine over enjoltaire, as the later is such a popular one?

Mod @viridescentlights

Is this your way of flirting, hmm? If it was, it’s not working the way you want it. That aside, you say you want to understand and that it’s out of interest, but if it was, why the question at the end? That’s downright condescending. Simply put, your ask never meant to respect our opinions, in the end. In what way does this benefit you at all, hmm? I ask this because the timing of this ask, though given in January, is suspect. Fandom activity in Les Mis has been quite low, but it always has been given the fluctuating interest of people towards it. Furthermore, there are different factions in the group, and I’ve observed that your group is very active. So why bother us, when your group has enough fan art, fanfic, and whatnot? We’re busy enjoying on our own. It does not matter if it’s popular because that is our interest. Unless you want another fic war because you’re bored? Pfft. You could’ve asked in a better way, you know? We could’ve organized a sort of fic exchange and whatnot! Instead you go ride on your high horse and be demeaning. It’s annoying already.

So, if you want an exchange, just let us know, mate. It’s not that hard to do. Plus, it’s fun. I’ve been able to do one with a good friend who ships enjoltaire. Why destroy when we can make art, mate? Let this be our enemies-to-friends-to-maybe-partners story, yeah? Haha. But seriously. Do not do this rude ask again.

Anyway, I’ll let my friend do the nuanced discussion. Ta.

Mod @decembersiris:

Just because a ship is popular that does not mean I’m going to ship it. Often times now most of my ships are not the popular ones because in the fandoms I am in, the more popular ones end up being really toxic, I have found. And this includes Les Miserables and the enjoltaire ship as well.

Why I don’t ship enjoltaire: the ship itself

I have watched the musical and read the book. I have also watched multiple films and TV series such as the 2012 movie and the French 2000 miniseries. Of course there are more out there and more that I have watched but I’m not going to go into detail, because the point is that I am well reversed in the mediums of the story itself. And in all that I have watched and the book that I have read, the ship does not appeal to me. In the book, it is explicitly said that Enjolras hates Grantaire. And that immediately puts me off against the ship because why would I ship a couple where one of them completely hates the partner. That does not tickle my fancy, regardless if Grantaire loves him. I understand that there are multiple Greek references to homosexual couples to represent Enjolras and Grantaire, but frankly, I don’t care. And I’m allowed to not care. For me, just because there is symbolism, that does not mean the ship is without a doubt canon. Because as Hugo wrote, regardless of the symbolism, Enjolras hates him.

As some enjoltaire shippers throw at enjonine shippers, that we are homophobic because it is written in the book Enjolras has not interest in women. Yep, I understand that that is there. However the way Hugo shapes this information leaves a lot to be interpreted. Enjolras may not be interested in women RIGHT NOW because he’s so focused on his revolution. That is very possible and very real, that he may not want to establish a relationship because he knows what is at risk, that pursuing a relationship will only lead to further tragedy because he knows what he is doing is putting his life at risk. The way I interpret this sentence though is that he is not interested right now because of the revolution and also because Enjolras, to me, is asexual. Just because he isn’t interested in women DOES NOT MEAN (and many enjoltaire shippers willfully ignore this point) he is interested in men. Enjolras could very well be asexual and not interested in anyone at all.

As for the musical, I appreciate the friends dynamic and I enjoy the interactions they have. But for me, that is not enough for me to ship them. Often times friendships and especially male friendships are default labeled as homosexual which to me is erasure of genuine male friendships which isn’t right. So I appreciate the friendship between them, but that isn’t enough for me to ship them.

Why I don’t ship enjoltaire: the shippers

A huge reason I do not ship enjoltaire has to do with the shippers. At first I could tolerate the shippers but as they became more and more harassing of pretty much the smallest ship in the Les Mis fandom, I began to get pretty frustrated with them. Which resulted in my hatred of the ship as well. Granted, not all enjoltaire shippers are intolerant fucks, but a lot love to overstep their boundaries. They, for some reason, cannot stay in their lane, and continuously harass enjonine shippers and infiltrate the enjonine tag with their bullshit. It’s almost as if they’re so insecure because not everyone ride or dies with their ship that they have to go and ridicule the enjonine shippers. And they frame in the guise of “enjonine shippers are homophobes!” and cry about it in our tag. Calling us homophobes just because we don’t ship their ship is incredibly ludicrous because shipping is FUN and HARMLESS. I don’t care what you ship as long as you stay in your lane and don’t try to force your ship onto others! Those who can’t differentiate between real life and fiction and real life and shipping need to take a step back and reevaluate their lives.

I think it’s funny because many enjoltaire shippers call us queer erasure in an attempt to come off as “woke” which is quite hypocritical on their part because they know that many of us enjonine shippers either view Enjolras as bisexual or asexual. For them to call us that, to me, shows just how ignorant and pigheaded they are; they are fake woke, bashing us for not believing what they do when people are allowed to have different opinions. They’re the ones blatantly ignoring the possibility that Enjolras is asexual or bisexual or even both which, I could turn onto them and call them acephobes and biphobes. But I don’t go to their tag and post a plethora of reason as to why I hate enjoltaire and call them acephobes and biphobes.

Regardless of whether or not enjoltaire is implied in the text, that does not mean I have to ship it either! The ship does not appeal to me. Even if they frickin kissed in canon, the ship would not appeal to me. Victor Hugo could rise from the grave and scream that Enjolras and Grantaire fucked and I would not care. I would not ship them because I don’t like them! For some reason, enjoltaire shippers have their heads so far up their asses, demanding we ship their ship because it’s “canon” through symbolism. They critique us for “not have comprehension skills of the book” but guess what, there are so many people who don’t ship canon! There is nothing wrong with that! And enjoltaire isn’t even confirmed as canon! As far as I’m concerned, it’s all headcanon because nothing confirms a solid relationship. Symbolism can be interpreted. The great thing about literature is that everything is up for interpretation and not everyone has to believe the same thing. There are so many ships out there that go against canon but for some reason enjoltaire shippers think they should get a free pass and everyone needs to ship their ship because their ship is homosexual. But that’s not how fandoms work. Enjoltaire shippers do not have the right to ridicule enjonine or any other ship just because they think they’re more woke than others for shipping a gay couple.

There was a point where I came close to multishipping Enjolras with Grantaire as well as with Éponine but that concept sank so quick. It’s because of intolerable enjoltaire shippers that I refuse to ship Enjolras with Grantaire and ship him with Éponine even harder.

Why I ship enjonine

In all the different mediums of consuming Les Miserables, I always found myself absolutely adoring Éponine and that’s because I found myself relating to her more than any other character in Les Mis. She is an endearing character with many flaws, feelings, and complexities about her. When I actively found myself liking a character, I’m most likely going to find a ship for that character because I want my characters to be happy and paired. I was also drawn to Enjolras for the very reasons his friends are drawn to him. He’s inspiring, charismatic, and someone who has his flaws as well, who has done wrong for what he believes is right. Both characters are complex because of their beliefs and who they are and I adore them for that. Because of this I want them both to be happy and why not let them be happy together? Éponine could not be happy with Marius because Marius loved Cosette. She could find that happiness with Enjolras! Yep he might not be interested in women because he is focused on his revolution, but the beauty of fanfiction allows authors to tweak canon to suit their fantasies. And there is nothing wrong with that. That’s the whole purpose of fanfiction. The idea of having my two favorite characters get together makes me happy and anyone who thinks they can police my happiness can fuck right off. This ship has gotten me through some of the toughest times of my life and I’ll be damned if I let other peoples’ shitty and harmful opinions devalue that.

The fact that both of these characters have not interacted makes things even more interesting because of the potential they have! I also believe that if they had interacted, their dynamics would be very interesting to see unfold. Because they are both so headstrong and firm in their beliefs, it would make for such engaging fics and it has. I’ve read many enjonine fics and they are so well written and so fun to read because they feel so genuine and sincere to the characters that it makes me ship them even harder. While sparse, there is beautiful enjonine art out there and as a shipper, it makes me giddy.

Not only that, I have met some very sweet and interesting people in the fandom. While very small, most enjonine shippers are so openhearted and encouraging and because of this ship I have met beautiful people made a few friends as well. They have been nothing but kind and have helped me grow as a writer. Because of them my love for enjonine is as strong as it is. While I may not actively participate in the fandom for now, enjonine is the hill I’ll die on. They are my otp because they have helped me through such hard times and as a result made me so happy. So what if I don’t have canon to validate them? So what if other people adamantly despise the ship? If they despise me too, fine by me. I don’t need that negativity and toxicity in my life. I’ll do me and ship what I please and that’s enjonine.

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phoenix-downer · 5 years

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Hello! I haven't played KH III yet but I plan to. I have come across some really hateful posts on tumblr and even twitter about Sora and Kairi being together. It appears some people are really upset that Sora and Riku didn't become a thing and have downplayed Sora x Kairi's relationship as something as forced and not having chemistry. I had no idea this was even a thing. Can you tell me where this hostility came from? I thought it was obvious that they had feelings for each other.

Hello! Thanks for the ask! There’s a lot to examine here, but I’ll do my best to try to tackle the whole issue with tact and empathy. Light/very vague spoilers for K/H/3, E/ndgame, and F/M/A follow (with slashes so they hopefully don’t show up in the tags).

First of all, I’m so sorry you’ve stumbled across those kinds of tweets and posts. If I could, I’d shield everyone from having to deal with such hatred and negativity about something they enjoy. Doesn’t matter what you ship; no one deserves to deal with that level of toxicity.

Imagine going into a room and hearing people talk loudly about something you love, talk about how much they hate it and how much it sucks. Doesn’t make you feel very welcome, does it? But that’s exactly what’s happening here - you’re not the only one who’s noticed this. I have had to block or mute so many people because of the kind of bashing you describe. People purposely tagging their hate so that fans can see it, saying nasty things and picking fights in a way that makes you wonder what they get out of being so cruel and vicious.

I’ve seen it so much that I’m extra sensitive to it now too; I block much more quickly than I did in the past. And I would advise other people to do the same. You don’t owe anyone access to your social media. They’re not entitled to your time or energy, either. You don’t owe it to them to read their hate. By blocking them, you take away part of their audience, you take away their attention. And the thing is, they want that attention. They want to make other people angry and miserable because they’re angry and miserable. And you don’t have to give them the satisfaction.

Sadly, because twitter and tumblr have such poor moderation, no one running these sites is doing much to stop these people. In fact, the platforms even encourage that kind of behavior, because the loudest people get the most attention. So that encourages and emboldens the kind of nasty behavior you’re seeing.

Now, this is not to say there is never room for criticism, because there is, but that is a very different thing from what you’re describing, which is plain old bashing. Criticism and critique are offered in the hope that something will improve; bashing is done to express pure vitriol, and it isn’t productive for anyone. It might feel good in the moment, but in the end it just leaves people bitter and empty.

There are plenty of people critiquing K/H and how the games went and how the various character arcs unfolded and how the relationships developed, and there’s nothing wrong with that. Shutting down all criticism isn’t healthy; it should be allowed and encouraged, as constructive criticism leads to healthy dialogue, both with other fans and with S/quare E/nix. And Square has listened to fans in the past; they’ve fixed issues with gameplay that occurred when 1.5 and 2.5 were ported to the PS4 and converted to 60 fps, for example.

Neither is there anything wrong with venting to a close friend in a private setting - DMs, PMs, on your personal blog or twitter account with the ship you’re criticizing censored somehow so that everyone who likes it doesn’t have to stumble across your venting. Heaven knows I’ve had to vent a lot to stay in the fandom without lashing out. The issue is when someone thinks it’s okay to force their anger and negativity onto other people who don’t want to see it or hear it.

So the question is, why are we stumbling across such strong feelings? Because it’s clear people feel pretty strongly about all this.

I don’t think there’s an easy answer as to why this is happening, but I’ll take a shot at explaining what might’ve happened all the same. I’m sure if you asked someone else, they might give you a different answer, and it’s worth getting multiple perspectives. This is just my two cents, and naturally, it’s going to be biased towards my experiences and preferences.

The shipwars in the K/ingdom H/earts fandom have been nasty for years. From what I can gather, they got really bad when KH2 was released, though I’m sure there was probably drama before then. S*kai fans and S*riku fans did not see eye to eye on how that game went, and it’s all been downhill ever since. People on both sides have been mean and nasty, I’ve seen them be nasty, hurling insults and slurs and accusing each other of awful things to the point that the question of “who started it” is pretty much moot at this point. A more productive question would be, “how can we end it and get along, or at least start treating each other better?”

Now, since I ship S*kai (obviously), I’ll share why this is such a touchy subject for me personally. I’ve been in fandom for a while now, and something I’ve noticed is just how much fans tend to hate female characters because of sexism and internalized misogyny.

I was in the M/C/U fandom before this, and Sh*ron’s actress got death threats around the time C/ivil W/ar came out from angry shippers. And then P*ggy’s actress has likewise been harassed after E/ndgame came out by, again, angry shippers. I was a big F/M/A fan back in the day, and W*nry got so much hate from, you guessed it, angry shippers. I remember a friend back then rolling her eyes and bashing W*nry, and when I asked her why she hated her, she couldn’t really give me a clear answer other than that she was “whiny.”

Heaven forbid a female character not be completely perfect.

Over and over, I saw this pattern repeating. A female character gets hate because there is a popular alternate pairing that she “gets in the way of.” Even before I had the vocabulary to talk about it, the hatred just struck me as very gendered. I never saw that level of hatred for any of the male characters unless they were written to be hated (hello Shou T*cker). And I was likewise harsher on female characters than on their male counterparts. It took me years to realize what I was doing and to try to put a stop to it.

So then I came to the K/ingdom H/earts fandom with all that background and baggage, dealing with years of people hating characters I liked and looked up to and identified with, and I saw the same thing happening again. Yet another female character getting nasty hate because of her gender, because she dared to like a boy who was shipped with another boy. Because she dared to fall in love. How dare she have feelings, how dare she be feminine, how dare she wear pink and have a flowery Keyblade. How dare her strength of heart be stronger than her physical strength. There is only one kind of strength that matters, and it’s how hard you can kick someone’s ass (wrong, wrong, wrong, and one look at the whole power of friendship thing this series revolves around would tell you that).

How dare K*iri not be an instant expert at fighting, which is cruel and ironic because if she was an instant expert at fighting, everyone would be crying Mary Sue. How dare she sass and tease S*ra, she’s such a bitch. Oh, she doesn’t tease him as much in K/H/3 and is more gentle and supportive because he’s going through hell and nearly loses everything and she knows he needs her support now more than ever? She’s a complete pushover!

See what I mean by how hard people are on female characters? K*iri can’t win no matter what she does. She could have the best character arc ever post K/H/3 and people would still find something to complain about. That’s not to say I don’t have issues with how she’s written, I just think the criticisms against her tend to be way overblown. There aren’t enough discussions about how she could improve moving forward (though I have seen them, and thank you to those of you who do have them!), instead people just write her off completely as useless and worthless and want to improve her character by… dropping her out of the story completely (and yes, I’ve run into someone who actually thought this would be a good thing and always felt the need to talk about it, and it absolutely drove me up the wall).

And worst of all, she can’t win because S*ra fell in love with her. Really, it’s ironic that she gets as much hate as she does for something S*ra did. She had no control over S*ra falling in love with her, and yet she is absolutely despised by people because he did. She isn’t “good enough” for him apparently, whatever that’s supposed to mean.

I share all this to explain why I was so sensitive to the issue coming in. I saw the same thing happening I’d experienced time and again and I was so exhausted. So tired of it. I didn’t want to deal with it again, and I was on my guard right from the start. Especially because it’s so normalized in online KH communities to bash K*iri and S*kai. The major ones, too, with lots of people and a wide range of (or lack thereof) of shipping preferences, not just dedicated shipping groups. Try to go an entire discussion without seeing it come up… it’s a lot harder than you might think.

At first I tried to be patient and understanding. Other people have different tastes, and I wanted to be understanding of that. But after years of watching the bashing happen, my patience ran thin. I was sick of seeing it enabled in major K/H communities, sick of seeing mods refuse to put a stop to it, or worse, low-key join in with the bashing, sick of having to put up with so much negativity when all I wanted was somewhere to discuss something I enjoyed. Some people seemed almost gleeful, almost eager in their bashing; any time K*iri was brought up, they felt compelled to express their hatred for her. They were more obsessed with her than her actual fans were; felt more passionately (albeit negatively) about S*kai than some actual S*kai shippers did.

When I reached that point, the point where I was tempted to be negative and snappy and rude, I knew I couldn’t engage with certain people anymore. So I stopped trying. I searched for S*kai fans here on tumblr and stuck with them. I didn’t want to add to an already tense situation, and thankfully, there are other people who feel the same way (but more on that later).

And on the S*riku side of things, some of them have shared that they have been told nasty homophobic things for shipping S*riku. And for many of them, I’m sure S*riku is a way of expressing their identity, a way of exploring their feelings and expressing them in a safe, welcoming way with fellow fans who get what they’re going through. Representation has gotten better in recent years (though it still has a long way to go), but back when the K/H games were first coming out, things were different, and people had to take what they could get from canon and run with it if they wanted to see more content that represented them.

I’ve also seen a few people say that certain S*kai fans went out of their way to message them and rub what happened in K/H/3 in their faces. That kind of gloating is bound to upset anyone, yikes. Canon has become the new gold standard for shipping in the last decade or so, and it has sadly been weaponized in the ever-nastier ship wars, when really, a ship’s value shouldn’t be based on how “canon” it is but on the joy it brings to people.

So yeah, we have a situation where enough people on both sides were treating others poorly that everyone got defensive, because how could you not when people keep attacking something you love, especially if you feel strongly about it/associate it with your identity? And that made people more likely to lash out, and when they did, people got even more defensive, and the cycle repeated, over and over and over again.

And you know how I mentioned I sought refuge with likeminded fans? I think that happened all over the fandom. People seek out those who will support them and support their beliefs and form identities and communities based around them… and that’s a double-edged sword.

On the one hand, it’s great to get so much support, especially if you’re seeking refuge from a particularly nasty ship war. Having a safe place to vent and unwind and finally get to talk about what you love without fear of getting hate over it is awesome.

On the other hand, things like echo chambers, confirmation bias, groupthink, and the false consensus effect flourish in those kinds of situations. If all you hear is that XYZ pairing must be canon or will be canon in a future game from the group of people you’ve surrounded yourself with, and everyone enthusiastically agrees because everyone ships the same thing you do and of course no one is going to rain on that parade, it can come as quite a shock when a new piece of canon comes out and doesn’t align to your expectations. Especially if you’ve spent years expecting canon to align with your expectations.

We lose something when we can’t engage in healthy dialogue with people who disagree with us. Our perceptions get warped, our memories might even get warped, and what we could’ve sworn was canon… we might be surprised to see wasn’t, when we revisit the source material with a more critical eye or listen to someone who sees things differently than we do.

But how can we have that healthy dialogue when there’s been so much bad blood? How can we listen to each other when there’s no trust? It’s nearly impossible, so instead we reinforce the beliefs and ideas our own communities already hold fast to, and the cycle continues. We draw lines in the sand separating “us” vs. “them” and don’t give each other a chance. Not only does this alienate people on opposite ends of the shipping spectrum, it also alienates multishippers because they’re considered “traitors” to both sides, and that is an uncomfortable place to be.

I think that’s why you find the whole thing so jarring. I’m guessing you might not be as heavily involved with the fandom as I am, and have thus been largely immune from the perils of echo chambers and confirmation bias. So for you it must seem really weird that something that seems clear to you is so contentious to other people. I don’t say this to throw shade at anyone, because I know the same thing would’ve happened if the pairings had gotten switched around. It’s more of an observation of a phenomenon I’ve seen happen over and over again throughout the years.

So all of that is to say, things are tense because of all these backgrounds and experiences and histories people bring into the fandom. No one exists in a vacuum, and things were already tense before K/H/3 even came out. K/ingdom H/earts has been such an important part of many people’s lives and growing up experiences that they feel a deep connection to it and almost a sense of ownership of it. It’s a shared story, a shared experience. It belongs to all of us, in a way, and yet it’s still N*mura’s baby.

And that’s where we run into more issues. How much say should fans have in a work of art? Does the creator get the final say in interpretation, or should she accept that once her creation has been released into the world, it’s up to other people to interpret what she meant? There are no easy answers to these kinds of questions, and they’re widely debated and discussed (see: the whole death of the author debacle).

However, while I think feeling a sense of ownership and investment in a piece of art is totally fine, it crosses the line when it gets into the realm of entitlement. By this I do not mean asking for more representation, because that is a perfectly good thing to ask for; I mean demanding that the creators cater to your whims… or else. I mean contacting people who worked on the game on twitter and demanding they change the story to make it “right.” I mean directly telling one of the VAs you want her replaced because you thought she did a bad job. And yes, I am talking about actual stuff I’ve seen happen in this very fandom. All of that has also left me with a bad taste in my mouth, and other people I’ve talked to have felt the same.

That being said, shipping in and of itself is not the problem. For every nasty tweet and bashing post out there, there are plenty of kind and good people who are just there to enjoy their ships. Lovely artists and talented writers and skilled gif makers and editors creating a wealth of beautiful content for something they love. People who would never harass others for their shipping preferences and are disgusted by those who do. Unfortunately, they’re not the ones getting the attention, and they’re probably not the ones you’re going to run into if you ship a different ship, as they tend to stick to their own spaces out of courtesy and respect.

This means that the people you are more likely to run into are the ones who want to pick fights. The ones who bash and stir up drama and tell people to kill themselves for shipping XYZ. While there are plenty of people being cruel and nasty and toxic, there are good people in the fandom too. Kind, caring people who will see you as a person first and not an XYZ, even if they don’t agree with you on everything. They’re quiet(er), because kindness isn’t usually flashy and showy, but they’re here. You just have to know how to find them.

Thanks for the ask! I tried to answer this as fairly as I could, based on my observations and things I’ve been stewing over for a while now, so I hope it sheds more light on the situation.

#answer #kagome1991 #long post #i don't usually participate in the discourseTM but these thoughts have been on my mind for a while and I wanted to get them written out #kh discourse #kh3 spoilers #fma spoilers #endgame spoilers #no super heavy spoilers or anything I'm just tagging them to be safe

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