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aayilahkaylee · 3 years

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Carbon as a major factor in the origin of life and carbonated water.

Summary: They both think too much and are highly interpretive of their surroundings - objectively, of course. So it is inevitable that they will do the same with their soul mate brands, but things will look really simple on a trip to the zoo, where many carbon-based life forms are gathered, an element that is also part of their trademark formula.

Notes: This is part of the first challenge done on Twitter by @DcstChallenges, with the theme of soulmates. Don't hesitate to join on twitter and participate or support future challenges.

The system of soulmate identification was nothing more than an inefficient diversity of methods with a huge margin of error or at least ambiguity.

Statistics and probability confirmed this, Senku made use of these calculations in trying to understand this phenomenon, ruling out unprovable facts such as the resonance of dreams or thoughts, or slightly questionable ones such as writing on one's own skin and this also appearing on the other person's (how many could be writing on their own skin and inventing that it was their soulmate who had written to them?). Also the countdowns to over a thousand years were also proof of the untruthfulness that came with it.

Rooted to the facts, the mark on Ishigami Senku's right forearm was supposed to be the mark of his soul mate, but to him it was nothing more than the affirmation that he loved science.

At a certain point, he came to think that simply marks like his did not mean that someone was his soulmate, but that they simply had similar enough tastes or interests that they could hit it off. Which would explain why most people who found his markings ended up being a couple.

On his arm was tattooed the formula NaHCO₃, one of the most important compounds in history, to which he gave the meaning of being what proved that his destiny was science.

On the contrary, Asagiri Gen wondered if among his peers there would be someone whose first word they would cross with him would be that compound; would they pronounce it as the formula read, or would they simply say 'sodium bicarbonate'?

Eventually, his peculiar mark of soul mate became just another joke in his extensive repertoire, with the formula actually demonstrating his deep love of soda, with every bottle of cola that fell into his hands being his destiny.

They didn't think about it often, in fact they even forgot they had such a mark as they were so focused on their respective scientific and psychological/magical matters. So that Saturday, the marks on their arms were not foremost in their brains, instead they found themselves early in the morning preparing to leave for the zoo.

Byakuya found it opportune to distract his busy eleven year old son from incessant curiosity from time to time, offering visits that were stimulating and fun enough that Senku couldn't refuse, though there was no way he would have declined because he appreciated the old man's affectionate intentions... sometimes, when he didn't force him to wear a cap because of the sun.

At the same time, with the pressure of socialisation and the opportunity to experiment with his own charisma, Gen spouted witty remarks and questions to uncover those classmates who invited him on this outing. Exploiting his charisma and his wit to make their company more pleasant, until he was able to get a break after the lion section, offering his companions to set aside a table until they returned with snacks.

Had Senku perhaps taken two seconds longer to heed his periphery, he would have continued the tour with his father to leave and subsequently go for a bite to eat together, but inevitably he noticed the wrist of a young man of about fourteen or fifteen.

NaHCO₃

And he immediately asked Byakuya to pause, sending him to sit down to wait, which the elder somehow interpreted as a coy statement that Senku was hungry, so like a good tutor he retreated to get food.

Senku adjusted the straps of his backpack and positioned himself in front of the jet-haired boy, who was arranging a pair of pretentious sunglasses. He thought of a few probing questions, certain that the young man in front of him was also a science buff (What else could that mark mean?).

But Gen won the speak, slightly taken aback. "Are you lost?" he asked at the boy's sudden appearance.

So Senku dismissed all the questions he had thought of, remembering where they were and convinced that Gen was there for academic reasons.

"Elephant gestation lasts about twenty-two months and during elephant pregnancy the calf grows to a hundred or a hundred and fifty kilograms." he said.

‘Huh?!’

Senku counted thirty seconds, in which his determination showed in the way his brow tightened with each passing second. Gen remained expressionless despite the discomfort, inwardly contorting his face in stupefaction ‘What the hell is this...?!’

"Hah~," he regained his composure immediately and smiled. "as interesting as elephants being afraid of bees." replied, assuming this was one of those kids who liked fun facts... until realised he was looking for something more technical. "It's because bees can get into the mucous membranes and delicate parts of the elephant like the trunk, mouth or eyes and sting them. Of course, they can't pierce their skin, but you should know that.

This time it took ten seconds, which made the major sweat, until Senku smiled slyly.

"Not bad." the younger acknowledged.

Immediately, feeling a great deal of encouragement to exchange his extensive knowledge with Gen, he surmised that perhaps such chemical reactions, like the one he was feeling, were the explanation for why people who could not see colours got it when they met the person they matched with. Or how eye colour could change when they met, nothing more than physiological reactions related to hormones and perhaps genetic compatibility.

Interest was also piqued in Gen, who was trying to explain why Senku had taken the seat next to him so deliberately. When would he get the chance to meet someone so slightly peculiar again? The intrigue to know how effective his skill would be with this boy was agitating.

"Are you sure you're not lost." Gen echoed, holding his hands out to his sides in an effort to appear receptive. Senku's body language indicated he was being cautious. "Your parents won't be angry that you got separated from them, animals and information plates are so entertaining that they do this all the time."

Senku denied, lifting his face from the horizon to Gen. "You assume I'm coming with my family when the likelihood of me coming for a school trip is seventy-five percent, considering the offer they have for students on weekends." replied quizzically at that miscalculation.

If this kid had information about the elephants' pregnancy, why was Gen surprised that he also knew that accurate figure?

"You're right from a monetary and practical perspective," Gen said, not doubting that Senku was correct. "but, statistically, weekends are used for family and friends." the boy seemed unhappy that Gen didn't give an accurate figure "I think if you came with friends, you would have been lost together, and you don't look angry enough to explain away an argument."

Because of his sullen nature, Senku looked at him incredulously, slightly annoyed by the blatantly accurate analysis. He attributed his discomfort to the lack of numerical data that could have helped him compare and assimilate the diagnosis.

"Go on." Senku demanded.

Gen's hands continued the expressive mimicry, unconsciously showing his mar. "If it was a school trip, your teacher would have already reported you missing, the same applies if you were accompanied by the parents or relatives of your friends; the responsibility for a child who doesn't belong to them would have already mobilised them. I see you're learning a lot, but the absence of an alarmed teacher" Gen glanced around before continuing. "-means that a school trip is not the case."

"Efficient, a ten billion percent efficient." Senku credited.

All it took was a push. "Or could this be a distress call?" Gen moved slightly closer to add privacy. "Are you running away from someone?" he added in a sympathetic, empathetic tone.

Senku closed his eyes, weary of the other's deductions. "Fine, my father couldn't wait for us to go out to get something to eat, I know exactly where he is."

Gen smirked, proud that he had so neatly broken down the boy's suspicious barriers "So you came to me to entertain yourself in the meantime?" he remarked, considering he was apparently the only one who was also alone in waiting and thus became Senku's target. "You don't seem like the kindly type who would come up with an interesting fact just to entertain others without getting something in return." he mentioned intentionally.

If it was not help the younger man required, was looking for something more, an his restless gaze confirmed it.

The small, calloused hand pointed to Gen's forearm. "Your mark, it means sodium bicarbonate." said.

Among the things Gen expected to hear next was not his mark of a soul mate "I'm aware of that." replied. He wasn't aware of was that wearing a short-sleeved shirt in the heat would attract the attention of a stranger that day.

Senku smiled. The older might be different from what expected in terms of methodology and analysis, but that he knew the significance of his tattoo evidently earned him a ten billion points.

Gen for his part recalled the Monster Hunter player who explained the original use of NaHCO₃ for soda, which was the origin of the joke that, looking the boy straight in the eye, he backed away from wanting to change to an allusion to cheating on chemistry exams.

"Do you know what it means?" Senku asked with abrupt energy. Revolutionary inventions and the many uses of NaHCO₃ flashed through his head.

Unexpectedly, that excitement rubbed off on Gen and he replied. "I know what it means. "

Byakuya didn't wonder at first why Senku had decided to leave his arm exposed for the rest of the tour. The heat was reason enough... until he noticed that his son kept staring at the mark when he always downplayed it.

"In the rest area there was a boy who had the same mark as me." Senku revealed, making his father's jaw drop to the floor.

Sure, it had to be something like that, but Byakuya could never have guessed it was that encounter. And it wasn't his fault either, the last time Senku had been dismayed by his mark, it was when he explained to a stranger in Monster Hunter the uses of NaHCO₃, pleading for the component's inclusion in more video games.

As a result, Byakuya dragged Senku back to the zoo in search of his soulmate, admonishing him for being so insensitive and for letting the encounter go unnoticed without remorse. Disgruntled, Senku reaffirmed that all this talk of love and romance was as tedious as it was counterproductive.

Gen was satisfied on the way to the train station, the talk he had with the boy stretching into a mutually stimulating mix of technical commentary on carbon and life on earth, and a smattering of curiosities and humorous observations that he knew would please the youngster. He had been put to a demanding test, in a way that none of his companions could ever have done.

Which was perhaps why he ignored them until one mentioned:

"Asagiri, that boy you were talking to when we arrived, I saw him before we left and on his forearm he had a mark similar to yours." he alluded hesitantly.

The pieces fell into place... and Gen lost his senses once again.

It certainly wasn't the first and wouldn't be the last time sodium bicarbonate would bring them together under a new manifestation.

#sengen #senku #gen #dr stone #I'M SO BAD WITH ENGLISH #SORRY IF I WROTE SOMETHING WRONG #soulmates #byakuya

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bookwyrminspiration · 3 years

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It's Nilnaea! Considering that elves physically cannot handle guilt, how did Sophie survive her first twelve years without shutting down? There's no way she could have avoided feeling guilty or remorseful over something when she was living with humans. Guilt is impossible to avoid--doubly so when she's clearly living with some pretty severe anxiety and depression. I can easily imagine her feeling guilty over causing her parents anxiety.

Not to mention, in the first book, she feels guilty over cheating on her alchemy exam without showing signs of psychic (I don't know how else to put it) strain. Do you think she could be immune to this because of her genetic engineering, or is it nature-versus-nurture? In the case of genetic engineering, the implications of the Black Swan having information that Vespera tortured humans to get is very interesting. (On that note, in Unlocked, there's a mention of Sophie wanting the Nightfall experiment information to go public. I really want that to happen!)

hello, Nilnaea! thanks for your patience as I work my way through my asks!! this is actually a question that's bugged me for a while, I've just never really talked about it, so it's nice to see someone else bringing it up! I thought it was just something no one else really cared about, as I have a tendency to focus on unimportant details.

like? humans are inevitably going to make mistakes and feel guilt over them, so it just doesn't make sense to me that Sophie could go her whole life without feeling guilty over something. Even just the idea of Elves being unable to handle guilt itself raises so many questions for me

thought: perhaps a lot of the poor behavior (judgement and scorn) exhibited by so many elves is a product of no guilt. in some situations, guilt is how you learn. intense emotional reactions and feeling remorseful for your actions can really make an impression on someone and alter their future behavior. some of the most important social lessons I learned (as someone who isn't good as socializing and frequently makes mistakes) have been through fucking up, sometimes awfully, and the resulting guilt is what prevented me from doing anything like that ever again. my inability to recognize how I affected others has severally hurt (emotionally) other people, which is why I'm so careful with what I say now. but if elves don't have that, if they're taught not to acknowledge how their action's affects make them feel, they never get that internal feedback or learning experience. so they just keep being shitty to each other eternally.

also, you're very right. she's clearly got something like anxiety/depression going on, or at the very least she's relatable to those of us who have those disorders. even just at the beginning of book one I think she felt guilty for all the stress and trouble she consistently brought to her parents as the gifted kid. she already knew how her mothers sentence would end (the "I just wish you were normal like your sister") so i'm assuming that's happened before. The guilt she'd feel just for existing differently and not understanding why (very appealing character for neurodivergent people) would be crippling. it can take so much work to look at yourself and just accept you're never going to fit in the way everyone else does, and that it's not a bad thing and you can live a perfectly fine life without fitting in like that. but especially at that age (for some reason middle school age--and specifically 7th grade) is absolute torture emotionally).

oh! i'd forgotten about the alchemy exam thing--the story has come a long way since then. I think a broken mind is both a combination of time and intensity of the guilt experienced, as Elwin said Alden's mind broke because it was so much guilt that he let fester for so long. So perhaps because she recognized the guilt and immediately rectified the situation, it wasn't there long enough for it to really impact her. But that does bring me back to the nd vibes she gives off in her childhood, as I think that's enough stress/guilt over a long enough period of time that she should've broken (shout out to anyone else whose mind would've broken as a child if they were an elf, cause I know I would've).

okay okay hang on, going back to what I was saying about guilt being a way to learn things, that could tie into your nature-vs-nurture suggestion. If sophie was raised human, she probably was taught how to manage and regulate her emotions in such a way that she could learn from her guilt and use it to better herself, because I don't believe for a second she was good in social situations and probably said some things she later felt guilty about. So perhaps her human upbringing protects her from the catastrophe that is elven guilt. But I could also see it being the genetic engineering, as she's shown to interact with emotions differently than anyone else when it comes to her inflicting. Perhaps her ability to inflict positive emotions proves that she doesn't interact with her feelings or process things in an elvin way, instead taking a human approach that protects her. Though we could also attribute that to nature vs nurture.

as for the human experiments, I think it would be super interesting to see what happens. I don't think that horrible history should be hidden or that elves should be allowed to continue to feel like they're superior, but just what would happen would be fascinating to read. it would rock the elvin world to the core, which is why Bronte said it shouldn't be released. But its also embarrasing to them, because they don't like experimenting on things. The whole thing with genetic purity and all that, so to know that it's such a huge part of their history and they actually weren't justified in cutting the humans off would be such a shift.

the classification of humans as no longer an intelligent species (which is a whole conversation on it's own) would be suddenly without reason, elves taking advantage of this power they granted themselves. i don't know if they could be reincorporated, but it would badly affect the elves. There's just so much to consider and i'm running low on time atm but this is an absolutely fascinating discussion so thank you so much for bringing it up

Nilnaea, you have some excellent observations!! thank you so much for sharing them with me!!

#if I missed a part of this idea just let me know and i'd be happy to go back to cover it!!#I have a class starting in ten minutes so I got a little distracted towards the end #but the whole concept is really interesting #both the guilt as a whole and the nightfall things #hnng so many thoughts #and sophie being relatable to nd people as well #i saw you sent me another ask about that!! or something similar to that #which I will answer!! probably after class!!#but this is so interesting I love it so much #kotlc #keeper of the lost cities #quil's queries #nilnaea nonsie #long post #sophie foster #elven guilt

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arnavsinghraizada · 4 years

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Hey Amrit! You are the Arnav expert so I wanted to ask you, what do you think makes Arnav so different from Anjali when they both went through the same thing?

Hello friend! ...Wow!! That is quite possibly the nicest thing ever, that's so kind of you. I should put that in my bio now haha, The Arnav Expert. Thank you, I own the title now.

That's an extremely interesting question and I'd like to start off my answer with a counter-point. Arnav and Anjali did not go through the same thing.

They encountered the same stimulus, yes. However, their reactions were very different and that's because they're different people. Gender and ability (among probably many other factors) play a large role in adapting and reacting. I would argue that it's less what your gender is, more so what your understanding of gender is. Whether your definitions of masculinity and femininity include there being one caretaker and one more subservient being? I would also argue that Arnav and Anjali's definitions do include these things. We see from an early point that Arnav's personality tends to run to stoicism and aggression even before his parents died. He's always had an attitude problem and it's also implied that his attitude could be genetic. Dadiji goes out of her way to say that his father also had an attitude problem and that Arnav reminds her of him because of it.

So, I wouldn't say that Arnav's aggression and anger come exclusively from a response to a traumatic event. I would say that those traits were amplified in an effort to protect himself from the after-effects of the event. There's also the fact that research has shown that people can have a genetic susceptibility to trauma responses, that might also explain why Arnav could develop the symptoms of PTSD post-exposure to trauma, but Anjali does not. It has to do with reduced hippocampal volume (to put it very simply). These changes can increase an individual's likelihood of acquiring symptoms of PTSD. I don't have access to Arnav's brain scans so I cannot say this with certainty but hey, who knows?

There's also the fact that Arnav and Anjali seem to have been socialized in a very odd way even before the traumatic event. My hypothesis is that Anjali was always coddled as a result of her polio, and so it was naturally understood that Arnav would one day assume a protective role (not to mention he seemed already inclined to being protective as a personality trait). I would argue this because I cannot imagine the degree to which this might have been pushed on them in order to facilitate such a natural shift within the entire Raizada family to Arnav becoming Anjali's ... guardian. Anjali accepts this, Mamaji and Mamiji (the actual adults) also accept this, so does Nani. No one questions this. So Anjali lost her parents, her marriage broke off but at least she still had her brother.

Arnav lost his parents (in fact he WITNESSED it happen - Anjali did not), and then became the guardian to his older sister after being kicked out at age 14. My understanding of Arnav's understanding of his masculinity involves a gravitation towards the role of provider. In being forced into this position, he was also forced to confront what he could code as a failing in his own masculinity. This construction of the persona of ASR was a gradual one built of overcoming any potential shortcomings in fulfilling this role. The absence of vulnerability. Anjali does not seem to have been socialized to feel this way. In fact, Anjali found solace in religion instead. I would argue that Anjali's devoutness is actually also a trauma response. This overt reliance on the idea of circumstances being entirely outside of her control and in the hands of a higher power allows for her to avoid confronting the darker side of life and relationships. This kind of behaviour is a cognitive distortion. Now, some allowance could be made for the fact that this might not be a cross-cultural understanding of these ideas.

However, Anjali's response to what should be commonplace events but fall under the potential banner of being 'inauspicious,' are very disproportionate. Her father cheated on her mother but she doesn't see this as even a remote possibility in her own relationship. I would say this isn't because she trusts him sooo blindly, but more so because she hasn't really processed that her father made an active choice to be unfaithful and that it could happen to anybody. Now, Anjali (and I do love her) loves attention. In particular, she prizes Arnav's attention. She never really had reason to believe it might not be hers until after Shyam's first reveal. That, coupled with the obvious stress of everything else happening and being pregnant, resulted in some very manipulative and maladaptive behaviour. Now, I again attribute this to their upbringing but I think Anjali knows how to twist people's arms to get her way without getting her own hands dirty. We've seen this many times but what presses me the most is that Anjali uses her health and well-being as a tool against Arnav a few times. A few times that I can distinctly recall that is. I would say that this is her version of the anger Arnav displays.

While Arnav feels rage because of everything he lost and had thrown at him, Anjali craves attention and security.

TLDR: In closing, I would say that they experienced different things. These things acted on personalities that were already radically different and exacerbated pre-existing understandings of gender relations. In addition, Anjali is not nearly as well-adjusted as people might like to imagine.

#ipkknd #arnav singh raizada #my alpha husband #anjali raizada #analysis #amrit barks

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of-muppets-and-men · 5 years

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Qrow as Ruby’s Dad

I am fully aware of the ugly can of worms I am opening just by discussing this but whatever. Here we go.

Just a disclaimer, I mean no disrespect to Monty, Miles or Kerry. I am simply stating the possibility and leaving all options on the table.

The idea of Qrow being Ruby’s biological father has been around since Qrow was introduced back in Volume 3. And although it’s been shot down by the creator and current writers of the show, I’m going to go over as much I can to show that the theory/headcanon still has some level of validity.

This is also pretty long so brace yourself.

Point #1: The Writers

Monty originally “debunked” this theory while dismissing another by saying Yang and Ruby were half-sisters. And recently it was debunked again by Miles, who outright said Qrow wasn’t her dad. The word of the Writer’s is, under most circumstances, Law. But let me say this: What is the one thing you are supposed to do above all else? Preserving your narrative, meaning doing everything you can to protect your plot.

Many writers have concealed or just lied to their audience about certain plot points to maintain the story. And just because Monty, Miles and Kerry don’t seem like they would, doesn’t mean they aren’t capable of it.

Why would Monty lie? Because Ruby and Yang being sisters was what he had presented at the time. Qrow was only a name at the time, so revealing so detrimental so soon wouldn’t make any sense for the show’s longevity. Thus, he kept his lips sealed.

Now there’s Miles; why would he outright deny this theory. Well, if I had to guess, it would be to quell the speculation, to stop people from outwardly talking about it. Has he succeeded? For the most part, yes. Fans and Haters alike have stopped discussing it en mass, but it hasn’t stopped fanfic writers and artists much.

While debunking this theory, Miles gave his reasoning to be “Ruby just admires him so much that she mimics a lot of what Qrow does.”.

Let’s unpack that for a moment.

What about Ruby’s character is reminiscent of Qrow? Ruby is, by all accounts, opposite to Qrow in many facets of her personality. She overwhelmingly optimistic, despite witnessing the deaths of Penny and Pyrrha. She’s open and honest, though a bit naive and socially awkward, but after all she’s still a teenager. Qrow, from the few accounts we know of, is actually pretty suave and quite the ladies man too.

Basically, anything Ruby is, Qrow is not. The only real thing that statement applies too, is her love of her scythe, but even then that argument is flimsy. As an impressionable young girl with a passion for weapons/huntsman, and then seeing her uncle wielding the coolest weapon in entire show; I mean who wouldn’t want a scythe at that point.

Point #2: Appearance

First and foremost, the most obvious thing people tend to bring up; Ruby’s appearance. In current canon, Taiyang is Ruby’s father, but you’d never be able to tell as they share absolutely no physical traits or attributes. Already a bit strange, no? Now I get Ruby is SUPPOSED to be a near spitting image of her mom, Summer Rose, but to no share anything with Tai is a bit of stretch.

Then there’s Yang in stark (hehe) contrast; who is a near even split of her parents. She has Raven’s long bushy hair, is taller than most other girls, has Raven’s general shape of face and paler skin, but is blonde and has lilac eyes; a combination of Raven’s red eyes and Tai’s blue eyes (even though that isn’t how genetics works but whatever). Even Yang’s outfits have been greatly inspired by Tai’s in terms of colour palette and design.

Even comparing other characters within RWBY, such as Weiss, Blake or Ren, have a striking resemblance to both their parents/siblings. So for Ruby to not designed in a similar fashion is odd to say the least. Ruby isn’t exactly identical to Qrow by means, she stills shares a great deal more with Qrow than we’ve ever seen with Taiyang.

Qrow is also a fraternal twin. Or in other words, Ruby is also liable to look like Raven too. Male and Female character models are different looking in RWBY, so it’s reasonable to think to Ruby would share some traits with her could-be aunt.

Ruby’s current overall aesthetic has subtle cues from both Qrow and Summer. Dark but red tipped hair, her mother’s eyes and a near identical outfit. Ruby’s cloak is red and tattered like Qrow’s, but large and hooded like Summer’s. Her aura is red, but generates flower petals when she uses her semblance. Ruby even had Cross as her emblem, until it was changed to be the same as her mom’s. But even still, she had cross pins in her cloak till her outfit change in Volume 4. Only one character shares this cross motif, and it’s you guessed it, Qrow.

One minor thing is that Ruby’s alternative outfit in Volume 2, dubbed Slayer, gives her a noticeably large resemblance to Qrow; even more so than her current or former outfits.

I’m very aware that any of this could be just simple coincidence and random choices in design but let me say this. Colour is an underlying basis for RWBY, and it plays a semi essential role in the show’s lore. So for it’s main protagonist’s colour pallette have next to nothing to do with her actual parent, but share parallels and such to someone she has no genetic relation to is, to me, unbelievably suspect. If Ruby was a strawberry blonde or even a bit tanned, we wouldn’t be even having this discussion, but given everything we know, it just doesn’t add up.

I’ve seen a handful of people say that it doesn’t matter that Ruby doesn’t look like Taiyang or It’s okay because not all children look like both parents. Well that may be true in reality, but in RWBY, this is contrary to the underlying theme of the show.

Point #3: Ruby’s Mentor

Let’s look at Ruby’s phenomenal skill with the scythe. As we well know, Qrow was her mentor and taught her most of her current fighting skills. However, this begs the question of why Qrow taught her and not Taiyang. Taiyang is incredibly skilled at hand to hand combat and is evidently a good teacher, as he trained Yang and currently still is a professor/licensed huntsman.

So why is Ruby so utterly abysmal without Crescent Rose? Since she’s Tai’s daughter, you’d think she’d be at least somewhat talented like Yang but such isn’t the case here. Why would Taiyang heavily train Yang, but leave Ruby practically defenseless (given her dream of being a huntress too)? Seems a bit strange no matter how you look at it.

However. There is something I noticed about Qrow. We know and seen how badass he is with Harbinger in tow; his skills are nothing to scoff at. Many in the RWBY universe are aware of Qrow’s prowess and would prefer to not engage him at all. But when Harbinger was wretched from his hand during his fight with Tyrian, he showed that he is capable without his weapon.

The thing that’s intriguing is he looked very rigid and doesn’t seem too confident without his scythe, especially comparing him to hand-to-hand combatants like Yang or Mercury. It felt like it was just a ‘screw it’ moment so to speak. A weird thing to point out, I know, but it creates another parallel between him and Ruby. Masters of the scythe that don’t fare too well without it.

Point #4: Ruby’s Name

A small thing to point is why Ruby has her surname as Rose. Ruby Xiao Long doesn’t flow off the tongue by any stretch, but there must be some other reason why she hasn’t taken Tai’s last name. Is it to honour Summer? Or is it because she isn’t a Xiao Long at all?

Now a point I don’t love but must mention is the line from Qrow’s theme song Bad Luck Charm.

The line in question is “You don’t want the burden of my name”. Many believe it is Qrow referring to Ruby and how she’s better not being known as a Branwen. As Qrow mentioned, his tribe is a group of “killers and thieves” and likely didn’t want a innocent child to be associated with such a group. There’s a chance it could mean he deliberately convinced Summer to let Ruby have her name, to protect her from the Tribe’s retribution. If Ruby was a Branwen on top of being a SEW, it would likely make her a target for not only Salem’s forces but bounty hunters too. (Going after Ruby to punish the “Traitor” so to speak)

Point #5: Qrow’s Semblance

An argument against Qrow being Ruby’s Dad is that it doesn’t make sense to hide the truth from her but then teach her the most difficult weapon to master in Remnant. While at first glance, this is a fair argument, but let me dive a bit deeper.

In Episode 8 of Volume 4, we learned that Qrow’s semblance is Misfortune. It intermittently causes bad luck to every person around him, from simple inconveniences like a bartender dropping a glass to life threatening things like a massive beam almost falling on Ruby. This gives him a logical reason for his loner persona.

He can’t control what will and can happen to his friends, his allies, or his family. He is, much to his own grief, a constant danger to those he loves. Why does this matter? Because he’d be Ruby’s only remaining parent; meaning she’d always want to be with him, ironically putting herself in more danger. He’d keep the truth from her until she was hopefully old to understand why he kept it from her.

Qrow was also a former Professor at Signal Academy. Though most of the details of his career as a teacher are sadly unknown, It can be at least gathered his semblance wasn’t potent enough to cause too much trouble on campus or he’d have never been allowed as a teacher in the first place (perhaps it’s less effective in crowds?).

Now Qrow likely would have trained Ruby in a controlled environment to ensure his semblance would cause as little damage as possible. Qrow and Ruby are arguably the two closest characters in the series as far as we know and they have been shown to be this way. They understand each other, know each other’s mannerisms and Ruby even gets Qrow pervy jokes. So it’s no shock to think Qrow knew much she idolized the hunter lifestyle and helped her live out her dream, all the while getting to spend time with his baby girl.

Point #6: The Timeline

Another thing many have taken note of is the amount of time it took Taiyang to father both Yang and Ruby. The math is a bit difficult as we don’t know Yang’s birthday, but let’s get an estimate.

As of Volume 6, Yang is about 19 and Ruby is about 17.

Ruby’s birthday is October 31st, so she was conceived near the end of January or early February. Yang was likely already around 15 months (give or take) at the time of Ruby’s conception. In short, Taiyang would have had Yang, been abandoned by Raven, gotten together with Summer and impregnated her in little more than a year. A situation like this is not impossible, but it is extremely unlikely.

Getting over a significant other varies per person, but given how Tai talks about Raven; it doesn’t seem like their relationship has run its course quite yet. Summer was most likely helping Tai because he genuinely needed it. Dealing with a newborn and the fact his lover just left him alone, Tai wasn’t exactly in the best state of mind.

In “Two steps forward and two steps back”, Tai finally opens up to Yang about her mother. The way he speaks about Raven feels as though he still fondly remembers her, despite her leaving so abruptly. It feels as if he still loves her, but if that’s the case, why would he shack up with Summer and have another child so quickly? Anyway you slice it, this is a pretty irresponsible thing to do.

UNLESS, Taiyang was never a part of the equation and Summer and Qrow were together the entire time.

Another thing people tend to point is why Qrow would have Ruby believe Taiyang was her father and Yang her sister. Simple, he didn’t want her to feel isolated. Her mom was gone, and he couldn’t there for her. Children can be cruel, and Ruby not having a dad around would definitely be fuel for any and all types of bullying. Making Ruby and Yang “sisters” would have been made things simple; Qrow was already Yang’s Uncle so why not Ruby’s too.

And if this were canon, it would mean Qrow gave up his only child, just so she could have some semblance of a proper family; something he never had or would be able to give her. That is weapon’s grade bittersweet.

A reason Qrow could be hesitant to reveal himself is because of the backlash. Ruby is just a teenager and to drop a bomb on her like that would be a terrible thing to do. Tai wouldn’t be her dad, Yang wouldn’t be her sister and she’d have to come to terms with the fact the two adults she trusted the most have been actively lying to her face her entire life. Qrow is fully aware of the fact of how this revelation could shatter her whole world. So instead of causing her anguish, he lets her live in happy ignorance with her friends.

Point #7: Scenes of Interest

Now there is a handful of moments from the show that highlight the relationship between Ruby and Qrow. I’m going to over a few that are questionable, to me at least.

First the most notable scene is from finale of Volume 3. Ruby is safely at home, in bed, while Taiyang patiently waits for her to awaken. When she does, she asks Tai about what happened. In his brief recollection, he makes a small mention of her silver eyed abilities. Ruby asks him to clarify, but Taiyang immediately dismisses the subject.

Enter Qrow and he then asks Taiyang to “give them a minute”. Taiyang retorts but ultimately leaves to make tea, letting Ruby and Qrow talk. He asks her if she recalls what happened, to which she does through tears. Seemingly out of nowhere, Qrow then asks if she remembered what Ozpin first said to her; something about silver eyes. He goes off about supposed legendary warriors he Grimm singularly feared and how Ruby was special just like her mom.

(The line ‘You’re special, Ruby. and not in the “daddy loves his special angel” kinda way’ is also really interesting. Is it a throwaway line or foreshadowing?)

This seems like a relatively normal scenario until you realize a couple things. Why is Qrow asking Tai to leave the room? And why does Tai give practically no resistance to the notion? Taiyang should have absolute authority, not only as Ruby’s father, but as the owner of the household too. Yet, he relinquishes control of the situation as if it wasn’t his place, as if he knew he shouldn’t be there.

Qrow’s simple yet sincere plea of ‘Tai… please.’ is peculiar because it sounds like he needed to do this, as if it was his responsibility to Ruby. Tai even gives Qrow a small scowl when he exits the room, so there is some discord here, but not enough Tai to act on it. Reinforcing the idea that Tai knows he shouldn’t argue.

Stranger still, Qrow is the one that tells Ruby of her abilities and the first person to liken her to Summer. The fact Qrow, who isn’t an open book by ANY means, was the one to tell her such important albeit limited information about her lineage, while Tai continued to keep as much as he could from her is a dubious sign something is up. As a parent, it should have been Taiyang's duty to comfort Ruby in such trying times, telling her about herself and about Summer.

Another scene that was weird to me was in ‘A Much Needed Talk’. After Qrow finished telling Team RNJR of the gods, maidens, relicts and so on, Ruby asks him if there was anything else he wanted to tell them. A second after she asked, Raven in corvid form perches herself on a nearby branch, prompting Qrow to say “not tonight”. But what could Qrow possibly say that Raven doesn’t already know about? Raven is already privy to Ozpin and Salem’s secret war, about maidens and the relicts. What information could Qrow not want Raven to know about? (A secret child perhaps? Imagine the blackmail between Raven and Qrow if this were the case)

Even over the course of the show, Qrow has been continuously protecting Ruby all her life. Killing Grimm to keep safe and diving in at the last moment when she’s in a real bind. He goes unnecessarily out of his way for her, but doesn’t do the same when his actual niece needs it. Very dedicated for an “Honorary Uncle”.

There are many minor nuances in Volume 6 (specifically Episodes 10-12) as well; many of which having to do with the way Qrow looks when Ruby is danger. When she misses the cliff, the camera switches to Qrow; absolutely horrified when she starts falling.

Another time is when Ruby gets bold and dives into the Mech’s cannon, the camera again pans to Qrow about to have a damn heart attack. The look on Qrow’s face both times conveys the idea of the fact Qrow is terrified of losing Ruby. Perhaps the same way he lost Summer, and perhaps lose the last piece of her he has left. Bottom line is, this doesn’t look like an uncle concerned for his niece, it’s a father worried for the safety of his child.

Lastly, when Qrow catches Ruby after she comes flying out the cannon. The worry on his face tells the same story. The gentle nudge and the panic when she doesn’t immediately wake up is highly reminiscent of when Tai waited for her to wake up in Volume 3; is my baby girl okay?

And a quick shoutout to @anthurak who made a very in-depth post about the Father-Daughter dynamic of Qrow and Ruby in Volume 6. I highly recommend it if haven’t read it already.

Point #8: Qrow’s Alcoholism and Summer’s Death

Though not overtly obvious, it would appear Qrow’s drinking problem and Summer’s passing are intertwined to a degree.

First there is the photo of his team from when they were still together. Why does he tote this ragged photo around with him? Well if you take a closer look, you can make out a ring of condensation around Summer. You typically only get such stains from cups and glasses, so it would seem Qrow used the photo as a coaster to hide the image of Summer.

But why? Well, Summer, being deceased, is the only member of his team he can’t see anymore, but it seems as though he was closer to her than the rest of STRQ.

From what can be gathered, Qrow broke down while drinking over the loss of Summer and was so devastated that he couldn’t even bare to look at a picture of her. Grief like this usually stems from the loss of someone of immeasurable importance to you; a parent, a child, or a significant other.

According to psychology, losing a spouse (child too but not applicable here) is the most stressful thing that can happen to an adult. A loss of this magnitude can have lasting effects for years after their passing. Given Qrow’s previously mentioned breakdown and continuous drinking, it’s very likely that Summer was of said importance to him. I’m not trying to undermine Taiyang’s own grief, giving that he “shut down” when Qrow told him what had happened.

Speaking of which When Qrow was still suffering from Tyrian’s venom, so much so he couldn’t walk, he mumbles something; “Tai… She’s not coming… Tai.”. The line implies that Qrow was there when Summer died and he was charged with letting Tai and the girls know happened.

Another moment that reinforces this is from Episode 10 of Volume 6 (8:12 timestamp). Qrow goes a tirade about he’s causing Jaune’s plan to go awry. Then he says ”I shouldn’t have come, shouldn’t have let any you come. What was I THINKING?”. I don’t know about you but to me that sounds like he’s been down this road before. Like he knows something bad will happen again.

Qrow’s alcoholism is exacerbated when he finds out Salem, the very enemy he’s been fighting against for years, cannot be beaten.

This sends him deeper and deeper into despair and when he socks Ozcar in the jaw, he says “Meeting you was the worse luck of my life”. This is a remarkably harsh thing to say, but it feels as though he isn’t regarding himself in this line. Yes, much of Qrow’s life was spent fighting for Oz and all that time is ultimately wasted, but Qrow has lost many friends and allies in this war as well. Chiefest among them I’d say is Summer. If Qrow was intimate with Summer, then her presumably dying at the hands of Salem’s forces was entirely meaningless. The woman he loved and all the huntsman/huntresses he knew died for a lost cause, which is absolutely tragic.

It’s difficult to discuss Qrow being Ruby’s Dad without mentioning another theory; Was Qrow involved in Summer’s death? I personally think he was, though not intentionally. I’m under the impression Summer sacrificed herself to protect him on her last mission but that’s a topic for another time.

Because of Ruby’s large resemblance to her mom, it has been seen giving Qrow flashbacks of his time with Summer.

When Ruby stands up to Qrow for likely the first time in her life (Volume 6 episode 9), Qrow is not only taken aback by his niece’s strength of will, but is also recognizing how much she is like Summer. The camera angles and shots depict it as if it’s history repeating itself, the daughter walking in the mother’s footsteps. Not letting Qrow spew his bullshit is apparently a Rose thing.

Another time in Volume 6 is when Ruby decides to confront Cordovin alone. Qrow tries to stop her but she shoots a look while saying “i need you to trust me”. Qrow glances back at Ruby, and he ultimately relents, brought down by that stare. He’s definitely heard those words before.

While this may not seem important, it actually lays the foundation for when Qrow finally talks about Summer. After all, besides Yang, he’s the only person who’s actually mentioned her, albeit not by name. (Raven too but that was more of an insult)

Point #9: Thematic Purpose

Qrow being Ruby’s dad I find, adds more than it takes away. It doesn’t do as much for the overlaying plot, it does create many avenues for Character Development.

Take Ruby: she’s been the same bundle of optimism and joy since she first debuted. Then take this and flip it on it’s head. Her faith in her loved ones is now crumbling and is in desperate need of guidance. This revelation could potentially be the most impactful event of her entire life. This scenario would see Ruby peel away from her Paragon attitude and give her much needed development.

It would also explain a curious theme in Volume 4. Every member besides Ruby is seen with their father. Yang is shown training and gaining valuable lesson from Tai. Blake is shown to reconnect with her estranged parents for the first time in years. And sadly, it is shown how far Weiss’s relationship with her family has degraded, particularly with Jacque. Only Ruby is left out of this trend. Or is she? Only one person was beside her the whole time, protecting her from Grimm and Tyrian: Qrow.

This would shed much needed light on Qrow too. It would explain practically he’s done, everything he’s put himself through and why he’s loathed himself the entire way. This creates a unexpected parallel between him and Raven too. If Qrow is Ruby’s father, then it would mean he’s been loving her from the sidelines while never really exposing himself. In contrast, Raven abandoned her family though never denying who she was to Yang.

And speaking of Yang, it gives her and Ruby’s relationship development as well. This revelation would mean they are cousins, not sisters, but they could persevere beyond this fact. Imagine Yang embracing her cousin and simply saying “I don’t care what the truth is. You will ALWAYS be my little sister and nothing will change that.”

And a brief mention to the fact it sheds more light of the dynamic of Team STRQ and by extension Summer herself.

Closing Statement

Not gonna lie, I’m pretty biased on this subject because I adore this theory/head canon and Hummingbird/Flown North is my absolute favourite ship in the fandom without a shadow of a doubt (I prefer the name Hunter’s Dream). I know people who hate this theory/head canon will more than likely shit on this for all it’s worth. But I wanted to finally put my two cents in on this. I will always hope for this to be canon, even though it’s extremely unlikely.

If the writers at one point or another explain/debunk away any of what I've mentioned in the narrative and reinforce the current canon of Taiyang being Ruby’s Dad, I will gladly concede and admit that I was wrong. Until then, I will hold on to the last vestiges of this theory/head canon.

Let a man dream, okay?

#rwby #strq #qrow branwen #summer rose #ruby rose #qrow is ruby's dad #flown north #hummingbird #summer x qrow #qrow x summer #qrow is ruby's father

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wisdomrays · 4 years

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TAFAKKUR: Part 95

The Revival of Prophetic And Herbal Medicine: Part 1

Introduction

The example of Prophet Muhammad, upon him be peace, is explicitly commended in the Qur’an as the best pattern for believers to follow. Therefore, the practice and precepts of the Prophet have been a source of legal judgements and general guidance in the affairs of Muslims since the earliest days of Islam, a source which supplements and is second only to the Qur’an. Since health is so important a part of human well-being, it is not surprising that Muslims over the centuries devoted so much effort to recording and reflecting upon what the Prophet taught about maintaining good health, preventing and curing diseases and ailments.

The most widespread book on ‘Prophetic Medicine’ was that written by Ibn Qayim al-Jawziyiah (691-751AH / 1293-1351). But there are scores of manuscripts on the subject in world libraries and museums. After a preliminary study, I found references to some forty different books (some published, most manuscripts, some lost) with the title ‘Prophetic Medicine’. In his 1985 paper on Islamic heritage, S. Abdullah al-Habashi of Yemen mentioned 23 monographs by different authors on plagues and infectious diseases - I could add a further 16 on the same subject. He went on to write a book on infectious diseases as related to Prophetic Medicine, with a Foreword by the late Sheikh al-Azhar. ‘Abd al-Halim Mahmud.

Recently, the number of publications on Prophetic Medicine as a whole or on different areas of it has been growing rapidly. There are many books and articles, referenced with ahadith (sayings) of the Prophet on the curative properties of honey, black seed (Nigella Sativa), senna (Casiacutifolia), henna (Lawsonia Inermis), aloes (Aloe Vera), garlic and onions, olive oil, etc.; on the positive health benefits of breast feeding, and of the Islamic practices of fasting, prayers, ablution, cleaning the teeth and mouth, etc. Doctors in particular have been very active in elucidating the relevant ahadith and their importance to health promotion and disease prevention. Papers are published almost weekly on Islamic teachings related to health concerns, for example on food and drink (prohibition of excess, of pork, blood, and intoxicant drugs like alcohol), on circumcision, on sexuality and marriage (particularly with regard to the spread of sexually transmitted diseases such as AIDS).

There is growing interest, too, reflected in the volume of publications, in spiritual medicine which treats psychological ailments believed to be produced by evil jinn (evil spirits). Die treatment usually includes reciting particular chapters or verses of the Qur’an, certain supplications attributed to the Prophet, and making incantations.

Current issues in medical ethics from an Islamic perspective have also received a great deal of attention in recent times. There are literally hundreds of articles, books and doctoral dissertations on organ transplantation, brain death, new methods of procreation including test-tube babies and surrogacy, abortion, contraception, cloning and genetic engineering.

Traditional Medicine

As lbn KHaldun observes in his famous Muqaddimah, the pre - Islamic Arabs used a sort of folk medicine based on herbs and plants tested by experience and handed down. At the time of Prophet Muhammad, there were surgeons adept at treating wounds, abscesses and other minor operations, and also some renowned physicians like al-Harith ibn Kalada of Ta’if who had travelled to Jundishapur (near Ahwaz in Iran) to gain more knowledge. The Prophet asked his cousin Sa’d ibn Abi Waqqas to consult al-Harith when Sa’d fell ill after the conquest of Makkah in 8AH(630).

Cupping, venesection and cautery were all common pre-Islamic treatments endorsed by the Prophet with some reservation against cautery. Cupping with blood-letting was definitely encouraged by him and there are tens of ahadith related to this procedure. It is interesting to note that cupping and cautery are still widely practised in Arab countries, especially among villagers and Bedouins.

Recently, Dr. Mansoor Suliman of the medicine faculty of King Abdul Aziz University, Jeddah, published a paper on ‘The myth and reality of treatment by cautery’ in Alternative Medicine (1986, 1(3), pp.237-40). He studied 500 patients treated with cautery and modern techniques for different ailments. He found that cautery was useful in treating diarrhoe where 45% of those cauterized showed marked improvement. Cautery was useless for jaundice, haemolytie blood diseases, respiratory diseases, other infectious diseases and cancers, though it was helpful in stopping bleeding. Diathermy (cautery) is also used in modern medicine to treat epistaxis, cervical erosion, to stop bleeding during operations, and to remove warts and other skin tumours. There are also different types of modern heat therapy e.g. infrared and laser therapy.

Cupping and blood-letting were used widely in the past to treat different ailments e.g. hypertension, polycythemia, and even heart failure. Modern medicine rarely, if ever, resorts to such measures.

The pre-Islamic Arabs believed in supernatural forces such as evil spirits, the evil eye and so on, and sought to counter them with spells, amulets, talismans and other animistic practices. The Qur’an (see 72.6) deplored all such rituals of seeking refuge from evil spirits as a pseudo-worship and therefore a sort of polytheism. The Prophet Muhammad scorned superstitious beliefs. Al-Bukhari records his saying: ‘There is no Adwa (i.e. contagion) [except by the will of Allah]; no Safar [the pagan Arabs believed that Safar, the last month in the lunar calendar, can cause malady. Safar could also refer to huge ‘snakes’ that dwell in the abdomen of some people and cause serious disease]; no Ha’ma [i. e, vengeful ghosts of the dead that hover around the living].’ And Tirmidhi records the Prophet saying: ‘Whoever wears an amulet has relapsed into shirk (polytheism). Whoever goes to a fortuneteller or a divine and asks him about anything, his prayers extending for four nights will not be accepted.’ In another hadith, he said: ‘Magic spells, amulets and the like are shirk.’ Polytheism is considered in Islam the worst of sins, the one that will never be pardoned by God until the person repudiates all forms of polytheism and reverts to pure, original monotheism. The Muslim should have faith in God alone, in whose control lie the causes of health and disease, life and death, in fact of all things, small or large.

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hopefulfestivaltastemaker · 4 years

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August 9, 2020

My weekly review of things I am doing and looking at. A long one this time; topics included disease risk in the food system, my research work patterns, ROI for energy R&D, Apocalypse Never, OpenCog, and housing and transportation in Hillsboro.

Disease Risk and the Food System

Last week I started looking at zoonotic diseases for Urban Cruise Ship, and this week I continued a bit more on disease risk. The current page is here.

Sans images, there is now material on foodborne illnesses, antibiotic resistance as it pertains to antibiotics in livestock, ecological risk from GM crops, and crop disease risk from monoculture. The section is far from done, but it is probably going to go on hold for a while. A few observations:

- Disease risk in general is a major issue, very much on our minds due to COVID-19. That’s a big can of worms. It would take an indeterminate amount of work to do the topic justice and require that I move well beyond the food system. So it’s one that I will have to take one bite at a time.

- There is an image under development that portrays foodborne illness risk in the US by type of food, but there is also a need to look at underlying causes, recognizing that food is a transmission vector and not necessarily the underlying cause.

- Antibiotic resistance looks like a scary topic. There is a report that antibiotic-resistant bacteria could kill 10 million people per year by 2050, which sounds scary, but I need more context on that number. Does this assume a business as usual trajectory where we don’t develop new antibiotics or develop alternative treatments for AMR bacteria, such as plasma medicine, and how much do such developments bend the curve?

- Ultimately I would like to be able to assess externalized monetary cost from antibiotics in livestock in terms of AMR bacteria. I don’t have this yet, but it should be possible.

- I half-assed the genetic risks, and I think justifiably so. I don’t see any evidence, aside from vague appeals to the precautionary principle, to support any significant ecological risks from GM crops. Partly to justify the half-assedness of my effort on the topic, I pointed to a Google Trends search indicating that the public is losing interest in the GMO issue.

A few years ago, I thought I was being bold and edgy by pointing to a lack of evidence of any health or environmental risks from GMOs per se. Now that seems like the safe position, and GMO opponents have (deservedly in my view) generally lost credibility in the way the anti-vax movement has.

- One of my associates is interested in systemic risks from crop monoculture, which prompted me to add that section. It appears that disease risk is the major such systemic risk. The issue of crop and animal disease (as opposed to human diseases for which the food system is a vector) is also a major topic deserving of more careful review and analysis. I would suspect that, from the viewpoint of disease, monoculture is not the most important issue, but it appears that way because monoculture was my entry point into the topic.

The Urban Cruise Ship Work Pattern

I figured now would be a decent time to open the hood and make a few comments about how I am going about the work. Recently the funder made some major additions and changes to the scope of work. This is good for me from a job security standpoint, but it means I need to do some major rethinking about how I go about the project, to insure that things get done at a high level of quality and in reasonable time.

We are ultimately trying to present the best data, analysis, and solutions available on the full range of environmental topics.

Such a grandiose vision requires that I innovate not just in how I think about particular issues, but in how I think about the big picture and how I work. We are setting into a comparison and monetization scheme to present data, a view that was driven by the funder but I have been convinced is best.

One thing I have learned is that knowledge across topics is synergistic. That means that is probably going to be more efficient to aim for a broad and shallow understanding of the environmental landscape, after which we go deeper on the things that require a deeper understanding. This is why I am moving on from the agriculture risk section despite having a superficial treatment of the subject; I intend to come back to it later when it can be better informed by material elsewhere on the site, and I also hope that I have done there will help inform the next sections of work.

This is a work style that suits me well. My mind is always jumping from one area to the next, and I like to draw connections and look at the big picture. This is very much a contrast from most of academic work, which requires a very deep analysis of a narrow topic. I ultimately lost interest in my narrow corner of mathematical research and was not able to make a successful jump to another area; hence (in part) I was not suited for the tenure track.

The obvious drawback is what one sees on the site now. It is obviously incomplete and a bit of a mess, and it will probably remain in such a state for the foreseeable future. It means I have to move fast, which increases the risk of making major mistakes. I fear we are operating at too high a level of abstraction and generality to make actionable policy recommendations.

Although not a high priority, I really wish I could integrate the graphic making process into the larger codebase. The current division of labor is such that I see no way to do so. I dislike having these “Image Under Development” messages and lacking the flexibility to easily modify images as the research proceeds or new data become available.

Return on Investment for R&D

I mentioned before some studies that the US Department of Energy has done on effectiveness of its research and development efforts. Having looked at them more closely, I found something a bit surprising.

I tried my best to harmonize the numbers reported to make a fair comparison. It’s not perfect, but the following seem to be the central estimates of the ROI for the program investment areas studied:

Combustion engines: 53

Building technologies: 42

Wind: 5.07

Geothermal: 4.865

Hybrid and electric vehicles: 3.63

Solar PV: 1.83

They all look like good investments, though building technologies (HVAC, water heating, appliances) and combustion engines clearly stand out as the best. I would have expected the opposite. Since the building and combustion areas are more incremental, there should be more incentive for the private sector to do the R&D and therefore a “crowding out” effect that would blunt the effectiveness of the public investment.

Part of this could be an artifact of the study methodology. Since the time horizon for the lower return technologies is longer, they simply haven’t captured the full benefit. The solar PV study was done in 2010, and I would expect a higher return to be found if it was redone today. There could also be an attribution problem, in that with developing more novel technologies, it is harder to attribute gains to a particular R&D investment, therefore depressing the observed ROI.

I want to propose some solutions on R&D efforts for synfuels and industry, so these studies might provide guidance as to what kind of investments can be expected to work best. Maybe this is a sign that I should be thinking more about short term gains.

Apocalypse Never

Apocalypse Never is a new book by Michael Shellenberger castigating the harmful effects of what he sees as environmental alarmism. I haven’t read it, but I have read enough of Shellenberger’s work and discussion around it to make some relevant observations.

Not too surprisingly, the reaction from the environmental community seems to be mostly negative. This article from Snopes captures fairly well what academic climate/environmental researchers think. Despite being from Snopes, the character of the article isn’t a “debunking” so much as a critical analysis. There is much disagreement about semantics (e.g. are we really in the Sixth Mass Extinction?) rather than factual disputes. Though I have a few of those too.

Since I hope one day to have major public exposure for Urban Cruise Ship, the discussion is a helpful case study in how to present material and what kind of reception I should expect.

Since I am critical of several aspects of environmentalism--particularly degrowth and related elements--I expect some negative reaction. To blunt the effect of criticism, I think I need do to a better job of operating on the following principles:

- Focus on principles and avoid ad hominem attacks, including against abstractions such as fields and movements.

- Make every effort to insure facts presented are accurate.

- Find the right level of nuance. Too little nuance can be inaccurate. Too much nuance can water down a message to the point of meaninglessness.

Though most of the discussion I saw was pretty even-handed, there is some gatekeeping that goes on in the climate community. The bogeyman of the “climate denier” looms large and triggers a kind of circle-the-wagons mentality when the field is criticized, whether justly or unjustly. Lacking formal credentials or institutional backing, I am going to be vulnerable to gatekeeping and probably can’t do anything about it.

OpenCog

Having listened to Ben Goertzel on Lex Fridman’s podcast a while back, I got around this week to looking over OpenCog, which is Goertzel’s open source project to create artificial general intelligence.

There is a ton of material here that will take a long time to work through, especially considering that I am doing it only as a side project. Just reviewing the set of AI principles being brought to bear in the project, though, buoyed my spirits and excited me about the field in a way I haven’t felt in a long time. I am already thinking about some work I can do. Contributing to OpenCog is beyond my capabilities at present, but I have some related design ideas that have been sitting on the shelf for a long time and are time to give another look at.

I have no idea if this effort toward AGI will work. But I would guess that it is more likely to work than an approach rooted exclusively in deep learning, such as the GPT approach, which suffers from intractable diseconomies of scale. In particular, I think that a semantic encoding of knowledge is a necessary component of any AGI stack. There are people with far more expertise who disagree.

Housing and Transportation in Hillsboro

I’ve dialed back my political activities a bit lately, but there were some items at the Hillsboro (Oregon) City Council this week worth commenting on.

City staff presented on efforts to implement HB 2001, a piece of state legislation that mandates most cities allow for middle housing (du-, tri-, quad-plexes, cottage housing, small apartments) in residential areas. Without naming names, my read on the council and mayor is that among the seven, two are generally pro-housing, two are generally anti-housing, one is squishy, and two I don’t have a good read on. I have written to them to indicate my desire that we take advantage of the opportunity provided by HB 2001 for an expansive approach to opening up housing opportunities in Hillsboro.

We also had a presentation on the Get Moving package, which is the transportation package that Metro has now referred to the ballot in November. City staff seemed to be negative. The presenter asserted that Hillsboro gets a disproportionately low ROI (about 0.56) for the project and that Metro was unduly influenced by Portland-based anti-vehicle activists to reject road expansion capacity that Hillsboro needs. One council member expressed her concern (which I agree with) that the financial burden falls entirely on large employers, which will be particularly harmful in Hillsboro and I think is bad tax policy in general. On the positive side, the package includes some badly needed safety upgrades to TV Highway, which is the most dangerous highway in the state per-mile for both pedestrians and motorists. There is also money for a study of a downtown Portland MAX tunnel, which I think will be very important for the region. Ultimately, despite the extensive public engagement theatre, it is a pre-COVID package, based on economic and transportation demand assumptions that may no longer be reasonable.

I haven’t yet decided how I will vote on the package, but I am leaning toward a No right now.

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sunsetsover · 5 years

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I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on Ben having BPD

ok WHEW you just opened a fucking can of worms this about to be the longest post i’ve ever made i hope you have your seatbelt on

let me just preface this by saying nearly everything i talk abt in this post will be based off of my personal experiences w bpd. some people experience it differently, some people might not agree w some of the things i say, but i can only talk abt my own pov. therefore, this just my own personal opinions on ben having bpd. so yh lmao

and disclaimer!! i’m not a doctor!! don’t take anything i say in this post as diagnostic criteria! i’m not an expert or mental health professional!! when it comes to your own mental health or the mental health of ppl in your life, do not consider me a source to reference like ‘oh well lauren sunsetsover said xyz’ like pls just don’t do that. do your own research. and most importantly consult a doctor!!!!!! i am not one!!!!!!!!!

also there are very few sources in this post bc most of this is just shit i’ve absorbed over the years from doctors and doing my own research lmao

now that’s out of the way let’s go! (this became part character study, part informational masterpost on bpd. also it got really fuckin long, hence the read more, so be warned lmao)

warning for potentially triggering content (abuse/mentions of suicide and self harm - nothin too bad but i do touch on ben’s behaviour and history, and this is a p serious mental health issue we’re talking abt here so! take care of yourselves!!)

ok so! some things to keep in mind before we even get to ben:

i believe (at least in the uk) borderline personality disorder is considered to be an outdated name, and one that essentially isn’t appropriate or fit for purpose anymore, so in my experience, a lot of the time now it’s referred to as eupd (emotionally unstable personality disorder) in medical settings. which is way more apt name imo, and tells you more abt what bpd actually is (but i still call it bpd bc it’s easier and ppl know what that is lmao). so like. emotionally unstable personality disorder. i bet that conjures up a way more vivid idea in ur head than borderline personality disorder does.

no one 100% knows what causes bpd, though it’s thought to be a combination of genetic and environmental factors, like most things. but the general consensus is that bpd develops when something (usually traumatic, but not always in an extreme sense. ppl w bpd have often been victims of some type of abuse in their childhood, but that’s not necessarily always the case) happens in your childhood that impacts the development of your personality. kind of a bizarre metaphor but hopefully it will help u understand: u know how in finding nemo, the egg nemo was in got damaged by the shark? and even tho the damage looked minor, it actually meant that one of his fins was permanently damaged - it was malformed, it didn’t grow right, he couldn’t use it properly? well imagine the fin = the personality; that’s what happens to a person w bpd’s personality. smth happens to us in our childhood that permanently damages our personality, and so it doesn’t grow and develop properly as the rest of us does, making it less functional than an average person’s. u can imagine how that can lead to all sorts of problem (we’ll get to them later)

but bc it’s a mental disorder that affects the personality, you can’t be diagnosed w bpd until you’re 18, when your personality is basically developed fully (i believe it can be diagnosed slightly younger, but those are rare and extreme cases). however, symptoms can start to present themselves earlier, as ur personality begins to develop and mature. (mine started presenting in my early teens)

bpd doesn’t really go away, and treatment with medication generally isn’t effective for long periods of time. however symptoms can be treated with continued therapy, and symptoms sometimes can start to ease as you get older!!

bpd also gets misdiagnosed a lot bc a lot of the symptoms are similar to that of other mental health problems. the biggest one it gets misdiagnosed as seems to be bipolar disorder, which i get tbh. i’ve always considered bpd very similar to bipolar, just like… quicker cycles. there are even memes about it. also bpd has a tendency to coexist w other mental health issues, which makes it harder to recognise and diagnose.

so now lets look at this from a diagnostic perspective

in order to be diagnosed w bpd you basically have to deemed, by a medical professional, to be meet certain criteria, and to have been meeting these certain criteria for a significant amount of time. there are some variations to this criteria, and proposed subtypes and basically different flavours of borderlines but i’m not even gonna go there. i’m just gonna talk abt what i’m most familiar w and how i think that applies to ben.

i’m copying and pasting the diagnostic criteria part from here bc as far as i’m aware this is the criteria doctors use for diagnosis. there are 9 different ‘indicators’/’criteria’, and you have to display or meet at least 5 of them in order to be considered for a bpd diagnosis:

1. Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment

this is one of, if not the biggest part of bpd. that trauma i mentioned earlier? often stems from or is related to abandonment, or perceived abandonment, in childhood, be it physical or emotional. for example, a child that’s being abused by one parent might feel abandoned by the other parent if they don’t do anything about it, even if the second parent has no idea the abuse is going on. sound familiar? a similar thing happened to ben, with stella. phil not doing anything about the abuse ben was facing at the hands of stella - even though he didn’t know it was happening, even though phil did do something once he found out - was an abandonment to ben. and that’s just the tip of the abandonment iceberg for ben - kathy faking her death and leaving him was an abandonment (even when he thought she was actually dead), phil’s own abuse was an abandonment, as was his reaction when ben came out, and so on. and abandonment like that skews your thinking so you believe that everyone is going to abandon you, sooner or later, that they must be abandoning you for a reason, you must be a terrible person, you must be unworthy of people’s effort/time/love etc etc.

even when paul died, that was an abandonment to ben! like logically we know - and ben probably knows too - that paul didn’t want to die, he didn’t want to leave ben, he didn’t deliberately leave ben. but that doesn’t matter. mental illness is illogical, bpd is illogical, esp when it comes to abandonment. e.g. my therapist had to cancel a few of our appointments once bc she was ill, and it felt like an abandonment. like it was personal somehow, like she wasn’t coming into work bc of me, bc i was too much work, too hard to handle. ofc that wasn’t true, but that’s how it felt. it’s illogical. so ofc my solution was to just not go to my appointments even when she came back, bc like what other response is there lmao. it’s just that everything a person does feels personal, like it’s because of/about you, even when it isn’t. even when it has nothing to do w you. that’s probably why ben can come across at selfish at times, like he’s making everything about him. because it is all about him, in his mind. everything is because of him, is his doing, his fault etc. his way of thinking is skewed into thinking like that, bc shit keeps happening to him and ppl keep leaving him, so it must be his fault.

and!! ‘frantic efforts’ isn’t necessarily what u think it is!! it can be desperate begging ‘i’ll do anything to keep you in my life’ type actions, but it just as equally can be lashing out and abandoning someone in order to prevent them from abandoning u first - a ‘get them before they get me’ mentality (the whole scene where phil was in the hospital comes to mind - the ‘why doesn’t he love me back?’ was the more desperate part of him, tho it wasn’t necessarily an ‘effort’ per se, but then him trying to kill his dad basically in order to have the abandonment be at least on his own terms? that’s lashing out, and def qualifies as a ‘frantic effort’ lmao). and how often do we see that in ben? lashing out at jay in the hospital because he knew he was mad at him, and he’d rather hurt jay physically before he could hurt him emotionally? ben trying to support callum and showing him kindness, only to turn around and threaten to out him when he finds out callum asked stuart to sort him out? everything that happened w his dad, trying to fuck him over before his dad can get there first, trying to get rid of keanu so he can’t be abandoned in favour of him (although that didn’t really work, but it rarely does work the way u want it to lmao). and the biggest one to me, though probably one that people have already forgotten, is him breaking up w that guy he was seeing in newcastle even tho they were into each other bc he ‘had to, otherwise [he] would have ruined his life’. even tho we don’t really get details, that says it all to me. it’s v much a pattern that’s present in ben.

2. A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by extremes between idealization and devaluation (also known as “splitting”)

i feel like this one doesn’t need much explaining lmao

here is a definition of splitting from here (which is a very good article on splitting imo if u wanna read more abt it): ‘Splitting is a term used in psychiatry to describe the inability to hold opposing thoughts, feelings, or beliefs. Some might say that a person who splits sees the world in terms of black or white, all or nothing. It’s a distorted way of thinking in which the positive or negative attributes of a person or event are neither weighed nor cohesive.’

a little explanation of it from me: ppl w bpd can sometimes have very simplistic, all or nothing views on things. and splitting is basically when ur opinion on something or someone changes very quickly (sometimes instantly), often to an extreme (e.g. going from loving and idolizing someone, to absolutely fucking hating them, or from having a neutral opinion on something to suddenly becoming extremely angry abt it) sometimes without even having an identifiable trigger. it links into black and white thinking, which u may have heard of before - u either love someone and they can do no wrong, or u hate them and they disgust you. either something is amazing or it’s terrible. there is no grey area, no in between. it goes back into the whole ‘not being able to regulate ur emotions properly’ thing lmao there’s rarely nuances to our emotions or feelings, we’re all or nothing a lot of the time. so splitting is when ur opinion rapidly changes to one of these extremes. sometimes u can even go back and forth, splitting over and over on the same person/thing which is super fun.

ben splits on his dad all the time. all the fucking time. he doesn’t care about phil at all and wants to ruin him, then he wants phil’s approval and to be welcomed back into the family fold and the business. then ben hates him and wants him dead, then 5 minutes later he wants his love, wants to be a good son again. that’s splitting. u can also see it w jay, too, but no where near as extreme as w his dad. and i’ve seen it a couple of times w callum too, but again, it’s way more subtle. u probably wouldn’t notice it if u weren’t looking for it, whereas w phil it’s obvious.

but like i don’t need to explain ‘unstable and intense interpersonal relationships’, do i? just look at the relationships w phil, w jay, w lola, w callum, even w paul - they were unstable back when they first got together, and were arguably kind of intense too. (he settled a bit w paul, but his death/perceived abandonment fucked him up a lot beyond the expected ways). he’s always arguing w the ppl he loves. he tried to get poor billy killed, and yet since then he’s had no problem w him!! none of his relationships - apart from maybe his mum and ian (i don’t include lexi bc she’s a child) - are stable. and i would definitely describe his relationships as intense lmao

3. Identity disturbance: Markedly or persistently unstable self-image or sense of self

u can see this most - as most things - in his relationship w his dad. he fluctuates between seeming to know his worth (and demanding other people know it too), knowing he deserves his dad’s love and approval (why else would he be so mad abt the fact hes not getting it, if not bc he knows he’s worthy of it? if he didn’t think so, he wouldn’t be so angry abt not getting it - he’d be accepting/understanding, wouldn’t he?) and being desperate to do anything to get his dad’s love/approval, even things that are below him, turning into a child, begging to know why his dad doesn’t love him, why he’s never been enough. that scene where phil had found out abt ben trying to frame keanu and leaving him for dead is the epitome of this. u can see ben fluctuate between a hurt, traumatized little boy, begging his dad for some answers, some explanation as to why he’s not enough, begging him not to start drinking again, and a man who is angry, angry at his dad, angry at himself for crumbling like this, bc he should be stronger than this. u see him change multiple times in that one single scene. go watch it again. you’ll see it too.

some more examples: his absolute certainty that he is better and more qualified than the likes of shirley and keanu for working with his dad, and then being like ‘my dad was right, i’m good for no one’ - they don’t line up. does he have self esteem and know his worth or not? also his entire relationship w callum is an example of this - all those changes in his attitude towards cal and their situation? he often treats callum like they’re equals who understand each other, yet sometimes it seems like he thinks he’s superior to callum (e.g. the scene outside the cafe), and others he behaves (keyword) as though he thinks he’s not good enough for callum (why else would he just take all that shit from whitney and not say anything in retaliation? why, if not because he deems it more important that callum has an easier time of it than he does; that he regards cal’s comfort more important than his own? and why would he do that, if he held himself in such high regards? i mean he certainly acts like it sometimes, so why not then?)

also like……. who is ben? is he the bastard who cares about no one but himself, who’s always causing trouble not only for himself but for the people he cares about? is he the guy who just completely folds when people he knows hurtle abuse at him, accepting it lying down, who thinks he’s no good for anyone? the guy who goes out all night and drinks himself silly and purposefully gets himself into fights? the guy who shows callum so much empathy even tho it brings him nothing but pain, who loves jay unconditionally, who tried so hard to help bobby when he came back from prison? which one is he? which one does he want to be? does he even know?

(and you could argue that people are just multi-dimensional, but there’s just such a vast gap between these different facets of ben’s character and he can flip through them so fast it’s jarring, which is why i think it’s more like he straight up doesn’t have a consistent sense of self. which is a big part of bpd)

4. Impulsive behavior in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating)

again, does this need explaining?

doing illegal shit, excessively drinking, becoming unnecessarily violent, fucking up his relationships, just generally doing reckless things regardless of the consequences - this has always been a part of ben’s character.

(his constant hook ups could be another one, but the jury’s still out on that one. if anything it’s less the sex that worries me and more the flippant attitude he has when meeting up w ppl - they could be anyone and do all sorts, at the end of the day)

it became most obvious recently around the anniversary of paul’s death - drinking himself sick, gambling all his money away, deliberately starting fights. but even before that and since then it’s been there.

it’s basically just a way to self sabotage.

i feel like this one isn’t a consistent part of ben’s behaviour like the others are, but it is undeniably there, so.

5. Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-harming behavior

although ben (to my knowledge) hasn’t displayed any suicidal behaviour, he has at times spoken in ways that could kind of sway that way. (i’m no good for anyone, i’m not worth it, why do you care etc)

also self harming!!! just because he doesn’t hurt himself in a direct way doesn’t mean he doesn’t deliberately put himself in situations where he’ll get hurt, and that is self harm!! letting stuart beat him at pride was self harm!! picking that fight w those homophobes at e20 was self harm!!! drinking to excess is a form of self harm!!! putting himself in harm’s way, even if he doesn’t get hurt, is self harm!!!! just bc he might not be self harming in the traditional sense doesn’t mean he’s not hurting himself!!! this one has been on my mind for so long!!!! oh my god!!!!! he absolutely has a pattern of self harming/self destructive behaviours, and just a general disregard for his own safety and well being!!!! the fact that it doesn’t worry more ppl in his life is so upsetting to me!!!!!!

6. Emotional instability in reaction to day-to-day events (e.g., intense episodic sadness, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days)

aka the biggest part of bpd: pt 2

i feel like this definition doesn’t really do justice to this aspect of bpd. this is basically you literally having no control of your emotions. ‘day-to-day events’ have fuck all to do with it half the time. u could be sitting there minding ur business and all of a sudden you wanna smash up the entire room, for seemingly no reason. one time i was crying - like uncontrollably sobbing, a complete mess - and had been for maybe half an hour? and then all of a sudden, literally mid sob, it stopped. like it just stopped. i was done, i wasn’t sad anymore. i went from inconsolably crying to perfectly fine in a split second. can you even imagine that? it’s fucking crazy. that’s what having bpd is like. it’s like mood swings x1000 (that’s why i describe it like bipolar on a smaller scale - their mood swings last days/weeks/months, ours last minutes/hours, sometimes days but not often). you can be fine, then all of a sudden you’re not. or you can be not fine, and then all of a sudden you are. you can be ecstatic, then all of a sudden all the joy gets sucked out of ur body n u wanna die. then 5 mins later ur fine again. u can cycle thru every single human emotion in the space of a few hours with no warning whatsoever. u can go from feeling so many emotions u don’t know which one to focus on to feeling none at all. it’s exhausting. so yes ‘day-to-day events’ (this can be as minor as the way someone speaks to you, or not enjoying ur food as much as u thought u would, and it can make u terrifyingly sad or spark uncontrollable rage in u) can trigger it, but it’s like… at least that’s kind of justifiable. most of the time u just cannot regulate, control or predict ur emotions whatsoever. and often the emotions u do feel are not appropriate for the situation at hand lmao

on top of that, ppl w bpd have massive problems processing their emotions. while most ppl have the capacity to identify what they’re feeling and why, ppl w bpd often can’t. and bc they can’t identify it properly, they don’t know how to process it. that’s why emotions and feelings are so often black and white - we might develop the ability to recognise Big Emotions, like love and hate, happiness and sadness etc, but we can’t figure out the smaller, nuanced emotions. it becomes or, not and.

this is also why our emotions feel so big and all encompassing!! we can’t ignore our emotions!! they are our focus in a lot of ways. when ur sad, it feels like the world is ending, every single time. when ur happy, ur euphoric and nothing else matters, and so on. every emotion has the volume turned up to 100. that’s why our emotions sometimes come out in extreme or unhealthy ways - our emotions often feel so big we have such a hard time handling them. so we go to drastic lengths, whatever they may be, to cope.

(also bc most ppl w bpd are victims of abuse, we’re often hyperaware of other people’s moods, which can impact ours. someone can be annoyed for some innocuous, innocent reason, and yet bc we can sense it, we become scared or defensive and may lash out.)

and ben… little old ben, have u ever seen him have a rational reaction to anything in his life? how often have we seen him have an appropriate response to smth? my dad is shit, so i have to destroy him. failing that, i have to kill him. oh, my brother isn’t gonna let kill him? time to punch him in the face. my daughter ate all my cereal? it’s Overreaction Time. (this one in particular is Very Me like yes lexi is a child and he was unfair but my 7 year old cousin once drank all my j2os and i almost had a breakdown so i Get It) i’m feeling like shit? time to antagonise these homophobes until they beat me in the middle of the street. i sleep with this man once? time to get overly involved. he shows me a little bit of love and kindness? time to develop feelings for him despite him insisting he’s straight, the fact that he’s with a woman and i have been harassed and beaten by his homophobic family multiple times. but it isn’t going the way i wanted it to? time to impulsively hit him for not knowing what he wants, then immediately regret it.

and like. he went from crying his eyes out in his dad’s kitchen to threatening kat slater within the span of what, 10 minutes? he went from trying to kill his dad, to falling tf apart w jay, to trying to manipulate his dad - who had just woken up from a coma - for his own gain again, in the span of maybe an hour. if that doesn’t say rapid cycling, inconsistent emotions idk what does.

like idk enough about the old bens to say if this is a consistent characteristic of his or not (although based on the fact he killed a woman bc he was angry w his dad, i’d say it’s fairly safe to assume lmao) but ever since he came back his reactions and emotions have been pretty much never once been rational, stable or consistent.

(and like i wanna say i am saying all of this from the perspective of the bad days. so if you’re thinking ‘well, ben isn’t like that all the time’ ur right. neither am i. some days i’m fine, some days it’s not that bad, sometimes i can cope. but i still have bpd, even on those days. and imo, so does ben.)

7. Chronic feelings of emptiness

this is one i don’t really see in ben. we maybe see moments of emptiness, but certainly not enough to call it ‘chronic’.

also a lot of the moments we do see emptiness in ben, i feel like it’s forced emptiness, more for his own benefit or for the benefit of others rather than actual genuine emptiness. it’s not that he’s not feeling anything, it’s that what he is feeling he’s not showing. that’s very different from actually feeling empty.

8. Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights)

this! is! such! a! massive! part! of! having! bpd! and it’s a part that no one ever fucking talks about either!!!

and again, does this one need explaining?

ben is anger. he’s a ball of it, and he has been for a very, very long time. he’s angry at his dad, at the world, at himself. for all sorts of reasons, both complex and simple. if i sat here and tried to get into all of it this post would be twice as long as it already is. and i don’t think i really need to, anyway. it’s not as if any of us need to dig very deep to see it, is it?

‘frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights’ like i really don’t need to elaborate do i? bc what does ben do when he’s angry? his temper flairs up, he gets physical, lashes out, makes threats.

and he’s so often angry in response to emotional pain, which is the saddest (and for me, most relatable) part. just look at paul’s anniversary, how angry he was just in general, to everyone - even his mum, who is like the only exception to his anger since he’s been back - when he was just hurting and sad. how angry he got when he found out keanu had replaced him in phil’s will, when really he was just hurt. he gets angry and violent so people don’t see him as weak bc he’s hurting. he has been conditioned to get angry instead of getting sad. it’s not healthy at all.

there is so much more but i feel like it’s unnecessary for me to get into it. bc u know. ben’s not exactly subtle in his anger is he lmao

9. Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms

this is the only other one that i don’t see in ben at all, and it’s one that i don’t really experience myself either so i don’t even have any insight to offer lmao

so!! more or less 7/9!! that’s a passing grade for diagnosis!!! welcome to the club, mr mitchell!!!!

all of this, of course, has been purely from a medical, diagnostic standpoint (w some of my personal experiences sprinkled in lmao). there’s so much more to say from like a ‘living w bpd day to day’ standpoint but like, this post is already way too fuckin long so i’m just gonna hit on a few that i feel are important in regards to ben, and ones i have’t spoken abt yet

most ppl w bpd have a ‘fp’ or ‘favourite person’ (tho it can be multiple people), which sounds nice but it’s kind of a really complicated and difficult thing tbqh. here’s the best definition i could find: ‘When someone with BPD uses the term “favorite person” to describe someone else, they are typically insinuating that this is a person they cannot survive without. For BPD sufferers, the favorite person is the person who is a source of emotional support and dependence. This individual has the ability to truly impact the BPD sufferer’s day in either a positive or negative manner. The favorite person to someone with BPD holds a critical role in their lives by holding the power to ‘make or break’ the successful navigation of daily tasks and struggles.’ it’s a difficult thing to explain/understand (so please feel free to google ‘favourite person bpd’ to get a better understanding), and is not always as dramatic as it sounds, but it’s like… even if they aren’t a source of ‘emotion support’, ur mental wellbeing can hang on this person’s every move. (which is not healthy, i know, but it’s just a thing that happens w bpd!) and phil is absolutely ben’s fp. ben hates phil, and yet is still so desperate to be in his good graces, in his life no matter what that costs him… and ben’s self esteem, his actions, his moods are so dependant on phil. it just?? makes so much sense to me. i realize it may not make much sense to someone who doesn’t have any understanding of what a fp is, but like if u do, i’m sure u see what i see.

i think maybe jay was another fp of ben for a while in the past. i don’t think he is as much since ben has come back, but in the past?? maybe. like less in the ‘my happiness is dependant on u’ way and more in like a ‘i’m very very attached to u and need u in my life and would maybe go crazy if anything or anyone got in the way of that’ way.

and i think callum might be sneaking into territory now too tbqh. it would explain why callum’s actions and words have such an impact on ben’s moods despite not much really happening between them. and like i wanna say: someone becoming ur fp is not a choice. it just happens. it’s not like ben is going ‘oh im going to get overly attached to u just for a laugh’, no. this would be completely out of his control. and when it happens, it fucking SUCKS. so if that is what’s happening, it’s going to have a massive impact on ben - and it seems like it already is.

and like taking the whole fp thing out of it (bc i know it’s complicated and hard to grasp) bpd would explain why ben seems to be so attached to callum even tho very little has actually happened between them!!! like bpd will have u falling in love w someone who just shows you basic human kindness and decency, and i mean that very literally!!! bc like i said when you have bpd, you struggle to navigate and handle basic emotions, so all the nuances of romance and love? jesus christ. it goes back into black and white thinking - i either love this person or i hate this person, there is no in between. so callum, showing ben kindness? showing him support with what’s going on w louise and what happened w phil? not hating him and thinking he’s despicable and evil and all those things people say about him? and ben, having bpd? he probably wouldn’t be able to comprehend that maybe cal’s just being friendly, esp not after they slept together. so ofc he would latch tf on to that. i would latch tf on to that. his behaviour towards callum just seems very on brand for having bpd to me, genuinely.

and !! all those things whitney said the other night !! people complained about him not arguing back, but like… she’s almost saying what ben wants to hear, when it comes to callum. bc i touched on it before but like the thing is when, you have bpd ur thought process is like ‘i care about this person, they are good, i don’t deserve them, i am bad, i am going to ruin them, i’m probably manipulating them into spending time with me and caring about me, but i can’t let them go, i need them, i bet they don’t even like me, i don’t deserve them, i don’t want them to get hurt, i don’t want to hurt them, i am going to hurt them, in the end.’ (and eventually it spirals into ‘actually they’re probably going to hurt me first bc everyone always does so let me completely destroy this relationship so it’s unrecoverable and hurt them now so they can’t hurt me later’ but that’s another story) and whitney more or less confirms that for him!!! in essence, what she says to him is ‘you’re bad, he didn’t want anything to do with you but you manipulated him into it. you don’t deserve him, you’ve hurt him, you’ve hurt me, how could you do this?’ so like… ofc he’s not gonna argue w her. he’s already had a shit day, all of the fight is gone from him, and he agrees w her!! i’m sure he was thinking that he deserved what whit was throwing at him - not necessarily for what he’d done to her, but because he is Bad and callum is Good and he needs to stay away from him, otherwise he’ll ruin him. bc that’s just what bpd brain tells u, even when u’ve got no basis to believe it. (unless ur splitting or experiencing a big emotional high, but again, that’s a different story)

and that kind of makes sense as to why he’d go to the wedding. going back to the anger instead of sadness thing - he’s hurting, so he’s going to get angry and vengeful. he has been hurt, so now he is going to hurt in return. esp considering both callum and whitney have seen him in such a vulnerable state. it’s probably a pride thing, too.

also just to expand a little more on the ‘unstable sense of self’ thing - ppl w bpd (and also victims of abuse, but sometimes that particular venn diagram is a circle) tend to change the personality based on who they’re with. which is what most people do, yes, but i mean the Extreme version. it’s a trauma response thing - u’ll reflect parts of a person’s personality back at them, or even take bits from personalities of ppl u know they like in the hopes that they’ll like u more like that, as opposed to ur real personality (if u even know what that is). and sometimes those parts stick (esp when you idolize the person u stole them from/they’re your fp), and it’s like u all of a sudden realize ur entire personality is built of parts of other ppls personalities that you’ve stolen. so it makes sense to me that ben seems to have so many differing personalities/sides to his personality, bc he’s learned which parts to show to who, and in what situations - in response to his abuse as a kid, if nothing else.

(and before anyone can even go there: that is not an act of manipulation. it’s a trauma response. it’s something that happens without us consciously having any say in it, as a way of self-preservation. it’s like if i make myself likeable and appealing to u, you’re less likely to hurt me, physically or emotionally. and yes ben has a habit of manipulation, but this is not a part of it. none of ben’s manipulation is directly bc of his hypothetical bpd, it’s bc that’s just who he is. i don’t ever want to see the two equated, or see anyone say any shit like ‘ben must have bpd bc he’s manipulative’, ever.)

just for the hell of it, here are some spicy bpd memes, bc that’s how we communicate on the internet. (here are two in particular seem quite relevant to ben rn lmao + bonus one for phil!!)

so! there we are!!! i’m sure there’s some important stuff i overlooked and that this is not what u expected when u sent me this question, but there are so many misconceptions and stigmas out there surrounding bpd that i wouldn’t have felt right half assing it. and i hope, if nothing else, u learned something abt bpd that u didn’t know before :-)

if u read this far ur a trooper lmao but if anyone has any questions, be they abt ben having bpd or bpd in general please feel free to ask!! i’ll do my best to answer them to the best of my ability 💖💖

#ben mitchell #ballum #eastenders #petty as hell but it was really bugging me that this wasnt showing up in tags so i'm posting it again lmao #sorry if u already liked/replied to it :-(#bpd #anon #question

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demented-dukey · 5 years

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In-depth Meta of “Dealing with Intrusive Thoughts” as it pertains to Incest and the presumed sibling relationship between Remus and Roman

Thanks to @squipfromjapan for picking out these moments from the episode. They also notated other moments that could be interperated as “sibling banter”, but for this post I’m going to focus on the dialogue that specifically references brotherhood.

I’m making this post so I have something to link to whenever someone tells me that “They called each other brothers several times!” or “The episode said they were twins!”, because I keep seeing the same assumptions made over and over again being represented as cold hard facts, when there is so much more nuance and room for debate.

So. Let’s look at the episode “Dealing with Intrusive Thoughts”, shall we? Buckle your seatbelts, kiddos, ‘cause this is gonna be a wild ride.

💚

Timestamp: 5:46 Remus: “Have you ever imagined killing your brother?”

Remus whispers this line in Thomas’s head. He is referencing Thomas’s dream the previous night, where Thomas literally imagined murdering his brother and dragging the dead body into his bathroom. The dream sequence won’t be revealed until later in the episode, but upon rewatch this is a clear reference to ~specifically~ That Dream. This is also a more subtle reference to the “Moving On” two-ep arc, when Thomas showed a drawing his younger self had made of him electrocuting his brother. We know from the livestreams that Thomas and Joan have been planning Remus since the “Growing Up” episode, and have been dropping hints and easter eggs about Remus’s existence in various episodes. That drawing indicates that these “intrusive thoughts” have been with Character!Thomas for a long time, and this is not the first time this particular thought has crossed his mind.

A few moments later, Remus appears and knocks out Roman. Patton screams, “You killed him!”, but it’s a lot less likely that Remus was actually intending to ~murder~ Roman - Roman is obviously not “dead” because he continues to mutter in his sleep, and Remus does not continue to attack Roman to finish the job. It’s made clear later in the episode when Remus attacks Logan that his actions are impermanent, and do not do lasting harm to the other sides.

Because Remus attacked Roman directly after uttering this line, many people have taken that to mean the “brother” in question is Roman, thus it implies that Remus was talking about killing Roman. But correlation does not equal causation - just because the action happened so soon after the line, doesn’t mean that the line is referring to that action. The action echoing the line makes for a beautiful cinematic parallel, but it’s all a matter of interpretation. People can make that association, but it is their headcanon, NOT actual canon proof.

For example: Immediately before Remus’s appearance, the other sides are taking about whether ghosts are evil, or if they just appear to scare people. At the same time, Remus is appearing (much like a ghost) behind Roman. The conversation directly parallels this for a reason - the viewer is supposed to make that association and wonder “Is Remus evil? Or does he just scare people because you never know when he’s going to show up?” Being a mental projection of Thomas’s mind, Remus is very ghost-like, and he even says the trademark ghost sound, “Boo!”, but in this scene there is no more “proof” that Remus is a literal “ghost” of a dead person than there is “proof” that Remus is trying to kill his literal “brother”.

Conclusion: “Have you ever imagined killing your brother?” is referring to Thomas’s bad dream, not the relationship between Remus and Roman.

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Timestamp: 7:53 Roman: “Bro, I’m gonna whip your butt!”

Roman calls Remus ‘bro’. Yes, this can imply a sibling relationship, but “bro” is often used for non-sibling relationships as well. Roman says this line as a threat, much like the common phrase, “Come at me, bro!” or the less threatening but equally common phrase “Cool story, bro.” - which can be used to address anyone of any gender without indicating a sibling relationship. Much like “Dude”, “Bro” carries a inherently “male” association, but it is not used exclusively to address “men” - it can also be used interchangeably to refer to a woman or nonbinary person.

For example: In the beginning of this episode, Thomas is doing an advertisement for Hello Fresh. He holds up a dish of food and says to the viewer, “You jealous of this, bro?” Thomas is using the term “bro” as a nickname, and addressing his entire audience irregardless of gender. Thomas is NOT implying a sibling relationship with the audience.

Conclusion: “Bro” is a commonly used generic greeting, not proof of a sibling relationship.

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Timestamp: 14:30 Logan: “At a young age you filed away your products of your imagination as either welcome or forbidden. This led to the development of two separate sides of your creativity.” Thomas: “So my creativity split in two?” Logan: "Into two parts during your development, yes. Like an ovum. The Duke is like Roman’s twin.”

For this scene, let's go over some basic English Grammar rules. What Logan is saying is an example of a simile, because he uses the word "like". Logan says "Like an ovum. The Duke is like Roman's twin."

A simile is a figure of speech that directly compares two things. Logan has proven in other episodes that he is very literal and very, very careful with his speech, so he is using a simile on purpose. He is not saying that the Duke ~is~ Roman's twin, he is saying that the Duke is ~like~ Roman's twin, drawing a comparison so that Thomas can better understand Remus’s role in Thomas’s psyche. This comparison has nothing to do with how Roman and Remus ~feel~ about each other, it is strictly an example of Remus’s role in Thomas’s brain and the portion of his negative Creativity that Remus embodies, as a comparison to Roman’s role and control of Thomas’s positive Creativity.

As Logan says this, he hold up two fingers together before splitting them while talking about why Remus exists - this indicates that Roman and Remus were once one whole side. Much like Thomas’s “whole” personality “split” into the personifications of Creativity, Morality, and Logic, Creativity “split” again to form Roman and Remus. Therefore, Remus and Roman are no more “genetically” related to each other than any of the other sides.

It’s worth noting, also, that the specific details around the split are still unclear. A majority of the fandom has accepted the headcanon that Creativity, prior to the split, was a Personification of unknown name and personality that was equally split into what we now know as Roman and Remus. But it is possible that Roman himself was the Original Creativity with Complete Control, until the negative attributes were removed from him and created into a separate being, like Eve was created from Adam’s rib.

Conclusion: “The Duke is like Roman's twin" is a simile used to explain what Remus’s job is in comparison to Roman’s job. It is not a description of how Roman and Remus feel about each other, and it is not proof that they are siblings.

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Timestamp: 15:01 Remus: “You made me this way Thomas. I was the unloved brother from the Genesis. Roman and I are Cain and Abel.”

Logan points out later in the video that Remus intentionally uses Religious Iconography to play to Thomas’s sensitivities. It’s possible Remus is being deliberately misleading as a scare-tactic (he accused Logan of being Deceit when he knew he wasn’t, so he is capable of lying), but for this meta let’s assume he is being genuine in his comparison.

Remus uses a metaphor (not a simile) to compare himself and Roman to Cain and Abel. While some people use this comparison as “proof” that Remus harbors a desire to kill Roman, this is not the point he is trying to make.

Let’s backtrack to the story of Cain and Abel: Cain and Abel are the first two sons born to Adam and Eve. Cain, a farmer, offers God a portion of his crops one day as a sacrifice, only to learn that God is more pleased when Abel, a herdsman, presents God with the fattest portion of his flocks. Enraged, Cain kills his brother. God exiles Cain from his home to wander in the land east of Eden.

Why is Remus using this as a metaphor for how Thomas “made” Remus the way he is? Remus equates Thomas to “God” in the story, because Character!Thomas is the one who “created” his own sides - He is the one responsible for visualizing them as separate beings. Logan points out that Remus and Roman literally wear Black and White because they are Thomas’s sides, and that is how Thomas sees them. Roman and Remus each contribute creative ideas to Thomas (read: “sacrifices” to their “God”), but Thomas is more pleased with Roman’s contributions and shuns/exiles Remus. Remus doesn’t actually say that he wants to kill Roman; however he does heavily imply that it is Thomas’s fault that Remus was created to be inferior, Thomas who chose to favor Roman over Remus, and therefore Thomas’s fault for Remus’s actions and any rage Remus may feel towards Roman.

Conclusion Part One: Remus uses religious imagery on purpose to play to Thomas’s sensitivities. He uses the metaphor of Cain and Abel to point out how he has been mistreated by Thomas, but does not confirm or deny any harsh feelings towards Roman himself.

But while we’re on the topic, let’s look a little more into Religious Canon. Adam was the first human created by God on the planet. God removed a rib from Adam and used it to fashion Eve, to be Adam’s wife. (As I mentioned above, this iconography is a cinematic parallel to Remus’s creation. As Eve used to be a part of Adam, so was Remus a part of Roman before he was removed and reformed into a separate being.) Not only was Eve literally created from a physical part of Adam, she also would then share his genetic code. Even if Adam and Eve didn’t have sibling “feelings” towards each other, an argument can be made that they are still an incest pairing.

Cain, a son of Adam and Eve, marries a woman and produces children to populate the earth. But if Adam and Eve were the only humans on Earth, then Cain’s wife must be a daughter of Adam and Eve, and therefore Cain’s sister. Thus, Cain and his wife are also an incest pairing.

Conclusion Part Two: Adam & Eve, as well as Cain & his wife, are both incest relationships. If a romantic relationship between Roman and Remus is considered incest, it is still no more problematic than the biblical family Remus was comparing himself to.

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Timestamp: 35:52 Thomas: “So, you have a brother?” Roman: “Yeah.”

This is, by far, the most commonly used argument in favor of the headcanon that Roman and Remus are brothers. Most fans hear Roman’s “yeah” as confirmation that he sees Remus as a brother.

However, there is still room for debate. “So, you have a brother?” “…yeaaaaah.” Roman is reluctant. He tilts his head back. He stretches the word out. Maybe he’s not quite sure “brother” is the right term for it, but there’s not really anything else he can call him. There’s no easy word for the other half of what used to be a whole fusion. Remus is like a limb that used to be attached, or a rib that was removed and created into a separate person. Remus is something to him, alright, and Roman feels responsible for Remus in a way that the other sides aren’t because of their shared history. So of course he would default to “brother”, it’s the simplest way to try to grasp a large and complex issue. He then starts comparing Remus to a mirror - “It shows you everything you don’t want to be.” When he looks at Remus, he doesn’t say he sees a sibling or a rival - he says he sees ~himself~, the dark parts of his own mind he doesn’t want to admit to. The dark parts that used to BE part of his own mind before they were separated.

Conclusion: Roman’s “Yeah.” is the closest thing to “proof” of a sibling relationship in the entire episode. But it’s also debatable - Roman seems hesitant/reluctant to confirm that Remus is his brother, and he doesn’t actually use the term himself.

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So, let’s recap. In the Intrusive Thoughts episode, there were the following references to brotherhood:

One (1) occurrence of Roman calling Remus “bro”, which is a generic form of address.

One (1) occurrence of Remus comparing his relationship with Roman to “Cain and Abel”, which is an intentional use of Incestual and Religious Iconography designed to shock and repulse Thomas.

Two (2) occurrences of Someone Else (Logan and Thomas) associating Remus with a familial term (twin/brother).

One (1) occurrence of Roman (reluctantly?) “confirming” Thomas’s “brother” association, but never using the term himself.

Roman never calls Remus his twin, nor uses the word “brother”, and he compares his feelings towards Remus to “looking in a mirror” and seeing not a twin, but himself.

Remus never calls Roman his brother, nor his twin, and he never directly comments on his feelings towards Roman.

This will change as new episodes reveal more about Roman and Remus, but as of “Dealing with Intrusive Thoughts”, all the “proof” in the episode that Roman and Remus are brothers and/or twins is debatable and subject to interpretation.

If you want to believe that they ARE twins/brothers and share a platonic relationship, that’s a valid headcanon, but it is not the only one.

If you want to believe that they ARE twins/brothers and share a romantic relationship, that’s a valid headcanon. There are many reasons to intentionally ship a fictional incest pairing.

If you want to believe that they are NOT twins/brothers and share a platonic relationship, that's a valid headcanon.

If you want to believe that they are NOT twins/brothers and share a romantic relationship, that's a valid headcanon.

#remus sanders #roman sanders #ts remus #ts duke #ts roman #meta #intrusive thoughts #sanders sides #thomas sanders #tw incest #religion #religious iconography #all ships are valid #headcanons #blasphemy #dd is tired #i really talk a lot for someone who hates the sound of their own voice #murder

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dxsole · 5 years

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META #5: Didi & Mental Health

@patiencetaught asked: What does she think about the fact that Jasper went so long without a diagnosis? Is she concerned that she might genetically follow his example? Does she have any diagnosis? Has she ever seen a therapist? What is her opinion on psychiatric drugs?

This is, as lightly touched upon in her earlier meta on life, a very sore subject. Truthfully, Jasper did already have his diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia before Didi was old enough to be aware of such things (his problem was improper treatment, this discontinuation of medication, depression and alcoholism all coming together to incite tragedy). As far as she knew, growing up with the knowledge of her father’s condition, it was to her understanding that as long as Jasper kept up with it properly and under a doctor’s care, he would be fine.

She was never present for the few times in Jasper’s life when he would show usual symptoms, even minor ones as Jasper and Martina thought it best to shield her from such things...which, as you know, wasn’t the case at the very end of the happy family.

At the time she didn’t know much about what schizophrenia does but after the death of her mother and her being shunned and abandoned by Martina’s side of the family due to their fears over her mental health, she researched it heavily. And it frightened her. Not because of the symptoms so much but due to the potential hereditary factor as well as the fact that what happened to Jasper is very rare. While the risk is still very low from father to daughter genetics, it’s still greater than the average person. It is a real fear she has and is one of the reasons she lowered her alcohol intake significantly overall (she can’t stay away completely but she drinks much less and less often than she did when she first got at it) as alcohol was one of the contributing factors in Jasper’s break with reality. And the fact that this break occurred in her father when, due to her looking into the disorder, it’s not a very common occurrence in those who have some form of reliable treatment or therapy, it makes her paint Jasper in a more wicked light (since she, of course, glosses over the fact that Jasper in no way at this time was reliably medicated or treated for his disorder).

Didi does have mild PTSD from the incident of her mother’s death but as she avoids psychiatrists, therapists and such like the plague, she has never been properly diagnosed nor ever will. Upon meeting any type of therapist, she becomes very irate and possibly even combative as she fears them telling her something she doesn’t want to hear or that she’d actually be committed against her will. The symptoms best attributed to her experiences would be lack of communication after future traumatic events (it takes hours or even days before she’ll talk again), flare ups of insomnia and continuous nightmares about initial traumatic event onset, overreacting on issues related to her trauma (questioning her about her own mental health does this specifically), having triggers (she will become incredibly dissociative if she is ever choked/has hands on her neck or smells the same perfume her mother used to wear) and moments of self isolation. While these tend to be notable symptoms that something in general is wrong, she usually pegs it down to just having a bad day,

Didi is, also previously mentioned in the initial meta about her life, very hypocritical and that manifests itself greatly in how she perceives mental health as a whole. When confronted with friends who have mental health issues of any kind, she is rather supportive and encouraging about their treatment =, medication and doesn’t usually see it as a negative character trait. She understands that these are real things that people deal with-- just not her. It doesn’t click that she could have an issue and bringing up this fact confuses and upset her greatly.

A lot of it is just denial and an attempt to appear stronger than she actually is but it also only damages her further.

#traits #didi lives on de nile #meta

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cienie-isengardu · 6 years

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Anakin and Clone Troopers in Legends sources [2002 - 2005], part I

For some time I was thinking about writting more stuff about Anakin and clones and the relationship between them, but kinda lacked energy to do so. But since @nutsgunray mentioned to me about fandom trend to ignore positive relationship between Anakin and clone troopers - especially in favor of Obi-Wan Kenobi - I feel motivated to write my personal opinion (that no one asked for, I know, hush!) on the subject.

Quick disclaim: this is by no means attempt to change anyone mind on the subject, personal opinion is personal and that’s all. This rant is more like my take on why Anakin’s respect and dedication to clones may be overlooked in regards to Legends sources, and in the process, not acknowledged by some people.

Putting aside TCW / new canon that give us a lot examples how Anakin deeply cares for his men (to mention few), I want focus primaly on the oldest sources, from Attack of the Clones to Revenge of the Sith and tie-in books [Jedi Trial, The Cestus Deception, Labyrinth of Evil] and Republic comics series that were published around 2002 - 2005. In first part of my analysis, I’m gonna talk about books presenting Anakin and Obi-Wan working together with clones, for a better comparison.

But firstly, some little background info:

Back in 2002 - 2005, clones usually weren’t the main focus of star wars stories. With exeption of Republic Commando game and book series and few comics issues, clone troopers usually played secondary roles. ARC A-17, better known as Alpha, and commander Cody were the most important exceptions (Bly too, but he isn’t related to this meta right now). Both have connection to Anakin and Obi-Wan, but the relationship with Kenobi is usually more “visible” than their relationship with Skywalker.

I think it comes down to the storyline itself. Cody is Kenobi’s second in command, so it makes sense for him to have closer bond with older Jedi, especially since in 2002-2005 time period, Anakin was pretty much isolated from active military service / hierarchy, quite often by Kenobi himself. For example, during Battle of Jabiim (that happened one year and 2-4 months after Battlle of Geonosis), Anakin asked about his status / rank now that Jedi became the generals of Great Army of Republic. Kenobi’s response?

My padawan. Because of that, Anakin’s contact with clones was limited. He fought alongside them, he led them to attack when Kenobi allowed it (until Skywalker get knighted) and the time between battles and missions, Anakin usually spent with Padme in Jedi Temple, working hard on strategy or sharpening his skills. So, in oldest Legends sources, the narrative made Anakin quite often isolated / cut off from clones. Because of that, there is less “direct evidences” in the text.

Cody, as Kenobi’s second-in-command was one of troopers that Anakin had more personal relationship (due to serving / fighting alongside Kenobi by almost all war). The same is with Alpha, who met both Jedi (and Shaak Ti) during Battle of Kamino and fought with them on various missions after that. Yet since ARC was captured and tortured by Asajj Ventress along with Kenobi, the storyline about their interaction is much more direct since the characters were forced to work together. So even though there is also plenty interesting (and heartwarming) moments between Anakin and Alpha, those are usually less remembered than main plot/events of story.

As readers, we had a chance to see Kenobi talking or thinking about clones and how important their life were through various (earliest) sources. That doesn’t mean Anakin never shared such sentiment, but as far as I can say, narrative-wise, Anakin showed his respect, care and sympathy for clones more by gestures and actions than words, in contrast to Kenobi. What is one of reasons why people may ignore Skywalker’s positive attitude towards clones - those gestures aren’t always presented in straight way or explained (by POV narrative, for example) and it pretty much comes down to perception of individual person. Some things are to be speculated or analyzed and could be read both way, depending how we feel about character.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that Kenobi’s attitude toward clones is just all talk, because he did care and try to protect clones from harm (like during Battle of Jabiim, he went into destroyed walker to evacuate injured / shocked by impact troopers before the vehicle would blown up). What I’m trying to say, the clone relationship with Kenobi is usually framed in more direct way, than with Anakin.

For a better presentation of the problem, let’s look at specific sources:

In 2005 came out Labyrinth of Evil (in which Cody debiuted as named clone according to wookiepedia):

Over the years Obi-Wan had formed battlefield partnerships with several Advanced Recon Commandos - - Alpha, with whom he had been imprisoned on Rattatak, and Jangotat, on Ord Cestus. Early-generation ARCs had received training by the Mandalorian clone template, Jango Fett. While the Kaminoans had managed to breed some of Fett out of the regulars, they had been more selective in the case of the ARCs. As a consequence, ARCs displayed more individual initiative and leadership abilities. In short, they were more like the late bounty hunter himself, which was to say, more human. While Cody wasn't genetically an Advanced Recon Commando, he had ARC training and shared many ARC attributes. In the initial stages of the war, clone troopers were treated no differently from the war machines they piloted or the weapons they fired. To many they had more in common with battle droids poured by the tens of thousands from Baktoid Armor Workshops on a host of Separatist-held worlds.

But attitudes began to shift as more and more troopers died. The clones' unfaltering dedication to the Republic, and to the Jedi, showed them to be true comrades in arms, and deserving of all the respect and compassion they were now afforded. It was the Jedi themselves, in addition to other progressive thinking officials in the Republic, who had urged that second - and third-generation troopers be given names rather than numbers, to foster a growing fellowship.

The narrative is focused at Obi-Wan; text tells us in direct way that Kenobi:

befriended two ARC troopers (Alpha & Jangotat/Nate)

is aware of prejudices toward clones, how they were treated no better than equipment at first

sees the change in how clones are treated now, what is contributed to Jedi and progressive thinking officials in the Republic (and since point 1 & 2 already puts Kenobi in positive light, it’s easy to assume he belongs to the group of “good” Jedi & progressive thinking people)

describes clones in posivite tone (unfaltering dedication for Republic and Jedi, that they deserve all the respect and compassion that was denied to them)

After such description / narrative, next paragraphs focuses at the course of the mission. Kenobi already was presented as someone unbiased against clones, yet when comes to saving them, Anakin is the first to act:

Obi-Wan felt a ripple in the Force an instant before the harvester's right foreleg tripped a land mine. A potent explosion fountained from the rocky ground, blowing away half the creature's foreleg. The commando threw himself to one side, rolling out from under a trio now of pounding legs, only to have to bob and weave as the harvester began to run in frantic circles, seemingly determined to trample the commando underfoot.

A glancing blow from the beetle's left rear leg tipped the commando off his feet. Confused, the harvester lowered its head and butted at the hard white object in its path, again and again, until there wasn't a smooth area left in the commando's armor. The harvester's distress was having an impact on the rest of the beetles, as well. While most were pressed tightly together, others were suddenly scurrying away from the main column, sending the soldier beetles to high alert. Tripping two mines in succession, a second harvester was lifted off the ground by the ensuing explosions. With that, the column dissolved into disorder, with harvesters and soldiers running every which way, and commandos and Jedi alike doing their best to protect themselves.

"Stay close to the ones who are still headed for the nest!" Anakin shouted.

Obi-Wan was doing just that when he noticed that the trampled commando was back on his feet and staggering toward him, tapping the side of his helmet with the palm of his gloved hand, and obviously indifferent to where he placed his booted feet. Barreling straight for the maw of the mound, a harvester bore down on the commando, clamping its pincers around his waist, then lifting him high into the air. Summoning the last of his reserves, the commando twisted his body back and forth, but was unable to break free.

All at once Anakin was out from under his protective harvester. Lightsaber tight in his gloved hand, he bounded across the denuded landscape toward the captive commando, the Force guiding him to safe landings among the mines. The harvesters might have taken him for a demented turfjumper were they not so fixed on safeguarding their loads and reaching the security of the nest. Anakin's final leap dropped him directly in front of the harvester that had seized the commando. With one upward stroke of his lightsaber he rid the beetle of its pincers, freeing the commando, but also sending the soldier beetles into a frenzy.

Obi-Wan could almost smell the pheromone release, and decipher the information being exchanged: The area is rife with predators! From the brood rose a shriek so high-pitched as to be barely audible, and a stampede was under way. Mines began to detonate to all sides, and out from billowing smoke above the orchard canopy swarmed more than a hundred STAPs.

The unluckly commando didn’t get the help immediately because too much things happened at once; the moment one of harvesters walked into mine, chaos erupted - all clone troopers and Jedi were doing their best to protect themselves, which means no one could help him. From the description, the clone get hurt pretty badly.

Anakin gave an order to “stay close to the ones who are still headed for the nest” because it was A) where they must go to finish mission and B) the safest place. (Also: “Obi-Wan was doing just that“ when Skywalker’s orders were given, which means both were thinking about / doing the same thing)

Still Skywalker alone left his safe spot to save the unluckly clone troopers from painful death (I kind of wonder if harvester’s pincers could cut the man in half throughout the armor, but for sure it was hazardous situation that could kill the trooper),

Anakin’s action saved the injured man but also actually pushed soldier beetles into a frenzy. Not good for the mission, which maybe was a reason why no one rushed out to save clone; for clone troopers it was normal that mission comes first, even at the cost of their own life - or life of brothers. Which is pretty the same for a Jedi, the greater good is above one life. Anakin was willing to risk mission to save trooper in need. Then again, the scene is not from Skywalker or clone troopers POV; we don’t know if anyone of them planned to save injured clone after harvesters would calm down, or if soldiers were ready to abandon their brother / comrade. It’s hard to tell for sure.

Supporting the commando trooper with his left arm, Anakin warded off blaster bolts on the run. The rest of Squad Seven supplied cover, blowing STAPs out the sky with uninterrupted fire. Cody motioned everyone into a shallow irrigation trench just short of the mound. By the time Obi-Wan arrived, the troopers were deployed in a circle, and continuing to pour fire into the sky. Anakin slid into the trench a moment later, lowering the commando gently to the muddy slope. Squad Seven's medical specialist crawled over, removing the commando's ravaged utility belt and deeply dented helmet. Obi-Wan gazed at the face of the injured clone.

A face he would never forget; now a face he couldn't forget. All these years later, he could still recall his brief conversation with Jango Fett, on Kamino. He glanced at Cody and the rest. An army of one man... But the right man for the job.

The clones' rallying cry. The injured commando had already prompted his armor to inject him with painkillers, so he remained pliant while his chest plastron was removed and the black bodyglove undergarment knifed open.

The harvester's pincers had crushed the armor into the commando's abdomen. His skin was intact, but the bruising was severe. With only half the original army of 1.2 million in fighting shape, the life of every clone was vital. Blood and replacement organs - - what the regular troopers referred to as "spare parts" - - were readily available - - "easily requisitioned" - - but with the war reaching a crescendo, battlefield casualties were on the rise and treated as high priority.

"Not much I can do for him here," the medspec told Anakin. "Maybe if we can get an FX-Seven air-dropped - - "

"We don't need a droid," Anakin interrupted. Kneeling, he placed his hands on the injured commando's abdomen and used a Jedi healing technique to keep the clone from going into deep shock.

Once again, situation is told from Obi-Wan’s POV. We see Anakin’s action (supporting injured commando, bringing him into safety of secured trench, Force-healing him), but can’t say anything about his own feeling or thought on that matter.

Even though Anakin’s person here is almost “mute” his role is active; he “slid into the trench a moment later, lowering the commando gently to the muddy slope”, stayed with him when squad’s medical specialist stripped the man from armor and investigated the damage and used Force to keep the clone from going into deep shock, when it turned out that medic is powerless to do anything without specialist equipment.

Obi-Wan on other hand is passive. He doesn’t interact here with anyone. From his POV we know that Anakin is busy with injured clone, troopers are busy shoting down enemy, while Kenobi - senior commanding officer - is occupied with A) memories of Jango Fett and B) how “battlefield casualties were on the rise and treated as high priority.” Those two things give an interesting contrast to Anakin. Kenobi can’t look at clones without remembering Jango Fett but similar like Mace Windu and Dooku, he seems to think about dead bounty hunter only through the experience of a short meeting while Anakin wondered about Jango’s human side, and thus how much clones could be similar to him. Then, despite thinking how life of every clone was vital and how battlefield casualties were on the rise and treated as high priority, Kenobi did nothing. He didn’t showed any interest or desire to help. Here, Kenobi’s role is absolutely passive. His POV feed us with vital informations about clone situations in war, but it’s Anakin who in active way keep an injured clone alive.

Soon after that, Jedi and clone troopers were going to face one of the most feared of the Separatists' infantry arsenal: Droidekas.

Known also by the fearsome title destroyer droids, droidekas were rapid-deployment killing machines produced by an alien species that encouraged mayhem at every opportunity. A combination of sheer momentum and sequenced microrepulsors allowed the bronzium-armored droids to roll like balls then unfurl in a blink as tripoded gunfighters, shielded by individual deflectors and armed with paired, twin-barreled, high-output blasters. Since the shields were powerful enough to resist lightsabers, blasters, even light artillery bolts, the proven strategy for dealing with droidekas was simply to run from them. More so, because surrender was never an option.

But Anakin had another idea.

"Comm fire support for an artillery strike," he ordered Cody, loud enough to be heard above STAP and DC-15 fire. "Do it now."

Cody was more than willing to comply. After all, the order had come directly from "the Hero with no Fear," as Anakin was sometimes known. "The Warrior of the Infinite." There was, though, a chain of command to maintain, so Cody looked to Obi-Wan for confirmation.

Obi-Wan nodded. "Do as he says."

The commando called for his comm specialist, who splashed through the shallow water and flattened himself alongside Cody. When the spec had provided needed coordinates, Cody opened a frequency to the fire support base and spoke in a rush.

"To FSB from Squad Seven. We're taking continuous fire from STAPs in sector Jenth-Bacta-Ion, and are about to be buried under destroyer droids deployed from the redoubt. Request immediate artillery support at coordinates accompanying transmission. Recommend tactical electromagnetic pulse airburst, followed by SPHA-T barrage."

"Pulse weapons don't discriminate, Commander," Obi-Wan thought to point out.

Cody shrugged. "It's the only way, sir."

"Tell them we've got a wounded trooper for the Rimsoo," Anakin said. The term stood for "Republic Mobile Surgical Unit."

Cody relayed the message. "Warn the evac pilot that he'll be setting down in a hot area. We'll mark a safe landing zone with smoke, and leave two behind to assist."

Hero without Fear is one of Anakin’s titles. The other, a Warrior of the Infinite is a title given only to 29 people in the 6.000-year history of the Virujansi royal court. Cody for sure has a lot respect for Anakin, if not for a person per se, then for his battle skills / warrior (soldier)’s nature.

"Cody was more than willing to comply”, yet since clones were taught to respect chain of command, he looked to Obi-Wan, the senior commanding officer, for confirmation.

Obi-Wan once again is more active; he points out the side effects of use pulse weapon (what would shut down droids AND clone troopers electrical equipment). Once again, Anakin is the one that keep in mind an injured trooper ("Tell them we've got a wounded trooper for the Rimsoo”).

When Jedi and clone troopers get inside enemy nest/citadel, they separated to do their own parts of mission. Anakin took 4 commandos to capture Viceroy Gunray while Obi-Wan, Cody and rest of team were supposed to cause needed distraction.

During Obi-Wan’s mission:

"How do you want to handle this, sir?"

"You're the master of warcraft, Commander. I'll follow your lead."

Cody nodded, perhaps grinning beneath his helmet. "Well, sir, our mandate is a simple one: Kill as many of the enemy as possible."

Obi-Wan recalled a conversation he had had on Ord Cestus with a clone trooper named Nate, regarding analogies between the Jedi and the clones: the former ushered by midi-chlorians to serve the Force; the latter, grown and programmed to serve the Republic. But the analogies ended there, because the troopers never paused to consider possible repercussions of their actions. Tasked, they executed their orders to the best of their abilities, whereas lately, even the most forceful Jedi knew moments of doubt.

Obi-Wan mentions clone trooper Nate (later, renamed as Jangotat, but apparently, Obi-Wan stucks for the clone’s first nickname rather using a name given to him by friend/lover. That, or it’s just oversight in editing the book). He is respectful toward Cody, and allows clone commander to lead the action, recognizing that Cody has more war experiences than him.

Despite that, there is still Jedi-arrogance / snobbery. The service of Jedi and clone troopers is similar; both path are decided by someone’s else, either Force or those who bought the clone army for their own use. Still, clone troopers “never paused to consider possible repercussions of their actions” while Jedi “knew moments of doubt”. Which for me comes down to this: clones do not think much about their action, they do not worry about morality (not completely true) while Jedi are much more aware, even doubtful (and still most of them do nothing much about their doubts)

"Looks like they've taken the bait, General!" Cody said while he, Obi-Wan, and two commandos fought their way into a side room. "Another successful action! Now we just have to survive it!" Cody pointed to the entrance to a second room, opposite their present position. "Through there," he said. "A second bank of turbolifts on the far side."

He tapped Obi-Wan on the shoulder. "You first. We'll provide cover. Go!" Obi-Wan shot for the room, deflecting bolts and mangling two super battle droids that stood in his way.

Cody takes care of Obi-Wan; he sends him first while he and other clones are going provide needed cover.

Unfortunately, Kenobi get separated from his team and needed to fight on his own in unfavorable conditions; the air wasn’t the best for human beings but he lost his breathmask during entering the nest.

For the first time (chapter 4), Anakin’s POV is presented. Thought a bit part of it is focused at Anakin’s anger for what happened in the last years (from Invasion of Naboo, to Geonosis and beyond) and how Senate is corrupted (what hinders ending the war), so there is little focus at clone troopers. In a way, Anakin’s POV is much more focused at the task to do & on what's going on around, than Obi-Wan’s which more often than not was about general situation of war. Still, we may see how Anakin is working with clone troopers.

Upward: until they reached the citadel's semicircular projection of launching bays, which overlooked the surrounding lake and a ridge of forested mountains. Anakin brought his team to a halt. One of the commandos held up his hand, palm outward, then tapped the side of his helmet to indicate an incoming transmission. The commando listened, then spoke to Anakin with hand signals. Gunray's party is nearby.

"They're testing escape vectors for the shuttle by lowering the defensive shield and launching decoys," the commando said quietly. "Turbolaser fire has allowed several of the decoys to get past our blockade and reach orbiting core ships."

The muscles in Anakin's jaw bunched. "Then we have to act quickly."

No one contested when Anakin held point position. The commandos accepted without question that body armor and imaging systems were primitive compared to the power of the Force. They moved vigilantly through a maze of elegant corridors, abandoned in a rush, strewn with belongings dropped during flight. Approaching an intersection, Anakin made a halting gesture with his left hand. He listened for a moment; heard from around the corner the telltale heavy footfalls of super battle droids. The commando to Anakin's left nodded in confirmation, then extended a finger-thin holocam around the corner and activated his gauntlet holoprojector. Noisy images of Nute Gunray and his entourage of elite officers formed in midair. Hurrying down the corridor, tall headpieces bobbing, rich robes aswirl, safeguarded front and rear by burly battle droids.

Anakin motioned for silence, and was just about to step into the intersecting corridor when a banged-up silver protocol droid appeared from across the hall, raising its hands in delighted surprise. "Welcome, sirs!" it said loudly. "I can't tell you how good it is to find guests in the palace! I am TeeCee-Sixteen and I am at your service. Nearly everyone has left - - because of the invasion, of course - - but I'm sure that we can make you comfortable, and that Viceroy Gunray will be most pleased - - "

One hand clamped over TC-16's small rectangle of vocabulator, a commando yanked the droid to one side, but it was too late. Anakin leapt around the corner in time to see the Neimoidians set off at a run, red-eyed, flat-nosed Gunray casting a nervous glance over his shoulder. As for the super battle droids, they had about-faced and were marching stiff-legged in Anakin's direction. Catching sight of him, their right arms elevated, twisted downward, locked into firing position. And the corridor began to fill with blaster bolts.

Anakin has experience in working with clone troopers, including the more independent commandos. He learned and is using their “hand signal” language.

No commandos protested when Anakin took “point position“, all believed that Force is a great ally for Jedi. Still, before Skywalker threw himself into action, he did confirm with his trooper that in fact Nute Gunray is coming with droid bodyguards. Which in itself seems contrary to the usual image of hot-headed Anakin who get into fight blindly.

The mission was unexpectedly interrupted by protocol droid, TC-16 and in result, alarmed the enemy who run away.

"Sirs, this a terrible mistake!" TC-16 inserted into a brief pause in the firefight.

"Keep him quiet," Anakin snapped at the commando closest to the droid.

"But, sirs - - " A second commando glanced at Anakin and motioned down the corridor behind them. "Six infantry droids advancing. We're going to be caught in a crossfire."

Anakin gave his head a quick shake. "Wrong. Follow me - - and bring the droid."

A muffled sound of dismay escaped TC-16's vocabulator. Fury clouded Anakin's eyes. Lightsaber held high in his crooked right arm, he whirled into the intersecting corridor. No need to use the Force, as many Jedi said, for he was never anywhere but fully in the Force. He called instead on his anger, bringing images to mind to fuel his rage. It wasn't difficult, with so many to choose from: images of a Tusken Raider camp on Tatooine, Yavin 4, the defeat at Jabiim, Praesitlyn... Blue blade flashing, he cut a swath through the super battle droids, opening their burnished carapaces with diagonal slashes, cutting off blaster arms, hobbling the droids by deflecting bolts into their hermetically sealed knees. Scarcely letting a shot get past him, so that the commandos following in his wake could concentrate their fire on the ones Anakin only wounded.

Nute Gunray’s escape didn’t help to calm already angry Skywalker; he even snapped at commando to keep the droid quiet. Anakin really hoped that capturing Gunray will bring the war closer to the end. Through the battle (and in general, the whole war) Skywalker was using memories of traumatic events and past failures - including brutal campaigns in which he fought arm-to-arm with clone troopers - to fuel his rage, to rely on its strength. Not really a healthly way to cope with what’s going around him.

Anakin, like always, is first to fight while clones follow him (I’m the only one who sees contrast between Cody’s “ You first. We'll provide cover. Go!“ to Obi-Wan...?)

Anakin may be in warrior rage here, but still his fighting style is all about destroying droids while Scarcely letting a shot get past him, so that the commandos following in his wake could concentrate their fire on the ones Anakin only wounded. Which means, Anakin is keeping enemy’s focus at himself, while commando are fighting from relative safety and shot to finish already wounded machines.

Their enemies fell aside, almost as if surrendering. Focused on the route Gunray and his lackeys had taken, Anakin raced through corridors, rounding corners without slowing down, sprinting for the launching bay at the far end of the final corridor. Confronted with an iris-hatch blast door, he thrust his glowing blade into the metal as if it were living flesh. Lips drawn back over his teeth, he tried to force the lightsaber to burn a fast circle in the door. He brought his will to bear on the task, but the lightsaber could accomplish only so much, even in the hands of a powerful Jedi. Withdrawing the blade, he stepped back from the door and moved his hands through a Force pass, willing the iris portal to open. The door shuddered but remained sealed. Screaming through gnashed teeth, he tried again. When the commandos finally caught up with him, he spun to them.

"Blow the door!" A commando hurried forward to place magnetic charges against the alloy. Anakin paced behind him, waiting. Another commando had to tug him to a safe distance. The charges blew, and the portal yielded. Anakin charged through the irising seal even before it had opened fully. The launching bay was littered with containers, articles of clothing, objects the Neimoidians hadn't had time or space to take with them. The shuttle was gone. Wisps of vapor swirled about, and the air smelled faintly of fuel. Anakin ran to the platform's forward-curving edge, eyes scanning Cato Neimoidia's light-riddled night sky for some sign of the fleeing ship. The palace's defensive shield had been deactivated. Thick packets of crimson light lanced from laser cannon batteries on the slopes below.

The previous scene with fight and now, when Anakin wanted to “open” blast doors with lightsaber are the moments I think we all can agree how hot-headed he was. Thrown himself into action and try to do everything on your own, that’s the usual image of Anakin. He didn’t wait for clones, he run away after Gunray to catch him as fast as possible. The failure gets the worst out of him.

Anakin paced behind working clone and another commando had to tug him into safety. Anger, anxiety or annoyance (or mix of all) makes Anakin reckless. Good that commandos kept their commander’s safety in mind.

They were too late to catch Gunray.

Anakin's teammates joined him at the brink, one with a hand vised on TC-16's upper left arm.

"What type of ship is it?" Anakin demanded of the droid.

TC-16 tipped his head to one side. "Ship, sir?"

"The shuttle - - Gunray's shuttle. What model?"

"Why, I believe it was a Sheathipede-class, sir."

"Haor Chall Engineering Sheathipede-class transport shuttle," one of the commandos explained. "Design is based on the soldier beetles. Upraised stern, bow ramp, clawfoot landing gear. Gunray's named it the Lapiz Cutter."

A second commando spoke up, signaling that he was receiving commo. "General. From Commander Dodonna's flagship: more than sixty shuttles and landing craft launched from the redoubt. Thirteen destroyed, eighteen seized. An unknown quantity have managed to dock aboard Trade Federation core ships and open-ring Lucrehulk carriers. Additional shuttles are still in the envelope."

Anakin turned through a circle, gloved hand gripped on the lightsaber pommel, the other balled into a fist. A conduit nearby took the brunt of his anger. Cleaved by the blade, it fell in pieces to the landing platform's seamless floor. Anakin began to pace again, then stopped, yanking a commando around by his shoulder. "Comm forward command. I want my ship and astromech droid flown here immediately. One of the ARC-one-seventy pilots can fly it."

The commando nodded, relayed the message, then said: "FCC will comply, sir. You'll have your starfighter soonest."

Anakin returned to the lip of the platform, blowing his breath into the night. The battle appeared to be winding down, except within him. Not until he had Gunray in his grip...

Mission failed, what for sure didn’t calm down Anakin. He even allowed himself to vent his anger at the nearby conduit. I keep mentioning Skywalker’s anger because LotE takes place in third year of Clone Wars and Anakin was really affected by war. Still, he is mainly angry at himself, because capturing Gunray was both important mission and very personal thing. He didn’t blame his troopers (and later will even show some sympathy for the droid that accidentally thwarted the mission).

Still, he was ready to continue alone the pursuit after Gunray, that’s why he ordered to comm forward command to sent his personal ship & astromech droid. For all potential pilots to fly his modified (precious!) ship, Anakin chose a clone, one of ARC-one-seventy pilots.

There is little to none Anakin’s thoughts on clone troopers (none of them is even named by narrative!) or clone situation and Skywalker’s not-so-calm-mood is hard to miss.

"General Skywalker," a commando said from behind him. "Urgent from Commander Cody. He and General Kenobi are pinned down on level one."

Anakin shot him a questioning look. "By droids?"

"A lot of them, apparently."

Anakin glanced into the glowing sky, then back at the commando who had delivered Cody's message. "General, forward command reports that your starfighter is on the way," another commando updated. Again, Anakin glanced at the sky, only to turn back to the commando. "Where did you say Obi-Wan and Cody are?"

"Level one, sir. In the shipping area."

Anakin compressed his lips. "All right. Let's go rescue them."

Anakin was faced with a choice: to contuine the mission as he wanted or give up the pursuit to help the rest ot team in need. Despite his angry mood and how personal was mission for him, Skywalker chose well-being of Obi-Wan and clones.

Anakin does not use Cody’s commander rank at all. He refers clone officer first and foremost as Cody.

Alerted by the commandos that the air was saturated with spores, Anakin had his rebreather in his mouth as he approached the room in which Obi-Wan had held his own against better than fifty droids, all of which lay scattered about the room. A weaving, shuffling, staggering Obi-Wan was dealing with the last of them when Anakin entered. When the final droid collapsed, Obi-Wan aimed the blade of his lightsaber casually toward the floor and stood swaying in place, breathing hard but almost grinning.

"Anakin," he said happily. "How are you?" When Anakin went to him, Obi-Wan promptly collapsed in his arms. Anakin deactivated Obi-Wan's blade and inserted a rebreather into his mouth - - the same one that had ended up on the floor of the grotto. Then he carried him from the room to where Cody and several commandos were waiting, some with their helmets removed.

"Exactly what lightsaber form were you using back there, Master?" Anakin asked when Obi-Wan had come around and the rebreathers were no longer necessary.

"Form?"

"More the absence of it." Anakin laughed shortly. "If only Mace, Kit, or Shaak Ti could have seen you."

Obi-Wan blinked in confusion and glanced around at the carnage of droids in the shipping area. "We did this?" he said to Cody.

"You did most of it, General."

Obi-Wan regarded Anakin in confusion.

"I'll explain later," Anakin said.

Obi-Wan ran his hand through his hair, then, as if just remembering, said: "Gunray! Did you get him?"

Anakin's shoulders dropped. "The entire entourage escaped the palace."

Obi-Wan mulled it over for a moment. "You could have gone after them."

Anakin shrugged. "And leave you?" He paused, then added: "Of course, if I'd known you'd become master of a new lightsaber form..."

Obi-Wan's eyes brightened. "They'll be taken in orbit."

"Maybe."

"If not, there'll be other times, Anakin. We'll see to it."

Anakin nodded. "I know that, Master."

Obi-Wan was about to add something when a helmeted commando stepped from a nearby turbolift and hurried over to them. "General Kenobi, General Skywalker, we've found something of interest among the equipment the Neimoidians left behind."

Turned out that Obi-Wan, despite all the intoxicant stuff in the air, survived on his own. He even told Anakin he could have gone after enemy, which seems like thing Obi-Wan would do / wish Anakin did.

Cody calls Kenobi by title (general) while Anakin’s POV keeps describing the clone commander simply as Cody (I’m gonna talk about that detail a bit later, just keep that in mind, please).

Despite the whole situation, Anakin is making jokes at Kenobi's expense. I think it’s interesting that he doesn’t mind company of clones to witness that. After all, both are generals in GAR, and not every officer would do such thing. I think Anakin feels enough “safe” in company of clones to allow himself such humorous moment.

For me, in LotE, Anakin’s interaction with clone commandos is much different than scenes with Obi-Wan & Cody. Partially, I think comes down to this: for Skywalker, capturing Gunray is personal matter. He believes that capturing viceroy will help to end the war, something that he so badly wants to happen. There is a lot anger in Anakin; a rage he uses as fuel to keep going no matter what. At times it makes him sound and act harsh. Still, Anakin adapted to working with clone commandos. He is used to hand gestures, to military procedures. He is always first to lead and attack, to eliminate as much of enemies he can, taking the most dangerous part on himself, acting like shield between danger and clone troopers.

And the same time, he is willing to give up on mission (capturing the enemy), when commando reported that Obi-Wan’s team is in danger. What is important to note, Anakin is concerned not only about his former master: "Where did you say Obi-Wan and Cody are?", Let's go rescue them."

In the book, Obi-Wan’s POV provides some insight about prejudice toward clones and which still ongoing war, how important is their life yet the narrative makes him quite passive when it comes to saving troopers. Kenobi did take part in fight(s) and destroyed enemy droids, sure, but he didn’t face a choice to contuine mission or come back to save the team, nor did anything significant for injured trooper. In contrast, Anakin’s POV is pretty much related to anger he rely on during mission/war and makes him sometimes reckless and even harsh for commandos, yet he is willing to risk / cease the mission to save his mentor AND troopers, he is adapted to military operations and is considered by clones / Cody as great warrior.

Later, the story doesn’t focus anymore at clones. Obi-Wan and Anakin are sent on solo mission that leads into Revenge of the Sith events. So, let’s talk about RotS novel (2005)!

Once again, clone troopers aren’t main characters and frankly, their presence is the most visible during three moments: Battle of Coruscant, Battle of Utapau and when executing Order 66.

The Battle of Coruscant is mainly see from Anakin & Obi-Wan’s POVs; since they took part in space battle with a delay, thus their interaction with clones were minimal.

"Have your droid tight-beam a report to the Temple. And send out a call for any Jedi in starfighters. We'll come at it from all sides."

"Way ahead of you." But when he checked his comm readout, he shook his head. "There's still too much ECM. Artoo can't raise the Temple. I think the only reason we can even talk to each other is that we're practically side by side."

"And Jedi beacons?"

"No joy, Master." Anakin's stomach clenched, but he fought the tension out of his voice. "We may be the only two Jedi out here."

"Then we will have to be enough. Switching to clone fighter channel."

Anakin spun his comm dial to the new frequency in time to hear Obi-Wan say, "Oddball, do you copy? We need help."

The clone captain's helmet speaker flattened the humanity out of his voice. "Copy, Red Leader."

"Mark my position and form your squad behind me. We're going in."

“On our way."

The droid fighters had lost themselves against the background of the battle, but R2-D2 was tracking them on scan. Anakin shifted his grip on his starfighter's control yoke. "Ten vultures inbound, high and left to my orientation. More on the way."

"I have them. Anakin, wait-the cruiser's bay shields have dropped! I'm reading four, no, six ships incoming." Obi-Wan's voice rose. "Tri-fighters! Coming in fast!"

Anakin's smile tightened. This was about to get interesting.

"Tri-fighters first, Master. The vultures can wait."

"Agreed. Slip back and right, swing behind me. We'll take them on the slant."

Let Obi-Wan go first? With a blown left control surface and a half-crippled R-unit? With Palpatine's life at stake?

Not likely.

"Negative," Anakin said. "I'm going head-to-head. See you on the far side."

"Take it easy. Wait for Oddball and Squad Seven. Anakin-"

He could hear the frustration in Obi-Wan's voice as he kicked his starfighter's sublights and surged past; his former Master still hadn't gotten used to not being able to order Anakin around.

Not that Anakin had ever been much for following orders. Obi-Wan's, or anyone else's.

"Sorry we're late." The digitized voice of the clone whose call sign was Oddball sounded as calm as if he were ordering dinner. "We're on your right, Red Leader. Where's Red Five?"

"Anakin, form up!"

But Anakin was already streaking to meet the Trade Federation fighters. "Incoming!"

Anakin and Obi-Wan joined the battle with delay, so it makes sense they didn’t work with clone pilots from the beginning. They contacted the OddBall’s squad when A) they found out on which ship the kidnapped Chancellor was held by Grevious and B) it seemed they are the only Jedi close enough to save Palpatine and thus needed the support of clone pilots to get to the enemy ship.

Obi-Wan, probably due to seniority, was marked as Red Ledear while Anakin was supposed to act as his wingman / subordinate.

Once again, Skywalker is charging into battle on his own, without waiting for Oddball’s squad to support him. This is not recklessness in itself; this is Anakin's way to protect his former master, since Obi-Wan’s ship is already pretty damaged (not to mention Palpatine’s life was at stake, and two Jedi have better chance to save Chancellor than one).

As they left the cruiser behind, their sensors showed Squad Seven dead ahead. The clone pilots were fully engaged, looping through a dogfight so tight that their ion trails looked like a glowing ball of string.

"Oddball's in trouble. I'm going to help him out."

"Don't. He's doing his job. We need to do ours."

"Master, they're getting eaten alive over-"

"Every one of them would gladly trade his life for Palpatine's. Will you trade Palpatine's life for theirs?"

"No-no, of course not, but-"

"Anakin, I understand: you want to save everyone. You always do. But you can't.''

Anakin's voice went tight. "Don't remind me."

"Head for the command ship." Without waiting for a reply, Obi-Wan targeted the command cruiser and shot away at maximum thrust.

The cross of burn-scar beside Anakin's eye went pale as he turned his starfighter in pursuit. Obi-Wan was right. He almost always was.

You can't save everyone.

Saving Chancellor was important, because Palpatine was a symbol for Republic. His death or captivity would be a blow to morale of citizens and soldiers. But for Anakin it was really personal matter. Through Skywalker’s POV, we know how much Palpatine means to him - he is a friend, a family that showed him support and kindness and accepted him as he was. Something that Jedi Council never did. Despite that, Anakin wanted to help Oddball who was in trouble. And Skywalker would - again! - jeopardize the success of the mission for clone troopers, if not for Obi-Wan.

Kenobi tried to persuade Anakin using the “duty” argument - it’s clone troopers job to keep enemy busy, so the Jedi [he and Skywalker] could carry on rescue mission. Still, Anakin argue to save clone troopers who were “getting eaten alive“.

And because the first attempt failed, Kenobi - like always(!) - went with emotional manipulation: Every one of [clones] would gladly trade his life for Palpatine's. Will you trade Palpatine's life for theirs? It’s harsh and unfair, and in general so fucked up way to keep Anakin in check. The first sentence I can understand - this is battle and clone troopers are soldiers ready to sacrifice their life for Republic (even though they never had a real choice in that matter; either they grew up loyal to Republic or not grew up at all). Clones know the risk and are willing to die for Republic (Chancellor)’s safety. What is similar to Jedi’s idea of selfless duty; greater good above everything else, even at your own - or someone’s close to you - expense. At the same time, if Jedi didn’t save Chancellor, it would meant that clones sacrifice was in vain. Kenobi, as the senior office reminds Anakin of the soldier's/Jedi duty during a battle fever, and that alone is fine.

But of course, since "duty” alone never woks with Anakin, Kenobi had to add the awful line: Will you trade Palpatine's life for theirs? You know how attachments are wrong and bad for Jedi, right? But apparently as long as it can be used to force Anakin into following orders, it’s okay to have them. Because thanks to them, Obi-Wan can taunt Skywalker. Will you trade Palpatine’s life for clones? A life of closest friend, the family you so badly wanted? Will you betray Palpatine’s trust, hopes for rescue just for a clone(s)? Even if Obi-Wan’s line didn’t mean it that way, I hate when he uses Skywalker’s attachment (and good nature) against him like that.

Despite tha Anakin still wanted to argue to save Oddball: “N-no, of course not, but-”

Also: I’m not blaming Anakin for admitting that he wouldn’t trade Palpatine’s life for someone else (who isn’t Padme). I mean, who wouldn’t want to save their family/close friend or would dare to risk their life for less familiar people, who also happens to be soldiers and thus are trained to fight for survival? I know I don’t have an idea what I would do in similar situation.

Anakin wanted to save everyone and being reminded he can’t hurt as hell. I understand why Obi-Wan so badly wanted Anakin to focus at mission and why it’s foolish for Anakin to think he must save everyone around him, but for Force’s sake, isn’t that emotional abuse? Way to go, Kenobi, way to go...

In the end, to force Anakin to do as he is told, without waiting for a reply, Obi-Wan targeted the command cruiser and shot away at maximum thrust.

I would be much more irritated by Obi-Wan’s remark and behaviour, but after all he is Jedi first and foremost. Jedi Order’s focus never was about the good of people, only about the good of institution (Order itself and Republic) or abstract concept (greater good, Force’s Will). And frankly, when Obi-Wan ship get hit/damaged, he told Anakin “Get out of here, Anakin. There's nothing you can do."[...]"Anakin, the mission! Get to the command ship! Get the Chancellor!." Of course, Anakin didn’t leave his mentor - he saved Kenobi and get them both on enemy ship.

"I know: the Sith." The word left a bitter taste in Anakin's mouth. The Council's manipulation had a rank stench of politics on it. "I just-" Anakin shrugged helplessly, looking away. "I don't like you going off without me like this. It's a bad idea to split up the team. I mean, look what happened last time."

"Don't remind me."

"You want to go spend another few months with somebody like Ventress? Or worse?"

"Anakin." Anakin could hear a gentle smile in Obi-Wan's voice. "Don't worry. I have enough clones to take three systems the size of Utapau's. I believe I should be able to handle the situation, even without your help."

Anakin’s situation after Battle of Coruscant was like being stuck between a rock and a hard place. The conflict between Jedi Council and Palpatine along with dreams/Force visions about Padme’s death were things that slowly yet inevitably lead Skywalker to breaking point. It makes sense why his POV is rarely focused on clone troopers then, especially since he was not allowed to actively serve on the front line. In RotS, once again Anakin is isolated from military / clones (in regards to TCW/new canon, being cut away from 501st Legion for sure must hurt).

When Anakin was watching clone troopers (and soon, Obi-Wan) leaving for Utapau, he wished he either could go with them or Kenobi stayed on Coruscant, to lessen the burden of conflicting duties. Overall, there is little about his relationship with clone troopers. What I guess, makes sense story-wise.

On other hand, I’m always bothered when Kenobi says things like “ I have enough clones to take three systems the size of Utapau's”. It’s really that hard to call them men or just troopers?

During Battle of Utapau:

He was going in alone; Commander Cody and three batallions of troopers waited in rapid-deployment vehicles-LAAT/i's and Jadthu-class landers-just over the horizon. Obi-Wan's plan was to pinpoint Grievous's location, then keep the bio-droid general busy until the clones could attack; he would be a one-man diversionary force, holding the attention of what was sure to be thousands or tens of thousands of combat droids directed inward toward him and Grievous, to cover the approach of the clones. Two battalions would strike full-force, with the third in reserve, both to provide reinforcements and to cover possible escape routes.

"I can keep them distracted for quite some time," Obi-Wan had told Cody on the flight deck of Vigilance. "Just don't take too long."

"Come on, boss," Cody had said, smiling out of Jango Fett's face, "have I ever let you down?"

"Well-" Obi-Wan had said with a slim answering smile, "Cato Neimoidia, for starters ..."

"That was Anakin's fault; he was the one who was late ..."

"Oh? And who will you blame it on this time?" Obi-Wan had chuckled as he climbed into his starfighter's cockpit and strapped himself in. "Very well, then. I'll try not to destroy all the droids before you get there."

"I'm counting on you, boss. Don't let me down."

"Have I ever?"

"Well," Cody had said with a broad grin, "there was Cato Neimoidia . . ."

So, remember when I say to keep in mind how in previous book Anakin is usually refering/speaking to commander Cody using just his name? Apparently, Cody does something similar. He calls Kenobi the “general” and “sir” and even friendly calls his superior officer the “boss”, but he seems (at least for me) to be on first name terms with Anakin. I guess, Cody may be too professional to be on first name terms with Obi-Wan since the elder Jedi is his direct superior (and clones do respect chain of command, after all) but to be fair, Anakin is general too at this point. Still, both men have friendly relationship (and Kenobi’s narrative drops the rank in description more often than not, unless there is an official stuff/procedures going on, that’s it)

Also, Cody for sure feels comfortable with Kenobi (and Anakin) to jokes before mission like “blaming” Kenobi’s former padawan / friend for Cato Neimoidia or “pointing out Kenobi’s failure”.

Once again, narrative goes with “Jango Fett’s face”. Hard to miss the similarity of appearance between Fett and his clones, thanks Kenobi

Cody looked up at the dragonmount, and at its rider. "General Kenobi," he said. "Glad you could join us."

"Commander Cody," the Jedi Master said with a nod. He was still scanning the battle around them. "Did you contact Coruscant with the news of the general's death?"

The clone commander snapped to attention and delivered a crisp salute. "As ordered, sir. Erm, sir?" Kenobi looked down at him. "Are you all right, sir? You're a bit of a mess." The Jedi Master wiped away some of the dust and gore that smeared his face with the sleeve of his robe-which was charred, and only left a blacker smear across his cheek. "Ah. Well, yes. It has been a ... stressful day." He waved out at Pau City. "But we still have a battle to win."

"Then I suppose you'll be wanting this," Cody said, holding up the lightsaber his men had recovered from a traffic tunnel. "I believe you dropped it, sir."

"Ah. Ah, yes."

The weapon floated gently up to Kenobi's hand, and when he smiled down at the clone commander again, Cody could swear the Jedi Master was blushing, just a bit. "No, ah, need to mention this to, erm, Anakin, is there, Cody?" Cody grinned. "Is that an order, sir?"

Kenobi shook his head, chuckling tiredly. "Let's go. You'll have noticed I did manage to leave a few droids for you ..."

"Yes, sir." A silent buzzing vibration came from a compartment concealed within his armor. Cody frowned. "Go on ahead, General. We'll be right behind you."

Cody and Kenobi act friendly toward each other, but both stick more to proper military procedures, like using ranks, saluting ("clone commander snapped to attention and delivered a crisp salute”).

Cody once again makes sure Kenobi is alright. Also, gives back Obi-Wan’s lost lightsaber. Kenobi’s awkwardness is beautiful call back to the all times he criticized Anakin for losing the Jedi weapon. The “ah, need to mention this to, erm, Anakin, is there, Cody?" gives me feeling that A) Cody is perfectly aware why Kenobi doesn’t want Anakin to know about lost lightsaber B) Cody was going to tell Anakin about that before Kenobi told (ask) him not to (”is that an order, sir?”) and who knows, C) Skywalker and commander Cody may talk to each other at ease between missions.

And here comes Order 66.

Legends material do not have any stupid “chips in brain” excuses, for that alone I’m very glad. Cody, like almost all clones, followed the order 66 and that ends for good already established positive relationship between clones and Jedi. Obi-Wan didn’t have luxury of time (and peace) to dwell much about clone troopers “betrayal”, Anakin fell to Dark Side, the Sith took control of Republic and transformed it into Empire. Narrative for sure had a lot things to focus on, but clones one again weren’t part of main interest.

I went with those two books, to show how narrative differed in showing Anakin’s and Obi-Wan’s relationship with clones. Kenobi is usually presented as the aware one about racism & prejudice toward clones and I dare to say, has positive & friendly contact with his troopers (especially Cody in that case). It’s his POV that gave us, the readers, background details about clone troopers and acknowledge their battle skills and dedication to Republic and Jedi. At the same time, I always feel like his character is pretty passive when it comes to saving clones - beyond the common kindness and civilized conversation, Obi-Wan can be apathic, or worse: ready to sacrifice people (including himself) for greater good. And here I want to say this: Obi-Wan is not a bad person nor a villian. First and foremost KENOBI IS A JEDI. His arrogance and lack of empathy and mindset & values comes from Jedi Order. Thanks the Force for how he changed because of Anakin for better, because TPM!Kenobi would probably see clones more like “pathetic (yet useful) forms of life” than the brave man who deserves all respect and care that was denied to them once.

Obi-Wan’s POV gives us understanding of world around heroes, while Anakin’s POV is focused usually on Skywalker himself and his (angry) state of mind and how he rely on rage and traumatic memories to keep going. In the last phase of the war, during mission(s) he rarely jokes with anyone than Kenobi and usually is first to jump alone into fight. Anakin’s burning desire to save everyone is a source of his determination/strenght but also for emotional and moral conflicts (duty vs loyalty).

At the same time, books narrative in direct way tell us that Kenobi befriended clones (Alpha and Nate/Jangotat) while Anakin’s relationship with clones is less definied. For sure there is something positive, but it seems like a lot important things that happened between clones and Skywalker takes place “outside the frame” and we may only wonder how they really feel about each other, beside the general respect and teamwork. Still, in both books, Anakin either saved injured trooper or wanted / argued to help clones in need, while the same stories made Kenobi the passive character or even willing to sacrifice clones for greater good.

I personally feel that Anakin and clone troopers had good dynamic and positive relationship, but that does not means Kenobi's relationship with clones didn’t matter or was outright abusive. And vice-versa. Both men care for clones in their own ways. I dare to say, the real difference is that, Kenobi first and foremost is Jedi (and thus his relationship are definied by Jedi Code & Council’s politics) while Skywalker takes everything more personally. Like Kenobi once said: “For Anakin, there is nothing more important than friendship. He is the most loyal man I have ever met-loyal beyond reason, in fact. Despite all I have tried to teach him about the sacrifices that are the heart of being a Jedi he-he will never, I think, truly understand.” What also includes clone troopers, as far as I’m concerned.

Since I talked about two stories set in the last phase of the Clone Wars - a war that affected both Anakin and Obi-Wan, the next part(s) of analysis will be focused on the beginnings of Anakin & clones interaction and how their relation developed with time.

#star wars #anakin skywalker #obi wan kenobi #clone troopers #anakin and clones #star wars legends #my analysis #my rants #i really believe that anakin and clones befriended each other really quickly #i dare to say they were true comrades in arm #i don't have anything against obi wan per se #but he can be a total asshole and snob at times #but i always blame jedi order (yoda's teaching) for that #also i'm so sorry it takes so long to write the first part #i know i said i started write this like 3 or 4 weeks ago #work keep me busy & tired #but also mortal kombat phase caught me without any warning #sorry for a long text

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