We Need To Talk About Danny's Power Level.

I was hesitant to make this post, but the more I think about it and the more I see... We really HAVE to discuss this. Generally speaking, I really don't want to be seen as someone who is trying to ruin people's fun within this fandom. I want to inform, and while I have issues with some of the very prevalent ideas in this fandom, I don't want to tell people what they should or should not be making! I want people to follow what they find fun to create! But this power level thing...? I think that it has some rather concerning implications to it that need to be examined and discussed! This is an actual, decently serious problem, and after considering it for a time, it occurs to me that I may be one of the few people in this community that recognizes this issue as an actual issue and has the authority to speak on it...

You NEED to stop making Danny so incredibly overpowered in the DPxDC space.

Now please don't misunderstand me. I understand the value of a good fun power fantasy and making Danny more powerful than God can be fun and cathartic if you have a negative history with the Christian faith. But this insistence on the Ghost Zone being The Most Important Thing Ever and Danny being The Most Powerful Entity Within It is actually actively warping how people interpret and think about DC canon as well as certain characters within its canon to the point of unrecognizability as well as robbing characters of what makes them interesting, the point of their stories, and their agency within it. But most importantly of all, all of this is just... Generally, genuinely dismissive and shitty towards most religions, cultures, beliefs, and faiths that people practice, ESPECIALLY the faiths of POC and other minorities. And this is specifically an issue that DC does not have and that people within this space are making an issue by refusing to let the Ghost Zone and Danny have some limitations.

So that you understand where I'm coming from, please understand that I'm a person of color (I'm half Filipino) and that I'm Buddhist (a religion that I decided to convert to and embrace after a lot of thought and soul-searching, even if I'm not very good at practicing it). It also needs to be stated that in the DC universe, all religions and faiths are true and real at the same time, and they all have more or less equal footing as any other faith or religion or mythology explored in this multiverse. Christian heaven and hell are real. Reincarnation is canonical to the DCU. The Greek Pantheon is real and they are just as real and powerful as the Norse Pantheon. (By the by, just to let you know, yes, people in the real life modern day do actually actively worship both of these pantheons today.) Different alien planets have different faiths, and there is precedent for them being real as well. (Hey! Fun fact! Kryptonians are polytheistic!) It does seem that some form of animism is real within the DCU (within concepts of The Red and The Green)! And there is even representation for indigenous African faiths and beliefs within this shared universe! One of the genuinely wonderful things about the DC universe is that all of these faiths are real, they're all valid, and they are all more or less on equal footing to one another! If all the religions and afterlives and gods of each pantheon went to war with one another, it would genuinely be difficult to know who would win, or who would even stand a chance of coming out of this conflict alive!

In fact, a lot of characters and storylines within the DC universe are actually DEPENDENT on all of these faiths existing and being equally valid at the same time. Do you know where Billy Batson gets his powers from? The phrase "SHAZAM," if you didn't know, is actually an acronym for the names of the gods and heroes that he derives his powers from. (Solomon, Heracles, Atlas, Zeus, Achilles, and Mercury.) And it's implied that each person with SHAZAM powers has different heroes and gods that they derive their power from! (Black Adam derives all of his powers from the Egyptian Pantheon. Mary Marvel derives all of her powers from female gods and heroic figures.) Many of Wonder Woman's stories involve her interacting with various different pantheons. Xanthe Zhou gets their powers from traditional Chinese folk ancestor-worshiping practices. Ragman is a Jewish character whose suit is a powerful Jewish artifact- a suit made out of the souls of sinners that was created to protect the Jewish community. Sun Wukong is an actual character in the DCU and he is JUST as overpowered and immortal ×500 as he should be! And there are like... At least 3 entirely different characters that either are iterations of, claim to be, or pull their powers/inspiration from Anansi! DC celebrates a lot of faiths and religions and are bringing in more beliefs and faiths into their universe all the time! TONS of characters derive their powers from their religions, faiths, and beliefs! And DC celebrates them all as being real and valid to all who practice them! ... And you want them all to be forced to be under the same umbrella and less important and powerful as Danny and the Ghost Zone...

Bringing up ideas of ghosts and afterlives are always going to be loaded subjects because they often inherently rub up against actual living people's practiced religions and beliefs. But a belief in ghosts and dimensions better suited for them is also a valid belief that real life people have. And there is precedent for these beliefs also being real within DC canon. But DC only manages to get away with crossing over as many faiths as it does by saying that they are all real, valid, and while you might see less of some pantheons and more of others, they all exist and are doing their own thing just like they do in real life, just off panel... Are you beginning to see what the problem is...?

In the DPxDC fandom's eagerness to incorporate Danny into the DC universe and to make him powerful enough to go toe to toe with the likes of Superman, it seems that most people immediately overcompensated and that no one has really thought to slow down, stop, and actually think about what they are implying. Because the most common headcanons that I have seen regarding the Ghost Zone and other afterlives and religions? It's that they are all parts of the Ghost Zone, but are all ultimately subordinate to it. And since Danny is the Most Powerful and Important Person in the Ghost Zone... This implies that all religions, faiths and beliefs are less important and are indeed subordinate to the Almighty Danny. That all deities and the people following them should just bow down to Danny's might. This is something that DC, in spite of all of its flaws, has managed to avoid. These religions are REAL religions! Actual faiths practiced by actual people! We are NOT talking about dead, irrelevant pantheons that no one alive worship anymore! We are talking about living, active faiths and religions, some of which colonizers have tried to eradicate from the world! Some of these faiths have been suppressed! Some of the people who practice these beliefs have faced genocide for them! And so saying that the Ghost Zone is bigger, better, and that Danny is more important than any single other faith and afterlife...? THAT'S A SHITTY THING TO DO! You are literally doing the shitty Christian missionary thing, but with a fictional afterlife that consists of fictional characters that you know are not actual religious beliefs! You're landing on the sandy polytheistic shores of the DCU and declaring that the Ghost Zone is actually vaster than every faith already in the DCU and that Danny is more powerful and has authority over your gods! That your beliefs and faith and religion should just take a backseat to the Danny power fantasy! That your real, lived religion is not more important nor should it be respected when Danny is in the room! Of course the Buddha should bow down to Danny! Of course the Jewish people should renounce their faith and worship Danny instead because he's better and more powerful than the Jewish God! Why should people pray to their ancestors when Danny ultimately gets to decide what happens to everyone's ancestors!? If they want good things to happen to their ancestors in the afterlife, they should pray to Danny instead! Not like any form of prayer works or matters in this universe anyway because Danny is Almighty! And he doesn't hear the prayers! By making all faiths subordinate to Danny within these stories, you are saying that anyone who practices these beliefs and faiths within these stories are not valid in their beliefs. The only belief that matters and is real in this universe is the Ghost Zone and whatever will appease Danny the most. And while the characters in these stories are not real, the religions, beliefs, and practices they engage in ARE. And so you are implying that real people's faiths and religions don't matter. You are just dismissing real faiths and beliefs as not something worth thinking about or respecting within your works! You are saying that this fictional American white teenage boy and his goopy green land is more important to you than just being respectful of real people's faiths, beliefs, and religions. That your power fantasy is more important than saying that a person is valid for holding on to their beliefs. That when it comes down to it, that you would rather people choose your Danny power fantasy over their religion being portrayed as important and valid. That is honestly insulting. And really alls that you've done is impose monotheism onto the DC universe. You're just enforcing monotheism on people with extra steps. But instead of it being the Christian God, you've put Danny in that position. THIS IS A SHITTY THING TO DO! THIS SHOULD NOT BE THE DEFAULT HEADCANON THAT PEOPLE HAVE IN THIS FANDOM! PLEASE STOP!

Please understand. I know that you didn't do this on purpose or mean to imply this intentionally. I know that you didn't realize that you were insulting and undermining actual faiths and religions by pushing these ideas on the fandom. If one or two people had these thoughts and headcanons and didn't think very much about what they are implying, this would not be a problem. But for this to be the default is VERY disconcerting! As a Buddhist, it does feel genuinely shitty and insulting to imply that Danny has authority over the Buddha and that he outranks and is more powerful than Sun Wukong. It's not fun to think that my beliefs matter to you less than continuing to play with your Danny power fantasy. That you don't think that the pursuit for enlightenment and inner peace is real or worthwhile. That you would find my pursuit of compassion over everything else to be silly, stupid, and laughable when stood next to Danny. I know that you don't mean it. I know that's not what you meant to imply. But it is what you imply by making every faith subordinate to the Ghost Zone. And as someone who has a faith that is so often seen as subordinate to others and just a silly little play fantasy that doesn't matter and isn't real, it's depressing and uncomfortable to see this community as a whole unknowingly echo these sentiments. People in real life don't think that my faith is valid. People don't believe me when I say that I'm Buddhist. And as someone who is Filipino on top of that, I can't help but to think about the utter tragedy of my ancestors being forced to convert to Christianity or die. To forget their beliefs, pretend they never mattered, and embrace Jesus. To be forced to believe that their indigenous beliefs didn't matter. And so many of those indigenous beliefs are now lost and forgotten to their living ancestors (including myself) for it because to the Christians, their belief in Jesus was ultimately more important to them than just letting the Filipino beliefs and religions peacefully exist as they were. It's uncomfortable to me that you would rather I just embrace this view of Danny and let him be more important than and be an authority over my religion. That I should just be comfortable in Danny being more important and better than every religion that people actually practice in real life. That I should just forget the insult to my and any other religion that you make by placing Danny as more important than, and to "just have fun." But I can't. And these ideas are everywhere in this fandom. Even in stories where it shouldn't matter or doesn't need to be present, it's there. This reminder that you don't take my faith seriously- these ideas that Danny is more important than my faith are ubiquitous to this community. An issue that wasn't present in either of the original source materials. Because they thought about it and so went out of their way to not imply it. But here, people are just not willing to make that courtesy for even a second.

But it doesn't have to be this way. You can do better! I know that you can do better. And it isn't even difficult to do! All that you need to do better is to simply... Just... Think about it. When you imply or say "all afterlives are part of the Ghost Zone" actually think about ALL afterlives! Christian and Atheist and Greek ones, yes. But also Asian and Native American and African and South American ones too! Is that kind of thought fair towards Native American faiths, Buddhists, Jews, Hindus, Palestinians, Hellenists, Animists, and every other person and group that practices a faith? Or does this have majorly fucked up implications towards some or all of these people? If the answer is yes, you can proceed, but you need to be mindful of that fact and just think about it, even if only a little. Even if it's just a small acknowledgement that you don't know what you're talking about or that you are choosing to ignore some of the fucked up implications you're making here for the sake of the story in the tags. I just want you to take a moment and think through the implications of what you are making, and to make a choice on whether you should proceed or reconsider things. If you choose to proceed with the fucked up implications, that's fine. It means that you can do so with other mindsets in mind and can possibly use these ideas in interesting ways! At least you made a stance to possibly be shitty towards some people for the sake of your fun. At least you made the choice to say that some people's beliefs just don't matter to your story. This is a neutral statement. Some works of art are just not made for some kinds of people. And that's fine. But it is always better to knowingly acknowledge and make that choice than to pretend that it isn't there. And if you didn't realize that's what you were doing? If you reconsider and choose to turn back on this idea? At least you made that choice and didn't just passively follow the rest of the crowd to get here. Hopefully, thinking about it will make you more mindful about your art in the future and therefore make it better! The only thing to do about it is to acknowledge that you weren't thinking about the implications, but that you changed your mind, and move forwards with your life.

Now just to be entirely clear, I'm not telling you that I want you to feel guilty about being inconsiderate towards other faiths. That doesn't really do anyone any good. I won't get any satisfaction from you feeling guilty about it or internally punishing yourself for it. Just actually give what you might be implying more thought in terms of religion next time and do better. It's alright to make mistakes. We are all just human and we all make mistakes. Sometimes we don't even realize when we've made a mistake. Just strive to do better next time, be more willing to let go of these ideas that you're so attached to, allow yourself to see things from another perspective, and move on. Sometimes, it's better to just leave things alone. Sometimes you shouldn't meddle and try to rework ideas that were perfectly good on their own to begin with. Sometimes nothing that you personally can add will be a positive contribution. Sometimes the only thing that interfering will do is over-complicate things and rob the idea of what made it so interesting and powerful in the first place. But it's okay to leave it alone. It's going to be okay. I'm not angry. Just disappointed and a little frustrated. But it's better if you are able to just drop these things and move forwards with mindfulness in the future.

As an alternative, I think that it would generally be better for the Ghost Zone to just be its own thing separate from the other afterlives. Equal to other afterlives and not all-encompassing of them. It can be connected or related to other afterlives, but being greater than them as a whole is just a very uncomfortable and cruel implication. You don't need the Ghost Zone to be the most important thing in the multiverse. And Danny does not need to be the most powerful thing in existence. Please. It's okay to have power fantasies. But the invincible overpowered stronger than all Gods Danny should not be the overwhelming norm here to the detriment of everything else. It's only when you let go of Danny NEEDING to be the MOST important thing in the multiverse can you start to really dive into some of the more interesting sides of characters on their own terms and not on yours! Like... Did you know that there is one ghost character in DC called The Spectre and that he's the literal personification of the wrath of God? Did you know that Xanthe Zhou as a spirit envoy is actually half dead and half alive? Did you know that The Wizard Shazam is actually, secretly an aboriginal god? Did you know that in the DC universe that Judas Iscariot still walks the Earth to this day, doing vigilante work to atone for his betrayal of Jesus? Did you know that Ra's Al Ghul's mom has met and hung out with some of the demons that Sun Wukong fought against in Journey to the West? Hell, did you know that Damian is Buddhist!? Imagine that. Danny coming in and telling Damian that he's more important and more powerful than Damian's entire religion. That the Buddha is just a lackey of his and that he rules over all afterlives, including nirvana and cycles of reincarnation. I'm certain that Damian would take that very well and accept it wholeheartedly! Don't you agree with me?!!?!???!

I personally think that all of this is better and more interesting if characters, their religions, and ideas in general are able to interact with Danny's world on their own terms without being forced to fit within Danny's box! You don't need to try to force everything within DC's universe to fit inside Danny's. DC wouldn't ask for Danny's universe to conform to theirs! They would just add everything that Danny's universe has to offer on top of everything else they already have! And trying to fit the entire DC multiverse within the scope of Danny's universe... It's too small a box for too large of a universe! Sometimes you can just let things not be deeply connected. And sometimes things don't need a complicated explanation and it can literally just be magic. There's nothing wrong with trying to tie everything together in a neat and succinct way. But sometimes you need to pull your view out a little and look at what you're doing and genuinely ask yourself if what you're doing actually adds depth, or if it does more harm than good and makes everything worse, make less sense, and more complicated or not. It's okay to fall down the rabbit hole sometimes. I completely understand that happening and do it all the time! Just remember to be mindful about it!

Either way, if you're going to insist on desperately clinging onto these ideas of Danny being the Most Important and Powerful Thing in the Multiverse to the detriment of literally everything else, that's fine. But just be honest with what you're doing and why. This isn't a Ghost King Danny AU. Kingdoms don't have unequivocal power over other and all kingdoms. It's a God Emperor over all Gods Danny AU. Nothing wrong with that concept in of itself. Just tag it properly as something like "God King Danny" so that I don't have to deal with it and the implications you're making about my religion with it. That would be enough! I would be happy with that! Just make your choice. Think about what you're doing, why you're doing it and choose. If you choose to keep going, that's fine! All the more power to you! Have fun! But be honest about what you're making. I may not like it and think that it's an overdone, overplayed idea at this point, but you're free to do it! So go forwards and make what will bring you joy! But now that you've thought about it a little, hopefully you'll continue with a little more knowledge and foresight. And hopefully that will make your work even more interesting and better for it! And if you decide to change course, I'm glad that I was able to sway you and get you to see things from my perspective and come to my side on this. At the very least, hopefully this will help to vary up ideas within the fandom a bit and you won't just take ideas that are happening in this space entirely for granted and as givens! I have so many ideas on interesting ways that these intersections can go and characters that you can use, and ways to look at this community that offer so so SO many interesting story directions! I'm so happy that you've decided to come with me on this journey! You're going to make something great, I'm certain of it! So let's make something wonderful together! I believe in you! There's a lot of fun to be had! ^.^

It’s ironic that Catnap was the one to burn at the end of the game.

As heretics are supposed to be the ones that burn. They’re the ones that are supposed to pay for the sin of heresy.

Instead Catnap puts Dogday in a position where it looks like he is being crucified.

And why are Dogdays legs torn off? Sure it can be a form of punishment- but is there any real significance? Any symbolism- any connection?

Is it just to give Dogday a slow death? Like what Crucifixion is meant to be as a punishment?

Anyways- just a random thought I had.

i LOVEEEE talking about judaism with converted jews its soo intriguing like please please tell me your specific reasons and how you connect with judaism even though you weren't born into it I love it I love it I love it!!! /srs

Converted jews I meet are always so sweet because more often than not their reasons are like "judaism allows me to be myself while still being allowed in a large group" and it makes me want to cry each time.

Converts I love you sm please never stop talking about your experiences with religion

I don't know if this needs to be said or not, but for those of y'all who grew up with Christianity:

Continuing to fear Hell, despite not believing in it, is not evidence that Hell actually exists. That's a conditioned fear response kicking up.

DANA YOU CAN’T HAVE BELOS BE RELIGIOUS  AND NOT GO INTO WHAT HIS BELIEFS ARE WHEN IT’S A DRIVING FACTOR TO HIS CHARACTER !!! DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY DENOMINATIONS THERE ARE?!!! EVEN THOSE WHO ARE  SUPPOSED TO BE PART OF THE SAME RELIGIOUS GROUP CAN HAVE THEIR BELIEFS AND PRACTICES VARY!!! THEY  CAN BE INFLUENCED BY LARGE FACTORS SUCH AS TIME PERIOD AND LOCATION AND SEEMINGLY MINUTE FACTORS SUCH AS WHAT CHURCH THEY GO TO!!! ONE’S BELIEFS AREN’T STAGANT AND TEND TO EVOLVE OVER TIME  EVEN FOR THE MOST DEVOUT!!! YOU CAN’T JUST BE LIKE “HE’S A PURITAN WITCH HUNTER” AND LEAVE IT AT THAT!!!!

I just ran into the most interesting religious discussion on Hazbin Hotel tiktok! Litterally all under someones showcase of one of the new songs [@/marsssipop]

Major Spoilers in the song if you haven't seen Episode 6 btw!. But to not spoil anything it's literally just Charlie trying to make a case to heaven about redemption then realizing that they don't even know how it works.

Someone made a great one-liner & then someone asked a question as to why the one-liner isn't possible & then it all kinda devolved into a whole discussion from there.

Screenshot might be a bit shitty sry bout that

These types of discussions are the ones where I think people would benefit from using Tumblr, like yeah alot of this place is just shitposting but both sides could definetly use an uncapped word limit to properly get their points across.

I was reading this whole thing like a tennis match! Also the clips that got captured at the top sometimes match the comments & I find that ironic

Last guy wasn't in the og discussion but what they said was still good.

A conversation with God (predestination)

"So, all of my friends, my family, everyone I've ever loved, all of them are in hell?"

"That is true, my child."

"And I am one of the lucky few who make it into heaven?"

"Yes."

"I don't want it."

"What?"

"You heard me. I. Don't. Want. It. I don't want to be 'one of the lucky few' I will not go into Heaven alone. Let me into Hell."

"I'm not sure you understand-"

"No, I understand perfectly. You created all these people and set their future in stone, but blame THEM when YOU make them sin, you punish them for your actions, is that not what hell is? You gave these people life, and you led them like swine to their own suffering. Not one of them had a choice, because you never left them one. From the moment they were born, they were destined for the most extreme form of torment to their soul. You pretend that it is kind to allow the 'lucky few' into paradise? I. Don't. Want. It. Give me hell or give them heaven."

"Well, with a thought process like that, maybe you do deserve hell."

"You made me in your image, your the one who made me think like this. What happened to my destiny, what happened to me having no choice in the matter? Did you not create me, too?"

"I'm not so sure I did."

I’m imagining a statement or something that deals with the Arminianism/Calvinism struggle over free will and whether that’s possible with the Christian God, THEN connect that to the Web. Perhaps a Calvinist preacher/web avatar manipulating people through the concept of predestination, using the fear of “not being chosen by God” and being helpless in your salvation? Or maybe an Arminianist (not a word i know) theologian so wrapped up with the concept of free will and the terror of not being able to choose anything in your life, that he loses it? Just some ideas :]

Hot take for queer christians or affirming christian allies, but focusing on picking apart mistranslations in the clobber verses as the means to address homophobia, transphobia, or queerphobia in the church community is literally not gonna take us anywhere further. Okay, now we've disproved that Lev 18:22 doesn't imply whatever the English translation means. Oh and Deut 22:5 applies to a certain context. And then what. Do we just acquiesce in the fact that, after providing a rebuttal to some points raised by exclusionists, we still gotta sit in this unwelcoming and often spiritually stifling environment that they created.

I think what's fundamentally imperative is understanding what the core tenets of the Christian religion stand for (aka the Great Commandment). The second commandment, "love your neighbor as yourself" already makes it clear that there's no room for prejudice and bigotry. Bring up the verses and stories where the laws change to empower women, sexual minorities and outsiders in social systems that initially deny their rights (the daughters of Zelophehad, Isaiah 56:3-6, Acts 10:9-16). Stories about people who were underdogs, or from such communities, praised, promoted, and occupying an important position in the narrative.

The Bible's a big book and any argument can be extracted out of it to befit one's agenda. With so much hateful and intolerant rhetoric being thrown around, it's way better to highlight the passages that reaffirm marginalized people are blessed and cherished and deserve a place in faith, ESPECIALLY for vulnerable queer folk within the religious community that are told they can't belong. That's all I'm saying.

The differences between the Jewish god and the Christian god is not a result of a thousand years of divergence. It is a core incompatibility from the very beginning. Part of the reason why very early Christianity had to pull its followers from paganism is because the Christian god is more familiar to pagans than Jews. Jews are notoriously difficult to convince to follow foreign gods.

I'm going to leave part of this up for discussion, people are free to comment their POV on the difference between God portrayed in Jewish texts vs Christian texts vs Islamic texts

But

The Christian God is....not at all similar enough to pagan deities other than maybe some superficial "Head Sky God" type stuff. A lot of what's "familiar" are things *imposed* on those mythologies *after* Christian conversion of the people.

Many pagan gods were depicted as very human like in their temperaments and *faults*

The Christian God is depicted as Omnicient, Onipotent, Omnipresent and never ever ever wrong. Everything is a part of The Plan.

In modern pagan practices left over Christian baggage/Christian cultural influence warp pagan practices/mythologies into something that's often not healthy or even historically accurate to what we know about them.

Also, no religion or spiritual practice exists in a vacuum. They are all shaped and influenced by the people/places/things/events/other/politics/cultures religions ect that came before them or existed along side them or interacted with them.

Look at the Greek influence on Eqyptian practices.

Or the way certain religions and practices have become syncretic over centuries or millenia of contact.

Modern Christianity isn't quite the same thing as it was prior to being taken up by the Roman Empire, and used as a tool for conquest and empire building (and split into a billion different factions who all think they're the only real Christians, and this really just sounds like BS Protestant "Catholics are pagan because Saints and Angels)

The Judaism of 6k years ago probably doesn't look entirely the Judaism of 2023

Modern pagan practices rarely look like ancient ones.

Religions, spiritual practices, are not stagnant. They move and evolve and adapt and are corrupted and manipulated and pieced apart and debated and translated and mistranslated ad nauseum

As a product of *humans* who also do all those things it will never not be influenced by other things, to remain unchanged would make for a religion or practice not made to stand the test of time.

Why we should criticise God

TW Christianity (criticism of Christianity, discussion of genocides in Christian bible)

God should be criticised for the notion that, as a devout Christian would claim, he's an all-knowing and all-loving being, yet he murders his own creations and commits genocides. This act of killing and destruction often times has been used as a last resort of God in the Bible, when all other forms of punishment have been exhausted.

In the Bible, God is depicted as a loving and just being, who loves his creations and doesn't take joy in punishing them. Yet, he also displays a great degree of wrath and vengeance, especially when it comes to the destruction of his own creations. For example, God orders the Israelites to exterminate the Canaanites, destroying both the people and their livestock and homes. Similarly, God brought plagues and floods that destroyed and killed his creations for their perceived sins.

The Bible accounts for a number of mass killings at the hand of God that could be seen as genocides. It is possible to understand the actions taken by God as having been done out of mercy, but it can be argued that such actions are unjustified, especially as they're often committed against people who aren't given a chance to repent or change their ways.

The notion of killing as a form of punishment also goes against the modern idea of justice and is generally seen as a cruel and unusual punishment in today's society. This can lead to difficult questions and criticisms, such as why God is so quick to resort to such severe measures, and why he doesn't show mercy and compassion to those who are supposedly under his protection.

Ultimately, God's willingness to resort to extreme measures, such as genocides, has led me to ask difficult questions and make criticisms of his character and sense of justice. While it is somewhat possible to understand the reasoning behind his actions, it can also be argued that such measures aren't compatible with the modern idea of justice and shouldn't be overlooked.

What if only the afterlives that take place in a different space exist within the Ghost Zone? But that all the death gods & reincarnation gods are equally important there?

Perhaps imagine it as being a reflection of the polytheism of the living DC realm? All the death gods

Somehow, I doubt that Pariah Dark was truly the literal king of the Infinite Realms. The very name implies that they are infinite. If he had, why would he be referred to simply as king & not emperor or god-emperor? He was certainly a big enough jackass.

It's possible that he was simply a conqueror &, thus, the right of rulership of the lands of the dead that'd conquered would obviously have changed due to this. However, the likelihood that he managed to conquer literally the entirety of a place that is infinite is nil. Because it is an impossibility in the grand scheme of things.

As such, it's more likely that Danny would've only become ruler over those select areas & not the literal entirety of the afterlife. If anything, I see if being more so that he'll have to cooperate with the vast number of death deities within the IR that constitutes Earth.

I admit, I do have a bias in terms of religion & am obviously going to prefer my own over all others & will believe that it is the right one no matter what & this likely shows in my own theories & worldbuilding.

At the same time, I try to be respectful of the cultures of others. Though, perhaps I can sometimes come across as a bit tone deaf.

And I can definitely understand not liking the white-washing of cultures. I hate it when Hades & Loki are portrayed as evil in a ridiculous attempt to draw parallels to Christianity. Because they aren't Christianity & that isn't how they are in their actual stories. Same with Zeus being portrayed as good, because... woof... He uh... he was messed up. Like, holy cow messed up...

I mean, I can understand a degree of creative liberty. Like, I could understand if the myths were portrayed as being his dark past that he's trying to move on from, but the fact that they aren't even addressed sometimes is... I don't like it.

Nods nods. And hey, no worries. You don't feel particularly tone deaf here. The fact that you're giving this some thought at all is enough for me! And hey. I get the having bias towards your own religion. I'm the same way too obviously. :p

But yeah. I'm alright with this way of going about the Infinite Realms and Ghost Zone in relation to other afterlives. It probably wouldn't be how I would personally want to go about this, but I wouldn't mind seeing works using this particular reading of the Infinite Realms.

And I ABSOLUTELY feel you about the Christianization and flattening of mythological figures. Always a very >:T time for me when I see people portraying Hades as evil. Because like... He's not. Also I can't help but to love Loki. He's such a freaking doofus and I love the he. But yeah... I also get frustrated by the flattening of DC characters within this fandom too... Obviously it's not the same, but the ideas are related so thinking about that just reminded me of that... Just... Siiiiiiigh...

secrets

“I don’t believe in God,” Joel said, each word becoming a cloud as he spoke, what you’d imagined the Holy Spirit to be like back when you were a kid at Sunday School. You were outside, even though it was bitter cold, because it was a clear night after so many cooped up inside after days of miserable sleety snow. The sky was full of stars, bright enough a vengeful God wouldn’t have any trouble smiting Joel for his heresy. Blasphemy. Whatever it was.

“That’s not a secret,” you said. “Don’t think you ever did. You don’t have a real lapsed vibe, you know?”

“I believe in you,” he said, ignoring your question and the way you were gaping at him. He reached over to ruffle your hair, foiled by your hat, and settled for tugging at the braid that hung over your shoulder, the gesture so affectionately fond you might have worried he was becoming avuncular, except that he’d just said he had more confidence in you than an omnipotent being and also, that morning he’d let you ride him when you reminded him about his trick knee.

“Also, I got Ellie a horse for Christmas,” he said. “Surprised?’

From the pews

Welcome, God.

I sit in church. Week by week, I endure. I listen, I understand; I try to understand the perspectives, the worldviews, of a people that are increasingly not like me.

I hear people say that God’s design is families, that God works in families. That single people exist, and God has provision for that, but the main story of the Bible is families. That ultimately God designs for us to be in families, and that means marriage and children.

I think of God working in a highly patriarchal society where a woman was truly safer married than single, where everyone came from a family (where blood family was very important but could also could mean member of a household, a servant of a family or a second cousin of a patriarch or any number of things that were bigger than just the initial top family unit), where divorce would be worse for everyone involved and the woman was immediately vulnerable, where being a widow was a terrible fate for women because they couldn’t provide for themselves, and many of the passages on singleness in the Bible are in the New Testament where it was a bit more safe and normal for people to be single and devoted to God.

I think of Adam and Eve, childless before the Fall.

I think of the pages in the Bible God put in about slavery, where slavery was a practice in the Bible, but in God’s initial design for Israel (that Israel frequently failed in) it was temporary, treated like an indentured servant, and it was only for specific circumstances and not to be born into. I think of how slaves were given rights, rights that weren’t seen in any other culture at the time. I think of the more broad and more easy-to-interpret-as-bad ideas about slavery (that slaveowners in America absolutely took advantage of without realizing that slavery outlined in Leviticus wasn’t racially motivated or permanent or assumed subhumanity) were actually in the New Testament, in a culture that was Greco-Roman, distinctly not Israelite or following the laws outlined in the Torah, and there was little slaves could do to not be in their position. I think about how God actually called the Israelites out of slavery in Exodus, which speaks much more loudly about his opinion on slavery than anything else.

I think of God, working in cultures regardless of what they value most and what they consider normal, understanding we have preconceptions about how the world works and putting in structures and ideas so we can follow him even in an “imperfect” society with ideas we haven’t even thought to question yet.

I think of God putting revelation knowledge in our church fathers, encouraging us to follow the Bible the best way we can. I think of how many of them were single. I think of the monasteries and abbeys, men and women living in communities of singleness with each other, leading other communities to Jesus. I think about how until the Protestant Reformation, the pendulum had swung so far in the other direction that people who wanted to serve God weren’t allowed to marry, even though Peter, considered the first church father, had a wife. I think how even in Peter’s case, we only know about him being married because Jesus healed his mother-in-law, and that much more emphasis was put on his devotion to God.

I come home. I drink tea, alone in my house. I stare at the pride pin on my backpack. The mark of the single, the mark of the childless, the mark of the person who will almost certainly be unable to give her body to a husband. The orange and white and blue of those without attraction, but not without love.

I think of the sacrifice and sacrament of marriage, the intention being a mutual serving, of loving as Christ loved the church and gave his life for her, of submitting as to the Lord and not to men, of choosing to trust even if you don’t know or understand yet.

I think of the people who have loved me unconditionally. I think of the people who have encouraged me to submit my life to God, even if I don’t understand why yet and fear for the future. I think of those who have held me as I weep for the future I have lost, but tell me to trust God and that he has a place for me no matter what.

I think of the people I love and who I can care for. I think about the people I speak for, who I speak to and why.

And I wonder.

If I have devoted my life to God and gotten a sea of people who love me and who I can love in return, is that not a family?

“A father to the fatherless, a defender of widows, is God in his holy dwelling. God sets the lonely in families, he leads out the prisoners with singing; but the rebellious live in a sun-scorched land.”

‭‭Psalms‬ ‭68‬:‭5‬-‭6‬ ‭NIV‬‬

And now for something absolutely different...because they wanted to.

I swear, I did not sit down to deep dive into Frank's religious views, but once my mind had pointed out that he was an Inquisition Spaniard living with an Edwardian gay Englishman...... well. It just kinda happened. >.>

Disclaimer: Belos’s religious views are very unclear and regardless I am not from the same branch of religion he is part of. I have not studied Puritanism in depth and am aware religion is in a constant state of evolution.  This is just a cool concept idea I’m positing.

Though the suffering within realms like Hell are often what comes to mind when  one thinks of religion, reality is naturally much more complex.  There are a lot of religious people, who, even when having a concept of Hell in their doctrine, don’t believe in the idea presented, whether partially or entirely.  There are plenty debates surrounding the concept of Hell; how long does it last, is the concept of it moral, are some people automatically doomed to go there, do those created by the Devil actually suffer in Hell, etc. For example, some people think people who commit suicide automatically go to Hell, while there are others who think those who commit suicide automatically go to Heaven. Concepts like predestination also confuse this. Let’s call this “ uncertain hell theory.” I want to put this with the “ uncertain  Heaven theory” which brings into question the typical rules/concept of Heaven.  More specifically, I want to discuss a concept that centers around the potential temporariness of Heaven .   Essentially it’s the idea that when you sin, you’re not just putting yourself and your eternal soul at risk, but your loved ones at well.  If you sight against God, rather than you solely facing the consequences for it,   He may hurt your loved ones as well for punishment.  This includes people who are already in Heaven.  Even if you’re a good follower, if, say, a family member isn’t they could damn you both.  There are fallen angels but no risen devils and all that.   It’s definitely one of the most interesting ( and damaging) beliefs I’ve come across.  I’m unsure how common it is but imaging Belos having similar beliefs just makes everything that much more tragic. Like imagine an all powerful being  wanting you to be the participator in a large, rather extreme deed. Like, how the fuck can you going to say no to that?  Any personal feelings could not be brought into the equation for the sake of self perseveration.  (Of course, I think Belos would do so regardless: God is supposed to be a good, all knowing being. How could He be wrong? Why would Belos go against that?)  Regardless, people rarely ever talk about how much religion influences Belos. It’s not just an  excuse, he genuinely believes all  that stuff. It’s not hyperbole to call Gravesfield a cult. Yes, Caleb is a central motivation, but claiming it’s Belos’s only one is dismissing an important aspect to his character.