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Undertaker and Sebastian
To be honest, I didn’t give the relationship between the two of them much thought. So far, we can be certain that it stands like this: UT has a connection to the Phantomhives and Sebastian is in the way vs Sebastian wants Ciel’s soul but UT is in the way.
It’s interesting that UT is the one opponent that caused Sebastian the most damage, but they’re not exactly arch-nemeses. I always felt that they were only circumstantial to each other- ex. if Sebastian just up and left Ciel, UT would leave him be.
Then into–the–abyss pointed out that one time William “defended” Sebastian and it got me thinking. Because at the end of Campania, Ciel was agitated over UT and all Sebastian said was this:
Then this happens immediately lol:
So it looks like after the whole fiasco, Sebastian believes Undertaker won’t harm Ciel even though he’s such a bloodied mess because of UT. It’s the best kind of irony- William spoke for Sebastian’s character at the end of the circus arc and Sebastian spoke for UT’s character at the end of campania.
But then in Weston, Sebastian imagined UT grabbing Ciel again. Maybe he was just worried UT would do something to make Ciel’s soul unattainable lol, but that whole imagination setup looked pretty threatening (to Ciel). Either way, Sebastian was awfully worried over someone supposedly harmless to Ciel. Maybe he changed his mind? Or maybe he thinks UT just didn’t want to harm Ciel at the moment?
Undertaker obviously thinks the contract is harmful for Ciel’s future (no shit lol), but what Sebastian thinks of UT to Ciel is another matter. Sebastian went ahead and judged UT on one action (stabbing him) and a few lines: he’s as in the dark as Ciel, but he really gave UT a surprisingly big benefit of the doubt. If anyone decided UT was a “hero,” not a villain, it’d be Sebastian.
And since it’s canon Sebastian is a “muscle brain” (according to Yana lol), his thought process should be a lot simpler than UT’s. But it’s also worth noting that Sebastian is hilariously optimistic: at the end of the circus arc when Ciel made the realization “damn, humans are evil!” Sebastian was behind him going “wow. did not expect.” He was also shocked by Sullivan’s treatment of her daughter and Grell’s “betrayal” of Madame Red (which makes one wonder what kind of idealistic world Sebastian thinks he’s living in).
Sebastian thinks of himself as the villain of the story, that much is certain. So it looks like he’s shoehorning UT into the role of hero (or at least a big obstacle). And knowing Yana/UT, it’s probably not as simple as Sebastian imagines.
I feel like the gripe between these two will become more personal after another catalyst. Things are going to get serious- I think UT’s done experimenting and testing Ciel and Sebastian- whatever he’s planning and whether or not it involves Ciel, it’s going to happen already. Then it won’t be a conflict between that demon and that reaper who happened to bump into each other: it will be a personal conflict between Sebastian and Undertaker.
But I don’t know if they’ll ever become foils of each other. For some reason, I have the suspicion that UT’s foil will be Grell or William.
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i was wondering, do you think sebastian and ciel care about each other in the manga?, i would like to hear your take on this, because till now i have seen multiple interpretation plus my own, and so i was curious
Care is a pretty loose term in my opinion. Someone cancompletely shatter you and still claim to care about you. But let’s assume youmean the romanticized term. Care is an understatement for the two. I think theKuro duo share something a bit deeper than care.
It is something more along the lines of.. planet shattering,death defying, soaked in the deepest pits of hell and blackened by the core ofboth of their hearts NEED.
Ciel comes off as a child going on 35, cold and emotionless,stopping at nothing to reach his end goal. There will definitely be pawnspiling up at the foot of his throne and I wholeheartedly believe Ciel will holdno remorse in watching them fall. The young master’s personality is eternallyserious, unfaltering from his pristine reputation as the Earl of Phantomhive.
-BUT-
Ciel needs Sebastian. He does not only care for him. Heneeds him. He needs him, to be the only being he shows his weaknesses to. To bethe one that comforts him when he screams from his night terrors. To be hiscursed redemption and first class ticket to his own personal hell. He needshim. Ciel tends to be very unfazed by many things that happen but… what happenswhen the butler gets hurt..?
Look at those eyes. Ciel believed in that moment that therewas a possibility that he could lose his demon. That he could lose everything.I see desperation. But what I see most is hysteria. He is about to completelylose it. Yes yes, I know, it can be because he really thought Sebastian woulddie. But look at this…
Ciel does not believe that Sebastian’s life is in danger. Heunderstands that the demon will eventually heal. But then why does he screamout? He was caught by surprise from the demon’s painful grunt and his trueemotions came out when he called his name. Why? Because he cares needs him.Wants him. Breat- let me stop. But this is also interesting…
Why? Why is the proud earl of Phantomhive giving rest to notonly a servant but a demon that will heal quickly at that? Simple.
Because he is so utterly grateful and relieved that he didn’tlose him.
So… what about Sebastian? Ah, the demon. Yes, upon firstmeeting Ciel, he almost immediately regretted his decision to be with such a troublesomechild. Until things changed. The boy grew on him. Sebastian has said multiple times over and over that he does not experience human emotions, right?Well he is right, of course.
-HOWEVER-
What happens when Ciel gets hurt?…
What happened to the oh so well put together butler? Thislooks like a lot of emotion to me. And yes, again with the whole he may befearing the loss of his cultivated meal… but is that a reason to crack the carefullyblown glass of his flawless outward appearance as the perfect butler?? And thisone…
Look at him yelling. He is so desperate he cannot even helpbut scream like..a…human? –gasp- He could have held it together. Ran as fast aspossible, got to the door, knocked just loud enough to wake everyone. But no.Hysteria has affected the demon as well and he is completely freaking out. Looks like emotions to me. Why? Because he cares NEEDS this boy. This soul. This life as a butler. This littleinkling of interest he has found within the multiples decades he has lived. Andlet us not forget this…
Again, we have the butler spazzing over the safety of hisyoung master. Again we have the butler losing just a bit of control over hisrationale. And why the coat? Why did he cover Ciel with the coat? Looks like emotion to me. Now here iswhere Ciel first awakes in the Green Witch arc. Look at Sebastian’s face…
“Oh my devil, you’re awake, holy crap, are you okay?” Imean, his eyes and the sweat drip speak for themselves.
Now let’s take out Ciel’ssafety entirely. The boy is alive. He is awake. He is being taken care of. ButSebastian doesn’t seem so happy…why?
Because the young master has order him to “not touch him.” He does not only live to eventually feed off ofCiel’s soul. He now exists to yield to Ciel in any and every way possible. Itlooks almost physically painful that he cannot be near the little lord (whoREMEMBER is still being taken care of and is in no danger). Sebastian islegitimately upset that he cannot be the one to cater to Ciel.
Not just because he cares for him. Not just because he wantshim.
But because he NEEDS him.
All in all, I fully believe the two care for one another buton a whole other level than what others would think when they hear the word care. Their bond goes deeper than that. I believe that if they were the onlytwo left alive in the universe, Sebastian would wake up, pour Ciel’s tea, theboy would sigh in content and proceed to tell Sebastian how lovely the morning air was in the dead of winter.
Even if they didn’t, per say, “care” for one another…
They definitely need each other.
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Let's Talk About Bæddels: A Comprehensive Retrospective
(This post on Medium)
(@thequeer-quill's video reading)
Disclaimer
This post is not claiming that trans women do not suffer, or do not suffer as much as other groups of trans people. It is not claiming that all trans women are Baeddels (or adjacent), nor is it claiming that trans women oppress anyone else.
Transmisogyny is real, and requires much more acknowledgement than it currently receives. The trans community is very much capable of transmisogyny, and often does enact or enable it; likewise, trans people also often enact and enable transphobia against other parts of the trans community.
If you take only one thing from the following, take this:
We all need to work on being better allies to each other. None of us can gain anything without the rest of us.
Setting the Stage for Baeddelism
We can’t talk about Baeddelism without talking about Tumblr user @monetizeyourcat (“Cat”), and the ideology she popularized on the website in the early 2010’s.
Cat was a loud voice with a huge blog in the early days of Tumblr. Most of her popular content was humor-based, but she also championed an ideology that synthesized certain aspects of feminism, transfeminism, and communist ideals. Cat’s ideology is better explained here, and can be further explored here, but this is the foundation:
Manhood is inherently oppressive, and cannot exist outside the context of oppression.
Gender can be, to some extent, a choice.
Because of the above, one’s gender is an ethical choice with ethical consequences.
Being a man is, therefore, ethically harmful and wrong; particularly if you are giving up womanhood in order to be a man.
Being a woman is, therefore, ethically correct; particularly if you are giving up manhood in order to be a woman.
You may recognize some of the ideas here as a version of Radical Feminism: namely, the idea that manhood/men are inherently oppressive, and that womanhood/women are inherently victims.
All Cat had to do was map Radical Feminism onto the trans community. If manhood is Bad, and men are Bad, then trans men who reject womanhood in favor of becoming men are Bad. If womanhood is Good, and women are Good, then trans women who reject manhood in favor of womanhood are The Best. Which, of course, would also explain why society hates them more than any other trans person (something taken for granted by Cat and many others at the time).
This foundation was built upwards into a more complicated system of beliefs: cis men were viewed as “potential trans women”, people who did not yet know whether they were trans, had not made that choice, and could, conceivably, still choose to be women. As such, cis men were often seen as “better” than trans men. Trans men were encouraged to detransition, men in general were encouraged to reject their manhood in favor of womanhood, and “sissification” became a hallmark “joke” that the community forming around Cat latched onto.
The “gender is a choice” part of this ideology is a bit hard for most trans people to swallow, and Cat herself did not entirely ascribe to the idea that gender was always a choice. Still, even if men were intrinsically and inherently men, and even if they couldn’t simply choose not to be men the way she had, the idea remained that the so-called “ethical consequences” of being a man, and the harm this did to The Collective, vastly outweighed the personal harm suffered by “remaining” or “becoming” a woman. It was, in short, more ethical to suffer dysphoria in pursuit of womanhood than it was to accept one’s manhood.
It’s unclear whether Cat ever identified as a Baeddel, and she certainly didn’t begin the movement herself. She was definitely close to it, though, and many attest that her ideology constituted the building blocks of the Baeddelism movement.
Establishing an Ideology
The first post on Baeddelism was by Tumblr user @unobject, on October 2nd, 2013, and liked by @lezzyharpy, also one of the original Baeddels:
(Credit to @AcesArosandEnbies)
This post first provided the name and defining ideology of the Baeddel movement. The conclusion drawn from the post was, essentially, that because the root of the word “bad” was “baeddel”, and because “baeddel” referred to intersex people and “womanish men”, this old English slur was proof that transmisogyny was the worst form of bigotry; and even, perhaps, the root of all bigotry. (It’s worth noting that this etymology is likely inaccurate and ahistorical, along with problematic in several other ways.)
While @unobject was the first person to make this connection, @autogynephile (“Eve”) eventually became, in essence, the figurehead of the movement. Of the other Baeddels, some of them were explicitly aware and supportive of the ideology behind Baeddelism, some of them were young or newly-out trans women seduced by the personalities involved, and some of them were tangential enough to the movement that they didn’t really even know what it was. Baeddelism was a sort of trend, for a time, and many participants wore the name without entirely knowing what it meant.
It’s important to acknowledge that as much as there were dedicated members of Baeddelism, and as much as there was a unified ideology behind it, there were also individual Baeddels who did not understand- let alone support- the ideology.
That said…
The Belief System
Baeddels essentially built upon the foundation of @monetizeyourcat’s ideology that had been gaining traction on Tumblr in the years prior, with some additions that ultimately defined their movement:
Transmisogyny is the form of oppression from which all (or most) other forms of oppression stem.
Privilege is granted on the basis of assigned sex. (“AFAB” or “Assigned Female at Birth” vs. “AMAB” or “Assigned Male at Birth”)
These fundamentals of Baeddelism were essentially a rebranded form of Radical Feminism, much like Cat’s ideology. In particular, they drew from the Radical Feminist idea that misogyny was the “primary” form of oppression; that which all other oppression stemmed from. Baeddels only tweaked this idea to replace “misogyny” with “transmisogyny”, which led to the rest of the conclusions Baeddels drew:
Men are inherently oppressors, and women are inherently oppressed.
Trans women are inherently victims.
Because only AMAB people can experience transmisogyny, they are inherently more oppressed than AFAB people.
“AFAB Privilege”: The idea that within the queer and/or trans community, AFAB people receive unique privilege and positions of power that AMAB people do not.
There is no “transphobia” separate from “transmisogyny”. All transphobia stems from transmisogyny first, and transphobia as it impacts non-transfeminine trans people is incidental at most.
It’s important to note that these ideas were not all as universal as the first two, and different individual Baeddels held them to different extents.
Trans Lesbian Separatism
… was what the movement was ultimately defined by, as the logical conclusion of their other beliefs (much like Lesbian Separatism was the logical conclusion of Radical Feminist beliefs).
Baeddels believed that only trans women can understand, or be truly safe for, other trans women; therefore, contact with anyone who was not a trans woman was deemed “dangerous” and highly discouraged.
Trans Men
… also played an important role in Baeddel ideology, and the resulting treatment of trans men is what is often remembered today. Baeddels generally believed the following, either explicitly or implictly:
Trans men are not oppressed, nor marginalized at all.
Trans men do not experience transmisogyny.
Trans men do not experience misogyny, even prior to transition.
Trans men have access to male privilege.
Trans men have an easier time passing, and frequently go “stealth”; thus benefiting from male privilege as well as cis privilege.
Trans men are often (or always) misogynistic and transmisogynistic, and are not held accountable for this.
Trans men actively “choose” manhood even when presented with the “option” of womanhood.
Trans men oppress cis women.
Trans women enacting violence on trans men is “punching up” at oppressors, and therefore not only permitted, but encouraged.
Trans men become aggressive and violent when they go on testosterone HRT.
Nonbinary People
… are often overlooked when summarizing Baeddelism, but Baeddels did have plenty to say about them. Baeddel ideology relied on the idea that privilege was granted on the bases of assigned sex, and nonbinary people’s genders were thus treated as irrelevent; they essentially did not believe nonbinary people truly existed.
CAFAB nonbinary people are either trans men attempting to invade women’s spaces, or cis women pretending to be trans.
CAMAB nonbinary people are actually just trans women who haven’t accepted it yet. They must transition, or they are transmisogynistic.
Intersex People
Intersex experiences, and intersex history, were often co-opted and erased by Baeddelism. This was often more a byproduct of their beliefs than an overtly-stated idea, but most notably, the term “Baeddel” itself is likely more applicable- if not exclusively applicable- to intersex people, rather than trans women. Making their reclamation of it as a “transmisogynistic slur”, or their claim that the word’s existence means that “transmisogyny is the root of all oppression”, incredibly ignorant- if not actively harmful misinformation.
Notably, Baeddels also believed that intersex people- being “more androgynous” (a harmful misonception)- were able to pass more easily as the opposite assigned sex, and that intersex people even within transfemme spaces had “intersex privilege”. Some even believed, and openly claimed, that intersex people were “hermaphroditic”; a slur against intersex people, and typically implying that the individual has both sets of reproductive systems simultaneously.
Trans Women
… did not receive universally positive treatment, either. Baeddelism was very much a cult-like group built around the firmly-held conviction that they were absolutely correct, and that anyone who disagreed with them was The Enemy. Trans women who disagreed with them were generally seen as brainwashed and self-hating, and trans women who did agree with them were expected to subjugate themselves to the ringleaders of the movement.
Within Baeddel circles, trans women were most frequently victimized by the abusers allowed to run rampant because “trans women do not, and cannot, harm anyone else.” - Including, apparently, each other.
“They were also bad shitty abusive people in general.
“… a bunch of them passed around a pile of smear campaigns and false rumors about virtually any trans woman that they had a even the slightest animosity for. Including the victim of the kinkster rapist. They’ve done other fucked stuff, like chased two twoc off this site for trying to make a zine, but yeah. That’s like, just some of it. I’m not up for going over the messy details of the whole shitparade
“Full disclosure, I made a lot of excuses for these sacks of crap, even while they were out there spreading false crap about me […] I wasn’t aware of the worst shit they were doing until much much later."
- @punlich
Inside the Movement
Though individual Baeddels often existed in vastly different social circles from each other- particularly offline- those who lived through the movement highlight commonalities in their experiences.
One interviewee recounts the manipulation present in their initial involvement with the movement:
“It came to me at a point where I was very quick to weaponize anything anyone told me about their experiences, because I was always a fighter. I’ve been an activist for a long time, you know, and when these trans women would come to me with their experiences I would believe them. I wanted to. But the way they acted didn’t add up when compared to what they were saying. I felt really lonely there, and stupid all the time. I felt like I was being a bad trans person.”
[…] “Online they were more willing to say things that were, for lack of a better word, stupid. They would say things that lacked any kind of logical sense. But in person, they would go into this kind of toxic femininity- this weaponization of weakness. And I think that’s because online they were often in these echochambers, but in person they had to rely on much more subtle manipulation.”
- Vera
It seems at points that the environment created within this movement- and the social circles that composed it- was almost cult-like in nature and in need for control.
“It was very isolating. I didn’t see my friends for a while, I was kind of just living with them, cooking and cleaning for them, starving myself, and slowly growing crazy. I was just being consumed by this weird academia and theory that had no basis, because everything was online and Tumblr-based.”
- Vera
When Bæddels Took Them: An interview and reflection on the Bæddelism movement
Perhaps most chilling, however, are the patterns in their attitudes toward sexual assault. One interviewer recounts being subject to sexual assault, and upon posting about their experience to a Facebook group, being met with hostility from Baeddels present in the group- who quickly used their social influence to have them banned from some of their only support systems at the time.
“I ended up with pretty much no one to talk to about the experience at a time when I was already really, really struggling, and it’s one of several factors that led to me dropping out.
“The Baeddel who got me banned also messaged me directly at some point during all of this, and I tried to get her to understand the pain she was causing me. She basically laughed it off and said it was my fault. She seemed to find a lot of joy in how much it hurt me, and blocked me soon after.”
- Anonymous
Another recounts sexual consent violations from a friend-turned-Baeddel:
“[My ex-friend] had previously been fetish-mining me for her mommy kink. I was freshly estranged from my own mum, and she stepped in to be like, “I’m your new mum now,” and would pester me to call her “mum” in Welsh- as at that point she was going by a Welsh name. I played along, but it transpired that she was basically using that to get off, and she had a thing for infantilising transmascs and being this mum/mom figure.”
- Luke
And yet another interviewee discusses verbal sexual harassment during interactions with another Baeddel:
“I had one [Baeddel] directly tell me that I’m beneath her as a trans man, and that I should “Shut my smelly cooch up” and only use my voice to uplift trans women. I was a minor at the time.
“She then sicced her followers on me, and they bombarded me with messages telling me I’d “never be a real man”, that I needed to “sit on the side and allow them to have the spotlight”, and even telling me to kill myself- because I was inherently toxic to them. I was 16 years old, pre everything, and I couldn’t even pass at the time. They didn’t seem to care that I was a minor, or a newly hatched egg.”
- Anonymous
Brushes with Bæddels: Recalling the Bæddel movement
While Baeddel ideology itself does not explicitly condone or excuse sexual assault, it’s striking how common these stories are; especially considering how small in numbers actual Baeddels were.
It was, in fact, this exact problem that would eventually cause the movement to dissolve.
The Downfall of Baeddelism
Sometime between the group’s formation in 2013 and their downfall near the end of 2014, @autogynephile (also “Eve”), the defacto “ringleader” of the Baeddel movement, began what Baeddels referred to as a “transbian safehouse”.
This was apparently intended as a place for unhoused trans woman lesbians and trans women who, in general, had sworn off contact with men; the ultimate goal of the lesbian separatist ideology at the core of the Baeddel movement. It was thus also referred to as a “commune” by some, and as a “cult” by others.
One occupant of the “safehouse”- Elle- later posted to Tumblr that they had been raped by Eve during their stay, and detailed their experiences.
The Baeddels, rather than believing the victim and ousting the rapist from their movement, chose to close ranks around Eve.
Various reasons were given for this:
The victim must be lying
The victim- and anyone who believed them- was simply transmisogynistic.
Anyone who disagrees with the Baeddels is an Enemy Of The Movement, a “carceral thinker”, and a danger to trans women as a whole.
Trans women are incapable of sexually abusing anyone.
“Standing with Eve” was the ultimate sign of loyalty to the movement, and thus a mark of pride and honor.
It was okay to keep being a Baeddel no matter what, because Rape Accusations Should Be A Personal Matter.
(You can read more about Eve’s own denial of these events here and here.)
Years later, even people involved in the initial group have spoken out against the movement and actions of those involved:
(@lezzyharpy was one of the original Baeddels, and one of the first people to like the first “Baeddel” post by @unobject).
This was not the only instance of abuse by people associated with Baeddelism.
Elle posted their statement on August 4th, 2014; between that time and September of the same year, another user by the name of Quinn posted about her own experiences with abuse at the hands of @monetizeyourcat. Cat’s roommates in Seattle posted about their experiences with Cat shortly after Quinn did. Both parties alleged that Cat had been a manipulative and abusive roommate, friend, and partner.
Cat first attempted to argue the accusations, then later admitted that they were true and left the site. Her blog still contains her parting message. It has been pointed out that this is not necessarily an action taken in good faith and desire for growth.
The reception of her abuse allegations followed a similar pattern to Eve’s: people who ascribed to her ideology, Baeddels included, believed that Cat was not and could not have been abusive, as a trans woman. Others ignored warnings about her past and potential future actions, citing transmisogyny as the reason she must have been accused at all.
It has also been pointed out that Cat’s ideology (and, relatedly, Baeddel ideology) was extremely conducive to abuse- if not entirely constructed in order to allow abuse.
Why It Matters, and Why Baeddelism Never Really Fell
Baeddelism itself has seen multiple attempts at resurgences by various individuals, including documented experiences with self-proclaimed Baeddels as recently as 2018- well after the movement first “fell” in 2014.
Most proponents of “Baeddelism 2.0”, a revival of the original movement, argue that the abuse that occurred within the original movement was either completely fabricated by detractors (sound familiar?) or, at minimum, not actually inherent to the ideology.
And, of course, there are some original Baeddels still active on Tumblr today.
Baeddelism never actually went away.
“Baeddelism” was only one name for a set of beliefs that existed long before the specific term did, and hasn’t gone anywhere since the original Baeddel movement died down.
What the Baeddels did was put a name to the ideology @monetizeyourcat was cultivating before them, and what Cat did was popularize, centralize, and justify a way of thinking that had existed before she ever made her blog.
This ideology has since been referred to, loosely, as “TIRF-ism”: Trans-Inclusive Radical Feminism.
It is rare that anyone actually refers to themselves as a “TIRF”, and there is no real centralized TIRF movement; rather, a loose collection of radical feminist beliefs circulates various transgender spaces. The validity of these beliefs is generally taken for granted: of course (trans) women are The Most Oppressed People; of course (trans) women are Inherently and Unequivocally Victims In All Situations; of course (trans) men are Inherently Oppressors; of course (trans) men are Dangerous and Evil… and so on.
Like Radical Feminism, and subsequently Trans-Exlcusive Radical Feminism (TERF-ism), those ideas are fundamentally dangerous.
The defining tenants of radical feminism are that misogyny is the root of all oppression, and that rather than misogyny being an issue of power and control on a society-wide level, it is instead, or also, a matter of oppression and privilege on an individual level: men are always oppressors, and women are always victims.
These beliefs fundamentally exclude and erase the experiences of other marginalized people.
Namely, people of color and indigenous people, who’s experiences with and concepts of gender do not fall within the strict and rigid lines that white, western, colonialist people’s do.
Radical feminism is not a redeemable ideology. It cannot be reshaped into something good. It is fundamentally broken, and the movements born from it- lesbian separatism, political lesbianism, TERF-ism, TIRF-ism, and Baeddelism- are proof enough of that. They each promote only surface-level variations of what is fundamentally cult-like thinking: only the in-group can be victimized. Only the in-group is safe; the out-group is inherently and universally dangerous. Only the in-group understands you. All members of the in-group are, fundamentally, incapable of abuse.
We cannot allow these ideas to be perpetuated within or without the trans community.
Learn the Signs & Prevent the Harm
Here’s what we can do to prevent this from happening again:
Learn what Baeddel ideology and TIRFism look like, even detached from the name.
Learn what radical feminism looks like, even detached from the name. Even from people who claim to oppose radical feminism.
Act on dogwhistles. Call them what they are.
Do not allow people to downplay the harm all forms of Radical Feminism have caused. Remind each other that Radical Feminism is not a redeemable ideology, and seek out other branches of feminism instead.
Remember the harm that has been caused. Remember that it will be caused again if these things are allowed to go unchecked.
Listen to and uplift marginalized people. Allow them to speak to their own experiences, identify their own needs, and name their own oppression.
Remember who the real oppressors are, and do not pit marginalized people against each other. The people perpetuating and benefiting from transphobia are cis people- and more specifically, cis people in power.
Build solidarity with other marginalized people. One group of trans people cannot gain liberation without liberating all trans people, and one group of trans people cannot be targeted without the rest of us suffering as well.
Remember that there is no group or identity incapable of enacting abuse, violence, harassment, or other harm against another. Victimhood should not be determined based solely on an individual’s identity.
Remember that there are no acceptable targets for violence, cruelty, harassment, and abuse.
Red Flags to watch out for:
Using, or interacting with people who use, “Baeddel” as any form of self-description.
Downplaying the harm original Baeddels did: calling them “misled”, their actions “mistakes”, etc. without acknowledging the specific issues.
Obfuscating, ignoring, or erasing the abuse and rape allegations against members of the Baeddel movement.
Obfuscating, ignoring, or erasing the harm done to other transfemmes by Baeddels.
Dismissing, erasing, punishing/ostracizing, disavowing, or treating with suspicion transfeminine people who do not agree with Baeddel or radfem ideology. Insisting all or most transfemmes agree with Baeddel or radfem ideas.
Claiming TERFs only target, harm, or have ill will for trans women/transfemmes. Using “TWERF” or “TWEF” instead of “TERF”.
Claiming transmasculine people should not have any say in conversations about misogyny, transphobia, and/or TERFs.
Talking about “AFAB Privilege”, or otherwise implying that AFAB people share any qualities aside from being assigned female at birth.
Referring to trans people by AGAB, TME/TMA distinction, or even transfemme/transmasc frequently or exclusively; actively erasing or not allowing room for nonbinary and intersex experiences that do not fall within those binaries.
Implying men- cis or trans- would be better if they were made into women instead.
Implying attraction to men, or being a man, is somehow a “curse” or a “burden”, or otherwise unfortunate.
Implying a fear of men, including trauma-induced phobias, should never be healed from or sought treatment for. Implying men, cis or trans, cannot also experience trauma around men.
Treating trans men or transmasculine people as “acceptable targets” in any way; for harassment, for abuse, for misgendering, for inducing dysphoria, etc.
Implying transmasc dysphoria is “toxic masculinity”
Characterizing transmascs as hysterical, whiny, delusional, crazy, or otherwise using feminine stereotypes.
Implying it is femininity, specifically, that is targeted by the patriarchy; that feminine people are targeted more than masculine people, etc.
Using “listen to transfemmes” to silence other groups of trans people, and otherwise implying transfemmes are a monolith who happen to agree with you.
In general: espousing the ideas, fundamental or otherwise, that defined the Baeddel movement. (including TIRF and radical feminist ideology)
This list is not comprehensive, nor is any one thing on this list 100% certain to indicate that someone is a Baeddel- or if they are, that they are necessarily dangerous. It’s important to keep in mind how many people are groomed into this movement and abused within it; some of those who espouse Baeddel rhetoric may themselves be victimized by others.
But until we recognize these ideas for what they are and where they’ve come from, history can only repeat itself.
Educate Yourself and Others
It would take a long, long time and a lot more space to detail all of the damage done, the people hurt, and the dangers of continuing to allow these ideas to be perpetuated. Instead, I have compiled some resources and references.
I urge you to check these out, bookmark them for later, or whatever else works for you! (They’re also all much, much shorter reads than this has been.)
@baeddel-txt and @rejectedbaeddeldiscourse, two blogs dedicated to documenting various posts and beliefs held by original Baeddels.
Another blog’s tag for Baeddel history.
Baeddel.net, another archive of Baeddelism.
@AcesArosEnbies thread, and @gothmyths thread, on Baeddelism.
@quinndolyn’s recount of Baeddelism.
My own post on the origins of the Baeddel movement.
My own post including posts from Baeddels (and others) as recently as 2018.
An archive of assorted Baeddel posts.
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Seb Headcanon: The Black Plague was an accident, he didn't mean to cause it. The overpopulation of rats was because he hoarded all the cats in his closet.
i’m dYING.
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A lot of people are going to hate me for this, but
Analysis on why Mori treats Yosano and Dazai differently. So, both Dazai and Yosano are implied in the narrative to represent Mori's "children" figures, but for very different reasons. Yosano was a rebel and carefree child with a strong personality, and Mori says that "her fortitude was amazing". We can notice that he was really friendly with her at first. He really admired her, and in particular the way she spoke back and fought against authority, a thing that Mori never really had but wished to have. In short, young Yosano represented what Mori aspired to be. That is why Elise was modeled after her, because abilities in bsd's world are tied with the user's soul. I think that many people misinterpreted Vita Sexualis, it has never been said that ot represents what Mori is attracted sexually too, but it represents what Mori desires. Elise is also a symbol of Mori's guilt, for traumatizing Yosano in that way during the war. He never intended to hurt Yosano in any way because he cared about her, but he felt obligated to do it for the "greater good". Now, let's talk about Dazai. We can see that even from the start, Mori doesn't treat Dazai the way you would normally treat a 14 yrs old, but he treats him like an adult, sort of like he was one of the people working with him. Then plan strategies together, they talk about cruel acts without any bother, and Dazai becomes his right-hand man. This is because Mori knew that Dazai was a really smart, intelligent and dark soul. Mori treated young Dazai so differently because he said multiple times that he reminded him of himself. I think that no one would want to see the darkness that they had in themselves everyday, like a reminder of all those terrible things. Dazai was Mori's reality, the cold truth that he is supposed to serve the city and commit terrible acts for the greater good, while Yosano was his dream of becoming careless.
(This is just my very very personal interpretation ofc!! Everyone has their own opinions which I totally respect. Also, sorry if I wrote anything wrong, I am so sorry lol.)
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Mori Ogai and Regret
Mori in the BSD Manga and Light Novels prides himself in always finding the optimal solution, in pushing his own feelings aside to accomplish the optimal goal for any given situation.
He is a man of logic and carefully wielded cruelty.
We see countless examples of the way he handles things and in the end achieves the best possible solution to his problems.
Killing the old Boss and having Dazai as his witness
Dazai pointing out that he himself is a possible danger to the initial plan
Chuuya remaining a loyal part of the Port Mafia
Driving Dazai away
Getting the Skilled Buisness Permit
The Great War and Yosano
There were all instances where we saw Mori put aside his own emotions and morality to achieve a greater goal. He wielded cruelty, facts and logic as weapons to achieve the in his mind most logical and optimal solution.
But Mori is human. And Humans can not completely disregard and turn off their emotions, no matter how hard they try.
Mori himself says that he has no regrets during the Guild Arc.
But does this like the face of a man void of regrets?
Or this?
In this instance Dazai is choosing the words that will invoke the feeling of Regret in Mori to push him towards choosing a truce with the ADA.
Dazai is aware that Mori has regrets.
But so is Hirotsu.
His inclusion in any conversations Dazai and Mori have regarding the old Boss tells us, as the reader, that Hirotsu knows the full picture.
He isn't just aware that Mori killed the old Boss like other people, but also of Mori's goal from that act.
Hirotsu even goes as far as to tell Mori that Dazai understands why Mori did what he did, implies that Dazai would also understand other actions Mori takes to reach the optimal solution.
But this also shows us something different.
Mori needs reminders.
After Mori killed the old PM Boss Dazai became a constant reminder of why he did what he did. It was inevitable that Dazai would forever remind Mori of the act itself and the initial reasoning behind it, since Dazai was present and Dazai helped him plan it.
Once Dazai left the Mafia Hirotsu transformed into a reminder of it all. In some way Kouyou is also a reminder of what he did and why he did it.
But why these two?
They were there during the reign of the old Boss.
But how does Mori remember the regrets of another part of his past? How does he remind himself of a time where he miscalculated, where he should have taken the emotions of the people he regarded as tools into account?
How is Mori reminded of the mistakes and regrets of the Great War, of Yosano?
Elise.
Elise is Mori's ability, Vita Sexualis. A humanoid puppet to control as he wishes.
But also to shape as he wishes.
During the Great War Elise is nothing more than a robotic being wearing a human skin, void of emotions, thoughts and autonomy.
Mori has always made Elise take the form of a younger girl.
While it is speculated in the fandom that this could be linked to his Lolicon, I believe otherwise.
Elise is for one inspired by the Novel The Dancing Girl from the real life author. But since she is Mori's ability in BSD she will be influenced by his subconcious.
Elise shows us that Mori, even in his twenties, wanted an apprentice. He wanted to impart his knowledge on someone else but until he found Yosano he did not have someone to do this with.
(Im Beast Elise takes the form of a women. Mori already has children to take care of and bestow his knowledge upton, he doesn't need her to fill thie role. But he does need another caretaker, so that is what Elise becomes)
Yosano herself says in the Manga that she respected Mori as a doctor.
Choosing a young and mallable girl as his apprentice did make her easier to manipulate, to create an army that can not die. But young people are also sponges for knowledge.
And here we come to his regret.
Mori does regret how he handled the situation with Yosano.
He liked that strong willed and opinionated young girl he drafted, and he broke her.
We do not see much of Elise until Dark Era, so we can not tell how long it took for Elise to display Yosanos personality after Yosano was redcued by Fukuzawa and Ranpo.
In this official Art we see Yosanos shadow in Elise, a clear indication of teh fact that Mori's impression of Yosano was bleeding into Elise. But we also see her still wearing pigtails.
Her hair and general clothing tells us that this is between loosing Yosano and Dark Era.
With time, Elise will resemble Yosano more.
(The bow resembles the butterfly hairpin of Yosano.)
In this scene Mori tries to convince Elise to try on a new dress.
She refuses and clearly displays Yosano's personality in thsi interaction. From the way Mori handles it this isn't knew.
Their dynamic had already shifted into something more like Yosano and Mori instead of the Ability and Mori.
But her hair is different from the last picture.
Elise now has open and wavy hair. Does this remind you of someone?
(For a boy Dazai has always worn his hair longer than traditional seen as boyish, which in turn let's his ends curl and wave more noticable)
But why would Elise take on appearance markers of Dazai?
Simple.
Because there is something Mori regrets.
He only openly mentiones it in Beast but since Beast is a mirror of Canon, that shows us how different choices will change the same people, we can assume this are also the feelings of Canon!Mori.
Mori regrets not being able to really help Dazai.
And his regret will only get deeper as he makes another choice for an optimal solution.
Driving Dazai away and getting Oda killed fulfilled many positives for Mori, what he reached was the optimal solution.
He just had to lose his right hand man.
(Light Novel Dark Era)
This is not the behavior of a man not regretting driving away the boy he cared about for 4 years to this point.
To this day Mori leaves Dazai's spot as executive open. He invited Dazai back into the Mafia.
And when we see Elise after Dark Era she has changed once again.
But this time it is not her appearance that changed, it is her attitude.
Elise displays a very much Dazai-like attitude when talking to Mori.
Where Yosano - and until the end of Dark Era Elise - were strong in their oppinion but polite and steadfast in their refusal, Dazai was bargaining.
Dazai more often than not wanted something in exchange for doing something he deemed unpleasant/bothersome/boring.
During the recent timeline Elise also does this.
She doesn't just refuse things, she makes deals.
And she doesn't lie during negotiations, just like Dazai.
In the end Elise changes to be more like the people Mori feels a form of regret over. Elise is a constant reminder of his Regrets and Mistakes.
To support this, here are Asagiris words about Mori from the BSD Exhibition:
“He who fell out of the optimal solution”
Mori Ougai’s belief as the boss is described in the novel “Dark Era” and “Dazai, Chuuya, Fifteen”. That is “The boss stands on top of the organization, and at the same time, be the slave of all.” For the sake of the organization, the boss must always take the “logical optimal solution.” That is the duty of the boss.
There is an unspoken additional point to it. “Therefore, no matter how much your heart aches, you have to ignore your personal feelings.” We can catch a glimpse of that in this scene. [the ADA-PM alliance meeting]
Mori’s expressions after “Burnt it.” and “Like what you did to your predecessor”, gave us a glimpse of his true feelings that were made sacrifices for the sake of the “logical optimal solution”.
[Translation by @popopretty here on Tumblr]
A true optimal solution would leave Mori with no regrets.
But whenever Elise changes and reminds him of regrets he feels, it is also a reminder of the time he did not truly reach an optimal solution.
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Fuck the people making memes fuck the people doing ‘analyses’ of media fuck the people going “ I told you so” fuck the people using this as an opportunity to demonize certain groups of people fuck the people who use slurs and threats fuck the people doxxing and harassing and pressuring ANYONE involved or who may be involved how about you guys actually trying doing something helpful and supportive instead of trying to soothe your own hurt feelings and playing ‘justice warrior’ for people who never asked while witch hunting anyone who isn’t having the exact reaction as you at the exact same pace
#I feel like I’m dreaming#not noelle#wilbur soot#william gold#shelby shubble#myct fandom critical#I don’t even know what to call it#or tag any of this#both Noelle and not Noelle for this one#wilbur soot abuse
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In the midst of all of this I want to say thank you to Shelby for speaking about her abusive situation, because you really don't think it is abuse until you are no longer being abused.
It's not even immeadete it takes a long time, and then you feel silly for trying to be their friend at all.
And more so, when it's odd stuff like that, things that you usually don't think about, like 'biting' as abusive, or about spending a lot of money as abusive, or living in filth, or being constantly lied to, and made to believe like you were the 'crazy person' in that situation.
But it is abusive, and it is dangerous, and you shouldn't be treated that way. Being resented by your partner, and purposefully injured by them, it's terrible mistreament that nobody deserves.
You don't realize how bad it is until you see it happening to somebody else, and you think, of course nobody deserves to be harmed by the person they love, of course I didn't deserve to be harmed either.
So I want to thank Shelby for being so brave, and bringing visibility to these different ways of abuse, as she said, abuse doesn't just look like punching or hitting somebody, even if it isn't 'dramatically' violent it is still abuse.
And her being brave has made people like me feel seen, and I think it will help many other people in similar situations recgonize that they are being mistreated, and that they deserve to be helped too.
Shelby is an inspiration to me now, for being able to make good in the world even after being harmed like that.
I am so happy she's got so many cool friends in her corner. She is so cool
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Mcyt people: why aren't these ccs immediately condemning their friend who was outed for this horrible thing that might completely alter their worldview of him without warning, don't they care to at least support the victim????
Mcyt people when the abuser makes a shitty response and ccs start condemning him: wow I didn't expect this 🥰🥰 it's amazing to see them do this in such a short period of time 🥰🥰🥰 it sounds like these ccs also suffered from him too, so it's important for them to take their time to create the right response 🥰🥰🥰
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i hope shelby has The Weight off her chest now. i hope she heals i hope she has all the support and love from her friends i hope she's doing well . because what she went through was a reeling confusing loathing experience that no one should ever go through. but people do , and her speaking about her abuse helps other victims to identify it within their own lives. it can be so difficult to recognize it and Im so proud of her and her fortitude . i dont have much to say as i dont watch her but i can only wish her all the best and send her all the love i can <3
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Well, the statement is out and it has been confirmed by Wilbur himself that he was the one that Shelby was talking about.
The statement that he put out did align with what I was thinking that he would say. It has been no secret that he has been a dark mental state for the past year and a half and that he has been working on himself so that this was mentioned came to no surprise.
And while I am glad that he did admit that it was him and that he did not stay silent or deny everything, he is not taking full accountability for how he hurt a person so badly. By not daring to say that his actions were abusive, he is downplaying the situation which leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
The statement was not an apology, it was a PR statement to state his side of view of things which he should be able to share and which I do think was the best move for him. I believe that the only apology he needs to make is to the people that he hurt and manipulated so that the statement was not an apology to his fans etc is not the issue. It is not uncommon that a person with issues and bad mental health does not realise that their actions are abusive in the moment, so that he alludes to that also does not surprise me. I can even believe it to an extent and I am glad that he is working on this with therapy. But, it is way too early to say that he has made great strides as a person.
Especially, the last sentence of his statement of wanting to be held to high standards that he wished to attain and maintain, left me feeling physically sick. The language is so manipulative and he is missing the complete point of why he needs to address this whole situation in the first place.
The biggest issue with the statement and him in general is the lack of accountability and downplaying the situation. The reactions of fellow creators such as Aimsey and Ranboo clearly demonstrate this. Reframing the biting issues, leaving out other harmful actions and only taking taking account for his "slobbish, disrespectful and selfish" state during the time he was dating Shubble.
I think if he had taken full responsibility for his actions and promised to keep working on himself and addressing these issues in the (long) time that he is away, he could have made a comeback eventually with a smaller audience. But coming back from this will be difficult and rightfully so.
At the end of the day, I believe that he is a highly disturbed person with lots of issues. This is not a surprise, as I think many fans of him knew about his mental struggles and how this translated to his music and story telling. It is why a lot of us found comfort in him in the first place. I just never imagined that he would turn that emotional and mental instability to others.
You are not responsible for what you feel but you are responsible for what you do with those emotions. It is never an excuse to harm others. Something that Wilbur clearly has not learned nor has he learned to take full accountability. Please note that this situation is therefore also not an excuse to doxx or send death threats to him or any other creator involved.
Like I have mentioned when the situation came out, I will no longer support him and I will step away from him. Whether you want to do the same is up to you. If you want to stop watching his content, stop supporting/listening to Lovejoy and to what extend or stop watching his close friends and cc's, that is your choice to make. Nobody can accept Wilbur's apology except the people harmed by his actions, and that will certainly not happen any time soon.
If you are going through a hard time, please talk with others about it and my dm's are open.
Send your love to Shelby and support victims. Please take care of yourself.
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I'm so fucking angry at him. The abuse itself is the main thing, but also the gall it takes to lie like that and present yourself as some kind of feminist, as some kind of ally. To make a whole series parodying the all to common experiences of harassment and misogyny women face. For him to build a fanbase of young people, mostly women who appreciated this. And for the damage he's caused. Again, not the main part of this whole situation, but big enough I felt the need to make a post. Fuck him for all the stress, grief, trauma, betrayal, guilt and shame he's now caused my friends and me. Fuck him.
I love my friends here. To see them dealing with this upsets me greatly. Maybe it's the fact that I was always less involved in that circle of CCs or CCs in general versus actual DSMP lore. Maybe it's the fact that i've been drifting away from MCYT content in general outside of my own niche interests in one aspect of the DSMP. Either way, I'm hurt on behalf of my friends, on behalf of all of us who bonded and made art and friends and memories and are now having to deal with the painful realization that a part of that is forever sullied. Fuck him.
I'm going to wait to see what happens before I make any decisions, but It hurts regardless. I really hope this at least marks a turning point in how this fandom- and it's ccs handle abuse. It's never confined to just one group, whether that be a friend group, SMP, hell even fandom. Things like the Bystander effect, and our culture inherently promoting things like keeping the peace or portraying abuse as one monolithic experience are systemic issues to be tackled by more than just tumblr posts.
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fuck bro i don’t know what to do. i love lovejoy’s music so much, its been comforting and uplifting for so long and now its just.. empty. why can’t people be good?? he had the chance to give a genuine apology and he botched it. i’m all for second chances, but this,, i don’t know man :(
I'm sorry, it really really sucks to lose comfort in music you found so much joy in. He had a chance to give a genuine apology and show he was aware of what he did and that he wanted to improve, and he didn't. And that sucks. There's no more eloquent way to say it. It sucks.
I also hope Shelby's okay. She has plenty of friends on her side, and I know she said she's been moving past him and all the ways he hurt her. We can only hope her path forward is filled with so much love and support.
I hope you're doing okay. Take care and be kind to yourself. We're all going through it right now but you're not in this alone. We've all been hurt by this
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rather than setting ridiculous expectations and "deadlines" on when and how you expect ccs to respond to their friend and fellow creator being outed as an abuser, how about instead you offer them some grace to mourn the years of time and friendship lost, and to collect their thoughts and feelings on the matter.
rushed statements on situations such as this help no one, and the people who were his close friends are likely in enough turmoil as it is - not to mention they have other things going on in their lives.
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I do think its important that, like the dream situation, we don't treat this like a "don't stop the party" situation. Like it's not actually funny or a YAY people don't like him anymore moment. It's awful and cheering at all doesn't feel appropriate
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the fact that niki's statement starts with "i see people expect me to say something" seriously fuck off
people should NOT be expected to give a statement or be sentenced to be complicit with shit
in what world is that a normal thing to expect
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